Obama’s Friends ‘Out’ the Death Panels
The president and his media enablers are outraged, just outraged, that anyone would suggest the prospect of, let alone come up with a name for, government panels designed to ration care for the elderly — and as the president said, “pull the plug on grandma.” Nothing lower, the left punditocracy fumed, than coming up with the “death panel” slur. Except that is precisely what Obama and his ilk want.
We need look no further than the worshipful David Brooks, Obama’s political soul mate. He confesses, in a sort of Jack Nicholson code red moment that yes, darn it, he wants death panels. He chats with colleague Gail Collins in the New York Times blog: “I’m pro-death panel. We spend so much money on end-of-life care we have to have some way of talking about it.”
Brooks cites a moving piece in Atlantic Monthly by David Godhill which details the death of Godhill’s vital 83-year-old father who succumbed to an infection. But isn’t this the case against ObamaCare — and Brooks’ desire to shut off the flow of care to our inconveniently expensive parents and grandparents? It would be interesting to ask Brooks how much money he thinks was “wasted” trying to keep Godhill’s father alive for five weeks in the struggle to beat off an ultimately fatal infection. Well, in Brooks’ death panel world, we’ll nip much of that “wasteful” end-of-life care in the bud.
As for Obama, a candid Mickey Kaus observes: “I can’t help but feel that the reason the president doesn’t effectively rebut the ‘rationing’ argument is that he kind of believes we have to move toward rationing. But couldn’t he fake it?” Well, Obama would have to fake it and muzzle a great number of his own advisors who seem to think there’s nothing wrong with limiting care for all of us and, specifically, pulling the plug on the grandmas and grandpas who account for a disproportionate amount of health care spending.
Obama, for example, would have to hush up Rahm Emanuel’s brother Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, one of the president’s health care advisors. He too is all in favor of cutting off care to those whose days are limited and whose medical expenses are high. The Wall Street Journal reported on Dr. Emanuel:
True reform, he argues, must include redefining doctors’ ethical obligations. In the June 18, 2008, issue of JAMA, Dr. Emanuel blames the Hippocratic Oath for the “overuse” of medical care: “Medical school education and post-graduate education emphasize thoroughness,” he writes. “This culture is further reinforced by a unique understanding of professional obligations, specifically the Hippocratic Oath’s admonition to ‘use my power to help the sick to the best of my ability and judgment’ as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of cost or effect on others.”
Team Obama’s message to seniors seems to be: “Please die early, so we can reduce Medicare and Social Security costs — and tax the bejeebers out of your estate.” (It’s a real governmental two-fer: lowered expenses, increased revenue.)
Similarly, to wounded military vets being treated at VA hospitals, he implies: “Thanks for your service. Now, would you please do your duty one last time? Please spare your country oodles of cash — by refusing medical treatment.”
Dems once claimed to be the voice of the voiceless, the champions of the powerless and downtrodden. But Obama (and the people surrounding him, such as Rahm and Ezekiel Emanuel) are nothing less than callous toward many of the most vulnerable in American society.
They seem to value — as Rubin points out — the communal over the individual. It’s as if we citizens were no more than bees in a colonly, ants in a farm. To them, people have no intrinsic worth. Their only value is as contributing members of a societal whole. It all fits nicely within their socialistic philosophy.
See: Socialism (of a sort) http://emmeffemm.com/id172.html
The Left should encourage smoking. That way nobody will live long enough to be a burden on the medical system.
On another level, where is the line? If we are allowing 80 year olds to die to save money, why not allow 20 year olds to die and save even more money? I never really thought about it before but isn’t abortion a real cost saver? Kill them before they are born and save tons of money.
Health care gone wild.
This obsession with the cost of medical care in the last year of life implicitly focuses on old folks. I’ll betcha that the “last year of life” expenses applies to all age groups.
If darling Sarah Palin can derail the National Socialist express with an op-ed and a few posts on Facebook, imagine what she can do after she finishes the book and gets “active.” Expect the Chicago thugs to cling to power by any means necessary. I worry if the Palins have adequate security. President Wee Wee made it clear he is no fan of the Consitution since it doesn’t require redistribution of wealth. Ammo is back on the shelves, folks, we have to be prepared for anything from these people.
This is the heart of the matter– the worth of the individual.
“Complete lives system” of Doctor Death Emmanuel is a beard– the real problem for older people is that they are not PRODUCTIVE, just like the unborn babies they’re all so happy to kill. The money should be spent on teenagers, he argues, so they can maximise the ‘return on investment’ of their education and preparation for PRODUCTIVE LIVES.
If the value of a human being is predicated on his or her productivity, then Zeke should be coming for me soon. I haven’t done much lately. And wait til NFL season, when I”ll do NOTHING on Monday nights, THursday nights and all day Sundays.
Seriously, this is beyond chilling, it’s LUNACY. Government most certainly decides who lives and who dies in this Obama scenario, and the decisions could then have their criteria gradually corrupted.
In other words, knowing the Democrats of this generation, don’t expect much health care if you’re a Republican, ESPECIALLY if you’re a donor.
Only ghoulish liberals would think the point of healthcare is to save money.
Our country has believed in throw away babies and old people for a long, long time. Abortion is one example at one end of the cycle. The indifferent, ill-suited treatment of Alzheimer and advanced stages of cancer patients is at the other.
Don’t believe it..? Take a stroll through your local nursing home shortly after closing hours. It will make you sick to your stomach.
Does that mean our society and our system is bad? No. But, it does illustrate what you get when you blend control, distorted purposes and self-aggradizemnent as silent partners into the inherent authority of most any position of responsibilty in our nation’s workforce.
The things that makes Obama’s kingdom a standout target are the shared elements of hatred and intent; where America, white people and Jews deserve to be punished and slapped down, while blacks and Muslims are to be rewarded as much as possible. Racism announces the arrival of each new day to Obama and crew.
Along the way someone convinced Obama that if and when he became President that no person or thing could dispute; much less question or take away his power over other people.
The mess that his healthcare reform proposal is in now is but one, small part of many illustrating what that kind of brute force ignorance and sloppiness will do to the best; or the worst plans of mice and men.
“They seem to value — as Rubin points out — the communal over the individual.”
That has been the goal of the Democrat Party for at least 40 years.
The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise.
The Obama Administration should show how much they believe in this change, they should be the first to opt in. Perhaps it may give them pause, since most of them have lived complete lives and are older than Dr. Zeke’s cut off of 40. And Lord knows we’d save money, these people are SUPERSTARS at spending other people’s money.
How is this different from Hitler’s treatment of the aged, infirm and mentally handicapped (e.g. downs and “feeble-minded”)? Are we in the process of rehabilitating the Nazi aura?
Just remember that such “societal value judgments” will not be applied to senior government officials. Since their value is transcendent, so of course the amount of resources budgeted for their medical care throughout life will accordingly be unlimited.
As long as they are “loyal progressives”, that is.
The moral being that in Obama’s Brave New World, being Teddy Kennedy is going to be far safer than being …you or me.
Just something to think about.
clear ether
eon
So why not go to a “Evolution in action” program for all ages and behaviors. Drugs? Make them legal, and more lethal (pure) with the warning “if you take this you will die” (a’la’ cigarettes), thereby quickly removing the most expensive part of our population, the drug addicted/addled and criminally motivated drug addicted. The stupid? Testing, then consignment to menial dangerous jobs until evolution has it’s way. The strong will survive to pass along their DNA, the weak, the stupid, and the politically untrustable will disappear, leaving a healthier and more genetically pure population . . .
This is Ezekiel’s real point, move those unproductive out of the population, his is the ultimate “what have you done for me today” attitude
To channel Rod Serling, somewhere, in some forgotten corner of the Twilight Zone, Heinrich Himmler is laughing.
Bush started death panels long ago:
Feb 12, 2004
“Inadequate funding for health care. Under the President’s Fiscal Year 2005 Budget, budget authority for veterans’ medical care will rise to $27.051 billion from $26.544 billion appropriated by Congress in Fiscal Year 2004 – an increase of only $507 million, or 1.9 percent.
Veterans of Foreign Wars Commander-in-Chief Edward S. Banas, Sr. stated that “this funding package is a disgrace and a sham.” (VFW Press Release, 2/2/04)
Even VA Secretary Anthony Principi admitted that President Bush shortchanged veterans, testifying to the House Veterans Affairs Committee that he asked the White House for $1.2 billion more than VA received.”
“New fees and copayments.
Last year, President Bush proposed establishing steep new fees and copayments for Priority 7 and Priority 8 veterans. Congress, with bipartisan opposition to this proposal, increased the President’s meager veterans’ budget to block this proposal.
Despite Congress’s action last year, President Bush has again called for establishing $250 annual fees for Priority 7 and Priority 8 veterans, and increasing pharmaceutical copayments from $7 to $15 for these same veterans.
As Richard Fuller, Legislative Director of the Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA) points out, “punitive copayments and charges are designed not so much to swell projected budget increases as they are to deter veterans from seeking their care at VA medical facilities.” (House Veterans Affairs Committee hearing, 2/4/04)
Along with a continuing prohibition against new Priority 8 veterans enrolling in the system, these additional fees are intended to discourage approximately 210,000 veterans from seeking VA health care.”
The Bush legacy.
Tom Daschle (unable to make it for HHS secretary due to personal tax issues) is, nevertheless, one of Obama’s point men on what “health care” for the elderly, and in general, should look like.
…his book “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis,”…Mr. Daschle proposes a National Health Board to regulate the way health care is provided…Given the opportunity, Mr. Daschle would likely charge the board with determining which treatments and drugs are cost effective and therefore permissible to use for patients covered by the government…Liberal experts, Mr. Daschle included, believe that America needs to ration new technology and drugs…Mr. Daschle proposes nothing less than a giant HMO with a federal bureaucracy setting the benefit plan.
The Obama administration (official and unofficial members of) is apparently teeming with big government social engineers.
I don’t think tommy the tax cheat has any right to say what can and can’t happen to grandma.
Obama Will Ration Your Health Care
The fundamental problem in all of this is “the lawyer”. Until the likes John Edwards and his ilk are prevented from profiting as ambulance chasers, they can kill as many of us as they like and the costs will still not go down.
If we get “the lawyer” out of our government, there will be no tort reform. Until we get “the lawyer” out of our government, there will be no term limits. Until we get “the lawyer” out of our government, it will not be “OUR” government.
“Nuff said?
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the current agenda of the federal government, under HHS Sebelius and DHS Napolitano et al., might be described as Crying Just a Wee Tad Wolf over the H1N1 flu virus.
Big government needs to scare the crapola out of you in order to justify itself
Surprise, surprise: the death cult left loves death.
I dont get it Jennifer, your entire article is about a policy that does not exist.. and a system that has not even been voted on or created yet. Which means your article is about theory and fantasy, so it dont exist; and so, to your credit, my opinion will not exist either. Get back to us after the reforms are debated, voted on, passed and health care for all comes to fruition, then we can comment on it.
Dear Poor Citizen:
It’s been 9 1/2 months since this piece first appeared.. At this moment, health care “reform” is purportedly a done deal, having been crammed down our throats via discriminatory closed door, Democrats and likeminded only sessions..
At this very moment, Kathleen Sebelius is publicly “defending” Obama’s hand pick, rationing advocate Dr. Donald Berwick, as the bees’ knees to run CMS (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid)..
The significance in this as their early on…. CHOICE to get things up and running..?
What other service in our country comes even close to very literally holding the Life and Death of that many of the most vulnerable of our population in their hands..?
How do you like Jennifer’s, not to mention the rest of our, “theory and fantasy”……
NOW..?
~
The problem with the whole concept is, of course, fairly obvious; there’s a good reason for why the Judeo-Christian ethic promotes care of the young and elderly.
With regards to the young: how are we to know the potential of any particular child? Einstein, Pasteur, Ghandi, and Jesus were all unassuming children once. The statist mindset, of course, accepts no exceptional individuals – except for the children of the elite, of course. I rather imagine that Dr. Emanuel (how did a guy like that get that particular name?) would not be subject to his own rationing policies.
Which, of course leads us to the other problem with allowing children to die – the parents. You are going to do what to my kid? The …. you are!
With regards to the oldsters: I read an interesting story in a sociology book once (I can’t remember exactly which one). A scientist was studying a tribe on one of the Pacific islands and ran across one of the oldest women on the island; she must have been over 90 years old, had arthritis, and had lost all of her teeth. Her granddaughter had to chew her food for her and care for her. The sociologist asked himself why a family would go through all of this trouble for one old lady who could no longer have or care for children?
The answer was fairly obvious, when he figured it out. This woman was the last survivor of the previous “100 year” hurricane. She knew not only the foods that you could eat when the main crops were wiped out by a storm, but what you could eat to survive when those were destroyed also.
The old are our collective memory. They know what worked and why. The “liberal” (to use the current meaning for the word) mindset is one for the young; everything is for the here and now, there are no lessons to be learned from the past; theory and good intentions are everything, experience of the past means nothing.
The “Death Panels” to use an inflammatoty phrase, are still there and have not been removed, folks. In fact, half the apparatus has already been signed into law.
No, I’m not talking about senior counseling. I’m talking about the innocuously-named Office of the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, which has the legal power to monitor treatments and make sure your doctor is doing things the government-approved way- and, yes, imposes stiff penalties on providers who fail to be “meaningful users” of the system.
But that’s just the beginning. Also passed last February (under the guise of ‘creating or saving jobs blah blah blah) was the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. And what is this? Why, it’s a carbon copy of Great Britain’s National Institute of Comparative Effectiveness- the body which, yes, really does “pull the plug on granny.” Under the NICE, all patients are assessed as having a certain number of “Quality Adjusted Life Years” remaining to them; and any procedure which costs more than $50,000/QALY is- not allowed. Sorry, gramps, you’re not worth a hip replacement. Enjoy your wheelchair.
Paranoid? Exaggerated? Hardly: doctors in Britain have come out, revealing that elederly patients are in effect being euthanized by this regime: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html
The completion of the scheme is in the yet-to-be-passed HR 3200, which the Dems loudly proclaim “won’t ration your healthcare.” Yeah, right:
SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:
‘…(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.
‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition’ means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .
‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission’ means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.
‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .
And Democrats wonder why the people don’t believe them…….
Sorry, I meant to say UNTIL we get the lawyer out of our government, there will be no tort reform.
It’s the last day of an exceedingly wonderful week on the North Carolina coast. My brain has not yet engaged.
President Obama has already lost the battle with “health-care reform” given he is making yet another speech after 111 speeches this Summer, this time, to Congress; Congressional speeches are for emergency purposes only. The health-care debate is not an emergency given over 80% of people are satisfied with their insurance. The real emergency is to for Obama to rescue his administration from his own feckless bumbling. The people know the score with the Democrats & President Obama’s plans for health-care: Absolute control over life & death. We the people will not stand for it. Obama can take his Death Panels & shove it where the sun does not shine.
Citizens, move along. There is no need for concern. The experts have everything under control. They know what is best for everyone.
Don (12)
The problem with this approach, of course, is that this isn’t how evolution works. Genetics is an effort to outguess the future, and the problem is that we do not and cannot know what genetic trait will prove essential to our descendents as they fight to survive.
The gene that generates sickle-cell anemia also gives protection against malaria. We might look at a man and see a cripple in a wheel chair as “weak” and “defective” but it may be his will to survive that proves crucial a thousand years down the road. What arrogance to assume that we know what the future will bring.
From the Proverbs of Solomon, “As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.”
Thank you for documenting and publishing what these people are thinking in their hearts. As you say, it has been obvious, but for the sake of fighting back, it’s good to be specific.
David C. Bossard (10):
Yep. See “Modern Fascism” by Gene Veith and “Liberal Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg. The modern socialist progressive movement (“tranzies” to use a phrase coined by writer John Ringo) is directly descended from the teachings used by the Nazi party.
John “birther” Sanford
“The Left should encourage smoking. That way nobody will live long enough to be a burden on the medical system.”
You are so right! Just imagine all the savings they can come up with!
1. Close down all ambulance services and let stroke victims, heart attack victims die.
2. No more ambulances to scenes of traffic accidents.
3. Get all medical centers off campuses (from elementary school-universities)
4. No more medical teams at allprofessional sports/NASCAR venues.
5. Shoot, close down all maternity wards along with neonatal care units.
I’m curious….did “Dr.” Emanuel ever treat patients? If so, it would be nice to hear from them. If he has never had hands on experience at treating living, breathing human beings, we should disregard the crap he espouses. He is without a soul.
Dr. Emanuel blames the Hippocratic Oath for the “overuse” of medical care
~~~~
Isn’t there an interview/screening process for admitance to medical school? How did he ever get PAST that? at the very least (I know it won’t happen – especially with this group, none of whom are fit for their jobs) have his license revoked. Though sending this group to some Carribean Island where they can practice their theories on each other to their little hearts content is appleaing. And obeymugabe/marxist Lord of the Flies. (or is that cuba, which the left thinks is so wonderful, but not wonderful enough to EMIGRATE there.)
I don’t blame them. Given that the momentum of this stupid teabagging movement seems to be supplied elderly with few cognitive abilities and little to do, I’m beginning to wish there was a death panel provision in the bill. The ensuing fascist state would be worth enduring if we could chop a little dead weight off of our polity. I’m on the record now as opposing Obama’s refusal to add death panels to the provisions. I’m sure neither he nor members of the legislature had ever heard of, or even considered such a thing before you morons hypnotized the low-functioning retards that make up the base of your party into repeating the term ad nauseum. But, yeah, I have to say, its probably looking like a really good idea to a lot of people across the political spectrum.
‘Nothing lower, the left punditocracy fumed, than coming up with the “death panel” slur.’
There’s always something lower, Jennifer. We just have to wait for your next post.
“…David Brooks, Obama’s political soul mate.”
LOL. You better watch out, Jennifer. You’re getting so far right you may come out the other side and soon be blogging for CounterPunch.
Back in the 1970′s , Dr. Francis Schaeffer, a Christian philosopher and others warned of the slippery slope where as a post Christian West increasingly deemed children in the womb and the disabled as unwanted, it would eventually issue in calls to kill the old and infirm. It’s happening before our eyes. David in comment #10 asked how it differs from the policies of the Nazis. I would say in rhetoric only. Instead of Julius Steicher and Rudolph Hess Jew-baiting and setting the philosophical stage for the Holocaust, we have the elites such as ironically the lapsed Jew Dr. Emmanuel now in softer tones urging the aged to go off quietly into the night.
Dave mentions the plan to eliminate the unproductive. How bizarre is it that it is advocated by the most unproductive of all, the parasitic political class who produce nothing but crackpot theories, ruinous economic policies and corruption on a last days of Roman scale. God help us.
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice ,but when the wicked rule the people mourn” Proverbs 29:2
That’s phase 1. But the same logic that allows that conclusion also allows the disabled to be discounted. So while the 15-40 group out of an otherwise unremarkable population gets the priority, after phase 2, type 1 diabetics are are only considered viable up to age 25.
Then we start applying this logic to social welfare. Why furnish SSI payments to someone who will never be economically “viable”?
Then we start applying this logic to social security. Why furnish SS payments to someone who will never be economically “viable”?
Etc.
And that’s assuming that the system operates honestly. In reality, the politically connected can expect unlimited care, and the unconnected can expect to be disconnected.
1. Mike Murray:
Dems once claimed to be the voice of the voiceless, the champions of the powerless and downtrodden. But Obama (and the people surrounding him, such as Rahm and Ezekiel Emanuel) are nothing less than callous toward many of the most vulnerable in American society.
~~~~
With abortion well established, it’s time for them to move forward with the program.
Yesterday, abortion.
Today those at end-of-life (regardless of age. My friends twin grandson’s would have died before their first birthday without bone marrow transplants. All those WANTED premies would be allowed to die because of how much medical care they can require to get them healthy enough to go home. Currently, I’d rather have a premie here than in ANY socialized medicine country.), or *expensive* chronic conditions.
Tomorrow, those of us who don’t agree with him will be carted off to re-education camps, where (according to his buddie billy in 1970 numbers) 25 MILLION people will be “reeducated” to agree with him. (or at least have our voices silenced.)
Yeah, but what hasn’t been said about the death panels is who will run them on a local level. The Kenyan now has to find good paying government jobs for thousands of loyal ACORN workers (they did vote for all those nursing home residents and dead people, after all). The ACORNers will be fine for the local and regional citizens’ panels that will distribute health care resources (see: the Canadian system and the MRI resources for Vancouver) either geographically or ny medical definition or both.
As government workers, these folks will get giant bonuses for attaining specific job objectives. Thus, it a female ACORNer who has never held a job before can get a 20% bonus for not spending more than her allocated budget, what does she care about the next 25 seniors who need heart stents. It is too bad that they will either have to wait for the next fiscal year (October 1st?) or die but they are, after all, old white people who have oppressed the truly deserving for these many years.
On the flip side, since these death panel administrators are democrats, they will be bribeable and a white senior may get her stent and the head of the line for a reasonable payment on the side.
Nothing I’ve run into since January shows better than the comments and thinking of the Americans writing above why this government-controlled sickcare effort by the valueless nitwits of the Left will fail in the United States. Thank you all.
Cue trolls, please.
The whole attitude of Obamacare from free abortions to death panels is to treat people like animals. Cull the herd.
This was a useful topic when it focused attention on the fact that NO ONE had actually read this bill being rammed through Congress.
It’s useful now only to the extent that it shows how deeply deceitful our government has become. But the problem there is that those who are predisposed to blindly believe BHO aren’t going to be swayed by this. And to those of us who know BHO is a documented, serial liar, well, it’s just nothing new.
This new “debate” over whether or not there are “death panels” explicitly or implicitly authorized in the bill is only serving as a distraction now.
Dave @5 proclaims: “This is the heart of the matter– the worth of the individual.”
Nothing could be further from the truth, and the explanation is quite simple.
The HEART of the matter is the value of health care itself – as compared to how how WE (yes, we) have blindly allowed health care costs to skyrocket.
We did this over decades, through OUR OWN MISUSE OF INSURANCE and our own lazy penchant for “spreading the cost around”.
Now, we have literally handed the socialists an issue to exploit. The heart of the matter is not the worth of the individual – that notion only addresses whether or not socialized medicine can include rationing. It doesn’t explain why socialized medicine is completely unnecessary right now.
The real heart of the matter is the value of health care itself. And the longer we go without recognizing that fact, the deeper into irrelevant thesis and false compromise we will fall, losing more of the Republic in the process.
All routine costs of living are kept affordable because consumers have a DIRECT financial relationship with the provider. All EXCEPT FOR routine health care. Health care is the ONLY market where we allow SOMEONE ELSE to determine the value (and thus the price) of the care we consume. And health care is the ONLY market where costs have skyrocketed at rates in excess of 400% of inflation for years. Think about it – do you pay for food, heat, your car, clothes, housing, transportation or any other routine cost of living using an insurance policy?
The heart of the problem is that the giant mega-corporations who have total control over the price of health care – and who decide this matter FOR US – do not have OUR best interests in mind. They’re not “evil”, they’re just working based on a business plan and a profit motive – not some altruistic morality bent on keeping health care affordable.
The proof is right here: health care costs have skyrocketed literally out of control since about 1975 – when various forms of comprehensive health care – starting with federally-mandated HMOs – began taking turns deciding FOR US how much our health care goods and services are worth.
More recently, the topic of “health care” was barely on the public’s radar until BHO and his social engineers threatened to totally screw it up by seizing control of the health care market. Now it’s a “crisis” despite the fact that over 80% of the public is satisfied with the health care the get.
It’s a crisis for one reason – we keep letting pundits direct the discussion AWAY from anything that has a chance of resolving the issue completely. They keep the discussion in a state of perpetual, he-said/she-said conflict that sells advertising and gives them an excuse to write another ‘scathing’ article about what the OTHER side is doing.
Screw that.
If you want to get this health care issue behind us, you’ll have to figure out how to get the cost of routine health care BACK in line with other routine costs of living – as it once was, before the advent of price-ratcheting insurance plans like HMOs, comprehensive insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. That’s the ONLY “debate” worth having on this issue. Everything else is an excuse to sell GoogleAds.
Bring the cost down and you eliminate the argument over whether or not it’s cost-effective to treat the elderly. Bring the costs down and you eliminate the bogus “problem” of the “millions of uninsured” (uhmmm… insurance is not health care, last I checked). Bring the costs down and you eliminate one more lever the socialists have to corrupt the Republic and turn it into another failing, culturally dying, Euro-style “utopia”.
It is obvious now that Obama and his Socialist minions will do and say anything to get their ultra leftist agenda in place. Basically what you see describes a duck. Just don’t call it a duck and it’s alright. If you need to sneak parts of the transformation in under the radar, so be it. The People really don’t know what’s good for them anyway.
As a Baby Boomer, I am offended.
As a doctor I am outraged and even though I’m only 48, I think retirement rather than giving up my values is the correct response.
As a citizen of the United States, I’m flabbergasted and think that it really is time to force the government to take a more “american” position and free market position before they force us to have a revolution
This emphasis on everything to undermine the free market and societal values into whatever President Obama is “Remaking America” into has to end.
It does begin to explain his failure to discuss the developing Bankruptcy of Medicare and Social Security. If he can decrease the size of the dependent elderly population he can alter the expending elderly population imbalance with the younger workforce population.
“When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.”
It just hit me what this reminds me of – Logan’s Run.
The novel, which goes into more detail, explains that the whole change came about because of overpopulation. As a “solution”, one merry young fellow suggested that after 21 years people should voluntarily kill themselves to make room for the next generation. When this person actually did kill himself on reaching that age, the movement took off, and the dystopia was created.
Well, checking his biography, Ezekiel is now over 50.
I think in order to demonstrate his sincere belief in his proposed system he should forthwith refuse all medical care in order to give those aged 15-40 the “most substantial chance”.
Indeed, I think all supporters of this who are over 50 should join him in refusing all medical treatment for anything, and those who are 40-50 should make a similar effort, letting their chances be “attenuated” by only accepting medical treatment at free clinics, and always letting any 15-40 year old go ahead of them in line.
By such a gesture they would prove both their committment to the program, and demonstrate how it will improve all of our lives.
Renew! Renew!
Moho, I truly feel sorry for you, what an empty morally bankrupt political whore you are. Nothing decent or humane crosses the threshold into the shriveled up black heart you possess.
“THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET’S KILL ALL THE LAWYERS.” – William Shakespeare.
And now, as we speak, this President’s sycophants in the MSM (pretty much describes the whole crowd) and the manipulators inside his circle are busy pumping his speech next week.
ASIF this prétendeur can get back his mojo (always phony to begin with) with a single speech and all those folks can go back to business as usual, i.e., unabashed swooning.
Obama will rely on a sense of immediacy and crisis, as in, we had to act yesterday
…in search of one thing that can revive his health-care overhaul: a sense of crisis
Even if one could make a morally defensible argument for culling the elderly, soon-to-die, infirm, and unborn as Dr. Emanuel would have us do—and one cannot make such an argument; his argument is purely utilitarian, i.e., we have a better use for the money—then a demonstration of a better use for the money would have to PRECEDE the existence of death panels. “Poor Citizen”, for instance, does not seem to get that.
What would such a better use consist of? More money to ACORN? Massive new bureaucracies? Huge new buildings named for politicians? Another “economic stimulus” (“shovels ready, men!”)? Surely in a democracy the choice of a “better use” should be decided by the people in a direct way, for instance a referendum, or more likely a series of them. How about some town halls on this subject? Certainly we could not trust our elected “representatives” to resist the influence of the usual suspects, given both their past legislative history and the extreme unlikelihood that they will restrict their own, future health care to the system that they will foist on a unsuspecting populace.
Furthermore, even if one could define the “better use(s)”, one still has to be able to identify the contributors to that better use in an accurate way. If the British have just maltreated a million or so, albeit with the purest of intentions, what makes us think we will do any better. Do we seriously think we have more competent bureaucrats than the Brits? Please!
When these issues can be dealt with, and the politicians drink from the same cup of misery, we can begin to think that some iota of democracy has been restored to the people. Until then, beware of the people who will claim that the world would be a better place (for them) if you would please hurry up and ease on out of it.
Mo(hammedan)Ho:
“Given that the momentum of this stupid teabagging movement seems to be supplied elderly with few cognitive abilities and little to do, I’m beginning to wish there was a death panel provision in the bill”
Well, at least the Muslim Marxist reveals his true Stalinist nature, and his slavering lust to kill Americans.
Listen up, Slave of Mahound: First we are going to take our country back; and then the deportations will start. That’s right- we’re going to get Ferdinand and Isabella on your primitive terrorist asses.
So why don’t you just go home now? You’re not welcome in civilized lands.
If the British have just maltreated a million or so, albeit with the purest of intentions, what makes us think we will do any better. Do we seriously think we have more competent bureaucrats than the Brits?
“purest of intentions” might be a bit generous.
I read of all those lucky sick, old folks under the NHS plan who (after “the board” has made a collective decision that tne end is near) are put under, and kept under, sedation.
And if there were an improvement in underlying condition, the sedation would mask that.
The death panels are in the stimulus bill, it’s called the FCCER, it works in conjunction with
Section 1233, with the 500 billion dollar cut in Medicare, and the ‘complete lives system’
The Arapahoe Indians would strip their old widows of their clothing and possessions and leave them on the plains to die–kind of a Noble Savage death panel.
The Democrats are not much improved it seems.
“If we are allowing 80 year olds to die to save money, why not allow 20 year olds to die and save even more money?”
Because the 20 year old has lots and lots of tax paying days ahead of them while the 80 year old ain’t payin’ anymore. To many leftists, if you ain’t payin’, you ain’t worth savin’
19. Poor Citizen: “I dont get it Jennifer, your entire article is about a policy that does not exist.. and a system that has not even been voted on or created yet. Which means your article is about theory and fantasy, so it dont exist; and so, to your credit, my opinion will not exist either. Get back to us after the reforms are debated, voted on, passed and health care for all comes to fruition, then we can comment on it.”
By the time this thing passes (assuming that it is not altered into something more reasonable and appropriate), it will be too late to discuss it. The time is right now for discussion and shining the light on where these people want to take our healthcare system. If you don’t want to hear about it, simply push your index fingers into your ears and say ‘lalalalalalalalalalala!!’ Meantime, the rest of us are going to be focused on encouraging our reps. and senators to work out a sensible plan.
The Eskimos left the old person by a fire with a small stack of firewood, while the group moved on.
Lights out when the firewood was gone.
I’ve thought about that a lot over the years. It strikes me as a more humane way of dealing with the inevitable than anything dreamed up between the ears of Dr. Zeke, John Holdren or that way too curly haired tax cheat, Tommy D.
I despise these people running DC with every ounce of my capacity to despise.
(over and out)
Thanks for this, JR.
Miss Contentions quite a bit. Some of the commenters there were second to none.
Still love your Flotsam and Jetsam.
Truth is we probably do too much to extend life way past its natural end. But I have two parents who have benefited from this generosity of mind and spirit, and I still have them with me. I can never put a value on such a gift, much less repay it.
But the decision on when not to do anymore must always remain between doctor, patient and family. There is no place here for the clinical work of the bureaucrat, petty or otherwise.
Palin, and I have done my share of criticizing her, bought the Country precious time, and we should all be grateful for that. IIRC, her first death panel tweet had the phrase in quotes indicating some hyperbole and future devolution based on Emanuel’s clinical writing.
Unfortunately, the Right is cannibalistic and much less intelligent and adept than the Left in this regard.
Thanks again for lending your support here.
poor subject:Get back to us after the reforms are debated, voted on, passed and health care for all comes to fruition, then we can comment on it.”
yeah,let’s wait until the battle is lost,then fight.
i’m sure when their time comes,all these rich old codgers are going to jump off the lid of a pill bottle….for the good of the nation.
if people fall for this,they deserve what they get.
Imagine the kind of ‘health care’ bill that will be written by 0bama and his loony ‘Czars’ if he decides to do so? The DK thinks 0bama should write it himself too.
-And, people think the 0bamacare bill is bad now! HA!
8. Kazooskibum:
“That has been the goal of the Democrat Party for at least 40 years. The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise.”
It’s long past time we face the fact that there will never be a working two party system in this country as long as the democrat party continues to exist.
The Democrat party is the party of:
Democrat led secession to avoid the ending slavery
Democrat led Civil War with the other states in the Union
Democrat Andrew Johnson vetoes the Civil Rights Act of 1866
Democrat “black codes” ignore Civil Rights Acts of 1866 & 1871
Democrat Justices strike down the criminal provisions of the 1871 KKK Act
Democrat disenfranchisement of Black and Indian voters in former Confederate states
Democrat state blood laws define unconstitutional multiple classes of citizenship
Democrat sponsored and led creation of state eugenics laws 20s
Democrat FDR deepening economic depression with illegal programs
Democrat FDR attempts to expand the Supreme Court rather than obey Court rulings
Democrat FDR illegally imprisons Japanese, German, and Italian, citizens without due process
Democrat ignoring of the 1871 Act leads to Republican passage of 1964 Civil Rights Act
LBJ and the breaking into the SS trust fund for Great Society funding
Jimmy Carter unilaterally ignoring commitments to Iran and supporting the Ayatollah Khomeini
Democrat led government unions ignore and even fight in court the effects of elections
Democrat creation of agencies and institutions to destroy private property rights
Democrat Fwank ridiculing the Bush attempts to increase regulation on Mortgage lending
Democrat Dodd ignoring regulations and blatantly manipulating markets on behalf of his donors
Democrat Hussein Obama and Congress nationalize financial and automobile industries
Democrat Hussein Obama violates law by refusing to accept loan repayments
Democrat Hussein Obama bypasses Congressional oversight by appointing “czars”
Democrat Hussein Obama establishes compensation limits on private businesses
Democrat congress conspires under color of law to deprive citizens of their right to life
Democrat congress conspires under color of law to create multiple classes of citizenship
Democrat HB3200 ignores Eskra v. Morton and creates titles of ignobility
Democrat “Hate Crime” legislation which creates unconstitutional new classes of citizens
Americans can no longer ignore the criminal anti-Constitutional nature of and purpose of the democrat party. As can be clearly seen by the repeated democrat establishment and attempts to establish multiple classes of citizenship throughout its history, the democrat party is now and always has been dedicated to a single goal. That single goal is to undermine, destroy, and replace the Republic created by the Constitution of the United States with a totalitarian Nobility that demotes the majority of citizens to the status of slaves. Any who may doubt that fact in spite of the democrat party history need only look at how effectivly democrat created welfare plantations accomplish exactly the same thing that reconstruction era black codes did.
This continuing criminal enterprise must be disbanded, those guilty of RICO Act violations, those guilty of sedition, and those guilty of treason, must be tried. All who are convicted must be incarcerated among the general population in federal prisons.
Regards
In soundbite politics “death panels” was one of the most effective comments ever. The constant derision Sarah Palin gets from the MSM gave her a platform in a way. Anything she was going to say was going to be attacked. The “death panels” facebook article was attacked all over the media, but had staying power because it is true.
The left has found end of life care burdensome on the welfare state. The left has intellectualized for along time how to over come this burden. As this post shows the left has written extensively about withholding care from the elderly. I will note a person in there sixties has payed medicare taxes there whole working life and now Obama is going gut that program. Thats how mobs form Obama.
The MSM needs to ignore Sarah or they will get out maneuvered again.
Given that they ususally fail to advance any coherent arguments but quickly degenerate into name-calling, Moho and the other trolls here and on similar sites call to mind monkeys in a cage throwing feces at each other.
The seeds of the “death panel” problem were sown with the passage of Medicare. At some point, fiscal stress was going to cause policy makers to ration. Now that were here, I don’t know how we get out of it.
But what I do know is that a public option (essentially placing everyone under Medicare) will only increase these pressures.
We need to keep talking about this but I can’t believe anyone is surprised. We have a president who, as an Illinois legislator, voted three times – that’s three times – for a law that would allow doctors to kill babies who had survived botched abortions.
You better read that again if you think it’s a misprint.
Even if there has not been a single child allowed to die outside the womb because of this, the fact that he voted this way should be prima facie evidence of felony murder. And if you don’t want to go that far, then at least acknowledge that it is forensic evidence of a twisted personality and an extremely dangerous individual.
Letting sick old people die? Big deal.
America, what have you done?
Love the emoticon; “Pollice Verso” indeed.
#54,
Unfortunately, the Right is cannibalistic and much less intelligent and adept than the Left in this regard.
Which regard ?
What do you mean by “cannibalistic” here ?
Of course one might assume Palin used “death panel” as intentionally over the top.
It certainly drew the attention she wanted it to, and a whole bunch of people, including this President, scrambling to assure you that they didn’t want to pull the plug on grandma. (Barack once again used his grandma, Toots, for illustration…)
Which seemed neither adept nor intelligent.
Is there some subtler point in your writing ?
Mary Louise – (54)
Unfortunately, the Right is cannibalistic and much less intelligent and adept than the Left in this regard.”
You can say that again, the Right often seems to be playing Frisbee at a chess match. The left will drag their wounded along with them for years just in case they need that one extra vote. It seems to work since thieves like Rangel are still there and have more seniority than ever. Republicans, geez, they’d have tossed him over the side about ten years and fifteen ethics accusations ago. But hey, which is more entertaining? Run of the mill graft with tax evasion, or a South American Sweetie?
Republicans let democrats hold them to the standards republicans profess, democrats just laugh when they’re caught not living by the standards they profess. A lot of it has been the obvious bias in the media when they were considering who and what to investigate. NYT and others swore that their letting the world know some republican may have at one time no more than a mere thirty years ago, lied, was way more important than a few democrat murders here and there.
Regards
Meryl: You’ve got a point.
The ONLY way to contain health costs – to obliterate them, actually – is to completely do away with ALL medical care. No hospitals. No ambulances. No doctors. Without medical care, there will be no need for insurance or a single payer system. Talk about cost containment! Imagine the savings!
We should probably keep dentists and opthomologists around, though. No one likes bad breath or blind people driving cars.
@62
I probably could have phrased that a whole lot better. I’m not so sure it’s subtler, tanstaafl, but here’s what I meant.
The top right of the conservative “movement” has a need to purge. The lower right has that need too, and each group detests the other. And I mean detest.
The Left understands that its more unsavory folk present a PR problem, but they don’t seem to act on it, at least in public. They know, and I think accurately so, that if you start this kind of carving up it leads to more and more of same. We have loud-mouthed, academic boys-playing-men crying for a carving of the birthers while a Truther, Yale educated, is an unelected Czar of ‘green jobs.’ These strictly library boys -and please don’t take that to mean I don’t value and admire scholarship and education because I’m in awe of it when I’m truly in the presence of it- are wondering how to recover the college grads and/or “intellects” that Republicans have lost over the last few elections. These boys have no real appreciation for limited government. They’re not even savvy enough to yell: stop, do no more harm!
This is really an important read. Just as important is the need for conservatives, and I use that term with fevered brow, to understand that we are to remain a body in motion. I think the piece linked explains with erudtion where we are, and why we are where we are.
I hope you like it as much as I did.
I’m a registered conservative, and I want out in the worst way. If the libertarian party had some sort of bottom to it, I’d re-register in the blink of an eye. I have nowhere to go, so I’ve got to stay where I am, at least for now.
Death panels are just the beginning. After the Kool Kidz pull the plug on the grannies (or your bother who fell off his motorcycle), their buddy Cass Sunstein wants to cut ‘em for parts. (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/53534) Think that might influence an “end of life counseling session”?
“Treating 65-year-olds differently because of stereotypes or falsehoods would be ageist; treating them differently because they have already had more life-years is not.”
Er, brilliant, just brilliant. 65 years old, time to retire. His tax paying working life is over, his social security receiving retirement life just begins. The good doctor has just solved the twin “crisis” with one stroke (not the kind old people suffer). He has solved the deficit crisis too with the surplus in the social security “lockbox”.
To recap, the brilliant doctor has solved three crises: the deficit crisis, the social security crisis, and the healthcare crisis with the Death Panel.
In “The Bear and the Dragon” by Tom Clancy, a member of the Beijing Politburo said in so many words that a policy disaster took place. Even though he used code, which is the case with Agent Zero and his zombies, the meaning was clear for those who broke the code.
Agent Zero’s code has been broken. The meanings words have are because he wants them to have those meanings, regardless of the conventional definition.
Therefore, if the leader does it, then everyone else has to. Which goes a long way in explaining
why Spanish that reflects the upper crust sounds like it is spoken with a lisp; because King Ferdinand spoke with a lisp.
MOHO/VIVO:
These two schmucks are the official apologists for the radical left. They are a tireseome pair of adolescent thumbsuckers (well, MoHo insists upon keeping one finger up his nose). Thank you both for you invaluable contributions to this thread. Now, please, follow your convictions and self-abort.
The Progressive Marxists want death panels, presumably to make health care less expensive; yet enacting tort reform would cut health care costs by 20 to 30 percent. Now, why would they refuse to make such an obvious cost reduction? Maybe, it is because trial lawyers are their biggest supporters or contributors. Surely they wouldn’t be so obvious in their corruption and lies.
Let’s call a spade a spade, are not death panels nothing more than legalized murder? Sure let’s murder our parents and in a few years you can murder me and in twenty years feel free to murder my children. Such is the natural cycle of life. We all become murderers and we will all be slain, except for the elites, they are not participants in our bloody games.
From Hamlet Act 1, Scene 5
Ghost: Revenge thy dear father’s foul and most unnatural murder.
Hamlet: Murder?
Ghost: Murder most foul…
We Are Murderers Everyone
by Steve Sampson
Aye! once we were a Christian Nation
Now has come the debauched gestation
From a more human Progressive Marxist
Obama, whose cruel knife is sharpest
We must murder those who are dearest
Sharpen your knives and soon a test
We all must murder, all those who are dear
Don’t think twice, there’s nothing to fear
You may feel the blood spurting up your arm
When you wash your hands, no cause for alarm
Soon you will kill more and the tell tale feeling
Will wash away, and one day there will be no tingling
Enjoy Obama’s Dystopia, and one day, you will feel the blade
Held by a murderer’s hands, in one quick move, be not afraid
We are all to be murderers, except for the Elites
We die like sheep, they only die in their sleep
Thanks for your reply, Mary Louise.
I’m not as academically oriented as your Claremont piece in my understanding of what is going on with this Presidency and why it has happened. I’ll read it more closely later on, tho’, I candidly admit, I’m not a reader of dense, long analysis.
My own analysis would be something like describing Obama as “the man wearing the mirrored suit onto whom so many of the badly educated and ideologues have projected what they want to see” or, “the guy facilitated by the $750 million campaign war chest, the champion of the Left that George Soros and cronies have been seeking to inflict upon the land for a very, very long time.” (and they are calling in their chits, currently trying to force withdraw from Afghanistan which Obama constantly pumped as ‘the good war’ during the campaign)
(I have understood from the outset that this particular Emperor has no clothes)
I caught the reference in your link to economic uncertainty which did facilitate Obama’s win. A cynic wonders about the intentionality of the financial instability, ACORN encouraged bad practices in the lending markets, Democrat insistence on backing rocky loans in light of the Community Re-Investment Act, originally passed under Jimmy Carter and given some new teeth under Bill Clinton.
This country really is right of center, and Obama, given his extremely narcissistic personality, mis-understands that a 5% winning margin in bad economic times does not grant carte blanche for a makeover of the Republic. I think he’s been learning that this August, and the “I won so shut-up” approach has really turned off a lot of people.
The mirror is cracking.
Here is my nomination for sentence of the year for this hopefully one term malignant narcissist who currently sits as US President:
“I like Obama but I reject the suggestion that he is an intellectual. He is an activist merely mimicking the mannerisms of an intellectual.”
Other insights ring true as well..
Opinions About the Not So Obvious
“We all become murderers and we will all be slain, except for the elites, they are not participants in our bloody games.”
When someone turns 62, put them an arena, arm them with swords, clubs, and various weapons that require close up killing, sell tickets and PPV rights to the matches. Any any of them who survive three matches is granted another 20 years having provided sufficient ticket revenue to pay for the burden on society they represent.
Alternatively, would could just rewind to a few years back when the democrats were telling us how badly we needed to respect all seniors and the wisdom they had acquired over their lifetimes.
Regards
The argument made by Democrats in favor of the “public option” is that Medicare is more efficient than private insurance thus health care costs will be lower in a similar government run “public option” plan. If this is true, how can 500 Billion be taken out of Medicare in “savings” if Medicare is as “efficient” as the politicians claim. It just does not make sense and Seniors know it
The truth is the only way to cut 500 Billion out of Medicare is by making drastic cuts in services for Seniors. This is just plain wrong. No wonder there is so much talk about “Death Panels”.
The government has a fiduciary responsibility to not cut their services via cutting 500 Billion from Medicare. Bottom line, health care reform should not be paid for at the expense of Seniors.
Politicians should be aware of the fact the Seniors will rise up and vote any politician who votes for a 500 billion dollar cut in Medicare out of office.
Health Care Reform Is All Pain For No Gain: Government’s fiduciary responsibility to Seniors will be broken by cutting 500 Billion from Medicare which will result in drastic cuts in services. Young folks will be forced into buying health care insurance against their will. Businesses will pay higher taxes and fees to pay for Health Care Insurance they cannot afford resulting in more layoffs and business failures. Everyone’s insurance costs will go up due to more government mandates that will force people to pay for coverage they don’t want or need. So why is President Obama and the Dems trying to ram such a lose lose plan on all Americans when the vast majority like their current insurance? Answer: So the Dems supporters, government union workers, benefit at the cost of the rest of us. That is why you see so many union workers at the town hall meetings advocating health care reform at the behest of their benefactors, the Dems.
It’s not about “pulling the plug on grandma.” That’s a bit of Obama misdirection. It’s about whether grandma gets the plug in the first place.
65. Mary Louise:
You shouldn’t have been so shy in sharing this link, very educative, too long but scanning helps
http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1644/article_detail.asp
“I’m a registered conservative, and I want out in the worst way. . . . I have nowhere to go, so I’ve got to stay where I am, at least for now.”
You can always be an independent . . .
CARLA:
Bravo. Time to flush moho/vivo down into the great septic tank of pukes.
69. carla:
As long as I can erase ignorance, I’ll be around. I love the World we live in, so why not make it better?
Gnats like you are at the bottom of the food chain.
Next time we will hearing stories where grandma and grandpa went hiding because the death panel are looking to replace them with young illegal aliens reliable voting democrats. Just like the cherokees were forcibly remove in favor for white settlers. Are we heading that way ,too?
The ‘death panel’ attitude is not partisan. Look how most Americans treat their elders. Look at the Japanese or Latin cultures. Big difference!
After having worked all their lives, retirement comes and everyone thinks you are not useful. What an IGNORANT idea. From a financial point of view, seniors are spending ALL their money puting it back into the Economy, which creates and maintains jobs.
But no, lack of respect and ignorance takes over. Open yours eyes, ‘younger’ people!
I am a retired surgeon and a life long independent voter. I have already decided to ration my end of life medical care in the form of a very restrictive HCD (Health Care Directive) and a Durable Power of attorney for Health care in case I can’t make decisions at the end. I have no desire to have a prolonged death from cancer, stroke, or other incurable disease and have left instructions to stop all care when there is little or no hope of return to an independent life. In essence, I am my own “death panel”. The CRUCIAL difference between me and government or hospital panels is that this decision is MINE ALONE and not someone else who doesn’t know or care about me. Others may and should leave instructions to “do everything possible” if this is what they want done. That is their right and I encourage every person over the age of 70 to draw up a HCD. You can get simple forms from your health care provider, draw up your own, hire an attorney or modify some other person’s form. The government should stay out of this. For those of you who don’t know, every health care system incorporates some form of rationing. There are many ways to do this: Don’t invest enough money in hospitals and technology is the easiest way in government run systems; under pay health care providers assuring that there will not be enough to satisfy demand; limiting coverage for patients; excluding people from coverage. There a numerous other ways that are hidden from sight. If health care were truly free to all people it could easily consume vastly more dollars than we now spend, think 40-50% of GDP. Rationing is here to stay, because we it has always been here on one form or another.
Emmanuel is actually one of the most moderate in the “Death loving” bioethicist community…he only changed his mind recently. Daniel Callahan’s “Setting Limits” dates back to 1988, and the New England Journal has been lauding euthanasia from about 1990.
Others have been pushing this deathmaking agenda for thirty years, but few (except for Nat Hentoff and John Paul II) have bothered to see and warn us about the implications of their writings.
The deathmaking has occured in plain sight, with few people objecting.
For example,’sin the 1980′s the Oklahoma City Childrens’ hospital withheld treatment from children with meningomyelocoel if they didn’t meet a mathematic formula. This caused no outcry in the press or the medical journal that published the study at the time..only years later did a black congressman discover most of the kids who got no treatment died (but the NYTimes in the late 1980′s had lots of people backed doctors who persuaded her family to make a “non treatment” on baby Jane Doe; luckily, she lived long enough for her parents to change her mind, and is alive and well, although in a wheelchair.
79. myna:
You’ve got the plot for the next Republican movie. Are you taking your parents to see it? Oh, no! You hid them already . . .
Vivo:
The only way you will erase ignorance is to shoot yourself in the head. Good hunting.
This is no longer about Democrat or Republican for me. From what I’ve seen of this bunch so far, I don’t want those circling in their clown car anywhere near my health care options. So much for change and transparency. I do not trust this administration as far as I can spit. And, no, that ain’t very far. I have an elderly, vital parent who relies on Medicare. Let Congress be on the receiving end of what they wish to dish out to the rest of us and see how they like it. First in line, Specter, Pelosi, Reid and Hoyer. I’ll be happy to be on the “panel” that rations their care.
…replace them with young illegal aliens reliable voting democrats
Reportedly, “illegals” will be counted in the 2010 census.
This means, ta da ! all kinds of gerrymandering/financial allocation etc. decisions will be made as a function of the 20 million (probably a conservative estimate) individuals living in the United States illegally.
They would likely be eligible for Obamacare.
If they fall into Dr. Mengele-Zeke’s specially valued 15-40 age group, they will definitely get better overall health services than grandma & grandpa.
84. carla:
“The only way you will erase ignorance is to shoot yourself in the head. Good hunting.”
I’m a gentleman, ladies go first!
86. tanstaafl:
“Reportedly, “illegals” will be counted in the 2010 census.”
You sound like a happy illegal that will be counted, in the valued 15-40 age group. Rejoice for being eligible for Obamacare!
Thought you may enjoy these regular folks getting their point across about ObamaCare through a catchy, humorous 60 sec video tune. It may be just what the “doctor ordered” . . . It made me LOL !!
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOO641Rplvk
The YouTube “Welcome to Obamaville” video states the following:
Brought to You by
The Mob of
Flag flying; church going; constitution revering; troop supporting; free-market loving; tea toting; gun owning; apple pie eating; freedom fighting patriots.
All Rights Reserved © 2009. EAN T/A NTEMPO
From what I’ve seen of this bunch so far, I don’t want those circling in their clown car anywhere near my health care options.
Well said, Ani. And the music blaring from the clown car–it’s gotta be “Murder by Numbers”, by The Police.
Egalitarian concepts always fail to mention that some are exempt from the draconian impositions of a socialist style government. That means, Obama & other elitist socialists will not have to play by the rules they wish to impose on others. There will always be haves & have nots. All we can do is try to provide the means for the have nots to build or accumulate so they too can be counted among the haves. But taking from Peter to redistribute to Paul fails since eventually, Paul is broke. We have been fighting the war on poverty since the 1960′s. We have spent literally hundreds of millions, no billions, yet we still have the poor. However, America’s poor are defined differently than the poor of the rest of the world. Poor in America is wealthy elsewhere.
And if we continue to deprive our kids of an education that will enable them to build, create, & accumulate, all we will have are a crop of people demanding others make their lives better by giving to them, since they have no capability to accomplish or produce anything of value that would enable them to accumulate.
The government ‘bureaucracy’ is failing America, which is exactly why Americans want less government & especially no government run health care system. The free market is not perfect, but its a lot better than the government market.
How can one tell us a government health care option will increase competition? It will be artificially supported by increasing amounts of taxpayers dollars, after initial huge sums to create it, so it can falsely claim to be cheaper than a free market alternative.
Want “REAL” competition? Then allow the existing 1300 health insurance providers to market their products across state lines or more specifically, nationwide. THAT will cause serious price reductions & offerings of health care plans that provide coverages according to the needs & desires of consumers. Lasik eye surgery proves this. It is privately run, it is not covered by many or even most health insurance plans, yet since its discovery over tens years ago, the commercial availability has driven the price down by over 80% since it was first offered. Real competition did this, not a government bureaucracy or draconian regulations!
Socialists & especially unions want the federal government run plan, because it means more union members (federal employee union members to boot), which means billions more in forced dues collections for unions to exercise even more political power & enjoy those island vacations many union executives enjoy so much.
By refusing common sense changes to how we obtain & use health care & insurance, the socialists can keep claiming only conservative Republicans are blocking reforms because they hate anyone other than themselves. By taking up to $642 billion dollars from Medicare, a plan already facing serious issues in about ten years, all Obama has done is told baby boomer’s who are about to retire &/or collect Medicare, that he plans to kill off as many as possible as quickly as possible. There may be no official plan yet, but the work done so far provides every opportunity & option for the death panels to be in operation w/in hours of the new health care bureaucrats deciding such panels will help them control costs! We are told illegal aliens are not covered. We are told abortions are not covered. Any lawyer will tell you that unless illegal aliens are specifically EXcluded, a good lawyer will make sure they are INcluded. Abortions are covered in H.R. 3200 by allowing bureaucrats to determine which medically reasonable &/or necessary procedures are covered for pregnancy care. That easily means a bureaucrat will say, abortions are both reasonable &/or necessary, so they are included under any circumstances.
The problem with the government run health care concept is, each & every one of the ideas even under consideration, all are vague deliberately so they can do as they wish once a bill is signed, which means, anything will go once they have the regulatory authority to act w/o public input or knowledge until its far too late to do anything about it!
we have only one thing to say about “great leader”
O……One
B……big
A……A$$
M……MISTAKE
A……America
Poor Citizen (19):
Citizen, why don’t you go step directly in front of a speeding truck and then tell us about the experience afterwards? Perhaps during WWII the British should have waited until after Germany invaded to start fighting? After these policies are implemented it will be too late.
This is not, as you say, theory and fantasy. We are reading and listening to their words and watching their actions. Please give me any indication that the Democrats may be planning something other than what we see.
goy (39):
VERY good point. Insurance is supposed to cover rare but predictable risk, such auto accidents and house fires. Medical insurance should, properly, cover things like heart attacks and broken legs, not vacinations and regular checkups.
One more thing…if ACORN does the census…we will have a problem . Illegals will overrun this country and you will pay their bills. All of this , destroying a country, for the sake of a vote for the dems.
So!!!, how do we stop Obama from allowing ACORN, to do the census. (ACORN goes by another name also)..so how do we stop this travesty from being perpetrated on the US???
tanstaafl – so magically when I turn 41 it’s off to the glue factory for me?
Well, at least the Muslim Marxist reveals his true Stalinist nature, and his slavering lust to kill Americans.
No, I call on the exceptionalism that is my god-given birthright as an American to name whoevever I want UNAMERICAN. Thus, these people are unamerican, and indeed, people who want to harm real Americans like myself. And thus, using the easy logic of your movement, they are in sore need of a good killing. Where do I vote for the death panels?
vivo (80):
Speak for yourself, please. For myself, I follow the fourth Commandment.
There’s a big difference between a cultural aberation and officially implementing that aberation in government policy.
“I like Obama but I reject the suggestion that he is an intellectual. He is an activist merely mimicking the mannerisms of an intellectual.”
Thanks for the link and quote, tanstaafl. Summarizes my own thoughts perfectly.
And to Anonymous, thanks for the invite, and glad you appreciated the link.
86. tanstaafl:
..the brown shirts (acorn and company) have already stuffed the ballots.
where do you think the list came from that sent thousands of dead people stinulus cheques, those same dead people voted for o-bum-a
Obama himself does not rebut “rationing” because Obama himself uttered the word himself from him own mouth, something along the lines of that we were going to just have to deal with it..
Uttered it in such a way that it prompted me to immediately begin screaming from the Twitter rooftop months ago that rationing = euthanasia = murder.
He and his Compassion and Choices cronies who openly brag on helping write portions of H.R. 3200 WILL NOT kill my extended family because they (C&C et ilk) utilitarianarily deem my extended family’s Lives as unworthy of further resource expenditure in this Life.
I WILL continue to trump him, them on that.
“Dr. Emanuel thinks we need to stop all this chatter about the worth of the individual. Instead we should focus on communal needs”
I can’t check a news feed these days without being stunned beyond words. That Dr. Emanuel, a JEW, would advocate and promote the very same attitudes that led to Germany’s (read, Hitler’s) T-4 program for the “humane ending of life not worth living” is simply more than I comprehend. “…stop all the chatter about the worth of the individual.”? Well, why stop with elderly? What about Down’s Syndrome adults? People in wheel chairs? Burn Victims? Amputees? How ’bout rounding up and gassing anybody who disagrees with you? I cannot understand why people on the political left fail to connect the dots.
David: There are many ways to do this: Don’t invest enough money in hospitals and technology is the easiest way in government run systems; under pay health care providers assuring that there will not be enough to satisfy demand; limiting coverage for patients; excluding people from coverage. There a numerous other ways that are hidden from sight. If health care were truly free to all people it could easily consume vastly more dollars than we now spend, think 40-50% of GDP. Rationing is here to stay, because we it has always been here on one form or another.
Whether or not your a doctor, this happens to be the most obvious reality in our society. Currently, health care is rationed by health insurance companies, and then, to a lesser degree, the health industry. But good luck getting these retards to comprehend anything so actual. They’re too busy imagining Jerry Bruckheimer-esque action film plots.
Just like Horowitz said, democrats masquerading as liberals and progressive are actually left over fascists of the 60′s. Remember all states that runs by democrats are imploding.
Its all the fault of those ‘greedy’ doctors who order expensive extra tests so they don’t kill their patients by treating the wrong disease. Those moneygrubbers who keep seniors in good health so they can give them regular checkups for the next few decades. Those discriminating specialists who learn a specific medical field or treatment so that a less trained physician won’t overlook a subtle or critical mistake.
Does it say anything when politicians start calling everyone else greedy?
Recently my own brother, an enthusiastic supporer of the President, asked me if I thought it was “right” that our eighty-four-year-old father had recently undergone back surgery. “Couldn’t that money be used somewhere else?” he asked. My reply–”WTF?”–didn’t amuse him.
Dems are for: abortion, sexualisation of young, orgy-porgy, soma tablets, euthanasia, idea that a human is nothing more than a collection of nerve endings, and for all of us to be comfortable numb.
It is the party of the machines as in the Matrix.
We need our ‘Neo’.
Citizens should keep the pressure to make Obama a lame duck president for the next 4 years and keep his cronies away from stealing the 787Billion TARP money and keep his czars away in installing a fascist regime that would eventually destroy this country.
Too many comments miss a couple of crucial points- that the INDIVIDUAL choice each person or family on behalf of a loved one regarding medical care is at stake on this whole health care issue. This translates into person freedom. If I want to blow my life savings on my own medical care OR abstain and possibly die as a result, that should ALWAYS be MY decision, not the governments.
Another point missed that’s even more crucial is that I believe a society can accurately be judged on how they treat their vulnerable members- especially their children, handicapped, and elderly. “Honor thy mother and thy father” means to do that, actually honor them. Have liberals become so narcissistic and youth worshipers that they truly can’t be “bothered” with the burden of their elderly parents? Is that why over 90% of babies with Down’s are aborted- it’s too much of a bother to be “burdened” with the needs of a handicapped child? Is money, power, and beauty really more valuable than truly loving and sacrificing for one’s own family? I would rather have a world filled with “rednecks” who love and look after their own than rich, elite snobs who throw away those lives that are too inconvenient to them.
Someone above pointed out that what’s needed is to find a way to reduce the cost of health care. This is true, and crucial. The problem is that not 1 in a 100 even of those who supposedly study this issue, let alone the average citizen, understands why health care is as expensive as it is.
Never mind the insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, etc; all these things only exist because health care is so expensive that the average person can’t afford an appendectomy w/o assistance. Never mind defensive medicine, tho’ it does its share of increasing costs. No, the real reason for expensive health care is those twin pillars of gov’t regulation of medicine: the FDA and the Medical Practice Acts.
Through these agencies, gov’t takes it upon itself to declare which physicians you may patronize, and which medicines are safe/effective enough to be worth using. The problem with this is: gov’t is not competent to decide who is a competent physician, and which medicines are worth taking.
The FDA and the Medical Practice Acts increase the cost of production of medical care, and restrict the supply. This also serves to enrich those few who choose to bring a medicine to market, or to become a licensed physician. These favored few now often vociferously champion the very gov’t agencies that enrich them (what a surprise), claiming that ‘we need the medical practice acts to protect the public from quacks’ (like there’s no quacks now!) ‘and the FDA to protect the public from dangerous medicines’ (Thalidomide or Vioxx, anyone?).
This is America, not Russia. If I want to go the village idiot to have my appendix out, it should be my right to do so. If I want to buy drugs from a basement chemist, I’ve only myself to blame if it kills me. Abolish the FDA. Repeal the Medical Practice Acts. Watch the availability of health care skyrocket, and the costs plummet. Watch health insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid disappear. I’ll make a third of what I do now because of increased competition, and I’ll be a happier physician, because all my patients will be able to afford their health care, they won’t have to wait weeks to see a specialist (still better than the months it takes in Canada or England!), and their medications will be far more affordable.
Not that I expect too many here to begin to care about the truth of who Dr Emanuel is…a well respected oncologist who has done nothing other than help people who are dying. I can hear it now..oh, you mean he helps them die….no. Taking selective quotes out of context is easy. Much of Emanuel’s work has indeed been about ethics and how the heck does one make a decision …3 people will day if they don’t get the next liver…how do you decide. Does the 80 yr old get it, the 50 yr old alcoholic, or the 25 yr old father of 2? This man has been given awards for IMPROVING end of life care. That does not fit the agenda of this author, however. And really, do none of you think rationing does not exist in health care today???
Sap…you appear to be comfortable with something that rhymes with numb.
Death panels are a brilliant idea. What patient or child of a patient would allow their loved one to be checked into a hospital, only to be killed as part of the healing process? There’s your savings right there. These panels will have limited work to do, because patients will check themselves out before waiting for the system to do it for them. (Both meanings intended!)
May these governmental “thinkers” rot in hell!
108. myna:
Where were you when Bush was spending billions in a stupid war? And the banks were pillaging greedy homebuyers with 0% down mortgages and no income checks?
This is an area the government should stay out of. This is between the patient, his or her doctor and the good lord if you are so inclined.
I recently lost both my parents within 5 months of each other. My father, a physician, died of cancer. He was in charge of his treatment from the day he was diagnosed. He and his personal oncologist treated the cancer in the most practical way possible until it became apparent he was terminal. Then Dad took over the entire process. He was a radiation oncologist by trade so he and cancer were old foes. The day it was apparent that he was hopelessly terminal, he essentially started to shut himself down. He started fasting and reduced his intake of fluids. He knew that cancer is a greedy bastard; Any nourishment you take goes first to support the cancer and the pain. So he knew that the less you ate and drank, the less pain you would have. My Dad took one half of a hydrocodone tablet at night to help him sleep. That was it. He was above all a cerebral man, and when he was awake, he wanted to be mentally all there. I watched my father control his final days in awe of the man. He was, in the end, stoicism personified. I was never more proud to be his son.
My mother, on the other hand, had been dying for well over 20 years, and was never hesitant to tell my sisters and I that fact whenever possible. She had COPD from years of smoking, so when she was diagnosed with it in 1987, well, that was that, she was dying. However, due to modern medicine and her own innate stubbornness, she managed to continue to do yard work, be around for all of her children to have grandchildren, see one her grandchildren become an officer in the U.S.Army and another start college. She watched birds and shot squirrels that invaded her bird feeder. A little over two tears ago, she had a fall and slammed here head against a table. She was helo’d to Pensacola and, miracles of miracles, she survived (I asked her later how was the Helo ride and she said it was the worst damn helicopter ride ever, but the people on it were nice….It was the first and only ‘copter ride Mom ever made, but I digress.) However, she was never the same. The slow fade of old age kicked up quite a few notches. Last December she said that her time was near..we laughed it off, but this time my sisters and I (and her Doctor) weren’t so sure. In February, her lungs started to fail. She was put in the hospital, but she knew this was it. She said she wanted to go home and let hospice take over. Unlike Dad, she took the morphine, and for a few short days, we had our old mom back..combative, opinionated, sarcastic and just plain tough. But she knew. The last time I spoke to her was her last night. It was late and I told her I was going home and would be back in the morning and I would see her then. She looked me square in the eye, and in her most sarcastic voice said “yeah…riighttt…”, then she smiled and looked out the window to enjoy the moonlight, made beautiful to her because the morphine had finally stopped the pain. She knew. She slipped into a coma the next morning and that afternoon she died in my sisters and my arms. It was, for lack of better words, a holy moment for me.
My Dad’s way of dying taught me there can be dignity in death; my Mom’s way showed me that there is a power greater than man when faced with that time.
We don’t need bureacrats to help us die.
Recently my own brother, an enthusiastic supporer of the President, asked me if I thought it was “right” that our eighty-four-year-old father had recently undergone back surgery. “Couldn’t that money be used somewhere else?” he asked. My reply–”WTF?”–didn’t amuse him.
Really, I wouldn’t spend the money on anyone in your family. Obviously, some bad genes there. Good for your brother.
109. Hejsan wrote:
…” the INDIVIDUAL choice each person or family on behalf of a loved one regarding medical care is at stake on this whole health care issue. This translates into personal freedom.”
You betcha. This is why Obama will ultimately fail in his quest to turn the USA into a socialist country. We all (except that 5 percent on the lunatic left) LOVE FREEDOM. Socialism REQUIRES a loss of freedom. Oh sure they lure you with promises of a care free life, but ultimately it is a much less prosperous life for anyone not in the ruling class, and you lose all kinds of liberty.
During the primary, what was outed about Obama was that, since he moved to Chicago, he’s surrounded himself with the worst form of hatemongers, racists, domestic terrorists, slimy socialist deviants as well as criminally corrupt people imaginable.
I mean, far as the eye can see, from the old Playboy building at 999 Michigan, way south to Cominsky Park, east to the Loop and beyond. They’re like gum on the sidewalk. Cockroaches are easier to get rid of.
Post Presidency, Obama’s brought them in under a big progressive/socialist/communist tent of hate and corruption. Czars (ironic title, wouldn’t you say), tax cheats, union goons, sky is falling global warming fanatics and experts in the art of corrupt Chicago politics. Just to give you a scum sample.
And they’ve been thinking hard how to stop this poll dive their taking. I guess desperate creatures perform acts of desperation.
Now Barack has the audacity to politicize your child’s first day of school with their first homework lesson; a paragraph on “how I can help President Obama reach his goals.” (I wonder if he’ll start his talk with the pledge of allegiance). Just kidding. We all know the answer to that one.
From my point of view, Obama was born to be a high ranking comrade in a Communist country. How he ended up our President is a cruel, cruel twist of fate. Maybe if it doesn’t kill us, we’ll be stronger for it.
People say, oh no, Rachel, Obama’s not that bad. You can’t compare him to tyrants of the 20th century like Hitler and Stalin because that’s just not right.
Boys and girls, I think Barack could have taught Joe and the little sign painter with just one testicle a few tricks.
Your President is actively trying to undermine the bedrock of property rights and individual rights upon which this nation was founded.
Further, a nation dedicated to equal justice under the law; the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; and government of, by, and for the people.
Obama’s like a German sub captain angling in for the kill. Herr Obama recently received a medal from planned parenthood for raising the monthly rate of unborn kills to 125,000.
And they have no compunction to go from signing an executive order to optimize the efficiency of baby butcher shops, to heading for the nearest church or synagogue. When Obama or his minions plead his socialist cases in churches, (socialized medicine this time around) he’s skating on very thin ice with regard to separation of church and state. But this group of miscreants do have nerve.
When Obama wants to be broadcast a subtle, nuanced, propaganda message in every grammar school in America, he follows in the footsteps of the most despicable leaders of communist countries from the early 1930′s to the present. If I were a parent, I’d say, Barack baby, you just crossed the line.
I know I’m changing subjects, but what in the world is Barack thinking when day in and day out he disparages our country in one way or another. The subtle bad mouthing of the pioneering spirit, the evils of manifest destiny, the put downs of everything uniquely American. The fact that he can’t stop spending your tax dollars is another subject for another evening.
When all is said and done, though, frankly, I’ve had enough.
If I hear Barack’s bad mouthed this country while on foreign soil one more time; apologized for the United States, the greatest country on earth, I feel like I’ll explode.
How in heaven did we elect a creep with such a blatant anti-American mindset? And why do we accept it so blithely day in and day out?
Is there not an honest newspaper man alive?
Do you realize the significance of Obama nominating a woman to the supreme court who repeats and repeats a disgraceful stereotype; that one racial group of people (in this case white males) are inherently, intellectually inferior to hispanic women.
What if Justice Roberts, during his televised congressional committee questioning said that he thought Hispanic females were intellectually inferior to white males?
The newspapers would have had a field day, lynching Judge Roberts with reams of newsprint filled with words calling for his rejection.
The double standard in this country shakes its very foundation.
As a nation, how much longer are we going to put up with this crap? I call it crap because the events of the past 8 months just don’t pass the smell test. In my humble opinion we have people in power who should be taken away.
Led out of the White House on a day certain with average Americans kicking them in the butt to speed up the whole process. I do like the visual.
One more thought and then I’m done.
I’m getting more than a little fed up with the supercilious back and forth arguments between the resident goose steppers and the rest of you thoughtful patriots.
These Barack psychofants are worthless and useless. They’re ignorant. They’re dumb. They’re just in here to waste our time.
Like mosquitoes, they’re easy to swat. But unlike mosquitoes they have no sting. These Stalinist worshipers are different from Hitler because these parasites have no balls. But I guess, like snakes in the grass, they’re difficult to ignore. Pathetic losers. Of course, I’m talking about Moho and Vivo. Poster children for the witless protection program.
MOHO/VIVO
I sincerely hope that you two (ok, ok, 1.7) aren’t intimate. There are more than enough creepy crawlees under the rock. If you represent the best and the brightest, then NASA, we have a problem. Rather then reamining whining leeches, consider getting a job.
Yes, creepy indeed and they can be as stupid as can be. Democrats masquerading as liberals and progressives are actually fascists from the 60′s and a cancer to the society. These people has destroyed black and hispanic families for decade. Who runs the inner cities of America? Democrats.
Last time I checked Obama still running these stupid wars. One more thing Barney Frank are the one pressuring the banks to give away housing to unqualified people. Don’t be a moron. Read.
Training and recruitment for psychologists, social workers, counselors, substance abuse counselors, and thanatologists (!) to join the death panel process has already started. I’m a licensed psychologist and I received materials from continuing education offered by:
cmieducation.org for a course called End of Issues. The instructor, Hanno Kirk, was unwise enough to post the power points he’ll be using as well the post-test. It doesn’t take a Ph.D. to read this material and recognize it for what it is: A gross, immoral intrusion into the personal lives of individuals and families, with a decidely “cost-effective” outcome subtext. It’s like the skeleton of the VA pamphet that steers the reader toward the result desired, i.e., propaganda.The fact that the “professionals” trained in this undertaking (pun alert) will be paid to assist people they don’t even know and love to make this most personal decision is equally disturbing. I urge anyone who reads this to read this course material for themselves and come to your own conclusions.
Oh wait let us not forget the american indians who got the shortest stick in the deal. Who was the first president that removed indians from their home that lead to thousands died? Andrew Jackson a democrat. Who interned the Japanese americans in 1942? FDR a democrat. Who runs the south during the civil right movement? Democrats.
#114 ER White:
Your story made me leak just a little around the area of the eyes. It put me in mind of watching my mother die. I would add to what you said in one way; “We don’t need bureacrats to help us die.” As you clearly know “character” is the only real help.
Yes, it is good to let the opposition talk freely so they can show your audience who they really are, I laugh my head off whenever I hear it on thr radio or TV. I am 70 and they are not taking me out that easy.
This calls for a pilot program. Start with Congress, the President and his wife, and all the political appointees of this administration. Everyone over 40 has led a “completed life”. They get NO medical care but for pain medication and a free coupon for assisted suicide. They are not to be permitted to purchase any additional treatment since this is a pilot program to see how ordinary people would fare under such a system.
If we can dispense with enough of these bums we can call the program a success and terminate it since it will have served its purpose.
#116 MOHO:For you to complain of other’s bad genes,is outrageously hypocritical;once the death panels are instituted,they’ll do you for incurable tertiary syphillis,coprophagy(eating your own mojones,and generally wasting oxygen.
#118CARLA:Did you know that “MOHO”-MO-HO stands for MY mother was a Ho, and all I got was a dose of the clap? as for the viviot troll,well, like MOHO,he’s starting to come unglued,as their pathetic boob of a president continues to destroy his presidency,by refusing to read his teleprompter.
Wasn’t it clever of Dr. Mengele to return,… re-incarnated into a Jew?
Catholic bishops question gov’t health care
Bishop Walker Nickless of Sioux City, Iowa, warned that health care should not be subject to “federal monopolization.” He wrote “… the proper role of government is to regulate the private sector in order to foster healthy competition and curtail abuses. Therefore any legislation that undermines the viability of the private sector is suspect.”
Bishop Thomas Doran of Rockford, Ill., wrote that health care should be thought of “as more of a market than a system.” He added: “Our federal bureaucracy is a vast wasteland strewn with the carcasses of absurd federal programs which proved infinitely worse than the problems they were established to correct.”
Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput wrote that “a proper government role in solving the health-care crisis does not necessarily demand a national public plan, run or supervised by government authorities. Real health-care reform need not automatically translate into federal programming.”
Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo, N.D., cited the danger of thinking “the national government is the sole instrument of the common good.”
(Above quotes from article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/05/AR2009090502076_2.html?hpid=sec-religion
Note from AdrianS:
The term “collective good” is a term referenced by the communists.
The term “for the benefit of the free citizens severally and uniquely” is an American term.
Moho, Don’t trash health care insurance companies just because you got turned away at your local hospital.After all a hospital is for HUMANS,not rabid Obama lapdogs!If you want health care,consult your local veterinarian.
118. carla:
“There are more than enough creepy crawlees under the rock.”
Better look under your sheets tonight . . . they’ll be there.
Jennifer Rubin, you owe Sarah Palin an apology.
Logan’s Run (1976)
In the 23rd century, the survivors of a holocaust now lives within a domed city that is sealed off from the outside world. In the domed city, men and women live in a society where you can only live until you are 30-years old (due to population control and limited resources), the people have two choices: They can either take part in a extermination ceremony called “Carousel” where they are promised of being reborn or they can go on the run and escape to outside the domed city. Logan 5 is a Sandman, a elite policeman whose job is terminate all “Runners” who refuse to be exterminated on Carousel and escape to outside the city. When Logan finds a symbol, the computer that controls all life in the city, gives Logan a undercover assignment to find and destroy a mysterious place called Sanctuary by posing as a runner, by removing the last four years of his life from his life crystal. Now on the run himself, and hunted by his partner and best friend Francis 7, Logan and a woman named Jessica 6 working for a underground resistance group that are helping all Runners search for Sanctuary escapes from the domed city and find themselves in a devastated Washington D.C, where Logan and Jessica discover another world and find there is much to live for and Logan begins to question the system. Written by Daniel Williamson
I’m getting me some runnin shoes……
If we are lucky, and if everybody sends Michael Moore a twinky, in a short time we will be rid of this pestilence.