Options Limited in Debt Ceiling Mess
There are many approaches to the current debt limit mess and few of them are likely to work. The Cut, Cap and Balance bill that recently passed the House is unlikely to pass the Democratic-controlled Senate and, even if it did, President Obama has said that he would veto it. Even if he signed it, eventual ratification of the contemplated constitutional amendment by two-thirds of the states would be needed lest we be right back where we are — except for a big and quick increase in the debt limit likely followed by another in due course.
The Gang of Six plan, which President Obama seems to like, consists of five pages of highly non-specific language. If set to music, it might be a charming lullaby to put us to sleep. Beyond that, however, in its present form it can’t take effect anytime soon. It first has to be converted into legislative language and then evaluated by the Congressional Budget Office; as of now, there is nothing capable of being evaluated or enacted.
Nothing else presently in play is likely to pass the Congress by August 2, or even soon thereafter. Still, something will be done — perhaps just standing by and continuing to blather as the magic date comes and passes, with the problems unresolved and getting worse. There is likely no good outcome, nor, in view of our profligate spending, can one reasonably be expected. The “unexpected” debt limit mess has persisted far too long for anything better than the least bad outcome to be anticipated.
The debt limit mess has distracted us from other problems potentially even more severe than our domestic tribulations. The situations in the Middle East, on the Korean peninsula, in China, and in Russia continue to fester; the leaders there haven’t been kind enough to call a time out while we get our domestic act together. As we continue to fret, fume, and mumble it seems likely that they are thinking of ways to promote their own agendas rather than ours. The longer we take, the longer they will have and the less prepared — or even able — we will be to respond.
An interesting proposal was made by a Mr. Tony Blankley and published by Rasmussen as a way to get past the current debt limit mess. After explaining the lack of rationality embedded in the mess and in the reactions to it, he suggests:
The House should pass a debt ceiling rising for 190 days that raises the ceiling by about $1 trillion. The president said he would not sign a short-term bill as long as 180 days. Give him something he could sign without contradicting himself.
Ten days more than President Obama has already rejected seems unlikely to be accepted, unless as a part of the Gang of Six plan as a stop-gap ploy; while apparently thinking that courageous restraint is good on a real battleground, President Obama does not seem to find it acceptable for himself or for his colleagues at home. In any event, it is unclear how the debt ceiling would revert even to the current one or what incentives there might be to make that happen.
Attach to it about $1 trillion in discretionary spending cuts as identified by the Vice President Joe Biden-led negotiations. That would get real cuts and wouldn’t let Washington kick the can past the next election.
Spending cuts not put into specific legislative language capable of analysis by the Congressional Budget Office are meaningless. They are worse than a pig in a poke: at least with that it’s possible to know how much the pig weighs and whether it is alive or dead and rotting.
Then the House Ways and Means Committee should start hearings and markup on a general corporate tax reform that would lower rates and reduce or eliminate many credits, deductions and advanced schedules. That would take at least three months to negotiate but should yield both a more efficient system and more revenue (about $100 billion a year — while lowering rates).
First, we’re not gonna “default” if we don’t get this done by August 2nd. This is a pure BS scare tactic along with most political and ideological crap that comes out of Obama’s mouth.
Second; – Obama should be told to “sit down and quit disrupting the class”; he’s nothing but a pain in the ass and he’s being allowed to set the narrative.
Third; Raising the debt ceiling by accepting the Gang of Sleaze proposed plan or anything that lets the ceiling be raised; means only one thing:
Obama wins and he’ll continue with his radical anti-American agenda, steamrolling everything sacred in sight.
Fourth; Obama is afraid and is panicking big time as he sees his reelection prospect crumble. Any Dems and Republicans that do NOT stand up to this fool will also be waving goodbye to DC just as soon as elections arrive.
So there’s transparency alright; it’s very clear who the politicking morons are and who the statesmen are. We have been handed a gift – we can now sort the wheat from the chaff quiet handily; with or without a debt ceiling vote.
So, Husky: If the “default” concept is nothing but a political scare tactic, then of what importance is the debt ceiling anyway? Your position is self-contradictory – if the debt ceiling has any significance at all it is because some set of U.S. obligations cannot be met without raising it. Or are you saying that, in your deep understanding of exactly what obligations fall due on what dates, you know that the date of any default is not August 2 but is rather, for example, September 6?
I’m a business owner, a registered Republican, and as sick of the profligate waste of tax money as anyone but failure in assuring the ability of the U.S. to meet its previously undertaken obligations, agree with those obligations or not, is not an option.
Rob, we have the money to pay the interest on the debt. We just take it out of Discretionary, budgeted at 660 billion, or Defense, budgeted at 689 billion.
We could even consider cutting the handouts to the sick, lame and lazy, budgeted at 793 billion. Put it this way: we take in about 200 billion monthly. Interest on the Debt ranges from 15 to 20 billion. FIRST we pay the interest on the Debt, THEN all the other obligations. What we don’t pay: Billions to international banks and money funds; the UN; vote buying subsidies to special interests; bailouts; stimulus funds; payments to the Fed; etc.
We never need to borrow another nickel again; and we must not do so.
Oscumbo et al are deliberately trying to destroy our economy to manufacture a rationale for a dictatorial takeover of the entire country. Sooner or later he will “go for it” and make Antietam and Gettysburg look like Sunday School picnics.
Geithner, a good little flunky, will just print some more worthless “dollars” and Oshambo will sign an illegal executive order dispensing them to some of his international banker masters. The people of the USA will, of course be charged for the printing, and will pay interest on the dollars printed and “loaned” to us. So, don’t sweat it, Rob! Obimbo and friends have a sure thing going, because the American People will never wake up, understand that they have been financially raped since 1913; and then do something meaningful about it. Not enough smarts and very little guts in what was once the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
Husky Not disagreeing with your opinion but here’s the real problem: Should the US dollar default or be downgraded as a soverign debt than were screwed. Banks that hold obligations of the US would be asked to put up additional collateral. You can kiss 1/3rd of the banks good bye in Europe and a run on US banks is inevitable…hello Depression
That being said if we don’t stop Obamas runaway spending thats exactally where were heading. No easy answer. What I don’t want is to have the blame come down on the wrong side and we hand this guy the next election. We don’t need this menthol smoking educated idiot another 4 years or the next Government will have the word World in the title before or instead of the words United States.
Whatever happened to that idea the Republicans had of getting a dollar of spending cuts for ever dollar of increase in the debt limit? I guess that idea was just too simple to adopt. If Obama wants his $2 1/2 trillion in debt increase, then find $2 1/2 trillion in cuts. And you won’t even have to raise taxes to do it, because taxes are NOT the same as CUTS, which is what the idea was all about. It may not balance the budget, but at least it would hold spending under control and buy some time until a new president is elected in 2012.
GO AHEAD, hit the debt limit. The only thing that happens is that Øbama has to finally CUT something instead of just talk about abstracts. There’s NO downside to hitting the limit. It just means that we’ve maxxed out the credit card.
Unless BHO decides to punish us by arbitrarily withholding monthly checks to retired and active duty military, senior citizens’ Social Security, and other selected targets he can make a point with. There’s no need to do that, but when he gets in punish mode he doesn’t care. Then his spinmeisters will convince ObamaVoters that it is all the Republicans’ fault, and the ObamaVoters will reelect the dangerous piece of trash.
This is all working according to plan, since the liberals have pretty successfully neutralized the morality and faith in God that a Republic needs its citizens to have in order to keep that Republic.
The Constitution has validity only if all players follow the rules. That is clearly no longer the case. We have our own Chavez, our own Sandinistas, and the Oppos are a bunch of ineffective babblers like McConnell. Good luck with that.
“UNEXPECTED!!”; Haaahaaaahaaahaaaa!
These felons in Congress are thinking they can make us believe everything’s “unexpected”. They simply are not doing their jobs. From Obama on up, (Obama being the Democrat door mat), they are EXPECTED to maintain a CALENDAR to be prepared for upcoming events and legislation. These dolts are treating their jobs like any excess government worker that goes to work not knowing what to expect to do each day.
They are completely negligent in their duties to the American People and our form of established government. All they do, from day to day, is engage in character assassinations and policy fraud. And they are getting paid excellent wages for this negligence.
If We The People cannot overhaul our Congress and administration ourselves, then another country is going to force an overhaul when they attack us. I hope this message gets posted before the internet is attacked and shut down.
We really look like a nation of incompetent fools.
And thanks to the main stream suck up media that pander to the felons in Congress, and engage in the same behavior for a fine profit.
They all live in fantasy land. It isn’t about solving the problem they created themselves, it’s about painting the next fantasy landscape.
Here is reality:
- The spending has to stop very soon or the country is toast
- But there isn’t going to be a consensus when the marxists hold 2 branches
- The debt limit is going to be lifted, because if it isn’t, the commitments of the US won’t be fulfilled and it will be a disaster. Yes, the debt service will be paid, SS, and military, but the commitments go far beyond that, and even though we all think they are nonsense, unwinding them will not happen immediately
- There will be no agreement to make the necessary massive spending cuts.
- There will be an agreement to make smoke and mirror spending cuts.
The only question is whether the Republicans will fold on taxes. The answer to that is probably yes, but perhaps the Tea Partiers will be able to stop it. The insane, idiotic strategy of the Republicans, including many Tea Partiers, has only made it more difficult.
The best that can happen is:
- no new taxes
- a short-term deal so that new, sane Republican leadership can have another do in 2012
- some limitted, real spending cuts
Every Republican should have known this from the first minute, and the strategy should have revolved around minimizing the damage. It has been a MASSIVE strategic error to try for a major victory holding only one house.
The fantasy games have played into the marxists’ hands.
Washington Republicans are danergerous, self-serving fools. Many are worse than that.
Breaking News:
Uh, not so fast.
Well that is good news isn’t it. How depressing it would be if they all agreed to this $3 trillion in reduced spending over the next decade.
First, that is only $300 billion per year and that is less than 10% of annual spending. We are in the worst financial crisis in 80 years and the best we can do is cut back 10% !? Ask any of the unemployed if they would take back their former job at a 10% pay cut. The lunch would be packed in one minute.
Secondly, there is no way to enforce even those modest reductions. The can would be kicked down the road until all $3 trillion would come due in the last two years.
We need a radical change here – and I am afraid that civil disobedience is the only method that has a chance. A citizens group should set a flat tax rate and announce that the government needs to run on that rate and only on that rate. Any additional borrowing causes the rate to drop in proportion. Then let the political parties rise and fall based on how well they can administer the government’s business with that amount of money. Those who really want to fix this thing should join together and pay only that flat rate amount to the IRS. Why not? They can’t put 30-50 million people in jail.
Yeah, this is as about as “unexpected” as sunrise and sunset. As others have noted, there is plenty of revenue coming in to pay off the interest coming due in August (and September, October, you get the idea). Not paying bond holders would be defaulting and that will not happen. This whole default hysteria is just the same old DC theatre.
Proreason says, “It has been a MASSIVE strategic error to try for a major victory holding only one house.”
Quite right.
Well, yes. However, this is not unexpected. According to White House Press Secretary Jay Carney,
I am certainly glad to hear that, from a truly credible source; the country is obviously in the very best of hands. I had mistakenly thought otherwise. Now that Mr. Carney has made the White House position “uncontestably” clear, we must yield graciously and gratefully and give President Obama all that he wants and more.
Isn’t politics great. If you have a business, try telling your creditors that they should be happy that the amounts you owe aren’t even larger – as they would have been if you hadn’t done such a great job. If you are a salesperson, try telling your boss that if not for all your skill and hard work, the bad numbers you delivered would have been even worse. Where can I get a job where like this? – Oh yea – in government.
An inferior health care plan that no one wants and CANNOT afford to pay. The threat to jail and/or fine those who don’t purchase the government enforced plan.
Massive spending as if there is no tomorrow. Fighting wars we have no money for. Massive borrowing. The Massive giving away of Billions of dollars every year to other countries, including the oil-wealthy Middle East, Hamas-controlled Gaza and the Palestinian Authority organization who fill their war chests, build mansions and laugh all the way to the bank with free infidel money. Whilst in America, homeless shelters are filled to capacity; tent cities have sprung up all over the U.S. filled with desperate, jobless, homeless, NEGLECTED Americans.
Massive debt. The massive printing of paper money out of thin air GUARANTEED to create out-of-control inflation. There is no question that the total DESTRUCTION of America’s economy is planned. The results will be horrifying. In the once wealthy and great nation of America, millions of Americans will become destitute, hungry and homeless with no money or resources to help them.
A major investor states America is going to reach Zimbabwe hyperinflation.
http://economyincrisis.org/articles/show/2942
Organic, non-gmo avocado, fruit and nut trees and berries must be planted in all of our nation’s cities’ and towns’ parks to help the many millions of Americans who will soon be in a desperate struggle to survive.
Watch it. And weep for our great nation and people:
FALL Of The Republic – The Presidency Of Barack H Obama – The Full Movie HQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LPNRI_6T8&feature=player_embedded
Fools
Conservatives who actually should be the intelligent and sensible part of the population fall for “time limit hoaxes” again and again. Yes I’m talking to you morons on this site. I can’t believe you all are this stupid. First thing you should know when dealing with salesmen and other people with an agenda is to know the following. And listen carefully my stupid friends: Whenever a salesman tells you to buy something before a certain time limit or else the offer will expire, or it will become more expensive, or it will be sold out….. you should STOP AND DON’T DO A GODDAMN THING.
Conservatives for some reason are biggest collection of gullible idiots to ever walk this earth. And liberals and other con artist has figured this out and milked this cow to the max.
You are largely right about this issue but in general, could I suggest some training in civility and anger management.
Read this to understand what is being talked about.
http://bit.ly/nnwvB4
heya, fine article, and an amazing understand! one for my favorites.