Comments on: Neither McCain Nor Obama Understands Pakistan http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/ Thu, 16 Feb 2012 02:25:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: deguello http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-125371 deguello Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:06:10 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-125371 Hey, Mcnumbskull, and the Ohole don't understand anything about economics,history,taxes,literature etc.In post intellect,affirmative action America.ignorance and inability to understand current phenomena are petty irrelevancies.All you need is hope,cheap mortages,welfare and war,and the boobs will vote for you! Hey, Mcnumbskull, and the Ohole don’t understand anything about economics,history,taxes,literature etc.In post intellect,affirmative action America.ignorance and inability to understand current phenomena are petty irrelevancies.All you need is hope,cheap mortages,welfare and war,and the boobs will vote for you!

]]> By: Marc Malone http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123953 Marc Malone Sun, 12 Oct 2008 06:37:37 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123953 Someone75 - You give Bush too much credit. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. Broadsword - Yes, Bin Laden declared war on us, but Pakistan did not. We may not take military action in Pakistan. As I understand it, we have flyover and land travel permission. My understanding is that military action is specifically prohibited, except in self-defense. Basically, the agreement is to allow our supplies to travel from port through to Afghanistan. This is why the Pakistani government has been protesting our cross-border raids, and promising to defend their sovereignity. I believe the tribal areas are specifically proscribed. The Right of Passage agreement is very limited. I don't have full info on this stuff. Who knows what it is this week? Someone75 – You give Bush too much credit. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Broadsword – Yes, Bin Laden declared war on us, but Pakistan did not.

We may not take military action in Pakistan. As I understand it, we have flyover and land travel permission. My understanding is that military action is specifically prohibited, except in self-defense. Basically, the agreement is to allow our supplies to travel from port through to Afghanistan.

This is why the Pakistani government has been protesting our cross-border raids, and promising to defend their sovereignity. I believe the tribal areas are specifically proscribed. The Right of Passage agreement is very limited. I don’t have full info on this stuff. Who knows what it is this week?

]]> By: Someone75 http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123750 Someone75 Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:14:06 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123750 Michael: Bush obviously misled congress, intentionally. It's a matter of record. You can't afford to be that naive. There's a whole big world outside the shrinking sanctuary of neo-conservatism. Michael:

Bush obviously misled congress, intentionally. It’s a matter of record. You can’t afford to be that naive. There’s a whole big world outside the shrinking sanctuary of neo-conservatism.

]]> By: Oscar Goesto http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123669 Oscar Goesto Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:01:52 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123669 Leave Pakistan alone. It is just like 99% of the world, full of peace loving citizens who would like nothing better than to worry about daughter's on dates, shopping congestion in malls, and what's playing at the movies on Saturday night. America needs to withdraw militarily from the planet, period. Any other theory is lost in its own artifice of sophistry. America's founders, as intellectual as Adams or as capitalistic as Washington, were men nonetheless united in their personal inner turmoils with power and its cautious administration, lest it overstep its boundaries and provoke reaction. Pure principles of international non-interference, independence, and disentanglement guided the founding conscience of America. Washington's first major martial victory in 1776 was completely bloodless, as the British withdrew their forces after 9 years of occupying Boston. America rose in might from the 1700' to the 1900's exactly because it did not get involved in wars as the aggressor, which otherwise bankrupted nations like England and others over the centuries, in their expansive attempts to "control" the international political and commercial landscape by means of empires. If America resumed her anti-bellicose philosophical international leadership, the 99% of people on this planet would not support any local war machine of their own in power, and get on with their day to day lives as peace loving citizens in the pursuit of their own happiness. Believing that is not necessary. It is a calculable reality and truth that in every mathematical physical or sociological philosophical scenario: for avery action there is a reaction. Just because a stronger person can throw an apple harder away from the earth than a weaker one, and in the apple's longer absence until the force of gravity returns it, does not mean that the mightier thrower has conquered the rules of the universe. So it goes with America's, and once Britain's, and the Austro-Hungarian's, and the Roman, and other empires, for every military action there is, not in a day, not in a year, or maybe even for 100 years, but eventually, a reaction equal to the initial military action. In today's nuclear terms, we can only pray Americans take the lead on this for the sake of the planet, which other nations will emulate, and once again become the peace-loving economical envy of the world, with ever lengthening line-ups of immigrants at here door to prove it. To emulate America as she is now is to invite military disregard for our boundaries, to invite our occupation, and to invite war with us. Leave Pakistan alone. It is just like 99% of the world, full of peace loving citizens who would like nothing better than to worry about daughter’s on dates, shopping congestion in malls, and what’s playing at the movies on Saturday night. America needs to withdraw militarily from the planet, period. Any other theory is lost in its own artifice of sophistry. America’s founders, as intellectual as Adams or as capitalistic as Washington, were men nonetheless united in their personal inner turmoils with power and its cautious administration, lest it overstep its boundaries and provoke reaction. Pure principles of international non-interference, independence, and disentanglement guided the founding conscience of America. Washington’s first major martial victory in 1776 was completely bloodless, as the British withdrew their forces after 9 years of occupying Boston. America rose in might from the 1700′ to the 1900′s exactly because it did not get involved in wars as the aggressor, which otherwise bankrupted nations like England and others over the centuries, in their expansive attempts to “control” the international political and commercial landscape by means of empires. If America resumed her anti-bellicose philosophical international leadership, the 99% of people on this planet would not support any local war machine of their own in power, and get on with their day to day lives as peace loving citizens in the pursuit of their own happiness. Believing that is not necessary. It is a calculable reality and truth that in every mathematical physical or sociological philosophical scenario: for avery action there is a reaction. Just because a stronger person can throw an apple harder away from the earth than a weaker one, and in the apple’s longer absence until the force of gravity returns it, does not mean that the mightier thrower has conquered the rules of the universe. So it goes with America’s, and once Britain’s, and the Austro-Hungarian’s, and the Roman, and other empires, for every military action there is, not in a day, not in a year, or maybe even for 100 years, but eventually, a reaction equal to the initial military action. In today’s nuclear terms, we can only pray Americans take the lead on this for the sake of the planet, which other nations will emulate, and once again become the peace-loving economical envy of the world, with ever lengthening line-ups of immigrants at here door to prove it. To emulate America as she is now is to invite military disregard for our boundaries, to invite our occupation, and to invite war with us.

]]> By: Broadsword http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123594 Broadsword Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:05:01 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123594 "... report on this on NPR 2 hours ago about 20,000 refugees fleeing Pakistan into Afghanistan. 'Is this because the border is drawn by the West?' asked the NPR correpsondent. “Yes, yes - absolutely,” replied the Pashtuni guy." How many people did NPR talk to in order to get this answer? Who knew the English speaker they found had the pulse of 20000 refugees? Malone wrote: "We have to address the alliances with Pakistan..." Do you have that address? Can't we just email them? Again, Mark M wrote: "Someone75, it is NEVER the right thing to do, unless we are specifically attacked/declared war upon..." Have you read or heard of Bin Laden's 1996 fatwa is entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places" ? He "specifically" declared war on us, and "specifically" attacked us. "Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history." “… report on this on NPR 2 hours ago about 20,000 refugees fleeing Pakistan into Afghanistan. ‘Is this because the border is drawn by the West?’ asked the NPR correpsondent. “Yes, yes – absolutely,” replied the Pashtuni guy.” How many people did NPR talk to in order to get this answer? Who knew the English speaker they found had the pulse of 20000 refugees?
Malone wrote: “We have to address the alliances with Pakistan…” Do you have that address? Can’t we just email them?
Again, Mark M wrote: “Someone75, it is NEVER the right thing to do, unless we are specifically attacked/declared war upon…” Have you read or heard of Bin Laden’s 1996 fatwa is entitled “Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places” ? He “specifically” declared war on us, and “specifically” attacked us. “Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history.”

]]> By: john from cinncinati http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123589 john from cinncinati Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:00:12 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123589 yes of course Americans in general are incapable of understanding world events,we don't speak second languages and we have never traveled outside our county. rubes all of us, i can't believe that as long as we have been in that area that no one has learned anything. the lawless areas were bombed by unknown (PREDATOR DRONES) aircraft and the new president says in a big announcement we will defend our sovereignty. he then immediately moves government troops into the"lawless area" with the consent of some of the tribes. some of the lawless tribes squawk about bigger government in their life and then the government begins kicking the ever loving stuffing out of them. So you think we had anything to do with that or it just happened? the rule of unintended consequences came into play. you think that maybe it was a good excuse to go after those happy go lucky talibums that murdered his wife. are we, being rubes, the only ones that forget what was said and done 6 months ago. i would guess that some radical islamist faction has worn out their welcome with the new president. the lawless tribes want someone to save them from somebody with bigger guns. whats that saying about security and freedom, they will end up with neither. what they are going to end up with is a new paradigm. here's a shameless plug for GwB. his policy has not failed in Iraq, it has been successful. granted it has been mishandled and it was sketchy, but it looks like its gonna live. the Iraqi plan still has to bear fruit, and we are gonna have to wait to see if it is sweet. hopefully it will be successful beyond our wildest dreams. yes of course Americans in general are incapable of understanding world events,we don’t speak second languages and we have never traveled outside our county. rubes all of us, i can’t believe that as long as we have been in that area that no one has learned anything. the lawless areas were bombed by unknown (PREDATOR DRONES) aircraft and the new president says in a big announcement we will defend our sovereignty. he then immediately moves government troops into the”lawless area” with the consent of some of the tribes. some of the lawless tribes squawk about bigger government in their life and then the government begins kicking the ever loving stuffing out of them. So you think we had anything to do with that or it just happened? the rule of unintended consequences came into play. you think that maybe it was a good excuse to go after those happy go lucky talibums that murdered his wife. are we, being rubes, the only ones that forget what was said and done 6 months ago. i would guess that some radical islamist faction has worn out their welcome with the new president. the lawless tribes want someone to save them from somebody with bigger guns. whats that saying about security and freedom, they will end up with neither. what they are going to end up with is a new paradigm.
here’s a shameless plug for GwB. his policy has not failed in Iraq, it has been successful. granted it has been mishandled and it was sketchy, but it looks like its gonna live. the Iraqi plan still has to bear fruit, and we are gonna have to wait to see if it is sweet. hopefully it will be successful beyond our wildest dreams.

]]> By: ThinkPakistan http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123572 ThinkPakistan Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:19:08 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123572 @Whiskey: Pakistan doesn't have 100+ nukes under tenuous control. Pakistan has maybe 50+ nukes, under one of the most secure regiments in the world. The US military after inspecting the facility signed off on it as "air-tight" during the Musharraf government. This rumor about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal falling into the hands of terrorists is just as possible as it happening in the United States. It's good propaganda but there is no truth to it. @Whiskey:

Pakistan doesn’t have 100+ nukes under tenuous control. Pakistan has maybe 50+ nukes, under one of the most secure regiments in the world. The US military after inspecting the facility signed off on it as “air-tight” during the Musharraf government.

This rumor about Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal falling into the hands of terrorists is just as possible as it happening in the United States. It’s good propaganda but there is no truth to it.

]]> By: ThinkPakistan http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123568 ThinkPakistan Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:13:41 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123568 I think you are all missing something here. Pakistan and its people have regularly been used by the US government, both for its strategic position and with the thieving politicians they return to the Parliament. While Asif Zardari was living in the United States for the past 5 years, the US did nothing to uncover or seize the assets that he has purchased with laundered money in Florida, Texas and New York. If the US government had done that much, the tone of the Pakistani people would have changed. Instead, Musharraf was forced to accept an agreement (National Reconcilitation Ordinance) absolving all corruption politicians of all their crimes and allowing them to participate in the February elections. The Bush administration even went as far as to demand that Benazir be the Prime Minister and Musharraf could stay President. All of this is in violation of the Constitution of Pakistan. Also, I take objection to the reference that "they are all barbarians." If Americans make their judgments based on what they see on the news, then you really have no clue as to what is and is not going on in Pakistan. Should be take the KKK, Neo Nazis and Sarah Palin's religious right to be the norm of the American people? Are you all racists that can tolerate someone coming from another country and making a living in the US of A? Categorizing all Pakistanis because of the .000000001% that support or participate in extremism is unfair. Pakistan struggles because our "elected" politicians come with Washington (PPP) and London's (PML-Nawaz) approvals and tacit support of whatever they do. A little known fact, during Nawaz Sharif's government, his supporters stormed the Supreme Court of Pakistan to make sure that a case couldn't be heard against him. The Chief Justice was removed in his government also, but we didn't hear anything from the corridors of power then. Until Washington supports a true government of the people in Pakistan and helps to bring to justice the politicians that have stolen from Pakistan and hid the booty in the US and UK banks, Pakistan will not get better. Give Pakistan a chance and you will see that is is a great, peace loving country. I should know, I live there. I think you are all missing something here. Pakistan and its people have regularly been used by the US government, both for its strategic position and with the thieving politicians they return to the Parliament. While Asif Zardari was living in the United States for the past 5 years, the US did nothing to uncover or seize the assets that he has purchased with laundered money in Florida, Texas and New York. If the US government had done that much, the tone of the Pakistani people would have changed.

Instead, Musharraf was forced to accept an agreement (National Reconcilitation Ordinance) absolving all corruption politicians of all their crimes and allowing them to participate in the February elections. The Bush administration even went as far as to demand that Benazir be the Prime Minister and Musharraf could stay President. All of this is in violation of the Constitution of Pakistan.

Also, I take objection to the reference that “they are all barbarians.” If Americans make their judgments based on what they see on the news, then you really have no clue as to what is and is not going on in Pakistan. Should be take the KKK, Neo Nazis and Sarah Palin’s religious right to be the norm of the American people? Are you all racists that can tolerate someone coming from another country and making a living in the US of A?

Categorizing all Pakistanis because of the .000000001% that support or participate in extremism is unfair. Pakistan struggles because our “elected” politicians come with Washington (PPP) and London’s (PML-Nawaz) approvals and tacit support of whatever they do. A little known fact, during Nawaz Sharif’s government, his supporters stormed the Supreme Court of Pakistan to make sure that a case couldn’t be heard against him. The Chief Justice was removed in his government also, but we didn’t hear anything from the corridors of power then.

Until Washington supports a true government of the people in Pakistan and helps to bring to justice the politicians that have stolen from Pakistan and hid the booty in the US and UK banks, Pakistan will not get better.

Give Pakistan a chance and you will see that is is a great, peace loving country. I should know, I live there.

]]> By: Michael Lonie http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123476 Michael Lonie Sat, 11 Oct 2008 06:02:34 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123476 "How do you feel about willfully misleading congress to get us into a war?" Who did that? Not Dubya. He gave Congress the best intel he could get on Iraq and its nuke program. The estimate of the Bush Administration that Saddam was pursuing nukes and could not be allowed to get them was the same as that of the Clinton Administration. In any case there were other reasons for taking Saddam down, an essential cmapaign in the war against the jihadist terrorists, even if Obama is not sophisticated enough to understand them. “How do you feel about willfully misleading congress to get us into a war?”

Who did that? Not Dubya. He gave Congress the best intel he could get on Iraq and its nuke program. The estimate of the Bush Administration that Saddam was pursuing nukes and could not be allowed to get them was the same as that of the Clinton Administration. In any case there were other reasons for taking Saddam down, an essential cmapaign in the war against the jihadist terrorists, even if Obama is not sophisticated enough to understand them.

]]> By: Someone75 http://pjmedia.com/blog/neither-mccain-nor-obama-understands-pakistan/#comment-123428 Someone75 Sat, 11 Oct 2008 03:34:42 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35619#comment-123428 Marc: Really? I figured you'd think it was okay, if it was necessary. I'm not for getting into unnecessary wars, but I can understand how some urgent situations require action. How do you feel about willfully misleading congress to get us into a war? heh heh . . . Marc:

Really? I figured you’d think it was okay, if it was necessary. I’m not for getting into unnecessary wars, but I can understand how some urgent situations require action.

How do you feel about willfully misleading congress to get us into a war? heh heh . . .

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