Nidal Hasan and Fort Hood: A Study in Muslim Doctrine (Part 2)
Click here to read part one.
Jihad
Amongst learned infidels, jihad is the most recognized and notorious of all Muslim doctrines. Literally meaning to “struggle” or “strive,” jihad can take on any form, though its most native and praiseworthy expression revolves around fighting, and killing, the infidel enemy — even if it costs the Muslim fighter (the mujahid) his life: “Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the Hereafter fight in the path of Allah; whoever fights in the path of Allah — whether he dies or triumphs — we shall richly reward him” (Koran 4:74). And “Allah has purchased from the faithful their lives and possessions, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight in the path of Allah, killing and being killed” (Koran 9:111).
The hadith also has its fair share of anecdotes advocating the “one-man jihad.” Zawahiri’s treatise, “Jihad, Martyrdom, and the Killing of Innocents,” (AQR p. 137-171), spends much time justifying the desperate solo jihad — otherwise known as the “martyrdom operation” — including by offering the following hadith: “A Muslim asked Muhammad, O Messenger of Allah! If I plunge myself into the ranks of the idolaters and fight till I am killed — what then, to heaven? He [Muhammad] said yes. So the man plunged himself into the ranks of the idolaters, fighting till he was slain” (AQR, p. 153).
The learned ulema agree. According to al-Qurtubi (d. 1273), “There is no wrong for a man to singlehandedly attack a mighty army — if he seeks martyrdom — provided he has the fortitude.” Others indicate that one of the reasons making the one-man jihad permissible is that it serves to “terrify the foe” (AQR, p. 155).
And there it is: When all else failed, when Hasan’s forthcoming deployment into Muslim land forced him to expose where his true loyalty (wala’) lies, pretense (taqiyya) gave way to full-blown struggle (jihad). Hasan, who sacrificed many years to become a psychiatrist and a U.S. Army major, in the clear words of the Koran “exchange[d] the life of this world for the Hereafter.” Evidence also indicates that he believed “martyrdom operations” were not only valid but laudable acts of courage, writing “YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE” (capitals in original). Zawahiri puts it more articulately: “The deciding factor is … the intention.” Is the mujahid killing himself “to service Islam [laudable martyrdom], or is it out of depression and despair [forbidden suicide]?” (AQR, p. 157).
(Unfortunately and, no doubt, much to Hasan’s chagrin, infidel medics ensured his failure to achieve martyrdom.)
The greatest proof that, at least in his own mind, Hasan was waging a jihad is the fact that he utilized that immemorial jihadi war cry — Allahu Akbar! — which has served to terrify the infidel denizens of the world for centuries. Here’s an example from Muslim history (circa the early 8th century): “The [non-Muslim] inhabitants of eastern Anatolia were filled with terror the likes of which they had never experienced before. All they saw were Muslims in their midst screaming ‘Allahu Akbar!’ Allah planted terror in their hearts. … The [non-Muslim] men were crucified over the course of 24 km” (from Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk).
Indeed, while the takbir (the formal term for “Allahu Akbar”) can be used in various contexts, it is by far primarily used in a jihadi context, past and present. Nearly 1,400 years ago, Muhammad and the early Muslims cried “Allahu Akbar” immediately before attacking their infidel neighbors; eight years before the Fort Hood massacre, Mohamed Atta cried “Allahu Akbar” immediately before flying a hijacked plane into one of the Twin Towers on 9/11. Even Bukhari, the most authoritative hadith compiler, has an entire chapter titled “The Recitation of Takbir [i.e., Allahu Akbar] in War.”
Yet confusion abides. An AP report writes: “As if going off to war, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan cleaned out his apartment, gave leftover frozen broccoli to one neighbor, and called another to thank him for his friendship — common courtesies and routines of the departing soldier. Instead, authorities say, he went on the killing spree that left thirteen people at Fort Hood, Texas, dead.” Contrary to the tone of this excerpt, Hasan’s actions were far from contradictory. After all, he was “going off to war.”
Wala’ wa bara,’ taqiyya, and jihad all help explain Hasan’s actions. Even so, other lesser-known aspects of Islam lend their support to the view that he was acting from an Islamic framework.
Dear Raymond Ibrahim,
I asked you if your last article if you believe it’s productive to blame an entire religion (which has 1.5 Billion followers) when those efforts can better be spent searching for and destroying actual terrorist organizations? I’d like an answer to that question.
On this article, you were more specific on blaming the doctrines of the Islamic faith. It continues to appear to me (correct me if I’m wrong) that you’re blaming the faith of 1.5 BILLION Muslims and not the actual terrorist. If you truly believe that religion is the cause of terrorism and not actual terrorists, then why aren’t 1.5 BILLION Muslims attacking us?
You again! I bet you have no trouble blaming Catholicism for the wrongs of a few priests? I bet you blame Chrisianity for the behaviors of sociopaths who murder abortion MDs or bomb abortion centers?
You mention 1.5 billion a lot.
The faith and the jihadist are inextricably connected; they are not exclusive. It is, though, the fundamentalist/zealots who kill innocent Americans, become insurgents and jihadists, and become suicide bombers and fly into buildings, etc.
It is you the defender of Islam who cannot read what the author is writing. Because you do not want to understand. It does not fit into your progressive template.
Mr Mohammedan so called and misspelled Independent he blames the CULT because its the CULTS book which promotes and mandates Islamic violence that’s why. As I told you before the MODERATE Muslims are the Real MISUNDERSTANDERS of Islam and I PROVED it to you by showing you just a FEW of the many many VIOLENT verses in the Koran. So give it up your Taqiyya ploy has been rumbled.
The one point that I would add is that martyrdom is the only guaranteed way for a Muslim to achieve heaven.
It is strange the president of the United States during his campaign portrayed the afghanistan war as a “GOOD WAR” that needed to be fought. but since His hand appointed General requested more troops for the “GOOD WAR” mr. Obama has slammed him in the face, and has done everything he can to try to make the general look bad. Then because mr obama was angry with his general, he postphoned further troop deployment. mr obama has bee hum hawing around about any surge type movement in afghanistan. Since the Terrorst attack on the army base at fort hood. mr obama has been enlightened it seems to find out that his fellow muslims in the USA are angry with him for fighting a “GOOD WAR” and killing fellow muslims, he now seems ready to pull all troops out of Agghanistan. mr obama acts like a school yard bully, and if anyone disagrees with him he will retaliate totally out of porportion.
MR Independent at 1 above,
I know that the majority of Muslim practitioners are peaceful people who are worshiping Allah as they choose. The problem is that Islam also chooses not to police the radicals in it’s midst. This has to change. You are free to believe as you wish until you act to subjugate or harm others. Radically expressed Islam is acting to harm others and is not being policed by practicing Muslims. The religon is not taking responsibility for its wayward members. Until that changes, others will have to do the policing so that we can protect ourselves. It’s time to assume responsibility.
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar!
@ #1.
The doctrines of Islam are at fault, and they quite expressly forbid as demonstrated in these articles Muslims from aiding infidels against Muslims. This includes providing the authorities with information on Jihadists living in the area and planning attacks. As you should be well aware from reports Muslims are as brutal if not more brutal to other Muslims who they deem to be “not Muslim enough” or “apostates”.
Was not Muslims dancing in the streets on 9/11 enough to convince you? Is not the very real lack of outrage on the part of Muslims at the mass murder of non-combatant men, women, and children by other Muslims not evidence enough? Juxtapose the reaction of the Muslim community to the murder of Israeli children on a bus to the reaction to a simple comic about Mohammed or some book criticizing Islam.
They don’t police their own because it is against their beliefs to do so. Those few that do are not “devout” Muslims, those that do help infidels against other Muslims have placed something before Islam. They have chosen tribe, family, safety, or even personal wealth before Islam and thus under the edicts of Islam are now no better than infidels themselves.
I think we’ve come full circle here in the United States since 9/11. According to the Obama administration, there no longer is a “War on Terror” and all terrorist acts are now going to be treated like ordinary crimes, just like they were prior to 9/11. And now we see with the Hasan case that, once again, we have Federal agencies not sharing information, even though the Pentagon and the FBI knew that Hasan was certainly unstable, if not an outright threat to this country. What is beyond question is that Hasan certainly warranted much closer surveillance than he got. This is the way the United States was on 9/10 and it took 9/11 for the government to change the way it tracked terrorists. Now we’re right back where we started because, heaven forbid, we wouldn’t want to offend anybody or any ethnic group while trying to find terrorists on our own soil. The Obama administration should be ashamed of itself.
Obambi LIED (yet AGAIN) and the guys at Fort Hood DIED.
Samizdat (6):
I know that the majority of Muslim practitioners are peaceful people who are worshiping Allah as they choose. The problem is that Islam also chooses not to police the radicals in it’s midst.
Yes. Specifically, whereas Christianity (and Hinduism, and Buddhaism, for that matter) has mechanisms built in whereby those who do violent acts may be condemned (i.e. “Love your neighbor as yourself”) Islam has no such teachings. There is absolutely nothing by which you may say to a Muslim jihadi “you are not acting in accordance with your own religion’s teachings.” For, of course, they are acting in accordence with such teachings.
Where’s moho, frothing and spewing non-sequiturs like spit off a fan belt?
Islam is a Hate and Death CULT and its all there in black and white in the evil Koran and the aHadith that describe the life and times of the paedophile, misogynistic, antisemitic, murderous, warlord, thief and INVENTOR of Islam the 20% Profit Old Mo. So the Missunderstanders of Islam are the PEACEFUL Muslims no matter what Mohammedan Taqiyya Mr misspelled Independent the Mohammedan excuser wants to tell you.
#11 Paul of Alexandria: How right you are the ‘GOLDEN RULE’ ‘Do unto others as you would be done by’ does not exist in Islam its all violence, honour killing and vengence.
Mohammed lied, murdered, and raped. Unless you change History. Who does Islam think is their perfect person to follow? That’s right, Mohammed.
Now, you know all you need to know about Islam.
Allah Akbar=allah is greatest. Greatest of what? All other pagan gods at the kabba? Ummmmm.
blotto,
You still don’t seem to understand the concept of my position. I’m not blaming any religion for violence. Religion is NOT the problem. I mention the number of Muslims to disprove certain beliefs. Such as the belief that Muslims are all evil; which is contradicted by the fact that only a tiny percentage of them are terrorists. Religion and violence is exclusive. Just like murdering women and children, blowing up churches, assassinating peaceful leaders, and lynching are exclusive from Christianity but not the terrorist organization the KKK. And I’m not a defender of Christianity, Islam or any religion per se (except my own). It is you blotto who do not understand. Just out of curiosity, have you ever read the Koran? If not how can you possibly have an informed opinion on the faith of Islam?
Pragmatist,
It’s a little silly for you to lecture anyone on misspelling anything. Have you ever read your comments before you post them? Perhaps you should do that so you don’t make mistakes like the ones below:
Post # 69 from: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/nidal-hasan-and-fort-hood-a-study-in-muslim-doctrine-part-1/#comments
In you last post you stated “when Mohammad was strong not Allah”, nowhere in the Koran is even suggested that Mohammad became God. Mohammad is not depicted at an avatar like Jesus Christ is in the Bible. I suspect that you’ve never read the Koran and are just cutting and pasting someone else’s opinion. Especially since in post #60 you referenced several suwar in the following format: [Shakir 9:5]. Shakir is not a sura of the Koran. HE was an Egyptian jurist who was credited (some think incorrectly) with translating the Koran.
Post #181 from: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/mayor-daley-blames-fort-hood-on-guns-not-islam/#comments
You apparently don’t understand even the most basic concepts of that faith. One comical example is in post #104 when you stated “in the NAME of their God allah”. The word Allah is the Arabic word for GOD not the name of GOD. An Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Jesus as Allah.
No you didn’t prove anything except that instead of reading the Koran and forming your own opinion of that faith; you instead just cut and pasted someone else’s opinions, with the same misspellings.
Let me ask you this Mr. Independant, where in the Bible does it say to spread Christianity by the sword? Now, you can find several passages in the Quran (or Koran if you like) exhorting the spread of Islam by the sword and to basically oppress the “People of the Book” until they convert to Islam. If they are not willing to meekly accept this oppression, called dhimmitude, they can be dealt with as brutally as pagans who must convert or be put to the sword.
Where in the Bible do you find similar instructions? Not even the OT, admittedly the most violent part of the Bible, tells the Jews to forcibly convert others to Judaism. God does tell various people to accede to His will, most famously Pharaoh, but it was never demanded that Pharaoh and the Egyptians renounce their gods and worship God.
Samizdat,
Well said. The only difference of opinion I would offer, is to not blame the victims. Muslims are the biggest victims of terrorism. The societies that the majority of islamic-terrorists are coming from are dictatorships. It is the bigoted men who rule those countries and the leaders of terrorist organizations that are creating islamic-terrorism. I agree that it is time to assume responsibility. We can eliminate terrorism by bringing democracy and capitalism to those who don’t have it.
Baraq Hussein Al-Bama,
Actually my grandchildren will be whatever they want to be. Hopefully they will be Buddhists.
Namaste
Is that you Solkar? #16, nobody called all Muslims evil. That is you misleading again. What some folks are writing, is Islam lends itself to evil behavior by following a false moon god, and Mohammed who murdered a lot.
Talk to you later.
I believe we must understand between
Islam and other relgion by know thier point of view in their own site and see what they talk about thier differnt view there
I agree that 80% of this below site is ok and I am not agree with all contents of this site below said:
http://www.al-islam.org/
Real Deal,
That’s a cool handle BTW. Anyway, the reason most Muslims don’t police themselves is because they can’t. Most Muslims live in dictatorships. Angry, bigoted, foreign rulers and evil terrorist leaders are the creators of terrorism not religion.
Leatherneck,
Many of the leaders and prophets of the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim holy books “lied, murdered, and raped”. The versus and suwar of the Torah, Bible, and Koran are metaphorical. BTW, Allah is the arabic word for God not the name of a particular religions God. An Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Jesus Christ as Allah.
Real Deal,
In response to your question in post #18 there is Mathew 10:34-35 which reads ‘Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth, I did not come to bring peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.’ Now I understand that verse in metaphorical. So if you believe that then why not believe the same about violent suwar from the Koran. BTW Exodus 20:2-3 might be of interest to you.
Mr.Independent,
I have not read the entire Koran, just as I have not read the entire Bible. However, that does not make ones observations about Islam invalid. Islam needs to straighten it’s self out and start self policing or there will be bigger trouble than you can imagine down the road. A few more terror incidents involving Islamic fundamentalism in the US and there will be very painful retribution.
Some misguided person, very uninformed on US histor
y wrote that my grand kids will be Islamist practitioners. Maybe in exercising their freedom of choice they will be, but I wouldn’t bet on it. It isn’t part of my family’s tradition or generally, part of our country’s majority theologic tradition, although Islam, like other minority religons, can be practiced in the US. Islam needs to clean up it’s treatment of the majority sex, before it is going to attract more popularity in the US. We are a very liberated society, one that is unlikely to find the restrictions imposed on women by the Koran to be appealing in our modern age. The Sharia dictates regarding dress, marriage comportment and divorce are not going to work for a society that values the sexes as equal in the west. Women have proven how out of step such thinking is today. It also runs completely counter to our Constitutional tradition.
These thoughts are ones that need to be considered carefully before making statements about Muslim religous dominance in the future.
Please save the blasphemy and infidel comments, it gets very old and very boring.
Hastings’ Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics states, “Allah” is a proper name, applicable only to their peculiar god.
That is why Mohammed did not have to explain who allah was to his fellow Arabs. They already knew who allah was. One of 360 false gods at the kabba.
Next lie please.
Mr Independent,
If most Muslims live in dictatorships they need to do something to change that. We took it upon ourselves to expend blood to get rid of an unjust ruler 230 years ago.
The misplaced blame on the west for Muslim represion is nausiating. Grow up and change your rulers. And be very careful, the Persians will tell you that the devil you don’t know can be worse than the devil you do know. They are rightfully damn sick of the corrupt “Muslim” rulers who repress them. Belatedly they are learning that their revolution of thirty years ago has put them into a bizarre interpretation of how to be ruled under the Koran. How pathetic and sad.
Now I understand that verse in metaphorical. So if you believe that then why not believe the same about violent suwar from the Koran.
Most people of average intelligence or not blinded by ideology can tell a metaphor from a non-metaphor. It’s not something you have to “believe” in the same sense that you “believe” in some metaphysical doctrine. Certainly the metaphor of “jihad” to refer to “inner struggle” is used in Islam. However, linguists have done analysis of its usage in the canonical works of Islam and it’s only used metaphorically about 3% of the time. Which is not surprising, since desert bandits of the 7th century aren’t exactly known for their rich inner life.
You can point to that 3% as normative for Islam all you want, but don’t expect people to believe you.
I have not read the entire Koran
I’ve only read the parts dealing with Muslim-’infidel’ interactions. The other parts are too nonsensical to take seriously as either philosophy or religion and I simply don’t care what Muslims think about anything except how they think they should treat “infidels”.
I’ll tell you what, Mr. Independent, since I believe in the “tit-for-tat” strategy of game theory, I promise to treat Muslims and their “culture” as well or poorly as they treat me and mine. After all, Muslims are “infidels” to me and since Islam is claimed to be the perfect religion, I can only assume that Muslims are willing to be treated as they would treat others. So, I’m going to lie to their faces, pretend to befriend them, watch for opportunities to strike at them and then, when the moment is right, make my move.
Leatherneck,
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the Hastings’ Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics written 100 years ago? It’s also my understanding that James Hastings didn’t speak Arabic; am I mistaken? Just a suggestion, the next time you comment on a particular topic perhaps you should learn to be always faithful to conducting research.
Samizdat,
In response to your post #26, I mostly agree. I’m a little confused by your final comment though. I’ve never made any blasphemy or infidel comments. What specifically were you referring too?
In response to your post #28, I again mostly agree with you. However, I haven’t blamed anyone (including the “west”) but the actual terrorists and the dictatorships that sponsor them for creating terrorism.
What I did say is that we can help by bringing them democracy and capitalism to them. It’s all well and good to complain about a problem, the question is what are you and we, going to do about it?
It’s also my understanding that James Hastings didn’t speak Arabic; am I mistaken? Just a suggestion, the next time you comment on a particular topic perhaps you should learn to be always faithful to conducting research.
Arabic is much poorer linguistically than English. Anything that can be expressed in Arabic can be accurately translated into English, even if multiple words must be used to render a conceptual term.
I studied Ancient Greek in college and Ancient Greek is MUCH richer a language than Arabic and I was able to translate 99.9% of the Greek stuff, including major philosophical works, into workable English.
You can not change History Solkhar, reguardless how much you want to. Just a suggestion enemy, dump your Islamic agenda somewhere elce. CAIR would love to hear from you.
Perhaps, you and CAIR can talk about what SoA, or SWT stands for.
# 17 Mr Mohammedan misspelled Independent how absolutely hilarious you critisise me for cutting and pasting and as examples ‘cut and paste’ two posts which YOU imply are mine except they aren’t . You really have lost it haven’t you in your desperate attempts to defend your evil violent CULT. You keep repeating tour moral equivalence mantra but when a religion supports and indeed mandates violence as Islams Koran does then it MUST be held to blame when its CULT members act EXACTLY as their book tells them to just as Mohammedans have done over 14000 times just since 9/11. To make any other conclusion is to be a willfully blind PC MC moonbat OR a member of a CULT desperate to defend is as YOU are.
Leatherneck,
Actually, I’m not this character Solkhar. But anyway on to your last post: You mentioned that you think I’m trying to change history. I don’t know what you’re writing about. Perhaps you might like to change the history of this article’s comments. Particularly the ones that make you look uninformed. And my only agenda is education and intelligent debate. Apparently you’re not interested in either. BTW were you able to find the answers to my questions about the Hastings’ Encyclopedia and its author? If not, that doesn’t sound like you’re being always faithful to research.
# 32 Mr so called misspelled Independent I therefor presume that you FULLY support the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and would like to see the USA invade OTHER demonic Terrorist supporting Mohammedan countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia , Yemen and Iran. Your answer will be interesting. BTW Mohammedans run and hide behind the Primitive AMBIGUOUS Ancient Arabic for precisely the fact that it is AMBIGUOUS so they can try to hide the violence, nonsense and insanity of the Koran. You also say some Koranic verses are Metarphorical or Allegorical therefore others must be literal so do you have a list of which is which and can you tell us WHO decides that. Because of course if you cannot tell us which is which and there is no list you can as Mohammedans always do argue BOTH ways when it suits them or when the wicked kaffirs invent something which makes the Koran look even more stupid than it already is.
Just for you Mr so called misspelled Independent excerpts from just SOME of the Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses. Waiting for you to tell us they are all METAPHORICAL and really mean PEACE AND LOVE.
Excerpt K 2:178-179
Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]…retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain… [2.179] …there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.
Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] …fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you…[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Excerpt K 2:193-194
Set 3, Count 5+6 [193]…fight with them…[194]…whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you…
Excerpt K 2:216-218
Set 4, Count 7-9 [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you…[2.217]… fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter…persecution is graver than slaughter… [2.218]…strove hard in the way of Allah…
Excerpt K 2:244
Set 5, Count 10 …fight in the way of Allah
Excerpt K 3:121-126
Set 6, Count 11-16 [3.121]…to lodge the believers in encampments for war…[3.122] When two parties from among you had determined that they should show cowardice [about Jihad]…[3.123]…Allah did certainly assist you at [the Battle of] Badr…[3.124]…[3.125] Yea! if you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels. [3.126] …victory is only from Allah…
Excerpt K 3:140-143
Set 7, Count 17-20 [3.140] If a wound has afflicted you (at [the Battle of] Uhud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you…[3.141] …that He [Allah] may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. [3.142] Yusuf Ali: Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without God testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? [3.143] Pickthall: And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it [death] with your eyes!
Excerpt K 3:146
Set 8, Count 21 Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah’s way) [Jihad], and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah’s way [lost a battle], nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 3:152-158
Set 9, Count 22-28 [3.152]…you slew them by His [Allah's] permission [during a Jihad battle]…[3.153] Pickthall: …the messenger, in your rear, was calling you (to fight)…that which ye missed [war spoils]…[3.154]…They say: Had we any hand in the affair, we would not have been slain here [in a Jihad battle]. Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained [in a Jihad battle] would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain…[3.155] (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met…[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain…[3.157]…if you are slain in the way of Allah…mercy is better than what they amass [what those who stay home from Jihad receive – no booty on earth and no perks in heaven]. [3.158] …if indeed you die or you are slain, certainly to Allah shall you be gathered together.
Excerpt K 3:165-167
Set 10, Count 29-31 [3.165]…you [Muslims] had certainly afflicted (the unbelievers) with twice as much [in a Jihad battle]…[3.166]…when the two armies met ([the Battle of] Uhud)…[3.167]…Come, fight in Allah’s way, or defend yourselves…If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you…
Excerpt K 3:169
Set 11, Count 32 …reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];
The list of Koranic JIHAD verses.
The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008
Pragmatist,
First of all I’m not implying anything. I stated specifically I don’t believe that you have even the most basic understanding of the Islamic faith. I illustrated that by pointing out various errors you made with your posts. But you’re telling me that those are not your posts. So let me get this straight, your alleging that the post that was made in the article below on post #15
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/nidal-hasan-and-fort-hood-a-study-in-muslim-doctrine-part-1/#comments
and post #104
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/mayor-daley-blames-fort-hood-on-guns-not-islam/#comments
that were written under you handle, were not written by you. OK that is the lamest response I’ve ever read on this website. And that’s really saying something.
Normally I would point out you that I haven’t made any moral equivalence or any defenses of any religion. And normally I would ask you to point out a specific instance when I did. But why bother. You’re don’t know what you talking about. You’ve never read the Koran or apparently the Bible. When your positions are disproven using your own comments, your response was that you didn’t write them. At first I thought your comments were pretty funny, now I pity you.
Or are they all HISTORICAL and the Koran is JUST a History Book and not as it claims ITSELF to be the ‘ACTUAL and UNALTERABLE word of allah’ and ‘for ALL men for all time’ . So what is it Mr Mohammedan misspelled Independent History Book or ACTUAL word of allah it cant be both unless of course allah is just a History Teacher.
No Mr Mohammedan misspelled Independent I am claiming the SCRIPT which you posted is not mine and by YOUR post you imply it is. Nobody reads a post and and follows links when you IMPLY that you have cut and pasted them in the post. Try again Mohammedan. I really DO know Islam and I was for a very short time a Mohammedan myself until I woke up to the EVIL reality of the CULT and I have read the Koran many times it was reading the Koran which opened my eyes about Islam. So I am an Apostate and YOU as a Mohammedan have the right and the DUTY to kill me, what a wonderful caring PEACEFUL CULT Islam is hey. When you compare religions as YOU have been doing and try to say they are all similar you are acting in a moral equivalence way or dont you even know THAT?
lets see Mr Mohammedan so called and misspelled Independent Posts # 104 and #15
# 104 “Pragmatist:
I see the Mohammedans and their moonbat apologists are still trying Tu Quoque BS by trying to equate Islamic TERRORISM with normal criminal actions. Criminals are motivated by greed and stupidity its only Mohammedans who kill and maim in huge numbers in the NAME of thier God allah.”
Did I write that yes I did do I stand by what i said YES I do is there a typo in there yes there is but NOT in my NICK like YOU.
# 15 Pragmatist:
“Its easy to explain why so many Muslims are peaceful it is THEY who are the MISUNDERSTANDERS of Islam. the Koran is a PRESCRIPTIVE book from a CULT which has a stated aim to rule the world . The Koran claims ITSELF to be the ‘ ACTUAL and UNALTERABLE word of God’ and to be ‘for ALL men for all time’. That being so it is very important to study this steaming heap of writing . It is violent, misogynistic, contradictory, anti semitic, and repetitious and that along with utter nonsense is what comprises the Koran. What peaceful verses there are , and they are very very few, come from the period when Mohammad and Islam were weak they are ABROGATED, a legitimate Muslim action, by the later WARLIKE violent verses made when Mohammad was strong. Note when Mohammad was strong not allah as he is just Mohammad’s sock puppet, So Mr so called Independant thats why some Mohammedans are peaceful because THEY Misunderstand the Koran and the example of Mohammad the thieving, paedophilic, misogynistic ,anti semitic,liar, cheat , murderer and warlord that they are told to EMULATE.”
Did I write this too YES I did and do I stand by it YES I do every word. No typos and the ONLY misspelling is where I misspell YOUR nick just like YOU do.
SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
Pragmatist,
You’re really too much. Perhaps you should look for a better website to cut and paste your comments from. I’m mean seriously, you’re very funny. In response to your post #39, concerning the verves of the Koran (if you had read the Koran you would know that their called suwar) there are in fact only 114. So what website are you cutting and pasting your comments from? I’m curious why they think there’s 164 suwar.
Mr misspelled so called Independent asks did I write these two posts
“#15
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/nidal-hasan-and-fort-hood-a-study-in-muslim-doctrine-part-1/#comments
and post #104
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/mayor-daley-blames-fort-hood-on-guns-not-islam/#comments”
I certainly did my Mohammedan friend and whats more I stand by every word I posted and what hurts YOU is that you know they are the TRUTH. Couple of typos so what at least I spell my NICK correctly.
# 44 so what is your argument Mr Mohammedan misspelled so called Independent that there are ONLY 114 VIOLENT EVIL verses in the Koran not 164 LOL how hilariously ridiculous you are.
“Mr. MISSPELLED Independant: wrote
“Pragmatist,
You’re really too much. Perhaps you should look for a better website to cut and paste your comments from. I’m mean seriously, you’re very funny. In response to your post #39, concerning the verses of the Koran (if you had read the Koran you would know that their called suwar) there are in fact only 114. So what website are you cutting and pasting your comments from? I’m curious why they think there’s 164 suwar.”
BTW Mr Misspelled I am still waiting for a response to my # 37 which I sent in response to your # 32. How strange you have avoided answering it…….NOT.
What Mohammad did todays jihadists do. It’s all in the Islamic histories recorded by DEVOUT Muslims not by “infidels”(chillingly Hisham admitted editing particularly bad bits out of the original biography by Ishaq).
I am happy to go through the biograpy. Shall we start with his religious upbringing with Hubal the chief idol in the kaba (Allah was the god/spirit behind Hubal) ?Please let’s have the contributoin of Muslim trolls.
“In response to your post #39, concerning the verves of the Koran (if you had read the Koran you would know that their called suwar”
The Qu’ran contains 114 suras (what we would call chapters) each of which has numerous verses.
For example, the Sura, Fatehah, contains seven verses…
1. In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2. All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
3. The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
6. Keep us on the right path.
7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
“I’m curious why they think there’s 164 suwar.”
That’s not what he said. He said there are 164 verses (concerning jihad), not 164 suras.
Mr Independent at 32,
My comment about infidels and blasphemy was directed at the intolerant Islamist types who make such accusations if you dare to dispute their interpretation of the supremacy of their theology.
The lack of self policing reveals everyday that Islam has alot to work on before it’s practitioners claim moral superiority over other religous beliefs. I am disgusted by the suicide bomber/Nidal Hasan type thinking that pervades the “strict constructionist” interpretation of Islam. These animals need to be confronted and weeded out by Muslims. I am not seeing enough discipline in this regard. The “strict constructionist” Imams need to understand the consequences of the intolerance and hate they spew. The Imam who buddied up to Hasan needs to be tracked down and brought to justice, he is responsible for instigation.
And by the way, the PC crowd that ignored the evil spewed by Hasan has alot of explaining to do. General Casey needs to get in touch with reality. His comment on the importance of diversity was despicable. Variety yes. Diversity no. Casey is responsible for failing to protect his soldiers and enforcing the military code that Hasan violated routinely. Hasan should have been dishonorable discharged for cause years ago when began to display his “strict constructionist” psychopathy.
Dave Surls,
You’re missing the larger context of the dialogue. In previous articles Pragmatist has attempted to refer to various suwar from the Koran and attempted to make specific references to them. He’s interchanged between using the word verse and chapter without distinguishing between them. The plural of sura is suwar. The plural of ayah is ayat. He’s never used those terms in the proper reference to the Koran. He frequently misspelled those terms (identically to other posters BTW) and has actually never even used to the term ayah. That’s my point. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s just cutting and pasting someone else’s opinions.
leigh,
Allah is the arabic word for God, not the name of any particular religion’s God. An arabic speaking Christian would refer to Jesus Christ as Allah. Before you begin a debate on something perhaps you should research what you’re writing about. I would suggest the Koran.
BTW Exodus 20:2-3 might be of interest to you.
Why? God is speaking directly to the Israelites, whom at the time were God’s chosen people. It is the rules of the Covenant he is reiterating to them.
Exodus 20:
1 – And God spoke all these words:
2 – “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 – “You shall have no other gods before me.
The second verse specifically denotes the Jews, because He didn’t didn’t bring any other people out of Egypt there is no confusion as to whom God is communicating to. Keep trying.
As to most Muslims living in dictatorships, you ever wonder why that is? Why democracy is such a foreign concept? How about those millions of Muslims living in Europe and America? Why is it they have immigrated to a land where they are free but so many still try to bring the chains of Sharia Law to their new country paving the way for a regression of that nation to a dictatorship. Islam isn’t about freedom, its about submission, submission to Mohammed, submission to Allah, and submission to those in power.
Actually the name “Allah” refers to a specific god worshiped at the Kaaba, one of a multitude at the time, Mohammed chose this god as his one true god and then associated him with the God of the Jews and Christians claiming they were one and the same. An Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Jesus as Jesus or Christ, perhaps with a slight lingual twist such as Cristo in Spanish for example but not Allah. Jesus or Christ refers specifically to the Son, God the Father would be more likely to have the name Allah applied to Him than than Jesus.
Pragmatist,
In response to post #43, the general point is that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Specifically, you wrote in post #104 of the article I linked to in post #40 “in the NAME of thier God allah”. Allah is the Arabic word for God, not the name of any particular religion’s God. An Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Jesus Christ as Allah. In post #104 of the article I linked in post #40 you wrote “Note when Mohammad was strong not allah”. Nowhere in the Koran is it even suggested the Muhammad was God or became God. Muhammad was a prophet not an avatar. You stated in several posts that you stand by your comments and that the only misspelling were with my handle (and I know how the word independent is spelt) Mr. Independant. You still think that you know what you’re talking about but you don’t. You don’t know the difference between a sura and a ayah. You don’t understand what the Koran depicts Muhammad’s relationship to God is, and you don’t even understand what the word Allah means. These are basic concepts. They have nothing to do with the moral implications of the Koran (which can be debated). They have everything to do with demonstrating your total lack of understand about the religion of Islam.
Finally, my original post #17 was completely accurate. I quoted you verbatim. Go back and read the post. Is there anything in quotations marks (they look like these “ “) that you didn’t write? The answer is no. You did write those comments and I even provided a link to the article where you did. You can wish all you want that your posts will disappear but they won’t. But please continue, I find you very entertaining.
Real Deal,
In response to post #53, I’m not trying anything. You stated in post #18 “it was never demanded that Pharaoh and the Egyptians renounce their gods and worship God” I thought that the 10 commandments applied to all of mankind. That was the reason for the reference to Exodus.
Democracy is a foreign concept to most people who don’t enjoy its benefits. During the American Civil War there were actually slaves that were fighting for the rebellion. Do you really think that they wanted to aid the creation of the ‘CSA’? Of course not. You also point to the millions of Muslims that have immigrated to western countries and then imply that they all want to bring Sharia Law with them. How many of those people actually do that? If you don’t know, don’t you think that is important?
Finally the word Allah does not in fact refer to a specific religion’s God. It is the Arabic word for God. I’m not sure what the point of your comparison between Arabic and Spanish is. Your comment about pagan gods is not supported by anything in the Koran. Now it is my understanding that the majority of all Christians (Catholics and Orthodox) do not view their faith as being polytheistic; that the trinity is one and the same. Am I mistaken? The word Allah would be correctly used when referring to Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
I thought that the 10 commandments applied to all of mankind.
Yes and no.
Commandments 1-4 are specific to the Jews (and later Christians) to keep the Covenant while 5-6 are common to almost every religion known to man. They are common sense for a functioning society.
5) “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
“You shall not steal.
6) “You shall not murder.
7) “You shall not commit adultery.
9) “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
10) “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Parents generally have the benefit of experience and learning from their experience can make your life easier, thus “honor your father and mother”. The rest are pretty obvious and don’t need explanation.
As for the Holy Trinity, they are one and the same yet distinct aspects of God and not used interchangeably. God the Father not die upon the cross, nor did the Holy Spirit, Jesus did.
“At the time of Muhammad (CE 570-632), his tribe the Quraysh was in charge of the Kaaba, which was at that time a shrine containing hundreds of idols representing Arabian tribal gods and other religious figures, including Jesus and Mary.”
“In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, Allah was not considered the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters – a concept which Islam thoroughly and resolutely abrogated. In Islam, the name Allah is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. All other divine names are believed to refer back to Allah. Allah is unique, the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent. Arab Christians today use terms such as Allāh al-ʼAb ( الله الأب, “God the Father”) to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage.”
I reiterate, Allah was the name of a pagan god whom Mohammed elevated to “one god” status, making it the “all-comprehensive” name. And while you are slightly correct in that tradition has expanded its linguistic usage, just because I decide to call all religion’s gods or a significant number of Latino men Jesus and it catches on doesn’t change the fact that Jesus is Jesus Christ and doesn’t make them Jesus Christ either. By taking the term/name Allah and making it all comprehensive Mohammed was attempting to co opt the God of Abraham and add a little “lube” to forced conversion. “See Mr. Independant, Buddha is really just another name for Allah, so really you’ve been praying to Allah all along. Why don’t you just go ahead and submit, that way you won’t have to find out if I’ve sharpened my sword lately…”
I thought that the 10 commandments applied to all of mankind.
Yes and no.
Commandments 1-4 are specific to the Jews (and later Christians) to keep the Covenant while 5-6 are common to almost every religion known to man. They are common sense for a functioning society.
5) “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
“You shall not steal.
6) “You shall not murder.
7) “You shall not commit adultery.
9) “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
10) “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Parents generally have the benefit of experience and learning from their experience can make your life easier, thus “honor your father and mother”. The rest are pretty obvious and don’t need explanation.
As for the Holy Trinity, they are one and the same yet distinct aspects of God and not used interchangeably. God the Father not die upon the cross, nor did the Holy Spirit, Jesus did.
“At the time of Muhammad (CE 570-632), his tribe the Quraysh was in charge of the Kaaba, which was at that time a shrine containing hundreds of idols representing Arabian tribal gods and other religious figures, including Jesus and Mary.”
“In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, Allah was not considered the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters – a concept which Islam thoroughly and resolutely abrogated. In Islam, the name Allah is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. All other divine names are believed to refer back to Allah. Allah is unique, the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent. Arab Christians today use terms such as Allāh al-ʼAb ( الله الأب, “God the Father”) to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage.”
I reiterate, Allah was the name of a pagan god whom Mohammed elevated to “one god” status, making it the “all-comprehensive” name. And while you are slightly correct in that tradition has expanded its linguistic usage, just because I decide to call all religion’s gods or a significant number of Latino men Jesus and it catches on doesn’t change the fact that Jesus is Jesus Christ and doesn’t make them Jesus Christ either. By taking the term/name Allah and making it all comprehensive Mohammed was attempting to co opt the God of Abraham and add a little “lube” to forced conversion. “See Mr. Independant, Buddha is really just another name for Allah, so really you’ve been praying to Allah all along. Why don’t you just go ahead and submit, that way you won’t have to find out if I’ve sharpened my sword lately…”
The Encyclopedia of Islam page 303 states, Prior to Islam’s beginning each Arab tribe used Allah to refur to its own particular high god.
This is why Hubal, the moon god,(known by other names), was the central foccs of prayer at the Kaaba, and people prayed to Hubal and they used the name Allah.
Allah Akbar means allah is greatest of all other false gods, Allah is not the G-d of the Jews, or Christians.
Allah, Hubal, and Sin are all the same name for a false moon god. One can not change History. This is why the moon is on the Mosques, When does Ramadan end? When the fingernail of the god shows itself.
Mohammed grew up in a house that worshiped the moon god, and Allah’s his daughters. His father’s name is from the moon god. The Chief god at the kaaba was called Allah.
Islam is a death cult, wraped around a political system, following a mad who murderd, raped, and lied. It continues today everywhere we find Islam.
Leatherneck,
Who is the publisher and editor of the ‘The Encyclopedia of Islam’? I ask because I don’t think you’re actually referencing it.
Real Deal,
Hmmm, so you’re telling me that the first four Commandments of the Bible do not apply to of all of mankind but only to Jews and Christians. I missed that part in the Bible; could you tell what book and verse that is from?
On the word Allah, I’m confused again. You’re telling me that I’m right but I’m also wrong. According to you “Allah is unique, the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent” but not the same God of Abraham. In post #53 you wrote “An Arabic speaking Christian would refer to Jesus as Jesus or Christ perhaps with a slight lingual twist such as Cristo in Spanish for example but not Allah” and now you’re saying “Arab Christians today use terms such as Allāh al-ʼAb”. I’m not sure if I’m more confused with your contradicting statements or if you’re more confused with your beliefs. I don’t say that to be smug but read your last few posts; taken together they are really confusing. And nowhere in the Koran is what you suggested written.
Finally, it’s been my experience that when someone on this website has their beliefs disproven and they resort the childish comments, it’s usually an indication that their not expressing their own beliefs but someone else’s. Is that the case with you? Are you just cutting and pasting someone else’s opinion? Your last comments were very immature and serve no purpose. If you’re resorting to such behavior because you are uniformed, it would be much more productive for you to educate yourself (i.e. reading and asking questions) instead of making childish comments. BTW Siddhartha Gautama was not God but a spiritual teacher of the most peaceful religion in human history.
“Dave Surls, You’re missing the larger context of the dialogue.”
Nope. Just explaining what the difference between a sura and a verse is, because there seemed to be a little confusion.
Dave Surls,
I know; that was part of my point. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the overall theme of the article?
Conversely, if the Fort Hood massacre causes Americans to begin taking Islam’s doctrines more seriously, the thirteen slain, while dying tragically, will not have died in vain.
Perhaps, but it seems like an absurdly high price to pay for an understanding that should have been clear to anyone with even a passing understanding of the bellicosity of certain Koranic passages.
Maybe that’s too much to ask of the average, self-indulgent American. After all, we have Congresscritters (like Silvestre Reyes of the House “intelligence” committee) who can’t even distinguish Sunni from Shi’ite.
Anyway, didn’t Major Hasan blow his Islamist credentials by paying for all those “lap dances” from the local Texas girls ? Reportedly, many of the guys participating in 911 had some similar proclivities.
Mr.indepenedent
” Khomeini accordingly delivered notorious rebuke to the Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace crowd: “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]…. Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur’anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”
So you are cheating us?
Thiagan,
No, I just don’t think that you are in any position to pass a moral judgment on anything. On post #136 in the article below, you promoted the murder of innocent people.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/islamist-perfidy-and-western-naivety-which-is-more-lethal/
That being said, you have no credibility advocating against terrorism since you condone it.
Mr.Independent(65)
Being a jihadi supporter and an aspiring applauder of Islamic genocides, you think you can practise moral and cultural relativism. Ha!Ha!!Ha!!!
You never said anything abour Churchill quote
Thiagan,
Actually I’m not a supporter of any terrorism. You still don’t seem to understand the concept of my position. I don’t condone any type of terrorism. You on the other do. As your comments that I quoted from my last post demonstrate. That being said you have no credibility to condemn terrorism since you support it. BTW your quote was from Charles De Gaulle not Winston Churchill.
Islam is not a religion per se; it is a political mobilisation that includes religion, military, social rules and statecraft. You are fraudulently attempting to market Islam as a religion. Any support to this deathly cult is an obvious support to terrorim.
I never supported terrorism but riots in response to terror attacks. That is constructive response.
Here is the idol worship associated with Allah from the Sirat Mohammad was familiar with Allah/Hubal as it can be seen from the history noted below written by the “original” devout Muslim scholars(rather than the ignorant karen Armstrongs of this world!)It is no surprise he assumed allah to be his sole god(/idol of his religion. Muslims are in a state of ignorance unless they understand the origins of their god. The irony is that reading the Quran doesnt help them to do this!
P 38 of Sirat each house pre Islam had an idol that they used to worship.
Note Sahih Muslim Book 30, Number 5654:
Jabir b. Samura reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I recognise the stone in Mecca which used to pay me salutations before my advent as a Prophet and I recognise that even now.
Note in Exodus 34:13 Yahweh commands the Israelites to destroy the sacred stones of the pagans
P66 refers to the idol Hubal in context of bringing a son to sacrifice to God at the kaba
P67 refers to Muttalib (Mohammad’s grandfather) standing by Hubal praying to Allah
P70 Muttalib takes Mohammad before Hubal and prays to Allah
The Western culture doesn’t address man’s psychology and what Nizal did is the result of a media of negligence and cognitive conflict.While I as a Muslim reject violence and the killing of people whomsoever they are. I can see that it was the USA media that created and fueled motives such as that of Nizal. Remember Gaza and the killing of children then contrast the images of the Gaza and Iraq massacre with the way Weterners deal with pets specially dogs. Besides permissiveness which allows pornography and shows man (men and women equal to beasts)Think of Bush and the whorish administration who occupied, killed and massacred innocent people. Major Nizal felt it was his duty to revenge. And it was US mistake to recruit Muslims in its Army after all.We hope that violence will be uprooted from the world and let’s pray for that.
Thiagan,
So let me get this straight. Islam is not a religion but it includes religion. Can you name any other instance were something is a religion but is also not a religion? That does make any sense. And exposing ignorance is not support for anything, except learning. Only one of us (YOU) supports terrorism. You advocate murdering innocent civilians via riots; that’s terrorism. That being said you have no credibility to condemn terrorism, since you advocate for it.
Here is what Churchill said:
“But the really interesting comparison is Winston Churchill’s, though he did it the other way around. It comes on p. 50 of From War to War, the first part of the first volume of his 6-part Second World War. Chapter 4 deals with Adolf Hitler, including a close look at Mein Kampf, which Churchill called “the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.”
Thiagan,
Ok, you seem to have a very hard time understanding my position on you. I’ll make it simple. Others can express their positions on the evils done in the name of religion but YOU can’t. You support committing terrorism. You advocate staging riots so you can murder thousands of innocent civilians. The value of any particular religion is something that can be debated but you have no credibility to do so. You’re a supporter of mass murder. You’re a supporter of terrorism. And you have no standing to pass any moral judgment on anything.
Salah Ali,
Seriously, you want to blame the media, pets, and pornography. Did it ever occur to you that Nidal Hassan is simply a terrorist? Blaming the media, pets, and pornography is really absurd. There’s no evidence that the ‘media’ knew of Hassan’s intentions and tried to cover it up. There’s no indication that Hassan used to kill animals for pleasure, and the pornography excuse has been tried, tested, disproven, and made those who believe in it look silly. Except for the Army’s lack of internal security, the only people you should be blaming are the terrorists who were encouraging him and the states the sponsor terrorism.
leigh,
I’ve seen that same opinion posted by other posters on this website. In fact it looks identical to other ones I’ve read. Are you just cutting and pasting someone else’s opinion? This is getting very dull. How many other posters on this site do you think are using that same website that you are? Here’s a novel idea; why don’t you research this topic for yourself. That means reading the Koran. BTW in your last post (which you apparently just cut and pasted from someone else) is not supported by anything in the Koran.
Mr.Inde (73)
I fully understand what you are trying to state. It is the fact you refuse to realise the difference between terrorism and riots. It is your desire that non muslims should not retalliate against the fanatics for their acts of terrorism and should silently bear with them. That is unacceptable.
Name one counrywhere muslims treat others with equity and justice. There is no one. Hence muslims are not entitled to just treatment.
Thiagan,
Staging riots with the sole purpose of murdering innocent civilians is terrorism. And you not talking about waging war against terrorists or terrorist organizations, you want to murder innocent civilians, again that’s terrorism. We’ve been over your points before. I’ve shown how history and other faiths disprove your beliefs. And in case you still don’t understand, I’m not interested in your opinions, ideas, or suggestions. You are a supporter of mass murder and terrorism.
Mr.Independent
Here is another Churchill quote.
“Several generations have elapsed since the nations of the West have drawn the sword in religious controversy and the evil memories of the gloomy past have soon faded in the strong, clear light of Rationalism and human sympathy…But the Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword, and ever since its votaries have been subject, above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness. In a moment, the fruits of patient toil, the prospects of material prosperity, the fear of death itself, are flung aside…Seizing their weapons, they become Ghazis (warriors for Islam) – as dangerous and as sensible as mad dogs: fit only to be treated as such…The forces of progress clash with those of reaction. The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually better armed.” (from Churchill By Himself: The Definitive Collection of Quotations.)
Thiagan,
Once again, I’m not interested in your comments, ideas, opinions, or suggestions. You are a supporter of mass murder and terrorism.
Mr.Independent (79)
Unable to bear the assault, you have decided to abscond. You have delusion that you are better informed than Churchill. Every brainwashed folower has the delusion.
Thiagan,
Correction:
I have NO interest in the opinions of someone who supports mass murder and terrorism, which you do.
Mr Indepemdent? Show me the copies of other contributions that are identical to
my contributionYs. ou dont answer the points at all as you have no answer. As you know Allah in the quran doesnt like questions. Infidels at least know why
The texts below are from my very useful copy of the Sirat book and hadiths from the internet USC Jewish/ Muslim site.
!
Here are Quranic and hadith verses about the name of Islam’s god.
2.133
YUSUFALI: Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship Thy god (Ilah) and the god (Ilah) of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam).”
3.62
YUSUFALI: This is the true account: There is no god (Ilah) except Allah; and Allah-He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
5.4
YUSUFALI: They ask thee what is lawful to them (as food). Say: lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure: and what ye have taught your trained hunting animals (to catch) in the manner directed to you by Allah: eat what they catch for you, but pronounce the name of Allah over it: and fear Allah; for Allah is swift in taking account (if Allah means God what name of Allah is Allah commanding the believer to pronounce over it?)
17.110
YUSUFALI: Say: “Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between.”
20.14
YUSUFALI: “Verily, I am Allah: There is no god (Ilah) but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.
20.97
YUSUFALI: (Moses) said: “Get thee gone! but thy (punishment) in this life will be that thou wilt say, ‘touch me not’; and moreover (for a future penalty) thou hast a promise that will not fail: Now look at thy god (Ilah), of whom thou hast become a devoted worshipper: We will certainly (melt) it in a blazing fire and scatter it broadcast in the sea!”
59:22
YUSUFALI: Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Hadiths
Muslim:C10B1N177 “The Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent us to raid Huraqat, a tribe of Arabs. We attacked the tribe early in the morning and defeated them. I and an Ansar man caught hold of a person of the defeated tribe. When we overcame him, he said: ‘There is no ilah but Allah.’ At that moment the Ansari spared him, but I attacked him with my spear and killed him. The news had already reached the Apostle, so when we came back he said: ‘Usama, did you kill him after he had made the profession: “There is no ilah but Allah?.’ I said. ‘He did it only as a shelter.’ ‘Did you kill him after he had made the profession.’ He went on repeating this to me till I wished I had not embraced Islam.”
Mr.Independent (81)
Islam is indeed a religion of peace. Read what Churchill said. Ha!Ha!!Ha!!!
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
Thiagan,
You are obviously not a person of peace. In the article below you advocate murdering thousands of innocent civilians (not terrorists).
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/islamist-perfidy-and-western-naivety-which-is-more-lethal/
You stated “Once in five years there should be riots in which thousands of muslims will be killed.” Staging riots for the purpose of committing mass murder is terrorism. So it doesn’t matter what you quotes you produce to support your claims, because you are a supporter of terrorism. The issue isn’t what a long dead politician may or may not have written; it’s what you wrote that matters. That being said, you have no credibility advocating against terrorism since you condone it.
leigh,
If you mean has anyone ever made me look dishonest or silly by identifying posts I’ve made that were just copied from another commenter or if I’ve ever been caught lying? My answer is no; I have no such ‘contributions’ that are identical to yours. I do you give you credit though, at least you admit you’re just cutting and pasting someone else’s opinion. Now the reason why doing so is counterproductive, is demonstrated by the rest of your post. Your post includes several grammatical errors that are identical to what I’ve read other posters write. Specifically you attempted to identify suwar and ayat from the Koran in the following format: 2.133 YUSUFALI. That’s improper because YUSUFALI is not the name of a specific chapter of the Koran (a sura) but the name of an Indian scholar. The correct spelling of his name is Abdullah Yusuf Ali. Instead of actually reading the Koran you’re relying on someone else’s interpretation of what is written in the Koran. Look, if you want to learn about a particular faith doesn’t it make sense to study their holy book? I’m very much interested in a honest debate about religion and how it does not relate to terrorism but those who wish to debate with me must have an understanding of what their writing about.
BTW your post #69 is disproven by your post #82 where you wrote “We shall worship Thy god (Ilah) and the god (Ilah) of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow” which should have read ‘We will worship your god; the god of your fathers Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac; the one god. To Him we are submitters’. If you decide to respond try doing so without cutting and pasting someone else’s opinion.
Dear fellow readers,
I don’t usually let myself revel in schadenfreude, but I must admit I’m enjoying watching “Mr.Independant” get his Islamo-sympathetic posterior soundly kicked.
Hey “Mr. Independant”, we’ve all read your inane “religion is not the cause of terrorism, terrorists are” arguement. The reason Mr. Ibrahim hasn’t responded to your question/argument is because he is a brilliant scholar and recognizes the stupidity of your position…..as we all do.
“Mr. Independant”, if you do not understand that some religions/ideologies (not all, but certainly some, definitely NAZIsm and Islam for example) can provide the foundation and motivation for creating lots and lots of evil terrorists, then we can only assume you are denser than the Fantastic Fours Benjamin Grimm after he was irradiated with gamma rays and transformed into “The Thing”.
The simple fact that Mr. Ibrahim and most of the readers here understand is that with Islam, in word, ideology and deed, res ipsa loquitur. Allah is violent, Muhammed is violent, the Koran is violent, Jihad is violent, the spread of Islam is violent…..Islam is violent.
So….keep on spouting your ridiculous theory, and we will keep laughing at you.
Best regards “Mr. Independant” (or should we call you “The Thing”?),
~The Infidel Alliance
The so called “The Infidel Alliance”
You didn’t respond to my last post to you in the first article of this series, so I’m reposting this comment:
According to posts you’ve written in previous articles, there is no room for interpretation in the Koran. I happen to disagree but you have stated repeatedly that you don’t. You’re contradicting yourself again. So what translation specifically are you using? Or more precisely, what website are you cutting and pasting your ‘opinions’ from? I’m very certain you haven’t actually read the Koran. You’ve made certain grammatical errors in your ‘quotes’ that are identical to ones I’ve read from other posters.
On your repeated attempts at moral equivalency, I’ve already pointed out that the actions described in the Bible about Abraham are very similar to Muhammad. Rape, slavery, theft, murder, and terrorism are all depicted in the Bible. Unlike you, I think both the Bible and the Koran are allegorical. Thus your position that Islam is responsible for creating terrorism (unless your beliefs are based on bigotry and hatred) is completely disingenuous unless you also believe that Christianity is responsible for terrorism as well. Religion is not responsible for creating terrorism. Evil men are. Which is why when 15% of American ‘Christians’(circa 1920’s) were members of the terrorist organization the KKK the other 85% of American Christians didn’t need to renounce Abraham and the Bible in order to right the wrongs of the KKK. Likewise the 99% of Muslims that are peaceful don’t need to renounce anything except terrorism and the dictatorships that most of them live in.
Look most people don’t like to be proven wrong. Most people don’t like to be shown that their ignorant. And most people don’t like to be caught lying. I’ve clearly demonstrated that all three apply to you. If you’d like to change those things, try reading the Koran so that you can have an intelligent debate with someone about the religion of Islam.