Comments on: A Turning Point For Turkey

By: mariana

mariana — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:13:09 +0000

As always, Mr. Rubin’s insight is very useful.
While one would not expect the emerging “middle class” to support Islamist extremists, is interesting that the “Tigers” have played a significant role in bringing the AKP to power.

Likewise, in Iran, the “Bazari’s”
were quietly and profusely funding Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeinni, substantially in 1977-79. Amazing that those one would expect to have least to gain from a religiously intolerant environment, seem among the first to bring it about. mariana

By: Anonymous Coward

Anonymous Coward — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:16:34 +0000

I’m posting from a coffee shop in the Esenboga airport in Ankara while waiting for a flight back to the states. And I have to say that you left out what seems to be on the minds of absolutely everyone I’ve talked to in the last couple of weeks: the (Kurdish) PKK. From the people I’ve talked to and the newspapers I’ve read, the top issue doesn’t seem to be the rise of the Islamic-rooted AKP, but rather who is going to do what with respect to the ongoing PKK terrorism campaign. And here’s where it gets tough to figure out who to root for. The ruling AKP seems very cautious when it comes to invading northern Iraq. And this is obviously good from the standpoint of the U.S., as Kurdish northern Iraq is the best thing going in Iraq and the U.S. needs the support of the Kurds to have any hope of succeeding in Iraq. But the opposition parties all believe that the AKP has been far too easy on the PKK and believe the best way to end the terror campaign in Turkey is to invade Iraq and root out the PKK’s supporters. Which is worse, the contuing rise of religious influence in Turkish politics ala the AKP or a win by the opposition and a Turkish invasion of Iraq? That’s a really, really tough call. Here on the sidelines, I think the best hope is a very slim majority win by the AKP (close enough to force a secularist compromise presidency) with the U.S. successfully getting the Iraqi Kurds to crack down on the PKK.

By: Morton Doodslag

Morton Doodslag — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:58:13 +0000

“It should be understood that the AKP is quite different from the Islamists in Iran or the Arab world. They are far more cautious and accept a lot more Westernization and modernization.”

Turkey’s participation with the West has been the exception, not the rule, and something which primarily emerged in the 20th Century due to the complicated geopolitical tensions between Communism and the West.

Before that Islamic Turkey was an avowed enemy of the West — and fought against the interests of the West at nearly every opportunity.

Turkish Muslims are not somehow inherently different from all their fellow terror loving, Jihad loving, Islam loving Muslim brethren, and it’s self-deluding for us to assume that they are different.

We have no real idea what the Islamists will do once in they consolidate their gains and marginalize all those who aren’t Islamic enough in this non-secular (but always propagandized as secular) nation. But if history is any guide, we do have evidence from virtually every other Islamic society on earth: Turkey is on a path to become more primitive, more corrupt, more intolerant, more violent, and more aligned with fellow Muslim societies.

Rather than arguing by assertion that Turkey’s Muslims “are different” — it seems to me that we should assume that Turkey will follow the same trajectory as every other Islamic trend across the planet.

The Islamic world has enjoyed an unprecedented inflow of wealth (mostly due to the accident of oil — though this has not been the case with Turkey). This unprecedented wealth is the main fuel powering the engine of Islam today. Worse, our Muslim enemies now live in their millions within our homelands in the West — and as Turkey’s descent into the Islamic sewer continues apace, the West will be confronted with an existential dilemma: Are we willing to fight and kill sufficient numbers of our enemy in order to blunt and reverse his Islamization of the World? Are we strong enough to endure the violence they will unleash as their Jihad gains more land and more wealth? Or will we succumb to their various projects of subversion, violence, terrorism, and outbreeding? Muslims have successfully waged this exact same war against other great societies and nations — think Byzantium, think Persia, think India.

The primitive violence of Islam has humbled other great nations before ours — Turkey was once the greatest and wealthiest Christian nation on earth — but Muslims reduced it to a sewer of degradation over 500 years ago.

By: Brian H

Brian H — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:55:34 +0000

The big payoff conclusion sentence of the article is boogered.
“But with European pressure to end its political role, the military seems likely to intervene, unless the AKP goes too far. And, aware of this situation, the AKP is likely to be cautious.”
“…unlikely to intervene ….” surely?

By: J. Mark English

J. Mark English — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:47:47 +0000

I'll believe that a turning point has been reached when they pull their troops off the border of Iraq... http://www.americanlegends.blogspot.com/

By: dougf

dougf — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:44:03 +0000

Well this is what you eventually get when the ‘political class’ has always been, or increasingly becomes dysfunctional.

Just because a grouping is ‘secular’ does not mean it is a decent alternative or not as corrupt as the day is long. The CURSE of virtually all countries in this area is incompetence in league with corruption. That simply drives the illusion of Islamist ‘purity’.

Even with the wolf at the door the the two center-right parties splintered and fought each other. Idiots usually get what they truly deserve.

The problem is that often they take everyone else down with them. The difficulty is not really the Islamists; the difficulty is the ‘secularists’. They are incompetent and corrupt and ‘objectively’ deserve to lose. And evidently they will.

I like you don’t really see a ‘good’ solution here. My guess is however that the Islamists will soon proove themselves every bit as venal and incompetent as their alternatives. As I said — it is the CURSE of the entire region. And it appears to be a permanent fixture .