‘Obama the Muslim’: The Smear that Just Won’t Die
Abdelfadeel, like Aref, felt “disappointed, angry and let down,” she later wrote.
She said she was “let down that the Obama campaign continuously perpetuates this attitude towards Muslims and Arabs — as if being merely associated [with] one is a sin.”
The two women’s friends who witnessed the incidents were disappointed, too. Aref’s friend Miller said he was “shocked” by the contrast between Obama’s message and their experience.
“He was the one candidate who you would expect to stand up for something like that — and behind the scenes, you have something completely contrary to what he was running on,” said Koussan, Aref’s other friend.
Once Ben Smith at Politico got a hold of this story and confronted the campaign with it, the candidate’s director of advance, Emmett S. Beliveau, called both women and personally apologized. And to be fair to the Obama camp, Smith reports that there are photos and videos from other venues where women in hijabs were seated behind the candidate. Clearly, it was not the policy of the campaign to discriminate in this manner.
But the fact that the incident occurred reveals a more fundamental truth: the smear against Obama threatens his election as president of the United States and everyone on both sides knows it.
How did a smear like this get started? The same way most viral rumors get started today — via untraceable emails. In a Politico story last fall, Jonathan Martin discovered that the emails began in December of 2006 — nearly two months before Obama declared his candidacy. The emails contain detailed biographical information that charges the candidate with worshiping as a Muslim when he was a boy living with his mother in Indonesia, and attending a Muslim religious school or madrassa.
The story was picked up by the online Insight Magazine and spread by some conservative bloggers. It was finally picked up by Fox News in January, at which point the Obama campaign rose up and strenuously denied everything.
Follow up investigations by CNN and other media outlets provided the truth of the matter. Obama attended Catholic school for two years in Indonesia and spent another two years at a highly competitive public school that had a diverse enrollment. No madrassa. No worshiping as a Muslim. Even the Indonesian government denied the claim that Obama was a Muslim.
A variation on the theme that Obama is a Muslim involves the notion that because his father was a Muslim Obama is also a Muslim according to Islamic law and Obama’s “conversion” to Christianity makes him an apostate — a death sentence in the Muslim world.
Noted Islamic writer and activist Ali Eteraz easily debunks that theme in responding to an Edward Luttwak article published in the New York Times last month:
Obama’s Kenyan father abandoned Obama. As such, any religious imprimatur he may have had over Obama — which is already a stretch since the man was an atheist — is null and void. In such a situation, Obama’s mother’s religion is controlling. She was not Muslim. Even if someone makes the argument from patriarchy: that Obama’s paternal grandparents were his rightful guardians, that would fail since they also constructively abandoned him.
There is a corollary issue here: what about the fact that Obama’s second father, the Indonesian, was a “non-practicing Muslim.” Doesn’t his faith transfer over to Obama? The answer is no. Under Islamic law, step-fathers do not acquire ownership over the child. Their relationship to the child emanates from their relationship to the child’s mother. Again, Obama’s mother was not Muslim. If a practicing Muslim man marries a Christian woman with children from a previous marriage, her children wouldn’t automatically become Muslim. Here, the new father wasn’t even practicing.
Luttwack [sic] and the other fake experts promoting this new smear do not understand Islam. Religion is not hereditary as it is in Judaism. Islam is not a race. Just because a child has a Muslim father — which, again, Obama didn’t — doesn’t mean anything unless the child is being raised as a Muslim. At the time of birth, Muslims engage in a symbolic act — of saying the Call to Prayer in the child’s ear — that renders a child Muslim. If Obama’s father was agnostic/atheist, then he wouldn’t have done such a thing.
No call to prayer in the ear, not raised as a Muslim, born to an atheist father, and then abandoned to a Christian mother both by father and his family, equals not Muslim. Obama is right to say he had no religion until he became a Christian.
It pains me to waste space on this website attempting to tamp down these persistent and pernicious rumors that Obama is or was a Muslim. By relating the substance (more accurately, the total lack of substance) of these rumors, even the act of debunking them could be seen as promoting the smear.
But it raises the question of why it should even matter what Obama’s religion might be. Personally, I could care less if Obama was a tree-worshiping Druid. The point shouldn’t be what God he prays to but rather how he would govern the United States of America. Give me an honest, prudent atheist rather than a church going, amoral pol any day. The fact that many politicians go through the motions when it comes to their faith or attendance at church should disqualify a candidate’s religion as a major factor in determining one’s vote.
Alas, I know I’m in a minority on this issue and bow to the wisdom of the majority. But to deliberately ignore all evidence that Obama is a confirmed Christian in favor of the wildest, stupidest, most bizarre rumors regarding some kind of secret Muslim past of the candidate puts the believers of this smear and those who consciously advance it beyond the pale of civilized political discourse. For in the end, those who know better, who know full well that Obama is not a Muslim and yet continue to advance the notion that he is, are playing on the irrational fears of voters brought to the surface as a result of the attacks on 9/11.
In effect, they are using the dead bodies of 3,000 of our citizens to scare voters into voting against Obama.
The Obama camp has set up a Fight the Smears website in order to counter at least some of these viral emails that spread false and malicious rumors. I wish them well in their effort. There are a thousand reasons to vote against Barack Obama for president — all based on logic and reasonable differences on the issues. Basing your vote on a lie does a disservice to your own candidate as well as American democracy.
It’s about time this smear was laid to rest — permanently.
UPDATE: Obama’s half brother Misquoted
Jack Tapper at ABC has a transcript of the Jerusalem Post interview with Malik Obama, the candidate’s half brother, that is sweeping the loony right websites as “proof” that Obama as “raised a Muslim.”
Nowhere in the interview does Malik Obama hint, declare, intimate, or state that Barack Obama was raised a Muslim. The J-Post evidently did a sloppy job of paraphrasing what Malik Obama said.
Don’t believe me. Read the damn transcript:
It ended up on Fox News, with anchor Brut Hume saying on June 16 that: “Barack Obama is a practicing Christian, married in a Christian church, whose children were also baptized in that church. His campaign has emphasized his faith in part to dispel what the campaign calls an online smear campaign which contends among other things that Obama was raised a Muslim. There is even a statement on his official campaign website reading, quote, ‘Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian.’ But Obama’s half brother is not so sure. Malik Obama tells The Jerusalem Post that, ‘if elected his brother will be a good president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background.’”
So is it true?
No.
**
ABC News got a hold of the audio of Malik’s interview with Israel Army Radio, and Malik said nothing of the kind.
You can’t hear the questions — only Malik’s answers (listen HERE) — but whatever the interviewer asked about Obama’s father’s Muslim heritage, or the Muslim minority in Kenya, Malik said, “I don’t think that’s in any way going to be something to worry about. I myself am not speaking for him. But we are here, we love people in general. People love us. I myself love people who love me. You know, so, and I think it’s mutual. I can’t go in terms of Israel and Kenya and America, and so forth, you know, but based on what else I’ve heard him say and what I know of him as an individual, I don’t think Israel should worry too much, you know, about the connection. Because, I am a Muslim myself, and I don’t think that my being a Muslim has got anything to do with my brother being the President of the United States.”
It may be that the Israeli Army Radio interviewer asked about Obama having a “Muslim background.” But even if the interviewer did, Malik did not say that or come close to saying that.
It could be that the interviewer used the phrase, and Malik interpreted that in a way that squares with the Obama campaign’s story — that Obama’s father was a largely secular man born Muslim. We don’t know.
But nowhere in there does Malik expressly say anything about Obama having a Muslim background.
It’s a bit harsh of you to call Obama a “church going, amoral pol”, don’t you think?
Not if he’s a poseur, wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing, out for political advantage only-Muslim.
Aside from those admirable traits, he’s a flaming, anit-American liberal who’s merely representative of the generation begotten by the “greatest” one.
Self-absorbed, unloving, selfish, conceited, and power-hungry.
Want to keep your change? Hope you don’t vote Obama.
Barry, “Thow dost protest to much.”
Barry will sell us down the river, and not only to the Muslims.
MSM did a thorough ivestigation. LOL
Next Barry spin, “I did not know and of course would have never have authorized the volunteers to fail seating the women with hijabs near me.”
Rumors.
Rick Moran: I went to your web page to check your journalism background. You’ve been a freelance writer for many years. Fine.
I majored in journalism and minored in philosophy. I was elected to Phi Beta Kappa and to Kappa Tau Alpha (honors-journalism) I got a job as editor of a small city newspaper while I attended the Professional Writers’ Program at USC on a graduate fellowship. I had already had a PR job working for the top ad agency in the world earlier in my life, and a series of my interviews were published by the Japanese in English and Japanese, and my best interview appeared in in AD AGE, MADISON AVENUE, ART DIRECTION and THE NEW YORK TIMES.
I have had a long-standing interest in Aristotelian logic and have seen too many of my heroes smeared by poisoning the well. (No one drinks from a poisoned well) And I believe that’s what you’ve done to Obama’s critics. I read this column. Then, I went to Obama’s “Fight The Smear” site to see if anything had been added other than a pathetic few rebuttals and nothing had.
One of the rebutted lies on his site concerns a video that may or may not exist of Michelle and Louis Farrakan, in which she “might” have used the term “Whitey” OR was it “why did he” which seemed to fit in context, I decided to wait for video proof, but thought if this is the big October surprise, this is a big nothing.
However, on June 4, at 5:46 am. in response to your column on “Mc-Cain Obama: the gloves come off, ” Dean at 5:46 am posted a list of 28 Obama lies.
Lie 1: He began with Obama’s claim that “Selma got me born” so inspired were his parents. However, Obama was born in on August 4, 1961. and the Selma, Alabama to Montgomery march took place on March 7, 1965. Much like Hillary Clinton born October 26, 1947 claimed she’d been named after Edmund Hillary, the mountaineer who who climbed Mt. Everest , six years after Hillary was born, in 1953.
Lie 4: That Obama has strong ties to African freedom. I did as suggested and googled Obama and Odinga and found a number of articles in which Raila Odinga a very bad guy from Kenya claimed to be Obama’s cousin. Well, didn’t they say Obama was related to Cheney? However, there was a picture of Obama with Odinga and the claim by Odinga that Obama had called twice during the Hew Hampshire primary. “When Obama went to Kenya in August of 2006, he was hosted by Raila and spoke in praise of him at rallies in Nairobi… Obama’s bias for his fellow Luo (tribe) was so blatant that a Kenya government spokesman denounced Obama during his visit as Raila’s “stooge.”
Christian men, women and children in a church were put to the torch. Obama may be a Christian but his cousin, educated in East Germany, had promised to bring in Muslim Sharia law and signed a memorandum of understanding with Kenya’s muslims. Odinga had planned his own million man march (he claims the election was rigged) and on the day of the New Hampshire primary Obama called twice probably to tell him to call it off or wait till after OUR election. (that’s not fact, that’s my “deduction.”
“Obama’s older brother still lives in Kenya. Abongo “Roy” Obama is a Luo activist and a militant Muslim who argues that the black man must “liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture.” (sounds a bit like Reverend Jeremiah Wright, doesn’t he?)
Lie 6: Obama claims his name is African Swahili. Hussein is an Arab name. Barack comes from “Baraka” which means “blessed” in Arabic.
I have read Obama is also an Arab name. Barack Hussein Obama, SENIOR was 87.5% Arab, and 12.5% Negro. which makes Junior 50% white, 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% Negro. http://www.arcadeathome.com/newsboy.phtml?Barack_Hussein_Obama_-_Arab-Americ
I have seen the press sit on stories until AFTER it was too late to do anything about them (Clinton’s bimbo eruptions in Arkansas. The national press knew but said nothing until after the election)
I will research and post more on other Obama lies. Last I looked someone had a list of not 28, but 76. For you to claim that these should not be looked into when we’re dealing with electing Commander In Chief is hair-raising. I await your response.
Guess the fringe Republicans have nothing else but smears, based on imagination, with which to try and derail Obama’s campaign. Sadly, it’s just this sort of crud that the Christian Zealots and the Racists will grab on to as a “reason” to also tarnish him. As a Conservative myself, I believe that this sort of stupidity has no place in politics, where rationality should reign paramount. Indeed, I believe that such people do not deserve to have the right to vote.
No matter the smears promoted against Barack Obama he won the Democratic nomination against a much more famous and experienced politician, Hillary Clinton. I don’t see how anyone can expect a different result in the general election. This year at least it seems the anonymous smears aren’t working.
Have a good read folks. In the words of Barack Hussein Obama’s own half-brother, Malik:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12918.htm
From The Spectator (UK):
Crazed Jew-hating American-loathing moonbats posting comments on Obama’s website are one thing. But the fact is that there are serious and troubling questions about Obama’s ancestry and associations and what he himself has said about them, which have surfaced in the blogosphere but have been almost wholly ignored by the mainstream media in its collective Obamanic swoon.
First is his childhood background. Last November, his campaign website carried a statement with the headline:
Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim
followed by
Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian.
Obama has also said:
I’ve always been a Christian
and
I’ve never practised Islam.
But none of this is true. As is explored in detail on Daniel Pipes’s website, Obama was enrolled at his primary schools in Indonesia as a Muslim; he attended the mosque during that period; his friends from that time testify that he was a devout Muslim boy. A former teacher at one of these schools, Tine Hahiyary, remembers a young Obama who was quite religious and actively took part in ‘mengaji’ classes which teach how to read the Koran in Arabic. The blogger from Indonesia who reported this commented:
‘Mengagi’ is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, “mengaji classes” are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to… The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet.
His father was a Muslim, as was his stepfather. His grandfather was a Muslim convert. His wider family appear to have been largely devout Muslims. Yes, we only know about Obama’s early years as a Muslim; and yes, twenty years ago he became a Christian. The issue, however, is why he has been less than candid about his early background and his family. Indeed, he appears to have actively deceived the public about it. That is why the blogosphere is so exercised about it.
Now here’s another curious thing. Much has been made of his membership of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago whose former pastor and his long-standing mentor, Jeremiah Wright, Obama was forced finally to renounce on account of his obnoxious views (although he has signally failed unequivocally to denounce those views themselves and the no less obnoxious philosophy of the Trinity United black power church). But according to a passing reference in a profile in The New Republic last year, Pastor Wright was himself a Muslim convert to Christianity. He seems to have moved from being a Muslim black power fanatic to a Christian black power fanatic – which might go some way to explaining his close affinity to the Muslim black power ideologue Louis Farrakhan.
Then there is also Obama’s troubling support for the Kenyan opposition leader — and his cousin — Raila Odinga, the leader of the violent uprising a few months ago against the newly elected Kenyan government and who signed a memorandum of understanding with Kenyan Muslims to turn Kenya into an Islamic state governed by sharia law. At the time, the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya released a statement in which church leaders said Odinga
comes across as a presumptive Muslim president bent on forcing Islamic law, religion and culture down the throats of the Kenyan people in total disregard of the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of freedom of worship and equal protection of the law for all Kenyans.
As the Atlas Shrugs site reported, Obama actually went to Kenya in 2006 and spoke at rallies in support of Odinga, causing the Kenyan government to denounce him as ‘Raila’s stooge’. Why was Obama supporting such a person? Why has no-one bothered to find out??
Daniel Pipes makes another highly significant point about Obama’s Muslim background. He points out that, in the eyes of the Muslim world, Obama remains a Muslim regardless of what religion he now professes because he was born to a Muslim father. By his own admission (of Christianity) therefore, he is a Muslim apostate – a status regarded by the Muslim world as a sin to be punished by death. Pipes thinks this would put his life in danger and undermine his initiatives towards the Muslim world. But surely the more significant point is that much of that Muslim world has actually embraced him. Indeed the Muslim Brothers of Hamas – who most certainly would regard any Muslim apostate as someone to be eliminated – actually came out publicly in support of him (until Obama blotted his copybook by professing undying support for Israel).
We are entitled therefore to ask whether the Muslim world supports him because it believes he is still a Muslim. We are entitled to ask precisely when he stopped being a Muslim, and why. Did Obama embrace Christianity as a tactical manoeuvre to get himself elected? Why indeed has he dissembled about his family background if not for that end?
These multiple known deceptions by someone who may become President of the United States are deeply alarming. The concealment is the issue. To dismiss such concerns and the related questions they provoke as a smear campaign is to attempt to browbeat into silence those who legitimately raise them and require urgent answers as a matter of the most acute public interest.
Update: In this entry I originally included the following quote from the American Expatriate in Indonesia blog quoted above: ‘Another of Obama’s former classmates, Emirsyah Satar, now CEO of Garuda Indonesia, has been quoted as saying: At that time, he was quite religious in Islam but after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion.’ It has been pointed out to me that comments posted on that blog claimed that this was a mistranslation, and that the quote attributed to Satar was written instead by the author of the article.
Rick Moran, I went to your site “Right Wing Nut House”. You named it, I didn’t.
You cited CNN’s “investigation.” Some investigation. Let me tell you about CNN and Paul Tsongas in 1992. Senator Tsongas made a speech that impressed me. The CNN reporter who summarized Tsonga’s speech, distorted it completely. I called the CNN “producer” (TV equivalent of newspaper editor) told him the summary was wrong and he could check for himself by watching a repeat of the speech on C-Span. I think the reporter was then assigned to CNN Siberia where he stayed for many years.
I will check to see what other thorough “investigations” the main stream media has made. It would have helped if you’d cited more “reliable sources.” Not everything being said about Obama may be true but that’s no reason to say that everyone criticizing the man is a “dupe” or that “irrational beliefs” are being promulgated by “online smear merchants” From what you say in your article I guess you’d regard me as one of the “lunatic fringe,” since I’ve quoted the most alarming information I’ve found on Google and elsewhere. I have not made any of the charges you rebut before you end by saying case closed.
By the way, your”name calling” is referred to as the AD HOMINEM fallacy in logic: you’re attacking the person instead of the idea. You’re not proving the comments are mistaken. You’re saying they’re being made by a “lunatic fringe” and should be ignored. The fallacy is called “poisoning the well.” (no one will drink from a poisoned well. No one will pay attention to “online smear merchants”)
I’m going to have to start a blog on Logic 101 and post my list of logical fallacies. It will obviously come in handy in this campaign. I look forward to reading your comments and seeing where I’m being “duped.”
“Sandra M,” I also have noticed the unfortunate tendency of Obama cheerleaders posing as “journalists”….
This whole force out there shouting “it’s a smear!” reminds me more of children who stick their fingers in their ears, squint their eyes shut reaaaalllly hard, and shout, “I’m not listening! You’re not saying anything! I’m right I’m right I’m right lalalalala…”.
How immature. How irresponsible.
From The Spectator (UK):
“…Crazed Jew-hating American-loathing moonbats posting comments on Obama’s website are one thing. But the fact is that there are serious and troubling questions about Obama’s ancestry and associations and what he himself has said about them, which have surfaced in the blogosphere but have been almost wholly ignored by the mainstream media in its collective Obamanic swoon.
First is his childhood background. Last November, his campaign website carried a statement with the headline:
Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim
followed by
Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian.
Obama has also said:
I’ve always been a Christian
and
I’ve never practised Islam.
But none of this is true. As is explored in detail on Daniel Pipes’s website, Obama was enrolled at his primary schools in Indonesia as a Muslim; he attended the mosque during that period; his friends from that time testify that he was a devout Muslim boy. A former teacher at one of these schools, Tine Hahiyary, remembers a young Obama who was quite religious and actively took part in ‘mengaji’ classes which teach how to read the Koran in Arabic. The blogger from Indonesia who reported this commented:
‘Mengagi’ is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, “mengaji classes” are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to… The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet.
His father was a Muslim, as was his stepfather. His grandfather was a Muslim convert. His wider family appear to have been largely devout Muslims. Yes, we only know about Obama’s early years as a Muslim; and yes, twenty years ago he became a Christian. The issue, however, is why he has been less than candid about his early background and his family. Indeed, he appears to have actively deceived the public about it. That is why the blogosphere is so exercised about it.
Now here’s another curious thing. Much has been made of his membership of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago whose former pastor and his long-standing mentor, Jeremiah Wright, Obama was forced finally to renounce on account of his obnoxious views (although he has signally failed unequivocally to denounce those views themselves and the no less obnoxious philosophy of the Trinity United black power church). But according to a passing reference in a profile in The New Republic last year, Pastor Wright was himself a Muslim convert to Christianity. He seems to have moved from being a Muslim black power fanatic to a Christian black power fanatic – which might go some way to explaining his close affinity to the Muslim black power ideologue Louis Farrakhan.
Then there is also Obama’s troubling support for the Kenyan opposition leader — and his cousin — Raila Odinga, the leader of the violent uprising a few months ago against the newly elected Kenyan government and who signed a memorandum of understanding with Kenyan Muslims to turn Kenya into an Islamic state governed by sharia law. At the time, the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya released a statement in which church leaders said Odinga
comes across as a presumptive Muslim president bent on forcing Islamic law, religion and culture down the throats of the Kenyan people in total disregard of the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of freedom of worship and equal protection of the law for all Kenyans.
As the Atlas Shrugs site reported, Obama actually went to Kenya in 2006 and spoke at rallies in support of Odinga, causing the Kenyan government to denounce him as ‘Raila’s stooge’. Why was Obama supporting such a person? Why has no-one bothered to find out??
Daniel Pipes makes another highly significant point about Obama’s Muslim background. He points out that, in the eyes of the Muslim world, Obama remains a Muslim regardless of what religion he now professes because he was born to a Muslim father. By his own admission (of Christianity) therefore, he is a Muslim apostate – a status regarded by the Muslim world as a sin to be punished by death. Pipes thinks this would put his life in danger and undermine his initiatives towards the Muslim world. But surely the more significant point is that much of that Muslim world has actually embraced him. Indeed the Muslim Brothers of Hamas – who most certainly would regard any Muslim apostate as someone to be eliminated – actually came out publicly in support of him (until Obama blotted his copybook by professing undying support for Israel).
We are entitled therefore to ask whether the Muslim world supports him because it believes he is still a Muslim. We are entitled to ask precisely when he stopped being a Muslim, and why. Did Obama embrace Christianity as a tactical manoeuvre to get himself elected? Why indeed has he dissembled about his family background if not for that end?
These multiple known deceptions by someone who may become President of the United States are deeply alarming. The concealment is the issue. To dismiss such concerns and the related questions they provoke as a smear campaign is to attempt to browbeat into silence those who legitimately raise them and require urgent answers as a matter of the most acute public interest.
Update: In this entry I originally included the following quote from the American Expatriate in Indonesia blog quoted above: ‘Another of Obama’s former classmates, Emirsyah Satar, now CEO of Garuda Indonesia, has been quoted as saying: At that time, he was quite religious in Islam but after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion.’ It has been pointed out to me that comments posted on that blog claimed that this was a mistranslation, and that the quote attributed to Satar was written instead by the author of the article.”
Anu:
Sandra M,
it’s true what you wrote about Odinga and Raila, sad and horrible.
But, I’d like to know how senator Obama, if he is a muslim, can claim to be a Christian. You see, if a Muslim denounces his fate he’s in for a fatwa which in this case would be a death sentence.Senator Obama has made it very clear that at least for the past 20 years, he’s been a devout Christian.
This “Muslim smear” is probably the least of Obama’s problems, though it does seem to have a life of it’s own…
Rick, while you want to claim, legitimately, that Obama is not a Muslim NOW…there is still plenty of evidence out there that shows he WAS raised a Muslim…and in fact, Obama’s campaign had to change it’s website when caught in the lie that Obama never prayed in a mosque:
http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/05/lie-50-obama-claimed-he-never-prayed-in.html
http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/04/indonesian-papers-report-on-obamas.html
This is all “water under the bridge” though…
it’s his behavior and lack of judgement as an ADULT that totally disqualifies him to be Commander-in-Chief. Some things about your upbringing are just hard to hide or lie about though. You can only reinvent yourself so much, and so many times, until the public finally realizes they are being “bambozzled”!
Why blame Islam?
Individuals, not religions, carry out inhuman acts.
Islam is a religion of peace, accepted and practiced by more than 1.25 billion people worldwide. It is the fastest-growing religion in the world, and if it was what some critics claim, why should the people from all walks of life from around the world keep embracing Islam? Where is the sword now?
In Islam, a person has the right to defend himself, his family, his country or his neighbor(s), which justifies the resistance being offered by the people of Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Iraq, Kashmir and Palestine, to attacks on their soils by the so-called liberators, who are actually the occupiers.
The Holy Qur’an clearly states that if a person saves one life, it’s as if he saved humanity, and if a person kills one human being, it’s as if he killed humanity.
What is happening in the enslaved Muslim countries is a natural reaction to occupation, bombings, killing and terrorizing of innocent civilians (children, old men and women), rapes, in addition to looting of resources, national antiques and artifacts, above all the destruction of their property by the occupiers.
Terror breeds terror.
We assure those who bash Islam that if there was no occupation in this world by foreign invaders, there would be no resistance – the so-called terror.
We would like those who criticize Islam to explain the following acts committed by the Christians on Jews, other Christians and Muslims alike, throughout history:
- Hundreds of thousands of Muslim men, women and children killed by the crusaders, who were Christians.
- Inquisition of Jews and Muslims from Spain by Queen Isabella, a Christian.
- Millions of people killed by the European and American Christians during the two world wars and the civil wars.
- Atrocities committed on millions of Jews and Christians by Adolph Hitler, a professed Christian.
- Hundreds of thousands of Christians killed every year by the Irish Christians, including the British and the IRA, both Catholics and Protestants, during the past few centuries. Why they are not blamed to be “Christian Terrorists?”
Both of them believe in Jesus Christ, who told them to turn the other cheek, and both of them believe in the same Lord, Who commanded that “Thou shall not kill.” Period.
- Timothy McVeigh, who bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, was a Catholic. Are all Catholics terrorists?
For more than sixty (60) years, the Zionists are actively involved in the genocide of a whole nation, killing a number of Muslims in the occupied territories of Palestine on a daily basis with machine guns, missiles from helicopters, tanks, and bombs from F16s, under the watch of the western countries, the so-called champions of the human rights. How do you explain that?
Just by labeling the freedom fighters as terrorists and launching another holocaust on the poor Palestinians as revenge will not wipe out the crimes or the guilt of Hitler! Where are the justice, equality, freedom, and above all the human tights of Palestinians, dead or alive, propagated by these champions of human rights?
Last but not least, the bombings, killings, lynching, murders and raping of innocent Native American Indians and black slaves (Afro-Americans) committed by the so-called Christians in the United States during the past 200 years of history. What about them?
Will those filled with hate for Islam blame Christianity for the above inhuman acts by Christians in various parts of the world since its inception?
If not, then why are they blaming the religion of Islam for what is a natural reaction to occupation of Muslim countries by foreign invaders?
Most importantly, these folks should know that the three (3) great Abrahamic religions – Judaism, Christianity and Islam – have one common basis, and that is one God Almighty.
“All men (and women) are created equal, and we all are one nation under Almighty God,” is a clear cut statement according to the Holy Qur’an and is very well elucidated in the Constitution of these United States, one of the champions of the human rights.
Lastly, yet importantly, as brothers in humanity, we recommend those Islamophobists filled with prejudice to get life and an education in the history of Islam and Muslims, before they dare to write nasty letters, articles, and news releases, using out of context verses from the Holy Qur’an and distorted statements from the true traditions of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him), full of personal, ingrain hate and vendetta against Islam and Muslims.
We would be pleased to provide anyone with free copies of the Holy Qur’an and Islamic literature in English or any other language, which would help them to understand the truth about Islam and Muslims and get rid of all hate from their systems, God willing.
May God Almighty show the light to all those, who believe in one mankind, as children of Adam and Eve, hence brothers and sisters, no matter what they believe in, Amen.
“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.”
- Samuel P. Huntington (author The Clash Of Civilisations)
Nice try Moran, you have managed to discredit yourself as well as Obama by smearing those who are seeking the truth about an unknown, untested and possibly an extremely flawed candidate. It is obvious that you have no interest in vetting Obama and like his supporters you continue to blame those that do not drink the koolaid of Obama worship as irrational smear merchants…I suggest you look in the mirror and you will see the real smear merchant.
Obama’s African 1/2 brother states that Obama was born a Muslim…so he is an apostate at best. Go for the truth, not some politically correct absolution of Obama!
Sad to see Pajamas Media become a fireman for Obama and the left.
No, Obama isn’t a Muslim, and he isn’t a Christian either. The god he most likely believes in is Obama. Pretty small change as far as Supreme Beings go.
That said, Obama the Muslim is a crude but useful package for legitimate questions about this man, his core beliefs, his upbringing, his early influences and whether he even considers himself an American. Of course, he is legally, but he get America? Doubt it. His leftish sullen mother didn;’t. His father didn’t, and there’d be no reason why he should. His international experiences as a child would make him more a citizen of the world than of the USA. Then we have his delightful wife, his spiritual father, Rev Wright. His initial failure to understand why wearing a little flag on his lapel would matter to Americans is revealing. So we have here a tapestry woven with little troubling doubts. Obama is a muslim is a much simpler and direct way of putting the matter.
It’s unwise for McCain to descend to saying this; the public doesn’t want mud slinging. At any rate they don’t want to see any traces of mud on the next President’s hands. But GOP irregulars–we partisans–can and should keep sniping at him.
Quashing such smears and rumors oblige the Obamaites to divert resources and time. Also, these attacks put him on the defensive, where we are learning Mr Obama does not perform well. How many times did he change his story with respect to the Rev Wright scandal?
If you think that question is ancient history, then let’s pose a parallel one: How many times will President Obama have to correct himself and explain to world leaders what he “should have said”?
Obama was born to a Muslim father therefore he is a muslim. It is not a lie.
‘Rumor won’t die.’ Then stop talking about it.
I think there are important distinctions to be made. What the “Muslim rules” are for who is considered a follower and who is not is an irrelevant point. If I belong to a group as a child and they say I’m still considered one of them by their rules I find that almost amusing.
Obama’s religious practices may be only marginally Christian, but they are certainly not Muslim (They’re rather Unitarian Universalist, actually). The only reasonable question is whether his background and relatives would cause him to exercise poor judgment for emotional reasons, his vision clouded by unacknowledged favoritism.
Frankly, we don’t even need to know that in his case, though it might be pertinent with some other Muslim-raised (or anything-raised) person. Obama has already shown enough poor judgment and clouded vision because of his academic radical leanings to make his childhood religious practice irrelevant.
Qazi:
Comparing the crusades to modern day atrocities inflicted upon the world in the name of the death cult islam is just stupid. BTW the crusades were defensive measures to combat the forced conversion of the holy land by muslim invaders.
I don’t care if Obama was a Muslim or wasn’t. Personally, I do care about his character, which has been shown to be deficient in his handling of the entire Rev. Wright debacle, and his many gaffes. He’s a self-absorbed politician who stands for nothing other than being elected President.
Still, that’s nothing particularly new.
Can we get back to the issues and ideas, and argue those instead? I’m sick of smear politics and general incivility in political discourse. Just because the target changes from Bush to Obama doesn’t make it any more palatable.
Barack Obama’s father was a Moslem who allegedly became an atheist from Islam, Barack Obama, by virtue of being born to a Moslem father, was also a Moslem. Barack Obama later converted to some form of Christianity, according to his own admission, thus he is now a Christian with a Moslem background. I frankly do not care that he was born a Moslem but I very much care that he and his fanatic followers are trying so hard, up to and including lying, in order to blur Barack Obama’s religious and ethnic past. If Barack Obama cannot be honest about so fundamental an issue, what else will he be dishonest about?
Obama has to be a Muslim, because the people here hate him and they hate Muslims, so therefore, by the transitive property of stupidity, Obama is a Muslim.
>>>>‘Rumor won’t die.’ Then stop talking about it.
Um, maybe because Obama is playing “Denunciation Wars” and anybody who fails to denounce smear jobs with sufficient vigor is then accused of complicity?
The rules are:
If you say something bad about Obama, it’s a lie, an untruth, a vicious rumor, and you must be silent.
If somebody is saying something bad about Obama and you tell them to shut up because it’s an untruth, a vicious rumor, you must be silent because otherwise you’re just spreading a vicious lie.
If somebody is saying something bad about Obama and you remain silent, then you’re complicit in spreading a vicious lie.
Hey, isn’t that a photograph of Obama in traditional Muslim garb, accompanying your article about how there’s no way he was ever a Muslim?
In fact, Obama was born and raised a Muslim by his Muslim parents in Kenya. He later became an apostate – a sin for which many Muslims are murdered – by rejecting Allah and embracing the Christian religion.
That’s not a rumour. That’s a fact. And if you don’t believe me, I suggest you go interview Obama. Because it’s clear that you haven’t.
we are often told that islam is a “religion of peace”—if this is so—–then this claim is a falsehood, and a lie—but not a “smear”
This article by Mr. Moran is a disappointment.
I see rambling argument by assertion, special pleading, ad hominem attacks, and straw man constructs among other fallacies. I don’t see a piece of good journalism. I don’t see proof.
I don’t believe Obama is now a Muslim, but I have seen sufficient evidence that concinces me he may have been raised as a nominal Muslim while a boy.
Also, based on what I have read and observed so far about the man — he appears to embellish and edit his past to create a clever and deliberate impression until irrefutable facts get in the way. (He never heard Reverend Wright slander America or launch into white-hating race baiting, his soon-to-be sentenced chum is not the Tony Rezko felon he once knew, he barely knows Bill Ayers…) When facts intrude, Mr Obama then revises his position to comport with the new “reality”. This is extremely disturbing.
As for not caring which god a candidate believes in, which Mr. Moran asserts as his position, such glib insouciance makes me shudder. If he knew much about Islam, and hadn’t fecklessly subscribed to the sinister obscrantism of a notorious Islamic apologist such as Eli Eteraz, Mr. Moran would know that the triumphalist genocidal Jew-hating Christian-loathing but most of all unbeliever-exterminating supremacist god known as “Allah” (which the Muslims worship) is a terrifying god indeed. But Mr. Moran is (sadly) not alone in his lazy and deadly blitheness. He joins our entire State Department, much of our law enforcement, nearly the entire executive branch under Bush, nearly the entire MSM, and nearly the entire American Academy, in subscribing to the insanity that Islam is a religion of peace, that we have nothing to fear from Muslims or Islam. He also joins many of those in resorting to the slander that those among us who warn otherwise are the worst kinds of bigots, racists, and demagogues. This is political correctness run amok.
How unfortunate, then, that an article which purports to debunk a set of nasty unwarranted lies actualy does much to perpetuate a much larger nasty lie: those who are worried about Obama’s slippery murky past, those who probe his sympathies and Islamic background are terrible fringe actors and lunatics of the worst kind. Shame on you, Rick Moran.
If you are born a Muslim, you ARE a Muslim. Period. Denying Islam doesn’t change your status as a Muslim, it just means your head will be cut off as soon as some other Muslims get their hands on you.
You can deny Mohammed and Allah, but you are STILL a Muslim. Sorry folks, but that is a fact, according to the laws of Islam.
One of the biggest problems between Western Civilization and Islamic civilization is that Christians think Islam is just like Christianity only the names are changed. Nothing could be more wrong then that. Christianity is sort of a Lazy religion. Islam isn’t.
Don’t take my word for it. contact one of these people , who have been thru the process and know from being there what is going on;
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/apostates.htm
AFAIK, only Jews and Muslims demand death for apostates. Here is an explanation of the process from the POV of a Muslim;
http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostasy/5.htm
Last time I researched this, I found a ruling from an 18th century Shir’ia court on the subject, that to the best of my knowledge, still stands. I can’t find it now, I have forgotten what question I asked to get me there.
Memory is the second thing to go.
Can we get back to the issues and ideas, and argue those instead?
Actually, since Obama is a nothing more than a provincial liberal in every respect, there is no need to discuss ‘issues and ideas’. We already know Obama’s responses before he utters them: Unlimited government and hyper-regulation are the solution, paid for through vindictive tax rates on anybody who pays taxes (or more generally, those who do not vote for Democrats).
What’s to discuss?
Additionally, since Obama has no track record to speak of, we have no choice but to discuss his character and issues such as his loyalty to the country he wants to lead. We can’t discuss his accomplishments because he has none.
If we can’t even talk about his background, we’re essentially left with nothing to talk about except the empty rhetorical promises of a … politician.
Yeah. Good idea. Base your vote for the leader of the free world on campaign promises alone.
Real great idea.
He practiced Islam. He is now Christian. Was he radical? Likely not. Is it beyond belief that in the first real election since 9-11 that Americans want to elect a man with no experience, crazy politics, connection to evil doers and who practiced Islam? YES.
“Pajamas Media” was so named when the main stream press was doing a smear job on the bloggers who had proved that Dan Rather’s documents on George Bush were false, something the lazy main stream press had not seriously looked into. It was an attempt to marginalize and destroy the credibility of bloggers.
The word “swiftboating” has become a term of opprobrium, but I read their book, looked at their evidence and proof and huff and puff as he might, it took John Kerry four years to decide to rebut them. Then, when another book by the Swiftboaters was announced, Kerry finally shut up and sat down.
I was archivist in our county during the Reform Party Campaign of 1992. Ross Perot was one of the nation’s most highly respected businessmen for having formed 2 great corporations. The first, Electronic Data Systems, he sold to GM, a decision he later regretted. Yes, Perot had a funny accent, but he had been a champion debater in high school and had attended Annapolis. Our Party Platform was much like the Contract With Americxa. His reason for dropping out if true rendered him unfit to be President. (He was putting his daughter’s Summer wedding ahead of the welfare of the nation). But that’s not enough for people to call him a nutcase — something they never back up. Name me a right-wing hero who hasn’t been smeared and had his background distorted. Buckley, Rand, G. Gordon Liddy, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, even Victor Davis Hanson. President Reagan was called a “dunce” until, after his death, they found boxes and boxes of essays on foreign and economic policy he’d written virtually every day after he decided to enter politics. As Tom Clancy once said, “the streets of DC are littered with the bodies of Democrats who underestimated Reagan.” . McCain was the darling of the media — until he got the nomination. Now, they’ve turned on him because they love Obama more. The press loved the Clintons and did everything they could to discredit books like UNLIMITED ACCESS by FBI Agent, Gary Aldrich. Then, when they swooned for Obama, they began saying the same things about the Clintons, Republicans always had.
Through forced famines and show trials, Walter Duranty lied about Stalin for the New York Times. Hence, when other reporters wrote the truth their editors didn’t believe them because of true it would have been in the NYT.
Herb Matthews swooned over Cuba’s “Lincoln”. who was up in the mountains with a few men. Suddenly, volunteers and money and arms started flooding into Cuba and a dictatorship was born.
I don’t need to see Michelle with Louis Farrakan. Her “gaffe” (otherwise known as an “oops” moment that she was proud of America for the first time in her life gave me enough info to not want her near the White House. Obama is non-threatening, but he’s friends with a white terrorist, Bill Ayers, a raving Black Power preacher, leading an Afrocentric church, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who he listened to for 20 years. Wright hated whites and said so. He said nasty things about America, but “disrespecting” Obama, THAT was the last straw.
Keep digging, folks. Just remember that the standards are different for us. We must be impeccable in our facts and in our logic.
I don’t care if Obama is Arab-American. I care that he lies about it. I don’t care if he was a Muslim as a child. I care that he lies about it. And everytime I catch him in a lie I wonder what else he’s lying about.
STOP THE PRESS – opposition party supporters discovered “playing with the truth” to help get their candidate elected to POTUS.
Big deal. How about the Obama camps “100 year of war in Iraq” repetitive mis-quoting of McCain?
Its all just the same old political high-jinx that goes on in election year, it just so happens that in the current climate the word “muslim” is deemed a big no-no by the politically correct dimwits so everyone gets over-excited about it when it is mentioned in relation to their boy.
Lets be honest, if the Democrats could hang some muslim/terrorism inference on McCain they wouldn’t hesitate for a heartbeat.
Everyone just wants their candidate to win so quit the fake revulsion and lets avoid the hipocrisy.
For swinging at strawmen, you’d think Rick could get more hits.
“Barack Hussein Obama is not a Muslim.”
Without further explanation, that’s a self-disproving statement, if you know the first thing about names. So then up comes the issue of apostasy, of course ignored by Moran and every other Obama obscurantist.
Once again, the act of simple observation and applying basic logic is a revolutionary and controversial act in our brave new world of hope and change.
Rick Moran
Perhaps many belive he is Muslim because of this NY Times editorial…(later retracted)….so please don’t blame this on right-wing anything.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
What gibberish, “Born a Muslim and raised a Muslim”.
What the hell does it even mean?
For example, I was born and raised in the USSR, so does it make me born and raised Communist? In fact, I hate Communism more than most Americans do, but I guess it matters not, considering I was “born and raised” Communist. Whatever course I plotted for my own life doesn’t matter, I guess.
Although I do believe that some people are “born and raised” Idiots.
Moran is a moron, how can asking questions and requiring information about a candidate be bad? THis sounds like the GW people who say the debate is over and refuse to look at the facts.Rick say it does not matter but i wonder if he would vote for a scientologist, they are part of a non violent cult unlike islam so quit with the islamic white washing you sound like a dhimmi.
Rick — you’ve got the facts wrong on this, once again. Starting to question whether you care much about the facts, at this point.
The most complete account of Obama’s experience within the Muslim religion as a child is from Daniel Pipes which can be read here:
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5544
“So then up comes the issue of apostasy, of course ignored by Moran and every other Obama obscurantist.”
Oops somebody didn’t read the second page! You’re not alone apparently.
Rick, great article; it is a fresh breeze ventilating the sometimes smelly things that happen in an election. You remind us that while the outcome of an election is important; the election process itself is even more important.
To be sure, it is disappointing to see that there is such a willing audience for this type of slander. Christopher Hitchens suggested that “People who think with their epidermis or their genitalia or their clan are the problem to begin with.”
The Democratic Party has enjoyed success, in large measure, by using identity politics and it is ironic that they must now consider the serious unintended consequences of that strategy. I am not implying that the Democrats are responsible for these rumors, they’re probably not (Hilary?); but I do think people on both sides of the fence should come to a consensus that we need to return to an issues – ideas debate.
Oh, the idiotic Daniel Pipes, who uses this article:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0703250340mar25,1,6469645,print.story?ctrack=4&cset=true
as SUPPORT for the lie that Obama was raised a Muslim. He claims the article states that Obama was registered as a Muslim in the Catholic school, but somehow he neglect this quote from the article:
“At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said Darmawan, Obama’s former teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.
The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia, also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.”
Now, why doesn’t mr. Pipes tell his readers this? Oh, yeah, he’s a liar.
But the right wing will believe anything as long as it supports their ideology.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Hmmm, smears aren’t working.
Rick…you are getting your head handed to you here. Care to respond?
Sorry, I missed where Rick uses uber-obscurantist Ali Eteraz for his information on sharia law. I’ll consult Armstrong and Aslan on my way to hopeful changing education.
Google: “He who changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.”
It would be nice if the people who say we’re all making it up would acknowledge what we’re talking about. Ultimately this is about Obama’s deceptions and denials. Somehow we’ve turned the standards for electing a president into welcoming a new kid to class from another part of the world.
Candide, don’t be an idiot. “Obama was born and raised a moslem” is not the same as “born and raised a communist because I am from the USSR”. For one, being registered a moslem and going to mosque was not a requirement in Indonesia – while it was required to become a member of the communist young league (as well as pioneers and octoberists) in the USSR at young age. Your membership in communist organizations was compulsory, and your parents could do nothing against it, no matter how much they resented it – unless they really wanted to screw up your life. Therefore, you could well be born and raised an anti-communist – and be a member of communist groups. If Obama’s parents indeed registered Obama as a moslem and put him in moslem classes and send him to the mosque, then indeed he would have beem born and raised a moslem.
Come on, stop spewing noncense. And don’t think you are the only one who was born in the USSR.
The only thing I have to say about this is that if they’re so confident he’s not Muslim, they should provide solid evidence. As it is now, all they’ve done is, erm, waffle about it. Given how very reliable Obama’s past speech has been, I’m not sure I entirely trust this particular one.
Boris…..do you mean the right wing such as the NY Times? Scroll up a little and read the NYT link to their editorial where they claim your little guy is Muslim.
In our happy democracy, the religion you belong to is the religion you profess. Rituals such as baptism neither establish nor confirm faith. Every American has the right to invent himself and reinvent himself when he sees fit, as he sees fit. It’s a free country.
Where’s the daylight between a former radiology tech reinvented as Christian minister and theologian Rev. Jeremiah Wright and a former Calypso singer (Calypso Louie) reinvented as Muslim Minister Louis Farrakhan? The core of Black Liberation Theology like the core of Black Muslim theology is racism. Sermons by both men are indistinguishable rants against America and White people.
Race not religion it at the center of Obama’s worldview. To state with conviction that he is either Christian or Muslim is absurd. Obama is an opportunist making it up as he goes along. Just as Wright and Farrakhan make up theology as they go along. It’s all in service of a cause and the cause has nothing to do with religious faith.
Bottom line? Vote sane. Vote McCain.
Hussein is the third most Islamic name after Mohammed and Ali. If you don’t start there, admitting and explaining the most obvious and basic fact, why should anyone listen?
It’s like saying Thor Helmut isn’t Nordic. Maybe, but don’t blame people for wanting a better explanation.
Then it gets confusing. Sharia, madrassas, and apostasy, oh my. It’s not my job to figure it all out. Obama should have better answers.
Nicely put, Candide.
asdfs
You can’t choose when history is relevant for your argument. And maybe it would be a good idea to learn both sides of a story before you think it’s gospel. The truth is Europe had become stagnant in every sense. And the church needed the crusades to hold power and generate wealth. So it was a early propaganda war kinda like Iraq.
The First Crusade (1095)
It was on this date, November 27, 1095, that Pope Urban II declared the First Crusade at the Council of Clermont. The purpose of the Crusade was to answer an appeal for help that Urban had received from the Byzantine Emperor, Alexius I Komnenos, to relieve the pressure by the Seljuk Turks on the Eastern Roman Empire, and to secure free access to Jerusalem for Christian pilgrims.
That, anyway, is what we learn in school history books. Rude-but-obvious questions are not encouraged, such as: Why did God allow the Muslim Turks to take control of Palestine in the first place? And: Why couldn’t the Pope ask God, rather than soldiers, to liberate the holy lands? The wealth of the Muslim occupiers and the relative poverty of the papacy are not stressed in popular accounts of the Crusades, either. But the expeditions to the so-called holy lands by soldiers bearing and wearing the cross are romanticized out of all relation to their historical function, context and purposes.
Some soldiers, surely, were attracted to the cause through religious fervor. But there were three stronger reasons why the First Crusade was joined. One was the booty to be carried home and another was simply a love of fighting in the brutalized Middle Ages. The third reason was a bit more complicated, but in the context of a Christendom that was 95 percent serfs — that is, little better than slaves — if enough booty could be captured on the Crusade, a good soldier might buy his freedom from the manor! “Famine and pestilence at home,” says Barker, “drove men to emigrate hopefully to the Golden East.”[1] Also, as Walsh put it, “for the lower classes in the West life had become almost intolerable because of the oppression of the nobles, the frequent wars, and the almost servile duties that feudalism enjoined.”[2]
The nobles and leaders of the soldiers had their own purposes: they were “intent solely on their private interest … that of carving out principalities for themselves,” as the Cambridge Medieval History puts it.[3] Another historian says that “only of a few of the Crusaders can we predicate absolute purity of motive.”[4]
An illuminated depiction of the First Crusade
Pope Urban II preaches the First Crusade
As for the 60-year-old Urban’s motives, there is little debate among serious historians. He saw an opportunity to subjugate the Greek Church to the sovereignty of Rome.[5] “The wealth of our enemies,” he said in calling the First Crusade, “will be yours, and you will despoil them of their treasures.”[6] And he tantalized his audience with the words, “the land is fruitful above others, like another paradise of delights.”[7] Urban also described atrocities the Turks visited on the Greek Christians, which was a calculated lie. Since hardly anyone but priests could read, there was no way to verify the Pope’s charges. And the Christian knights, who until this time killed each other with great relish, could now pursue their favorite hobby in the service of God.
Ironically, Urban II didn’t live to learn of his victory: He died in 1099, and conquest was consummated only in 1101. It is generally agreed there were seven more crusades.[8] What remains unsettled is their benefits. On the plus side, the transit of soldiers revived trade with foreign lands, and the respite from the brutality of the lords gave the serfs a taste for freedom.
On the minus side, the Crusades are often touted as a harbinger of the revival of Europe from the intellectual slumber of the Dark Ages through contact with a higher civilization. In fact, it was peaceful contact with Spanish Muslims, not warfare with Palestinian Muslims, that awakened Europe. The only other benefit generally acknowledged is an enrichment of the Church of Rome, followed by extravagance, corruption, selling indulgences, massacres of religious dissenters, and the establishment of the Inquisition — a legacy of Innocent III, who called the Fourth Crusade, the one that sacked a Christian city!
My opinion is ALL RELIGION is a joke. There might be some GOD, but secular religion just causes problems and is constantly a political distraction. It does some good for charities and for people that need a crutch. There are no chosen people.
The rumors in poltical campaigns are unfair and should always be taken with a large grain of salt; however, the tactics that I have seen Obama and his campaign use to start or dispell rumors should be considered more seriously then the rumor itself. It tells you a great deal about the man. I am not impressed. In my opinion…Nothing new here folks. Just move along. Maybe we will have a couple of real candidate to vote for in 2012.
I find the Daniel Pipes articles, Barack Obama’s Muslim Childhood being the latest, persuasive that there is more to this story than the denunciations from the Obama campaign or CNN or Rick Moran. Pipes presents a thoughtful piece with numerous cites that I would like to see rebutted–rather than the claims of a viral email–before anyone declares this issue has been settled as a smear.
Appealing to Ali Eteraz is no help. He is a disingenuous apologist for Islam. See his numerous, weaselly, often nasty exchanges with Robert Spenser of Jihadwatch.
It doesn’t matter to me if Obama did or didn’t practice Islam as a child. However, he is a very unusual, if not downright bizarre, candidate and many of the criticisms of him are valid. It would be wrong for those criticisms, some of which sound almost as strange as the claim that Obama was a Muslim, to be tossed casually into a trash bin labeled “Smears” which is the way the Obama campaign prefers to dispose of such criticisms.
“Islam is a religion of peace, accepted and practiced by more than 1.25 billion people worldwide.”
Two lies here.
First is that peace thingie. Given the Islamic practice of wholesale slaughter of women and children, where are your facts supporting the theory that Islam is a religion of peace? Islam CLAIMS to be a religion of peace, but the reality, as proven by countless inhumane murders over the centuries, gives that claim the lie.
Second, if there are 1.25 billion Muslims, where are they? When you go thru and add up the UN numbers by country by religion, you get about 800 million. The CIA numbers are a little higher, about 875 million. So where are those other 400 million? They are not in my basement. Maybe CAIR has them stashed in the attic? A Holiday Inn in Iceland? Point them out, please.
as an aside, Why does the number of Muslims matter? In the 7th century, when warfare was conducted mostly with hand tools and numbers were of some importance ( not as much as Muslims thought. At Jaffa, August 5, 1192, Richard de`Cour and 14 Crusaders attacked and routed about 4,000 of Sal-a-din’s bodyguards).
In an age of WMD’s and PGM’s More numbers equals more body bags, NOT victory. Most Western Combined arms formations are capable of destroying 10x their number in Muslims. Not as good as the Crusaders , but still not bad.
So not only are you telling lies, they are stooopid lies. Never tell a lie that will fall on the first fact check.
Look how much trouble Ohhhhhh…..BAMA has gotten into doing that. A sure fire ticket to the White House if he just keeps his mouth shut and looks ‘presidential’ shot down in flames because he couldn’t resist telling a few little lies.
In April 2007, the NY Times published a long 2 page article about Barack Hussein Obama, and his family. Obama’s half-sister stated that the whole family is Muslim. Hussein is a Muslim name, given by Muslim fathers. Obama dressed as a Muslim, and practiced Islam at a Mosque, while also attending an Islamic school in Indonesia between the ages of 6-10.
Since he USED to be a practicsing Muslim and is even registered as one in Indonesia, many Americans including myself have serious reservations about having him in control of our Military Machine.
To make things worse Obama has stated that he will “dismantle” our Nuclear, and research and development weapons programs. Ahmadinejad of Iran, Cuba’s Castro brothers, Nicaraguas Ortega, Russias new leader and others want Obama to become the next president. Obama is plannning on surrendering in Iraq, and he is making America’s enemies very happy with his future plans.
Add to this ugly mix the fact that Obama’s “spiritual mentor” was an ex Black Muslim, and black militant, named Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and I say “NOBAMA”! Obama is also associated with Tony Rezko who was recently indicted in Chicago, and last but not least, one of Obama’s friends is William Ayers a Weather Underground unrepentant terrorist.
Sadly, our radical Liberal Activist Judges have given Constitutional rights to terrorists out to kill Americans, Jews, and Infidels. Similar Liberal Activist judges deny these same Human and Civil rights to “Made In The U.S.A. unborn babies. This insane reality has helped transform me into a Conservative. Another insane thing: Would any of you readers undergo open heart surgery and allow a 1 year medical student to perform it? Of course not, so why vote for a person who only has 147 days of experience as Senator? (Obama)
I’m not crazy about McCain, but I’m betting he will be the next president.
The first time I read about Barack Obama’s muslim background, it was in one of those right-wing blogs, and the blogger noted both the history (family and school background, as well as listing as a muslim in school) and his current voluntary status as a christian. The blogger did not in any way question Barack Obama’s veracity or his right as an American to choose his form of religious worship.
The point the blogger raised is that, according to some Muslim teachings, people who begin life in Muslim families do not have the right to choose Christianity, on pain of death. His point was that, according to some Muslim teachings, Barack Obama had the legal status of apostate, and that he might be regarded as a target for assassination.
Given what I’ve read from people who claim to be Muslim posters in several other contexts, I concluded that the blogger had a point, although it was not the kind of point that should influence my vote. American presidents have been the target of assassins for a long time.
Then Obama miss-spoke about his background, and got caught. Then the Democratic smear machine kicked in, smearing right wing bloggers in general as claiming that Obama is Muslim.
“If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools….”
Sandra M:
Already done;
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-propaganda.htm
I learned most of this in Toastmasters, but there was some new stuff.
I am sick enough to enjoy going over Ohhh….BAMA’s transcripts and picking apart his techniques. The guy is almost Hitler grade. Almost because he needs to work on his non-scripted propaganda.
People nowdays forget that Hitler was maybe the best orator the human race has produced. He had all the tricks, perfect timing and the feel for the audience one needs to make it all work.
That is what scares me most about Ohhhhh….BAMA. Fortunately Raoul is still out there, ready to vote.
to the poster “hello” above who states: “You can’t choose when history is relevant for your argument”… You also shouldn’t twist history to promote your own bizarre pro-Islam anti-Christian narrative. You conclude your post by suggesting that you believe “ALL RELIGION is a joke.” Well enough, but an examination of your post reveals a curious yet consistent lauding of Islam and Islamic motives, and a denigrating attitude against Christianity and Christian motives:
“The wealth of the Muslim occupiers and the relative poverty of the papacy are not stressed in popular accounts of the Crusades…” – how did those Muslims come to possess that “wealth” — could it have possibly been from campaigns (crusades) far more reaching, rapacious, and sustained than anything the Christians ever committed? By the time of the First Crusade, the Muslims had rampages across the entirety of the “Holy Land” and “Arabia”, formerly occupied by Jews and Christians et al, looting and slaughtering genocidally, all of Northern Africa, looting and slaughtering genocidally, Spain, looting and slaughtering genocidally, and as far as Persia and India, looting and slaughtering genocidally. Could this have had anything to do with the putative wealth you ascribe to them? Were their motives any better than those you ascribe to the Christians? Of course not, yet you concentrate on excoriating only the Christians, who waged 4 notoriously unsuccessful “Crusades”, yet give the Muslims a pass. Why is that?
You also state: “On the minus side, the Crusades are often touted as a harbinger of the revival of Europe from the intellectual slumber of the Dark Ages through contact with a higher civilization. In fact, it was peaceful contact with Spanish Muslims, not warfare with Palestinian Muslims, that awakened Europe. ” Aside from being an unsubstantiated assertion, this also follows the same assumptions that you express above, i.e. Islam is somehow “superior”, and the Christians are inferior. Why is that?
The post-modern narrative which largely ascribes criminality only to the Western camp, while lauding and excusing the actions of the avowed enemies of that camp is very threadbare. And attempts by such posters to shift attention away from Muslim misdeeds and Islam onto putative Christian misdeeds of nearly a thousand years ago strikes me as slightly insane. The poster assures us he is an equal opportunity religion scoffer — yet the only religion I see him attacking is Christianity, while giving Islam a pass. This is one reason why dismissing concerns about the warmongering genocidal “religion” of Islam is so dangerous. Yes, those Christians who fought their various Crusades did so for various, and often quite un-Christian reasons, whereas those Muslims who raped and pillaged their way to the front yard of Western Europe in Spain, Byzantium, Austria, etc. did so following the essential tenets of their hideous faith. It is a bleak reality that many radical secularists have so deeply consumed the deeply anti-Christian anti-Western (and very often Marxist) “analysis” of history, also are the first to give Islam a complete historical pass, despite their claims of secularism or contempt for religion.
I want no truck with the various “Obama is a
Muslim” rumors. They are ridiculous. Anyway, it might well be
better if he were, as there are probably lots of Imams out there who
hate America less than Reverend Wright does. If Obama prayed at one
of those mosques, it would be one less mark against him.
Hello,
You are accurate as for as you go. May I add also that a primary cause for the First Crusade was the European custom knowns as primogeniture. As the word implies the first born son received the entirety of his father’s estate. This left second, third, and fourth sons, men bred for war, without wealth or land. The result was chaos and constant warfare across Europe. Declaring a crusade was a way of directing the fratricidal violence in Europe toward a distant enemy.
By most accounts the Norman contingent in the First Crusade was motivated by a desire for land. Robert Guiscard had already conquered Sicily (another point of transmission for classical scholarship via Islam). He regulary raised Norman armies from among his kinsmen for campaigns against the Byzantines. When word came of the First Crusade, the Normans joined en masse. But they seemed not much interested in the stated goal of taking Jerusalem. One group stopped at Antioch and set up a crusader kingdom on the coast. Another group struck out for Edessa where they established a second crusader state. The entire effort seemed more devoted to secular power than religious fervor.
The notion that there were 8 crusades is slightly erroneous. New pilgrims arrived yearly to take up the cause once the crusader kingdoms had been established. What they found was a duplication of the feudal wars being fought in Europe. Christians joined with Muslim allies against other Christians, and Muslims joined Christian allies against their own. In fact, many new Christian pilgrims were appalled to see that earlier generations had gone native over time.
The finger pointing by Christians and Muslims over who did what to whom during the crusades is so much bunk. The entire campaign was an extension of feudal warfare from one region to another. Dressed in religious robes, it was nonetheless a secular land grab. Using the history of the crusades to back contemporary arguments is pointless.
For example, I was born and raised in the USSR, so does it make me born and raised Communist
No where in the Communist Manifesto does it instruct communists to execute ex-Communists. Unlike the Koran which makes it rather clear that apostates should be killed. To Islamists once a Muslim always an apostate.
What constitutes a “smear?” Is it the falsehood or the particular religion involved that renders an assertion that Obama is Muslim a “smear?” Or does it depend entirely on the motives of the one making the assertion (accusation?)–you know, much like whether a pregnancy is considered a blessed event or a mistake to be corrected depends on the intent of the pregnant woman to either bring the baby to term or abort the fetus. Perhaps if I oppose Obama and am attempting to vilify him, such assertions (accusations?) would be “smears.” But if I were, say, a Muslim who fully supports Obama’s candidacy and joyfully and publicly embraces him as my fellow, they would not. Would it be a “smear” to suggest that Obama’s a Jew (which he isn’t)? Or gay (which he isn’t…as far as we know…not that there’s anything wrong with that)? If I were to express reservations (which I have) about Obama’s troubling embrace of Black Liberation Theology, could I be accused of attempting to “smear” him?
Obama is a socialist and a Democrat and that’s plenty of reason not to vote for him right there.
A Psychological analysis here is unavoidable. Irregardless of the truth, which is known only to BHO regarding his true feelings toward the religion of his paternal forebears (the proverbial “Faith of Our Fathers”) a key issue with the election of an Arab descendant/practicing Christian during the present war against radical Islam is the effect on the enemy radicals of BHO being president. I am not sure any 21st Centuray Christian can replicate how a contemporary radical Muslim, proposing terrorism as a viable tactic in their current Jihad, thinks about anything. Islam of course is 700 years younger than Christianity, so in the normal religious evolution, they are stuck right in the middle of their own early Reformation, Savaronola (sp?) versus the Borgias with Osama Bin Laden in the role of Savaronola. The Sybarites eventually burned S, and OBL’s fate is probably no different.
But how would S. or OBL’s followers feel about Hussein Obama claiming, and acting, as a Christian? Is the theory that they accept or know his father was an Atheist deadbeat dad who left his son in the custody of a “Christian” woman relevant? I have no idea, but across our huge planet, every permutation of any belief imaginable, even if totally unsupportable by fact, will gain a foothold and the same number of followers as the resulting proslytization will justify, the actual facts be damned.
Bottom Line? I don’t believe electing BHO, no matter how good a man I think he is, and I do believe he is, will help to quell the Jihad being promoted by the Savanorola’s on the other side of the religious divide. The Terror War will become worse, whether BHO tries to run away from it, or whether fed up he decides to turn and fight. If he ever decides to unmask himself as an Arab Wolf, God help us all, and for that reason I never think he would. He would probably go the Jimmy Carter route first.
hello:
My point it about those who use past insanity to justify current insanity by pointing to it and, like a child, say “but they did it too” even though it was a couple of hundred years ago. Ask yourself how long ago did christains justify killing someone for sex outside of marrage? How long ago for muslims? Muslims still stone and whip women for this in the modern world.
I wonder if the same people who are now outraged at this rumor work were as outraged by the other fringe rumor that has been the rage for the past 7 years…that 9/11 was an inside job? At least the Obama is a muslim rumor has a shred of believability to it.
Barack’s apostacy aside, in his own words he has stated:
“I will stand with the muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
Barack Hussein Obama: from the “Audacity of Hope”
That’s pretty plain and simple English. Regardless of how much Rick Moran would like to hide it under his kaffiyeh.
Rick Moran is indulging in disappointing “Look at me, I’m proving that I’m not a racist” style journalism. Barack “Barry” Obama is today a secular man who apparently takes religion with a huge grain of salt. Nonetheless, the evidence does indicate that he was raised a Muslim during his earlier years. Daniel Pipes rightfully points out that Islamic extremists consider such an individual as an apostate. End of story. This is the consensus view of the center right. Who gives a damn about the rants and raves of the marginalized radical right? Moran is being conned by the Obama camp to knock down a mostly imaginary straw man.
“But it raises the question of why it should even matter what Obama’s religion might be. Personally, I could care less if Obama was a tree-worshiping Druid. The point shouldn’t be what God he prays to but rather how he would govern the United States of America. Give me an honest, prudent atheist rather than a church going, amoral pol any day. The fact that many politicians go through the motions when it comes to their faith or attendance at church should disqualify a candidate’s religion as a major factor in determining one’s vote.” –Rick Moran
Amen!
I also don’t get this ‘apostate’ thing. Does it not make Obama like brave and stuff? (For the record, there is no chance I vote for Obama and I don’t think he is brave.)
And who the hell cares what do Islamic extremists think? For example, I’m “born and bred” Russian and a proud US citizen. That means Islamic extremists probably want me dead five (5) times: 1) for Afghanistan, 2) for Chechnya, 3) for Afghanistan (again), 4) for Iraq and 5) Just Because. So like who cares?
Below are captions on pictures of Barak as a Muslim. If it walks and quacks like a duck, it is most likely it is a duck.
U.S. presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s
uncle has been a prisoner in his own home,
trapped by post election violence that has left
more than 600 Kenyans dead. ‘If Barack Obama
were elected, he would improve relations between
Africa and America because he had his roots in
Africa’, his uncle said.
Malik Obama, older brother to Barack Obama, holds an undated picture of Barak, left, and himself, middle, and an unidentified friend in his shop in eastern Kenya .
Luo dancers from the Senator Barack Obama Primary School. Barack has stated his support for Luo Raila Odinga (Opposition Leader in Kenya who signed a ‘Shariah pact’ with Muslims and claims to be Obama’s cousin) and is married to Ida Odinga. They have four children – two sons andtwo daughters. His oldest son, Fidel, is named after Fidel Castro.
Barack’s father, Muslim, hard-drinker, was married three times, attended Harvard and returned to Kenya . Obama claims he was an atheist, but he was raised Muslim and was given a Muslim burial at Barack’s family’s request.
With mother Stanley Ann Dunham. In his own autobiography Obama writes, ‘How and when the marriage occurred remains a bit murky, a bill of particulars that I have never quite had the courage to explore.’ (His father was still
married to his first wife Kezia in Kenya at the time.)
His father’s only visit while Obama was in Hawaii. Mother’s 2nd husband Lolo Soetoro (Indonesian Muslim),their daughter Maya, and Obama. Abandoned by his father and shipped off by hismother to his white grandparents, Barry Soterobecomes Barack Hussein Obama. Obama would
describe his grandparents as ‘white folk.’
(Yeah, ‘white folk’ that would NOT abandon
you, their grandchild. Shame on you Obama.)
Barack stands behind Kezia (stepmother) in a Kenyan family shot.(Including brother Abongo ‘ Roy ‘ Obama who is a Luo activist and
a ‘Militant Muslim’ who argues that the black man must ‘liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture.’ )
‘Abongo’s new lifestyle has left him lean and clear-eyed, and at the wedding, he looked so dignified in his black African gown with white trim and matching cap that some of our guests
mistook him for my father,’ Obama wrote in Dreams From My Father.
Obama’s visit to Africa ’06 (Where are the transcripts of the speeches he gave here? Campaigning for Odinga? Wouldn’t it be great to be able to read these? Do the people of the state of Illinois know about Obama’s radical background?)
How do we know Barako is’nt a Muslim,just because he says so?It seems to me there’s a lot he won’t tell us.
I read Daniel Pipes piece, and it quite persuasively argues that Obama was raised a Muslim. This means that many Muslims will consider him a either a covert Muslim or an apostate. Both could effect his foreign relations – if he is consider apostate, he will be viewed even less favorably than Bush.
Is he a Muslim? That is between him and God. He doesn’t seem to associate himself with radical or moderate Muslims beyond simple get out the vote appeals. He seems to prefer black liberation theology, which is an ethnic separatist derivative of Christianity, just as the Nation of Islam is of mainstream Islam. That would seem to be the most likely choice for his religion.
Maybe religion shouldn’t matter, but in fact it does. Mr. Romney was given all kinds of grief about being a Mormon, because Mormons have an historic stain regardingg racist policies. The Mormon faith took a new stance in recent years and rejected its racist policies. It evolved. Mr. Romney never tried to evade that. He opened his life and puts his creds on the table and said “Take a look.”
BHO’s being a Muslim, or not, does matter to the American people. Muslim doctrine does state “death to infidels” (read “Americans”) and if BHO is Muslim we should be told so straightforwardly. If he WAS Muslim, we have the right to know that, too. Can he not act as an adult and realize he doesn’t get to be a private citizen anymore?
We have the right to see his birth certificate as well. He’s applying for the job of CEO of our nation. He ASKED for this job… right? We need to see his creds. Is he a natural born citizen? I make no accusation, I ask a valid question.
Conflicting stories abound and if you really want to put an end to the misinformation, show some valid proof. I don’t buy into the rumor mill but I do think it’s naive of anybody to say “republican radicals” keep stirring the pot. Proof sets rumors aside.
This is an important job interview — if BHO wants the job, let him go “all in” and put his cards face up on the table. It is insufficient to simply say the things he thinks America wants to hear. He needs to show us the things we need to see before we can consider hiring him for the top position in the country.
Just sayin.
Obama and the giant blogosphere conspiracy by Melanie Phillips at Spectator.co.uk on Wednesday, 11th June 2008
Today’s Guardian reports that Barack Obama is setting up an entire unit to combat ‘virulent rumours’ about him on the internet. … The Guardian quotes the director of some monitoring outfit as saying that the blogosphere’s smears about Obama are particularly vicious.
… But the fact is that there are serious and troubling questions about Obama’s ancestry and associations and what he himself has said about them, which have surfaced in the blogosphere but have been almost wholly ignored by the mainstream media in its collective Obamanic swoon. [RTWT]
Princess Obama Derangement Syndrome by Melanie Phillips at Spectator.co.uk on Friday, 13th June 2008
My oh my, what a firestorm I appear to have started with my remarks two days ago on Obama’s background! It was wholly expected, of course, but nevertheless the posters’ comments are so revealing. They graphically illustrate the way in which Obamania has quite obviously destroyed the capacity for reason.
First, it is quite clear that any questioning at all of Obama’s background is entirely off-limits. Next, the posters fail totally to grasp that the real point isn’t what faith he professed or was brought up in as a child – it is the fact that he has not told the truth about his early background. Then, some even compare such questioning with the ‘truthers’ who allege that 9/11 was perpetrated by a conspiracy between America and Israel. They thus demonstrate that they cannot tell the difference between rationality and lunacy, evidence and fantasy, failing to grasp that the sole reason for the questions about Obama is the many discrepancies in the accounts of his early life — including his own accounts — plus his many questionable associations.
* * *
To repeat once again for sufferers from PODS: the issue is NOT Obama’s religion, now or in the past. It is the many questions which need to be answered about a) why he has sought to conceal his early background; b) why he has so many indirect associations with radical Islamism; and c) whether these two questions are in some way related. … [RTWT]
Obama lost my vote early last year when he proved himself to be a man of low character and poor judgment.
Candide says, “I hate Communism more than most Americans do” — that’s precisely the kind of straightforward statement we want to hear from a man who would be our president. Instead, Obama has chosen to “waffle” on almost every issue of concern to the American voter.
Never more accurate was the statement, “You are what you eat.”
And as regards Obama’s ties to Communism, americanthinker.com on 6/13 published an interesting article entitled, “Return of the Dupes and the Anti-Anti-Communists” by P. Kengor. The comments section is worth a read as well.
It’s breathtaking, really, how many questions this man raises regarding his loyalty to and love for our nation and its founding. Even more breathtaking is the number of Americans who fail to ask the questions.
Already by some surveys, 15% of the electorate believes that despite vehement denials from the campaign, intensive investigations by mainstream media organizations, and all evidence to the contrary, Barack Obama is a Muslim.
This kind of irrational belief is fed by an army of online smear merchants and the more innocent but misinformed — or simply duped — group of largely conservative activists who see it as their duty to “expose” Obama as a Muslim to save the United States from. . . something. The cause is hazy
Rick, not sure of your seminal point here.
1) 15% of the electorate believes something…therefore..what?
What percentage of Rev. Wright’s and Rev. Farrakhan’s congregation believe that white US government officials created the AIDS virus to kill them?
What percentage of radical Islamists and “truthers” believe that white US government officials in concert with the Israeli government flew planes into our own buildings?
What percentage of the Koz Kidz and the lunatic fringe leftists believe that the motivation for our campaigns after 9/11 were motivated by “blood for oil”?
So, it seems to me that 85% of the electorate does not believe that Sen. Obama is a practicing Muslim. I count myself among them. Is the article intended to shame that 15% into switching beliefs? I can’t believe that is the intent, which would be deep as a thimble. So, let’s presume that the rest of the above cited quote carries the true intent.
2)Despite vehement denials from the campaign….you mean like Watergate? Clinton/Lewinsky? Oh, well…if the campaign VEHEMENTLY denies it…well, then that’s proof enough. Right?
Look, the premise of your article (such as it appears to be), is that the campaign wants to HIDE Muslim women wearing traditional garb…while they are VEHEMENTLY denying that there is any “connection” to the Muslim world and Sen. Obama. Is it only me, or does that have a tinge of irony contained within it? We should believe them when they VEHEMENTLY deny orchestrating the hiding of his connection to the Muslim world …and the example we give to prove this…. is the lengths to which they engage in the hiding of women who are connected to the Muslim world in his campaign.
“Well, we WOULD hide it for THIS purpose…but not for THAT purpose…we’re too honest for THAT!”
3)…INTENSIVE investigations by the mainstream media…”. Ok, then. As long as they were “INTENSIVE” investigations. You mean like Green Helmet Guy, fauxtography, “fake but accurate” forged documents…that kind of “intensive” investigation?
The Morally Suspect Media is in the bag for Sen. Obama. The latest Rasmussen poll puts the trust factor of deadwood media journalists beneath a convicted flim flam artist.
The MetaStasis Media is dying on the vine and STILL continues to cheat people out of the truth and rape the information stream on issues related to Iraq, the economy, national security…and not least of all…this upcoming election.
Again, is your seminal issue that these 15% of people are being “duped” because they don’t automatically believe the proven liars, cheats, forgerers and intentionally misleading denizens of blatantly biased coverage of this election? There is hardly a single objective observer who blindly believes the deadwood media any longer.
4)So, your point must be that we shouldn’t CARE about whether he WAS a Muslim at any point, or took classes as a boy, etc.
Fair enough. Most of us don’t….by your own calculations…85% of people don’t believe he is now a Muslim.
But your point that it’s a “smear” to suggest that he EVER had ties to the Muslim world…is a bit overheated. I’m not in the slightest convinced that Sen. Obama had zero connection to Muslim teachings. In fact, I think it would be quite odd if that was the case.
Again, his boyhood connections to Muslim teachings aren’t terribly relevant, at least to me, without a further nexus. DENYING them, gives me a reason to look further. It’s the DENIAL…not the boyhood classes that prompt the questioning.
Sen. Obama seems to “hide” things from plain view when he has a discomfort with being associated with them. He “hid” his association with the Communist Party USA member by calling him “Frank”…in the rather bizarre game of peek-a-boo. “Frank”, of course, is Frank Marshall Davis…a rather strident ultra-leftist voice in his life, for whom Sen. Obama held an abiding respect and admiration.
Sen. Obama “hid” the very strident and hostile message of “Uncle Jeremiah” and the rather transparent suggestion that he “didn’t know” or “didn’t hear” the hostility and rage…is to deny the very fiber of all that is Jeremiah Wright’s total being. His raison d’ etre…is that rage, that anger, that hostility. Sen. Obama took an armload of tapes of Wright’s to law school with him, then “adopted” Wright as a “spiritual guide”…made him nearly a family member and embraced him with a depth of devotion…that defies the explanation of “not knowing” the man. It simply doesn’t pass the smell test.
This game of “Blind Man’s Bluff” or “peek-a-boo” continues on with Ayers and not only the Woods Foundation, but the Annenberg group association. With Rezco, with Rashid Khalidi, with the late Edward Said, with Ali Abunimah, with the Nation of Islam staffers.
Sen. Obama wants to at once be seen as a champion of the far left and pro-Palestinian voices, but also to be seen as a centrist and Pro-Israel. Certainly the “peek-a-boo”, with the now you see ‘em, now you don’t cadre…of the Carter anti-Israel contingent of Malley, Brzezinski, Power, McPeak…lends its own bucket of questions as to what is real and what is not in his campaign. And all the “vehement denials” don’t make the questions go away…for ANY political campaign…much less one that has been as thinly vetted as the present one.
Finally, the issue about who may be “duped” in this process…and what constitutes “intensive investigation”…I suppose may be best be defined as whether the prospect of a Jimmy Carter redux sends a chill up one’s leg….or down one’s spine.
Link to article mentioned by “believer.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/return_of_the_dupes_and_the_an.html
“Even more breathtaking is the number of Americans who fail to ask the questions.”
They don’t ask because they’ve been told “it’s a SMEAR” if they even THINK of asking….
The comments section on this site certainly is an excellent place to find the kind of people who are into these silly stories. I think Sandra M’s first comment is an enlightening one that is worth deconstructing.
First, you know this is going to be a profound comment when the author feels it necessary to preface by informing you they were in Phi Beta Kappa (O..M..G) as proof of their superior reasoning skills. She goes on to claim journalistic ascendancy through incredible experience such as working for “The Top Ad Agency in the World(tm)”. However, this fellowship deserving “professional writer” certainly casts doubt on her claims by her own writing. Consider this incredible “sentence”:
“One of the rebutted lies on his site concerns a video that may or may not exist of Michelle and Louis Farrakan, in which she ‘might’ have used the term ‘Whitey’ OR was it ‘why did he’ which seemed to fit in context, I decided to wait for video proof, but thought if this is the big October surprise, this is a big nothing.”
Now, I’m not sure, which stylebook, Sandra used in her journalism days, but, it seems clear, that it emphasized, commas, and did not take, a hard line, against, run on sentences. Now, blogging up comments is a much hastier process than writing an article so perhaps this can be overlooked. However, writing ability is not the only place where the journalistic bona fides seem a bit shaky. Consider the skepticism, or rather the lack there of, in this post as well. In Lie 4 Sandra mentions that her google search found that Raila Odinga had “claimed to be Obama’s cousin”. Well and good, how does a top journalist deal with such a claim? Accepting it at face value of course. In the next paragraph Obama simply is Odinga’s cousin! Personally I think Sandra might have wasted her time at USC’s professional writer’s program if all she got out of it was that internet quotes of people claiming something to be true are sufficient to establish fact.
Finally, the icing on the cake, the precise breakdown to four significant figures of Obama’s racial background. Maybe if we dilute his blackness enough we can get him as lying about being black! Just invoke some of those old blood fraction laws. Sandra M, you are definitely not a serious person. Don’t let it get you down, just hang on to that Who’s Who book from high school that your Mom payed to put you in and remember to throw that in there with the Phi Beta Kappa reference next post. Your credibility will go through the roof.
These smears are not something serious people will take seriously. Many, if not most, of the electorate are not serious people. As a strategy spreading rumours like this, much like McCain’s “black baby” back in ’00, are simple ways to influence some of that non-serious electorate. The low-level true believers will continue to do it and let the ends justify the means. Remember the Ron Paul wing of the party with the 9/11 truth and world government suspicions? You will find a very high correlation between those conspiracy loving Paulites and those who actually believe Obama is a Muslim. That may be scary to some but for the win-at-all-costs inclined they vote and that’s all that matters.
More disturbing to me are the people who seem a bit less enthralled with conspiracy theories but are apparently beholden to blood as a person’s identity. Numerous posters claim that Obama’s name and biological father irrevocably make him Muslim. What country are we living in here? Does my Irish last name make me Catholic and violently anti-British for life with no choice on my part? Are we getting worked up because Obama may have been in a mosque between the ages of 6 and 10? Are you kidding me? I hate to break it to some of you but it doesn’t matter who we elect president, there will be whack jobs, including whack job Muslims, that will want to assassinate him.
All that said I can’t help but find some amusement in the whole thing. These types of comments may be sad, but they are also pretty funny. I honestly wonder if any the 9/11 truth and Obama is a Muslim thing can find some sort of middle ground and start claiming Obama was behind 9/11…
DUDE!!!! WHAT DON’T YOU GET?
ACCORDING TO 1 BILLION MUSLIMS ‘BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’ WAS BORN A MUSLIM, BECAUSE HIS FATHER IS A MUSLIM, & THEREFORE CANNOT BE ANYTHING LESS THEN A MUSLIM, EVEN IF HE CLAIMS TO BE.
WHY ARE WE SO UNEDUCATED IN THIS COUNTRY?
That about covers it.
rick,
i think the point was totally missed. if he was a full blooded muslim WTF does it matter. this is america, home of the free, land of the brave, and built by a bunch of people that were being religiously persecuted. religion shouldn’t matter, and in obama’s case it doesn’t, he has more holes in his boat than a porous rock, put the focus there not bigotedly on his supposed ties to islam. listen to yourselves.
Glad you posted the link, Ed Wallis.
The most interesting comment was Marilyn Katz’s at 8:28pm on 6/13. She said the following was the aim of her own parents and other far leftist parents (which she believes Ann Dunham and her parents were):
“Breed thousands of white communist girls with blacks, africans and asians, and sooner or later one of the offspring would get in a position of power.”
This might explain Obama’s half-sister’s statement that their mother would often tell Obama he might be US President one day.
Qazi,
“We are all partners in humanity.”
Tarek Heggy
Well, Rick, you certainly got all of those itching for the great Islam-Christianity confrontation in a frenzy.
BTW, Sandra M, I find it odd that someone with your listed background couldn’t find out that members of the Luo tribe are manifestly not Arab and that you’ve been duped by one of those mentioned in my first paragraph. These same people prey on existing prejudice against Arabs and on the general American ignorance regarding Kenya and how that country deals with its religious minorities.
Obama has about fifteen separate issues which should exclude him from the presidency, the chief of them being his 20-year adherence to Black Liberation Theology, his expressed socialist way of thinking and his woeful lack of lifetime accomplishment. Perhaps we could concentrate on getting the known facts surrounding these items out to the non-Internet reading public instead of distorting several cultures to achieve mutually desired ends: defeating Obama.
One of the best sourced bloggers on debunking Obama’s bogus claims is here: http://theobamafile.com/ObamaReligion.htm It’s in timeline format, so scroll in to the last posts of 2007 for a thorough explanation of this Islam question. The gumshoe work on this was incredible. An American Expat in Southeast Asia blog, written by an American who has lived in Indonesia for 20 years. He backtracked and dismantled the puff pieces that attempt to bolster Obama’s handler’s allegations that he “was never a Moslem”.
Pass this around. http://theobamafile.com/
is divided into 16 categories Family, Education, Religion, Politics, Employment, US Senate, The Wife, Campaign, Supporters, Advisors, Africa, Race, Lies, Quotes, Osama, and Latest News.
Don’t believe me … read Obama’s book … his autobiography. You know, the book he wrote about himself.
In it, he admits to being raised a Muslim and getting into trouble in his Koran memorizing class.
Since he’s now trying to hide that, it seems weird to me, like he feels like he has something to hide. That he’s hiding something. I wonder what it could be?
“Barack Hussein Obama is not a Muslim.”
heh.
The finger pointing by Christians and Muslims over who did what to whom during the crusades is so much bunk. The entire campaign was an extension of feudal warfare from one region to another. Dressed in religious robes, it was nonetheless a secular land grab. Using the history of the crusades to back contemporary arguments is pointless.
I I Agree . My point is there are 2 sides 2 the story. And we all agree national security is most important. But we can’t be ignorant to some of the western polices on the middle east for the past one hundred years( a short time). And that is not hate of America. It’s understanding your adversary. At the root it’s not religion it’s simple politics of people with different religions.
Trust me you have way more loonies in parts of the U.S. Then there are old ladies saying Amen on Sunday. They are just happy to be out of the heat. Especially the ones without any A/C at home.
asdfs
I mean then you could say the same about all the western(I hate to do it) Christian cults. Some sic Stuff goes on there also. I will not name groups but just think with a open mind. I am not judging just making a point.
http://savagepolitics.com/?p=773
As we all know, Obama has been consistently dishonest about his Muslim birth and upbringing throughout his entire political career (please read “Hussein Dynamic“). Obama has had to also deal with the uncomfortable position of countering his own brother’s recent statements to the Jerusalem Post: “Barack Obama’s half brother Malik said Thursday that if elected his brother will be a good president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background. In an interview with Army Radio he expressed a special salutation from the Obamas of Kenya.”
The Obama brothers’ father, a senior economist for the Kenyan government who studied at Harvard University, died in car crash in 1982. He left six sons and a daughter. All of his children – except Malik — live in Britain or the United States. Malik and Barack met in 1985 in the US.
“He was best man at my wedding and I was best man at his,” said Malik in a 2004 interview with an AP reporter. Their paternal grandfather, Onyango Hussein Obama, was one of the first Muslim converts in Nyangoma-Kogelo, Malik said.
Nonetheless, Obama’s “anti smear” website clearly misdirects the American People, by plainly stating that he has NEVER been a Muslim and even has the AUDACITY to state that he was NOT born a Muslim, something that shows his “ignorance” of the same Islamic culture that he parades around of personally ‘understanding’, thanks to living in Indonesia for a few years when he was a child. We should ask Obama: Is there something inherently wrong with being a Muslim which forces your campaign (and yourself) to constantly and aggressively negate?
Along with yesterday’s news that Michelle was undergoing a “make-over” — comes the release today of Obama’s first general election ad.
It’s obvious both intend to reveal a softer, more mainstream, America-loving candidate and wife. Take care not to forget what preceded the transformations.
Obama has had almost a year and a half to be honest with the American people. Instead, he has engaged in prevarication. Anything – anything – he says now cannot be trusted. His word is no longer good. He squandered that opportunity.
There are many who believe he can still win: Americans want ‘change’ too much, they say. What fools. I want change too, perhaps for different reasons. But I can wait. Learn the virtue of patience. And the sober responsibility of your vote.
There is a bottom-line issue here. We are a nation at war. This is no time to err in choosing our leader. We need to be assured of that man’s qualifications. And his loyalties.
There’s only one man who passes that test for me. It’s not Barack Obama.
“Using the history of the crusades to back contemporary arguments is pointless.”
Baloney! Those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
As a point of fact IT’S THE SAME WAR. Islam is at war with everyone that isn’t Muslim. It a requirement of their religion. Muslims see the world as being two ‘houses’. The house of Islam
‘Dar as-Salam’ and ‘dar al-Harb’ or house of war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam
Islam has been at war with the rest of the world since day one. The war starts and stops, waxes and wanes according to how strong the Dar as-Salam is at that point in history. It won’t end until either Islam rules everywhere or Islam doesn’t exist. Period. One house will live, one house will die.
One the positive side, Muslims are VERY weak. The Religion itself is non-hierarchical, which makes for what by western standards is pretty much a non-structured society. There is structure, but it isn’t as strong as western civilization and as a result, doesn’t produce good soldiers. Fine warriors, but poor soldiers.
IMHO, the most significant development to come out of Iraq will be teaching the Iraqi’s the difference between a soldier and a warrior.Judging from the way the IA is tearing up the militias and AQ, they have learned well.
The Iraqi militia was being trained, equipped and supported by the Quds Force, which is joined at the hip with Hezzbollah. The same Hezzebollah that kicked the Israeli’s a$$ a year or so ago.
“Lyddea:
The comments section on this site certainly is an excellent place to find the kind of people who are into these silly stories. I think Sandra M’s first comment is an enlightening one that is worth deconstructing.”
Are you another one of Soro’s paid guns?
You didn’t do a very good job. Nothing but an Ad Hominem attack. Have you considered giving half your paycheck back?
Nahhh… I wouldn’t either. That nasty old bit of gristle has way to much money anyway. He can’t spend it all before he dies, which hopefully will be AFTER he signs your check. But not long after.
Meanwhile, here is a simple question. If Ohhhhhh…….BAMA wants to stop the rumors, why not publish a copy of his father’s birth certificate?
Maybe because then they won’t be rumors, but facts?
Nothing kills a rumor faster then facts. Unless of course the facts prove the rumor true. That is what happened to Kerry. All the evidence proved the rumors to be true, so he couldn’t disclose. Kerry was at the same place in the polls in ’04 that your boy is today. I suspect Ohhhhhhh……BAMAAA! won’t finish as well. His core group is smaller and his party support weaker. His major support comes from blacks. One blacks find out that he is really an Arab and they are being played, a LOT of that support will dry up.
If Ohhhhhh……BMAM is 10 points behind when the Convention starts, he will lose the nomination. Remember he doesn’t have the PLEDGED delegates to win and the Supers can change their mind whenever they want. If you think Billery isn’t working that angle as you read this, I have a real nice bridge that I can get you a good deal on. Low mileage and it was just painted recently.
Why calling a person Muslim a smear? Why calling a person Christian not a smear?
A logical follow up question: What, in the person’s mind, is wrong with being a Muslim that he feels smeared for being called one?
Qazi, nice try at diversion…
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world…studies have shown this is not attributable to the adult conversion of those making an informed decision to follow Islam but is a product of the much higher birth rate of Islamic countries as opposed to Christian, Jewish, Bhuddist, etc. countries. The fact is true but reasoning that the fact follows the merits of the religion is false.
Your next comment on a Muslim’s right to defend himself simply forces me to refer to history…”The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.” – from thereligionofpeace.com
Everyone has the right to defend themselves. No on has the right to bomb shopping malls, crash planes into towers, launch rockets into markets…that’s not defense that’s an attack on the innocent.
You also say “The Holy Qur’an clearly states that if a person saves one life, it’s as if he saved humanity, and if a person kills one human being, it’s as if he killed humanity.” You are quoting verse chapter 5 sura 32 of the quran but only part of it. The whole thing says: “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.” This wasn’t a command to muslims it was a recounting of something that happened within the jewish community. Shame on you for taking your own “holy” book out of context.
“What is happening in the enslaved Muslim countries is a natural reaction to occupation, bombings, killing and terrorizing of innocent civilians (children, old men and women), rapes, in addition to looting of resources, national antiques and artifacts, above all the destruction of their property by the occupiers.” Please site your source on terrorizing/killing of innocent civilians, rapes, and looting of resources. I’m not going to just take your word for this. If it’s happening, I agree that’s wrong and against Geneva Conventions, but a “religion of peace” would react to rape by raping, react to killing innocents by killing innocents, etc etc.
“We assure those who bash Islam that if there was no occupation in this world by foreign invaders, there would be no resistance – the so-called terror.” -Really. There are just too many sura’s that refute this claim. For instance 2:193, 8:12-13, 8:39, 8:60, 9:29, 9:73, 13:15…I could go on a long time. This will suffice and you know it.
And you site the crusades(which I’ve already addressed), the inquisition and the IRA but leave out important statistics-more people are killed by islamists every year then in all 350 years of the inquisition, more civilians killed in two hours on september 11th then in 36 years of conflict in northern ireland.
You’re a funny guy, Qazi, if you think that American’s are so stupid their gonna take your word for it.
You should check out the “games muslims play” page. You’ve played almost every one of them.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm
What is Black Liberation Theology? That is what 99% of the Black community is saying. Not because they are uninformed but, because It’s bull. And if you have a dictionary use it.
Black= person of African decent(ancestors)
Liberation= Freeing of mind, body or soul from oppressive or known- unknown restrictions.
Theology= A rational natural approach to religion.
That should be good to all you guys who think blacks on welfare are the root of all evil.
We are damned if we do damned if we don’t. So in 10 years look back at the BLT propaganda you are part of and be ashamed. Some people in this country no matter the era just make stuff up or make something out of nothing.
Don’t let them form large groups, Don’t let them have guns, don’t let them in our schools, don’t let them swim, don’t let them vote, don’t let them marry whites, don’t let them cross state lines with white women. It’s constantly something. So now in 2008 it’s the fear of something that is nothing. You actually make people curious.
I’m intrigued–and not in a good way–by what would happen under an Obama presidency, given that he is a Trojan Horse for the radical left. (No doubt some seats inside would be reserved for members of the religion of peace. ) To use the frog in a pot of water metaphor, once in charge they’d probably turn up the heat fast. That’s their style. The glorious future can’t wait!
On our side, will we sit by and passively watch our country being hijacked right out from under us? Or will there be a “enough is enough” moment? And then…? The only precedent we have for rising in defense of our Constitution and our liberty against a tyrannical central government is the Confederacy, which is far from the perfect role model.
Sorry, no answers today. Just bad forebodings.
I think Qazi offers a different perspective, and does so in good faith. Readers of this thread should consider that Islam is not a monolithic force. Vast differences of ethnicity, language and culture exist across the Muslim world. While pockets of extremism can be found from Morocco to Indonesia, this does not represent the mainstream. The West is today confronted by one particularly violent sect known as Wahabism (and its local variants.) Likewise, any sect professing a desire to spread Sharia will naturally find itself in conflict with the forces of modernity.
My personal experience in the Arab world informs me that the people are not violent by nature. True, they can be whipped into a violent hysteria by unscrupulous leaders (Arafat comes to mind), but the cultural character of say, Egypt, is marked more by fatalism and complacency than by violence. My experiences in Turkey, Kashmir, and Malaysia indicate to me that Islam can accommodate modernity as Muslims begin to secularize.
Granted that Wahabism is a problem, we in the West must do everything we can to stop its spread. Are there Muslims who will ally with us in this endeavor? Most certainly the answer is yes, but they must be vocal about it. I particularly like this guy:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPx_dZf7U
I understand that Sufism is a minority sect within Islam, but that is true for the mystics of any religion. In addition, Sufism is pacifist in practice which makes it eminently compatible with European culture.
As for the Koran, the book is distincly dualistic in nature. One part describes a clearly revelatory experience while another part displays the hatreds, prejudices, and power-mongering of ordinary men. Islam clearly needs a reformation, something that will be difficult to accomplish given the static and fundamentalist interpretation coming out of Wahabism.
The history of Islam, like any history, is open to some interpretation. True enough, the initial burst of Islam out of Arabia was carried on a sword of religious fervor. But the first wave eventually ran out of steam as princes settled into the business of creating medieval states. In Spain, for example, religion was only one motivating force within the dynamics of feudal warfare. Spain’s great national hero, El Cid, was a mercenary and power-broker who fought for and against both sides as suited his ambitions.
In Asia Minor the Byzantines were routed by the Turks, not the Arabs who had little success against the bulwark of Eastern Christendom. It is telling that the Seljuks named their newly won territories the Sultanate of Rum (Rome), betraying their imperial ambitions over any desire to spread Islam by the sword.
The Ottomans who followed the Seljuks would create an empire much like Trajan did during the Roman Imperium. The Ottomans relied on conquest to feed an empire that needed constant expansion to survive. Trajan showed the same methodology when he ordered Roman legions to sack Dacia, loot its wealth, and enslave the population. The problem with piratical empires of this type is that decay sets in rapidly for lack of the internal institutions necessary to generate domestic wealth. Even into the 19th Century, Ottoman Turkey lacked both banking and the printing press.
Islam is not a monolithic force. History blends many threads of which religion is just one strand. When a Muslim shows up in a thread like this, people should listen. You might disagree, but you are getting a genuine perspective, without malice, from the other side. And before you attack me personally (as some no doubt will), know that I am neither an apologist nor a revisionist. What I have written here is my interpretation based on personal experience and my knowledge of history. You are welcome to disagree, but please do so with civility.
Morty
I am not leaning toward Islam. Like I said “all religion is garbage”. I just think it is amazing how people can make un informed statements and to think the crusades were some just western holy war is absurd. I was stating another argument. And I am in every sense of the word a capitalist. I am not a ultra capitalist. I do not believe in foreign occupation for capitalist reasons. And I don’t believe we can blame Islam for politics. The same as Christianity is not the blame for our politics, but we are a Christian nation. Just as we blame Islam they blame Christianity. The politicians know they are playing you on both sides. What makes it worse is people like yourself know there are 3 sides to a story 1,2, and 3 the truth. But we let or neighbors say things they may believe but we know are not entirely accurate. As long as it supports your argument. History is the version the author portrays it to be.
Do you know how many times in the bible “god” says killing is justified about one hundred.
I am not bashing but, it is unfair to point fingers unless you point them at the mirror first.
I study religion as a hobby. And have A few semesters under my belt on eastern and western philosophies. Just to say I have put some thought and effort into these issues.
So when will the lefty smear merchant journalists and Obama stop smearing Islam and Mohammad? Squirming and hiding behind the keyboard and smearing Islam and Mohammad at the same time. There is a war going on, the left sides with the terrorists for the most part, then smears them as the truths come forward.
Dear Lyddea. Thank you for pointing out my tendency to run on sentences and carelessness with commas. I will work on that. I haven’t pulled out my stylebook in too many years I’m 73, and crashed in 1986.
But, let me return the favor, Lyddea. You wrote: “just hang on to that Who’s Who book from high school that your Mom payed to put you in.” Lyddea, the word is spelled “paid.” Not a likely typo, I think you have to work on your spelling and perhaps, your arithmetic.
I had quoted: ” Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother’s side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father’s side. While Barack Hussein Obama’s father was from Kenya, his father’s family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama’s father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father’s birth certificate even states he’s Arab, not African Negro).”
Lyddea: “Maybe if we dilute his blackness enough we can get him as lying about being black!
Yes, Lyddea, exactly. That is precisely what people are accusing him of. Now, obviously at a time when Muslim Arabs have declared war on us, it’s not a good time to run for President as an Arab-American: too small a vote and you definitely risk alienating the Jewish vote. Much better to run as a black and get 95% of that much larger vote.
I know there is much discussion about Obama’s being Muslim as a child. I was Roman Catholic as a child. Then, at adolescence I became an atheist. Neither have much to do with what I believe today. The same is true of Obama. I think what troubles people are the obvious LIES.
America: land of the free, home of the naives.
Nice. Glad we are hitting on the important issues. Who is against the Electoral College now?
idlewordship.com
Rick Moran — I suggest doing a little more homework before publishing next time.
This article is what happens when an amateur blogger tries to be sly. If you read the whole article, it’s clear Moran was trying to condemn BHO, as he should. But he tried to do it by appearing to praise him–the ol’ Marc Antony move. And it just didn’t work. Readers who dislike Obama were annoyed, while liberal trolls heard the word “Muslim” and resorted to their usual talking points.
Next time don’t try to be coy, Rick.
hello,
Putting “some” thought, and putting substantial thought are different things. Its well and good of you to read the Bible and the Koran. It’s not particularly illuminating to read either on their own. Both books are used as blueprints to how one aught to live and those blueprints have been interpreted by the orthodoxy of each religion. Seeing that the various “killings” in the Bible and Koran were death penalties one needs to recognize that both documents are judicial primers. Just as we all can read the Constitution and see in it what we will (the right to keep slaves was once justified by the Constitution until the will to creatively interpret how to disallow slavery was manifest, thank G-d) one needs to look at judicial precedent in order to fully understand the core text.
For the Bible, the interpretive or precedent recording text is called the Talmud. Consider that in the Talmud it is written that a court that exacted a death penalty had a black mark on it for 70 years from that ruling and its judges were diminished in the eyes of the nation. If you were to look at the Haditha (the Koran’s interpretive text) you would find a harshness and cruelty to match the acts of their prophet in the Koran. If you were to look at the nations that consider themselves Islamic, the sort of justice they mete out, the strictness of their code and shallowness of their mercy, you will find a huge discrepancy between the systems.
Which court was the last to sentence someone to stoning? I’ll tell you, it was a court looking to the Haditha for precedent. What courts were the last to sentence a thief to removal of their hand? A Haditha court. What court was the last to execute a homosexual or put a death warrant on the head of a blasphemer? A Haditha court. The last execution enacted by a Jewish court, one that follows the Laws of G-d as brought to us through Moses and interpreted by the Sanhedrin, was over two thousand years ago. Even in those supposedly less sophisticated days the Jews of that time took every opportunity to rationalize how not to kill and how not to maim. The same cannot be said of Muslim courts today.
I argue that you are not engaged enough in your study of religion, history, current events or judicial theory to have a valid argument. Your moral relativism is not based on a thorough education but rather an education of the lowest common denominator. A couple of cultural survey classes provided by agenda driven professors is not an education. Its a grasping in the dark, reaching for a switch so that when the light does come on you might actually begin to learn something.
Qazi, You present quite a litany of “crimes” commited by so called christians. Firstly, Adolf Hitler was not christian, he was the head of neo-pagan racial cult. If Hitler worshiped anyone, it was Siegfried or Hermann or Wagner, not God or Allah. Both sides, Christians and Muslims can play this circular game of who blames who. Spain was ruled by Gothic Christians before the Muslim invasion in the 8th century I believe. So couldn’t the Reconquista and Inquistion that expelled the Muslims be justified because Spain was christian first? You see my point, I could go through every single one of your charges and do the same thing. But that would accomplish nothing. What matters now is that a minority of fundamentalist Muslims wish to reconquer and impose their worldview on first other muslims, and then the whole world at large. They don’t want peaceful coexistence and they don’t want to negotiate because of their religous zeal. The vast majority of those killed in “self-defense” in Iraq and Afghanistan are other muslims who disagree with their agenda. That is why the west will fight and oppose Islamic radicalism, not for some Neo-Imperial dream or a desire to control the lives of others.
I have enjoyed reading so much history on the crusades and the birth of islam. Some of you really know your stuff, but I think the main point is that the Obama campaign and Obama himself continue to lie about his background. Why? I think most of us don’t care about one’s religion but to deny what he has written himself and to attack those of us that want to know is scary. I hate to use the Hitler analogy but there is a lot of similarities between the two camps. Obviously disregarding any refrence to the Holocaust, the propaganda machine, the intimidation towards the questioners, the media control, the ability to use public organizations for his own purposes and his constant denying and then changing facts as they come up. Forget his religion and focus on his total lack of truthfullness.
It’s pronoun trouble. The “his Muslim background” phrase uses “his” to refer to Obama’s half-brother, not to Obama. I was suspicious of the phrasing so had to wait for someone who could understand the Army Radio web site.
It may very well be that I’m in the minority here. The Bible is my source for truth. And I know I need to listen to what God might teach me to be that truth, rather than lean on my own understanding.
It was 9/11 that turned my interest to a people – and a part of the world – that, quite honestly, I’d not spent much time thinking about. For as long as I can remember, my heart has loved Israel and the Jew. I know the Arab through my uncle, by marriage, and though his voice was gruff-sounding, he was loveable. And he adored my aunt, who was our favorite.
When considering the faiths of various people, we perhaps can learn something from each one. But I don’t think any of us spends enough time alone with the one who’s created us – to learn from Him what it is He would teach us. We robotically follow the requirements of our faith, but our hearts not not fully engaged.
In my search to understand the children of Ishmael, I found in Genesis, this:
“thou…shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him…” Gen.16:11,12
In Ch. 16, it was Sarai – not yet Sarah – who could not wait on the Lord – putting her will above God’s in order to have a child. She took matters into her own hands – offering her handmaid, Hagar, to Abram – not yet Abraham. Hagar bears Abram’s first son. God immediately establishes his convenant with Abraham in Ch. 17.
God loves each one of us, and is beyond able to reconcile us to Him. It would seem that what He works in the heart of every man, He is also working in the heart of every nation.
It took me many years to be aware of what He was doing in me. And I’m sure there is much more I have yet to learn. It is with great difficulty that a man comes to any understanding. How much more difficult must it then be for a nation?
For if, at best, it takes one man – his heart divided in its loyalty (his own will vs. God’s will) – years to realize some truth, how much more must it take for a nation – having a multitude of hearts divided in loyalty – to be reconciled?
Everything I’ve read says he a Moslem. I don’t know why he won’t admit. He attended a Koranic school. His father was a Moslem (the sole defining factor). He may want to say he’s an apostate Moslem or a recovering Moslem, but he’s a Moslem.
He better be. As a life-long McGovern Democrat we need a Moslem in the White House, someone of the same faith to negotiate truces with our enemies so that they become our Moslem friends. A Christian can’t do that. (How are Christians and Jews described by Moslems again, ‘sons of pigs and apes’–isn’t that it.) They’ll only trust a Moslem.
P. Ami
Thank you for your criticism. Albeit I disagree. I am always looking to exercise my mind. I cannot deny the horrors of the Haditha nor would I want to. At the moment I am not going to check Judeo- Christian vs Islam when it comes to each states legal system. This can go in directions that I do not wish. I will say I trust my judgment to research information. Rather than sit back and get information around the water cooler.
“Rick Moran — I suggest doing a little more homework before publishing next time.”
Agreed. Rick Moran has been played for a white guilt tripped fool. The Obama camp is brilliantly pushing the scam job that the only real opposition to Barack “Barry” Obama is from right wing crazies who believe he is a secret Muslim extremist. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is not one center right thinker who agrees with this nonsense. Mr. Moran is essentially knocking down a straw man that barely exists. I am further astonished to see that Mayor Michael Bloomberg has also jumped onto this idiotic bandwagon. Jews, for instance, should not even be slightly concerned about Obama secretly supporting terrorism. No, they should instead be wary of his instinctually self-hating Americanism blaming the rage of the Islamic nihilists on our allegedly imperialistic foreign policy.
I’d hate to be a blogger such as you. Like dozens of others, you think that by saying liberal things on a supposedly conservative web site you are going to “attract the widest possible audience” and give your career as a “writer” a boost – maybe even work for the New York Times! Get used to the anonymous life.
I think it’s time as this thread winds down for a comments round up. Let’s list the varied assertions made in this comments section alone by people defending the idea that he is a “secret Muslim”:
Obama isn’t black, he’s arab, not only that but a secret “Arab Wolf”.
Obama supports overthrowing Kenya’s government.
The muslims world supports Obama but the Muslims will kill Obama for being an apostate.
Obama hates white people.
Godwin! From “serious person” John Sanford: Obama is like Hitler.
Obama isn’t a natural born citizen hence not eligible for president.
Obama is a communist.
The media is in collusion to elect Obama.
My favorite from second “serious person” Believer: Obama is the result of a breeding experiment between white communist American women and black, african and asian men to achieve positions of power… WTH?
John Samford makes another appearance suggesting that George Soros is paying me to comment on this blog… WTH again?
Sandra M jumps in with a mention of my mispelling of the word paid which means… I need to work on my arithmetic… WTH x 3!
This is how people who believe Obama is a Muslim think. It’s illuminating and points out why there is such a strong correlation between conspiracy believers like 9/11 truthers and those who actually believe this meme.
I can’t say it better than Boris already did: “Obama has to be a Muslim, because the people here hate him and they hate Muslims, so therefore, by the transitive property of stupidity, Obama is a Muslim.”
Nina,
I’m a liberal troll. I read the article expecting it to attck Obama but it all fell a bit flat.
It did a good job pointing out lack of substance of the lie about Obama being muslim and the perfidiousness of Fox in their report about his brother. But it didn’t live up to the promise of the headline. I could add that the fact that they put the famous photo of Obama-looking-muslim at the top of this article removes the sting from the attempt to attack him, his team, from not wanting another Obama-looking-muslim photo.
Anyway
Can a man who says “Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It’s a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It’s a faith based upon love, not hate.” be President in this time of conflict. I say yes! I also say that anyone who says “No” is an ignorant fool.
Hello — thanks for responding to my comment. Since you clearly have studied something about the religion of Islam, then you should also know that the religion itself is indistibguishable from the government itself or the judiciary branches within Islamic societies. In this sense you’re perpetuating an extremely false equivalence between a so-called Christian society such as ours, and any of the 57 or so “Islamic nations”. They openly profess to take Islam as their blueprint for their societies. In the West we have long had a separation of Church and State – many attribute this to the Christian edict (not always perfectly practiced) of ‘Render unto Caesar that which is his due…’. In any event, this splendid arrangement of separating the secular institutions within our society from the clutches of the clergy has enabled us to become the most successful society in human history. But when Muslims use this false equivalence that their religion is the same as ours, or that we too have committed violence, (a thousand years ago..) so that current Islamic perfidy is no different, it is a grave distortion of the truth. Why perpetuate their sinister propaganda?
Also, it strikes me as foolish in the extreme to simply assume that their mentality is anything like our own viz. religion. Islam has always been spread by the sword with the ultimate goal of conquering the planet — that’s not a distortion of Islam — it’s a purist expression of it. In those periods in the past when Christianity was spread by force, it’s extremely difficult to claim such behavior was in any way “Christ-like”. But when Muslims wage violent Jihad, when they gouge eyes, chop hands and heads, enslave, or wage widespread genocide, they are following the living example of their heinous vicious madman “prophet” Muhammad.
For these reasons, and many more, it’s wrong to assume that those who are DEEPLY worried about Obama’s possible Muslim associations could only be motivated by a bigoted animus, as I maintain Mr. Rick Moran does above. As I stated above, I don’t think he’s a Muslim, but I suspect he’s extremely incapale of looking at Islam critically in every sense of the word. As for “Islamic associations”, I find his long standing associations with various criminal Muslims and Arabs, and his long standing and close friendship with the notorious Ialamist Khalidi to be very disturbing.
Finally — I am not a religious believer, but I think our society has benefitted immensely from our Christian past. I maintain that we have benefitted far more than we have suffered. I don’t consider Islam to have conferred much that is worthy, accirming, or good within any society it has infected. It has destroyed many former great nations and reduced them to wastelands – think Byzantium ( now Turkey), Persia (now Iran), Egypt, etc.
I don’t think Obama is a Muslim. I don’t think he’s a Christian, either.
He’s an opportunist.
Lyddea has not been careful enough in her “round up.” No where have I stated that I believe Obama to be a Muslim. I’ve expressed other concerns.
I chose, instead, to comment on Obama’s character, judgment and loyalty. I mentioned another article regarding Obama’s connection to Communism. In an aside, I quoted another woman’s comments: Marilyn Katz, who related her own experience with her radical parents. It had nothing to do with being Muslim. But everything to do with being a radical leftist.
I confess I appreciate dialogue – the exchange of thoughts and information – and the work of getting at the truth. Even if it means exploring what we’d rather not contemplate.
As I said, I found Katz’s statement to be “interesting.” I won’t reject it outright. I’ll consider it along with other information I’ve gathered. I’ll add now that I’ve also read Obama was resentful of his mother in that he felt he was some sort of social experiment of hers.
Admittedly, I’ve been naive in my life. But over time, I’ve come to learn there is almost boundless evil in this world. Few things should surprise us anymore.
I still remember the desk I was sitting at when I learned of the horrors of the Holocaust. And who has not been horrified to hear that parents strap bombs to their own babies? It horrifies me enough to know that Obama stood – alone – in the state senate and spoke out against allowing lifesaving aid to an infant that survived an abortion.
We have known in recent years that priests have violated the trust of young boys. And another evil has been perpetrated in churches: teaching hate and outright lies to anger and embitter parishoners.
This done with no shame – openly, recorded and sold – to be distributed for all to hear and see. Leading innocents to believe it is truth – sanctioned by God – cloaked with just enough of the Christian message to make it palatable.
There are 3 things that I’ve concluded about Senator Obama. He is an easy liar. He cannot be trusted. He is far too comfortable with evil. Perhaps he doesn’t recognize evil. But whether he does or not, he chose to partner with it. Repeatedly. For decades.
Our president needs to know evil when he sees it. And be willing to do everything in his power to see that it not destroy the nation he leads.
Barack Obama cannot be trusted to do either.
If you know anything about Islamic law, you can’t leave it if you are born a Muslim. Fundamentalists kill you for that.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=8002
If his father was a lapsed Muslim, and he has a Muslim name, he is Muslim under Islamic law whether or not he claims to be. Technically speaking, if he keeps saying he is a Christian, he is an apostate Muslim and should be jailed or executed in countries under Syariah.
http://www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.html
http://www.indomedia.com/bpost/072006/9/depan/utama4.htm
This is the Indonesian newspaper article which quotes someone as saying he was a muslim but converted to marry.
“Barry masuk ke SD Fransiskus Asisi pada 1 Januari 1968 dan duduk di kelas 1B. Agama Barry yang tertulis dalam dokumen itu adalah Islam. ”
It says that the religion listed in his school registration is Islam.
“Barry dulu memang beragama Islam. Ayah kandungnya, Barack Husein Obama adalah seorang muslim ahli ekonomi asal Kenya. Sebelum menikah dengan Ann Dunham, Husein Obama telah menikah dengan orang Kenya dan mendapat
keturunan tujuh anak. Semua saudara sebapak Barry ini beragama Islam.”
Translation- Barry definitely used to be Muslim. His biological father Barack Husein Obama is a muslim economist of Kenyan origin. Before marrying Ann Dunham, he was married to a Kenyan and had seven kids. All Barry’s cousins are Muslim
No offence but if his dad had a first marriage to a Muslim, he has to be Muslim under Islamic law. No mixed marriages allowed. If all his cousins are Muslim it would be a good indication they got it from their Dad. Certainly any Muslim person reading this, would assume Obama is legally Muslim. Being somewhat arrogant, they would also assume his Christian thing was all an act permitted under something called Taqiyya.
Strangely enough the so called ignorant people here are actually just aware
that Islam is inherited and can’t be left except in extreme circumstances.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/bal-te.obama16mar16,1,7181735,full.story
Here’s the La times article with most of this data. School paperwork says Muslim. Has prayed before Allah. Biological father Muslim born. Stepfather Muslim. Stepbrothers all Muslim. In Malaysia which is moderate Islamic, he wouldn’t be legally allowed to break the fast. Islamic police could arrest him.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&page
wanted=print&oref=slogin
Another NY times article – Obama would be an apostate. That’s not a bad thing. And its not like the kind of radical muslim who wants to kill apostates wouldn’t already be trying to kill him for being a Us presidential candidate so its no implication on his fitness for the job.
Religion of peace? 2:216 declares Jihad ordained for Muslims. That means its mandatory, not optional. 8:39 tells Muslims to fight pagans until only Allah is worshiped. 9:29 commands Muslims to fight Jews & Christians until they are subjugated and pay extortion. 9:111 defines the relationship between Allah and Muslims as master:slave. Allah purchased them so they fight in his cause, kill and are killed. 64:10…13 set Jihad as the price of admission to Paradise.
If Obama was not Muslim, why can he recite the Adhan in Arabic, and why does he call it “the prettiest sound at sunset”?
If Obama is genuinely Christian and has completely abandoned Islam, then let him publicly denounce the Qur’an verses which sanctify and mandate Jihad, genocide & terrorism.
P. Ami:
The Bible has no interpretive text.
The Talmud is the interpretive (If that is what you want to call it) text for the Torah.
The Haditha accompanied by the Surah are the interpretive texts for the Koran.
Mr Moran, the problem that Obama has is not that he is a Muslim, it’s that he lies that was never a Muslim. His father was a Muslim, Obama was registered as a Muslim in a Muslim school in Indonesia, his African siblings say he was a Muslim, that their family were devout Muslims.
Then we get to Obama’s ‘Christianity’. Obama was converted by Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Obama stayed and supported that church for 20 years. Rev Wright is a former Muslim, now Christian. The problem here is the type of ‘Christianity’ Obama believes in and it’s apparently a Black Liberation theology, it’s a racist view of humanity and it’s a hate creed.
Would a White Christian Identity White Presidential candidate be accepted, if he said he was a ‘committed Christian’? So, why should Obama and his beliefs, his honestly, his character and his judgment get a pass?
It’s Obama, who’s keeping the secrets and covering up and lieing. If he’d been honest, there
With 126 postings, (and counting) it’s clear that the Obama/Islam matter is not over. In the thread above I see quite a few commentors who are concerned for various reasons about Obama’s undeniable Muslim heritage – and for good reason. So despite Mr. Moran’s glib attempt to assert without any evidemce that these concerns about Islam themselves are a “smear”, his article ironically turns out to be one of the only smears I see in evidence. It isn’t often that PJM articles garner 100+ postings, and well a tiny handul above may fall into the category of “fringe”, I think Mr. Moran has displayed his own fringe mentality, and a mendatiousness which does not suit this site very well. His message and method is akin to the broken old leftist media’s relentless propaganda machine which PJM was intended to debunk.
Does a “confirmed” Christian believe in and vote for partial-birth abortion?
“I’m a Christian”–just words?
Isn’t it interesting that the left demand we call Islam the Religion of Peace, the left is against the words Islamofascism, jihadist, terrorist, etc. And yet, when Barry Hussein is identified as one of these glorious practitioners of the Religion of Peace, it is branded a smear?! Evidently leftists figure it’s fine and dandy to be a muslim, but don’t claim that one of their own is! Why, that’s a smear!
hello,
“At the moment I am not going to check Judeo- Christian vs Islam when it comes to each states legal system. This can go in directions that I do not wish. I will say I trust my judgment to research information. Rather than sit back and get information around the water cooler.”
— I promise that if you were to make a comparative analysis of Jewish legal precedence against Islam’s legal precedence that you will only go in directions you do not wish only if you wish to consider both systems to be equally humane. From the shallows to the depth you will find Muslim orthodoxy to be far less inclined towards human decency.
— I never suggested that you were getting your information from around a water cooler. At least the stupid things said around a water cooler can be dismissed on pure ignorance. The stupid things taught to you in college, on the other hand, are certified and accredited. Those professors did you a disservice, taking your money and handing you opinions clothes as fact.
davod,
Quoting from my post, “For the Bible, the interpretive or precedent recording text is called the Talmud”.
The Bible, in Hebrew Tanach, is the Torah, Prophets and Writings (Song of Songs, Psalms etc…). I suppose you would have had an easier time understanding if I had written “Hebrew Bible” or “Old Testament”. Point being, when I think of the Bible the Torah is the fundamental text. It is here that we find the various laws given to the Jews and provides the core text of the Jewish Judicial System. You are right then in considering the Talmud (both Babylonian and Jerusalem) to be the codification of what had been an oral tradition of precedent setting cases based on the Torah.
While saying that the Torah is the Bible is perhaps not a full expression of what constitutes the Bible, saying that the Torah is not the Bible happens to exclude a text which even Christians consider to be part of their Bible.
Lyddea said: Sandra M jumps in with a mention of my mispelling of the word paid which means… I need to work on my arithmetic… WTH x 3!
Sandra: Forget working on your spelling or your arithmetic. You seriously need to work on your READING COMPREHENSION. I said you need to work on your arithmetic and in the next paragraph showed why.
You also distorted and exaggerated what others had said. And you snarkily accuse others of not being “serious persons?” ROTFL
Rick -
I have read a number of places that Obama has never produced a Valid Certificate of his Birth.
If he was born in Hawii when it was not a State, he is not able, under U.S. Law to be President of the U.S. Both parents had to U. S. Citizens.
Where was he really,born?
Would you see if this is true or rumor?
“While saying that the Torah is the Bible is perhaps not a full expression of what constitutes the Bible, saying that the Torah is not the Bible happens to exclude a text which even Christians consider to be part of their Bible.”
Sorry Mate:
The Bible is the Bible, the Torah is the Torah.
Wikipedia says he was born 1961 and Hawaii became a state 1959 so the “born in Hawaii when its not a state” is not true.
Well, somebody better tell Qadahafi Obama’s not a Muslim. Check out:
gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/06/obama-opts-out-of-public-financing-to.html
Ever the victim, Obama says he needs extra money to fight the “smears.”
The video is of Qadahafi speaking out about Obama and his concerns about him as our president…if translation is correct.
A more lighthearted video is at youtube.com. “Obama’s Strange Bedfellows”
“Ken W,” Though “Jack Brennan’s” point about Hawaii per say was off, he is absolutely correct that a GENUINE birth certificate has not yet been put forth. The one that is going around on the web has been proven to be a digitized forgery so, at best, a real one is still in order..furthermore, the fact that a FAKE one was created does IMHO beg the question of “what,” regarding the actual one, would one feel in need to hide.
When Mitt Romney was in contention no one thought it strange to talk about him being a Mormon. I don’t think it strange to talk about Obama being a Christian/Moslem, couldn’t he be both just to get the votes needed to be President? Just because he walked the walk with Mr. Farakkan and talked the talk with Rev. “Goddamn America” Wright doesn’t make him a ‘Black Muslim’ like Farakkan or a Kook-O-Bird like Rev. “Goddamn” he’s just a Christian/Moslem/Buddhist/Protestant doing what’s necessary to snow the American People to become President of the United States with out having the experience necessary to run a small village in Kenya. You do what you’ve got to do folks, lets take a chance and vote for him regardless of what religion he might have and what he has in store for us; it’ll be interesting and hair raising, like jumping off the Empire State Building without a parachute.
Chiphilton: It isn’t just partial birth abortion, he believes in letting a child, a product of a botched abortion, in other words the child is alive, lay there and die!
I don’t think even the most liberal of liberals would go along with that. Would they?
“Muslims engage in a symbolic act — of saying the Call to Prayer in the child’s ear — that renders a child Muslim. If Obama’s father was agnostic/atheist, then he wouldn’t have done such a thing.”
How the H do you know that? You are as looney as anybody. The truth is that there is smoke and therefore fire. Is there anything that man says that you can rely on? His comments on Rev Wright? The Weathermen? Rezko?
He’s out there on the stump now tossing around scripture like he’s had his nose in the Bible for decades.
Who’s he trying to kid? We know it’s to make this ‘Muslim stuff’ go away.
This guy will pull anything, become anybody, say or do anything to win. And we thought Slick Willy was good. Those Clintons could learn a thing or two from this one.
If the Veep spot is supposed to fill in where the top of the ticket is weak, it will never be Hillary’s.
No one less than the Pope is gonna do it. Mother Teresa’s no longer available.
A few comments:
1) Rick Moran is an atheist. Thus his opinion that religion doesn’t belong in politics is simply biased and not actually accepted in the US.
2) The common folk do use religion as one measure of a man, since they can immediately relate to much of his ethics and morality, if, that is, he is a Christian, as are perhaps 80% or more of the people. If the man is not a Christian, then all bets are off, since his ethics and morality are open, and quite unknown questions.
3) It would be highly surprising if our legislators, administrators and judges were not swayed to some definite degree by their religion and their moral learning. Or are we governed by logical robots, perhaps of the Ayn Rand school?
4) If a man or woman is an atheist, a Muslim, or any of a horde of other religions, he will not be elected to the highest office in the US, President, our one Muslim congressional accident aside. This in accord with (2) above.
5) Obama’s real religion may or may not be Christianity, though that is his stated faith. An ambitious man, Obama has carefully picked his path to power, so his professed religion may be terribly weak, albeit Black Liberation for 20 years.
We have precious little ability to see into his mind, especially as he is a “Teleprompter Kid”, reading what he has been given, and nearly inarticulate away from one, except for the party line.
He reminds me of a presenter that once worked for me. We could review and modify his presentations and tune him to deliver exactly what we wanted him to say and in the right inflection and tone, even if he didn’t really understand the subject. Sound familiar? With enough repetition, he could regurgitate the same ideas at will, but could not answer detailed questions correctly, and had to be backstopped with knowledgable people.
6) So far, all I see of Obama’s backstops is a gaggle of highly suspect clowns, and it seems to be the plan to make that much worse with retreads from Clinton years.
May God help us.
His first speech as dictator was to the muslim world. He has stated he will side with muslims if necessary, he bows to the the terroist king of saudi arabia, his faith advisor is a pro osama bin laden muslim, he repeatedly ignores the will of the people, hates israel, gives al queda in libya and palestine money..sounds like a muslim to me…
Through pure serendipity, I found the relevant provision of Islamic law in Volume one of Hedaya, on page 64. I also found confirmation in reliance of The Traveller, Book m13.2(c). I documented my discovery here: http://infidelsunited.com/documents/2944/143/obama-is-legally-muslim