And where do you a-holes live, Sadie?

Amazing site, this. Two openly anti-Semitic posts (23 & 27) and nary a peep from the rightist morons. Keep up the good work, Rosenthal, I think you’ve found your audience.

I do not waste my time reading Marxist propaganda: I read the The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke. The conclusions of the author are the points you see me raising here.

I’ll tell you this much. Goodrick-Clarke is no Marxist. Indeed he almost seems to root for the scum he explains in his book. I suggest you read The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology and then come back and argue with me, if you wish.

Say what you want about Fascism or Communism. Nazism was a racist philosophy at its base and had nothing to do with the other two totalitarian ‘isms’, Communism or Fascism.

Nazism was based in the insecurities of Austrian Germans who found themselves a minority even in the Crown Lands of Austria in Austria-Hungary after 1867, and who developed a theory of racial superiory of “Aryans” over the world. This was their way of coping with the rising nationalism of the Poles, Slovenes, Croats, and their htred of Jews who seemed to pollute “their” Vienna.

By contrast, Communism and Fascism were both utilitarian philosophies to provide solutions to problems of state and economic stability (Fascism) or distribution of wealth (Communism). Neither required any racial or national characteristics, though Mussolini’s goals for his corporatist ideas was the resurrection of the Roman Empire. Eventually, under pressure from Hitler, Mussolini did write in anti-Jewish laws in Italy, but for a long time there were many Jewish Fascists in Italy.

However, the ideas that finally led to Nazism were racial in nature. Jews were the “Gegenrasse” the representatives of evil who had to be exterminated for the sake of purifying the world. Gypsies (Roma)were born criminals who had to be killed off for the security of the new country of Aryans, and homosexuals, retards and others were defectives to be eliminated, again for the sake of the purity of the race. None of this had to do with socialism or any other of the secular ‘isms’ that sought to redistribute wealth or guarantee the security of the state and the capitalist systems of economic organization. As I told you, Hitler used Mussolini’s methods of economic governance as a model because they did not look like communism, but guaranteed him control of the capital in the Germany he sought to build.

So what does this have to do with the article at hand? The Arabs who admired (and who still admire) Hitler have now been joined by the so-called “left” in Germany, as well as the Nazis themselves, who are now openly aligning themselves with their admirers. But this will not last.

The racial aspects of the Nazi mentality, a mentality which has never left either Germany or Austria, will reassert themselves when these Nazis realize that they are aligning themselves with the rapists of Aryan women. And they will turn on the Moslems in Europe just as others are turning on them elsewhere in Europe. That is what the future holds – for Moslems in Europe in particular – death and blood in the streets.

Anyway, the link:

“DVU und Linke mit Moslems gegen Juden” (“DVU and Left with Muslims against Jews”). DVU is the “Deutsche Volksunion” – one of the 3 main Neo-Nazi parties presently active in Germany.

http://www.pi-news.net/2009/09/dvu-und-linke-mit-moslems-gegen-juden

I wasn’t really reffering to troop support but support for the invasion itself. they way it turned out there was quite a vacuum and no real plan to stablise the Iraq nation. thus easy pickings for al Qaeda.

maybe it is a moot point but witout widespread (national, inside the USA and international) support the post millitary objective could not be met. nesecatating te surge ..again a millitary chore. I do feel that it will be again a big problem after the US leaves Iraq.

-… but when the congress started to attack Bush and other western countries shied away from the US al qaeda entered the vacuum (it is complicated and there were many failures millitary and civilian but the dissent and anti-Bush sentiment did aid the enemy) ..if not there then somewhere else. it is a mute point.

Moot point. And I have to disagree. It wasn’t the lack of support for the troops that spurred al Qaeda to move in. They rushed into Iraq just as soon as Saddam’s infrastructure was dismantled. They built strength while other insurgencies were already active. None of that was contingent on support for the troops or lack thereof. The fact that they kept on fighting long after it was obvious they’d never drive out Coalition forces was due largely to the unabashed support the media provided for al Qaeda, however – that much I’ll agree with.

The real problem with the Iraq conflict was the Clinton administration’s legacy of dealing with terrorists as criminals rather than military belligerents in their own right. That’s no one’s “fault”, per se, it’s just another example of the fact that few commanders get any war “right” the first time. Once Saddam was defeated, Coalition forces immediately went into “reconstruction” mode under a bureaucracy headed up by a civilian (Bremer) instead of remaining in active combat mode under a military commander like David Petraeus. The reason for this was that the terrorist faction was considered a law enforcement problem, not a genuine military problem. Commanders on the ground knew better, but Washington – still being advised based on the residual “intelligence” that opened us up to 9/11 – did not. So that hesitation period between the “Mission Accomplished” event on the U.S.S. Lincoln and The Surge provided an opening for al Qaeda – and most of the EU, as well as the media were all too eager to help them, at least in terms of moral support.

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@64. Marie Claude: – just look at your favorite blogs and medias

Sorry MC – I’m genuinely unfamiliar with what you’re referring to here. So I wouldn’t know where to start or what to look for.

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@65. Ruvy: – you have managed to put the cart before the horse…

This isn’t about carts or horses. It’s about practical similarities in ideology. In that context, Nazis and fascists ARE on the left. Whether they “used” xenophobia and militarism or they were “all about” xenophobia and militarism is irrelevant.

The facts are these: socialism and its derivatives – fascism, nazism and communism – all require some level of totalitarian control over the population in order to enforce their bogus, unnatural, socially suicidal policies. In all of these cases, the State is virtually all-powerful, which goes against human nature and the human being’s innate desire for liberty. This totalitarian aspect is the common denominator that makes all of these ideologies leftist.

As recommended above, just read Jonah Goldberg’s book – the link is up there. He presents an irrefutable case that I’m not going to repeat here in its entirety. You’re welcome to read it, or not. Entirely up to you. Either way, knowing what I now know from the references provided in Goldberg’s book, I don’t find your argument persuasive at all.

…A Ninny?… now that really hurt….and

Thanks for the effort…I made my kids read it..

but they laughed and said I was still old and boring.

All the best.

I see you have managed to put the cart before the horse in attempts to stick Nazis and Fascists on the left. This is nonsense because it distorts reality in both cases. And of course, putting the cart before the horse gets the cart nowhere – which is where your argument goes.

The Nazis did not use racism or xenophobia – they were all about racism, xenophobia, and the superiority of the Aryan race! They used Mussolini’s corporatist methods to run a state because it was convenient to do, and because it wasn’t communism – and they did it better than Mussolini did, building a prosperous country in a few short years.

Mussolini started as a socialist – and broke with them because he was an Italian nationalist who wanted to see the expansion of the Kingdom of Italy to include all Italian speakers, and eventually as much of the Mediterranean coastal lands as he could grab in resurrecting a Roman Empire. This was very different from the Socialists, who wanted to avoid fighting in WWI unless they could use it to overthrow the states and introduce their revolutionary societies in a world revolution. They attempted just this in the chaos that hit post-war Germany and Hungary, and succeeded in the Russian Empire.

Having cut himself off from socialists, and having become disgusted with the way the Italian state functioned after 1918, Mussolini developed alliances with Italian business leaders and developed the corporatist concepts where the state would dictate how capitalism would work – the very same concepts that Obama is using today in the States – Fascism.

The six men that Hitler spied on for the German Army in 1919, and then joined himself – the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei – were racists to begin with and adopted the title they did – National Socialist German Workers Party – because they were working men. If they had been professional men, they would have used an entirely different title, and the term “Nazi” would never have come to be.