Palin Mainstreams the Birthers
I didn’t want to write about Sarah Palin anymore.
Really, I didn’t want to. God, I didn’t want to. But every time I think I’m out, she pulls me back in.
Face it, my friends. If Sarah Palin’s nugatory understanding of everything from foreign affairs to economic matters doesn’t cause you concern, if her predilection to expand, exaggerate, or fudge the truth about herself and her past statements hasn’t yet convinced you that she is a lightweight prevaricator and doesn’t deserve your support, then this exchange with conservative talker Rusty Humphries should change your mind:
Would you make the birth certificate an issue if you ran?
I think the public, rightfully, is still making it an issue. I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t know if I would have to bother to make it an issue ’cause I think there are enough members of the electorate who still want answers.
Do you think it’s a fair question to be looking at?
I think it’s a fair question, just like I think past associations and past voting record — all of that is fair game. You know, I’ve got to tell you, too: I think our campaign, the McCain/Palin campaign didn’t do a good enough job in that area. We didn’t call out Obama and some of his associates on their records and what their beliefs were and perhaps what their future plans were. And I don’t think that that was fair to voters to not have done our jobs as candidates and as a campaign to bring to light a lot of the things that now we’re seeing made manifest in the administration.
I mean, truly, if your past is fair game and your kids are fair game, certainly Obama’s past should be. I mean, we want to treat men and women equally, right?
Hey, you know, that’s a great point, in that weird conspiracy-theory freaky thing that people talk about that Trig isn’t my real son. And a lot of people say, “Well you need to produce his birth certificate! You need to prove that he’s your kid!” Which we have done. But yeah, so maybe we could reverse that and use the same [unintelligible]-type thinking on them.
Those who live on the fringes of American politics usually don’t realize how wacky they truly are. For the last time: The state of Hawaii issued a statement confirming that Obama was born there, thus making him a U.S. citizen. Why is that so hard to accept? There are no “questions” left to answer except in the minds of simpletons and paranoid conspiracy freaks.
No, it is not a “fair question.” It is a silly, stupid, ignorant question. No, “the public” is not making this an issue — only looney tune numbskulls are pursuing it. No, there aren’t “enough (whatever that means) members of the electorate who still want answers.” Only a small subset of the entire electorate cares.
And her whining declaration that she didn’t go after Obama hard enough on his radical associations fails to mention that the reason McCain dropped it was because nearly 2/3 of voters couldn’t have cared less. It was a losing strategy, period.
What a pompous ass you are
Some conspiracies are more valid than others?
Is this idiot actually advocating that Palin is not the mother of her child?
“By her stupidity” …
Been through all this before, Rick. You lost. It’s all still a giant open question — who is this guy Obama? No one knows. Media hasn’t done its job. No free pass.
Why do you keep standing in the train tracks?
What planet is Rick Moran from that he doesn’t understand that the Birthers don’t care that a COLB was produced.
Why? The certificate contains NO MENTION of attending physician, hospital, etc. therefore it is NOT the real birth certificate and Ozero fails to produce the real thing.
Also Rick Moran is an idiot because he pooh-poohs Palin’s equalizing this issue and the Trig issue. Does Rick Moran have a brain? Of course the comparison is valid. The media allowed the Trig issue to proliferate, but won’t touch the fact that O doesn’t produce his REAL birth certificate with attending physician, etc. merely relying on a COLB, which is a pale shadow of a real birth certificate.
Moran is an idiot who is missing the essential points on this issue.
Rick Moran, you just don’t get it so don’t even TRY to write about Sarah Palin; you’re missing the entire point. She puts Obama’s birth certificate in context while you are the following the MSM meme. Who is the leader here? Here’s a clue: It’s not you or the MSM. Heck, it’s not even Obama!
Come back when you have a backbone & out of your own self-created bubble.
I always think it’s ironic that this was started by a Hillary supporter (a lawyer named Philip Berg) trying to get Obama disqualified prior to the Democrats’ national convention. So, should all the Democrat candidates also have to declare where they stand on the certificate?
We didn’t call out Obama and some of his associates on their records and what their beliefs were and perhaps what their future plans were.
Yeah, sure you didn’t.
Thanks Rick Moran, you are truly one of a handful at this website speaking intelligently to true conservatives and libertarians.
Tina. Each state has its own laws and rules concerning birth certificates. If you’d like the Federal Government to step in and standardize those laws, then you should start writing about that. Obama’s birth certificate looks like any other birth certificate issued by Hawaii.
Here’s one from a birther website, it has none of the items you are requesting.
http://nobarack08.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth-certificate-real-hawaii.jpg
Hey Rick, your “facts” are as solid as Al Gore’s AGW “facts”. Let Barry model for the world his stated belief in transparency, spend $15, and release his actual BC to settle this matter once and for all. The State of Hawaii simply threaded a needle with their “legal speak” about having in their possesion a Ceritficate of Live Birth. It’s not worth the paper it’s written on. No college, high school, vis, passport, birth certificate, nothing is avilable on this person. Your blind faith in Obama ideology is embarassing. Enjoy your koolaid.
I think it’s ironic that this was started by a Hillary supporter (Lawyer named Philip Berg) trying to get Obama disqualified prior to the Democrat national covention. So, should all the Democrat candidates have to state where they stand on this issue as well?
BTW, in my opinion the certificate is a done issue. SCOTUS ruled, those suing didn’t have standing, those who would have standing don’t want to sue. It’s done, move on- does anyone really want the riots/accusations/conspiracy theories that would result even if HI reversed themselves and said they didn’t have a certificate- lost/burnt/stolen/dog ate it/Martian disintegrated it- plot to take advantage of Obama to get Biden to be president etc. etc. etc.
another writer who has no clue, but thinks he knows it all. Oh that’s right he is from Chicago. That explains it.
Are you saying that dual-citizen-at-birth Barack Obama is a natural born citizen? I’m trying to read John Jay’s letter to George Washington while replacing “natural born” with “born with multiple citizenships” and the letter isn’t making much sense.
…birtherism will have gone completely mainstream in the Republican Party. If that happens, you might want to forget about any significant gains at the polls for the GOP in 2010.
Rick Moran: Like how trutherism went mainstream in the Democratic Party so much so that a truther, Van Jones, became a czar in the Obama administration, after the Dems swept the polls in 2008?
See 2007 Zogby poll: 42% of Democrats are either Truthers or Quasi-Truthers.
I’m not much for birtherism or Sarah Palin actually, but I’ve really gotten tired of your poorly reasoned pieces and constant cavils with conservatives you don’t like.
Rick, re O’s birth certificate. Can you provide a rational reason why O’s birth certificate (the original that includes the hospital, attending physician,etc. NOT the certificate of live birth) has not been released? And, why is he spending $1M plus on attorneys to keep it locked up? I don’t stay awake at night worrying about it, just another unknown in the long list of O’s curiosities..
My position on this is “trust but verify”. Obama could put this whole thing to bed if he so chose by simply providing the long form birth certificate. But he doesn’t, and one has to wonder why. If it was simply an isolated incident, it would be easy to overlook – but given the amount of other information he refuses to release (such as his university performance and health records), and considering his fundamental dishonesty regarding everything from campaign pledges to former associates to his handling of major bills, I’d say Americans have every right to start digging deeper, should they so choose. And Sarah Palin is correct in supporting that right, particularly given the openess of her own life, and the success she had while holding office.
Rick Moran allows his baseless antipathy against Palin to color his thinking, when he writes:
“I think the public, rightfully, is still making it an issue. I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t know if I would have to bother to make it an issue ’cause I think there are enough members of the electorate who still want answers.”
and then
“After realizing the damage, Palin tried a little walkback last night on her Facebook page:”
There’s no walkback or inconsistency here, Rick.
You’re letting your crazy hang out.
also
“the reason McCain dropped it was because nearly 2/3 of voters couldn’t have cared less”
And now that they see what a nebbishy whack job Obama is, now they care.
Hey! If it were I who was being asked for my birth certificate, I wouldn’t just post a questionable jpeg image on my own website. I would authorize the municipality where I was born to provide certified copies of my original birth certificate to anyone willing to pay the municipality’s fee for such a copy.
But that’s just me I guess? Right!
And you could see my school transcripts and expired passports too.
ML/NJ
“…that the reason McCain dropped it was because nearly 2/3 of voters couldn’t have cared less. It was a losing strategy, period.”
That is absolute nonsense. The politically correct John McCain was inhibited by race guilt. This was also the case, it should be added, with Rick Moran. McCain felt very uncomfortable about taking to task a black minister. Most Americans were not indifferent but confused by the matter. They were conned by the MSM and its allies to believe that the hullabaloo was greatly exaggerated. Had McCain, however, consistently criticized Obama on his relationship with Wright and other radicals starting no later then June—-The Democratic Party standard-bearer’s campaign would have been effectively over by the middle of September.
Sarah Palin has regrettably opened the door to the “Obama was not born in the United States” crowd. This is a mistake, but why should it be perceived as tragic? Palin would be wise to add a little more nuance to her position in the very near future. I suspect that Obama might have been born outside the country. But it can’t be proved. We are therefore left with mere speculation. And that’s simply not enough to justify removing Obama from office! Constitutional scholar Hugh Hewitt rightfully points out that the burden of proof remain on Obama’s accusers. He is not obligated to prove anything.
Rick , you need to get with the program . Sarah Palin may not be a great intellectual . She has common sense. She would be a better President than the preening , strutting , popinjay we have now. She is a proven leader . Ever thing the big Zero knows is wrong . He is a community agitator that does not know a thing about running a country . Sarah Palin would be a tremendous improvement .So why do keep running down our best chance to change our situation .
Rick, you do sound a little predisposed, even agendized. Sarah’s Facebook “damage control” or “walkback” looks to me like a simple clarification of a statement she made in an interview.
Why does pajamasmedia.com allow Rick Moran to appear on their site when his own website is filled with profanity. If pajamasmedia wants to have us take your standards seriously regarding comments, don’t have someone whose own site has the highlighted phrase and I quote
“MY CONSERVATIVE APOSTASY AND WHY I DON’T GIVE A F**K WHAT YOU THINK”
I visited his site just long enough to make sure this phrase was copied correctly. I have no need to visit it again but someone at pajamasmedia should.
We have a person not holding elective office espousing a view with which someone else disagrees.
Isn’t there something more important going on? I’m far more concerned about the state of the economy in general; what the proposed healthcare bill might do to it; climategate, Copenhagen and cap’n trade; the attempt to strip power from the Fed; and that mess in Afghanistan.
The former Governor of Alaska and failed Vice Presidential candidate’s views on an issue that has already been resolved by the courts three years in advance of the next election isn’t on my radar screen. It won’t ever be.
What is wrong with you? Where does this obsession with Palin come from? Get help.
I love the conservatives who get their frills ridiculing the birthers. The same “conservatives” who profess original intent for the Constitution is the only proper way to interpret it. Tell us Ricky, what was the original intent of the founders when the put the “natural born citizen” clause into the Constitution? What was their working definition of natural born citizen? Answer those questions and maybe you’ll get a clue.
Hey, I know us conservatives pride ourselves on being all open minded and all (as opposed to the ones who practice it more in the breach), but what the hell:
Rick, you’re a close minded malcontent who mouths the same lame crap that made McCain a loser and visited this disaster upon our children’s children’s children. 2/3rds of who didn’t care? Most people never even heard of Rashid Khalidi, PLO mouthpiece and all around terrorist pal, and most TOTUS voters couldn’t even identify who ran the congress when they went to the polls.
I’m not a birther, but nobody gets a pass when they are able to openly lie about other documents, like public votes for infanticide and kiddie sex ed, and Palin’s not wrong to want to find out more about the International Man of Misery.
We (Tea Party Conservatives) don’t need your’ crappy, nice guy loser advice, and we don’t want people like you in the GOP. You may think we’re a minority club in waiting, but the people will come around to see it our way as this disaster continues to unfold, and people like you, and David Brookes, and all the other pseudo intellectual RINO’s will just confuse them. (Have we mentioned that about 53% of the electorate are not the brightest bulbs)? Frankly, following your advice is the easiest way to make the GOP into a permanent minority party that (like the Conservatives in Parliament) can only win when the other side catastrophically f’s up.) Of course that’s the real danger now that they have: You guys might decide your some kind of strategic geniuses, just like Jefferson Davis during the Mexican American War.
So please, go undermine real conservatives at the Huffington Post. Maybe you can trade that up into a gig at the Atlantic within a few months and join Excitable Andy in a newfound “He-man women haters club”. I’ll leave it to you to figure out which is Spanky, and which is Alfalfa.
Rick, judging from the replies you’re probably wondering when exactly your side went batsh*t insane.
Don’t worry though, you’ve only been FReeped.
Perhaps 2/3 of the electorate didn’t care about Obama’s past associations. Are you, Mr. Moran, saying they shouldn’t have cared? Nevertheless, many more voters are caring now, partly because uncowed conservatives have demonstrated that Obama’s people are dangerous, some even treacherous. I wonder how anybody other than a partisan leftist would describe your own motives.
it is a fair question.
I don’t care what the State of Hawaii claims. there were a lot of “top scientists” who have been perpetrating a huge fraud about global warming.
the bigger point even if obama was born in the USA he is not a natural born citizen since both parents were not US citizens.
hey I don’t make the rules but am expected to live by them.
JUST SHOW THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
Rick, Rick, Rick….somehow the phrase, “thou doth protest too much” comes to mind…
For the record (as if you are interested in any RECORDS, including Obama’s!)
she also added on her Facebook page:
“But at no point – not during the campaign, and not during recent interviews – have I asked the president to produce his birth certificate or suggested that he was not born in the United States.”
There, PERIOD! What she IS saying…and I totally agree with her, is that citizens of this FREE country have a right to know and ask questions!
Are you TRULY saying that everybody in this land of FREE SPEECH should just sit quietly on there hands and NOT ASK WHY Obama continues to HIDE a MOUNTAIN of documentation about his past???????
REALLY?????
So voters have NO RIGHT TO KNOW, much less continue to ask WHY?
Don’t go and spin this as some sort of looney conspiracy birther movement theory….IT’S NOT!!!
I for one, believe Obama was born in Hawaii…but there are many, many, MANY who are still asking questions about Obama’s refusal to release ANY of his past records, including his voting record in ther Illinois senate!!!
So someone who wants his VOTING RECORD released is NOW a BIRTHER NUT????
Maybe, just maybe, if we had screamed loud enough during the campaign and TRULY VETTED this failing narcissist we have in the White House…we wouldn’t be in the mess we are now, but NOOOOOOO…..
We’re told to SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, and just ride it out for 4 years while the country goes flying off a cliff…
And this by supposedly conservative spokesholes who think questioning ANYTHING about Obama’s past automatically makes one a “Birther” (shudder) or nut-case conspiracy wackjob!!!
This is truly a LOW POINT for you, RICK. I can see your disgust with Palin oosing out of your pores, but really…take a closer look at what she REALLY said and tell me again I have NO RIGHT to ask questions or NO RIGHT to know the TRUTH (as in ON THE RECORD!!!) about the man in the WHITE HOUSE…which, btw…
DOES NOT MAKE ONE A BIRTHER!!!
What makes this birther story even dumber is it’s a pure technicality. The framers of the Constitution wanted to make sure the President was not a citizen of another country because they wanted to make sure their loyalty was to the U.S. Obama’s mother was a U.S. citizen. Does anyone really believe that if Obama had been born on the Canadian side of Niagra Falls that he’s going to be loyal to Canada rather than the U.S.? Please. Obama was conceived in the womb of an American, was carried to term in the womb of an American, ergo he’s an American. Sheesh, I never thought I’d hear conservatives arguing that the Constitution doesn’t apply to the unborn.
Quite wrong, Commuter.
Example of someone who was issued the long form the day after Ozero was born:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=105347
Please point out where in the statment “by the state of Hawaii” it says he was actually born there???
It only says they have his birth certificate on file.
““There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
Rick, You’re preaching to the wrong choir. Sorry. Why don’t you give Sarah a break and take a long hike off a short pier, and do it in Alaska.
Rick Moron,
By publishing your silly rantings Pajamas mainstreams stupid.
TJ Ronn – The State of Hawaii (Republican Governor, Republican head of the Department of Health) has repeatedly confirmed the COLB as legit and in line with the ones they currently issue. It’s a valid government document accepted by, among other agencies, the US State Department and Department of Defense for purposes of establishing birthplace and US citizenship.
As for the “OVER $1 MILLION” claimed, I keep seeing this cited, but I have yet to see any proof. Do you have any proof of this amount?
For the record, the vast majority of the lawsuits have been against state and federal officials, NOT against Obama directly, and as such defense rests on the taxpayers and not Obama. There’s only been 3 or 4 cases that have directly involved Obama, and even fewer that his personal attorneys (rather than the DoJ) have been involved with.
Why hasn’t anyone raised the equally serious question of whether Obama was born via C-section, thus meaning he’s not a “natural-born citizen” and thus, ineligible to be President. Come on people, let’s get our act together on this one.
The birth certificate issue ranks right up there with the story that nobody can remember Obama’s time at Columbia.
Rick, your commenters here are some of the only people around dumber than Sarah Palin. No small feat.
This is what conservatism has been reduced to.
Why do you bother?
how do you get that Palin is a birther out of her comments you posted?
you are just trying to put her in a conspiracy camp of the marxist making. just like teabagger and bithers …terms of endearment from our friends in the socialist / marxist camp. McCain produced his birth certificate because of the crys he wasn’t natural born. he produced all his previous school records etc. obama none !
obama and friends are getting a pass on not following any of their own rules and the media are enablers looking the other way or aiding in the cover up(s) and lies from the obama administration.
you Rick are also one of these enablers.
Rick, I’m following Sarah since 2005 and can tell you “you don’t have a clue”! I can assure you that after this little “tit for tat” nobody will question Sarah again on any birth certificate and the LSM isn’t going to touch it.
“I didn’t want to write about Sarah Palin anymore.” Then don’t.
Tina, at the risk of condescending, you don’t seem to even understand what Corsi was seeking to imply in that article. He is saying that absolute proof would be these photostatic copies. As should be obvious, not everyone holds on to their birth certificate. They get lost and destroyed with time. Should that same woman ask for a replacement of these birth certificates, then she will receive exactly what Obama has.
Obama has a legal birth certificate in the state of Hawaii; you may not like the way that Hawaii processes birth certificates, but that’s your problem, not Obama’s.
This is the level of “reporting” that should be below even PJTV.
Moran’s statement link above not goes to a MSM article about the *first* statement back in October of last year. The MSM article is misleading about that statement: if you read the actual statement from HI itself you’ll see it doesn’t match up to what the article says.
In fact, HI released another statement in July clarifying their earlier statement. Moran isn’t linking to that, he’s just linking to a misleading MSM article about the first, ambiguous statement as his proof.
As for the wider issue, you can believe in your heart of hearts that BHO was born where he says and still point out that the MSM has repeatedly lied about the basic facts of this matter:
http://24ahead.com/s/obama-citizenship
Scroll down for a list of those who’ve lied and misled.
Obviously, a lot of people don’t mind it when the press lies to them just as long as it breaks their way. However, a press that just makes things up should be very worrisome to those who realize how vital the press is in this country.
“…that the reason McCain dropped it was because nearly 2/3 of voters couldn’t have cared less. It was a losing strategy, period.”
Please take a look at the link provided by Rick Moran. He is referring to a piece dated Oct. 20, 2008! It was awfully late in the day for John McCain to go after Barack Obama’s association with Bill Ayers and other radicals. That should have been done months earlier. Waiting roughly two and a half weeks before the actual election reeked of desperation.
Lets have 3 cheers for Rick Moran; hip hip hurrah, hip hip hurrah, hip hip horse s**T!!
Sarah Palin made a good mayor and a good governor of a sparsely populated state whose economy relied on two industries: commercial fishing and oil. To elevate her to the status of leader of The Free World with a resume thinner than the Juneau phone book is the thinking of the sorely deluded. So she had a book ghost-written, and in an era where almost anything receives promotion due to the incessant need of the 24/7 media desperate to fill air time, her ubiquitous presence thumping her autobiography has inevitably led some to attenuated thought resulting in a declaration that she is Winston Churchill in drag. She may have many of the cultural values that qualify as conservative, but so does my cleaning lady, and from what I’ve hard of Mrs. Palin’s answers to questions on diplomacy, the economy, and governance, my cleaning lady may be better suited to campaign for the presidency.
This is not to disparage Mrs. Palin. It is just that celebrityhood and being telegenic itself does not automatically qualify one for leadership. When I think of the characteristics of leadership , I think of Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher. Anyone who includs Mrs. Palin in that hallowed group needs serious medical attention.
Neo-
Hey, just shut up about his lack of any records released or ANYONE who EVER knew him at Columbia…don’t you know he released his COLB, for God’s sake!!!
There, case closed!
Now go sit on your hands!!
Sarah’s just avoiding hurting her base. That’s reasonable as a politician. If she was espousing theories that Obama was not eligible to be president, then it would be appropriate to pin the “birther” pejorative on her.
As for the birther debate, as usual, there’s a lot of nonsense, but there is also something quite reasonable: the question of why O has not produced the original document.
Personally, I have no doubt that he qualifies as a natural born citizen. Those folks who bring up the one foreign parent thing, or other issues, are simply wrong.
OTOH, he is hiding a whole lot of stuff about his past – basically everything he can. It leads to the following suppositions:
-he’s just paranoid and hides everything out of habit
-he has things to hide (I think this is very likely about his academic performance)
-he has things to hide, so he hides everything so nobody knows even what area he is hiding things in (I give this some plausibility)
-he has something to hide about his birth – such as something embarrassing (wrong father, perhaps) or whatever
-he is hiding his birth certificate in order to foster a birther movement which is politically useful in a demagogic sense – to paint his opposition as a bunch of loons. If it wasn’t his original motive, it may well be now. Also notice how well it worked for the “climate scientists” who conflated the serious statistician skeptics with the “God made earth, so we can’t hurt it” sort of loons.
“Obama has a legal birth certificate in the state of Hawaii; you may not like the way that Hawaii processes birth certificates, but that’s your problem, not Obama’s.”
That is correct. There is simply no convincing evidence that Obama was born outside the United States. Mere speculation is not enough to kick him out of the White House. This is a road leading nowhere. We are better off focussing on other more pertinent matters associated with Obama’s pathetically awful leadership.
In fact, HI released another statement in July clarifying their earlier statement. Moran isn’t linking to that, he’s just linking to a misleading MSM article about the first, ambiguous statement as his proof.
Um, you didn’t link to it either. I have here the names of forty three…no fifty eight, communists currently working in the state department…
“To elevate her to the status of leader of The Free World with a resume thinner than the Juneau phone book is the thinking of the sorely deluded.”
Huh? I am a bit confused. Barack Obama was elected president of the United States—and his resume is far thinner than Sarah Palin’s.
Commuter, there’s no danger of condescending since you have no pedestal to condescend from (reason being you have already been proven wrong).
Hawaii obviously DID issue long form certs when Ozero was born so you are wrong there.
Now, as far as your assertion that a person must hold onto their original birth cert in order to prove that they have one. It is widely understood that people lose their official documents all the time. That’s is why (as risk of seeming condescending) the STATE holds onto a copy. And HI has said that they have this birth cert on file. But Ozero has not OK’ed the release.
You should read up more on the issue. You seem uninformed.
Um, everyone makes it sound like it is just about his birth certificate. The onion is much more pungent when you peel away the outer layers.
Okay, somebody ginned up a BC from Hawaii, or at least an affidavit. What about his adoption in Indonesia? Which would require some sort of naturalization on his return, because you can’t hold dual citizenship and be even a U.S. Senator. If you don’t have record of that, then there would be a record of an “Oath of Allegiance (OoA).” (No record there)
So, besides the fact that there is no record of his naturalization (if there was, he can’t be POTUS) and no OoA; birthers are pretty much stupid and only care about the birth certificate! Who is naive and simplistic? You are!
Nothing about this man is what we have been told. And don’t even get me started on who wrote his books. (Cough – Ayers)
Rick-
…. … and the horse you rode in on.
Rick,
You only bite down on the cyanide capsule if you’re captured, you idiot!
Wow! You have bested J.R. Dunn in terms of pejoratives directed at birthers (and even those who just believe they have a point). You trash Sarah Palin like a Letterman writer. You forgot to mention you don’t like Rush Limbaugh.
Are you willfully ignorant to the fact that Obama is hiding something? I believe he probably was born in Hawaii. I want the rest of the questions answered. I like Sarah Palin. Personally I don’t see her as presidential material but she is wildly popular with a lot of conservatives. You don’t do the cause of conservatism any favors by trashing her.
I read your blogs almost daily at American Thinker. Most of the time you don’t appear to have your head up your ass. Today is an exception.
45. Coral:
Sarah Palin made a good mayor and a good governor of a sparsely populated state whose economy relied on two industries: commercial fishing and oil. To elevate her to the status of leader of The Free World with a resume thinner than the Juneau phone book is the thinking of the sorely deluded. So she had a book ghost-written, and in an era where almost anything receives promotion due to the incessant need of the 24/7 media desperate to fill air time, her ubiquitous presence thumping her autobiography has inevitably led some to attenuated thought resulting in a declaration that she is Winston Churchill in drag. She may have many of the cultural values that qualify as conservative, but so does my cleaning lady, and from what I’ve hard of Mrs. Palin’s answers to questions on diplomacy, the economy, and governance, my cleaning lady may be better suited to campaign for the presidency.
This is not to disparage Mrs. Palin. It is just that celebrityhood and being telegenic itself does not automatically qualify one for leadership. When I think of the characteristics of leadership , I think of Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher. Anyone who includs Mrs. Palin in that hallowed group needs serious medical attention.
a very VERY thin argument given obama’s record …what we can see of his record. some one else did everything EVERYTHING for him. he did manage to vote present when challenged.
I do not put Palin in the ranks of thatcher or regan … they (although they did a lot of good things) have some very VERY ugly skeletons in their closets.
I think Moran needs to come out of the closet and climb into the Democrat bed where he belongs. He is exactly the type of liability that conservatives and rational people looking to effect a return to sound principles need to push over the cliff or under the bus.
We don’t need your undercover Oba Maoisms.
a Ship of Fools, and I among them:
Palin for talking to Humphries
Humphries for suckering her into
his conspiracy theory.
Moran for willfully misinterpreting
what was said, and ignoring the valid
reference to Obama’s opaque history.
Youse guys for taking the bait.
and me for commenting on it;
Just can’t resist.
Can’t really fault Obama for hiding
his weaknesses, and no longer need to;
His behavior on record, during his campaign
and as POTUS, is enough to convince anyone
who values their future more than his ego,
that the man is a disaster for the US.
#48:
The issue is not whether there is convincing evidence he was born outside the US but whether there is such evidence indicating he was actually born in the US having a Kenyan father.
Contrary to Moran’s assertion, no such evidence has been provided either by Hawaii or by Obama himself. This could be very easily put to rest (and I think it would be) simply by releasing an abstract of the actual birth certificate.
Where is the ClimateGate hacker when we need him again????
I said:As should be obvious, not everyone holds on to their birth certificate. They get lost and destroyed with time. Should that same woman ask for a replacement of these birth certificates, then she will receive exactly what Obama has.
You replied: Hawaii obviously DID issue long form certs when Ozero was born so you are wrong there.
I can see more clearly where the logic of the birther movement comes from, so thanks for that. There may be a literacy project in your neighborhood, so look out for the RIF van.
I’m sorry but Pres. Obama does not qualify for the presidency because to be a “natural born citizen”
both your “Father and Mother” have to be “citizens” of the “United States of America”, His father is not case closed. Liberals again YOU! Lose! Ya just can’t seem to understand reality… Or the Constitution. Oh! and Good luck with that Polar Bear “problem”.
Why is Rick Moran foolishness posted on Pajamas media? Why not just have David Axelrod himself trash Sarah Palin?
Why is Moran obsessed with Sarah Palin anyway? She’s not the President, Obama is. And how’s that going?
It can only be that Moran, the stealth liberal, and all the other Lefties are terrified of Palin.
First and forecast, their own leaders – Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Biden, Dodd, Rangel, Frank, … it’s so easy to reel them off — are such jokes.
On the other hand, Palin can win for so many reasons: She is a true conservative and is the equal of Obama in charisma – the only thing he has. She’s a fighter, likes a challenge and will overcome the left’s ongoing attempts to destroy her. She has proved hereself in economics. As a result of her tax and spending cuts, Wasilla and Alaska’s economies boomed. She was responsible for getting Alaska’s natural gas pipeline guilt – which had been stalled for 30 years. If she were president, you’d see the US drill for oil and natural gas, build nuclear power plants, build new refineries, turn coal and shale formations into gas, etc. Think of the real jobs that would create, compared to Obama’s pitifully few government jobs which produces no income, creates no wealth, generates no economic expansion, and provides no economic incentive for job creation, but does suck taxes from the private sector.
Obama will be easy to defeat in 2012, like Jimmy Carter in 1980. But that doesn’t mean the Repubs cannot still lose. If they nominate old, stiff non-conservatives like Bob Dole, George HW Bush or John McCain, they will lose. Furthermore, the Democrats have the advantages of the MSM, Academia, Hollywood, Unions and Govt bureaucrats — which gives them a 10% handicap advantage right off the bat. But if the Repubs focus on Sarah Palin now and groom her for 2012, they will win easily, and the country will prosper.
Point taken about Obama’s tenure in office, even more significant was what he believed. Now she was the underticket last year and as such. they would certainly have been subject to marginalization by the geniuses in the McCain team. But she would have pushed for more energy exploration not less, pressed a harder line on Iran, specially after the elections, have pushed for a faster decision on Afghanistan. There would have been pressure to retire the TARP, once it’s effectiveness wasput in doubt, and there would have been more tax incentives in the stimulus. Truth is we are doing everything bassackwards as she puts it herself.
Just what is going on?
It’s become the Default Politically Correct opinion that anyone questioning the birthplace of Obama is labeled a “Birther” which means as crazy as a “Truther.” Huh?
Personally, at this point, I don’t care much one way or another — where he was born. It’s too late. But, prior to election I see nothing wrong with having pursued this.
Actually, the first document “proving” his U.S. birth, turned out to have been a forgery. Why?
After election, I think it isn’t a good idea to pursue, because, if it is proven that he was born outside the U.S., it may very likely NOT lead to his impeachment, but rather to a change in the law. That would be a bad thing.
But I don’t think people are “crazy” because they disagree with me. I can understand what motivates them.
For the public to wonder if a man, — one who spent his early childhood outside the U.S., whose mother traveled in and out of the States and whose father spent only a short amount of time in the U.S., whose grandmother has made remarks about his being born in Kenya — for the public to want proof of U.S. birth under these circumstances — even more so for a President whose plan is to “fundamentally change” America, because, except regarding the odd occasion here and there, he unabashedly never liked it the way it was, etc., etc. — is in no way “nuts.” On the contrary, it’s nuts to call them nuts.
And so why doesn’t Obama just put an end to all this by giving Hawaii permission to release the original documents? Can’t help but wonder.
There are many holes in Obama’s resume. In fact, this is unacceptable for a President. This is the most powerful job in our nation — and the world. We absolutely have every right to know everything about him — his birth, his family and upbringing, his political and ideological views, his habits, his achievements, his failures, his character — his associations and their effect on him. That’s the deal a politician makes, especially when he runs for President — goodbye to privacy.
Since when do “Associations” not count — for anyone — much less a Presidential Candidate? And further when almost every one of those “associations” was with people of Anti-American sentiments? Why would a man running for President have gravitated almost exclusively to persons of those leanings? Why would they have gravitated to him? Can anyone say these are unreasonable questions? If some feel it is unreasonable, then who are the “mad” ones?
Why have we not been allowed to read his writings while at University? Why are we not allowed to know even his grades? Or how he paid for his tuition — and who recommended him for entry to Harvard?
People believe they are “entitled” to “know” (ugh!) every detail of the sex lives of the likes of Tiger Woods and his wife and lovers, and any celebrity — but not entitled to know what the future President wrote as a young man — what his grades were — or to contemplate the meaning of his past associations?
What was on the video of the party at which Obama was a guest and speaker — Rashid Kalidi’s party — that the L.A. Times decided to keep it hidden from the public? Surely, if there was nothing of interest there, it wouldn’t have been suppressed. If it was kept hidden, there must have been something damaging there.
For me, personally, these are actually tired old questions. I’m much more appalled at the damaging things the man is currently doing to this country, and giving thought to what needs to be done to disempower him in 2010 and kick him out in 2012.
But the liberals and some conservatives whose approach to this — of ridiculing and demeaning those who mistrust the past record of the President — shows that they are themselves ridiculous — and rather mindless to boot.
45. Coral
Obama was NOT elected Leader of the Free World; he was elected President of the United States. Where does it say in the Constitution that U.S. Presidents shall lead the free world?
You are all missing the point. Her statement and follow-up statement on Facebook are all about the voters, or the people, who have the right to ask whatever they want of the people asking to lead them. This had nothing to do with Sarah and “birthers” but rather to the broader point that “we the people” can ask and should ask any/all pertinent questions of our elected or soon to be elected officials.
Samson: you use an incredibly clumsy argument against Palin. Have you examined the credentials of the person occupying the WH? Did you even think about what you wrote? Damn! The stupidity of the left is absolutely astounding. You people have no shame. As far as Palin in he media: it’s because of buttheads like you trying to tell everyone how irrelevant she is.
Commuter, you seem to have difficulty understanding that Ozero could come up with his original, long form certificate in an instant if he wanted.
For a person who spent several years living as a child in Indonesia (part of the time in a Madrassah), having a father who was Kenyan…logic dictates he would accommodate those who might have questions about his background.
There is no question about the Federal Gov’t standardizing certificates, or any other such nonsense you have mentioned. The only question is why can he not call the State of Hawaii and have them produce his long form certificate?
The public had/has questions, particularly when foreign ties are in the mix. Should a Presidential candidate not provide such a basic answer?
I note that in the statement the author refers to by the Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, they only say that the State has a birth certificate on record. Not that the birth certificate was actually issued by the State of Hawaii. Nowhere does anyone say where or when Obama was acutually born. Why is this such a huge “State Secret”. Also, any birth certificate must have an attending physician. Is Obama ashamed of the doctor who brought him into this world? All I have seen so far is a Certificate of Live Birth, which is NOT the same thing.
I think the public, rightfully, is still making it an issue. I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t know if I would have to bother to make it an issue ’cause I think there are enough members of the electorate who still want answers.
The American public is well within its rights to ask their President to make public certain documents. SP reiterates this, but I don’t see it as her actually “endorsing” the issue surrounding BO’s birth.
1) No US President to date has had BO’s unique upbringing where their citizenship is questionable.
2) We know much about other Presidents life, like that W had a C average, yet we have a sitting President spending nearly a million dollars in legal fees to hide any past records.
That doesn’t bother you or strike you as at least a little odd?
Rick Moran:
Your obsession with painting Sarah Palin as something she is not is almost beyond the pale; you seem to have a negative opinion, rather than rational thought of who she is, and what she stand for. Sarah’s has more integrity you will ever have; she would never stigmatise you, and demonise you, as you do her.
So, rather than trashing Sarah, look into the mirror, and think before you shoot off your mouth; your argument is lame, and cheap!
Palin (and Limbaugh for that matter) thrives on people hating her. It plays into her being a victim. Some fighter alright — she fights for her right to be stupid, to say whatever she wants, whenever she wants. I can appreciate Rick’s dilemma, because the ideal way to treat a puffball celebrity who’s aggressively stupid is to ignore her.
It’s ultimately self-defeating, so let it play itself out, I say. Go Sarah! Prattle, baby, prattle!
AQUA and Josh B.-
Amen! Not all of us missed the point…
And those dismissing Sarah as not having one are just fools…
Rick?
Ransom, you are a retard.
I am not really sure what you are trying to get across in this article about Sarah Palin and I read the whole thing but it seems to me that you are threatened by her and are very immature. I do not think people are as concerned about trigs birthcerticate as they are Obama’s. That is a qualification to run for president. As misplaced as he was in his life who knows for sure where he was born.
sgtgizmo – Ignoring the fact that there is no credible evidence that such an Indonesian adoption took place, there are three bits of information you might not have:
1) Under US law, both current and at the time, a US citizen who is a minor cannot renounce their US citizenship or have it renounced for them. So there is no way under US law that Obama could have lost his US citizenship as a child.
2) Under Indonesian law at the time (#62/1958) an adoptive child has to be under the age of five in order to be granted Indonesian citizenship, and it cannot be granted if it results in dual-citizenship. Obama was over the age limit when his mother married Lolo Soetoro, and due to US law prohibiting the renouncing of a minor’s citizenship, could not under Indonesian law be granted Indonesian citizenship.
3) Several people have claimed that Obama’s name post adoption is “Barry Soetoro”. Indonesia is a mostly Islamic country, and the Islamic guidelines on adoption say that a child NEVER takes on the name of the adoptive parent. (It’s treated as more of a fosterage situation than what westerners would call an “adoption”. The adopted child is raised as a part of the family, but not as a member of the family. Key difference. If such an adoption took place, Obama’s last name would STILL be “Obama”.
AQUA – There is no credible proof that the COLB posted on line (and later checked by “FactCheck” is a forgery. The forgery claims come from two anonymous internet “experts”, namely “Polarik” and “TechDude”, and later an anonymous internet geneologist called “Steve Cee” None of them have provided any evidence of the background and training they claim, neither have provided even proof of their real names. In light of this, their claims are hardly credible. There is more credible and verified evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, than there is regarding the training, background, and qualifications that “Polarik”, “TechDude”, and “Steve Cee” claim to have.
Sandra Lines did submit an opinion on this matter, but only to say in her expert opinion that one could not tell from an on-line picture if the document was real or a forgery, (remember, “Polarik”, “TechDude”, and “Steve Cee” all made their claims of forgery based on looking at the on-line document rather than the physical document). In this, Lines repeated what Dr. Neil Krawetz said when he refuted the claims of “Polarik” and “TechDude” in the summer and fall of 2008.
Wow, the sentiment expressed by the majority of the posters here will ensure that the GOP is a fringe party for years to come. The birthers, and those defending the birthers, are focused on the wrong issue and make all of the GOP look like fools. Its the GOP version of “Bush stole the election in 2000″. Some commenters on this board are suggesting the Moran should be purged or that he’s a secret Democrat. Those commenters are absolute fools, and I completely disagree with them. But I don’t want them purged, we need their votes to stop Obama’s agenda. They should feel the same about abour Moran. And do the birthers really want President Biden? Or President Pelosi? Focus on Obama’s policies, words and deeds and not his birth certificate.
And Palin’s comments on the topic are embarassing. I guess her handlers and writers weren’t there to script her answer like they do her Facebook articles and her book. Those writers are from a publication I like, but its very elitist, inside the Beltway — Weekly Standard. So she’s an anti-DC figure who’s major publications are written by the ultimate insiders.
There’s far too much fabric here for this to be a doily.
She is blowing the dog whistle of racial politics very loudly here.
As a Black conservative, I am saddened to see her promote racialist views. I hope she provides greater clarification; she has done a disservice to all children of immigrants.
The GOP is losing me to the far right fringe more and more. They must distance themselves from Palin if they want any chance of regaining their standing as colorblind public servants, a la Ronald Reagan.
Really correcting the record is whining good to know that. She happens to have important things to say about energy, defense, tax policy, immigration, which was the bulk of that interview, Yet the media either distort or deliberately lie about her background, her accomplishments, et al.
Lotta paranoia here. Too many people not taking their meds.
WE ‘birthers’ will have the last laugh. Just like the AGW skeptics are doing now. When Biden is POTUS and the Usurper is practicing his perp walk and hoping he gets Slobo as a cell mate, socialists like Moran will still be in denial.
The fact is that Obama has 2 (TWO) birth certificates floating around the internet. One from Hawaii, one from Kenya.
Logic tells us that there are two (2) possibilities there. Either one of them is a forgery or both of them are forgeries. We know the one from Hawaii is a forgery, since it has been examined by many experts and found to have been photoshopped.
It is very strange that Berry would spend almost a million dollars in legal fees to avoid giving the media permission to examine his birth certificate. Especially since he controls the media.
What’s up with that?
9. RobaWho has a good point, that there is so much about Obama’s past that is not open.
No one keeps their own original record. That’s kept by the appropriate department in the state in question. When you need either the short or long forms, you contact the department of records, and ask for it; the short form is usually just typed up, stamped, and sent off; the long form is usually a photostat of the original – which is why it is white on black – which is then stamped. (I’ve had to use both). The images linked above to WND demonstrate what should be available; the fact that Obama chooses not to provide it is curious.
Some of you people are just plain stupid. She says only that the citizens have the right to ask anything that free citizens want to ask. She does not endorse any conspiracy or group. She says that she made her son’s BC available to shut up the nut jobs. She does not say a thing about Obama showing his BC to anyone. Moran did this to get the hit credit he so sorely lacks on a regular bases. The man cannot be this stupid. As far as the dim bulb above who mentioned Regan and Thatcher being in a different class she/he must not be very old or it would know that both were vilified by their own parties and fought to reach the people by going over the heads of their party leaders. Sound familiar?
Please Mr. Moran—
Palin is perfectly right that any question posed by any of the electorate is a legitimate question. It may be a stupid question, but it is legitimate. And if it truly is a stupid question it can easily be answered, and then it is done.
In my own opinion (and its just that, an opinion, not a pronouncement of fact) Obama is a “natural born citizen.” But this refusal to produce the actual “long version” of the birth certificate is rather weird. Why not do it and end all doubt? Why criticize people who want it revealed as paranoid idiots when producing it would cure all doubts?
Of course there are competing theories, one of which holds that Obama applied for a scholarship that was only open to non-US citizens, in which case he would have needed some sort of documentation to prove it. In other words, fraud. I’m not saying its true, but it would account for much of the obfuscation here.
And I’m sorry, but it seems that your primary issue with Sarah Palin is that she doesn’t have a pedigree, just a record of accomplishment. She’s not from a politically connected family nor did she go to an Ivy League college where she could socially connect with such people. I don’t see that as a bug, I see that as a feature.
I love it. Like a swarm of angry bees, the birthers descend on Rick’s all too sane post. Keep on buzzing, wingnuts! If you guys keep pulling your party deeper into this pit of small-minded paranoid delusion, unemployment could hit 30% next year and the Democrats will maintain if not expand their congressional majorities. BUZZZZ!!!!
PatGund – My point was, that there a lot of questions about more than just his birth certificate. When Bush was running for election, so much was made about his Guard record and whether George “got out” of going to Vietnam. The press would not leave it alone until one of their own promulgated a forged document. Which, if it was genuine, would not have made Bush ineligible to be Pres.
I read your response, maybe you can help me on one point. Did a child in the 60′s in Indonesia have to be an Indonesian citizen to attend public Muslim school?
PatGund, Ok, so what is the big deal keeping it locked up? Really, Why can’t it be released for the public to see? That is the true, long form birth certificate, Attending physician and all. Or are you saying the colb is the long form and that Hawaii does not document time and date of birth and the attending physician?
Moran, read your Constitution and learn that a specific requirement to run for President is that you be a natural born citizen of the United States. Obama has never shown that he was born in the United States. I believe that if this issue was pressed, even before Obama became the front runner for the Democrat nomination, it would have resulted in an unnecessary Constitutional crisis during an election year. On the political level, the Democrats would have screached that the Republicans would do anything to keep a black man out of the White House, and this would have resounded with the public. So the McCain camp wisely decided the matter was not worth pursuing. Other folks obviously don’t share my opinion and this was and still is an issue for them. You can call them a kook fringe, if you want, but I believe they have a right to ask that this Constitutional question be resolved. Now that the election is over and Obama won, the Democrats can no longer level this charge against all who question Boobily’s origins. I think you underestimate Sarah Palin’s grasp of the American political system and you overestimate your own.
I suggest that Moran, (sometimes his name deserves a vowel other than “a”), should have stuck to his opening gut feeling and eschewed SP as a topic – hope he does so in the future, although, to protect my own gut, I hardly read this or any of material.
Birthers = Republican remains fring party.
Birthers will ensure the re-election of Obama and the Dem majorities.
Thanks a lot you IDIOTS!
Great post and great comments.
This is one part of teabaggery that I find all too amusing. The old circular firing squad.
Have at it folks.
I for one would still like to see the birth certificate. Do you think I’ll be swayed by comments from someone named Rick Moron?
Coral #45
I have heard of a peanut farmer who became a president, and I have heard of a president, who was not even that.
I think you underestimate Sarah Palin’s grasp of the American political system and you overestimate your own.
89. Jim Baker:
You have got to be kidding. Palin clearly didn’t even know the duties of the office she was running for.
Can’t you find anyone with Palin’s views who isn’t an ignorant fool? I know it’s tough because her views are based on complete ignorance. But please try. Palin is an embarrassment to our great country.
If people start asking questions about Obama, perhaps they’ll ask why absolutely no one remembers him at Columbia College. No one, including his graduating class in his major.
Anyone who knows of a person who remembers Obama? People have been asking for months and so far, nada.
Lots of questions to be asked, Mr. Moran. You want to obsess over Sarah Palin instead of the questions she asking. That’s just not going to work any more.
The Hawaii Department of Health’s statement is what is known as a “negative pregnant”. Negative pregnant statements always leave critical details unanswered. Most people are easily taken in by statements containing negative pregnants. Most journalists, these days, are also taken in by negative pregnants. Negative pregnants are the stock and trade of politicians, diplomats, and sociopaths.
Trial lawyers, however, know when faced with a negative pregnant answer that they must ask more questions to nail the witness down on every factual point underlying the statement. Hence, the lingering doubt and fuel for the conspiratorial fire remains regarding whether the underlying or “original” birth certificate on file in accordance with Hawaiian statutes is a birth certificate issued by a Hawaiian doctor or a Kenyan doctor.
For governor Palin to simply point this out is not nugatory.
Rick Moran is a conservative in the same way that Andrew Sullivan claims to be one. By the way, who is Rick Moran and why should we care about his unhinged rantings?
sgtgizmo – There is no credible evidence I have been able to find to support the claim that Indonesia limited school attendance to citizens-only during the late 60′s – early 70′s. I have seen reports from people who were expats living in Indonesia at the time that have stated there was no ban.
Based on the information I have been able to find, I’m forced to conclude that there was no ban on school attendance by non-Indonesians during that time period.
TJ Ronn – If you were born in Hawaii and requested a copy of your birth certificate today, what the Department of Health for that state would send you, would be a Certificate of Live Birth simular to what Obama has shown. Date of birth is shown on the COLB. The Department of Health for the State of Hawaii no longer provides long-form birth certificates. Nor does the Department of Hawaiian Homelands require them to prove native-Hawaiian ancestry.
I have a Certificate of Live Birth from the state I was born in. It doesn’t have the doctor information either, and it was accepted as proof of birth when I applied for a passport.
We birthers will have the last laugh. Just like the AGW deniers are doing now. Eventually, Berry will have to produce a real birth certificate, if only to defend the legislation he has already signed.
You would think that socialists such as Moran would want him to cooperate and release his BC.
After all, if it turns out he Was born in Kenya, like his birth certificate says, then all the legislation he has signed, all the hard work the left has put in, is null and void. Like it never happened.
Considering what the left has at stake, one would think that they would be leading the pack to establish Berry’s legal standing to be POTUS.
Right now there are two(2) birth certificates on the web. Logically, one must conclude that either one or both of them are forgeries. Since we know that the Hawaii BC has been photoshopped, that leaves the Kenya one as the most likely valid BC.
You can pretend this issue will go away, but it won’t.
Some kool-aid drinking moonbat thinks that this administration will survive a 30% unemployment rate. Or that the usurper will be able to blame Bush. Guess again.
The first thing the Republicans will do after they take back Congress in 2010 is send the FBI over to get Obama’s BC. If they can’t find it, he gets impeached. If there was a birth certificate for them to find, we wouldn’t be having this conversation . Berry would not have spent almost a million dollars in legal fees fighting disclosure.
So stick your head in the sand. Quaff some more kool-aid. Bark at the moon a while longer. Exposure as a fraud can be delayed, not prevented.
That’s what Sarah herself has said:
http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/stupid-conspiracies/188707498434
Great girl!
I remember when Obama was elected. Many of us were so happy that the neo cons had finally been defeated, we forgot what might be next. Same goes for Sarah. Your so happy that she is the one Republican that survives 2008, but then you begin to realize, hey, this is really about finding someone ..for the long term. And I think the conservatives will…someday find their long term leader….don.t you?
“…people talk about that Trig isn’t my real son. And a lot of people say, “Well you need to produce his birth certificate! You need to prove that he’s your kid!” Which we have done. But yeah, so maybe we could reverse that and use the same [unintelligible]-type thinking on them.”
Context please. She said if you were stupid enough to question Trig’s real parent, and she had to produce Trig’s birth certificate; why didn’t people apply the same standard to Obama’s birth certificate. She was not a birther, she was pissed with the media’s double standard.
In earlier answers, she didn’t question Obama’s birth, but his associations.
Please, don’t twist her words to fit your obvious loathing for her. There are a lot to criticize her. I saw her on O’Reiley, and wasn’t impressed with her answers. But to twist her words?
She didn’t say what any rational person on the right or left believes: that questions about the president’s birth have been settled by the state of Hawaii, that only a very small group of citizens are even concerned about the issue,
Good God, Mr. Moran, if you say you’re the final authority on what ‘any rational person’ thinks, and are asserting that the State of Hawaii has ‘settled’ all questions on the President’s birth while hiding the actual certificate, there’s very little reason to place much confidence in anything else you are trying to tell us. Particularly such tripe as By her stupidity, she is now going to force every GOP candidate… AND ALSO such tripe as People are rightly skewering her for giving aid and comfort to the birther movement by endorsing the idea of its legitimacy.
The ‘birther movement’ is smoke and vapor, signifying nothing important. Assigning it any weight at all in factual debates is beyond trivial. There will always be unanswered questions, and it’s not fatal to notice them – particularly when official documents and historical records are sequestered, as the birth certificate and, far more importantly, Obama’s whole school and ‘community organizing’ history demonstrate.
In fact, the whole political correctness scam is centered around subjects that one is not allowed to notice. I’d like to know that the author of the supposedly ‘right wing’ nut house is properly skeptical of political correctness, and does not make misguided devotion to it the foundation of an argument against the very person of Sarah Palin.
Birthers wake UP! It’s not Obama that’s the” total” birth issue here it’s his “father”…..
I’m sorry but Pres. Obama does not qualify for the presidency because to be a “natural born citizen”
both your “Father and Mother” have to be “citizens” of the “United States of America”, His father is not case closed. Liberals again YOU! Lose! Ya just can’t seem to understand reality… Or the Constitution. Oh! and Good luck with that Polar Bear “problem”.
Very funny.
In the middle of a REAL revolution that is destroying America’s Freedom, America’s economy, and America’s independence…someone finds that the important theme to be debated is if Palin can or not do unto others what has been done to her.
The thought policing is well underway.
And the author calls her stupid.
This is the hope and change that the communists are bringing to America.
Stalinism and sexism.
Congrats.
Re: “Why? The certificate contains NO MENTION of attending physician, hospital, etc.”
The Certification of Live Birth is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and it is the only one that Hawaii sends out. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)
That being the case, Obama cannot show the original birth certificate with the attending physician because he does not have it. He asked Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007, and Hawaii sent him the COLB. To be sure, there is an original birth certificate in the file, but Hawaii will not send it out. To change this situation, it is necessary to convince Hawaii to change its rules, but Obama cannot send it because he does not have it.
Still, the COLB shows that Obama was born in Hawaii, and the facts on it were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.htmlfacts )
Re: “to be a “natural born citizen”
both your “Father and Mother” have to be “citizens” of the “United States of America”
Guess what? That is wrong. The original meaning of Natural Born, the one that applies to Obama, is simply “born in the country.” The word Naturalize comes from Natural Born. It means to make someone who is not born in the country like someone who was born in the country, not like someone with two citizen parents.
such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:
“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)
Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)
And that is why
Don’t get on Ron, people, he’s a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, so he’s way beyond cool. He’s also from Chicago, so he’s worldly, too.
Why doesn’t RICK MORAN release his real birth certificate ?? Because it will show that he is going by another name. His real name is RICK MORON.
Rick Moran = MSM
No one made you write this but yourself. You have an agenda here.
This woman is an absolute disaster. I expect to see her soon with a shaved head swinging an umbrella at John McCain’s jet. Orly Palin. Wonderful, isn’t it? Crank it up, birthers. Raise your ire! Shout your suspicions! Scream your accusations! Ignore Ensign.
Hail Rush, Go Sarah.
If there are two (2) things that send the moonbats flapping around and howling, it’s Sara and Obama not being a natural born citizen.
“My take on it is that Obama is a US citizen, but he has declined to release a copy of the original for one or both of the following reasons.”
Strawman alert! Obama IS a US Citizen. That IS NOT the issue and has nothing to do with anything. It’s a red herring.
It is a constitutional requirement that POTUS be a “natural born” citizen, not just a citizen. That is because the founders were worried about some rich European buying the Presidency and engineering a coup. Instead we got a Muslim with a shady past. The moonbats can’t conceptualize the fact that if born a Muslim, you stay a Muslim. No choice in the matter. If you deny Allah or convert to some other religion, you become an apostate Muslim. But still a Muslim.
Somebody has a serious drug problem;
“unemployment could hit 30% next year and the Democrats will maintain if not expand their congressional majorities. BUZZZZ!!!!”
At 15% Congress will flip. Both houses. At 10%, the House of Representatives flips and the Donks drop several seats, Dirty Harry being one.
The Birth certificate issue is mainly a side show. An ace in the hole, if you will. Being a political issue that very few voters understand ( I’ll bet 75% of voters don’t know there is an age requirement for the President) it won’t affect any election. What it effects is the legislation signed by the President. For Legislation to go into affect, a bill has to passed out of BOTH houses of congress, then signed by the President. If POTUS doesn’t sign the bill, it doesn’t go into affect. This is called a pocket veto.
Nobody knows what happens when POTUS is not authorized to sign the bill.
forgery
n. 1) the crime of creating a false document, altering a document, or writing a false signature for the illegal benefit of the person making the forgery. This includes improperly filling in a blank document, like an automobile purchase contract, over a buyer’s signature, with the terms different from those agreed. It does not include such innocent representation as a staff member autographing photos of politicians or movie stars. While similar to forgery, counterfeiting refers to the creation of phoney money, stock certificates or bonds which are negotiable for cash. 2) a document or signature falsely created or altered.
A President can be impeached for forgery. Especially if he knew he wasn’t authorized to sign the document.
If the President has already been voted out of office, then the Courts would have to rule on any bills he signed, I think.
This is all brand new stuff, which is why nobody on either side wants to touch it.
Politicians are control freaks, regardless of brand name. Since there is no way anyone can control this issue, everybody is hoping it goes away. It won’t. I’m surprised one of the GM guys fired by Berry hasn’t taken him to court.
PS,the governor of Hawaii is a stanch Democrat and would lie cheat steal or anything else to protect the local boy made good. What she isn’t is a forensics document examiner. Nor is anyone on her staff. There are some good ones working for the police department in Honolulu. They haven’t been allowed anywhere near the Birth Certificate.
I think that you are over reacting in a big way here. I did not hear the interview, but from the snippet I do not think that the answer really mainstreams the birthers in any way, other than to validate that they are asking for proof. While I personally believe he was born in Hawaii, and that the Certificate of Live Birth would prove such. I also believe that it is a useful distraction for this administration, so they will never voluntarily release it, just as they have refused to release academic records.
There are three criteria for one to be elected President, Not less than 35 years of age, natural born Citizen, and resident for the last 14 years. It is entirely appropriate for members of the electorate to ask for proof when one or more of these qualifications are in question, as had been done concerning Senator McCain.
GregGS, I am sorry, but the generally accepted interpretation (no Supreme Court determination on this yet) for a natural born Citizen is born on US soil or born of US Citizens and attested to by US consular office or embassy. So the point that his Father was Kenyan does not come into play unless he was born outside of the US. Hawaii was a State, therefore US soil.
73. Mr. Lucky:
Have they arrived yet? The “helpers?” If so you’re likely feeling a bit woozy. Fear not. It’s just their way of calming you down before they pace you on the gurney. I’m sure if you ask nicely they’ll let you take your baster. (Just don’t load it within their eyesight. They might write up a negative report, and you don’t want that when arrive at “The Farm.” Nice of them to give it such a nice name, don’t you think?)
Ace puts the whole thing in persepctive. RINO’s like Moran, David Frum, et. al. won’t get it but then who cares.
http://minx.cc/?post=295474
Wow, Palin did a great job drawing out the birthers here. We could have video footage of Obama being born on a Hawaiian beach with the governor of Hawaii as a midwife, and you guys would squeal about how that doesn’t prove anything.
By birther reasoning, Palin herself MUST be desperately hiding the truth by refusing to release Trig’s birth certificate. I realize she claimed in this radio interview that she did release it, but naturally, that is a lie. (Surprise!) As the NYT and other news organizations duly reported on Nov. 4, her doctor released a two-page letter saying merely that she was healthy and had had five children. Sure, she told Brian Williams she’d release her records, but she didn’t. She has NEVER produced a birth certificate. Look it up. Try to prove she did. You can’t. If you’re outraged that Obama never produced anything but a doctor’s letter either, then surely you’re upset about her dissembling and cover-up, too.
So, again using your reasoning, the burden of proof is clearly on her to prove that Trig is her child, since we all have the right to ask questions, and clearly if she’s willing to lie about this, she must be hiding something!!! This has nothing to do with her privacy or her unwillingness to pander to conspiracy freaks…she owes this to us!!!!
She will also be doing us a huge favor when she clears up HER past associations with the Alaska Independent Party, a well-known secessionist group up here, because despite her lie to the McCain campaign, Todd certainly could not have “accidentally” checked that box when he registered to vote.
What does she have to hide???? WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!1! She could so easily release Trig’s certificate and clear all this up! I mean, why is her lawyer involved if it’s all aboveboard?
Just, you know, asking questions.
Ace puts it in perspective. Clearly RINOs like Moran, David Frum, et. al. won’t hget it but then that’s what makes them RINOs.
Read what Ace says here.
http://minx.cc/?post=295474
Mr. Moran, are you truly ignorant of the fact that your objections to Sarah Palin are exactly what conservatives object to in President Obama. By your very indignation you condemn President Obama. Indeed President Obama fits your objections by an order of magnitude greater than any politition to even approach the Oval Office.
I think Palin is a left-wing problem; not so much for the right. She makes the left-wing look unhinged and we simpletons on the right truly enjoy lefty meltdowns and self-righteous indignation. So, it kind of tickles us when they talk about her.
Personally, I don’t care if Obama is a citizen. I hope he’s ousted based on his atrocious presidency, not on some technicality.
Barry was not vetted.
No long form BC, no grammar school records, no college applications or transcripts, no selective service records, no passport records.
2 auto-biographies to create an illusion.
Associates with Frank Davis Marshall, Khalid Mansour, Reverend Wright, Louis Farakhan, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayers and wife Bernadine Dorn.
Lame street media was silent and complicit.
Natural born citizen = born on US soil of 2 US citizens.
PatGund, lots of twisting in the wind….Bottom line, there is no rational reason why the long form bc cannot be released other than he is hiding something. This just adds to all the other curiosities (high school records, college records, passport records, IL Senate records etc). All you really are supporting is an empty suit with a golden tongue.
YOU have mainstreamed a friend of terrorists, who sat in a church of a marxist black-supremacist for twenty years, and now this person is in the White House and has an administration formed by commies, jihadists, racists.
WHAT ABOUT THAT AS LEFT-WING PARANOIACS ?
WHAT NEXT ? POL POT AS SAINT IN YOUR CHURCH ?
ADORATION OF THE (omitted) OF FIDEL CASTRO ?
“That being the case, Obama cannot show the original birth certificate with the attending physician because he does not have it. He asked Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007, and Hawaii sent him the COLB. To be sure, there is an original birth certificate in the file, but Hawaii will not send it out.”
Another red herring, strawman argument.
NO ONE wants their very own copy of the alleged COLB. What is wanted is for the governor of Hawaii to release the document for public examination by forensic document examiners.
ALL she ( the Governor) needs to do that is either permission from Berry or a court order from a federal court. Berry not only won’t give his permission, he has spent almost a nillion dollars fighting against a court order.
WHY?
If everything is above board, why spend a small fortune hiding something? ‘splain me that, Lucy.
As I keep pointing out and the socialists don’t seem to understand. ALL, as in EVERYTHING, the Usurper has signed will vanish if he isn’t legally qualified to be President. EVERYTHING. So with the left controlling Congress it would be smarter for the Democrats to force Berry to allow forensic documents examiners to have a go at his COLB. The Original, in the vault one. If Berry is a fraud, then Joe takes over and the bills are re-signed by a legitimate President. If Berry is legit, then we get on down the road.
Seems simple to me. I just wonder why the left refuses to address this issue. All guys like Moran and his buds do is try cheap tricks to deflect the issue and postpone the day of reckoning. Democrats WILL NOT hold Congress and the White House forever.
As soon as they lose one or the other, the Birth certificate will become an issue.
That is because of the Supreme Court. Stoopidmyere is NOT a USSC justice if the Usurper wasen’t legal to sign her papers. So that would mean the left right split (now 4-5) would become 3-6 as soon as the Republicans took control. THAT is important. Considering the 2 oldest members of the USSC are in their 80′s (90′s?) it offers conservatives a chance to produce a Supreme court with only 1 liberal on it that would go the next 20 years or so with the same members.
So, yes, go ahead, drink your kool-aid and bark at the moon. Pretend there is nothing wrong with Obama’s credentials. Go ahead, make my day punk!
Somethin’ smells…it costs ten bucks to release the long-term form…and he won’t do it.
At this point ya gotta wonder why.
Not one check can be made to verify any person’s eligibility to be the President of The United States of America. The courts cannot, the states cannot, congress cannot, citizens cannot. We have to take the person’s word that they are eligible. There is not one single check in place to verify the very exacting statement in the Constitution of the United States of America about the legal eligibility that must be met to be the President of the United States of America?
Do we not owe it to our citizens to have in place to verifiable check on the validity of a candidate’s eligibility to hold the office? Whether we think Obama is eligible or not, his lack of transparency has made it abundantly clear that there should be put in place a check that verifies eligibility, and that check must be transparent and available to each and every single citizen of this country who requests the proof. That proof must include not only the original documentation of birth, but also any and all passports and pages of each.
116. Another Alaskan: Those who denied Sarah Palin was Trig’s mother, insinuated that she claimed her daughter’s baby to cover for her unmarried daughter. It’ll be a miracle for her daughter to give birth in April, then another baby a couple of months later. Unless you believed she was covering up for Piper.
Re: “giving Hawaii permission to release the original documents? ”
He cannot give Hawaii permissin to release something that Hawaii never releases. It releases only the short-form Certification of Live Birth, which is what Obama posted.
Hawaii HAS the original, but its current rules are not to release copies of it. Obama could ask them to change the rules, but then so could anyone.
In any case, the official birth certificate shows that Obama was born in Hawaii, and the facts on it were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii.
Just when we thought we were finished reading stupid articles by Rick Moron about Sarah Palin, he pulls us back in.
Rick,
I could not care less about Obama’s birth certificate, and I don’t like Sarah Palin all that much. But, by calling her stupid, you say more about your own intellectual prowess than hers. What she’s done may not be good for the GOP or her political career (which I’m not sure she really wants), but your name calling will not make anybody change their mind. It is, using your own language, “wacky”. So, I think you should take the plank out of your own eye before you can hope to be taken half as seriously as Ms. Palin.
Obviously, the OP hears what he wants to hear.
Rick Moran is sounding more like Andrew Sullivan.
THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE “MAINSTREAMED” INSTEAD:
Obama church published
Hamas terror manifesto
Compares charter calling for murder
of Jews to Declaration of Independence
Posted: March 20, 2008
12:45 pm Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzook
JERUSALEM – Sen. Barack Obama’s Chicago church reprinted a manifesto by Hamas that defended terrorism as legitimate resistance, refused to recognize the right of Israel to exist and compared the terror group’s official charter – which calls for the murder of Jews – to America’s Declaration of Independence.
The Hamas piece was published on the “Pastor’s Page” of the Trinity United Church of Christ newsletter reserved for Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., whose anti-American, anti-Israel remarks landed Obama in hot water, prompting the presidential candidate to deliver a major race speech earlier this week.
Hamas, responsible for scores of shootings, suicide bombings and rocket launchings against civilian population centers, is listed as a terrorist group by the U.S. State Department.
John “birther” Samford: “PS,the governor of Hawaii is a stanch Democrat and would lie cheat steal or anything else to protect the local boy made good.”
- – - – -
From her bio: Governor Lingle is the sixth elected Governor of Hawai‘i. She is the first mayor, first woman and first person of Jewish ancestry to be Governor. She is also *** the first Republican to lead the Aloha State in more than 40 years ***.
So, the Government of Hawaii, led by a Republican, says President Obama’s Birth Certificate is legitimate. The Republican Presidential Candidate hasn’t challenged that assertion. The Republican Senators and House Members at the Congressional certification of the Electoral Votes didn’t challenge that assertion. The Republican Vice President who presided over the certification hasn’t challenged that assertion. Good thing for the GOP you’re so much smarter than they are.
nb – as for why President Obama doesn’t simply “end the controversy”: maybe he’s decided that letting the loons fly freely is the best way to ensure political success in the future…
The birther hub-bub gains traction because we recognize that O is not one of us, and it is all too clear among a growing number of Americans that he intends to destroy this country, he and his commie cronies. (My friends believe he is a Muslim, and if anything, that story would indeed make for some worthy investigative journalism.)
The litany of O’s assaults on this nation have been catalogued by others, notably Victor Davis Hanson, so I don’t need to repeat it here. Sarah Palin’s comment reflects the deep, deep concern that patriotic citizens feel as they watch this imposter dismantle their nation — and as if grasping at straws, anything, to stop this runaway train, birthers latch on to what they instinctively know is true: he means us harm so get him in whatever possible, legal way we can. And it’s anger, too, at being constantly lied to.
Just as the Left cares little of the consequences so long as they WIN, patriots and birthers care less for the mess they may create than that the imposter and his handlers are made to pay for their arrogant usurpations. JMO.
Let me just add one more thing: 1776 ignited over far less than what we’ve endured these last 11 months.
While I agree that SP’s comment was pretty darn dumb (and who among us hasn’t had a few dumb moments!), I just wonder about one thing RM said. He conflates the far-right birther nuts with the far-left Trig-truther nuts. But there isn’t anyone on the far-right birther nut faction who has the kind of megaphone that Andrew Sullivan has with his blog on The Atlantic website, is there? When a birther has that kind of mainstream outlet, then maybe I’ll accept the “they’re all the same” argument.
Hee hee hee. If Obama’s smart, he won’t ever release his “long form” birth certificate, whatever that is, just so he can giggle at the inane hysteria of birthers every day. Oh, wait. Obama IS smart.
Frankly, my dears, I’d prefer an immigrant president born in Tehran who is able to locate, say, France on a map to a native-born, incurious, egomaniacal lunkhead like La Sarah. Have fun losing, chumps!
120. silence do good:
“Natural born citizen = born on US soil of 2 US citizens.”
This is why conservatives shouldn’t be allowed to vote. I think I’ll start a movement. Hmm, what to call it . . . CONSERVAPURGE – ridding the voting lists of raging lunatics.
Let’s decide this now ….
Threw Rick Moron off Pajamas and under the bus ….. or not?
John “birther” Samford – actually the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, is a member of the Republican party, not the Democratic party. She actually campaigned for McCain during the 2008 general election. So your claim that she’s a “Stanch Democrat” is, at best, false.
And, as I said upstream, I have yet to see any evidence backing up the claim that Obama has spent millions hiding this, when in fact the vast majority of the birther cases have been against state and federal officials, and NOT Obama directly. If you have proof of the amount, I’d like to see it.
BTW, you are aware that McCain also fought in court to prevent his birth certificate from being released, right? Google Robinson v Bowen, 3:2008cv03836, California Northern District Federal Court
TJ Ronn – My cynicism is due to how many times the goalposts have been moved. In summer of 2008, there were demands that Obama show his birth certificate due to the rumor that his middle name is “Mohammed”. When the birth certificate (again, a legal document) was scanned and a copy of the graphic file from that scan was posted on his website, the rumour got changed to “forgery”. When “FactCheck” went to see the physical document, the meme became “well, they’re in the tank for Obama”. When the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii and the REPUBLICAN Department of Health director confirmed they hold his original birth certificate and that the image posted contained the same data as in their records, the meme then became “show us the long form then!”. At this point, a rational human being would be forced to conclude that no amount of evidence is going to convince those doubters otherwise.
To introduce another perspective: conservatives should learn from the Left here. Back in 2003-5, I was sure that leftist obsessions over the 2000 election and crazy demonizing of Bush would make them unelectable. Obviously I was wrong, and it was because I failed to take into account how many levels there are to politics now, and that the different levels don’t need to mesh. It seems to me that each political party needs those believe the worst about their opponents, who seek to prove the worst, who cherry pick all evidence supporting the worst, and publicize the worst with all their might. This is a no lose situation: if other supporting evidence fails to emerge, if events don’t turn the public against the leader in question, the “worst-believers” stay in the shadows and are ignored. “Mainstream” figures can claim they don’t know about all that, or that it’s not their priority, or that people are worried about that because it’s really a surrogate for other, more substantive concerns or growing mistrust, etc. Meanwhile, if events conspire to weaken the leader in question, then that other narrative that has been painstakingly constructed can do important political work contextualizing the other failings now evident to many others. Note that I am not talking about the truth or falsity of any claims, just the pragmatic political consequences–which is all that really worries Moran here anyway. Maybe the simplest way to put all this is that it’s ridiculous to be worried about keeping the “fringe” away from the “mainstream”–that boundary has been abolished by the Democrats, who learned that policing yourself is a waste of time. A large minority, much less majority, of Americans will never get too exercised about Obama’s birth certificate–but who knows how that issue might (as many posters here are suggesting) get connected to broader issues of Obama not being vetted, not being transparent, etc., as his agenda implodes. Palin has found one way of situating herself at a certain distance from the issue; other Republicans will find other ways, and why not just accept that everyone will say what they think about it and move on. The really vicious movement is that of the 9/11 “Truthers,” and that never seems to have hurt the Democrats–this is small change in comparison. Let whoever wants to start building the dossier for impeachment–maybe we’ll need it.
Hey Rick, why is this issue among all others verboten? I don’t care since the question is moot. But why must people who care shut up? Is this settled science? Must those who doubt TRUST the State of Hawaii? This is America, people can speculate and demand answers to what troubles them…at least for now.
138. PatGund:
Step right up, conservatives. Take on PatGund. Where is Pat wrong? Who can provide the evidence of “spending millions” that Pat is requesting? Who can deny, dispute anything Pat says?
crickets
Wow, you rabid, spinny-eyed, brain-dead, fascist-lite teabaggers really are as demented and insane as everyone says. And I thought they were exaggerating! You really are a stupid bunch of uneducated, narrow-minded racists, hillbillies, crackers and assshats! All of you are Archie Bunker, 21st Century edition! LMFAO!!!
Oh yeah, and Trig is DEFINITELY NOT Mooseface’s kids. In addition, all of the confused beauty queen’s REAL children should be named “Prop.”
Why is moron allowed to post on this stuff any more…the science is settled… yeah hows that global warming working out for you?
Any idiot knows that obama has hidden most of his life. He could release his birth cert but has failed to.
I have run threw most of the comments in this thread and see the same ill informed strawmen being tossed about… PatGund… I mean really have you bothered to research this topic at all…
The science is settle crowd that wants to believe in global warming or obama isn’t hiding his birth cert you go right on doing that… some of us what some facts and the law to be applied.
Disgusted with Moran. Get out of the party!
Palin is being inclusive to all those that have concerns, and are “fringed” in the media in defendind Obama and the republican party (and YOU TOO Moran) for political correctness.
No wonder the republican party is on the nose with most voters, twerp.
Save us your blathering Moran, you are irrelevant and non-inclusive.
Sarah, though a lady, knows that some parties need a turd dropped in teh punch bowl. Death Panel, anyone? Birth Certificate, anyone? Cap & Fraud, anyone? Barbarian Invasion, anyone?
Hook ‘em and hang ‘em, Sarah. I’ll bring the rope.
“Voters have every right to ask candidates for information if they so choose.”
Yes, they do, and there is nothing wrong with saying that they do.
Ms. Palin didn’t say anything wrong and…Rick Moran needs to take a chill pill.
Whether Moran likes it or not, people have every right to question wee lil Barry’s citizenship status, and they have every right not to believe what they’ve been told about it. Seems pretty silly to me…but they still have a right to do it.
Good news, everyone. Fred Barnes has just revealed the upcoming talking point re the economy vis a vis today’s job numbers. (Wow, hows that for pretentious sound-smart lingo!) Anyway, here’s what you have to memorize. As the economy continues to improve, you say, “It’s got nothing to do with Obama or his policies . . . Never underestimate the resiliency of the American economy!”
Got that? Good. The check’s in the mail. Later on we can shift credit over to the tea partiers. Forget about 2010. And 2012. You’re looking at 2014 at the earliest. I feel good. How about you?
Why does pajamasmedia.com allow Rick Moran to appear on their site.
It’s worse than that. He’s a PJM editor. Bad move, PJM.
She says only that the citizens have the right to ask anything that free citizens want to ask.
Exactly. Palin did not say she agrees with the birthers.
Someone said Obama can not be president because his father was not a citizen – where on earth do you get that from?
Personally, I’m far more interested in why Obama’s college records are under lock and key. The only reason I can think of for hiding his college transcript is that he wasn’t a great student – which would mean he got into law school solely on the basis of his skin color. Since a large part of his image rests on the idea that he is supposedly “brilliant,” bad grades would be embarrassing.
Look Rickeypoo…
I am a former military recruiter. So far, The PRESIDENT of the United States has not produced any birth verification document that would be accepted for military enlistment OR of birth verification of the sort that would be required for a security clearance. A Private could not join the Army with the documents Obama waves at us.
As stated elsewhere in this post – he could put the entire issue to bed in less than an hour for $15. His signature – a small check: issue done – critics laughed at!
There are only two possible answers: He chooses to keep this issue open for reasons I can’t imagine OR he can’t produce the document because it doesn’t exist.
He either can’t or won’t and either case presents reasonable questions that could cause reasonable people concern.
N & T: Oh, I have much better news than that.
Obama: 48% approve, 50% disapprove.
That isn’t from a Fox poll, or Rasmussen.
It’s today’s CNN poll results.
More wonderful news, N & T!
Nevadans aren’t warming up to Sen. Harry Reid, despite plenty of early advertising designed to boost his image, a new poll shows.
Just 38 percent of respondents said they had a favorable opinion of the Democratic Senate majority leader, the same percentage as in October and 1 point higher than in August.
The survey of 625 registered Nevada voters by Mason-Dixon Polling & Research suggests the promotional bombardment that Reid launched more than six weeks ago has yet to hit its target.
“I’d be worried,” said Michael Franz, an assistant professor at Bowdoin College in Brunswick, Maine, who studies political advertising. “I’d stop if I had aired ads for two or three weeks and it wasn’t moving the needle.”
Now, what were you saying, bunkie? Something about something Fred Barnes said on TV? Well, you hang on to that, cupcake. You have to take comfort in something after the week you’ve had, with your religion being exposed as a fraud and all.
JC39 & other zombies behold:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/04/dnc-chair-thank-goodness-these-corrosive-tea-partiers-are-destroying-the-gop/
The reality of the situation is the Tea Party people are the Americans of all stripes be it Republican, Independent, Democrat, etc al. Republicans are hardly a fringe party; however, their excesses over the years alienated the base as they moved further away from Conservativim. The pendulum is swinging back to conservatives after the radical Leftist Democrats have overplayed their hand.
Good to see some folks making the analogy of the wacko birthers vs. the now discredited AWG mongers. As an individual who actually works at the extreme edge of scientific technology, I dug into the AWG scam with an open mind in around 2006. Any idiot could look at the data (actually the missing data) and conclude that the whole thing was a monster pile of BS. The recent “hack” confirms my contention that it wasn’t a scam, but a fraud. Same goes for the Kenyan’s birth certificate. No one spends millions of dollars to suppress documentation relevant to a fundamental Constitutional requirement to serve as president unless there are serious factual issues with such document. There is no rational justification to do such. And not-with-standing Mr. Moran’s argument in this article, or the few punching at the periphery in the comments, they are decisively unconvincing… As were the AWG crowd.
What is our actual evidence about Obama’s birth? All we know is that Ms. Dunham gave Obama to her mother and told her to raise him as a grandchild. That is all we know.
If you have additional evidence, please present it.
No one has offered first-hand evidence that Obama was born to Ms. Dunham. No one has offered first-hand evidence that the Kenyan who says he is Obama’s father actually is. Yet this evidence should be trivially easy to find. Obama is not that old. Some people who were at the birth are probably still around.
If you have the evidence, please present it.
An honest man would have cleared this up before the public asked. So, why has Obama not cleared it up?
Even more lovely news, N & T!
From Rasmussen:
Overall, 46% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President’s performance. Fifty-four percent (54%) disapprove.
I could go on. And on and on. If bambi’s next 3 years go as swimmingly as his first one – nevermind Palin. The GOP could run my aunt Josie against him and win.
Have a nice night!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS it is a fair question. The president of the United States MUST be a citizen of said United States. ALL they have ever had to do is PRODUCE THE STUPID CERTIFICATE. How hard is that? I had to do it to enroll my children in school. My son had to do it to join the military. Both my husband and I had to do it to get passports. WHY does this sorry excuse for a human being not have to produce it to be president?
As usual libs pick the laws they like and ignore the rest. They have kept this story going by refusing to produce the certificate. Oh and the electorate does care, the MSM just doesn’t want to report it (just like climategate) so get off Sarah’s back. She didn’t ask you to write about her and as a private citizen she still has a right to her opinion, at least for the time being.
Of course it is early days yet. The emperor’s new clothes still appear new to most ignorant eyes.
The Constitution says that only “natural born citizens” are eligible to run for or become President. The Constitution does not say who should verify that all candidates are such natural born citizens, but it appears that the ultimate election officials in each state—usually the Secretary of State for each State, the Democratic and Republican National Committees, the Speaker of the House, and the Federal Election Committee (FEC) all have some responsibility for this verification.
You seen any of these Secretaries of State stepping forward to certify in ringing tones –with documented proof–that Obama fulfilled this requirement? I haven’t.
You see the DNC or the Speaker say anything much or, especially, present proof that Obama met this requirement? I haven’t
See any such verification by the FEC?
Well, in fact, both the DNC and the FEC have been involved in the various citizen plaintiff’s lawsuits against Obama & Co.—sometimes as co-defendants, and always on Obama’s side—denying that either organization has any responsibility to verify his citizenship status, and arguing that plaintiffs did not have the standing to petition courts to require Obama to produce his original birth certificate; all these suits were won on the threshold issue of “standing” and, thus, neither Obama, the DNC or the FEC ever had to move on to argue anything about Obama’s actual citizenship status. So, it would seem like there is a major and important question about Obama’s citizenship status to be answered here.
Ordinary citizens who have sued to force Obama to produce his original birth certificate have been told by numerous courts in various states, and the U.S. Supreme court, that either their petition for a hearing was ludicrous and unworthy of any consideration, or that the 30 or so day window to ask for such verification had closed, or, most often–and most ludicrously–that as U.S. citizens and voters, they just did not have the “standing,” the “skin in the game, ” could not prove that they would be sufficiently harmed were Obama not to be eligible to run for or become President, to justify a court inquiring into Obama’s citizenship status by requiring him to produce his original birth certificate.
Translation of the last paragraph: All the cited courts, faced with an immanent and very obvious “Constitutional crisis” that would be an impossible, unprecedented, chaotic and very dangerous mess, that could set the precedent of possibly invalidating and unraveling the entire Obama administration, from Obama on down—all appointments, all legislation, all rules and regulatory actions, all decisions, and all foreign agreements–possibly tear our country apart and lead to violence and, conceivably, civil war, decided to punt, look the other way, and decline to investigate this issue at all.
I say those suffering from Palinoia like this author are far more over the edge than the so-called birthers. Get a grip on yourself man.
Let’s look at history. When John McCain nominated Sarah Palin, he had the election won. When she opened her mouth, McCain lost the election. She may be the darling of the far right; but, she’s driving out all the moderates.
The next election will be decided by the moderate middle. Because of Palin they left the GOP in hopes of something better. Obama wasn’t their answer. Palin will only cost us the next election. Win the middle and win the election!
Rick Moran’s wits are leaving him faster than his readers.
Just checked my post for any follow-ups… Note: Spell checker in Word2007 changes AGW to AWG (American Wire Gauge). Nice. The conspiricy is now in my spell checker. Oh, the humanity.
Also, Wolla Dalbo makes a point. In short, there were 2 certifications of validation of nomination signed in Denver after the kenyan’s nomination. One stated that obama was constitutionally certified to run for president, the other, signed off on about 20 minutes later, lost the constitutional wording. Both signed by Pelosi.
This same documentation, which is subject to certification by the proper state authority in the other 49 states… was never even submited.
Darn! I was hoping the birther issue would never be mainstreamed…let’s see, what is Barry paying to cover up? Does he look more like BHO Sr. or another man?
but Obama can be president and he appointed a “truther” Van Jones to a post in his administration.
But it is an issue. Obama could have put the issue to bed in August 2008 after Berg filed the 1st suit. He who doth protest too much? Why are so many suits rejected for lack of standing? Every American should have standing to sue in this
Oscar. McCain lost because of the financial crisis and his inability to address it,
Rick: I completely disagree with you on everything. Also, I am sick and tired of you and others saying its just republicans (birthers). You know better than that. There are many thousands of democrats who want him to show that he is a natural born citizen. I personally despise everything he stands for and the people around him including congressional democrats. They are disgusting. We have a communist, muslim sympathizer in our white house.
OK…if you scroll up the string you’ll see that I got my licks in on Moran (see comment 54). Now…it’s time for me to defend him. I read Rick’s stuff almost daily on American Thinker. Better than 95% of the time I agree with him and think he’s a great writer. He is…about 95% of the time.
Another great AT writer is J.R. Dunn. He writes brilliantly and most of the time he’s right on target. But when he strays into his own personal opinions of “birthers” he draws the wrath of AT readers. Why? Because, unlike “truthers”, “birthers” are not necessarily full of shit. Oh…I don’t buy that “he was born in Kenya” stuff…in fact, it’s not even relevant at this point. But the “birthers” have brought to the forefront everything else Obama has concealed. And this actually IS “unprecedented” for a modern president of the USA, Jack Cashill’s work has amply demonstrated how little we actually know about this fraud. The birthers were sounding the alarm long before Jack.
Moran was attacked on AT when he merely commented that he didn’t care much for Rush Limbaugh. What!? Question the profit? I listen to Limbaugh all the time and often hear him speaking from a position of authority about stuff he obviously knows little about. Still, I like Rush. I like Palin, too. I don’t (personally) see her as presidential material but she sure has appeal. The “Arctic Fox” can certainly be a deciding factor in who the Republicans run to defeat Obama in 2012.
My complaint is that it serves no useful purpose to either disparage Sarah Palin or slight the “birthers” at this point and Moran shouldn’t have done so. But I can forgive this transgression because MOST of the time Rick Moran is on OUR side.
One last thing, Palin is 1000 times smarter than the ass sitting in the white house now.
And her whining declaration that she didn’t go after Obama hard enough on his radical associations fails to mention that the reason McCain dropped it was because nearly 2/3 of voters couldn’t have cared less. It was a losing strategy, period.
Yeah, unlike that winning strategy McCain came up with. Douche.
The nascence of all the questions about Mr. Obama’s nascency is found in the “birthed,” not the “birthers.” Why the reason for such reluctance to disclose any information? Is it to be found in the birth certificate? in the unreleased college applications? in the unreleased college grades? in the adoption papers? in the college thesis? in the undisclosed medical records? We are left to wonder why there is such an opacity to the man who espouses transparency so vehemently. One thing is certain. It keeps anyone who is foolish enough to fall for this cat and mouse game busy chasing his or her tail. And maybe that is the point. The American people spoke on election day 2008. The issue is moot. The focus should be on what comes henceforth.
“She may be the darling of the far right; but, she’s driving out all the moderates.”
GOOD! There is no such thing as a conservative moderate. To hell with those who can’t take a stand because they are afraid to have an opinion. Get out! You are what’s wrong with the GOP!
I had to produce more of a legitimate birth certificate to get a drivers permit. There is something to this.
All Sara said was that it deserved consideration if it was still an issue with voters. The refusal to be forthcoming is more demonstrative of something amiss than a copy of anything.
America does not trust a liar and a traitor. Those that do are scared as hell of Palin.
What’s so hard to understand about that?
dh
Rick, Palin has really gotten the best of you an left you sputtering.
Every time there is a hachet piece on Palin , we know it is you. Pity. Perhpas we will start to leave you behind. Sounds like you belong at Huffington
The common-sense way of looking at the controversy over the hidden records (the refusal to release any academic records strikes me as far more troubling than the birth certificate tempest-in-a-teapot) is that it continues to grate because the records are reminders of the mainstream media’s failure to properly vet Obama. What did we (and do we) really know about his background? We know what he told us, but even limited fact-checking on that raised serious questions. Palin has a reason to be frustrated and upset–the media went wild trying to vet her, a candidate for mere vice president, while they did almost no probing into the background of the presidential candidate for the opposing ticket. However, the Left would rather not have the issue presented in this way, so they have tried to delegitimize the issue of the non-vetting of Obama by branding anyone who raises it as a conspiracy fanatic, or “birther.” Yes, there are some fanatics there, and you see some of them in the comments above. But there are also real questions about the past of our president. It is unfortunate that Moran has chosen to tell the story using the framework in which the Obama folks place the issue, and a lot of the frustration shown in these comments is a result of that choice.
Mr Moran, in dismissing Palin, you are dismissing a large part of the party you claim to support. Your “big tent” approach looks like it is shrinking, whilst Palin’s inclusive approach is gaining support.
I’m disgusted we have people in the Republican Party like you. You are entitled to your opinions, but the nastiness of your attacks would have sent you packing in better days, unfit for anything except the fringe sore-loser crowd.
“the state of Hawaii issued a statement.. he was born there.. no questions left to answer’
Rick, ya jerk, there are questions that should be answered as a RESULT of that statement.
First– WHY WON’T HE SHOW ANY OF HIS DOCUMENTS if they are bona fided, as his birth cert. has now been bona fided by Hawaii?
Answers– maybe there’s something ELSE on there he doesn’t want ppl to know… but what? name of father? what else? And is Hawaii a welded-tight, seamless Democrat operation like Michigan and Louisiana? Sure it is.. so, um, why on EARTH should we trust them to be transparent when no other aspect of the Democrat party or the Obama machine has shown any such inclination lately?
Second– it isn’t just the birth cert he won’t show.. why no college papers, no transcripts, no grades from high school, no international travel records for his Pakistan trip, in short, NOTHING ABOUT HIS LIFE EXCEPT THE TWO AUTOBIOGRAPHIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????
Rick, you are so willing to accept anything this guy spoon feeds you, I’d peg you for a future executive position at the American version of Pravda. A government buttkisser for sure.
Jeebus Rick, get over your PDS. You and certain others make a common mistake in that you still let the enemy set the conditions of the fight. You whine every time she makes any kind of statement that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn’t matter how eloquent she is or how nuanced blah, blah, blah – the MSM will never treat her fairly. In your little world she has to be perfect all the time every time or the whole house of cards will collapse or something. Whether she runs for President or not is certainly not up to you or any of the other bloggers of the fevered brow. I can just imagine if you had been able to blog back when Reagan said he had passed legislation to outlaw Russia and we were going to begin bombing in 5 minutes. No doubt you would have been hyperventilating and typing furiously about how that proved Reagan was too extreme and not capable of being President, legitimizing the John Birchers, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. Rick – you don’t matter to Sarah or 99% of the rest of us.
Do the people writing here sound like Conspiracy Loons? No. Nothing in common with the JFK/UFO/Truther crowd. Thats because with Obama everything
is fake..staged, manipulated..and normal rational people have been pushed to the point that they think anything is possible.
LOL, some moonbat called Palin “poopface.” You must be the hit of your 3rd grade class! And it’s such an accurate description, because everyone knows Sarah’s just hideous!
ic: Yeah, “Another Alaskan” is really a genius. Anybody with a basic knowledge of female biology who can count off months knows Bristol couldn’t possibly be Trig’s mother. I understand why Dr. Andrew Sullivan, the Atlantic’s resident OB/GYN, might be confused on this point, but somebody who actually buys his demented upchucking is somebody who probably has difficulty tying their own shoes in the morning. Like I said, I’m more interested in Obama’s hidden college transcripts (affirmative action admit, probably) than in the birther thing, but at least the birth certificate doubters make a better case than the lefty bozos bizarrely obsessed with Palin’s womb.
Here is what the closet oba maoist had to say on his own blog. This guy is a bad joke and smear on PJM:
Quote:
More than 100 comments over at PJM – I’d say it’s 20 to 1 against me. Better than I expected.
Allow me to add something; Does opposing a conservative make me less of a conservative? For some, the answer is yes.
In which case, I would say they are cultists rather than conservatives. If you think opposing a personality determines one’s adherence to conservative principles, might I suggest you get ready because the Mother Ship is close now and you don’t have much time.
It is pure idiocy to judge the depth of one’s belief in anything in the first place. But to include one’s devotion to an individual as a litmus test of orthodoxy? Those who think this way may want to re-examine their assumptions.
It’s a shame for history’s sake that Germans didn’t follow that advice 75 years ago.
Unquote
The greatest threat of ignoring the constitution is the possibility having President Arnold do for our country what he did for California. He might do even more than Obama.
from the moron’s blog …
Born in Libertyville, IL Moran grew up in Mount Prospect, IL and attended Drake University where he graduated in 1976 with a Bachelor of Fine Arts Degree. He has 9 brothers and sisters, all of whom are much more liberal than he is which makes for interesting family reunions.
What in ha’el?!? Are they Trotsky stooges?
A link to an article that includes purported images of the two different documents, apparently signed within minutes of each other by Pelosi, one of which includes the certification that Obama and Biden “are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution,” and another in which this language is now missing; this article asserts that it was this second document, the one minus the “legally qualified to serve” language, that was sent to all the States certifying Obama, see (http://bidenobama.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-does-pelosi-know-about-obamas.html)
If genuine, these documents signed by Pelosi, like Hawaiian officials very careful statements that they had viewed, and say that they do have Obama’s birth record in their custody as prescribed by law, both seem to me to be anticipatory efforts to arrange things so that–if, somehow, the shit hits the fan–they both have some way to deny that they actually certified that Obama was, in one case, born in Hawaii, and in the other case, a “natural born citizen” who met the Constitution’s requirement.
As I point out above, the courts can also argue that, since none of the plaintiffs could prove that they had the “standing” to sue, the courts were not negligent in never actually getting to the issue of Obama’s citizenship status. I believe another anticipatory action was Senator Obama’s very uncharacteristic and interesting co-sponsorship of S. Res 511, the “sense of the Senate Resolution” that gave the Senate’s opinion that, even though Senator McCain was born in the Panama Canal, i.e. technically “born overseas,” Senator McCain was a “natural born citizen” and eligible to both run for and become President.
As Obama’s policies and he become more and more unpopular–a Democratic controlled Congress not being willing to consider Impeachment–look for all sorts of people to clamor and look for some other way to remove Obama from office, and when things get to this state, whether or not Obama was a legitimate candidate for President, who met the Constitution’s “natural born citizenship requirement” may well be a question of supreme importance to many citizens that requires the most searching and scrupulous investigation.
So, the state of Hawaii has issued a statement….. Well, like AGW and consensus by the UN, the proof is in the pudding……and NO ONE has seen the pudding regardng an official birth certificate.
the more she pisses people off on the left and on the right, the more I like her.
Moran is such a pathetic personage. I find the worst kind of supposed conservative those that burn up valuable hours eating their own. You almost always find them the ones adhering themselves to progressive thinking and calamitous democratic ideology. Go all the way to the left Ricky…nobody here likes you.
I find that those on the conservative side that so quickly adhere their opinions to that of those on the left are who do a great deal of damage to conservatives in general. Although I do not consider myself a “birther”, can there be any greater travesty than conservatives labeling their own with monikers given by the left?, I do find several things about the question compelling.
First, why is Obama spending so much money from his campaign chest in legal fees to block this? He could spend a paltry fifteen dollars and produce a valid long form from the Hawaiian registry.
Second, if this truly is no more than a conspiracy why would his team of advisers not merely lay the issue to rest?
You can side with the leftist excuse mongers all you like but until these two questions are adequately answered I am in no hurry to label anyone a “birther” or similarly demeaning nickname. Up until a week or so ago many on here were just as willing to label someone a “denier” if they brought up a “conspiracy theory” concerning the climate scientist involved with the IPCC. Look at how fast a worm can turn fellas…
Here are a few things to consider:
Obama has never supplied any birth certificate. The one posted online was done by an Obamazombie
McCain was tested by congress to see if he qualified under the “natural born citizen” provision
Obama was never tested or even vetted by congress
Obama has spent over a million dollars in campaign and personal monies to block attempts at legally forcing him to release his long form birth certificate
Obama spent his first full day in the oval office issuing an executive order restricting the release of his records
Among those records not available to be released without presidential agreement are; his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.
For those that would doubt the amounts of money that have gone into blocking attempts at making Obama produce a real birth certificate I suggest a quick look into his activities:
Robert F. Bauer works for the law firm of Perkins and Coie. Now let’s look at how much money Obama for America (Obama’s Campaign Organization) has payed to Perkins and Coie for Mr. Bauer’s services:
September 2008
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M9/C00431445/B_PAYEE_C00431445.html
$64,826.03
October 2008
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M10/C00431445/B_PAYEE_C00431445.html
$124,069.67
Between November and December 2008
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/YE/C00431445/B_PAYEE_C00431445.html
$173,052.02
Between January and March 2009
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2009/Q1/C00431445/B_PAYEE_C00431445.html
$688,316.42
I may actually be missing something between Oct,16,2008 and Dec,31,2008 as other sources list payment to Perkins and Coie as $378,375.52 for this period and my checking only added up to $361,947.72. But I think you get the brunt of it eh? These expenditures carry on from March to current day.
So, label folks as crazy if you wish. But, be prepared to look silly when and if truth is exposed as it was with climategate.
astonerii:
“Not one check can be made to verify any person’s eligibility to be the President of The United States of America. The courts cannot, the states cannot, congress cannot, citizens cannot. We have to take the person’s word that they are eligible. There is not one single check in place to verify the very exacting statement in the Constitution of the United States of America about the legal eligibility that must be met to be the President of the United States of America?”
Factually inaccurate sir! Or M’am. The DNC or RNC is supposed to check the credentials ( Birth Certificate) of every candidate. They are responsible for ‘vetting’ their candidates. I’m certain that if they had known the BC they were looking at was a forgery, then Clinton would be POTUS today.
In the Usurpers case they (DNC) looked at the photoshopped copy that was posted on the internet. The usurper had very little choice, since that forgery was what he used to show he was qualified to be a Senator, which just requires citizenship with no restrictions on place of birth. Producing one BC for Senator and a different one for POTUS would have lifted some eyebrows.
That is the forgery that the moonbats are claiming proves he is a natural born citizen.
Being a forgery, it proves nothing. Note that the moonbats don’t claim it isn’t a forgery, since the markers left by the photo shop program are still there. You have to take those out by hand and whoever did the Photoshop work didn’t know about file markers or how to remove them. There are 10′s of millions of people with the technical skill to go in the file and look at those markers. So the moonbats try to change the subject and run red herring about anything to try and divert attention from the facts.
“But it is an issue. Obama could have put the issue to bed in August 2008 after Berg filed the 1st suit. He who doth protest too much? Why are so many suits rejected for lack of standing? Every American should have standing to sue in this”
They do. The suits are being done in civil courts (administrative law courts) and the rules are different there. You have to show you have been damaged financially. Also Berg is a prominent Democrat as is the Judge. If I was the paraniod sort, I would think it was a set up.
A normal/”regular” court of law is REQUIRED to address any Constitutional issues. So when they come to arrest me for not buying Health insurance, my Attorney will move to dismiss because Obama has never proven that he is authorized to sign the Health care bill. No matter what the Judge does, we win. If he laughs and denies, then we appeal. I have the money to take it all the way to the USSC, which I will do. If he drops the charges, then we can still file a motion on the law part. It gets to technical for me to follow at that point.
Anyway, It’s a trap and I’m looking forward to springing it.
The key to getting it thru the judicial system is for it to be a criminal case. Civil Law gives the Judges more room to wiggle.
robotech master – I’ve been researching and writing about the birthers claims now since July of 2008.
And there are two constants I have seen.
1) Lack of anything even close to credible evidence. I see a lot of claims made (certificate is a forgery, Obama has spent millions in legal fees), but never see any hard evidence to support these claims. Or I see claims (Indonesian citizenship, Pakistan travel ban in 1984) that are quite easy to disprove (minors can’t renounce US citizenship, Obama too old under Indonesian law, State Department confirms no US travel ban, NYT had a travel article that year on tourism in Pakistan)
2) When evidence is provided, the goalposts are always moved back. Again, in summer of 2008, there were demands that Obama show his birth certificate due to the rumor that his middle name is “Mohammed”. When the birth certificate (again, a legal document) was scanned and a copy of the graphic file from that scan was posted on his website, the rumour got changed to “forgery”. When “FactCheck” went to see the physical document, the meme became “well, they’re in the tank for Obama”. When the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii and the REPUBLICAN Department of Health director confirmed they hold his original birth certificate and that the image posted contained the same data as in their records, the meme then became “show us the long form then!”.
At this point, a rational human being would be forced to conclude that no amount of evidence is going to convince those doubters otherwise. And someone always seems to come up with another excuse.
A good example is the current one that the Constitution refers to de Vattel’s “Law of Nations” in defining the term “Natural Born Citizen” as meaning “born of two US citizens”. This is a claim that’s not only not supported by 200+ years of US law and US court case history, but not even supported by de Vattel, as the original French didn’t use the term “Natural Born Citizen” and the English translation that used it wasn’t published until after the Constitution was written. Furthermore, the chapter that is cited refers to those countries using continental law, and de Vattel makes a key distinction in how English Common Law defines citizenship at birth (jus soli rather than jus sanguis). Since much of early US law is taken from English Common Law rather than continental law, it makes more sense to assume the writers of the Constitution were using that as a basis for defining “Natural Born Citizen”
Musing Lew – September though November 2008 was during the campaign, and December though March was wrapping up said campaign. I’d like to see those amounts contrasted with the legal fees paid by the McCain campaign during those same time periods. (there’s a lot of legal work done during a political campaign, and it would be dishonest to claim that all of Obama’s legal costs during that time period were “birther” related – particularly since most of the lawsuits at that time and since then were directed towards state officials, and not Obama per se.)
Bear in mind that during that time period, McCain also had a court case in which he fought against – and won – having his birth certificate revealed. (Google Robinson v Bowen, 3:2008cv03836, California Northern District Federal Court)
The COLB posted on Obama’s *official* campaign website was later looked at physically in Obama’s Chicago campaign office. Seems like it was officially provided by the campaign at that point.
You might want to read the Executive Order that Obama signed on the day he took office (Executive Order 13489). He actually revoked Bush’s Executive Order 13233 of November 1, 2001, which was a far more restrictive order. Nor does it protect or hide records from BEFORE the President took office.
See for yourself:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-1712.pdf
I almost started to believe until I realized that the same types of people who ‘settled’ the science of climate change also settled the questions about President Obama’s birth certificate. That is, people who had a motive to change the records to suit their agenda had ample opportunity to do so. Was Obama born in the United States? Does AGW exist? I don’t know. But, simple prudence requires that we not accept the testimony of a friendly witnesses at face value.
Hey Rick, your column is so clueless, your opinions are so wrong and worthless, and you have so badly misjudged Sarah Palin, that you have proven beyond any doubt that I should not waste any more time reading your columns. But I really enjoyed reading the comments of readers blasting you, who don’t seem to be such a small minority after all.
One thing keeps me coming back to this subject.
Barry won’t sue the birthers. Is it because of discovery?
At this point in the game I would.
Rick Moran,
I think you’ve gone waaay too far towards the “elite right” on this one – just like the left, you seem to have no understanding of who Sarah Palin is or what she represents, and she scares you. You’re best move, at this point, is to cease writing about her. You’re just digging a deeper hole.
Sinclair wrote:
the more she pisses people off on the left and on the right, the more I like her.
I feel the same way. I’ve always liked her, but I remain unconvinced she’s suitable for the presidency. Not because I think she’s dumb or because she didn’t go to the “right schools” but because I think she’s very effective in a gadfly role.
But she makes all the right enemies. People now forget how much Reagan was despised by the RINOs of his day.
To Mr. Moran,
If you were tried in court, for a serious offense, and that Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth was the evidence against you, might you not want to see the original, check out the doctor, the hospital, etc.?
And why would you not want to see Obama’s passports, school applications and reports, all the items on his resume? Under what names and nationalities did he travel, live, and represent himself?
So far we know his closest contacts, mentors, co-conspirators are a mess of communists, atheists, liars, racists, america-haters, traitors and worse. Why should we not be suspicious of this absolutely unqualified antisocial personality?
Ignorance, stupidity and malice motivate the refusal to reveal the facts of the case. Why do you not want the person who signed the latest certificate required to produce the original and be cross examined in court?
And why the ad populam plea? Truth is sought, not the pleasure of either the majority or even the totality. Unless, of course, one cannot live with the Truth.
What planet do these people live on? The question of Obama’s citizenship has most certainly NOT been resolved. And no, the only people interested are not nut-jobs, they’re Americans. There is a lawsuit pending on this matter, it’s not OVER. Who publishes this kind of nonsense from writers who obviously have no idea what they are talking about?
What’s the plan? If you say it x amount of times it will automatically become truth?
Put the crack pipe down and pay attention!
PS: To JP49:
And so is my cocker spaniel.
78.eboneocon:”She is blowing the dog whistle of racial politics very loudly here.”
what whistle?where?
86.spacecat75:”unemployment could hit 30% next year and the Democrats will maintain if not expand their congressional majorities. BUZZZZ!!!!”
that makes perfect sense.
148.n&t:if only you were right…but we both know you’re just fooling yourself.this sad trainwreck is almost too painful to witness:
1)glen beck is derailing your man’s domestic agenda..glen freaking beck?!
2)ACORN. who would look at that couple and think SHE was a prostitute and HE was a pimp…hilarity.i mean if you’re that dumb-you really should be locked up.
3)AGW.i gotta hand it to you on this one…you people were REAL close to perpetrating one of the largest scams EVER.what master tactician out smarted you on that one…it was karl rove wasn’t it?
emails.
so let’s just recap..glen beck,two collage kids and emails.
scary.
still excited about 2010?
The Birth Cert is a red herring …
The real Constitutional issue is the following: Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen … So can’t be President … However lots of folks don’t understand that clause of U.S. constitution.
•Natural Born Citizen
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Now the part … or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution… is a grandfather clause for themselves.
http://www.house.gov/house/Constitut…stitution.html
Now many think a natural born citizen mean being born in the U.S. This is not the case. When the founding father wrote the Constitution the interpretation of what a Natural Born Citizen was well understood …
THE
LAW OF NATIONS
OR
PRINCIPLES OF THE LAW OF NATURE
APPLIED TO THE CONDUCT AND AFFAIRS
OF NATIONS AND SOVEREIGNS
FROM THE FRENCH OF
MONSIEUR DE VATTEL.
§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.
http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel.txt
I want to emphasis parents is plural. It is a known fact that Obama father was a British Citizen when he was born so thus he could be born next door to you or present a long form birth certificate that he was born in Hawaii it would be irrelevant. Only one of his parents was a U.S. citizen not both so he is not a Natural Born Citizen. The President being Commander –In– Chief, the founding fathers wanted be the highest standard of Citizenship be applied to insure to the best of their abilities that the President would have full allegiance to the United States.
Now let’s take a look at the 14th amendment section 1
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Again they use citizen not Natural Born citizen.
So Thus …
The Constitution confers three types of citizen status:
- “natural born citizen”, but only with regard to eligibility
to hold the office of President
- “citizen” to those born in the United States via the 14th
Amendment
- “citizen” to those naturalized in the United States via
the 14th amendment
IMHO you would need a Constitutional Amendment to change the Natural Born Citizen Clause
Yet I have some more for you … Take a look the following …
The US Constitution requires that the President must be a “natural born citizen” of the US. The Constitution makes a clear distinction between a basic citizen – who may be a Senator or Representative – and a “natural born citizen” – the higher standard which is required for the President/Commander In Chief.
Obama was a Constitutional law professor and Harvard Law graduate running for President. He was fully aware of the most on point US Supreme Court holding which discussed the meaning of “natural born citizen”
– Minor v. Happersett – wherein the Supreme Court stated:
The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [88 U.S. 162, 168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.
In the Minor case, the person wasn’t running for President of the US so the court didn’t have to reach the nbc issue. But the court did note that the foreign nationality of a native born person’s parents could effect that native born person’s natural-born citizen status.
Furthermore, the court also stated that the definition of “natural-born citizen” was not found in the Constitution so “Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.” Why is this important?
BECAUSE SCOTUS ISSUED THE MINOR HOLDING IN 1874 WHILE THE 14TH AMENDMENT WAS ADOPTED IN 1868.
The most predominant argument that Obama is Constitutionally eligible to be President relies on the wording of the 14th Amendment which states that a person born on US soil and subject to the jurisdiction thereof is a US citizen. But the 14th Amendment does not say that every person born on US soil is a “natural-born citizen”, it just says “citizen”. Obama supporters have argued that 14th Amendment citizenship makes one eligible to be President and satisfies the natural born- citizen requirements of Article 2 Section 1. This is the “native born” = “natural born” argument.
The 14th Amendment was adopted in 1868. But the Minor decision was issued in 1874 wherein SCOTUS said:
The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.
The 14th Amendment had already been part of the Constitution for six years when SCOTUS made that statement. SCOTUS clearly and unequivocally states in Minor that the 14th Amendment does NOT define who is a “natural-born citizen”. Anybody who says the 14th Amendment does define “natural-born citizen” is lying and/or ignorant as to the Supreme Court’s holding in Minor – the most on point discussion of the definition of the Article 2 Section 1 “natural-born citizen” requirement for POTUS.
Now maybe you understand why the MSM jumped all over Palin. They are scared to death.
I tend to agree with Moran on this one. If Palin is fool enough to answer this question seriously then she is too much of a dolt to run a serious campaign against the Messiah and his media apologists.
One thing the answer she gave on this question should put to rest once and for all is that she is “like Reagan”. She is more like Gary Bauer.
name-calling goes 2 ways: no, Rick, YOU’RE wacky.
188 patGund
Still crickets on your posts, Pat. Nobody here can hold a candle to your knowledge and experience. The best “Donna the birther robotech V” can do is whimper, “Is so! Is so!” But you have to understand, they get their opinions from people like Glenn Beck and Orly Taitz, neither of whom I would trust to know their own shoe size.
It’s a pleasure to see these tea baggers avoid you. Under the light of your truth they run for the corners like cockroaches in a doublewide.
“I’ve been researching and writing about the birthers claims now since July of 2008.” . . . Believe me, Pat, It shows. Thanks.
SHUT DOWN! SLAPPED INTO NEXT WEEK! CRYING LIKE A KID AT THE DENTIST!
Love it.
Donna V
That’s still 16 points ahead of Palin’s favorability numbers. But let me guess, you don’t care about that poll. instead of poll numbers, why don’t you try to Google up a personality.
RM: You brought a knife to a gun fight.
this is not the first time moran has produced poppycock and inanity in the blogosphere…I wonder where/how he earned credibility or standing as a thinker worth citing let alone publishing…his work is consistently below standards of most professionals, often lacking both style and substance.
I have to say it: I think Pat Gund makes very good points. The idea that you can’t be president unless both parents are also US citizens is certainly false.
Look, Obama is a shifty character and I have no doubt there’s quite a bit about his past we don’t know. But we’ve already got plenty to hammer him with – not his birth certificate, but the mess he’s making right now. By 2012, we’ll have a lot more to throw at him, since he can’t vote “present” anymore.
I suspect he prefers it when conservatives focus on his birth certificate because he’ll just continue to ignore that. Justifying his policies – that won’t be so easy.
Are you afraid of having a lady as our president?
The question is not whether you can ask Obama about his birth certificate (you can, it’s your constitutional right).
The question isn’t even whether it’s legitimate to ask him about it (many here believe it is, most Americans don’t).
The question is whether this is still relevant, and whether it really helps the campaign to defeat Obama.
Get real, my friends, the man is in the White House and we’re not going to dislodge him by wringing our fists in the air and demanding he produce his original BC. The state of Hawaii spoke. The courts have spoken. You’re fighting a battle you already lost. To keep brining it up only makes conservatives sound like sore losers, much like the Democrats whining for years about Bush stealing the 2000 election.
The issue is no longer relevant. Obama will only be removed by defeating him at the ballot box in 2012. This implies a MAJORITY of American voters agreeing with the conservative point of view. Focus on the issues most American care about (jobs, the economy, Afghanistan, terrorism, US foreign policy, healthcare) and how Obama is failing in them, and you will ultimately reach the goal all birthers strive for: the defeat of Obama and his hideous policies.
Moran is unhelpful by unnecessarily tearing into Palin for this. At the same time, Palin doesn’t bring us any closer to defeating the Democrats by talking about this issue. She’s right that asking about Obama’s BC is an exercise in free speech, not unlike that exercised by those questioning whether Trig was her son. But do you really want to exercise your freedom of speech in a manner comparable to how the loony liberal wing of the Democratic party does?
30. Tina: and other commenters.
Just so you know, in #30 and after, you were wasting time trying to drill sense into moho, not me. He’s taken to impersonating commenters on PJM (or posting as anonymous). I suspect that at this point most of what he posts under the moho the marching moron handle isn’t getting through moderation. (It particularly irks him when that’s pointed out.)
You’ve seen enough of his style in the past, (and might recognize mine – though he posts 50 times for one comment from me, my comments make 50 times the sense of any one from him). Look at the style of what he wrote as ‘commuter’ and think about it.
Also keep this in mind if any other posters you’ve read before seem to suddenly write moho style drivel.
To 188. PatGund
I’m sorry but if you’ve been researching the constitutionalists claims about obama since july then your only source must be factcheck.org, huffington post and the new york times.
All of your claims have been debunked many times over.
# 201 Now and Then: what you have just committed is the LOGICAL fallacy of ‘argumentum ad populem’ where you say that something HAS to be correct because a lot of people think it is. this is a very common Mohammedan argument, who do not understand logic at all, where they keep pushing the ‘fastest growing CULT’ BS and the 1.5 Billion CULT members . To put it into perspective at one time everyone KNEW the earth was Flat.
Sorry but a Report of Live Birth is not a birth certificate. My husband and I have two children born while he was stationed in the Philippines. They both have a Report of Birth Abroad AND a birth certificate. I had to show the Birth Certificate to enroll them in school, get their drivers license and prove they could attend a state college. A report of birth is just that and involves only the “recording of a birth” not the actual event signed by a doctor.
If “our fearful leader” and his cabal really wanted to lay this to rest they would “RELEASE THE ACTUAL DOCUMENT”, but they’d rather make fun of people, disenfranchise half the country and have those of us who oppose them eat each other, keeps us off their yellow striped backs.
Thank goodness someone on the political landscape will actually say what many of us are thinking, which is why the left hates Palin, Beck et al. They can’t counter their arguments so the ad hominem attacks continue. It’s sad actually. So many of them go into a battle of wits with no weapons at all, it’s like taking a feather duster to a knife fight.
Rick Moran is an exemple of why the persons who read Pajamasmedia cannot assume the posters and bloggers are as they identify themselves.
We should all realize by now that a campaign of disinformation and disattribution is the hallmark of the Obama Administration and the goal of infiltrating “enemy” communication engines … newspapers, magazines, the internet has been fully accomplished.
Without a full review of the writers’ credentials, combined with a healthy dose of skepticism, trust noone.
I applaud Sarah Palin and others for keeping the Obama birth certificate issue alive. And those who continue to refer to Obama as a Muslim are also doing their part. Maybe the Democrats will not do so poorly in the next election after all. Now if we can just get focus back on how the earth is only 6,000 years old, the Bible is the literal truth, and how Republican presidents are good for the economy, we might actually get somewhere.
On that last point, please do look it up. The U.S. has always prospered more under a Democratic president, and I’m talking about the private sector, by the way.
there is no hope for America. The Left have their jihad apologist, and all-round incompetent sleazebag and empty suit, Obama and the Right have the birthers.
Moran, good article – but look at all the fact-free ad hominem invective you get you way from the birther zombies, and there are so many of them – an army of zombies. It’s why there is no hope for conservatism in America (just like liberalism which is bankrupt in every way), and even if the birther madness fades over time, they will just find something else equally deranged to replace it.
Rick, you’ve really got to get a grip. You’re dangerously close to Andy Sullivan whack-job territory. I for one believe that President Lightworker was born in Hawaii. Why not just show the damn thing? What’s he got to hide? Stop giving aid and comfort to the enemy. You know that if the Right ran a candidate who didn’t show his transcripts/thesis/citizenship status/natal origin/whatever, they’d be going ballistic. Olbie would be screaming nightly about the injustice of it all. Get over it. I wanna see it. I’m a citizen and I’m entitled.
>The state of Hawaii issued a statement confirming that Obama was born there, thus making him a U.S. citizen. Why is that so hard to accept?
I’ll tell you why: because I no longer trust government, or its officials, to tell me the truth, PARTICULARLY in light of the fawning and slavish coverage given to Barack Obama by the US press.
>And her whining declaration that she didn’t go after Obama hard enough on his radical associations fails to mention that the reason McCain dropped it was because nearly 2/3 of voters couldn’t have cared less.
I daresay, they care NOW.
In addition, maybe Sarah is practicing the Art of War;
If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Let me add my voice to those who find this attempt at commentary a ridiculous display. Palin is actually far more clever than the author. She has been clear that she doesn’t believe the rumors, but she’s also laid the onus on Mr. Obama to bring the matter to satisfactory conclusion.
Which is precisely where it should lie. Mr. Obama has proven himself untrustworthy on every issue. Why should his birth be different? (And I do believe he’s an American citizen, albeit one not worthy of the confidence that has been extended to him.)
Ridiculous!
RM writes a decent article and the birthers jump up like wounded worms. Look at the # of responses to this article and the rest of PJM.
Soldiers to Afghanistan. Who cares?
Global warming? Another birther story.
Sarah Palin? The Paris Hilton of politics.
You can read the frustration of being out of power. And it’s not coming back soon.
Meanwhile, the health care plan will be a reality and a great accomplishment that no one can top.
Join the crowd or perish.
“She is immunized against such career-ending gaffes by her loyal followers who don’t want to listen to anyone when they criticize, laugh, or beat their heads against a wall over the latest … ”
You aren’t criticizing her, you’re sneering at her. Your tone is so off-putting that I don’t really care what you think, any more I care what a snarling dog thinks – I just get the hell away from it.
I read Pajamas Media to see where the Right is coming from and am always pleased to find the occasional reasonable post like this one by Rick Moran. Then I read the whack-a-doodle comments and smile. Yep, the Right wingnuts are still unwilling/unable to face facts. Keep up the good work.
Go play in the street Rick !
common sense said that, if you really born in Hawai, why not just release the birth certificate instead of spending a million to prevent it.
Obviusly, rick doesn’t have common sense.
Well, if a few people who work for the state of Hawaii said they saw Obama’s birth certificate then we all better believe them. We’ve got a president who has yet to show his birth certificate. Someone who attempted to put a phony one his website.
Moran has reading comprehension issues. Palin spoke sense. Rick, not so much.
=”For the last time: The state of Hawaii issued a statement confirming that Obama was born there, ”
ah! I feel so much better now! /sarc
I have cleared some space on my bookshelf for this one. I had to toss a few volumes on the assassination of JFK to make room. My pet theory is: blah-blah has no birth certificate. It was reported on WND: “Dunham was a teenager, 18-years-old, when Barack Obama Jr. was born.” the story continues, raising questions as to whether blah-blah’s parents were married
I suspect Ann may have returned to Washington (state) and had the baby in secret for her own reasons. so maybe the actual problem is: blah-blah doesn’t have a birth-certificate from anyplace.
My theory is just about as good as anybody else’, I think.
=”For the last time: The state of Hawaii issued a statement confirming that Obama was born there, ”
ah! I feel so much better now! /sarc
I have cleared some space on my bookshelf for this one. I had to toss a few volumes on the assassination of JFK to make room. My pet theory is: blah-blah has no birth certificate. It was reported on WND: “Dunham was a teenager, 18-years-old, when Barack Obama Jr. was born.” the story continues, raising questions as to whether blah-blah’s parents were married
I suspect Ann may have returned to Washington (state) and had the baby in secret for her own reasons. so maybe the actual problem is: blah-blah doesn’t have a birth-certificate from anyplace.
My theory is just about as good as anybody else’,
I think.
Rick’s becoming a troll. One suspects he’s paid by the number of comments.
This entire thing is “so what”.
How about we all swap birth certificates. Actually, I don’t have one either but I do have a “Report of Birth” from the US Consulate.
Mr. Moran’s piece makes me wonder if he didn’t maybe get a little of that $500,000 OforA raised to do battle with the forces of Palin.
I hope you spend your loot wisely.
Call me a “birther”, if you wish. Birth certificate or no, there are a huge amount of unanswered questions about this guy’s past that a lot of people want to ignore. The mere fact that so many are willing to cover up his past is disturbing in it’s own right.
Perhaps Mr. Moran needs to change the title of his blog to “Nut House!”
206 Donna V . .. At least you had the guts to capitulate.
210 robotech master . . . “Is so! Is so!” without a single refutation. All gut wind. PatGund rules.
211 pragmatist . . . I didn’t post 201, and I made no claims to which you refer in my other posts. But I will pick up on your ad populem fallacy example . . . At one time 100 percent of right wing extremists thought Sarah Palin was an honorable and qualified candidate for president.
But there’s good news for RWEs . . . Glenn Beck sold 17 tickets in NYC to his big Christmas Sweater theater sissypalooza! Maybe the fact that he was charging $20 (twice the average ticket price) had something to do with it (and when we’re in a recession with millions out of work! Where ARE his populist principles?) Maybe because it’s a sniveling and transparent piece of sentimental hucksterism had something to do with it. Yes, indeed, all 17 sleeping giants in a city of 8 million are AWAKE AND MAD AS HELL! But that’s OK, he sold more tix in DC . . . 18.
Hail Rush. Go Sarah!
Dba Obama is quite likely an illegitimate president -
The entire matter can be easily put to rest by producing the phisical BC and having it examined by legal and forensic objective examiners – but…
The ENORMOUS DISPROPORTION BETWEEN A $15 RELEASE FEE and the 1.5 million already spent by Obama for obstructing this matter shows that there is something that Obama wants to be kept hidden from the America electorate –
Yet – “Eppur si muove”, “there isn’t such a thing like being kind of pregnant”, “the genie is out of bottle”, etc. – these words describe the predicament in which the Obamatons are -
Hey Rick, stopped reading your blog some time ago. Why’d you have to stink up this place too?
So she had a book ghost-written,
I don’t think so. It is entertaining, but there are certain grammatical mistakes and structural flaws that tell me that a professional ghostwriter didn’t write this. (I’ve ghostwritten chapters before. No, I can’t tell you for whom. Contract obligation.) It is written about like I would expect Sarah Palin to write: reasonably well, but it is certainly not the work of a professional.
Let’s see what I can do this morning. Watch bread rise or read another Rick Moran piece? Hmm. I think I’ll go watch the bread rise.
The main person who “MAINSTREAMS the Birthers” now is OBAMA himself, with his irrational (if, o.c. he has nothing to hide) behaviour. All those infamous “millions for lawyers” vs. “15 bucks for a piece of paper” mainstream the Birthers much more effectively than anything else.
A statement from the state of Hawaii is *not* a birth certificate. Rick, can you not understand that? Friends in high places can be made to say whatever they want; however, if a birth certificate exists – and it should – it should be released to the public for the public to read. Not only has Obama refused to do this, he has spent close to $2 million keeping his school records – even grammar school! – from being released. One would like him to answer “why.” If he’s all about transparency, then let us see his college records. Or his high school records. Anything. When you examine the cumulative evidence – refusal to basically release anything at all about his life – you begin to wonder: What’s he trying to hide? The common denominator in all of those records would be demographic data – eg, the place of his birth. So no, it isn’t a silly, stupid question. It’s a question that should be easily answerable, and as the president of the United States, he does, indeed, owe the people of this country that much. Especially since he campaigned on a policy of transparency.
114. Now and Then.
“73. Mr. Lucky:”
“Have they arrived yet? The “helpers?” If so you’re likely feeling a bit woozy. Fear not. It’s just their way of calming you down before they pace you on the gurney. I’m sure if you ask nicely they’ll let you take your baster. (Just don’t load it within their eyesight. They might write up a negative report, and you don’t want that when arrive at “The Farm.” Nice of them to give it such a nice name, don’t you think?)”
Did you work at a Soviet era psychiatric hospital? They did have quite a few turkeys, making diagnoses. And… Are “The Helpers” an alien race? Was that you in Cuckoo’s Nest, Nurse Turkey?
Come now you Handsome Mixed European – American Psychiatrist Turkey With a touch of Black, you know #73 is you’re baster provider Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever. He just saw Sybil again at the movie house with Inconvenient Truth in hand, and he’s adopted several more personalities in an attempt to forget the shame of donating the Funny Girl/Newsweek results to The Presidential Bast a Turkey stimulus program. Word has it he was last seen with a loaded baster strapped to himself running into the post office screaming “I’ll defile all you stupid, bigoted, hillbilly Christian people in sheep’s clothing.” Poor thing, I wonder if the shock of your good looks got to him.
Did the stimulus procedure work for you? Are you with little turkey?
So Mr. President didn’t eat you. The Disneyland consolation must have been nice. Good that you avoided Davy Crockett. Christmas is coming. Can’t win ‘em all.
Anvil is turning over.
Gobble gobble.
To 216. Now and Then
Being your one of the biggest trolls and idiots on this whole site(which is impressive) your whines are meaningless to me. I have no problem with debating PatGund… the problem is all of his current talking points have been proven wrong already.
The debate would last a handful of posts and PatGund wouldn’t be able to sit for weeks because I would have ridden him that hard.
You have been in past posts of this natural and in fact know that many of his points have been completely debunked on this very site. You can run around with your propaganda but most ppl who have come to this site for awhile know that your nothing but a troll who couldn’t debate his way out of a rubber band without reading the talking points straight from some democrat site.
Sarah Palin is honest, a proven leader, with intelligence, and good character.
Barack Obama’s nothing but a cheat and a phony, a walking, talking, big lie.
To 160. oscar the Grump and other Palin bashers: Palin did not lose the election for McCain. She is and will remain a target of Dems and some Republicans for a simple reason — no VP candidate ever moved the numbers on a ticket like she did when she was announced and made her first speech. It was something like 8 points…unheard of. The Obama campaign and the Democrats soiled their panties and unleashed their media lackeys to savage her in an unprecedented manner. Love her or hate her, the fact is that Palin draws crowds wherever she speaks, on the campaign trail and now even when she is out of office! She sold 500,000 books in her first week. This is what makes Dems and Republican weenies fear her. If you must go along with the trashing of Palin, at least understand what motivates those orchestrating it.
it doesn’t matter WHERE the fraud in the WH was born…he was educated in Indonesia where dual citizenship is forbidden. He had to give up his citizenship to be allowed to attend school there. The traitorous wretch flying around the world in America’s Air Force One sealed his documents for a reason, bird-brain. I’d lay even money he expects to find 70 virgins in heaven waiting for him, one day. By the way… Palin scares the peewaddly out of you for a reason, too. Collusion is contagious.
Obama and the Democrats should simply be attacked from every direction, in any way, on any grounds, that anyone can think of. Just keep pounding, and let anyone who figures out a new avenue try it out and see what comes of it. Whatever doesn’t work will fall by the wayside, but with this corrupt cult in power plenty will stick. Don’t lie, but feel free to speculate and put forward the possibilities that place your opponent in the worst light–demand that every “legitimate” question be addressed, and include unanswered questions in new questions–show patterns of evasion and concealment. What we can learn from the Democrats is that self-policing is unnecessary–very few people know or care about these issues, but if they become part of a larger “dossier” including observed failings in power, then they can help tilt things in your direction. Since the boundaries between “fringe” and “mainstream” have become obsolete, what matters will be how you govern, not how you get to power. The Democrats are blowing it, and the more outraged people get by their assault on the American economy and American security, the more credible all these “marginal” attacks will become–in the end, we will be able to paint a picture of active malevolence, rather than mere naivete and incompetence–perhaps it will even be possible to dash the Democrats’ electoral prospects for a generation. The Republicans became vulnerable to this mode of political warfare because they became mere caretakers of the welfare state, hoping to slant it a bit to keep themselves in power. Conservatives should help give them another chance in power by developing sophisticated strategies of political warfare, and then we have the slim hope that they can be pressured to behave differently next time. I don’t think our chances are great, but we do have a lot of fight left on our side, and our country is worth fighting for.
robotech master – You claim the “Constitutionalists” have refuted these points a long time ago.
Yet you provide no evidence to back up this claim.
I for one would very much like to see the evidence to claim refutes them. Do you have it? Or are you going to say “look for yourself??
206 Donna V . .. At least you had the guts to capitulate.
N & T, as I’ve said here many times, the issue doesn’t really interest me. I wasn’t a “birther” to begin with so I haven’t “capitulated.” Palin isn’t a birther either, all she said is that people have the right to raise the question.
Do keep working on those reading comprehension skills, N & T: someday you’ll make it to 4th grade level.
We know, of course, that leftists never “capitulate” in the face of an argument. Wven when the facts are obviously and completely against them, they’ll stick to their lies. This is called “being a cementhead.” You’re a perfect example.
Want to see some more poll numbers?
I think it is likely that Obama was born in Hawaii, and his birth certificate is embarrassing for some other reason–but you really should read the Hawai’i Dept. of Health web site, which lists the circumstances under which they will issue an “amended” birth certificate (one of the COLBs):
Does this change your impression of how bizarre it is Obama refuses to show the long-form birth certificate?
RICK:
“I didn’t want to write about Sarah Palin anymore.
Really, I didn’t want to. God, I didn’t want to. But every time I think I’m out, she pulls me back in.”
That doesn’t sound good, really. Already tried “12 STEPS”?
This is the kind of pedestrian thinking one expects from Rick Moran.
Hawaii allowed births to be registered by someone attesting to the birth rather than requiring the filing of a statement of live birth signed by the delivering doctor. Therefore, anyone who uses the term birther to describe those demanding the release of the original birth certificate is an idiot.
The likelihood is that the original birth certificate is not signed by the an attending physician and its release would therefore not resolve the question of where Obama was born.
The media’s treatment of this issue is the same as their treatment of the theory of AGW: don’t investigate and call people names if they ask questions.
Clayton E. Cramer – According to Hawaiian State Law, a birth certificate issued to someone born outside of the US (said law was passed in the 1980′s, after Obama was born), has to include the place they were born in. So an adopted child from Bali getting one of these would say “Bali” on the COFB (Certificate of Foreign Birth) issued, and it would say on it:
“The statement “This certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child or the parents named above.” [Eff. FEB 19 1981] (Auth: HRS Secs. 321-9, 338-2) (Imp: HRS Secs. 338-17.7(c), 338-20.5)”
See for yourself:
http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/11-120.pdf
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/
REPLY TO 248. Clayton E. Cramer: So the standard is that presidential candidates can hide Constitutionally-mandated information as long as it’s “embarassing.” Got it.
Patricia Van Valkenburg -
1) Under US law at the time (Nationality Act of 1940, Sections 401 & 407, 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3. sections 349 (a) and 355), a US citizen who is a minor cannot renounce their US citizenship or have it renounced for them by the parents.
2) Under Indonesian law at the time Obama’s mother married Lolo Soetoro, (Indonesian Law #62/1958), citizenship cannot be granted if it results in dual citizenship, nor can it be granted to an adopted child unless the child is under the age of five. Obama could not renounce his US citizenship at that age, and he was over the age limit according to Indonesian law. Therefore it would have been impossible for Indonesian citizenship to be granted under both US and Indonesian law.
3) In over a year of research I have yet to find anything in Indonesian law that states attendance at school is restricted to citizens only. Due to the sheer number of expats working in the oil industry there, I find it difficult to believe such a law would have existed in the first place. In addition, I have statements from people who were expat children there at the time and did attend school there. May I ask what your evidence is to support such a claim?
Back in August, I wrote this article attempting to analyze the consequences should it be conclusively established that President Obama was born in Kenya or, for that matter, on Mars. I do not “believe” that he was born in Kenya, nor do I “believe” that he was born in Hawaii; I have no beliefs on the matter. Beliefs are generally a matter of religion, including of course the religion of man made global warming.
The thrust of the article was that under the Constitution and laws, very little if anything could be done about it now that Obama has been elected, assumed office, and signed legislation. In the unlikely event that he were to be forced out of office, VP Biden would become the president and Speaker Pelosi would then be next in line after Biden to assume the presidency. No thanks.
There were 203 comments on the article, most of them berating me for raising the dumb “birther” issue, which I was trying to put to rest in favor of focusing on the disastrous things President Obama has done and is doing as the President. Overall, my take from the comments was that folks who despise the “birthers” do so because they fear they may be right and/or feel a commitment to stand up for President Obama no matter what. It is sort of like those who “believe” in man made global warming, and feel a need to disparage the “deniers.” A difference, of course, is that real evidence that man made global warming may be a gigantic scam is becoming plentiful, while real evidence that President Obama was not born in Hawaii is scanty. The production by birthers of documents later demonstrated to have been falsified has put them in much the same position as the global warming alarmists.
While I disagree with much said by Mr. Moran, particularly the morphing of Governor Palin (whom I like) into a “birther nut,” I very much agree that there are many more productive things to focus on than the place of President Obama’s birth.
So here seem unaware of an ancient legal doctrine called the “Two Witness Requirement.” It has its origins in Jewish law, and it states that no legal fact can be established without the testimony of two reliable witnesses. Thus, in order for a legal document, such as a birth certificate, to be valid and serve as proof of anything, it must be signed and dated by two witnesses other than the parents and the attending physician. To prevent conspirators from forging documents in secret with no way to refute them, all legal documents are subject to this requirement; the lack of witnesses on any released document means that they are worthless for establishing Obama’s qualifications. Likewise, the unverifiable testimony of a single witness at the Department of Vital Records is equally worthless.
Max – The English edition of de Vattel’s “Law of Nations” you’re linking to is the 1883 printing of the 1852 edition of Joseph Chitty. You might find this link easier to use
http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel.htm
The Constitution was written in 1787. Furthermore, the original french never used a phrase that translates into “natural-born citizens”
However, if you want to quibble about the use of plurals, then I will cite that very same edition of “Law of Nations”, Book 1, Chapter XIX, § 212. You cited:
“The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens”
Plural use of “parents”
“As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers”
Plural use of “fathers”. If you want to use the argument that de Vattel is the basis of the US Constitution, then using the same paragraph you cite, one is forced to conclude that natural-born citizenship should only be granted to those having two fathers.
Clayton:
Are you saying that Obama has an amended birth certificate? I’ve not heard this before. What is your evidence that his birth certificate was amended?
The thrust of the article was that under the Constitution and laws, very little if anything could be done about it now that Obama has been elected, assumed office, and signed legislation.
Surely, if proved ineligible, he would be hounded from office or impeached. At the very least he would be rendered a lame duck unable to pursue the radical agenda which is destroying the country.
In the unlikely event that he were to be forced out of office, VP Biden would become the president and Speaker Pelosi would then be next in line after Biden to assume the presidency. No thanks.
You are wrong on this point as well. Neither Biden nor Pelosi would have the media cloak of immunity from criticism which Obama is using to pursue a radical agenda. Biden has at least some common sense and Pelosi’s radicalism is transparent.
robotech master – (cool name, BTW), you’re more than welcome to provide me the evidence you claim refutes what I’ve said.
You may do it here, or you’re welcome to post it at my blog as well. I don’t edit or censor opposing points of view, so you’re quite safe in presenting there if you so choose. Otherwise, I’ll be happy to continue the conversation here.
However, I would like some evidence to back up your claims. So far all I’ve seen if is the claim it’s all been debunked, with nothing to back it up.
Overall, my take from the comments was that folks who despise the “birthers” do so because they fear they may be right and/or feel a commitment to stand up for President Obama no matter what.
Here’s something you may not realize. For reasoning people who go to the trouble of staying informed and putting their political ideology through the test of reason and fairness, nothing is more aggravating than a group of mob-like ignorant and hateful idiots demanding that their stupidity–a product of a bigoted belief system perpetuated by an abject allergy to self-analysis–be given equal treatment in the marketplace of idea. That is what most rational people hate about the birthers. What’s even more annoying is the people who obviously should know better but sacrifice their intellect on an altar of comforting prejudice.
mainwmn – Actually there have been several lawsuits, 62 at last report.
Of those cases, 60 have lost in the trial or original court, with two FOIA requests pending.
Of the 23 cases that have been appealed, 18 have been dismissed by the appeals court and 5 are pending.
Of the 10 that have been appealed to the US Supreme Court, 10 have been dismissed.
Of those 62 cases, Obama himself was the defendant in 3 of those cases and the US government defending in 7 of those cases.
All other cases were at the state official level (examples: Beverly v. FEC, Brockhausen v. Andrade, Broe v. Reed, Constitution Party v. Lingle, Donofrio v Wells, Greenberg v. Brunner, etc.)
So of the 62 cases, Obama’s attorneys were involved in 3 of the cases, and US attorneys in 7 cases. The other 52 were defended by the states in question, and paid for by the taxpayers of those states.
The bottom line is this: the Supreme Court denied cert. on the birth certificate case. Every court that looked at it turned it down.
Now, you can continue to focus on it and talk about and write about it – and you will have absolutely no effect. The rest of the country is not going to suddenly start caring about this matter.
Or you can use your energy to attack Obama on the issues and to support candidates who espouse true conservative principles.
What is really making the Dems sweat these days is the fact that Independents are leaving them in droves. The Independents are abandoning Obama and the Dems because of their destructive, high-tax, high-spend policies, not because they got the magic email that finally convinced them Barry’s not really American.
And, like Dan Miller said in his excellent post #254, be careful what you wish for:
In the unlikely event that he were to be forced out of office, VP Biden would become the president and Speaker Pelosi would then be next in line after Biden to assume the presidency.
re Comment #256 — but we were reliably informed by ABC’s Terry Moran (with a straight face) that President Obama does have two fathers, a Black man from Kenya and a White man from Kansas. So, it must be true; it was on ABC. As Mr. Moran said, “no matter what your politics, that is a moment for the history books.”
To 246. PatGund
Once again I find it funny how you ask me for proof but claim to be “well researched” in the topic.
Lets take your crazy idea of
“3) Several people have claimed that Obama’s name post adoption is “Barry Soetoro”. Indonesia is a mostly Islamic country, and the Islamic guidelines on adoption say that a child NEVER takes on the name of the adoptive parent. (It’s treated as more of a fosterage situation than what westerners would call an “adoption”. The adopted child is raised as a part of the family, but not as a member of the family. Key difference. If such an adoption took place, Obama’s last name would STILL be “Obama”.”
Now lets review some facts here.
1. it is well known that obama has gone by the name barry.
2. Before the whole constitutional argument came to the for forefront a MSM(think he was AP) reporter went to Indonesia to the school that obama went to. This produced a well known document(well known if as you claim have “well researched” this topic) in which obama name was listed as Barry Soetoro.
3. His religion was of course listed as muslim(because as you rightly point out indonesia is a muslim country and they follow mostly muslim law and thus obama would clearly be listed as muslim since he is/was a muslim).
Now once again lets view some facts.
1. Obama was NOT Indonesia.
2. Obama’s mom was NOT Indonesia or muslim.
3. Both Indonesia and the US would have paperwork for the adoption.
4. The paperwork could have different names for each country.
5. Since adoption had paperwork in the US the assumed strawmen claim that his mother didn’t change his name is just that… a strawmen.
6. Since the US, Indonesia and obama(the most secretive president in US history) has not provided any proof either way you are making a statement based solely on personal opinion…
Now since no one has ever claimed(even obama) that the school paperwork from Indonesia is a fake… It is clear that either someone named Barry Soetoro went to the same Indonesia school as obama AT THE SAME TIME and SAME AGE… or indeed obama went under the name Barry Soetoro.
Since their is a decent amount of proof that obama did in deed go by a different name 1. School records 2. Admits to using the name Barry instead of barack… however NO proof at all that a name change didn’t take place.
Now of course an easy way to provide proof would be to release some of his school record after he returned to the US to display that he did in fact goto school under the name barack obama. THIS HAS NOT BEEN DONE. So in the end run once again the proof(while minor) is strictly against you and obama who have zero proof of your claims…
Lets move onto another HUGE global warming the “science is settled” argument.
Lovely factcheck.org…
You make many many claims about it however you keep leaving out the facts.
1. Factcheck.org is indeed in the tank for obama.
2. Factcheck.org is not a media outlet.(expect for maybe crazy dems)
3. Factcheck.org has a long list of errors, omissions, partisan activity and writing story to imply facts that don’t exist.
4. How does factcheck.org know what a legal/fake/amended hawaii birth cert looks like.
Well number 4 is the biggest science issue here… so lets look at factchecks expert birth cert “fact checkers”.
1. Joe Miller has a Ph. D. in Political Philosophy
2. Jess Henig has an M.A. in English Literature
Now I know that your probably thinking “Well Joe Miller has a Political Philosophy degree he is surely an expert on documents and clearly would be completely above any partisanship.” And you’d of course be wrong.
At what scientific level are these people able to tell that obama birth cert is 1. real 2. Not amended… for that matter at what scientific level are these people able to tell that any document is real?
Now I have a criminal justice degree… part of doing classes for that degree I have gotten many classes in forensic science to include but not limited to fingerprints, DNA, blood splatter pattern, document authentication/forgery.
Now I’m no expert on the courses required to get a Ph. D. in Political Philosophy or a M.A. in English Literature… however I highly doubt it includes any forensic science classes at all let alone classes dealing solely with document authentication/forgery… but hey just like in global warming its not about facts or science but how big a degree you got…
So lets review how these “experts” went about authenticating obama COLB…. hmm lets see reading factcheck.org site the scientific process goes as following.
1. Take pictures of COLB.
2. Take zoomed in pictures of COLB.
3. Take zoomed in pictures of COLB with fingers.
4. Claim its completely real and valid.
Hmmm… now I’m not expert however in the classes I took that process was normally the way people claiming something is real but in reality it is a fake normally do it.
Now lets review… factcheck.org has 2 ppl who don’t know jack about authenticating documents… and who may never have before seeing the obama document ever seen a hawaii COLB…. claim that by taking pictures of said document and claiming it is real we should all believe the “experts”(much as with global warming) that the science is settled… Now crazy anti-science evil racist denier… I’d like to see the scientific process(if they even bothered to do more then step 1-4 listed above) so that I can review it.
To even claim that factcheck.org is even remotely able to authentic obama COLB is a joke.
Now of course you being “well researched” in this topic you have no doubt seen the very long and complete scientific process used to display that the COLB is fake… All of the process is open for everyone to see and is done by real experts in the field. You’ll forgive me if I take the sworn oath statements of ppl who testify in court for a living and who display they’re complete process of why they believe the document is fake… vs your claim that because 2 half wits say its real and thus you believe it.
SHOW ME THE SCIENCE…
A birther from the day this was brought up, I find the inability of morons such as the msm shills to actually, question, or see the truth annoying.
Moron, take a look at the birth certificate, that fake document that zero put out, take note of the race for the father. This fake says African, that is no more a race then American is a race. The term used back in 1961 to describe the black race was Negro, I do believe this is French for black.
The price of youth, arrogance and ignorance. Get a clue bud.
According to Hawaiian State Law, a birth certificate issued to someone born outside of the US (said law was passed in the 1980’s, after Obama was born), has to include the place they were born in.
Thank you. So why is Obama so adamant about not releasing the long form birth certificate? It would seem that the only plausible, legal reason for not releasing it is gone.
You wonder why the left always present a more united front ot the public then the right? You only have to read Moran’s article for an example why.
Whatever Palin said she didn’t say she believed the birthers, who in any case are better the the 9/11 crazies, she did say it was a valid campaign issue.
What’s the difference, let’s prove how objective we are and continue to cut our own throats.
Moran, there must be something more important out there for you to turn your considerable talents on. But then you do have to prove how moderate you are, a David Brooks wannabe.
Clayton:
Are you saying that Obama has an amended birth certificate? I’ve not heard this before. What is your evidence that his birth certificate was amended?
I was not making that claim. I was pointing out that you could get a Hawaiian birth certificate without being born in Hawaii. Pat Gund pointed me to a regulation that appears to require such reissued birth certificates to clearly identify the country of actual birth.
I am still utterly mystified by Obama’s unwillingness to expose the long-form birth certificate. There must be something very embarrassing there to justify the money that has been spent to not show it. One wild guess is that it doesn’t show Barack Obama, Sr. as the father. Another wild guess is that his race is shown as “white.”
I just want to know what is so important that it justifies spending enormous amounts of money to keep it secret–especially by someone who swore up and down during the campaign that he was committed to transparency.
One other possibility: he was born in Hawaii and had a SEX CHANGE and thus a reissued birth certificate! Somehow, I think it more likely that he was born on Mars.
As if to highlight my point, Old Soldier shows up with this:
This fake says African, that is no more a race then American is a race. The term used back in 1961 to describe the black race was Negro, I do believe this is French for black.
Clayton Cramer: I think it’s because Obama would prefer it if conservatives spin their wheels obsessing about an issue which doesn’t interest most of the country. Better that than asking hard questions about Obamacare, Cap and Trade, jobs, etc. If I were him I wouldn’t release it either. “Oh, look, a squirrel!”
Either that, or his mom originally gave him an uncool name. Elmer or something like that. A name unbefitting a “lightworker” who will save the planet.
1) Said Indonesian school record also gave a place of birth of “Honolulu, Hawaii”
2) Indonesia is a mostly-islamic country. So lets review how Islam handles adoptions, shall we?
http://islam.about.com/cs/parenting/a/adoption.htm
“The guardian/child relationship has specific rules under Islamic law, which render the relationship a bit different than what is common adoption practice today. The Islamic term for what is commonly called adoption is kafala, which comes from a word that means “to feed.” In essence, it describes more of a foster-parent relationship. Some of the rules in Islam surrounding this relationship:
An adopted child retains his or her own biological family name (surname) and does not change his or her name to match that of the adoptive family.
An adopted child inherits from his or her biological parents, not automatically from the adoptive parents.
When the child is grown, members of the adoptive family are not considered blood relatives, and are therefore not muhrim to him or her. “Muhrim” refers to a specific legal relationship that regulates marriage and other aspects of life. Essentially, members of the adoptive family would be permissible as possible marriage partners, and rules of modesty exist between the grown child and adoptive family members of the opposite sex.
If the child is provided with property/wealth from the biological family, adoptive parents are commanded to take care and not intermingle that property/wealth with their own. They serve merely as trustees.”
3) Yes, he has acknowledged using the name “Barry” as a childhood nickname. However, I doubt anyone would question my birth certificate based on the fact my parents called me “Patty-wack” as a child.
4) Obama’s mother was a US citizen, yes. And your point?
5) There is no evidence that any adoption of Barack Obama by Lolo Soetoro took place.
6) Let’s look at the people claiming the COLB posted on Obama’s campaign website is a forgery:
a) “TechDude” – No known real name, no proof of their background or claimed experience. No evidence they are who they say they are. Disappeared after claiming he found Maya Sotoro’s name in Obama’s Hawaiian COLB – a claim nobody else was able to verify.
b) “Polarik”, later “Ron Polarik”, and later on “Dr. Ron Polarik, Ph.D.” – Again, no known real name, no proof of their background or claimed experience. No evidence they are who they say they are. “Findings” presented does not conform to terminology used in the field he claims, shows a dismaying lack of knowledge in the use of graphics arts programmes. Believed to be Dr. Ronald Jay Polland. BA in Psychology, a Masters in Educational Research, and a Doctorate in Instructional Systems. None of which match the experience he claimed to have had. Results difficult to confirm, rather easy to disprove.
(Note to a & b – Dr. Neil Krawetz (who actually DOES image forensics) did a good analysis of both Polarik and TechDude’s claims:)
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/210-Bad-Science-How-Not-To-Do-Image-Analysis.html
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/235-Bad-Science-How-Not-To-Do-Image-Analysis-Part-II.html
c) “Steve Cee” – Again, no known real name, no proof of their background or claimed experience. No evidence they are who they say they are. “Findings” presented does not conform to terminology used in the field he claims. Claims to be a geneologist, shows little knowledge in that field, or in the field of graph analysis. Believed to be Steve Christiansen. Not listed as a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists. Results claimed also easy to disprove.
d) Sandra Lines – A known graphics expert. However, what she said was that one cannot confirm if a document is a forgery based on an on-line graphics image, which not only directly contradicts what “TechDude”, “Polarik”, or “Steve Cee” have claimed, but actually confirms what Dr. Neil Krawetz said months earlier.
So lets review how these “experts” went about claiming obama COLB was a forgery:
3 of the 4 haven’t even given their real names, proof of education or background, proof of any experience in forensic studies, or any other information to back up anything they claim. They’re nameless, faceless internet “experts”, and there’s more credible evidence to support the claim that Obama was born in Hawaii then there is to prove their identity. And the 4th backs up what a known and verified forensic expert said about the on-line document.
You claim there’s been a “very long and complete scientific process used to display that the COLB is fake” that was done by “real experts in the field”. However, there’s been no credible evidence to support either claim – the results of “TechDude” were never confirmed, and neither “Polarik” or “Steve Cee” have presented proof that has held up to review or verification. And we simply have no proof that 3 of the 4 people making that claim are “real experts” – or experts at all.
Oh, and N & T, let me toss you one last bouquet. This one is from your friends at Daily Kos:
“Nonpartisan pollster Research 2000 conducts a large-scale weekly poll for Daily Kos measuring voter sentiment toward key Republican and Democratic leaders and the parties (2,400 respondents, for a margin of error of 2 percent). Last week’s edition featured the typical generic congressional ballot test, and Democrats held a 37-32 advantage, not atypical compared to most other polling on that question. In its most recent polls, CNN had Democrats up 49-43, while Pew was at 47-42. And while Gallup bucked the trend, with Republicans up 48-44, those exact generic congressional numbers aren’t as important for the 2010 midterms as precisely who will turn out. And right now, it’s looking brutal for the Democrats.
For the first time, I had Research 2000 ask, “In the 2010 congressional elections, will you definitely vote, probably vote, not likely vote or definitely will not vote?” The results were nothing short of cataclysmic:
Among Republican respondents, 81 percent said they were definitely or probably going to vote, versus only 14 percent who were definitely or not likely to do so. Among independent voters, it was 65-23. Among Democrats? A woeful 56-40: Two out of every five Democrats are currently unlikely to vote. ”
The GOP and independents are rarin’ to get to the polls and the Dems want to curl up in the corner with a doobie and “1001 Ways to Save the Planet” – not because the birthers have convinced anybody of anything but because Barry and the Dems are doing a sucky job. Let’s keep pointing that out.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Look at this link and tell me if any of the hysteria about the birth certificate passes the smell test. The idea that Obama has fueled the fire of speculation by not giving his long form birth certificate rests on several specious assumptions:
1) That he in fact has access to the long form birth certificate. He may have lost it at some point in his life. In any case, the state of Hawaii only issues the document that Obama has shown, it does not have a request form for a photocopy of the original birth certificate, you’ll see this if you actually read the information at the link.
2) That Obama has any obligation to show birther-clowns anything else. He has fulfilled the requirements to prove that he is a citizen. I find it unusual that having done so, he must show more proof than would be required –or indeed has been required–of anyone else who sought and/or filled the position. Rest assured that to reasonable people these “lingering doubts” generally can only mean one thing–bigotry. There are few other conclusions that can be drawn. We have legal standards of proof in this country exactly to prevent this kind of mindless hysteria–so that, following Clayton’s tongue in cheek assertion, you can show someone your driver’s license or birth certificate to prove that you are biologically male/female, rather than dropping your drawers.
#95 jharp,
Exactly what criticism are you leveling at Sarah Palin? That you think she is ignorant? You say she didn’t know the responsibilities of the office she was running for. How so? Did you confuse her with her opponent during their debate? What makes her ignorant and you not ignorant? Oh I forgot, the ignorant support Palin and you don’t, so you can’t be ignorant. Since you are not ignorant, tell me what was ignorant in my opininion of Moran’s article. A rebuttal of my thesis might be more likely to help reduce my ignorance than an assertion that, by your definition, Palin and all her supporters are ignorant. First though, in order to avoid the appearance of ignorance, maybe you should try actually reading Moran’s article and my post.
Actually, Palin has *not* produced a birth certificate for Trig, despite claiming that she has.
(And for those who say that children should be kept out of the political arena, clearly Palin doesn’t agree. She holds Trig for every photo op and then promptly hands him off to an aid.)
The obamabots at Fact Check claimed that they held Obama’s birth certificate in their bare hands. Apparently the idiots at Fact Check do not know the difference between a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth.
/260. Anon (= 209. Commuter)
Here’s something you may not realize. For reasoning people who go to the trouble of staying informed and putting their political ideology through the test of reason and fairness, nothing is more aggravating than a group of mob-like ignorant and hateful idiots demanding that their stupidity–a product of a bigoted belief system perpetuated by an abject allergy to self-analysis–be given equal treatment in the marketplace of idea. What’s even more annoying is the people who obviously should know better but sacrifice their intellect on an altar of comforting prejudice./
LOOK, A LIBTARD FINALLY ADMITS GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX!
So, asking for a potential candidates records of birth, origin, acedamia, his past associations, current associations and other important facts is ‘stupid’? The stupid one in this article is the author. Obama has had all his records SEALED. Curious, huh? We know what grade point average Bush had, what about Obama, he’s so freakin’ intelligent, right? Why is it that no one can even remember him at Columbia? How ’bout the fact that the Class of ’83′s Valedictorian who had a B+/A- grade average was told he’d never get into Harvard, yet Obama did, but wasn’t Valedictorian? hmmm? And that same person, who had the same major as Obama says he had never even heard of him? How’d he get into Harvard if he was nonexistent at Columbia? THESE are the ‘truths’ people are really interested in. The only reason the ‘birth certificate’ issue is even an issue at all is because he’s had those records (along with his adoption, citizenship/school records out of country, passport, SS# & Selective Service records) all SEALED! Why would anyone do that? Only if they have something to hide, that’s why. The same criteria used to prove that Alex Haley did not write “Roots” was used on BHO’s supposed authorship of ‘Dreams’…and guess what? It’s nearly word for word identical to the style and even verbage of Bill Ayer’s work. In Ayer’s long list of works, there is a convenient gap in there where Dreams fits perfectly.
Yes, America should have gotten ALL the facts on this nobody from nowhere before voting. People are now experiencing ‘voters remorse’, and desperately trying to scrape Obama stickers off there cars. To say that it is wrong to NOT ask these important questions is stupid. YOU may think it’s okay to by a pig in a poke, but I want to know just who is asking for my confidence. If they are not candid with me, if they are secretive, if they are one bit deceptive in their behaviors…how can I trust them to do right by me and mine?
I’ve been married to a cop for almost 30 years, I’ve also got some family members who will always be on the other side of the law…trust me, you can always tell who a person REALLY is by the company he keeps. Obama is a liar when he says that those ‘just neighbors’ of his didn’t mean anything. The people who believed him are fools. If he hadn’t had ACORN faking votes for him, we’d not be having this debate now.
Grow up and take the blinders off. Stop drinking the kool-aid. The nation is in danger from this man and his agenda. We NEED someone who is willing to get their hands dirty and do some real work to make things right.
260. Anon.
Classic.
“That is what most rational people hate about the birthers. ”
“…rational people hate..” Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever must be rational, at least by his mirror’s definition.
Is Van Jones rational? Were those muggers rational?
Hey Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever, is Turn up the Heat your take on Global Warming? Inconvenient truth in hand? Where? Oh that! Rip off a name, quick! Go!
270. Anon.
On no, someone said… Negro!!!! Almost like “… rational people hate…”! Almost like…………….hillbilly. I’m telling Mr. President. Then I can have a free beer at his house.
To 272. PatGund
So your your admitting that you were wrong on both counts then.
Re: “The PRESIDENT of the United States has not produced any birth verification document that would be accepted for military enlistment OR of birth verification of the sort that would be required for a security clearance. A Private could not join the Army with the documents Obama waves at us.”
The Certification of Live Birth is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by all the branches of the military.
Don’t you stupid wingnuts realize that the science… OOPS, I mean the BIRTHPLACE, is settled?!
How dare you ask questions you have been told repeatedly not to ask, like how come Obama wrote such a polished first book and everything else he wrote is dreck, or how he recovered from the Sunday-morning deafness that afflicted him for 20 years? That’s why we need a strong MSM to execute their Constitutional responsibility to filter out questions that it has been decided are too disrespectful, and must not be asked (except about Sarah Palin). That’s what free speech is all about, you stupid wingnuts!
Apparently the idiots at Fact Check do not know the difference between a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth.
This is called a distinction without a difference you obtuse moron.
/276. coyote:
Actually, Palin has *not* produced a birth certificate for Trig, despite claiming that she has./
Thank you! We’ll remember that WHEN TRIG WILL BECOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA.
You ALL are missing Sullivan’s point.
Palin said she produced Trig’s birth certificate.
Palin LIED, again. She did not produce Trig’s birth certificate.
I loved the THREE THOUSAND DOLLAR check she sent each of us in Alaska in July of 2008.
For a family of 5, we got FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!!
Of course, she raised taxes on businesses in Alaska to get the money.
could it be that Obama won’t produce the BC precisely BECAUSE he and his advisors know that the issue will make a substantial wing of the Republicans look and sound crazy to the overall American public?
Re: “College transcripts for McCain, Kerry,Bush, and Gore have been made public..”
Not true. No president has ever released his transcript, which means the exact marks in all the courses. A few, not including McCain, have released their grade point averages. Obama didn’t, probably because it was unnecessary, perhaps because he thought it would have been “rubbing it in” over McCain. In any case, his grades were good enough to get him into Harvard Law School, from which he graduated Magna Cum Laude.
/272. PatGund/
SCIENCE IS SETTLED, heh?
Thank you! We’ll remember that WHEN TRIG WILL BECOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA.
I wouldn’t put it past these idiots. I don’t if anyone could more closely approximate their thought patterns than Trig Palin.
Is this idiot serious? Here’s all that need be done by Obama: show us the paper.
If you were asked to produce your birth certificate to prove you could be president, would you fight it or send it right over? How hard is this?
And besides, I can’t believe that every president to date hasn’t had to produce his birth certificate in order to get on the ballot. It covers the only two requirements: age and place of birth.
This moronic piece is proof positive that blind hatred something can indeed blind you to everything.
probably because it was unnecessary, perhaps because he thought it would have been “rubbing it in” over McCain.
LOL. prolly you’re a genius.
coyote: (Good nic for you, it reminds me of the coyote who was forever falling off cliffs and slamming into buildings in pursuit of the Roadunner).
The dates make it impossible that Bristol is Trig’s mother. Libs favor sex ed in schools and yet, apparently, they slept through the parts relating to female reproduction. Let me put this delicately: a woman who has just given birth is in no condition to have intercourse again for at least 6 -8 weeks.
And teenagers do not give birth to Down syndrome babies. Women in their 40′s are at high risk for doing so. Nor do all women “show,” even women whose pregnancies are fairly advanced.
There. Is there anything else related to the birds and the bees you would like to know? Here’s a tip: Andrew Sullivan is an unreliable source in this area, as he definitely slept through the parts relating to hetereosexual reproduction.
In any case, his grades were good enough to get him into Harvard Law School, from which he graduated Magna Cum Laude.
I’m positive affirmative action had nothing to do with any of it.
Lou Gisi do some fact checking yourself. When I applied for Social Security benefits I was forced to produce my Original Cooke County Il Official Birth Certficate (complete with Official government stamp). This after 50 years as a working natural born citizen of the USA, paying into SS, or get no benefits at retirement at all. I did what SS requested, even though it was caused by an error on their part, not mine. It took me one month to clear this small mistake and at my cost, not theirs. POINT? Obama could have and should have cleared up this whole mess in one hour and put it all to rest. He still refuses. Why? Even SS would not accept my ‘short term’ birth certificate. Why does a man running for the Presidency get away with it. This isn’t about race – I’am white and that didn’t help me at all. Obama should be Happy to comply with this simple request, and open all his school records too (which he should be proud of), but he hides it ALL! Something is very wrong here. As for Rick Moran – good lord man – you are way too lost in the blogosphere! Buy a good bottle of cognac, whiskey, anything you like – sit in your favorite chair for the day or weekend and clear your fogged out brain. You’re over the edge and need to pull back. Your article was pathetic.
Alaska JD: do you believe that Palin is not Trig’s mother?
like how come Obama wrote such a polished first book and everything else he wrote is dreck, or how he recovered from the Sunday-morning deafness that afflicted him for 20 years? That’s why we need a strong MSM to execute their Constitutional responsibility to filter out questions
What a hilarious admission of what you consider to be serious and necessary points of political discourse. They should also check his dog to see if it really is neutered, don’t you think?
Funny how there is mass hysteria over all of the ‘lies’ told by Obama, but most people here are overlooking the fact that Palin blatantly lied when she said “And that weird conspiracy theory freaky thing that people talk about that Trig isn’t my real son, and a lot of people that went “Well, you need to produce his birth certificate, you need to prove that he’s your kid,” WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but yeah, so maybe we can reverse that, and use the same [inaudible] thinking on the other one.”
Could someone please link me to a copy of Trig’s birth certificate, certificate of live birth, certification of live birth, report of live birth, short form, long form, anything? How about a mere record from a hospital showing he was born there? Any newspaper announcement that are printed from hospital information as in Obama’s case?
I don’t care if Sarah Palin is Trig’s mom or if he sprang from the skull of an endangered/non-endangered polar bear or if he was found under a cabbage leaf. I do have a problem with her complete and utter detachment from the truth.
Oh, and those medical records she assured Brian Williams she’d release–that link would be interesting, too.
/269. Clayton E. Cramer:
One other possibility: he was born in Hawaii and had a SEX CHANGE and thus a reissued birth certificate! Somehow, I think it more likely that he was born on Mars./
Where have you studied? In HARVARD? THERE IS NO LIFE ON MARS!!!!
However, there are life forms on FERENGINAR.
And it’s scientifically possible, that a FERENGI, coming to Earth, can pretend being “just a guy from Hawai”, or “from Illinois”, or “from Kenya”, or “from all the three places at the same time”… (yes, Ferengi ARE smart).
(That stuff with SEX CHANGE is your pervert fantasie, isn’t it? I just don’t wanna discuss another conspiracy theory, that about certain KLINGON MALES pretending to be human females. So, please, keep your pervert dreams for yourself. Thanks)
279 Suzi:
We NEED someone who is willing to get their hands dirty and do some real work to make things right
But obsessing about bambi’s birth cert. “isn’t going to make things right.” Exposing his rotten agenda and electing true conservatives will.
I know where the birthers are coming from. The left played incredibly dirty pool for 8 years and it’s tempting for us to throw everything but the kitchen sink at Obama as payback. But the Dems who screamed about the 2000 election and told lies about Bush’s National Guard Service and came up with stupid 9/11 conspiracy theories – still lost to Dubya in 2004.
Bush and the GOP lost ground beginning in 2006, not because people suddenly got mad about the 2000 elections. They were upset about the economy and the war. They were angry because the GOP was acting no differently than the Dems.
Now, a year later, many, many people who voted for Obama are experiencing buyer’s remorse. But it has NOTHING to do with bambi’s birth certificate and everything to do with the fact that he and the Dems are total screw-ups.
And, as as been pointed out, if, in the very, very unlikely event Obama had to step down – you’d get Biden and Pelosi as President and VP. That prospect, in and of itself, makes me pray for bambi’s good health every day.
//286. Alaska JD:
I loved the THREE THOUSAND DOLLAR check she sent each of us in Alaska in July of 2008.
For a family of 5, we got FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!!
Of course, she raised taxes on businesses in Alaska to get the money.//
“And we thought it was so bad, that now we support a guy that wants to raise EVEN MORE taxes on businesses, in America, to get EVEN MORE money. And we are not even sure whether he’ll give it TO US, like Sarah Palin did, but who cares? At least WE ARE SMART, and the Right Wingers are STOOOOPID”.
“P.S. And our bears in Alaska DO FALL FROM THE SKY, you STOOPID deniars!”
Rick, re O’s birth certificate. Can you provide a rational reason why O’s birth certificate (the original that includes the hospital, attending physician,etc. NOT the certificate of live birth) has not been released? And, why is he spending $1M plus on attorneys to keep it locked up? I don’t stay awake at night worrying about it, just another unknown in the long list of O’s curiosities..
I’m not so generous. If someone is spending $1 million or more to lock up personal data about himself – he has something to hide. It really is that simple. Obama hung around with crooks and criminals in Chicago, and had good friends among terrorists. Now that you have elected the scum, you should be able to connect the dots. Especially you, Mr. Moran.
Palin just took a poisoned knife and twisted it in Obama’s back – by making asking for his long form birth certificate – something he should have willingly provided, like McCain did – a legitimate issue. She doesn’t have to pursue the issue further.
I learned a long time ago that just because someone talks like they are from Minnesota doesn’t mean they are stupid. It means they probably know how to suffer through a cold ass while ice-fishing and that they can probably drink you under the table.
//290. moho:
(Thank you! We’ll remember that WHEN TRIG WILL BECOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA.)
I wouldn’t put it past these idiots. I don’t if anyone could more closely approximate their thought patterns than Trig Palin.//
Yeah, and I still don’t understand why do they want to annihilate Trig and all the other Down Syndrom children (“OVERPOPULATION”!!!!!). But, on the other hand, THEY VOTED FOR OBAMA – Democrats don’t possess any logical pattern. We have to accept it as a scientific fact.
kim in tn: do you think Palin is not Trig’s mother?
//298. kim_tn:
Could someone please link me to a copy of Trig’s birth certificate, certificate of live birth, certification of live birth, report of live birth, short form, long form, anything? How about a mere record from a hospital showing he was born there? Any newspaper announcement that are printed from hospital information as in Obama’s case?//
I KNEW IT! For the Dems Trig and Obama are on the same level of political significance. I just had no idea Trig has already been nominated as a candidate for 2012. My fault. Should watch more of Jon Stuart to stay informed.
In any case, his grades were good enough to get him into Harvard Law School…
In fact, they probably weren’t. He graduated from Columbia without honors (not even departmental honors) which means his GPA was below standard for HLS. There were, perhaps, other considerations?
That stuff with SEX CHANGE is your pervert fantasie, isn’t it?
I thought the remarks about being from Mars would have been enough to clarify that I found this most unlikely.
And teenagers do not give birth to Down syndrome babies. Women in their 40’s are at high risk for doing so.
To pick a nit: teenagers are at very, very low risk of giving birth to Down syndrome babies, while older mothers are at higher risk. But to say that teenagers “do not” give birth to Down syndrome babies is not quite correct. See this table. For females aged 15-19, the ratio of Down syndrome births to normal births is 1/1250, dropping to 1/1400 for females aged 20-24. Starting at 40, the ratio gets rather worrisome: 1/100, and as bad as 1/25 for women 45 and older.
290. moho.
“What a hilarious admission of what you consider to be serious and necessary points of political discourse. They should also check his dog to see if it really is neutered, don’t you think?”
297. Anon.
“I wouldn’t put it past these idiots. I don’t if anyone could more closely approximate their thought patterns than Trig Palin.”
Anyone notice the difference? Which one is the Twilight Zone Dummy and which one is handler in the mirror?
There is certainty – they both belong to the Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever consort.
Van Jones? He doesn’t exist. Inconvenient Truth.
First of all, I do not think Bristol is his mother AND I think what was done to that child was obscene. Adults trolling myspace trying to dig up dirt on children is beyond the pale.
That said, I think that Palin’s whole account of the birth of Trig is bizarre, at best. She has changed the story a few times, which makes no sense to me at all. My youngest child is nine years old and I can still tell you what happened during the day leading up to his birth, as I can with my other two. The photos of her when she was mere weeks or days from delivering are also a bit strange–if you look at earlier pictures of her during her pregnancies, she was very, very visibly pregnant much earlier than she was when she announced at 7 months she was pregnant with Trig. Generally the more pregnancies you have, the looser the abdomen muscles and the earlier you show; however, I can also see where in her job as governor she would have gained very little weight due to her public role and the media attention and photos–I’d sure not want to be all over the state’s newspapers 8 months pregnant and wearing mumus.
So, like Obama, the public has enough oddities and crossed information that there is at least the air of incredulity about the situations. Why did she not release her medical records? Why is there no record of Trig being born in a local hospital? Who in her right mind would give a speech while leaking fluid, then make a trip that took a minimum of 8 hours to deliver? And what kind of doctor would be party to that? The answers could be simply she had something potentially embarassing in her medical records, she asked the hospital not to publish an announcement or release info, she’s someone who is used to doing things HER way and doesn’t want to be perceived as weak, she wasn’t in active labor, her doctor didn’t agree with her plan, but didn’t want to embarass her. Who knows? No one does because she either won’t provide verifiable information or she changes her story or, in the most recent example she flat out lies about it.
She could have put all this to rest and saved her daughter the pain of public humiliation by releasing a birth certificate and her records. As a mother, I find it unimaginable that I wouldn’t do something like that to keep my daughter out of the line of fire, but I’ve also never been caught up in the glare of a national political campaign, so who knows how that affects one’s sense of reason.
In answer to your question–until there is proof otherwise, yes I believe she is his mother, but if I turn on the news Monday morning and find out that there was some other truth, I would not be totally shocked–does that make sense?
I believe Obama was born in Hawaii and, as someone who has no copy of her long form certificate of live birth, I don’t see a big problem with what has been suppleid and that Kenyan ‘birth certificate’ has been proven to be a completely bogus hack job. The newspaper accounts combined with the verification by Hawaii officials and the laws of Hawaii seem very clear cut to me. Hawaii doesn’t provide long forms to citizens, so I don’t see what the fuss is. I think it is utterly unbelievable that if there was something in the state’s records that could prove Obama to be ineligible for office that it would not have been leaked by now. Farrah Fawcett’s medical records were plastered all over the tabloids–no way someone would pass on the chance to make big bucks off of an Obama nationality bombshell if it was in existence. No way.
I also don’t think the Columbia mystery is that mysterious, either. I am not in any yearbooks from my college years and other than my immediate circle of friends, I’m quite sure that no one would remember me at the University of Tennessee, either. It’s not like it was yesterday or at the local community college with a couple of hundred kids. The tempest in a teapot about natural born citizen seems to me to be a lot of legal-eagle-wannabes dreaming up new interpretations of what ‘natural born’ means. Smokescreens, IMO.
I do agree with Rick 100 percent that Palin has seriously damaged her credibility with the mainstream voters by seeming to support the Birther conspiracies. I don’t know a single person that believes there is anything to the theory and I am friends with far more Republicans/Palin supporters than Democrat/Obama supporters. I read blogs of all persuasions and affiliations and, like it or not, there is definitely an air of ‘kook’ surrounding the birthers and the truthers. That doesn’t serve someone who wants to be taken as a serious political mind well at all.
Um, wow, this turned out to be much longer than I intended it to be. Sorry about that
.
Where on God’s green Earth did I get the notion that Rick Moran was somebody I wanted to heed?
Did you listen to the interview in question? I did. AQnd you are way off base.
Now I have to re-evaluate all of the Pajamas Media people I read. I’ve always been suspicious of that name.
True, Clayton. It’s not impossible but it’s very, very unlikely.
The question of where a presidental candidate was born has pertinence to the office, even if I think the birthers are wasting energy focusing on it. Trig Palin’s birth certificate has no pertinence whatsoever except in the minds of the ugly and spiteful b*tches of both sexes who simply want to attack Palin, not only as a politician, but as a mother.
Marina–absolutely right that it is apples and oranges–no question. My issue is with Palin’s honesty. She either did or did not provide Trig’s birth certificate. Period. She says she did, but she hasn’t. That’s a lie. If she thinks it is something that is off limits, then why didn’t she say THAT? Why did she lie and say she had provided a copy of his birth certificate? Can you show where she has done that? That’s all I was asking. If she hasn’t, she lied.
Personally, I think she realizes she lied and that’s why she posted the backpeddle on her Facebook. I don’t think she’s worried about being labeled a “birther”. I think she realized she wasn’t going to get away with that lie and wants to deflect attention. Well, that and her handlers probably went into orbit when they realized how she was going to get shredded in the press.
Like I said, I don’t care if she’s his mother or not in the grand scheme of things. I care about her being honest or dishonest.
220. vivo: “Join the crowd or perish.”
Really? Is that what being an American citizen has come to these days? No thanks.
qgs72 #295–for a US passport, a so-called ‘short form’ is acceptable. I went the health department here and paid seven bucks for one to get my passport and my son’s. The certificates have the child’s name, the parents’ names, the county of birth, the date. That’s is. Not even the city, much less the hospital or a doctor’s signature or anything of that sort. No embossed seal or any other other special markings. If it’s enough to get a passport, then it should certainly suffice to prove residency for an election.
/297. Anon (= Commuter):
They should also check his dog to see if it really is neutered, don’t you think?/
HIS DOG IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT? Guys, Dems have finally found someone not as retarded as their Teleprompter of the United States as a candidate! I don’t know whether it knows HOW MANY STATES ARE THERE IN THE COUNTRY HE’S GOING TO REPRESENT, but it definitely DOESN’T BELIEVE IN THE AGW, what already makes it way smarter than the present Retard-in-Chief:
Marina, have you ever been interviewed by the press or made any sort of statement in front of a large group of press members? Cause I have–I was elected to office and at times when you’re in that situation, you say stupid things. You don’t seriously think Obama didn’t know how many states there are, do you? If you do, do you also think Palin doesn’t know the difference between Iran and Iraq? Both are ridiculous.
In fact, they probably weren’t.He graduated from Columbia without honors (not even departmental honors) which means his GPA was below standard for HLS. There were, perhaps, other considerations?
You actually have no idea what they were. Obama transferred to COlumbia in his second year; you can’t graduate from Columbia with honors if you’ve only gone there two years. Show some evidence or get off the pot. I actually think Obama is as mediocre as any American President, the only ones who’ve been brilliant men, whatever their policies, were Johnson and Nixon in the current era. But this constant ejaculatory fascination with the most meaningless factoids about Obama’s life is the sure mark of individuals who are completely ignorant of current events to speak of instead.
Now I have to re-evaluate all of the Pajamas Media people I read.
Heaven forbid you use your critical faculties, rather than simply absorbing anything written by anyone who shares your political beliefs.
robotech master:- I admit no such thing. There is nothing I said that contradicts anything I said before. Care to point out where I supposedly misspoke?
Also, care to tell me what the “long scientific process” that was used to prove the COLB image was a fake and who those “real experts” were that you claim? Because of the four big names making that claim, we don’t even know the real identity of three of them, and the forth didn’t say anything Dr. Neil Krawetz already said.
kim_tn – Yep. Both my certificate and my daughters certificate say “Certificate of Live Birth”, issued from the states we were born in.
State Department accepted them with no problems and gave us our passports.
317. kim_tn
YOU ARE KIDDING ME, RIGHT?
Have you ever heard this retard without his telepropmter?
Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9hZpJp7U3Y
It’s ca. 4:26.
Have fun.
317. kim_tn:
I don’t think he knew how many states there are. if it was just one gaff it would be understandable …but only biden made more gaffs (probably not gaffs to those two) and they cannot say they had not been in front of cameras and crowds much.
the POTUS is a narcissit and an idiot.
Ruvy – You do know that McCain not only never provided his birth certificate, but actually fought (and won) a court case that was seeking it.
Google Robinson v Bowen, case # 3:2008cv03836, California Northern District Federal Court for more information. The plaintiff was Markham Robinson of the American Independent Party.
qgs72 – From the Social Security Website
For an original card:
Citizenship
We can accept only certain documents as proof of U.S. citizenship. These include a U.S. birth certificate, U.S. consular report of birth, U.S. passport, Certificate of Naturalization or Certificate of Citizenship.
The COLB is what the State of Hawaii uses for a legal birth certificate, therefore it meets the Social Security Department’s requirements.
Also, Social Security will accept those documents for a corrected or replacement card if citizenship has not already been established.
Rick – Without taking a stand on the issue, I need not point we have just experience a momentous scandal in science (Climategate) because the so-called scientists would not release the original data. President Obama can put this all to rest very simply: have the State of Hawaii release the original birth data as stored in their records (not just the Certificate).
kim_tn: The difference is that Obama’s (and Biden’s) slip of the tongue are treated like slips of the tongue by the media and the Left. Palin’s (and Bush’s and McCain’s) verbal slips were and are treated as proof of stupidity. Good God, even Bush’s choking on a pretzel was used as proof he was dumb instead of being treated as something that could happen to anybody.
It is that difference in media treatment that I think accounts for much of the frustration among birthers. I think this focus on Obama’s birth cert. is counter-productive, but I can understand the temptation to play the birth cert card, because the last 9 years taught us the left has absolutely no qualms about hitting below the belt.
And it’s scientifically possible, that a FERENGI, coming to Earth, can pretend being “just a guy from Hawai” [...]
I thought I read somewhere that the Ferengi are basically capitalists. I’m thinking you’ll have to find a different ST:TNG group.
Mr. Moran,
Did you even listen to the interview and then read the transcript? And, did you read Mrs. Palin’s Facebook post.
Yes, it’s fringe, but YES, they have a right to pursue it. Obama was probably born in Hawaii and I believe it is foolish to challenge it at this point because he has been President for like 11 months. However, he never showed us his transcripts, what he wrote at Harvard Law Review, etc.
Palin’s point was that he was not vetted and has questionable associations that now shed light on why he is acting the way is doing as POTUS.
kim_tn at 310 @ 315 Try reading the Constitution at least once in your life – learn something (tempest in a teapot). As for the ease with which you recieved your passport – possibly an error or the Governments kindly attempt to get you out of the country as quickly as possible. Another thing – you talk too much. Please try a move to Alaska. Say hello to Sarah.
All Obamatrolls on the deck! all Obamatrolls on the deck! We entered under severe fire! All hands on the deck!
Tell you, Obamatons, Sarah Palin spooked the hell out of you!
The last time I saw such a furios swarm of Obamatrolls on a PJM article was more that an year ago, when the Franziskus registration page hit the fan – wow! now that was an agglomeration, the type of the return of the Japanese airplanes at Midway -
Seems to me that Palin, whether intentionally or by chance, really struck a raw nerve of the public Obamapsyche, made you realize how vulnerable you are – so keep jamming the place, but i’d say, save your energies for later, because -
Dba Obama is less than one year in his term and went under %50 approval-wise and day-in-day-out, home and abroad he is provede as inept, then… this legitimacy question – not only it doesn’t go away but it grows and grows!
So, save your energies for the impeachment’s day -
318 anon.: I’m interested in your choices of Nixon and Johnson as the only 2 brilliant presidents of the modern era. Nixon certainly was a wily fellow, but why Johnson?
He was ruthless and very effective in the Senate. I’m not sure I’d call him brilliant. I think he had a sort of primal instinct when it came to handling power.
In the 20th century, probably the president with the most book-smarts was Wilson. And he was a dreadful president in many ways, which shows how much book-smarts mean in that office.
Rick, the Moran, can’t spell.
Although he did fluke the one that he and those other sufferers of the FasciSSocialist Psychosis who inhabit the fringes of American politics, usually don’t realize how psychotic he and his ilk truly are.
Palin Derangement Syndrome is but one of his underlying malaise’s identifying symptoms. Pathological Projection Syndrome is another. As is being a lock-stepping Goebbelsesque propaganda/pamphleteer pretender to entitlement to the possession of a press pass.
All three are on display here.
MAN! These Uniformly-Alinskyist lunatic left-wing-fringe-dwelling creeps are surely deathly afraid of United States of America’s President and Armed-Forces Commander-In-Chief-Elect, Sarah Louise Heath Palin!
Good sign!
PALIN/PETRAEUS/2012!
RE #112/John “birther” Samford:
[...] Nobody knows what happens when POTUS is not authorized to sign the bill.
forgery
n. 1) the crime of creating a false document, altering a document, or writing a false signature for the illegal benefit of the person making the forgery. [...]
[...]
A President can be impeached for forgery. Especially if he knew he wasn’t authorized to sign the document. [...]
Agree – and before this, we can ALSO look at the financial scam accusation, i.e., in Obama’s case his rising funds (his famous $700 millions), from unsuspecting citizenry for electoral puroses while FULLY AWARE that he was ineligible for the position he was running to, charge that can be dismissed only through the production of a BC – and this type of approach removes the obstacle of “standing” because such challenges can be filed by any disappointed donor – yes, there is direct harm, I sent him three times $100, ok?
I alway said that Obama’s undoing will come not from frontal attacks on his illegitimacy, but through side legal operations of the type that have placed Al Capone behind bars – like tax evasion.
Best regards -
RE #162/chukalukabus Re Wolla Dalbo:
[...] there were 2 certifications of validation of nomination signed in Denver after the kenyan’s nomination. One stated that obama was constitutionally certified to run for president, the other, signed off on about 20 minutes later, lost the constitutional wording. [...] This same documentation, which is subject to certification by the proper state authority in the other 49 states… was never even submited. [...]
Hedging… with all those conservative demons around, you never know, it’s better to be prudent…
/328. jdm:
I thought I read somewhere that the Ferengi are basically capitalists./
JUST LIKE AMERICANS. But on the other hand, you have Obamas, Pelosis, Clintons…
/I’m thinking you’ll have to find a different ST:TNG group./
It’s the question of APPEARANCE. There are things you just can’t hide, even in such a big galaxy.
For a guy who says he doesn’t want to write about Sarah Palin, you sure spend an awfull lot of time writing about her.
Are you sure it’s not compulsive?
Rick Moran – GO AWAY and stick your Fifth Column apologizing for the most secretive “president” attitude with you. You WILL eat crow. How about you go research DUAL CITIZEN?
qgs72: which part of what I said do you find contrast to the Constitution, oh wise Constitutional sage?
I talk too much because unlike you, I try to look at both sides objectively and assess the points made by both camps and sort the wheat from the chaff. I don’t just have a knee jerk reaction to inflammatory blog inestigations.
You use typical deflection argument of someone who has no leg to stand on in a flawed premise such as yours that Obama’s certificate is somehow not up to federally accepted standards for proof of citizenship—just attack me as if I’m an enemy of the state. LMAO. I’ve taken law classes–have you? Can you cite precedence to back up your claim that the son of an American citizen born in Hawaii is somehow NOT an American citizen? I’ve taken law classes, done research and written briefs. Have you?
In all the time it took you to formulate that cutting response to me, I guess you forgot to provide that proof that Palin isn’t a liar. I’m still waiting for that elusive link to her proof that she provided. I’d be delighted to be proven wrong because I think the mess should be done with once and for all. There are far more important issues with her credibility and deficiencies to be debated by bloggers, such as the newly released emails that show her staff was working on Alaska payroll and using the state’s email accounts and resources to work on her VP bid—I’ve read Alaskan law, too, btw. That would be illegal.
And SS WILL accept short form birth certificates. My father-in-law used one to apply for his and it was accepted. The state’s form of birth certificate is acceptable for such claims. Your state’s form may be different than others. Can you not read and grasp the fact that Hawaii doesn’t issue long form birth certificates? You think that Hawaiians don’t get SS because their form doesn’t meet your idea of what is acceptable.
Who is this Rick Moran guy. I just started reading PJM a few weeks ago and thought it an honest source. Guess not. PJM just got deleted from my Favorites list. See ya!!!
@ 322 Marina and 323 George: So you then agree that Sarah Palin didn’t know the difference between Iraq and Iran? Couldn’t cite a single Supreme Court case other than Roe?? Come ON. She had a brain freeze. It happens. But if you’re so sure that a college graduate with advanced degrees didn’t know how many states there are. She must be an “idiot” or a “retard” too by your standards (btw, it is ridiculous, IMO, to say that he is either of those since both indicate a lack of intelligence and basic cognitive skills. As someone who works with children who are mentally retarded/disabled, I find the term somewhat offensive, just as I would if it were used to describe Palin). And Palin is nearly incoherent when she tries to talk without a teleprompter. It’s not a matter of uhs and stammers–she can’t even put sentences together in any sort of recognizable form at times. For someone who has been in politics for 17 years and claims to have more experience than Obama, she certainly doesn’t present a very polished image when she speaks off script.
Marina–I agree that Obama gets more of a pass on his flubs. No doubt. But there have been people who have drubbed him pretty hard on his bad speeches. And Biden is constantly being characterized as someone who speaks first and thinks later in off the cuff remarks. If you think Biden gets a pass on looking dim, then you don’t read many political sites. And don’t forget the hair plugs he gets lampooned for, too.
George–how many times has Obama been interviewed and been able to answer questions in coherent thoughts (even if you don’t agree with them)? To suggest that he is an idiot because he gave a bad speech is grasping at straws. Did you SEE Palin’s resignation speech? Talk about rambling and poor skills. Eeek. I attribute that to the emotions and the adrenaline. It can do nasty things to people behind a mic, just as being flustered by bad equpiment or a change in plans can.
Oh, yeah, can you show me where the proof that Sarah claims to have provided is? Or is she, in fact, a liar? Still waiting.
331. misanthropicus: Palin doesn’t spook me at all. There isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hell she’d ever be elected president. She couldn’t win the primary to be on the ballot in the first place. There are waaay too many beltway Republicans that find her totally unacceptable. She doesn’t have the network that McCain did. She’d be left hanging in the breeze and I can’t see that she would take a chance on tarnishing her credibility by tangling with the so-called Republican elite. I also don’t think she WOULD run–just the fact that she’d have to deal with Todd’s membership in the AIP and her speeches to the group. Since the right puts such a premium on folks saying the pledge, the fact that her husband was in a secessionist group isn’t going to sit too well with a lot of veterans and others. And she’d have to release her medical records, which she clearly does NOT want to do. She’s going to find her niche in the pundit world and thrive. She isn’t stupid, no matter how bonkers some of the things she says come across. She’s savvy and right now she’s building her brand–and it’s tailor-made to appeal to an audience on a FOX show a la Huckabee where she can be a star without having to face interviewers or debates. More power to her, I say.
Donna–we agree that who Trig’s mother is or is not is a private matter…up to a point. My big gripe in the matter is that she LIED about proving it and she subjected her daughter to what seems to be needless speculation and humiliation when a birth certificate or hospital record could have cleared it up.
Don’t you think it’s just odd-for whatever reason–that she hasn’t done those things? I don’t want to buy into the truther conspiracy because it goes against all logic, but I still can’t figure out why she is lying and changing her story. It sort of adds to a pattern of behavior of hers that is coming to light after her book was published–she seems to have trouble separating fact from fiction for some reason. I think it is distracting from debating her policies and past performances, and that is a disservice to the political process.
I found PJM some months ago and have enjoyed it. I have not read much from Rick before really. He sounds a lot like many on the left that hate Palin and are intent on peeing on her political shoes.
Rick certainly deserves to write what he wants, but there SO many other publications out there with the same left leaning tripe – PJM, please keep your site a haven for the rest of us. Rick does not fit and should be pushed out the back porch.
Maybe PJM should draft a Purity Pledge for all the editors and members. Then there wouldn’t be any situation that would require an original thought. Someone could post the talking points of the day from Rush, Sean, the FOX morning crew and Karl Rove and the commenters could agree how brilliant they are and how terrible Obama is. That’s a great way to strengthen a party and encourage meaningful political discourse. Michelle Obama could go ahead and order four more years worth of address labels with that plan.
From the link:
Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.
RICK MORAN,
Please re-read that. Please note that Fukino and Onaka do NOT tell us WHAT the birth certificate SAYS. All they say is that they HAVE it. The State of Hawaii Dept. of Vital Statistics stores Hawaiians’ birth certificates, EVEN IF THEY COME FROM OUTSIDE OF HAWAII. Ask them yourself if you don’t believe me. That’s their policy—probably because Hawaii has so many immigrants from other states and countries. So the fact that they HAVE a birth certificate for Barack Obama tells us nothing about where he was born.
My interpretation of what Sarah Palin was implying is that if Obama should decide to run again in 2012, then the release of the information contained in the long form birth certificate for visual inspection will become a legitimate campaign issue. Being assured by any number of Hawaiian government officials that the document does indeed exist, but for unexplained reasons no one else is allowed to see, is simply not the good enough. The release of this primary document for inspection, which is the only one that should really count, containing the name of the hospital and the signature of the attending physician, cannot be viewed as presenting an undue burden for anyone running for the highest office; it is something that is required of most of us and most of us would supply it without hesitation. How people like the author can continue to argue ad infinitum that it does place too great an undue burden on a candidate is something that will always puzzle the so-called “birthers”.
Rick Moran—–There are some things you NEED to understand. Whether or not BHO is a real citizen is one thing, his intransigence to reveal or directly address issues of his past are another. If he was open and honest about all these things, umm, oh yeah, TRANSPARENT! If he were transparent, this would all be gone. He is NOT. That leads normal folks to think he IS hiding something, I don’t know what it is, but if he IS as intelligent as the press would have us believe, then yup, he IS hiding something.
The latest Alinsky style meme from the rotted (and delusional) mind of our residident trolls is that even though they know Trig is Sarah’s baby they can abide LYING by anyone in the political arena. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Thank you Kathy from Kansas(346). kim_tn you completely missed the simple central core of my statement at 295. For up to two years this ‘Original Birth Certificate’ issue has been a constant source of news, interest – passion for some, annoyance for many others, even anger – and all for no good reason. You know that if President Obama was born in Hawaii he has an ‘original birth certificate’ at the hospital of his birth. I worked in a hospital for decades, much time spent in OB/GYN and know this to be factual. All this craziness about this certificate and Obamas legitimacy could be totally ended forever within 24 hours worldwide if he would stop stonewalling over that small piece of paper and JUST SHOW IT TO EVERYONE. His continued refusal to do so is the Real Problem and it will not go away. All other arguments to the contrary and deflections from that simple idea, ‘JUST SHOW YOUR ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE TO US PLEASE PRESIDENT OBAMA’ are straw dogs. His continued refusal to do so and the sealing of those/that record is suspicious and should be viewed so. Mr Obama, I’ll show you mine if you’ll show me yours. kim, let’s not write each other anymore – I don’t think we’d make good pen pals – but I do hope you finally understand what I’am trying to say. It’s not that difficult and does not need a 2000 word reply. Please refrain yourself. I’am finished. qgs72
It is SO simple. Just produce the document.
They pounded Bush for documents, and even went as far as producing phony stuff.
I understand you are afraid of a constitutional and civil crisis.
What can’t anyone handle the truth?
RE #342/kim_tn:
[...] Palin doesn’t spook me at all. There isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hell she’d ever be elected president. [...]
Hehehe! You just confirm what I said, Palin spooked the hell out of you when she touched Obama illegitimacy issue – (disclaimer: I am not a Palin fan, and while I voted for McCain, I thought that his choice at that time wasn’t that good) -
So, in the first place, since Palin’s apparition on the scene last summer, she, for some reasons has managed to get an incredible traction, popularity-wise, and, conversely has arised amongst liberals and MSM deep fears that she might cause a populist political coagulation that would defeat the Democrats/ Obama’s chances for staying in power -
For this reason, and since then, Palin has been under attack from any quarters and for any reasons -
And when a personage with Palin’s vast & receptive base, and her great potential touched (like last Friday) the liberals’ suffocating fear that Obama might be proved as illegitimate and might be marched out from the office (fear particularly acute in the curent environment, when Obama is irreversibly slipping in anything he attempts to do, confirming the suspicions that he is not equipped intellectually or competence-wise for the job), Palin’s pronouncement triggered the Obamatons furious reaction we are assisting at, here and elsewhere -
Had Allan Keyes said the same thing, I wouldn’t have seen you and all other trolls swarming this place, trying to convince everyone that Palin is wrong, unfair, crazy, the Trig story, etc., or unshelving the same old, self-fullfilling argumentation vis-a-vis Obama’s (il)legitimacy (PatGund is perfect illustration of the MoveOnOrg talking-points obfuscation type of troll) –
Eppur si muove, ‘there isn’t such a thing like being kind of pregnant” – Obama’s illegitimacy is a legitimate question -
And worse (for Obamatons), this question’s sweep unstoppably grows, day-in-day out, ’till, unless it is frankly answered, will lead to strife uglier that today’s morose mood over the state of the affairs in this country -
Don’t consider your wishes reality – Hope ‘n Change is sailing through a very nasty patch and there is no reason to believe that will find friendlier seas in the future -
Best regards -
and will not go away because you invoke Vattel’s or get in other logical contortions -
kim_tn says that United States of America’s President and Armed-Forces Commander-In-Chief-Elect, Sarah Louise Heath Ronald Reagan Palin doesn’t spook him and that there is not a snowball’s chance in Hell she’s already effectively been elected President. Little kim says Mrs Palin couldn’t win the primary and that there are way too many beltway (RINOs) that (sic) find her (although it’s they, not Mrs Palin who are lost!) “totally unacceptable.” (Just like every “Republican” she’s put in prison during her 20-years – so far – political life, eh?)
Like every other sufferer from the FasciSSocialist Psychosis Little kimmy hasn’t a clue just how tough a campaigner United States of America’s President and Armed-Forces Commander-In-Chief-Elect, Sarah Louise Heath Ronald Reagan Palin is — and like every other sufferer from the FasciSSocialist Psychosisis, little kim’s scared sh*tless of/by her and reacts to her as does a vampire to the dawn.
And, like every other left-wing lunatic-fringe-dwelling member of the vast criminal enterprises also known as the modern “Democratic” potty, little kimmy has as much chance of impeding her accession to the (presently vacant) presidency as had the king, Cnut, of holding back a way-less unstoppable tide!
Mr. Moran, I clicked the link you provided – the Hawaiian authority does not say that he was born in the US. They just say the birth certificate is in their hands and confirm its legitimacy. Why can’t they just tell us what is on the country of birth line?
TO: Rick Moran
RE: Why….
….wasn’t my missive to you, yesterday, on this matter not posted here?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
I meant they “can’t” abide lyingin the political arena. Yeah, you betcha.
Why can’t they just tell us what is on the country of birth line?
Aside from the fact that his birth certificate is PROOF that he was born in the US, what difference would it make to an abject retard like you, unable to accept reality?
she is really a kind of buffoon, but a useful PR clown buffoon that appeals to people who feel threatened politically and are distracted easily by sports and reality tv. they are not “dumb” people, but they are sincere unhappy (with the political and economic realities of the world) people with an emotional need to fill. she does a good job of talking a sort of playground argument, where the truth means little, and a clever retort means a lot. the things that we find dismaying about her, lack of seriousness, quitting, ignorance, extreme faith based rather than logic based argument, hate baiting and chasing and jumping on absurd bandwagons and faux issues, this is the very thing that appeals to her people. thankfully there are people like Rick willing to speak out against the cartoon reality tv leaders.
To 320. PatGund
So your going to lie straight to my face when proven wrong and still keep up the myth… as I said you didn’t even make it past 1 post before taking the global warming approach.
Commuter, are you still here? I have read up to about 90 comments. I read as much as I could of Obama’s Dreams of My Father, and in it he writes that he found some old papers including his vaccine records and birth certificate. It was an insignificant paragraph, but it struck me as a little odd to mention such mundane things. This was before I was aware of the birth certificate controversy so I didn’t pay much attention, but now I think he put that in as cover for the question of his birth. I’ll have to check that book out of the library again to read it with the birthers in mind.
Your argument that what Obama revealed on the website is the only thing he could get from Hawaii is void based on Obama’s own book.
@ PJM:
WHY to link to one video proving Obama is a retard is o.k.,
and when you make 6 links proving the same you’re getting censored?
PatGund @ 75 wrote: sgtgizmo – Ignoring the fact that there is no credible evidence that such an Indonesian adoption took place, there are three bits of information you might not have:
1) Under US law, both current and at the time, a US citizen who is a minor cannot renounce their US citizenship or have it renounced for them. So there is no way under US law that Obama could have lost his US citizenship as a child.
RESPONSE: Obama admitted, on his own website: fight-the-smears to having been born a British Citizen. Obama was also born a US Citizen to an American citizen (Dunham). Therefore, at his birth, Obama was a dual-citizen of the US and a FOREIGN country. You’re correct, Obama didn’t lose his US Citizenship when he moved to Indonesia. But, Obama also did not lose his British Citizenship either.
THE QUESTION is: CAN a dual-citizen (of the US and a foreign country BE a “NATURAL born Citizen of the US” which Obama must be in order to be the POTUS? At this point, that question has not been answered . . .yet. Logically, and per all the case law dealing with NBC, the answer to that question is NO. NBC is a national security protection — the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces CANNOT have ANY legal allegiances to ANY nation other than the US, period. Obama never met that WISE requirement.
2) Under Indonesian law at the time (#62/1958) an adoptive child has to be under the age of five in order to be granted Indonesian citizenship, and it cannot be granted if it results in dual-citizenship. Obama was over the age limit when his mother married Lolo Soetoro, and due to US law prohibiting the renouncing of a minor’s citizenship, could not under Indonesian law be granted Indonesian citizenship.
RESPONSE: Well, actually, we do NOT KNOW when, exactly, Dunhan & Soetoro married b/c we’ve never seen the Marriage Certificate. This just one more “secret document.” We know when they were divorced but NOT when they were married.
3) Several people have claimed that Obama’s name post adoption is “Barry Soetoro”. Indonesia is a mostly Islamic country, and the Islamic guidelines on adoption say that a child NEVER takes on the name of the adoptive parent. (It’s treated as more of a fosterage situation than what westerners would call an “adoption”. The adopted child is raised as a part of the family, but not as a member of the family. Key difference. If such an adoption took place, Obama’s last name would STILL be “Obama”.
RESPONSE: WHO says that Obama was adopted IN INDONESIA? More LIKELY, he was adopted IN HAWAII, not Indonesia. It would have be STUPID to have Obama adopted in Indonesia. In fact, we’ve even got an Indonesian School record that identifies Obama as: “Barry Soetoro, Indonesian citizen” so if what you say is true re: indonesian law, then that is further “EVIDENCE” the Obama was adopted by Soetoro in Hawaii. . .and his name changed to :Barry Soeotoro in HAWAII, not Indonesia, right? YES. So . . .WAS Obama adopted by Soeotoro IN Hawaii prior by AGE 5? It’s certainly possible and we have NO evidence to the contrary. What Obama-supporters are left with is to ACCUSE Dunham & Soetoro of LYING to the Indonesian Govt which is HIGHLY implausible b/c of the DANGER it would have posed to Soetoro, Dunham and Barry, right? YES.
AQUA – There is no credible proof that the COLB posted on line (and later checked by “FactCheck” is a forgery. The forgery claims come from two anonymous internet “experts”, namely “Polarik” and “TechDude”, and later an anonymous internet geneologist called “Steve Cee” None of them have provided any evidence of the background and training they claim, neither have provided even proof of their real names. In light of this, their claims are hardly credible. There is more credible and verified evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, than there is regarding the training, background, and qualifications that “Polarik”, “TechDude”, and “Steve Cee” claim to have.
Sandra Lines did submit an opinion on this matter, but only to say in her expert opinion that one could not tell from an on-line picture if the document was real or a forgery, (remember, “Polarik”, “TechDude”, and “Steve Cee” all made their claims of forgery based on looking at the on-line document rather than the physical document). In this, Lines repeated what Dr. Neil Krawetz said when he refuted the claims of “Polarik” and “TechDude” in the summer and fall of 2008
RE #358/arthur:
[...] people who feel threatened politically and are distracted easily by sports and reality tv. they are not “dumb” people, but they are sincere unhappy (with the political and economic realities of the world) people with an emotional need to fill. she does a good job of talking [...]
Arthur, you mental lighthouse, before you try to go again to substance of something let’s deal a bit with style & presentation, buddy, ’cause not many people are willing to read your pronouncements in the counterproductive form you issue them -
Buddy, use caps when you type – caps are signals, signals among many, many other codes that make the alphabet the effective communication tool that it is -
Caps indicate the reader that you are starting a new line of thought, either complementary to the previous one, or an entirely new one – therefore your hypothetical reader can sort out in an easier manner your production -
A cap in typing idicates that you think – wearing backwardly a cap, as you so fondly do, indicates that you don’t think -
Do it, buddy – and you’ll see how you’ll sail through the 9th grade, possibly 10th. -
To: Jane 360
If your recall is correct, then I think you’ve hit a home run.
Please confirm and post again.
353 Brian: who could argue with that logic? ROFLMAO. I guess I’m supposed to be insulted by your ‘little kimmy’ references, but instead they just show the level of debate you are capable of–name calling. It’s like middle school. You do Palin a disservice when you move from discussion of the issues to personal attacks and off-the-wall comments such as your reference to her as the president and commander in chief.
Why do people think that anyone who questions Palin’s truthfulness is scared of her? I just said she lied…and despite your bizarre, disjointed reply, you have yet to prove that she isn’t. Where is the documentation that she claims to have provided?
robotech master – All you’ve done so far is “claim that was debunked a long time ago”, that a “very long and complete scientific process” was used by “real experts in the field” who “testify in court for a living” proved the COLB was a forgery.
I asked you who those people are.
I asked you for proof of your claims.
You have not provided any evidence to back your claims up. All you’ve done is claim I’m lying, without the slightest evidence of that either.
So much for riding me “so hard (I) couldn’t sit for a week”. I’m not even winded.
They are simple questions really.
Who are these “real experts in the field” ?
What “long and complete scientific process” was used ?
What evidence do you have to support the adoption claim ?
Oh, and as for constant “global warming” strawman, I don’t care about the subject one way or the other, neither side has convinced me. So can you please stick to the subject and ignore that particular strawman??
Moran’s hatred of Sarah Palin seems to know no bounds. Not only does he reveal a gross ignorance and/or denial of her stated positions on foreign affairs and economics, but he joins the radical left with a selective denunciation of her legitimate question.
Moran ignores the fact that in the state of Hawaii anyone could obtain a birth certificate for a child whether born in the state or not. Sarah Palin made a very reasonable observation that only Obama is allowed to get away with this kind of secrecy while others such as Bush, McCain, and herself were forced to reveal their entire life’s histories to satisfy the loony left.
It doesn’t matter if Obama was born in the United States or not, he should release contemporaneous evidence proving his eligibility for all to see instead of relying on others who simply say “trust me”.
And Moran should realize that he is simply feeding the other Palin haters on the radical left who will use his rants as ammunition to attack all conservatives. You never hear Democrats attack other democrats no matter what they say.
To: New Utopian 364, will do, but it may take longer than this thread will be going – I have to get the book from the library since I refuse to buy it. I had to give up on reading Dreams… due to boredom with the race obsession, so if someone has the book it would be in the first 100 pages, well unless I scanned and skipped around which is possible – so I guess the passage could be anywhere. I’ll do my best to find it soonest.
I read as much as I could of Obama’s Dreams of My Father, and in it he writes that he found some old papers including his vaccine records and birth certificate.
Well, it shouldn’t be too hard for you to offer a page number then. Off with you now. Somehow I doubt you’ll be back.
To: JC39 #76 and Rick Moran
If Max Cleland can demand on national TV and get, decades old pay stubs to determine if George W. Bush was actually in the National Guard as he claimed, why can’t any one American ask for and get one original birth certificate from a presidential candidate especially one with a somewhat sketchy childhood and ancestry? I don’t remember that the Democrat party was mortally wounded by Cleland’s request, which was breathlessly followed up by the media, even though they did not win the election that time around.
352 misanthropicus: Again, I’m not scared of Palin proving anything. She wasn’t claiming she had proof. If there was proof as you claim, it would have surfaced by now. There’s no way that kind of a secret could be kept for 40+ years. It’s ridiculous. There is no ‘suffocating fear’ that Obama will be proved illegitimate. That’s just what Birthers tell themselves to keep the faith in their quest, I guess. That’s like saying that Palin supporters are scared that Palin’s pregnancy was faked when people dispute those claims. It makes the base rally and feel better about their impact, but it’s ridiculous. I don’t think Sarah Palin is sitting up nights worrying about someone outing her any more than Obama is. .
You are projecting the thoughts of other on me because I pointed out a simple fact: Palin lied. She did not provide information that she said she did. No where have I said she wasn’t popular or striking a chord with a segment of the population that wants to be represented. She has. That is obvious. But being on a book tour and running in a primary are two very different things and I just don’t see how she will overcome the powers that be in the GOP to ever mount a successful primary campaign–and I do not think that is her intent. Not because I’m scared of her-that’s ridiculous–but because I think she is going to realize that being the candidate will inevitably harm her marketability and limit her ability to be the voice of change that she wants to be.
If she was such a shoe-in for 2012 then candidates in VA and NJ would have fallen all over themselves to get her to campaign for them. They didn’t. Perhaps that will change in the 2010 cycle–we’ll see–but if she isn’t on the stump for candidates around the country either through appearances or being asked to endorse, then I think it will be a sure sign that she isn’t the candidate that the GOP play callers want representing them.
I didn’t come here to troll–I came here to read a column that I thought was well-written and made a very legitimate point. I wasn’t aware that only people who disagreed with Rick were allowed to comment. If he’d been talking about Keyes and Keyes had told a lie about providing proof, I’d have commented about him, too. I am not an Obamatron or a person who follows talking points as gospel. I am not a Democrat or a Republican–I vote for candidates in both parties at all levels.
All I’m asking for is proof that she says she provided. Where is it? I’ve been called names and told to shut up, but no one to this point has been able to answer my question. She either lied or she didn’t. Where is the proof she said she gave?
qgs72: We agree more than you think. All I’m asking for is the proof that Palin says she has given. Where is it? How hard would it be for her to look in the filing cabinet or baby book, make a copy and say, “SEE?????”
FWIW, if I was on Obama’s team, I’d have told him to release anything he had related to his birth certificate.
@ 367 Stevemmn: You seem to ignore the fact that in Hawaii if you get a birth certificate and were born in another country, it is printed on that certificate. It wouldn’t claim he was born in Hawaii.
I wouldn’t invoke Vattal’s argument because that is irrelevant in this situation. I’d use US vs Wong Kim Ark (1898) that established children born to foreign parents, citizens of the US or not, on US soil are US citizens. Even if BOTH his parents were Kenyan, he would be recognized as a US citizen.
McCain fought releasing his birth certificate–and he wasn’t born on US soil, so how did he get nominated? Palin didn’t release her medical records–just a letter from her doctor the day before the election.
I have been less than thrilled with Obama on many fronts so far. And if you think Democrats don’t bash Democrats then you don’t read many liberal blogs.
Back to my original point–Palin lied. Doesn’t that bother ANYONE who supports her? She lied about something that is easy to fact check. She should have kept her mouth shut on that one. Where is the proof?
Oh, and there are several people who have said that Palin asked for him to show his birth certificate. According to her FB post, she did not. She said very clearly that she did NOT ask for that. And I think that’s because she doesn’t want to show Trig’s for some reason that still makes no sense.
I was going to rip Rick a new one as well but alas
the 370 plus beat me to it.
What they said ^.
Is this person, Rick Moran, really the right sort of commentator for this website?
Calling Sarah Palin a liar (using the word for acknowledging that there are still many people who have what they feel are legitimate questions about Obama’s citizenship is slanderous.
Using the word “prevaricator”, expecting it to be overlooked, is an insult to this website’s readership.
It has been made clear, in many places, that one grade of Hawaiian birth certificate (there were 3) was, at the time of Obama’s youth, exceedingly easy to get. And, it would have been logical for his grandparents to pursue one so young Barry could go to public school.
It requires no “truther” sort of logic leap to presume that Obama is not qualified to be President of the USA. This is perhaps the most honest thing that can be said about the whole affair – that the continual cover-up of relevant details paints the citizenship picture in a poor light.
The same idiots who laugh at people who question Obama’s birth certificate will turn around and question whether Palin is the mother of her child.
“The same idiots who laugh at people who question Obama’s birth certificate will turn around and question whether Palin is the mother of her child.”
Actually they think they have come up with a more sophisticated line; that she is incapable of being a leader because she lied about showing Trig’s birth certificate. See how conscientious they are? They can’t abide lying.
Stick to the subject they say. The subject regarding whether or not we have the right to question BO’s qualifications because of a lack of ANY documentation? That subject?
Commuter #369. I found this on another website:
On Page 26 of “Dreams of My Father”, Obama writes:
“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,”
Perhaps you can check it out. Off with you now, let me know if it’s legit. That will save me a trip to the library.
Stevemmn – As I said upstream, Hawaiian State Law states that a birth certificate issued to someone born outside of the US (said law was passed in the 1980’s, after Obama was born), has to include the place they were born in. So an adopted child from Bali getting one of these would say “Bali” on the COFB (Certificate of Foreign Birth) issued, and it would say on it:
“The statement “This certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child or the parents named above.” [Eff. FEB 19 1981] (Auth: HRS Secs. 321-9, 338-2) (Imp: HRS Secs. 338-17.7(c), 338-20.5)”
See for yourself:
http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/11-120.pdf
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/
A certificate for a birth outside of Hawaii has to state the place of birth.
kim_tn – McCain did indeed fight a court case where Markham Robinson of the American Independent Party sued California Secretary of State Debra Bowen for, among other things, proof of McCain’s birth and citizenship. McCain’s attorneys fought in court against the request, in the exact same way Obama’s attorneys have fought against such requests in the cases they have been involved with.
The case that McCain’s attorneys were involved in is Robinson v Bowen, case # 3:2008cv03836, California Northern District Federal Court.
Markham Robinson later was involved in simular lawsuits against Obama as well
Does anyone else see both a style, vocabulary and opinion similarity between the writings of Rick Moran, Commuter, and Anon.? I do. Cound they be one and the same—Rick Moran himself?
What ‘s with the fixationon Hawaii. Palin actually went to school there – a whole semester – before she quit that, too. Hey, here’s one, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and quits like a duck – hardy hardy har – it’s probably a duck. Now doubt all those Asians over there in Hawaii made her uncomfortable. You now how those minorities lack glamour. Yeah, quite the leader you’ve picked for yourselves. Enjoy her before she self-destructs.
360. Jayne:
Sorry, the person posting as commuter is a blog wh@re by the name of moho who impersonates regular posters. Even on a site as tolerant of the unabashedly moronic as PJM, moho’s posts are being moderated out. So he impersonates others. Sort of like a middleschooler no one pays any attention to writing a note under someone else’s name…
Moving on what moho the marching moron said while impersonating me in 369:
360. Jayne: said
‘…I read as much as I could of Obama’s Dreams of My Father, and in it he writes that he found some old papers including his vaccine records and birth certificate…’
moho the ignorant tool replied:
‘Well, it shouldn’t be too hard for you to offer a page number then. Off with you now. Somehow I doubt you’ll be back.’
Here you go, tool;
In “Dreams of My Father”, on page 26 Obama wrote:
“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,”
There are 4 possibilities. A birth certificate exists along with vaccination records, Obama was lying in his book, whoever Obama authorized to ghost write the book was lied to by Obama, or whoever Obama authorized to ghost write the book was lying on his on. If it’s the fourth case, Obama having let the lie stand is as culpable as the ghost writer
So Obama was lying or authorized a lie, or there’s a certificate, Obama has not made it public when doing so would dispel all doubt about the matter.
Which is it, moho? tool?
I was going to rip Rick a new one as well but alas
Sorry, you’re ripping with dull scissors. Certainly if I were Moran, I’d be laughing my a#$ off at the attempts.
Anon – If the Hawaiian authorities can’t just say straight out that he was born in Hawaii, there’s a problem of transparency here. The fact that they have it doesn’t prove anything. There are numerous reasons they caould have it even if he wasn’t born there. And it would be nice if you were polite, even though I guess that’s too much to expect from someone who isn’t interested in real debate.
Commuter #369 – I found this on another website:
On Page 26 of “Dreams of My Father”, Obama writes:
“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,”
Perhaps you can check it out to see if it’s legit. Off with you now, let me know what you find out. Save me a trip to the library.
PatGund . . . smite the charlatans! Lay waste to the pretenders! Confound the pocket political scientists! Crush the phony constitutionalists! Shine the blinding light of truth on the liars! Draw them into your lair of accountability! Crush them with the weight of your intellect! Cast them on the ground and step on their neck! Debunk their empty claims of “logic” and “facts” and “analysis” and yes, “patriotism.” Leave them to lick their wounds with other birthers who share their ignorance. Oh, so many victims in so little time. Go forth! Share the good news with all who will hear it around the earth! And watch the fork-tongued Sadducees wail . . . “is too! Is too! Is too!”
Hail Rush, Go Sarah!
Kim_tn
Are you kidding? Trig is an innocent baby, not a presidential aspirant turned president. Palin should refuse to show his birth certificate on the grounds that it’s nobody’s damn business. I didn’t know that she had either and maybe should be asked, but it’s hardly consequential – it was a throwaway comment in a radio interview, not something she has hired lawyers to conceal. She should and of course would show her own certificate if asked as Barack Hussein Whatever Obama Soetoro Obama should.
Commuter – Well, let’s see. He was in High School in the late 70′s. He attended three colleges, moved several times, married, had children…
It’s quite possible that old birth certificate was lost along the way. I’ve had to order a couple copies of mine between High School and today – the most recent one in 2005 when I applied for a passport.
Funny how that can happen, isn’t it??
Jayne, you are missing my point entirely. I never said that she should have provided proof—you are correct. It’s no one’s business. I said as much way higher. I don’t care about that per se. My point is when she said this:
“Well you need to produce his birth certificate! You need to prove that he’s your kid!” Which we have done.”
she stepped in it knee high because she HASN’T done it. She is lying. That’s MY issue with her–not the rest of the crap. And with that lie, she opened up the whole Trig hoopla and put it in the spotlight when it had died down everywhere but a few blogs. I think she was trying to show herself as being open and transparent and somehow make Obama look like he is hiding something, except she didn’t do what she said she did. So then she had to go to FB and post about not actually asking Obama to provide his birth certificate.
If she thought the Trig Truther heat was bad before, I imagine it’s going to be in full blaze for awhile after this because she’s going to have to do something to save face.
BTW, there is no law that says Obama has to provide HIS birth certificate either. McCain sued to keep his under wraps and didn’t get all this flack when he wasn’t even born ON US soil. It’s just grasping at straws on all fronts, IMO, and Palin should never have put herself in the middle of it if she wants to be considered a serious political figure by anyone outside the birther group…and I think she realized that too late.
PatGund. It’s quite possible that old birth certificate was lost along the way. I’ve had to order a couple copies of mine between High School and today – the most recent one in 2005 when I applied for a passport.
Your clever resort to Occam’s Razor will avail thee not. We are obtuse as the winter wind is cold–we will not bend to logic!
382. mannning: wrote
‘Does anyone else see both a style, vocabulary and opinion similarity between the writings of Rick Moran, Commuter, and Anon.? I do. Cound they be one and the same—Rick Moran himself?’
I’m sure Rick writes his own stuff. As for the rest, a blog wh@re who was using he handle moho the marching moron is having his comments moderated out. So he’s impersonating regulars or posting anonymously. Uses my handle, quite a few others. If you look down this thread, you’ll see his signature brand of imbecility posted under a lot of names.
The stupid little pissant actually posted under my handle in the ‘A Few Good Scientists’ thread using some of the same personal fantasies he’s posted in the past under the moho the marching moron handle. Not too bright.
390. PatGund:
Pat, no one holds their original birth certificate. They are copies. Anyone providing ID can get another copy or theirs. So having possibly lost the copy he claimed (or someone claimed,) he had, does not mean the original document is lost or another copy inaccessible. My 4 possibilities stand.
A birth certificate exists along with vaccination records, Obama was lying in his book, whoever Obama authorized to ghost write the book was lied to by Obama, or whoever Obama authorized to ghost write the book was lying on his on.
LOL…I don’t know who Moho is, or why you spend so much time talking about him, but you sure can take care of looking like an idiot by posting as yourself. If he is posting as you, he couldn’t do half the damage you can. How about as the first possibility, that the certificate was lost after that point? Or even better, that Obama’s supplied a legal document attesting to his birth in the United States! You have jack all to say about it you little twit. The law’s the law, it doesn’t change because some di$%less whiner in Lunchmeat, Arkansas doesn’t like black people.
By the way, that was sent to Commuter, not Moho, LOL, if there even is such a person.
Kim_tn
I got your point. I am sure Trig is Palin’s kid, and I don’t care if he is not, what she offhandedly said in the radio interview is so inconsequential, maybe she did address it somewhere – but it doesn’t matter. Trig’s birth circumstances have no bearing on me, my finances, my country, my kid’s lives, the debt, gun rights, Obama’s czars etc. get my drift? I don’t care if Palin did or did not prove Trig’s birth or if she made an offhand, mistaken comment during a radio interview when the issue was Obama – the president who does have tremendous bearing on my life, et al. She has made many policy statements, her life is a pretty open book. I think you’re a frickin’ weirdo to be so anal about her Trig comment, when Obama’s total lie about not being a big government guy (Jan 09) the climategate “hide the decline” scandal, Obama’s desire for universal health care, complete obfuscation of his past by the press is sooooo much more important.
396:
Oh boy. Such anger.
Doesn’t matter if the copy of the certificate mentioned in the book was lost. If you believe the book, an original exists. Just by asking, Obama can get a copy. He does, the controversy dies. He doesn’t, it goes on. Unless there’s to be some new story that the courthouse burned down and all the records were lost…
BYW: I said moho, never Moho. Slipped up again, tool?
373. kim_tn:
The statute authorizing those born outside the US to receive a birth certificate says nothing about putting the place of birth on the COLB. In fact, a COLB was not even considered valid proof by the state of Hawaii for eligibility in the Hawaiian homelands program until the Obama birth certificate controversy arose.
And it doesn’t matter if Obama is a citizen or not, citizenship is not sufficient to serve as president of the United States, a person must be a natural born citizen.
And Democrats have a real collection of wingnuts and loonies in their stable: Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, Howard Dean, etc. But you never hear Democrats criticizing them. They are all respected members of the party.
Also, you should be able to give a specific statement in which you claim Sarah Palin lied. So far no one has been able to do it although we can easily name a dozen flat out lies by Barack Obama.
BTW: I am not a birther. Barack Obama is way too dimwitted to pull off something like a secret plan to fake the circumstances of his birth. He is nothing more than a one trick pony who can read a prepared speech but is clueless about anything to do with real world issues. That doesn’t excuse him from releasing contemporaneous proof that he was born in this country though.
Hey Mary Steinhart. I like black people, especially Clarence Thomas, Ken Blackwell and a lot of the black people on the Glen Beck hosted show this past Saturday night (12/5). I still think Obama should release the original birth cert. that’s in Hawaii, I still think the Supreme Court should adjudicate the issue of what a natural born citizen is, and I still agree with Barry Whatever, Obama, Soetoro, Obama that transparency in government is essential for our republic, so I still think that he should make available all documents pertaining to his background (birth cert, Pakistan trip, who paid his college bills, and Acorn included), reasoning (college thesis), and votes (record in Illinois senate). How about you?
RE #390/PatGund:
[...] It’s quite possible that old birth certificate was lost along the way. I’ve had to order a couple copies of mine between High School and today – the most recent one in 2005 when I applied for a passport. [...]
Pat, looks like these mean conservatives kind of cornered you.
For a while you were able to pursue the act of an objective and dispassionate commenter eager to provide any possible type of deflecting information or referrence to those willing to take you seriously (in the case of Obamatons, this is called suspension of disbelief) – but now, you have been reduced from your generous display of objective competence to invoking dogs that ate dba Obama’s vital records -
Exciting – hope you can come with more attractions -
Best regards -
misanthropicus – Nope! I’m simply pointing out it’s quite possible to lose a document in a 20+ year span and have to get a duplicate.
The COLB I used for my passport looked different than the certificate I remembered too. The State Department still accepted it. I’m simply stating it’s within the realm of possibility that the copy he’s referring to was lost along the way as well.
PATGRUND @ 402 — RESPONSE: (1) the IMAGE of the factcheck COLB is IRRELEVANT. It proves nothing. NO governmental, political or state govt authority has ever said they examined Obama’s 2007 COLB and it’s legit.—–(2) the factcheck online IMAGE is INADMISSIBLE in court as proof that Obama was born in Hawaii.—–(3) Obama COULD have ordered a copy of his actual Birth Certificate instead of the “derivative” COLB. MANY Hawaiians did just that in 2007/2008. Obama CHOSE not to do so even though McCAIN’s BC and COLB were plastered on the internet by a journalist who somehow managed to get an authentic/validated copy from Panama. My guess: McCain PERMITTED that to occur.—–(4) McCain’s lawsuit in court came FIRST and then Obama copied him by fighting the release. McCain DELIBERATELY did that, IMO, to “set-up” Obama and see how FAR Obama would take this charade . . .and he did take it ALL the way.—–(5) During Resolution 511 re: McCain’s eligibility, Obama SAT THERE and didn’t say a word about HIMSELF even though he KNOWS that there is absolutely a serious question re: whether HE is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN per Article II of the US Constitution. (5) some BC, Obama allegedly found among his papers is also IRRELEVANT —— (6) HI DoH NEVER, not once, connected themselves in ANY way to Obama’s 2007 COLB. They never admitted that Obama ordered it from them NOR that they ever produced ANY COLB to Obama in 2007.—– (7) HI DoH REGISTRAR also NEVER simply said: YES, I stamped Obama’s COLB. We merely have a STAMPED signature but NO statement that the REGISTRAR actually stamped it . . .and again NO statement by HI DoH that THEY produced the COLB Obama has displayed — or rather the IMAGE of a COLB Obama has displayed — on the internet. The matter re: WHETHER Obama IS LEGALLY/Constitutionally the POTUS is HUGE — HUGE !! Quite frankly, it’s a NO-BRAINER THAT OBAMA COMMITTED FRAUD and is NOT a NBC of the US. . .and thus was NEVER ELIGIBLE TO BE THE POTUS. You WILL see. Quo Warranto, DC District Court awaits . . . .BUT probably not for another YEAR. . .and Obama KNOWS what’s going to happen which is WHY he replaced his WH Counsel with BAUER, his BC/ELIGIBLILTY LAWYER.
And, PatGund, YOU ALSO KNOW that Obama was never eligible either ! — (8) The 14th Amendment NEVER TOUCHED nor changed, in any way, the LONG-STANDING definition of NBC per Article II. You know . . .and w/in a year, EVERYONE will know it too. 
PatGund . . . Hoists the trophy of factual certainty! . . . Kisses the gleaming silver of logical imperative . . . Wins the war over right wing hypocrites, like 397 Jayne . . . “I am sure Trig is Palin’s kid, and I don’t care if he is not, what she offhandedly said in the radio interview is so inconsequential, maybe she did address it somewhere – but it doesn’t matter.”
Right. It doesn’t matter . . . “Thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere” doesn’t matter . . . being convicted on unethical use of power doesn’t matter . . . abandoning the people who elected her to serve doesn’t mater . . . taking a bus tour on a private jet doesn’t matter . . . but Obama taking his wife to dinner in New York, whoa! That’s a national crisis.
You folks have to learn to hide your situational principles a little better. You’re embarrassing yourselves.
For their effort, the results are that “birthers” are like people who still won’t admit the south lost the civil war.
404. Now and Then.
“You folks have to learn to hide your situational principles a little better. You’re embarrassing yourselves.”
So your advice is to “hide” and use ” situational principles a little better “?
Did you learn these techniques in the great Modern Liberal Barnyard, you Handsome Mixed European – American Embarrassed Turkey With a touch of Black? Sounds like something a Turkey in the wild might do, and so one can somewhat understand the craving for complete government protection required for Barnyard survival. Used to be a chicken in every pot (horrible thought, much of the Mr. President’s administration in the pot, or at least on it), and now that that has expanded to a heated coop with Government Nurse Nancy Ratchet on hand for free claw clipping, paid for by the capitalistic wolves roaming outside the Barnyard of Safe Haven, things look better.
But that wicked gun toting Palin pops up, and the strutting begins. She must have harvested a fellow traveler for the White Man Dominance Days several years running now. This may explain some of the rage and red faces in the Modem Liberal Turkey Community. Mr. President has done this as well, and like your encounter with baster provider Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever, it looks like you’ve been fooled again.
There is consolation, thank goodness for The Presidential Bast a Turkey stimulus program. The more gobblers, the larger the corn pile. Breed! Bitch! And get Turkey Rich!
Modern Liberal Turkeys never had it better. Well sort of, maybe.
Be careful, Mr. President has been known to turn on anybody within range. Mr. Cheney was a bad shot, everybody, I mean everybody knows that. Everybody. Mr. President is so smart that he will just corn-promise lure you in right before Christmas, and bang!, it’s off to the homeless shelter, naked and headless and stuffed, Chicago style. That is how you can help Amerika. Mr. President said so, so therefore it is True.
Anyway, don’t play that Judas Priest tune on your Government TurkeyPod, Some Heads Are Gonna Roll. Might upset the Barnyard
What would Anvil Johnson say, you Handsome Mixed European – American Embarrassed Turkey With a touch of Black?
Gobble, gobble!
Karen -
1) Correct. The closest has been the State of Hawaii confirming that the format of the COLB image posted matches their format and that they hold Obama’s birth cerificate in their files. Also the data in the Hawaii State birth index matches the information on the COLB
2) That’s a given. The COLB image on the “Fight the Smears” website is strickly for public use, not for official use. Same with the pictures of the physical document that FactCheck published. Remember, the reason why the physical document was scanned and posted had nothing to do with claims of being born outside of Hawaii, but rather claims his middle name was “Mohammed”.
If any of the birther cases ever got to discovery. I suspect a copy of the COLB would be sent to the court directly from the State of Hawaii to confirm the validity. Just as I would expect he would use the real document when needed, rather than the silly idea some have that he would show the on-line scan and call it good.
3) The COLB is what the State of Hawaii offers. They do not offer a “long form” certificate. The office of Hawaiian Homelands did, until recently, accept a “long form” solely to prove Hawaiian ancestry.
There have been questions on if the McCain birth certificate shown on line is real or not. The person who provided it claims to be the legit owner of the Panama Railway system and has been involved in scams regarding that claim.
4) It’s certainly an interesting theory, however, the statements from the McCain camp that they investigated the claims of Kenyan birth and a forged birth certificate and found them “without merit” tends to lend doubt to the idea.
5a) (You said “5″ twice) Since Obama was born in Hawaii, there was no question about his status as a “Natural-Born” US citizen. His support for that resolution was to support McCain and any questions that might arise there.
5b) The only way that one would have mattered in this discussion would be if that was the document scanned and placed on line.
6) The State of Hawaii has confirmed that they hold Obama’s birth certificate and that the document shown appears legitimate to them. More they cannot provide due to State and Federal privacy laws.
7) Again, State and Federal privacy laws protecting personal information come into play. You can’t demand such laws be ignored simply because you don’t like someone.
9) You are correct in that the 14th Amendment never touched the definition of a Natural-Born citizen. However, 200+ years of US law, case law, court rulings, and the like, have defined a Natural-Born citizen as someone born in the United States or born to a US citizen parent. There is nothing in US law, the US Constitution, or the US legal codes to support the theory that “Natural-Born Citizen” = “Born of two US citizen parents” And before you bring up de Vattel’s “Law of Nations”, bear in mind that the phrase “Natural-Born Citizen” does not appear in the original French of that work, and that the English Translation that uses that phrase wasn’t released until years after the Constitution was written.
BTW, that very same work, de Vattel’s “Law of Nations”, also states that the right to bear arms should be restricted to nobility and the crown, which directly goes against the Second Amendment in the US Constitution. If de Vattel’s work had the influence on the Constitution that is claimed, one would think the Second Amendment would look differently.
405. arthur:
‘For their effort, the results are that “birthers” are like people who still won’t admit the south lost the civil war.’
No, that’s documented.
Why is it that many here do not accept the fact that it is not the President who refuses to publish the original non-digitized Birth Certificate, but rather the State of Hawaii? The state chose to go to an electronic system that was approved by the US Government and is recognized by every state. The President cannot require the state to release the original form. He is subject to the same laws as you or I. That said, the digital form is all the proof that is required.
kim_tn – when a reporter asks to see a birth certificate, as Palin said was asked of her, you fax it, scan and email or invite him personally. What exactly do you want to see?
nowandthen – changing the subject doesn’t change the fact that Obama, Mr. transparency in government is hiding a whole lot. Just release the birth certificate already, BO. Make fools of the birthers. Let us know what hospital you were born in – there’s a busload of tourists waiting to pay homage to your birthplace. And while your at it, put the health care negotiations with big pharma and AARP and all the other players on C-Span like you promised. Don’t hide behind executive priveledge for your social secretary of all things – let her speak to congress.
Senator Obama abandoned his voters, while maintaining his seat and his salary and his perks while he took the full time job to run for Pres. She did the noble thing and left Alaska in good hands with Lt. Gov Parnell who would complete her work, without the cost and distraction of fighting frivolous ethics charges and the poisoned atmosphere spiteful Democrats created. Her resignation helped Alaska reunite. His presidential politics is creating an even more dis-unified electorate. He took wifey on a taxpayer funded trip complete with entourage of secret service in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the depression according to him, in addition to the parties at the White House, the trip to Chicago and Europe, the Kobe beef, the flying in the pizza chef, the expensive sneakers and purse – tacky tacky – just like the Jefferson’s Movin On Up but on the taxpayers dime. She pays her own way. Bridge did not get built; conviction requires fine or jail time – neither happened, therefore no conviction – you lie. Kangaroo politically motivated ethics investigations don’t count.
Now back to Moran’s article – what is the political crime in stating that if people have questions of those who seek to be elected or are in office they have the right to ask those questions? Thank you Governor Palin for stating the obvious. Sorry you have to take so much flak for sticking up for what used to be America. Those of you who want to defend Obama’s decision to not release whatever is available in HI or elsewhere are the ones with situational “principles”.
BYW: I said moho, never Moho. Slipped up again, tool?
Damning evidence, indeed, lol. No wonder you see evidence of her/his presence everywhere. Whoever this person is, admit your unrequited love to him/her and be done with it.
Jayne:Make fools of the birthers.
Way too late for that by any objective measurement.
RE #402/PatGund RE misanthropicuS;
[...] Nope! I’m simply pointing out it’s quite possible to lose a document in a 20+ year span and have to get a duplicate. [...]
Pat, can you tell why this explanation hasn’t been used yet by Gibbs and other official figures?
Thanks -
RE Now and Then:
Hey, N&T, your friend Kevin Jennings is now again under fire, this time for explaining some 14 years olds how to do a right fisting – nice!
You estimation, N&T – will Kevin Jennings survive the FistingGate?
PatGund . . . Hoists the trophy of factual certainty! . . . Kisses the gleaming silver of logical imperative . . . Wins the war over right wing hypocrites, like 397 Jayne . . . “I am sure Trig is Palin’s kid, and I don’t care if he is not, what she offhandedly said in the radio interview is so inconsequential, maybe she did address it somewhere – but it doesn’t matter.”
Right. It doesn’t matter . . . “Thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere” doesn’t matter . . . being convicted on unethical use of power doesn’t matter . . . abandoning the people who elected her to serve doesn’t mater . . . taking a bus tour on a private jet doesn’t matter . . . but Obama taking his wife to dinner in New York, whoa! That’s a national crisis.
You folks have to learn to hide your situational principles a little better. You’re embarrassing yourselves.
RE Now and Then:
Hey, N&T, your friend Kevin Jennings is now again under fire, this time for explaining some 14 years olds how to do a right fisting – nice!
You estimation, N&T – will Kevin Jennings survive the FistingGate?
RE #410/Nutmegger:
[...] Why is it that many here do not accept the fact that it is not the President who refuses to publish the original non-digitized Birth Certificate, but rather the State of Hawaii? [...]
Nutty, can’t you do better than that?
The State of Hawaii is a CUSTODIAN OF CONFIDENTIAL RECORDS which normally are not accessible in original form to the public – however, if someone who has the right to ask for the release of his/ her BC will do so, the Hawaii HD will comply with the request – $15 fee –
So Barry can do it if he wants to do it -
Best regards -
The purpose of term “natural born citizen” in the US Constitution was to eliminate the possibility of foreign influence upon the POTUS.
Therefore, according to the Framers:
natural born citizen = born on US soil & of 2 US citizens
412. Jayne:
” Just release the birth certificate already, BO. Make fools of the birthers”
Seems to me he’s doing just that already. You should really think about which bait you bite.
417. misanthropicus/anonymous:
Is that the same Kevin Jennings who you were 100% would be gone three months ago? Tell you what, you did so well with your last prediction, go ahead and make this one.
RE #421/Now and Then:
[...] 417. misanthropicus/anonymous: [...]
[...] Is that the same Kevin Jennings who you were 100% would be gone three months ago? Tell you what, you did so well with your last prediction, go ahead and make this one. [...]
1) Sorry, no “anonymous”, it’s me, I shot that by mistake, unedited and without my name – I don’t double -
2) Yeah, it’s the same Kevin Jennings – and this time I bet (since the Gateway Pundit said that there is more on the pipe about him) that Jennings will be dumped in two weeks -
However, since in the prior Jennings encounter you showed a superior understanding of how this administration reacts to scandals, I also credit you for finding nothing wrong in the (few) following:
a) the ACORN review found nothing wrong with them…
b) the Black Panther guys are back on streets…
3) Robert Bauer (of Perkins Coie) is WH counsel now…
4) Obama when taking his Peace Nobel Prize will speak about his sending 30.000 soldiers more in Afghanistan…
5) Creole Valerie still in office…
6) dba Obama’s rating went under %47…
6) … and yes, Jennings still there -
Hey, exciting times – best regards -
Bite this nowandthen – Palin also got rid of the taxpayer provided private jet, and the chef. The media cacoon that bo enjoys is what allows the term birthers to exist. I wouldn’t proud of that type of corruption and incompetence that you apparently revel in.
DR Dave..#54
I suggest you reconsider as to the most frequent location of RM’s head..
He is the least persuasive of bloggers here and the AT …..broad sweeping declarations , scant evidence and less rational critical thought…otherwise you’re “spot on”.
from chicago says a lot about the writer…… a more disgusting place may exist, but i dont know where it is. people there are some of the most arrogant f…s on the planet, with a sense of strange entitlement that provides justification for writing the above tripe.
lets be clear. we dont care what you think. i like sarah because she really really annoys the liberals, and is a complete antithesis of the dictator in chief.
i bought 4 of her books as gifts, just to really piss you off.
423. Jayne:
Jayne Jayne Jayne . . . Why so angry? It’s not a sin to be wrong. Or to look foolish. Orly Taitz, the matriarch of the birther movement, proceeds apace with no fear of appearing insane. I suggest you do the same (only without the adultery part, unless you’re into that sort of thing). Meanwhile, I and the vast majority of evolved Americans will continue to watch with glee as you whine yourselves into perpetual irrelevance.
Hail Rush, Go Sarah!
Jayne . . . BTW, do Asians make you uncomfortable, too? Is Hawaii not glamorous enough for you?
Silence do good:
natural born citizen = born on US soil & of 2 US citizens
No. Firstly Article II does not actually define “natural born citizen”. The fourteenth amendment defines citizenship as:
“all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States”. In fact, ones parents needn’t be citizens. The Supreme Court dealt with this issue as early as 1898, ruling that Chinese children of Chinese immigrants were citizens.
But what a silly argument for adults. Literally, unable to accept the fact that a non-white person with a foreign sounding name is now your president, you seek to undermine the will of the people by finding any loophole you can get your hands on. Such desperate acts demonstrate a bigoted idiot, rather than a patriot.
Anon – you are confusing citizen with natural born citizen. Step aside and let people who don’t need a remedial course in logic do the arguing.
Jayne. You’re retarded.
“No. Firstly, Article II does not actually define “natural born citizen”. The Fourteenth amendment defines citizenship as:”
No confusion whatsoever. The term “natural born citizen” is rendered meaningless by the fact that there are no criteria specified for it. Citizenship–both birth citizenship and naturalized citizenship–is defined by the 14th amendment, it is not defined by Article II. Only an idiot would refer to Article II’s mention of “natural born citizen”, as it is meaningless.
Yeah and you’re a scholar, anon. The following is from Freerepublic which you will discount, but at least it gives you the idea that there is a difference between citizen and natural born citizen – the main criteria for president – and a starting point to track the definitions, and veracity of Freerepublic. My dog in this fight is not so much the definition of natural born, but the transparency issue, and the self evident assertion that American citizens have a right to ask for authentic documentation of pertinent information pertaining to those who wish to rule us.
“The addition of a grandfather clause in this paragraph says a lot as to the meaning of natural born. The first thing it says is that being born in the US is not enough to be natural born, otherwise the grandfather clause would not be necessary. The writers and delegates, having been born in the US, wanted to be eligible for the presidency, but most were the children of British subjects. Knowing that that eliminated them from being natural born and, thus, from eligibility, they included the grandfather clause which expired when the last person alive at the time of the ratification of the Constitution died. So, being a native born citizen is not the same as being natural born. If it were the framers would not have included the clause.
When asked to define natural born citizen, John Bingham, the author of the 14th ammendment which extended the bill of rights to former slaves, stated, “Any human born to parents who are US citizens and are under no other jurisdiction or authority.” The Naturalization Act of 1790, also passed by this congress, declared “And the children of citizens of the US shall be considered as natural born, provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been a resident of the US.” Neither of these definitions, one from US law, mentions birthplace, only the parents’ citizenship.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2196957/posts
I’m still waiting for Sarah Palin to be examined on a live program while spreading her legs just to make sure she is a woman. How do we know if she is not a man? Seriously, who said she is a woman? Can we just drop all the shenanigans and go after important issues like the one I inquired? Can we all just get our act together and get to the bottom of this vital question at hand? Is Sarah Palin a woman?
If you discern the subtleties in my devil’s advocate statement as to why dignifying a down right smear inquiry like above can be viewed as “dignifying” the nefarious parties, then perhaps you realize why Obama giving into Birthers’ request would be detrimental to his presidential statues. But I suppose for folks who suffer from low cognitive complexity, no amount of rational discourse and reasoning can convince them of their impending idiocy.
So maybe the Brit, Neil Sankey can succeed where the Russian immigrant (from the Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic) has failed, bring it on.
Poor little Birthers (still in denial about their losses), Judge Land and now judge Carter, smack down the crazies (case dismissed).
Not even “Fake News” Bill O’Reilly believes the crazies, how funny.
http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/10/29/bill-oreilly-slams-orly-taitz/
http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/BIRTHER%20CASE%20LIST.pdf
To all the birthers in La, La Land, it is on you to prove to all of us that your assertion is true (TOUGH WHEN YOU KEEP LOSING CASES), if there are people who were there and support your position then show us the video (everyone has a price), either put up or frankly shut-up. I heard Orly Taitz, is selling a tape (I think it’s called “Money, Lies and Video tape”). She is from Orange County, CA, now I know what the mean when they say “behind the Orange Curtain”, when they talk about Orange County, the captial of Conspiracy Theories. You know Obama has a passport, he travel abroad before he was a Senator, but I guess they were in on it.
In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right (people who love to push their beliefs on others while trying to take away the rights of those they just hate) and that’s who they need to extract from their party if they real want to win. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”.
I heard that she now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC). She wants to re-establish a family values party.
I can only hope that Taitz will resist the state collectors that will be coming to collect the $20K.
Mr. Moran, perhaps now you realize that the hosting media, Pajama, is riddled with loonies whose refusal to grow out of their puerile paranoia is a lucid signal to your level-headedness to disassociate yourself immediately from this bunch — the financial gain is not worth to tarnish the vision of Conservatism. These folks remind me of Loose Change brats who bellow into microphones to bestow their delusions any sense of rational. Unfortunately, the same sort of mentality is apparently salient and well alive on this site.
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