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You just made me want to work for you guys.
‘nough said.
^^
You could have saved on gas by exposing the horrors of any County Hospital in the US. Ever sit in one of them for 28 hours? The sick stuff you have to watch tops anything Canada’s got.
But of course you don’t want to know about abuses in this country, do you?
As an American citizen living in Canada, I know that shortcomings are on both sides of the border. However, with a private system, improvement and efficiency are intrinsic. However, in Canada, with a system run by bureaucrats, and no one accountable for expenses, the system degrades–inexorably. The client does not know what his treatment costs. The provider’s salary is capped. The government payer regularly delists services to control costs. For example, you must pay for your own PSA test–unless you have prostate cancer. I pay a fortune in taxes for socialist healthcare. On top of that, I pay $1600 per year for health insurance to cover what the socialists won’t cover. I’m waiting six months to see an ENT in the country’s biggest city. Canada sends it overflow to the USA every day. What will Canada do when the US can’t handle its own overflow? Fix the private system–everything government touches turns to garbage.
“But of course you don’t want to know about abuses in this country, do you?”
overstressed ERs are a problem. gov’t healthcare is not the solution – to anything except the good part of health care that we have.
I’ll go ahead and make the bold statement, other countries are able to play with socialized health care only because America’s competition driven system drives research, development and all the good stuff. Doubt me? Why do people from Canada and the UK come to the US for healthcare they can’t get at home, and pay out of pocket to do so? And they do. In droves. And it doesn’t happen in reverse.
If the US adopts socialized healthcare, not only will it be bad for all Americans, but socialized healthcare in all Western countries will see quality plummet and eventual collapse of their systems.
And if that seems odd to you, it is obvious that you don’t know the first thing about the situation at home or abroad…
Sorry but any health care–even what you incorrectly call socialism–is better than no health care at all. Try being too poor for insurance but not poor enough for government help, and you will soon learn what it’s like to live in the U.S. and be sick but not get any care. Unless you have the money, you die. All the fools saying that nationalized heath care doesn’t work in other countries are just spreading Republican propaganda. And stupid Americans believe it and then vote against their own interests. As this depression gets worse and millions don’t have jobs–and never will because they were outsourced and aren’t coming back–the number of uninsured will go from 15% to more than 20%. The only good thing is perhaps those crashing and burning will finally get a backbone and start the revolution.
“You could have saved on gas by exposing the horrors of any County Hospital in the US.” And that is a very good example of what socialized care will be like—your example a county hospital. Those without insurance flock to the county hospital for their free care, and all county hospitals are massively in the red. Or try a VA Hospital for substandard care, long waits and likely double the cost for the same service as an efficient hospital.
Sharonsj: Unfortunately, under socialized healthcare “everyone” gets subpar treatment. Socialized healthcare has NEVER worked anywhere it has been tried. I have spent time in Japan and the UK, and I can tell you, you do not want to get sick in either of these countries. And thos eare the “good” countries.
You want problems? How about someone who dies in the emergency room, for no real medical reason, and then, not have it be noticed for several hours:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2009/02/04/8264146-cp.html
A blocked catheter aggravating a bladder infection should NOT kill you.
The problem in Canada is not just nationalized health care. It’s nationalized health care that does not allow for alternatives, unless you leave the country and pay even more than other people do. They say we do not have private health care because then we would have two standards. Except we do, since the wealthy never have to wait, they leave the country and go somewhere where money will get them prompt treatment. Meanwhile, those of us who are not capable of that, are stuck waiting. And waiting. Since we already have two tier health care in Canada (just not officially) why not make it official, and allow even more people to get to private care, so that more people can be treated promptly and over all? But oh no, that’s not ‘fair’ or ‘equitable’ or ‘just’
Maybe I’m bitter because my father had a heart attack one evening and wasn’t even looked at by anyone until the next afternoon, or maybe I’m just another fool spreading Republican propaganda. It could never be because I live in a country with nationalized health care, pay a special Ontario Health Tax which is not used for Health Care, and don’t even have a family doctor. I have not been to a doctor in over 5 years. I’m sure I have things wrong with me, but I just don’t have umpteen hours to sit at a clinic during the week instead of earning money at work, or spending the weekend in the ER to get some basic health care.
I’m also an American and live in Canada. The system here is not perfect. Yes, there are waits for some services, and even to get a family doctor. And it’s also true that lots of things–dental care, vision care, prescription drugs, most physical therapy–aren’t part of the public insurance system.
On the other hand, you don’t have to worry about having to fight with your insurance company about coverage, and face possibly ruinous health care bills if you lose, the way you would in the States. And you don’t have to worry about losing your coverage if you change your job or become unemployed.
So, on the whole, even if the system here is only mediocre, I still wouldn’t trade it for the US system, which I think says more about the US system than about Canada.
Very Good job! I’m an Canadian and live in Quebec , and I agree , it’s a National-Socialized healthcare system here , with a lot of trouble if you are not a part of the ‘ethnie Jouale ‘ ( Quebecers by blood) .
You go to a hospital emergency room on a Sunday afternoon with a ‘not very urgent’ medical problem and what… you expect to be served immediately? Let the heart attacks and head-trauma victims wait their turn, right?
Make an appointment for a checkup, during clinic hours. How hard is that?
You’d probably have a similar issue with service if you wanted a haircut or an oil change, if you just show-up, outside of office hours, without an appointment.
Geeze, show a little sense here. Stop acting like anything short of perfection is utter failure.
I have heard many who support “health care” reform say that actually the problem is the emergency room. They also say that a bunch of people who do not have health insurance (and we ignore that statistical break down) go there for treatment and we who have health insurance pay for them.
It is also against the law the turn anyone away from treatment.
I also agree with what Pete said regarding the timing of visits by the way.
Anyway, my question is….if we leave the matter alone things go on as before. No problem. If we have “health care” reform many, but not all, of the people will have health insurance, things will go on as before, and it will cost us trillions. WTF????? And, oh by the way, we pay still for it. Just more. Much more.
Also, I hear that if the government becomes involved costs will come down. I have heard that savings will be huge. Can anyone anywhere name any program in which the government got involved that caused costs the go down?
And finally, if the system is so good why has Congress specifically exempted itself from it? I would think that Congress would want to lead the way and show us little people the virtues of the new system.
sharonsj: Try being too poor for insurance but not poor enough for government help, and you will soon learn what it’s like to live in the U.S. and be sick but not get any care.
Nobody here is saying our healthcare system doesn’t have problems. This is obviously one of them. The fact that people can’t get competitive healthcare when they are not working but can possibly pay for coverage at least on a temporary basis, is another. Open up competition and there will be competitive costs. People should be able, in addition, to purchase healthcare unassociated work, as well as have some kind of access to good healthcare when they are in a situation like that. I really don’t understand why and how the government is involved in this process at all.
I also think there should be some provision to protect those who have been paying all along for their healthcare and are threatened with coverage cancelation if they become high risk.
My family doesn’t buy new cars, our newest car is a 1992 Volvo. We don’t actually “go on vacation” we have made some trips, but mostly long weekends — once we went to London for 5 days to see our son perform. I have in the last 15 years put money aside to travel to my elderly mother every 14 weeks (she has since moved nearer other family members). My husband and I put two children through college, last one this spring. We’ve talked about improvements to our house (small cape), but we will probably never do that. Our son has health insurance through work. Our daughter has a summer job that offers health insurance, so we help contribute to her expense of health coverage.
Tell me, am I obligated to pay for my neighbor who chooses not to have health insurance over a buying a larger, grand house, a new car, a cruise, or an excursion to some sunny island every year? Am I obligated to provide for those who chose to come to this country illegally and burden our system on all levels? Am I obligated to educate your child through their late 20s? Am I obligated to pay for your child’s healthcare until they are 30?
I don’t feel I am, and I don’t appreciate being asked to forfeit the healthcare that I have had and am satisfied with so everybody is forced to get the same really crappy healthcare with no hope of improvement. I am being asked to take a ticket and get in line and wait longer for poorer care?
NOPE. I’ll fight you all the way, because we have nothing else to give you. We’re tapped out. My husband and I are close to retirement but our 401K is looking sad.
The real problem isn’t healthcare. We’ve got a banana republic for a country right now and “educated” fools at the helm. When this country goes down, watch what happens. It ain’t going to be pretty.
The thing that rubs me raw is if I am over 60 with a serious health issue what happens? Does the government decide my future income value to the tax structure. If I don’t pass their test…do I just wander into a big field and die?Now on the bright side..The new illegal/amnesty citizens (estimates run as high as 40 million)should be in fine shape. Isn’t political payback a hoot!!!
As one who is over 60 does have serious health issue I’ve been wondering that exact same thing.
#10
1503:
Very Good job! I’m an Canadian and live in Quebec , and I agree , it’s a National-Socialized healthcare system here , with a lot of trouble if you are not a part of the ‘ethnie Jouale ‘ ( Quebecers by blood) .
… and that’s a fact indeed.
After four years of living there, moved next province over (ON) even though it means a much longer commuter distance for work in QC for one of us, but since ON is where we wound up needing to travel to get medical care it’s a workable solution for us.
Although Quebec is the only province allowed to have private medical practices. They, the physicians in ON don’t like that one little bit.
Oh yes, and we have one more bragging point here in Canada: Gay marriage.
“Progress” is inevitable!
I recently had emergency care at a county hospital, I was the only one of a over a dozen there that had insurance, most did not speak English. I would be more understanding, except the cars they drove up in, the clothes they wore, and the gold adorning them did not speak of someone who could not afford insurance. They just came to the selfish conclusion that their irresponsiblity would be subsidized my my actions of responsibility. The government run system will continue leading us into a third world economy.
I drank un-boiled water in Mexico when I was 6, imbibed millions of yummy parasites. Almost died, luckily they still have a few old school apothecaries, one down the street from my aunts juiced me up with a shotgun load of meds. If we weren’t so close (half hour bus ride) to the mans operation, I would not have made it home after that summer. I certainly hope we wil have pockets of experienced and equipped individuals here once this lovely step back to the dark ages comes upon us.
Hm, the care in Canada has many of the flaws the clip highlighted, but I wasn’t crazy about the blatant manipulation to make it look even worse than it was. Asking the receptionist about wait times? Come to my hospital and ask me (I am in a similar position, as far as checking people in) and you will get even less info than that. I will tell you to ask the triage nurse, because they have more info than I do on what is available… but still, you can’t really predict accurately what wait times are because you can’t predict whether you are going to get three ambulance patients coming in with cardiac complications at once (happened to me yesterday) or be able to discharge those four minor cases early because they got tired of waiting around for test results (happens all the time). Also, with the take-a-number shtick, you could at least have hidden the number 769 when you showed the 770 — yes, you obviously took two tickets at once to make the number higher (which was pointless, since you didn’t show what number they were on or what number they started with that day?)
I dig where you are coming from, but that kind of blatant insult to my intelligence really makes me less supportive of your positions, not more…
Oh, and “triage” means sorting, as in putting the more-urgent patients first. Perhaps the nurse should have jumped your poor, strained wrist (while you showed no signs of visible distress; a red flag for possible drug seekers) ahead of the folks with breathing problems, chest pain and other legitimate problems?
On a lighter note, hopefully your “investigative report” didn’t slow down someone else being seen enough to affect their medical outcome, and hopefully Canada doesn’t have the same laws as the US about obtaining medical care and/or medications under false pretenses (a felony, in some cases).
i am a Pearl Harbor Survivor and faught for this country’s freedom and if it atkes a revolution to LET’S DO IT .
As a canadian myself, i happen to know that quebec sucks, so as what michael moore does, so has this guy, simply find a place that supports his bias towards the situation. The estimated cost of a socialized healthcare system in the US is likely to be ten times less than the iraq war, set into motion by ex-president bush. instead of outsourcing young lives for slaughter in a foreign country on false pretenses, lets take care of our own, people seemed so anxious to go and help out people in the middle east that they never really knew existed before 9/11, we have spent trillions on a failed attempt to liberate a people using diplomatic ways to undo religious traditions. so instead of trying to help muhammed over-seas why dont we help out our neighbors, americans, people are losing jobs and benefits all the time, again thanks to ex-president bush leading us into this financial pitt-fall. is it really that bad? AIG insurance’s way of trying to convince the american people non-socialized medicine is the way to go is giving their own ceo’s, who helped to drive the company into the ground, millions in bonuses, which by the way were funded and will be funded by your tax dollars. so how is that right there not a bit screwed up? Canada’s health system does work, because there are adequate resources for the population and the canadian government has put restrictions on the things that cause people to go to the doctors or the hospital; they have eliminted tobacco from public advertisement, thus reducing cancer victims, they have reduced speed limits,reducing car accidents and fatalities, and they have a superior police force to keep violent crimes in check. it didnt happen overnight and neither will this. give it some time, because wouldnt it be nice not to worry if you are covered or not on whether you have a right to live, and not have it be on financial merit?
First, as the above poster said, that isn’t the Canadian health care system – it’s the Quebec health care system. Quebec is…different. They just recently recovered from catholic-run goverment for example, so sundays are still not their thing.
I live on the west coast of Canada, with relatives in Alberta, and what the video shows is unrecognizable.
We’re getting a little tired of you guys trashing our system as part of your debate. This is the sort of rude shite that makes us dislike american culture. In a recent poll support for *expanding* our medicare system, vs expanding private options, was 86%. This video is just a testament to the ability to lie via selective editing and choice of interviews.
I choose my own doctor. I did not have a problem finding one. Or I can drop into a clinic within blocks of my house, any day of the week, and they’ll see me within 15 minutes or give me a slot within 2 hours to return for.
Of all my relatives and friends, from cancer to diabetes to heart problems, they’ve been seen within hours for critical care, operated on within days or a week if required. The service is spectacular in those situations. In others, yes you might wait for elective surgery – but that also happens in the states for most middle class people. Or for 1/4 of you that are uninsured, the wait is forever.
In the USA, how many people die due to lack of insurance, or because some insurance company accountant ruled against treatment? Dead panels, indeed. There is no merit test applied here for care, monetary or otherwise, with the possible exception of transplant waiting lists (where the measure is potential years of life added).
The service-per-dollar level (efficiency) is *higher* than your system’s average. The reason is simple: you can replace the 30% administration costs (accountants desperately figuring out how to deny care to policyholders), with policy instead. It isn’t socialized medicine – it’s single payer. There are still mechanisms to keep efficiency up.
This guy seems to want to be the right’s Moore, in all the wrong ways. Accepting lying to make your point is kind of desperate, are you that close to losing the debate?
But hey, I’m only an actual Canadian who’s lived in a half-dozen different cities, what do I know? You’ll believe whatever you need to.
First off, someone up thread said we have a banana republic now… Well, I guess he’s right since W the chimp left everything in shambles. For god’s sake, the new guy has been there nine months and inherited every possible mess you could throw at a new president. Give me a break. Things started going downhill when W stole the 2000 election with the help of the Supremes (not the singing group).
As far as waiting times, my Mom broke her hip in one of the most advanced health care cities in this country and wasn’t seen for EIGHT hours. Eight freakin’ hours. And our system is better how?
The bottom line is that HMOs are making far too much money off of people’s miseries and misfortunes. They are greedy heartless organizations that are only interested in profit first and foremost. Something has to be done about the HMOs. I pay $12K annually out of my own pocket for my family’s health care. And that doesn’t include co-pays, etc. Some guy way upthread said he was taxed to the gills for the socialist health care in Canada. And he even had to pay a whole extra $1600 for what the “socialists” wouldn’t pay for. I’ll bet my bill, including my ridiculous annual taxes, is much, much higher than this whiner’s paltry out-of-pocket sum. Just wait until you don’t have a job, folks. You’re gonna’ change your tune fast when you want some antibiotics but can’t pay for them. Unbelievable.
This was a complete waste of time, obviously motivated by ideology. Hospital emergency rooms are for emergencies. Of course you’re not going to get seen first when you’re walking around fine and showing no signs of distress, or even discomfort.
The Canadian system isn’t perfect, and I have my doubts whether it can be sustained as the population ages. But it does do a great job with real emergencies and serious long term health problems. One of the issues is the Canadian constitution requires a minimum standard of care, regardless of geography. In such a huge, lightly populated country, that means resources are not allocated where they are needed the most, ie where the biggest populations are. So yeah, you get waits, but it’s no worse than at any big city American hospital. But you’d obviously rather ignore the real issues to sustain your political agenda.
I had long term personal experience with the Canadian health care system due to a serious and chronic back condition as a child. And thanks to the quality care I recieved, I am now a healthy adult, and my parents are enjoying a comfortable retirement, instead of having had to break the bank to keep me alive.
So quit with the tired old “socialized medicine” boogy man. The Cold War is long over.