Obama Turns on America’s Veterans
The outrage is just beginning. Personally, I wish that Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, in a follow-up meeting with veterans’ service organizations, had told them “we are still moving forward.” I’ve yet to get feedback on exactly what was said in that March18 meeting at the White House, but from what I understand, apologies were not offered. In fact, I’m willing to bet that in some upcoming bill, one with several thousand pages of content, there will be a paragraph (or even just a sentence) that reinstates this initiative. Had they kept moving forward with this, it’s a fairly good guess that every congressman that voted for it would face some serious wrath come 2010.
Mark my words — every page of every future bill will have to be read with a magnifying glass or we will see this again.
Calls for the resignation of Eric Shinseki, secretary of the VA, have started. He’s facing one long, lonely road if these types of proposals keep cropping up.
It still remains to be seen where the administration will go with veterans as a whole. But seeing that it is willing to give $900 million to Hamas (who will likely fund those shooting at our troops) and then try to recoup $540 million off the backs of veterans, it smacks of some of the most horrific hypocrisy we’ve seen in a generation. I’m not putting my trust in this administration any longer.
The one group that seems to not get it is VoteVets.org. This group claims — wrongly — that the president pulled out of the initiative only because the vets’ groups reacted so vociferously. That’s hardly the case. American Legion National Commander David K. Rehbein stated that in his first meeting with the president “it became apparent during our discussion today that the president intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan.” Only after several congressional leaders disavowed the plan did the White House back off of it. Rep. Glenn Nye (D-VA) warned that such a proposal “could harm our veterans and their families in unintended, yet very serious ways, jeopardizing their families’ health care and even negatively affecting veterans’ employment opportunities.” Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) even called it a ‘’non-starter.” When even your own party won’t go along, what chance do you have?
It seems to me that this administration hardly cares.
A non-starter says Democrat, Jim Webb?
Barack Obama not only is a non-starter, he’s a non finisher. And a non-entity.
He’s a liar, a cheat, a chicken and a snake oil salesman of the worst kind. I call on journalists with some sense of honor and integrity to hold Barack’s feet to the fire.
Living in the White House, he belongs in the outhouse. He’s no friend of America. Resignation or bust is not an option. It’s a must.
For the military; any military man or woman to have been fooled by Obama, a man who has spent his life hating and trying to destroy everything America is unforgivable!
With all of the red flag warnings that were raised about Obama prior to the election, any member of the military that supported the man failed miserably to prepare for battle and protect our country.
I agree, they’ll move forward on this. This was no casual proposal. I expect they’ll start with dropping support for all injuries that do not arise from direct combat… then they can expand it later. Large copays could easily bankrupt veterans and their families.
The American public owes service to veterans for the service they’ve given to us.
Our metrosexual President does not seem to have much in common with those who serve in the military. Who can forget during the campaign his decision to go to the gym instead of visiting soldiers?
This is yet another bad idea from the administration. The author is probably right, Obama does not care, he does not see the group that would be impacted as part of his core constituency.
“But seeing that it is willing to give $900 million to Hamas (who will likely fund those shooting at our troops) and then try to recoup $540 million off the backs of veterans, it smacks of some of the most horrific hypocrisy we’ve seen in a generation.”
Barack Obama is existentially committed to a non-violent, radical critique of America. In his heart of hearts, the president perceives the U.S. military as comprised of warmongers. The members of Hamas are dark skinned and therefore victims of the racist West. These alleged victims are entitled to that 900 million dollars. We disgusting Americans have no right to say no to them.
Remember the “constituency” here that Zero wants to attract are not the veterans…they aren’t going to vote for him or give him money.
The constituency are the “private insurance” companies, the sleazier components of the third party world like “Wellcare” (Staysick, in Florida) and generally those that are already raping the Medicaid population in various states with their Managed Care. This is generally substandard with incomplete panels and zero enforcement by the central payer…the state government. All the while the Managed Care company pockets the premiums without delivering care. Some of those premiums will find their way back to various political masters via contributions and lobbyists.
This was a scam to divert money to the pockets of the various Dems.
An apology from POTUS?…no way. He truly believe military benefits should be cut. He and his wife has intense dislike for the military and will do what ever it take to reduce it to Carter like levels. Warriors are always the first to get crapped on by socialism.
When I first heard the idea of private insurance covering disabled service connected vets- I thought it a good idea.
Before you jump me and put a K-Bar knife at my crotch-
Hear me out:
Squeaky voice!
“Disabled vets would not have had to travel hundreds of miles to VA hospitals and wait in line for hours.”
“They could have receive quality care at a local hospital of their choice.”
G. I. Joe’s -voice!
“BUT NOW THAT THE- government has destroyed several large insurance companies,
it will have to remain just a thought for years if not decades to come.”
Again we veterans would like to thank the Democrats in Congress for years,
if not decades to come.
What a crucial mistake on the President’s part. We Veterans are a voting bloc almost 30 million strong, and we have long memories. He may have withdrawn the plan due to bitter opposition, but we won’t forget that he tried to do this to us when 2012 rolls around.
That’ll be “change you can believe in.”
Being C in C means he would be the first to use his personal insurance for him and his family.
And most insurance does not cover acts of god and war.
Obama Hussein is even more incompetent than Carter.
Obama, the most polarizing figure in history, is looking for new lows in his hatred for what is America! Anyone that was remotely paying attention knew this was coming! It will only get worse.
WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM AN EMPTY-SUITED ELITIST WHO HASN’T A CLUE REGARDING THE MILITARY EXPERIENXCE/LIFESTYLE
? PERHAPS HE SHOULD ENTERTAIN HIS ADMIRERS AT STATE DINNERS SERVING AN MRE MENU INSTEAD OF $100.00/LB KOBE
BEEF. THIS BUM MAKES ME PUKE…THE SOONER HE’S OUT, THE BETTER. MY HOPES AND PRAYERS ARE FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION TO DUMP THIS CLOWN BEFORE THE COUNTRY, AS WE KNOW AND LOVE IT, IS FLUSHED DOWN THE TOILET…..
S.M.
The messiah was/is a piece of leftist excrement;why is anyone surprised? He can spare endless funds to bail out the leftist plutocrats who program his teleprompter,buy $100 /lb. kobe beef to feed his posse , and to subsidize welfare mortages for the undeserving rabble,but for wounded veterans:the shaft.This ought to put the lie to the leftist canard about “supporting the troops but being against the war”.There is a silver lining though , when the Ohole calls on the military to repress the conservative resistance,they’ll tell him to go hire some private contractors.What a despicable little creep!
Obama’s real goal is not making veterans pay for healthcare. His target are the future officers and soldiers. Who would enlist knowing that in case you are injured you and your family will starve while paying the healthcare for injuries contracted on duty? Who would volunteer for Special Force or for learning the skills whose knowledge makes you likelier to be deployed in a war zone? Obama’s real goal is to cause a drastic reduction in numbers and quality of the US Armed Forces. His goal is to gut them and make America a paper tiger unable to oppose agression. That is his fianl goal.
No wonder, from someone who is firmly (mentally) amongst those who yelled (and barely controll themselves not to do it again): “Baby killers! Baby killers!”
Obama is irremediably an angry lefty who hates the US army (and nation, after all) – in his mind, the Kent U incident is infinitely more important than Iwo Jima, Midway, the Normadie beaches, the battle of Bulge etc.
And also, should I remind you that “leftiness” is not an atittude resulted from one’s life experience, readings or thinking things over – “leftiness” is a natural, self-fueling (and generally unwarranted) disposition of anger and revendication towards life and world.
Addition to #44: Oh, by the way, we aren’t alone in this cesspool – remember last week’s incident in England with that crowd yelling and insulting the Anglian regiment at return home?
I have a hard time seeing how this proposal is even in the Obama administration’s interest.
Could they really be so oblivious to the sort of outrage they will receive that has already begun? Even Jon Stewart jumped on them for this.
If it isn’t apparent to veterans that the Great Capitulator In Chief isn’t the least bit interested in their welfare now, I don’t know what it’s going to take. His choice for the SOVA is a combat veteran himself, wounded in Vietnam. For General Shinseki to even entertain such a treasonous policy is grounds for dismissal IMO.
What’s next, families being charged funeral expenses for those killed in combat…to save a few bucks?
Of course, this is just a moot point, we’re much too interested in juicier headlines, like NCAA brackets, bowling alleys and when the next photo-op will take place.
This is nothing more than an attempt to cause undue hardship on our injured soldiers. Whether causing them more pain and suffering because insurance companies won’t cover their war injuries, or causing complete and utter failure of the whole system, the goal remains the same. Either cause a group, that the American people will feel great sympathy, to cry out for universal coverage, or cause such a systemic collapse that finally a vast majority will accept universal health care.
Either cause a group, that the American people will feel great sympathy, to cry out for universal coverage, or cause such a systemic collapse that finally a vast majority will accept universal health care.
Kevin — I suspect you are correct. I just don’t see how Team Obama thought that they could get away with touching such a third rail as veterans’ health care.
Don’t blame me. I didn’t vote for That One. I am sorry veterans. I honor and revere you, I always have. To me you are the best this country has to offer. But I saw this coming, I am so sorry so many other people didn’t.
Obama and his whole administration are rotten to the core. They are incompetent, liars,and dangerous not only for us but the entire world. I am afraid he is going to bankrupt the country before much longer.
This tyrant will not only use the military for his own immoral pleasure, but will also enjoy their suffering. An absolute tyrant. He is an immature arrogant little boy who suddenly owns a candy store and bribes, teases and humiliates with his sweets.
If it were only a candy store.
#8
“Disabled vets would not have had to travel hundreds of miles to VA hospitals and wait in line for hours.”
“They could have receive quality care at a local hospital of their choice.”
What??? Your post makes no sense at all. We are not talking about the options that are available to veterans. Trying to get private insurance to pay for veterans’ healthcare is simply a way of saying that America has no obligation to its veterans.
Of course they don’t care. In the eyes of President Obama, as with all those with socialist tendencies, militaries are the oppressive wing of capitalism both abroad and domestically.
Such juvenile views are still, unfortunately, adhered to by far too many people.
http://trackacrat.com/?s=veterans
You are precisely right JFM. His goal is to decimate the Military and render this Nation defenseless.
As a non service connected Viet Nam combat vet, I’m sure my treatment at the VA is about to get kicked to the curb. I’m a self employed carpenter who has no other health care option. But why should I get affordable health care just because I served when those precious health care dollars can be spent on an illegal immigrant (they’re patriots too) or a welfare queen (a true veteran of the war on poverty). It can’t happen here? You want to bet?
Obama is a kid in a toy store with no adult supervision. Unfortunately the toys are our lives, security and financial well being.
Its strange I hardly hear from my friends anymore on the topic of how great he will be.
I’m saving my “I told you so” for a special occasion.
I would not be surprised to see as a cost-cutting move that they stop providing for the return of KIA’s to the US for burial. He’ll just recommend cremating them where they are.
This dude’s a real peace of work. All of the major snafus, insults and gaffes we’ve seen are either deliberate, ignorant or incompetent.
None of those bodes well for the next 46 equal monthly installments of this “presidency”.
The easiest way to destroy a country is to destroy its military. That is the goal of this Marxist president and his democratic party.
Yet more goofy, widespread, Google-less disinformation. Try looking at what Obama and his people were thinking about in the big picture:
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,186747,00.html?wh=news
The idea was to take advantage of any medical coverage redundancies where private carriers could cover medical costs, and then take the projected $500+ million in savings and fold that into the overall VA budget. This was just one piece of an overall plan was a big net plus to veterans in the long run, but nobody seems to want to think beyond next month anymore in this “Me want it NOW!” country anymore.
Do you childish whiners really want VA hospitals to continue to deteriorate as they did under Bush? Also bear in mind that as much as healthcare costs have relentlessly gone up in the private sector, it’s far worse in the military: advances in battlezone emergency treatments have doubled the average survival chances of the war in injured since the Vietnam era, but the flip side of that is that you have more veterans needing long term care. Here’s a little tidbit of info most of you probably have no clue about:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-03-04-braininjuries_N.htm
Try to imagine the long term costs for dealing with that sort of thing, and not just in terms of plain economics: picture the young veteran from today with a lifetime haunting injury 50 yrs in the future — that’s the scenario we need to be thinking about now and NOT 49 11/12 years from now.
It’s funny how the Republicans love to try to privitise everything else under the sun, but are howling about this situation.
Yes, this wasn’t the best move by Obama, but to his credit, he does plan on actually boosting the budget of the VA by $1 billion.
Before you yell traitor and tyrant, actually try looking at both sides for once.
Also, I have an uncle who flew a Mustang in World War II at 17, served in Korea, and flew a gunship in Vietnam. Went from an enlisted man to a Lt. Colonel. 100% patriot, and voted Obama. You going to call him a fool?
BC-
You a vet, f***stick? Cause YOU certainly don’t seem to understand COMBAT injuries. ONE type of injury alone could max out someone’s civilian healthcare, and leave THE REST OF THE FAMILY without it. Certainly is helping vets, eh?
And, keeping our battlefield injured ALIVE is certainly a goal we’ve had for centuries- but you seem to be complaining about its ‘cost’. SOCIALIZED MEDICINE will be far, far worse.
And as far as USA Today cluing me in, I”ll pass.. their bias is well known. That’s like asking the Communist Party to teach me about democracy.
Mr Wolf
BC: There are no “medical coverage redundancies” for service related wounds. That’s an idiotic phrase.
Private / employer health plans do not cover pre-existing conditions – like the shrapnel in your gut. If private insurers are forced to cover them, all our premiums will go up, and employers will be even more reluctant to hire Veterans and Reservists.
It’s funny how the Republicans love to try to privitise everything else under the sun, but are howling about this situation.
What stupid, sophomoric snark. We’re talking about coverage of combat related injuries in service to the country numbnuts. We’re not talking about health coverage to private citizens who could easily buy some if they set their priorities straight. As old soldier says, who’s going to cover shrapnel in your gut?
It’s time to get very serious when a President lies and flips the finger to our brave men and women. Hope those ythat voted for Mr. Hollywood are real happy in their choice. We need to take America back!
Obama: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Sorry that the voters fell for all of his promises. Clinton balanced the budget by taking it out of the military. Hilliary wanted to do away with uniforms in the White House. Carter was a real stand to guy as well.
Predictably the smoke and mirrors man in charge will make things worse for our military despite what he says. They are, after all, politicians.
The VA is already doing this to me. I am 100% disabled, from a service-connected injury (not battle related).
They have been billing my wife’s insurance for every visit for about 18 months.
Preview is my friend.
Are you still glad that you voted for Obama?
mishu,
How are my comments sophomoric? Republicans constantly harp about how private industry is more efficient. Something I tend to agree with them on in many aspects. On top of that you now have private industry taking over support functions in other areas for the military and I always hear veterans bitch about the VA. When wouldn’t the private sector benefit veteran’s who have been injured?
I don’t have time to watch the video on healthcare, but are you basically accusing millions of Americans of being too stupid or lazy to buy healthcare? I know there is Cobra and I know Cobra is outrageously expensive. Not setting priorities straight? Hmmm..food and bills versus healthcare. Yea..
BC: Here, maybe your oxygen-deprived brainbucket can wrap around this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/17/dems-fuming-over-white-ho_n_176006.html
It’s a fact that if such a proposal were ratified, MY premiums would go UP, that means increase…here, I’ll break it down for you in a monosyllabic way since it’s obvious you have a reading comprehension problem:
Pre
mi
um
In
crease
To take my combat related wounds; which are many, and require my private insurance to cover medical treatment would tax my benefits and leave my family without coverage. It would max out everything. Like other well informed readers to this post have noted, returning veterans would find it quite difficult to find an employer willing to hire someone with PRE-EXISTING medical conditions that their provider would have to cover.
Those who have served this country should be priority ONE. Instead, regardless of administration, more money is poured into bridges that no one will drive over, roads that lead no where and care for those who ILLEGALLY cross our borders-not to mention failing business’s and idiotic people who buy homes and fail to read the small print.
It’s pathetic.
13. deguello wrote:
There is a silver lining though , when the Ohole calls on the military to repress the conservative resistance,they’ll tell him to go hire some private contractors.
Peter writes: He won’t have to. What do you think his well funded, well armed Civilian Security Force (pronounced SA/SS) will be for?
President Obama wants to get rid of government health care for veterans who have served their country honorably – at the same time he wants to institute universal government medical care, which would cost over $1 trillion! This is like his snubbing of those with the Congressional Medal of Honor at his Inauguration. He hates the military of his own country, but supports those of enemies, e.g., Hamas, to which he is giving almost $1 billion.
Can ordinary citizens get a President Impeached or is that only in the province of Congress?
32. Middleman wrote:
Also, I have an uncle who flew a Mustang in World War II at 17, served in Korea, and flew a gunship in Vietnam. Went from an enlisted man to a Lt. Colonel. 100% patriot, and voted Obama. You going to call him a fool?
Peter writes: In our current situation, yes, I’m afraid I would.
~Peter – Proud OIF Vet
37. JED wrote:
Clinton balanced the budget by taking it out of the military. Hilliary wanted to do away with uniforms in the White House. Carter was a real stand to guy as well.
Peter writes: Only good thing I can say about Carter, at least he wore the uniform for a time.
Every dollar that the life-long civilian who claims to have been born in Hawaii can save on veterans’ service-related health care costs is another dollar that he can shovel towards Hamas and his buddies in ACORN.
It’s all about where his priorities are.
If you don’t share his priorities, then you’d better get on the phone to your Congressional reps and promise them hot buttered electoral death if “The One…and ONLY” isn’t brought to heel.
Middleman, As private insurance is not portable no one will have private insurance before going into the military. If they did, how long would it be before they put in a rider that combat arms provided an uninsurable risk (sort of like building on a flood plain,etc.)
What insurance company which already excludes pre-existing conditions will give a policy to a double amputee or someone with a traumatic head injury?
Hate to diss a fellow vet, but your uncle is a dumbass for voting for the Commie in Chief.
F*** the veterans. They don’t vote for me, anyway.
Lowered Expectations Hit Home
So much for yesterday’s “Comedy Break” and now for some reality checks:
U.N. Never Ceases to Amaze: Reuters reports the United Nations plans to recommend dumping the dollar as the world’s standard, “in favor of a shared basket of currencies:” //www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE52H2CY20090318. Coming just a week after the Secretary General of that august body on the banks of New York’s aptly-polluted East River declared the United States “a deadbeat” nation, http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=909, the timing and irony couldn’t be any better. Secretary General Ban ki-moon first kicked sand in America’s face by calling us deadbeats after half a century of our keeping that useless excuse for an international organization above water with over a trillion dollars, an “expert” U.N. panel now wants to bury us by undercutting our dollar as the world’s reserve currency. Is there anyone left out there who still doesn’t understand that the pack of thieves, charlatans, and murderers sitting in the General Assembly and Security Council don’t exactly have America’s best interests at heart? My suggestion for the U.N. building is to use it as a demo site to show the effects of a volcanic eruption.
Nancy P., Illegals’ Best Buddy: Loudspeaker of the House Nancy (Bella) Pelosi has calmed the tremulous nerves of millions of illegal aliens in our country by assuring them they will always have jobs and a place of refuge on our shores and that enforcing immigration laws is “un-American.” She then threw a bigger bone to the legal and illegal immigrants she was addressing by saying they were “very patriotic:” http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/18/pelosi-tells-illegal-immigrants-work-site-raids-american/. How’s that again? Nancy the Vapid went on to ask the rhetorical question, “Who in this country would not want to change a policy of kicking in doors in the middle of the night and sending a parent away from their families?” Not only did she sound very much like Rep. John Murtha lying about the tactics of our troops in Iraq but her plaintive sucking up to future Democratic voters ignored the plight of currently unemployed voters. Fair is fair. To her credit, Pelosi apparently convinced the administration that screwing injured vets wasn’t politically profitable: http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45254
Teleprompter to Obama: Wait for Instructions, Please!: America’s first honest-to-goodnesss TPT (Teleprompter) president, Barack Hussein Obama, went on a much ballyhooed Leno “interview” last night. Obama babbled on,…
(Read the rest at http://genelalor.com/.)
middleman,
Is it possible that the injuries incurred in combat are different from the health problems usually encountered in peacetime ? If this were so wouldn’t one want to have hospitals that specialize in combat-related injuries? If your argument is that such institutions should be private not public I think that might be an interesting is somewhat esoteric argument . But we both know that if vets were treated in private institutions you would be screaming about evil capitalist profiteers.
I think sophomoric is far too kind.
Mr Middleman
Privatization is when veterans are attended in private hospitals instead of VA hospitals. No problem about that. It is analog to what happens in some european countries: doctors are private and social security pays the bills.
Downright treason is when veterans have to foot the bill (and dond’t tell me about private insurances because they will end paying) for injuries sustained while risking life and limb for the country. Betrayal towards them because the country does no stand with them after they stood for it. But also good old fashioned treason because as I said in an earlier post it ensures very few if any people would enlist and teh United States would no longer be able to do anything about unfriendly countries and organizations.
Paul, only if the citizens pressure enough reps to bring up the charges and vote on it. I don’t think those numbers are there.
For us regular citizens, those who don’t serve, we don’t need government provided health care. But this nation has a bad history of screwing it’s vets over. If you have served you should have the option of going to the VA, it’s the least we non-military can do. And if you are injured during your service, both combat and non-combat related(such as training accidents), then we definitely should cover it. It is not a double standard. The last thing a vet should have to worry about is health problems incurred while serving this nation.
48. Bilgeman wrote:
If you don’t share his priorities, then you’d better get on the phone to your Congressional reps and promise them hot buttered electoral death if “The One…and ONLY” isn’t brought to heel.
Peter writes: The only trouble is, where I live, the pols all know it is an empty threat. The sheeple just keep voting them back in, over and over and over, no matter what they do.
If the so-called citizens of Taxachusetts had even a single brain among them, Rep Frank would have been the first out on his @$$ this past election. But no, they just re-elected the Fannie/Freddie architect.
Every time this ‘administration’ makes my jaw drop I keep hoping ‘this will be the last time’… HA! I’ve developed TMJ from all of the ‘jaw dropping’ I’ve been doing as of late.
0bama NEVER liked the military. Hell’s BELLS, he wants his OWN thug army.
*Must breathe*
Hysterical. The author of this article just called someone a “f***stick”. Is this what passes for journalistic integrity on Pajamas Media?
I was going to post a response in which I laid out the following GOP hypocrises:
1. First off, this article is completely disingenuous at its core. The Obama Administration did not push for this plan, it explored this plan as one of many alternative plans, and when the public shot it down, the idea was withdrawn. Any claim that this was Obama’s ultimate plan for veterans health care is an outright lie.
2. The GOP is up in arms over an issue of veterans affairs when for the past 8 years the Republican administration has been systematically chipping away at VFA funds, including shooting down a new GI Bill, and has been consistently finding new and creative ways to screw veterans out of their coverage for medical treatment.
3. The GOP, which has “personal responsibility” and “government stay out of my life” as its core tenets, is now accusing Democrats of not intruding enough into the personal health care choices of veterans. Are you kidding me? Shouldn’t you guys be arguing saying that, just like everyone else, veterans ought to be personally responsible for their own health care? You would be, except for that facts that 1) there is a Democratic administration in power and you can do nothing but reflexively oppose it, even when it makes decisions that are completely in line with your ideological beliefs; and 2) you’re a bunch of hypocrites.
But of course, what would even be the point of trying to write a coherent response to an obviously unhinged extremist author who addresses those who disagree as “f***stick”?
A note to Mr. Wolf, if indeed that is your real name: You’re part of the problem. People have been running away from the Republican party in droves when they realized that folks like you, i.e., the guys yelling “Traitor!” at the Palin rallies, are not the fringe, but are actually the core of your party.
With filth like this being published, this Web site has truly devolved into the last refuge of the completely unhinged, disgustingly racist and shockingly uneducated.
But at least it’s good for a laugh now and again.
For those who responsed to my post concerning private healthcare, fair enough. I wouldn’t expect an insurance company to cover vets out of the goodness of their hearts. In this case I’m more playing devil’s advocate.
Overall though, this argument is overshadowing the fact that Obama’s administration has planned to provide more budgetary resources to the VA than any other previous president. I think that makes the ‘Commie-in-chief’ hating on the troops argument fall flat.
Steve P:
Ever visit HuffPo? At least I made my comment ‘PG’. They don’t bother over there.
I agree that VA funding was ‘lacking’ in previous admins. BUT, don’t stop at the Bush admin. You can just keep right on going back, as far as you’d like. But none of THOSE admins wanted to ‘unburden’ the vets the way BO did.
BTW, if you’d ever served and had a DI get in your face, F-S would be the sweetest thing they ever called you (back then).
And speaking of hypocritical, announcing funding of the VA, support for families, then trying to unload this crap on vets- et tu, Brute?
Mr Wolf
#55 Peter the Bubblehead:’
“The only trouble is, where I live, the pols all know it is an empty threat. The sheeple just keep voting them back in, over and over and over, no matter what they do.
If the so-called citizens of Taxachusetts had even a single brain among them, Rep Frank would have been the first out on his @$$ this past election. But no, they just re-elected the Fannie/Freddie architect.”
A-hem…well, if I WAS an injured veteran, I reckon that City Hall,the State House, or the steps of the Capitol would be good places to hang out.
Kinda like how big city hotel and restaurant doormen with the fancy uniforms came about…wounded veterans of the War for Southern Independence.
Just sayin’.
“Obama’s real goal is not making veterans pay for healthcare. His target are the future officers and soldiers.”
I never thought about it that way, but I think you could be right. Especially, if you combine it with his plan to pay for college for everyone, since the education benefits provided by the military are one of the reasons young people join. But, yeah, if he gradually reduces health benefits, and the education incentive is no longer there, I can definitely see that taking away the reason some people have for joining in the first place.
It’s sad, though. I never really thought Obama cared about the military while he was running for office…but, then I couldn’t figure out why so many military officers (i.e., Webb and then Colin Powell) were supporting him. I’d hate to think there are people out there, people who claim to be patriotic, whose wish is to weaken our country and its military. If this is how our C in C feels, that doesn’t bode well for our country.
#57 SteveP:
“The Obama Administration did not push for this plan, it explored this plan as one of many alternative plans, and when the public shot it down, the idea was withdrawn.”
Perhaps so, but that isn’t the point.
The point is that The Alleged Hawaiian is so far out of touch with the People whose government he presides over that it boggles the mind that such a plan was even explored.
One of our lads gets on the wrong end of an IED in some shit-hole somewhere, that lad should get no medical bills at all…ever.
The fact that his Messiahness even needed to be reminded privately, let alone publicly about this should give you some very deep misgivings about where this fool is leading us.
Because if he’s so utterly clueless about a group as “societally cross-sectional” as America’s military vets, and the subset of those who were wounded in service, then how far out of touch is he likely to be with the sh+t that YOU care about?
Steve P and Middleman…. You both get points for TRYING to make Obama sound so altruistic with his desire to privatize veterans health care. The problem is you don’t have facts on your side. Did either of you wonder why it was the VETERANS themselves that came out outraged about this? Guessing not. You didn’t even pay attention apparently. It’s all politics with you two and veterans be damned.
Sorry to pop both of your bubbles here but this is not a GOP or a Democratic issue, it’s a veteran issue and one that President Teleprompter came down on the wrong side of BIG TIME. His own party was howling, not to mention liberal newspapers and commentators surprisingly. I love how you two minions (Steve P and Middleman) are still out in the trenches for him. So willing to throw veterans under the bus just to keep the shine on Obama. Pathetic.
As for your family member Middleman, I’ve got 5 in my immediate family that served from Vietnam forward including in the Pentagon and they are FURIOUS with Obama for even considering this. It’s anti-American and stupid. Guess that’s why it took Obama to think of it.
#62 Bilgeman: BRAVO!
Middleman, I have a question. The uncle you mentioned that flew Mustangs and served up to and including Nam and voted for Obama…
Have you asked him lately if he STILL supports Obama? Or does he regret his initial choice?
Just because he voted for him in November doesn’t necessarily mean he still holds the same opinion now, especially after this debacle.
#57 Steve P.:
“Hysterical. The author of this article just called someone a “f***stick”. Is this what passes for journalistic integrity on Pajamas Media?”
Steve P, read the bio:
Mr. Wolf is a writer and producer for BlackFive. He is a decorated veteran of Iraq [BSM] and served in the military for 27 years. He writes from Colorado.
In my book, anyone who has a decorated vetreran of Iraq and has served this country for 27 years in the military can call a creep like you a “F***stick” any time he wants.
63. AThinkingPerson,
Lady/Gent? You are my troll-bashing hero! Your posts always hit home-runs with me.
Thank you. I gotta give credit where credit is due.
Lets discuss 4 Obama lies attached to vets.
When a vet comes back, he bumops his replacement and creates an unemployed worker. How does the One call this job growth?
2 when a vet returns, each and every job change, when he signs for insurance, he is rejected for his craniotomy and bullet hole injuries under pre existing clauses
3 Insurance policies are specific againt war coverage
4 Policies require approval for procedures. The field hospital isn’t going to call OHIO to get permission to work on a soldier. They also may have a contract that limist who providors are in the network. Old Barry thinks he can bully insurance by verbal command also. Obama has no intention on becoming honest.
I have come to the conclusion that there does not exist, anywhere in this world or the history of mankind, an efficient, equitable way to render quality health care at a minimum of cost to the patient.
Even private group coverage comes with so many exemptions and conditions, it’s impossible to understand. Hearing aids for your deaf son? Fahgetaboutit. Kaching: $2,400.00 out of pocket. Hospitalization for your disabled child’s dental needs? Fahgetaboutit. Kaching: $10,000.00. “I’m sorry, but these are non-covered benefits.” Oh really? Gotta love the oxymoron in THAT statement. Meanwhile, make sure you cover the cost of the little blue pill for ED and massage therapy.
As a very wealthy law enforcement family (note the sarcasm) we are much to rich to qualify for financial aid through various philanthropic organizations; however, we are also not quite rich enough to just write a check for $10,000.00.
I won’t even go into the nightmare my medically retired Navy daughter is going through right now – stuck between waiting for VA benefits, not quite active duty anymore, but not quite eligible for Tricare. The run-around she’s gotten since her separation sounds like fodder for a darkly-satirical comedy routine, a la “Who’s on first?”
Sorry I can’t offer a solution to this problem – my cynicism toward all things medical and health care-related has rendered me incapable of doing much more than griping and paying the stupid bills.
Re # 62/Bilgeman: “The Alleged Hawaiian” – you made my day, mate!
Peter,
No he doesn’t regret it, yet. For a 3 war veteran he is extremely levelheaded and willing to discuss things. He’s not a boaster. I think that always made him more noble in my eye. He does know how politicans act though. His grandson served in Iraq and had plenty to say about Clinton and both Bushes when he saw the conditions of military readiness when he visited the base to see him ship off. Something they all can be blamed for.
AThinkPerson,
What’s pathetic is your attempt to claim we are trying to throw veterans under the bus to defend Obama, which is bull. I’m just looking at both sides of the issue. Did you not even bother looking into the fact he plans on significantly INCREASING funds to the VA? What anti-American plot could that be apart of?
This is one American that says : Thank you Military.
I appologize for the “one”.
God knows that he won’t.
Middleman…Your actions speak for themselves sir. Your party treats veterans like trash. The point of your last post that bears highlighting is the fact that Obamatron….PLANS….on increasing the funds to the VA. Plans and action are two entirely different things. Obama also PLANNED on vetoing any bills containing pork. Obama also planned on an open admininstration. Obama also planned on working in a bi-partisan way.Obama planned on having above-par cabinet members. Obama planned on having an adequate Treasury Secretary. See any of those things come to pass? Me either. While you’re polishing President Pork’s ever-tarnishing halo, the GOP will be busy looking out for the working man, the taxpayers, the unborn and the veterans.
My party? I have no party, I’m an independent. An independent willing to give a new president the benefit of the doubt, particularly when it comes to information blown way out of proportion. You may find it shocking, but I did the same for Bush because I know Chicken Little rhetoric goes both ways.
It’s interesting that you write off Obama’s PLANS, yet this ‘PLAN’ to throw wounded vets out on the street and into the jaws of private insurers is some done deal in your eyes when it was merely a notion. No blinders hampering your vision whatsoever…
“No problem about that. It is analog to what happens in some european countries: doctors are private and social security pays the bills.”
only for the indigents and the elders that don’t have a decent retreat, or if you have a grave illness like cancer, or heavy injuries
otherwise our “social security” only pays back the third of the bill
you have to have a 2nd insurance, generally called “mutuelles”, that complete until 90 to 95 % of the charges
but if you want new glasses, social security pays a misery, about 10 €, mutelles half or 75 % of the last part, depends on if you have a golden tarif, means that you pays the highest insurance
AThinkingPerson, you’re delusional and dishonest. Under Bush’s watch, thousands of soldiers went undiagnosed and untreated with PTSD and have been committing suicide in record numbers, so don’t lie to us that the GOP cares about veterans. Veterans Affairs under Bush was an absolute travesty, much like the rest of the government has been under GOP misrule.
The GOP is essentially dead. All you’ve got is a cast of cartoon characters – Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber, Bobby Jindall and Rush Limbaugh. Actual “working people” fled your party a long time ago when they realized how little Republicans care about the middle class.
It’s not even an error in judgement. It’s a blatant slap in the face for all of our military and veterans.
He’s on the record that he wants universal health coverage for all…just not the ones who risk their lives and their health for our country. The rest of his plan will be just as bad. The drug users and the illegal immigrants will all be covered, but anyone with a serious illness or high-rish occupation will be told “no”. Imagine the premium when your job description includes mine sweeping and facing enemy gun fire.
In communist China, your family pays for the bullet with which they executed you.
And I wonder what Colin Powell thinks of this proposal… and of Obama, now?
Middleman… So being an independent excuses your lack of compassion for veterans and your inability to use reason when faced with facts? Maybe Obama is a closet independent?
I harbor no blinders when faced with Obama’s intent to use the Veterans health care as his own personal piggy bank. I expressed outrage which for some odd reason I didn’t find in your post. More of that “independent” streak? Yes, Obama has shown his ineptitude and unwillingness to actually DO what he said he would. I find it outrageous that he would even SUGGEST such a plan let alone institute it. You’ll find similar outrage from me on his witty little comment about the Special Olympics on Leno. I’m sure you’ll excuse that away too somehow. Does “independent” also translate into heartless?
Your lack of empathy towards issues concerning our vets is alarming to me as is your willingness to defend a President who has not hid his contempt for the armed forces. I will continue to point out Obama’s shortcomings (it’s become quite a busy hobby for me) and will also continue to highlight things I find contemptuous (like throwing vets under the bus).
I think you need to do a bit more research on what exactly an Independent is. I’m guessing they would support veterans rights too and are ashamed that President Teleprompter had the gall to even think about it.
Steve P…. Wishful thinking on your part I’m afraid. We can all smell desperation in all of the liberal minded posters. I’d be embarrassed and ashamed too if I were a Democrat right now. You were sold a bill of goods and the veterans of this country almost paid dearly for it. The GOP just found it’s message. Thank you President Teleprompter!!
How’s that Geithner/Obama/AIG timeline thing working out for that Democrat Utopia of yours?
How’s the 2 trillion dollar budget of President Pork working out for you?
Sucks to be you right now.
Yes, we Pubs are for privatization of things, but there are exceptions to every rule. In this case, there is a solemn compact: If you fight for this country, and you are wounded or killed, you and your family are taken care of. It has to be that way, else few men would go fight and risk leaving their families in the lurch.
It’s not complicated:
- “Corporal Jones, your team needs to go take out that MG!”
- “Sorry Sarge, but I have a wife and two kids at home. If I get seriously injured, the long-term bills will permanently cripple my family’s finances. As a military family, we’re poor enough as it is. We don’t need to be made destitute. That’ll break up my marriage as sure as anything, and I’ll end up as just another homeless vet. No, thanks! I’m just gonna dig in really deep right here. Sure hope they don’t come after me here….”
THE LEFT USED TO BE ANTI-WAR: NO MORE
Soldiers dying no longer serves their agenda.
http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/03/democrat-war-wheres-outrage.html
No shock here. How can a non-American care about America or our military. Why doesn’r he reign or be impeached??? PLEASE??? I cant even watch the dumbass on TV.
Im soooo sorry he does reign…i mean reign. shame on me
AThinkingPerson,
I have plenty of compassion for vets and I resent that you are accusing that I don’t strictly based on the fact that I’m not jumping on the Commie-Traitor-Tyrant!rant bandwagon.
I know exactly what an independent is. Someone whose only exercise is not jumping to conclusions.
AThinkingPerson says: “Sucks to be you right now.”
Sucks to be me? Please, buddy, this is my dream come true! A Democrat president, a Democrat controlled congress, and a full-on Democrat agenda. That’s exactly what I wanted, and I’m getting it for 8 years at least. Probably more, considering that the GOP has no plan, no good ideas, and no good candidates for years to come.
Rachel,
Oh boy, here we go. More “He’s not an American” Conspiracy! Silly woman don’t you know tin-foil hats actually boost the transmission of mind-control rays from satellites instead of deflecting them?
Middleman….Resent away. I don’t run from my convictions so no resentment here. Wish you could do the same. You do need some exercise by the way besides “not jumping to conclusions”, you might try exercising your right to read once in a while.
Steve P… Let me see if I get this right. Your dream consists of America’s first black President who nominates tax cheat after tax cheat, doubles the national debt in less than 90 days, suggest having veterans pay for their own care, makes fun of the handicapped, won’t provide proof of citizenship OR any college transcripts, has a wife who is not proud to be an American, in less than 90 days has alienated one of our best allies in Britain, has videotaped a speech to Iran only to be snubbed thus embarrassing him and therefore all Americans, has a Treasury Secretary that has proven himself to either be inept or a liar, desires to unionize all business sectors no matter what the outcome, raised taxes on the job creators of the US, nationalized banks….
Shall I go on Steve or is that stomach turning enough? President Pork is truly a gift to the GOP. SWEET! Eight more years my ass. With all of the uprisings across this great land and tea parties springing up, it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t serve out one term. When the liberal media like the Huffington Post is railing against him…..his days of being Mr. Teflon Teleprompter are indeed numbered. Enjoy the ride to the bottom Steve. The GOP will be there waiting to rebuild what he’s (already) trashed.
Eight years? Hahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahhahah…………
In case you thought it was just the US new media laughing at Obama and Biden, here’s proof that the rest of the world is laughing too….
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/03/20/top_10_gaffes_by_barack_obama_and_joe_biden_
RE JFM comment: This comment is one of the most insightful that I have read on “changeandhope”, relating not only to the immediate issue of veterans’ services, but to Mr. Obama’s general thinking processes. It points to the long-standing deep leftist training that our President had received prior to acquiring his office. He has a well-developed world view that he is imposing upon America with a rapidity that bespeaks of a revolution. Our poor children will not recognize what has happened to them until it is upon them. The Bolsheviks took longer to impose their regime than the Obama team.
“Obama’s real goal is not making veterans pay for healthcare. His target are the future officers and soldiers. Who would enlist knowing that in case you are injured you and your family will starve while paying the healthcare for injuries contracted on duty? Who would volunteer for Special Force or for learning the skills whose knowledge makes you likelier to be deployed in a war zone? Obama’s real goal is to cause a drastic reduction in numbers and quality of the US Armed Forces. His goal is to gut them and make America a paper tiger unable to oppose agression. That is his fianl goal.”
86. Steve P. wrote:
Sucks to be me? Please, buddy, this is my dream come true! A Democrat president, a Democrat controlled congress, and a full-on Democrat agenda. That’s exactly what I wanted
Peter writes: So you ARE admitting you have wanted and continue to want the complete and utter destruction of this once great nation. Because in the last two months it has become more than obvious tht is exactly what Obama and his minions are working toward.
My one pleasure in all this is the knowledge, based on past history, that it is the enablers like you who will be the first against the wall when your ‘savior’ assumes total dictatorial powers. He won’t need his helpful idiots anmymore.
73. AThinkingPerson . . . “Your party treats veterans like trash.”
As opposed to stop loss policies, Walter Reed conditions, preventing the Veterans groups from testifying to the Veterans Affairs Committee, putting an embargo on coffin photos as if they never died, denying a 4% pay raise to soldiers, suing widows to recoup sign up bonuses . . .
Pull your head out thunkopolis, Republicans have no respect for veterans, they only create them. Just another face of the bottomless and graceless charade that is conservative values.
92. one of my own
76. Steve P.:
AThinkingPerson, you’re delusional and dishonest. Under Bush’s watch, thousands of soldiers went undiagnosed and untreated with PTSD and have been committing suicide in record numbers, so don’t lie to us that the GOP cares about veterans. Veterans Affairs under Bush was an absolute travesty, much like the rest of the government has been under GOP misrule.
The GOP is essentially dead. All you’ve got is a cast of cartoon characters – Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber, Bobby Jindall and Rush Limbaugh. Actual “working people” fled your party a long time ago when they realized how little Republicans care about the middle class.
Steve,
Every suicide is a tragedy, and the Army has noted the highest suicide rate since it began compiling statistics – 20.2 per 100,000. Compared with the general U.S. rate in 2005 (195. per 100,000, most recent available data), it compares fairly favorably considering the stresses they face compared to the civilian population (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/army.suicides/).
If you take the 2005 Army numbers, in the heat of the Iraq conflict mind you, they were MUCH lower (13 per 100,000)(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12428185). I would be interested to see a less generic comparison, and compare the rates between similar demographics, as the military is generally much younger than the general civilian population and much better educated (yes!) than their civilian peer equivalents. If you look at the 2003 numbers in the MSNBC article above, the army had a greater difference to general population than it did to a closer demographic pool. And it was higher than both back then, too – before the Iraq war really got bad.
PTSD, I can’t really speak to, I’m in the Navy. It is extremely difficult to diagnose and treat, stress is a different animal for everyone and how it’s dealt with is as individual as the person. I recently conversed with a friend who was attempting to get a PTSD diagnosis and VA treatment for an event we were both involved with, and I feel fine, I think. At least I can say I haven’t thought much about the incident since it happened.
Back up your allegations about how bad the VA was during the Bush administration. I recall it was held up (by YOUR side no less) as a model of how socialized medicine could and should work (http://www.slate.com/id/2114554/). Note, that link was from 2005. I guess it’s only good to your side as a tool to push your agenda one way or the other. It can’t BOTH be a “model” and a “travesty” at the same time, can it?
About comparing how veterans were treated by different administrations, do even YOU think Bush would have tried this little bit of accounting sleight-of-hand? In any case, the VA already bills for non service-connected injuries or care. The issue is service-connected injuries. Should they or their insurers have to pay for medical problems sustained in military service, when the government was the provider and they weren’t covered by normal medical insurance? No, many (if not most) literally bled in service. If there is any single group of people that might have a higher claim to tax largess for their legitimate needs, I can’t think of one. They have unequivocally EARNED it. That’s the difference that allows my Republican/Libertarian soul to accept the government providing them the necessary medical services for service-connected disabilities and problems. As Jon Stewart said, “It’s incredibly…fair.”
As a response to your last paragraph about “how little Republicans care about the middle class”, I leave you with a question: If Obama cares so much about the middle class, why did he just propose, and then confirm to the head of the American Legion (before beating a hasty retreat before his caucus in the House and Senate), to ruin the finances, health, and even the jobs of many in that very constituency?
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
Here’s links you can click:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/army.suicides/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12428185
http://www.slate.com/id/2114554/
I guess I’ll NOT put them in parentheses again!
Shinseki should resign. He was a waste of pay as Army CofS and he’s a waste of pay now.
See, clowns get what they vote for, a sissy
promoting clown! Obam and his wife will do
zero to promote military strength and cohesion;
how could they when both are visibly anti mil!
In the midst of bailing out criminal, corrupt
and greedy civilians Obam takes time to eye a
sneak attack on the uniformed. Those military
personnel who voted for this amateur are either:
crazy, abortion lovers or gender confused. Now
is the time to write your (R) congressMan. Tell them active and retired demand clarification of
Obams intent to screw combat vets. Go Army
http://chum.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/20/2570992-fox-news-promo-falsely-claimed-obama-pushes-a-plan-requiring-vets-to-pay-for-health-insurance
fox news falsely claims….
check that one out..
Hey Middleman, nothing biased about attacking
a man who would clearly discriminate against
vets; if he could! Because BHO is a rank amateur he stepped on his crank. Get over
yourself, some independent’s know a fraud when
they observe and listen. The special interest
groups, fems, abortionist, gender confused and
racist’s voted for a clown; welcome to the
BHO circus. The combat injured vet group will
not be the last group attacked; think citizen’s!
People on the wrong side of arguments are reduced to numbnutted namecalling like Mr. Wolf did in my case, as well as blowing off news reports like the one I cited in USA Today when it doesn’t fit his dopey, clueless points. More evidence to why conservatism these days more and more repels people with any sort of real morality and intellect.
As far as this vet health business goes, Obama’s budget calls for a $25 billion increase in funding for the VA over the next five years. That’s a lot of money especially in tough times, and this healthcare idea (and that’s all it was) was just one way to try to reduce federal burden in achieving that. What part of this is too hard to understand?
obama never turned on our veterans,
check out this
promo story, by fox news, via the web:
http://chum.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/20/2570992-fox-news-promo-falsely-claimed-obama-pushes-a-plan-requiring-vets-to-pay-for-health-insurance
Not boasting here, I have traced my family’s
military service back to the Revolutionary
War. Some died or were seriously wounded with
no VA and little government care. America, in
all her goodness, created the VA. Now a rank
amateur and arrogant affirmative action clown
would reverse benefits of those who currently
serve and have served. Name another group he has focused on to rob; besides combat vets?
Planned Un-Parents In The Hood, LGT (alphabet),
criminal bankers, insurance ceo’s, tax cheats,
pampered no service college pukes, Rev Wright’s
hate church, illegal invader (terrorist’s)and ad
infinitum? No, just vets! “Jus words”
PTSD is incurable by dems or republicans.
VA funding was greatly increased under Bush,
as was active duty and retired pay.
A naive man hears a lie and adopts it as truth;
then, he repeats it to other men who know he is a naive liar. NOTE: Republicans have a history
of supporting our military, blacks and all
citizens. Still the deluded factor prevails.
I am a Army Vet 40 months service, that does not use any VA Benefits, I am on Medicare and have Supplement insurance, which I can afford to pay and happy to do it. Now, there are hundreds and maybe thousands of Veterans that can also to afford to pay the insurance, but prefer to us the VA Clinics and Hospitals. I have always believed that unless you have a Combat Wound or Active Duty injury,that requires continued Medial Treatment, Veterans should not use the VA facilities. Guys going for Drugs are Glasses are just spending Taxpayer Dollars.
If the Government could devise a method for the Active Duty Officer and enlisted to pay into a Insurance Fund, similar to Medicare, during their service time, this may allow for every Injured Combat Veteran to have Medical Care upon requirement and with the best Doctors and Medical Centers.
I have to wonder what President Obama and his Veterans Administration Chief, General Shinseki, was thinking. He has never been in touch with the Enlisted men. Remember this was the General that took the Black Beret away from the Army Airborne Rangers, I don’t think he knew the Ranger Units were active. The Army’s elite in Light Infantry. And he never ackowledeged his mistake. One of the Political Generals from Carter and Clinton.
92. one of my own:
73. AThinkingPerson . . . “Your party treats veterans like trash.”
As opposed to stop loss policies, Walter Reed conditions, preventing the Veterans groups from testifying to the Veterans Affairs Committee, putting an embargo on coffin photos as if they never died, denying a 4% pay raise to soldiers, suing widows to recoup sign up bonuses . . .
Pull your head out thunkopolis, Republicans have no respect for veterans, they only create them. Just another face of the bottomless and graceless charade that is conservative values.
Ah, one of my own, welcome back!
Stop Loss: necessary if not the nicest thing to do. It’s also part of every enlistees contract (Officers contracts are a bit different) since at least the beginning of the all-volunteer force.
Walter Reed: Disgraceful, but do you really think that hospital got in that shape overnight? This wasn’t the administration, or even Republicans in general, it was the Army. To their credit, I stayed at Mologne house, and it was clean and well run (that’s where they house the family members – and rent rooms out to any other military as space is available). Thin gruel to pin on Bush, but handy for sure. Maybe if we knew about how they really acted with wounded vets earlier, we’d have a different opinion. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/22/bush-cheney-comforted-troops-privately/
Veteran’s affairs: Is this what you’re talking about? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47436. If so, you’re half misinformed, they merely moved the meeting from Sep to Feb for the House and not the Senate. They still got to testify.
The coffins: The policy goes back to 1991, to start. If you don’t understand why they weren’t allowed to be photographed and broadcast as they arrived at Dover, I won’t be able to convince you in this response. Watch “Taking Chance” http://www.hbo.com/films/takingchance/, it’s much more eloquent, and much less vulgar than I would be here. One thought – if you think morbid curiosity is more important than the dignity of the fallen, I can’t help you.
Denying a 4% pay raise: I’ve been active duty for 21 years and the pay raises have always been more than adequate, even better during Clinton (he did quite a bit, especially after 1994…) and Bush 43. Of course, many were less than initially proposed, and who wants less? And every year so far this decade it’s been at least .5% ahead of private sector growth. BTW, Obama’s 2010 raise is 2.9% – roughly equal to the private sector. Who’s not closing the gap? http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/03/miliytary_payraise_030209w/. BTW, just because *someone* proposes a military pay raise that gets reduced is no reason to go off about an administration.
Suing widows: After a long search, I found nothing except this: http://kdka.com/local/military.signing.bonuses.2.571660.html. A wounded soldier who had been discharged, not a widow. Can you provide a reference? This instance is awesomely stupid and short-sighted on the Army’s part, but not an Administration initiative.
Really, none of these things have anything to do with the Bush 43 administration or even republicans in general (except for the coffins – and they were RIGHT). Yet somehow it seems you think they all just popped into being when you first heard about them in the Bush 43 administration.
A suggestion: next time you come here to our house, come with a supportable argument. Bring sources and citations. I have no problem jousting with you, but I’m getting tired of your bilious invective.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
103. D. Grant Chee—-VA funding was greatly increased under Bush,
as was active duty and retired pay.
Really? How much did pay go up for enlisted personnel and retired military?
http://chum.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/20/2570992-fox-news-promo-falsely-claimed-obama-pushes-a-plan-requiring-vets-to-pay-for-health-insurance
WTF? “Anonymous”, you really must think we’re that stupid if you think you can hide Media Matters for America (look at the article source) from us! BTW, your article even states that the provision was “previously considered”. Do you even read past the headline?
OK, I started this whole link your sources thing, so here’s your sign:
Oh look, FOX news saying “Obama drops controversial health care proposal!” http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/18/obama-drops-controversial-health-care-plan-wounded-veterans/
But we knew that already, it happened yesterday. Here’s news prior to that: http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090316/pl_usnw/the_american_legion_strongly_opposed_to_president_s_plan_to_charge_wounded_heroes_for_treatment. The day before abandoning it, Obama intended to move forward with it.
Here’s why he quit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/17/dems-fuming-over-white-ho_n_176006.html. His party told him to get bent. He needed no other reason, he’s a party man.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
Yea for those with 75% or more combat or service contected disabilites could always go on Medicare or Medicaid.
LOL. This is the pretense for universal healthcare. You know the old saying the people get the government they deservered. well I guess we got it.
One more thing if President Obama wants to get rid of the VA why don’t he get rid of workmen comp, its pretty close to the same thing. If you get hurt at work your employee pays for it. The small businesses the congress & the President is so concerned about (lol) could save alot of money & create so many new jobs
96. Anonymous:
Shinseki should resign. He was a waste of pay as Army CofS and he’s a waste of pay now.
If I were the type to call for heads over this, I would agree with you. Wait, I DO want heads. Just not his. I don’t think it was his idea – he just had to try to sell it.
I find it a bit amusing you guys (Anonymous, one of our own, Steve P) try to pin every little negative thing to GWB that happened on his watch (or even NOT on his watch), but are more than willing to throw Obama’s point man under the bus NOW over this. And you did it in such a way that it almost got under our radar – well played, sir.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
Marc Malone #81: You’re right about Middleman’s remark about privatization. It’s utterly asinine. But “exceptions” doesn’t adequately address this, because it suggests a contradiction, however weak. There is no contradiction between opposition to socialism or statism, and the idea that there are benefits which the government should provide to some individuals. Opposition to socialism says that the economy should be *largely* free of government control, and that it is immoral to commandeer a person’s labor or wealth *merely* because it would do someone else some good.
106. one of my own:
Read my comment #105 and check the link. As a long-time active duty Sailor, I pay attention to pay issues. From your comments and questions, I wonder if you have done the same. That is, other than to use it try to bash your enemies. If you want, here’s the data you’ve been looking for:
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables.html
There’s a link for retired pay, too. It goes back quite a ways. BTW, retired pay increases are higher than active duty generally, but it’s super complicated – feel free to look around and learn.
V/R,
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
Jeff Weimer
ONE of MY own? It went up for the VA, active
duty enlisted and retired enlisted. All three
of my sons are USArmy and I’m retired army. I
may look at pay differently than some because
when I joined in 1962 pay was $78.00 before tax.
There was no pay increases of note until well
into the Viet struggle, after 65– The best pay raise came with jump pay, pro pay, flight pay seperation pay, tax free pay and promotions. not to mention health care, rations, clothing allowance, housing, 30-day paid leave annually-etcetera. One of my sons retired last year as a CSM, (his monthly pay) exceeeded what (pilots of the F-86 in Korea drew annually) in 1950-53, flying against Soviet Migs in Mig alley! Really!
Oh, the 2008 pay increase for enlisted was
large—6.5% I do believe. Oh, the VA has
successfully operated on me three times since
1983. Two surgeries were lifesaving and combat
related. Had they been simply service connected
the surgeries would have been 100% covered, as
was the case on active duty. Wait until you are older and some sunday morning you have a life
threatening heart attack, stroke and etc. then,
you will be thankful the Veterans Administration is in the soldiers corner, especially if you are
disabled and unable to pay insane health care costs. Give thanks we live in America, and pray
some clown doesn’t get elected who knows nothing of the military and arbitrarily deletes your earned (delayed pay)!!! Really? Could that happen?
VA has been doing this for years, but only for non-service connected conditions. In those instances the VA is simply acting as an insured veteran’s medical resource. The question is the impact of these on service connected care, the VA is busy, and has low staffing levels. But in part, civilian insurance is helping to pay for combat related medical resources. It’s hard to say it’s good or bad, But to require that service-connected combat injuries be paid for by civilian insurance flies in he face of history and the government’s moral obligations. And it’s just plain dumb! Politically dumb. Talk about a bunch of rookies.
With regard to relations with the military, Obama is another Clinton.
The thought of this Marxist usurper in command of our armed forces makes me want to puke. I think the military knows he holds them in contempt. But if he goes too far he’ll lose his swagger. If a serious Constitutional crisis happens the Joint Chiefs will meet their Rubicon. And let’s hope they and we cross that Rubicon. Death to the followers of Marx and Gramsci!
Republicans have no respect for veterans, they only create them.
You know, I can’t believe I didn’t take this one head on earlier. You are wrong, period. Since (even including) WW2, the conflicts that have created the most veterans until Iraq/Afghanistan, have been in Democrat administrations. Korea – Truman. Vietnam – Johnson. Don’t give me that crap about it starting with Eisenhower, we didn’t send appreciable numbers until Johnson. It was NOT Nixon’s war, as much as you’d like to tell yourself it was – he largely ended it for the U.S. – before he screwed himself and let everyone believe otherwise. Fun Fact: the Democrats held control of both houses of Congress during most of Korea and all of Vietnam – and Grenada and the First Gulf War.
Fact is, it’s been a bipartisan effort to create veterans – always has been, war and conflict is truly non-partisan. Other than that, we can argue politics. Was the Iraq war necessary? Debatable, I agree. But it’s done, so let’s move on (where have I heard that before?). We’ve spent blood there in service to an ideal (you may disagree on the caussus belli), one we must now see through, like it or not. Do you want their sacrifice to be in vain? You may not realize it, but in the realm of international politics, your willingness to accomplish an objective counts for more than how well you can be liked. In other words, can you keep your promises? If not, you’re a paper tiger – and an easy mark.
We experienced that after Vietnam when we couldn’t rescue the hostages in Iran and when we lost the Marines in Beirut. We regained that respect after Grenada, the Libya raid, and the first Gulf War. In between we took hits (USS Stark) and made mistakes (USS Vincennes). We lost that respect in Somalia. Granted, we shouldn’t have taken that on – there was no U.S. interest other than the generic “humanitarian” emergency. We took a relatively light hit, and decided to leave, as there was no real reason to be there and spend lives. This was one of the points Al-Quaeda looked at when they assessed our stomach for war. They saw a weak will, and they were right, at the time. They pushed us, escalating from easy targets like embassies and military installations to harder targets like Ships. When all of those succeeded, they thought they could go to the U.S. itself – and they were right. We let them on our commercial aircraft because we thought what they had planned would never happen. We were, of course, wrong.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
#111 Frog – You are right, of course, but I felt it necessary to take away the propoganda tool of Pubs wanting free-market solutions. Some people would buy into it without being reminded that every rule has its exceptions. It’s also far easier to understand than the distinctions you proffered. One can be too erudite.
I’ve been amazed at the President’s “defenders”. They defend stripping vets of medical coverage even after the President has supposedly abandoned that position. Does that mean that his backing off of this position was purely for show, but he’s still mobilizing his shills to push this?
Truly, I feel so much better this week. I’ve been worried since the election, and the takeover/makeover seemed to be gathering steam. Now, I am reminded of the wisdom that evil contains within it the seeds of its own defeat. If they had been more patient, thorough , and competent, they might have gotten away with it. But, they’re drunk on power, and have thrown caution to the wind. For the first time in three years, the weekly generic ballot poll has reversed from favoring Dems to favoring Pubs.
Indeed, for the last couple of weeks, I have been laughing at this Presidency and Congress as they demonstrate their buffoonery beyond any possibility of spin. Today, Press Secretary Gibbs was left stuttering and sputtering. Um, uh, ah…. Hilarious. AIG bonuses? Gross incompetence… and funny to watch the fallout. Private insurance for vets? Dumb! No plan from Geithner? Risible. Communist China cautioning this administration about economics? Priceless! Same from the Russians? Ha! $2.4B Trade war with MEXICO because of 97 trucks? OMG!
Offending Britain was the best. Not only does Obama lack nobility, he also has demonstrated that he lacks even Bush’s gentility. This is something Europeans just cannot overlook, given their contempt for America’s “lack of class and sophistication”.
Do we have anyone left among our friends, allies, and trading partners whom we have not offended, or at least, left shaken? Even Japan has decided to go forward on NK nukes without us, as obviously we are no longer able to take the lead. In 60 days, the Obama administration has become a laughingstock, and the blatant self-destruction continues.
Before, my laughter was gallows humor. Then it became schadenfreude mixed with sadness for my country. But now… now(!), I have hope! I exult! I laugh freely! This is change I can believe in! Hahahahahahaha!
Anonymous….
one of our own….
Steve P….
Where are you?
Hello?
I know it’s late, but…
That the Left wishes to denigrate military service and veterans is a given-although many, if not most, on the Left will lie about it. But in this case trying to make wounded veterans use private insurance companies to pay for their care has more to do with Socialized Medicine then Veterans per se.
Forcing their insurance to pay for service connected wounds would make veterans unemployable-companies that do provide insurance just could not afford to hire them regardless. They would then be one more agent for National Health Care. The closing of Veterans Hospitals and rolling them into a National Health system has happened in Britain and long been a goal of the American Leftist.
The Obama administration is much worse than a mere laughingstock: they are indeed Hard Left.
You yahoos ever consider that the context to all this is an overall plan for universal healthcare without all the regulatory/red tape/insurance BS that has made our hospital emergency waiting rooms and corridors cautionary tales for the rest of the industrialized world? There has been a lot disinfo about “socialized” medicine, and the US still has world class doctors and facilities, but the bottom line is that the average person is a whole lot better off getting sick or injured in Europe than in this country, most especially if you’re elderly — and I know this from direct knowledge. Whether you are a young vet with a battlefield injury or a little old widow who slipped on some stairs, there should be a place for you to go and get treated quickly and properly without having to jump through hoops and/or be fearful about how to pay for it.
And to you malicious/clueless/lying Obama bashers, go stick another cork in it about Obama denigrating the military and veterans, especially in the context of what Bush had wrought (aside from generating lots of veterans):
http://vets4politics.blogspot.com/2009/02/obamas-va-budget-proposal-aims-to.html
Shmucks….
STEVE P.
#57
You sound like a truly pathetic (typical) civilian liberal ! Just what, if any,is your military history ?
You come off like one of the heroes I encountered when I returned from Viet Nam – you know one of those who was too attached to mom’s apron strings to flee to Canada-so you figured to make an insipid attempt a political statement with your heroine “Hanoi Jane”. Or are you just too young and testicle-free to think for yourself ???
S.M.
BC,
I’m only going to say this once. Jason Leopold of truthout.org simply cannot be trusted as a source. http://www.cjr.org/politics/jason_leopold_caught_sourceles.php. As you read the “article”, re-posted at someone else’s personal blog (not an organization of vets, jut one guy), you see the point of view of the “reporter” shining through. Just because his writing appears to agree with you does not make him unbiased.
Attempting to hide blatant partisan hackery behind an innocent looking link is an easy way to tell if someone is intellectually dishonest in their argument.
Oh, and really like this paragraph from Leopold:
His proposal for the agency would fund a radical overhaul of VA’s technological infrastructure and aims to eliminate an average six-month wait to have disability claims processed. As of September 2008, 330,000 Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans have filed disability claims to the VA, according to the agency. Yet, 54,000 are still waiting for the VA to confirm their claims were received. The average wait for a disability claim is more than six months.
This is exactly the “regulatory/red tape/insurance BS that has made our hospital emergency waiting rooms and corridors cautionary tales for the rest of the industrialized world” you rail against, and it’s the government providing the care. Is this the quality of care and responsiveness we can expect from universal healthcare, I don’t want it. I mean, if there are this many problems with government-provided care in a small cross section of Americans, how exactly is it going to be better when everyone is on it?
Now, fixing what’s broken is a noble cause, and I applaud it. They even want to include more veterans who now don’t qualify as they make more than $30k/yr and have no service related disabilities. But why include them, while taking current vets effectively off the rolls by billing for service-connected problems? That doesn’t make sense, and I’m glad Obama stopped considering it.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
105. Jeff Weimer . . . “Stop Loss: necessary if not the nicest thing to do. It’s also part of every enlistees contract”
Not the nicest thing to do? Part of the contract? You honestly think that 90% of the kids signing up even read that contract? And if they do, do you think they understand it? And if they question something, do you think recruiters respond with honest answers? When I enlisted I was told “Sure, you can take your guitar with you on the sub.” Hmm. It’s marketing over honesty, which has only gotten worse as the military continues to “meet” its recruiting goals by continually lowering those goals. Good thing the economy is in the tank to help up those numbers with desperate, uneducated felons.
Walter Reed: . . . “Disgraceful, but do you really think that hospital got in that shape overnight? This wasn’t the administration, or even Republicans in general, it was the Army.”
Always a little too easy for the sailors to blame the soldiers, ain’t it? Typically conservative point of view – don’t worry about the solution, assign blame for the problem and then wine about it. YEARS went by with Reed filling up with shattered bodies from Iraq and Afghanistan while right wing symbologists placated their chickenhawk souls by saying “Thank you for your service” and “We support our troops” stickers on their SUVs. Walter Reed was an unmitigated disgrace. And you’re equally at fault for defending it.
“The coffins – if you think morbid curiosity is more important than the dignity of the fallen, I can’t help you.”
The dignity is in acknowledging and honoring their sacrifice in reality, not shipping their corpses home under cover of dark as if there is no cost they are paying. The disagreement with the policy had NOTHING to do with morbid curiosity, just as the administration had NO interest in dignity. Their only concern was the impact the photos would have on American’s willingness to accept death in pursing this ridiculous wildcatting exploration they called a war on terror – a shameful exploitation of our heroic dead. And you’re equally at fault for accepting it.
And finally . . . “Really, none of these things have anything to do with the Bush 43 administration or even republicans in general . . . ”
And so the “truth” – as arbitrary and ideological and wholly unsavory as it may be in your hands – comes out in the end, eh? And you’re equally at fault for promoting it.
But I do agree with you on one thing – “Next time you come here to our house, come with a supportable argument . . . I’m getting tired of your bilious invective.”
Do you think that not knowing what’s in your contract makes you exempt from its provisions? Did you also know, when you first enlisted, that you were signing an 8 year contract, and could be recalled to active duty any time between between your active obligation and that date? It was certainly explained to me when I first joined.
“Always a little too easy for the sailors to blame the soldiers, ain’t it? Typically conservative point of view – don’t worry about the solution, assign blame for the problem and then wine about it.”
The only person I see here whining about it is YOU. And no, I’m not blaming the soldiers, I’m blaming the bureaucracy that allowed it. Once it came to light, money was found and the problem was fixed. But you really don’t care about that, do you? You act as if it were a convenient club with which to bash a President.
No, keeping Dover closed to the press was not for the reasons you cite, but the opposite. It was to keep it from being used as you are attempting to use it – exploiting them for scoring petty political shots. They were no longer under that cover once they leave for their ultimate destination. It’s not honoring them to use them in that manner.
YOU are the one who paints the picture as being a Republican caused problem (Republicans have no respect for veterans, they only create them). So when I mention Republicans in their defense, somehow I’m “arbitrary and ideological and wholly unsavory”? For a member of a group who is always so concerned with the nuance and grays of any given situation, you sure hold a black and white point of view, wholly unconcerned with any fact that might contradict them.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
ATHINKINGPERSON
#88
ABSOLUTELY PERFECT, BROTHER ! I COULDN’T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF ! THIS INDEPEDENT, CONSERVATIVE, VIET NAM
VET IS IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU. WOULD THAT THERE WERE MORE LIKE YOU AND BILGEMAN IN THE WORLD – IT WOULD BE A FAR BETTER PLACE !
S.M.
106. one of my own wrote:
Really? How much did pay go up for enlisted personnel and retired military?
Peter writes: I can’t give you exact figures, but I know my pay increase was much more noticable under Bush43 than it was under Clinton.
The “NEW” veterans.
Obama announced plans for a massive new government organization in July.
“Loving your country shouldn’t just mean watching fireworks on the 4th of July,” he said. “Loving your country must mean accepting your responsibility to do your part to change it. If you do, your life will be richer, our country will be stronger.”…
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”
What does this mean?
Now we know!
Three days after the inauguration.
Excerpts from DoD Directive
Department of Defense
DIRECTIVE
NUMBER 1404.10
23 January 2009
USD(P&R)
SUBJECT: DoD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce
1. PURPOSE. This Directive:
a. Reissues DoD Directive (DoDD) 1404.10 (Reference (a)) under a new title to establish the
policy through which an appropriately sized subset of the DoD civilian workforce is preidentified
to be organized, trained, and equipped in a manner that facilitates the use of their
capabilities for operational requirements. These requirements are typically away from the
normal work locations of DoD civilians, or in situations where other civilians may be evacuated
to assist military forces where the use of DoD civilians is appropriate. These employees shall be
collectively known as the DoD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce. Members of the DoD
Civilian Expeditionary Workforce shall be organized, trained, cleared, equipped, and ready to
deploy in support of combat operations by the military; contingencies; emergency operations;
humanitarian missions; disaster relief; restoration of order; drug interdiction; and stability
operations of the Department of Defense in accordance with DoDD 3000.05 (Reference (b)).
4. POLICY. It is DoD policy to:
a. Rely on a mix of capable military members and DoD civilian employees to meet DoD
global national security mission requirements. DoD civilian employees are an integral part of
the Total Force. They serve in a variety of positions, provide essential capabilities and, where
appropriate for civilians to do so, support mission requirements such as combat, contingencies,
emergency operations; humanitarian and civic assistance activities; disaster relief; restoration of
order; drug interdiction; and stability operations of the Department of Defense, herein
collectively referred to as “expeditionary requirements.”
b. Identify a subset of the DoD civilian workforce as the DoD Civilian Expeditionary
Workforce. These civilian employees are organized, ready, trained, cleared, and equipped in a
manner that enhances their availability to mobilize and respond urgently to expeditionary
requirements. As practicable,
(1) To support workforce stability and deployment predictability, the timeframes during
which the DoD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce is susceptible to expeditionary assignments
will be designated in 6-month rotational periods. Tours will be determined through collaboration
of the combatant commanders, career field managers, functional community managers, and
civilian employees, as applicable. The portion of the DoD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce
that is within the 6-month window of deployment susceptibility shall maintain full preparedness
as trained, cleared, and ready.
d. Designate and annually review the DoD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce that will be
coded as:
(1) Emergency Essential (E-E). A position-based designation to support the success of
combat operations or the availability of combat-essential systems in accordance with section
1580 of title 10, United States Code (U.S.C.) (Reference (e)) and will be designated as Key in
accordance with paragraph 4.d.(5).
(2) Non-Combat Essential (NCE). A position-based designation to support the
expeditionary requirements in other than combat or combat support situations and will be
designated as Key in accordance with paragraph 4.d.(5).
“The GOP is essentially dead. All you’ve got is a cast of cartoon characters – Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber, Bobby Jindall and Rush Limbaugh. Actual “working people” fled your party a long time ago when they realized how little Republicans care about the middle class”.
Steve P:
You got it wrong. Are you talking about the elitist Democrats/Liberals that doesn’t give a damn about others and only about themselves. Also are you talking about the Democrats/Liberals that shouts out different races. They don’t see everyone as one. The Democrats/Liberals are a whole bunch of racist.
Funding Hamas terrorists that kill our soldiers, cozying up to Iran, jetting around the country instead of doing his job. This guy would be a joke if he were not so scary and immoral. Everyday a new atrocity. He is hell bent on destroying our country and why the majority can’t seem to grasp this is beyond me. He is nothing more that a domestic terrorist himself in my mind. Deliberate detruction of our economy, our military, our health care, our very culture and basic freedoms. He is appalling and evil. I despise him beyond belief. He is not a unifier. I don’t even think he is an American. I don’t know who he is or who sent him but he is hell bent on destruction. This deal with the soldiers and their medical care is beyond digusting. If he were a real American, the thought of doing this evil deed to our soldiers would not have even crossed his mind. He is living proof that elections and affirmative action have very profound consequences
It doesn`t get any lower than this. Taking medical away from wounded soldiers? Barack`s mother must be so proud of him.
We are throwing hard earned tax $$$ at illegals, ACORN and thousands of other useless deadhole social programs and this guy thought this would be a good idea??
A nation that does not take care of its wounded war vets is a morally bankrupt nation.
Double shame on you Barack!! You are a sociopath……
How come we can spend $900 million (almost a billion) bucks on the Paleosimian savages, but we don’t want to spend the money on veterans’ care?
That’s because the priorities have changed. And it has been noticed.
135. fred:
How come we can spend $900 million (almost a billion) bucks on the Paleosimian savages, but we don’t want to spend the money on veteran’s care?
That’s because the priorities have changed. And it has been noticed.
——————
That’s correct fred, the populice is paying attention and it has been noticed, hence, more and more polls coming out like this:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_ballot/generic_congressional_ballot.
——————
128. Jeff Weimer, Excellent, coherent arguments sir, backed up with actual facts! Once again, the liberal troll spewing nothing but hateful Olberman’esque talking points gets… owned!
128 . . . Re: Walter Reed, “Once it came to light, money was found and the problem was fixed. But you really don’t care about that, do you? You act as if it were a convenient club with which to bash a President.”
Situational ethics at its best. No, I don’t care about it. You act as though this facility was on the moon, that Building 18 was in Area 51 invisible to the eyes of the world. How many grandstanding politicians bragged about “seeing our boys and girls at Walter Reed” and yet not one peep of concern. No, it took a Washington Post reporter to share the outrageous conditions with the world. Quite a stark contrast to Bush’s chronic euphemisms for respect: “We owe them all we can give them,” Bush said. “Not only for when they’re in harm’s way, but when they come home to help them adjust if they have wounds, or help them adjust after their time in service.” What a croc of shit. Nothing would be different today if the administration the department of defense hadn’t been busted n their negligence. Far from me using it as a club, you prefer to use it as though it illustrates some deep commitment to excellence in service to our military. “Look! President Bush is fixing a terrible problem wildly exacerbated by his provision of endless battle casualties and utter neglect. He’s something isn’t he! Thank you, Mr. President, for going the extra mile for our brave young men and women in harm’s way.” You seem like a pretty bright guy. Don’t t yourself get played like that.
136 fireyourgubs . . . More mealy mouth-isims in an attempt to take the sting out of the wounds you’ve been licking the last week. Go ride your lawnmower.
BC and Middleman you two are a piece of work. The Veterans deserve treatment in any hospital for free. There shouldn’t be a question of insurance of any kind they just get the best treatment period. And don’t tell me about universal health care crap. Why don’t we ask the family of Natasha Richardson about Canada’s lack of trauma centers and air ambulance service. WE DO NOT WANT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.
nobama is a LOSER on so many subjects. I thought clinton was a clown and a joke when he was elected and the gaffes and messes he and his administration made but obama wins the loser award. he can’t even find people to fill his cabinet positions because all of the folks he wants are tax cheats. He just runs willy nilly through the country throwing out “ideas” and this one about the vets is the absolute worst. And I hope that all of the vets who foolishly voted for him will rethink their position in 2012. He is jimmy carter jr and he is one and done come 2012.
137. one of my own:
You’re setting up a strawman with that last argument, but in knocking it down, you completely miss attacking my point. A thought experiment – and a bit of a strawman of my own: If this were to have been exposed during, say, the Clinton administration (conflict on or no), there would have been a similar hue and cry and questions on “how could this have happened?” But it would not have been laid at the President’s feet, and rightly so. It would have been “What the hell is the Army doing?” The Navy had an equivalent embarrassment in 1992, called “Tailhook.” Did it have people calling for the President’s (then Bush 41) head? No. It was laid at the feet of Navy leadership, where it belonged. this situation is no different.
Now, when you’re in charge and one of your subordinates has some bad news he’s hiding – the “senior man with a secret” syndrome, when it comes out, you get some blowback, too. That’s understandable. It was an embarrassment for the President and the rest of the Chain of Command and the Army itself. It was a travesty and the wounded deserve more than they got. That’s not in dispute. I wish found out sooner, they should have found out sooner. It is sad that it took the Washington Post to bring it up, that’s unacceptable. But the failure is the Army’s, not the President’s. The Army was negligent not only accepting those conditions, but for not bringing it to the attention of the chain of command to get the help their soldiers needed.
But this came out under Bush, and you, because you already don’t like him for many reasons, insist on puffing this up like a marshmallow in a microwave until it looks like yet another searing indictment of everything Bush did. But it’s still just as full of hot air as that marshmallow. And it makes you look foolish.
V/R,
Jeff Weimer
http://navy.togetherweserved.com/profile/159924
Can’t remember which person it was who said the GOP has destroyed the middleclass, I always wonder when they say that which party do the big and small business tend to belong to? Furthermore, I am aware that there are lot of small business and perhaps large ones (Microsoft) who support the Democrats. My question in regard to the middleclass is what will happen to it once the present president and congress will give amnesty to all illegals and future illegals? What will happen to our middleclass after that happens. I also realize that the GOP is weak on this subject as well. Blaming one party for the eradication of the middleclass is ignorant. Remmember that back in 1964 everyone thought the GOP was dead as well.
#140 Gary – Big business is now in the pockets of the Dems. The Dems got tired of being drubbed in fund-raising by the Pubs, and so decided to become more business-friendly. That’s a fancy way of saying more corrupt. Small businesses, by and large, still support the Pubs. I know many small-business owners, and they are all Pubs.
Big business gave 4x as much to the Dems than to the Pubs. The same is true for trial lawyers and doctors. All those who skim wealth, rather than create it, support the Dems.
#141:Marc Malone:What we have is a two tiered econmic system,with a corrupt financial sector in the hands of a left-wing,hyper-rich globalist,anti american plutocracy,ravaging and sourcing out the productive sectors of the economy:heavy industry, light industry, mining, refining,and small business.It’s a civil war between the non-productive,and against, the useful sectors of the economy,using “progressive’ideology,to undermine traditional american self-reliance and fiscal prudence,to induce consumerist fecklessness,and create a “bubble economy”dependent on credit not production. The goal of the left wing plutocrats, is the destruction of the american middle class and the creation of a Mexico-type dysfunctional state run by a kleptocracy.Steve P oomyo,and ultimately Obama himself,serve as their useful idiots,helping to cloak a monstruous grab for power.
Steve P(PUS)#57 It’s funny to watch the mental contortions of your terminally corrupt mind as you try to blame Republicans, for the O’hole’s depraved plan to withhold medical care from wounded vets.Your messiah wants to stint our wounded warriors,even as he throws public money at the improvident rabble who lied about their incomes to buy homes they could not afford.To try and save money on the backs of our wounded, reveals the utter degeneracy at the core of your teleprompter -dependent messiah.He revealed himself to the American people as the turd we at PJM always said he was,and you have shown yourself as his deranged intellectually dishonest acolyte.Go drain the pus out of head!
#137OOMO:Assuming all you say about the neglect and ineptitude of the VA(government run health care)is true,you’ve just made the argument for stopping Ohole’s attempt to nationalize health care. THANK YOU OOMO!
Ole Miss Rebel,
I’m not disagreeing that Vets should receive health care from the government.
My main argument is that you guys are blowing smoke and jumping to conclusions on what essentially is a brain fart. Meanwhile the Administration is planning on BOOSTING funds, yet you aren’t willing to give any degree of support or credit because of your obvious bias.
General Shinseki ISN’T the Army Chief of Staff anymore. The current Army Chief of Staff is General Casey.
Active Duty pay rose about 3-3.5% per year during the Bush years, in addition to the raises that military personnel were entitled to based on promotions and years of service. Retired pay is based on the number of years of service and the average of the highest three years’ salary. You must serve at least 20 years or retire due to disability in order to earn a pension. The pension is calculated as follows: Monthly pension = 2.5% * Number of Years of Service (1 month equals 1/12 of a year) * Average of the highest 36 months of base pay.
Are you still glad you voted for Obama? LOL
Let’s withhold care from selected, terminally psychotic individuals,and use the savings toaintain VA care for vets.I select Steve P.(pus)!
145 Don’t confuse a brain fart with a trial balloon!Besides,farting is as close as Obama can come to thought.