Obama’s Energy Lunacy
Until the enlightened Age of Obama, the free enterprise system was pretty easy for manufacturers to understand. Identify a market, build a product that market wants to buy at a price they’re willing to pay, and rake in the profits. Unfortunately for corporate America and the taxpayer, the proverbial monkey wrench has been thrown into the works by Mr. Obama and his economic advisors — whose only advice seems to be to wreck the economy by spending as much money as possible.
I’ve been following the dim fortunes of the Chevy Volt for some time (here, here, here, here, and here). The Volt is an electric pseudo-hybrid compact with a $41,000 manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) — currently selling for as much as $65,000. To “incentivize” the Volt, the Obama administration is providing a $7,500 tax rebate for each sale, a tax rebate it is planning to turn into a direct, point-of-sale rebate in the near future. After all, cash for clunkers was so economically stimulating, this gesture should make Volt sales explode. (Considering the tendency of lithium-ion batteries to do, more or less, just that, this may not be the most encouraging analogy.)
The Volt’s abysmal all-electric range is supplemented by a weak gasoline engine that requires premium fuel. Charging requires up to 12 hours, but may be halved for an additional $2,000 (installation costs not included) for a special 220V home “fast charger.” Depending on the kind and quality of home wiring, installation costs may be daunting. The charger draws so many amps that considerable rewiring may be required, and proud Volt owners may not be able to use any other high-amp appliances (vacuum cleaners, microwave ovens) while their Volt is charging. Remember that the Volt’s only potential claim to real-world practicality — apart from green street cred — is its high-tech electric drive system which promises unlimited gasoline-free miles. Consider that there is no actual charging infrastructure out there in the real world — not that this will matter in parts of the country that experience actual winter. Cold has the unfortunate effect of rapidly draining and even disabling batteries.
The fictional GM executive wasn’t kidding. Volt sales volume is abysmal, and while GM won’t admit it, even at $41,000 MSRP it is almost certainly losing money on every car. In a genuinely free market, this should not be surprising. After all, for something between $33,500 and $57,500 (that’s minus the $7500 tax rebate), plus more than $2,000 for a charger (installation not included), anyone can be the proud owner of a car that will likely get no better mileage than many conventional vehicles which cost tens of thousands of dollars less. Who could resist that siren song? As it turns out, just about everyone.
Who are the proud Volt owners? Young first-time car buyers? No. Young families? Unlikely. Buyers of limited means? Certainly not. The premium prices being forked over suggest that Volts are the exclusive province of green types and/or the wealthy who can afford as much as $65,000 for a novelty car with no advantage over conventional vehicles available at a fraction of the price.
Pre-Obama businessmen would likely think GM’s decision to put the Volt into production is sheer lunacy, and they would be right. It would surely seem to them that in trying to recover from bankruptcy, GM is plunging headfirst back into bankruptcy. Why else would it build a car featuring not-ready-for-prime-time technology, a car with a tiny to all-but-non-existent potential market? Surely they would consider this to be a shocking, inexplicable display of ignorance or of contempt for the principles of free enterprise? Of course — unless the principles no longer apply.
Just four years from now, Mr. Obama has mandated a CAFE average of 35.5 MPG for all manufacturers. The current average achieved is 22.2 MPG. It is not possible, with current technology, to say nothing of customer preferences, to reach this absurd goal. Only the production and sale of huge numbers of “advanced technology” vehicles will allow GM to avoid huge fines for failing to engineer technologically ignorant wishful thinking.
In GM, taxpayers have a corporation partially owned by the government of Barack Obama. GM management surely understands the wishes of Mr. Obama and his bureaucrats, and the consequences for ignoring them, despite Obamaite claims to have no role or influence in daily operations. What else explains a company trying to recover from bankruptcy by making, at great cost, a product with no real market that can only succeed in the long term with the development of a nationwide charging infrastructure that no one is lining up to build? It seems clear that one power most satisfying for the Obama administration is the ability to pick winners and losers, to award friends and punish enemies. Why not also assume the power to mandate and make manifest markets where none previously existed?
Why didn’t Republicans go after the $7500 “rebate” in the last budget deal? Oh, right….the Dems would’ve whined how “the poor” can’t buy a stripped down $41K car without it.
An outstanding idea.
“but taking money out of a left pocket only to transfer it to the right might embarrass even Timothy Geithner or Ben Bernanke.”
No it won’t.
Agreed – proven time and time again.
Exactly. This pretty much describes standard operating procedure at the Federal Reserve.
The Volt fiasco is an excellent demonstration of the ruin that ensues when government dictates to the productive sector. In time, it will make the Moskvitch and Yugo look like sensible cars.
Before the Obamunist Interregnum, GM was producing decent small cars, albeit at prices most people found somewhat daunting. They weren’t world-beaters; certainly nothing to challenge a Lexus for quality or a Mercedes for performance. But they held together reasonably well and performed about as well as American economy cars have usually done.
Now that retaining Washington’s benevolence and beneficence is at the top of GM’s list of corporate priorities, we can see the effects all too clearly. It’s a lesson to the nation in block letters. FLAMING block letters, in 1000-point type.
GM should have been allowed to go bankrupt. There would have been a period of dislocation, during which many thousands of workers would have been on relief, but it would have ended as the liberated assets were acquired by other firms and put back to work under rationalized labor agreements. Now that possibility has been foreclosed.
Let’s hope America draws the moral in November 2012.
“The Volt fiasco is an excellent demonstration of the ruin that ensues when government dictates to the productive sector.”
The Volt was on the drawing board and was part of GM’s production plans many years before Obama took office.
its still a fiasco, wait until they start catching fire(oh yeh, they already have) and the big fun is going to come about 3 years from now when the batteries stop taking a charge. The owner will go to the dealer to see how much it will be to replace the battery…..im figuring about 10 grand…………hehehe…..liberals are such fun.
Yes.
In response to several decades of this same irrational push for “green” technology, whether it actually works or not.
Absent government edicts (Obama or not), the Volt would never have gotten TO the drawing board.
The Volt is just a bad car. And Obama and GM would rather die than admit that. And if you’re telling me that the government will have to buy 600,000 of these lemons just to keep the production lines open, and then stick the American taxpayer with the enormous bill, that is just criminal. Don’t politicians who force the government to buy an inferior product just to help a specific manufacturer usually go to jail? And where is the Main Stream Media in all of this (as if I didn’t know)? Why aren’t they asking why we should pay enormous costs for a car that can barely function properly? And could you just see an FBI agent driving a Chevy Volt in a high-speed pursuit of a criminal? Now THAT would be something worthy of a Saturday Night Live skit if it wasn’t so tragic. This is nothing more than a government subsidy for a major union (the UAW) that usually votes Democratic. And we have not even talked about the increased energy costs the poor saps who buy these cars will have to pay. Who cares if it’s a disaster for the country and adds to our deficit? Nope, this is criminal and should be investigated by Congress.
“And could you just see an FBI agent driving a Chevy Volt in a high-speed pursuit of a criminal?”
That won’t happen, because like with Obamacare, there will be thousands of waivers given to special employees and departments. There will be so many Volts available, the lowest of the low government employees will be given one. After all, General Motors was promised an order of 600,000 vehicles. They’ll just give them to stock boys, clerks, floor sweepers, etc.
Let us imagine for a while that the Chevy Volt actually worked and was popular. What would happen? Every night thousands of people would plug thier cars in to recharge when an already overloaded grid uses this time for daily maintenace on thier plants. More coal fired plants would have to be brought on line. Charging a battery is not a one to one ratio of energy in and out there are signifigant losses in heat. Also there is line loss, transformer loss etc. We use gasoline because once you put it in the tank there is no appreacable loss and there is a tremendous amount of energy in a small package.
The only way any electric vehicle will ever make sense is when we repeal the first law of thermodynamics, something not likely to happen, but until then it is doomed to failure.
Yep.
Let’s see: “In 2008, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 11,040 kWh, an average of 920 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per month” (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3). That’s 39×10^9 Joules per month.
Let’s assume a typical driver drives 1000 miles per month (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_national_average_of_miles_each_American_driver_drives_per_year)
From the previous analysis, a 10 gallon tank of gasoline yields 1.32x 10^9 Joules for 300 miles (30 mpg). So I’ll fill up 3x per month for a total energy usage of 4×10^9 Joules per month. Let’s assume a similar efficiency for an electric auto (if the batteries are smaller, you just fill up more often) and that each household has two cars (on the average). So we need 8×10^9 Joules per month – which is about 20% of a household’s electricity usage.
So, if everybody converts to electric cars, the electricity demand goes up 20% at a minimum (no matter whether they recharge at home, at work, or at a “filling” station.)
> Every night thousands of people would plug thier cars in to recharge
> when an already overloaded grid uses this time for daily maintenace [sic]
> on thier [sic] plants
“According to a recent U.S. Department of Energy study, there is so much
excess energy on the U.S. grid nightly that if every light-duty car and
truck in America today used plug-in hybrid technology, 73 percent of
them could be plugged in and “fueled” without constructing a single
new power plant. ”
> Charging a battery is not a one to one ratio of energy in and out there
> are signifigant [sic] losses in heat.
Comparing the losses in charging an EV vs the losses and inefficiencies
in ICE is laughable.
“… people … should remember that the 2009 report card on the American infrastructure gives the existing U.S. grid a near failing grade of D+.”
V. Smil, in: American Scientist
(http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/2011/3/global-energy-the-latest-infatuations/1)
If you’re talking about the 2009 report card @ http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/fact-sheet/energy, my comment is that this is subjective and concerns many factors that have nothing to do with the short-term limited adoption of electrically powered vehicles. Living in a state where the average price of electricity is about 9 cents per kWh, I’m not so concerned about the grid’s lack of long-distance sharing capacity. Nor am I particularly excited about the idea of helping to drive down wholesale prices in other areas because those areas don’t want power plants in their back yard. But with respect to the topic at hand, capacity is simply not an issue at the times when most EV owners would be charging their cars.
Please explain your “reasoning”. Why do you support the (re)Volt? What possible advantage does it provide? How is it more “green”?
Thank you.
Oblamer has promised us that energy costs, electricty especially, will necessarily skyrocket under his plan to “bankrupt the coal industry”.
Despite his idiotic claims for green energy, over 60% of our electricity is from coal fired generating plants. Eventually that recharge will cost more and more as generating costs do skyrocket under the great energy plan of the great Oblamer.
Here’s an excerpt from an engineering report, widely distributed throughout the internet about the Tesla vs. the Corvette:
———————————–
“However, the Tesla has to take a little more energy from the receptacle because the charging, storing, and discharging of electricity in the battery experiences energy losses. These losses are about 15% of the electric energy taken from the receptacle and will not be available at the wheels. The Tesla owner will, therefore, pay 1.15 times as much to get the same energy to the wheels as the Corvette or 211 MJ per 100 miles. Electric energy is priced in the form of dollar per kilowatt hour or $ /kWh. The average price of electricity in the US is .09/kWh. The factor for converting energy measured in MJ to energy measured in kWh is 0.2778 kWh/MJ.”
——————————
In the concluding paragraphs, there are some interesting omissions. That is to say that someone arbitrarily and carelessly omitted sentences to leave the conclusions lacking, when clearly they were there in the first place, giving the energy win to the Corvette.
http://electricvehiclechargingstations.org/energy-costs-of-driving-electric-cars/
Read for yourself:
—————————
“To drive 100 miles, the Tesla will consume 58.6 kWh of electricity at a cost of .28. The Corvette will consume 4 gallons of gasoline at a cost of . Now we know that the Tesla will save about per 100 miles or ,000 over 100,000 miles.
The Tesla will cost 0,000. The Corvette is priced from ,000 to ,000. Guess who gets the square deal with the roar of the engine as a free bonus.”
——————
The one thing this argument takes into account is a direct correlation of the total energy needed, its cost and the going rate for the average cost of a kilowatt/hour (kWh) and the omissions are clearly intended to avoid awarding the argument to the gasoline-powered car.
So, I “ran the numbers” OK? And this particular article is all over the “green” blogosphere, used by the greens to bolster their argument that coal-powered cars are more “green” and more “efficient”. But high school math shows otherwise.
And the omissions in the conclusions are very curious.
Well ok But nobody buys a corvette or tesla for gas mileage marginal cost savings. If you can buy either one you are not worried about that.
I am mustang fan. Different ball game for sport cars. But electrics have acceleration like nothing else. That is what most drivers want in this type of vehicle. Top speed less important that quick response. Outside of a track you are never going to get near top speed.
So tesla makes a nice niche product from what I can gather. Have not driven one.
Not a fair comparison. The real challenge is get me to work and grocery in a car I really like driving with minimal hassle and decent fuel and maintainence cost. A family friendly utility vehicle pure electric is nonexistant in the US. Might be on the horizon but not there yet.
So government should not concentrate on big auto as much as they have. Better to give grants to promising technology. Matching grants are best. Show me a good idea you have already financed through venture capitol in stage one planning and we can kick in x over your investment. Some of those ideas might fail or produce.
Spindok
This is the same thinking as wind farms saving the planet. Liberals and progressives are always whining about green this and green that and that wind farms in Kansas are the answer. Let them answer this…. How is the power generated by the wind farm in Kansas going to help someone in Virginia? Ever heard of a transmission line? These large lines are the way that electricity is “transmitted” from the generating source to a sub station to your home. But wait, the “green” liberals say we cant cut down a tree to build the transmission line. Maybe the way our government works, the American taxpayer could pay for them to bury 1000 miles of cable! What a joke. Sorry to get off subject.
Two comments: I think the Chevy Volt may be a good collectors item as one of the first (albeit a failure).
I also like Progressives plans for increasing the gas mileage of cars by decree. Screw Physics and Reality. Sadly most of the populace is too ignorant to know the difference.
“I also like Progressives plans for increasing the gas mileage of cars by decree. Screw Physics and Reality. Sadly most of the populace is too ignorant to know the difference.”
Back around mid 1990s, California legislators tried to legislate creativity and invention by passing a law that by 2000 all vehicles sold in California would generate zero emissions. They thought that if it was not possible in gasoline vehicles, then they could force the car dealers to push electric vehicles. No one wanted to buy the electrics and the engineers could not invent zero emission technology for gasoline engines. The legislators had to back off. Typical idiot Californians.
Ya ever rub a piece of American cheese in your hair to get static electricity? It’s just as productive as Obama’s energy policy.
And tastier too.
…. …. No, No, No. …. The Chevy Volt is brilliant. …. Volt is an INTERIM step in eliminating both petroleum (gasoline) and coal (electric) consumption for automobiles.
The total savings will be realized when we all convert to Pedal Cars. …. Available in Child and Adult sizes.
Would that pedal car be a step up from the Flintstone mobile or just a competitor?
It will never be allowed – can you imagine what would happen today after Fred’s order of Bronto-Burgers tipped the car over?
Obie Jihad Mao will certainly be pulled in a rickshaw powered by white tea party republicans.
It should have been widely understood that people would not willingly pay BMW prices for a Chevy compact. Understood by all but true believers, of course. What Obama is proposing is creation of an artificial, guaranteed market for what would otherwise find few customers.
What’s being attempted is a radical reworking of a major sector of our economy by fiat. (No, not the car brand, though a government fleet of Fiat 850s isn’t inconceivable.) Real transformations occur incrementally, with technology responding to market demands. One has to wonder why a more realistic alternative isn’t being broached – moving to natural gas powered vehicles. Manufacturers would be able to provide cars of the kind buyers desire at reasonable prices, the fuel is readily available domestically (if only the government weren’t interfering), and providing that fuel to the customer will not require a complete reworking of the delivery infrastructure.
This is worth a close read. Proof of redistribution of wealth scheme…
Hard Proof Green Scam: “Climate finance is a tool to realize the world we want to create; it’s not just about the money, it’s about people and societies enjoying security, justice and freedom from poverty.”
Link: http://wwwtwosetsofbooks.blogspot.com/2011/04/bombshell-hard-proof-green-scam-climate.htm
this is more evidence to show just what an idiot this man is and how out of touch he is. God save us from Obama ideas and Lord, please help us get him out of the white house.
You are either a troll, or just ignorant. Also, the chevy volt is not only battery powered, it has a gas engine that charges the batteries, however I agree that the car is a piece of shit, and a waste of the taxpayers money, it is nothing more then a final attempt to purge the water from the sinking ship that is GM, an attempt that will no doubt fail. Personally, I drive a diesel which gets about 50 mpg highway, and is not stupid looking like a prius.
You’re getting ripped off too friend. Diesel costs 20% more than regular gas….and it used to be that diesel was a dime more than a bucket of swamp piss…they used to burn it off in the old days…so how are you staying ahead of the game?
Plus…they sound like dead cows moaning for a horny mate. Supercharged or not….they’re loud, smelly, foul polluting machines that leave a smoke trail larger than an old DC8. So unless you’re into Ford 650′s…..they don’t suit any real needs…except to show that their average driver has hairy armpits and a “tat” of “MOM”.
That’s why we put them into tractor trailers.
Didn’t we have an all electric car in the late 1920′s or early 1930′s? What happened to it? Who made it? What was the technology then? I seem to remember pictures of one with that characteristic high, square-backed, profile…..and painted black.
And, I think I actually saw an old one which belonged to a friend of my mother’s (I’m 79)…when I was a child.
She told the story of her friend, Mrs Skinner, being alarmed when asked to “pull over”, and the cop smiled and asked her “…if it could be for sale?”.
Nothing new under the sun.
Back then, Exide was one of the manufacturers of batteries for vehicle applications. These were primarily lead-acid batteries that required good maintenance to extend life. Weekly watering and equalization charges were a must. Otherwise charging must be kept to a minimum. Life was only approximately 5 years and being manufactured of lead were extremely heavy. That’s why they were more suited for fleet applications such as milk and ice delivery trucks, or even buses. In the 80s and 90s there was a push on to use latest technology, high power lead-acid batteries in electric vehicle applications, but more exotic and expensive batteries were found to be more suitable. Today, many golf carts still use lead acid battery technology, as do some mining vehicle and fork lift trucks in warehouses.
So let me get this straight. NOBODY wants the car, they can’t sell a one of them. But they’re going for $24,000 over MSRP? Does anyone comprehend the disconnect here? *crickets chirping*
Let’s let the free market decide, there should be no government involvement in people’s transortation choices. By God, that’s how all the roads, highways, and Interstates got here so that a we can use our free-choice vehicles. Oh wait…. *crickets chirping*
It’s only “going” for $24K over invoice to well-heeled country-club Dems who just have to have one to show how “green” they are.
After they’ve bought it, it will sit in the garage while they drive the Lexus where they actually need to go.
Oh, and BTW, the interstate highway system was originally designed to facilitate movement of men and materiel’ for the military in time of war, with its use by civilian transportation (commercial trucks, buses, private cars) being seen mainly as a bonus by the Truman and Eisenhower Administrations, who actually planned and built it.
If you are determined to claim that “government does everything better” with that as a case in point, you might want to consider that “government” employed private contractors to actually build it.
You also might want to send a Thank You note to the people who worked with the Department of Transportation (created by Truman in 1949) and the contractors to design it.
Namely, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
cheers
eon
If the MSRP is $24K less than the price being had by the dealer, then what possible difference does it make whether it’s country club Democrats or homeless people having sold their food stamps at a discount for cash who are buying it at that price? Something is, by definition, worth what a willing buyer will pay. To say that “nobody’s buying them and they’re selling for over half again the MSRP” reminds of of the statement attributed to Yogi Berra regarding the restaurant that “nobody goes to anymore, it’s too crowded.”
Where did I claim everything is done better by government? That would be as brain dead as “nothing should be done by government.” And of course private contractors built the interstate system but taxes (or bonds paid for by taxes and use fees) pay for roads, highways, and the interstate both its construction and its maintenance.
America has evolved from political science to political engineering. The sole Raison d’être of the Chevy Volt is climate change, the pogrom against carbon combustion. This chemical reaction is the bed rock of the Industrial Revolution, the foundation of our modern energy intensive society. There is no economical substitute; there will be none in this century.
In the new car, we see the dawn of our future, and the fulfillment of Obama’s prophecy, that under his policies, the cost of energy will skyrocket. The million results of his policy will collapse our economy.
Until we, as a nation, form and accept a unified energy policy, no bright teen, with an aptitude for math and science, should consider energy engineering as a profession. The truths you learn will be a lethal cancer on your career, as technology is dominated by “isms”. This is the real cost of a Volt.
We must choose; there is very little time left to choose.
Ah. I can hardly wait for the death phase where Chevy Volts are left abandoned along side the road. ” Look! Just beyond the fence in that weedy field. There ‘s one of those rusty old Russian tractors.
The problem is easily solved by mandating that the Federal fleet be all Volts. I will allow an exemption for the President’s limo.
Postal routes could be shortened, allowing the hiring of many more postal workers whose wages will wildly stimulate demand and drive the economic recovery.
What, you don’t believe in stimulus?
When the law enforcement fleet is all replaced by Chevy Volts, won’t the government, IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC SAFETY, need to restrict the gas tanks on all vehicles to ONE gallon, so that the criminals can’t outrun the police? Tail, meet dog.
Obama’s plug in Edsel!
It is worse than an Edsel! It takes 20 hours of charging at 110 volt or 8 hours at 220 volt. The batteries do not operate well at cold temperatures so in the winter the range will be less especially in very cold areas!
I believe we have a candidate for thread-winner.
richb313
“The only way any electric vehicle will ever make sense is when we repeal the first law of thermodynamics, something not likely to happen, but until then it is doomed to failure.”
I expect the Obama team is hard at work crafting language that will give the impression that this has in fact been accomplished – they’ll roll it out in 2012.
The volt is what you get when you allow politicians to dictate to the automobile industry their political aspirations. The electric car is the creation of irrational ignorant people. If you ask any non-biased engineer about the efficiency of electric cars they will tell you they are not efficient. To start electricity must be generated with fossil fuels so we are not improving emissions. Secondly there is as much as 20 percent loss of efficiency in transmitting electricity to your home where you charge your car. Hybrid and solar production of electricity at home may have some potential for commuter vehicles. I say let the market determine the viability of more efficient vehicles. There have been many predictions by pundits in the past that were completely wrong about supposed future events. There are as many or more scientists that believe the changes we are seeing in the climate are just variations similar to variations we have seen in the past. We should approach our energy problem with the idea that many solutions will probably be necessary to solve the big picture. Above all the solutions should be driven by science and economics not by politicians.
Hmm. The market would seem to disagree. Either that or there’s a terrific arbitrage opportunity available – I can commute much more cheaply in a Volt than in a vehicle that is gasoline powered only and has otherwise similar characteristics with respect to drag coefficient, rolling resistance, etc.
The market? Are you serious? You are saying that “the market” finds the Volt to be a viable exercise? How about “the market” is made up of auto aficionados, wealthy green-lovers, holier-than-thou climate warriors or a combination of all three. The payment alone on a Volt is ridiculous and “the market” is showing that 1200 units sold in four months is not a business success.
You, sir, would believe that Christopher Columbus would’ve gotten to the new world in a steamship or an airplane if but Queen Isabella had thrown enough money at him. Technology finds its use when many things in combination happen to make a viable solution. Sure, if there was no more oil, the world would be stuck with electric cars. But somehow, I doubt even a lack of oil would cause that to come about. I strongly suggest that you watch “Connections” with James Burke (All three series) to get a better grasp on how technology arrives in its own time. Yes, it takes brainpower but simply throwing money at things doesn’t make them come about. You are ignoring the laws of cause and effect.
The Volt is an expensive parlor affectation. Something for people to show off and be curious about. Electric cars are incredibly impractical for all the previously stated reasons. They lack, above all else, versatility. But it’s not like a PC, where, once manufactured, people will find more use for it. And it’s not a “Mac vs. PC” argument either. One technology is clearly better than the other. It’s had over 100 years to evolve and become incredibly useful. The electric car? It’s been tried repeatedly for over a century now and they just cannot match the internal combustion engine for usability.
What the government is doing is trying to force the market to accept an impractical, uneconomical, expensive-to-produce machine through the socialist manipulations of the market. In other words, offering a carrot in the form of tax breaks and “buyer incetives” (AKA “bribes”) to get people to buy them who would otherwise not. If it was a better mousetrap, the world would be beating a path to its door. The world is not. It is essentially ignoring it. It is not in demand. People, save for the 0.0000005% who just absolutely have to have one, really aren’t interested.
If the Volt was able to go 400 miles on one charge, then there would be reason to consider it a viable useful alternative but it still loses in the energy conversion game. Total watts lost from mining, transporting and burning the coal to power the generators to then charge the car vs. the cost of drilling, transporting, refining and distributing oil is huge. The heat lost due to burning fuels is a given but since there’s no way to get that energy back, it is only considered in the efficiency of the engine. Sure, batteries to motor is more efficient but…it’s nowhere near ready yet to replace or even supplement fuel burning vehicles. The total energy expended in charging the bank of batteries in the Volt is astronomical.
This Utopian dream of trying to force Utopia to get here is ridiculous. It’s like saying, “I want to be a millionaire” and then waiting for someone to shower me with money while I don’t do so much as buy a lottery ticket. It’s right there with people who think unicorns are real and that man is “responsible” for everything that happens on Earth that’s bad.
Ever seen a horse kill its own young? Or even *gasp* a Polar Bear do it? People scream bloody murder when it happens and swear that it’s because it must be the fault of humanity. Your argument in favor of electric cars is just as shallow. “We need them” is basically all you’re saying and your knowledge base and experience in physics is sorely lacking.
Seven straight paragraphs of obtuseness and complete missing of the point. If it’s cheaper to use the Volt than an equivalent (same CdA, same rolling resistance) ICE only car (and for some cases, including mine, this is beyond argument), then either the it’s using less energy or the equivalent amount of energy from a power station costs less, unless, of course, you’re arguing that the government is subsidizing electricity to a greater extent than gasoline.
If it’s the former, then “case closed” on efficiency (well to wheel). Knowing the values of the rolling resistance, CdA, and weight of the Volt, it isn’t this. If the latter, then what market mechanism is causing it?
As to the refinement of the ICE, sure. So what? When Saudi Arabia projects it may get to matching its peak production by 2015 (and keeping MUCH more of its oil at home), China, India, etc. gearing up for massive increases in personal transportation, the market will certainly force the adoption of something different. It would be nice to see the transition early enough to make it as painless as possible. And if your response is “drill baby drill” and you think that that, as good an idea as it may be, will solve our problem you are too clueless for me to waste keystrokes on.
Do your unicorns have golden wings or silver? In any case, have fun in your land of equality and perfection.
So, you don’t have an answer I guess?
No, I answered your pedantic response with equality. You failed to comprehend my point and simply are stating that I missed your point, which apparently is that I’m mathematically inept and also lacking in cohesive debate skills.
You did not read the article which I posted a link to in two places on this thread. That much is clear. The writer of which, by the way, is a staunch proponent of the AGW myth but does a pretty good analysis of the Tesla vs. the Corvette. Dollar for dollar, comparing the two, the Tesla loses on all counts.
Apparently that was lost on you.
I won’t further insult you by slowly spelling things out to you as you would no doubt miss that as well. You have made up your mind that I’m a dull-witted imbecile so, really, what’s the point? I tried a coherent argument with you that you say was “obtuse”. Well, I guess that pretty much sums up the whole exchange. I did try to satisfy your craving to “run the numbers” which is a folksy way of saying “do the math” but apparently, that was also lost on you when I provided links to someone who had actually done so.
So therefore it’s a moot argument. You have your mind made up and I do too. We will not agree. Why waste any more of our time? You go your way, continue to ignore reality while thinking you’re the smartest guy in the room and have a nice day.
The Volt is not going to be the Volkswagen of the future. It costs too much to build, too much to buy, too much to maintain, and it will never do in a Midwest winter. Even diesels fail us in the winter if the fuel gels. Keeping the engine warm is just an inconvenience and another cost.
Actually, about 20 years ago you could get a very reasonably priced internal combustion engine vehicle that got great mileage. I owned one: a ‘Chevy’ Sprint that got 50 mpg combined highway and city driving. That’s actual, not estimated. We were over 100,000 miles and going strong with no mechanical problems when t-boned by a Monte Carlo. So sad. I just bought a used Geo/Sprint that is, so far, doing as well. The key to the success was a 3 cylinder engine made by Suzuki.
The current cost of a Suzuki car, depending on choices, is under half the cost of a Volt and 32 mpg seem to be the best they can do now. I wonder why? I know they can do better, because they did.
I’d say get a horse because they run on grass but I understand there’s some complaint about their ‘greenhouse gases.’
I’m not clear on how the discussion of the Tesla vs. the Corvette enters into a discussion of a hybrid four passenger commuter car. My point is that the energy I have to buy IN MY CASE (62 miles round trip with the ability to charge at each end) is significantly cheaper than it would be in a comparable strictly ICE vehicle (say, a Honda Civic or, for the matter of that, a Chevy Cruze). Since it’s cheaper, either the Volt, considered as a black box, requires less energy to propel it than the Cruze or the Civic (which is extremely unlikely given its weight and CdA), the energy is coming from a more efficient source, or the market for energy is malfunctioning thus providing arbitrage opportunities of some sort. One of those has to be true. Which do you pick?
I’m guessing we might see a lot of little white electric vehicles stranded all over the country.
I bought a Cadillac in 2005 prior to the government takeover and I like it very much. Unfortunately, I’ve been told in no uncertain terms by my wife that I will not have another, not after Obama’s takeover of the company. I reluctantly agree with her (reluctant only because I like the car so much) and will not buy another, especially after stories like this. American or not, I will not subsidize a union thug run government company.
If you pay tax, you will subsidize it, anyway.
One thing I haven’t heard mentioned, btw, is that even if the average schlub does get one of these wondercars, whatever he saves in gas expenses will no doubt be offset by higher electricity bills from charging the car all night, every night. It will probably be conmparable to running all your high end appliances all night, every night. Where the hell does the extra money for doing that come from ?
Why, from the printing press, running off the grid!
Three words: “run the numbers.”
Perhaps you might enlighten us with some “number running” for us? If, by that you mean “do the math”, I’d love to see your conversion of ergs and watts and so on. I’m in agreement with LGoPs that with one household charging their car every night,or quite possibly TWO cars every night, their electric bill will go orbital.
@SG1 (can’t reply, the host software apparently has a limit on reply trees):
Done that. Done it a couple of times actually. But:
here’s my most recent post on it.
From an article written by a supporter of the AGW myth.:
——————————-
“In comparison, electric motors will have several shortcomings, too. They certainly will emit more pollutants and more carbon dioxide as long as coal is used for producing electric power. Overall energy efficiency of the electric car, from power plant to the road, is still worse than that of a modern automobile propelled by an advanced combustion engine.
The biggest drawback of electric cars is the small number of miles they can drive after a complete recharge. Additionally, the charging of an empty electric battery will take forever, high performance batteries are expensive, and will only have a limited life expectancy.”
—————————————
See it here: http://electricvehiclechargingstations.org/energy-costs-of-driving-electric-cars/
I referenced this article above as well. The math doesn’t lie, as you have so flatly stated. So, there you have it. Electric cars are not the right idea yet. I don’t care if YOU decide to buy one but don’t try to tell me I should.
I don’t even know if I’ll buy one, I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone else what to buy. But whatever decisions someone makes should be informed by factual information and a reasonable facility with logic and at least a minimal facility with numbers. There is much in the comments here demonstrating a lack of all three.
Can you imagine the cost of overtime when the government goons figure out with the limited range they will have to stop and recharge before being able to return to the office. If the trip is really with in range on a single charge they will manage to either take a circuitous route to avoid traffic jambs or get stuck in traffic. There goes any milage savings along with increased hours. If no charging facility is available where they stop will the tow trucks be all electric also? What a wonderful plan to waste my money.
You did read the part about it being a hybrid, right?
I actually saw a Chevy Volt on the freeway yesterday, my first!
It was here in Silicon Valley, driving down Hwy 17 during rush hour. It was going about 55 in a 65 zone, probably conserving energy/charge.
I also saw a Tesla at the coffee shop a few months ago but it was driven by an executive from Tesla. I suspect that Tesla bought one to benchmark it.
The engineering problem is that the energy density of chemical batteries doesn’t really allow them to do more than barely pull their own weight in the overall vehicle. Gasoline is so much better as a fuel for this application. Natural gas is not too bad but still not competitive with gasoline or diesel.
The history of electrics include a story that Henry Ford challenaged his buddy Tom Edison to develop a better electric vehicle. Edison spent a fortune on the effort but couldn’t make the thing go more than 50 miles on a charge! He did get a better battery out of it that he commercialized but no car.
I REALLY want to like the Volt. I think the ideas are great and the future potential is immense, but the reality sure isn’t anything to get excited about.
Even though I am a full fledged conservative, I have been very distressed at how the conservative community does not understand or chooses not to understand the Volt. Chevy had been researching and developing the Volt long before the Gov. bail out happened. When they showed it a auto shows it was a big hit and people at auto shows urged GM to put it into production. The audience of auto shows is not eco-freak extremists.
In addition, the Volt is not a straight electric car like the Nissan Leaf. It is a next generation hybrid. The gasoline engine charges the battery and helps drive the wheels at higher speeds (above about 65 mph) smilar to a Toyota Prius. It can go up to 40 miles on the battery alone, an then the gas engine starts and drives the car meshing it and the electric motors. What is it about this fact that my fellow conservatives don’t understand???? Is it being tainted by association with Obama?
Chevy’s biggest problem now is the price, pretty high.
Dear MDW:
You notice that I have not a word to say about the Nissan Leaf, the only other mass-manufactured EV now on the market. That is because, unlike with GM, I–and every other taxpayer–do not have an ownership stake in a company that has yet to pay off the billions it still owes the government. I’m a bit concerned to see that company building a vehicle that has a tiny potential market, a market from which it cannot possibly make a profit, a profit necessary to pay back its loans and avoid future bankruptcy of the kind from which it was saved by the Obama Administration. I’m also concerned to see the government wasting more taxpayer money manufacturing a market for an unmarketable car, while engaging in egregious cronyism with companies like GE in the process.
I’m also concerned because every Volt buyer, who is obviously wealthier than me and I suspect, most Americans, is picking my pocket for part of the $7500.00 subsidy they receive from the government when they buy their Volt. Yes, the Leaf also gets this subsidy, and thats a problem, but I don’t own part of Nissan against my will.
As I’m sure you’ll notice if you read the article, the Volt is, in the real world, getting more like 25 mile on a charge, and charging times are, at best five hours or so, and that only with a $2000+ accessory. All conservatives should be concerned that GM is wasting taxpayer dollars and driving down its share price whenever it is not profitable, thus further harming the taxpayers with a car that, from the moment it first rolled off the assembly line, could not possibly make a profit. This is not business but political lunacy. Conservatives are concerned about that, no?
By the way, I know Chevy was working on EVs pre-Obama, but that’s not the point. Manufacturers often engage in engineering exercises that wiser heads understand cannot be profitable.
Well said, Mike. And, I want to add, the taxpayer is subsidizing those $41,000 each 600,000 Volts Obama is making the government buy for his government workers. That means the taxpayer is again subsidizing another market, just like wind and solar power.
There is a silver lining to this. 600,000 mid-level functionaries are going to spend 1-2 hrs more per day in traffic due to charge ups, being late to meetings, poor performance in winter weather. Millions of US gvernment clients(aka customers) will be incovienenced. Imagine your medicare provide home health care nurse calling to say that she can now only get three people, instead of five into a work day. Think about your postal carrier deliviering rtural mail iin a Volt. In a year or two the Volt and everything associated with it will be a laughing stock, with an indelible reputation like the Edsel, or East Germany’s Traubat. Imagine what GMs stock will be worth then, sometimes you just have to back away and let people ruin their lives. No amount of advice can change this course, only deep and lasting pain.
Socialism sucks, eh? The problems will really start when the government is allowed to force you to buy health insurance. If that happens, you can bet we will all be driving these useless vehicles in the not too distant future. Our government is becoming our guardian.
The Volt is the biggest waste of money and is just a pipe dream of the administration. if it’s so good, why is there a $7500 bribe to buy it? Why not give it away?
I would submit that the cost to the government (us) will be much higher than the $41,000 pricetag. As with all fleets, private and public, the vehicles need regular maintenance and unscheduled service. As with all new (read unfamiliar) technology, the service requirements spike significantly just because the folks using it dont know what to do. A flat tire is easily serviceable, low coolant is easily replaced. But how about a dead battery halfway between San Fran and Sac or DC and Philly?
The operator, flummoxed and in a hurry, leaves the car, calls a cab, and gets to their destination to perform their duties. But the car has to be retrieved, the additional travel expenses reimbursed, AND, a temp replacement fleet vehicle will be provided. Down time (maintenance and service) varies depending upon the types of use obviously; BLM or NPS vehicles naturally will need more that HUD. But for typical white collar fleet (mid-sized and up), it is about 5% – if your work force needs 100 vehicles, your fleet needs 105.
Here is where it gets interesting. Employees using fleet vehicles know which ones are substandard, and will go to great extents to avoid being saddled with the lemons. So if the down-time (real or major, or even minor but re-occuring inconveniences) is above that baseline 5%, say 10% or higher, That hybrid is not going to see any use.
In other words, that fleet of 12,000 (10,500 plus 15%) will have to be supplemented by a usable – and dependable – fleet of 5500 normal vehicles (figuring a 50% usage plus the 5% out of service value). So instead of a fleet costing $187,000,000, we will fork over $492,000,000 for that vanity fleet in addition to $93,500,000 for the vehicles most employees would rather drive. And that is not taking into account the elevated service and maintenance charges associated with a vehicle that is far less functional/dependable.
The cost of the preening idealism of our cloistered ruling class, that vanguard too smart to set a foot in a real world populated by slugs.“
Wake up, America. This is a catastrophe. A corporation that was for decades a pillar and showpiece of American enterprise and prestige hurtles humiliatingly towards final insolvency.
This could have been anticipated 30, 40 years ago when Toyota and Nissan became the world’s de facto carmakers. GM could have laid plans, if not to capture the high ground again, then at least to become a lean and savvy player in the world market.
But no, it wallowed incompetently in the direction of bankruptcy, allowing its core business to become aged care, a hemorrhaging, zero-sum business with a certain end.
So when the inevitable struck, what happened? The government stepped in. OK, probably inevitable. But even then, at least in theory, all was not necessarily lost. The government could have paid the bills for 6 months or a year, and said: “OK – you have been freed by chapter 11 from your ruinous and unsustainable contracts and liabilities; now slash and burn, get out there and ruthlessly give the market what it wants. This is it. There will be no more help.”
Instead of the company attempting to resuscitate itself, the incompetents at the helm were bullied and cajoled into concentrating on projects like the Volt – stupidity of the highest order.
GM will fail, there can be no doubt about that, next time for good, because when it happens your United States won’t be able to afford to bail it out. The US will be laughed to scorn for it by its enemies everywhere. The car-making business will be sold to China, an American inking the agreement with as much dignity and faux-optimism as he/she can muster, and the core business of aged care can be pursued, shockingly badly and with maximum incompetence, by the government.
As goes GM, so goes America.
Here in SW Florida the volt is not for sale so a man went to a state that sells them and shipped it home 200 miles and the Fire Dept thinks it burned his garage down he also had a converted electric car but preliminary
report points to the volt
pd the leaf is not selling well its supposed to go a specified distance but if it doesn’t do you get free towing home?
Those rebates will never see the light of day if no one buys one of those cars. If the government buys them and uses them we finally get our wish of the government being saddled with what they foisted on us.
I’m more than a little sick of people who know nothing about automobiles or automotive engineering lambasting the Volt as “the next Yugo” or the “next Moskvitch”. The Volt is actually very well-engineered. I also see a general lack of knowledge concerning automotive history and/or the decisions made leading up to the Volt. (one of the reasons you don’t see them? Battery supply issues).
Seriously, skimming through the comments here is almost as bad as listening to Obama talk about economics.
Sorry Chief. Used to sell auto parts myself, and know a good bit about cars. GM has always had an engineering issue. They have many past “Great Engineering” accomplishments that are seriously stupid in some way that ruins any advantage the design might have had. The Vega motor- Aluminum cylinders walls work decently in a Brigs&Stratton, but are only good for oil sales and machine shops specializing in sleeving in a car. I’ll not go into the ignorance of an aluminum block and Cast iron heads…Okay, I will because next up is the Caddy 4.1/4.5/4.9. They did go with liners for that, but they are prone to get loose, and the tops are unsupported so they shift too much ruining head gaskets. Again it used cast iron heads because GM failed to make a decent aluminum head after selling the old Buick motor to British Leyland. The weight savings of the block were close to offset by the head too, they made them extra heavy for some reason. This brings us the abominable V8/6/4 Caddy. I knew one of the engineers who was responsible for the computer. He told the Brass it was not ready for primetime but typical GM, let the end user be the testor et viola, it didn’t work. They blamed my acquaintance. He went insane. Smartest guy I’ve ever met. Also the craziest when off his meds. To this day the cars are considered one of the top 50 worst of all time.
The Olds Diesel…less said there the better. most were converted to a gas engine some time in their life.
Saturn….nice lost foam casting motor. A great looking design that sounded as if a bag of marbles was let loose in the crank case…supposed to compete with the imports, it ended up selling imports (Opals and Saabs) and the engines in the competitors are some of the quietest and longest lasting out there…the GM one? Not so much.
The Olds Quad Four. A real hot rod! (AJ Foyt set a record in one). Not as noisy as some of it’s contemporaries, but had a chain driving the cams. That is not bad, but the housing held the water pump. The chain drove the pump. The drive sprocket has a spring in it that side loads the bearings with considerable force. So designed that if your pump goes out, and with that side load, it will, the impeller grinds into the housing and you need to replace that as well, and you’d best catch it fast, as the pump does not leak out on the ground to let you know it is now bad, it leaks into the oil.
The EV1. GM’s first attempt at the Volt. Turned out to suck, they lost money and crushed them all.
The volt is just one more in a long line of cars GM engineered to a level that is almost right…it’s that Almost part that is the problem.
It should have been left to go bankrupt and what ever came out came out.
I followed a Cuze the other day. I note it has the same rear suspension that GM designed into the Pontiac J2000. Real up to date stuff there, no?
I like what you said. It’s a real world evaluation. I’m not mechanically inclined but I do like a car that’s built to last, built to be fixed, and doesn’t make life hard for the owner or mechanic. There are all kinds of costs, aren’t there? I liked Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler once. Then they designed a vehicle that requires you to take the wheel off to change the battery! What kind of stupid?!
Not quite.
Be american buy a Ford they didn`t take bail-out money.
The Volt sounds to me to be and exact replica of Obama——Pretty (notice PRETTY) to look at but no F88888G good otherwise
Why is everybody afraid of obama? They all kiss his a-s like he is special, he is a bad joke. Any one with a 3rd grade education knows obama`s energy plan is a joke. Not to fear, I read today that the Volts are catching on fire and burning up. That means we can build more of them and sell to the taxpayers!! Isn`t obama just the smartest person on this planet, what wisdom and foresight.
Here is How to do it:
http://www.betterplace.com/the-company-pressroom-pressreleases-detail/index/id/better-place-unveils-network-deployment-roadmap-for-israel-offering-electric-car-drivers-complete-nationwide-coverage-by-end-of-year
The better place concept is to first have a grid in place for recharging and battery swap. You purchase the car and a mileage plan, like a cell phone. They install a home charger. You can pull into one of a large number of charging stations,say a parking lot near work, or a battery switch station which works like a car wash just pull in and your battery is automatically swapped for a fresh one in one minute. Full charge at a charging station takes 30 minutes. A gps unit in the car alerts you to charge left and location of stations.
Right now there is one model, the Renault Fluence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Fluence_Z.E. More are in the works.
Already 70,000 have been pre sold in Israel and the network is going up as we speak. Denmark and Hawaii are starting
pilot projects.
This could work in a small country like Israel or in Hawaii. Obviously not in Montana.
For Israel energy independence is a matter of national security. The electric grid is changing over to natural gas as the new offshore fields are being developed. Also environment is taken very seriously there. It is a fragile ecosystem largely transformed by human ingenuity to make it sustainable for a growing population.
Did you hear, they got NASCAR on board with the first EV race, the DC 30. They are just going to drive around the Department of Transportation building. It’s a two day race with an overnight pit stop. One technical glitch is when they turn on the car-cam, the car loses power and drops to last place.
Regarding the observation that they will be installing charging stations at federal buildings, that means 25 to 50% of the parking will now be reserved with no ICE vehicles allowed.
Let’s just start calling the Volt by its nickname, the Obamacar
“That was funny right there. I don’t care who you are, that was funny.” – Larry the Cable Guy
Obama knows even less about energy and the Volt than he knows about taxes and the economy, or medicine for that matter (e.g. doctors amputating feet). This man is a teleprompter-reading clown who happens to have a voice that mezmerizes simple-minded liberals. I call him the voice of gravitas with the head of emptiness. The lamesteam media is so incompetent that it buoys up this fraud while he dismantles our country. We are being done in by a cult of personality that jettisons logical thought for mindless sycophancy.
It’s no wonder Obama fled from DC and adults like Paul Ryan for a series of campaign appearances. His declining poll numbers have propelled him into campaign mode early, not that he ever left campaign mode. The substantive act of governing is beyond his limited abilities. Yet, it’s what we might have expected from an untested and failed community organizer who had no impact on the Chicago ghettos where he plied his trade. His ultimate ambition, of course, was not to energize the poor, but to become the ultimate sugar daddy to the welfare class. He would do to American what he did in Chicago. Obama is the ultimate triumph of appearance over substance. We can’t boot him out soon enough.
Hope and Change? Hardly. More like Hopeless and Needs His Diaper Changed. He stinks.
Huh
Where did my comment go?
Please explain
Mr. McDaniel:
“What better market for a car no one wants than a government work force that is now at an all-time record of 2.15 million and constantly increasing? And what better way to provide the transportation needs for that artificially conjured market than “advanced technology” vehicles that will cost substantially more than comparable conventional vehicles?”
How prescient was the movie “Brazil”?
http://www.ooyay.com/pics/brazil/PDVD_003.jpg
Motoring along on official business for Information Services!
I was reminded of the Monty Python sketch “Conquistador Coffee Campaign”.
Hilarious! Great spoof…Oh wait, this might have actually happened at GM?
Sigh…
Where does an apartment dweller in say, Brooklyn, N.Y., plug in this “latest pop monstrosity? (thank you Weird Al Yankovic)
Well you go to the hardware store and buy lots of 250 foot extension cords then dangle them out the window then route them through the parking area with the appropriate receptacle on both ends to deliver the 110 volt or 220 volt power to charge your car. Or you employ an electrical contractor to install a conduit assembly with the right wiring size to a convenient area with the proper receptacles right from you electrical box and with provisions that can lock out the receptacle (to prevent theft of your power) and spend depending on how long a run the conduit is and wire sized for voltage drop you might get off with about $12,000 or less for your $42,000 car. So if it works out well you are out around $54,000 for a ten year warranty or $5,400 per year not including your electric bill which will increase!
GMC is warrantying the batteries for 8 years but haven’t set the battery costs yet. There have been estimates for the battery cost at $5,000 – greater than $10,000. Will there be a market for this car when 8 years old? Today you can buy an 8 year old gasoline engine car for about $4,000. Maybe the Volt is a throwaway car.
Disposable lighters make sense, but disposable cars do not!
You do not need to own the battery.
It can be on a monthly estimated mileage plan like your cell phone. Batteries can be replaced and recharged as needed.
Ok not the volt, but typical rush before the market is ready.
I don’t like the idea of sharing batteries. I take care of my stuff. Some people don’t. I won’t go to those places that let you trade in l.p. tanks for grills because, again, I take care of my stuff. I don’t want to use something that someone else has dropped, abused, or mis-used. It’s a factor for me.
If the excuse to buy a Volt is that you can get the battery swapped out, just who is going to buy and stock enough batteries? This car is just too little, too late.
I am favorably amazed at the huge percentage of intelligent comments. Watching the greenies struggle to find a lie they can live with or have anybody believe has made my otherwise dull day interesting. I suggest we develop a vehicle that runs on liver spots, I seem to be growing a harvestable quantity of late.
The knowledge of these people is one of these people in d.c. is our worst nightmare.these people are so inept and sorlid that if they had agoat and wagon they would have sex with the goat shit in the wagon and then step in it.These people will pat you on the back with one hand tell you what a good fellow you are and how they are going to help you while they finger you wiyh their other hand.they just can’t be trusted.Their mental capacity is too much like the fellow that said the car mfgs needed to build a car with fuel capacity(alternative fuel) to go 500 miles with out refueling.One of the engineers said the laws of physics would make it impossible the tank would be too big.This idiots answer was who made that law we can change that law.The best answer to the oil situtation i think would be to drill for oil and develope this new tectnology of making oil from (pond scum)alage.The oil derived from this alage is the same as the oil that is being drilled for and all the facilities that are now being used would not have to be changed.only the places to grow the alage would have to be put in place.It could be grown in the ocean and swamps. The real agenda of these hoodlums is not to help the people and the planet but to take over the world and control the people and enrich a select few elites that want control and power over the people.
Unfortunately, having read the remarks after mine, you still don’t get it. I fear that too many conservatives have let our frustration and opposition to Obama color the whole issue of the Volt. It may still be a commercial failure, but if it is, it will not be because of Obama. I know that people in government sometimes can’t seem to think straight, but the Volt did not come from them. GM was planning to sell the Volt whether Obama promoted it or not–before the bailout. Or is it that some of us conservatives just want it to fail to spite Obama–and hurt GM in the process? Is that smart?
Let us scrap all this funny business with Volt. It just creates division. There is a tried-and-tested solution to fuel economy already – just adopt it en masse, problem solved:
http://www.microcar.org/blog/2008/09/velorex-on-historic-route-66/
Personally, I don’t know if GM was planning to market the Volt or not. Some concept cars (PT Cruiser, Viper) find a market some (Edsel, Volt) don’t. If GM WAS planning to market Volts without Obama administration encouragement, it was clearly a bad idea since they cost more to make than they can sell for and they don’t appeal to the consumers – clearly they don’t if they aren’t selling. If that was their own bad idea it just goes to show how incompetent they were at running the company and they deserved their bankruptcy.
Apparently the government “take-over” wasn’t effective either, since GM didn’t become better managed and, in fact, continued the plans to produce the Volt. Which doesn’t pay for itself.
Now the company is being sold at a loss… not having paid the taxpayers back. I’ll be interested in what they’re going to do with GM now. Will they dismantle GM? Subsidize it? Continue to sell/fail to sell the Volt?
Oh Lord! Deliver us from the curse of the Obama-tross!!!
I am almost ready to go out and buy a volt. Save the environment, help GM out of a self inflicted malaise, support our beloved leader. However I have it from a very reliable source that Barry is about to announce with a stroke of his magic pen that he is going to invest bizillions of US/China dollars in perpetual motion motors. The energy source of the future that will absolutely free the US from our dependence on foreign oil.
Here is a math problem teachers could try out on their students.
How long does it take to travel from Chicago to Miami if you have to wait 12 hours for a charge after each 25 miles?
The problem is not clearly defined. Day or night?; Defroster or heater needed?; How many passengers?; Air conditioning needed?; Radio on or off?; Headwind or tailwind?; Windshield wipers?. This car is a joke.
Umm, you could get there as fast as with any other four passenger commuter car? You realize it’s a hybrid, with an internal combustion engine, right?
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