Obama and the Politics of Personal Destruction
The president and his party are in a fix.
At their moment of great political ascendancy — when they control both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue and a recession has rocked faith in free market capitalism — they still can’t get the country to go along with their big government schemes.
Each day brings a new batch of bad polling news for the president. The public is wary of his spending, is convinced he is too liberal, and doesn’t much care for ObamaCare. Meanwhile, the speaker of the house has Dick Cheney-like poll numbers and the Democrats’ generic poll numbers have slid.
Under such circumstances, the only reasonable thing to do is attack the voters and the Republican Party. That at least seems to be the conclusion reached by the Obama White House, which now is convinced that smearing citizens who bother to come to town hall meetings and painting their opponents as intransigent critics of all reform — or as fruitcakes — are the keys to success.
And from Obama himself, the once presidential candidate who wanted to have civil discourse and get beyond name calling, the message to his critics is: “get out of the way.” Anyone who disagrees with ObamaCare is now a crank, a stooge, or an obstructionist. Even the Washington Post editors have had quite enough of the “round-up-the-usual-suspects demagoguery.”
The White House’s attempt to paint ordinary citizens who come to speak out against ObamaCare as pawns of the insurance industry takes on a comical air when one considers the president’s own background and tactics. As Charles Krauthammer remarked:
There is a certain irony in an administration denouncing ordinary Americans who get together to express what they believe and to confront authority, when that administration is led by a man who began his career as a community organizer, whose job, as I understand it, is to take ordinary Americans, get them together to express what they believe, and express demands against the authorities.
So it’s unbelievably hypocritical. And, of course, as we just heard, this only happens when you have a conservative protest. It is called a mob. If it’s a liberal protest, it is called grassroots expressing themselves.
Remember, just a year ago under the Bush administration, dissent was the highest form of patriotism. And today it is a kind of either organized anger, it’s a facsimile of anger, it’s unpatriotic, it’s whatever.
Ultimately, the “blame the voters” tactic is self-defeating, if not downright embarrassing. The White House can’t demean the voters whose support they need. They must persuade and engage, not spy on and smear the town hall attendees.
So “Plan B” is the old White House standby: argue that Republicans are opposed to even the idea of reform and are fringe radicals verging on being threats to America. Obama persists in telling crowds that Republicans are in favor of the status quo and against giving health care to the poor or uninsured. Of course, Sen. Jim DeMint, Rep. Paul Ryan, and Rep. Tom Price have all suggested reforms which aim to reform the health care system, provide all Americans with tax credits to buy insurance, promote insurance competition, and reduce unneeded medical expenditures by reforming the tort system. But the president persists.
Alternatively, the president’s spin-squad (i.e., the mainstream media) has decided to take up the fringe conspiracy theory claiming Obama was not born in the U.S. and run with it, in a rather transparent attempt to portray Republicans as lunatics — or even subversive. As James Kirchick pointed out:
It is not Obama’s right-wing opponents, however, who are devoting the most attention to this obscure, Internet-driven “movement,” if one can even use that label to describe such a paranoid groupuscule . Rather, it’s liberals, bent on portraying their conservative opponents as extremists — and changing the subject to help a President under increasing scrutiny for the substance of his policies — who are driving this story. …
Far from seeing these charges as any sort of real threat to Obama’s legitimacy, liberals report every outburst of the birther brigades with glee — because they derive maximum political benefit from stirring up the story as long as possible. Why debate the intricacies of a massive overhaul of the nation’s health care system when you can conflate principled conservative critics of the program with a bunch of nutty conspiracy theorists?
And that has been Obama’s favored tactic since taking office. There was the effort to “Limbaugh-ize” the GOP rather than debate the merits of the stimulus. Now the “birthers” play the decoy role while the administration flounders in the health care debate.
Will any of this work? In some sense, one suspects the White House is only making matters worse. They are behind in the health care debate, losing the message to their conservative critics. It is hard to see how using valuable air time insulting voters or telling tales about fringe conspiratorialists will help shift public opinion on a serious matter of public policy. It assumes the public has the unlimited capacity to be bamboozled.
Among the many myths which Obama perpetrated was the notion that he would lift the public discourse. But now, at their moment of greatest political peril, Obama and his enablers have nothing to offer but the politics of personal destruction.
We were hoping for so much better.
“We were hoping for so much better.”
Based on what?
Please stop calling Obama a liberal.
He’s radical Leftist who happens to be a Marxist/Communist and a black supremist.
There is nothing liberal about that.
I pray to God that Obama and his socialist thugs continue on their current arrogant course. I hope they malign the motives of the voters and I hope they continue to demonize the majority. I hope they force this socialist takeover on all of us. The anger will then explode for real and will make this nation ungovernable for Obama.
“In some sense, one suspects the White House is only making matters worse.”
Barack Obama and the Democrats have bet the farm on the MSM effectively propagandizing on their behalf. Thankfully, this is increasingly becoming a very dubious proposition. More Americans are now taking advantage of the alternative media—and videos easily found on the Internet. Do you, for instance, doubt that Obama only a few years ago advocated for a single payer health program? You now no longer have to take anyone’s word for it. Merely spend a few moments Googling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
The article writer falls straight in to the Dems and their lapdogs the MSM’s ‘libtard’ trap . Since when was it a ‘FRINGE CONSPIRACY’ merely to ask for transparency (as Obami himself PROMISED) and production of scores of HIDDEN documents ? Seems the writer has the same problems with logic and reverse morality people who ASK for information are not part of any CONSPIRACY it is people who HIDE the information who are CONSPIRING TO DECEIVE. Now if the Obamanation HAD produced a VERIFIED ORIGINAL Vault Birth Certificate and people then continued asking you would have a point but this is not what has happened a COLB is NOT a vault BC and is only an EXTRACT of SOME Vault BC information and no amount of diversionary tactics name calling obfuscation and well paid Lawyers can hide that FACT. I expect far better logical thinking ability from American Thinker contributors.
“We were hoping for so much better.”
While expecting all along, exactly what is happening now.
pResident IWon is not a leader but an agitator who is now flailing about trying to sell a pig of a program that the voters are just not buying.
stupid voters.
Don’t you know that we’re the gov’t and we’re here to tell you what’s best for you despite what you might think is best for you?
Well… yes, of course. What’s new about this? Which Alinsky rule is this? Sorry. I lent my copy to a fellow community organizer so we can more effectively be mobs.
As Charles Krauthammer remarked:
“There is a certain irony in an administration denouncing ordinary Americans who get together to express what they believe and to confront authority, . . .”
On CNN, (Senator) Durbin defended the White House’s new effort to track and rebut rumors about the president’s health care plan, following Republican criticism that the move was intended to intimidate opponents.
“What I can tell you is that the White House is not trying to collect names of any Americans. What they’re trying to do is post on some of these Web sites a rebuttal to some bad information,” he said, pointing to rumors that provisions in the proposal might be used to fund abortions, cover undocumented immigrants or raid Medicare funds.
“There’s so much bad information out there, you can understand the effort to at least let people hear both sides of the story.”
This method happens right here at pajamasmedia.com. Someone posts his views, then someone else will try to correct what he believes is erroneous.
So, what’s the fuzz?
Yes I do remember all of obamas lofty promises from the 2008 campaign. He claimed to be above the politics of personal destruction remember?
Hope and change , hope and change… We now have a White House that attacks its own citizens who disagree with its Marxist occupant. The dominant tactic they use is the politics of personal destruction.
I vividly remember the former Senator Clinton’s spirited defense of the right to disagree with an administration as being patriotic and a right of all citizens.
Where is that spirit now? It most certainly is not living in the white house today.
Step back and connect the dots. The obama administration is nothing more that a two bit dictatorship in the making.
Why is it that the reality of Obama in no way resembles the soaring rhetoric of 2008??
He lied.
Many of our citizens bought into the empty promises, like has happened time and time again over the world.
There is no difference with what obama is trying to do with what Hugo Chavez has done in Venezuela.
None what so ever.
The leftist will deny it, they always do as they slowly tighten the noose around your neck.
Here’s a link to the Washington Post for Charles Krauthammer’s health care reform proposal . Like most conservatives Krauthammer has tort reform at the top of the list. The recent modest tort reform here in Texas has already been shown to lower the cost of health care here. Unfortunately, Democrats get too much money from the Trial Lawyers Lobby to ever consider tort reform to lower health care costs for their constituents.
It goes beyond the orchestrated Democrat-inspired maligning of average Americans (politics of personal destruction). Now it would seem that besides the media spinning the coverage for the Democrats, Google appears to be censoring the debate.
President Thin-skinned just can’t handle criticism, the Axelrod memo was right. He can’t even handle dissenting opinions.
I won’t even go back to the birther issue and what that’s really about–Obama’s secrecy and belief that rules apply only to others. So he changed his name a time or two and had his tuition paid for by someone other than his family. And what was so interesting about his passport file? Eventually it will all come out.
I miss W–the man had shoes thrown at him and he ducked. But never whined. Oh, and the Dow was way up there too. Then. The good ol’ days. Sigh.
Well Written and organized.
Others on this site should learn critical analysis can take constructive form and content while delivering its punch.
Bravo.
Though they try to make it about targeting Republicans, they’re really targeting Democrats, and they know it. The Republicans couldn’t stop any bill in either House, so it’s “renegade” Democratic members who are the targets of this rhetoric.
I doubt it’s just the Blue Dogs who are feeling somewhat queasy right now, but even pols representing solid, longtime Democratic districts of old folks who are not too pleased with the thought that they’re going to the back of the line with regards to national health care.
I’m not talking about “death panels” or any such thing: I’m talking that it can be hard enough to get a doctor who accepts Medicare, and when everyone is on Medicare, the doctors would rather be dealing with the less troublesome younger adults than seniors. This doesn’t require any explicit rationing, just a feel for what happens when you’ve got to share an increasingly scarce resource.
So good going on turning old people off, Dems. Great political move. Younger adults don’t vote as much as the old.
Obama’s concept of “non-partisan” debate and politics is this: “everything will go smoothly as long as everyone else does what I say”.
He truly does seem to think that it is unreasonable for citizens of a democracy to disagree with him.
AMEN, I am so tired of hearing that because I am angry and more politically active than ever in my life that somehow I must be getting or giving money to the Republican party or being paid by insurance companies. I have grandchildren and I am damn angry at this bunch of thugs we have in Washington.
Ora et Labora
“It is hard to see how using valuable air time insulting voters or telling tales about fringe conspiratorialists will help shift public opinion on a serious matter of public policy. It assumes the public has the unlimited capacity to be bamboozled.”
Actually, in the Peoples’ Republic of Massachusetts, a majority of the public enjoys being bamboozled on a daily basis.
hmmmm…. Animal Farm comes to mind abut right now…
Considering that 53% of the registered voters voted in the last election and let’s give Obama 54% of that then he was elected with about 29% of the registered voters. Had just 3% more actually gone to the polls he might not have won especially considering that many Republicans skipped out all together in the election. His polls are dropping almost weekly and in some cases daily, and people are starting to tire of his constant presence.
While there could be some organization to those protesting these townhalls it is by and large people fed up with the policies and actions taken since Obama took office. The recession is far from over and I believe it is worsening and a report by Fox News quoting Gen. Stanley McChrystal that the Taliban is now winning and lately the losses in Afghanistan are at the highest levels since it started.
In 2010 I will vote possibly early and hope many the did not in the last election will also and those that did will now see if they did help elect Obama will change their voting habit because of what has happened since Obama ook office with a willing congress and senate.
It is not surprising that the Obama administration is resorting to these tactics of personal destruction. My fear is that the massive amount of frustration out there will spill over into some very real violence. If the Liberals in Congress keep ignoring and, even worse, belittling the people they are supposed to be representing, people will feel powerless and may resort to violence in order to be herd. This happened in the 1960s with the anti-war protests and it happened during the Iraq War, where far-left protesters were famous for storming stages in lecture halls or throwing paint or pies at conservative speakers (Ann Coulter comes to mind when she was assaulted while giving a speech at a university). Keep pushing people to the edge, keep calling them names and dismissing their concerns, and it’s going to be like walking into a dynamite factory with a lighted blowtorch. The Democrats must stop this, NOW. The debate is only going to get more heated the closer it comes for a vote and more of this name calling certainly is not going to help the situation. And, by sending SEIU union thugs to these town hall meetings to crack open a few heads, well, that certainly is NOT a recipe for success, either. The Democrats continue on this course at their own peril. They are so blinded by the possibility of passing their liberal agenda that they don’t care if they destroy the country in the process. And even if they do manage to pass this healthcare bill, they will certainly win a battle but lose the war in 2010 and 2012. Somehow, I think they will be willing to sacrifice everything, even their future, if it gets them what they want today. How low can people get.
I have an idea! Let’s let the Dems come up with their plan, the Republicans can come up with their own Health Care Reform, and then we let the PEOPLE vote on which version they would prefer!
If the law makers set about determining the actual number of people that do not have health care; but definitely should have it, the health care issue as a political football would go away.
One way or another both sides of Congress are telling the American people to kiss-off by keeping this issue alive. Hence, no one should be surprised when; after the recess is over a smiling gang of 14 emerges with “the plan that everyone can live with” and the problem is over.
One week after that we will be moved into the world of “there will be some sort of amnesty for illegals” in our country because the “economic consequences” of doing nothing any longer are too crushing, too dire and too severe if we don’t.
With a little help from one of our own on the Supreme Court it is time for Hope and Change to keep on rolling; right over top of what’s left of America.
That begs the question, “Who isn’t practicing the Politics of Personal Destruction?”
Hope and change was a farce. Blame insurance, blame voters, blame President bush. These are all defelctions. We have an insecure leader that can’t carry accountibility.
“It assumes the public has the unlimited capacity to be bamboozled.”
Well as P.T. Barnum once said…….. “There is a dimocrat born every minute”
Ms Rubin, please remember the old military maxim: never interrupt your enemy when he is in the middle of making a strategic error.
The Obama camp and its supporters resemble a horde of vicious, rabid little vermin. Fortunately, they lack discipline and they are revealing their true nature. Their actions show them to be the opposite of everything they claim to be. Even the sheep and ostriches that bought into Obama’s platitudes and voted him into office cannot help but notice their ugliness. These are bad people we’re dealing with here. Only a delusional fool would give them the benefit of the doubt from now on.
As Charles Krauthammer remarked:
“There is a certain irony in an administration denouncing ordinary Americans who get together to express what they believe and to confront authority, . . . ”
On CNN, (Senator) Durbin defended the White House’s new effort to track and rebut rumors about the president’s health care plan, following Republican criticism that the move was intended to intimidate opponents.
“What I can tell you is that the White House is not trying to collect names of any Americans. What they’re trying to do is post on some of these Web sites a rebuttal to some bad information,” he said, pointing to rumors that provisions in the proposal might be used to fund abortions, cover undocumented immigrants or raid Medicare funds.
“There’s so much bad information out there, you can understand the effort to at least let people hear both sides of the story.”
Pajammers do this all the time.
So, what’s the fuzz?
The irony of Ms Rubin deservedly criticizing the Democrats for attacking those who oppose the government takeover of health care at the same time as she attacks those who demand to see original qualifying documentation is apparently lost on her.
At their moment of great political ascendancy — when they control both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue and a recession has rocked faith in free market capitalism — they still can’t get the country to go along with their big government schemes.
One of the problems all proponents of “big government” around the world face is that the technologies of the Information Age are “decentralizing” technologies that empower individuals, whereas “big government” is a “centralizing” ideology. This creates a tension that I think shows up in those polls about the wariness of running the country from one location, Washington, DC. Looked at historically, the “high point” of centralized government was the mid-60s, when the government owned almost all of the computing power in the country and the ability for private individuals to communicate via computer networks was almost nil. Those days are over and Obama and other “big government” types are fighting the tide of history and will lose, in the same way that the Soviets lost their battle to save their centralizing schemes and, on a smaller scale, the Iranians are losing their grip on their population (notice how huge Twitter was during the Iranian protests? It’s a perfect example of what I’m saying. Also notice how quickly YouTube had videos of the SEIU beating, even though the local news didn’t cover the events?). Now, there’s no question that, even if my thesis is true, the transition will be easy or bloodless. Ruling classes don’t give up their power willingly. DC believes it has prerogatives that shouldn’t be questioned, but over time they will, as the Soviet leadership did, see that the cost of asserting those prerogatives will outweigh the benefits.
OK, I’ll give you your final line–we don’t want to sound like we wanted him to fail, after all! I’m not a columnist, though, so I can be a little more candid–I didn’t expect anything different (well, maybe a bit more caution and stealth) and so I think it is essential that Obama and the Democrats fail, completely and unmistakably. I don’t think the Republicans are ready to lead the country, but a complete discrediting of the Left is necessary before we can move forward. And I’m very glad that Jennifer Rubin seems to have made that her continuing interest.
“Avoid profanities *or* foul language…”
Or? What’s the difference?
I always kind of suspected that those “COEXIST” bumper stickers (which appear most often with Democrat party supported issues) really meant “agree with me and we’ll coexist just fine”, so this ‘dehumanization’ fits nicely.
Interestingly, the folks who spent the last 8 years touting their ability to diplomatically handle any international crisis (as opposed to the then cowboy president) can’t seem handle opposition from their own neighbors without resorting to name calling and violence.
Aw, shucks. Are they’re doing is just “telling an Obama”. What’s wrong with that? “Telling an Obama” is a catch-all phrase for lying, deceitful comments, and misinformation produced by the spinners of the Democrats. Examples:
Pelosi: “I see Nazi flags at Tea Parties.” Response: “Oh, she’s just telling another Obama.”
Obama: “You can keep your private insurance.” Response: “What an Obama that was.”
Geithner: “The economy is in recovery.” Response: “(laughing) This guy is just full of Obama’s.”
AP Expert: “Palin is just not able to juggle all her responsibilities.” Response: “Gee, what a vicious Obama that was.”
When a liberal or Democrat friend of yours complains about folks “lying” about Obama’s health care, just smile at them and say, “Aw, you’re telling another Obama.” Should make them feel smug, even.
Of course, The One is making the assumption that those who are speaking out against his attempt at creating a syndicalist socialist state (which is what it would be) are part of the 48% of the electorate who voted for his opponent last November. Hence, it doesn’t matter if he “alienates” them or not, because they’re the minority; as long as he can keep 51% of the voters, he wins. (It worked for Bill Clinton, twice, and he never even got to 50% either time.)
What he doesn’t realize is the number of people who voted for him then, who have changed their minds since. Mostly independents, but also Democrats, and even some Republicans who now wish they’d voted for McCain- or at least written in “None of the Above”.
They understand, now, that The One is a technocrat who is absolutely convinced of his own brilliance, who will not listen to any opposing view, who instinctively vilifies anyone who disagrees with him, and who believes that he can somehow apply the mechanisms of autocracy in a benign manner- mainly due to his own (self-perceived) perfection.
The fallacy, of course, is that he’s not perfect. Or immune to the natural human tendency to use power to punish those who do not perceive him as he perceives himself. It is always easier to lash out than to to change one’s self-perception; and political power makes it very simple to do so.
On top of all this, due to his life spent in (mostly virulently leftist) academic and political circles, he is utterly clueless about the real world, due to viewing it through the “theory lens” of his academic /theorist circles. Which explains his reaction to criticism; in his mind, he cannot possibly be wrong, because he is obeying The Dogma, and it Cannot Be Wrong Because It Is The Dogma.
The combination results in what we are seeing now; a President whose Presidency is in danger of self-destructing, and whose only conceivable response to same is to blame everybody else for his own shortcomings.
President Obama, meet President Nixon. And Presidents Harding, Hoover, and Carter, while you’re at it.
As someone who didn’t vote for The One to begin with, all I can say is, “I told you so”.
clear ether
eon
What worries me…is that the Dems may move on the first amendment. They don’t do well when folks get to hear other than MSM/liberal takes.
Fox, Limbaugh, and the net have to be targets. The FCC and Congress are (I think) bound to come after its “enemies”.
Did anyone really expect anything else from an Obama administration? Take a look at who is surrounding the man. Rahm Emanuel, one of the roughest infighters around and one who will not hesitate to curse friend or foe in order to get what he wants, is the guiding hand for Obama. The rest of the list is not any better. He has the most liberal group since Carter, maybe even further left.
I have been around for a long time and witnessed much. In my 65 years on this earth, I have never seen, read, or heard as much destructive narratives, initiatives, and deception as from the current administration and congress. Looking at all of the pent up anger and frustration of liberals who now have the opportunity, due to a perfect storm of stupidity by overconfident Republicans, to release them and in one year, remake the landscape of America is frightening. If the administration and all of its supporters and enablers are successful in their efforts, we will become a lite version of Soviet Russia or Germany under the Nazi Socialist regime of Adolf Hitler. One would think the MSM, the entertainment industry, and historians would be shouting at the top of their collective voices to avoid the pitfalls and dangers of the path Obama is taking this nation. But, no, these very people are the ones supporting his efforts, not issuing warnings.
The old axiom, “if you don’t learn from history, you are bound to repeat it” is manifesting itself before our very eyes.
Citizens, continue to shout, confront, and defend your right to express yourself. A modern version of the Brown Shirts, SS, and the KGB is very possible under the guise of “hope and change”. It can happen here.
I should add that, in light of my hypothesis about what is driving skepticism of “centralization”, it makes sense that the DC crowd would turn to “personal destruction” as a tactic. They can’t very well say, as could be arguably said in the mid-60s, “We are the best and the brightest and we have access to information you do not, so let us manage your lives from the top down” because that argument isn’t credible. Even the “compassion” argument is wearing thin on people, and justifiably so because it’s a ridiculous argument to begin with, since the idea that people who scratch and claw their way to the top of the Federal government are somehow more compassionate than the average person is ludicrous to anyone who has had even minimal exposure to large organizations and the types of qualities it takes to reach the pinnacles of them. The only arguments left are “Our opponents are dumb/evil/misinformed/etc.” When on the receiving end of these arguments, it’s hard not to laugh, although there is some level of seriousness involved when the President of the US demonizes you and calls his thugs out from the rocks under which they normally live. Ultimately, these arguments stem from these individuals’ fear of losing their status in a society that has moved beyond them. They have to make these arguments because all of the traditional justifications for their power grabs have been undermined.
Isn’t it interesting that the tactics used by MoveOn and the Daily Kos are now being used against the “community organizer” in chief? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The far left has shown the way to political disruption.
Once John Conyers said no one had to read the bill the fire was lit. Dependable liberal arrogance and total contempt for the American people is on full display.
Ultimately, the “blame the voters” tactic is self-defeating, if not downright embarrassing.
~~~~
There’s just something about obummer throwing the voters (probably including a number who VOTED for him) under the bus that’s just so . . . so. . . . predicatable? . telling? . . . confirming about just how thin skinned he is? . . about how NOT ready to play in the big leagues he is? . . How real-life example of “how to succeed in business without really trying” he is?
I think someone forgot to tell him how fickle the voters are, and it’s easier to keep them than to get. them. back. after loosing them. and (hallelujah!) he’s loosing them.
It has been my belief that if the nazi’s had managed to exterminate all jews, they would have had to come up with a new group to hate – a new group to be the focus of their rage and anger, becasue THAT, *hatred* of a group, was what held them together and without it they would be lost.
well, obummer is an agitator who know’s NO. OTHER. WAY. than “us (him) against them”. So, keep it up. Hopefully, the more nettled he gets, the more he’ll attack voters (who tend to get prickly when blamed) and reveal who he really is. This does fit into the profile of when the narcissist doesn’t get his way. Keep the pressure on him. His mask must be ripped off so the stars in the eyes of kool-aide drinkers will be extingushed.
“Among the many myths which Obama perpetrated was the notion that he would lift the public discourse. But now, at their moment of greatest political peril, Obama and his enablers have nothing to offer but the politics of personal destruction.”
and, he’s trying to turn America into Chicago!
The Prickly President is becoming annoyed with us. Ah Oh! Better get out of the way!
The pithy platitudes sure did melt away quickly, once Obama transformed himself from community organizer into the ultimate establishment insider. Dissent — once deemed the height of patriotism — is now officially considered to be subversive, something to be quashed.
In very short order, the Kumbaya crap has melted away, and been supplanted by a “my way or the highway” approach. And, in an absurd attempt to control perception, Obama and other Dems want us to believe that it is the protesters who are are the bullies. As you point out, however, the public isn’t buying it.
See: A Mob[ster] Mentality http://emmeffemm.com/id171.html
It is beginning to appear that, in the current case, the protestors have a mirror to reflect the personal destruction beam back onto Obama and the Dems.
I loved it when Mouthpiece Gibbs said people were acting like six year olds (there usually are a few six year olds in the crowd) and that you should act like you mother told you (funny since the crowd is peppered with moms concerned about healthcare). That these protestors look like they could stop by the mall on the way home without raising an eyebrow seems to bother the Dems. All these observations say more about the observer than the observed.
21. Peter the Bubblehead:
“I have an idea! Let’s let the Dems come up with their plan, the Republicans can come up with their own Health Care Reform, and then we let the PEOPLE vote on which version they would prefer!”
And the same on abortion? Stem cell research? War? I’m not sure you’d like the outcomes of that. Besides, we don’t live in a democracy.
I spent 2 years as one of the “good guys” in Vietnam and a lifetime as a member of the “silent majority”. I always wondered what it was like to be on the other side as a vietcong or a hippie. My opportunity has finally come. FEAR ME OBAMA!
Demonizing the opposition is straight out of David Axelrod’s playbook. He tried the same stuff on the Sunday talk show circuit just prior to the April 15 tea parties, painting tea partiers as marginal whack jobs.
Saul Alinsky would approve as well.
RULE 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
It’s downright weird when Grandpa Al and Aunt Bertha are vilified as “un-American” by the likes of Steny Hoyer and his Taskmistress, Nancy Pelosi. (Nancy must whip her sundry lap dogs behind closed doors.)
Members of government have no right to talk about the American people that way.
Through the SEIU & other Union thugs, President Obama–along with Congress woman Nancy Pelosi & Steny Hoyer–are indirectly & directly attacking the American people. The Democrats, in the meantime, continue to unravel & fray at the seams. The Democrats cannot credibly claim the people represent insurance companies, Republicans, & even Nazi’s! All they are doing are crumbling from the pressure. The pressure cooker is going to get hotter for the representatives before all is done….
48 Seb Shaw . . . Last time I checked, union members were “real” Americans. Why would you want to stifle their 1st Amendment rights? Why do you hate America?
This has worked out for the better. I figured Obama would slowly go this way towards Socialism/Marxism. However, the man overplayed his hand and I couldn’t be any happier. He is done after the healthcare and cap and trade bust. Good job to the 53% of drones who don’t pay attention to history.
Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove . . . three stalwart and honorable voices for the right and the defense of civil discourse and family values . . . eight marriages between them. Is that personal destruction, or is it a simple fact?
Today Pelosi and Hoyer labeled all of those who dare speak out against Obama’s health care plan “un-American”.
We’re being told to shut-up by an American President, an American Speaker of the House and an American Majority Leader (all liberal Democrats).
Welcome to the USSA.
Extremism can win battles but is not a winning long-term strategy – the path that the Obamatons have chosen might give them a few more successes but in a longer prospective (next year’s election and further) will be a great liability.
Satisfying the MoveOnOrg, Daily Kos and ACORN types automatically repells the independents, camp which anyway is increasingly suspicious of what the real objectives of this administration are (leaving aside the price and means to achive them, objectives).
Self-destruction we should cherish -
Now and Then…Why not address the issue at hand HERE? Why not tell all the assembled posters why you feel it’s okay for senior citizens, vets, the disabled and concerned taxpayers to speak out and then be called UN-AMERICAN?
Why are we UN-AMERICAN for voicing dissent? Stay on topic if possible.
“(Axelrod) tried the same stuff on the Sunday talk show circuit just prior to the April 15 tea parties, painting tea partiers as marginal whack jobs.”
This was also around the same time that Big Sis Janet Napolitano, head of DHS, was warning us that returning veterans might be inclined to terrorism.
Do you sense a concerted effort from Obama minions to scare, intimidate, and dominate the American discourse ? (Even The Flu* is being used as a scare tactic, we’ll need to buckle down to government directives when it comes stalking us in the Fall !)
Do you have intimations of individuals who are at one with an agenda to re-make this country into something unrecognizable by its Founders ?
*Whatever else…
Don’t give that damn anti-viral Tamiflu to your children
What ALL the libs, especially the administration and MSMs fail to understand is the WE THE PEOPLE are in charge. We are the boss and WE are calling those who we hired onto the carpet (at town hall meetings and elsewhere) and voicing our displeasure for those employees ignoring our wishs and trying force legislation on us that WE don’t want or need. They’d better take heed of this “chewing out” because if they don’t listen, the next step will be termination of their services from WE THE PEOPLE!
But, are you ready for bloodshed? Can you kill somebody? I don’t think Rahm Emanuel or the Chicago thugs will bat an eye. Make no mistake, that is ultimately what we are up against now. That is what is next.
41. elvis:
and, he’s trying to turn America into Chicago!
It’s more like he’s got Detroit in mind and using Chicago tactics to get there.
Now 49, 51: Grow up! That is typical college under-educated non sequitor disguised as an attempt at distraction because debate on the topic is hopelessly out of your reach.
Go back to CAP or Kos for a better argument.
Nice try “Now and Then” on derailing the subject. Won’t work but nice try. You can’t shield the aristocrats in Washington from their own folly.
If you just try then tell your handlers that the bosses need to lay low or the whole scheme will come crashing down. One hint, most Americans think of themselves as middle class and have aspirations of bettering their and or their children’s lives.
They have to at least pretend to be on the average American’s side. However I just warn you that most Americans given just a little time can differentiate the truth from that soft rustling sound of wool being pulled down over their heads.
#58
and, he’s trying to turn America into Chicago!
It’s more like he’s got Detroit in mind and using Chicago tactics to get there.
RE:
hahaha … yes good point. the video here is what i was referring to!
Charles Krauthammer remarked:
“There is a certain irony in an administration denouncing ordinary Americans who get together to express what they believe and to confront authority”
Nothing but wingnut nonsense. No one is denouncing getting together to express views or to confront authority.
What is being denounced are the lies and misinformation. And the disruption of the town halls for the sole purpose of disrupting the town halls.
“It assumes the public has the unlimited capacity to be bamboozled.”
Apparently they do. How do you think these fools got elected? Why not stick with the democrat premise, that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. But who cares, because you only need to fool 50.1% of them on election day.
And all this talk about taking back the Congress in 2010, don’t bet on it. Don’t think so??? Do this: Go any place in the country and ask people what they think of congress. Answer: &%$@!. Now ask the same people what they think of THEIR congressman? Answer: He is great. He’s not like those other dirt bags up there. I wish we had more like him, and did I tell you about his wonderful family.
I hope I’m wrong this time, but I have seen this play out too many time. I’m not optimistic.
Are you still proud that you voted for Obama? Really? Cross your heart?
A good place to start combatting the politics of persoanl discussion would be to take a much more forceful stance against the term “teabagging” than we have so far. This seems to me the first time in American politics that a political faction has dipped into pornographic slang to devise a smear for its opponents–a smear that has nothing to do with the name it responds to (it doesn’t cleverly play off of the meaning of “tea party”–it’s pure smear, based on MSNBC insider jokes). The term should be banned as obscene on conservative websites first of all, and we should be asking everyone who uses it why they can’t separate their pornographic appetites from their politics. I’ll come back to this simple test: are there any other political nicknames for individuals or factions, however vicious, that you would feel uncomfortable explaining the meaning of to your teenager?
It’s true, that the high probablity that Obama will screw up at some point as use the term, and then get questioned by Jake Tapper (“what, exactly, do you mean by ‘teabagging,’ Mr. President…”) does somewhat temper my desire to ban the term. Still, even an immortal YouTube video isn’t worth this corruption of our political discourse.
I explained what makes it obscene in a comment on yesterday’s “Six Months of B.O” post and if anyone is interested they can find it or I can copy and paste it.
Do others agree with me?
My assumption is that Rahm and his enforcer-thugs can put a lot more pressure on wavering blue dog Dems, like threatening the end of their career advancement inside the party, than angry voters can on the outside. Don’t be surprised if the Dems vote to a man for health care reform, so called, no matter how much flack they get from the folks back home during the recess.
I’m not sure why this came up anon.??
#58
and, he’s trying to turn America into Chicago!
It’s more like he’s got Detroit in mind and using Chicago tactics to get there.
RE:
hahaha … yes good point. here is what i was referring to!
What is being denounced are the lies and misinformation.
Yes, all of those lies and misinformation about the “public plan” eventually leading to single-payer are just awful.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/290735.php
Another great example of the “decentralizing” technologies I mentioned in posts 29 and 37 helping to undermine the BS artists who would rule us.
Jennifer, I agree with you in content to a degree. Irony is an art form, if we refer to Job’s address to his friends, “ye are people, and wisdom shall die with you”, or Mark Anthony’s oration,”Honorable Men” courtesy of William Shakespeare: when we compare the great ironies of history and literature; the adminstration’s vindictive platitudes become nothing more than cliches of the mind.
Obama has embroiled himself in dramatic irony, a situation that relies not only on verbal irony but on irony of situation: when the principals do not perceive the irony but the audience does. Marc Anthony’s Address would be considered dramatic irony, except his co-conspirators realized the implied sarcasm.
Although sarcasm is direct and to the point, a direct instrument of indignation, in a sharp and bitter manner. Reminiscent of Locke’s satire, “If ideas were innate, it would save much trouble to many worthy persons.” The principal clause is sarcastic, but the word “worthy” in the supporting clause is the key that supports the whole sentence as satire. The word “worthy” used in the phrase WOG or Worthy Oriental Gentleman has been used as a term of derision, especially for educated men of color, for over a century, by the Brits. Of course the satirical phrase backfires, when one of the Wogs rises to a position of prominence; and the irony of situational or dramatic irony comes into play.
Obama could easily be perceived as a Wog intent on overcoming perceived and historical racial prejudice and succeeding solely on his identity as a minority. His dreams were met and he with the hubris and arrogance of instant celebrity status, set the stage for his own political demise in a classic example of dramatic irony.
He, nor any of the incompetent buffoons he has in his administration are capable of understanding or preventing the dynamic and inevitable sequence of events that are unfolding; thus the requirements for dramatic irony are being met, turning a drama and a man into an epic comedy and eventually into a tragedy.
Now in desperation, the empty platitudes are being thrown out daily and the masses are realizing they are only the pathetic cliches of an incompetent and clueless administration.
Re #32 KB…. I keep going back to this sentence you wrote…
“Interestingly, the folks who spent the last 8 years touting their ability to diplomatically handle any international crisis (as opposed to the then cowboy president) can’t seem handle opposition from their own neighbors without resorting to name calling and violence.”
Well said.
You guys are in grave danger…à la Col. Nathan R. Jessep.
From what I can gather, Dr Ezekial Emanuel (“God is with us”)
is a kingpin in the healthcare restructuring in the US.
He is Rahm’s older brother.
Wikipedia writes about Dr Emanuel:
“…public deliberative forums should decide which health services
should be socially guaranteed
(to) ensure healthy future generations…(my italics)
while services provided to individuals who are
irreversibly prevented (again, my italics)
from being or becoming participating citizens
…should not be guaranteed…”
Ezekial Emanuel is an Oncologist.
Regina Benjamin is a Family Practitioner – I wonder how her clinic’s patients are going to be scored.
Why doesn’t your mainstream media pick up on this?
I disagree with the last sentence of the article.
Nope, we didn’t expect anything better (or anything else).
Smearing any dissent is very typical of the communists.
And it will get worse, it does get worse every day. This morning Pelosi has called “unamerican” all the dissidents.
If they will have power enough (i.e., enough judges appointed, enough media under tight control) the communists who control this administration (and their internationalist puppeteers) will violate every single article of the Constitution (I mean, the articles that they haven’t violated already).
This president did sit for twenty years to listen the sermon of a preacher whose only target was America.
Hate for America is what he has in his heart.
Be ready for it: we MUST carry on an absolutely peaceful resistance to socialism, but the communists will answer with increasing violence. Count on it.
And read carefully the posts of the trolls on this forum, they tell you exactly ALL you need to know about the ignorant mobs, full of hate, that the commies can move and will move.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
“jharp:
Nothing but wingnut nonsense. No one is denouncing getting together to express views or to confront authority.
What is being denounced are the lies and misinformation. And the disruption of the town halls for the sole purpose of disrupting the town halls.”
How does it feel to have Alinsky’s tactics used against you? Now your side can feel what it’s like to be a conservative speaker on nearly every university campus in America.
See, a lot of us first heard about Alinsky during this election. We also learned that he was even the one who first coined the term “community organizing”. We also learned that Obama is a big fan of Alinsky, and even taught ACORN how to use his Rules for Radicals to force banks to make bad loans to people who should never have had them, and how to intimidate politicians into having the feds help them with that, which is the ONLY reason that we had the real estate bubble and the ultimate perfectly timed economic collapse. (Funny that, how a bubble that had been building for a decade at least burst just when the left’s own hero needed it to win an election, non? If it blows up two months earlier or two months later, it might not have affected the election, but with only 6 weeks to go?)
We actually went and read Alinsky’s ideas, and despicable as they are, we realized they worked. Now it’s a lot easier to recognize when we’re being played, and some of us have decided that what’s good for the goose…
jharp…If only you were right. Unfortunately, the liberal Democrats are against us speaking out at all. Just today on MSDNC, Contessa Brewer called an elderly man who had brought his handicapped son to a meeting “BOZOS” for daring to ask their Congressman about coverage.
This isn’t “misinformation and lies”, these are AMERICAN CITIZENS going to townhall meetings to tell their ELECTED (not appointed) officials that they are AGAINST Obama’s health care plans.
Here’s the “mob” that is doing nothing but spreading “lies and misinformation”. You know, those “un-American” citizens that Pelosi and Hoyer find so offensive…
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/09/video-meet-the-mob/
62. jharp:
Charles Krauthammer remarked:
“There is a certain irony in an administration denouncing ordinary Americans who get together to express what they believe and to confront authority”
Nothinthority.g but wingnut nonsense. No one is denouncing getting together to express views or to confront au
What is being denounced are the lies and misinformation. And the disruption of the town halls for the sole purpose of disrupting the town halls.
…you have confused sides again JHARP ..those are the tactics from the liberal/marxists.
why do you all insist on being poor winners as well as poor losers? …
…that was a rhetorical question jharp
So what happens when Obama really snaps and declares martial law to silence the dissenters? Will the National Guard and Military follow his orders or will they honor their oath? That is the real question as I think Obama will at some point spiral out of control. Likely in response to a dust up between some of his “Brown Shirts” in the SEIU/Union workers and upset voters. I hope it never happens, but its certainly not out of the realm of possibility considering the Won’s background and the statements of some of his mentors.
I guess Rubin has not checked the poll number for the Republican Party or it leaders. If you think Pelosi’s numbers are bad, take a gander at their numbers
#33. Good one! I’ll add one to your list–Oh, that’s just a pile of Obama!
jharp….Now I’d like you to meet the “dissenters” that the Obama administration is OK with (you know, the one’s that are the real Americans, not those pesky senior citizen, handicapped, tax-paying “un-Americans” that Pelosi hates).
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/06/how-to-dress-like-an-authentic-grass-roots-activist/
#33 Cedarhill-Good one! I’ll add one more to your list–”Oh, that’s just a pile of Obama!”
AZTeaPartier
Funny, I thought we had an election and you lost. A bunch of looneys shouting ignorant information at their elected officials do not constitute a majority. That is the way Lenin had his minions behave though
AThinkingPerson aka “Free Speecher”:
This isn’t “misinformation and lies”
“Just today on MSDNC, Contessa Brewer called an elderly man who had brought his handicapped son to a meeting “BOZOS” for daring to ask their Congressman about coverage.”
And this is a lie. Yes, it is about misinformation and lies. Exactly what you just did.
Ah yes, more of the “we had an election and you lost” BS from #81 who is conveniently “Anonymous”. Wonder if the election was held today if Obamination would win? Care to hasten a guess “Anonymous”?
You are now in the minority. You can thank your local MOB.
That’s right, Anon!
Because, of course, as everyone knows, it is completely illegal, treasonous and downright Communist (since when did the Left go McCarthyite?) to dare criticize the president, congress, or any other elected leader!
Because, as everyone knows, winning an American election bestows absolute power on the victor, whereas the losing side forfeits all right to freedom of speech.
/Sarc. Of course.
And, of course, we all remember how the Democrats went along with everything in the Bush administration, and never criticized anything, or anyone, during those whole 8 years!
/Again, sarc.
But, back then, dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Now it’s Communist!
My, have things have changed, with just one election!
And a question to Pelosi:
if the dissidents, after six months of Obama subversion, are “un-American”…what will happen after, say, three years ?
Will all the dissidents be “crazy” ?
Will the Obamacare system provide for the institutionalization of all the dissidents ?
Will the next stimulus bill (aka, “I hate America and I want to destroy the dollar”) provide funds for building massive lager-hospitals for dissidents ?
Thank you for the opportunity to comment
#77 -
You mean, of course, those awful polls that show republicans several points ahead on the generic congressional ballot?
Your comment would have made some sense last February.
I don’t really get why the federal government, steadily & relentlessly during my lifetime, has seen fit to progressively and insidiously inject itself into my health.
Nothing in the job description, aka The Constitution, allows for that.
When I was little, our not particularly wealthy family could easily afford out of pocket expense for routine healthcare. Insurance was for catastrophic illness/events.
It worked well.
I was just listening to a radio personality, whose name will not be mentioned
Takeover of healthcare “allows government to access every aspect of every person’s privacy”
“Hitler’s regime stressed government takeover of healthcare.”
“socialism is socialism”
If you combine these thoughts with Tommy Daschle’s notion of government rationing of healthcare, really, the Naziism idea is not a stretch at all.
And you’re telling me Americans shouldn’t protest this?
Who’s this “we”?
Krugman today.
“Probably the most important aspect of the government’s role in this crisis isn’t what it has done, but what it hasn’t done: unlike the private sector, the federal government hasn’t slashed spending as its income has fallen. Tax receipts are way down, but Social Security checks are still going out; Medicare is still covering hospital bills; federal employees, from judges to park rangers to soldiers, are still being paid….
In addition to having this “automatic” stabilizing effect, the government has stepped in to rescue the financial sector.
…without these bailouts things would have been much worse.
The point is that this time, unlike in the 1930s, the government didn’t take a hands-off attitude while much of the banking system collapsed. And that’s another reason we’re not living through Great Depression II.
..reasonable estimates suggest that around a million more Americans are working now than would have been employed without that plan — a number that will grow over time — and that the stimulus has played a significant role in pulling the economy out of its free fall.”
jharp -
Perhaps your experience of the leftist intimidation of speakers and violent suppression of free speech on college campuses is less extensive than my own, but I must inform you that an audience of concerned voters breaking out in spontaneous, raucous laughter at still another hyperbolically stupid response from a clueless congressperson in a town meeting – well, that just ain’t the same thing.
jharp (Re #81): Not a lie or misinformation unfortunately for you. Contessa Brewer is known far and wide for her hate speech.
Please, feel free to forward to time mark 6:22 for Contessa calling us “Bozos” for speaking out. Enjoy!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32359164#32359164
Now, please continue onward with your Obama talking points…
The right wing continues screaming and behaving like unruly children at townhall meetings, intimidating and shouting down elected officials and their constitutents, ignorantly believing that the First Amendment right to free speech somehow gives them the right to hijack one of the oldest American traditions just for the sake of obstructing health care reform and ginning up cheap political theater for Youtube.
It’s pretty pathetic that the right wing constantly whines about its rights and freedoms, but apparently does not believe that it has any responsibility whatsoever to consider the rights of anyone else, including the hundreds of citizens who for some stupid reason thought that they would be able to have a rational conversation on health care with their elected leaders without being screamed at.
- It is hard to see how using valuable air time insulting voters or telling tales about fringe conspiratorialists will help shift public opinion on a serious matter of public policy.
Jennifer, the motivation for this should be pretty obvious: it’s all they’ve got, so they’re falling back on what every career attorney/politician: If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the facts and the law are against you, yell like hell.
We hear a lot of yelling – especially in BHO’s recent speech – telling his opposition to back down and STFU. That’s what the media has been using against Bush and the GOP for the past 8 years. Guess what – it worked. So the thinking on the left is, obviously, stick with what works.
The point they miss here, living in their morally adolescent fantasy world as they choose to do, is that demonizing Middle America isn’t the same as demonizing Bush or the GOP. Now they’ve pissed off the sleeping giant and are scrambling to do damage control by focusing their demonization on a select “few”. It’s not working.
As for the notion that the insurance companies are funding astroturf activity against socialized medicine, the facts are available here. Health service/HMO organizations overwhelmingly supported BHO at a point when the only noises he’d ever made about socialized medicine were his preference to move to a single-payer system.
Gosh Dopey Person weighed in with his comments that were based as ususal on ignorance. I hate to tell him that the next election is not until 2012. Right now Obama is more popular than any Republican. Check the rating of the Republican Party. It has never been lower. Of course when you only listen to the wingnuts you think they are the only voice out there. Yes if a vote were held and only the wingnuts voted, oops but we have a democracy where the winner is determined by the MAJORITY of all voteres not the majority of wingnuts
jharp is kind of like the comic section in a newspaper, mildly amusing, but not very. And just like most newspapers, jharp is less and less consequential with each passing comment.
81. Anonymous wrote:
Funny, I thought we had an election and you lost.
Peter writes: And that one sentence sums up the entire trouble with the current DemocRATic party. They think because they won an election by a couple of percentage points, that it means they can jam whatever they want down the country’s colective throat and we’re not supposed to be able to say jack about it.
This is where they start to learn the rules apply the same to both sides. If it was good enough for the libtards to yell and scream about every Republican action during the eight years of Bush, then it’s going to be just as good enough when the conservatives yell and scream about every Dumbocratic action to tear apart this country for the (hopefully) four (or less) years of The Won’s reign.
AThinkingPerson aka One of the Mob:
“Please, feel free to forward to time mark 6:22 for Contessa calling us “Bozos” for speaking out. Enjoy!”
Only you posted “Just today on MSDNC, Contessa Brewer called an elderly man who had brought his handicapped son to a meeting “BOZOS” for daring to ask their Congressman about coverage.”
Contessa called you “Bozos” for shouting down and preventing meaningful debate, you bozo.
And she was right.
I usually refrain from commenting the posts of the commie activists that come here to spread their idiocy, but I must say that I TRULY AMUSED at reading all the posts of the trolls about the town hall meetings:
after forty years of communist intimidations and violences in ALL the schools and universities ALL over the country …all of a sudden the commies discover ” civil and reason debate”.
I think we should instead keep doing what the commies have done for forty years. Without the violence that has been typical of all the leftists, though.
By the way, last week we have seen again their idea of “civil and reasoned debate” when they have sent the union thugs to break the heads of “unamerican” dissidents (dossiers available at AtlasShrugs and M. Malkin).
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
94. Graham L.:
The right wing continues screaming and behaving like unruly children at townhall meetings, intimidating and shouting down elected officials and their constitutents, ignorantly believing that the First Amendment right to free speech somehow gives them the right to hijack one of the oldest American traditions just for the sake of obstructing health care reform and ginning up cheap political theater for Youtube.
At the very least, the “belief” (actually, the First Amendment does provide the right to discuss these issues in town halls. One man’s “hijacking” is another man’s “opportunity to discuss the implications of the legislation being considered”) is based on the Constitution. What is your “belief” that you have the right to shut these people up based on? Your own personal preferences? That and $4.50 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.
Hillary Clinton, God Bless her, has voiced her opinion that we are indeed quite all American to be voicing our dissent with the current administration.
Who knew Hillary Clinton would be on our side?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxmpTMGhU0
jharp….So I can put you in the same column with Contessa Brewer as thinking that free speech is now an outdated ideal now that The One has been annointed.
Check.
Who knew liberals would be the party to want to rid the US of free speech? Very odd.
93. AThinkingPerson aka One of the Mob:
I’ve been streamlining my research on a numbers of topics by leveraging harpo’s posts. Anytime that tool screeches something is a lie, I can be assured that it’s accurate.
Works every time. Every single time.
@100. Sherab Zangpo: – I think we should instead keep doing what the commies have done for forty years.
Exactly. If it didn’t scare the living crap out of the left, they wouldn’t be reacting to it with such unhinged, unfocused vitriol and hysteria – as Hoyer, Pelosi, BHO and their pet media are all doing.
Demanding answers from one’s elected federal representative is not “shouting them down”. Preventing them from avoiding the question is not “preventing meaningful debate”.
There has BEEN no meaningful debate on this issue, as witnessed by the fact that representatives claim THEY HAVEN’T EVEN READ THE LEGISLATION! How can they debate something they’ve never read? Rather, BHO has given his minions in Congress and the entrenched, Fifth Column media their marching orders and then yells at the opposition to back down and STFU. He attacks democracy and First Amendment rights further by setting up a ‘snitch’ line to report the names and statements of the opposition. This is straight out of Mussolini Italy or Stalinist Russia, and it is as far from “meaningful” debate as one is likely to get.
And how stupid does the left think Middle America is? I guess we’ll see, based on how far they try to push this idiotic demonization tactic.
94. Graham L.:
“The right wing continues screaming and behaving like unruly children at townhall meetings, intimidating and shouting down elected officials and their constitutents, ignorantly believing that the First Amendment right to free speech somehow gives them the right to hijack one of the oldest American traditions just for the sake of obstructing health care reform and ginning up cheap political theater for Youtube.”
Man I wish youtube wasn’t blocked at my work, I could give you many examples of just such behavior, and worse, from the left over the last 8 years. A few old news stories for you however.
http://www.foxreno.com/news/17397712/detail.html Read the last paragraph, it says it all about the nut-roots.
http://www.denverpost.com/dncsafety/ci_10302667
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/25/recreate-68-protesters-gather-in-denver/
Note the rampant condescension in the video linked above.
“We’re gonna let the American people, we’re gonna give the American people these choices, x, y & z…”
You’re right Schakowsky, this is NOT a principled fight
For the delicately nuanced Harvard crowd and sundry hangers on, this is not a principled fight at all.
It’s a fight way bigger than which doctor you get to see and what kind of “care” that doctor might & might not be allowed to provide you under government guidelines.
It’s a fight over liberty itself.
102. AThinkingPerson:
“Hillary Clinton, God Bless her, has voiced her opinion that we are indeed quite all American to be voicing our dissent with the current administration.
Who knew Hillary Clinton would be on our side?”
She’s trying to salvage what’s left of her presidential aspirations for 2012 or 2016. She see’s that Obamalot is headed for ruin.
Let’s launch a new political party, a centrist one called Replocrats (somewhere between Republicans and Democrats).
Commuter:
“I’ve been streamlining my research on a numbers of topics by leveraging harpo’s posts.”
Have you figured it out yet that a couple can file a joint tax return even if one of them had no income?
Or tax credits? Have you been able to wrap your brain around that one yet?
Kind of ironic how much you have learned from me, huh?
Who knew liberals would be the party to want to rid the US of free speech?
Are you kidding ? That has been the rule from the getgo, or at least since the term “liberal” has come signify the current crop of useful idiots.
In the world of the contemporary liberal/progressive, only certains kinds of pre-approved, politically correct speech are free. As for all other unapproved speech, government forces have carte blanche to squelch & persecute.
Which is exactly what you’re seeing being done by the “party in power” in Washington DC.
Presumably, the congresspeople who host these townhall meetings have rented the site it is held at. So, they are free to have disruptive individuals removed. What’s stopping them?
#109 Kathy
We don’t need parties in the United Socialist States of America.
As Pelosi said, dissent is un-American.
We just need to learn how to obey… PROMPTLY.
Congress has already learned to pass bills without reading them. Brilliant example of proletarian discipline and faith in the Supreme Leader.
We don’t need even elections, the Supreme Leader KNOWS what is good and what is bad for us.
And he is being helped by a Wise Latina who knows better than any other white, yellow, black or blue person.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
@108. Scott: – She’s trying to salvage what’s left of her presidential aspirations for 2012 or 2016. She see’s that Obamalot is headed for ruin.
That vid was from 2003, Scott.
But, that said, don’t ever count Billary out of this game. Ever. They are in it to win it, and for the long haul. It’s just their nature and it’s all either of them knows. They made that clear during WJC’s administration, and they are far, far better at the game than the rest of the clowns presently destroying the Democrat party. Clinton actually propelled and advanced the progressive cause. BHO is overplaying his hand and is now doing it only damage. That’s why his approval rating trend has stayed the same since the day he took office: down.
If not for BHO’s campaign finance fraud, and his minions cooking the primary, Hillary would be President today, and she’s never going to forget or forgive that. She chose to be part of this administration so that if and when the tide turns against BHO – which he seems very intent on forcing – she can claim she worked to stay close and do everything possible to prevent any real damage to the party or the country. See if she doesn’t.
Just remember, Hillary’s got your back:
“I’m sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we’re Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration.”
– Hillary Rodham Clinton
It’s great to see the focus on deception that precedes unlimited government, as opposed to limited government.
Don’t forget in the present situation: the Madministration’s healthscare program is the tipping point. It’s about socialism. It’s about violation of contract law. It’s about violation of the Separation of Powers act.
This tipping point is invaluable…BUT THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT HEALTHCARE.
We have to keep that in mind BECAUSE at any moment now, the Madministration is going to switch tactics and become patronizing and softspoken and inviting. If we don’t understand the connection between the TIPPING POINT AND THE BIG PICTURE, we may be deceived into thinking “we won”. THEY will win if they get us to stop fighting.
Even if they completely surrender on the healthscare front and take this bill off the burner today, IT DOESN’T MEAN A THING, except that our protests are WORKING, and we need to keep going. Now we know without a doubt (for those who are just seeing it) what these people are about.
Those who wish to deceive need those who are willing to be deceived. DO NOT BE PART OF HELPING THEM FILL THAT NEED. Please do not be willing to be deceived just because it’s easier. Tyrannies and dictators have always counted on people deciding it’s just easier to go along. We are a representative Republic, and since our elected representatives are NOT representing us, we’ll just have to represent ourselves. THAT is what King George didn’t want. King George obama doesn’t want it either.
Limited government is what personal liberty springs from. Extensive government ALWAYS limits personal liberty.
One of the Founding Fathers said that when the people fear the government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have liberty.
I want the latter.
“I miss W–the man had shoes thrown at him and he ducked. But never whined.” 12. Leighb
Ain’t that the truth. Class shows.
The 2010 cnesus will include persons illegally in the United States. This will give California and Texas more seats in the House and detract seats from several northen states. See today’s Wall Street Journal for more details. Bill Katz also has this report on Urgent Agenda. The main stream media will hide this awful fact. There does not seem to be anything that can be done about it.
105. goy: “And how stupid does the left think Middle America is? I guess we’ll see, based on how far they try to push this idiotic demonization tactic.”
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.
At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.
After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal’s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it’s valuables thanks to the local police department.
I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on Pajamas Media forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.
JHARP: Are you ever going to address those nagging rumors about your messiah? You know, those one’s about it either being Pay for Play or Gay for Pay with Lil Baby Barry and big Daddy Tony Rezko?
You know if Barry had been a republican these would be all over the puffpo, so I thought I’d give you a change to talk about it with an understanding audience! What’s it gonna be buddy?
The 2010 cnesus will include persons illegally in the United States.
Representative Michelle Bachman, R-MN, has publically stated that she will answer no questions on the 2010 census other than # of persons in household. No income information, race information, whatever else is asked for (under penalty of law if you don’t answer…)
The Constitution references a census every 10 years, counting people, not offering up a litany of personal data.
(over and out)
I was mulling over Steve Sampson’s comment, trying to fully appreciate and understand it.
And then, BOOM, it hit me.
I think there’s been a change that I’m now trying to wrap my mind around. Not an Obama BS change, but a real change.
When I was reading Sampson, for some reason, I thought of the movie, Pleasantville where David (Tobey Mcguire) and Jennifer(Reese Weatherspoon), two teenage kids, at home, during a fight over the remote control magically land in 1950′s television.
“They enter the black-and-white world of ’50s television, where the temperature is always 72 degrees, it never rains, profanity is never spoken, sex is taboo, there are no toilets, and words like “swell”, “gee- whiz”, and “keen” are part of the regular vocabulary.
David (Tobey Mcguire) is thrilled with the change in events. After all, Pleasantville is his favorite program. Jennifer (Reese), on the other hand, is horrified (“I’m pasty!” she screams upon seeing her gray complexion).
She wants to go back immediately. She doesn’t like the idea of having a perfect Dad in George (William H. Macy) and a perfect Mom in Betty (Joan Allen). But the gateway the two teens entered appears to be one-way, so they have to make do with their new world.
Soon, however, David and Jennifer’s “radical” ideals are bringing about changes in their environment.
Perfection begins slipping away. Colors start to dot the black-and-white vistas. Jealousy, anger, and passion make appearances. The stale utopia of uni-think starts slipping away.
For me, Obama and his supporters seem to want you to think that they always have a perfect vision of that perfect world, and live their lives trying to bring it about.
To me, Tobey and Reese are us. Vivo and Jharp and that bunch want us to think that they possess that knowledge of the perfect world they talk about and obviously want.
In the perfect Vivo world, there’s no racism, violence, lying, stealing, hate, hunger, poverty, inequality etc. Unfortunately, there’s also no joy, no freedom or free think, no liberty.
In Pleasantville, you never want to or should get angry, be stupid, have sex, or get caught in the rain, (which you don’t have to worry about because every day is sunny).
In Vivo’s world, us PJM’ers, independents, conservatives, moderate liberals are threats to the perfect world. We’re imperfect.
But, as Tobey and Reese start encouraging people to do the fun things, the bad things, like yell, have sex, argue, love, use bad words; in other words, live real life, then this black and white world starts finding pops of color.
(As we start freeing ourselves from the shackles of PC living, our world will change, too.)
As taboos are broken in Pleasantville,
grass turns green. Apples turn red. So do lips when women discover lipstick. It’s 5:30 pm and dinner’s not on the table. Trains stop always running on time. Kids jump in dirty puddles and laugh.
Then when it starts raining, Tobey and Reese’s friends get very scared. And Tobey says, “It won’t hurt you. Don’t be afraid. Look, get wet. It’s fun. It feels good.” And they do. And more color enters the world.
People, Obama is trying to make you believe he has the road map to Pleasantville.
That he can tell you how to think, who to listen to and what to say. He tries to separate black from white. His minions try to tell you black is white, up is down.
Niggardly Nancy says dissent is unpatriotic. The rich are bad. (does that make Obama bad?)
Put your faith in the government to control your healthcare they say. To live a righteous life, you must travel down the socialist highway.
You’ll eventually reach socialist utopia where everybody has health insurance. Where wealth is spread around. Where our biggest fear is to be called a white racist.
Where our biggest fear is being branded a racist.
Ask Jimmy the Greek. It killed both his career and him. Ask Imus. Ask Rush. No, don’t ask Rush. When they called him a racist for that Monday night football remark, he spit in their face.
Folks, I, Rachel Peepers, on this tenth day of August in the year of our lord, 2009, call Obama and his supporters…ready for a curse word…no. I think the better word is wrong.
Are they intentionally trying to mislead us? Yes. Yes. Yes. They certainly are.
My advice to you. Live, love, yell, fight, let people know what you think. Get out in the rain. It won’t kill you. Go to town meetings. Tea parties. Color your world, honest. Active. Genuine. Real.
Two weeks ago, I started to use the phrase, “slave media” to describe the biased media.
I wondered if anyone would pick up on it. Or maybe it’s just not a good descriptive set of words.
But I wondered if anyone would be afraid of using the phrase; the danger being somebody calling you a racist. I gave it to Hannity, to Rush, To Glenn, but nobody bit into the apple.
Not even Delia, the most courageous of us all.
Folks, this is Rachel’s world.
I see Vivo and his crew, Obama, Rahm, Nancy, Harry, Ayers, Rev. Wright, Bill Mahar, the view girls, Jon Stewart, NBC, CBS, Sonia Sotomayor, ABC the Times, Henry Gates; the whole kit and kaboodle of them as sham artists. Hypocrites of the highest order.
“I’m not like the men on your money. You’re arresting me because I’m black, you racist pig.
White men are inferior mentally as compared to hispanic women. The Black Panthers are so innocent of voter intimidation that we’re dropping the case”
I could go on and on and on.
Liars. Philanderers. Cheap shot artists. Scammers. Scammers of taxpayer money. Racists. Corrupt. Maybe criminally corrupt. But, above all, hypocrites.
And they’re not just hypocrites about racism. It just starts there. About ethics (getting VIP mortgage rates). Getting dirt cheap land prices from Tony Rezko, a criminal. Not paying taxes. Tim Ganthier. Kicking Trent Lott out of Congress for complimenting Jesse Helms at a birthday party while lauding the talents of Robert Byrd, former member of the KKK.
These Democratic socialistas belong at weekly meetings of Hypocrites Anonymous.
But they’ve done something that I like.
Because, when they accuse people of racism now, I think that it no longer sticks.
Many thanks to Sonia Sotomayor.
She is the racist of racists. She’s a racist on tape. In front of the senate nominating committee. 24 hours a day.
So what did Rachel do?
When I realized how the world’s changed because being part of such a racist, lying, tax cheat, hypocritical, dissent-is-unpatriotic administration, (not a typo, comma is on purpose)
a light bulb went off.
The Democrats hate filled evil ways have given me license to steal. Which I won’t.
But I will call a spade a spade. I will call the biased media what it really is. The slave media. I will engage in hate speech. Because there are things I really hate.
In particular, hypocritical politicians who are out to destroy our country.
People. No backing down permitted in my world. Now on to Washington. File the trip under the heading of time to take out the trash. No, instead, file it under this heading.
Time to take back my country.
Color your world free.
“That vid was from 2003, Scott.”
Sorry, youtube is blocked at my work so I couldn’t actually watch it…so I could only go on the comment.
SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.
There’s quite a difference in local regulations and socialists wanting to micromanage your life. Anyway, if you’re so fond of regulations, there are underground government bunkers with literally reams and volumes of regulations sitting on the shelves. Probably enough paper to reach to the moon & back
I have a theory that to the extent that Big Brother imposes regulatory schemes onto you, you’re less likely to take responsibility for yourself, whether you’re a business, an individual in the workplace, whatever.
The federal government is just people, you know. Frankly, I’d rather make my own choices than assign that over to the likes of Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy P, the great HairReed, Chuck Schumer…(I’ll get typer’s cramp if I keep up the list…)
51. Now and Then:
Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove . . . three stalwart and honorable voices for the right and the defense of civil discourse and family values . . . eight marriages between them. Is that personal destruction, or is it a simple fact?
Aug 10, 2009 – 7:25 am
Like your comment has anything to do with the Obama’s administrations
Marxist behavior.
When you can’t fight the facts of the issue at hand just change the subject of that issue… typical tactic of the left.
Oh, yeah, the ‘disruption for the sake of disruption’ meme from the Usual Gang of Obots.
If you were paying attention and/or had a shred of honesty, you little trollies would realize that your’re desperately projecting: shouting down, shutting up and chasing away are the standard libgoon tactics of ANSWER, La Raza and company. As is astroturf. Oh, the delicious irony of the Soros crew whining about ‘astroturf!’
Suddenly the Left doesn’t like community organizing. Tee-hee!
What the citizens are doing at town hall meetings, you liars, is *demanding answers* from their Congresscritters, not more doubletalk, spin and talking points. Are they frustrated and hostile? Why shouldn’t they be? People can take only so much of being treated like gullible idiots before they start getting offended.
I absolutely love the Lefties’ smug denialism. Having forgotten that they won in November as faux-centrists, they have assumed that they actually have a mandate for a fringe-left agenda…..and now are actually attacking and insulting Middle America for disagreeing!! Brilliant! What magnificent idiocy!
One little thing the Progressos seem to have missed- the very real unpopularity of the Bush (and previous) Adminisrations has produced not just a distrust of *GOP* government, but of *all* government. The public’s esteem for Queen Nancy and her court is somewhere between that for used-car dealers and Ebola virus. Yet they expect the public to fall in love with a Pelocchio-designed takeover of their very health (and wallets) by the Parliament of Whores? Fools.
So go ahead, Progressos. Keep on revealing your true contempt for the “bitter clingers,” the “flyover people,” the American people. Let them know what you oh-so-superior snots really think about them (and always said whn you didn’t think anyone was listening), but previously had the good sense only to express through non-officeholding mouthpieces like Untermann and Garofaskank. Yes, keep right on pouring pompous scorn on all but the 20% at most who share your fringe views- the rest of Obama’s voters fell for a bait-and-switch, and now they are very, VERY pissed off about it. And you’re pouring gasoline on the fire! Oh, the joy when Nemesis zeros in on hubristic assholes!
@118. Graham L.: This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock …
Was your run-on irrelevant thesis intended to respond to the fact that the left is demonizing American citizens now? If so, it failed.
Meanwhile…
The NOAA can’t get hurricane or other major weather predictions right even one year in a row. In the case of hurricanes, that’s AFTER the current hurricane season has already begun. The forecast for today here – based on NOAA data – was 95°. It might reach 85°.
The federal government does not PRODUCE electricity.
The federal government does not manage your local water supply.
FCC regulation of Television is one of the reasons network TV sucks so badly, and is so expensive.
All of the satellites launched by NASA were built by private contracting firms.
The federal government did not produce the food you had for breakfast.
Neither did the federal government produce the car you drove to work, or the fuel you used.
Etc.
You’ll get the point. Or not. Same difference either way.
For crying out loud the Republican party doesn’t even exist anymore! They don’t fight, they don’t know how to fight, and are so mooooderating themselves to be good butt-buddies of the left you can’t recognize them anymore. They would kick out Abraham Lincoln if given the chance because he was too Christian or too much of a fighter.
You can’t find any public evidence that the Republican party even exists as an entity.
Liberals are evil and they know it, and they can no longer live in the past where they could dismiss competition of values by laughing it off and having the media cover it up so it’s one tactic. Crying fire in a crowded theater, but the fire is anyone that disagrees with them.
I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on Pajamas Media forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.
Strawman. No one’s saying there are no such things as “public goods”, just that health care isn’t one of them.
114, OMG!!!!11 You mean Bill Clinton is orchestrating the tea parties? Why didn’t I see that?
/If I could be a fly on the wall, I suspect that I’d hear that neither Clinton is unhappy about the teabaggers…
“I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on Pajamas Media forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.”
You never did stop off at the DMV or MVA (which ever your state has) and request the personal information of the guy that cut you off on your way home for work so that you can Google him on Al gore’s internet.
Just because everything the government does is not a complete disaster doesn’t mean the private sector couldn’t do it more efficiently and for less money. Yes some government oversight is needed, however much of what you mention is somewhat specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Post office & roads for one and governing of interstate commerce. Providing people with health insurance is not mentioned or even alluded to.
Oh and BTW “Graham” – next time maybe you should consider citing the source of your copy/pasted nonsense. I mean, while you’re pretending to be so self-righteous and all.
What do you think will happen after the Democrats pass their agenda despite what the public wants, and all the polls show the Democrats losing the House and losing their filibuster-proof Senate, and come the day after the election ’10, the Democrats miraculously picking up many more seats with 150% of registered voters having voted?
Will the streets of this country look like Teheran after their recent election? Will Obama send out his “militias” to attack the protesters? Will the citizens fight back or roll over and accept the election results and the further destruction of the country?
126. goy:
“FCC regulation of Television is one of the reasons network TV sucks so badly, and is so expensive.”
Hmmm. The network television broadcasts into my home are free.
I haven’t paid a dime for them since I’ve owned a television.
Take another toke on the bong and try again. Something coherent this time.
Poor RP – her reality is a movie. Most of the rest of us live in the real world. But when you live in a fantasy world it is much easier to justify your paranoia! When that fails you can just make things up rather than examine the facts. But then again facts can be so confusing to pwople like RP
128. venividivici: “Strawman. No one’s saying there are no such things as “public goods”, just that health care isn’t one of them.”
So the Internet is a public good, but health care is not? Why?
132. Anon Y. Mouse:
“What do you think will happen after the Democrats pass their agenda”
The republican’s will remain lost in the wilderness for 2 to 3 decades.
And the right wing crazies will absolutely lose it. And a good number of them will end up in jail.
Actually, they do. At places like Bonneville and TVA, using hydropower and nuke plants that a private firm wouldn’t be able to get a permit to build.
In actual fact, by building these mega projects using below market financing, they’ve been able to create back-door subsidies that have benefited these regions at the expense of the rest of the country. This is generally not a good thing.
As for the troll, if it lives in California, there might be some federal electrons in the mix. In the NE, probably not. But the fact that they produce them doesn’t mean that the projects represent the best use of resources. Only a market can determine best use of resources.
- I haven’t paid a dime for them since I’ve owned a television.
LOL!! Right. Unless you’re watching the snowy broadcast from your local ABC affiliate using an antenna on your roof or a pair of rabbit ears, you are just plain lying.
Either that or you simply don’t watch network television, which would at least indicate some modicum of intellect behind your serial idiocy.
JHARP and SHADOW–Either Jharp just can’t do it or he’s scared to utter the blasphemies against his god… SO to recap… We’ve got a president who was either pay for play or gay for pay with Tony Rezko–pick one and let us know which you prefer.
Oh yes, and Goy–Good catch on Graham!
Thanks Calvin. If that’s true I stand happily corrected, although I’d suspect that – like most other public works – the actual project operations are run by private contractors. Either way, none of that justifies a federal takeover of the health care industry or lends any credibility to socialism, as I’m sure you’ll agree.
135
So the Internet is a public good, but health care is not? Why?
The original intent of the DARPA network, which was later commercialized by private entities and became the Internet, was to maintain defense communications in the case of a nuclear or other attack, so, yes, it was intimately bound up with the “public good” of defense.
125. Bohemond wrote:
The public’s esteem for Queen Nancy and her court is somewhere between that for used-car dealers and Ebola virus.
Peter writes: Sorry, Bohemond, but my esteem for the Ebola virus is MUCH higher than for Princess Pelousy.
The President betrays fear of discourse. He is President of the whole of the United States of America, of all of its citizens. He acts as though he is President only of those who agree with him. Those who do not, he deems selfish, ignorant and unpatriotic. Hence he attacks them. I doubt if this tactic will do no more than confirm those opposed to him in their opposition. However, no one should be complacent. It is freedom that is at stake, the right to dissent, the right of free speech. It is important to keep these issues alive for the rights at stake are fundamental to a free society.
135. Everett wrote:
So the Internet is a public good, but health care is not? Why?
Peter writes: Last time I checked, my internet service was provided by Comcast, a privately owned company. Not the US Government.
Likewise, I don’t see Congress pushing to Universal Internet. Do you?
Seems to me, if there is a demand for something, the private sector comes up with a way of providing it. That’s called Free Enterprise.
I will be attending one of the townhall meetings to express my criticism of Obamacare. I called the police twice ahead of time to make sure they will be there to protect us against the union/acorn thugs.
It felt kind of strange asking the watch commander to make sure thugs sent by the president of the united states, who are being paid with stimulus money, don’t beat us up for disagreeing with his proposal!
Today I called the watch commander of our local police department to ask for protection against acorn/union thugs, so I don’t get beat up at our upcoming townhall.
It felt really strange to be asking the police to help me against thugs sent by the president, and paid for with stimulus money!
136. jharp
“And the right wing crazies will absolutely lose it. And a good number of them will end up in jail.”
I take it from your reply that you will be pleased with a rigged election and the totalitarian state that will replace the Republic.
The funny part is that YOU will likely be sharing the same fate as the rest of us who don’t agree with your agenda, since other than serfdom, those in power will have little use for those who will be a burden on the state, another mouth to feed.
They only need a handful of propagandists and there are way too many to consider an amateur like you as having any value.
Umm… The internet is NOT run by the US government. The backbone is owned by an uncoordinated assortment of telecommunication firms. The final mile is owned and operated by an assortment if ISPs. Even ICANN is a private non-profit (that the UN’s been trying to get it’s mitts on). The closest thing to socialized internet is a few municipal wifi clouds.
The DoD lost control of the internet a long time ago.
Now that the liberal Democrats are asking their union thugs to come out in force at town hall meetings, we can be sure that violence will escalate. I await yet more video of union thugs in purple shirts roughing up citizens. The more the terroristic liberals show up to protect The One’s message, the angrier Americans will get. Yet another case of not seeing the forest for the trees.
This is way past Republican vs. Democrat at this point. We are now seeing the fight for soul of America from those that are trying to tear apart the very fabric of the Constitution.
Well, and passionately said, Rachel Peepers!
Liberal playbook for hijacking townhall meetings…
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2009/08/hcan-playbook-for-thwarting-town-hall-protesters.php?page=1
148
The DoD lost control of the internet a long time ago.
Yes, I should have made clear in my response that the current Internet bears almost no relation to the original, primarily as a result of the commercialization of it, driven by private capital.
AThinkingPerson:
“Now that the liberal Democrats are asking their union thugs to come out in force at town hall meetings, we can be sure that violence will escalate.”
II hope you are wrong but to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me. The Glenn Beck’s and the wingnutosphere have certainly done everything in their power to incite violence.
You are going to lose and your tactics will further sink the GOP.
And always remember teabagger talking point #1 The government has no business laying their mitts on anyone’s Medicare.
It looks like Obama is not only a failure on the economy, he’s apparently not a military genius either. Is it 2012 yet?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124986154654218153.html
121. rachel peepers:
The movie Pleasantville offers up a false alternative, both of which advance the Leftist world view:
Either you can purposefully aim for the good, and the important, but only at the expense of color — or you can live a whim-driven, trivial, but colorful life.
Color here is a metaphor for emotions in general, and pleasure in particular.
So in abstract terms, the writers of Pleasantville are telling you that you can either live a phony virtuous life without joy, or a real joyful life without virtue.
Consider how subversive this message is: no matter which alternative you choose, you end up losing something.
The Pleasantville theme is an anti-concept designed to drive a wedge between virtue and its natural consequences, making it impossible to even think of a virtuous joyful life.
If you’re looking for a liberty aesthetic, you should be looking in Galt’s Gulch, not Pleasantville.
151
I think it’s hilarious that the “playbook” simply asserts that the people showing up against ObamaCare are paid shills without a shred of evidence. Oh, wait, I forgot, the evidence is that they are “too well-dressed”! I wouldn’t trust these people to run a lemonaide stand, never mind my health care.
145. lainvestorgirl: “I will be attending one of the townhall meetings to express my criticism of Obamacare. I called the police twice ahead of time to make sure they will be there to protect us against the union/acorn thugs.
It felt kind of strange asking the watch commander to make sure thugs sent by the president of the united states, who are being paid with stimulus money, don’t beat us up for disagreeing with his proposal!”
Are you for real? One guy in one isolated incident gets thrown to the ground during a scuffle with some union guys, and suddenly your skull is in mortal danger of being cracked by ACORN?
I can only imagine the guffawing and eye rolling that went on at that police precinct after getting your second shrill telephone call demanding a police presence at the townhall meeting to protect your right to scream incoherently and disrupt peaceful discourse between elected officials and their constituents.
I can only imagine how much police loathe people like you, who go to public events with the intent to disrupt civil discourse and provoke confrontation, but then scream “victim!” and run to the police after someone finally pushes back against your harassment and belligerence.
Cankle: In lieu of your comments, we’ll put you in the “Favors free speech for all except Conservatives, Independents and Moderate Democrats” column.
I can only imagine how much police loathe people like you, who go to public events with the intent to disrupt civil discourse and provoke confrontation, but then scream “victim!” and run to the police after someone finally pushes back against your harassment and belligerence.
Now double that amount of “loathing” and you’re probably about halfway to how much they loathe people like you.
You liberals reading this should be reporting us conservatives to flag@whitehouse.gov. If you don’t then you are unpatriotic.
You should be reported for not reporting us.
149. AThinkingPerson: “Now that the liberal Democrats are asking their union thugs to come out in force at town hall meetings, we can be sure that violence will escalate. I await yet more video of union thugs in purple shirts roughing up citizens. The more the terroristic liberals show up to protect The One’s message, the angrier Americans will get. Yet another case of not seeing the forest for the trees. “
Hey, once you wingnuts started bringing loaded guns to these townhalls (http://www.dustytrice.com/?p=5449, http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/304149), it became abundantly clear who was responsible for the escalation in violence, and it’s clearly not the Left. I welcome and applaud the presence of union members to peacefully confront those right wing extremists who are stupid enough to carry loaded guns to a public forum with the expressed intent of shutting down peaceful discourse.
You can whine all you want about purple shirted thugs roughing up civilians, but when right wingers start bringing loaded guns to peaceful political events, your premise – that thuggish union members are indiscriminately beating up poor innocent conservatives who are just trying to have peaceful dialogue – becomes laughable.
And considering that the right wing started this delightful screaming match when it decided that shouting down elected officals and their constituents at a public forum was legitimate behavior, you really have no credibility whatsoever in terms of calling anyone else “thugs” or “terrorists”. Once you start bringing guns to political rallies to intimidate your opponents, congratulations; you’ve just officially entered Fascist territory.
The most frightening thing that the issue reveals is that our society has fallen to such depths of depravity that an America citizen cannot ask a simple question without being abused, slandered, libeled and maligned.
The urge by both sides to destroy those who simply disagree with them can only lead to disaster.
These days, Americans don’t seem to be able to debate anything with anyone in a civil fashion. Instead of allowing others to believe whatever they want, we always seem to go about trying to impose our own will upon others. Of course, if you don’t accept someone else’s will for your life, you’re No True Scotsman…er…American.
Jennifer:
“Among the many myths which Obama perpetrated was the notion that he would lift the public discourse. But now, at their moment of greatest political peril, Obama and his enablers have nothing to offer but the politics of personal destruction.”
Obama (and his “handlers”) have been trying to portray the image of a man with various desirable qualities, e.g. decisive, smart, calm, pragmatic, determined, eloquent… Why doesn’t Obama care about the increasingly apparent conflict between the image he would like to portray and his negative qualities that many have exposed?
A likely explanation is that Obama believes that his image is his most important political asset. He believes that image and rhetoric are the primary means to legislate and govern. Like many who are concerned with image, Obama does not care how his opponents perceive him, because he views their conversion to his idealogy as an intractable task. So he mainly cares about his appeal to those who support him.
Instead of practicing true leadership, Obama has patronized his opponents with great liberty. He does not grasp the logical arguments of his opponents, and that necessairly leads to the aforementioned contradictions, factual and semantic. How could he be so naive? Many do not consider him to be naive, because they may be confusing his eloquence with wisdom. I wonder if that charade will last much longer.
So why then, does Obama then resort to politics of personal destruction? Obama does not believe that his current behavior has consequences, and that he can extricate himself from difficult and contradictory situations. At some point, when confronted with failure, he will need to show humility. Unfortunately, for many issues, the country cannot afford to exchange success for Obama’s humility.
121. rachel peepers:
“In the perfect Vivo world, there’s no racism, violence, lying, stealing, hate, hunger, poverty, inequality etc. Unfortunately, there’s also no joy, no freedom or free think, no liberty.”
YOU said that, not me. It’s a nice vision, with more joy and freedom than your apocalyptic vision. You’re totally wasting your college money, maybe you should join the French Legionnaires.
As some of you have suggested, Obama is “thin-skinned”, far-left liberal and many other things…however, when our elected officials return from “vacation”,
… They will vote “YES”, and give him exactly what he wants. They have no respect for us. They dehumanize us as Obama does.
Republicans don’t know how to fight back, and obviously aren’t going to try any time soon…
Hillary said it best (although it was an adm she was “against”), and is probably choking on her own words..
“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration you’re not patriotic. We should stand up and say,
… ‘We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration”
158. AThinkingPerson: “Cankle: In lieu of your comments, we’ll put you in the “Favors free speech for all except Conservatives, Independents and Moderate Democrats” column.”
I favor free speech for everyone. But if I am running a forum and you are purposefully screaming over me for the sake of shutting my forum down, then you are violating my rights and the rights of the other forum attendees and I will have you removed.
It’s truly a pity that though conservatives rabidly defend rights for themselves, they clearly don’t have the decency to respect the rights of others.
J. Kimble (frothing at #161): Yes, we can tell you operate with a level-thoughtful head at all times right? You sure showed us how well you keep your emotions in check (just like those union angels you’re defending) when you start your post with “once you wingnuts”. Once we wingnuts? WTF? Do you use name calling to get attention in your daily life? Get out more Kimble. Come sit at the grown-up table for a bit. I think I’ll play a liberal for a bit and see how name calling works….
Anyway, back to your point that it’s the liberal union thug-terrorists (boy, that name calling does make me feel superior!) being roughed up. LOL!
Here’s a video of those poor union thug-terrorists being “picked on” (please note who’s wearing the Barney-esque purple shirts)….
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/08/new-video-from-stl-town-hall-beating/
Again, you’ll fit nicely under the column of “For free speech only for purple shirted union thug-terrorists and willingly chooses to overlook violence against people exercising their free speech” column.
Boy you liberals sure hate free speech these days don’t you?
Go put your purple shirt on now Kimble. Your SEIU bus is probably on it’s way to pick you up for the next rumble at your local town hall. I’m sure there are senior citizens there that DARE to think they have an opinion contrary to yours.
@161. J. Kimble: – … once you wingnuts started bringing loaded guns to these townhalls …
I love the smell of Appeal to Ridicule Fallacy in the afternoon. Smells like… typical leftist asshattery.
Here – go read…
Or maybe you think Concealed Carry Permit holders are supposed to kowtow to your paranoia? Don’t hold your breath. Or do. Yes, do.
I welcome and applaud the presence of union members to peacefully confront…
So far, the union thugs’ record is not peaceful. They put a guy in the hospital for handing out flags. They represent a far greater danger to peace than a CCW holder legally carrying his firearm.
Jharp #136
“And the right wing crazies will absolutely lose it. And a good number of them will end up in jail.”
You misspoke. That’s “concentration camp”, not jail. Will the ovens have green technology?
161. J. Kimble:
About those guns: In the first instance, the person had the right to carry a gun. You don’t like it, tough. In the second case, all we have is a hearsay report from the Congresswoman’s staff. Without corroboration from another, more objective, eyewitness, that’s a non-story for a non-kool-aid drinker.
31. Fred: ““Avoid profanities *or* foul language…”
Or? What’s the difference?”
Some may not know the meaning of that first term and may not look it up.
Rachel Peepers. Fabulous post.
Of course we’re being branded unpatriotic. Fascists always brand their political opponents unpatriotic as a means of marginalizing them.
‘Have you figured it out yet that a couple can file a joint tax return even if one of them had no income?’
This one’s rich. Of course they can, harpo. But that was not the point being made that once again blew you out of the water. That was just your lame spin trying to wiggle out of showing yourself a fool, tool. Again. Shall I cut and paste the relevent comment that makes no mention of a couple? The one where I said a single income filing household. Not a joint filing household. I can if you want. I’ve no issue with showcasing how dull a tool you are.
Sharper tools, please.
Preferably without the self-loathing obsession with teabagging desperately projected in a transparent attempt to stigmatize good folk.
@167. AThinkingPerson: – J. Kimble (frothing at #161):
Heh. “frothing“. I like it.
On further examination, I note that neither the TPM piece nor Kimble’s frothing post identify the careless CCW holder in AZ as someone who actually confronted Giffords. Kimble and ilk simply jump to the hysterical conclusion that this person – identified only as a “visitor” in Kimble’s cite – was there to confront her about the health care plan and do violence with a firearm. As if.
In the other case, I don’t find any credible source that backs up the claim about firearms at the Cohen town hall in TN – just a frothing claim at a blog (LeftWingCracker) and a lot of subsequent leftist hand-wringing, hyperbole and telephone-style exaggeration.
Outside of carelessly dropping a firearm, there’s typically no way for anyone to know who’s carrying a concealed weapon. That’s kinda the whole idea. So how does LeftWingCracker know anyone was carrying? It is a puzzlement.
Anyway, this gives one a pretty clear picture of where the left’s heads are at on all this. That is – they are running scared and shrieking mindless accusations – all because people are finally standing up to their bullying tactics. Just as all bullies eventually do.
161. What’s wrong with people carrying loaded weapons in public? Last time I checked, we have a Second Amendment that not only legalizes, but encourages this behavior. Maybe it is irrational for them to think they’d need to defend themselves against union thugs, but it’s always best to be prepared for the worst case scenario.
100. Sherab Zangpo:
with you !
I can’t say I’ve read every single comment on this thread, but what I have read of the leftist commentators, all we need to do is let them speak for themselves in order to make the point of Rubin’s original post–all they have is hate and lust for revenge, and that won’t take them very far.
I do believe the ONLY REASON we are hearing about the “shouting” “yelling” “disruptive”, “unamerican” (Pelosi)
behavior, is to take OUR minds off the fact that the questions some of us are asking,..are NOT being answered.
Further examination of LeftWingCracker’s (Steve Steffens’) post claiming that firearms were brought to a town hall meeting…
- There were actually idiots who brought guns (legally, it seems they had carry permits, but why did they feel they needed them?).
According to whom, I wonder? And if these firearms were being carried legally, who cares? How paranoid does one have to be to worry about CCW holders actually doing what they’re background-checked, fingerprinted, photographed and licensed to do? In Tennessee, for chrissakes!!?? CCW holders – if they carry at all – commonly carry everywhere they go. So it’s no surprise that they’d continue to do so at a public meeting like this. And since – according to Steffens – they were obviously given the Sheriff’s Deputies’ official Okey-Dokey, why is Steffens’ frothing about it?
Steffens cluelessly asks “why did they feel they needed them?” I don’t know what the chronology of this meeting and the one where the SEIU thugs were arrested, but if this one happened later, perhaps there’s a small chance that these thoroughly vetted citizens believed they’d be attacked and potentially hospitalized – the same way Kenneth Gladney was attacked and hospitalized – by SEIU members… for the threatening act of handing out flags. Just a thought, anyway.
Steffens continues, limply…
- My Congressman allowed any doctor who wished to address the crowd to do so, and a wide range of physicians did so; unfortunately, only one, Dr. Jeff Warren spoke in favor of the public option.
Gee, that must have been a genuine bummer Steve. First, law-abiding citizens are allowed to exercise their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms and next we have doctors actually speaking out AGAINST socialized medicine! Sounds like it was a real O-bummer.
- Steve, of course, supports the public option and said so. Him, I’m not worried about; it’s the Blue Dogs who have sold their souls … I may stay away from Jackson Day so that I don’t take a swing at one of these SOBs.
As we can plainly see, Steffens is the one with an anger management deficit – just like most angry, morally adolescent leftists. His first impulse is – surprise! – physical violence. Hopefully he’ll maintain the self-control to stay home. Perhaps we should be notifying the authorities, however, just in case. Personally, I’d consider this a threat at least as serious as the one Kimble fantasizes above.
Thanks for that link, Kimble – more valuable insight into the fevered, desperate minds of the left.
for jharp …why do you come to a site when you disagree with everything conservative ?
are you a thug ? …you add nothing, you just keep putting up the DNC talking points and ridiculing people who ask for nothing but to be respected as equal citizens.
I can think of no other reason other then you are a bully and a thug since you say you are not paid to write your comments.
Well, we’re down to a matter of days, possibly hours, before some right-wing firearms “expert” drops his gun again and kills an innocent bystander. Don’t worry, the victim won’t be rolled up in a wheelchair “too mediated to talk.” No, the victim will show up in a coffin. Then what? Then who? Then why?
Billslayer – It tough to plumb the depths of your ignorance
Gladney. Unemployed. No insurance. If only there were some legislation in the works that might help this poor man.
Commuter:
‘Have you figured it out yet that a couple can file a joint tax return even if one of them had no income?’
“Shall I cut and paste the relevent comment”
Yes, please do. You are an utter fool.
First not being able to comprehend that Obama cut taxes for 95% of us. Then not being able to understand the concept of a tax credit. And clearly not understanding a couple can file a joint return and get an $800 tax credit. Enough to offset the taxes on 25 packs of cigarettes a week for two. Or as I posted earlier 12.5 packs a week per individual.
Are you attempting to get people to believe these provisions are false?
Are you aware that indeed abortions will be funded? Are you aware that Congress refused an amendment that would bar illegals from the “public option” so therefore, yes, they will receive health care control under the public option? Are you aware that Obama himself has promised to make huge cuts in Medicare funds?
So where are the rumors that are attempting to be quelled? Could it be that the Congress does not want you to know the truth?
Commuter,
“Shall I cut and paste the relevent comment”
Here you go. I did it for you.
167. Commuter:
“I do thank you for providing the information in posts 164 and 165 that give the lie to your 95% figure when taking into account just one other factor – if there are multple tobacco users in any of those households. And by default your pointing out the common sense conclusion that as the tax credit phases out with income, the tobacco taxes will negate it’s effects at a rising rate until the net effect is a rise in taxes for some of your 95% households long before ones reaches the figure of, what was it again.”
If there are multiple smokers then there are multiple earners, you simple minded fool.
And the fact is you’d have to smoke 12 1/2 packs a week for the tobacco tax to cancel Obama’s tax cuts. And since only 20% of Americans smoke, well you do the math.
Sharper tools, please.
Gladney. Unemployed. No insurance.
Actually, he is covered under his wife’s insurance.
Strangely, you’re more interested in these meaningless details than the fact that Gladney was called a ni***r and put in the hospital by union goons merely for exercising free speech.
You’re such a Hero of The People, and truly a Righteous Defender of Minorities …
… or maybe you’re something else entirely ….
Brilliant, Ms. Rubin. Spot on.
I am still waiting for the bi-partisanship that was promised. There are good ideas out there for health care, insurance and tort reform, all of which are needed to even approach success.
We cannot ram these 1,000 incoherent pages through. Cooperation in crafting this policy with reasonable people from both sides of the aisle is required. The arrogance of demonizing protesters, even Democrats who have doubts is ridiculous. The President and his advisors are making themselves smaller by the day.
If people had done their homework, Obama would have never even been the Democrat nominee. Of course, yes, we can blame the media for hiding it as well. But, the info was out there.
Now, we can thank the media for voting the Dems out starting 2010. They have helped to see just how fake this presidency was, and the more they spit at the tv lens, and have tingles up their legs, the better for any party other than the Dems this next round.
Thanks media, for obstructing the truth just enough to get to the truth.
I just adore Jennifer Rubin. But I know that our country needs her more than I do.
It’s much simpler than that. You don’t have to assert these positives. We just don’t need to go there. The problem for the congresscritters is that if they haven’t read the freeking bill, they can’t assert the negative. And neither can the trolls. If they haven’t read the bill, they don’t have the authority to tell anyone anything about what is or isn’t in them. They can’t say that XXX isn’t in there, because they don’t really know.
183. Now and Then:
Gladney. Unemployed. No insurance. If only there were some legislation in the works that might help this poor man.
I agree. If Congress and Obama would just legislate a payroll tax holiday, the man would have a better chance of getting a job and getting insurance through his employer. Oh, yeah, that’s right, you’d rather have him dependent on the state.
Ani:
“I am still waiting for the bi-partisanship that was promised. There are good ideas out there for health care, insurance and tort reform, all of which are needed to even approach success.”
When the other side of the aisle is a tree stump it’s quite difficult to have much bi-partisanship.
Good ideas out there? Yeah, there is. And since the ONLY ideas are from democrats what does that say about your position?
harpo said:
“Shall I cut and paste the relevent comment”
Yes, please do.’
Ok. I’ll leave out supporting text for brevity, and stay to topic. Staying on topic, tool, means that I’ll leave out a lot of critical observations concerning your intelligence that are already apparent to the most casual of observers on this site
It was in the ‘Smile, You’re on Government Camera!’ thread. It started with this.
‘harpo said:
‘If you earn $5,263 in fiscal year 2009 you would own no federal income tax. You would owe $400 in payroll taxes under Bush. Obama’s tax credit of $400 for individuals reduces your taxes to $0.’
Let’s say I said you were stupid, because a couple filing jointly would get Obama’s tax credit of $800. There’s no dearth of evidence in the record that you are, however, had I called you stupid based on that particular, I would have had a problem. It would be intellectually dishonest. I had no problem with comprehending that you are talking about a single, not joint filer, nor couple filing jointly, nor had you mentioned the word couple. More on intellectual honesty and reading comprehension to come in a bit.
There was some back and forth as you dug yourself deeper which would take too much space to paste in, but this response from me made is relevant because it addresses the pesky thing that bites you so often – there is a record of what you write:
‘…there is a record. You add to it with every post. No getting around it if anyone considers you worth the effort to look…You’re reduced to lying – again and again and in the same manner you do about Obama’s socialized medicine plans – by ignoring the record and the derision that intellectually honest folk treat your claims with. Instead claim that no one understands what a tax credit is. Which of course, everyone does understand.’
Again, tool, note the several references to there being that pesky record. And the one to understanding tax credits. Because your current claim, tool, morphed through several iterations as you’ve been hammered over it, is that Obama has lowered taxes on 95% of Americans. You seem to lack the wit to understand that you can’t just pick the tax credit as taxes lowered without taking into account the taxes raised and make that statement.
Your response was to toss out a couple of posts that you didn’t have the wit to realize shot yourself in the foot. My response, getting right to the point in question:
‘Nope. We’ve gone through that. 2 smokers smoking pack a day each in a single income tax filing household have seen a tax increase using just the with holding tax changes and the tobacco tax increase as metrics…The effect slides up into the households that get decreasing tax credits until it reaches a point where the tobacco tax negates the decrease in with holding. Above that, Obama has raised taxes on affected households.’
Note, tool, the term ‘single income tax filing household’ and that there was no mention of joint filing. Or couples filing jointly. Or couples.
You bought in the couples filing jointly in a later post to tweak your numbers and pretend that you were right. I pointed out the fact that your reading comprehension issues were getting the better of you again – I had made no mention of joint filing, or couples filing jointly, or couples.
Being stuck on stupid, tool, and having no other recourse, it’s understandable that your characteristic intellectual dishonesty led you to lie to yourself and convinced yourself that I was talking about joint filing, or couples filing jointly, or couples, or something other than what I had said. And being stuck on stupid, it’s understandable that because you are reading challenged, you think everyone else must be also.
Which brings us back to the observation in the beginning of this comment that to run with the fantasy that someone is talking about joint filing, or couples filing jointly, or couples, when they are talking about a single filer, is intellectual dishonest, and/or outright stupid.
The smart money is riding on you being both.
Based on the record.
Sharper tools, please.
“Ultimately, the “blame the voters” tactic is self-defeating, if not downright embarrassing.”
Hope it works as well for Barry as it did for President Peanut… granted, the “embarassment” thing is tough for the Dems to comprehend.
You really are an optimist, aren’t you?
Commuter,
I am flattered that you spend so much time on me.
Since my last post was taken down I’ll try to make it simple.
An individual taxpayer, one that got a $400 tax credit, would have to smoke 12 1/2 packs a week to come out short.
Somehow you tried to twist this into if there are multiple smokers in the household it would be less favorable.
What you fail to grasp is that 2 smokers equals two wage earners or a joint return, an $800 tax credit. Which would translate into the same damn thing. 12 1/2 packs per week per smoker.
And since less than 20% of Americans smoke, well, you do the math.
Good ideas out there? Yeah, there is. And since the ONLY ideas are from democrats what does that say about your position?
Ideas? The Dems want to run the country like it’s a hippy commune. “Hey, man, dude, we’re like, all in this, like, together, man. So that’s why, like, we gotta take the money from the rich dudes, see, and, like, put it all in a big pile, right. Then, when someone needs, like, an operation, we pull some money out of the pile and go, like, here you are, dude, go get that operation, man. It’s just those evil, like, Republican dudes that don’t want to put their money in the big pile, cuz they’re all, like, greedy and stuff and don’t, like, care”. That “idea” doesn’t even work for 300 people, much less 300 million.
192. venividivici:
So we should wait until he finds a job and goes through 90 days probation to get his health insurance. But, duh, like, what if he is sick before, like, then, what happens to, like his health and whatnot until then? Or maybe somebody just got fired and got diagnosed with cancer, and now when he like, gets a new job he can’t get, you know, help because he has an existing whatchmacallit, condition. Du, like, you know, un, like what about that MISTER CONGRESSMAN!
Obama wouldn’t do this, but that won’t stop me . . . “:I’m sorry, all you reasonable and informed Americans out there, sorry for the behavior of these ignorant right wing lunatics and their evil handlers. They bring shame upon this great nation.”
Grow up, all of you.
187. Aureliano:
Gladney. Unemployed. No insurance.
Actually, he is covered under his wife’s insurance.
Really? Then why is he taking up donations?
So we should wait until he finds a job and goes through 90 days probation to get his health insurance.
Now, I don’t know if you’ve ever had a job, but in the jobs I’ve had, new employees are allowed open enrollment into the company plan, so assuming that he’d need some 90 day probation is actually not always going to be the case. Secondly, if he gets his new job within a certain time period and was in group coverage prior to his new job, he’ll have a HIPAA certificate that allows him to get his new coverage right away.
And if he gets sick in between jobs, gee, I don’t know, maybe he could work out a payment plan with the doctor? You know, just spitballin’ here, but my guess is that the doctor isn’t going to lock him in the office until he pays the bill that day. If he has had a regular physician and has a relationship with that doctor, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him the reduced price he would have gotten with insurance anyway.
I refuse to submit to the idea that because of some hard cases we need to rip up the current system, which 80% of people are satisfied with, root and branch. I know that the Left has never been able to actually build and maintain a single civilization, but for those of us who’ve studied history and know what it does take to do so, the first rule is essentially “don’t tear up things that 80% of people like”. Yes, I know that polls show support for the nebulous concept of “reform”, but that’s only when no dollar cost is actually attached to it. You know what those same polls also show support for? Free ice cream and ponies. Talk about needing to grow up. We don’t live on fantasy island where everyone pretending that we all are one big happy, insured family makes it so. Quite frankly, I don’t even know you and I already dislike you. I dislike everyone who thinks like you. Immensely. I can barely stand the fact that you share American citizenship with me. But, that’s my burden to bear. The main problem, from my perspective, is that I know I’m the sucker in this equation because I make enough money to know that it’s my pocket that will be picked to fund this rathole. Now, why would I want my pocket to be picked to subsidize your insurance, feeling as I do about you personally? Huh? Some kind of “brotherhood of man” thing? Yeah, right.
Grow up, all of you.
Get bent. You know how you know when you’re “grown up”? When you accept the fact that life isn’t perfect.
Increase Mather at 33,
If the Democrats were to actually attempt to suspend the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution I believe they would create a political conflagration from which political survival could not be expected.
The 1st Amendment is THE core principal of our governmental contract. They might be able to put in a fairness doctrine at considerable political cost. Suspension of our 1st Amendment rights to freely speak and assemble would lead to a protest the porportions of which would never before have been seen in this nation. Even the MSM, whose wits have been dulled by their tired, vapid, socialist thinking would realize the threat to their livelihoods such a decree would portend. There would be pandemonium initially. Then there would be electoral backlash. Survival could not be expected.
The Democrats may be misguided about many things, but there are many who would not join in such legislation and would actively oppose it. Those who supported such legislation would be subject to impeachment under Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution.
Really? Then why is he taking up donations?
He was selling flags. Why you have to be all racist and assume that because he’s black he needs donations? Racist.
We need to hear more from Gladney, personally.
HEY PJM!!>>> Please let us hear from Gladney himself.
“You can fool all of the people some of the time and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” — A. Lincoln
jharp —
I guess you missed the ideas mentioned by Rep. Ryan and other Republicans that Ms. Rubin mentions in her article above. It is false to say that no one else has put forth any ideas on health care.
198. venividivici:
You conquered with that one!
By the way, your characterization of Dem/hippy discourse, with their overuse of the word ‘like’ is exactly on target.
A mind that can’t focus sharply enough to make clear cut assertions about what is or is not, is stuck with a foggy similarity relation taking the place of identity — IS gets replaced with IS-like. This kind of thinking doesn’t scale well since it’s systematically equivocal. More abstract means less definite for this type of thinker.
The college-educated Leftist also reverts to the use of IS-like since they reject IS and the Law of Identity in their embrace of Marxist dialectical materialism. That’s why they’re stuck with metaphors and model-building in place of concept formation.
Now and Then:
187. Aureliano:
Gladney. Unemployed. No insurance.
Actually, he is covered under his wife’s insurance.
Really? Then why is he taking up donations?
_________________________________________________
I’m waiting to hear. It is true that Gladney was taking up donations. And it is true that the St. Louis newspaper is on record publishing that Gladney is uninsured.
Only a handful of wingnut websites, mostly in comments, claim Gladney has insurance through his wife.
Can’t wait to hear. Methinks the wingnutosphere has the next Joe Not The Plumber.
And whatever happened to Joe? Didn’t he work for Pajamas Media as a foreign correspondent?
Ouch. That’s gotta hurt.
As the 201+ comment, I doubt whether many people will read this post. However, I believe most people are missing the essence of President Obama’s intentions. They are classical recreations of the Cloward-Piven strategy.
It is likely that President Obama does not care about the content of his health bill. That is why he has left its formulation to the Congress. The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of this bill is that it COSTS TOO MUCH. As long as debt can be acquired, it suits his purposes. So too with Tarp, Cash for Clunkers, Auto Bailout, Bank Bailout, etc. If debt can be incurred and productivity reduced, the power of America to assert itself in the world will be limited. Moreover, if President Obama can create a class of people beholding to his largess, then he will maintain his elected position, and, thus, his ability to control.
Fortunately, the guilt of opposing the first Black President will not extend to the members of Congress who aid and abet him. They will be thrown out on principle. It will not matter one little bit whether the Health Bill is a useful addition to American life. What will matter is that the principle of not having something slammed down our throats was badly violated. The principle that should be forever established is that government is the servant of the people. If we want health care changes, we will decide to pay for it. No one can extract it from us with threats or worse. The same principle goes for every measure that seeks to change America too quickly or radically. Let reality dictate change, not ideology!
As an addition to my previous comment (Jerry 201) it is important that government aid, where absolutely necessary, increase the size of the American Pie, not decide how to divide it up.
Love the insanity in the air at Daily Kos. Here’s their ObamaCare talking points should a libtard attend a town hall meeting. All these were written by lawyers are are full of half truths and loopholes.
The Moveon website is as good as dead; sounds like it was written by the libtard mentality that Thinking person wipes up the floor with every day.
PDATED: Stop Health Care Town Hall Disruptions In Their Tracks
by ShadowSD
Digg this! Share this on Twitter – UPDATED: Stop Health Care Town Hall Disruptions In Their TracksTweet this submit to reddit Share This
Mon Aug 10, 2009 at 08:59:08 AM PDT
(New In This Installment: Rebuttal Points To The Five Most Common Opposition Arguments At Town Hall Meetings, A More Detailed Review of The CT-02 Town Hall, And A Retraction)
Just a few nights ago, I went to Rep. Joe Courtney’s August 6 town hall in Woodstock, CT with this document in hand, and it helped change what started as a completely disruptive meeting into a contentious but functional one where the public option side clearly won.
Below the fold, a brief recap of these top ten health care talking points with five additional rebuttal points, an account of my first town hall experience ever, and how to diffuse disruptions before they effectively silence other viewpoints…
* ShadowSD’s diary :: ::
*
Meteor Blades and others in the comments have asked me to put the shortened summary of the ten talking points at the top of this diary before the list itself. Please note, this shorter verson is ONLY for situations where something with only a few hundred words will do, like a letter to the editor, or situations where you know for a fact you only have thirty seconds or less to speak; if you have a bit more time to speak – even a minute in total – the Top Ten list in full is considerably more effective than the shorter version, which should really only be used absolutely necessary.
A Short Summary of The Top Ten Talking Points On Health Care
1. If you’ve always paid your premiums on time, you’re as likely to be dropped by a private insurance company when you need life-saving care as you are to get treated; even if you aren’t dropped, they have the ability to overrule your doctor’s advice for life-saving treatment and only offer to cover something cheaper.
2. Private insurance companies are spending $1.4M a day to kill the public option, inventing phony citizen groups, and trying to scare the elderly about euthanasia and pro-lifers with abortion; they know the only way to kill reform is to get people of good conscience fighting each other, while they laugh all the way to the bank. They don’t think very highly of our intelligence.
3. The average American family pays $16K/yr on health care while the avg. Canadian family pays less than $2K/yr, and businesses can no longer afford to provide insurance under the current system. Every independent estimate says the public option will SAVE the government money, from anywhere between $150B (CBO) to $265B (Commonwealth).
4. So – if you’d rather spend more taxpayer money, bankrupt businesses, AND pay $16K a year for your family’s private insurance coverage in exchange for a policy that can be dumped the second you actually need it, then the current system is great for you. If you’d rather spend less, have less of a chance of dying, and want to remove the corporate bureaucrat from between you and your doctor, then a public option is the way to go.
If your goal is the takeover of the U.S. and not a political election where you have to earn votes then I perfectly understand “The Won’s” tactics. If, however you are trying to get re-elected this isn’t the way to go. Not to get all paranoid or anything but with Obama’s huge ego I’m not sure that he isn’t gunning for King of the U.S. And with a willing media and power-hungry leadership such as Reid, Pelosi et al I still am not sure that a coup isn’t what they have in mind. The only thing standing between our way of life and a dictatorship is the American People themselves. I can’t see us going down without a fight. That pesky 2nd Amendment thing keeps getting in the Dems way doesn’t it?
‘An individual taxpayer, one that got a $400 tax credit, would have to smoke 12 1/2 packs a week to come out short.’
At about 60 cents a pack tax and a pack a day, it comes out to about $218 a year. I gave you these exact figures some time ago, tool. Want me to find and paste in one of the multiple times I pointed this out to you also?
‘Somehow you tried to twist this into if there are multiple smokers in the household it would be less favorable.’
If there are two, tool, that’s $432 a year. Bam. Net loss to Obama’s tax policies using just the tobacco and tax credit metrics. Want me to find and paste in one of the multiples comments where I pointed this out also?
‘What you fail to grasp is that 2 smokers equals two wage earners…’
So you’ve said. Over and over again. Why you think that if there are two consumers of tobacco in a household, or bottled water or pampers or anything else for that matter, it means there must be two wage earners, I have no idea. I think you just pull that out of your nether region. Irrelevant anyway, since I very clearly used the example where there was only one. Just can’t lie your way out of that, tool. That pesky record.
‘I am flattered that you spend so much time on me.’
Not very much time at all, tool. Manipulating you into shoving your head up your a$$ in public like some demented clown is absurdly easy. I type fast, and you’re abysmally stupid. Both of which make the task effortless. Minimal manipulation. Routine. Think you’d learn.
I ignore most of your nonsense. If you were just a stupid little progressive tool pissant, I’d ignore it all. I don’t think you can help being that. But you choose to be a vulgar stupid little progressive tool pissant. I find the teabagging term offensively juvenile. Loathesome bottom dwelling progressive tools like yourself who use it to stigmatize good people when you aren’t capable of competently checking their coats should be whipped out of the presence of polite company.
Sharper tools, please.
Apparently (perhaps I am being too hasty), my last responses to N&T were not post-worthy. That’s OK, I’m bored of him/her anyway.
206. Kim:
Yes, and don’t even get me started on the flawed foundations of their collectivist assumptions (I couldn’t believe I actually saw the word “communitarianism” back in the news, thanks to Rahm’s brother and his medical ‘philosophy’. I thought that movement died back in the 90′s. It should have.) and the complete lack of grounding of their self-asserted overcoming of the social constructivism they assume circumscribes their opponents’ thinking (everyone else is a tool of the corporate puppet-masters or their own cultural biases, EXCEPT FOR US!).
Commuter:
‘An individual taxpayer, one that got a $400 tax credit, would have to smoke 12 1/2 packs a week to come out short.’
At about 60 cents a pack tax and a pack a day, it comes out to about $218 a year. I gave you these exact figures some time ago, tool.
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No. I gave you those figures. They are accurate.
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‘Somehow you tried to twist this into if there are multiple smokers in the household it would be less favorable.’
If there are two, tool, that’s $432 a year. Bam. Net loss to Obama’s tax policies using just the tobacco and tax credit metrics.
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If there are two, the tax credit $800.
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‘What you fail to grasp is that 2 smokers equals two wage earners…’
So you’ve said. Over and over again. Why you think that if there are two consumers of tobacco in a household, or bottled water or pampers or anything else for that matter, it means there must be two wage earners, I have no idea.
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Because you have to 18 to smoke, dolt.
18 = working age = tax cut. Does that help?
So do the math. If less than 20% of Americans smoke. And it takes a pack a day smoker to incur a net negative from Obama’s tax cuts.
You tell me. What percentage of the 20% of American’s that smoke smoke more than a pack a day?
Good Lord you are a fool. Let it go. You were wrong. You had no idea what you were talking about. And still don’t.
Sharper tools, please.
??Perhaps Gladney needs donations for his lawyer’s fees if he is planning on a lawsuit.
It seems that Obama and Rahm are attacking their critics (an immature move at best)for one simple reason. Their entire mode of operation was to play the messiah game (foam pillars -halo pics with uplifted chin -rainbows and talk of unity in America) Their real goal, as we now see (some of us without blinders saw much earlier)is to talk nice and do dirt while taking over as much of the nation as possible, as fast as possible, before the stooges wake up. How? Keep walking on water – our media will report these miracles with adoring regularity.
So why the anger and attacks? Simple, the people saw the messiah starting to sink (healthcare is personal and easy to understand unlike economics and stimulus talk) and they saw what this man intended to do to them. They saw their constitutional right to privacy (created by the SC to allow abortion) between themselves and their doctor being replaced by a government paid stooge whose job it would be to save money and they were the means. Fear struck – the halo became a pair of horns and the pillar became a pitchfork -the game was over. Once a messiah sinks in full view (like the curtain on the OZ guy) they can never return to power -hence he resorts to his real self and threatens (Chicago style) to take notes with implied pain coming somehow, and openly sends his private armny of union thugs to threaten and use violence against those who would stop his biggest takeover. If this fails -he’s a lame duck and he knows, it so he’s pulling out all the stops, messiahship be damned.
One interesting argument is that health care reform is that heath care is nearly 17 percent of the economy and must be reduced. According to this http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=2008_2010&view=1&expand=&units=p&fy=fy10&chart=F0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&title=US%20Government%20Spending%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&state=US&color=c&local=s
Government is nearly 42 percent of the GDP. Shouldn’t it be reduced?
Public option: Define “public option”. It seems to me that the Government is incapable of competing fairly. Why? Because it makes the rules of the game. Has unlimited capital. Has no direct oversight or responsibility (as to shareholders). Cannot really be sued (for malpractice.) etc. The Government’s responsibility is to ensure a level playing field so private enterprise can compete. The public option is simply unethical IMHO.
180. Max Power asked:
for jharp …why do you come to a site when you disagree with everything conservative ?
Peter writes: It is an ongoing theory among the regular posters here at PJM that jharp and some of his similar ‘friends’ are paid to post devisive comments on sites like this.
It’s often better and easier to simply ignore them and move on to the next post.
219. rrbs wrote:
Government is nearly 42 percent of the GDP. Shouldn’t it be reduced?
Peter writes: Yes! Most definitely!
Speaking of Alinsky, aren’t the current crop of gargantuan bills designed to overwhelm the morons that are Congress so that everything gets through because there isn’t any time for scrutiny?
‘No. I gave you those figures.’
No. Do I need to consult that pesky record to expose your dishonesty once again, tool?
‘If there are two, the tax credit $800.’
If it is a joint filing household. Which it is not. Are you purposely being obtuse or just dumb as dirt?
‘Because you have to 18 to smoke, dolt.’
Because, what, under 18 and you only seem to smoke? However you get your smokes. Or your chew. This is one of your weaker attempts to spin. Getting dizzy, are you, tool?
’18 = working age = tax cut. Does that help?’
Working age of 18 means a tax cut? I assume you’re focused enough to remember that your position is Obama cut taxes for – whatever the percentage is of Americans that you claim on a given day – based on his tax credit. The tax credit you claim no one but you understands.
‘You tell me. What percentage of the 20% of American’s that smoke smoke more than a pack a day?’
Would it be a fair assumption that some portion of that 20% are in the income brackets that won’t get the full tax credit? I mean a fair assumption for anyone with enough brains to understand the implications, tool?
harpo, harpo. Think you’d get what that pesky record means to you. Is not the question whether your 95% claim, in whatever your current iteration is, is supportable, tool? The claim where you continually call anyone a liar who disputes it using just one other metric. Think you’d learn.
Funny thing. I even felt sorry for you at one point when you were running around with your pants on fire – figuratively – and threw you a bone. Told you that you could make a case for some percentage of people getting a benefit using just the two metrics or tax credit and tobacco tax, but as long as you couldn’t back off the figure of 95% programmed into you by your manipulators, you were simply wrong.
But…you are stuck on stupid.
Sharper tools, please.
We are finding out the true nature of Obama and his liberal supporters:Stalinism. Scratch a lib,find a stalinist
193HARP You are in need of tuning.Every libtard idea is a rehash of past libtard-socialist failures.Americans will not have a camarilla of health commissars rationing their health care.As for your “stump” comment,were you referring to your manhood or your brain? or both?Obama has just made himself a one term president.
Big league politics is being played by the Democrats right now. As usual, the Republicans have no defense for this smear campaign because, as usual, they didn’t anticipate it. The Dems count on Republicans to be ignorant politicians, and the Republicans always deliver for them. Meanwhile, the champions of our constitution get slaughtered at every turn. Maybe the people will throw this group of collectivists out of office, but eventually they will get whatever they want, even if they are not the party in power.
Excellent job, Commuter. It’s amazing how the cult followers keep misdirecting/obfuscating in defence of a malignant narcissist who, literally, could care less whether they live or die (read the ghoulish writings of Rahm-bo’s brother & the “Science Czar”, &c. for proof). By the govt’s own admissions O!’s policies make no sense and will not save money. Not too sure why it’s so important to them that the schemes of Dear Leader, who makes shocking gaffes and is way in over his head, should be always be proven logical. Newsflash: even “postracialist” Affirmative Action gold bricks from Harvard have bad ideas. Even democratic pols sometimes break promises about not raising taxes. The convoluted post hoc efforts to explain away 0′s policies are quite entertaining. Not unlike 1930′s era Russians’ fanatical insistence that Stalin was a benevolent “genius”.
Jharp in particular is either mentally ill or a pathological liar who has “distinguished” himself on quite a few other blogs. IIRC he’s the same troll on Patterico who constantly fabricates stories about his profession, claiming to have expertise in whatever topic the host happens to bring up. As of now he has, what, 3 or 4 jobs? His stories may be archived on Patterico, if you are in need of a good laugh.
When you talk about the media’s part in the SEIU puppet show- I mean, the Obama administration, think about this:
In the 2008 election we saw en entire generation of people come of voting age; people who, in many cases, haven’t known life without the internet. As much as we all hate to admit it, the internet is a haven of effortless rewards, meaningless self-aggrandizing, and non-confrontational opportunists who feel entitled to neutral immunity.
Does that sound like anybody you’ve heard of?
What Obama needs to do is stop trying to work with the Republicans, they have no intention of helping America. Their main problem is Obama’s color. And if they can make him look bad, they think it will somehow make them look better. But they are too full of hatred to realize that in this Universe everything you put out, you get back. Also, Obama should use the majority they have right now and ram everything, including the kitchen sink, down the Republicans throat. He should do what Bush and Cheney did, just ignore the american people, and do what ever the hell you want.