Obama at Portsmouth: ‘Civil Rights’ for the Sick
In his Portsmouth town hall meeting President Obama continued his recent theme of flogging insurance companies as the villains of our current health care system. He noted, for example, that a “recent report actually shows that in the past three years over 12 million Americans were discriminated against by insurance companies because of a preexisting condition.” He repeated that point with emphasis:
And insurance companies will continue to profit by discriminating against people for the simple crime of being sick.
President Obama’s belief that insurance companies are guilty of discrimination when they refuse coverage to applicants with preexisting conditions tells us a great deal about his view of what ails the American economy, and it is a much more radical view than he has admitted, at least recently.
This charge of insurance company discrimination is intended, no doubt, to make health care reform — now presented as merely health insurance reform — seem like simply another anti-discrimination law, a civil rights law for the sick. “No one holds these companies accountable for these practices,” the president said, but his reform will hold them accountable because allowing that “discrimination” to continue is “not a future I want for my children. It’s not a future that I want for the United States of America.”
To say, as the president did, that “no one in America should go broke because they get sick” is to say that having health insurance is a civil right. Not only does the president think of his health care health insurance reform as at least in part a civil rights measure, but it is important to realize that what he means by civil rights is both far broader and deeper than what most of us think of when we think of civil rights enforcement — removing artificial barriers based on race, sex, or ethnicity that block equal opportunity.
In a piece on PJ Media last week I argued that President Obama views civil rights not as protections for individuals against racially discriminatory treatment, but as a lever to produce fundamental economic redistribution. He believes, I argued, that the United States continues to be plagued by pervasive “structural inequality,” and that getting rid of it “requires the eradication of all manifestations of ‘inequality,’ whether or not the inequality was caused by discriminatory barriers.” Moreover, he stated in his speech to the NAACP convention on July 16, the most imposing “barrier” to equality today is not discrimination in the traditional sense but the very nature and structure of the American economy.
“Our task of reducing these structural inequalities,” he said, “has been made more difficult by the state, and structure, of the broader economy; an economy fueled by a cycle of boom and bust; an economy built not on a rock, but sand.”
The president has said many times that reforming health “insurance” is the linchpin of his effort to transform the economy, and he repeated that argument in Portsmouth:
Because even before this recession hit, we had an economy that was working pretty well for the wealthiest Americans. It was working pretty well for Wall Street bankers. It was working pretty well for big corporations, but it wasn’t working so well for everybody else. It was an economy of bubbles and busts. And we can’t go back to that kind of economy. If we want this country to succeed in the 21st century and if we want our children to succeed in the 21st century, then we’re going to have to take the steps necessary to lay a new foundation for economic growth. We need to build an economy that works for everybody and not just some people.
Now, health insurance reform is one of those pillars that we need to build up that new foundation.
So employer-provided private insurance is just one more bit of “structural inequality” to eradicate. And, despite the president’s assertion in Portsmouth that “I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter,” he has in fact said so, and more than once. “If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system,” he told a town hall meeting in New Mexico as recently as last August. And he was even more explicit in 2003, complete with road map:
I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. … A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.
A Wall Street Journal editorial has just pointed out that insurance rates in the five states that prohibit what President Obama calls “discrimination” against people with preexisting conditions is considerably higher than in all the states that don’t, and that “ObamaCare would impose New York-type rates nationwide.” Forcing higher rates on private insurers while simultaneously offering a subsidized “public option” that could offer lower rates would eventually fulfill Obama’s dream of doing away with private health insurance and having a single-payer system.
In short, President Obama’s health care vision — prohibiting private insurer “discrimination” — is of a piece with his civil rights vision of eradicating all “structural inequalities.” And both are manifestations of his overarching goal of replacing “boom and bust” capitalism, “built on sand,” with a system that would promote a massive redistribution of wealth.
Indeed, in a candid interview on WBEZ, a public radio station in Chicago, on January 18, 2001, then state senator and Chicago law professor Obama was critical of the civil rights movement for relying too heavily on the courts because the Constitution, “at least as it’s been interpreted” by the Supreme Court, “never entered into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.” The audio of that interview can be found here and here (the video has been removed from YouTube), and the following relevant passage was quoted here:
You know, if you look at the victories and failures of the civil-rights movement, and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at a lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it, I’d be okay, but the Supreme Court never entered into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.
And uh, to that extent, as radical as I think people tried to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution — at least as it’s been interpreted, and Warren Court interpreted it in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: [It] says what the states can’t do to you, says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.
And that hasn’t shifted, and one of the, I think, the tragedies of the civil-rights movement was because the civil-rights movement became so court-focused, uh, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change. And in some ways we still suffer from that.
Now President Obama is attempting to correct “the tragedies of the civil rights movement,” to expand dramatically “what the federal government or the state government must do” for their citizen subjects through “political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change.”
And who knows. Another Supreme Court appointment or two and the Court itself may lose its hang-up on “formal rights” and join the Obama revolution by forthrightly entering “into the issues of redistribution of wealth.”






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…and the false facade of “post-racial candidate” keeps slipping even further.
Bro-o-ther. This loser really can’t see anything in other that Leftist cliches.
When Obama was elected to the Illinois legislature, he was able to get his wife a do nothing job for 300K in the health care industry. If he succeeds in reforming the whole industry into the Orwellian nightmare that is currently in the works, then he’ll be able to get 300K jobs for the wives of his thousands closest friends.
Obama is discriminating against the Free Market:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/lets_go_with_that_analogy.html
Do you really believe that your vile, racist attacks on our new Leader will have any effect? In case you didn’t notice, we had an election last November. We won, you lost, and you will never get another chance.
President Obama rules this country now. Universal health care and the other parts of the Progressive agenda are “done deals”.
You racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic white males have oppressed women and people of color long enough. Your time has passed.
Just shut up and go away.
Does Obama’s remarks include a reference to “mental health” care provisions for the mainstream media? Of course, most folks involved with treating sociopaths believe the condition is untreatable.
First, thank you for quoting Obama (YouTube) verbatim, the “uhs” and “I thinks” undercut his attempt to pass himself off as a law professor instead of the law lecturer he was.
Ah, civil rights–what an overused phrase by someone who has never stuck his neck out for anybody except himself. And there is nothing civil about his attack on people who are worried the ObamaCare dream is nothing but a nightmare.
The town hall meetings–the fake ones (Obama) and the real ones (just about everyone else)–have been very illuminating. We have seen Sheila Jackson Lee on the phone, John Dingell talking about the days of the KKK in a subsequent interview–if there is a “WTF Hall of Fame” I nominate both of these for consideration.
The opposition to more government run health care is pretty clear. It will be a fascinating Fall to see who blinks. Meanwhile, I’m keeping notes on who is not listening to their constituents and for that reason alone, we voter need to set them free to move on to their next career.
For over two and one half years straight now we’ve listened to this man’s cynical split second analysis of everything and everyone else. He has the answer no matter what the subject is, who asks it; even if no one says anything or doesn’t want his input.
His forte has been advancing himself at the expense of everyone around him; beginning with his own mother and running the gamut of feel sorry for me extreme racism to outright hatred of America, white people and Jews back and forth until it is nauseating. On his own the man has accomplished nothing. To this day he has yet to put an honest day’s work forth in the Whitehouse as the President.
When it comes to the world around him and the country he supposedly serves Obama has risen to the top with a vicious alligator mouth. But, when it comes to producing he has a hummingbird rear end; which is why his kingdom is now falling apart in front of God and the world.
History will not be kind to Obama; nor those who continue to defend him. For his own abuse of racism alone he will deserve every hit that he takes plus a hundred fold by ten thousand times more.
Barack Obama is following in the non-violent radical tradition of Martin Luther King, Jr. The assassinated civil rights leader also advocated wealth redistribution and a benevolent dictatorship by elites. Sadly, MLK was rarely ever taken to task for his radicalism after his murder. He was then considered an untouchable martyr. It was deemed important to hide the truth from the American people—even by many well-meaning conservatives. We have been tacitly told to ignore the radical agenda of minority intellectuals as long as they did not advocate violence. This naive attitude has resulted in the domination of our culture and intellectual institutions by left-wing extremists like Barack Obama and Henry Louis Gates Jr. And yes, I am describing our current president as an extremist. It is long overdue. We can no longer afford to pretend otherwise. Obama may not currently be calling for the violent overthrow of the United States. Nevertheless, he is minimally advocating a Communist-lite society.
A number of readers may be somewhat stunned by my severe criticism of Martin Luther King, Jr. Thankfully, they do not have to take my word for anything. The heck with what I have to say. One should instead read King’s own words. I strongly urge everyone to obtain a copy of the very easily available, The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr., edited by Clayborne Carson. It’s usually a real mind blower for those previously deceived by the widespread deceitful pro-King propaganda.
“The president has said many times that reforming health “insurance” is the linchpin of his effort to transform the economy”
And he’s exactly right.
Imagine putting an extra $300 a month into the paycheck of every single American. For the math challenged that’s $1,200 a moth for a family of 4.
That’s how much more we spend on health care than every other country in the world. For the same level of care.
And that doesn’t even take into account the millions who are stuck in a dead end job they don’t dare leave because they are uninsurable.
What rights are we willing to give up in order to obtain these new rights?
“Four legs good, Two legs bad.”
Too late! Investor’s Business Daily has already won the gold for “Most Far-Fetched, Pathetic Argument against Public Health Care” by proving that Stephen Hawking would have died if he’d had to rely on Britain’s public health service. Hawking, of course, is alive and well and sent a clear message praising the wonderful care he’s had all his life under British public health care.
But keep trying, Mr. Rosenthal. Great comedy takes practice, and you can’t expect to hit it out of the park like those old pros at IBD.
I believe this article is very insightful. I can’t wait to hear (the child) moho and his lunatic friends reaction. I bet it will be quite entertaining.
“…but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.”
This statement by Obama demonstrates his complete lack of understanding of our Constitution and the role it plays as the foundation of our society. It was designed specifically to place limits on the scope and reach of government into our lives. It was never designed to outline “what the government can do.”
Obama laments the fact that the Court never explored the redistribution of wealth. There is a very good reason for this reluctance.
It is not the government’s job.
We have seen Obama on a recording clearly stating that he wants a single payer system. Now he openly states that he does not. Was he lying then, or now?
“[It] says what the states can’t do to you, says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.”
Sadly, Obama must have completely missed the point on one of the major ideas behind the founding of this nation. Certainly representation was one of the ideas, but the other major principle was protection FROM the government.
A major problem with the US today is the sense of entitlement — and this is represented in the sense that the government is here to care for our every need. Wrong. Life is not fair, true, but it can be a whole lot better if you take responsibility for yourself and your actions.
Obama is a stranger in a strange (to him) land. He has no understanding of America.
“a “recent report actually shows that in the past three years over 12 million Americans were discriminated against by insurance companies because of a preexisting condition.”
Sounds like the writer wants to continue being ‘discriminated’ for pre-existing conditions.
Like if you cannot insure your home if you had a kitchen fire before.
Insurance companies are not to protect people’s needs. They take your money for years with no accidents or sickness, then you move and need insurance and the rates go sky high.
Biggest scam in the world. If they were serious, they should be able to cover any disaster as they come along. It’s almost like a Ponzi scheme. Except that it’s legal. Again, it’s our legislators fault.
Redefining words like freedom and rights have been a leftist specialty since Karl Marx.
Obamas health care plan will work and the insurance companies will lose big profits when it goes thru. Thats what all this is about. The GOP have always been for big business and that would include the insurance companies that provide health care. Thats why the GOP whenever talking to their constituents about Obamas health care plan have lied about provisions in the plan….and slowly but surely this fact becomes clearer everyday this document is scrutinized more & more. If what Obama proposes is so bad why would the GOP have to lie about provisions that dont exist? They lie because such a plan would benefit the middle class ( who have been beaten to death by the GOP & Dubya) and threaten the profit margin of health care insurance companies. In order to compete with a govt health insurance plan these companies would have to drop the cost of their coverage NOT raise it! THINK! If there are 2 gas stations that are located across the street from one another and ones gas is 20 cents a gallon cheaper than the other wouldnt everyone go to the gas station with the cheaper rate. The gas station with the higher priced gasoline would have to reduce its price if it doesnt want to go out of business. Simple 1st grade arithmetic. The more the GOP complain the better Obamas health care plan looks. Me thinks doth protest to much
Could Obama be using some scare tactics to frighten the populous? Funny how he never brings up tort-reform during his talks. Either Obama doesn’t understand what that means or he owes too many favors to the trial lawyers. Hmmm…. wonder which one it is?
If Obama really gave a damn about the US he would just have Pelosi write some simple legislation that would force the insurers to take out their pre-existing clauses. It would really be that simple. But no, he’s got a much bigger agenda. That’s why he’s in such a HURRY to get this through. the longer it’s out there for all to see, the more we actually see what’s in it and which interest groups will (once again) get a kickback from this administration.
Col. obama is the little boy playing dress-up businessman again, when he displays his ignorance about being in business.
It doesn’t exactly take a genius to understand that successful businesses always evaluate and choose what constitutes acceptable risks.
Some insurance companies will accept pre-existing conditions. And the premiums will reflect the risk they are accepting. Gee, that’s mysterious.
You will pay a higher premium for life insurance if you go skydiving once a month than those who don’t. That’s not discrimination. That’s good business practice.
One of the childish side effects he’s hoping for is to create yet another “victim class” where A WHOLE BUNCH OF MISERABLE NEW VICTIMS OF DISCRIMINATION HAVE BEEN SELF-IDENTIFIED!!! Yahoo!!! When’s Al Sharpton coming to town to lead us and feed us?????
Idiot.
Editor: your instructions are violated vociferously by #4 with ad-hominem hateful attacks with no argument aparent.
If she were a right winger you would delete it, wouldn’t you?
But because she’s a left-winger you’re AFRAID to delete it.
That’s why they always win, don’t you see?
TO: John Rosenberg, et al.
RE: Well….
….this is no surprise. He’s a liar. Indeed. He’s a more egregious liar than Bill Clinton was/is.
How can I say that?
Because HIS lies are DEADLY!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth is coming out....]
Well, what do you expect from someone who says that
words have meanings, but the meanings words have are what I want them to be, regardless of convention.
That is one of the earliest signs of the current occupant of the Oval Office.
TO: All
RE: By the Way….
…these people….these ‘progressives’ are not what they claim.
Indeed. In my recent readings, I’m seeing strong parallels between their activities today and those of another political movement from the 20th Century. Very STRONG parallels on the tools they use and the fools they use.
In truth, these so-called ‘progressives’ are nothing more than latter-day Bolsheviks. You know. The people who overthrew the democratic interim government of Russia after the Czar abdicated, murdered the Czar and his entire family—including the children, and gave the Russians 70 years of misery ruled over by the political elites of the Communist Party.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Mr. Rosenberg writes: “He[Obama] noted, for example, that a “recent report actually shows that in the past three years over 12 million Americans were discriminated against by insurance companies because of a preexisting condition.””
Well, easy for Obama to say. What he forgets is how many Americans tried to get home insurance on their house after it burned down. And what about those drivers who tried to get insurance on their car after they had wrecked it in an accident. I tell you, those insurance companies are cruel, no doubt about it. Those plain ordinary Americans who own and work at insurance companies are just evil, if you believe the Obama BS anyway. Oh and those doctors who have the audacity of hope that they may be paid for a surgery, why the idea.
4. Yes We Did wrote:
Do you really believe that your vile, racist attacks
Peter writes: And already the libtard racist accusations begin.
Hey, Libtards, how then do you explain that we turned down this same package of cr@p when it was presented to us by a white guy in 1993 also?
I’m sorry if the truth offends you. I misjudged you.
Dont worry about health insurance. Under single-payer rationing will kick in very quickly indeed creating a huge market for supplemental insurance over the very basic no frills geovenment creation.
Stephen Hawkin has survived because of his genius in physics and contributions to the world of science. Yes, he has been taken care of under the British health care system and for the good reasons I have pointed out. In any system, the brilliant who distinguish themselves will always receive special treatment.
Whether fair or not is debatable.
In Soviet Russia, scientists, researchers, high ranking members of the party and others deemed deserving of the best were afforded it without consideration of the masses. I do not accuse Stephen Hawkin of being an elitist but the recipient of special priviledge because of his status as a physicist.
Another point is that when Stephen Hawkin was diagnosed with his illness, the British health care system was not in the pathetic shape it is today.
When long established socialist governments are starting to turn away from them, what does that tell us?
In a piece on Pajamas Media last week I argued that President Obama views civil rights not as protections for individuals against racially discriminatory treatment, but as a lever to produce fundamental economic redistribution.
The thesis that Obama operates, in general and in all of his administration’s recent moves, from his personal, highly subjective notion of addressing “structural inequality” seems right on.
Très Marxist thinking. (did I mention the structural inequality that absolutely underpins every aspect of life in communist countries ?)
“We need to build an economy that works for everybody and not just some people.” (BO)
Mr. Obama ignores data & statistics showing improvement in living standards across the board for all economic groups in recent decades.
Factual information wouldn’t fit with his narrative, and Obama is hellbent on imposing the narrative.
It’s the mark of a very narrow mind.
(for the record, I think people who get out there and work hard deserve a higher standard of living than PJM posters, sitting at home, hands out, completely ignoring rational arguments that don’t fit the narrative, waiting for their government cheques to arrive in the mail
)
I second #22 Pelaut.
Obama is definitely a stealth communist. The interesting thing is that people caught on quickly. An analogy might be Sept 11. The stimulus and cap & trade bills are like the planes hitting the two world trade center towers. Healthcare is like United flight #93. People have figured out what is going on and self organized against it.
Any liberal that starts their argument with “The President said…” surely must know by now that they will be laughed at.
President Obama has said a LOT of things, none of which has come true or shown to have merit.
When will a liberal learn that it’s what a President DOES that counts. Such a gullible lot.
My knowledge of the war between the insurance industry and the medical industry began when in my late twenties to early thirties we would get refusals to pay for ‘well baby’ shots that the law required but were for disease prevention. Then we began to get notices after seeing the doctor or dentist, that the bill was not a customary ‘charge’ and we were liable for the balance, or the insurance company did not deem it a necessary procedure. When we asked for a list of doctors and dentists that charged what was ‘customary’. We were told that that information was not available.
This went on for a number of years, being caught between both industries, one attempting to reduce costs, the other wanting to keep costs higher. Neither group came out victors but they seemed to come to an uneasy truce. Patients (customers) settled into the new uneasy truce, feeling a little edgy, feeling a little stretched out, beat up, and yes even a little suspicious of both the insurance and medical industry’s motives.
The medical industry responded to the demands of the insurance industry by setting up more of an assembly line practice with dentists jumping from one patient to another, while one mouth was getting numb, another could get a filling. Or off site hospital facilities could schedule numerous patients getting the same procedure one after another. The patients seemed OK with this since less of their income went toward the doctor, dentist and insurance premiums, and more toward other expenses, leisure activities, or savings and investments. The list of participating doctors and dentist grew so that the choice of which doctor or dentist to see became less restrictive so therefore the care became better.
Now in all this was a group of people who were uninsured or undesirable, some because their work and they could not afford insurance, or they did not want it, or they had conditions that the insurance company did not want to gamble on. They are private companies after all, and they are betting that they will collect more money from citizens than they will have to pay out. Those with ‘conditions’ are already in the pay out camp so they are already high ‘risks’ and a certain loss for the company.
Then along came the advocacy groups who noticed that the uninsured were paying two, three, four, or five and above times the money for the same procedures than the privately insured or government insured patients were. Since so many people are living on medication, the high cost of medicine became a cause for concern and advocacy groups took notice of this also. People also began to learn that on many of the boards both private and government were doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals who could with the stroke of a pen deny or approve procedures for patients. Some of these denials were for procedures that were the last hope that patients had.
Here we are today with an uneasy truce between two industries that could at any moment break into another fight, and the government looking for a solution that many think will probably cause more problems than it fixes, And then we have the citizens caught in the middle, scared to death that the money they make and work so hard for will go toward more waste more corruption and industries that they believe use them like a hunk of rope in a tug of war game.
I wish I knew the answer, but only seem to see the problems. I don’t think forcing everybody to buy insurance will work, because some people barely make enough money to pay for their food and shelter. I think the government is trying to put them in a pool of people so that they can begin to bargain for costs like the insurance companies do. This will probably be another burden on the tax payers, but I don’t know any other way around it. My thoughts are colored somewhat by my experience with the medical industry when my uninsured son was injured, and my witnessing an elderly man collapse, then struggle to get up after someone said they were calling an ambulance, and he said no I can’t afford it. That didn’t seem right.
Re #32 Steve: Great analogy! I think that we are fighting for the very soul of the USA. It’s now make or break time. If the liberals get away with this, it’s only downhill from here.
President Obama rules this country now. (#4)
Actually, he serves this country now.
But, apparently, you (nor he) has ever actually read the Constitution.
“…we would get refusals to pay for ‘well baby’ shots that the law required but were for disease prevention.”
You are unwittingly part of the problem. Baby shots should be your own responsibility—and not that of the insurance company. Economist Arnold Kling compares this to a car insurer paying for your oil changes, wiper blades, and new tires. I am convinced that high deductibles are mandatory. We should only be using health insurance for very expensive procedures.
34. Lynn
Nice try, Lynn. I suppose you work at SEIU, MoveOn, or one of the many other Pro-Obama propaganda mills. Your transparent claim that you are speaking for all Americans and your use of the single person sob-story to try to defend the indefensible give you away.
“They are trying to save my life, but, sob sob, I can’t afford to stay alive. I don’t have Medicare, I don’t have Medicaid, I don’t have Social Security, I can’t, sob sob, buy a car ’cause I have no clunker to trade, sob, in. If I had a car I could drive to the ER. But I have no, sob, money to buy gas.”
Pull the other one. Who do you think you are dealing with here.
As long as we have chronic welfare as a “lifestyle” choice, we will get people like Obama.
People did not want to look past Obama’s color and party. If they had they would have seen who he is. You do not kick around with the Wright’s, Ayers etc of the world and come out untainted to the socialist way.
It is a tribute to the uninformed , #4, that is currently our problem. He serves us..not rules us…and he’s not doing a really good job..
Obama promotes the leftist doctrine that all should share equally in the nation’s wealth…..whether you work and pay taxes, or lay around and expect others to contribute your share….whether you make good choices and succeed, or make bad choices and end up in prison….whether you stay in school and better yourself, or drop out and join a gang (or get pregnant)….whether you are an American citizen, or a leeching illegal alien.
It is time to preach individual responsibility….not dependency. Life is not fair, so get over it. Obama (the taxpayer) is not going to make your rent or buy you a car, so get off your ass. No one is responsible for your success (or failure) but YOU! No job?….offer to work for free to gain experience. Dropped out of school?….get a GED and don’t stop there. America and private business need people who can read and write English, perform mathematical calculations, think critically and who show up on Monday morning….EVERY Monday morning. So quit blaming someone else for the bad decisions you made, and quit expecting that someone else should pay for your food, rent or healthcare. Grow up, America!
President Obama’s understanding of economic principles: “an economy built not on a rock, but sand.” It says it all. The search for rock-hard foundations is a dream of the rigid personality. There is NO SUCH THING in complex adaptive systems like economies, people, biological systems, etc. Such searches in the past have led to the deaths of millions of people as this or that person or this or that system tried to impose their definition of “rock” on everyone in their path.
Here you have the President’s pathology stretched before everyone to see, but will we as a nation recognize it? I hope so, because our future depends on getting the President to adapt to a flexible system – not his “rock” system.
Yes We Did @ 4: You shouldn’t hate so much. Hate can lead to high blood pressure and that to heart attack or stroke. And now that you’re not going to get the free health care your president promised you, you’d be in no condition to WORK. ….Oh, I see…..then I guess that wouldn’t be a problem.
#9. You are quite correct. No more $300 per person. Just $400 more in taxes and government bureaucrats deterring which single treatment is cheapest for all patients with a particular ailment. It’s good we are socialists now and everyone is identical down to the last chromosome. Oh, and no recourse if you are a reactionary and that treatment doesn’t work. Just take the pill.
An astonishing and horrible thing Has been committed in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule by their own power; And My people love to have it so.
But what will you do in the end? [Jeremiah 5:30-31]
The return of The Lord is imminent, believe it or not.
Jesus said: And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. [John 14:3]
America has lost her soul; If you think God will bless a nation that kills 50 Million pre-born and turns it’s back on the other helpless people of society, you are wrong! No amount of legislation will allow those who oppose God’s remedy will escape judgment….NONE!
…government bureaucrats determining which single treatment is cheapest for all patients with a particular ailment.
Which process would quickly become politicized, even more politicized/arbitrary than the current system of private insurers not covering some procedures.
This kind of power resting in the government is really the point of all of BHO’s initiatives, from car company takeovers, to cap ‘n trade, to how peoples’ individual health is addressed.
He gave it all away, post-election, pre-inauguration when he said that the federal government is the only entity capable of doing all this sh!t.
Basically, we can define the federal government these daze as Barack Hussein Obama and his ideas for transforming America.
Interesting David Thomson that you take one sentence and fly with it as if that were the body of my thought.
Finding out what was covered and what was not, was an introduction to my experience in dealing with the insurance and medical industry.
Please feel free to strain at a gnat, and please explain what is a very expensive procedure. Would an example be paying for 3 stitches at a hospital costing over four thousand dollars be expensive? Who and what sets the prices and what income level would make something too expensive for not?
I don’t think comparing the medical industry with the retail industry would be a good example since retail thrives on competition and the other doesn’t. Not unless you know of doctors and hospitals that have weekly sales, or promotions. Should I feel fortunate when I was rushed to the hospital in an emergency that they were running a special of buy one stitch get one free?
If there was a law requiring me to change my oil, wiper blades, or tires before I would be allowed access to a road, your comparison might apply. But than we would need a hospital on every corner and a doctor’s office in every neighborhood all competing for my business just as their are retail stores, garages, and car dealers.
And of course I could change the oil, wiper blades and tires myself. You might want to consider that if a customer does his or her own work on their car, the insurance company should not cover them because they are not licensed to do so.
Please continue…
No amount of legislation will allow those who oppose God’s remedy will escape judgment….NONE!
Well, I wish the Lord would hurry up
(over and out)
when government desires not one but multiple unsustainable systems, you have to question the end game. Idealism doesn’t cut it.
Obama’s Orwellian definition of patient civil rights: Death panels for elderly americans(especially if they are white, middle class,and possibly republican)and unlimited health care for illegal aliens (read future democrat voters). Americans:Take Back Your Country!
Surely, we can safely consider Obama to be the most outstanding mediocrity of our time. Of course he has support from a dedicated cadre of outstanding mediocrities with Pelosi, Biden, Reid, Durbin, and many others. Considering all of them, but especially the Sophomoric Socialist Caricature that is Obama, a quote from Plutarch is appropriate: “When destiny raises a base character by acts of great importance, it reveals his lack of substance.
Like his Revolutionary Progressive Socialist Forefathers of Soviet Russia, Obama has ascended and maintains his position because of the sympathetic propaganda bureaus that are represented by the press and TV. In Russia during the struggles within the Bolshevik Party: the Progressive Socialists were insured of victory over the Bourgeois-Democrats by gaining control of the press. In this modern age the TV is the greater instrument of propaganda, but the press is still instrumental in covering the lies and innuendos created by the Sophomoric Socialist. Whether it is by design or a naivete, the Sophomoric Socialist feels impervious to public scrutiny of lies promulgated to reflect public awareness and changes in opinion. Without internet and radio, the public would have no access or awareness of the continuing obfuscation, distortions, and lies employed by Fearless Reader to present his Progressive Socialist Platform in a more palatable form for the American Public. This fact alone makes a mockery of the so-called Journalists and their selfrighteous claims of integrity; a propagandist is a paid whore and nothing more, it requires a skill but integrity and honesty are not included in the equation.
Once a Progressive Socialist Leader achieves complete power and control, he will dismantle all forms of dissent including competing forms of media. Obama is in the initial phases of this Progressive Socialist Control Phase by discouraging the public to quit listening to the Fox Channel and several talk show hosts. He has in effect laid the ground work for institutionalizing the concept of “I am the supreme leader, do not listen to the opposition or you will become confused”, of course, once he has a benumbed group of followers who only listen to the party line, he has achieved the first step in complete domination of America. How convenient is this idea of don’t listen to dissenting points of view. I won, I am in control; now I will remake America.
Yes Plutarch was correct, “When destiny raises a base character by acts of great importance, it reveals his lack of substance.”
23. Chuck Pelto:
“Because HIS lies are DEADLY!”
interesting concept – deadly lies. Let me think. Let me think. I can’t be certain, but I just know of a recent example of such a thing . . . What was it? . . . I’m getting a read on it . . . some abbreviation I believe . . . three letters . . . and if I’m not mistaken one of the letters was connected to the source of the deadly lie . . . oh, shoot . . . deadly lies. I remember it being supported universally by conservatives and Republicans. The didn’t seem to mind the deadly lie. In fact, they called others who complained about the lie un-American, said they were undermining our country . . . Hang on a minute . . . gee, this is so frustrating, and I’m a MENSA member! How embarrassing. Tell you what, I’ll come back to it. Meantime . . . WAIT! . . . I’m getting a number . . . it’s hazy . . . five . . . five thousand! Yes, I believe the number is 5,000. Now if I can just remember those three letters.
Anybody?
Now and Then:
Mensa Schmensa…that to impress(yourself)…waiting for Chuck’s comeback on the PJM reality show
Anyone read all the way through comment #51? Me either.
Now and Then is now translating into Unread Propaganda to me. I’m sure is was just fascinating reading though. Whatever it was.
Next.
All insurance whether it be life insurance, or automobile, health policies, workman compensation, or you name it will insure a certain individual given certain criteria set by that insurer the make a profit mostly by setting the price of the policy in relation to the risk that the individual will never have to file a claim and they limit the amount to be covered accordingly. Anyone can get insurance provided they are willing to pay the premium of course the insurer might be Lloyds of London http://www.lloyds.com/ and you will get a policy but can you or will you pay for it? No insurance company can possibly give affordable coverage especially for preexisting conditions that require frequent visits to the hospital.
It is not insurance reform that is needed but tort reform which is raising the cost of medical care in this country. If you had to pay out yearly 20% of you income just to reamin in business due to malpractice how much longer would you do that.
The threat of lawsuits and government regulation force unneeded tests to be conducted by medical professionals to ward off a lawsuit and increase in malpractice insurance.
Government deregulation and tort reform is what is really needed to combat the high cost of health care and drugs in this country.
4. Yes We Did:============
Have some more kool-aid.
I have been thinking to myself for several weeks now that ObamaCare is Affirmative Action Health Care — going to the front of the line for people who have done nothing to deserve it. Like the Black Panthers who Obama’s Justice Department dropped charges against — do they have health insurance (are they even employed?) and if not, aren’t they exactly who Obama is moving heaven and earth to assist in getting FREE health care?
Some important clues so we can discern the approach of the end times, “For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ [the savior],’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.”[ Matthew 24:5-8]
We are not to be deceived, because these events are only the beginning of birth pains; the end is still to come.
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). The last days are described as “perilous times” because of the increasingly evil character of man and people who actively “resist the truth” (2 Timothy 3:1-9)
2 Thessalonians 2:3 states:
“Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”
This health care bill is proof that Obama; “opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped…”
Furthermore; Israel must stand alone. [Ezekiel 37-39]
Your individual hope is Repent and Believe the Gospel. As the nation….well…. the US is NOT mentioned in End Time Prophecies.
53. athinkingperson . . .
It ain’t just a river in Egypt, know what I’m sayin? Sure you do.
51. Now and Then: “interesting concept – deadly lies. Let me think. Let me think. I can’t be certain, but I just know of a recent example of such a thing . . . What was it? . . . I’m getting a read on it . . . some abbreviation I believe . . . three letters . . . and if I’m not mistaken one of the letters was connected to the source of the deadly lie . . . oh, shoot . . . deadly lies. I remember it being supported universally by conservatives and Republicans. The didn’t seem to mind the deadly lie. In fact, they called others who complained about the lie un-American, said they were undermining our country . . . Hang on a minute . . . gee, this is so frustrating, and I’m a MENSA member! How embarrassing. Tell you what, I’ll come back to it. Meantime . . . WAIT! . . . I’m getting a number . . . it’s hazy . . . five . . . five thousand! Yes, I believe the number is 5,000. Now if I can just remember those three letters.
Anybody?”
Now and Then, let me help you out:
“The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program … Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.” — President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.
“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” — President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.
“We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” — Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on “Meet the Press.”
“We’ve learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases … Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints.” — President Bush, Oct. 7.
“We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States.” — President Bush, Oct. 7
“We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they’re weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established.” — President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address
“Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets.” — Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.
“We know where [Iraq's WMD] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat.” — Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.
“Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited.” — President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003
Yes We Did:
President Obama rules this country now. Universal health care and the other parts of the Progressive agenda are “done deals”.
Nice to know the libs true colors are out. They were never for democracy, but tyranny!
However, Obama framing this as “civil rights for the sick” is going to be very effective. I don’t see how conservatives can counter that without appearing like un-compassionate monsters.
I came accross this great editorial in the LATIMES. I jus tknow all teh wingnuts will appreciate it:
“The sick status quo
Images of ill Americans relying on the kindness of medical professionals says more about the need for reform than all that shouting.
August 13, 2009
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Cable news channels have devoted hours of airtime this week to the rancorous debates about healthcare reform at town halls across the country, supplementing the coverage with alarmist commercials about rationing and government-run care. Notably, opponents of the reform effort haven’t tried to defend the status quo. Instead, they’ve spent their time painting exaggerated pictures of what the system might look like in the future — a world of “death panels,” delayed treatments and lethal cost-cutting. In short, their nightmarish depiction of “Obama-care” looks a lot like a Hollywood version of an HMO, but with seniors instead of starlets.
It’s too bad the television cameras haven’t been trained instead on the Forum in Inglewood, where the Remote Area Medical Foundation opened a temporary clinic this week. The scene makes a compelling case for a healthcare overhaul, putting a human face on the dry statistics about uninsured and underinsured Americans. People started lining up Monday for a chance to be treated Tuesday by volunteer doctors, dentists, nurses and other healthcare providers. About 1,500 people were seen that first day; after hundreds more camped out overnight, the clinic ran at full capacity again on Wednesday. It’s scheduled to stay eight days before heading to its next stop, a reservation in Utah.
The turnout in Inglewood was huge despite the lack of publicity about the clinic, indicating how great the need is for more primary care. These are the people whose first stop for treatment tends to be the emergency room, often after a routine problem has festered long enough to become a complex (and expensive) one. Expanding health insurance to cover this group wouldn’t be cheap, but it’s a prerequisite to the changes in delivery and payment that will help improve care and control costs.
Remote Area Medical’s experience here also illustrates one of the best features of our healthcare system: the humanitarianism of its professionals. But unless the system is reformed to bring basic healthcare services to all Americans, far too many will continue to depend on the kindness of strangers.
David Thompson – If you were shocked by some of the thing sthat MLK said, you should be equally shocked by the words of Jesus – “35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me”
The Paradox: Leftism
1. Obama says big corporations, wall street, and big insurance companies are the bad guys.
2. Big corporations, wall street and big insurance companies were his big campaign contributors.
3. Obama says we can’t continue to have a bubble/bust economy where the only people who benefit are the rich and wall street.
4. The bubble/bust economy has been manufactured by wall street – cronies of Obama, et al. Create the crisis, create the “cure” (redistribution of wealth – but only among the middle and lower classes), the rich stay rich, the rest of us stay dependent on the government.
Curiously, or maybe not so, is the fact that every single appointee in the White House, made by Obama (cabinet and those 44 czars) are wall street cronies.
This administration makes Al Capone’s organization look like the Boy Scouts by comparison.
He lies, then he lies over the old lies, then he postulates, then he justifies, then he quantifies the lies, and he repeats the lies.
John is correct in his assertions. The biggest point is that this President is almost surely lying through his teeth on this issue. He is going full guns for the extremist position that we need to embrace Marxist philosophies of social justice and redistribution of wealth – and health care insurance is just an excuse to do it.
Sadly we have many fools that can’t see this for what it is and where it will lead. He talks about building pillars while he is sawing the legs off the economy. Only a fool believes we will be better off with more government control and less economic freedom.
The sooner we get past this administration and it’s fools, the better.
Found this beauty on another board and it is so simple and so true.
I believe that even a right wing republican might be able to understand things when put in these terms.
“Pay the for profit health insurers a dollar and they deliver 80 cents to health care….. medicare, the VA and every other wealthy democracy on the planet delivers 95 cents of that same dollar to health care….”
jharp: Ita a beauty all right since its not true and makes no sense. Pleaase consider:
1.
Dave – One thing your posts prove is that you have no idea what Marxism really is
jharp: #66
So govt delivers 95 cents to private’s 80 cents? Who knew! But before we jump to a conclusion, let’s remember that you can boast of feeding more people with watered down dog food than with healthy nutritious meals. so lets think for a minute:
1. Do the government run programs invest in new technology, equipment and drugs or just coast on what was to deliver reduced facet health care to the broadest possible number of people? What do you think?
2. If you believe govt and private deliver equal care for that differential, why did Walter Reed have mold everywhere and why do most vets complain that the VA does nothing for them? Why do Canadian hospitals have fewer CAT machines and similar devices per square mile than the US?
3. Soldiers and vets usually can’t sue the VA, sodollars spent by VA etc do not include the private expense of malpractice suits: isn’t that a factor that changes the numbers somewhat?
4. Private health attracts better doctors by far: no one denies that. Do you include any quality differential in your assessment?
5. do the cost figures include the cost of the IRS employees needed to get the taxes for this?
let me know.
Thanks
I find it ironic that we’re supposed to be having this so called “vigorous” debate on healthcare reform. (after telling Americans to shut up and let his DC crowd of fixers “fix” things, Obama has switched horses & embraced the “debate”.)
However, the House measure, HR3200, is written in such turgid, dense and obscure language that nobody (even, admittedly, Congresscritters) can get its thrust & meaning straight up.
A news commentator, whose name shall not be mentioned, recently said, hell, they could have spelled that stuff out in about 5 readable pages. (why, you’d think that intentional obfuscation was part of the deal, if you were a cynic, which, of course, I’m not…:) )
So, here ya go…
A translation in the English language
Jennifer, do you still think that the people who thought before the election that he was a radical are paranoid nuts? What happens when the paranoid nuts turn out to be right?
Oops. Wrong thread.
#4: White men have oppressed white women? Is that why white women possess a longer life span and 52% of the wealth in the US from their dead or still working husbands? Does that explain all the white women that suffered all the war wounds and deaths in WWI, WWII etc? Yeaahhhh, I see.
Blackwell:
“1. Do the government run programs invest in new technology, equipment and drugs?”
Yes, and the private run programs won’t be affected regardless. Do you really think it makes any difference who pays the bill. A dollar from the government spends just as well as a dollar from an insurance company.
“2. If you believe govt and private deliver equal care for that differential?”
Private firms will continue to deliver health care. No changes there.
“3. Soldiers and vets usually can’t sue the VA, sodollars spent by VA etc do not include the private expense of malpractice suits: isn’t that a factor that changes the numbers somewhat?”
No. Malpractice insurance is about 1% of health care costs.
“4. Private health attracts better doctors by far: no one denies that. Do you include any quality differential in your assessment?”
Private health care will remain. Just as it is.
“5. do the cost figures include the cost of the IRS employees needed to get the taxes for this?”
And what additional costs do you suppose would arise? The answer is 0.
It is obvious that have no understanding of the public plan. Study up on Medicare. It’s exactly like that.
There is absolutely NOTHING on this earth that the government can do better than private enterprise. Nothing.
The government cannot create wealth.
The government does not invent.
The government does not have compassion.
The government is a monolith of beaurocracy, ineptitude, inefficiency, and power.
It is lifeless and souless and it cannot be bargained with.
Our politicians – our employees – are so completely disconnected from the American people that they are incapable of comprehending the anger at the townhall meetings. They are incredulous – not because they think the anger is displaced – but because they honestly can’t believe anyone would disagree with them.
Their insulated beltway world does not include the “common people” of this nation. They are surrounded by syncophants and others who share the same world-view as they: that they are supreme.
Their low opinion of ordinary Americans includes people of every stripe and color – including fellow liberals. Why the trolls in here continue to advocate for these sub-humans is perplexing.
It’s us against them, and you can count on “them” to walk all over us, including the trolls, with the admonition that we may eat cake.
This debate is not about health care. It’s about the fate and future of our country and Constitution.
67. Anonymous:
“jharp: Ita a beauty all right since its not true and makes no sense.”
http://healthcare-economist.com/2006/07/27/medicares-true-administrative-costs/
“A common justification for Medicare is that the public health insurance system has an overhead cost which is about 2% of claims, while the private sector has administrative costs between 20%-25% of claims.”
Not quite and he goes on to explain.
Litow finds that taking into account extra legal costs from Medicare adjudication and CMS salaries, the administrative cost ratio increases to 5.2%.
Private Insurance on average has administrative costs of 16.7% (varying between 30% for individual policies to 12.5% for large group policies).
Try this on for size, because a relative was in Oregon recently for a wedding. People are being fed what they are fed so that they know what other people want them to know. Now, who are these people who are playing chess with the health of Americans. Those lined up on both sides, and Americans are being played like a fiddle.
Don’t health care allowances, like what Singapore has, make sense?
You know the libtards are getting desperate when they start quoting Jesus.
““Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you will not have to listen to his incessant whining about how hungry he is.”
;p
70. tanstaafl: “I find it ironic that we’re supposed to be having this so called “vigorous” debate on healthcare reform. (after telling Americans to shut up and let his DC crowd of fixers “fix” things, Obama has switched horses & embraced the “debate”.) “
I think you need to go back and check the actual definition of both “irony” and “debate”.
Typically, a “debate” is organized in a manner in which one side gives a rational argument for their position, and then the other side gives a rational argument for the opposing position.
I’ve never witnessed a debate where one side attempts to give a rational argument for their position, but is drowned out by the screams and verbal assaults (You’re a liar! Keep your government hands off my Medicare!”) of an opposing faction that never actually provides a rational opposing argument.
I would love to see a real honest-to-God debate. But that will never happen so long as the birthers and deathers and the rest of the nutcases continue to believe that screaming at people and hijacking a public forum is a legitimate form of debate.
Moogie:
“There is absolutely NOTHING on this earth that the government can do better than private enterprise. Nothing.”
Please share that with the 40 million seniors who are on Medicare.
And be sure to use the private highway system on your next vacation.
And also please let the millions who recently lost their life savings in the stock and real estate markets that their social security is doing just fine.
And get your private militia suited up. They are very much needed in Afghanistan.
Their low opinion of ordinary Americans includes people of every stripe and color – including fellow liberals.
The condescension exhibited by sundry speakers in the Townhalls is stunning. Dingell, Scott, Specter, Bishop…even the shrill Claire McKaskill who keeps trying to present herself as “she who understands you”
Why the trolls in here continue to advocate for these sub-humans is perplexing.
Birds of a feather ?
I would love to see a real honest-to-God debate.
Well, sweet pea, if no one (even, admittedly, Congresscritters themselves, like John Conyers)knows what the House bill actually says (but, of course, still plan to vote “yea”) I’d say an honest to God debate is well nigh impossible.
That’s why I linked the English translation.
When asked why the House bill is near incomprehensible, some democrat wonks have said… “oh, that’s to cover our legal asses” and so forth.
My sweet bippy.
For record, to paint the dissent & disgust evident from every day Americans in townhalls as violent, “un American” whatever is beyond despicable, coming from this craven bunch of cowards (is that redundant?) currently calling the shots on Capitol Hill.
#80 makes an excellent point. Moogie and friends, y’all haven’t been driving on public highways, have you? Shame on you.
I’ve always wondered what government-phobes think about while they’re riding down the Interstate listening to Hannity or Limbaugh. Those highways aren’t a natural feature, you know. They were built with tax money, and they’re durned handy to have around, aren’t they? Try walking cross-country if you want to show how principled you are.
“I’ve never witnessed a debate where one side attempts to give a rational argument for their position, but is drowned out by the screams and verbal assaults (You’re a liar! Keep your government hands off my Medicare!”) of an opposing faction that never actually provides a rational opposing argument.”
And the irony is that the teabaggers while screaming their incessant nonsense in order to stifle the debate, whine and carry on that the pro reform group is trying to squash THEIR freedom of speech.
Crazy world we live in. And in some very troubling times.
Marklar:
Last I checked, town hall meetings weren’t set up for debate. Questions and concerns maybe…the dbate in DC is the one that had preempted by the side that ‘won’
Your arguement is disenguous at best.
More on the likelihood of an “honest to God debate”…
Barack Obama had a young girl ask him a long, friendly question in Tuesday’s NH Townhall.
Only the girl (reading the question) was the daughter of a big supporter and dedicated Obamatron. (hey, let’s use kids to sell our boondoggles !)
And then you’ve got…
Stuff like this going on…
I agree completely that “what [Obama] means by civil rights is both far broader and deeper than what most of us think of when we think of civil rights enforcement.” But it’s not so clear that we actually limit “civil rights” to “removing artificial barriers based on race, sex, or ethnicity that block equal opportunity.” After all, for example, a criminal defendant has a right to legal representation. Isn’t that kind of thing also a civil right — even if in a broader but not absurd or unintelligible sense? I would imagine that those who represent health care services as a basic right are in fact — though maybe only implicitly — comparing it to the right to a lawyer. And if this is what they do mean, I think it would actually be possible to have a conversation with them. And it might even be feasible to come to some kind of solution — a kind of “medical aid” analogous to legal aid for those who can’t afford private insurance.
i believe Lynn and Shadow had the best responses so far. in many of the others i only saw hate, some racial in nature, slurs and totally uninformed because they would rather spew out all the misinformation that mostly right wing republicans. are putting out just because they lost the election and many can’t stand the thought that a black man is president. Canada has a single payer system which is so called socialized medicine, but the Obama plan is nothing like Canada. its simply keep your plan and doctor or get in to a group pool of private insurers and pick out the best for you. if that fails, there will be a medicare type options you can choose with a lower premium yet. business can chose from this pool or keep what they have. in Canada you pay a 90.00 premium and the government insures the entire country. some doctors are private and some work for the government. they are short on doctors but are working on that. Cuba has a surplus of doctors with their system. there are some waiting in Canada, but if you have an emergency, you are put in front of the line. it cost the Canadian gov. about half to service their people than the us. which is true in most countries. so the gov. role in the us is minor compared to Canada and UK. the constitution say we are guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. wouldn’t good health come under that. Obama is only leveling the playing field to accomplish this. all the other stuff you hear is crap and should be viewed as such.
It seems to me that we all spend a lot of time, effort, and energy trying to convince someone that I’m right and you’re wrong. In the meantime, we have the “servants” in Washington (yes, that is sarcasm), robbing ALL of us blind.
Why not start the “reform” by allowing those that are paying taxes have some actual say in where their dollars are being spent? If you favor a strong defense, fine, allocate your dollars there. If you favor providing healthcare for the less fortunate, fine, allocate your dollars there. The list goes on and on. Don’t want to pay for pork anymore, fine, don’t allocate any money to it.
With the advent of electronic filing, and other technological advances, I don’t see this as an overly burdensome process. What it will show is where people are willing to spend their money. I also believe it will take some of the “power” away from our elected “servants”, and diminish the relevance of special interest groups. Additionally, if middleclass America is truly carrying the tax burden of the country, they would also have the most say in its operation.
I know this is overly simplistic as I’m just trying to float the idea. What I’m really trying to get at here is that its time for Americans to take back America. And yes, my position on this is unchanged regardless of which “party” is in charge.
You have the right to remain silent, you have the right to sub-standard healthcare, you have the right to no choice. If you give up these rights, you will be taxed even more outrageously than you will be already. Single-payer healthcare will still profit from the sick, but this time it’ll be the government saving money and not the insurance companies!
Harpy, I can’t understand how people can believe medicare
is something we should be proud of.Physicans cannot make a living having only medicare pts. Medicare doesn’t have admin.costs,doesn’t have to advertise and doesn’t pay…it tells MD’s what it will pay them to treat medicare pts.It costs MD’s to take care of medicare pts.and that is why some physicans will not take any more medicare pts.and it can take a long time to get paid. I think so many of our people think health care will be the same for them under Obama care as now cept they won’t have to pay.Medicare has been losing money since it’s inception…the gov.is proping it up.
I agree something should be done with health care but this Obama care isn’t it.It dosen’t have to be ramed thru so fast without being read and if it is heads should roll.I will leave you with this…No one should be without health care but if the reason is the 47,000,000(illegals anyone ?) we can do something about that now without destroying the entire system.We can then take the time to reform our present system and do it right.I have more to say but I think I’ll take my nap now.
Words of the Supreme Leader of the Proletarian Revolution, against all the lies of the commie trolls who, sorry: that infest this forum:
I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. … A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.
Get ready for the commissions that will advise you about your good death, trollies !
Thank you for the opportunity to comment
Anonymous:
“Single-payer healthcare will still profit from the sick”
Really? Someone has proposed a single payer health care system?
I had no idea. Link?
You teabaggers have no idea what this debate is even about.
75. Moogie: “There is absolutely NOTHING on this earth that the government can do better than private enterprise. Nothing.”
“The government cannot create wealth.”
Really? I got a government loan to start my first business. When my business generated wealth, I rightly thanked the government for providing the loan that allowed me to generate that wealth. Perhaps you have difficulty comprehending complex chains of causation?
The government does not invent.
Yes it surely does. It invented the technology that created rockets, satellites, the Internet, and subsidized the invention of most of the military tech we have. And that’s not counting the great deal of medical technologies that government has either invented or subidized. Many of the technological achievements of the past 50 years were created either by the federal government or through huge public investment in private research.
“The government does not have compassion.”
Oh, and Enron, Halliburton, Blackwater, the health insurance industry, and Wall Street are bastions of goodwill and compassion! Don’t make me laugh. At least government is partly accountable to the people and is at least partly transparent. Private industry has no accountability and no transparency except to its shareholders. If you’re not a shareholder, well, you can **** off. Yeah, that sounds very compassionate.
“The government is a monolith of beaurocracy, ineptitude, inefficiency, and power.
It is lifeless and souless and it cannot be bargained with.”
Get real. Government is made up of human beings doing their jobs, just like you. You sound like some kind of Radio Rwanda broadcaster, trying to incite violence against government employees/representatives by labeling them as “soulless”. Hitler probably called the undesirables in German society “soulless” as well.
“Our politicians – our employees – are so completely disconnected from the American people that they are incapable of comprehending the anger at the townhall meetings. They are incredulous – not because they think the anger is displaced – but because they honestly can’t believe anyone would disagree with them.”
So just because you’re really angry, that means we have to accept your opinion as legitimate? I don’t think so. Al Qaeda was angry too. Did we have to accept their opinions as legitimate as well? Of course not, because we don’t negotiate with terrorists.
We listened to your opinions and found them to be shrill and uninformed. So we stopped listening. You want us to pay better attention? Get better opinions.
“It’s us against them, and you can count on “them” to walk all over us, including the trolls, with the admonition that we may eat cake.
This debate is not about health care. It’s about the fate and future of our country and Constitution.”
It’s only us against them because you see it that way. If you folks would kindly calm down and have serious debate that is fact-based and includes communicating in a rational manner and listening to the merits of the other side’s view without constantly screaming “SOCIALIZUM!”, I’m sure that we could have a constructive conversation.
And the debate is about health care, despite your efforts to hijack the conversation towards other ridiculous issues like birth certificates and death panels. However, if you choose to clown around and squander your chance to meaningfully contribute to health care reform, you don’t get to complain when the final bill doesn’t have your language anywhere in it.
gladius:
“Harpy, I can’t understand how people can believe medicare
is something we should be proud of”
Maybe this will help.
For more than 38 years, Medicare has successfully provided basic, nearly universal health coverage to America ‘s older and disabled citizens. Because older Americans generally have higher health care costs than any other segment of our population, they are mostly shunned by private health plans.
Before Medicare was enacted, about half of all seniors had no health insurance, and nearly 35 percent lived in poverty.
Medicare changed all that. By creating a universal insurance pool, Medicare allowed the previously uninsurable senior population to share their risks and resources, providing affordable coverage where little had existed before.
#92, here it is on tape…
Linda Douglass, ABC reporter lured over to be Barack’s point person to explain Obamacare to the proles, would probably consider this tape of Dear Leader as “fishy”…
Obama on single payer health insurance
jharp, Social Security isn’t doing just fine. It will run a deficit this year (or next year if we’re lucky) and it only gets bleaker from here on out. If you’re under 50, don’t count on ever collecting Social Security, and if you’re under 60, don’t count on receiving full benefits.
Gladius
How do you explain the fact that although physicians can opt out of Medicare 97% have not opted out. Now yu might have a case whith Mediciad where the pay is so low few physicians can afford to practice in a poor neighborhood. You need to get your facts right. I uspect you will be the first one in line to get his medicare card
86. tanstaafl,
So that’s how 0bamacare is going to work! FAKE DOCTORS!
jharp just copied & pasted all that stuff about Medicare, without attribution, of course.
You know, jharp, who keeps telling “teabaggers” they don’t know stuff he knows.
RE: 94. Parker L.:
This is a good example of context-dropping, mentally bobbing-and-weaving, fixating on non-essentials, knee-jerk shotgun defensiveness, all done in order to evade this simple, easily understandable phrase: “…better than private enterprise”.
The scary part, Delia, is that the crowd currently running this country ia arrogant enough to think that all of their little plants & phony devices will work.
Hell, Bobby Gibbs can always tell us the President simply misspoke (like when Obama said “AARP is on board”)* and we can all move on to the next set of lies & innuendo.
Maybe the scariest part is that their little plants and devices do, in fact, work, cf. arguments of forum trolls.
*well, AARP is probably on board in order to sell you insurance under the new plan, but AARP was horrified (pretended to be horrified) at the President’s remark. This is a group you do not want in your knickers (aarp) if you happen to be approaching sr. citizen status.
“Civil rights” for the sick? Blasphemy!
# 20 A THINKING PERSON Obama cant tell someone what provisions to provide or exclude in a policy. If the insurance companies dont want to insure someone other than their race then they are certainly within their rights as stated by the constitution. But come on tell us your theory Thinking Person. Does it go something like this: Obama passes a govt health care plan, insurance companies that provide health care now have to lower their prices or include more coverage for the same amount of money, because of that we become communists like Great Britain, France, Canada and everyone else in the free world that has govt health care for its citizens. Did social programs like Social security & Medicare take away our freedoms? Those of us that really are thinking people would sooner believe Sarah Palin is an intellectual than we would believe the usual right wing paranoia & spin that passes as fact.
100. Kim: “This is a good example of context-dropping, mentally bobbing-and-weaving, fixating on non-essentials, knee-jerk shotgun defensiveness, all done in order to evade this simple, easily understandable phrase: “…better than private enterprise”.
Baloney. Just take a look at the pharmaceutical industry. We have a pill for ED but not for cancer. Dichloroacetate, an analogue of acetic acid, has shown great promise in killing cancer cells, but because it cannot be patented and thus would not garner the investment interest, the pharmaceutical industry has largely ignored it.
The free market gravitates to what will generate profit in the short term and has absolutely no mechanism for either long term research/investment for the common good nor prioritization of essential products/services over luxury products/ services.
When you allow private industry to dictate what is researched and developed, you get a whole lot of weiner pills and no cure for cancer.
This is actually a good point that Obama brought up. Is it a right or not? Is government obligated to provide these things or not?
I say no. We need food, shelter, garments… and now and then, we must put the jalopy into the shop for some maintenance. These are all personal responsibilities. It is not up to the government to provide these things. Government has no money of its own. It must take the money by force from the citizens.
If you can’t afford your own healthcare, and you demand that the government do so, well, you’re not asking the government to get the money from you! You’re asking the government to get the money from someone else. This someone else is capable of providing healthcare and such for themselves and their family, and now, you demand that they provide for you and yours, too! So, instead of them being able to afford some of the luxuries in life, things they have earned, you demand that the government force them at gunpoint to “stand and deliver”.
To illustrate this point, if you think that we should provide such healthcare to others, get together with ten friends. You all agree to chip in $100/mo to provide health insurance for someone else. Adopt a neighboring family. Be ready for disappointment, however, because you will then begin to scrutinize their lifestyle, and when you see them indulging themselves in various luxuries, while you shell out money for their health insurance, you will get steamed!
The only thing that makes this healthcare boondoggle tolerable is the notion of OPM – Other People’s Money. As long as people think someone else will be hit with the bill, they will vote for it, because it makes them feel all noble inside. They did their part by re=allocating someone else’s money, someone who is rich and “can afford it”.
This OPM concept is a result of class warfare. Class warfare is really just institutionalized coveting. They get you coveting, resenting the greater wealth of others, then they convince you to steal. Those evil rich guys. We’ll show them! We’ll redistribute their wealth. After all, the workers create the wealth and the rich exploit them and take the wealth from them. We’re just taking it back. It’s not really stealing, right?
Um, actually, it is. The lower classes don’t create the wealth, else they’d be wealthy. They do the labor. The wealthy create the wealth, because they have that skillset. Wealth is created between one’s ears. The wealthy create the opportunities for others who lack the skillset of wealth-creation to work and feed their families. To know this is true, just look around the world at countries where the only wealthy are those in government or with strong political connections. The rest, some 96%, live in poverty, because those with the skillset of producing wealth have been suppressed. Those with riches are the thugs at the top.
Thou shalt not covet. Thou shalt not steal.
The Shadow @ # 63:
Jusus was admonishing his followers to be individually charitable to those less fortunate, which Americans are and have always been. You present an example of this in your previous comment (#62) where healthcare professionals are donating their time and resources to help the needy. And one needs only to take note of who responds when people around the world fall victim to natural disasters such as earthquakes and floods. Americans are always there first with the most.
Yet comment #63 seems to indicate that you favor working Americans be FORCED, by taxation, to provide healthcare to old-money (non-taxpaying) elitists, people that are in this country illegally (lawbreakers), the able-bodied-indolent, gang members/other criminal elements and others with no right to expect “free” services from overburdened taxpayers. Obamacare can only result in rationed healthcare services, with the disabled and elderly most likely losing out. How ironic that Jesus was probably referring to those folks when he spoke of “the least of these”.
105. Anonymous:
Your argument rests on an altruist, utilitarian conception of the good.
This is at odds with the idea that each individual is an end in themselves, and not a means to some arbitrarily defined common good.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of our OWN happiness is the founding morality of this country.
If the market doesn’t provide the things that you desire, then you are free to produce them, but you have no right to dictate your priorities to anyone else, or use the machinery of government to force your will upon others.
#104 Obama can’t tell someone what provisions to provide or exclude in a policy? Could Obama not prompt Nancy Pelosi to introduce legislation? HELLO? Anybody home?
There are THOUSANDS of Federal regulations on everything from banking to investments to health care to the envoirnment, what’s the problem with adding yet another instead of REVAMPING an entire system?
You may be street smart but book smart you are not.
jharp… Quit beating around the bush and just say it already…”I WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO BECAUSE I CAN’T THINK FOR MYSELF!”
I don’t know about anybody else but I’m tired of reading your inane posts where you tap dance around the obvious. You want government to be in charge of your life. You want to relinquish all personal responsibility.
Now that the cat is out of the bag and we know where you stand, go back to your mindless job at the styrofoam peanut factory and leave the rest of the decision making to those that actually give a damn about personal freedoms.
No nanny-state for me thank you.
jharp: what are you smokin’ my friend?
1. Do the government run programs invest in new technology, equipment and drugs?”
Yes, and the private run programs won’t be affected regardless. Do you really think it makes any difference who pays the bill. A dollar from the government spends just as well as a dollar from an insurance company.
NO WAY! Govt is not motivated to deliver better service because there is no competition: has your postal delivery gotten better or worse? Nor is it motivated to invest in superior equipment since it has a monopoly: the FAA still does not have new computers–they use things with tubes! The post office is as slow and careless as before if not more so. The VA is as sloppy and indifferent to vets as its always been. And how are the big city public schools doing?
“2. If you believe govt and private deliver equal care for that differential?”
Private firms will continue to deliver health care. No changes there.
NO WAY! How is the private sector supposed to compete with a competitor they subsidize except in narrow areas that pander to the rich? What this plan will do is consign everyone but the rich and Congress to “public school care,” while the rich will enjoy private care. And this is a benefit to people? (I bet you oppose vouchers for schools too! Yes?)
“3. Soldiers and vets usually can’t sue the VA, so dollars spent by VA etc do not include the private expense of malpractice suits: isn’t that a factor that changes the numbers somewhat?”
No. Malpractice insurance is about 1% of health care costs.
NO WAY! Did you forget the cost of payments and settlements, attorneys fees? How about the escalated cos for the VA if everyone allowed to sue it for sloppy care were allowed to dos o? If VA had to increase its care standards to avoid suits it would cost more–again.
“4. Private health attracts better doctors by far: no one denies that. Do you include any quality differential in your assessment?”
Private health care will remain. Just as it is.
NO WAY! See above.
“5. do the cost figures include the cost of the IRS employees needed to get the taxes for this?”
And what additional costs do you suppose would arise? The answer is 0.
NO WAY! Are you being wilfully obtuse? You cannot claim that public healthcare delivers 90% of every $ to healthcare unless you fully account for government overhead used by any govt healthcare system–and you don’t. It needs to be allocated a share of the tax collection overhead etc that will fund it–which drives the percentage of dollars delivered down to the 80 cents range of private care if not lower.
It is obvious that have no understanding of the public plan. Study up on Medicare. It’s exactly like that.
NO WAY! Its obvious that you are relying on faith not a fair and complete analysis of how it will be funded and how govt programs work. I appreciate you may have a big heart but it is misdirected: you will do more harm than good.
Please listen carefully to more normal people. They know what it means when the govt becomes the only game in town.
regards,
PEOPLE! The time is NOW to start planning. As I predicted the Dems are imploding. 2010 is going to be good to the Republican party. But the question if you are a Republican should be this:do we deserve this gift? Have we tattooed on our souls deeply enough the idea of NEVER AGAIN when it comes to the principles we SOLD OUT when co-signing on Bush’s BS? When we just let it slide when he bloated the deficit? Who are we going to be?
There are two kinds of people: 1. Slaves and or people with slave mentalities, and 2. Freemen and or people who aspire to freedom.
The former thinks of Obamacare as the master taking care of them; the latter thinks of it as pure evil.
Marc Malone:
“The lower classes don’t create the wealth, else they’d be wealthy”
Complete and utter nonsense. You obviously have no education.
Abraham Lincoln
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
Just in case you don’t read it on the other thread…
Vindication for Sarah Palin!!
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/breaking-finance-committee-drops-death-panel-provisions-from-senate-bill/
I love the smell of VINDICATION don’t you?
Blackwell:
Go read up on the bill. You have no idea what you are talking about.
The public option is not going to be “free”. You will pay premiums just like any other insurance policy. Though it still being debated, the reimbursement rates will resemble Medicare rates.
The doctors, hospitals, nurses, drug companies, etc. will remain for profit private entities.
And like Medicare, the public plan will have administration costs of 5%.
So for every dollar you pay in you get back 95 cents of health care as opposed to the private insurers today that for every dollar taken in you get back 80 cents of health care.
And no one is denied coverage. And no higher rates because of pre existing conditions.
It’s a winner. Get used to it. You morons are voting against your own best interests.
It’ll be fun watching the insurers suddenly find a way to offer coverage at reduced premiums with some new competition on the block. I guarantee that.
#94 Parker:
“The government cannot create wealth.”
Really? I got a government loan to start my first business. When my business generated wealth, I rightly thanked the government for providing the loan that allowed me to generate that wealth. Perhaps you have difficulty comprehending complex chains of causation?
That loan was provided by the people of this country, not the government. It was your own creativity and enterprise that created the wealth. It wasn’t the government’s idea nor follow through that made your business a success.
“The government does not invent.”
Yes it surely does. It invented the technology that created rockets, satellites, the Internet, and subsidized the invention of most of the military tech we have. And that’s not counting the great deal of medical technologies that government has either invented or subsidized. Many of the technological achievements of the past 50 years were created either by the federal government or through huge public investment in private research.
The government subsidizes via grants – money provided, once again, by the people of this great country. The labs that create are not run by the government, they are private enterprises whose sole purpose is to create and to profit by that creation. You said it yourself: “private research.”
“The government does not have compassion.”
Oh, and Enron, Halliburton, Blackwater, the health insurance industry, and Wall Street are bastions of goodwill and compassion! Don’t make me laugh. At least government is partly accountable to the people and is at least partly transparent. Private industry has no accountability and no transparency except to its shareholders. If you’re not a shareholder, well, you can **** off. Yeah, that sounds very compassionate.
Ah, yes, the old “point the finger” technique. Wall street is not a bastion of goodwill, but it is most assuredly the arm up the back of most politicians. The government is accountable in theory only, and there is nothing transparent about it when 1,000 page bills are created in secret and passed without being read. Get real. Private industry, on the other hand, IS accountable – yes, to shareholders and consumers. If the consumer is not happy, the consumer walks. Do YOU understand the complex chains of causality?
“The government is a monolith of bureaucracy, ineptitude, inefficiency, and power.
It is lifeless and soulless and it cannot be bargained with.”
Get real. Government is made up of human beings doing their jobs, just like you. You sound like some kind of Radio Rwanda broadcaster, trying to incite violence against government employees/representatives by labeling them as “soulless”. Hitler probably called the undesirables in German society “soulless” as well.
Let me clarify this for you, since you seem to be incapable of understanding that in my post, “government” means politicians. My husband is a government employee, as I once was. I am talking about those who adjudicate, legislate, and the appointees in the White House. As an entity, they are are neither compassionate nor empathetic.
“Our politicians – our employees – are so completely disconnected from the American people that they are incapable of comprehending the anger at the townhall meetings. They are incredulous – not because they think the anger is displaced – but because they honestly can’t believe anyone would disagree with them.”
So just because you’re really angry, that means we have to accept your opinion as legitimate? I don’t think so. Al Qaeda was angry too. Did we have to accept their opinions as legitimate as well? Of course not, because we don’t negotiate with terrorists.
We listened to your opinions and found them to be shrill and uninformed. So we stopped listening. You want us to pay better attention? Get better opinions.
So, just because you are a troll who has barged in on MY forum, that means I have to accept your opinion as legitimate? I don’t think so. I have listened to your opinions and found them to be shrill and uninformed. So I stopped listening. You want me to pay better attention? Get better opinions. You may use mine if you’d like, since they are the correct ones.
“It’s us against them, and you can count on “them” to walk all over us, including the trolls, with the admonition that we may eat cake.
This debate is not about health care. It’s about the fate and future of our country and Constitution.”
It’s only us against them because you see it that way. If you folks would kindly calm down and have serious debate that is fact-based and includes communicating in a rational manner and listening to the merits of the other side’s view without constantly screaming “SOCIALIZUM!”, I’m sure that we could have a constructive conversation.
And the debate is about health care, despite your efforts to hijack the conversation towards other ridiculous issues like birth certificates and death panels. However, if you choose to clown around and squander your chance to meaningfully contribute to health care reform, you don’t get to complain when the final bill doesn’t have your language anywhere in it.
At no point in my comment did I bring up birth certificates and death panels. You are projecting. My comment was neither shrill nor was it angry. I was stating facts. At what point was I clowning around and squandering my chance to contribute? Was I not doing exactly that – contributing – when you attacked me with meaningless drivel and strawman arguments?
You see, YOU people have made this very personal with your constant name calling and out-of-hand rejection of anything we say. You are not hearing anything we have to say, so why are you here? Do you honestly think barging in on our forum and calling us names is going to make any of us change our minds?
My comment was not an attack on the left or liberals. It was an observation – quite factual – about our government … our politicians, to be exact. Why are you so defensive? Are you going to try to tell me you didn’t feel this same way when Bush was in power?
Stop being a hypocrite and try being a patriot.
Obama is a follower/teacher of “Saul Alinksy”…they are following the example as we speak and tearing the US down.
If you do not know who Saul is, please read up on him and his tactics, and you will recognize Obama and his cronies.
This is scapegoating at it’s best, and he (Obama) is a master..
Even Hillary (and Bill) have met their match in the Alinsky stuff..and we the citizens are being played..Obama doesn’t give a hoot what we think or feel. He has no vested interest, a narcissist to the bitter end.
AThinkingPerson:
Sarah Palin is a vile piece of scum.
What kind of person scares the hell out of the elderly with lies about voluntary end of life counseling? And I have seen it first hand. My friends elderly father is scared to death. All because of an out and out lie.
She’s nothing but a vile low life opportunist.
AThinkingPerson:
“There are THOUSANDS of Federal regulations on everything from banking to investments to health care to the envoirnment, what’s the problem with adding yet another instead of REVAMPING an entire system?”
What planet are you on?
It can’t be any clearer. You can keep the insurance you have.
Adding a public plan is exactly what you describe, “adding yet another”.
Good Lord, I wish our educational system hadn’t failed so many. Or did you even go to school? Home schooled maybe?
the comments don’t get any more intelligent from the last time i logged on. i made a mistake in my comments about Canada’s health car premium. it is 96 dollars not 90 dollars per month as i described. a good look up if you really want some information about the Canada health care system is snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp. my last comment was no. 88/glen
Oh, and Enron, Halliburton, Blackwater, the health insurance industry, and Wall Street are bastions of goodwill and compassion! Don’t make me laugh. At least government is partly accountable to the people and is at least partly transparent. Private industry has no accountability and no transparency except to its shareholders. If you’re not a shareholder, well, you can **** off. Yeah, that sounds very compassionate.
The paragraph above, from my latest comment, should not have been bold, as it wasn’t my response but #94′s response to my previous comment.
AThinkingPerson:
Here’s your fraud Palin.
“However, on April 16th 2008, then Gov. Sarah Palin endorsed some of the same end of life counseling she now decries as a form of euthanasia. In a proclamation announcing “Healthcare Decisions Day,” Palin urged public facilities to provide better information about advance directives, and made it clear that it is critical for seniors to be informed of such options:”
There’s more. http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/13/palin-deathpanel-flipflop/
jharp;
Obama has stated on numerous occasions his goal is to impose single-payer healthcare on Americans. We’ve all seen the video evidence and read the transcripts of his 2008 campaign speeches. I don’t trust this lying charlatan for a moment, as leftists don’t stick it up you all at once, they do it a fraction at a time.
Why do the moderaters bother posting the rules for commenting on this site if they don’t have the balls to enforce them?
jharp @120 finally makes a decent point when he says that our public school system has failed so many. He just thinks it will be different with healthcare.
Saltherring:
lay off jharp; He says we’ll cover 40 million more people, including pre-existing conditions and illegals, all at a lesser cost, hold admin at 5%, and continue innovating and delivering quality care. Its so obviously good that only people with actual experience could doubt its overwhelming appeal.
True the postal service cannot even deliver little envelopes without blundering losses. As the GAO states: “Compensation and benefits constitute close to 80 percent of its costs – a percentage that has remained similar over the years despite major advances in technology and automating postal operations. Also, USPS continues to pay a higher share of employee health benefit premiums than other federal agencies.”
Yes, Blackwell, it is evident that (as jharp says in #120) our education system has failed folks like you and me, as we have obviously retained the ability to think for ourselves.
17. vivo:
….
Biggest scam in the world. If they were serious, they should be able to cover any disaster as they come along. It’s almost like a Ponzi scheme. Except that it’s legal. Again, it’s our legislators fault.
And you want our legislators to fix it?
Interesting that Obama’s supporters were on tv today, gathering at the local “social services” office to demonstrate…not an evil “white devil” in the bunch.
I don’t care what color Obama is. He’s a loser/socialist what ever color he is, but..we are on the verge of civil war if we’re not careful!!
Page One of “The Bill”:
“To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans
and reduce the growth in health care spending, and
for other purposes.”
It’s the last three words there that have me concerned about this bill. That little statement is open to some very broad interpretation.
Blackwell:
“lay off jharp; He says we’ll cover 40 million more people, including pre-existing conditions and illegals, all at a lesser cost, hold admin at 5%, and continue innovating and delivering quality care.”
And then we’ll be up to speed with the rest of world.
Why would you doubt that the United States of America, the greatest country the world has ever known, can’t have an efficient health care delivery system?
Why do you hate America?
And in case you didn’t realize it. We are providing health care for all that you mention. Only the insurance companies are sucking out 20% of our expenditures.
In the most expensive health system in the world.
For the same level of care.
The liberals think Sarah Palin is a “vile piece of scum” even though she has been vindicated? Wow, if they feel that way about her I can only imagine how they secretly feel about the current hot-mess lying to them and making them look foolish from the White House. The adjectives would probably make a truck driver blush.
120. jharp:
You’re right – HB 3200 doesn’t outlaw private insurance, so you can keep it – for now.
What it DOES is, determine what plans qualify, and what they must cover, and what they must charge for premiums and co-pays. If your employer doesn’t offer a qualifying plan, or can’t afford it, he must pay an 8% payroll tax, regardless whether or not he offers healthcare coverage. The “public option”, by definition, doesn’t have to worry about “qualifying”, since they (essentially) make the rules everyone has to follow. So, is it smarter to keep a non-qualifying plan and pay 8%, or drop it altogether (and still pay 8%) and let your employees find something – maybe a (convenient) subsidized government plan, maybe?
It is a way to all-of-a-sudden end up with single-payer care(oh my? how did we end up with no-one willing to insure? I have NOOOO idea). Who else wants the trouble? You know it (even if you don’t want to admit it). So why argue?
Don’t worry, says jharp, your plan hasn’t been outlawed! It’s just been outruled!
This isn’t “competition”, and you know it. so quit trying so hard, jharp. It’s monopolistic behavior that only the federal government could get away with, since they are the ones who prosecute anti-trust litigation – and why would they see anything wrong in what they do?
Oh yeah, quit linking thinkprogress for your backup. It doesn’t help your cause here. And, BTW, it is different if someone advocates for it (it’s not a bad idea) and it being enshrined in law as an imperative.
Oh, sorry about that Marxist crack, Shadow. I meant to say “agrarian reformer”.
Isn’t it adorable when leftists play there smug little “your stupid” game? Then run right out and demand we repeat all the same mistakes of the last 2 centuries.
83. Shef Rogers wrote:
I’ve always wondered what government-phobes think about while they’re riding down the Interstate listening to Hannity or Limbaugh. Those highways aren’t a natural feature, you know.
Peter writes: Ahh, but interstate highways fall under the purview of regulating interstate commerce, which IS a function of the Federal Government under the Constitution of the United States. Please tell me which article or amendment says Health Care is a right of every citizen.
The US Constitution. Try reading it sometime.
AThinkingPerson:
Thanks for the link to the idiocy over at hot air. I actually couldn’t believe what I read.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/breaking-finance-committee-drops-death-panel-provisions-from-senate-bill/
“Exit question: This is a win for Palin, but is it also a win for Obama? Now he can reassure Americans that the most worrisome parts of the bill are stripped out.”
Really? The most worrisome parts, really? Wow. It must be quite a conservative bill to have a bi partisan solution get stripped out over a lie by Palin.
Hmmmm. Palin wins. And the health reform bill wins.
I can live with that.
Palin v. Obama 2012. Bring. It. On.
I assumed #4 was writing a brief satire.
I’ve assumed that before and been wrong, however.
Peter the Bubblehead:
“Peter writes: Ahh, but interstate highways fall under the purview of regulating interstate commerce, which IS a function of the Federal Government under the Constitution of the United States. Please tell me which article or amendment says Health Care is a right of every citizen.”
__________________________________________________
Are you really so ignorant that you believe that Medicare and Medicaid are constitutional yet a public health insurance OPTION for those who cannot buy health insurance is not?
Please, Peter. Please. I admitted I was wrong the other day about the Tricare/VA. Be a man. Come clean.
104. street smart wrote:
# 20 A THINKING PERSON Obama cant tell someone what provisions to provide or exclude in a policy. If the insurance companies dont want to insure someone other than their race then they are certainly within their rights as stated by the constitution.
Peter writes: street smart ain’t!
Hey, street, try reading the bill (yeah, I know, why bother if the congresspeople won’t even read it either), but it’s right there in black and white.
Pages 26-30, Section 122, of HR 3200, also known as “America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009″:
Essential Benefits Package Defined.
I won’t write out the whole section, because it rambles on a bit, and if you are so ‘smart’ you can simply look it up, since it’s posted all over the web, but what it comes down to is this;
1. The bill defines “acceptable coverage” and leaves no room for choice in this regard.
2. By setting a minimum 70% actuarial value of benefits, the bill makes health plans in which individuals pay for routine services, but carry insurance only for catastrophic events (such as Health Savings Accounts) illegal.
Plus, under the law as it would be changed by this bill, if the provisions in your private insurance plan do not match what the government says they should be, you (or your employer, if it is job-provided) will be fined an additional 8% tax on payroll, with the IRS given authority to collect this new tax.
Anyone else wish we really had Obama’s magic reset button, so we could let the libtards run the country how they want for, just say, two or three years. Let all the gimme groups and lazy libs and loony libs see what life really would be like under their ‘Progressive Utopia,’ and then when they’ve finally had enough because they finally realize there isn’t anything for them to be given as all the wealth generation either abandons our country or is regulated out of existance and we are little more than a large third world country on the verge of anarchy, we press the magic reset button and bring everything back to August 13, 2009 and do thing the right way without all the libtard whining?
63. The Shadow:
Nice try at attempting to use Jesus’ words. Unfortunately for you He did not say anywhere that the power of the government should be used to force money out of people for charitable purposes. He is talking about individual charity, something that we Americans are very good at by the way. There is a tremendous difference between acts of generosity and extortion by the government at the point of a gun. But I think you know that.
0bama says:
“If ya think about it. Up-yup-. UPS & FedEx are doin’ just fine. Right–uh-the uh. No, they are. I mean. It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.”
Brillz. Thankies, 0bie wan Dohbie for proving that Gov. run programs including the US mail often end up being a hot, bloated mess.
129. Jeff Weimer:
Health insurance . . . It’s almost like a Ponzi scheme. Except that it’s legal. Again, it’s our legislators fault.
“And you want our legislators to fix it?”
Who else can do it? Themselves?
132. jharp:
And in case you didn’t realize it. We are providing health care for all that you mention. Only the insurance companies are sucking out 20% of our expenditures.
Prove it, with references.
And just in case you think Pharmaceutical companies are in the same league, let me remind you they are on your side, for a promise of $80B and willing to spend $150M to push it on your behalf – unless Obama decides he can get more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html
So tell me again who’s in the pocket of “big business”?
132. jharp:
And in case you didn’t realize it. We are providing health care for all that you mention. Only the insurance companies are sucking out 20% of our expenditures.
Prove it, with references.
And just in case you think Pharmaceutical companies are in the same league, let me remind you they are on your side, for a promise of $80B and willing to spend $150M to push it on your behalf – unless Obama decides he can get more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html
So tell me again who’s in the pocket of “big business”?
144. vivo:
129. Jeff Weimer:
Health insurance . . . It’s almost like a Ponzi scheme. Except that it’s legal. Again, it’s our legislators fault.
“And you want our legislators to fix it?”
Who else can do it? Themselves?
YOU said it’s the legislators who caused the problem. Why would you want them to fix it?
Who is “themselves”, exactly?
Jeff Weimer:
“So tell me again who’s in the pocket of “big business”?”
Both of them. I’ll openly admit that.
That does not affect my stance that a public plan isn’t the best place to start reform.
And most democrats are behind it.
So where do we go from here?
The 10th Amendment to the US Constitution says, “”The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The enumerated powers in Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution are:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;–And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
NO WHERE IS CONGRESS EMPOWERED TO CREATE A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PLAN.
The US Constitution does explicitly states in the 10th Amendment, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The delegated, or enumerated powers, are, per Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution,
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;–And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
In short, Obamacare, or any national health care plan run, managed, paid for etc is unconstitutional. Period.
only for jharp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmbcyeZ9ic&feature=PlayList&p=A24726F7ABE1C759&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
…only for vivo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmbcyeZ9ic&feature=PlayList&p=A24726F7ABE1C759&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
…for everyone BUT now and then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmbcyeZ9ic&feature=PlayList&p=A24726F7ABE1C759&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
for BC only
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmbcyeZ9ic&feature=PlayList&p=A24726F7ABE1C759&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
if you watch this you will understand why the trolls are not to be fed.
there are links in u-tube to the entire interview with an ex-KGB operative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmbcyeZ9ic&feature=PlayList&p=A24726F7ABE1C759&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3gwwWbinDA
134. Jeff Weimer:
“What it DOES is, determine what plans qualify, and what they must cover, and what they must charge for premiums and co-pays.”
______________________________________________
It does no such thing you fool.
Do you honestly believe this is true? Premiums? Co pays?
Are you out of your mind?
this one is really scary. it may already be too late. this was recorded a while back, but it is relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAyLHSNKuQ0&feature=related
143. Delia:
Delia’s been watching the Daily Showwwwww. Good onya, Delia. He’s the best commentator out there, isn’t he. You closet liberal you.
153. Anonymous:
Still peddling that lunatic piece of empty, eh? Nothing but unsubstantiated paranoid conjecture. Then again, that’s what gave birth to the birthers, and the deathers, and Glenn Beck.
148. jharp:
Jeff Weimer:
“So tell me again who’s in the pocket of “big business”?”
Both of them. I’ll openly admit that.
That does not affect my stance that a public plan isn’t the best place to start reform.
And most democrats are behind it.
So where do we go from here?
Aug 13, 2009 – 7:52 pm
Yes, most democrats are behind it – but fewer independents (daily they drop) and even less Republicans are in favor of your proposal.
Where DO we go from here? your Singapore suggestion from yesterday is intriguing – to a point. It’s much better than HR 2300.
And why is one industry group okay, but another is not?
158. Now and Then:
“You closet liberal you.”
lol!
Hey, no◦◦◦ name calling! ;p
jharp is evidently clueless. His arguements don’t make sense. He’s a bore and twists words. I think Obama himself is commenting on here!!
156. jharp:
134. Jeff Weimer:
“What it DOES is, determine what plans qualify, and what they must cover, and what they must charge for premiums and co-pays.”
______________________________________________
It does no such thing you fool.
Do you honestly believe this is true? Premiums? Co pays?
Are you out of your mind?
Yes it does, not by specific dollar amount maybe, but it gives a government panel the right to determine what qualifies – read the bill. Here it is: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
I’m not going to give you anything more, just because you irritate me.
Don’t ever call me a fool again. I. Will. Eat. You. Alive.
159. Now and Then:
What’s your opinion of 9/11 truthers?
Well, isn’t this quite the cute.. He CONSCIOUSLY discriminates against and violates the CIVIL RIGHTS of untold thousands of persons with disabilities (PWDs) and then he da-HARES to pull this..?
Am saying “consciously” because he had some just shy of 200 of PWDs and their supporters arrested back the end of April of this year while they protested in front of the White House.. It hasn’t quite caught on but the term he is now guilty of allowing to continue is SEGREGATION.. He made a CAMPAIGN PLEDGE to help institute the Community Choice Act and then, shock of shocks, reneged after he got himself elected.
Yeah, he’s got, oh, ho, ho, BIG ‘UNS to try this garbage right now..
What’s that email addy again..?
Hypocrisy@WhiteHouse.gov, wasn’t it..?
To whomever Anonymous was at #139:
I’m still waiting to hear what article or amendment of the US Constitution states citizens have a RIGHT to health care?
The first thing that comes to my mind when hearing President Obama’s speach was (in my best Inigo Montoyo accent) “You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.”
Just because they are catch phrases that have been good to conjure with for decades does not mean they can be shoe horned into any argument that you are loosing and they will still make sense. They are important words for what they mean not when they are tortured into a form that they do not fit.
…generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: [It] says what the states can’t do to you, says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. (BO, January 2001)
The crowd in DC doesn’t get that our Constitution is founded on the notion of natural, inalienable “rights” and that government exists (solely) to insure or guard those rights.
Barack Obama, apparently, labors under the misguided and inaccurate view that the federal government can go beyond that single task and dream up some additional government provided positive(?) rights.
Why, here’s one of Barack’s government provided, positive rights now…(from an article in the WaPo)
“Section 1233 (of HR3200) goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don’t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.”
[In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free. -- Edward Gibbon ]
#79 Marklar
“I would love to see a real honest-to-God debate. But that will never happen so long as the birthers and deathers and the rest of the nutcases continue to believe that screaming at people and hijacking a public forum is a legitimate form of debate.”
Ah yes. A well-thought-out and courteous debate with two sides calmly trying to reach the truth…about an 1100-page proposal of monumental costs and complexity in a President-inspired three-week time period.
Marklar, Marklar, Marklar. Beelzebub, Beelzebub, Beelzebub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnjxgE7Hlqg
# 30 Bart:
1. You are absolutely right about how the commie system worked: separate health care for the masses and the apparat/the elites–that was one of the reasons to become a member of the apparat, after all. And the division was not limited to health care; it encompassed every aspect of life. A “workers’ paradise” indeed.
2. You can’t deny how deeply embarassing that article about the UK and Hawking in the usually remarkable Investors’ Business Daily is. It’s not just the pathetic ignorance that struck me; the entire article is a poorly argued rant that feeds directly into the left’s accusations of “scare tactics.” No wonder the article has been answered with equally imbalanced rants about the U.S. in the U.K. press, including the balanced kind.
It reinforced the widespread notion of Americans’ arrogance in trying to claim every scientific genius as their own.
All in all, a sorry affair.
I’m astounded posters use the L.A. Times, HuffPo, San Francisco Examiner, et al.
Hey Shadow, did the L.A. Times op-ed article you’re referring to, is it before or after more L.A. pressing matters: how L.A. will pay for Michael Jackson’s funeral OR how the 8th strongest economy in the world was taken down by liberals, progressives and rinos in record time?
In fact, it isn’t extreme to find parallels between the current American government’s attempt at increasing its monopoly through a healthcare grab and the agenda of National Socialism.
The Nazis being…for abortion and euthanasia of the infirm and undesirable – and, of course, for cradle-to-grave nationalized healthcare. (from sweetness-light.com)
Andrew McCarthy, always insightful…
Why shouldn’t socialized medicine prompt comparisons to National Socialism?
Obama never worked for a dollar in the private sector all his life.
So he never had the kind of employer provided private insurance coverage that allows for pre-existing conditions.
As with Obama’s (the hell with the facts/let’s assume discrimination)comments about James Crowley, our good President doesn’t have his facts straight.
Droning on and on about things he is generally ignorant of has gotten tiresome far as I’m concerned.
It’s also a riot how Obama and his charges have decided they don’t want to explain the details of ObamaCare.
They’ve made a strategic decision to avoid doing that by beginning a diversionary attack scapegoating those big bad insurance companies, of which in the 1990′s Obama owned millions of stock shares.
Notice also the trumped up facts Obama uses to prove his point that 12 million people over the last three years were denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
Whoops.
Now that I check back I see Obama didn’t say that, obviously because his lawyers advised him not to say that.
It would have been another lie.
And he’s made too many of those already.
From pledging that no earmarks would be in his administration to promising unemployment wouldn’t go over 8% if the money down a sink hole stimulus bill was passed.
(But back to the pre-existing conditions example of misleading statements.)
Like a snake oil salesman, Obama doesn’t say people were denied coverage.
He says 12 million people were discriminated against. How? He doesn’t say. Why?
What a strange inappropriate word to use.
Discrimination instead of “were denied coverage”.
The word, “discrimination”, has racial overtones, surely isn’t on point when talking about pre-existing conditions and insurance companies.
If it sounds like the brown eyed handsome man is engaging in kooky talk, it’s because he is.
On purpose, he’s talking apples and oranges. And only his lawyers know what he’s really talking about.
It’s what amounts to be another bold, brazen, attempt example of Obamanistic disingenuousness.
Know what? Private healthcare isn’t sick.
The Obama administration is sick.
And I’m sick and tired of hearing their lies and half truths, and their heavy breathing hopes of getting 17% of the economy under their thumbs.
Just think of the jobs that can be doled out being head of that kind of deal. It’d be like being head of 100 oil companies.
Power and money. That’s what this lame as a noodle president has on his little mind.
Don’t kid yourself. What Obama cares so much about isn’t the the American people’s well being and health.
This is about his own sick fixation on power and wealth.
To quote Obama : look at Fed Ex and UPS Cos are doing well .
The Postal Service isn’t ? Huh ?
Fed Ex and UPS are Private Cos…..Duh !
The Postal Service , Freddy & Fanny , Ginny Mac , AMTRAC , Medicaid, Medicare , Social Security ,The VA are all broken and our economy are dead broke . The Stimulus Trillion dollars didn’t work ,,,,,, unemployment grew and no credit loans were made by Banks that got 750 Billion dollars
So now the left and Obama want to manage 310 Million Health care Womb to Tomb and give up a Carbon Credit TAX …..
B/S !
Rachel Peepers, #173: “Obama never worked for a dollar in the private sector in his life.” So he’s disqualified? Ah, then, you’ll want all those loudmouth retired NCOs and Chief Petty Officers who clog the comments here and at FR to shut up too. They have never worked for the private sector, and love to spend their cushy retirements drinking beer on the taxpayer’s dime and yapping about “free enterprise” despite the fact that they know nothing about it. They benefit from a socialist medical care, too, just like Obama.
Racheal Peepers:
I looked up Delusional Disorders in teh standard textbook of psychiatry by Kaplan and Sadock.
“The diagnosis of delusional disorder is made when a person exhibits nonbizarre delusions of at least one month duration that cannot be attributed to other psychiatric disorders…Nonbizarre means that the delusion s must be about situations that can occur in real life, such aas being followed .. that is they usually have to do with phenonmena that , although not real, are non the less possible…A slight preponderence of femals exist. . They are sometimes litigious”
You might want to get yourself checked out. There is treatment available
..
175. Shef Rogers wrote:
Ah, then, you’ll want all those loudmouth retired NCOs and Chief Petty Officers who clog the comments here and at FR to shut up too. They have never worked for the private sector, and love to spend their cushy retirements drinking beer on the taxpayer’s dime
Peter writes: A comment from someone who OBVIOUSLY has never actually met someone who served in the military.
Because those of us who have and have actually served know that the average military retiree goes on to a second career, 90% of the time in the private sector, sometimes even going on to create their own businesses.
3/4 or more of the people I work with (for a privately owned, publicly traded company based in Plano, TX) are retired military, mainly Navy. Most will work in this job or ones similar for an additional 10 to 20 years beyond the 20 to 30 they spent serving their country.
Of the few military retirees who actually retired when they got out of the service I have heard of, most either returned to work because simply “drinking beer on the taxpayer’s dime” as you put it is too boring or wind up dying unexpectedly early because something in them could not successfully make the transition from military to civilian life.
And one last comment about your “on the taxpayer’s dime” comment. Military retirees in no way live off the taxpayer’s dime. They earned ever cent they receive for the exceptional service they performed protecting this country and the people like you who refuse to do so. Until you have spent 20 years serving in the military (and I have doubts you would last 6 months), you can’t make comments about what they have or have not earned.
Obama’s having trouble remembering all his lies. Any time he speaks about details, he trips himself up with more lies.
# 175 Shef Rogers:
I don’t know if working in the private sector makes the difference between a good political leader and a bad one.
What is clear is that Obama was handed everything on the plate of affirmative action and never had to struggle for a livelihood. Community organizer?? Professor of constitutional law?? He can’t articulate anything meaningful and intelligent without the script and the phony oratorial incantations.
He’s no different from the “privileged, capitalist whites” like the Kennedy and Rockefeller clans. On the contrary, he emmulates them in everything he does. There’s no real distinction between Obama and that poor, pathetic soul, the super-rich Caroline Kennedy, who thought she was entitled to represent the “disadvantaged” and the “disposessed” by birth right, but couldn’t articulate a single coherent thought despite all her degrees. Obama, by virtue of his “race” –a privileged group, safely ensconced in the Ivy League schools, like “Skip” Gates–thinks he’s entitled to lord over the rest of us.
Rosenberg you have no understanding of the civil rights movement, nor what predicated it. Unconstitutional laws in the South created a scheme where employers and the state literally stole from African Americans for a hundred years. To simply end these practices without addressing this reality is the biggest failure, not of the civil rights movement, but of American democracy and constitutional law. Southern states had deliberately impoverished black constituencies, had indeed taken Federal dollars for state services based on the total number of the population, but had only given those services to whites. Whites had enjoyed an artificial economy based on apartheid for a hundred years. This is the injustice that Obama was referencing, and its an inference that anyone even remotely knowledgeable about American history would make when noting the phrase “I’d be okay, but the Supreme Court never entered into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.”
If you think that’s just, if you don’t think it was a failure in not addressing that issue, then the constant stream of bigotry that passes for the comments section at Pajamas Media seems completely at home with the writing.
Wow, for a minute I thought #4 was sarcasm. Apparently not. We have a “ruler” now, do we? Well sic semper tyrannus.
Why stop at Health care? Food and housing are certainly more fundamental to existence than mere health care. Maybe the government should just issue those for us as well. And since Equality is paramount, we will have all have to live in concrete boxes, each the same as the one next to it, and make the same wages, with the doctors making as much as the cleaning ladies.
Oh, wait, I already visited Moscow in 1981. Never mind.
147. Jeff Weimer:
“144. vivo: 129. Jeff Weimer:
Health insurance . . . It’s almost like a Ponzi scheme. Except that it’s legal. Again, it’s our legislators fault.
“And you want our legislators to fix it?”
Who else can do it? Themselves?
YOU said it’s the legislators who caused the problem. Why would you want them to fix it?
Who is “themselves”, exactly?”
The only people who can create and change laws are legislators. They mess up, but they can fix too. It’s their chance now.
By ‘themselves’ I meant the insurance companies. They can create their own rules, but they are obviously mostly in their own favor, not the consumer.
152. Anonymous:
Didn’t you see my posting on this guy’s article elsewhere? Obviously you don’t know how these Russians play with YOUR mind. And I think this guy deleted my last comment on his article. Heard the term ‘masters of disinformation’?
Pretend that on the coffee table, the greatest country on earth is a jigsaw puzzle with almost all the pieces fitting nicely together. This imbecile who hates many of the things about the country comes along and intentionally knocks the table over dislodging many of the painstakingly configured, handcrafted pieces that have taken over 200 years to assemble.
This is in metaphorical terms what Barack has done since he took office.
Now it’s time to politically take Barack apart, piece by piece.
We are in a democratic country. Luckily, one voice does not make change, it takes loud rally cry for any changes to be made. The only fallacy to this argument is what happens with one person has a democratic house & senate behind him — they get more passed then they should.
185. Vacant Home Insurance:
u hd ur chnce 4 8 yrs.