New Evidence of Saddam-Terrorism Links
The rationale for pushing forward in Afghanistan is that it is the “right” war, the “war of necessity,” the true base of the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 and would try to attack us again. Essentially, those opposing the war in Iraq while supporting the war in Afghanistan try to frame the latter conflict as justified in every way the former is not. As the war in Iraq ever so slowly comes to a close and the history books begin being written, new evidence has emerged to challenge the narrative that the war in Iraq was something different than the war on terror.
The timing, justification, and prosecution of the war in Iraq will forever be debated, but a fair assessment of documents, studies, and testimony will show that Saddam Hussein’s regime was a supporter and active participant in radical Islamic terrorism.
The lead prosecutor of Saddam Hussein, Ja’far al-Musawi, says that he has seen official documents that prove that his regime was involved with Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. Last year, a Kurdish newspaper published an Iraqi intelligence document from 2002 referencing a proposed meeting with al-Zawahiri to discuss a “revenge operation” against Saudi Arabia at Saddam Hussein’s request. If previous ties had not been maintained and if there was such hostility between the secularist government of Saddam and al-Qaeda as is assumed, such a plan would never have been hatched by Saddam or been acted upon by his intelligence service.
A source at the Iraq Memory Foundation, which is going through thousands of files to document Saddam Hussein’s reign, has reported that they have seen documents showing a link between Saddam and al-Qaeda. One document dated December 12, 1994, reveals that Uday Hussein received a message from Osama bin Laden via a Sudanese politician requesting an alliance. A meeting between bin Laden, an Iraqi government representative, and the Sudanese official then happened on January 11, 1995, where cooperation in attacking foreign forces in Saudi Arabia was discussed. The foundation said another file shows that Iraqi intelligence suggested to bin Laden that he leave Sudan for security reasons and that the ties continued after he moved to Afghanistan. Another document dated March 28, 1992, describes bin Laden as being “in a good relationship” with Iraqi intelligence in Syria. Other documents have provided immense detail of the Saddam-terror connection.
Iyad Allawi, the former prime minister of Iraq, said that his government collected proof of such ties. He said that Ayman al-Zawahiri attended the Popular Islamic Conference in Baghdad in 1999, an event chaired by the Iraqi vice president that brought together representatives of terrorist groups from around the world. Allawi said that Iraqi intelligence facilitated the travel of Ansar al-Islam operatives in the north, and he confirmed that the U.S. gave intelligence to Iraq via Jordan about the location of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq in 2002, but the Iraqis did not take any action.
Mark Eichenlaub of RegimeOfTerror.com did an interview this summer with Matthew Degn, a former senior advisor to the Iraqi Interior Ministry and a U.S. Army civilian interrogator, about this topic. Degn said that Saddam’s government used the hawala system, which is an unofficial banking system involving a network of brokers to transfer funds with no documentation, to fund elements of al-Qaeda that were willing to work across ideological lines. Degn said that al-Qaeda had at least two training camps in Iraq, specifically in Anbar Province and the western part of the country, and that at least two cells operated, one loyal to Zarqawi and another to Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Degn also said there is evidence that Iraq sponsored attacks on American forces in Kuwait.
Where is this “new evidence”?
Everything on that first page is well over a year old. It was available when cheney was still trying to write history. Why didn’t he use it? Trust me – if cheney doesn’t claim something vindicates him, then you probably shouldn’t use it either. So a kurdish newspaper has a smoking gun letter? Really? Lets see it. Has it occurred to nobody in the international media to ask to have a look? There ARE quite large conservative newspapers around, you know – it’s not all liberal. Not one of them has it? Or have they stashed it in the drawer alongside the michelle obama “whitey” tape?
Saddam was a creep, but in terrorist circles he was a non-starter. He sent some money to families of suicide bombers. He probably knew some of the operators, and undoubtedly let them visit iraq from time to time if he thought it suited his interests. Did he have anything at all to do with terrorist attacks on the US? According to the (actual) evidence, no.
The fact that you’re still desperately trying to flock this dead horse just goes to reassure me that you do understand what a steaming crock bush’s case for the invasion was, and how appallingly wrong he turned out to be. You do get it. I’m glad of that.
The thing that still makes my eyes roll about this whole business is o’reilly’s response to criticism about the eagerly naive MSM (yes, the MSM) lapping up the whitehouse official line. His (furious) response – ‘when american intelligence says something is true, and the UK intelligence says it’s true, what’s the media supposed to do?’ The answer to that, bill, is what separates journalists from hacks. The mere fact that you can seriously ASK that question speaks volumes.
“The common rebuttal to evidence such as this is that ideological differences between Saddam’s government and al-Qaeda meant that they “hated” each other and would never cooperate.”
This was always a dumb argument deserving of scorn. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is almost the norm in human relationships. America also had a peculiar relationship with Joseph Stalin during WWII. Saddam Hussein hated the West and would do anything behind the scenes to organize terrorist attacks. I took it for granted that he had to be removed if we truly wanted to curtail terrorism. It simply was nonnegotiable. The leftists never gave a damn about searching for the truth. They only cared about weakening the Bush administration in order to enhance their own political agenda. Gaining power was their first, last, and foremost goal.
Every Muslim country is a supporter of terrorism in one way or another. Islam is hostile to the West, for that matter, hostile to anything non-Muslim. We are at war but just don’t want to admit it. Saddam was so much trouble, such a monster, that removing him became unavoidable. Unfortunately, we did not continue on to Iran & Syria, two more monsterous regimes that need removal.
“Did he have anything at all to do with terrorist attacks on the US? According to the (actual) evidence, no.”
Baloney.
The Baathists were long-time supporters of terror organizations like Abu Nidal’s ANO and Abu Abbas’ PLF both of which carried out many terror attacks and murdered American citizens doing it.
Nidal died in Iraq (under mysterious circumstances) right before we invaded Iraq, and Abbas was captured when we invaded.
During our invasion of 2003 we also rounded up large numbers of terrorists from the terror group MEK, effectively putting them out of business. MEK had killed numerous Americans during the 1970s, and was actually loosely incorporated into the Iraqi military by 2003.
Those are just some of the terror groups the Iraqis were backing.
And, that by itself is more than enough justification to wipe them off the face of the earth, which is what George Bush, one of our better presidents, did do, no thanks to creeps like Barack Obama (aka the terrorists’ best friend), who did everything in his power to try and sabotage the war effort.
And, no amount of lying is going to change all that.
1993 WTC bomber Abdil Rajman Yasin was allegedly on Saddam’s payroll after he returned to Iraq following his release after questioning (which itself is a scandal).
At some point sanctions would have ended and Saddam would have reconstituted his WMD programs. Duelfer said he retained the capacity. The notion that Saddam would have stood by and not developed nuclear weapons while watching Iran develop theirs is ridiculous.
Abdul Rahman Yasin
Saddam Hussein’s totalitarian regime
was like all the rest: Ruthless, and
obsessed with documentation thereof;
Everything went down on paper, or on
disk, or video.
This will not convince the unbelievers,
any more than the analogous release of
records of Soviet operations against the
US, _in_ the US, convinced anyone that
“Tail-Gunner” Joe McCarthy was right;
Slime, sure, but right on this one point.
All well and good, however, trying to convince people who firmly believe that Bush and company were behind 9/11 but who can’t conceive of Saddam being in bed with Al Qaida, is a pointless excercise.
A source at the Iraq Memory Foundation, which is going through thousands of files to document Saddam Hussein’s reign, has reported that they have seen documents
Ryan Mauro, the gift that keeps on giving. Last week you claimed to have your hands on a hot VHS tape that showed African-American Muslims training for Jihad–all 20 seconds of the non-dated tape that actually showed no specific evidence of anything but your own will to mendacity. Question for you, boy genius. Why don’t they just publish the documents? Its a testament to the unbelievable stupidity of the bigoted wing of the right wing party that this incredible absurdity passes for analysis. You might as well start reading tea leaves or the intestines of a small mammal.
4. Dave Surls:
I’m sure you remember this little gem . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A77N5WKWM
and this . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sulDYYAiCU&feature=related
And so we voted his ilk out of power. Simple, really. You want to go back to that nonsense, vote for Palin.
Cough cough…
Pretending that “behind the scene chatter” is the proof of active collaboration is quite irresponsible. According to these standards, the US itself could be tagged as a terrorist state due to back channel unofficial contacts maintained with a whole array of murky states, including North Korea.
Besides, I still believe that the invasion of Iraq has been an utter failure. Nowadays the only remaining Middle-Eastern power able to somehow contain Iran is Israel, and most of the iraqi shia population is submitted to direct iranian influence. Iraq is actually a playing ground for Turkey, Syria, Iran and Jordan interests. Just check statistics about emigration, and get back to me telling that you’re willing to relocate there.
I still remember pics of the Mahdi’s riding on top of donated US gear taking pea shots at US forces. If that’s a success, I would be delighted to know your definition of failure…
Fact of the matter is that as soon the US leaves Iraq, chaos will return, because delusional minds still do not understand that the clock doesn’t run at the same pace everywhere, and certainly not in places where politics, ethnicity and religious doctrines mixed with outside influences generate a kaleidoscope of ever changing volatile conditions, interests and alliances.
There’s only a single and clear winner in this Iraqi adventure: Iran. Mission accomplished…
revenge operation” against Saudi Arabia at Saddam Hussein’s request.
oh that would have been such a rightful operation though, to Saudi the hypocrit islamists that sponsor evil imans and terrorism around the world
‘when american intelligence says something is true, and the UK intelligence says it’s true,
LMAO
hmmm, some forgot that CIA didn’t see 9/11 happening… that the “Plame” lie was concepted amid the Wolfowitz gang… and relied by UK and Italy boots s*ckers… etc… etc…
Cicero, From “In Defense of Titus Annius Milo”
“…there exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself; a law that has not come to us from theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law that lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.”
(http://books.google.com/books?id=B9GKCAzBkxcC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=cicero+there+exists+a+law+not+written+down+anywhere&source=bl&ots=NXdr8zs2Is&sig=kHckDpA43eoVWq0MTeKG4A_dABs&hl=en&ei=oLMfS8iAL4uNlAfq0OiKDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false)
Smoking gun letter…its there, click the link. Find a translator.
I agree with Thomas_L…….
Also, you will probably not find documents of a smoking gun. People know not to write things down; things written down can be delivered, for a price. Particularly where the “governments” involved are dictators for life and the “terrorists” involved are in reality intelligence assets of those governments, what need is there for a document?
Secondly, this entire picture will never be complete without reference to Russia’s intelligence services KGB/SVR and GRU. They’re not even referenced in relation to Syria, even though Syria is and has since the Assad Sr. coup d’etat always been a franchise of the Politburo’s southern subversion campaign.
Why is this? Are all you people so afraid of being labelled McCarthyist, or something? It’s only controversial because everyone’s afraid of pointing out the obvious. And how can we ever counter anti-US propaganda about “US imperialism” if even we, against whom this is all ultimately directed, fail to point out the obvious fact that it is *they,* not we, who are the aggressor. What a bunch of babies.
“The fact that you’re still desperately trying to flock this dead horse ”
How do you flock a dead horse?
#1: “Saddam was a creep, but in terrorist circles he was a non-starter. ”
Willful ignorance.
“Willful Igfnorance”
DaveT. That’s Palin’s tagline for the 2012 campaign isn’t it?
They could publish a photo of Saddam and Osama snorting coke off a hookers @$$ together, and the Leftists would deny it, outright – No doubt Obama would want in on some of that!
Matthew: It is you and the left who are always “flogging” a dead horse. First, if you really believe that SH had no contact other than to let terrorists visit Iraq, then it is you who is “appallingly wrong “. Second, VP Cheney needs no vindication. Third, ask the Kurds if SH had any WMD. Fourth, ask any women who were gang-raped by SH henchmen whether our invasion and dismantling of his dictatorial regime was worth it. Fifth, every NATO and UN investigation prior to invasion did state that SH had WMD. So…..
Lastly, for you and the left who support and defend Islam to decry what Pres. Bush did in Iraq is rather disingenuous. It was a noble effort to free millions of people only made worse by the ROE imposed by the left and the sanctimonious cries of you digenerate ingrates for what we have done.
Lou Floospin: “Willful Ignorance” sure worked for Obama and Biden!
In a recent interview, the chief prosecutors says that Iraq has solid documentary proof, that hasn’t been released yet.
http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/11/chief-iraqi-prosecuter-in-sadams-trial-jaafar-almoussawi-says-there-was-documentary-evidence-that-pr.html
We’ll just forget about all the satellite pictures of convoys comprised of hundreds of Iraqi military trucks heading into Syria days before the invasion, the hundreds upon hundreds of pounds of nerve gas agents and deployment mechanisms buried in the desert, the millions in money deposits sent to terrorists and their families across the globe by Saddam, the dozens of mass graves, some of which containing over 10,000 bodies…see! If you just ignore those petty little things (all of which were publicized), Saddam wasn’t such a bad guy.
Yes, the Iraqi front is going badly, mostly due to political sabbotage by our lovely, traitorous Congress, and the typical knuckle dragging Obama voter.
Quoting:
“Essentially, those opposing the war in Iraq while supporting the war in Afghanistan try to frame the latter conflict as justified in every way the former is not.”
I wholeheartedly disagree – upon the “election” of Mr. Obama, the true face of the Liberal population came to light. The vast majority never truly supported the Afghan front, but were too cowardly to say so. However, the lengths to which they are going now that the traitor in chief is in office to sabbotage the entire war effort is astonishing and easy to see.
Author Stephen F. Hays documented a link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda in his book “The Connection: How al Qaeda’s Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America,” which was published in 2004. If anyone in the mainstream media bothered reading the book, it lays out a clear and undisputed case that Saddam Hussein was a long time supporter of global terrorism and that he had very solid ties to al Qaeda. People also tend to forget that Saddam Hussein also tried to have the elder George Bush assasinated while he was on a trip to Kuwait during the Clinton administration. I guess trying to kill ex-presidents just isn’t that newsworthy to liberals and to the mainstream media (although I wonder what the outcry would have been if Hussein was trying to have Jimmy Carter assasinated). Now people can disagree as to whether or not an invasion of Iraq was needed in order to punish Saddam Hussein for his terrorist links. But rabid liberals and members of the far left who summarily deny that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with al Qaeda are just plain wrong. In addition, economic sanctions against Hussein were turning out to be a joke (anybody remember the “Oil for Food scandal) and the international community wasn’t lifting a finger to do anything about it. Take all that and add the post-9/11 threat we faced from al Qaeda and other assorted terrorists, and you can understand why the George W. Bush administration saw Saddam Hussein as major threat. But there are always two questions that liberals and the left refuse to answer (or can’t answer) whenever a discussion on Iraq begins. First, is the world better off now that Saddam Hussein is dead and buried? Second, did taking no major military action against Saddam Hussein after the first Gulf War encourage him, as well as other terrorists (such as bin Laden), to support more acts of terror against the United States and the West? People who hate George W. Bush never seem to want to answer these two basic questions. And, with the dismal failure of the United Nation’s economic sanctions, what would a Democratic president have done to in the same situation? Oh wait, we know the answer to that question. Bill Clinton did lob some cruise missiles and bombs into Iraq every now and then, and we all see how much that intimidated Saddam Hussein from continuing his support for global terrorism. Again, one can dispute how the invasion of Iraq was handled and whether or not a full invasion of that country was necessary. Personally, I think a full naval blockade of that country and massive destabilization efforts by the CIA were never really given a chance to overthrow the government. But something stronger than just a cruise missile strike was necessary in dealing with an animal like Saddam Hussein.
In a recent interview, the chief prosecutors says that Iraq has solid documentary proof, that hasn’t been released yet.
Yes, of course, that’s perfectly Maurian logic. I have here in my hand, evidence that 50…er I mean, 83 members of the State Department are communists. But I’m glad that people like him are writing; it almost seems like God’s way of streaking America’s idiots with a highlighter pen.
TO MATTHEW:
I guess the tons of Yellowcake uranium that was found in iraq in July 2008 was made up too. you know, the same dangerous substance that CIA desk jockey Valerie PLAIME Wilson said was never there. It was transported to Canada and only modestly reported by CNN and AP then buried under Hussein Obama election coverage. That substance is WMD and eventually would’ve turned into nuclear weapons if Saddam had his way. I guess since YOU didn’t hear about it then I guess it’s not true. Never mind WMD, how about the fact that Saddam was planning on using oil as a foreign currency which would have likely destroyed our economy and other economies? I guess Bush should’ve just let him do that…
Oh yeah and Iran hated Iraq and vice versa. They killed each other for years during the Iran iraq wars. But Iran also allowed country to be a safe haven for Saddams fighter planes and some of his weapons arsenal.
When it comes to Arabs and Muslims,especially these power lusted leaders, they hate the West more than each other.
johnmaylives
If Colin Powell and the State Department were worth a damn, they would have been providing these details on a weekly basis once he was captured-complete and total mishandling of the situation-i guess they were more interested in second-guessing the war as opposed to doing their jobs
Also, the libs continuously ignore the fact that the Clintonistas Bill, Al Gore Albright and Democratic members of Congress even Pelosi had been building up rhetoric against Saddam and his regime as being a threat and dangerous to global peace. they said it over and over and over again all throughout the 90′s. and then suddenly poooof it was all gone.
If Colin Powell and the State Department were worth a damn,…
Very true, but the communications strategy of the Bush administration was a disaster.
You anti-war sheep will never change,even when you see our enemy in front of you, will you ? Wake up !
19 Tyler
You mean this photo?
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
oh please, he had nothing to do with 9-11, there is no evidence in this blog/article of anything meaningful at all.
26. johnmaylives
I guess the tons of Yellowcake uranium that was found in iraq in July 2008 was made up too.
the yellowcake that some seem to be astonished to find now, was there long time ago, in the first Irak war, “the desert storm”, Bush father knew it was there, but as such he din’t find it had any virtual use, because you can’t use yellow cake as a mere, if you don’t have the knowledge, and above all the infrastructures that can transform it into a dangerous stuff. Only a few have these infrastructures, especially France and URSS, and Canada. Though they need such sophisticated operations, and expensive, that even a Saddam with an evil goal couldn’t afford to accomplish it.
But again, this yellow cake was the Osirak left over, and since then none had provided to saddam the abilities to make it working
how about the fact that Saddam was planning on using oil as a foreign currency which would have likely destroyed our economy and other economies
hmm do you find that Saddam is responsible of your “destroyed economy” today ?
That’s BS, Saddam planned to get paid in “euros”, as also forecasted by the OPEC states, but, in between Chinese powerful customere imposed his requests, Chines don’t want that the US economy collapse, because they would also collapse
“4. Dave Surls: I’m sure you remember…”
…all the Americans killed by Iraqi-backed terrorists?
Yup, I sure do.
Thanks to president Bush a lot of the terrorists are now dead or in prison. Also, thanks to president Bush the people that backed them are driven out of power, dead or in prison.
Same thing for our little pals in Afghanistan.
Bush did a good job fighting terrorists and state sponsors of terrorism (far better than any president before him), while your hero the New Messiah (with plenty of help from a lot of the other treacherous scum on the Left), did everything he could to try and sabotage our war effort, in order to further his own political ambitions.
And, that’s the truth of the matter.
“the yellowcake that some seem to be astonished to find now”
Why would anyone be astonished at that?
The IAEA left it sitting in Iraq, after the 1991 campaign to drive the Baathists out of Kuwait, so the Baathists could use it to restart their nuclear weapons program once the sanctions were lifted. It’s no big secret.
That’s kind of a moot point now, because we drove the Baathists out of power, took possession of the ore and moved it out of Iraq, just to make sure that wouldn’t happen again.
Now, we don’t have to worry about the Baathists or anyone else using it to develop and build nuclear weapons.
Problem solved.
9. Moho.
“Last week you claimed to have your hands on a hot VHS tape…”
A bit of tape envy here Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever? Maybe you could find another copy of Night of the Living Hillbillies on eBay to replace the one that got lost in your cesspool. Then you could give Nurse Nancy a rest. And that Inconvenient Truth as well.
“…that showed African-American Muslims training for Jihad…”
Don’t you want that?
“You might as well start reading tea leaves or the intestines of a small mammal.”
Do Turkey intestines count?
Two Minute Hate right here. Bast it up! You got it you got it!
“Malingering hillbillies that you are, your traditional dishonest manipulation…” Nov 27, 2009 – 8:28 am
Sounds much better. And Now and Then Approved.
Are you going to touch on Van Jones in The Youngsters of moho? Disarm any muggers lately with your “Courage and Intelligence?
repse ipsa pwnquitor. It punks itself.
I’ve actually become so enamored of this phrase that I can’t stop repeating it:
“Malingering hillbillies that you are, your traditional dishonest manipulation…”
Well put; a gift to the English language.
“32. arthur:
oh please, he had nothing to do with 9-11, there is no evidence in this blog/article of anything meaningful at all.”
Perhaps not, but then Hitler had nothing to do with 12-7 either and we went to war with him just the same. And spare me that Germany declared war. SO did sadamn several times. You see we take out the allies of those who attack us as well. There is no denying that iraq was a moslim terrorist s’porting state. Taking out sadamn was as just as our attack on Sicily.
Really Dave Surls ?
that’s a very simplist explanation !
yellow cake didn’t represent any threat, for Bush father , final point.
but could be that some evil minds in DC gangs thought about using it as a further motive to launch a new war there
“The IAEA left it sitting in Iraq, after the 1991 campaign to drive the Baathists out of Kuwait, so the Baathists could use it to restart their nuclear weapons program once the sanctions were lifted. It’s no big secret.”
RIDICULOUS
ol right, been moderated
f**ing h**
You see we take out the allies of those who attack us as well. There is no denying that iraq was a moslim terrorist s’porting state.
Stupid bs. Its well denied and only supported in dark corners of the internet where people are so stupid its difficult to conceive their being able to feed themselves without aid.
“RIDICULOUS”
No, it isn’t. That’s EXACTLY what the IAEA did.
Instead of removing it from Iraq so that the Baathists could never use it to restart their nuclear weapons program, the IAEA left it there so that they eventually could.
Well, president Bush fixed that. No more Baathists running Iraq and no more hundreds of tons of uranium ore left in Iraq.
Dave Surls. Idiot is a compliment to one like you. It was not weapons grade uranium and it was well known to exist there. Iraq had no method for enriching it. I doubt you’ll read the following; like the rest of your ilk, fact based text is like kryptonite and weakens your power of self-delusion.
U.S. Helps Remove Uranium From Iraq
The uranium, which was removed several weeks ago, arrived in Canada over the weekend, according to officials. The removal was first reported by The Associated Press…..
Although the material cannot be used in its current form for a nuclear weapon or even a so-called dirty bomb, officials decided that in Iraq’s unstable environment, it was important to make sure it did not fall into the wrong hands…
Cameco, a Canadian company that produces uranium and sells it around the world, bought the material, according to foreign officials knowledgeable about the transaction.The yellowcake removed from Iraq — which was not the same yellowcake that President Bush claimed, in a now discredited section of his 2003 State of the Union address, that Mr. Hussein was trying to purchase in Africa — is used in an early stage of the nuclear fuel cycle. Only after intensive processing does it become low-enriched uranium, which can fuel reactors producing power. Highly enriched uranium can be used in nuclear bombs. The only neighboring country known to have the technology to process yellowcake is Iran, but Iran has its own stores of the uranium. A State Department official said that there was no indication that Iran had been seeking the material or was interested in using it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/world/middleeast/07iraq.html
24. Libertyship46: – right on – I was a faithful WEEKLY STANDARD reader where the author Hayes regularly wrote the articles that he eventually complied for that book.
There really never was much question that Sadam was so involved – it was a really a question of degree – up to his knees or up to his neck. Nor did I really care – since we had a dozen reasons to proceed in my view.
The problem was that Bush (or rather those that advised him much more so) royally screwed the pooch – to the point that without Petrus & the surge – we would have lost.
Steven Hayes was trashed when his work came out – but the real story was how the country turned. No amount of evidence short of nukes in silos pointed at us would have made any difference because the story of the war was so damningly self-evident.
Over 30k of our finest never should have suffered devestating causalties to IED laid insurgents. War is terrible, but a badly botched execution is unforgivable.
It is important that reports like Mauro’s continue to refine what actually did happen. But nothing can change that this necessary war was unecessarily bloody and expensive. It didn’t have to be this way – and it certainly wasn’t the american militaries fault.
The only thing more disgusting in retrospect was the craven way the Democrats used the many mistakes to domestic advantage to reclaim power. It’s scant satisfaction that Sadam eventually wound up on the right end of a noose.
There really never was much question that Sadam was so involved – it was a really a question of degree – up to his knees or up to his neck. Nor did I really care – since we had a dozen reasons to proceed in my view.
Yeah, that’s why you went to Iraq yourself, rather than indoctrinating the teen kid down the street who didn’t know his head from his b-hole. Salute to Commander Phoenix48 of the 101st Chair-borne. Idiot.
Selecting which data to “believe”
is almost as good as making it up
to suit your position on the issue;
If you had to bet your life on the
accuracy of your statement, how much
would you have to say ? Any of you ?
Bush II would have preferred to finish that
story he was reading to the kids on 9/11;
Watch the video, look at his face.
He sucked it up, and did what he thought
was best for the country; Established a
Forward Operating Base in Iraq, giving all
our armed forces combat experience in the
process, and chased the terrorists out of
Afghanistan.
He told you why he was not overly interested
in continuing the pursuit of OBL, but again,
you were not paying attention; Review the
record:
Q: Don’t you want to know where OBL is ?
A: Oh, I know _exactly_ where OBL is.
(Dead, buried, and burning in Hell)
he did not say, but again, look at his face.
He positioned the US as well as possible
to respond to whatever Iran does with its
nukes and SRBMs; My bet is that there are
US ABMs in Iraq as I write, and, yes, kids,
you were not informed of this; Quel dommage !
RE: #11 – Nomad:
“There’s only a single and clear winner in this Iraqi adventure: Iran. Mission accomplished…”
Please explain how having 100K Troops on Iran’s Western Border, and soon to be 50+K on Iran’s Eastern Border, along with Naval Task Forces in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean, as well as well endowed air bases on the Saudi Peninsula can, in any terms what so ever, be defined as an Iranian victory? Maybe I missed something on the strategic map.
RE: #11 – Nomad:
“There’s only a single and clear winner in this Iraqi adventure: Iran. Mission accomplished…”
Please explain how having 100K Troops on Iran’s Western Border, and soon to be 50+K on Iran’s Eastern Border, along with Naval Task Forces in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean, as well as well endowed air bases on the Saudi Peninsula can, in any terms what so ever, be defined as an Iranian victory? Maybe I missed something on the strategic map.
If Iran was always the big problem , putting troops (+ spies,weapons etc) on the borders of two sides (Iraq , Afghanistan) of that country seems like a reasonable step to soften up Iran (internal riots etc) and topple the regime with a smaller war than might have been needed with a full on assault. Freeing up Iraq oil for a hungry world leads me to believe Obama or any other president will not remove troops from Iraq for a long time. Bush’s surge certainly sent terrorists scurrying to Afghanistan as is evidenced by the fall and rise of coalition casualties in the respective countries. The local Iraqis have to be happy to be free of Sadaam and they had fought a 10 year war with Iran, and with the new found wealth that might actually trickle down to the citizens , Iraqis will probably be for Iraq not Iran or any other tyrants. I wish them well.
“43. Lou Floospin: Its well denied and only supported in dark corners of the internet where people are so stupid its difficult to conceive their being able to feed themselves without aid.”
Good job numbnuts. http://iraq.usembassy.gov/iraq/040924_sponsor.html Does Iraq on the State Department list of States which support terror since 1990 make a dent in your leftist, America hating , small grouping of basal ganglia you possess as brain? Good thing you can manage putting a few words together with a keyboard, as speaking for one such as yourself must be out of the question….. what with that feeding tube down your throat. Or do you consider the State Dept one of “those dark corners” .
LOL, moron.
“47. Lou Floospin:
…the teen kid down the street who didn’t know his head from his b-hole…..”
Dang Lou, I owe you an apology. I did not realize you were the kid down the street.
My bad.
47. Lou Floospin: Trolls are more convincing when they include references beyond the Grey Lady – at least in these venues.
Are you really convinced that the American military has been about seducing for recruiting? Or that only stop-loss back-end drafting accounts for so many multiple tours in both these wars?
But why would either be such a surprise – since you conjur McCarthy references….’I have here in my hand, evidence that 50…er I mean, 83 members of the State Department are communists.’
Typical anti-war BS – personalized attacks adding zero to the conversation. Turn your red beret around, pull up your pants and GET A JOB.
Try the USO.
Neverquit
Maybe I missed something on the strategic map.
What a talent for understatement. Has it occured to you that Iraq is a completely decimated power. Iran is the only superpower in the region now. Its fairly common knowledge, even in conservative circles. Dumb@$$.
Fantom:
You said “There is no denying that iraq was a moslim terrorist s’porting state.”
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Saddam Hussein lived in abject fear of facing Islamic uprisings, and he obviously took careful pains not to encourage such. He was on the terrorist support list for:
The State Department’s reason for including Iraq was that it provided bases to the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Abu Nidal organization (ANO).
Though they are Middle Eastern, they are not muslim organizations–with the exception of the Mujahedin-e-Khalq. The only purpose of that latter organization was internal repression and cross-border attacks into Iran. IT never attacked another country besides Iran. The other groups are secular–the United Arab Emirates was still giving the PLO funds as late as 1990. In 1992, the PLO became the official representative of the Palestinian people, and was taken off the terror list. Abu Nidal is widely seen to have run a mafia organization–Abu Nidal was murdered by Saddam Hussein in 1992. The Kurdistan Workers Party operated exclusively in Turkey, and was secular. Bottom line Iraq was not on that list for having any links to al qaeda, bin laden or jihadist groups.
I wouldn’t expect you to know or understand any of this. Far be it for one of you toothless hillbillies to actually educate yourself before sacrificing your children and tax dollars to a bloody quagmire. You don’t know what you’re talking about, but like most of you boot-licking authoritarian idiots, you just can’t seem to wait to announce it.
TO MARIE CLAUDE:
The yellow cake that was there was old? in the tons? So then why would Valerie Wilson and her husband say it was never there? Bullshit. You can go under your kitchen sink, if you know how, and figure out how to blow things up with chemicals under your kitch sink. imagine what you can do with nuclear material.
don’t be stupid. don’t be liberal.
hmm do you find that Saddam is responsible of your “destroyed economy” today ?
People like you destroyed the economy. there’s a liberal in the white house who believes he’s doing the right thing by spending more and more money that he doesn’t have. just the fact that you’re unaware of this makes you look like an idiot. you would’ve been crying about your gas being 6 bucks a gallon if Saddam would’ve declared oil a currency. you’d be the first people crying.
Job losses lowest during the Bush years except for the last two years. Obama passes a stimulus that acts as a slush fund instead of creating jobs. that’s your boy’s economy.
Hindsight is always 20/20. The fact that you’d have faith or give a dirt bag like saddam hussein the benefit of the doubt over your own proves you’re a bigger dirtbag than he ever was.
Hussein supported the Palestinians — period. Any other alleged connections are and have been pure BS, especially anything and everything by this relentless numbnut (go check to see how many times “Palestinian” is mentioned.)
53. Fantom: …the teen kid down the street who didn’t know his head from his b-hole…..”
Dang Lou, I owe you an apology. I did not realize you were the kid down the street.’
Don’t think so Fantom. Sounds more like Lou Flautuloos is a dedicated apoplectic appologist because he saw his inside ‘oil for food’ investment blown up once Bush decided Iraq was the correct longitude and latitude for the death cultists to get their gate pass to a glorious demise. His affection for the term ‘toothless hillbillies’ has a distinct French ring to it.
It would be more appropriate to buy him a beer at a North Carolina watering hole heavily frequented by Marines – try Point Cherry. I’d love to see his ‘presention’ conserning his left field theories.
“It was not weapons grade uranium (blah, blah)”
And another strawman dies a painful death, slain by moho’s latest sockpuppet.
Nobody said it was weapons grade uranium, dolt.
blotto:
For pete’s sake. This is like draining a swamp.
“First, if you really believe that SH had no contact other than to let terrorists visit Iraq, then it is you who is “appallingly wrong”
Even that is understating what I said. Of course he had contact with terrorists. He ran a rogue state, in the middle of other rogue states, with powerful enemies on his south and east borders. He would have had contact with all sorts of people – terrorists included. The question I was asking was – did iraq have anything to do with terrorist attacks on the US? And the answer I gave was “no”. If he had, we’d have heard ALL about it back in 2003.
“Second, VP Cheney needs no vindication”
Oh yeah, he does.
“Third, ask the Kurds if SH had any WMD”
In 1988 he quite obviously had chemical weapons. He had them in 1991. In 2003 he did not have chemical weapons. What other bogus comparisons would you like to make?
“Fourth, ask any women who were gang-raped by SH henchmen whether our invasion and dismantling of his dictatorial regime was worth it”
For the ones who are still alive, it’s probably prove to be worth it. But that wasn’t the reason for the invasion. And before claiming it was, I suggest you read the congressional resolution that authorised the war (it’ll save you looking stoopid).
“Fifth, every NATO and UN investigation prior to invasion did state that SH had WMD”
That’s stretching it, just a bit. Bush claimed that iraq was a threat to world peace, that it posed a clear and present danger to the US. His press corp pushed the idea that he was connected with 9/11. None of which was true.
Lastly, for you and the left who support and defend Islam to decry what Pres. Bush did in Iraq is rather disingenuous. It was a noble effort to free millions of people only made worse by the ROE imposed by the left and the sanctimonious cries of you digenerate ingrates for what we have done.
johnmaylives:
“I guess the tons of Yellowcake uranium that was found in iraq in July 2008 was made up too. you know, the same dangerous substance that CIA desk jockey Valerie PLAIME Wilson said was never there”
Joe wilson said no such thing. He investigated an alleged plan to buy yellowcake from nigeria. The weapons inspectors already knew about the stuff that hussein had. Here’s why it matters – yellowcake is a pretty harmless mineral. You can’t use it to hurt someone unless you throw it at them. It’s not a weapon unless you enrich it – which is HARD. The inspectors had their eyes on the material and resources hussein had, therefore he wouldn’t have been able to enrich it without them knowing. The suggestion that he was clandestinely buying more strongly implied a new purpose – which the inspectors had declared to be impossible (i.e. hans blix correctly claimed that iraq’s nuclear program had been dismantled). Buying yellow cake was, therefore, a really big deal. The yellowcake he had was not such a big deal (although it was something that could be useful to somebody else, hence the disposal).
“It was transported to Canada and only modestly reported by CNN”
It was reported or it wasn’t. If the report didn’t set the news world alight, then I can only assume they had a clue.
That substance is WMD and eventually would’ve turned into nuclear weapons if Saddam had his way”
But saddam was not going to have his way. That’s kind of important – you can claim anything you like with “if saddam had his way”.
“I guess since YOU didn’t hear about it then I guess it’s not true”
Wrong on both counts.
“Never mind WMD, how about the fact that Saddam was planning on using oil as a foreign currency which would have likely destroyed our economy and other economies?”
Get a grip.
‘The question I was asking was – did iraq have anything to do with terrorist attacks on the US? And the answer I gave was “no”.’
And, your answer was wrong.
The Baathists were full on supporters of various terror groups, and Americans had been killed by those terrorists. A terrorist attack on Americans is a terrorist attack on the United States.
See post #4, open your eyes.
“That’s stretching it, just a bit. Bush claimed that iraq was a threat to world peace, that it posed a clear and present danger to the US. His press corp pushed the idea that he was connected with 9/11. None of which was true.”
Sure, they were no threat to world peace or to the United States as long as you overlook the many Americans (not to mention other folks) murdered by Iraq’s pet terrorists, the constant attacks on our aircraft patrolling the no-fly zones, Iraq’s previous attacks on Israel, Iran, Kuwait…no threat at all. None are so blind who will not see.
“yellowcake is a pretty harmless mineral. You can’t use it to hurt someone unless you throw it at them. It’s not a weapon unless you enrich it – which is HARD.”
It’s not that hard. The Baathists had done it before.
“The yellowcake he had was not such a big deal”
Oh, yes it was. All that stuff was supposed to have been disposed of many years before per the 1991 ceasefire agreement…only the IAEA decided to leave it where it was, instead of dispose of it, which would give the Baathists a leg up on restarting their nuclear weapons programs once the sanctions were lifted.
Not very trustworthy those Baathists and U.N. types.
johnmaylives
you are such an “educated” MSM good boy LMAO
about theyellowcake, learnabout the big conspiracy
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp11092005.html
as far as the rest, like Matthew said, get a grip !
“56. Lou Floospin:
Fantom:
You said “There is no denying that iraq was a moslim terrorist s’porting state.”
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Saddam Hussein lived in abject fear of facing Islamic uprisings, and he obviously took careful pains not to encourage such. He was on the terrorist support list for:
The State Department’s reason for including Iraq was that it provided bases to the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Abu Nidal organization (ANO).”
Are you actually saying that Abu Nidal was not a moslim. You really are dense even for a leftist America hater. The plo being taken off the terror list does not mean they were not still moslim terrorist. Your “secular” bs is just that bs.
Sadamn certainly ruled with a iron fist in his own country but he was not against using moslim terror as a weapon. Anymore than Hitler, who held a central interest as the Aryan Race supreme was against using those “nasty sub- human yellow Japs”( In Hitler vernacular) as allies in his war.
The fact is, where there is smoke there is fire. Sadamn was a dangerous tyrant capable of and did use various moslim terrorist groups to his purpose. Only a leftist fool like you believes differently.
Matthew,
did you not read, it was reported but very little. no, there is no it was reported or it wasn’t in regards to the liberal media. they chose to bury this story. yet anytime Obama would fart the media would make it sound like Andrea Bocelli.
Joe Wilson had reported that they were seeking to get the yc which means he was behind the eight ball b/c they had it already. if it was found by the military, the Saddam’s guys had it already.
“It’s not a weapon unless you enrich it” What do you think Saddam was going to do with it? Snort it?
You need to get a grip. Why WASN’T Saddam going to have his way? What stopped him from having his way?
Hey about the Saddam using his oil as currency, just go look it up. you’d been the first to scream about your energy prices if it did.
Like any lib who is cornered you use get a grip as a response. again, the fact that you’d be coming to a forum to stick up for a monster like saddam is troubling.
MARIE CLAUDE:
I don’t watch the MSM silly. I certainly don’t troll on some left wing website like counterpunch and take seriously an article written by a red diaper professor who clearly has an agenda. just look at some of the titles of his previous work about Japanese Homosexuality and “american imperialism”. oh, how gouache. also where are the writers sources beyond some left winged socialist newspapers and pubs from Europe. I’m supposed to believe the Europeans who bow to the God of George Soros and hoped and prayed that we’d leave Saddam alone so that they could do energy business with Saddam and make a killing off of him. I’d bet the farm that I’m speaking to either a European or a Canadian behind that screen. at least when I go to PJM i know the site is credible. that site is a joke.
MARIE CLOUD:
also, forgot to mention, times change new evidence comes in this garbage article is FOUR YEARS OLD! it’s almost irrelevant. if you have people like the Wilson’s, who I’d like to remind you EVERYONE in the CIA community knew that she rode a desk for years at the CIA it was no secret, claimed that yellowcake was not there or it was trying to be bought. big difference from it actually being found.
Fantom:
Are you actually saying that Abu Nidal was not a moslim. You really are dense even for a leftist America hater. The plo being taken off the terror list does not mean they were not still moslim terrorist. Your “secular” bs is just that bs.
One of the dumbest things I’ve ever read; many of the PLO’s leadership were Christians. Thinking, reading, knowing–not your game. Stick to berating your kids or wife or whatever, you don’t know anything about this.
56. Lou Floospin.
Here we have evidence of another manifestation of Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s Lou Floospin Dummy taking over, and speaking in tongues. Oh well, in a Universe of One, anything goes.
“I wouldn’t expect you to know or understand any of this. Far be it for one of you toothless hillbillies to actually educate yourself before sacrificing your children and tax dollars to a bloody quagmire. You don’t know what you’re talking about, but like most of you boot-licking authoritarian idiots, you just can’t seem to wait to announce it.”
Translation: I should be Mr. President, the current Mr. President is a failure. His Afghan policy is “…sacrificing your children and tax dollars to a bloody quagmire…” Bootlicking is the latest Modern Liberal form of love. You best follow Mr. President’s example, or Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s Lou Floospin Dummy will call you names.
And say Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever, isn’t hillbilly a racist pejorative used to by blacks to describe whites they don’t like? Is that racist or what?
“… boot-licking authoritarian… ” Do Turkeys wear boots too? Did you do you do that to Now and Then? You did call him “Master”.
Hey, current events say that a guy was pulled out of the cesspool. Why didn’t the guy just get up off the couch and walk out of Then Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s front door. Maybe Nurse Nancy was on TV. Compelling drama.
Van Jones in go-go boots? Did you get that from Nurse Nancy? Well, you still have that Inconvenient Truth in hand. Like your “Courage and Intelligence.”
And now Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s Lou Floospin Dummy will perform the trick it learned in Wannabe Jihad School and morph into anything his spine can think of.
Spine, metaphorically speaking.
johnmaylives
you’re free to remain dumb
sources quoted in the previous article ain’t of lefties papers, besides I can get many more, but you’re not worth of it
enjoy your failed cloudy empire
“69. Lou Floospin:
One of the dumbest things I’ve ever read; ”
Obviously you do not read what you write.
As for what you wrote, there may very well be a token Christian or two in the leadership of the PLO, the moslim terrorist Arafat did try to use any deception he could. I also note that the nazi’s had french collaborators too. On the local scene, my sisters erstwhile husband is a Lebanese Christian, there is no bond between Christians on the whole and moslims over there.
Now how about that Sadamn and his moslim terrorist. Lets look at Abu Nidal shall we. I note you never did say if he was moslim or not.
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rpt/fto/2801.htm
“Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) a.k.a. Black September, the Fatah Revolutionary Council, the Arab Revolutionary Council, the Arab Revolutionary Brigades, the Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims
Description: International terrorist organization led by Sabri al-Banna. Split from PLO in 1974. Made up of various functional committees, including political, military, and financial.
Activities: Has carried out terrorist attacks in 20 countries, killing or injuring almost 900 persons. Targets include the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Israel, moderate Palestinians, the PLO, and various Arab countries. Major attacks included the Rome and Vienna airports in December 1985, the Neve Shalom synagogue in Istanbul and the Pan Am Flight 73 hijacking in Karachi in September 1986, and the City of Poros day-excursion ship attack in July 1988 in Greece. Suspected of assassinating PLO deputy chief Abu Iyad and PLO security chief Abu Hul in Tunis in January 1991. ANO assassinated a Jordanian diplomat in Lebanon in January 1994 and has been linked to the killing of the PLO representative there. Has not attacked Western targets since the late 1980s.
Strength: Several hundred plus militia in Lebanon and limited overseas support structure.
Location/Area of Operation: Al-Banna may have relocated to Iraq in December 1998, where the group maintains a presence. Has an operational presence in Lebanon in the Bekaa Valley and several Palestinian refugee camps in coastal areas of Lebanon. Also has a presence in Sudan and Syria, among others. Has demonstrated ability to operate over wide area, including the Middle East, Asia, and Europe.
External Aid: Has received considerable support, including safehaven, training, logistic assistance, and financial aid from Iraq, Libya, and Syria (until 1987), in addition to close support for selected operations.”
Hmnn, also known as ” the Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims”, wonder if that moslim group was a threat to us.. “Activities: Has carried out terrorist attacks in 20 countries, killing or injuring almost 900 persons. Targets include the United States,”.. yep.
Oh, and lookie there… when it comes to support Sadamns Iraq is at the top of the list. “External Aid: Has received considerable support, including safehaven, training, logistic assistance, and financial aid from Iraq, Libya, and Syria (until 1987), in addition to close support for selected operations.
”
So Lue, can you say “Game set and Match”. Or in the vernacular of my favorite game.. Checkmate. You leftwing scum sure are easy.
Fantom:As for what you wrote, there may very well be a token Christian or two in the leadership of the PLO, the moslim terrorist Arafat did try to use any deception he could.
I just want to note how laughable such statements appear to anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the history of the PLO. Its well known that Arafat never went to mosque and never prayed; in fact, he faced a crisis of legitimacy over it later in his life when he ran the Palestinian Authority. Again, Abu Nidal was similarly “muslim”; it had absolutely nothing to do with the paradigm of Arab Nationalism at the time which eschewed religion and tended to align itself with socialism and communism. And as I noted, Abu Nidal was murdered on the order of Saddam Hussein himself 18 years ago.
Simply stating that you win at the end of every stack of nonsense text that you’ve published here may be big shakes in Retardsville, Iowa, but its an obvious source of amusement to anyone with average intelligence and access to a newspaper. What I mean, is please don’t stop posting.
No cause for worry all, my doctor’s just working out the kinks with the dosage for this new medication.
‘July 6: Joseph Wilson’s op-ed piece in the New York Times; says, “I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq’s nuclear weapons programme was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.”‘–Dopey Counterpunch article
LOL.
Threat?
Iraqi backed terrorists had been killing for people years, and some of them were even operating out of Iraq. The Iraqis themselves were constantly shooting at Coalition aircraft. I’d say we were a bit past the potential threat phase. That’s like wondering if the Japanese were a threat on 12/8/41.
And, it’s a bit irrelevant whether they were shopping for yellowcake, since the IAEA had thoughfully left hundred of tons of it laying around Iraq. Who cares if the Baathists were trying to get more?
Fantom
I also note that the nazi’s had french collaborators too
are you sure that that argument was necessary in your above ranting ?
otherwise, You’re goin to be surprised, Roosvelt was a nazy collaborator too, until an Ubot hit a merchand american ship, he was just sayin that the war in Europe wasn’t his business, but making businesses with any solvable stae was a matter of sorting the US out of the depression
and don’t tell me that any other nazy occupied country wasn’t collaborating as much as some French did, bizarre that that the baltic states, holland, Belgium, Hungary, Romania and Spain(though neutral, of course Italy had much more volontary soldiers into the Wehrmacht than us.
not quoting what trades they made with the Germans too
I understand that you had an unilateral source of history
“The debate over whether the invasion of Iraq was the right move will forever continue…”
People can debate as much as they want to, and we’ll keep saying the same thing: Any government that helps terrorists kill Americans is going to become toast, and the Baathist government is now toast (as are many of the terrorists).
Mission accomplished.
Have fun debating.
The Iraqis themselves were constantly shooting at Coalition aircraft.
LOL. You have no idea what terrorism means.
“76. Marie Claude:”
A little touchy there are we not c’est la vie. And yes fdr was a POS too, your point?
My point that a few Christians, or french for that mater, in token positions by those who oppress them does not negate what that oppessors organization had as it’s mission. Of the 5- 10 million so called “palistinians” there are only about 30,000 Christians, such is the level of intolerance, hatred , and bigotry from islam/moslims.
The PLO is first and for most moslim. And it is the moslim use of terror that is what we are discussing. Along with sadamns complicity in it. WHich has been established. No mater the protestations of such anti-Americans as Lou.
76. Marie Claude:
Oh, and Claude, it is not bizarre that those other countries had more soldiers in the Wehrmacht than you folks. Not even Paton wanted you guys fighting alongside.. face it, you are not very good at such.
Stick with America bashing, it is what you do best. After surrendering that is.
Of the 5- 10 million so called “palistinians” there are only about 30,000 Christians, such is the level of intolerance, hatred , and bigotry from islam/moslims.
Again, you don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about. You don’t even know how to spell Palestinian. Go live in Ramallah, Jerusalem or Bethlehem, or talk to someone else that has. They’d laugh in your face.
Matthew: It’s like talking to a five-year old!
First, Pres. Bush said he would hunt down terrorist wherever they were found. Iraq had been a haven for terrorist training and a safe-harbor so that put SH squarely in the bulls eye
Second,name something VP Cheney needs to take back, apologize for or even restate. I await your response to that.
Third, other posters have rebutted your dismal attempt at debate over whether SH had WMD. You just refuse to admit it–again like a five-year old caught doing something wrong.
Fourth, don’t have to look up our reasons. It was a humanitarian thing to do for millions of people. So are you saying that the left only supports humanitarion actions when a lefty is president? You are not even worth futher debate.
Fifth, well nothing has to be said since it is all right there. If you can submit to us that prior to the war, both NATO and the UN did not think SH and Iraq were a threat to us all then I will gladly admit you won this debate.
“His press corp pushed the idea that he was connected with 9/11.” This little gem is quite a fabrication but since it comes from a lefty who believes his won lies, well…..
Fantom, just that I am fed up to read BS
in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation … it would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/12/07/directive-number-9/
an interesting article about the art of making rumors and how they finally are hold for truths
“LOL. You have no idea what terrorism means.”
Have reading comprehension problems much?
I didn’t say that was terrorism.
Not even Paton wanted you guys fighting alongside.. face it, you are not very good at such.
sure, Patton had such a bad temper that Eisenhower sent him right away into the Ardennes, and no French would have complied to him, but Leclerc did the same job, even faster than Patton
not good ? really ?
how about your war of Independence, had we not fought it, you would still be subject of the gracious majesty of England
and you would be called Tommies
Stick with America bashing, it is what you do best. After surrendering that is.
surrending, uh not faster than the Brits, Dunkeerke retreat anyone ?
Bashing, hmm, not at all I am responding to BS
but you did a great job in french bashing, almost like racism a few years ago
“73. Lou Floospin:
Fantom:As for what you wrote, there may very well be a token Christian or two in the leadership of the PLO, the moslim terrorist Arafat did try to use any deception he could.
I just want to note how laughable such statements appear to anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the history of the PLO. Its well known that Arafat never went to mosque and never prayed; in fact, he faced a crisis of legitimacy over it later in his life when he ran the Palestinian Authority. Again, Abu Nidal was similarly “muslim”; it had absolutely nothing to do with the paradigm of Arab Nationalism at the time which eschewed religion and tended to align itself with socialism and communism. And as I noted, Abu Nidal was murdered on the order of Saddam Hussein himself 18 years ago.
Simply stating that you win at the end of every stack of nonsense text that you’ve published here may be big shakes in Retardsville, Iowa, but its an obvious source of amusement to anyone with average intelligence and access to a newspaper. What I mean, is please don’t stop posting.”
Wow so much stupidity and provable lies .. where do I start. Last first as is my wont.
Lets see, “Simply stating that you win at the end of every stack of nonsense text that you’ve published” at the end of every “stack of nonsense” or just the one where I linked the actual proof from the State Dept(Clintons State dept at that) which showed you for the moron you are? Any rate that would be One post when you claim it was all my post’s. That makes you a liar now does it not.
Next, maybe lying, maybe mistaken, or you may be just stupid on this next one. “And as I noted, Abu Nidal was murdered on the order of Saddam Hussein himself 18 years ago.” Au contraire mon crétin…… http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1405365/Saddam-killed-Abu-Nidal-over-al-Qaeda-row.html
“By Con Coughlin
Published: 12:01AM BST 25 Aug 2002
Abu Nidal, the Palestinian terrorist, was murdered on the orders of Saddam Hussein after refusing to train al-Qa’eda fighters based in Iraq, The Telegraph can reveal.”
Looks like it was just seven years ago. Are you lying Lou, or just do not know what you are talking about?
I note that Sadamn said ABU committed suicide. You have never doubted what your Bud Sadamn said before, why now. Also taken from that link is that Sadamn killed Ol Abu because he would not train Al Queda….. opps. Do you believe that is why Sadamn killed Abu? If not why just beleive part of it. The part you wish to believe.
Keep posting Lou, you have proven you will lie. Now what else about you will you prove?
Iraqi backed terrorists had been killing for people years, and some of them were even operating out of Iraq. The Iraqis themselves were constantly shooting at Coalition aircraft. I’d say we were a bit past the potential threat phase.
Literate people are capable of making the connections you set forth in your writing. Your first sentence states that Iraqi backed terrorists were killing people, the next includes the idea that Iraq was shooting at coalition aircraft. In truth, god knows what you meant to write; apparently you don’t even know. But since words have meaning, I can only find what’s in the written text.
85. Marie Claude:
how about your war of Independence, had we not fought it, you would still be subject of the gracious majesty of England
and you would be called Tommies ”
There is that, mayhap. But we would be P.O.M.E.s, not Tommies you you cheese eating surrender monkey.
And BTW, I do not Bash the french, that would be like tripping a gimp. Not much sport in that now is there?
.
81. Lou Floospin:
Sad Lou, real sad. I almost feel sorry for you. Being reduced to nothing more than a speltin’ Nazi. If you were not such a leftist scumbag I would feel sorry for but now I laugh at you.
Fantom. Yeah, one story in the Telegraph in 2002. Here’s another story, from Robert Fisk, except unlike your story, which relies on unnamed sources and mystery documents, this one is well sourced and recent:
Iraqi secret police believed that the notorious Palestinian assassin Abu Nidal was working for the Americans as well as Egypt and Kuwait when they interrogated him in Baghdad only months before the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq. Hitherto secret documents which are now in the hands of The Independent – written by Saddam Hussein’s brutal security services for Saddam’s eyes only – state that he had been “colluding” with the Americans and, with the help of the Egyptians and Kuwaitis, was trying to find evidence linking Saddam and al-Qa’ida.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/abu-nidal-notorious-palestinian-mercenary-was-a-us-spy-972812.html
It makes no difference as I noted. Abu Nidal has been dead for nearly twenty years. Like I said, don’t stop this, please.
Fantom, But you’re tripping anyway
Say the word Muslim and look what comes out of the Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s Lou Floospin Twilight Zone Dummy in the Mirror..
This is the Soviet Nurse Nancy Mirror. Can’t you do better than this?
“No cause for worry all, my doctor’s just working out the kinks with the dosage for this new medication.”
Dec 10, 2009 – 9.00 am
“Blistering in its simplicity. Hilarious in its cadence and rhythm. Keep up the good work.”
Now and Then Dec 7, 2009 – 7:45 pm
This is the Religious Mirror.
25. Lou Floospin.
“But I’m glad that people like him are writing; it almost seems like God’s way of streaking America’s idiots with a highlighter pen.”
Dec 9, 2009 – 8.51 am
This is the Humanitarian Mirror
43. Lou Floospin.
“Stupid bs. Its well denied and only supported in dark corners of the internet where people are so stupid its difficult to conceive their being able to feed themselves without aid.”
Dec 9, 2009 – 1.12 pm
This is the just plain old boring moho.
45. Lou Floospin.
“Idiot is a compliment to one like you.”
Dec 9, 2009 – 2.48 pm
This is the Cool Military Jargon Mirror. I mean cool.
47. Lou Floospin.
“Yeah, that’s why you went to Iraq yourself, rather than indoctrinating the teen kid down the street who didn’t know his head from his b-hole. Salute to Commander Phoenix48 of the 101st Chair-borne. Idiot.”
Dec 9, 2009 – 3.38 pm
This is a proof the Mirror is Fair and Balanced. Notice the use of “…even in conservative circles.” Yeah, Iran is a … Superpower!.
55. Lou Floospin.
” Iran is the only superpower in the region now. Its fairly common knowledge, even in conservative circles. Dumb@$$.”
Dec 9, 2009 – 7.45 pm
Now we have full gale rage. The centerpiece here is the racist use of “hillbillies”. This in spite of the Cool Military Jargon, whereas there are many “hillbillies” in the military, who do protect the Mirror’s right to produce a facsimile of what real military personal might say. Wasn’t Bill Clinton a “hillbilly”? Gratuitous bootlicking, similar to a Pee Wee I Know Van Jones Fantasy.
56. Lou Floospin.
“Far be it for one of you toothless hillbillies… …boot-licking authoritarian idiots… ”
Dec 9, 2009 – 8.04 pm
This is a direct put down of the Developmentally Disabled, and Iowa. A Modern Liberal at it’s hypocritical best.
73. Lou Floospin.
“Simply stating that you win at the end of every stack of nonsense text that you’ve published here may be big shakes in Retardsville, Iowa…”
Dec 10, 2009 – 8.58 am
And to quote directly from the Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s Lou Foolspin cesspool, “I can only find what’s in the written text.”
Agreement.
87. Lou Floospin.
“I can only find what’s in the written text.”
Dec 10, 2009 – 10:38 am
29. Moho.
“Back to work, you shiftless cousin-f%^^%ers.”
LOL. When you got it, you got it.
Dec 7, 2009 – 5:55 pm
“Courage and Intelligence” on display. Yeah you really “got it”.
I apologize again. My doctor says that lithium’s going to really do it this time.
Thanks Mr. Lucky for posting the best of Moho or whatever you’re calling him. Whoever that guy is, he’s hilarious.
94. God’s Balls.
“Thanks Mr. Lucky for posting the best of Moho or whatever you’re calling him. Whoever that guy is, he’s hilarious.”
Good of you laugh at Pee Wee moho – Anon – Shawn Ondeen Whatever’s Lou Foolspin’s Balls. The cesspool could use a little sunshine.
Still does not mean the war should have played out like it did. Pure Pentagon bureaucratic negligence in executing a war plan. That is where so much of the anti war theme was given credibility.
Watching thousands of men die and spending hundreds of billions of dollars watching these idiots try to come up with a plan as they go is not something we should be proud of an try to encourage to ever happen again. Spare me the situation on the ground arguement, we made so many mistake in the first year we put our forces in that position. The war crowd should not gloss over the start of the war.
96. tajitj:
I hear that. But it could be worse… Tarawa anybody? Government generally sucks at whatever it does.
“Abu Nidal has been dead for nearly twenty years.”
He was killed in 2002, a few months before we invaded Iraq. I think this is the third time myself or someone else has mentioned that.
Maybe moho will catch on one of these days.
“You People” obviously didn’t get the memo that all the rest of the press did…”Bush Lied, People Died”…get with the program…
What’s your point Dave Surls? Can you use Abu Nidal to link Hussein to Al Qaeda? I doubt it, unless you’re relying on the same level of journalism that convinced people Saddam Hussein was developing a nuclear bomb in the next three days.
“What’s your point Dave Surls?”
The points are:
1. The Baathists were helping terrorists who killed Americans.
2. That’s an act of war against America, and we should respond accordingly.
3. Leftoids lie about pretty much everything.
You’ve got to be kidding me. Do you or do you not understand that Saddam Hussein had Abu Nidal murdered. That douchebag got the date wrong, but he certainly didn’t get that wrong. You live in a fantasy world. And I’m pretty sure that you’ve never served in the military, nor would you. Prime A Chicken Hawking coward.
“Do you or do you not understand that Saddam Hussein had Abu Nidal murdered.”
That’s good. That’s one less terrorist/Baathist we had to kill or capture when we invaded Iraq.
Always a good thing when your enemies turn on each.
102. Mary Steiner: And when did you take your leftist bs on the road to Bosnia for a bit of the Red Cross sacrifice?
Typical anti-war pacifist bunk. Scratch a progressive find a liar a theif and a pompous anti-exceptionalist. Surrender and disarmament as the only possible policy in the global warming nuclear age. Anyone who supports our remaining a military superpower INTENT on war when necessary is a ‘chicken hawk.’
Rich Vail hit the gordian knot. Mary’s sniping is ‘chicken feed’ compared to the mileage Dem’s cravenly abused to get back in power. What so many people ascribe to Bush’s unpopularity after Katrina was in fact the price of so badly executing Iraq.
It will never change. And it NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED.
What about evidence on Pakistan?
1) Passed on nuclear weapon making secrets to N Korea, Iran to name a few.
2) Is a haven/ supporter to myriad of terrorist organizations, including Al Qeada, Taliban.
3) Committed genocide in Bangladesh in ’71.
4) Is keeping Kashmir and Assam on the boil by supporting terrorists. It is now openly supporting attacks on other parts of India like Bombay and Bangalore.
5) Devouring billions of dollars in US funds for no tangible results.
Do you even wonder why US miltary took only 4 years to wrap up WW2, against two much larger military forces?
By current logic, WW2 would have been fought with US attacking only Spain and Italy and paying the Japs and Germans not to kill the Chinese and Jews or to attack the US.