Peace Talks That Lead Nowhere … and Worse (Updated)
UPDATED: Apart from possible intra-Palestinian strife on the West Bank that would undoubtedly spill over into anti-Israeli terror attacks, adding still more to Israel’s security burden, Iran and allies Syria, Hizbullah, and Hamas actually fiercely oppose purported Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts and will use terror to derail them.
Already Tuesday night four Israeli civilians were killed in a shooting ambush on the West Bank for which Hamas claimed responsibility. The conventional piety that “sacrifices” are worth it on the way to peace, always morally repugnant, rings all the more hollow when peace is so chimerical.
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On September 1, President Barack Obama, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, and Jordan’s King Abdullah are set to launch the “Israeli-Palestinian direct talks” with a dinner at the White House.
There’s still hope — not much — that the talks won’t even get off the ground.
Abbas has been threatening that the Palestinian side will walk out of the talks if Israel resumes building in the West Bank after its ten-month moratorium on construction there expires on September 26. On Sunday, Netanyahu told ministers of his Likud Party that the construction will continue regardless. Officials in Washington reportedly “downplayed … Palestinian threats to bolt the talks over this issue.”
But aren’t such talks desirable in any case?
When it comes to these talks, no. They represent yet another triumph of hope over experience. If they do get going, they are likely to cause more harm than good.
Many commentators have exposed the fallacies behind the Obama administration’s relentless pursuit of these talks. Cal Thomas notes that all such efforts to resolve what is now called the “Israeli-Palestinian conflict” through talks and agreements — going back to 1936 and earlier — have not only failed but resulted in intensified Palestinian and Arab violence. Efraim Karsh underlines the fact that Abbas and his Fatah movement remain as adamantly opposed to Israel’s existence as Yasser Arafat was and as Hamas is today.
There are other problems, too:
1. The talks, if they proceed, will be held under the shadow of war. By festively launching its Bushehr nuclear reactor last August 21, Iran was making a mockery of Western attempts to thwart its nuclear ambitions via sanctions. Since then Tehran has been “rubbing it in” by unveiling a new weapon system almost daily, from bomber drones to missiles to long-range artillery shells. The Obama administration is said to have assured Israel that “Iran is at least a year away from the ‘breakout capability’ that would allow it to pursue a nuclear weapon.” But such an assurance — even if accurate, and some Israeli experts put the date sooner — is cold comfort.
In such a reality, and with Hamas, Hizbullah, the Lebanese army, and Syria (with Russian backing) also behaving aggressively on Israel’s borders, Israeli leaders need to focus first and foremost on security issues and not be sidelined into high-profile, demanding, controversy- and accusation-fraught, pointless talks.
And if the Obama administration still thinks somehow wrangling a Palestinian state out of these talks would mollify Iran and its friends, then its degree of reality-disconnect is indeed frightening.
The violence has already started. Natanyahu is a fool if he goes along with the American charade.
Looks like he’s a fool.
Ynet reports (& shows photos) of Gazans celebrating in the streets over the murder of four Israelis, one of the murdered victims left 7 children, another was a young pregnant woman.
Does Netanyahu have the common decency to return to Israel for the funerals? No, of course not, just more empty speeches, the same BS like all of our crap politicians.
You realize that this is because of US pressure to make ”gestures” to the Palestinians by removing checkpoints. And, of course, Netanyahu caved in.
“Netanyahu should be prepared to let them fail — and even be blamed for it”
Agreed. The Israeli government has too often in the past been overly concerned with its public image. This is naive because its enemies could care less about the truth. They are beyond rational persuasion. Sometimes these people are even willing to outright lie. There will be no peace in the Middle East until the radical secular and religious extremists are either killed or jailed.
Netanyahu is caught between a rock and a hard place. He has to deal with a severely anti-Israel American administration and a genocidal nuclear-seeking Iran. He needs the USA to help deal with Iran, and needs to find a way to placate Obama. The violence will also only get worse if the negotiations go forward. The Palestinians are fighting for supremacy by seeing who can kill the most Jews, Iran is playing games tryng to gain hegemony using the Palestinians and then there is Hezbollah which will be brought into the mix the closer Iran gets to a nuclear weapon to divert everyone’s attention. Not easy to be Prime Minister of Israel right now. Hopefully Netanyahu can stall until after the November elections so at least there is an overwhelningly strong Congress on his side.
Netanyahu ought to demand that Abba condemn in Arabic the murder of 4 Israelis. If Abbas refuses to do that, then Netanyahu ought to walk.
Let’s hope the Israel-PA direct talks don’t even get off the ground, as they inevitably will end in violence.
Yes. Brilliant. I’ve got a better way to avoid situations that end in violence. The next time Israel says it’s going to invade Lebanon or the West Bank/Gaza, we pull the plug and ask for our money back. That’s if you really want to “end violence”, and not just use it as a ploy to actually “continue violence”.
Gould’s Ghost.
You’re just a fool (and probably worse).
While you moron Israel-bashers regurgitate the same crap over & over, you conveniently ignore the real threats to America.
At JOSHUAPUNDIT: ”A New Must Read: Mitchel Bard’s – The Arab Lobby”
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-must-read-mitchell-bards-arab-lobby.html
You’re a ghoul dancing on the blood of Israeli civilians and their orphaned children. You get your money back constantly, in never-ending flows of intelligence, technology and improved toys. May you have a miserable day.
There is what appears to be an impossible situation. Obama not only appears weak at the moment; he IS. Netanyahu is uncompromising and will not cave. He of all people understands what’s at stake. Politics of the left are literally killing people; and this grandiose political posturing by the current administration is despicable. The growing confidence and arrogance of Islamists should be obvious to us all – as exhibited by the mosque controversy for example.
Obama HAS to show support for Israel (as I’ve stated elsewhere). Those that think the Islamists (OIC et al) will stop with an attempt to destroy Israel are seriously deluded. Hello! Anyone know which country is the biggest obstacle to the Islamists agenda? You got it…the U.S.A. They will either:
1) Attack both countries at the same time or
2) Attack the U.S.first while its resources might be compromised; then Israel will be a gift.
How many countries are there lined up against the U.S.? Let’s begin with Russia; the all of the 57 OIC countries; then any EU country that has bought into the goals of the EU as espoused by one the Commie-loving and tireless founders, Jaques Delors – a narcissist and a delusional “Progressive”.
Only God Himself can help us now…reality has to set in sometime. The rest of the world’s peoples that yearn for their right to freedom are depending on us to stand up to tyranny; not cave like a bunch of pampered stateist politicians. Our sacred honor is a stake; but God will show himself strong in all this; since he WAS present with the Founders as well and He will honor our country, and His will in its founding. He will rescue Israel and He will protect them. Bank on it.
Repeat…we have to stand with Israel. Pray for Obama.
I know you mean well, but what is the evidence that the US has historically stood against Islamists? True, the Dems have been the worst, but neither Bush really stood against Islamists, including those in the USA. But I hope a lightning bolt will strike the policymakers in America so that they stop ‘inadvertently’ facilitating this war against Israel’s security and existence.
“In the case of the right, the ultimate goal is to preserve and strengthen the United States.”
If the goal of the right is to undermine fundamental aspects of the United States, namely its secular heritage, arguably the cornerstone of our democracy, then what does it matter if they make token gestures to America’s greatness? Their interpretation of American history is so skewed by their religious fanaticism that the America they claim to love and admire as the “greatest nation in history” does not and never has existed. The right’s loyalty is not to America as it is and always has been, it’s to the America they want, one that is completely divorced from its vital secular underpinnings. Just look at the way they mangled the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950′s. If you want to talk politically-motivated historical revisionism, that’s a good place to start.
As usual David Hornik makes a powerful argument buttressed by strong evidence. I always learn something new from his pieces. From everything we know about the Palestinians under Abbas until now it seems certain the talks will fail. I had not noted the point about distraction from the security issues. My guess is the ones who want to be distracted are the Americans. Telling Israel that Iran is still a year away from a weapon is very poor consolation. A year is almost no time at all, and many years have passed since Iran was first discovered lying about its program.
After 40 plus years of peace programs, peace initiatives, peace partners, peace plans, windows of opportunities, peace talks, peace negotiations, Apocolypse on the horizon, and Uncle Tom Cobley, the Americans, the Europeans, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the Saudis, the Palestinian Israeli negotiations have achieved two unilateral Israeli withdrawals, Rabin’s Oslo and Sharon’s Disengagement, two Palestinian terror wars on Israel,two Hizballa wars on Israel, and countless numbers of dead, wounded, and maimed on both the Arab and Israeli sides, and billions of dollars of destruction throughout the Middle East.
And through all this, we are no closer to peace now than we ever were.
Will this round of talks fail? Almost certainly!
Will the situation deteriorate any more than it already has? Probably not.
Will the Arab and Palestinian world change so much during these talks that they can even consider making peace with the Jewish State of Israel? Don’t be silly, of course not!
plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose
There is a massive storm heading towards the US east coast. G-d forbid Obama pushes too far.
Obama has nothing to push with anymore, he is within two months of being a lame duck President, and the only question is whether the November beating he is going to take will leave him a paraplegic or a quadraplegic.
Israel has nothing to fear from this incompetent and immature clown.
BHO has just asked Netanyahu to withdraw to the 1967 boarders. The storm has just shifted. The proportional amount of territory in the USA will be devastated. May G-d have mercy on the poor souls who will suffer for the blindness of BHO.
“Peace” talks?
Shouldn’t that read “Submission” talks?
To what end?
That more than 100,000 Israelis will be induced — or more likely forced — to move from their homes in lawfully-Israeli Judea and Samaria?
In whose bloody dreams?
Already the hardest task the IDF was ever forced to undertake involved the forced removal of a relative handful of Israelis from their lawful Gaza homes and there is no way Israelis will ever permit a scaled-up replay of that effort, which required around 50,000 service personnel.
Rather clear the occupying Jordanians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis and all the other posing as “Palestinians” from Judea and Samaria — and have them all go home.
For Abu Mazen (Mahmood Abbas) to be “successful”, the talks MUST fail. The “peace process” has always been the meal ticket for the PLO and their ilk. To actually sign a treaty, end the violence, establish a genuine political entity would negate all they have done up to now. Their goal is not now nor has it ever been peace with Israel (or the United States, for that matter). The goal has always been the destruction of Israel. So, why even agree to negotiations? Abbas has to look and act the part – at least in English – for his Western benefactors. After all, his kitchen needs a redo and a couple of his thugs want new swimming pools.
Monster Hurricanes and Divine Providence
by Rabbi Lazer Brody
The very first tenet of the Jewish faith, the first of the Rambam’s thirteen principles is:
I believe with complete faith that The Creator, blessed be His name, is The Creator and Ruler of all the creations, and He only did, does, and will do every single deed.
Rabbi Yisroel Baal Shem Tov of blessed memory, the founder of the Hassidic movement and the great grandfather of Rebbe Nachman of Breslev, elaborated on the above principle, as follows: Not only does The Almighty decide the fate of the great nations, He also decides what a particular silk worm in Japan shall eat for supper, and the exact moment when a certain oak leaf shall fall to the ground from a particular tree in the Ukrainian forest.
Rebbe Nachman of Breslev of blessed memory, teaches that the environment is the language that Hashem uses to speak to a person. Therefore, we are all obligated to try our best to search for the Divine wisdom in every creation, and therefore understand Hashem’s personal message to each of us.
Here’s an example: The Talmud teaches that one who slanders a fellow human is worthy to thrown to the dogs (tractate Pesachim 118a); the Zohar goes further, and says that one who slanders shall be bitten by a dog. So, if The Almighty sends a dog to bark at us and scare us, it’s most likely a message that we either spoke, read, listened to, or wrote something slanderous about another human being. The dog scare is not a punishment – it’s a catalyst for Teshuva.
Breslever Chassidim spend at least 60 minutes a day in hitbodedut, personal prayer and soul-searching, while pondering the events of the last 24 hours in order to facilitate Tshuva, or repenting. Rebbe Nachman says that hitbodedut is the loftiest act of Judaism; all the prophets and the great tzaddikim, including Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and King David, achieved their supreme spiritual levels by virtue of hisbodedus. By hitbodedut, they were able to understand the causes and effects of each creation, and the Divine messages within each creation.
If someone tells you that a hurricane is just a hurricane, a random event in nature external of Hashem’s Divine providence G-d forbid, that person is an epikoris, a non-believer by definition according to the above-mentioned very first tenet of our faith. Hashem creates the hurricane and its intensity, then decides when and where it will strike, according to His master plan for the world and according to His individual plans for each of His creations, whether mineral, plant, animal, or human. Hashem decides zillions and zillions of tiny details in exact Divine providence, such as whether or not the wind will blow away Mrs. Wilson’s hankies that are hanging up to dry on a Mississippi clothesline.
Meteorologists warn that a monster hurricane could be spawned before the season the hurricane season ends on November 30.
Yes, I believe that we have the power to neutralize monster hurricanes.
Our High Holiday liturgy says: “Teshuva, prayer, and charity can overturn a harsh edict.” Ask the people of Nineva: “And G-d saw their deeds, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented of the evil that He said He would do unto them; and He did it not (Jonah 3:10).”
Hashem literally gives us the power to control creation. Teshuva, prayer, and charity are three cogent weapons that can reduce a hurricane to a ripple in a tea cup.
Sadly, P.David Hornik’s ……”When it comes to these talks, no. They represent yet another triumph of hope over experience.”….sums up the whole of the region’s history since 1948.
Think of it….all of this “Peace” talk and “Conference” machination since 1948 has led to….what?…yet another gathering…this one more fraught than those before because the shallow, callow Barak Hussain Obama is the current host here in Washington.
It was bad enough when Rabin was pressured into actually shaking the hand of that viper Arafat….and later murdered. How tragic when Anwar Sadat was murdered in Cairo after visiting Jerusalem.
Surely Netanyu deserves tremendous sympathetic applause for even boarding his aircraft at Ben Gurion Airport and flying into yet another (at best) foggy unproductive week in Washington. He deserves a Nobel for Patience and Presence in the midst of the greatest hypocrisy and application of taqiyya and kitman. At least he knows enough to recognize those slippery multi-faceted concepts and how they are applied.
May G*d support Netanyu, and preserve us all from Obama’s naivete and inexperience.
PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein: “The Palestinian people does not exist”
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here’s what he said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
Bibi needs to insist that jews already living in the west bank be grandfathered as full citizens of any Palestinian state….this will be unacceptable to the Jew hating Arabs, will illustrate to the world the actual agenda, and completely stop all of this silly peace talk nonsense.