New Poll Finds Americans Really, Really Do Not Want ObamaCare (PJM Exclusive)
Today, the Center for Medicine in the Public Interest Advance (CMPI-A), in partnership with Pajamas Media, is releasing national survey data on Americans’ views of the proposed health care reform legislation before Congress. CMPI-A leads the national grassroots initiative, Hands OFF My Health, a campaign that seeks to raise public awareness and better inform Americans about the potential costs and consequences of government-run health care. From Dr. Robert Goldberg, president of CMPI-A:
The poll suggests that Americans oppose how the health care bill is being passed and want more debate and a more democratic approach. … The potential of House Democrats sending the Senate bill to the president without an up or down vote is clearly counter to public sentiment and in strong opposition to the meager support for the tax increases, Medicare cuts and subsidies embedded in the reform bill. Not to mention, there remains strong public opposition to empowering government panels to set limits on future access to care and what kind of health plans the uninsured can have. What Americans do support are proposals to buy plans that reward healthy behavior, encourage saving and investing for future health needs, and policies that reward future treatments and cures.
The CMPI-A/PJM poll demonstrates an extremely high level of concern with the current bill:
· Six in ten Americans (60%) agree that a current Democrat proposal to send the Senate health care bill to the president without voting up or down on it is “unfair.”
· Most Americans oppose (81%) health care reforms that would increase insurance premiums for healthy people to offset premiums of people who wait until they are diagnosed with an illness to purchase insurance.
· Eight Americans in ten (81%) oppose allowing the government to decide what kind of health care coverage Americans are able to purchase.
· Most Americans (87%) oppose having a government panel recommend or decide what medical procedures or medical advances your doctor or health plan can or cannot use.
· More than eight Americans in ten (84%) support reforms that would allow people to buy health insurance where it is the least expensive, such as across state lines.
· Three in four Americans (76%) oppose health care reforms that would raise taxes and cut Medicare benefits to pay for health care subsidies for expanded coverage for those currently insured.
· Eight Americans in ten (78%) support health care reforms that would let people buy less costly health plans and save and invest for health care needs in the future on a tax-free basis.
· Half of Americans (51%) oppose health care reforms that would let people lock-in premiums by paying more for their insurance.
· Most Americans (85%) support health care reforms that would let people get lower premiums for getting or staying healthy.
· Eight Americans in ten (82%) support the idea that more money should be invested in the development of cures for the most devastating diseases.
Polls are un reliable at best. This one is no different.
Lets see the questions that they asked. You can make a poll say anything you want with the right questions.
Approximately 80% of Americans seem to be in relative agreement over the major healthcare issues, that is if it is the same 80% voting for what seem to be logical solutions. Thus demands the question, “Who are the 20% who oppose?” A. Inner-city government-dependent class? B. Illegal aliens C. Monied, socialist elites? D. President Obama and Congressional Democrats E. All the above.
And that leaves the 80% to be average, working-class Americans struggling to remain healthy, earn a living, and make ends meet.
Firestopper; If you were an honest commenter, you would have realized that PJM has included a link to the raw data RIGHT UNDER THE ARTICLE TITLE.
Now begone you troll.
I don’t know anyone that I see on a daily basis that’s excited to get this health care reform made into law. And of those that understand the mechanics of legislation, none that I know like the current methods currently in the works to pass the bill on to the Presidents desk. If this is so damned popular among democrats, why then is the President, Speaker and majority leader fighting democrats to flip their votes to yes and trust that any issues will be corrected once the bill is law?
Firestopper you sound like the same bunch that are backing Pelosi Reid and the Half Breed Muslim Communist snake that you have as a president .I don’t care if it was 99% of the people stood infront of the white house and said NO!!!!!!!!!!! the low life bast–ds would still find a way to illegaly push down our throats .This would be a perfect place for one of Ovomits mid east buddies to slither in with a suicide suit on and do there job
Firestopper – the poll questions are linked. They seem pretty clear. What is really interesting is that other pollsters have framed the questions so that one see a bare majority against the bill. When I see these questions and numbers, it seems like Gallup, Pew, and the like who are doing more manipulation.
“If this is so damned popular among democrats”
This bill is very popular among those Democrats who attended the “best” schools. A growing government guarantees added jobs and power for the elites. Also, there is something else you need to realize: they will not be participating in these new government health programs! These folks will be receiving their health care from entirely different sources. At the end of the day, the elites are only worrying about themselves.
NO NEW HEALTH CARE!!!!!
I THINK THE DEMOS ARE TRYING TO PUSH THIS MASSIVE HEALTH CARE WITH NOT CARING ABOUT WHAT WE AMERICANS THINK!!!!!!
Don’t feed the trolls!
Every time you mention firelighters name he gets a quarter.
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Everyone misses the point.
The Health-care tax is not about health care, it is about continuing Bambie’s spending and paying interest on the National gazillion Ponzie debt that Democrats plan to run into the next decade.
(please don’t tell Obama that gazillion comes after a trillion!)
If 200 million Americans pay $6,000 a year for the next 10 years, congressional democrats can buy a private Caribbean island, put houses on their property with gold toilets,
and fart through silk sheets.
And you thought they were dumb and pushy?
Like pretty much all such recent polls, it’s worthless since it doesn’t indicate at all how much or how little the people polled actually know about any of this stuff going in. Indeed, other polls show that the public overall hasn’t a clue.
One must realize there is no longer a by the, for the, going on. We now, not to be or will be, but are now in an environment where each of us must do as we are told to do in the constitution. We must rise up and form a new Gov. that is (for the by the). This Gov. is completely corrupt and filled with all that the founders warned about. Weather Republican or Democrats they are all paid for not only (in small part by our tax dollars) but in a larger part special interests. Be it Pharmaceuticals, Banks, Weaponry, or just an asphalt contractor looking for a special favor for a job. We are controlled by those who would be to their own ends and not the people. RISE UP, RISE UP I SAY, THE FOUNDING FATHERS DEMANDED IT. TYPING IN A BLOG IS A WAIST OF YOUR TIME.
After #4, #6 & #7, I imagine that Firestopper has wet his/her pants and gone home (probably to koskids or puffington host). Good riddance and keep your friends away, lest they suffer the same fate. Your arguments are devoid of facts.
Blog Post:
First off, We the Patients have been left out of the negotiation. All I’ve seen are meetings with doctors, lawyers, insurance company’s, pharmaceutical company’s, union bosses, and politicians (who are not affected by this disaster because they have voted themselves lifetime premium medical coverage that is not accessible to the rest of us 300 million citizens) Glaringly absent from the negotiation are any private individuals? Why is that?
Washington has forgotten what insurance is. Insurance is nothing more than a hedge against loss in the event of a catastrophe. Insurance companies do not provide health care. They do not develop new technologies or make medical advances. They simply hedge against financial ruin in the event of a major illness or injury. Here’s my thoughts on a starting place for health reform?
1. Care providers should have to post their prices for their services and should not be able to charge a different price depending on who’s paying the bill. Should a gas station charge you a higher price if you’re paying with a company gas card? If providers are forced to disclose prices and compete for your business, price comes down. In some industries “Negotiated Rates” might be referred to as collusion and is illegal. And, if I’m not mistaken there are 31 States with Anti-Price gouging laws in an emergency, why are these laws not applicable in a medical emergency? Why do we accept this from health care providers? 3rd party payer is the root of the problem why prices are so high.
2. Basic care and maintenance like check-ups, doctor visits, etc. should be paid directly by the consumer. If medical care providers have to disclose their prices and consumers are responsible to pay for their own care watch how quickly care costs come down. Look at cosmetic and Lasik surgery and veterinary medicine. Insurance doesn’t cover it so providers must find a way to compete for your business and they do this by either lowering cost or increasing services. And, If insurance companies are not responsible for every medical bill then they will lower their premiums and when individuals pay less in premiums it frees up more money to pay for regular medical care. You don’t expect your homeowners insurance to cover when your dishwasher breaks or plumbing backs up. What would your car insurance premiums be if they had to cover oil changes and tuneups? Premiums come down if insurance is only used as intended.
3. Congress should pass legislation to prohibit the “pre-existing” conditions denial of insurance and return insurance to its original intent which is a hedge against loss in a catastrophic event or illness. Think outside the box on how risk is pooled. Risk pools are arbitrary and need to be completely open in order to spread risk. Instead of mandating everyone must buy coverage, they should mandate that insurers must cover everyone. Insurers play the odds that most people live healthy lives and make money when people pay premiums for long periods of time with no incidents or claims and yes they must pay those claims when they occur but if they are receiving premiums from a huge number of people who don’t get cancer as most don’t or become injured in a fiery crash as most don’t, then they make profits and employ people and the industry contributes to the economy. But insurers don’t need to pay higher prices (“negotiated rates”) charged by care providers because all that does is raise premiums.
4. All insurance should be sold individually and not provided through employers. This way, if you lose your job you don’t lose your insurance. If an employer wants to pay an amount toward your premium as a part of a benefits package that’s between you and them and not mandatory. If you lose your job, you simply lose that employers contribution toward your premium but your next employer may pick it up as part of their benefit’s package again, that’s negotiated between you an that employer.
5. Propose a plan to END medicare and medicaid. These are unsustainable entitlements that hinder fairness and competition and fleece taxpayers out of their earnings for something they will not benefit from. I say do the hard thing now! For seniors who are currently using the system, they should continue to receive these services because they have paid into this system on the promise of receiving benefits. To reduce or remove it from them now is theft and Americans are NOT promise breakers who go back on their word. However we need a plan to phase out medicare and medicaid over a period of time so that we have something better in place by the time the next generation of seniors arrive; Something that better reflects The United States of America not The United Socialist States of America. We are NOT a socialist nation and that has served us well for some 230 years. Why fix what ain’t broken?
6. Any any new bill needs to make absolutely clear that absolutely NO Abortions will be paid for with tax payer dollars. The Bill of Rights – Amendment I – states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…..” One of the ways I “freely exercise” my religion is to not kill babies, If this is true then congress canNOT pass any law forcing me to subsidize with my taxes something that violates my free exercise of my religion, which is to not kill babies.
This a good starting point in any meaningful discussion on real health care reform. Unfortunately, Washington is not interested in the truth or reasoned debate.
“Half Breed Muslim Communist snake” – clearly a rational argument, and I thought the art of discussion had been lost. The poll does not really say that much. The question do you want to pay more money, is going to have pretty much the same answer from anyone. Plus the first question is very deceptive. I would like to see what percentage of these people and you people actually understand what a deem is. There is an up or down vote, it is just a combination of two votes. Also, the Republicans have used it before.
BC:
Like pretty much all such recent polls, it’s worthless since it doesn’t indicate at all how much or how little the people polled actually know about any of this stuff going in. Indeed, other polls show that the public overall hasn’t a clue.
Hey BC even the elected officials don’t know anything about this stuff. Madame Speaker herself was quoted “We have to pass the bill to see what’s in it”. I’m sure that you feel perfectly comfortable with this. As I’m sure the koskids and puffington hosters do. Why don’t you go back home there. The people on this site and indeed across America no longer trust our elected officials.
@11. BC: – … other polls show that the public overall hasn’t a clue.
Which, of course, doesn’t prove ANYTHING, except that the plan being rammed through Congress using procedural gimmicks and Soviet style deceit has not been made clear to the American People, such that they can render a knowledgeable opinion.
As such, respondents are forced to render opinions on what they DO know. Try reading the survey questionnaire, nimrod. Just because a poll doesn’t support your brainless adulation of BHO and your lemming devotion to socialized medicine, that doesn’t mean it’s “worthless”.
“The Republicans have used it before” realy? Come on. are you 5?
Obama’s plan will save us all sooooo much money! It is a great deal for all americans. He is such a wonderful man.
14. Christle Miersma:I like what you are thinking. I say throw in some tort reform and we are going to be looking good. My one question is what do we do with people who cannot afford insurance? Do you let them just die? Because if not, then the tax payers will still be paying for them and it will cost more because they will only go in for emergency situations and not preventative care.
Brian,
Pelosi calls people against this government boondoggle Brownshirt Nazis, so don’t cry if your side is getting a dose of its own medicine.
The rest of your rambling post is a bunch of ‘alsos’ and ‘pluses’ that don’t even begin to scratch the poll’s credibility. The Republicans have done this before? Maybe, but for a huge entitlement program with this much cost? Hell no they haven’t.
It does not matter. The dems do not care. Unless they are threatened with unemployment and that includes special good deal payback jobs arranged for when the Congressman is unemployed, they will do exactly as they are told. THEY DO NOT CARE!
What I find disturbing is that only 60%, of those polled, take issue with attempting to pass an unconstitutional bill using unconstitutional methods.
Polls, schmolls! It wouldn’t matter if they showed that 95% of voting Americans were opposed to ObamaCare, this Administration would try to rham it into law.
Who says he is not transparent? On one thing he has made himself perfectly clear: placing the Federal Government in control of the nation’s health care system is Number 1 on his agenda – the primary goal of his “I won – you lost!”, 2-year plan for Changing the U.S.A. into a Socialist Republic. The will of the people means nada to a power-obsessed consecrated Mao-loving Socialist.
If he can’t do it, crippling the existing system and creating a shambles is the next-best thing. “To dream the impossible dream!”
What is to stop American’s from “deeming” that those in Congress who push this monstrosity are not guilty of sedition, or worse, and imposing punishment?
the Obamaa healthcare bill is againstt articcle 1 secttion 7,5th,10 admenments and the comerrce claus of our constitution
@14. Christle Miersma: – … the Patients have been left out of the negotiation.
That’s precisely what is causing skyrocketing costs in the first place. Insurance companies and health care providers negotiate to set health care prices with no input whatsoever from the health care consumer. As such, the price(s) set for health care have no relationship whatsoever to the consumer’s perceived value of that care.
Christle, I think you’re on the right track here, but you haven’t quite made it to thinking completely outside the box.
- Insurance is nothing more than a hedge against loss in the event of a catastrophe.
Then we should start using it for that – and ONLY for that. I understand that this is what you’re ultimately alluding to, but we need an actual plan aimed at ending the abuse of insurance to pay for every dollar of routine health care.
- Care providers should have to post their prices for their services…
Why? You don’t care. No one does. You have a NO-LIMIT HEALTH CARE CREDIT CARD (aka ‘insurance card’) issued by your insurance company. You couldn’t care less how much a doctors’ services cost and since your insurance is paying all but a nominal co-pay, you have exactly ZERO incentive to make use of this information. That’s what has to change.
- Basic care and maintenance like check-ups, doctor visits, etc. should be paid directly by the consumer.
Yes, but right now there’s no incentive whatsoever to do this. Until you create one, people will opt to hold onto comprehensive coverage through their employer. So while I agree with you in principle here, principle is not enough. Policy is required – policy most Americans aren’t going to like because they’ve been hoodwinked into seeing ostensibly ‘free’ health care (i.e., first-dollar, employer-provided coverage) as an entitlement. That’s what 50 years of government meddling in health care has given us – a nation addicted to an “insurance will cover it”. At this point, it’s pretty clear that was the intention all along.
- Congress should pass legislation to prohibit the “pre-existing” conditions denial of insurance and return insurance to its original intent which is a hedge against loss in a catastrophic event or illness.
While I agree with this in principle, you can’t legally force an insurance company to accept more risk than their business plan can realistically absorb, and certainly can’t force them to cover beyond the contractually agreed level that every policyholder accepts. We don’t need any new laws to deal with pre-existing conditions, since any contract violations in this regard are already covered by existing law.
The key here, which everyone misses, is that pre-existing conditions, just like the so-called “uninsured”, are a red herring. Both arise as symptoms of skyrocketing health care costs. Once the skyrocketing health care cost issue is addressed, things like pre-existing conditions (which have always been a factor) become less burdensome for everyone and, thus, much easier to deal with financially – either directly or through appropriate insurance.
“Pre-existing conditions” really just means a statistically increased risk of the need for “expensive” drugs or treatment. With a high-deductible / low-premium policy, that risk is minimized for the consumer and, from an actuarial standpoint, large enough group sizes will minimize the insurance companies’ total exposure to the point where it’s no longer an issue – especially once health care costs are brought back into equilibrium with other commodities. The key, therefor, is not in further regulating insurance companies, but in restoring the free market for health care to get costs under control so that the price of dealing with pre-existing conditions is no longer such a burden.
- All insurance should be sold individually and not provided through employers.
We definitely need to de-couple health care from employment, but there’s no way to legislate this constitutionally. However, government could make self-insurance MUCH more financially attractive if they provided tax breaks for those who self-insure (i.e., through HSAs and high-deductible / low-premium plans) AND removed the employer subsidy for providing cost-jacking, comprehensive, group health care insurance while simultaneously taxing all health care insurance premium benefits.
- Propose a plan to END medicare and medicaid.
See Paul Ryan’s Roadmap for America. We need to take the same approach on Social Security. ALL of these entitlement programs are extra-Constitutional excursions beyond the scope of Congress’ authority – a fact that was well-known when they were implemented. That’s why they’re not properly funded and are now completely insolvent. Medicare, at present, survives only through theft, extortion and income confiscation.
It’s interesting that you bring up the Bill of Rights, as the plan currently proposed by the Democrats is more aptly termed a Constitutional Amendment, at least given the degree to which it will transform this Republic while usurping authority that is not expressly granted to Congress by the Constitution.
Brian N.
“the Republicans have used it before”. To pass a bill that costs ~$800Billion? Which one would that be?
Meh, I’m sure this could be true, but I could give a toss about polls. My concern is about what this bill will actually do, not what people think it will do. My other concern is whether the people are going to turn up at the only meaningful polls, which come around every other November. I’m pretty sure we’re going to toss out a bunch of these Dems, but the real question is _how many?_ Enough to repeal HCR? Enough to override an Obama veto?
Cher
The numbers seem too lopsided. As a general rule a survey item that has numbers in the 80-90% range doesn’t really say very much about attitudes or values because the wording is designed to elicit a particular response. It’s like asking people if marriage is good. The response doesn’t really tell you all that much about what people really feel or think.
For the life of me I really do not understand how Congress can lead like this. You have to wonder if we are living under the Soviet Union style of govt. Are the leaders that out of touch or insane that they are willing to disregard American values and traditions? Do they not feel remorse to those that have given the lives for our freedoms? This is bad…very bad and just plain unfair!
“Lets see the questions that they asked. You can make a poll say anything you want with the right questions.”
Read the study, firestopper. It’s linked. Try using the button on your mouse.
“Plus the first question is very deceptive”
“Turning now to some of the reforms that have been suggested for the healthcare system. I’m going to read you a list of statements regarding ways to pay for reforms OR save money on healthcare costs. For each, please tell me if you support or oppose the idea.”
Yeah, that’s pretty deceptive, Brian N.
“Raise taxes and cut Medicare benefits to pay for health care subsidies for expanded coverage for those who are currently insured” and “Reduce what doctors and hospitals are paid for their services.”
Sorry. I can’t understand what that means. Do you mean that taxes will go up and the Medicare reimbursement to doctors will be cut? Please enlighten me, Brian. /sarc
I am against the healthcare bill, but tend to agree with Firestopper. You can make a poll say anything you want with the right questions.
Specifically this item: Most Americans (85%) support health care reforms that would let people get lower premiums for getting or staying healthy.
Ask them if they support paying more when they get sick and see what the response is.
1. Firestopper:
11. BC:
Actually YOU dont have a clue. Did you know your messiah got his start in politics turning tricks for a slumlord? Yes, he prostituted himself and got his knees dirty working the streets for his slumlord pimp. Now, the roles are reverse and YOU are the prostitute. I hope you get paid well for all of the furiously pathetic slobbering you do all over the Messiah.
“Care providers should have to post their prices for their services and should not be able to charge a different price depending on who’s paying the bill…Why do we accept this from health care providers.”
We’re not allowed to post prices. According to Pete Stark (D-Mars), it’s called collusion. It’s a felony to do so. The reason you accept it is because we go to Federal prison if we post prices.
I did what everyone should do and I read the first 1,017 pages from the House. Then I downloaded the 1,990 pages from the Senate and have read some of it but I was worn out. The new version I have not seen is the 2,700+++ pages? For those of you that take sides on this legislation I hate to break the news to you folks,
IT IS A MESS!! Who would vote for this with so many mandates that will raise health care costs? A less than 500 page bill would cover the 15 to 45 million (depending on who you believe has the right number). Maybe this is why the Democrats are using the Nuclear Option and Deem and Pass to sneak one in on us all. They know what is it and sorry but most of you don’t and that includes me.
What good are voters anymore if they won’t blindly support the Party? Evidently, the leftist media and educational system are not beating their message into enough people.
I still don’t understand how the pols are not included in this hc mess. Please, someone explain to me why they get the goodies and we get the crumbs?
I oppose ObamaCare. I also agree with firestopper that polls can be constructed to get a desire outcome.
example: 80% think healthy people should NOT be penalized by the people who only get into health care after they turn out to be sick.
I bet 80% could also be made to agree with a carefully worded statement about helping those unfortunate people with pre-existing conditions. Even if they only went into ObamaCare after getting sick.
Having said that, the question used in this survey are, imo, more realistic and less manipulative than the ones used in many other surveys which are used to skew results pro-ObamaCare.
“For the life of me I really do not understand how Congress can lead like this. ” Ask yourself why we have 10M+ illegals still in the country despite laws against illegal immigration and hiring illegal immigrants (and 75% of Americans who say all they want is existing laws enforced)? Simple answer – someone makes money on this state of affairs and pays off the politicians not to deal with it effectively.
One aspect that is often missed about medical service pricing is that the “negotiated rates” for insurance company billing are substantially lower than what an individual will be charged.
For example, an insurance company will pay a medical provider 65 dollars for an doctor office visit. An individual patient without insurance will pay 85 dollars for the same visit – even if they pay cash in advance.
It gets much worse. The insurance company will pay 800 dollars for an MRI procedure, which the provider accepts as payment in full. That same provider will bill an uninsured patient 4000 dollars for the MRI procedure, with a 10% discount offered for cash payment in advance.
These are real examples from providers with which I have personal experience. They are not isolated incidents.
Insurance companies have the clout to set pricing at levels that an individual cannot obtain on their own. In effect the uninsured patients who pay their bills wind up subsidizing the insured patients – and the insurance companies.
I most agree with #14 Christie. Even the right minded solution has to jump the blockade of the insurers who will basically be reduced to selling fewer mainly old-age care and catastrophic policies. The warehouse clubs, AAA, AARP even the NRA will have a new perk to sell (clinic networks). Also I think Obama missed a chance to turn a lemon into lemonade by recasting the Cap-and-Tax into a value-added consumption tax to cover health care, if he still had the jones for the single-payer thing.
A poll conducted by an organization (CMPI) – spawned of a right-wing think tank (PRI) with links to tobacco companies and big Pharma – is telling us that Americans are happy with the current system?
What a shocker!
Let me just go through the list of everyone here who is wrong
28. juvat: The only thing the procedure is doing is allowing them to avoid taking two separate votes. THERE WILL STILL BE A VOTE!!!, I do not know how else to say this, but there will still be a vote. A vote that will require a majority. In case people do not know what a majority is, it is what the Democrats have in office. IN ALL THREE BRANCHES. How can you say you represent the majority when The People put the democrats in office. The democrats did not hide their agenda, Obama said he would change healthcare.
24. stuart williamson:”this Administration would try to rham it into law.” how is it ramming if you are using the majority of elected officials to vote on something. Also I would not consider a year long process ramming anything.
21. Drake: I did not cry anything, and I do not really consider myself as having a side. Unlike you I do not see everything as black and white with a good and bad side.
23. Guy Davis: It what way is it unconstitutional. Please explain because I believe using a procedure of the congress that was made legal by the congress is probably not unconstitutional. Unless you can find the part in Article 1 that says otherwise.
33. orthodoc: The first question I was referring to is the up or down vote question. I say it is deceptive because there will be an up or down vote on the bill. I assume you understand how this works.
We’re doomed.
Just . . . f’ing . . . . doomed.
As the healthcare debate rages in congress, one should ask is our system broken or does it just need tweaking in certain areas.
Here are 10 interesting facts about the American Healthcare system. As you can see, the problem we have is the cost of healthcare, not the quality or the outcomes.
Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.
Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.
Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.
Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.
Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.
Fact No. 6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K.
Fact No. 7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed
Fact No. 8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.
Fact No. 9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K
Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.
You can read more about this at:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649
What do you think of the Democrats tactics on the Healthcare Bill. Vote on your answer at http://1202013.blogspot.com/
I see the OfA has finally found PJmedia.
@20. Brian N: – My one question is what do we do with people who cannot afford insurance?
Dumb question, sorry. What do we do with people who can’t afford food? What do we do with people who can’t afford a place to live? Clothes? Utilities? They go on welfare until they can find some means to provide for THEIR OWN necessities. The left thinks we need to force an unconstitutional mandate on every citizen in America just to take care of this tiny minority. Sorry, no.
- Do you let them just die? Because if not, then the tax payers will still be paying for them and it will cost more because they will only go in for emergency situations and not preventative care.
See above. Also, you don’t seem to comprehend that EVERYONE in this country – including illegal aliens – has access to health care whether they have insurance for it or not, as long as they accept their personal responsibility to pay for it. Not only does Congress have no constitutional authority to run a Taxpayer-funded, nationwide health insurance program, but there is no constitutionally-guaranteed “right” to health care, either. As such, there is no legal or moral justification to steal Taxpayers’ money to pay for health care on someone else’s behalf. Even the “general welfare” phrase in the Constitution can’t be twisted to support that, because the welfare being provided is isolated to just a tiny minority of the citizenry who are benefiting – everyone else is being penalized to pay for it.
Meanwhile, the tiny, tiny minority of cases that qualify for care under EMTALA – which are only partially reimbursed by the government and, thus, covered by the Taxpayer – don’t even scratch the surface of the exorbitant costs of care imposed by the insolvent Medicare system, which presently survives only through extortion, theft and wage confiscation. And Medicare, in turn, is only a tiny percentage of the burden that will be placed on American Taxpayers if socialized medicine is implemented in the U.S. for every American citizen.
But… “health care is too expensive,” you say? Bingo. Now you’ve hit on the problem that needs to be solved. And the insurance mandate pushed by every leftist plan to “reform” health care will only make that problem worse. Mandating insurance will never bring health care costs back into equilibrium with that of other commodities.
The so-called “uninsured” are just a symptom of skyrocketing costs – a red herring that is being exploited by the left using an Appeal to Emotion fallacy. The REAL problem is skyrocketing health care costs, and those have been driven by one thing: government meddling aimed at nationalizing health care, which is now in its endgame.
Thanks for picking sides for me and assuming that I was for the bil. I never said for or against, all I said was polls cannot be trusted for backing up your arguing points as facts or fiction. The polls absolutely can be manipulated to the desired outcome. I dont think I can say that any clearer. Dont assume what you think you know what you dont know. nuf said
You keep rejecting my name & email address…. Gert
Childhood photo’s of BARRACK OBAMA IN INDONESIA emerge.
Can I see a show of hands?
How many of you have had just about enough of the pride of Trinity College’s Nancy Patricia D’Alesandro Pelosi’s tight, leathery, Gold Bond moisturized grip continuing to crush the low hanging “jewels” of America?
Me too.
The first questions that come to mind are:
1) Exactly when did this Botoxed lab reject become Obama’s “Czar of Unaccountability” and
2) Why aren’t there more taxpaying citizens outraged and using http://www.poopsenders.com to show their understandable frustrations for a woman who is destroying the United States of America?
Polling data consistently reveals that a majority of Americans are as interested in this sham of a health care plan as they are in John Edwards being the next “Bachelor” on ABC.
We all know this putrid European-style cesspool will expand America’s debt faster than Oprah’s waistline at a “free wings” happy hour in a Chicago ale house, and yet, apparently most Democrats, whose confusion rivals that of Barney Frank at a Boy Scout National Jamboree convention , are stumbling and struggling and racing as fast as they can to push this monstrosity of a coprolite towards the finish line even though they are fully aware that the winner’s tape has been replaced with neck-high piano wire.
With Obama offering joy rides on Air Force 1 to gutless Democrats, the negotiations have taken on brothel-style proportions that even Client #9 (Eliot Spitzer) would be proud of… a risqué dance with the devil that will ultimately guarantee the need of a good old fashioned crotch scrubbing with an OXO cheese grater (http://tiny.cc/JBNq8) at the end of a long, hard day of “talks.”
Does anyone at all care what is going on behind the closed doors of Capital Hill. What Eric Massa did was mere child’s play (apparently literally) to what is actually happening as we speak with our elected leaders. There are more favors being exchanged today than during any week of the pants dropping Clinton Era Intern-fest of the 1990s… Keith Olbermann and his restless legs are strangely silent.
Wasn’t this, after all, supposed to be the most “transparent” of all White Houses?
I suppose the lock-step shiny-faced millions of Obama’s Gen X supporters of 2008 and 2009 might be rationalizing this sordid lack of morality and backroom dealings in the same “compartmentalized” manner they use when downloading their hundreds of millions of songs and movies off the internet illegally. It’s all relative, right?
But morality is not relative. Apparently in Washington, it’s nonexistent.
For example, where are those 72 hours Obama once promised? I guess those must have been swallowed up by last Sunday’s day light saving change.
Not only does Washington need a new watch, they need a class in morality, Constitutional law, and a remedial YouTube video tutorial on addition, subtraction and debt.
The facts remain clear. The differences between the parties have only a little to do with healthcare itself. It has little to do with abortion. It does, however, have everything to do with affordability… and America cannot afford this anymore than it can afford to deny Barack Obama’s connection with Reverend Wright who recently bestowed upon himself the honor of “Living Legend.” (Now that is an audacity of ego.)
With trillions of dollars in debt, and another $2.5 trillion with Obamacare waiting in the wings, one can only wonder if the taxes on the sales of John Edwards’ sex tapes would even make a dent in reducing our national obligations let alone Obamacare.
Oh, and for those interested, here’s the address: Office of the Speaker, H-232, US Capitol, Washington, DC 20515
Even more evidence:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003170036
Republicans should threaten Unions and Dem Congress folks (and Obama) that when they take power in the next election (which they will) that every budget bill that goes to Obama for signature into law will have new lines to legally strip Unions of the Cadillac Health Care tax exemption and strip Congress and other Federal Employees of their exemption from having to be part of Obama care. Also, Republicans can do what Dems did to our Government promise to supply arms to the South Vietnamese when we left by refusing to fund any part of Obama Care while they have control of Congress and threaten to strip funding for the EPA, the Department of Education, and the Department of HHS. Remember, Congress controls the purse strings.
They promised not to turn a deaf ear to the American people. Now it’s time to call them on it.
202-225-5406. 202-225-2565. 202-225-6265.
Kathy Dahlkemper Jason Altmire Zack Space
Please note. Because so much pressure is being brought to bear on swing vote House Democrats, they’ve fallen into the habit of changing phone numbers, not answering their phones or whatever. The numbers I’m listing are the Washington numbers for these Blue Dogs. Taken from their websites or from the website of Dick Morris. However, you may be able to get a better number or may decide on another way to contact them. Regardless, if our voices are loud enough, they’ll eventually hear us. And vote “no” on ObamaCare. And “yes” to the will of the American people. As you know, the reasons to vote down ObamaCare number in the trillions. But this isn’t just about dollars and cents. It’s about government Obama wanting total control of your lives.
Both figuratively and literally, deciding to call Congress about their ObamaCare vote will be, for many of us, a life and death decision. Government bureaucrats can’t be given the power to override the treatment decisions that are the province of you and your doctor.
You know, most of you I don’t know. And you don’t know Rachel Peepers. I guess you could call me a girl on a mission. What I believe is that America is standing against tyranny from within. We’re united against it. If Washington, Franklin, Adams and the other founding fathers were alive today, I believe they’d say, stand up and be counted. This is our crossing of the Delaware on Christmas Eve. This is our Valley Forge. This is our battle of Saratoga. Nothing less than a turning point in the history of this great nation. Before government Obama does a number on our freedom and our healthcare, let’s make our numbers felt. America, I’m starting to think the progressives are shaking in their boots. They don’t have the votes to ram healthcare down our throats. And they’re the ones starting to blink. Obama is bluffing. Fact is, Obama is all smoke and mirrors; the one that’s being smoked out. The Slaughter Rule is laughable; simply a paper tiger. It’ll never be used. More and more, I’m thinking the whole progressive boat is taking in water from stem to stern. I believe they don’t have the nerve to stand up to us. Right now, they’re busying themselves arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, aka SS Nobama.
You may not realize the power of the people because the people aren’t often called on to wield it. But the creeps who would destroy our healthcare system and our country can feel it. I don’t know if these are the worst of times. But this is our time. And our country. And if some pipsqueak politician thinks he can dictate surrender terms to lil’ ol’ blond haired blue eyed Rachel, well, he’s got another think coming. Government Obama. Government controlled healthcare. I call on you, America, to pick the phone up and put this 2,800 page monstrosity of a Bill out of its misery. We’ve got it in our sights. Now it’s time to pull the trigger.
ObamaCare. Your number is up.
Of course we should fight to stop it until the bitter end, but we should also start thinking about things to do if it passes. first of all, of course, demand that a new Republican majority repeal it, using whatever legislative tricks they need–they should be as desperate as the Democrats are in passing it. Second, if repeal is impossible, amend, stall implementation and defund wherever possible. Third, prepare a myriad of lawsuits (I know Mark Levin has already gotten started here). Fourth, begin planning out various forms of civil disobedience and black marker transactions. Flood the courts, make them arrest millions of people. A law like this can’t work if even 1/3 of the people actively undermine it.
Isn’t it time to consider a general strike? Our elected leaders in Washington are not responsive to the desires of the American people. Legislation without representation is tyranny. Why not organize a “Take a sick day to save America from Obamacare?”
I do not want to pay for illegal alien healthcare, anchor babies, jail cost, etc…, as well as those who do not want to work.
I would like to help Americans down on their luck, or lost limbs. Everyone elce, get your butt to work.
Illegal aliens get the bloody hell out of my country, and fix your own. Pick up the trash you dumped on the ground when you broke the law getting here!
Marxism has never worked.
Don’t Democrats remind you of your parents? They know what’s good for you and you don’t.
Whaddaya think, you’re a free American living in old America, insted of Nouvelle France?
Think again biounit no. 123,335,112. Get back to work so you can pay taxes.
Barack Obama is a pure hypocrit and liar to the American people. We just don’t believe anything he says anymore. He uses incorrect facts when speaking to us and lied to us by closing the doors to transparency in the halls of Congress during the healthcare debates. He has appointed Marxists and Socialists to his inner circle. As the old saying goes, “You are who you hang with”. If his Democratic Congressional members follow in His footsteps and continue to support Him on his agenda, they will become unemployed in 2010 and 2012. That is a promise!
Worse heathcare, gov’t control and higher taxes… oh, hell no! BYOK-Y (bring your own K-Y)! Deomcrats don’t have the comsent of the governed for this mess!
In the case the Dems will succeed to inflict the bill through the system, the situation will be Obama’s Borodino – yet soon his Grand Arme will be pressed in an aimless retreat crowned by a disastrous Berezina WITHOUT the short, triumphal entry in an abandoned, smoldering Moscow -
Then the catharsis -
Ah, the difference that foolish acts can bring in public affairs -
56. rachel peepers,
Thank you for the info!
These slime-buckets are so in for a reckoning.
These Democrats don’t care for us because they want us gone. Go away. Somewhere else. Well guess what. This is it. I’m not going anywhere. I helped build what’s here and you can’t steal it and give it to somebody else who thinks they can do better with my money or property. That’s none of their business.
Let’s see, where did all these lefties come from? From failed socialist countries and then they moved here. They didn’t work because they didn’t need the money to buy the basic necessities because their country’s government would provide it for them. They didn’t understand how money worked. They understood how money pays. So, they moved to the U.S. and began to hold out their hands and it started all over again. The 31 million that don’t have health insurance aren’t denied health care, they just don’t have the funds to cover those expenses. I believe that the 13 million who can’t get health care were former hippies, drug users, junkies and pot heads who experimented with substance abuse, which were known to have permanent damage to their health in the future. Ta da, here we are in their future and they(socialists, pot-heads and illegals) want ‘U.S.’ to pay for their health care. Until the media investigates who the 31 million consist of, my opinion is correct. Here’s a suggestion: Next time I pay taxes, I’d like to see a box where I can
check off that says: “Would you like a dollar of your tax return to go to the Medically Uninsured North American Citizens’ Fund? Would that be a start? Thanks for reading.
@34. “Teleprompter”: – … tend to agree with Firestopper. You can make a poll say anything you want with the right questions.
Here’s a novel idea, Firestopper: why not try actually reading the survey questionnaire?
- Specifically this item: Most Americans (85%) support health care reforms that would let people get lower premiums for getting or staying healthy.
This is a no-brainer, and it’s got nothing to do with whether or not people support the Democrats’ unconstitutional drive to take over the health care industry.
Also in the no-brainer column are health care “reforms” that would actually, you know, work to reduce health care costs so that consumers can afford routine health care without insurance. But you won’t see the socialists in our government supporting this approach because it works directly counter to their strategy.
Not one single aspect of the Democrats’ socialized medicine plan addresses skyrocketing health care costs. Any idea why? The answer is simple. Just look at the last 40 years of health care cost increases – at multiple times the rate of inflation – thanks to unconstitutional Democrat meddling in the health care market. This is the standard leftist strategy: create a problem through government meddling, turn it into a crisis, then gallop in to save the day with… more government meddling. Once this turkey is passed you will see both flavors of socialists – Democrat AND Republican – pushing for the same approach that is FAILING in Japan, and which has driven Japan’s public Debt-to-GDP ratio to almost 200%. Say good-bye to the Republic and hello to serfdom.
#57 Adam: How about the 112th, Republican House, “deem” the bill repealed and move simultaneously to IMPEACH the usurper in chief?
Take that, you commies!
Apart from becoming a NAZI Dictatorship where Obambi and the DEMS just”DEEM” any Bill they want to be passed. This is also what awaits you with GOVERNMENT controlled OBAMACARE. Are you SURE that’s what you want YOUR congress to “SLAUGHTER” you for? And this is just one of many many perennial problems with the UK’s inefficient, expensive, antiquated, disease ridden, IMMIGRANT infested National Health Service.
‘Blood-spattered walls and mouldy equipment’: How a quarter of hospital trusts fail to meet basic hygiene tests
By Daniel Martin
Last updated at 12:26 AM on 18th March 2010
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1258510/Quarter-NHS-trusts-failing-hygiene-standards-health-watchdog-finds.html#ixzz0iUvJxouS
I just want to vent. I don’t know when I’ve been so pissed off..at least when they were voting on Christmas eve, I was distracted by my tree, family and a good bottle of wine. The only thing I keep going back to is the “demon pass” (deem and pass)..I just don’t see how that can hold up in court. Mark Levin has already prepared a lawsuit should they use it. Maybe we should hope for this strategy so the friggin thing gets held up in court lawsuits.
Firestopper…you say the polls can be manipulated..then how come their are no polls from fairly left leaning institutions such as the ABC poll, CNN poll…show strong support for the bill?
“This is the standard leftist strategy: create a problem through government meddling, turn it into a crisis, then gallop in to save the day ”
Indeed
#27 Goy
Everything you just listed would be fixed by a single payer system. Duh
To pay out, the single payer system has to empty the pockets of multiple taxpayers.
@72. Firestopper: – Everything you just listed would be fixed by a single payer system.
You left out a tiny detail: like how a single-payer system can possibly “fix” anything.
You also left out another tiny detail: like where Congress is going to find the authority to impose single-payer health care insurance on American Citizens (hint: they won’t find it in the Constitution).
Go back to Gamestop. You’re woefully out of your depth here.
I did read the the questions and they were ambigious at best. They can be twisted and manipulated to mean what ever yopu want them to.
#74 you make no sense> you dont need the consttution to approve single payer. Single payer would fix every thing that you posted previously whether you like it or not.
You and cybergezer will be most displeased when this passes and you find yourselves before the death panels and get denied your brain tranplants.
#73 Do you really think that single payer will cost you more than what is proposed now? After they eliminate the insurance companies and curb the Dr’s income and the hospitoals income. there will be much reduced lawsuits and malpractice insurance claims because everything will have to be preapproved just like it is with most HMOs today. Everybody pays and everybody wins. Pretty simple
@75. Firestopper: – I did read the the questions and they were ambigious at best.
Since you’re clearly incapable of demonstrating how they were ambiguous, you either didn’t read them or you didn’t comprehend them. Feel free to pick.
- … you dont need the consttution to approve single payer.
You obviously don’t understand what “single-payer” means – it’s socialized medicine. The bottom line is this: in order to impose socialized medicine on American Citizens, Congress will have to either (1) pass an amendment to the Constitution granting itself the authority to run a health insurance plan using Taxpayers’ money, since no such authority currently exists, or (2) ignore the Constitution and usurp the authority required to do so. Right now it appears that the socialists in Congress and the marxist cipher in the White House are pursuing the latter agenda. FDR tried the same B.S. tactic with the so-called “New Deal”, much of which was later repealed as unconstitutional.
Meanwhile, Medicare proves that the federal government is not capable of managing health care for the entire population of American Citizens. Medicare only serves a portion of the population, yet it is so completely insolvent that it currently survives only through theft, extortion and outright confiscation of wages (and soon – deficit spending). THAT is the sort of criminal enterprise YOU are supporting. Which makes you none too bright.
- Single payer would fix every thing that you posted previously …
I note that you’re STILL utterly incapable of explaining how it would do that, but keep repeating that lie as long as you like. It will remain a lie. Meanwhile, the nonsense you posted in #76 is a pretty fair description Japan’s system, which is failing, and has helped to create a public Debt-to-GDP ratio there approaching 200%.
Go back to playing with your XBox. You clearly don’t have a clue.
Why is SEIU running all the pro-HEALTHCARE ads? Get real people Andy Stearn should pay rent for all the nights he has spent in the white house.
Hey, maybe Andy and Barack sit up at nights imagining ways to redistribute our wealth (union style).
SHAME ON THESE DEMOCRATS! SORRY TO ADMIT I USED TO BE ONE.
All Americans have the ability to peacefully protest against the federal takeover of our healthcare system. I would like to see an national Sick Day on April 15. We could call in sick, take a vacation day, a family leave act day or whatever. I understand that this would impact many people who would not be paid but it is just one day. Not only not work but no driving, shopping, going to movies. Don’t generate any commerce or productivity. Small businesses could close for the day. Non-essential medical providers could cancel appointments or move them. Don’t make purchases of any type that are not necessary, especially fuel, tobacco and alcohol, or any other federally taxed product.
I realize this would not make much of a dent but it could send a signal that we WILL take this lying down and it will not be business as usual.
To paraphrase Gandhi: Yes. In the end, Obama will fail. Because 100,000 Obama zombies simply cannot control 300 million Americans, if those Americans refuse to cooperate.