Obama’s Puzzling Approach to the Muslim World
President Barack Obama and I have one thing in common shared by few Americans: we were brought up by at least one parent — biological or step is irrelevant — who was born and raised in an Islamic milieu. Intimately aware of the inevitable effects of this, I must question Obama’s sincerity in his approach to the Islamic world.
While I was born and raised in the U.S., my parents were born and raised in Egypt. Even though they were Christians (Copts), it was only natural that they would adopt an “Islamicate” worldview, that is, a worldview based on Islamic culture and society, though obviously not Islamic dogma. As a result, while I share and appreciate the Western worldview, so too am I intimately acquainted with the Islamic world’s weltanschauung.
This is a worldview typified by cynicism and stoicism: a belief that humanity is intrinsically opportunistic, selfish, and warlike; that might not only makes right, but should; that those in the right do not apologize or appease, but rather assert; a survival-of-the-fittest mentality; and, above all, sheer contempt for perceived weakness and equivocation, or in Islamic parlance, emasculate behavior. Let’s call this a worldview based on “primordial politics.”
Anyone who has spent time in the Islamic world or held sincere conversations with people from there — Muslim or Christian makes no difference — will know this to be true. In short, the worldview of the average person from the Islamic world is the antithesis of the postmodern, “therapeutic” worldview of the liberal West, where “feelings,” “mutual respect,” “toleration,” and the ability to “express oneself” are paramount. This is only natural: people bred in harsh environments (e.g., the vast majority of the Islamic world) are not impressed by soft or sublime words.
It bears repeating that these qualities are not so much due to Islam per se; rather, they have an ancient lineage and have permeated almost every major civilization, including the West (e.g., the “neocons”). It is the postmodern, liberal worldview that is aberrant to human history, that is a dot in a long continuum of realpolitik. Living and dying in the height of our era — human lives are so short — it is easy to overlook the evanescence of this epistemology.
Islamic civilization, on the other hand, whose soul is trapped in the medieval era (thanks primarily to the concept of sunna), is by far the staunchest champion of primordial politics.
Mr. Ibraham can’t help himself. He has to insult the West by portraying it as either hopelessly naive or brutally realpolitik. No matter how brilliant the non-westerner is he always misses the particular western genius for combining an essential trust in both the capacities and decency of the many with a firm grasp of the reality of evil. To produce a civilization that has left all others in the dust.
Mr. Ibrahim, I appreciate what you are saying about the attitudes of the Muslim world and what they respect vs. Our Fearless Readers’ modus operandi. He is a misguided idiot who has been told what to believe. If anyone can think for themselves, your observations would be readily apparent. Instead, the point of Barry’s misguidedness is not to achieve any kind of reconciliation with the Muslim world but to set up the US for a long period of weakness while our enemies work to grow stronger and more pervasive.
The socialist agenda will see it’s real fruit after Barry has been kicked out of the White House. Hopefully, America will still have the means to defend itself if he hasn’t cut the military like BJ Clinton did so he could claim a “budget surplus.”
Thank you for the insights. Very much appreciated.
It is precisely because Obama knows better that he is culpable with respect to a doomed-to-failure posture toward Islamic nations.
I was never a fan of Obama’s. I did not vote for him. But I did presume that his heritage (and the implied insight that goes with it) might enable him to calm anti-American — and anti-Israeli — sentiment in the Middle East.
That small hope, however, was predicated on Obama possessing a modicum of sense. He should realize, more than most, that strength is what is respected in that part of the world — not weakness.
Earning none, Obama will accomplish nothing. Less than nothing, perhaps. An imprudent President Obama could make a bad situation even worse.
“Thus he of all American leaders should know that the sort of idealistic, “feel-good” talk of mutual respect (i.e., appeasement), such as he often gives, while moving to his constituency, will have little effect on the people of the Islamic world — except, perhaps, to breed more contempt for the American “paper tiger,” Osama’s appellation for the U.S. during Clinton’s era. So why does Obama do it? ”
I think he does it because at the heart of everything he believes and does, he hates America and all it stands for and wants to see it destroyed. He has already expressed disdain for the American Constitution; and his wife expressed her pride for America ONLY because he won the election (or did he? in FACT, he may have won the so-called popular vote, but that included only 19 of the 50 states).
His health care plan will give the government the RIGHT to require abortions, infanticide, euthanasia and more… This will help Obama to rid the United States of those elements which do not support him. His entire plan is not only reminiscent of of straight from Germany 1933 and the Enabling Acts. When will America wake up? I’m not counting on it, as too many seem to be in a stupor, following Obama as if he is the Messiah… and his hatred of Israel & the Jews (don’t be fooled by his self-hating Jewish advisors) together with his love and embracing of Islamism is only his icing on that cake… I think it will not be long before we see him bending on his prayer rug in the Oval Office…
I question whether or not Obama’s time in Indonesia gave Obama the type of insight that Raymond Ibrahim’s parentage gave him.
Indonesia is not Arabia, or Persia, or anywhere close to being what mideastern countries are. Ditto for Malaysia, Mindanao in the Philippines and other places as well.
As far as I can tell, it is the mideast and the mideast only that is wedded to the type of mindset/worldview Ibrahim describes.
If anybody else has a different opinion, please sound off.
Other than that, Ibrahim again offers valuable insights.
Are we supposed to be intimidated by the inferences of Muslim threat embedded throughout this article? Or should we look at things for what they are?
First, when given the opportunity to speak out on behalf of America using his first hand knowledge of the Muslim world Mr. Ibrahim fails. That matches the Muslim reactions to world events since 911. What purpose then, other than to make himself feel good, does this article serve?
Second, Obama using the trusting nature of the human race blew as much, or more smoke up the rear ends of Muslims as he did and has Americans.
While, by his own written words, and those of his wife, we can easily prove Obama’s hatred of America, white people and Jews; no one seems to know how the man really feels about the world of Islam and Muslims.
Would it surprise Muslims if they figured out that Obama actually hates them much more than he does anyone else?
Islam does not give Obama a single thing that he can rant and wave into the face of Americans and Muslims alike saying that he alone has the authority and power to force his will down upon the world, not just the typically uninformed, quasi-smart people of America.
Of course Obama knows better Mr. Ibrahim. He just doesn’t give a damn about you or the Muslim world either because neither are serving him. In short, you’ve been had.
As you can see from the recent actions and rhetoric coming from Iran his speech and subsequent actions did not play to well and seem to just make them more belligerent. I wish he would quit going overseas and giving speeches (apologies for America’s existence)everywhere. I don’t think he played real well with Russia either and weakened US while giving them more confidence to pretty much do what they want with no consequences.
Obama’s attitude and speeches are only encouraging Al Qaeda to attack us again.
The clock is ticking and Obama is too busy out looking for vacation homes on Martha’s Vineyard.
Might makes right; that is Obama’s core political principle,it’s obvious. His political principles aren’t American but a combination of Islamic-Marxist.
Yes. Because Obama chooses to TALK to the Mooslims instead of, oh — I don’t know — indiscriminately BOMBING them, that means he is weak and cowardly and I just don’t know WHAT else.
Does anyone really think most Palestinians think Israel is right because it has the might? Does anyone think that _any_ Arab Muslims think what is going on in Israel is “right” because Israel and America have the “might?”
Anyone?
Yet, this appears to be the central thesis of Mr. Ibrahim’s piece.
With fare like this, I doubt I’ll be sticking around.
Obama is not a Middle East expert, but I’ll bet money he is right on target in Israel. Stopping settlement expansion is the required first step.
Of all American leaders, he knows enough about Islam to understand that apologies and feel-good talk are destined to fail.
Are you sure ?
My impression is that within Barack Obama’s personal universe, the assumption is that anything to which he throws his attention (with his words & narcissistic arrogance) can be remedied & made whole, and that people (killer Islamists, whomever) will melt into gratitude and love through sheer dint of force of The One’s™ benevolent personality, quite the opposite of understanding what you call “…the Islamic world’s weltanschauung.”
Barack Obama throws a lot of paeans and obeisance to IZZ-lam (that’s how he aspires to pronounce it, “authentically”) and claims an understanding surpassing that of his predecessors due to growing up in Indonesia, two Muslim fathers etc., but I don’t get the impression that he understands much of the historical agenda of IZZ-lam at all.
In the week following September 11, Barack Obama bemoaned the lack of “empathy” on the part of the attackers (probably why he wants “empathy” from Sotomayor) and spoke of a responsibility of the US to heal the world’s children and thus prevent fewer Mohammed Attas from coming to the fore…not the words of a man who understands much of anything about the contemporary agenda of Radical IZZ-lam.
‘knock knock’ Is this thing on? Hello? Why doesn’t anyone else see that what Obama does and says is all PLANNED! He is an anti-democracy, anti-western, anti-American traitor. He IS the “Manchurian Candidate”. We were told pre-election that McCain was the one we should fear for all his years in the Communist prison, but it should be obvious by now that this was carefully planned-what better way to distract the unobservant from one’s own evil intent by accusing someone else of that same ill-intent? He was indoctrinated in all those years in Indonesia, and his skills were honed in the mafioso climate of Chicago politics. The bombings in the Indonesian hotel today, after several years of “peace” since the horrible start to this decade, should prove that great evil has been taught there and can be unleashed without warning. Everything he has said and done has undermined our country’s standing in the world, destroyed our financial institutions, caused division among our citizens, and created a climate of fear.
And just what is the modus operandi (pardon for any mispellings) of Jihad?
I submit that Obama, born of a Muslim father from the predominantly Muslim Luo tribe of Kenya, having been raised in an Indonesian Muslim household and been educated as a Muslim in some of his formative grade school years, rather then having adding breadth and insight to an essentially American viewpoint, instead formed an essentially foreign, Muslim-oriented viewpoint concerning America and Americans.
Thus, Obama’s often un-educated statements—“57 states” anyone?–strange ideas and verbal formulations—“I won”–and his unfamiliarity with and disdain for American values and the Constitution and his disdain, too, for the majority of our population—whites–“white greed rules a world in need”–those “bitter” people in flyover country that “cling” to their guns and their bibles, and even the white grandmother who raised him, who he called a “typical white person” and a racist.
The continuing controversy about Obama’s origins, his failure to produce his original birth certificate, and questions as to whether or not he is a “natural born citizen” illustrates just why the Founding Fathers put the “natural born citizen” qualification in the Constitution. They put this requirement in to prevent the election of a President who had insufficient experience with, love for and allegiance to America and her history, traditions, form of government and democracy, a President whose first and foremost allegiance might not be to America, but to some other country or culture of his birth or upbringing. It seems to me that this is exactly the situation we are presently living through.
As far as I can tell, it is the mideast and the mideast only that is wedded to the type of mindset/worldview Ibrahim describes.
In Indonesia & Malaysia, radical Islam has definitely inserted its agenda as well as the Philippines, see especially the southern portion Mindanao (which you mention) which radicals claim in much the same sense that bin laden & friends claim Mesopotamia, as an historical stronghold of Islam.
So while the archaic “thinking” may most prevail in the middle east, it is definitely working hard to spread itself throughout the far east as well, not to mention North America, Europe, Australia et al. and etc.
Islamists pretend to talk the talk of the politically correct “west” (it’s good to deceive the infidel) while continuing to conduct stealth jihad anywhere & everywhere throughout the world.
#10 Deep Brain:
“Yes. Because Obama chooses to TALK to the Mooslims instead of, oh — I don’t know — indiscriminately BOMBING them, that means he is weak and cowardly and I just don’t know WHAT else.”
Oh, I’m pretty sure Obama continues to indiscriminantely Muslims. Well, okay, he doesn’t do it PERSONALLY. But he (as opposed to, say, anyone else) could stop it if he wanted to.
#11 Josh Narins –
“Does anyone really think most Palestinians think Israel is right because it has the might? Does anyone think that _any_ Arab Muslims think what is going on in Israel is “right” because Israel and America have the “might?””
Might does make right. Israel’s enemies don’t think of them as “right” but they do respect them for their might and tread appropriately. They pick at the fringes, nipping away with their children martyr bombers and other recruited fanatics. All the while they try to build their own street cred with the UN and anti-US communities so that Israel will be restrained.
But it is all a farce of a business. The powers that be, whether, Arafat or Hizzzbollah or Hammmmas, etc. have to much money to make to settle for peace. So in the end, it isn’t about respect or might makes right, it is about money and power. And all the while Iran sits back, develops their nukes and laughs at the game as it plays out.
Is there a mathematician who would calculate the chances of a United States President at this time in our history having the name of Barack Hussein Obama. Oh and partially of African-American descent.
Sometimes in flights of fancy, I feel as if strings are being pulled.
And contrary to what your write, the link explaining sunna, it seems, is all about Islam. I often think it is the art of going backward.
Josh Narins, “Stopping settlement expansion is the first step” to what? Israel’s annihilation? Does anyone really think Arab Muslims want a two state solution? Does anyone really think that any Israeli concessions, short of disbanding, will appease Arab Muslims?
Ibrahim’s point was not that “might makes right”. His point was that might brings about fear and respect in the Arab (Islamic) world. Appeasement brings about contempt. Not sure about you Josh, but I want the Arab (Islamic) world to fear us. I want them to be scared as hell of us.
Deep Brain Diarist: Yes, all of Obama’s sweet talking, deep bowing and ass kissing is certainly working well for him isn’t it? I guess today’s bombings of two American hotels in Indonesia is just some leftover hate for Bush right?
Typical liberal “it’ll work out if we ignore it and smile” BS.
Another interesting take, on just what Obama might believe and what his world view might be, is explored in a recent article by an African-American with recent African tribal roots, who argues that Obama is acting out of the belief system of an “African Colonial” see http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/obama_the_african_colonial.html
Obama may think he knows Islam but his opinions were formed as a child and probably have not matured. He may think he learned everything he needs to know by kindergarten. Of course he continued to hang around malcontents well into adulthood so maybe his views are not just childish but warped.
Re #18 Lynn: I too question the timing of BHO as President now of all times in history. It seems unreal somehow. Nightmarish almost. I do think it’s a tragedy though that our first Black President is turning out to be such a disaster. It would have made a nice chapter in history if he would have really be a transformational leader instead of one who’s dismantling the Constitution and burdening future generations with such a huge debt.
The hard-liner Islamists hate Obama more than they hate The Great Satan Infidels because he turned from his Muslim religion and became an apostate in the eyes of other Muslims.
What does this mean for the USA?
It ain’t good.
Stopping settlement expansion is the required first step.
They say that the definition of madness is trying one hundred times the same thing, ever getting identical result and still keep trying.
For sixty years we have been pressuring Israel all while feeding the Palestinians who have used their freedom of the need to work for making war and terrorism full time. For sixty years we have llowed Arab governements keep the Palestinins in camps and denying them the right to acquire the nationality in order to keep them as weapons against Israel.
So let’s try a novel approach: Every missile, every taerrorist attempt will be sanctionned with one square mile less of Palestinian territory and one million dolars fine. Of course in case the missile hits something, the terrorist attack succeeds they will have to pay more/lose morte territory. Every treaty they signed and not respected would carry similar fines. Lst but not least cut any international aid and force them to rely on their work and Arab solidarity for living. This way both Palestinians and Arab governements would have an incentive for making peace with Israel not nto mention that ypour average Palestin would be far roo busy for dreaming about killing Jews The present sitiuation is that they are making war for free while we fund for it through the UN (while we are at it dissolve the UN organization for aiding the Palestinina refugees).
The present situation is that people are starving in Darfur while billions opf dollars are being squandered on the Palestinians.
Sorry #21 but I am not convinced that Obama would be much different if he came from his roots of African “perfection” or he came from the evil results of the evil European imperialists and their evil intent on ruining the lives of peoples all over the world who before them lived in perfect harmony.
Seems to me he enjoys being on the top of the heap whether it’s a country or it’s a tribe. You can’t get there without holding the hands of corruption at one point or another. It’s the human condition.
I too have wondered which part of Obama is Osama? It is true that in his autobiography he devotes too much time on his absent father and journeys to explore what kind of man he was. His father entertained visions of developing Kenya, he was a staunch nationalist who could not tolerate the tribalism and corruption that came in the way of Kenya’s development. His step-father was an Indonesian Muslim but his philosophy of survival by taking care of oneself rather than bothering about the whole world is certainly non-Islamic!
Going by Obama’s autobiography, I can say that the Blacks of the USA have been profoundly influenced by the individualism and the spirit of freedom to such an extent that even though they want to assert their collective identity this assertion does not go so far as to uphold the collective interests at the expense of individuals’ interests. Hence, Obama is not faking when he talks of mutual respect, decency, feelings, and so on. Obama is clear that mere sentiments do not amount to love and his love does not lie in herd mentality but in caring for others just as one cares for oneself and one’s kin.
Obama is not an Islamist but a socialist. My contention is that his socialism is flawed not his religion. On the other hand, what we are witnessing these days is that capitalism is itself realising the virtues of ‘inclusion’. To earn profits you have to reach out to the millions by offering them services like email facilities free so that your browser becomes a hot property for advertisers–as Google Inc has shown. Tata’s Nano car is yet another such example of reaching out to the masses rather than classes to make more profits.
And inclusion implies that might is not right. The USA is a mighty power but how wrong it was in both Vietnam and in Iraq. Yes, appeasement is bad, but to talk softly is not appease! There is a delicate job that needs to be done to save the world. Those suffering totalitarian and Islamic tyrannies can gain strength only and fight their dictators and Ayatollahs only if their stereotypes of the West are shown up to be hollow so that they cannot raise the spectre of Islam (or substitute for this, any other primordial tradition) is in danger to force their rule on the innocent people in the name of a collective ideology.
The winner nowadays would not be the strongest or the mightiest. She would have endurance, courage, patience to batter down injustice and tyranny through persuasion. See even China is now facing problems with its ethnic minorities.
25. Panini,
So, you think the USA should be a third world crap-hole country? Should we all live in mud-huts and dance around a fire in grass-skirts with our sock-tittays hangin’ out for the world to see?
Good grief!
Our country is GREAT because of its STRENGTH which 0bama and his cronies want to WEAKEN on bended knee.
You bleeding hearts make me want to puke. Go live in a third world country and get back to me.
My daughter’s best friend from childhood is Guatemalan and she visits her grandma in Guatemala once every two years or so and regales my daughter of the horrors there including the lack of sanitation.
I truly wish every dumb-ass, clueless ‘hippy-type’ a-hole had to live in a 3rd world country for a year and LIVE what that preach.
IDIOTS.
#21 Obama can invent anything he wants about his ‘absent’ father which usually suits someone who tends to throw the ‘real’ people in his life under the bus.
Many children dream they were tragically separated from their ‘real’ parents who were of noble blood and bearing and being raised by the imperfect humans they are stuck with. Usually age brings wisdom and they begin to see their own imperfections and realize that by throwing people under the bus they too could very easily be pushed by someone else of the same mind.
Now, tell me again which of the DC Mosques Obama and his family attend?
Bibi Netanyahu said that the way to stop the Islamists is to use enough force to make them acknowlege to themselves that they can not win a war with us. That will not be ‘peace’, but will be the absence of war, and that’s close enough.
11. Josh Narins wrote:
Does anyone really think most Palestinians think Israel is right because it has the might? Does anyone think that _any_ Arab Muslims think what is going on in Israel is “right” because Israel and America have the “might?”
Peter writes: As Mr Ibrahim wrote, it is the perception, not the reality, that effects middle-eastern attitudes. The reality may be that Israel has kicked the butt of every Islamic country that ever tried to attack it, but as long as the imams and Islamic politicians continue to CALL Israel or the US weak and inneffectual, that is the reality to the population.
Unfortunately, The Won’s overseas speeches have done nothing to counter this idea, and have only made it worse.
I will side with Dave at least in part. The most virulent strains of Islam have usually come out of Arabia (Wahabbism for example) though local variants pop up from time to time in other regions. I’d probably have to do more research than I have time for to determine how often these indigenous movements are actually the result of teachings exported from Arabia.
T.E. Lawrence certainly had admiration for the Arab Bedouin even though he recognized them as a harsh people from a desolate region. He also remarks that flare ups under leaders like the Mahdi have been frequent throughout Islamic history, but they usually burn themselves out rather quickly.
My personal experiences in Egypt, Turkey, Kashmir (pre-1988), and Malaysia inform me that the further one travels from the Islamic center, the more relaxed become its adherents. The Taliban seem to be the exception, but it’s my understanding that the movement had its genesis in refugee camps where Saudi money (Wahabbism again) had established madrases specifically for the purpose of spreading a fundamentalist version of the faith.
I’m not saying that Mr. Ibrahim is wrong in his views; he is certainly better informed by experience than I am. Yet there is no denying that some part of the problem can be attributed to the Saudi effort to export fundamentalist troublemakers. The complexity of the problem invites debate, but on one fact we can probably all agree. Mr. Obama’s weak posture is precisely the wrong strategy.
Not only do the two worldviews have different pushbuttons, they have different definitions of “peace”. This makes more sense if you view 0bama’s actions in pursuit of Islamic “peace”. I think Raymond understands exactly what I mean by that, but for the rest, he’s not trying to get everyone to stop fighting with something resembling the status quo, but to stop fighting because there’s nothing left to fight over. That’s the Islamic concept of “peace”; when they’ve completely won.
Islamic apologists claim that “Islam” means “peace”. Critics say that it means “submission”. In reality, it means both; the idea being that peace can only happen through submission.
There’s no mystery in what 0bama’s trying to do. None whatsoever.
“Fail” depends on what your goals are. He might fail according to your goals, or even his promises but that doesn’t mean he is failing according to his goals, which remain a mystery to the rest of America.
“The USA is a mighty power but how wrong it was in both Vietnam and in Iraq.”
Oh, dear.
dear leader see’s islam from an insider’s viewpoint, and would be happy if the entire world would hear and heed what he consider’s the “sweetest sound”, that of an arabic call to prayer five times a day. he does not live in the real world.
“muslim world gets stronger.”
What? The Muslim world is a basket case from Morocco to Mindinuo. Muslim poulations are very unproductive and lazy.
Look at Egypt. In Pagan times it built amazing wonders. Under the Romans it feed the Empire and today it can’t feed it’s self. In 200 BC an Egyptian calculated the circumfrance of the world. What has Egypt done after 12 centuries of Islam? Nothing.
When the French took Egypt in 1798 they found the Rosettia stone and translated the hyrogliphcs. The Muslims could not have cared less. They had no curiosity at all.
Since Napolean Muslim armies have consistanly faild against western armies. Attacking a hotel is a great victory for Muslim fanatics.
the worldview of the average person from the Islamic world is the antithesis of the postmodern, “therapeutic” worldview of the liberal West, where “feelings,” “mutual respect,” “toleration,” and the ability to “express oneself” are paramount.>>
————–
I disagree with this statement. It is the Conservative West where “feelings,” “mutual respect,” “toleration,” and the ability to “express oneself” are paramount.
The Liberal West is totalitarian, racist, tryrannical, criminal and at total antithesis with human nature
Nice try, but Mugabe Obama WAS a Muslim for many years. It is just another piece of information that he has hidden, one of many that, had we known, we would not have voted for him. He is a “sleeper.”
On all his applications for school admission and financial aid, he (or his parent/guardian) wrote “Muslim.” Where we thought we were getting hope and change; all we got was another dishonest Chicago race pimp thug.
Again, a lot of bitching and complaining by the usual suspects, but no suggestions. Obviously, Bushie’s “Pax Americana” didn’t work. What do YOU cats want Obama to do — I mean, OTHER than resign, die, show his birth certificate, admit he’s a Mooooooooslim? What’s YOUR plan?
Other than just whining, I mean…
Deep Brain,
I have a number of suggestions. Spread the idea of free markets, representative government, the rule of law, and peace through strength. I think I could get a few head nods from the Japanese, South Koreans, Germans, and maybe even the Iraqis at this point.
#5 and #33: Mr. Ibrahim is really not talking about an “Islamic” worldview, but rather, an “old world” or better yet, “third world” view, which would flourish in Indonesia perhaps even more than more “Muslim” countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran who are richer. As Ibrahim himself described it, the worldview he is talking about is not a product of Islam, though Islam champions it.
There is nothing new about the current “liberal, post-modern view”. It has happened time and time again to all powerful empires from Babylon to Rome. The winner gets complacent, decides that violence is wrong, becomes weak and is invaded and conquered by barbarians from the north.
It just seems new because every time a society descends to such inanity and weakness, they disappear within a generation. This is too small of a blip to show up in the history books unless you study carefully.
So they always think they are onto something new, when in fact it is the inevitable result of complacency and is in fact nothing other than societal suicide.
Best regards,
Gail S
http://backyardfence.wordpress.com
President Obama’s ignorance of history, including that of Mohammedans, is enormous. In his Cairo speech, he credited Mohammedans with the invention of the magnetic compass (actually invented by the Chinese), the printing press (invented by both the Chinese and the German Gutenberg), the pen (so ancient no one knows who invented it), the university (first founded in Italy). He also said that Muslims were involved with the founding of the United States and had fought on the American side in all wars of the United States, totally false – either he is ignorant or a liar, probably both.
(No, Obama, Abraham Lincoln was not a Mohammedan nor were any of the soldiers.)
Obama also does not understand a fundamental difference between Mohammedanism and the foundation if the United States: according to Mohammedanism, we should follow the way of God, revealed by (“Islam”), because we are his slaves. The Declaration of Independence, in directf-evident to rff contradiction, says that “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed y their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” These truths are self-evident to reason – (see Thomas Hobbes and John Locke.)
Of all American leaders, he knows enough about Islam to understand that apologies and feel-good talk are destined to fail.
He wants them to fail because he is a stealth Muslim intent on turning the U.S. – even Kansas! – into the New Caliphate. Duh. Don’t you read this website?
Ok, I am going to beat another dead horse that I started last week. Obama believes in the Mideast Narrative expounded which can be summarized as the Jews are the cause of all our Mideast troubles. We have to put pressure on Israel to give the Palestinians what they want. But that is not the reality of the Mideast. The real story is that Mideast nations that seek regional hegemony use the Israeli-Arab conflict over the Palestinian Mandate territories to mask their agendas. Movement towards peace has only come when a nation has lost it desire or ability to gain hegemony. Hence the death of Nassir leads to Camp David and the defeat of Iraq in Desert Storm leads to Oslo. The second infitada while funded in part by Iraq was driven by Iran’s breakout in its pursuit of regional hegemony. I guarantee you that once this illegitimate government in Iran falls there will be once again progress toward a settlement of the Israeli-Arab conflict.
The role of Obama’s Muslim upbringing was to instill him with an anti-Semitic/pro Muslim outlook which was reinforced by twenty years of Jeremiah Wright’s ravings. His acceptance of the false narrative is also built upon Marxism and the new neo-Fascist rival that came after the fall of the Soviet Union.
As #46 Blarckleblart knows turning the United States over to a Muslim Caliphate would be a much more attractive alternative for the Lefties than leaving it as it is. To them it’s just another alternative lifestyle no better no worse than any other, and the fact of the matter is their BORED. Their really more into anti-establishment and not really concerned with what it’s replaced with.
As #46 Blarckleblart knows turning the United States over to a Muslim Caliphate would be a much more attractive alternative for the Lefties than leaving it as it is.
That’s right. We lefties hate religion except for Islam, which we love almost as much as we love abortions.
30. Fafnir:
“Now, tell me again which of the DC Mosques Obama and his family attend?”
You are apparently not familiar with the difference between “The House of Islam” and “The House of War”; or Jihad by deception (Surah 66:2 and Surah 16:106), or you would understand that your question is irrelevant, so there’s no reason to try to answer it.
Never said lefties loved Islam blarty just it means nothing to them except an alternative to the establishment. Never said lefties loved abortion, just that they’re indifferent to it. Which means lefties are not necessarily pro Islam or pro abortion, they are anti, that is against what is established not concerned with what it is replaced with, just that it is replaced.
An illustration of this phenomena would be witnessing a protest march or a protest rally where all the anti’s get together not really concerned with what those around them think or believe, but there is more importantly a togetherness in the anti-anything.
Blarty:
You try to jest but let’s look at some of the positions Progressives value the most:
Abortion
The Emancipation of Women
Homosexual normality
Now lets exam how this works out in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Which side holds your view of Abortion rights — Israel
Which side holds your view of the Emancipation of Women — Israel
Which side holds your view on Homosexual normality — Israel
Which side do Progressives support — The Palestinians
The Palestinians are Muslims. So it does look like Progressives seem to give Islam a superior place over the Judeo-Christian tradition in that they support a group of people who hold antithetical views on key issues based upon their religion.
45: jw
He also said that Muslims were involved with the founding of the United States and had fought on the American side in all wars of the United States, totally false – either he is ignorant or a liar, probably both.
~~~
He’s very confused. Thomas Jefferson did indeed fight with muslims – the BARBARY Wars were the US *against* Muslim pirates.
Which side do Progressives support — The Palestinians
Some do, some don’t. There isn’t a single “progressive” opinion about Israel. I challenge you to show that the progressive who oppose Israel do so because they hate Jews or love Muslims. There are other possible reasons to take sides.
MUST READ at Family Security Matters today,,
Obama’s REAL African Roots revealed,,
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3764/pub_detail.asp
47, yes that’s a dead horse. The reason why is that in the minds of the pasty white multiculturalists, Jews are white, and thus are required to conform to white people’s rules. Those are different from brown people’s rules.
Ironically, Arabs see themselves as white (and look down their noses at “abd”, which means alternatively “black” and “slave”), but are willing to play brown if it gets them a more favorable set of rules.
While I think that 0bama’s intelligence and knowledge are generally way overstated, I do think he knows this intimately.
41. Deep Brain Diarist wrote:
What do YOU cats want Obama to do — I mean, OTHER than resign, die, show his birth certificate, admit he’s a Mooooooooslim? What’s YOUR plan?
Peter writes:Well, how about just for starters;
Standing up for the USA instead of tearing it down in front of every other foreign nation?
Building up the economy instead of tearing it apart and bankrupting us?
Letting the average privately-owned business function instead of taxing it into oblivion?
Abiding by the US Constitution instead of tearing it into little pieces and recreating it in the progressive-liberal ‘living constitution’ Government controls all aspects of everyones lives form he is trying to accomplish?
Letting the US Military and Intelligence services protect this nation like it’s their job to do instead of cutting off their financing and creating the paranoia of prosecution just for doing what this country asked them to do?
That’s just for starters.
According to this: http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=13227
The American Indians were Muslim. So they were the enemy in the Indian wars (yes, I realize that this is BS).
I’m trying to remember which Islamic army fought on the side of the allies in WWI and WWII. Certainly not the Ottomans, or Al-Husseini’s Nazi Muslim brigade. Can somebody help me out?
#44: While you are right that strong nations/empires eventually become debauched, corrupt and effete, I do believe that the “liberal, post-modern worldview,” is, as Ibrahim points out, unique to our times. No matter how weak a people became throughout history, the “therapeutic” worldview of the liberal West, where “feelings,” “mutual respect,” “toleration,” and the ability to “express oneself” are paramount (to quote Ibrahim) is new to the human species.
Deep Brain Diarist has a serious brain fart and it ain’t deep, just smell really bad.
Blarty:
Progressives split on the Palestinian question? Nonsense. Ever bother reading the Guardian, the New York Times, the BBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, not to mention such mainline online sources like the Huffington Post or the Daily Kos? These outlets are filled with pro-Palestinian/anti-Semitic reporting. Under what other circumstances would a Progressive support such reactionary social views?
Strawman,
There were Muslims fighting for the allies in both world wars. T.E. Lawrence recruited a Bedouin army from Arabia to harass the Turkish left flank in Palestine. In addition, the British army under Sir Edmund Allenby contained both Egyptian and Indian Muslims.
During the Second World War the British 8th Army fighting first in North Africa, and later in Italy, mustered two Indian divisions with numerous Muslims.
On the other hand the Nazis fielded a number of SS divisions from Muslim areas of Europe and elsewhere. At least one Muslim division was recruited from Bosnia, and at least one Caucasian (Chechen) was recruited to fight on the Russian front.
True to form our liberal counterparts here offer no suggestions, no explanations, no anything, just lots of their usual BS. Can anyone expect Obama, the head liberal to be any different?
Here’s just a sampling of their genius…”We lefties hate religion except for Islam, which we love almost as much as we love abortions.”
Anyone see anything of value there? Anything remotely close to an intelligent conversation?
Me either. Must be nice to be liberal. No worries, just a vacuum between your ears.
Thank you, Mr. Ibrahim. As we learn more about other perspectives, we could in principle learn more about ours, once a point of comparison was gained is the learning exercise. I see many people in the ME who would not for a minute give up their cars, cell phones, satellite TV, air travel and access to westerm medecine, and at the same time give large sums of money to help destroy the civilization where these conveniences come from.
If we gratuitously give the benefit of the doubt to such duplicitous behavior, we cannot appreciate the blessings of the western culture, and become unable (and unwilling) to defend it. There are not so many doubts on the other side: Allahu Akbar! Period! Can’t we call a cat a cat and recognize plunder and murder when we see them?
Did we really need to elect a president who excuses these moral transgressions? The question of whether he is sincere or not is not as urgent as the question of whether he is dangerous or not to the welfare of our children and grand-children.
Bury them in debt, and prepare them to become slaves of Islam! Here is how multicultural cooperation works: Islam provides murder and plunder, and the west provides the blunders, mission accomplished!
TO: Raymond Ibrahim
RE: Are You REALLY This ‘Densa’?
Sakes!
There ought to be some form of ‘qualification’ system for being a ‘contributor’ to PJM. You’d obviously ‘fail’ such a test.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Rebuke a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. -- Proverbs, written by some Jewish guy]
P.S. And to thimk that a goy like me should have to point such out to a guy named “Ibrahim”.
What on God’s green Earth are we coming to?
Oooops….
….signs of the End Times???!??!?!!?
Chucky, meebee you should oughta read the whole thang first? Jus a suggeschun.
We have to realise that this world is one now. If there are no toilets in Guatemala it is as much an American problem as it is theirs! We are as good as our brothers and sisters across our borders. You can’t pretend that what happens in Guatemala no longer affects you! It does. If Guatemala loses its green cover we all will pay for the resulting global warming. Americans cannot hope to swig beer in the comfort of their drawing rooms by shutting out the world. So, we need to stop thinking in terms of them and us; it is good for us. That is what Obama says. Focus instead on his economics. That is all wrong. Our freedom is being undermined by the corporations. Corporations are stifling freedom of the market and competition! Rein in corporations; they should be no powerful than individuals!
These are difficult times–we have no proven formula for success. All that we now know is that success does not come from a we versus they mentality.
Mr. Ibrahim, this is so on-the-mark it’s almost painful. As you pointed out, for eons this mindset was the way of the world, the entire world. This is still all too common in many parts of the world even in the 21st century. We even see this in Western Polititics.
One American Party that I’ll not name, is always on the attack, using every trick they can come up with. Appeasement does not work with them, it only garners ridicule. Winning results in claims of cheating, though there is strong evidence of them doing so. Losing results in gloating. Negotioations must always end in their favor, preferably on every point. This Party only recognizes complete domination. It’s very much the same as in the days of old, or in the Middle East. The only difference is in the level of physical violence.
JFM you’re right !
there is a new financement that infiltrates our economies : Halal, not only for food and meat supplies now, finance businesses too, and it appears that this group invests in our “failing” enterprises due to the money crisis.
It is said that a percentage of their financial benefits goes directly into a palestinian cause association
Taanstaffal #15 and Paules #33: Thanks for the feedback guys.
I have known a few Filipino Moros. They were
on an educational level and prosperity level
equal to that of (for example) the 9-11 hijackers. And were as appalled by that act
as was I.
It is (some of) the more primitive Moros that
indulge in what is basically their traditional
raiding and banditry and try to justify it on
theological grounds or claim “oppressed minority” status. These are more of a concern now than they were before because they all have
a “Moriarity” or three doing their thinking for them, providing seed money etc. However, every “Moriarity” that I have learned about has been an imported towelhead, not indigenous to Mindanao, etc.
I get the impression (albeit unsubtantiated) that the same thing is what happens in Indonesia
and Malaysia. Ditto for some incidents in Southern Thailand.
So I do think that Ibrahim is off the mark concerning Obamas capabilities. His actual background is one that lends him most readily to flights of fantasy.
In contrast, the Man From Midland had a background that enabled him to grasp the fundamental nature of the threat and proceed in the right general direction come hell or high water.
@ Panini,
Wow! I don’t often get the opportunity to fisk a comment this naive. We have to realise (sic) this world is one now. Actually James Madison had it rather right two-hundred years ago in Federalist Paper Number 10. The world is divided by faction.
If there are no toilets in Guatemala it is as much an American problem as it is theirs. Technically correct. Guatemala is part of North America the last time I checked. The problem with Guatemalan toilets in my experience is that they don’t properly flush. Thus do you get a rather nasty trash bin full of soiled paper next to the bog.
We are as good as our brothers and sisters across the borders. Nice sentiment, but totally wrong. Our neighbors to the south haven’t figured out how to flush the bog much less put a man on the moon.
If Guatemala loses its green cover we will all pay for the resulting global warming. Quite right. We’re all going to pay big time if cap and trade is signed into law, but it has nothing to do with global warming.
Americans cannot hope to swig beer in the comfort of their drawing rooms by shutting out the world. Right again, but for the wrong reasons. Beer is properly guzzled, chugged, or quaffed.
So we need to stop thinking in terms of them and us. it is good for us. That is what Obama says. I’m impressed by your use of a semi-colon, but Obama says only what is necessary to advance his political agenda.
Our freedom is being undermined by corporations. Competition is the engine of economic choice. Always has been. Your mileage may vary, but it’s a basic fact of economics.
They should be no more powerful than individuals. A corporation is a collective, something I thought the left respects. Investment is voluntary. What could be free than that?
We have no proven formula for success. Actually, we do. Limited government, the rule of law, and personal liberty have proved a rather potent formula over time.
All we know is that success does not come from a we versus they (sic) mentality. Competition has done more to advance the human condition than any other single force in history.
All this typing has put me in the mood for a whiskey before bed. Only the best, of course. Freely produced, voluntarily purchased, and sipped at my leisure. Gawd, it doesn’t get any better.
Paules (OUT)
Response to Josh Narins, comment 11 (“Does anyone really think most Palestinians think Israel is right because it has the might?”):
No, probably no one believes that, “Palestinian” or not. Jews, as the descendants of pigs and apes (sometimes dogs are tossed in for bad measure), are not truly human. No matter how much power they have, all their activities will be unclean, and their accomplishments illegitimate. They literally do not qualify for consideration as participants in humanity’s endeavors; they are to be segregated, repressed, taxed more heavily than anyone else, and reviled.
The Muslim teaching, in other words, rules Jews out from the first.
I wonder why you ignored that obvious truth. Maybe to try to undermine a bit of rock-solid commentary? If so, what’s your reason for objecting to it? Why is it offensive to you? Even error-laden comment can still be inoffensive….
(BTW, “Palestinian” in quotes because Israelis are Palestinians, too. We should refer to Israel’s neighbors who are its blood enemies as “West Bank Arabs” or “Gaza Arabs.” Palestine is home to Christians, Jews and Arabs.)
#41 dbdbdbdbdbd …
well, a couple of recent examples of action that Our Fearless Reader could have taken would have been to:
1. support FREEDOM for Iranians, and real, free elections
2. support constitutional action by Honduras to kick out an attempted dictatorship
But of course, ol Barry can’t do that because Lord knows one of these days he will be facing the very same plight and doesn’t want to find himself on the contradictory side, as if that ever meant anything to him.
Mohammedans of which Obambi is definitely one realised long long ago that the PC MC left wing Islamophile moonbat culture that prevails in Western countries along with an MSM which accepted being anti Bush as the sole qualification to being worshiped as the Messiah. In addition both moonbats and THEIR MSM are gullible enough to accept the pretense that there is a Military wing and a Political wing of Islamic Jihad and they are both separate entities with completely different aims. In fact gullible is not a strong enough word for the moonbat ‘libtards’ and MSM ‘self deceiving cretins’ is closer to the point. In fact anyone who thinks Islam is or could ever be a benign Western friendly CULT is a ‘self deceiving cretin’. Its all in the book guys its all in the book just like it was in Meine Kampf.
Panini keep on drinking the ‘Koolaid’ we can see its already working and soon all will be peace and light under benevolent DICTATOR Obambi you just know it makes sense dont you moonbat.
Mohammedans of which Obambi is definitely one realised long long ago that the PC MC left wing Islamophile moonbat culture that prevails in Western countries along with an MSM which accepted being anti Bush as the sole qualification to being worshiped as the Messiah is a pushover. In addition both moonbats and THEIR MSM are gullible enough to accept the pretense that there is a Military wing and a Political wing of Islamic Jihad and they are both separate entities with completely different aims. In fact gullible is not a strong enough word for the moonbat ‘libtards’ and MSM ‘self deceiving cretins’ is closer to the point. In fact anyone who thinks Islam is or could ever be a benign Western friendly CULT is a ‘self deceiving cretin’. Its all in the book guys its all in the book just like it was in Meine Kampf.
Paules #72: I found it necessary to stop consuming ethanol almost three decades ago.
So you will have to toast yourself for that #72:
On my behalf, would you make it a double? I’ll be with you in spirit although not in spirits.
I think the article gives Obama too much credit. I suspect he has some rosy view of Islam that hasn’t been abrogated by reality.
63 ATP
When the tenor of the conversation is “Obama is a stealth Muslim bent on destroying Israel and the U.S.”, then it isn’t really fertile soil for intelligent comment, is it?
Bohemond:
“The USA is a mighty power but how wrong it was in both Vietnam and in Iraq.”
Oh, dear.
Bohemond, notice there was no evidence to support that absurd statement. That gives it the same value as whatever processed roughage produced it.
“We have to realise that this world is one now.”
Horse manure! This World has always been one. There is a theory that the Moon was once Part of the Earth, but very little evidence to support that theory. Only the fact that there is a hole in the earth that is just the right size to hold the moon. Of course, the theory of plate tectonics sort of argues against that, since that hole would have long since filled in, but it’s also possible that both theories are wrong. AFAIK, orbital mechanics and the theory of gravity that supports them argue against the moon is part of the earth theory also.
If you are talking politics, the world isn’t one now, never will be and is no closer to being one then it was 5,000 years ago. The players have changed and the game has gotten bigger, but the music still plays.
The World hasn’t gotten any smaller either, which is another urban legend. What HAS happened is communication times have decreased. That doesn’t make the world ‘one’ or any smaller or even a monopolitical system.
I think we will eventually end up as a monopolitical system, but that won’t happen for another few centuries. And I’m fudging the meaning of politics a bit when I say that.
Nationalism was the replacement for tribalism, of which Feudalism was the most prominent example. One tribe was stronger then the others, which allowed that tribe to declare their leader “King” and say he was ‘chosen’ to rule over the other tribes. Gather enough tribes sharing a language and culture in the same basic geographical area and add a common law, some standardization and presto chango, you had a Nation/State.
Nationalism is better then tribalism, but as communication time decreased, Nationalism created more problems then it solved.
Right now Humans are working on a replacement political system. America and Japan are working toward the Corporate State. Europe is working toward a Uberbureacracy. Although the German Courts put a LARGE stake thru that heart a few days ago. China is trying to turn back the clock with their benign Despotism theory. That will end the first morning the despot wakes up with a hangover and doesn’t feel so benign.
I think the Corporate State will win. That won’t make the world one, politically, but it will change the conflict over resources from that of mass armies and nuclear weapons to assassinations and leveraged buy-outs. Much more civilized then an Armored Division. More cost effective too.
The Corporate State, with ‘employees’ that are voters/shareholders would be the highest form of a capitalist/democracy. The Efficiency and creativity it would bring to the game will overwhelm all other forms of government. Not sure how stable it will be or what will replace it, but it WILL be better at taking care of it’s citizens/employees/voters then any other political types.
If it doesn’t there will be a new chairman of the board, CEO, CFO, whatever.
Blarty:
Gosh, don’t let a couple of comments scare you off! The idiocy of others can’t diminish your brilliance.
Or…?
Arab Muslims are bullies.
Gosh, don’t let a couple of comments scare you off! The idiocy of others can’t diminish your brilliance.
When y’all’s comments are idiotic enough I’m afraid they might be able to, through some kind of idiocy osmosis.
Is 1.3 million dead Iraqis pro-life?
86. dssf wrote:
Is 1.3 million dead Iraqis pro-life?
Peter writes: I don’t know. Why don’t you go ask Saddam?