Of Course There’s Astroturfing by the GOP
Speaking to the definitional issue of “disguising organizational efforts,” the entire goal of such a counter protest is undermined when participants are caught on film in blatant lies. This was on display in the case of Heather Blish, who showed up at a town hall held by Congressman Steve Kagen (D-Wisconsin) to heckle the speaker and then informed a local television reporter that she was “just a mom from the neighborhood” with no political affiliations. It must have taken astute observers all of two minutes on Google to discover that she had been the vice chair of the county Republican Party until last year and a worker on several past and present GOP campaigns. Such attempts at subterfuge do nothing but reinforce the public perception that Astroturfing is alive and well in the health care debate.
Perhaps the more important question before us, though, is the precise nature of the sort of activities being endorsed. The debate is clearly one of the more important issues of the day. Not only will some of the Democratic proposals currently under discussion be ruinous to the insurance industry, and the economy in general, but they will likely degrade the options and quality of care available to the roughly 80% of Americans who currently have — and generally approve of — their own private health insurance policies. But as is so often the case, how you get your message across is equally important as the argument itself.
Are we attending these meetings to ask intelligent, incisive questions of our elected representatives or just to grab headlines and shut down the public discourse? Winning the public debate relies on the projection of an image of the responsible adults stepping in to prevent government folly, and informing supporters of ObamaCare exactly what they are signing on for if such a massive disruption of the system is allowed. That’s not what we seem to be getting for our investment of time and effort.
The issuing of “best practice memos” instructing attendees to disrupt events, use “shout outs,” and put the speaker “on the defensive” doesn’t exactly encourage mature debate. And of course, the more heated the participants become, the greater the risk that encounters will flare up into violence. This has already resulted in incidents of fisticuffs in St. Louis, people being hospitalized in Tampa, and phoned in threats of gun violence against ObamaCare supporters.
Of course, it’s happening on both sides, with opponents of the proposed legislation being beaten up by liberal protesters. This is informed discourse? It leads to the tempting response of saying, “But … but … the other guys are. …”
Spare us the protestations. What liberal supporters of these initiatives do is none of your affair. If they wish to play the fool in front of the media and resort to violence rather than reasoned argument, let them. It will serve their opponents far more than themselves.
This is a debate which should be easily won on the facts of the matter. Anyone tracking the arc of current polling can see that the public is becoming more and more well informed on the topic, with 41% agreeing with opponents of health care reform as opposed to only 35% who side with supporters. A staggering 81% now believe that controlling runaway government spending — a hallmark of the current administration and congressional majority, typified in the health care reform proposals — is of significant interest and appeal for them. Finally, a clear majority of 52% register disapproval of Obama’s approach to the health care question.
This debate not only can be won, it is being won. And it can be done in a civil, adult fashion without resorting to thuggish tactics or “shouting down” elected representatives when they actually have a chance to hear from their constituents in person. There is no need to astroturf your way to victory or resort to insults and violence when the finish line is already in sight. That way lays madness and a backlash from the voters just when you’re getting them on your side.
This author’s writing is delusional.
Do I get it right: he thinks, because Michelle Malkin writes about the healthcare debate and suggests others become informed and active, that this qualifies as GOP “astroturfing”?!
I may be a dinosaur, but I *do* believe the quaint abbreviation is: WTF?!
There’s a reason such muddled thinkers are identified as RINOs.
Idiot. Look at the video of Obama’s supporters bused in and given signs versus the Tea party people driving to these meetings and making their own signs.
Democrats have a habit of accusing the opposition of doing things they do. Cries of Nazism was common by democrats during Bush so they claim GOP do it. Cries of Astroturf because that is what they do.
One of the more insulting features of the town hall meetings is that the Senators and Representatives don’t have an actual piece of legislation to summarize and discuss with scared citizens. The health insurance reform bill is being hammered out in secret negotiations between Congressional leaders, the White House and lobbyists for Big Pharma and the insurance industry.
Senators and Representatives are being sent out to sell a bill that doesn’t even exist yet, but whose emerging outlines are terrifying to many people. It doesn’t help that some Congressmen openly brag about how that haven’t bothered to read the draft legislation they so vehemently support, but whose impact they will never personally feel because of their own gold-plated heath coverage.
It is impossible to have a civilized health care debate under these facts.
Totally disagree and take issue with the equivocation between those protesting and those counter-protesting.
The vast majority of those who are against socialized medicine and the rapidly encroaching Big Brother state, are private citizens who more than likely have never done anything more in their lives except grumble at the TV or write a note to their elected representatives. When people like Michelle Malkin give addresses and phone numbers, it gives a point where unaffiliated individuals can rally to. These are not actors. Their anger and passion is real, not staged, faked or bought off. This is a grassroots movement if ever there was one.
It’s the unions, special interests and Democrat operatives who have an organized, centralized infrastructure for rallying thugs, goons and shills at a moment’s notice to protest and harass a chosen target. Most of these people are poor and will do their bidding for a meal and a t-shirt. The others are union members, many of whom are coerced into it by fear of retribution.
Are they the product of random concerned citizens speaking out on a pressing issue of personal concern or the orchestrated, Machiavellian schemes of shadowy power brokers? The short answer is, of course they are astroturfed.
The short answer is that you are, as usual wrong. The public is genuinely concerned and angry.
This debate not only can be won, it is being won. And it can be done in a civil, adult fashion without resorting to thuggish tactics or “shouting down” elected representatives when they actually have a chance to hear from their constituents in person.
The debate is being won. It doesn’t need any “help” from people like you and Frum who would rather attack those who are on to The Thug, rather than the The Thug himself.
Unlike you, they realize that what is being orchestrated is the “Townhall” meetings of The Thug, complete with a ostensibly spontaneous, but in reality a pre-planned question from a child whom he “randomly” selected.
“If they wish to play the fool in front of the media and resort to violence rather than reasoned argument, let them. It will serve their opponents far more than themselves.”
Yes, as we have seen, letting the other side resort to violence (ELF, WTO protestors) and act like fools (Code Pink) served the conservative side so well that Obama, Reid and Pelosi were all kept from high posts in government.
/sarcasm off
With planning like this we can hold our heads up high as we are forced into the gas chamber.
You are right about the screaming and yelling, because they only lead to more of the same. But citing one example of an activist and trying to prove that there is no spontaneity is wrong. One also has to wonder how many illegal aliens are respondents of those polls you cited? The major failure of your attempt to paint this as astro-turfing is your obvious failure to point out how these protests got started in the first place. The call for ‘tea parties” was made spontaneously by Rick Santelli on national television. It was not sponsored, and it was not phony. Many people do not like the direction in which the country is being led. People decided to have the tea parties. Why did you fail to mention this? This was not staged. You also failed to provide one example of conservatives using thuggery, like the purple shirted union mobsters did the other day. Of course one could ask what people are protesting about? After all, through out the bills I have seen so far, it says that the “Secretary” will, after a period of time, like 6 months to a year, provide a list on the specifics of the legislation. In other words ObamaCare, if passed, in any of its recent incarnations, is nothing more than a BIG BLANK CHECK for the government to do as it pleases. Even the Fraud in the Oval Office would not respond to the question of whether or not he is willing to put himself and his family under his own program. So tell us Mr. Shaw, why should anyone support it, when we don’t even know what the final form will be?
Jazz Shaw’s articles are painful examples of a sane, honest writer trying to address an audience which demands frenzied delusion. This sort of appeasement of the mad fringe won’t work, and makes for some very awkward contortions–but there’s something rather moving about it.
OK, so where did I sign up to take directions?
I’ve been commenting since Jazz has been out of diapers and the last time anybody told me what to do was in the Marine Corps. One example doesn’t constitute evidence, but the case for a conspiracy seems thin, absent some sort of journolist site, doesn’t it?
Since a negative is impossible to disprove, this is a pretty easy argument to make, isn’t it? You get an F. Stop wasting my time.
If astroturfing’s definition includes the idea of “not authentic”, then I don’t see that the argument has changed. Much of what the liberals have done over the years has been patently inauthentic with false foundations and phony rationale and lying projections about the future.
The ideas that grassroots people are yelling about today (yelling because Congress won’t listen….like Deborah yells at Raymond on Everybody Loves Raymond….”you’re the REASON for the yeller!”)…the ideas they are yelling about have not “been organized” by anyone except their own minds, their frustration and their decision to say what they’re thinking.
Maybe the GOP does do some “astroturfing”. But I can pretty well guarantee you that to the extent they do, their conservative base neither supports nor respects it.
This resistance that is occurring across the country is specifically NOT a GOP-limited phenomena. It includes common sense Democrats, fed-up Independents AND conservative Republicans. In fact, the GOP needs to mind its manners and not be presumptious about acting like it HAS been all about them, and thinking they have ownership of the whole thing. They don’t. The GOP’s incompetence over recent years is part of what is fueling the anger from Republicans.
It’s one thing to wish anti-Obamacare demonstrators would be more civil; it’s quite another to accept the Left’s patently dishonest premises and narrative of events.
Yes, both sides organize and try to pre-script what people will say at even the smallest events. Yet, in the “astroturfing” fight, it’s important to ask yourself two questions in order to put this debate into its proper perspective:
1.) Who invented “astroturfing,” and who makes his living, both material and political, off of this tactic?
2.) Who made it an issue in the first place?
Saying that “both sides do it equally” is false and displays astonishing ignorance about the current political scene.
People are losing their cool and are shouting at their elected representatives instead of listening to them. Could that be because they’ve been listening for years, but those representatives have been going to such great lengths to avoid saying anything helpful or that sheds light on any fact or process?
That is exactly what’s happening. So many members of Congress have been lying to their constituents and treating them like serfs or proles for so long that people are angry, first and foremost, at the insult to their intelligence that the efforts to force Obamacare through represents.
It’s true that Obamacare is a real p.o.s. But what really is driving the rage is the hemming and hawing and mumbling at simple questions (exemplified by Arlen Spector), the self-righteous anger at the temerity of mere serfs to not accept the patently untruthful excuses of a Claire McCaskill, the accusations of racism by the likes of Pelosi, Hoyer, Dingell, et. al, and the open contempt for them displayed by a Sheila Jackson Lee.
And as Mr. Shaw surely must know, there was never any violence at any of these events until, answering the White House’s call to “punch back twice as hard,” union goons started showing up to these meetings to enforce the rules of “civility.”
War is being made on the American people by their government, but Mr. Shaw wants the people to fight it according to the aggressor’s rules of engagement.
Average Americans are speaking directly to their elected officials. It may not be as polished as the usual lobbyists that Congress deems worthy enough to hear from but it’s real.
The Community Organizer-in-Chief cannot stop communities from organizing. Why is he trying to?
Shaw is in fantasy land.
I’ve been politically active most of my adult life and I never heard of the leaders of my local Tea Party until they organized their first event in February. When the local GOP chair showed up at that event, she was given a very frosty reception. None of the leaders of the Tea Party movement were delegates at the District GOP convention held a few weeks later, either.
In fact, one leader of the local grass roots protests wouldn’t be caught dead anywhere near the GOP. He’s a 60s counter culture type who has been on the political left most of his life. The spending binge made him realize his freedoms were being eroded, one by one, by technocrats ever bit as disdainful to him as Robert Strange McNamara had ever been.
So a mom who is also a Republican activist who shows up at a townhall is an example of astroturf? This is the problem with RINOs. Always attempting to assert moral equivalence where there is none in order to declare themselves above the fray by virtue of their intellectual superiority. Kathleen Parker attempts to do the same thing in her most recent article. They just can’t seem to wrap their arms around the fact that average citizens do engage themselves when threatened.
I find those who are concerned with the tone of the town halls and equating that with astroturfing don’t understand the concept.
Jazz defines it and argues that any organizational effort (twitter, emails) to mobilize attendance is the same as bussing in hired or “organized” protesters. The difference between letting people know there is a town hall and urging them to attend a meeting (grassroots activity) and bringing in people simply to parrot the party line de jeur is astroturfing. Look at the people who show up and you can easily see the difference between those who are there because they are upset and want their Representative to know it and those who are brought in because they show up at every protest, often not having a clue what they are protesting till they get off the bus and their bullhorn brandishing leader directs them and passes out the signs.
Jazz thinks the debate can be won. But there is no debate….this is an effort by the dems to cram down a deeply unpopular program, laudable goals of universal coverage aside. The Representatives are facing and hearing the real voice of their constituents rather being cocooned in Washington or in “friendly” astroturfed meetings with Acorn or their union supporters.
WTH, Jazz Shaw is the poster child for what the heck? PJ must be trying to broaden the discussion to include non thinkers. Is Jazz Shaw really Kathleen Parker. Such shallow thinking is not believable.
Jazz Shaw save your sanctimony on someone it will work on. We rubes will never understand your nuanced political acumen we’re just not as smart or sophisticated as you are.
Its hard to be spontaneous when you have to get permits and roust the media to be interested. A rally or protest where no one pays attention is hardly useful.
Not only is paying demonstrators different from organizing them, hiding one’s activity is also different form openly organizing. Note Pew’s efforts to subsidize campaign finance reform efforts, and then report on it as though they had nothing to with it in the first place.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110006449
Juvenal #12 So many members of Congress have been lying to their constituents and treating them like serfs or proles for so long that people are angry, first and foremost, at the insult to their intelligence that the efforts to force Obamacare through represents.
Exactly right. The opponents of Obamacare come to these townhalls informed by other than the MSM. When the representative starts lying about what’s in the bill, they get angry and start shouting and booing. If the Reps want civil discussion, they need to stick to the facts.
Re Andrew IanDodge: “A rally or protest where no one pays attention is hardly useful.” EXACTLY! Would the MSM or the Obama administration have paid attention to a few meek and mild citizens asking questions in middle America? NO! It took loud and angry voices to get their attention. God Bless those who took a chance and stepped out to start this movement! True patriots!
From a recent experience at an older indoor soccer facility I can attest to the fact that Astroturf leaves a nasty carpet burn. So call us whatever they want 2010 is just around the corner….
JAzz, it’s the hypocirsy, stupid.
There’s a difference when private groups send out a clarion call, with guidelines for questions (or even questions to ask) than an official “grassroots” arm of the DNC doing the same thing. There is nothing wrong with either, but one is more manufactured than the other. This is politics, and it has been done to varying degrees throughout the history of our republic.
It is funny however, to see one side charge that the protestors on the other are “paid shills” of insurance companies, the RNC, etc, while openly soliciting for *paid* volunteers to help organize their message. The lack of irony is striking – it’s almost as if they believe that whatever they do is justified by the righteousness of their cause, but the other side cannot even have the barest appearance of the same.
Dear Lord! What is it with you so-called “moderates Republicans”? Is it in some secret Rulebook somewhere that you must either ignore or downplay Democratic/liberal malfeasance to be a “moderate”? Is it an absolute requirement that you must leap to echo Left-Wing talking points and direct your fire strictly on your own side?
Why in the name of all that is Holy that the only time so-called “moderate Republicans” get up to complain about hardball politics it is always to attack other Republicans with nary a peep about the Democratic dirty tricks that preceded the response? A Republican can be the subject of an ad photoshopping him into Klan sheets and not a single moderate would be found complaining beyond anodyne whines extolling “bipartisanship”. It’s only after the Republican responds with an actual picture of his Democratic opponent in blackface and “moderate Republicans” like Jazz Shaw would be up in arms attacking the Republican and only the Republican for damaging “civil discourse.”
Why are you a Republican if, as far as you are concerned, the Democrats are never wrong and Republicans are practically never right? And even if we get the “moderates” to accept that Republicans are right, their “approach” is always wrong.
People are driving (or walking since they tend to be locals) to these events by themselves with signs made at home by themselves (with no evidence of coercion or financial compensation for it despite all the Left and their media allies’ screams to the contrary) and you’re calling them astroturf? Because someone publicized when and where these events were going to take place on a blog?
Compare this to Obama (stop drooling) and his Democrats. They’re bussing people (ginned up by union bosses – surprising that no member of the media is willing to explore the question of whether they are being paid) in from out-of-state, handing them prepared signs and giving them preferential seating at these town halls … and as far as your are concerned, they are not astroturf?
Finally, average everyday people are clamoring to be heard instead of passively allowing themselves to be ruled by the Cocktail Set. This terrifies people like Shaw for some reason.
There has been some astroturfing, but I think many of the people coming out are doing so on their own accord. Mainly because they are nuts that are looking to either draw attention to themselves or because they are delusional.
It’s one thing to come ready with some statistics, deep questions, or heart-felt personal experiences to share. It’s another to rant on about communists, birth certificates and making everyone do the pledge of allegiance.
If Obama’s presidency has done one thing, its made all the crazies with certain deepseated fears come out from under the rotten logs they reside under.
Conservative arguing with each other about whether they’re real or not. Classic. If you reach an impasse, holler, I can set you straight. (Not that you’re gay or anything.)
Screaming and shaking our fists were the ONLY things that finally, finally, finally made the liberal MSMs pay any attention to all the very angry citiizens who won’t be force-fed this socialist horse-shit!
AzTeaPartier: Tone it down friend or the liberals here will either accuse you of being a racist or they’ll say you were paid to be here. Remember, liberals are the only group allowed to speak out in public contrary to what that Constitution told you.
Amusing. Whoever wrote this must have sat back in the armchair, put on his cynical wisdom hat, and really worked hard on this.
Try going to a few of these events. I did. I’m 57, never attended a protest or rally in my life before. I talked to others present, none of whom had ever protested before either. Can’t say nobody in the crowd ever did, but if so, they were few.
We are working people, who often take time off work to attend these events. If you prefer to think our anger is manufactured, go ahead. If you think you can convince people we are phonies, go ahead and try. We know who we are, our families and friends know who we are. We know what we are angry about. We aren’t going away.
Now and Then;
Sorry to disappoint you, but Republicans who only ever attack other Republicans like Jazz Shaw are usually on your side … they’re just being dishonest about it.
Something I’m sure you’re very familiar with.
Middleman must have a very active fantasy life. I’ve heard of no one going on about Obama’s Birth Certificate or forcing anyone to recite the Pledge of Allegiance at any of the Town Halls.
PS: I believe less than 5% of the GOP base is questioning Obama’s status as a natural born citizen. In fact, the main person that has filed suits is a Democrat Hillary supporter.
Compare that to the 30% of Democrats who believe Bush pulled down the Twin Towers … or the 70% of Democrats who are absolutely convinced that Trig Palin is his own sister’s child.
Crazy is on both sides. But more on the Left than Right.
(GASP) Do you mean to tell me that people were actually saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at those townhall meetings? HOW DARE THEY!! I’m going to contact the ACLU and file a formal complaint!
32.
The Youtube video of the fat lady up in Delaware that sparked the Townhall anger and the birther movement had everyone do the Pledge of allegiance with her. Most likely because she had nothing else to add to the debate.
28.
Shaking your fists because you aren’t being heard eh? Poor boy, who ever wants to listen to a white male anymore?
Freedum isnt free. The price of liburty is constant survaylance. Besides, what do you have to hide? If your not a terorest you will be fine, otherwise we get rid of you in some camp where you belong! As long as all repulicans fights this war for victury any and all sacrafises must be made to inshure securitty. Gingrich/Palin in 12!
Ok, Einstein, when was the last political protest that wasn’t organized in some way or other? Please provide an example with evidence that it was totally spontaneous. By your standard, MLK and the civil rights marches were “astroturfed”.
The bright line should be whether or not the “protesters” are paid. The left has been caught red-handed engaging in paid protests. There’s no evidence that any of the tea partiers have been paid a nickel. If you disagree, please provide credible evidence.
Middleman,
Keep your stories straight. That fat woman sparked up the Town Hall “anger”? Certainly shoots all sorts of holes into the whole “astroturf” meme the President (I believe you on the Left refer to him as “God”) has invested himself in, don’t it?
I’ll be sending your details to flag@whitehouse.gov …
PS: Thousands of people are attending those Town Halls and all you’ve got is one woman? And heck, I didn’t notice her holding a gun to a cute puppy’s head and threatening to shoot unless everyone said the Pledge of Allegiance.
And finally, I see you trying to glide past the eight years of crazy on your side; Trig, 9/11, Bush building concentration camps for gays, etc.
Hey, Jizz, does the name ACORN mean anything to you?
“Are we attending these meetings to ask intelligent, incisive questions of our elected representatives or just to grab headlines and shut down the public discourse?”
Let’s see.
Congress attempts to pass a bill none of them read which is overwhelmingly rejected by their consituents.
Consituents complaints to Congressional offices are ignored until the ruckus is nearly deafening.
Congress shelves legislation until recess so they can go out and ‘splain it to the rubes via Townhall Meetings.
Towhnhall Meetings reveal that Congresscritters STILL haven’t read the bill, and are lying through their teeth. Any attempt to question them is met with union goons or derision.
So now, at this point, you’re suggesting we need to have a reasonable discourse? We’re close to mass civil revolt because our representatives aren’t listening – do you think being nice now is going to get their attention?
Astroturfing does not refer to people who are organized to protest an issue. It is NOT Astroturfing when somebody gets information about an organized protest from a blog or talk radio program, feels passionately about the issue, and decides to join the activity. That is a legitimate grassroots movement, representing actual voters who will have a say in the next election.
Astroturfing is when people are paid (or volunteer) to express “fake” positions on the issues. ACORN and the like are professionals paid a wage to show up and protest for liberal causes — that’s Astroturfing. The liberal “seminar callers” who call into radio programs and read a script provided by the Obama campaign are Astroturfers. Both are examples of people trying to create the appearance of a political movement, to inflate the number of voters it is perceived to represent.
How do you think they got in the Oval Office, through Soros and ACORN, Axelrod spreading lies
through Youtube, and other of his astroturfing efforts.
Sorry, I´m not buying. By that standard every public democtration is astroturfing and the word becomes meaningless. But we have learned its meaning during the fall of 2008. Guess you weren´t there, Jazz.
Meanwhile the Effendi packs townhalls with supporters and Democrats call citizens un-American every other day. You really have no other problems to tend to, Jazz?
Look, it isn’t fair that you have to hold yourselves to higher standards than the opposition or get called racists in the pages of the New York Times. It isn’t fair that journalists who have spent thirty years fetishizing the fake activism of ACORN grow apoplectic at the sight of you showing up for a town hall meeting in your own hometown. It isn’t fair that Cynthia McKinney and Al Sharpton and Bill Ayers get taken seriously by anybody while you are called an unhinged nut.
None of this is fair. Suck it up. You’re going to have to behave 5000% better than the opposition, and you’re still going to get blamed if some union thug slips into your face and breaks your nose. None of that is going to make shouting down politicians a defensible strategy, even those pols who are blocking you out of the democratic process. Especially those.
I think the vast majority of Americans on both sides of this debate are fair people who are able to think for themselves, despite what is printed in the newspapers. And because of that, it’s important not to stoop to the level of the Ayers/ACORN/labor thug crowd. It will eventually be acknowledged.
Give them enough rope: they’ll use it. Let them keep talking. I’m not saying retreat: react with discipline and silent witness. Object to the sick characterizations of you in the press, in writing, often. Shame them with their own words. Take notes and get out every last vote, every single time. They are better at playing dirty: that is no point of pride.
Ok, so simply asking people to show up and state their opinion is “astroturfing”.
Do we have a new term for paying people to profess an opinion regardless of what they believe? To be bussed in and be paid shills without actually asking their opinion?
You know, the older definition of astroturfing, that has been replaced by any form of “community organizing” which is now bad.
DO we have a term to replace the old one? Using astroturfing for both seems deceptive somehow. Kind of like in the article above where they’re assumed to be comparable or the same.
Word of mouth is now “astroturfing.” As compelling an argument as ever, Jazz.
I think conservatives should vote on the world’s dumbest blogger – you or Rick “Moron” at Right Wing Nuthouse. Rick is pretty bad, but you get my vote.
Hopefully you have a real job like shining shoes or roping goats because you suck at this.
#34 ….Middleman….Will you finally change your user name? You are a radical leftist.
#34…Middleman…The self-loathing guilt tripped white liberal that comes on PM everyday stating he’s middle of the road. Is there an honest liberal left in America?
So let me get this straight…
An ordinary citizen attends a protest or “town hall” event after reading about it on a blog encouraging support, and it’s “astroturfing” if that blog has a significant number of readers?
That notion is ridiculous beyond belief.
You want examples of Astroturfing? Look for the paid Obama supporters being bussed in carrying mass-produced signs as members of a highly funded DNC-coordinated organization. Take a look at the politically-connected “ordinary citizens” that Obama almost exclusively takes questions from at his town hall events.
Jazz Shaw: Beclowning himself on a daily basis. Shows at 12:00, 2:00, 4:00.
43. Tina Trent
And most important of all: bring a camera to a gunfight.
Jazz,
I would have liked to tell you how incredibly wrong you are over at TMV, but Gandelman banned me for telling him how incredibly wrong he was.
No problem.
By trying so hard to find the middle ground by relying on the demonstrably false “both sides do it” mantra of squishy centrists, your article warps the time-space continuum of logic and reality. You conflate normal human interaction with coordinated, activist financed astroturfing – and you do it with straight face.
Unbelievable. Literally unbelievable.
Peddle this tripe where the audience is a bit less discerning.
From what I have seen it appears that the majority of town hall attendees are elderly, and are concerned about their future health coverage. This is why AARP quickly struck down the endorsement remark from Obama.
So you have the most reliable voting base showing their concerns about the current healthcare legislation, and you have the two head Dems calling them un-american or evil-mongers.
We may be witnessing the stupidest politicians in the history of mankind.
Right on cue, Harry exceeds your expectations:
http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/08/13/reid-protesters-are-evil-mongers/
The original Boston Tea Party was astroturf right? I mean according to what you are saying in this article.
“…It’s one thing to come ready with some statistics, deep questions, or heart-felt personal experiences to share. It’s another to rant on about communists, birth certificates and making everyone do the pledge of allegiance….”
MIddleman, in every townhall I have read about, the protesters knew more about the bill than their elected officials, who spoke vague talking points from the administration. Protesters quoted chapter & verse from HR Bill 3200.
BTW the White House has been sitting down with Dem lawmakers to coach them in how to present the bill & respond to protesters. Is this Astroturf?
Tina, so far the vast majority of protesters are yelling & waving signs. None of them have engaged in physical violence. As for tearing up the oppositions signs, a pro-Obamacare protester ripped up an anti’s sign last week, so there we are 1 for 1. I don’t see anti-Obamacare protesters “guarding” meetings with union shirts on, bussed in from out of town, given identical signs, bussed in, and positioned as plants in Obama’s audiences. In any case, that’s what Obama calls “community organizing.” The left doesn’t have a monopoly on that.
Way to go, Mr Shaw, another waste of five minutes of my life reading your drivel. Where do you come up with this Bravo Sierra and — in this case — how do you justify it in terms of the kabuki theater that transpires at the hands of Obama and his crowd.
The set-ups, props, and incredible string of coincidences that the Dems come up with is just breathtakingly stupefying..
..as are your efforts to pigeon-hole true dissent by indignant Americans.
Speaking of Astroturf and all its derivatives, something tells me this writer thinks “Jazz” refers to Kenny G.
Shaw:
Massive FAIL.
“If he seriously thought that other people would be hurt if he published the cartoons, then isn’t he right not to publish them? What right has he to put others at risk?” is exactly right. Chartered buses, pre-prinrted signs, professional crowd directors and organizers- THAT is astroturfing. Media folks getting the word out about a date and time, for people to go on their own if they feel like it, is nothing of the sort.
I think the word you’re looking for is “viral.” Thanks to the Internet, a movement has coalesced ex nihilo without any salaried “community organizers.”
Wow, lot of people getting riled up over nothing. Go back and read Jay701′s thoughts in comment #4. What he describes in way of negotiation is exactly what is going on. All the while, the top executives of Big Pharma and Big Insurance are laughing all the way to the bank at the efforts made by the tea partiers and other upset citizens. You’re doing their work for them.
Check out the Business Week article from August 3 entitled “The Tight Grip of Health Insurers.” Subtitle is: “in most markets, a couple of companies are dominant. A public plan could force them to cut premiums.” All you folks ranting about a public plan being “against free enterprise” are protecting practices of monopoly & oligopoly.
And, for those of you who are against socialized medicine, can we assume you won’t be applying for Medicare benefits? Or VA benefits?
For the record, there is much about the Obama plan I don’t like. But those who are defending the current system ought to take a close look at it. You may not like what you find.
What is this Jazz Shaw person doing having space here? If it weren’t for the fancy header, it would be considered a troll.
GAZE.
59. SteveB/Colorado writes:
“..For the record, there is much about the Obama plan I don’t like. But those who are defending the current system ought to take a close look at it. You may not like what you find.”
Steve, respectfully, 80% of us out here do like what we have found.
Meanwhile there’s a “viral” talking points email by Axlerod making the rounds…
Shaw wrote:
Who the F— do you think invented “Astroturfing”, Jazz? The Libtards. Now they complain if we use their own tactics on them? Pot, meet kettle.
No, astroturfing has nothing to do with spontaneity. Astroturfing is making it appear that large numbers of people who don’t exist support your cause.
This reaction to ObamaCare, and what the administration is talking about is not astroturfing, it’s community organizing. And they should STFU. I don’t want the people who got us into this mess to do a lot of talking…
Another moronic article from Mr. Shaw, who attempts to write an article about something he clearly has no knowledge of. It is an epic fail to accuse people of astroturfing when you don’t even know what the term means. I have no clue why this guy is given a forum on this site. It is not that he is a RINO, he is a complete idiot and a terrible writer.
Astroturf is artificial. This is real grass that may be receiving some “Weed and Feed” but the grass belongs to the lawn owners who rely on the “Turf Builder” to keep it healthy. Implying that the Town Hall meetings are being attended by plants (sorry, but I couldn’t resist the pun) is missing the point. The message isn’t contrived, nor is it unreal. People are concerned that Government is taking over their health care system. People are concerned that the horror stories from Public Health systems in Canada and the UK will be from Pittsburgh and Duluth and Spokane next year.
Now, this is “astroturfing”, Shaw:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/my-ofa-organizing-for-astroturfing-adventure/
What a puppet.
You can always tell which way the same PM writers go, by their first 2 lines.
I’ve only been to two ‘tea party’ events. The first one I went alone and knew nobody to go with. Spent the morning making my own signs to hold.
It was clear at both events, there were people just like me coming by themselves or with another family member. Finding their own way. Most small groups of people were neighbors or a group hastily put together to make sure those interested can get an event.
Most people are not part of any organization, but at this point are connecting to stay active and informed. They are sharing information.
Shaw knows the difference between the left’s BS and what is happening at town halls everywhere. He is being purposefully contrary because he is a typical elitist pr–k with nothing useful to contribute, just an opportunity to poke and jab. The article is crap.
steveg,
Who says I’m white?
Yehudit: Tampa.
In the past, I personally witnessed it, more than once, in DeKalb County, Georgia, at the behest of Ms. McKinney, so perhaps I just know it when I see it. But for those who haven’t had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of sweaty for-hire pseudo-laborers, lifting-belts straining over their pot bellies, the guys in Tampa were also wearing shirts identifying themselves.
“Committed moderate” is an oxymoron. (Same goes for “honest liberal”.) Moderate Republicans are those who are easily swayed by the superficial memes proferred by the other side, or by the lure of acceptance into the “in” crowd. Progressives are the cool kids. Gods, but will people EVER grow up?
Here’s a new meme. We shouldn’t shout at these townhall meetings. We should be respectful. BS! Show you’re angry. Make the Congresscritters fear for their jobs. It’s the ONLY thing they understand. There’s really no point in debating the details, because they don’t know the details. If it’s all nice and civil, they’ll go back to Never-Never-Land thinking they’d done their jobs and all went well. The people weren’t upset, so they must be behind this bill.
Not all meetings are angry ones. Those hosted by opponents of the bill go smoothly. These Congresscritters are having a great time, because people are turning out in droves supporting their resistance. They couldn’t ask for a better re-election campaign event. Their re-election is in the bag, and they know it.
Oppose this stinking bill! Do it loudly! Be angry!
I’ve been to a number of tea parties and protests and I know some of the organizers, including my registered Democrat wife. The GOP has had little to with the organization of the rallies. Some GOP operatives have tried to take credit for Tea Party events and they’ve been resented for doing so. Some GOP state senators and office seekers have been invited to speak at the rallies. Typically, they have been people like Tim Grendell, a fiscal hawk unpopular with his own party for not playing along with the pay-to-play style of politics, and Tom Ganley, a businessman who hates Washington with a passion. people going to these rallys and townhall meetings are going purely of their own accord. They have been influenced by the tea party movement itself, and by Glenn Beck’s 9-12 groups. These groups are all networked together and in constant communication via email, meetup web sites, social networks and tea party web-sites.
The GOP would love to rally their base as well as the amateurs, but they couldn’t organize their way out of a paper-bag.
If the GOP is astroturfing, the Dems are afro-sheening.
Anyone else see the bus being unloaded at a PA town hall meeting yesterday with ACORN and SEIU members?
In current Democrat parlance, conservative “astroturfing” means conservatives “getting organized”. The only thing they would accept as being a conservative “grassroots” effort would be something so fragmented and disorganized so as to be ineffectual.
We are a democracy. An individual can only accomplish anything in a democracy by banding together with others.
Next thing you know, the Democratic Party is going to move to strike freedom of assembly from the Bill of Rights.
Off topic, my family went to Mt. Vernon recently.
Our first stop was a 5-10 minute presentation at George & Martha Washington’s resting place on the grounds.
Before the guide went into her program, she asked a young man if he’d care to come to the front and lead us in the pledge.
There were folks of many nationalities, ages who’d had their hand over heart and recited with the young man.
It may have been a small moment, but a moment I’m proud to have witnessed and been part of.
Moreso by the many people, from all walks of life, political and social classes help in squashing this Government ‘reform’ bill. The key now is to not let up or fall for ‘Lucy setting the football ‘this time’ for Charlie Brown to kick it’
‘Ol George said, ‘The power under the Constitution will always be in the people.’