No, Professor Ahmed, the Founders Were Not So Fond of Islam
Akbar Ahmed, the chair of Islamic studies at American University, has advised many government officials, including General Petraeus, Richard Holbrooke, and George W. Bush. He speaks regularly on BBC and CNN, and has appeared on many U.S. shows, including Oprah and Nightline.
To oppose the “burn the Quran” event planned by Pastor Terry Jones, Ahmed wrote an editorial for CNN in which he stated:
Not only are the actions of Jones contrary to the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, but they are also against the ideals of the American Founding Fathers.
…
The Founding Fathers read and honored the same Quran that Jones is now seeking to burn.
…
[John Adams, America’s second president] showed the utmost respect for Islam, naming the Prophet Mohammed as one of the greatest truth seekers in history.
These statements are utterly opposed by the facts.
John Adams said absolutely nothing of the kind. Correspondence from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on July 16, 1814, reveals John Adams’ true feelings about Islam: Adams states that Mohammed is “a military fanatic” who “denies that laws were made for him; he arrogates everything to himself by force of arms.”
John Adams did indeed own a Quran — the copy he owned contained the following in the preface:
This book is a long conference of God, the angels, and Mahomet, which that false prophet very grossly invented; sometimes he introduceth God, who speaketh to him, and teacheth him his law, then an angel, among the prophets, and frequently maketh God to speak in the plural. … Thou wilt wonder that such absurdities have infected the best part of the world, and wilt avouch, that the knowledge of what is contained in this book, will render that law contemptible …
Perhaps Akbar Ahmed misspoke, and was referring to John Adams’ son, John Quincy Adams? The sixth president, not the second?
No. Here is what John Quincy Adams wrote about the Islamic prophet Mohammed:
In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust, by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE. [emphasis in the original]
John Quincy Adams also described the Quran in one of his essays as follows:
The precept of the koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.
Ahmed also claims in his editorial that “Benjamin Franklin called the Prophet Mohammed a model of compassion.” Ahmed made similar claims on The Daily Show:
I quote the Founding Fathers. … John Adams on the Prophet of Islam: He called him one of the greatest truth seekers in history. (Ben) Franklin called him a model of compassion. And Jefferson had the first Iftaar … and owned a copy of the Quran. … Those Americans who are attacking Islam simply as a terrorist religion or a religion of evil, really need to go back to their own Founding Fathers.
In a March 23, 1790, letter to the editor of the Federal Gazette, Ben Franklin wrote:
Nor can the Plundering of Infidels be in that sacred Book [the Quran] forbidden, since it is well known from it, that God has given the World, and all that it contains, to his faithful Mussulmen, who are to enjoy it of Right as fast as they conquer it.
Akbar Ahmed is, as previously noted, an advisor to General Petraeus. One wonders if General Petraeuss has been influenced by the false teachings of this professor.
Isn’t that like allowing a convicted child-molester to babysit one’s children? Or to allow neo-nazis to be security guards at a synagogue under threats of violence? If we weren’t living in these weird times of Buraqhusseinia, this would be way too absurd to believe that it’s real.
As other bloggers pointed out, Gen Petraeus couldn’t figure out the intentions of a Rolling Stone reporter. If he didn’t know what the reporter was up to, how is he ever going to figure out an enemy for whom the concept of deception is called a virtue and is mandated in their religion?
I guess those generals all look alike. Some people can’t tell one from the other. Petraeus, McChrystal; what the hell. They’re all closet commie-sympathizers, politicians, and will get fat pensions. Let’s reform the military!!!
Amen, Brother!
“Gen Petraeus couldn’t figure out the intentions of a Rolling Stone reporter”
I believe that was McCrystal that couldn’t figure it out….along with ROE’s.
I believe you have Gen. Stanley Allen McChrystal mixed up with Gen. David Petraeus.
Gen. Petraeus is the Obama-appointee who is fighting to subdue our rights in Afghanistan. He is the one that actually claims that because we’re fighting in Afghanistan we should not use our right of free speech in the US.
Gen. McChrystal is the one who understands Obama is a wimp who kowtows to Islamic threats of violence.
It’s like counting on Kosovo Police to protect orthodox Christian churches when the UN pulls out of Kosovo…
Perfect analogy, except that 99% of the American Public could not identify which side NATO (led by the US) were on.
Nice work but I doubt those who believe the myth will care to hear the truth.They do not value the founders anyway.
You’ve done a great job calling “Professor” Achmed out on his lies. Too bad the MSM won’t pick it up, achmed won’t retract his lies and the majority of people will never know he hoodwinked, bamboozled and outright lied to them.
If this lying professor really does teach at an American university.I would hope they reconsider renewing his contract before he pollutes more of our students with his lies. Has that university checked his credentials? He likely lied about them as well. Because his so called facts are so off base with the truth. oh well, that’s a Muslim for you. Liars just like their self proclaimed prophet Mohamed.
Akbar Ahmed isn’t a professor at AN American university, he’s a professor AT American University. It’s a private school in Washington, D.C. that caters to the “diverse” international viewpoints and liberal dogmas (much like UC Berkeley only much, much worse). Not only is he a professor, he is, as Ms. Rubenfeld mentions, the Chair of the Islamic Studies Department. So of course they don’t care about his credentials; he’s Muslim, and he’s been on CNN. That cements it. His contract will be renewed as frequently as he wants it to be.
None of this surprises you, does it? This is another reason I don’t watch “The Daily Show”; because Jon Stewart has gomers like this on and doesn’t question them at all. A bunch of politically correct bufoons. Useful idiots for the jihad.
Thomas Jefferson had a lot of problems with Muslims even prior to the War with the Barbary Pirates in 1801. A good book on the subject is “Jefferson’s War,” by Joseph Wheelan and it clearly shows that the pirate states in North Africa were trying to blackmail Americans even before Jefferson came into office. Americans paid “tribute,” or extorsion, to the Muslim states prior to 1801 simply because we did not have a Navy strong enough to fight back against the pirates. But Jefferson always despised the paying of tribute and he certainly did not understand why a bunch of thieves in North Africa would attack American merchant ships when the Americans never did anything wrong against the Muslims.
Jefferson realized at an early date that the pirate states in North Africa hated ALL Christians, thought of them as infidels, and had no problems preying on defenseless merchant ships if it would gain them money. And, once the merchant ships were captured, the ships and passengers were held for ransom and the crews of the ships were generally turned into slaves, yes SLAVES, and were brutally treated or tortured to death. Nice bunch of thieves, right?
Well, when Jefferson became president he had had enough. One of the first things he did as president was send a small task force of US Navy warships to North Africa to tell the various Muslim monarchs there that the United States wasn’t paying extorsion anymore. This is the war where Americans invented the saying, “Millions for defense but not one cent for tribute,” and it was probably one of the greatest sayings ever to come from this nation. Jefferson understood that you should never pay people who are trying to blackmail you and that paying “tribute” to anybody was not only undignified, it just wasn’t right, especially since the United States had done nothing wrong against any Muslim country of kingdom.
So Jefferson sent the US Navy and the very, very, young US Marine Corps to fight our first oversease war as a nation. And guess what? We won. True, the first war with the pirates ended around 1805 with an American victory, but the pirate states remained a problem until about 1812. But the important thing to remember is that Jefferson was the first president not to give in to threats and blackmail from a Muslim nation, and this was over 200 years ago.
Time to heed Jefferson’s advice and not give in to these maniacs again. The world has to understand that America has a perfect right to do whatever it wants on OUR LAND, within the borders of the United States. Whether or not a mosque is built near Ground Zero is OUR decision and we should not care at all what the rest of the world, let alone the Muslim world, thinks about it. This rodent imam Rauf is now saying that if we do NOT build the mosque, then radical Islamists will use this as an excuse to attack us. Note to the imam: Radical Islamists will attack us no matter what we do, so we may as well stand up for ourselves and do what WE think is right.
Muslims have hated Americans for over 200 years and I don’t think we need to start bowing and scraping to their demands now. What we need in the White House is a lot more Jefferson, and a lot less fear.
“What we need in the White House is a lot more Jefferson, and a lot less fear.”
That’s kind of humorous. How many billions have we spent, are we spending to kill Muslims?
Hell, Jefferson did not really want a standing army of any significance, but events forced him to come up with at least a navy, just as events are forcing Obama to kill in ways Jefferson couldn’t even dream of. You can be sure that Jefferson would envy Obama’s drones.
What we should really fear is that Obama could be as shamelessly duplicitous as Jefferson was, but then we could also hope (were not the PJM ideology so in the tank the other way) that Obama’s duplicity worked out about as well as Jefferson’s.
As for the larger topic, it is right that we should know ALL the Founder’s remarks on Islam. I’m not quite clear if Rubenfeld is asserting that they did NOT say what Ahmed said they did, or they did say it, but also said the remarks she quotes as well. I want ALL of them.
The Franklin quote–Achmed’s, the one that states that Franklin thought muslims were compassionate, refers to a comment from Franklin about badly behaving Christians and how he thought muslims were more compassionate. He was saying that muslims are bad, but these people were worse.
Most of the ‘supportive’ quotes are like that–deliberate misinterpretations.
Then go ahead, Dwight. Find them. Validate the sources and be prepared to present their bona fides to the rest of us. We’ll wait. Meanwhile, I’m prepared to judge Islam by the face it shows us in our time.
Thanks Francis, very well said. Bugger off, Dwight.
No trolls needed here.
That’s right!!! Go find it Dwight. Part of the problem is people sitting around waiting for someone else to give them what they need or want. If YOU do the work, you will be able to trust it and defend it not just say “well….I heard…..” With freedom comes resposibility….be responsible so you don’t loose your freedom to someone who IS willing to do the work and feed you whatever they want you to believe! It’s intellectual welfare. Don’t end up in the Sharia projects…you won’t get out….and Dwight, THAT should cause fear. Soooo get to work.
Dwight, you said, Jefferson did not really want a standing army of any significance, but events forced him to come up with at least a navy. Thats not true at all. Jefferson didnt just come up with a navy. It was built in the 1790s, prior to him being elected president. It was a small navy, but it had some powerful frigates, some of the best in the world at that time. And Jefferson used this new Navy because he knew it was the right thing to do. He didnt have to think about it for months after he became president (like Obama had to ponder the Afghan surge for what seemed like an eternity) and he wasnt worried about public opinion or polls. He just did it because Americas security and honor was at stake, two concepts the far-left have total disdain for these days.
As far as duplicity is concerned, Jefferson made no bones about his hatred for the Barbary Pirates and he certainly never apologized for sending the US Navy after them. So if youre looking for real duplicity in politics, I suggest you stick with Obama. This is a president that has a lot of problems with the truth, and even greater problems being a leader.
1. Are you denying that Jefferson did not want a large (or even a medium) standing army?
2. Are you denying that he was not a parodoxical at best, duplicitous at worst guy> He may have set the record for supporting attacks on his rivals, especially Adams, and then denying any knowledge of them. And in general, he was a very quirky guy, undoubtedly brilliant, but erratic as hell. His rivals feared his love affair with the French Revolution, and wasn’t THAT the source of his watering the tree with the blood of tyrant’s remark? When Jefferson came to power, the Federalist were sure that it was the death of the Republic; instead it was the death of the Federalist Party.
3. You seem to see some point of comparison between Jefferson’s responding quickly to the threat of the Barbary pirates by sending over the frigates and Obama’s mulling over his options in a war that had been going on for almost a decade. Hey, any excuse to bash Obama, I know, but the two situations are only vaguely comparable.
I too, have read all this about Jefferson, the ambassadors at the time, the emmissaries and the heartless corsairs. It is sooo sad our media is too lazy to tell the truth. This is a time when the media should be repeating what you have written because it’s really not hard to find. It is more than time for the media to quit sucking up to insanity. It is more than time for this lame president Obama to get off his bs line and quit being a faker. He is on tv currently and I am wondering, what is the meaning behind his words? He’s got that tone again, the one like he’s King Kong. That brusque kind of talking. Is he upset? Is he getting the clue people’s tired of his rot? We can’t wait till the elections to dispense with this nonsense and those who don’t stand up for what is TRULY in the Constitution. My mind is still reeling on this Jones guy having Petreus and Gates actually talking with him about this potential Koran burning. Talk about a way to trash the morale of the soldiers because of one podunk pastor who became a celeb. “911 is a day of service”???? What the hellllll is Obama talking about. Such a fraud. He needs GONE. NOOOOOWWWWWW.
YES.
He needs to go NOOOOWWWWWWW.
Thx, Liberty Ship. The book to read for further elucidation of “no tribute” is Michael Oren’s masterful “Power, Faith and Fantasy”. I heard his mesmerizing speech, without notes, here in Toronto two years ago.
I second that. GREAT book. One other theme that runs through Oren’s work is that the US has supported the reestablishment of a Jewish commonwealth in its ancient homeland since the very foundation of this great republic – long before the emergence of any so-called “Jewish” or “Israel” lobby.
Thank you, Libertyship46. The book to read for further elucidation of “no tribute” is Michael Oren’s masterful “Power,Faith and Fantasy”. He delivered a mesmerizing speech, without notes, on this subject two years ago in Toronto.
As a UK reader I was just about to post an identical article to show how long this crap has been going on and will continue until they get bigger and better weapons or the world does something about them. Are we we all frozen in the headlights ???
Great informative posts Libertyship46, thank you.
it is absolutely mindboggling AND shameful that charlatans & bedouins have taken over and are honored at Universities as chairs of studies … Education, in all studies but Science and Technology, seems to be a lost chapter, in US and in many western universities where a centuries-old tradition of serious academic education counted.
Crystal
Multiculturalism and situational ethics have killed any serous humanities work in this country. How could any rational person free to study still be a Marxist? How could any rational person free to study have any respect for Islam. Both have piled up dead bodies from one end of the world to the other.
Between PC and taqiyya, our leadership is being twisted into pretzels in order to sound benevolent. The mental jujitsu and cognitive dissonace needed to either support GZM or oppose the Qu’ran burning is indeed a sign that Islam has sprouted roots here in America.
The US really shouldn’t be in wars or conflicts of any sort, we just never seem to win. We are truly falling apart and need to take a stand!! New leaders, not whimps.
Attila the Hun would do about now for a leader of the US forces everywhere.
The “GROUND ZERO MOSQUE”…another loss.
Ground zero mosque…what a freakin slap in the face to all Americans!!! When you defeat a nation, you go and build your church etc on top of theirs..yep, that’s what they’re doing.
Now the defense department is trying to block the publishing of “Operation Dark Heart”.
“Pentagon trying to buy all “Operation Dark Heart” books and destroy them” BUnch of bull!!
What is operation black heart?
“Operation black heart” is the core essence of the present political administration of the USA…
HoweveR,
“operation dark heart” is a book .
Ahmed also claims in his editorial that “Benjamin Franklin called the Prophet Mohammed a model of compassion.” Ahmed made similar claims on The Daily Show:
And how did Stewart respond? Was he weak, really weak or just plain clueless? The politically correct American media is lazy, cowardly, intellectually incurious and hence unequipped to cope with the lies of the mohammedans.
The NY Times is in overdrive trying to paint anyone opposed to the Ground Zero mosque as a bigot and un-American.
We are on the cusp of 911. The media will use this to defend Islam and screw anyone who disagrees.
Here is a comment which, of course, they refused to post.
——-
Of course, burning books is a bad idea.
Most of us agree on that.
Why do you think this moronic pastor wanted to burn this particular book?
Why do you think that 70% of Americans polled recently oppose the location of the Ground Zero mosque?
We have very strong feelings regarding the biggest attack in the name of Islam on our nation, our Muslim Pearl Harbor, where 3,000 Americans were murdered.
We do not want a 15 story mosque, plainly visible from the gravesite of our murdered friends and relatives, casting a shadow on their graves.
What don’t you and your friends at the NY Times understand about this?
The vast majority of us are not bigots as the media portrays us.
We simply are telling the world, if you want respect then please show some respect to us.
http://www.jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com
——–
Come to the rally in front of the Ground Zero Mosque on Saturday, 11 Sept., 3pm, 51 Park Place, between Church St. and West Broadway.
Muslims love to play victim, and they especially love to put you on the defensive so that negative attention can be diverted from them. When in battle with Muslims, you have to be just as aggressive but never, ever loss your cool. speak calmly and as condescendingly as possible just like they do. Whenever, I get into a debate with a Muslim they usually try to shut me up by calling me a bigot. It doesn’t bother me being called a bigot because when it comes to Islam I am a bigot. My response to being called a bigot is to respond in kind by calling the Muslim a women hater. Being called a women hater stops a Muslim dead in their tracks. they stammer and then lose their cool. No denying it, their founder referred to woman as defective and deficient in intelligence.
sorry I don’t tolerate women haters and I know our founders would not have either.
Excellent, Linda!!!
Comming straight to the point, Americans kill people and call them names. It is the Red Indians not the inhabitants of America which they obliterated. It is the Vietcong terrorists and not the Vietnames people that they bombed. It is the Taliban that they are attacking not the people of Afghanistan. By the way,
American forces are being used as a cannon fodder to capture resources of Iraq, Afghanistan and then Iran. Playwright Harold Pinter made a rare public speech, saying America was “a country run by a bunch of criminal lunatics with Tony Blair as a hired Christian thug”. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2765041.stm
How true!
@8 Shaikh
Only a racist bigot would call them Red Indians, they are American Indians or people of the First Nations.
What the MSM reports has nothing to do with truth rather they would like to construct “narrative”.
“What Fox did is not just create a venue for alternative opinion. It created an alternate reality.”
- Charles Krauthammer
Fox is a window to Reality… The LSM have bricked their window frames up…
When and where did he say that?
He made this statement when he was awarded the Eric Breindel Award for Excellence in Opinion Journalism.
You have to read the article, not just pick out a sentence or two. Betty took it out of context and she knows it. She’s (he) just an other troll, a pathetic one at that.
You purposefully took this comment by Charles out of context..read the whole article and then comment. FOX created a place where we could hear and tell the truth , a completely different venue than the general MSM provides and what you are trying to insinuate.
Fox is more truthful, they have some spin, they often ”go easy” on Islam, no doubt due to the Saudi investors they have. And, of course, in case no one has noticed, they have ”reports” by Amy Kellog about Syria that are plain old propaganda, sounds like the Syrian Ministry of Information who no doubt gives her the script.
But, nonetheless, Fox is far far better then the rest.
Terry, Eilat – Israel
Fox is more truthful , , , far better then the rest.
Van Grungy
Fox is a window to Reality
Anonymous
FOX created a place where we could hear and tell the truth
Really?
check out Jon Stewart in this clip
http://crooksandliars.com/
Anyone?
My Lords, Ladies, and Gentlemen:
Please, do not feed the troll.
and stay away from Stewart the rabid. Who the hell cares what the dimwitted blub Stewart says..
AGREED…Betty’s a troll, don’t fed it..she/he takes things out of context or off subject and gets wound out.
I think we should spend a lot less time trying to understand and have empathy for Islam, and spend a lot more energy teaching Muslims fear. They already fear the wrath of Allah and Big Mo so it is only a small step to teach them to fear the West. I think the last time the Muslim world respect the USA was just after the US beat the snot out of Iraq in a very short time. I would much rather Islam feared us than likes us.
You’re right. Remember that was the time Gaddafi in Libya decided that pursuing nuclear weapons might not be such a great idea after all and tossed it in.
The Art of War
From the Hadith
Ishaq: 398
“Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage.”
It seems the whole leadership of the United States has joined in the chorus of “helping” Islam. These pretenders claim to be defenders of the Constitution? Seems to me they are burning it one Amendment at a time.
Where was all this “help” when other symbols of faith are desecrated, abused in art expression, and destroyed in protest? Their fear is a astonishing sight to witness. That small church in Florida a tiny gnat they strain out, while they swallow the camel that is Islam.
How the mighty have fallen.
In the words of the Prophet – “War is Deception”
This is one of the most important and valuable articles I have read on Pyjamas Media. The wisdom of the founders fathers is clear to see. Churchill shared these views on islam and modhammed, as clearly shown in his writings.
But here in the UK, the BBC brooks no criticism at all on islam, and indeed affords it a special subservience. On the other hand, the BBC is perfectly happy to see Christianity (whose basis is true peace) vilified and scorned by all and sundry.
Our Generals and Admirals in todays military have become politicians, that is why we haven’t won any wars since WWII. We will never beat the Muslims with appeasement for it leads to more appeasement. The Koran tells them it is perfectly alright to lie to the infidels, so do not expect the truth from them either.
This is yet another example of the moslem tactic of lying to infidels. Thank you for this article and keeping the truth alive in the face of the growing threat to our liberty and way of life that is islam.
“In 1787, two days before they signed off on the Constitution, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention partied at a tavern. According to the bill preserved from the evening, they drank 54 bottles of Madeira, 60 bottles of claret, eight of whiskey, 22 of porter, eight of hard cider, 12 of beer and seven bowls of alcoholic punch.”
Now I ask you, how would the good preachers in Florida and Tennessee and Kansas and Wyoming feel about THAT kind of behavior? Me? I’m ashamed of them, such bawdy goings on, no doubt with ladies of ill repute hoisted on their petards. Shameful.
Faith. Hope. Charity. And a drunken reach around. Saints they were, I tell ya. Saints!
How far and wide did you have to search for that bit of moral relativism, “Betty” ?
(Betty’s handlers at media matters aren’t getting their money’s worth)
I think as long as she/he gets responses…they smile.. Just throwing a bit of mud in the fray.
Betty is a troll and we all know this.
How dare you speak of those sainted men, that way? I am challenging you to a duel above the Hudson River, next Monday at dawn. I plan to have by back to the sun, by the way.
Er MY back, like Burr. Hamilton supposedly chose the side where the rising sun would be in his eyes.
So, the ladies drank nothing?
What was your point again? Oh, that’s right, that the Founders were a bunch of drunks… No?, or was it that Christian preachers are hypocrites? Maybe, you’re an anarchist, eh?
Wait, I got it. You’re trying to suggest that the GZM couldn’t possibly have any goodwill intention towards America seeing how this country was imbibed with alcohol since the beginning? That’s the one, isn’t it? Well, it’s not the argument path I would have taken, but at least your on the right side.
Hey!!!! I hope they all boogied!!! it was quite an event!!! Betty the troll knows nothing.
Forgot to put my name on this one….it’s for Betty..
They partied..so?…what does that have to do with this article? How do you know they had “ladies of ill repute”?…next you’ll tell us they married 7 year old girls and became prophets!!!..sound familiar…hhmmmmmm
Betty Knows, who are you quoting?” I want to know.
Betty Nose disinformation and trolling.
you forgot to add that Betty worships the pedophile.
If I’m gonna worship somebody, it’s not gonna be Tom Foley.
Betty
are you stating for us that Tom is a pedophile?
Considering how badly the signers of the Declaration needed their potables, and considering how much more contentious the Constitutional Convention was, I’m not surprised. But then, those were very free-drinking days, the Internet and video games not yet having been invented.
Troll: what the heck does that blather have to do at all with this discussion?! If you are going to be in a room with the adults, please try to act like one. . . . jeez, soros must be scraping the bottom of the septic tank. . . .
“with ladies of ill repute hoisted on their petards”
WTF were they doing with grenades at a bar?!
(Seriously — you’re ignorance is exceeded by your arrogance.)
Betty has no idea what the word means. She/he just throws it out there..
So the guys hoisted the girlies up on their explosive devices? gotta remember that one …
crap, go away.
Spoken like the literalist you are. No sense of irony, humor or wordplay. Dull, so dull. What a curse to go through life with such little imagination. Pity. I hope you’re a good . . . cook.
Benjamin Franklin wrote, god created beer so that men could be happy. At least our founders has a sense of humor. LOL!
No, the men of the time were far from teetotlers. As for the implied hypocrisy, prohibition did not become a feature of
American evangelicalism until the time of Tocqueville. Drunkeness was a huge problem, especially on the frontier where life was hard and whiskey was a pain-killer. Temperance was a major reform movement and the early feminists were big supporters. After all, so many wife-beaters do it because they are full of the sauce. Abraham Lincoln was a member of a temperance society, and a moderate drinker–the kind who would hold a glass of wine in his hand and sip it from time to time just to appear social. Always said he didn’t drink much because he liked to keep a clear head, since his mind was his major asset. But the Founders? Rum was a major product in New England and a pint of Rum at meals was usual, and until the tea trade got going in the 18th Century, beer was drunk at breakfast.
Those Americans who are attacking Islam simply as a terrorist religion or a religion of evil, really need to go back to their own Founding Fathers.
Echoes an Imam Rauf statement that principles in the Declaration of Independence (you know, individual liberty et. al) are consistent with Shari’a.
A statement so ridiculous that even maggots were gagging.
Not that I expect Akbar Ahmed to get it, but Americans are “attacking” Islam because of the ongoing carnage (spenning at least 3 decades now) around the world being perpetrated in the name of Islam as well as the failure of so-called “moderate” Muslims to stand forthrightly and vehemently against said carnage.
Americans profoundly object to all the tactics of stealth (aka soft) jihad to change western societies from within.
Akbar Ahmed is currently Ibn Khaldoun chair and professor of Islamic studies at American University. Ibn Khaldoun was a 14th century Islamic philosopher and scholar, a man about whom Akbar Ahmed has written. Ibn Khaldoun advocated for violence against non-Muslims as a religious duty, in order to achieve the larger goal of dismantling non-Muslim civilization and imposing an Islamic caliphate.
The point of an ongoing infusion of money and influence into American society, including, but not limited to purchase of chairs of Islamic studies at American universities, is not rocket science.
Propaganda, My Dear Watson.
For the record, Imam Rauf has been very unimpressive and unconvincing in his recent sundry pronouncements since returning stateside.
His remarks on Larry King, especially some vague threat of conflagrations in the “Muslim world” if the location of the mosque is changed, are beyond disingenuous.
(Muslim inspired conflagrations are daily occurrences, Victory Mosque in lower Manhattan or no Victory Mosque in lower Manhattan)
This is not a man whose words should be trusted, in any manner, shape or form.
Taqiyya knoweth no limits.
“Ongoing carnage for at least three decades???”
Let’s make at “at least six centuries.”
Could someone please tell me why the founders had to send the Navy into the Mediterranean Sea???
Reply to #8 Hershl – I have been planning to attend the 9/11 Rally in NYC for over a month. Just to mention, I heard no signs, but American Flags are OK…
America Needs to make these people insignificant by getting off foreign oil !!!
America Needs to realize using ‘Freedom of Religion’ is a manipulation.
American Leaders need to take a firm stand against the manipulation we are enduring.
Americans need to ask what contributions does Islam/Muslims make to American Society? Is that why Mr O ‘has’ to build them up?
America Needs to read History – The Islams MO is to Conquer – defeat declare victory (hence the Mosque)
American Needs to stop being so Naive to this ‘cult’.
American Need to realize our ‘tolerance’ is a weakness to oppressive Islam.
America Needs to WAKE UP and smell the coffee.
America Needs to realize this is ‘Not a tolerant’ cult.
America Needs to ‘wake up’ and start to think ‘outside the box’ the leftist indoctrinators put you in. It ain’t all rosey and kumbiya. There “is” Evil out there.
America Needs to realize this is not ‘peaceful’ this is a foothold to bring their war here.
America Needs to realize Islam is a political entity, Why do they ‘push’ so hard for ‘oppressive sharia law’?
America I do Pray your future does not fall into radical islam hands because of you and your leaders weakness, and delusions about evil. ..
Americans are not bigots, or intolerant, we just don’t like evil in sheeps clothing…
America Needs to do their own research on Islam, starting with Saudi Arabia the biggest financiers of terror… (Remember September 11, 2001?)
America needs to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing…Americans are not wolves in sheeps clothing…
Americans need to say if you are so afraid (manupilation) of American violence (manupilation) then why not just leave America? Go back we will not miss you.
Americans – All 75% of them are ‘fired up’ over this and Islam, I say we will not give up our freedom or our Liberty!
Does America/Islam think our ‘Founding Fathers’ said ‘I wonder if they will get mad at us’? Or ‘I wonder if England will get mad’ ? Hell no!! Americans a
“Does America/Islam think our ‘Founding Fathers’ said ‘I wonder if they will get mad at us’? Or ‘I wonder if England will get mad’ ? Hell no!!”
————–
Really? What do you know about how they conducted diplomacy? Adams spent his whole second term trying to avoid war and being mocked by the equivalent (I would guess) of people like you. He even backed the Alien and Sedition Act, because bad as it was, he thought that it was preferable to War. Jefferson was prepared to fight the Barbary pirates, but certainly not England or France; decent common sense, I would say at the time.
When we finally got the brilliant idea to invade Canada (that has never worked for us) and started the War of 1812, a war that divided the country (with founding Fathers on each side) as badly as Vietnam or Iraq did, we ended up with our capitol evacuated and burned.
Golly, don’t we wish that we lived back in the hallowed times of the Founders? Each era contains its own load of sh*t, and every time, some group says “things were never like this back during the days of the Founders, blah, blah, blah.”
So it is not just Mr Ahmed who slings the bs about the Founders. The Founders, like the Constitution are to be cherry-picked. When either supports (or can be cherry picked to support) a particular view of a party at the time, they are embraced. If they appear to conflict with the policy in question, they are ignored, with everything from, Executive Privilege to rushed legislation to Supreme Court re-interpretations. Yes, I’m glad that we have the Founders and the Constitution, but people ought to try studying them for something other than trying to find confirmation for something that they ALREADY want to support…or oppose,…but then…what would be the point? Sigh.
Anonymous? I aint no stinking anonymous.
These are excellent quotes from Adams, Franklin, Jefferson. Is there any way we can get more accurate cites so the quotes can be included in Wikipedia? There doesn’t appear to be anything in their respective Wikipedia bios on the topic of Islam. If these lying imams are starting to make stuff up about the founding fathers (and get away with it), we all need to be able to point to some powerful counter-quotes. Until today, I was totally unaware of the fathers’ opinions about islam.
Well, it looks like that lying snake did some good, in that case.
wikipedia is a cesspool and censors any critic of ISLAM while allowing every misinformation about ISRAEL and other topics- if you attempt to correct by edit they will BAN YOU- ISLAM PAYS people to put anti US info on Wiki, and mnay have seniority and clout there as they have been experience in manipulating history for a long while
Please avoid WIKIPEDIA as reference on any historical or political topic- it is polluted – useless as source of info
They partied..so?…what does that have to do with this article? How do you know they had “ladies of ill repute”?…next you’ll tell us they married 7 year old girls..sound familiar…
sorry , this was sin reply to
Betty knows nothing @15
The Founding Fathers were, by the standards of their time, radically anti-church. That included Islam, of course. But isn’t it kind of sleazy to claim that America was founded as a Christian nation, as you rightwingers have been doing for the last 20 years, and then try to pretend that they had some special grudge against Islam?
The simple truth is that, as products of the Late Enlightenment, deeply influenced by the radical atheism/deism of French culture, the Fathers were appalled by the history of religious intolerance and violence that had nearly destroyed Europe. They realized they could not do away with it, but did everything they could to limit its influence over the ignorant and gullible–that is to say, the same demographic that goes to Tea Parties.
I’m not a Christian.
I go to the tea party rallies. We go because we are tired of the crap that is going on in our present government and want to make a change. It has nothing to do with religion.
…the ignorant and gullible–that is to say, the same demographic that goes to Tea Parties.
Nonono, shef, you got that a$$ backwards.
The ignorant and gullible are the many US voters and members of the entrenched media who refuse to acknowledge that The One™ is incompetent.
There is, however, some truth to your words in that the Founders had witnessed egregious acts committed in the name of organized religion in Europe and were determined to separate the new Republic from such influences.
All of that, however, has nothing to do with the Founders’ shared foundational notion (is that redundant ?) that the liberty of man is divinely assured & inspired and that the purpose of government is to insure that liberty.
Not to mention what one of the Founding Fathers said…
(I paraphrase) “This Constitution absolutely depends on a moral & Christian citizenry to survive.” (Was that John Adams?)
Last year I taught an ESL class on American immigration history using mainly internet sources, and I seem to recall that until the 1960s we really didn’t have Muslim immigration from the Middle East, only Christian, perhaps by design given these quotes from the Founding Fathers? It would be problematic to follow this today, but if this was in fact so, it might be worth a look.
There is no evidence that the United States excluded Muslim immigrants prior to the 1960s. From 1922 to 1965 there were extremely low quotas for all middle eastern countries.
The reasons for most immigratns to the US from the middle east (although not all, since there were Muslims immigrating to the US) being Christians during this time (although there were also Jews who came) are complexed. On one hand Muslims were reluctant to go to a land with few if any mosques. On the other hand Christians were pushed out of the middle east by persecution. This is most true of the Armenians, although that was done by secularist Turks who did not use religion but ethnicity to justify their attacks.
Troll-hole
Trolls are sleazy. Also ill-educated, due to their mediocre IQ. Just keep reading your Foucault and Derrida instead of trying to regurgitate some Howard-Zinnisms.
-The Founders were not “anti-church” at all, much less radically so. Most of them attended church regularly. Nearly all were opposed to an established church at the federal level; many, particularly those outside New England, were also opposed to establishment at the state level; and nearly all favored a good deal of religious toleration. But “radicaly anti-church?”
-Atheism and Deism are not the same thing. The Founders religious views ran the gamut from Bible-thumpery to the more typical Deism, but NONE of the Founders was a “radical atheist.” Not a single one.
-The Founders were emphatically NOT “deeply influenced” by the French Enlightenment. They were influenced by the British Enlightenment, especially as represented by Locke, and by the classics. The only French author who had any serious influence on them was Montesquieu, who, not coincidentally, was a huge admirer of British political philosophy and institutions.
-The values of the Founders were shaped by centuries of Christian culture, and especially by Bible-centered Protestantism.
The Enlightenment itself, BTW, did not spring up accidentally from the head of Zeus nor drop down from the sky on a set of golden tablets, as your faith would seem to have it. It was the product of many centuries of development within a specific culture, a culture based on Athens, Rome, and JERUSALEM.
Wolfie, the same as in Starfleet Commander?
Go back and read the actual journals and letters of people like Jefferson, Adams and Washington before you spout your crap. This nation was founded by God fearing Christians on Judeo-Christian principles. You could start with the book “John Adams” by David McCullough.
Actually, although a few of the Founding Fathers might have been agnostic, or unaffiliated with any particular church, the majority were Christians clearly affiliated with one or another of the dominent Protestant denominations of the day (although Mr. Carroll of Carrolton Maryland was Roman Catholic). A number of the Founding Fathers were practicing Christian ministers. One of the first expenditures authorized by the first Congress was for the publication of Bibles (Christian ones), which the Congress designated should be provided to school children. A very Christian value system and belief system informed the world view and actions of our Founding fathers.
Radically anti-church is overdoing it; signicantly deist, though. However, it is true that religious practice declined during the Revolution and in the years that followed. The country become significantly more secular. Religion eventually rebounded in another awakening, but the act of throwing off the King was a radical act, that had some liberal consequences.
Practice declined during the French and Indians Wars, as a kind of reaction to the Great Awakening, and the generation that actually fought the War–including men such as John Marshall– was not especially religious. Aaron Burr was actually the grandson of Jonathan Edwards and both he and his rival, Alexander Hamilton, had read Hume. Ironically, the very secular Hamilton had a kind of religious awakening after his brilliant son was killed in a duel. Doubly ironical in that Hamilton afterwards agreed to the duel that took his life. In reaction to French “atheism” many Americans became religious during the 1790s, and it was during Jefferson’s administration that the “Second Great Awakening” began. By the 1820s, it had had a powerful effect on opinion, which is why men like John Quincy Adams were more religious than their fathers. And why a man like Andrew Jackson could die a pious death. Lincoln was an anomally when he came to the presidency without being the member of any “denomination,”for from the 1840s onward, politicians were uniformly church members. Relatively few Americans were churched in 1800, but by 1860, most were.
However “un-churched” is different than “non-religious”. Many people who did not go to Church would read the Bible on a regular, if not daily basis, and the Bible was had in most homes. Those who did not affiliate with specific denominations would in general favor a belief in God.
Anyway, the whole point of this article is that it is not true that the Founders looked to Islam and would have objected to burning the Qu’ran. At least if we accept the Supreme Court rulings on 1st admendment protections, burning the Qur’an is political speach, and it is definantly wrong for government officials to speak out against political speach. I guess private individuals can, but government officials should not.
I think burning the Qur’an is stupid, rude and pointless. It is unneccesarily provocative and the person who did it was an attention seeker. Still, people have the freedom to do things that are rude, and the government should not step in to try and stop such actions.
A gross misrepresentation of the religious opinions of the Founders. The older men, like Witherspoon were products of the Great Awakening, and this would include Sam Adams. Textbooks tell us that the Quebec Act was one of the “Intolerable Acts,” but not why it caused such rage in New England and made Congregational ministers the most solidly
pro-revolutionary class of all. It was because it not only tolerated Catholicism in Quebec (upper and lower Canada) but virtually established it among the French -speaking inhabitants. This solidified French support of the British Crown during the Revolution that an embassy including Benjamin Franklin and John Carroll–afterward the first American Catholic bishop–could not sway the Canadiens to join the American Rebellion. They knew how much they were hated by the New Englanders with whom they had been bitter enemies for a hundred and fifty years.
The Quebec Act’s establishment of the Roman Catholic Church is a very little discussed fact. When I first learned it I felt I had been used as a pawn by those who claim there is a long tradition of anti-Catholicism in the United States.
I will not deny there is a long tradition of anti-Catholicism, but in the negative reactions to the Quebec Act the issue was government support for the Catholic Church, not jsut allowing it to exist.
Not true,our country was founded on Christian principals,ther were from the Church of England and left because of the king.How and where do you think the laws of every nation on earth came from??? stretching from the Old Testament..the stoning of whores and at times of the men whom bought them,to no one to commit murder…slander,become a false witness…cheat..stealing…come on those come straight from the BIBLE!!!!!
I find this very interesting as the Lutheran ELCA has sided with these terrorists and false prophets, yet today the daily devotional reading comes from 2 Peter 2:
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them – bringing swift destruction on themselves. Even so, many will follow their licentious ways, and because of these teachers the way of truth will be maligned. And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, pronounced against them long ago, has not been idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
I had studied Jefferson & the Quran, but hadn’t gotten to the Adams. Thanks for the insightful writing today.
Muslims burn other people’s sacred scriptures all the time, why not burn a copy or two tomorrow?
It’s been decided by the U.S. Federal Courts, anything held sacred by another person, or peoples CAN BE BURNED as an exercise of “free speech” rights.
I mean come on, Roman Catholic missals and lectionaries were burned (numerous times) by the Democrats, opps! I mean the KKK up until the 1960s.
But the Catholics in Germany and other countries where we had military forces did not go on killing sprees over it.
although conservatives and readers of these blogs have a fair understanding of what is going on and there are a lot of them.
so to are the number of progressives and elitists who do not have any idea what is happening or what is at stake.
The progressives OWN the schools ….they OWN the education system. And not enough is being done to slow them down or curb their influence on YOUR children.
Marxists and progressive always use children to break up family morals and muddle truth.
check out the link.
And we dhimmify further. Notice how everyone in the media is now, as if they had a meeting on the subject, spelling koran as Qur’an. WTF?
Helped by the subversive-commie media and by the subversive administration the islamists lie to our face every single day, and this is their “celebration” of September Eleven.
Thank you for the excellent column.
NEVER FORGET !!!!
See today’s
http://www.911familiesforamerica.org
with the list of all the names of the victims of the 9/11 attack.
I copied/pasted it on my blog and I invite all the Readers who have a blog to do the same.
NEVER FORGET !!!
We live in a country where the federal government not only allows, but actually subsidizes desecrating Christian symbols by paying “artists” to immerse crucifixes in urine, and at the same time, the hirelings of said government tell us that we must show respect for the teachings of a demented child molestor and his deluded followers.
What a total joke this country is.
hey!! a koran in urine…great idea!!!, it was mine..
the art critics would flock to it and be amazed!!!
we just need to blow the middle east to hell and back every time they attack us..forget this sending our people over there, just napalm em..yes, I not ashamed..
It’s amazing how anybody and everybody will simply take someone else’s tradition, holidays and any other important events and turn it into their own these days.
“[John Adams, America’s second president] showed the utmost respect for Islam, naming the Prophet Mohammed as one of the greatest truth seekers in history.”Ahmed A Mistake (or whatever this nitwit’s name is)
I doubt it.
This is what Adams actually said…
“All sober inquirers after truth, ancient and modern, pagan and Christian, have declared that the happiness of man, as well as his dignity, consists in virtue. Confucius, Zoroaster, Socrates, Mahomet, not to mention authorities really sacred, have agreed in this.”–John Adams
It can be found in John Adams’ essay “Thoughts on Government: Applicable to the Present State of the American Colonies”, and Adams doesn’t express either respect for Islam or any opinion as to Mohammed’s greatness, other than to note that Mohammed’s babble wasn’t “really sacred”.
Methinks the Muslim doth be lying through his teeth…and he’s getting paid to do so by your federal government, which frequently employs this guy.
Tea Party anyone?
A history lesson that should be taught in every school in America.
Disturbing, is it not, that our Founding Fathers were far more knowledgeable about Mohammad’s sadistic, violent character and motivations, the Qur’an, Islam, its Godless, bellicose foundations, and its antithesis to their vision of America than any of the current leadership in the western world including America.
I suspect it’s due in no small part to the ongoing revision of American history as recently elucidated on the Glenn Beck show and a determined and largely effective infiltration of Muslim operators at every level of government, including our military, academia, and media spokespersons from Saudi backed Muslim organizations throughout America and the west that have cultivated the attention of an inept, incompetent and compliant media eager to take their pious pontifications at face value (why would religious spokespersons lie?) and spread their lies about Islam.
Kudos to Ms. Rubenfeld for not blindly accepting Mr. Ahmed’s pious pontifications. Would that the good General read her article, consider the facts and the references she offers to support her argument, which he can easily verify, and perhaps begin to alter his politically correct views on the nature of Islam, the identity of the enemy and the definition of victory that currently determines our trenchant war strategy in Afghanistan.
I am all for more on the Founding Fathers, but since they had so many positions all over the map, often hated each others’ guts, (and that was before the Constitutional Convention, Bill of Rights etc.) Making sausage is risky to describe and if one only reveres the “Great men” FFers, you get one half of the truth, if you only know them, through their slaveholding, provinciality, sexism, alcoholism, inability to stay solvent etc. you create another half truth. Are any of us ready for the whole truth?
I find myself wondering, these days, if there is a single Muslim who is capable of telling the truth about anything.
Capable? Yes. But if the truth would rebound to the disadvantage of Islam or Muslims, they’re encouraged to lie.
It takes one of two things to successfully revise history in any society. A majority of illiterate citizens or a totalitarian regime where resistance to the revisions is met with punishment or execution.
We are still a free people and most of us can read. Thanks to free access to information like libraries and the internet, pulling the wool over our eyes when it comes to our own history is a failing struggle.
Akbar Ahmed is lying. He knows he’s lying. What he seems to have forgotten is that we’re not like most of the islamic countries. It’s easy to lie to people who don’t even know what’s in the qur’an or hadiths because they can’t even read them! They are also warned not to question the qur’an as there will be severe punishment if they do.
So Akbar Ahmed is a liar. That is not considered shameful in islam if one is lying to the infidel. In fact the Quran unashamedly calls Muhammad’s god the best liar and deceiver of them all! It even dares to say that ALL deception belongs completely to Allah:
And verily, those before them did deceive/scheme (makara), but all deception/scheming is Allah’s (falillahi al-makru). He knows what every person earns, and the disbelievers will know who gets the good end. S. 13:42
You can look it up here, with three different English translations no less.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/
That President Obama would repeat this erroneous history is both alarming and disgusting. Either this well educated man doesn’t know American history, or he is deliberately reinforcing these lies by repeating them to the public in an attempt to legitimize them.
In any case, by doing so the President has cast himself as either foolish or evil.
Locke deffended tolerance for those who share the same core valus. Stoning an accesory to a murder, puting bombs in schools because girls are studying there or death penalty for conversion are unlikely shared values
A MUSLIM telling lies or half truths chagning history to suit their fantasy- not a surprise- but the fact taht out PRESIDNET HOLDS EXACTLY the same views as these traitors about the founders – WELL that is not a surprise to me but should be blasted by a media- and would be if they were not biased and decided ont heir OBAMA can dono wrong narrative-
the foudnig fathers,. fair and wise men, yes who loved life- drank partied warred worked hard invented things promoted ideals- the fact remains taht these guys looked ISLAM squarely inthe eye, researched it and like any sane person came to the same concultions any of here re familiar with-
Itis a sick poerverse immorla false religion created by a warlord destroyer of others, a COLONIALIST a usurper
they saw when they looked into the heart of ISLAM the same I see- a heart of DARKNESS, darker than the rock they kiss in the Kabaa-
you can fool many people and many are being fooled but not ALL of us
“One wonders if General Petraeuss (sic) has been influenced by the false teachings of this professor.”
Why would one doubt it? As the US military’s most leftist general, I believe Petraeus has only a slightly more developed appreciation for history, that is to say next to none, than does the next leftist. This is a consequence of the wired-in and false understanding of human nature that is characteristic of the Utopian left.
This is the first time I have ever seen the Founding Fathers’ views on Islam discussed. It begs the question: to what extent was the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause intended to merely indicate governmental impartiality between the various Christian denominations and Judaism, as opposed to some idea of considering Islam and pagan religions as possessing some kind of equal dignity and standing alongside the Judeo-Christian faith? I for one cannot conceive of the Founders desiring an imam or Buddhist monk or whatever to open Congress back then with prayer.
Christ- the word of G-d made flesh, healed people, was murdered, rose from the dead for mankind’s sins, and sits at the right hand of G-d the Father.
Mohammad- enjoyed murder, rape, lying, and dressing up in girls clothes.
Do you think he wore little bells and sequins? I love sequins…
Why yes, yes I do think so. Also, I bet he had the legs for it.
VERY interesting stuff. Its kind of eye opening to learn that some of our Founders were so outwardly skeptical of islam, which to me seems a cross between a sort of 7th century Scientology and a modern day death cult.
The history of this event is captured in Dealings with Mellimelli, Colorful Envoy from Tunis.
Surprisingly, a folk song didn’t surface as the story is rich with enough detail to gayly (the old fashioned term) turn a tune.
Mellimelli could be remembered as “smelli-smelli” since
” guards had to be posted outside his lodgings to turn away the curious” due to his “generous use of scented rose oil “ . . .an overtly apparent olfactory masque easing fulfillment of his “. . .request for “concubines” as a part of his accommodations . . .”
As for the sunset dinner with Jefferson . . .
Jefferson’s invitation to the President’s House on December 9 changed the time of dinner from the usual “half after three” to “precisely at sunset.”
More specifically, Northeast ‘Dec. 7th Earliest Sunset Of The Year’ puts the time of sunset, on December 9th, 1805 at 4:46pm, a whopping total of one hour sixteen minutes later than usual. Hardly a remarkable alteration considering the lack of technology (no microwaves for reheating) or motorized transport not to mention the time necessary for preparation and presentation for a state sponsored dinner.
Regardless, Jefferson eventually came to his senses and took care of business with America’s First War on Terror @ The Shores of Tripoli – which has quite the catchy tune capturing the dawn of counter-jihad sanity. Perhaps, some talented lyricist will compose a new verse to mock such nonsensical revisionism and add it to the treasured Marines’ Hymn . . .it wouldn’t be the first time verses were added to this hymn. OOOORAH!
Someone should ask Professor Akbar Ahmed, if our Founding Fathers were so fond of Islam, why didn’t they convert?
Muslims would love to re-write our history. Thank you Laura Rubenfeld for exposing their lies.
Freemasonry was about as close to Islam as the Founders came. They did adopt some Muslim symbols–witness the Shriners–and devout Christians were practically excluded from the highest ranks. But anti-masonry was an important
reform movement of the 1830s, because it was thought of as a kind of conspiracy against American democracy by the elite.I think J.Q. Adams was was elected to congress in 1830 with the support of the Anti-masons.
Adams was elected to the House in 1830 as a “National Republican”.
He was re-elected in 1833 and 1834 as an “Anti-Masonic” candidate.
(In those days, Congress rarely met before December of the odd-numbered year, so many states elected Representatives in the spring of odd year; that is what Massachusetts did in 1833.)
From 1836 through 1846, Adams was elected as a Whig.
What?? A post with all facts an no bluster? What is the matter with you?
The professor was just following the Koran that instructs Muslims to deceive their enemies (Al-Taqiyya.) How can you believe anything a Muslim says when they are instructed to lie to their enemies? If you are not a Muslim (Kuffar) the Koran details how to kill, capture, oppress, etc. the unbeliever.
Read the Koran and never submit to their fairytales.
After all that ‘s said and done look at the track record of Muslem leaders and college professors and tell me do you believe any of their propaganda?
Something I constantly wonder about is whether the people that really should see these columns in fact do so. Does anyone have any information about whether the wonderful conversations we have percolate upward to the halls of power?
Islam is merely the world’s largest cult.
Look at this article, that goes through the tests that cult psychologists use to identify a group as a cult, and applies it to Islam with specific citations to the Koran. It will be the most important thing you read.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50218.htm
Cults misrepresent facts all the time. They are always trying to slant the words of people non-believer’s admire; in order to gain general acceptance of their ideas. This is “modus operandi” of a cult, whether it’s a Christian sect, Islamic, Yoga, etc.
This professor is merely a high ranking cult member; and he will misrepresent our Founding Fathers in order to gain our approval of his group. He will also lie to infidels.
We as a country need to have an open dialogue on cults and how they work. From the Branch Davidians, Scientology, Mormon polygamists, and …. yes, Islam and Islamic radical terrorists. The way to fight the cult is with information about the cult’s misinformation. We need to teach our children about cults and how to identify them. Only by shining light on a cult, can we get some followers out and … keep alot of followers from falling prey. Just look at the Philipines if you want to see how Islam spreads.
It was crafty of Hussein Obama to appoint Gen. David Petraeus as ground commander in Afghanistan because Obama sets Petraeus up to self-destruct. The Muslims show that Petraeus thinks he is. It was stupid of Petraeus to get involved in a civilian religious koran burning in Florida. Obama is giddy! Thank you Petraeus everyone is going to hate you for coming down on the side of the Muslims. The purpose of Taqiyya is too agitate against Christianity and western civilization. Did the military complain about burning the Christian Bibles in Afghanistan? Petraeus reveals that he can publicly agitate for Islam but not for Christianity.
But Jefferson was more polite than eurocrats:
http://www.abc.es/20100912/internacional/israel-rechaza-moratinos-201009121350.html
Im an American University alumnus. I stopped having anything to do with the university after AU President Ben Ladner (later removed for misconduct) went on a world tour, the sole purpose of which appeared to be kissing the ass of any enemy of the United States he could find. (When his North Korea trip was written up in the alumni magazine I initially thought it was a prank.) For at least thirty years AU has raised money by flattering wealthy third world monsters, especially in the Dar al-Islam. This fellow Akbar Ahmeds job is to be a tool of flattery and hes evidently a very good tool if he keeps getting his mug on TV. However, hes a paid liar as Laura Rubenfeld makes clear.
a response was posted at Washington Post’s On Faith
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/10/exposing_the_infrastructure_of_anti-muslim_hate_1.html
Please all of you read the response in the Washington Post posted above. Dr. Akbar Ahmed is a wonderful American, an exceptional Muslim, and an incredible human being. Clearly Laura does not have her facts straight nor has she met Dr. Ahmed in person to know that his true intentions are to spread love and compassion and build bridges of understanding between different religions and cultures. I know Dr. Ahmed personally and he is admired and respected by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Republicans and Democrats. We need more Muslims like him to stand up for what is right and promote peace instead of violence. Have any of you read his book Journey Into America? Or anything else he has published? Shame on all of you for your complete and utter stupidity.
What is wrong with all of you people – starting with Laura? Who are you? How dare you write such a disrespectful piece of trash about someone you have clearly never met? I have had the privilege of meeting both your boss, Steve Emerson and Dr. Akbar Ahmed and you bring great discredit to both of these amazing men. Shame on you! These men are great patriots, each in his own way, and for you to blatently obscure facts and make false statements through innuendo is unforgiveable! I met Dr. Ahmed when his book, Journey into Islam first came out. He was speaking at The National Cathedral with two of his closest friends, Bishop John Chane and Rabbi Bruce Lustig. What does that say about his life-long commitment to reaching out to others by building bridges of knowledge and understanding instead of ignorance and hate? And speaking of ignorance and hate, what about all of you who wrote in with your nasty, lazy comments about which you know nothing. I am here to state – with every fiber of my being – that you have done an incredible disservice to both Mr. Emerson and Dr. Ahmed by buying into the rampant hatred for anyone whom you percieve to be different. Yes, there are terrible people out there who wish us dead – people from all walks of life and every religion under the sun. Meeting Dr. Akbar Ahmed was one of the great moments of my life. He is filled with peace and has spent his entire life trying to share that with others. Look him up, learn about him before you dare to say the things you have said here today. You should all stand in shame.
The problem is that people are speaking from experience, their own observations and recorded events, unabashedly basing their opinions on what is distopian matter of fact rather than a utopian yearning for what might be and an adoption of cultural equivalence as an axiom rather than a lemma.
You know, the Americans Founding Fathers even had no appreciation for the finer points of the divine right of the King. They founded an egalitarian society with a plethora of inconvenient civil liberties and obstructive individual rights, where people had a right to offend each other, daring to say what they liked and respecting each other enough to say what they thought. Why, they even had the temerity eventually to extend equality to blacks (abid) and, worse, to women. Had they no conscience, no shame, no honour?
You may admire Dr. Ahmed, but one tree does not a forest make. I look around and I don’t even see a small wood.
Tom, why don’t you close your thesaurus and open your eyes? The view is amazing!
I like how most of this is John Adams and towards the end its Thomas Jefferson. Did you ever go to the library of congress? If you are there and you look up at the ceiling, you will see the philosophies that contributed to the American government. Islam is listed. Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. Deists do not believe in prophets. If you didn’t know Muslims are acknowledged in the constitution.