Obama Didn’t Address Middle America in the Debate
On the night of the first presidential debate, I shrieked when Barack Obama said in response to John McCain’s suggestion of a spending freeze to alleviate our financial crisis, “The problem with a spending freeze is you’re using a hatchet where you need a scalpel. There are some programs that are very important that are under-funded. I want to increase early childhood education and the notion that we should freeze that when there may be, for example, this Medicare subsidy doesn’t make sense.”
In response to McCain’s suggestion of considering a spending freeze except for “the caring of veterans, national defense, and several other vital issues,” Obama had the audacity to suggest increases for government preschools. Then he suggested cutting the military budget: “Let me tell you another place to look for some savings. We are currently spending $10 billion a month in Iraq when they have a $79 billion surplus. It seems to me that if we’re going to be strong at home as well as strong abroad, that we have to look at bringing that war to a close.”
Apparently, for Obama, government preschools will make us “strong at home.”
I had received a call from a friend that afternoon asking if I could give her a ride to our usual Friday night activity of contra dancing. She could not find gas to buy in the Atlanta area — even at $4.20 a gallon. On my seven-mile drive home from work, I passed a dozen gas stations with their price signs blank, except for one that had a line of cars out in the street with drivers waiting to buy gas.
Here, we’re worried about being able to buy gas to get to work. Across the country, people are worried about losing their life savings and their homes. Some say that this is the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
And Barack Obama wants to increase spending on government preschools.
I anxiously awaited commentary on this absurdity from the pundits lined up on Fox News.
Nothing.
Nothing on CNN or MSNBC either. In fact, many commentators, even conservatives, opined that Obama won the debate in terms of style and effectiveness. Why? He said “middle class” numerous times, while McCain did not. McCain failed to connect with Middle America, they said. In fact, the Obama campaign has released an ad with an announcer saying, “Number of minutes in debate: 90. Number of times John McCain mentioned the middle class: zero.”
But despite his repetition of the phrase, and the recently acquired flag lapel pin, Barack Obama is not appealing to the middle class or to Middle America.
Funny how my Middle-American, Independent family absolutely feels more in touch with Obama and does feel like he is speaking to us… More-so than McCain.
Please don’t underestimate the Youth vote in this country and our desire for better education & (medical) science programs, renewable energies, and fair health plans.
If cell phones were polled than everyone would see there is no chance for the GOP this year.
20 of the past 28 years have been Republican led and this country is greatly off balance.
Oh and teaching young children to protect themselves from predators *should* be a priority. Period.
“Sami” seems to be speaking out of both sides of his/her mouth. Dream on about your “education & (medical) science programs, renewable energies, and fair health plans,” as they cannot proceed at the same time as responsibly addressing the current economic situation…or did you miss the 1st debate?
Not even ADULTS could protect themselves from a Zerobama police-state. Were he elected, is “Rules for Radicals” techniques will squelch freedom in this country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ2DXN3aOSo
“Middle American” “independents”. HA! Nice job, but five points off for forgetting the “Concerned Christian” boilerplate.
I couldn’t believe my ears when Jim Lehrer asked Obama about spending cuts. All O could do was recite a laundry list of spending INCREASES. “Fiscal responsibility” isn’t just something “above his paygrade” – in the Messiah’s mind it simply does not compute. Soros’ Magic Negro ventriloquist dummy is determined to pass out cash to all our favorite lefty victim constituencies – shortfalls or no shortfalls. Don’t tell me about “plans” for health care, renewable energy, and so on. The lightworker has no real “plans”. His only “plan” is divying up the spoils looted from taxpayers and, when necessary, throwing his subordinates under the bus.
What’s he going to do once he finishes driving the nation’s tax base overseas? Blaming Bush & having his subs fall on their swords will probably work for the first year and a half at most – even with the Media running interference. Any longer than that and the Lightworker’s going to be searching the want ads.
we aren’t teaching kids how to think. we are teaching them what to think. we should teach them not to be predators. the sound bites are for public consumption and we have to take them at face value? i wonder why people think the average American is dumb. they aren’t lazy, on the contrary, they are to busy working to make ends meet. take in the news from a trusted source and go with that. although you can’t trust it any longer.hmmm didn’t we just cover that issue. the issue here is the average joe or john is now paying attention. bet this November is gonna be a large turnout of voters.
truth talks and bullshit walks.
Sami, you would do yourself a favor by actually reading the bill that you are referring to when talking about sexual predators.
I’ll include a link with more detail below, but in case you don’t want to click, I’ll include the most relevant part:
“The McCain ad is correct. The bill, SB 99, is a radical expansion of sex education, ratcheting down the initiation age from sixth grade to kindergarten, and eliminating moral language that supports marriage and abstinence. Only a tiny portion of the bill addresses how kids can be protected from unwanted sexual advances.”
This bill was defeated for a reason.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/robert-knight/2008/09/17/cnn-continues-push-obama-line-mccain-lied-about-sex-ed
So easy for pundits to point out to McCain what he SHOULD have done. If you have ever been in any kind of live performance situation, you know that you cannot always assimilate everything that is happenening nor react in the way that you would in less stressful conditions.
I’d like to see all these pundits get up and do improv and not forget to point this out or mention that.
In time, an experienced performer can come up with the goods, but even Sen McCain deserves a pass for not having managed to please every da*n pundit out there watching from their armchairs.
Lay off a little, why don’t ya.
I thought the debate was about international policy and national security. Should we or should we not talk with Ahmadinejad? Come on, middle class, show them! Georgia, Russia, Ukraine (does Obama know what Ukraine is, btw? seems like he’s heard the word for the first time in his life) – all the typical and specifical problems of the middle class. And John McCain didn’t mention it? How dares he!
Gee, why is somebody using my name?
Excellent!
I was wondering when we’d get to the “covert racism” accusations! Keep it up.
Not to mention the psuedo-psychological analysis: those who criticize the Lightworker must somehow be mentally defective.
Given that opponents of the lightworker must be motivated by “racism” or mental handicap, it’s only natural that the Obamessiah must shield them from dangerous ideas. Like the First Amendment:
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=13330
“HOPE” & “CHANGE”.
Middle Class Americans? Oh you mean that quaint
group of white people of European heritage that use to run things? Forget about them, they are, in effect,merely the history of the middle to late 20th century. The hispanic and third world birthrate in the USA is 6x that of whites. The demographic profile of the future will make the
election of an Obama inevitable. And once it happens the destruction really begins.
“Oh and teaching young children to protect themselves from predators *should* be a priority. Period.”
Sami, can you tell me why young children need to protect THEMSELVES from predators?
Because liberal judges give wrist slaps to molesters and say these predators can be rehabilitated.
Why does the government spend so much time compiling websites to check the sexual offenders in neighborhood? Why do the flyers keep arriving at my child’s school warning of the recent sexual offender “neighbor?”
Again, liberal judges and the ACLU.
Your party is the cause of programs like this needing to even be implemented.
realitycheq,
I agree that Obama will win this election. I am a McCain voter, and McCain missed some opportunities to eviscerate Obama on economics.
McCain wants renewable energy too. He also wants more energy of all kinds. Renewable energy has been lackluster in its performance. They set up a wind farm in California that only performed at 10% of the rate it was supposed to. Renewable energy is far from reliable energy yet.
I think everyone wants to leave a better place for their kids. Obama and the Democrats will leave us in a far different place than the Republicans. If you want large government, and are for large social programs-vote Democratic. But don’t bitch when your kids can’t get ahead, or the government begins to make all your critical decisions for you (like health care, retirement, where you go to school, what job you will have) You will no longer be in Milton Friedman’s words “Free to Choose”, which is a book that I would urge you to read.
Fact is, people are angry on both sides of this debate. Obama’s plans will NOT harm the very wealthy in this country. They have so much money they are affected by little. The people that are moving from one income bracket to another, rising up the ladder, the middle class-those people will be detrimentally affected by Obama.
It also sounds like you are a war voter. Terrorism is a dangerous thing. We need to stop it. Obama will do nothing to stop it-and with Russia rising, and others rising, Obama showed that he was clueless when compared to McCain as how to deal with it.
He is dangerous to put in the White House at this time.
realitycheq:
I’m glad you agree with Obama’s “tax the rich and give to the poor” scheme — but let’s bypass the goverment incompetence and all the middlemen and hand over 50% of your paycheck every month to me directly, ’cause, dontchaknow, you OWE me, richiegirlie..
Pay up girlie-girl. Time for the audacity of HOPE and CHANGE and I HOPE I can get some change in my redneck life with YOUR hardearned dollars.
Oh wait. You don’t like that? you want the monetary gift to be watered down first by all those “Barney Frank and Franklin Reine” hands scooping a generous percentage off the top to pad their fat pocketbooks? But then less of your money gets to me, the poor and the oppressed person of colour, and my guns and religion are left with less money to put food on my table.
IF YOU WANT TO GIVE MONEY or SERVICES TO THE POOR– donate YOUR OWN MONEY– but don’t VOTE TO DONATE MINE. And while you’re out there donating to your favorite PreSchool organization so that they can teach homosexual sex and masturbation techniques, why don’t you CALL JOE “PLUGS” BIDEN and encourage him to donate more than .05% (one half of one percent) of his $2million a year income to charities?
Realitycheq,
I don’t mind my taxes helping less fortunate who help themselves first. I do mind my tax dollars paying for illegal aliens to go to college.
Is this the type of college program I should be funding?
University of California—Los Angeles
The Psychology of the Lesbian Experience reviews “various aspects of lesbian experience” including the “impact of heterosexism/stigma, gender role socialization, minority status of women and lesbians, identity development within a multicultural society, changes in psychological theories about lesbians in sociohistorical context.”
Obama likes to engage in class warfare, and he did just that in the debate.
No to the Nanny State! No to Obama and No to more taxes to pay for more socialism in schools. Our colleges are turning out uneducated “give me free everything” zombies waving worthless paper! This is what the Dems have wrought. Congress has the lowest rating in history…why? It is full of Dems who think everything should be given to the have nots (lazy do nothings) by the haves (hardworking pay their bills Americans). O I better be careful here or Obama and the Dems will send their “truth squads” to take me away!
donna: If sexual predators and child molesters were vigorously prosecuted, the GOP side of the House of Representatives would vanish overnight. Carefeul what you wish for.
Listen, I’m a teacher and the mom of a toddler, with another on the way. I know that GOOD early childhood education is vital for success in school and I would love to see funding increased for it. However, we have to be able to pay for it, this bailout and everything else. Something must be cut or taxes must be increased.
If Obama is going to increase funding for early childhood and cut taxes on some, funding must be decreased elsewhere or deficient spending will increase. Obama says he wants to balance the budget so what will he be cutting?
He refuses to tell us.
The math doesn’t work out.
McCain knows this.. even if he is “old and out of touch” but the supposedly brilliant Obama either hasn’t figured this out or won’t tell us. Which is it?
Thanks Mary for a great commentary,
My wife and I are as middle class as you can get. White middle aged working class. We can see what govenment meddling in the motgage business has done.The politicions blame greedy CEOs,baloney.We don’t want the politicions making health care descisions for us.
I can’t see how any hard working person or business owner can vote for a canidate who says they want to raise taxes and increase government spending. I know that means less money at the end of the month and my employer may not give raises and may have to raise his prices.
You are right,those disenfranchised and those who have not yet been out there in the work (real)world will vote for Obama.The more experienced people will vote for the more experienced (McCain).
Before we go point by point on this analysis on Mary Grabar’s benefits of an Obama ruler, let me suggest the Democrat modification of an old Lao Tzu proverb: Give a man a fish and he will come back to you for more, teach a man to fish and you lose all control.
“..more money spent on renewable energy and less money spent on war.”
My perspective on this election is more plebian: when they find a “need” to spend more money, it will come out of my more shallow pocket. Why is it that you are not more actively investing in these ideas? Or is it that you are investing in these in a manner similar to Mr. Pickens and speaker Pelosi by creating an industry that can only make money if our government supports it with either tax breaks or subsidies and earmarks (which my friends and I do not get).
“That means more mony spent on science and technology,…”
“Thata also means more money spent providing…, childcare,…, and college assistance.”
“When it comes to increasing lifetime learning ability, prenatal care and early childhood education programs have been clearly demonstrated to be more effective than anything else.”
The disconnect here is that it has been the mission of Mr Obama’s closest friend in Chicago, William Ayres, to create a K-12 school system whose goal is teaching social activism before any of those courses you might think would educate someone to apply for your job (like math or science or english). Mr. Obama is surely aboard this boat as witnessed by his documented desire to promote fact based sex education for all K-12 students. That will be an exciting conversation you will want to have with your 6 year old granddaughter: “so, Sami, what medications did your teacher tell you to take when you have chlamydia?”
The one adjective most used in your paragraph is the one word that I fear most: MORE. More government can only mean more taxes. Raising corporate taxes (currently second highest in the industrialized world) and those on the wealthy just trickle down to me. It will be a long time for you to get to a point where you have to reduce your lifestyle to pay more taxes. It is not that long for me and for many of my friends. On the other end, if I am not mistaken, there are over 40% of Americans who pay no income tax. That is a LOT of MORE that you, I and my friends have to help.
I am not from the same wealthy perch where you sit. At the same time, I do earn enough to pay a lot of taxes. So I have been nervously watching whatever earned funds I might have put away to assist with my daughters’ college funds potentially become signnificantly less in today’s market with the bailout.
Here’s a novel idea: accountability and core needs. Think about it when you talk of more government money for (fill in the blank).
And I did this all without bringing up race!
People don’t get that Obama (and the Dems) regard anyone making less than $X as “middle-American”. Since 50% of the population don’t pay any taxes, when he talks about tax breaks he is really talking about increased welfare in some form. This has been true for a long time, and it’s just another way to redistribute $$$ while not openly admitting what is going on. The Dem “victim” base, however, understands the code.
As for the debate: McCain was hamstrung. He could not address root causes of the “crisis” or the obvious self-serving flaws in the Dem proposal because Congress was in the middle of working toward an agreement, and he has hung his hat on facilitating exactly this kind of bi-partisan process. Meanwhile Dems could lie with impunity, and Obama could go in front of the press and accuse Bush and the Republicans of being the bad guys (again) because they wouldn’t just accept the garbage the Dems were promoting. Yep, that’s “working to bring us together”. And of course the media didn’t call him on it. I sincerely hope Palin, or McCain in the next debate, relaxes the verbal constraints on this travesty and blasts the miscreant Democrats.
Ya gotta love the posters who buy the “marching arm-in-arm into a shining future” myth of which Obama is so fond. It’s found on page 26 of the Communist Organizers Manual under ‘Appealing to Idiots’.
Obama’s bracelet gaffe is busted! The family didn’t want him to wear the bracelet!
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/09/28/family-told-obama-not-wear-soldier-sons-bracelet-where-media
Shockingly, however, Madison resident Brian Jopek, the father of Ryan Jopek, the young soldier who tragically lost his life to a roadside bomb in 2006, recently said on a Wisconsin Public Radio show that his family had asked Barack Obama to stop wearing the bracelet with his son’s name on it. Yet Obama continues to do so despite the wishes of the family.
Everyone need to read this and forward the article to everyone they know, we know that the liberal media will ry to bury the story!
Rotwang-I don’t care who disappears from the House…vigorous prosecution is more important then any than any political party.
“They didn’t love her enough. Or maybe they ‘loved’ her too much and that’s what caused her sense of entitlement.”
They just can’t stop with the crude psychoanalysis, can they? Dissent is not good-faith disagreement – it’s proof that you suffer from some pathology. I suppose this dismissiveness is so important to them because it justifies the extreme measures that they are taking to win this election – making obscene phone calls to candidates’ children, threatening to imprison opponents for “libel” – the list goes on and on. All done in the name of TEH CHIL-DREN. Better agree – otherwise You Hates The Chil-Dren.
(For the record, I am no fan of Michael Savage’s whole Liberalism = Mental Disorder meme. He and some of the commenters here are two of a kind when it comes to nastiness.)
Also note the ugly comments about the University of Georgia. I was looking in a bookstore the other day and it was chock full of “What’s the Matter With Kansas” – type bilge. it just eats Lefty writers up that voters in the South & West are leery of Democrats. Not sure why Left wingers reveal a Pavlovian loathing of Red states, only to act mystified when they can’t make any political inroads. How’s that vaunted 57 state strategy going for Obama, anyway?
“I just think she is a talentless hack (as are the vast majority of writers on this site).”
I wish “reality” wouldn’t beat herself up like that – if she sticks around maybe her writing will improve. Then again, maybe not.
Hey realitycheq – how do you have a single PhD in multiple hard sciences? Perhaps that’s just a typo on your part. I have two AS engineering degrees and I make more money than you, plus I can actually do real things like invent, build, and fix machines and electronics. Yay for me! I believe my biggest advantage is that I did not obtain my degrees at a liberal recruiting college, as you obviously did. You mentioned logic in your insulting post. I can program a logic gate, write software, and create complex relational databases so my logic is proven every day. It’s easy to see that you possess none of those skills.
chicago – thanks for the link, that’s a very interesting story and not one I’ve found at any MSM outlet. Big surprise there, of course.
As for the debate, I simply wanted the advertised topic of the debate to be addressed. The PBS moderator didn’t seem to be interested in foreign policy. Another big surprise from the MSM. Mr. Hussein Obama didn’t do too well even though the moderator was helping him stay off-topic, and BHO’s interrupting and speaking out of turn was at best, very rude. It appears that BHO missed all of his debate classes at Harvard. I’m still not impressed by BHO and it appears that I never will be. I’m still waiting for the results of the Berg vs. Obama lawsuit, something else the MSM is ignoring.
Check the status here:
http://obamacrimes.com/
realitycheq:
Your initial post about your financial position is, in my opinion, the height of smugness. You are truly an elitest snob with a smarmy attitude.
Personally, I and a lot like me do not give a crap whether your taxes go up or down if Obama wins or loses. People like are always trying to run a guilt trip on us, the great unwashed, who stuggle to attain the financial nirvana you have achieved.
I am not jealous of what you have attained (no “politics of envy” here), in fact I am glad that you have worked so hard and have been so successful. But, it does not give you the right to lobby for a better world with our money.
Like others point out, I don’t want Obama and his counterparts in the Democrat-controlled congress, taking our hard-earned money and giving it to those in society who pay no taxes already.
So, toddle off back you your free-and-clear mansions, call up Bob Brinker and find out how best to invest your wonderful wealth in this bear market, but spare us the tedious “It’s for the children” crap.
realitycheq – you’re a faud, a pseudonym for another paid Democratic “blogger”. Although I have no doubt; angry, bitter elitists like you claim to be exist, you’re not one of them. I have a feeling that you’re a twenty-something college kid sitting at a keyboard in a Democrat campaign office today. I do recognize the people you claim to be, and they’re not nice people. You seek to destry the backbone of America, the white, middle class, who attend church on Sunday, and find government intrusion into their family a bit abhorent.
Nonetheless, what you miss is, it isn’t the rich who will be hurt by Obama, as a matter of fact, the expansion of government power that has occurred under this administartion and will grow in multiples under Obama, will only further lard the pockets of a group that has gamed the system and increase the divide between the ‘Haves’ & the ‘Have somethng but not that much’.
People like Mary Graber are what makes this nation work. Like her, I teach in the public school system and see first hand the “sloth and heathen folly” that has been forced upon this nation by petulant baby-boomers like Obama, Pelosi, Reid and their ilk. Obama’s response to our current economic and social ills is to spend more money which is exactly what has gotten us into this situation in the first place. Much of the money gven to public schools or any other publicly run entity (i.e. Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac)never finds it’s way into the classroom or to the people, because the people at the top, sometimes an “old, gainfully employed, Caucasian female with a PhD in hard sciences, earning significantly more than you…” manage to put much of their money into their pockets first through worthless positions, such as paid consultants. If you’re so adamant about spending money, please give it to a charity that you have researched and know gives money directly to the people in need. Oh by the way, if you’re giving out money, I’ll take some and put it to good use directly in my class room. Sorry I’ve got to go “bitterly cling to my religion”
Rotwang
“donna: If sexual predators and child molesters were vigorously prosecuted, the GOP side of the House of Representatives would vanish overnight. Carefeul what you wish for.”
Oh, Baloney!
The democrats lost a mayor in Detroit and a governor in New York this year for sexual misconduts.. LA Mayor Villaraigosa had an affair with the Spanish TV reporter who was COVERING him this year.
Is is the GOP that introduces measures to clamp down on pedophiles. Who jumps to the defense of child predators, when we try to put trackers on their ankles? Who thinks it’s ok for patrons to watch porn online at the library? If not democrats, then surely some liberal activists groups.
realitycheq – “I am supporting Obama because I WANT TO LEAVE A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL CHILDREN INCLUDING MY OWN!”
Please explain to all of us who are beneath you in financial wherewithal and intellectual prowess how increasing the size, scope and nature of government bureaucracy and entitlements, domestically and abroad, makes the world better (I’ll settle for making America better if you like).
Surely you don’t believe Barack Obama is going to streamline and reduce government bureaucracy do you? John McCain was pretty darn clear about eliminating wasteful spending as a “gateway drug” to government corruption and runaway, wasteful government spending.
So please, enlighten us on the merits of feeding bureaucrats billions more of our hard earned tax dollars; specifically how that will bring efficiency and indeed, real solutions to the problems we face in America.
Lastly, please address the inability of the common person (as you claim to be)to manage and direct our own lives at the state, county, city, township etc. level of government. Specifically, how sending $1.00 to the Feds and getting 30 cents in return is good for “we the people.” I can’t wait to hear your compelling arguement for collectivism in the form of bigger government, increased taxation and federal spending.
I’m very curious, if you feel that you are not paying enough in taxes, why don’t you simply send the government more money? This seems to be a practical solution to your need to grow government services and make the world better. I’m sure you could convince many of your friends to do the same. I think if you, along with those of a similar mindset, just started sending in say… an extra $500 per month to the Feds you could indeed expand government programs. I would promise to monitor the results carefully.
As you can tell, I have a distinct aversion to giving more of my hard earned money to a federal government that wastes my contributions on a gargantuan scale. But, maybe you can be the one to convince me that my thinking is flawed. I’m listening.
Upper, middle or lower class, I don’t believe Obama has anything of value to offer to any segment of the population. In the past week we’ve had a clear view of how Obama responds when there’s real work to do–he issues statements and offers critiques of others’ ideas. Contrast that with McCain, who rolled up his sleeves, worked to make sure Republican House members had a role in the process, and then worked behind the scenes to facilitate a bi-partisan agreement. And then, bless his heart, takes no credit for himself. I’ve worked with people like Obama, and with people like McCain. And I’d choose McCain in a heartbeat.
Are there any intelligent people in here or just a bunch of religious redneck Republicans? Is there anyway to escape any of your close-minded talking points in here? Blah blah blah blah. It’s like watching the Peanuts cartoon and listening to the part when the teacher speaks. Blah blah blah blah blah.
CALIndie — Defense and War Budgets, Medicare, Social Security, interest on the debt make up over 80% of federal expenditures. Which of these would you like to cut? McCain’s entitlements make up about 1% of federal expenditures.
When asked what he would cut to pay for the bailout bill, 0bama talks about increases in spending, specifically early childhood education or preschool. Why does he single this one out? Right now, federal preschool exists as Head Start. Go look up how much this program costs per child. Then compare it to a local private preschool. I did. Head Start spends at least 10 times per child more than my local church based preschool. I also compared a non church based preschool, and got the same numbers. Also, a study found that children are leaving Head Start less prepared for Kindergarten than if they attended a private pre school or if they simply were ‘homeschooled’. Costs ten times more, and does less. Where have I heard this before? Oh, yeah, PUBLIC SCHOOL. BTW, I also did a comparison of my local school district budget of 100 million dollars, 7000 students, for a cost of 14K per student. Compare this with the education you receive at the local Catholic school for 4000 per. THE LAST THING WE NEED IS TO EXPAND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL MESS TO PRESCHOOL.
Hussein is a Marxist Socialist who will not win this election. Did you know he started a “Truth Squad” in Missouri? These are elected officials ie; prosecutors and police officers, whose purpose is to monitor political ads with intent to prosecute any lies or distortions. They can’t win honorable, so they are shutting down all opposition. It won’t work, trust me!
Sami,
Read Obama’s bill on sex education. It says nothing about educating children to guard against sexual predators. Don’t just listen to self-serving rhetoric by Obama. Read the actual legislation as he drafted it. Then come back and talk to us, or don’t, as I expect you’ll have nothing to say.
As someone how will vote for John McCain in the comming election I am sorry to say that Senator McCains performance in Friday’s debate left me disipointed. As we get closer to the election, Senator Obama tries to sound more-and-more like a moderate centerest. Rather than attacking Obama for what he said earlier the nominating cycle, McCain should point out that Obama now seems to agree with him on the broad principles of how we should conduct our foriegn policy. In fact, Senator Obama seems to be agreeing with what George W. Bush is actually doing. Since Senator Obama is running on the platform that he is ‘not Bush’ and that Senator McCain will be a Bush third term, in exactly what way does Senator Obama differ? Don’t let him retreat into ‘I had the judgemnet to be aginst going into Iran’. That was an action on which reasonable people might disagree. Reasonable people might disagree over when it may be necessary to violate the soverign territory of Pakistan in order to persue Al Quieda. In light of recent reports that the Bush adminestration has authorized and caried out cross boarder opperations, what would Senator Obama do further?
Also, Senator Obama is incorrrect in asserting that Al Quieda is re-assendant. International intelegence organizations seem to be agreed that Al Quieda has been greately reduced in scope and influence, partially because of convert opperations conducted around the world of which Senator Obama seems unaware, but especially because so many potential recruites where sent to Iraq, where they died. The ascendant problem in Afghanestan are the Talaban and their fundamentalist cohort in Pakistan. And does not that make this an internal ‘civil war’? What is Senator Obama’s position on U.S. envolvemnt in what is essentialy a Pakistan civil war?
Christine – there are plenty of intelligent people in here, but you are not one of them. Do you think all Republicans are religious, or “rednecks”? I see plenty of intelligent responses from folks like CALIndie and USAF Captain, among many others who make very valid points without any references to religion or rednecks. What say you? What is your label for me since I’m neither religious nor redneck?
I get a kick out of liberal or Democratic trolls. They accuse others of name-calling but they are the first ones to label others as racist and/or sexist, et al, while making derogatory remarks about anyone who questions their boilerplate talking points.
I’m still waiting for an Obama supporter to “get in my face and argue” as BHO has publicly asked of his supporters. I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Instead, his supporters troll websites posting weak comments that use name-calling and other elementary school tactics.
Christine: Sure there’s an easy way to escape “talking points” (I prefer to think of them as opinions). Close your browser, turn off your computer and, since it IS Sunday, try going to churh. Maybe you’ll expand your world, and your thinking, a bit.
CR and Dee,
All I read is blah blah blah blah *yawn* blah. Sorry guys, that wrinkly old dude just won’t cut it for most of us. We are waiting for Bush to clear out and as far as McBush, thanks but pretty please with sugar on top……no thanks.
Senator Obama without a doubt won this debate. He is clearly the leader of the two. His ability to rise above the condescencion and pettiness of his opponent showed his maturity and confidence to lead. This man is a class act and he is the person to lead this country forward.
I agree OBama will win. The Dems have enough false registrations to make it so – sad to say – of course no Republican stood a chance. The Dems have more cheating techniques this time.
Just look at Ohio.
realitycheq, I will be short, since the people before me replied to you brilliantly.
you keep on repeating like a broken record that Obama will make the world a safer place. Do you realize how stupid this sentence is? What is a “safer” world for your children? Bowing down to every anti-american whack of the world so if we cuddle them they won’t bomb us?
Are you aware that Obama supported his brother that in Kenya wants to establish sharia law? Of all the PHD you took and books you read, do you know what is sharia law? Do you think the sharia law that Obama supports for Kenya is making the world safer? What will happen when muslim demands will become greater and Obama will cave in because after all, more than half of his family is muslim?
How can you say obama keeps the higer moral ground after all the people he associated himself with? (associating yourself with a political terrorist is not going to make the world any safer for your beloved children)
Sorry to say it, but you are deluded like the other obamatrons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ2DXN3aOSo
Very frighten. Barack Obama people are running a coup in the state. He is worst than Chinese Leader Mao.
“Christine” 12:37pm – “Sorry guys, that wrinkly old dude just won’t cut it for most of us. “
I am SURE you believe this! That is why I suggest you go where the political, social and cultural system already better matches your beliefs/wishes…and, on top of that, Putin is pretty buff, dudette!
Thanks so much for the info about the bracelet and the sexual education plan of Obama. Let’s get the word out. We can’t have Obama as president. He is an arrogant man who cares for no one but himself. He just wants to be president and will say or do anything to get it. Let’s get the truth out!!!
He may not be appealing to the middle-class as you say. I don’t know about that. But I do know that if they don’t pay attention to him they are going to be exactly where they are now one year from now. Because McCain wants to continue the Bush policies and with McCain’s personality, he will probably be worse. McCain is a hot-head and Palin is no blink. No blink means that she would push that red button without even thinking twice. That sounds so scary I can’t even imagine. You may want to die but I don’t. You may rather die than have a black man lead you. But if you feel that way, leave the country. But don’t take the rest of us down with you!
Another typical Leftist tactic – claim that your opponents want to bring about Armageddon. Ridiculous, considering that both of the people on the Republican ticket have family members who may end up in the thick of things if there’s another war. Maybe that’s why neither Palin nor Johnny M. casually talks about invading Pakistan…
Markus – I’d like to start with the 30% of Medicare that is FRAUD according to the GAO. Let’s start there. Let’s spend 10-15 million dollars on auditors for Medicare and Medicaid to save BILLIONS in FRAUD.
I work in Healthcare. The waste and fraud is a freaking joke in these current FREE healthcare programs! It is the defining problem inherent in ALL government programs. WASTE, FRAUD, WASTE, FRAUD ad infinitum. What Obama wants to give us is an even bigger freaking WASTE AND FRAUD apparatus.
We hear so much from Obama about closing tax “loopholes” for corporations that are the engine of our free enterprise economy (for now). Why do we not hear about the enormous amount of FRAUD AND WASTE that is swept under the rug in Medicare? Because all that FREE healthcare buys votes that’s why. It makes me want to puke.
Then, as John McCain so clearly articulated, let’s cut the 18 BILLION + in pork barrel spending called earmarks. Why should any American taxpayer accept 18 BILLION dollars of absurd WASTE AND FRAUD?
Let’s fix the Defense Dept. bidding process as John McCain so clearly stated to eliminate BILLIONS in waste and sweetheart deals.
So you tell me Markus, if you think there’s just no way we can cut spending and lower our interest payments on money we have to borrow, you tell me smart guy how increasing spending, earmarks, pork, bureaucracy, entitlements, social programs while making the govt. bigger and bigger is the answer.
You tell me Markus, how we can do it using a scalpel, a little here, a little more there (penalizing capitalism in the process) as THE ONE alluded to instead of using a HATCHET and cutting absurd waste like McCain and Palin intend to do. I’m listening.
sportutegrl – “BTW, I also did a comparison of my local school district budget of 100 million dollars, 7000 students, for a cost of 14K per student. Compare this with the education you receive at the local Catholic school for 4000 per. THE LAST THING WE NEED IS TO EXPAND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL MESS TO PRESCHOOL.”
Nice worke sportutegrl! So here is what we’re faced with; big government = more government jobs. More government jobs = more Democrat voters. It’s that simple. It’s not about the outcomes, the return on investment, the success rates, the achievment. On the contrary, it is about spending $10,000 more per student in government school “administration” to provide an absurdly inferior education compared to the $4000 in private instruction. MORE GOVERNMENT WORKERS = MORE DEMOCRAT VOTERS!
This is why it is almost impossible to talk sense to liberals. A vast majority of them work for the govenrment or have a family system that has sucked at the teet of government for generations. They vote their pocketbook. The facts regarding outcomes or success rates don’t matter in the least to them. Barack Obama will change America at it’s very foundations for the next 100 years by increasing the size and scope of government bureaucracy.
I am from China. My experience tells me that Obama’s policy is very close to socialism policy. This policy will only lead the country poor. He wants to have equal out- come for very one. There is no such thing.
After Communist party takes over China. They took policy to equalize citizen’s income. The manager earned no more 10 -20 dollars than door keeper. There was no productivity. We went out shopping or went to movies during the work hours. Why work hard if can’t make more?
There was very basic heath care for everyone except for the farmers (don’t ask me why). There was no good medicine. The hospital condition was very poor. You may have seen this from third world movies.
Chinese study hard because higher education is the only way to get out farm, get a white color job. (I like to see very one to get higher education if possible) There was/is 0 opportunities. I got free education there. That was 70s. Now, the public middle schools & high schools charge about $2000 – $5000 if your kids fail for the school’s entry testing. Universities are too expensive for 98% of Chinese right now.
Democrat = socialism. All those policy sounds good. You money is my money. It will not work!!! Why ask Obama to ask his followers to contribute their money to the wasteful social program he wants. If you have real PhD, You know what thinking means.
realitycheq- One last “reality check” concerning your “I am a multimillionaire from royalties” statement, that nobody brought up in the long, LONG list of good points concewrning ELITIST post.
Obama’s tax policies will have the EXACT EFFECT of stifling and discouraging entrpreneurs, NEW investments and NEW companies from creating, developing, and bringing to market new technologies and innovations that would “make the world a better place for your children”, and just happen to allow people like you to receive royalties from their work.
Oh…but who care about that! You and your children got yours…NOW you can sooth your liberal conscience with the knowledge that you helped elect a BLACK MAN to be President! Whoopee!
By any chance to you live in Northern California???
Gee, I wonder if Ovomit will put Williams Ayers as the head of his early childhood indoctination program. Earbama is an empty suit, nothing there folks, move along.
I wonder what the FBI will find concerning his recent trip to Iraq and telling the Iraqi’s not to request Troup redrawal, he has just committed treason. He’s a babbling idiot with 300 debate coaches. I wonder if he had answers written on his sleeve. He absolutely makes me sick. He flip flops more than any presidential nominee ever. He’s rude, sticks his nose up at people and has the audacity to think all Americans are as stupid as his idiotic followers. He won’t allow comments on his youtube ads, he’s trying to shut down television stations that run anti-Obama ads, this man is dangerous and I don’t for one minute believe God is going to give this country over to the Devil incarnate.
This man is nasty, dangerous and a man child who has no business even being on the democratic ticket.
I have enjoyed reading this article and postings. While Senator McCain is not perfect the fact that Senator Obama can get as far as he has in the political arena in this country is really scary. This man’s associations-felons, race baiting/hate mongering ministers, terrorists, communist party members et al combined with many of the things he says from “clinging to guns and religion” to most recently waiting for a phone call from Washington to get involved in the financial “crisis” should indicate to any thinking person that he is not a leader. By the way, that phone call didn’t come from his party- it came from the President. He’s never taken on his party, never worked across the aisle and has a record of achievement that is as thin as tissue paper. Oh wait, recently it was posted that he’s been running for President of eighteen months which apparently counts for experience. Actually having a meeting of the committee he chairs is out of the question. He actually made it sound in the debate(glad we finally had one because Senator Obama sure doesn’t want many of them)when challenged on his liberal voting record that “most” of the time he was voting against Bush’s failed policies. Even if that were true, what about the rest of the time? I believe he was trying to make it sound like he’s a moderate. I would also like to point out that this Congress we have since the mid term elections is dominated by liberal Democrats, most of whom are attorneys. They sure know the law, but their leadership is deplorable- you don’t get a single digit approval rating without “working” for it. Now I realize the Republicans got out of control before 2006 and that is disappointing but this replacement crew is a sham. You don’t have to look any further than the financial situation our country currently finds itself in. There is plenty of blame to go around but this housing mess was started by President Clinton pushing the Community Reinvestment Act to provide housing to people that can’t pay for it. It was facilitated by Fannie and Freddie which was presided over mostly by democrats many of whom are now in charge of telling us how to get out of the mess that they created. Franklin Raines got pink slipped for his leadership heading up one of these GSEs but was still able to make 90 million before he left and has been one of Senator Obama’s economic advisors. And some of our legislators are worried about CEO compensation! Those must be some interesting conversations with Mr. Raines. Senator McCain tried to straighten out this mess in 2005 to no avail. Allan Greenspan warned of the pitfalls of this loan setup a couple of years ago- no one in Congress acted. The current head of the Senate Banking committee claims that he didn’t know he had gotten a preferred loan from Countrywide- yet there he is right in the center of the solution. The House Ways and Means Chairman who is in charge of writing tax law doesn’t know how to pay his taxes. Don’t get me going on Barney Frank or Chuck Schumer. My point is these citizens of this country have been in charge along with Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid since January 2007 and have really done nothing except spend more. They sound good but what are they really saying? Leadership- what leadership? What happened to the transparency, pork cleanup and paygo they ran on? How’s that energy policy looking to you? You haven’t even heard the term paygo in over a year much less seen any. Their answer is always to spend more. We spend record amounts on Education and most(not all)of these graduates-well, the ones that do graduate, are completely unprepared to contribute anything to this society. And a job- where’s my entitlements? They don’t want to work they just want to take. You hear JFK’s name brought up a lot- but he misspoke while he was President. It really should have been along the lines of what your country can do for you, NOT what you can do for your country. Somehow he got that backwards. We need some real leadership in this country or we are all going the way of some of the previous civilizations who aren’t around any longer. Most (there’s that word again)of our representatives have worked themselves out of a job and need to go. They are more interested in themselves and the power they have than they are serving us- or maybe we are supposed to serve them. Now there’s an idea. Senator Obama has no business being elected President anymore than most of our elected officials have of keeping their jobs. Big Government Socialism will not work, is not what this country was built on and you should think long and hard about who you vote for in November. Do it or you better “hope” you have any “change” left when these people get done with us.
I think when the upper class gets to pay to high taxes under Obama, they will close shop and move away. So the middle class mid managers and supervisors will become low class unemployed .Last time I checked, I never got a job from low income person.
Christine – You complain about blah, blah, blah. So, say something meaningful instead of criticizing.
realitycheq – You’re always on these boards. You write like a guy. There’s no way a highly educated, older, white woman spends her scarce time on a hostile blogsite. There’s no way she is so harsh and hostile. They bred women better than that back then.
Furthermore, if you have the bucks and knwoledge, why don’t you spend your money yourself and invest in technology, or science, or the future? Set up a college fund. Gather together your colleagues and start a company. This is a Republican tenet: do it yourself. But you don’t have that money, or you wouldn’t be saying all this. You’re a fraud.
It’s interesting that realitycheq’s post got a lot more attention than the original article did. Someone feeling defensive?
Hey Ed,
You are right, Putin is pretty buff so the wrinkly old dude might get a heart attack if they face a confrontation. We all know how he has a major problem containing his anger. He could barely hold a straight face at the debate and I was just waiting for him to burst out. And as far as this Cinderella that he vetted, I can’t even begin to imagine what 4 years will be like with her if anything were to happen to the wrinkly old dude. Will she abolish abortion? Will she control what we can and cannot read? I don’t even want to imagine the list of things that she will come up with.
ALL MY WIFE HAS ASK ME SINCE FRIDAY NIGHT…
WHY HASN’T ANYONE QUESTIONED OBAMA’S COMMENT
ABOUT PRESCHOOL? WELL, I GUESS IT’S BECAUSE
EVERYONE KNOWS HE HAS BEEN BOUGHT OFF BY THE TEACHER’S UNION.
During the first minute of the debate I looked at the folks next to me and remarked that it was a shame that even if McCain won the debate the media was going to say he lost.
After it ended we all were excited that McCain had won.
Of course, all weekend the MSM trilled that he’d lost.
They are trying to systematically demoralize us. Just remember : all the polls indicated Kerry was going to win as well…
Yes, Red Blooded, I get defensive when I recognize an agent provocateur or propagandist. I like to call B.S. whenever I encounter it in large doses.
I believe realitycheq is an out and out fraud who is trying to blow up and article that is possibly detrimental to his cause. I think other people also got that sense right away, too. I have no problem with dissension, but I do have a problem with covert, sneaky, under-handed tactics. (I know, I know, some redundancy there.)
DEAR CONSIDERATE POSTERS:
LET’S PLAY A GAME. It’s called I G N O R E – T H E – T R O L L S.
“Jeff” – NO RESPONSE
“Christine” – NO RESPONSE
“schnargley” – NO RESPNSE
“realitycheq” – NO RESPONSE
FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THIS LIST.
You will note, if you peruse this and a few other recent threads, that these and a few other cohorts have successfully diverted the discussion away from the topic at hand…and not in any way that could vaguely be described as “supplementing” the issue.
IF PJM WON’T DO IT, we can.
It is really a very clear case for your vote.
Vote for Senator Obama if you want a socialist style government with large government (taxpapyer) funded programs.
Vote for McCain if you want independent businesses providing jobs and opportunity with less government interference.
Since I own a business I guess I know which way I must vote.
Obama said middle class a number of times. But remember what he said in S. F. , “Those who live in small towns but have their guns and bibles”. He cares nothing about middle class. Only special interests, and his associates version of America.
Middle class, my dear GRANDFATHER whom passed away 2yrs. ago, always said , this country had poor/middle/rich, before it’s over you’ll see poor/rich, mark my word: he was wise, been through hard times and was truly the back-bone of this country, we have no back-bones any more. The middle class to me is making uder 60,000.00 a yr., trying to pay there bills, feed there families, send their childrens to shool, trying to keep the family together and asking them selves over and over when does this get better?, OBAMA, i don’t know to many people in my life time(64yrs.)that even makes $250,000.00, get off your ass and ask the people, HOW MUCH IS YOUR YEARLY INCOME, you are so out of touch, you have had a free AMERICAN TICKET ON THE AMERICAN TAX PAYERS MONEY, you went to the best collage, you and your wife, you were BLACK, and let’s be honest, didn’t you get help because a bill was pass to help BLACKS get into collage, in touch, you really are a poor exsample of being in touch, you and your wife both, well payed, you as a SEN., she has a pay check that most women don’t have working there asses off to pay for collage, not every WHITE or BLACK could get where you did, out of touch you are, feel for the middle-class i can’t buy this at all, your out for more, more in your own pocket, more to bring that ego of your get even bigger, the famous BLACK LEADER, yes it will be “GOD DAM AMERICA” if you win.
Marina;
I thought the debate was about international policy and national security. Should we or should we not talk with Ahmadinejad? Come on, middle class, show them! Georgia, Russia, Ukraine (does Obama know what Ukraine is, btw? seems like he’s heard the word for the first time in his life) – all the typical and specifical problems of the middle class. And John McCain didn’t mention it? How dares he!
Don’t you see your own hypocrisy?
no gas ?
GOP is still in charge
or DID you forget!
The PUBLIC said mccain lost
46-38
This is pure white supremacy. I didn’t say you are racist. But you have a extreme white supremacist attitude. I don’t care how old you are or Gramps or anybody else. When your Gramps dad was going to work everyday. He worked next to a black man whose wages went to his slave owner. It’s Amazing how you can talk about getting a free ride. The Govt. tries to make up what it stole and gives you your white privilege. With some social programs and therefore successful blacks didn’t earn it. But I guess G.W.Bush and the other 42 presidents earned everything they got by your standard. Go ahead and measure the private and public wealth gained by America by its domestic policies against the money it has spent on social programs(that all Americans get). Be sure to add inflation. I bet you my house we are not even at 10%(or should I not have a house. )Yeah I said it the Racist history of this country which is showing it’s face big time in this election. You think because of your European way of looking at things this land belongs to white people. It doesn’t. But that is your programming. You clearly have a problem with his personal success rather than his policy. If you struggle in life or all whites don’t live as good as some N!ggers do. That’s Definitely not any black persons fault. I can bet that Michelles family Backbone goes back 15 generations. Your family came here for a better life. Your people choose America. So I will tell you like your quick to tell a Mexican. Leave if you don’t like it. I bet I’m outta line huh? People with your views choose a part of the U.S. timeline that is convenient for there argument but the rest means nothing. Or you choose to forget people getting fire hosed for there right to vote in the country they built.
McCain thinks 5 million was the average American Income. Seriously. So who is really out of touch? I think you and McCain.
In response to J.Barrett
Get your history right…there was no slavery in the North….and only 1% of southern whites owned slaves. I believe slavery ended with the 13th amendment in 1863…..you want to see racism? Check out other countries in the world…..give me a break. For that matter my grandfather wasn’t hired for jobs because he was Scottish and that was not that long ago….get over it. As far as I can see people today live in a country where we all have the same rights…we work side by side with all different people PEACEFULLY…for goodness sake take a look around at what is going on in other countries…..you can’t legislate against racism….we will always have people that are racist, but to say this country is racist is ridiculous. God Bless America.
Obama did address the Middle class. McCain didn’t deny he is giving the rich more tax breaks. Obama addressed improving the education of the middle class, where is McCain’s policy regarding education. McCain wants to give 5,000 and say, find your own insurance. Obama wants to at least offer the same insurance the politicians have. McCain wants to privatize social security, NOT Mine!!!!!!!! I worked too long to let wall street put it in their overgreedy pockets.
What debate were you watching? They both used their stump speeches throughout. Those of us who have heard them zillions of times are waiting for more details not more stump retoric
Obama addressed Middle America in the same way he addressed the troops in Germany.
He screwed them both.
Hey Ed,
I see ya working pretty hard there, Mr. redneck, trying to rally up the troops. Are you too afraid to speak on your own?
Senator referred to “mainstreet” many,many times during the debate. He refers to the middle class people, the everyday people as “mainstreet”. How could the so called “in touch” Obama not know this? Oh, thats’ right, his teleprompter was absent from the debate.
McCain was clearly the adult at the podium, very Presidential, and ready to lead. The tax cuts, including cutting the capital gains tax, will grow this economy back in no time. Obama needs to withdraw, actually work out there doing something and come back in 8 years.
So, I’ve been reading tons of liberal and conservative blogs, tons of MSM, just tons of information both fact-based and opinion-based. I have both liberal and conservative friends and coworkers. Here are some general trends I have found:
Conservative blogs are full of comments about liberals being all emotion-driven and brainwashed by Obama’s whatever-it-is-that-makes-him-popular. Liberal blogs are full of reasoned argument, references to source material, and specific issue oriented data. In short, conservative blogs are far more opinion/emotion-based and usually short on facts and references to original sources. They fail in exactly the ways they accuse liberals of failing, and do so far more often.
Conservative blogs tend to be vehement about not wanting their taxes raised and not wanting Democrats to decide how they will spend their tax money. This list of posts is a typical example of that. In an ironic lack of self-awareness, there is no mention of the fact that Republican officials just proposed spending $7BILLION of taxpayers’ money on a bailout that by all accounts favors the very same people at the root of the financial crisis, that the original Republican proposal left no room for oversight of any kind, and that the whole bailout is very unlikely to solve the crisis even if it does pass. Not to mention that economists of both political stripes point to deregulation as a prime cause of the mess. Deregulation = absence of government oversight. Has less government worked out better for the average American in the case of industry oversight? Clearly not for the taxpayers who paid for the S&L bailout (see McCain + Keating 5), not for the taxpayers who would have to fund the Lords of Finance if the bailout passes, and not for the deregulated energy workers that lost everything when Enron crashed and burned. I’d list some bad liberal examples here to balance this out, but there aren’t really any that are even close.
Conservative blogs are most definitely heavy on accusing Democrats of wanting to “socialize” America, that more government is bad for everyone, that liberals are all must be “sucking at the big government teat” and again conservative blogs seem to be unaware that the government led by Republicans over the past several administrations has increased spending and deficits by gigantic proportions, in essence doing exactly what conservatives claim to despise. This makes no sense no matter how you parse it. Socialism is used as a fear trigger word all the time. Here’s a challenge for you: look up the definitions for both socialism and fascism, and post your thoughts about which seems closer to current reality in this country.
Strangely, both conservative and liberal blogs accuse MSM as being the tool of the other side. The logical arguments, however, follow the money. Which individuals and corporations own (control) most of the Main Stream Media? Certainly not liberals. Bias is there, but it goes both ways and really MSM isn’t totally the tool of any one ideology, at least not quite yet.
Liberal blogs are definitely snooty and elitist when compared to Conservative blogs. Liberals use well-reasoned logic to explain why Conservatives are idiots, whereas Conservatives use less-reasoned but more gut-feeling to explain why Liberals are idiots. Neither approach is helpful to moving this country forward.
Liberals ignore the dangers of Islamic extremist thought and practice. Conservatives ignore the dangers of Christian extremist thought and practice. Both are hypocritical.
In closing, liberals/Democrats seem to be the lesser of two evils. But hey, “when you choose the lesser of two evils, you’re still choosing evil.” Both sides need to snap out of it and realize there is no one of these 2 parties/ideologies that is the “correct” one. We need a lot more than either to stay safe, relevant, respectable and dignified in these times and in the future.
“dcm” 9:03pm,
Your articulate-yet-faulty-logic post can be summed up by, “Eat the rich! Republicans are Fat Cats!”
If you wish to recommend that readers here “follow the money” regarding the “bailout,” I suggest you read the following:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mzk4MmVkNzA1NGQ2NGRkZjQ2YjNmYjdlODZkMmQ4N2I=
Excerpt:
“ACORN recognized very early the opportunity presented by the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977. As Stanley Kurtz has reported, ACORN proudly touted “affirmative action” lending and pressured banks to make subprime loans. Madeline Talbott, a Chicago ACORN leader, boasted of “dragging banks kicking and screaming” into dubious loans.
ACORN attracted Barack Obama in his youthful community organizing days. Madeline Talbott hired him to train her staff — the very people who would later descend on Chicago’s banks as CRA shakedown artists. The Democratic nominee later funneled money to the group through the Woods Fund, on whose board he sat, and through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, ditto. Obama was not just sympathetic — he was an ACORN fellow traveler.
Now you could make the case that before 2008, well-intentioned people were simply unaware of what their agitation on behalf of non-credit-worthy borrowers could lead to. But now? With the whole financial world and possibly the world economy trembling and cracking like a cement building in an earthquake, Democrats continue to try to fund their friends at ACORN? And, unashamed, they then trot out to the TV cameras to declare “the party is over” for Wall Street (Nancy Pelosi)? The party should be over for the Democrats who brought us to this pass. If Obama wins, it means hiring an arsonist to fight a fire.”
I repeat:
Here’s a challenge for you: look up the definitions for both socialism and fascism, and post your thoughts about which seems closer to current reality in this country.
Ed,
Also, I was recommending that readers here “follow the money” regarding who controls MSM. But yes, the bailout too, good idea there as well. Anything really. Because as we all know “money talks…” This just supports my arguments about greed/power/influence as a general human problem. It’s time to rise above that if we wish for any progress as a great society.
Ed Wallis, Thanks for your reply.
I would bet there are a lot of influences that could be identified with the development of the sub-prime mortgage based credit crunch that is a core element of the current crisis. I would bet neither you nor I, probably no one, can trace the full weave of connections and causes, influences motivated by greed or misplaced idealism.
But it is stretching a bit to try to pin it on ACORN and by association, Obama. Sure, ACORN promoted loans for low-income urban minorities, but according to Bush, that’s just working toward a goal that he strongly supported: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050714-4.html
see paragraphs 27-28
See, my post isn’t summed up by “Eat the rich!” You know as well as I that greed is not based on political party affiliation. My point is summed up by “look at the big picture” and “don’t be a ranting ideologue” and mainly that We, The People need to THINK HARDER about this country and it’s policies. Gut instinct is fine. Emotion based decision making is reality. But complex systems are not comprehensible without applied brain power and broad vision. Our government and economy are the most complex social systems on Earth.
It is a broad characteristic of conservatives/republicans to bash and mock “effete intellectual elitist snobbery,” but do you really want a complex system managed without intellectual elitism? Strong thinkers are needed. Look up the definition of “elite” – it’s not a bad thing. Does anyone mock the Rangers or Seals for being an “elite” fighting force? Not to their faces, I bet!
Before anyone assumes I’m a ranting liberal ideologue myself, I’m not a supporter of unlimited social welfare, or eliminating free market principles in favor of government regulation. I promote balance, sorely needed as our country swings between extremes of so-called conservative and liberal views.
Another way of making my point: Obama and McCain both support offshore drilling and link it to economic relief for “people at the pump.” However, any halfway serious investigation of the economics of this concept quickly reveals it’s a red herring – a distraction. It’s a thimble-full in a swimming pool, insignificant in the scope of US demand and consumption. Not to mention the infrastructure, extraction and distribution issues that stand between “drill here drill now” and “$4 per gallon this week.”
See, complex issues. No help from anyone who isn’t willing to think harder about them. Now, most Americans aren’t willing. Who has time? It’s always the case that there are “elitist thinkers” and “the general populace.” Sure, Obama may be an elitist intellectual but that doesn’t make him immune from self-interest or corporate influence. He’s not “The One” (have you actually seen the use of that term by actual liberals? Probably, but I don’t know anyone who thinks that).
So, to bring it all around to the top of this post – Obama Didn’t Address Middle America in the Debate. Well, sure! He’s an intellectual. Most people aren’t. It takes a rare individual that can be so AND be in tune with the needs and concerns of Middle America – the general populace.
The general populace needs to bite the bullet and buckle down and think harder and generally raise standards of discourse. The current political ads should make us all sick, they are so low brow. The ones who do think need to stop applying their skills to deceit through playing on emotion and fear, misdirection and blame. That’s only going to drag us down further!
I mean, c’mon, you trying to say ACORN is the root cause of our country’s financial quagmire? Get real.
dcm – Obama does NOT support offshore drilling! He has grudgingly acknowledged that he may have to compromise on this to get the other technologies going.
The oil out there is NOT a thimbleful. There’s an estimated 100 Billion barrels of oil off AK in the arctic. The last surveys of ANWR showed some 13 Billion barrels, but that was done in the 70′s with old tech! Same goes for offshore of the continental U.S. The oil companies say they can start tapping the stuff offshore within months in the areas where they’re already drilling and have the infrastructure. Developing new areas won’t take 10 years… like it used to. The government uses old info to make their calculations, because of the drilling ban making new info unnecessary.
Yes, I want intellectuals in on the dissection of the problems (guys like me), but I also want some non-intellectuals in on the decision process. Too often the intellectuals get too far from what really works. It’s called ivory-tower thinking, and it’s to be guarded against.
Besides, you have to be able to SELL the solution to the public. Guys like me are terrible at talking to average Joes. So, what I want is someone who’s bright enough to get it, but not so bright as to be unable to communicate it to “Joe”. That said, I care first about the guy’s values before his other qualifications. I don’t want a smart scumbag.
Hi Marc,
I agree “support” may have been too positive a word for Obama’s position on offshore oil drilling. Maybe he’s just willing to compromise to improve his political position. I’m really not sure about the details of that.
So, where do you get your data? Numbers I can find all say that 100B barrels is for ALL the arctic, and only about 1/3 of that is around Alaska. Most sources say 26-27B MAY BE off Alaska. Here are a few sources:
http://www.mms.gov/alaska/lease/hlease/PLANMAP.HTM
http://www.mms.gov/alaska/re/reports/rereport.htm
http://www.mms.gov/alaska/re/about/refocus.htm
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_sum_crdsnd_adc_mbbl_m.htm
http://www.aspo-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=398&Itemid=91
…
and search for this excellent PDF on mms.gov:
“Assessment of Undiscovered Technically Recoverable Oil and Gas Resources of the Nation’s Outer Continental Shelf, 2006″ Dude – it even has a “bar and whiskers” type graph! figure 5. Gotta love those.
Lower 48:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html
Are you saying all these sources are “old” even with current dates? Are you in the oil industry that you have different info? My brother used to work on offshore rigs in the far east and in S. America for NL/Baroid.
Even if we got ALL 100B barrels and exported NONE, it is maybe 8 years worth of oil (current consumption is 7.6B barrels annually for U.S., and rising). Figure we only get Alaska’s 26B barrels and keep it all for ourselves (unlikely), how many years of consumption does that benefit us? 2? 3 at most? Do you consider it worth any environmental impact to prolong the agony of oil dependence for a few more years? Why not spend the exploration/extraction/production/distribution dollars on renewables with potential for growth instead of on a dead-end fossil fuel?
So, it’s really not significant in the big picture. And almost certainly won’t make any difference at the gas pump. Or in our dependence on imports. Like I said – it’s a distraction!
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5921494&page=1 is one of MANY articles in the MSM.
I know this is getting way off the thread of the original post, but oh well.
And finally: We do need all stakeholders in on the decision process, absolutely correct. Multiple viewpoints and opinions. I’m one of those folks who can take technical abstracts and break ‘em down for Joe Six Pack and his neighbor Jane Nickel Bag. I used to have that for a job, in fact, and it still comes in handy as I provide technology training to average end-users.
Down With Smart Scumbags!
dcm – Good references. I scanned through them The consistency I see with the government numbers, is that they start at some basepoint and don’t really seem to change much. That goes to my contention. The things I’ve seen in various articles suggest that all these numbers are based on estimates done last before the drilling ban in ’98. Sorry that I didn’t keep references for you. I was just reading for myself… just general interest for understanding purposes. So, I could be all wet on this.
One article you listed from ’03 had estimated numbers for the foreseeable future with technology development. That one had the most credibility to me. It didn’t mention Arctic sources, just offshore estimates. According to it, mean estimate is about 89.5 bbl. Interestingly, it showed a marked increase from the ’01 numbers in the same article.
You use a figure of 7.68 bbl/yr and rising. Because of the “rising” part, you change the value of deposits regarding how long they’d last. So, 26 bbl in AK only lasts 2-3 yrs. I find that premise false. P&Q shows that price affects demand. We’ve seen that these past few months. American consumption has decreased due to price, so oil has come down in price as demand versus production has improved.
Looking through that stuff doesn’t seem to give the underlying data of whence they obtained the numbers, i.e., surveyed when. The AEO2007 is a case in point. It’s the government prediction of reserves and how long it’d take to develop them. These are the numbers Dems use to discredit drilling.
However, these are the same numbers I’ve seen for years. They seem to have never changed, except to go down based on production. This is what I mean about old numbers. I really don’t think the government went out of its way to get a new base of numbers. That would’ve required new surveys… in the face of drilling bans. It looks wipped together. “Hey, Sam, do a quick spreadsheet for Congress, wouldja?”
The development timeframe is based on government doing nothing to lift the moratoria early. For example, they’ll all expire by 2012, then production can begin no sooner than 2017. What?!? We can’t prepare ahead of time? Uh, no. Oil companies can’t trust Congress not to screw them by extending the moratoria. That’s true now. Some bans have expired, but companies haven’t just rushed out to drill, because they’re waiting on the election results. Also, they may need incentives.
Definitive action by the new Congress can change things drastically. The bans are ridiculous to be maintaining. These are artificial limits. They need premanent lifting.
The oil companies have stated publicly in recent months that they can expand production in short order in the areas where they already have infrastructure. Other places will take longer.
If we combine new production with development of new technologies (clean coal, shale oil, nuclear, renewables), the drilling will act as a fine bridge to get us to the future. Not drilling is unacceptable. The effect of doing all this development, on our economy, and its ability to rein in the power of the foreign oil producers, is simply inestimable.
But, I’m no expert. So, despite my really high IQ, what do I know? Nice yakkin’ atcha.
Right on Marc. The data only explains so much. I guess I have to agree we need a bridge, that non-petroleum based energy won’t be ready to replace everything anytime soon enough. Unfortunately, NOTHING is as versatile as oil at this point – portable, high btu-per-weight/volume, etc. Interesting times we live in, gotta say that! Have a good one.