Nationwide Ammunition Shortage Hits U.S.
If you, like thousands of other Americans, have Googled to find out why we are in the middle of a nationwide ammunition shortage, you would have stumbled across this 2007 blog entry.
In it, I corrected a poorly researched Associated Press story by Estes Thompson that claimed the military’s consumption of ammunition was responsible for police ammunition shortages here in the United States. Few things could have been further from the truth, but it seems rather apparent, in retrospect, that the goal of that AP article wasn’t to find the truth as much as it was to (falsely) lay blame for the police ammunition shortages at the feet of George W. Bush.
The real fact of the matter is that the military got the bulk of its small arms (pistol, rifle, machine gun) ammunition from one contracted ammunition plant, and that plant wasn’t even running near capacity. The military’s consumption clearly wasn’t to blame, and anecdotal evidence and statements from ammunition manufacturers strongly suggested that police departments themselves caused the 2007 ammunition shortage by purchasing far more ammunition than they had in the past.
But what is causing our current ammunition shortages here in 2009?
Much of the demand comes from continued high law enforcement demand, the same demand that led to shortages two years ago. Police agencies around the nation have become more militarized in recent years and two trends within this militarization have led to greater police ammunition demand.
An increase in the size and number of paramilitary police units
Once upon a time, highly trained, heavily armed police units with alphabet-soup acronyms such as SWAT, SRT, SRU, or ERT were generally found as part of large, metropolitan police departments. Today, law enforcement agencies of every size — including some university police forces — have SWAT-type units armed with some combination of submachine guns, assault rifles, and sniper rifles to add to the traditional compliment of pistols and shotguns. To become proficient to the level expected of these units, each officer must fire thousands of rounds in training every year.
An increase in the use of “patrol carbines” in law enforcement
Some agencies prefer to call them “patrol carbines”; others refer to them as “tactical rifles.” But whatever you call them, rifles based upon the AR-15 are becoming increasingly common as a weapon deployed to police officers outside of SWAT units, for some very logical reasons. AR-type rifles extend the range at which patrol officers can engage armed criminals, and because rifles have more practical accuracy than pistols, they can potentially reduce the number of shots fired to neutralize a suspect. Paired with the right kind of ammunition, the .223 Remington/5.56mm caliber rifle also has surprisingly less over-penetration, theoretically reducing threats to civilians who might be downrange. Each of these weapons will also require officers carrying them to fire hundreds of rounds in training each year, and in a city that rotates rifles from one shift to another among their patrol units, this can necessitate tens of thousands of rounds of training ammunition.
*innocent look*
Huh?
*darts eyes*
Fully loaded Army of ONE ‘son Of a gun’.
“Stock up while you can”.
Due diligence. I’m still waitin’ on buying some hot itmes from my precious Rachel over here.
Annie gitchyergun!
You left out the very real possibility that some people are dead-serious about preparing for a coming revolution. I’m not kidding. It’s our patriotic duty.
If I weren’t mostly blind and totally decrepit, I would be doing the same. I’m sure there are many who think like me. My trigger would be the Fairness Doctrine, if I were physically able. For others, it might be some gun-control law. Who knows?
Yes indeed there is a shortage, prices are indeed going up and in a few hours I will be at the local gun show TRYING to by more. Looking for .223 and .357 at the moment, thank you.
My”Annie” got her gun, needs more ammo thank you.
Also, perhaps, is rumored hoo-ha on a nationwide requirement for million dollar insurance policies on firearms. Hence, the rush to stock up before Obama’s soon-to-come “Civilian Defense Force” starts their door-to-door weapons recovery initiative. Long live gun control to mean “hit what you aim at”
Anyone who thinks things aren’t serious,are fools.
I’ve long held that there should only be one kind of “assault weapon ban”. Namely, that police departments should be prohibited from possessing or using any sort of weapon prohibited to law-abiding citizens in their jurisdiction. The logic of anti-gun laws is that they disarm criminals along with the people who actually abide by the law. Therefore, logically, if the laws are effective in disarming the criminals, the police have no need to be armed like the Army Rangers or Marine Force Recon.
Of course, if in spite of such laws, the police really do need all that high-tech hardware to deal with armed criminals, it tends to show that the laws aren’t accomplishing their ostensible purpose, doesn’t it? Which means that either (A) the people advocating such laws are either misinformed, mistaken, or just incredibly stupid, or (B) the actual objective of the laws is to disarm only the law-abiding citizens due to their leaders’ paranoia and power-lust. While retaining the armed criminals as a “threat force” to justify still more Draconian measures. Look at Washington,D.C. for an example of how effective this gambit has been for the last three decades.
BTW, I used to be in law enforcement myself, many a moon ago, in a rural area. My “patrol rifle” was a Winchester M1894 lever-action in .30-30 WCF. Don’t tell the SWAT boys, but it’s ballistically superior to, and generally more accurate than, either the .223 or the 7.62 x 39 out to the maximum effective range of any of the three, which is about 250-300 yards. For in-town use, most of the local police departments in the area used .30 cal. M1 carbines, as they had enough power for effective use at ranges under 150 yards (outranging the trendy 9mm SMGs of today) without the overpenetration of more “modern” arms, like the AR-15s.
I find the recent trend toward the new FN P-90 and Five-Seven weapons in 5.7 x 33mm amusing; if you look at a ballistics chart, this “hot” round in its expensive platforms is only about 10-15% better in terms of actual energy (foot-pounds) than the old but still excellent .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire- a small-game round that is much cheaper in terms of guns and ammunition both. That is, if you think a round with the correct muzzle energy for hunting woodchuck is appropriate for use in a possible hostage situation. I have my doubts about that.
clear ether
eon
I read recently that democrats were buying up all the ammo so republicans would be powerless even with all their weapons. Not sure if this is true. Anyway, not much ammo available in nw florida, at least for my assault rifle.
Delia, Rachel, and RobertG’s “Annie”, see you at the range.
Whether “war” has been declared on Achievement, the “haves”, or plumbers named Joe, there seems to be an imbalance between those who earn and those who want. Those of us who have worked hard for everything we have are looking around and not seeing anyone standing up for our interests, much less protecting them.
“Skyrocketing demand has been emptying the shelves of America’s gun stores. Here’s why.”
Paranoid people. Fools. UFO believers. Criminals. Chicken Little.
I don’t think people are thinking overthrow of the government. I think the prevailing sentiment is anarchy, which coincidentally fits right in with law enforcement buying and training sprees.
Bubbling right below the surface, I think there’s an unspoken sense of alarm that there’s a great deal of social unrest, political outrage, economic turmoil, force-fed liberal social spending, a growing sense of cynicism about the effectiveness of our legal system, and the very likely prospect of a major terrorist attack. All managed by an out of control Congress and a dangerously ideological new president while the rest of the world’s economies circle the drain. All things considered, the future is not looking so bright.
In that light, stocking up on guns and ammunition sounds like a common sense act of prudence. It’s not just for right-wing, knuckle-dragging, Bible-thumping hate-filled conservatives any more.
Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It’s insurance, and surprisingly cheap insurance at that.
Yes, I can see where there might be some increase in demand amongst law enforcement agencies and possibly the military but there’s an across the board shortage of ammunition of every caliber imaginable. For example find a few thousand rounds of either .41 or .44 magnum in a self-defense load or for that matter .22′s or .25 caliber, none of which are common loads for police or military. Then move along to long-gun ammo and its diverse calibers & loads.
My explanation: If your new Admin looks like a skunk, smells like a skunk & sprays like a skunk – stock-up on ammo. And that’s exactly what everyone has done.
VIVO: Are you borderline insane? 56% of the American people just elected the most anti-gun president of all time. Forget Obama’s BS rhetoric, if he could snap his fingers and make all guns disappear from the homes of private citizens, he would. His elistist Attorney General is just as bad. Yesterdays news confirms that Obama and his cronies are going to try to re-enact the assault weapons ban, which not only banned a number of hunting rifles, but will allow Eric Holder, that champion of statism, to add weapons to the list at his whim. Here in California, the Democratically controlled State legislature wants to impose prohibative taxes and regulations on the purchase of ammuntion; not to “raise revenue for schools”, as is always the claim, but to make it more difficult for law abiding guns owners to utilize their guns. I take personal offense when people refer to me as “paranoid” or a “fool”. I’m ready to protect my family, my neighbor, and my country should the time come (hopefully never). What will you do when the police break down your door to arrest you for some crime you did not commit? How will you respond when some “do-good” politicians try to take 85% of your income to give to the “less fortunate”? How will you respond when some nut-job enters your home in the evening to perpetrate violence? Fool…..I’m going over to Yellow Mart today to buy some .357 rounds before the government taxes it out of existence.
Here’s something I recently read that says it all about the current administration:
“Deliver us from privileged leaders of grand aspirations whose studied accents, staged gesticulations, or great wealth do not necessarily make them fit to tell anyone how to do anything. They succeed only in fostering more crime, losing more lives, and deluding more fools.”
Amen……
It couldn’t be more simple. Buy the ammo while you still can.
You people are pawns. Where are you gonna put all that ammo? Your garage is already full of duct tape and plastic sheeting. Did your dad build a bomb shelter when you were a kid? Some cement block mold incubator that you all sat in for five minutes eating crackers and trying to tune in Civil Defense Radio on the transistor? Think that would have helped? Did you duck and cover in grade school?
You’re being played. Given the amount of time you spend whining about the economy, I’d think there would be more critical needs to address than stocking up on .38+Ps.
They got your mind. Now they got your money. Suckers.
as if…time will tell who the pawns are.
stock up. be prepared. Reload if your have to. ammo to consider: 223, 308, 40 cal pistol, 357 mag, double o buck and 22 cal.
I think people are stocking up because they honestly believe massive civil unrest is just around the corner. All of the insane spending bills that our “fearless leader” has either gotten passed through Congress or is attempting to get through Congress will certainly bankrupt this nation. We are headed for either massive deflation or enormous inflation, like Germany experienced right after World War I when you needed a box full of cash to buy a loaf of bread. Once this civil unrest kicks in, it is going to make the anger experienced during the Carter Administration look like child’s play. As in all cases of civil unrest (such as right after Hurricane Katrina), there will be roaving bands of criminals looting and breaking into shops and homes. You don’t have to take my word for it, just ask anyone in New Orleans just how “effective” the police are once all social order has vanished. So if economic times collapse as badly as I think they will, there will be a massive increase in crime and looting. Americans will not stand for this and, being heavily armed, will be ready for it if and when it happens. I really believe the morons in Washington are so disconnected from the rest of America that they don’t really understand the forces they are going to be unleashing if they continue bankrupting the country the way they are doing. This will all happen within the next two years or so, when the bills for all this massive government spending will come due. I also believe that the naiive liberal spendaholics in the Obama administration will have nobody to blame but themselves when all of this does happen.
#6 Eon: What do you think of the new 6.8 x 43 SP? Looks like a very compact round that is
within a hair of duplicating 270 Winchester Ballistics.
Yeah. It’s a conspiracy. Big Ammo is playing everyone like fiddles. Nationalize Big Ammo!
AS IF: Once again, we hear from a retard. “Critical needs”? Yeah, guys like me ignore everything else but stocking up weapons and ammo. Like I don’t attend to the other “critical needs” in my life. There lies the problem with you ignorants, you think everyone who is into hunting and the shooting sports are hicks and religious fanatics. I’VE HAD PEOPLE BREAK INTO MY HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. I called 911, but the cops didn’t respond for 25 minutes! After the police arrived and took over from me – I held the intruders at gunpoint – one was found to have a gun on him. 2:00 a.m., broke into my house where my wife and infant son were asleep, and one of them had a gun. What would you have done? Cowered and begged that they not rape your wife? Screw the duck-tap and the transitor analogy friend. You can sit back and let others tell you what you can and cannot have in your possession. As for me, I’m a free citizen ready to step up to protect my liberty. Now go have a latte and read the LA Times.
To stay current on my firearms I need to shoot regularly, which means I need a steady supply of ammo. I possess firearms for self-defense, hunting and recreational shooting; staying current with my guns ensures that I can do all of those things safetly and responsibly. The current ammo bubble will subside, but a more pressing threat to acquiring ammo comes from anti-gun politicians and potential backdoor legislation designed to shutdown the availability of ammo and render the issue of gun ownership moot. I’m stocking up on ammo.
Vivo and as if, your responses to this issue leave a great deal to be desired. Your condescension is unwarranted as you’ve given us only strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks, which suggests that you are either arguing from emotion or you lack the ability to formulate a reasoned response–neither of those positions supports the air of moral superiority you’ve adopted.
vivo,
“Paranoid people. Fools. UFO believers. Criminals. Chicken Little.”
~
Bullets don’t go bad, Lad. Take that ‘un to heart. You might as well laugh at me for stocking up on canned food that can help me survive through a natural disaster. Of course, you’d be one of the SOL cry babies knocking at my door for a crumb when all is said and done eh?
Dear as if:
Pawns in the game of chess are always sacrificed on the board, much like the general public at large. Learn a little history about the world of where weapons and such were outlawed. Of course, you will find mass exterminations, slavery and misery, but sure you already know that.
Maybe the day won’t come to violence, maybe it will.
As anyone who actually reads and sees the world today, those you are scoffing at may very well be the ones to save your butt if things do go bad..or again, maybe they won’t if they know you.
Remember, if the world turns, your mindset of what you will need to do to survive and take things back must become primary; then one must follow through.
Guns and ammo are the other gold and silver. Call it an investment, a hedge against inflation. It just looks like a weapon that would stop predators from taking your gold and silver.
“You left out the very real possibility that some people are dead-serious about preparing for a coming revolution. I’m not kidding. It’s our patriotic duty.”
This. Nearly every one of my friends has been grabbing whatever they can get their hands on for months, because of this.
The current buying spree is simply an amplification of the buying spree that started September 14th, 2004, when people breathed a sigh of relief and said never again.
Another reason to stock up on ammo is it’s better than money for rate of exchange, if all hell breaks loose. If the dollar collapses, trade for essentials with shells.
Here’s a clue: participation is optional.
If you’re squeamish, the police will protect you. Obama will protect you. That “Gun Free Home” sign in your front yard will protect you. Your burglar alarm will protect you. If not, I’m sure that condescending light of intellectual superiority you project on everybody who you think is inferior to you will protect you and your families.
Personally, I support the idea of obvious soft targets. I just don’t plan to be one.
I live in Montana, probably the gun capital of the world. I don’t hunt anymore, but I still have 8 weapons or so. Some of the guys I work with are way more into this than I am. I know several fellows who have multiple semi-auto carbines (AR’s), and everybody has at least several pistols. One of our guys just got a .50 caliber sniper rifle that he enjoys shooting with his friends. Another guy has AR’s for each member of his family, including children, and he recently ordered over 10,000 .223 bullets to reload with. If the Obama administration decides to do some sort of gun grab, they would be wise to start somewhere softer than Montana.
as if: You’re being naive. Having lived through the Rodney King riots in LA, I can tell you the saying “at any time, anarchy is only three days away” is true.
vivo…Who thought the best police force in the country would fold, leaving civilians to fend for themselves? No one even answered 911 for several days until the governor finally sent in the National Guard. The grocery stores that weren’t looted had NOTHING on the shelves. If you don’t want to own a gun, no one is going to make you have one. All the other law abiding, tax paying citizens just want to mind their own business — why do you insist on diminishing others rights? People do have a right to protect themselves and for many, a gun is an equalizer of force.
As for being prepared, I’m expecting dozens of unprepared, families just like yours who are laughing at me now to show up at my doorstep during the next emergency, after the banks close and the neighborhood grocery is stripped clean. It happens. I’ve lived through it in the second largest city in the USA and the trigger was a trial verdict, not a global economic wipe out.
28. eburchelli . . . writes . . . Another reason to stock up on ammo is it’s better than money for rate of exchange, if all hell breaks loose. If the dollar collapses, trade for essentials with shells.
The eternal optimism of the conservatives.
It seems pretty obvious to me that if local law enforcement thinks it is necessary to “stock up” on military-type weapons, the public should give it serious consideration as well.
Private weapons training camps are increasing such as Front-sight in Nevada. The public is not only attending for 2 and 4 day training exercises, but it is also attended by current law enforcement personnel who wish even better training than they are currently receiving.
Joining the NRA and putting their stickers in the front windows of your home will help deter would-be home invasions even if you don’t want guns in the house. When they see my Front-sight sticker in the window, they also know I have had weapons training in addition to be armed. Burglars think their lives are worth more than what they can get by breaking and entering.
Intellectually, I find it amusing that people of the Left and Center are now doing the same that people of the Right and Center were doing before. The signs are there. “Pshaw. They wouldn’t really do such a thing.”
We were warned about liberals and their governmental policies. We were warned about the subversion of our education system. We were warned about the Libs actually being camouflaged Socialists. We were warned about Obama’s goals. Even as he does it, most people still can’t see it. Now, we are warned about the coming armed revolution, but the response is, “Pshaw.”
Those in power can see it, so they’re moving to head it off with ammo control, but the blind electorate can’t see it coming. “They wouldn’t really do such a thing, would they?”
I’m armed. I’ve got this place sealed up like Fort Knox. Even have the monitored alarm system (which was responded to on a false alarm but it did take 10 minutes). Got the place stocked up for nuclear winter (which is a natural result of growing up poor). But, I’m a middle aged woman of limited physical strength. Alone. And very worried. I have no children or spouse. Siblings are all at least 400 miles away and the more reliable ones are 800 and 2000 miles away. Divide and conquer is one side effect of our current society. The border with Mexico is less than 200 miles away.
The deflation is already occurring. The housing prices and stock market situation are reminiscent of the 1930s now. Upside down mortgages mean we’re paying more for our property than it’s actually worth (at the moment). Get ready for massive INflation in the next couple of years.
This is really going to be unpleasant.
this “hot” round in its expensive platforms is only about 10-15% better in terms of actual energy (foot-pounds) than the old but still excellent .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire-
The .223 round is intended for weapons that are fired on full auto. The M 14 rifle was discontinued because you cannot control it on full auto. The 30-06 round has too much recoil. Also, the AR 15 was adopted when the military changed from long range target accuracy as a standard to short range pop-up target shooting. It’s not intended for long range. It’s just a hot .22 round.
I remember a very similar atmosphere in the Carter presidency and for the same reasons. Reagan ended it but I wonder if another Reagan will appear.
I buy from a customer reloader in Prineville Oregon. It’s a 2 man operation and I have always purchased straight off the shelf. I just placed an order for 1000 .223 and 1000 9mm and was told they were 6-8 weeks behind. I was also told they had doubled their staff. I guess the Obama stimulus is working.
VIVO
I happen to be lucky enough to live far out in the country, therefore crime is low but it does occasionally strike, as it did when my nearest neighbor who lives about half a mile away was robbed. One day when I was traveling home from Ft. Lewis (yes, I’m a Soldier) the sheriff’s deputy flagged me down to ask me if I had heard of any building sites in the area that had been robbed (primarily for copper.) I told him that I hadn’t but as we were talking he kindly informed me that since we are so far out in the country and local law enforcement is (perennially) understaffed (where do my tax dollars go?) that it would take over an hour at best for a 911 emergency response. He then went on to illuminate me on the fact that for all intents and purposes, I’m on my own. That is the primary reason why I keep firearms, as it is ultimately my responsibility to protect my family and property, and that I have no desire to be a victim. If you don’t want to take the responsibility to defend yourself then that’s your prerogative, but stay the hell out of my business and quit trampling on my right to self-defense. I seriously doubt you’d come running to my aid (or anyone else’s, for that matter) if, say, some gangbangers started roughing me up, what would you do anyway, call 911 and wait for an hour? Why don’t you do everyone a service and put those “GUN FREE ZONE” signs around your home, so that the criminals know who to safely rob.
As Mr. T so succinctly put it; “FOOL!”
First Sergeant V
eon,
1) I have never seen a thirty-thirty that would approach the accuracy of a good AR.
2) Any .30 carbine will easily outpenetrate any expanding .223 round.
Pretty low grade of Leftist trolls in here today. The bulk of them must be out slamming the “Tea Party” protests in other fora.
bobdog has the best and final answer to them in the thread so far:
Personally, I support the idea of obvious soft targets. I just don’t plan to be one.
Hey Vivo. Did you even read the article?
Much of the shortage is due to the massive increase in purchases by police agencies.
So who is being paranoid?
Why, in this New Age of Hope and Change, Peace and Love is every police agency in America spending a fortune on military machine guns, sniper rifles and ammunition?
Obama stimulus. Heh.
The dems are already preparing the renew the “assault weapons ban.” Previously they also banned handguns with magazines of more than ten rounds.
Given their total riot of irresponsible legislating so far, and Obama’s willingness to do whatever suits him, whenever, we can expect lots of assaults on our freedoms (except the freedom to mooch).
My mistake was not buying when it became clear that Obama and the dems were going to win. Now the prices are out of sight and the supply is much less. Our local gun club (which is also a huge gun store) has very few pistols on display, and the used shelves are almost empty. The semi-auto rifles, of which dozens of kinds were on display, have mostly disappeared – even those on display were sold.
Mike K, I think that reference was not to the .223, but to the “five-seven.” Not the same round, or the same application.
I think your missing a major point… MEXICO. At freaking long last it looks like mexico’s low scale civil war(ie similar to what happened in iraq) is starting to go hot. Most educated ppl know that the likely hood of massive “refugees” which will include and host and drug dealer, terrorists, racists, and general social parasites will flood across the border with obama welcoming them with open arms and trillions of dollars in aid… well you can quickly see how that will go down hill.
Another is the simple fact everyone deep down feels it… massive economic problems normally equals massive warfare across the world. I think ppl are well aware that the border will mexico will be a full fledged war zone but that could quickly spend to the whole of the US as obama seeks to gain control.
Up in Canada we have more person to gun ratios than you folks. yet at 30 mil people we only get around 650 murders a year. Alot with knives to boot, and we dont lock our doors (well maybe in the cities)
**News flash** you worry about the Mexicans and Cubans or whoever else, just don’t come running up here OK? We like the peaceful nature of life up here, and we just shoot animals that are 4 legged. Sorry bad times for ya’ll but when you do go back to cival war, keep it down there OK?
Money value is probably going to shrink (inflation).
Guns and ammo won’t.
I only stocked up because I like shooting.
If there’s anything non-perishable that you know you’ll need or just want in the future, it would be foolish not to buy now, before major inflation hits.
“You’re being naive. Having lived through the Rodney King riots in LA, I can tell you the saying “at any time, anarchy is only three days away” is true.
Actually it was Trotsky and he said:
“Any society is only three square meals away from a revolution.”
“Hence, the rush to stock up before Obama’s soon-to-come “Civilian Defense Force” starts their door-to-door weapons recovery initiative.”
I hope they’re prepared for several million firearms owners to “go Sunni on their ass.”
About “leave it to the police” … I live 3 hours from the Mexican border. A while ago, I pulled into my garage and started the door down. As it neared the floor, someone stuck his foot inside it and started it up again. I got out of the car to see why the door was going up, and found myself staring at a gun.
Maybe the only English the guy knew was “Give me your wallet.” He said it twice. I did. By the way, I saw 6 feet. He had two young “trainees” behind him, though I never saw their faces, and he didn’t wear a mask. He wasn’t concerned with the possibility of being caught.
I was on my cell phone to 911 while they were still visible running away with my wallet. The police arrived 21 minutes later. (Cell phone logs are useful for documentation!) Over the next months, I believe I located the gang that cased my house in advance of the robbery, and even got pictures of their vehicles with license plates. I wrote it all up in a multi-page manuscript. The police could not have been less interested. I could not even get the local Batallian Commander to keep an appointment with me, even after complaining in person to the City Council.
The next guy who tries something like that will not find me as easy a target.
swassociates,
“I guess the Obama stimulus is working.”
Yeah buddy. One of our local firearms dealers has only half-jokingly posted a large picture of “President Hope ‘n’ Change” with the following caption underneath:
GUN SALESMAN OF THE YEAR!
Here is the Administration’s position on gun issues, taken directly from whitehouse.gov, after some searching: # Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.
I started stocking up on cases, powder, and primers a couple of years ago for my own custom loads. I also buy regularly from Rimrock Ammunition in Prineville Oregon for plinking ammo. Anyone that doesn’t think our 2nd Amendment rights are under attack is a moron.
As soon as Obama was nominated I began to stock up on ammo. After reading this article I went back and checked the current prices for what I purchased. They are all 15% to 25% higher. This translates to an annual rate of return on investment of 30% or more. How have your investments done in that time? At least BO is good for something!
Remember when the riots were going on in Hollywood? All the anti gun owning liberals were calling Charlton Heston wanting him to give them one of his guns?!?! Yea, he told them NO.
Oh by the way the Chinese part of town was not trashed. They had guns and were not afraid to use them.
Girly Kirly, you hang in there. I live in a very liberal state and my neighbors all had the O-sunrise sign in their yards this fall. But everytime we have a power outage or some other disruption, they always make sure I am home, they know I will protect them and their property.
=====
http://tinyurl.com/6ktbo9
Known Unknowns: Unconventional “Strategic Shocks” in Defense Strategy
Development,
Authored by Mr. Nathan P. Freier.
Senior Fellow, International Security Program
CSIS
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http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.645:
HR 645 IH 111th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 645 To direct the Secretary of
Homeland Security to establish national emergency centers on military
installations.
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http://tinyurl.com/3sendx
Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1
3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping people at
home may become a permanent part of the active Army
By Gina Cavallaro – Staff writer
Sep 30, 2008
Army Times
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http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476
Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America.
by Radley Balko
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http://tinyurl.com/djann4
Urban Warfare Drills Linked To Coming Economic Rage
Prison Planet.com
Monday, February 23, 2009
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http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/published/pentagonsnewmap.htm
The Pentagon’s New Map
Thomas P.M. Barnett, U.S. Naval War College
Mike_K…
The M-14 has had a new lease on life after 7 years in Afghanistan & Iraq. The design is not obsolete and a lot of solders prefer it for it’s long reach and Mack truck hitting power. I have the M1A and it’s awesome. I have also shot the M14 in full auto and believe me, it’s not that tough…
Phew.
Where to begin? Law abiding citizens will abide by the law regardless of how many firearms they own. I happen to be a blacksmith. I own over 50 different kinds of hammers. What is to stop me from bringing a 2 pound cross-pein hammer to the shopping mall and smashing in a dozen or so skulls at the food court before I am subdued?
This: I am a moral and law abiding citizen.
How many folks could you stab in the kidney with a number 2 pencil before Kmart security wrestled you to the ground? Quite a few I would suppose. Let’s ban pencils!
A gun is a tool, just like a pencil or a hammer. Good people know when to use a tool, and when not to.
Swimming pools kill a substantially larger number of children every year than do guns. Should we legislate the Swimming Pool Ban?
Intellects like Vivo and As If don’t comprehend, nor will they likely ever, the concept of personal responsibility. I don’t even need to get to the 2nd Amendment to find personal defense in the sacred scrolls — how about this: “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
Let’s look at the first word of that brilliant statement. “Life.”
What this means to me is that when I am working in my shop in the bad part of town at 9:30 pm, and three Eminem wanabees come in and start asking me if I work all alone all the time, and why I have so much copper lying around, and look hungrily at all of the expensive equipment in the shop, I take a measure of comfort at the fact that I have nestled under my shirt the greatest creation of Mr. John Moses Browning. The 1911. And when I told them that I was very busy and could they come back later, while bending over to pick up a piece of steel and inadvertently exposing the butt of said 1911, I am confident that a crime may have been prevented.
So, with all due respect Messrs Vivo and As If, kindly go make the beast with two backs and take your Kumbaya and shove up your collective itchy eyes.
Too harsh? UnChristian of me? Tragic. I have lost patience with you and your ilk. It is long overdue for your lot to form your own country and cease wasting my time and sucking my air.
AMF,
Gordon
I fully support the 2nd amendment and the right of an American to keep and bear arms. I do not own a gun of any sort – at this time. However, after the stimulus and proposed budget I am reconsidering. ORP (Obama, Reid, Pelosi) are trying to create the largest, most powerful government in the history of the world. Consider measuring our government in terms of the amount of economic and legislative control it has over an average citizen. If the government we had in 1950 scores a 0 (just as a baseline, not that it had no control), and post-Reagan the metric was about 0.5 going to 0.6 under Clinton and 0.7 under Bush, then Obama’s proposed actions will have us at about 1.5. 1.0 is point of inflection where we would have a difficult time calling ourselves a free people. These are very much non-scientific numbers based on factors such as tax burden per citizen (averaged out), regulatory cost per citizen, and relative decrease in freedom and liberty. Arbitrary numbers certainly, but they reflect a very, very real and growing problem.
Glad I bought my Smith & Wesson pistol back in the Fall of of 2007. I had a feeling back then that the Jackasses were going to win in ’08. I live in New Hampshire, which is a looooong way from the Mexican border and crime is pretty low in the rural area where I live. But the suburbanization of the area is beginning, as more of homo urbanus Marxistimus is creeping up here. It’s already a blue state.
I see the changes in this country as reflective of how urban people are becoming more like European socialists, while America’s rural people are more inclined to hang on to our traditional culture and values. This is the divide, folks. We Americans who prefer the rural life and its values are in the minority now. Whether you live in rural Arizona or rural New Hampshire, you face urban socialist elites who fear your independence and refusal to succumb to post-modernism. We are the ones who are the true representatives of what America was. And maybe can be again some day. I’m afraid that homo urbanus won’t come over to our side unless and until what they’ve currently embraced has been discredited and caused them pain.
Reality has to bite you in the ass. Hard.
Those of us that are prepared are just being smart. To all you who wrote that we are overreacting, just keep in mind what people do to prepare for a hurricane. Our shelves are always stocked, full tank of gas, 2 weeks worth of water, etc. We are just being safe. As to you… you are one of those during Katrina sitting on the roof WAITING to be rescued… you are the pitiful ones.
Business opportunity!
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/8/pkg_id/8
400 rounds an hour…WHAT ammo shortage?
Stock up my friends,your gonna need it. To those who are afraid of guns,you won’t need it anyway,so just keep quiet.
fred,
I’ve witnessed the political change in NH from a distance. At one time I deeply aspired to have “Live Free or Die” license plates on my vehicle. No more. The pinkos came across from MA in the 80s and it’s been downhill since.
There’s a rude awakening coming for a bunch of folks that have been lulled into trusting the cradle of government security.
Good luck to us all and may the Republic return
Quick update on availability. On 2/27/2008 in Northern VA, .40 S&W JHP and .357 in JHP were plentiful (110 & 125 grain for the latter). 9mm, .380, and .38 Spl (in JHP or whatever) were nowhere to be found. 5.56 and .223 in FMJ and JHP were available in several brands, to include value packs. Ditto for SC last weekend. On-line .380 is rarely available, .38 Spl JHP is hard to find, but .38 Spl wadcutters and roundtips are widely available.
I conclude that folks are buying a lot of personal protection ammo for concealed carry handguns as anybody looking for a Ruger LCP can tell you. Handgun selection is poor in .38 Spl, but at least are still available if you’re in a hurry and not too picky.
That should have been this year, yesterday — 2/27/2009 — and it was at Wal-Mart, my ATF store…
I’m a Jew with a 22. I think that it all I basically need for urban warfare. I lived through the LA riots and watched all the fools thinking that the police will protect them. They didn’t. 58 people died because of the riot, most were innocent, in the wrong place at the wrong time.
For my money I’ll take my 22. In the city it has all the range I require. It won’t over penetrate a building. It has a good rate of fire, and good accuracy. I don’t know of anybody who would be fool enough to walk into the flight path of a 22. Seriously, don’t write off the basic 22.
One excellent survival food to always keep in stock no matter what is raw honey. Honey pretty much lasts forever, is a great energy food and can even heal wounds. Virgin coconut oil is another great ‘healthy’ fat to keep on hand that has a VERY stable, long shelf-life and doesn’t go rancid for years. Canned foods are great too as long as you rotate them and keep replenishing your supply. Making your own jerky meats is another great food source. Dehydrating your fruit is great too.
There are some survival supply food places online but that stuff is super spendy compared to just keeping well stocked.
OTC medicine [aspirin, tylenol, band-aids etc.] is good to keep stocked up too.
I’m sure most of you know all of the above but I figured I’d throw that out there just the same. I’ve been doing this kind of thing ever since we had some earthquakes in the late 90′s and it’s not a bad habit to get into.
So a S&W 39 should do me fine for close in (with a nice stash of Fed Premium 135 HydraShock JHP)? What about longer reach? I hear a variety of calibers and M-14 AR-15s mentioned; which makes the most sense. Ammo?
BTW, I doubt anyone really wants “anarchy”; look up the definition. I think “sanity” should be a more desired goal for our government. That’s something we haven’t seen the last few weeks, months, years…. Hey, only 3yrs and 10 months of this crap if we last that long.
If you guys need AMMO, try Sportsman’s Guide. I have used them for years and had few complaints. Looks like they have plenty of .223 in an unbelievable variety. Hope the link works:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/browseammo.aspx?c=96&s=907
Check them out.
Liberals will never tell you that their objections to guns, and people owning guns, is precisely because they know that sooner or later, when people get a good look at what liberals are all about, they realize that they will need force to protect themselves from those liberals and what the liberals believe and intend to do to everyone. Every totalitarian sh*thole had leadership that disarmed the people, for their own safety of course, and then abused & murdered those people. From the USSR to Nazi Germany, all the way up to today’s banana republics in Asia, South America, Africa, and even Europe, disarming the populous has been a way for the leftist elites to control the masses.
Our founding fathers where geniuses when they added the 2nd Amendment to our founding documents. They understood that without the power to protect one’s freedoms and rights, one had neither freedom nor rights. Liberals understand this very well. That’s why they need the populace disarmed. You can’t force your collectivist misery on those that can fight back.
I found the same thing with .380s. No where to be found. Lots of 9mm ammo still around,though. I’ve started stocking up on shotgun shells recently. That’s still a good all around gun for home protection.
quasar
Where did you come up with that paranoid scenario, from a black helo alert site? Yeah the AP is tying to blame Bush for the ammo shortage, that sound like right wing BS and BDS rolled into one.
Libertyship46:
If all those police agencies are stocking up and training with their weapons like Bob said, would that mitigate your paranoid prognostications? Time to get yourself mothballed like your moniker.
This is all part of Obama’s stimulus plan in action. If I were an ammunition or firearms manufacturer I’d be hiring extra shifts to fill the demand.
The only people running out and buying guns are white racists who hate Obama because he is black. Karl Rove has them all in a frenzy thinking that the darky President will steal all of their guns so that only the “boyz in da hood” will have guns and will terrorize whitey to gain revenge for 250 years of slavery, Jim Crow and oppressions, which saw a dramatic revival under Bush and Cheney, who hated blacks and kept them down at every chance. Whites have always used blacks as the boogie man and Obama, since he is black, is perfect to scare up gun sales and make people think that Obama will take away your guns and therefore you must vote the racist cracker rednick whitey Republicans or else you and Jud won’t be able to go duck hunting with your Uzi. Obama has never voted for gun control, has never endorsed it, and has always supported the 2nd Amendment. You racists should stop trying to distort his record.
Vinny F,
Here you go:
http://thestateofamerica.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/barak-obama-and-the-second-amendment/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/06/AR2008040601652.html
http://www.reason.com/news/show/125180.html
-And, if you have a really short attention span then here’s a youtube vid that sums it up nicely:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEg1aq6Emo
BTW, you’re the racist. We are the HUMAN race, buddy. If you want to talk ethnicity and skin color there are a lot of other people from different regions of our world in this melting pot besides ‘black’ people. Black people self-segregate now. Black rappers use the word ‘n’ word and have white ‘wiggers’ using the ‘n’ word now. Somebody please stamp “STUPID” on the lot of ya. I’ve had enough of your simpering drivel race-baiting bull caca.
Vinny F, That’s funny. You see, you are the racist. I’m a black, heavily armed female. I’m hoping to fend off losers like yourself. Please, please, please do NOT purchase a gun! You will be just fine.
Vinny, I am no racist. I hate everyone equally. I never considered buying a gun until I was exposed to people like you and your thinking. Now, I know I need one. Going to gun school and preparing myself.
Vinny F
Believe me this has nothing to do with Obama being black. Bush had two Sec. of State who were black. Being black really doesn’t matter. What matters is the politics. There are plenty of whites I dislike for their politics: Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Powers etc. Believe me they’ll take away your guns at the drop of a hat. And, don’t think that they’re not plotting. Watch and see the new legislations that will come up ie. type of bullet restrictions, magazine capacity, caliber restrictions. They’ll all have some rational behind each restriction. I talked to an antigun lobbyist and he explained it to me. Its called salami slicing. You cut slices of it until its all gone. You don’t try to take the whole salami at one time.
Ok, I’ll bite. Is Vinney for real?
About the .380 ACP shortage: perhaps you haven’t heard, but the .380 ACP was recently declared a destructive device by the BATFE and it is now a controlled (and taxed as such) under the 1936 National Firearms Act. The massive destructive power of the .380 ACP, and incredible electro-magnetic pulse that accompanies its firing, are just too destructive to be allowed in civilian hands. Just ask Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) and he will tell you that in some countries, the .380 ACP is the first choice for bringing down civilian airliners. It is only a matter of time until it is used in that way here. The .380 ACP must be banned completely – for the sake of the Mexican children. Trust me folks, Chuck Norris is scared of the .380 ACP.
Whatever the reason, the gun shows here in my town are doing a great business. Guns and ammo selling like crazy.
The most important reason to own arms is the one that is exercised the least often.
The least important reason for gun ownership is the one that is exercised the most often.
Do you know which is which? Your liberty depends on it.
Here in California we’ve had a run on what ammo and guns we can get for a while. Even though we still live under the Clinton Gun ban (California basically just passed the exact same thing to make sure we’d still have it when the federal one sunset) there’s still quite a few guns to be had.
Personally I’ve only got three regular guns and some black powder weapons. I’d like more but basically all I can afford is the ammo. So it’ll have to do. If I can find any. :\
Something for all you mouthy tough guys to emulate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/28/paul-schene-king-county-d_n_170786.html
Conservatives + the cops.
Liberals + the girls parents.
Who’s right?
13. James:
“What will you do when the police break down your door to arrest you for some crime you did not commit?”
By shooting them? Are you crazy? Unless you want to die.
86. oopsie,
Huffpo articles are right up there with “STAR” magazine. Your ‘source’ is the fluff of MSM douchebags with little care or inclination for REAL news.
PUHLEASE. Huffpo gives perpetual ‘rim job/salad tossing’ when it comes to anything “LEFTY”.
Grow a brain and get back to me when you’ve found a few brain cells to rub together.
23. Jephnol:
” which suggests that you are either arguing from emotion or you lack the ability to formulate a reasoned response”
Those simple words convey a clear message. Why elaborate?
24. Delia:
“You might as well laugh at me for stocking up on canned food that can help me survive through a natural disaster.”
No, that makes sense. Guns? Depends on your neighborhood and friends you keep.
31. Concerned Citizen:
“All the other law abiding, tax paying citizens just want to mind their own business — why do you insist on diminishing others rights? People do have a right to protect themselves and for many, a gun is an equalizer of force.”
I’m generalizing, but if you are as you say, ignore my message. You know who you are.
38. First Sergeant V:
“He then went on to illuminate me on the fact that for all intents and purposes, I’m on my own.”
I didn’t mean people like you. You have to use common sense. I carried a loaded gun for two weeks when I felt threatened by someone and was ready to shoot.
58. GordonStands:
“What this means to me is that when I am working in my shop in the bad part of town at 9:30 pm, and three Eminem wanabees come in and start asking me if I work all alone all the time,”
You obviously need a weapon. I don’t mean people like you, either. I just mean the mentally unstable and trigger happy paranoic types.
Vivo
‘” which suggests that you are either arguing from emotion or you lack the ability to formulate a reasoned response”
Those simple words convey a clear message. Why elaborate?’
You are an idiot. Just like Vinny F.
I guess I’ll finally get to use my Y2K ammo stash. Everybody thought I was foolish when I bought 14 pallets of .223 (50,000 rds per pallet), but I’m looking pretty smart now, I guess. I’ve also reloaded about 500,000 rds of .45 ACP over the past few years. You’d be amazed at how small a space is required to store nearly 3/4 million rounds of ammunition. I only wish I had bought more .380 ammo as I’ve recently bought some cute little .380s, but, dang, who knew? There’s no .380 ammo available. That kind of sucks.
Sparky
#71 AlexinCT
indeed!
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart
As a retired police officer I have literally taken thousands of pictures of people who relied solely on the police for their protection. More than a few of those folks were dead. Whether you like it or not, you are responsible for your own safety and the safety of everyone under your roof.
The police are very good at documenting crimes and atrocities; for 24 years I did a great job doing that. Look at the latest national crime clearance rates here:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_25.html
It ain’t pretty. Even worse for urban centers. With hard times ahead it will get worse. I am stocking up on food and ammo. Not hoping for tough times – just being responsible to the people that rely on me.
What I have done is basically stuck with the guns I do own, none of which is an assault rifle. Those have always been very pricey. What I do have I can buy ammo for, since they are classified as hunting rifles and a shotgun. I do have my Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm pistol, which I am sure will at some point be banned for civilians. I’m confident I can hide it successfully, along with my other weapons.
I did train with the M16A1 when I was in the Army. I know how to use it and I think I could refresh myself in how to break it down and clean it.
My prayer daily is that we can resolve this deep political crisis in the country by the 2010 and 2012 elections. I think it will be. The Marxists will be turned out because of the piss poor performance they are already in the process of rendering. Even in my days of gloom – and today I’m just not in the most optimistic of moods – I still find a reservoir of faith in the majority of the people that they will come to their senses and realize that they were deceived by that long legged mack daddy of a Red Diaper Baby.
But if the worst ever came to pass and we had civil war, there is not much a 54 year old geezer like me can do. I’m not exactly combat ready, but if called to I would do my part. Besides, in a shooting war there will be assault rifles on the ground I could pick up and use. Again, not likely to happen but in a pinch I could do it. In any event, my hunch is that most of the military would come over to our side. It would have to in order to preserve the nation and keep out foreign forces that would want to come to the aid of the Marxists. In that scenario, the optimal outcome would be a coup in which the members of the government identified as the source of the problem would be arrested and eventually civilian rule would be restored, once the collectivists have been cleaned out of the government and other places of influence in the country.
We live in a dangerous world. We simply cannot allow the Marxists and Muslims to combine forces and destroy our country and Western Civilization. This is a war for everything and the stakes are high. Our enemies know it. We had better wake up and realize it too.
#88 Did you “watch” the article? Something in there you didn’t understand?
Stella #78
Nice to meet you. By pulling the race card out immediately Vinny shows everyone he’s clueless. Does anyone remember Lynn Swann? Steeler receiver, great guy and staunch conservative? Ran for governor of Pennsylvania? To people like Vinny, being a black conservative disqualifies him from being black…Oreo I think they called him. Liberals are the real racists. The 1st gun control laws were enacted to keep guns out of the hands of blacks…
Tarantula (old white guy…)
it seems to me that if a country like the US runs out of ammo, it’s a nature’s way of saying that the inhabitants have gone completely off the rails and have lost touch with reality. That they lost touch with civility we’ve known for a while. Something’s seriously broken in the old US of A. Hope it can still be fixed.
I have forgotten where all my guns are. I have no guns for the government to pursue. But I keep hoping I will find at least one of them when the government gun collector guy shows up on my porch. I would like to do my part, I’m sure.
Vinny F – Stop drinking the koolaid. BHO does not now and has never supported the 2nd amendment. While in the IL Senate he voted against the right of self defense. He has appointed as AG a person who believes that money transferred between hands ensures a Presidential Pardon even after the person has renounced his US Citizenship. BHO and the AG also believe that Mexico, which is governed by a bunch of incompetents who take bribes, has the right to tell us how to run our country. In other words Mexico wants us to weaken our Second Amendment and BHO & associates are all falling in line to bow down to Mexico.
Something’s seriously broken in the old US of A. Hope it can still be fixed.
Yes, but what? What’s broken and when did it break? We can’t fix it til we know what it is. Me, i blame bill clinton.
was the 2nd ammendment writ with the idea folks could procure arms of their current technology at the time, which should carry thru to todays level of technology available to us?
Miller v. US 1939
My suggestion: a Lee reloading kit and lots of new shells that can be reloaded as many times as needed. My old surplus military rifle can’t be used on the local outdoor range: too powerful. I consider that a ringing endorsement, although where to shoot legally is now a greater concern.
Vinny F, how’s mom’s basement working out? Good thing she’s got you to rely on when her welfare checks get inflated to zilch.
I blame FDR (although Hoover opened the door). Many of his programs are still alive, sucking up taxes, wasting money, and serving as the bedrock for yet more expansion. Like FDR with Japanese-Americans, maybe Obama (also -D) will sign an executive order to lock up a handy scapegoat minority then let others help themselves to what the zeks are forced to leave behind.
Good point, Maroto –civilians ought to have now, as then, access to the same technology as the government’s.
#101. Of course, just like the first amendment continues to cover more than newspapers and speaking in person.
Buddy Larsen
You blamed the right man. The problem is that he’s got lots of help now and they’re worse. Obama has slipped in a few real jewels mainly in the NSC. Freeman, who heads it, is an avowed Arabist. Add to that Samantha Powers, another jewel, who is a Islamic apologist. All his picks for every position need to be carefully scrutinized. He’s done so much in such a short time that the next four years really scare me.
To 101. Maroto:
The 2nd Amendment can be viewed as one of 2 “structures”. First and the most traditional is that US citizens should be allowed to own weapons that can be used to wage war.(self defense from “criminals” was not the main purpose of the 2nd amendment) IE your really supposed to be able to own pretty much anything and for the most part if you have enough money you can own pretty much anything(even a nuke factory… as long you don’t take any of the nukes). However now many states have heavily limited this to the point in such states/places as NJ and cities like NY and LA/San fran… the only ppl who are allowed to own guns are either cops or political hacks. What great is the fact that many of the most anti-gun/pro-gun control ppl in the government own and carry lots of guns around with them or have armed bodyguards protecting them. Basically saying its ok for them to have guns because their above the rest of us. Now of course their have been some logical limits place on it… such as the limiting of “area effect” weapons IE anything that explodes. I really have no problem with that because its a reasonable limit for the most part because when you put someone on trial for killing ppl you don’t want them to use the excuse that they “didn’t mean to kill those ppl as well”.
The 2nd main line of thinking is that all citizens should be treated equally… thus basically anything that can be used by the government against the citizens in day to day affairs citizens have the right to own and use themselves. IE If guns are banned/limited/etc then all government personal must obey the same rules. So if guns are banned in a select area the police aren’t allowed to own or use guns in that area either. It would be equal rules for all.
The 2nd amendment main purpose was to keep the government in line and prevent dictatorship. Anyone that knows even the most basic history knows that restricting or removing guns from private citizens hands is one of the last steps before someone plans to turn those citizens into slaves. The saying that “History repeats itself” or “Those who don’t know/understand history are doomed to repeat it” are to very classic saying and most of all talk about “gun control”.
Need we only look at england to see the slow slope of taking guns away of citizens as they are repeatably told “this will be the last ban etc, etc, etc,” of course until the next ban. Not to long ago they tried to pass a law requiring that everyone get a permit to own…. knives of a 9″ blade or more(think it was 9″ but basically it required that any chef need a permit to own his knives/use them). They have managed to banned swords even collector swords in most parts of england. The simple fact is that could very easily happen here in the US and we are on the same slow slide to it happening.
me, too oscar –all we can do is shine the light as much as we can.
The whole “2nd Amendment issue” is already on their ground. Why is it an issue? The language is clear as a bell. the research on the effects is clear too. from Britain, the great county by county study, the stats from every lab area anywhere, all the same, guns protect the innocent.
so this latest hurrah is as clear as a bell, these people want to disarm you because they have plans for you that they know you will oppose –with your life if need be. So, those must be SOME plans.
or maybe they just see unrest over some natural catastrophe, and want to keep any violence down. But –will it? Of course not. So maybe our anti-2nd leaders are just stoopid. not evil –just stoopid. but either way, what good can come out of disarming the law-abiding?
Plenty –but only if you happen to be a criminal. maybe that’s it. reckon?
Oopsie,
I’ll play along. You want to cherry pick? There are bad cops just like there are ‘bad people’ in the world. When will your liberal mind wrap around that fact?
Here’s a ‘cherry picked’ snap-shot of your herd mentality brethren:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6UKRaM5fA
Checks & Balances.
G’day,
Delia
We know what Obama thinks of those of us who cling to our guns and religion. His caustic remark to that wealthy group in San Francisco should be a daily reminder to all of us of who he really is.
Signed,
A fellow bitter American
A guy I work with was fueling up his pickup at a truck stop next to the interstate recently. His elderly mother was in the cab of the truck, and one of his AR’s was in the gunrack. A guy with license plates from back East huffily asked him what he needed a gun like that for. Steve responded: “Oh, it’s my Mom’s”.
I appreciate many comments here and very educational for someone without the kinds of experience presented by some here.
I have only gotten into shooting for a few years now. I own two pistols (and a pellet rifle to annoy the geese and shoot coke cans just for fun).
The .22 Browning Buckmark is great to take to the range and I try to get there at least once a month. My wife is dead-on accurate and comfortable with it after only a few times at the range. The ammo is cheap and certainly readily available. Come into my house when she is alone and she can within seconds have the weapon ready to go. 1-2-3 center mass should easily stop an intruder.
I appreciate Oscar the Grumps post about the benefits of a .22 in compentant hands. Also James (22) who lived through a horrible ordeal and survived without firing a shot. In that case, type of weapon did not matter much, I think. He had a deadly weapon which he could use with confidence.
I prefer the Browning 9mm Hi-Power I also own. But is is getting older and no matter how well I clean it when I run 50 rounds I get one or two jams because the shell doesnt eject fully.
So I need a new gun.
I am leaning to a new 9mm. My son and I are both practiced with the Hi-Power already and very comfortable with the gun. We both took the NRA handgun course.
Ammo? Well, I think keeping 100 rounds for each with a couple extra clips is plenty for home defense.
Unless the zombies attack.
Nonetheless we qualify as a pretty decent home militia. We also have Tazer C-2′s and my daughter carries one in her purse at all times.
Any advice from the gun mavens out there?
Spindok
#112 spindok:
“I prefer the Browning 9mm Hi-Power I also own. But is is getting older and no matter how well I clean it when I run 50 rounds I get one or two jams because the shell doesnt eject fully.
So I need a new gun.”
Probably not, what you probably NEED is a new set of springs.
Wolff makes recoil springs for nearly every handgun in existence:
http://www.gunsprings.com/1ndex.html
The Browning is a fine weapon, but the 9mm Europellet,(hat tip:KdT), especially in FMJ form, may need multiple hits to get the job done.
And God forbid if you have to explain to a jury why you had to shoot the poor, oppressed and misunderstood fellow more than two or three times before finding his “Off” button.
I personally subscribe to the advice of preferring to carry a sidearm whose caliber begins with a “4″. (unless it’s a revolver and begins with a “3″ and has a “Magnum” at the end of it).
The volatile prices for ammunition are related to a number of factors, including Chinese industrialization (huge demand for brass, copper and lead}, U.S. military use overseas, growing domestic law enforcement demand due to larger police forces and stricter training guidelines, and a perception that Obama would crack down on gun sales. These economic and political forces have caused a short term shortage. The prices for copper and other metals have gone way down over the past few months.
91. Sparky McDougall:
I’ve spent countless hours on the net over the last couple of weeks trying to put together my home ammo stash here in the “Peoples Republic of Kalifornia”, but all I get is “Out of Stock” messages at those sites. And, I mean the dozens and dozens of sites that I visited.
How about I get a couple of thousand rounds of .223 from you, my brotha’.
Not Over.
try some different ammos before you trade your 9. could be an ammo problem.
Spindok, check the extractor on the gun, as well as the spring. A mis-tuned extractor can cause all kinds of issues. Also, if you have not replaced the recoil spring, which most people don’t know you are supposed to, I would. Like most tools, maintain them and they will perform as you believe they should.
BTW, I have put over 400,000 rounds downrange from combat, long range rifle, silhouette and other forms of competition.
The crime rate follows unemployment. Watch both of these rate parallel at the end of the first quarter.
112 Spindok;
could be as simple as not gripping firmly enough; the semi-autos require something for the slide to action against. try a firmier grip.
Thanks Joe Camel and Buddy Larsen.
I will have the gunsmith check those next time. Seems like exactly what you described. The recoil spring feels loose. Not something I would want to do myself.
I want to keep the Hi-Power. One of those made under Browning licence in Argentina, I am guessing in the late ’70s. Maybe time for a pro-tuneup and keep it like an old Mustang or other classic.
I will probably purchace a new 9mm.
Peace-out
Spindok
I’d like to add that the Democrats are also running out of ammo to support the “Campaigner in Chief”.
When’s he going to announce the summit with his buddies Putin, Castro, Chavez, Ahmadinejad, and Khadafi?
The second amendment does not specify guns. It says arms. Arms can be just about anything used in self-defense or in combat. But modern day connotation means guns (sidearms and rifles).
The guns available in 1783 were far different than guns of today. Just as the guns of 1783 were far different from earlier forms of weapons (ex. bows and arrows or the crossbow, lances, daggers and swords etc.).
Should the second amendment be held to only guns as arms or could it include any item used as a weapon? That could be as simple as a hand or fist, a baseball bat, a rope or many other forms of mayhem and destruction.
I wonder how hard it would be to ban all those items.
122. eburchelli:
“The second amendment does not specify guns. It says arms. Arms can be just about anything used in self-defense or in combat. But modern day connotation means guns (sidearms and rifles).”
~
Interesting point. My long hair could be a weapon used much like a rope when I braid it since I could literally strangle someone with my hair. I guess I’m ‘armed’ regardless of my guns. *he-he-he*
One factor in the ammunition shortage that wasn’t mentioned mentioned is the UN:
In 2005 they pressurised South Africa into blocking the export of 180 million rounds of surplus 7,65×51 ammunition to the US on the grounds of preventing “arms proliferation”. 12 million rounds had already been sold & used or put away (in my case ,some of each).
This unwarranted action by the UN & their continuing pressure on nations to destroy, rather than sell surplus small arms ammunition has led to a shortfall in the supply of this popular caliber & others.
Now you have the problem of having a Socialist as President……….
Thank You.
I purchased 4 boxes of 308 ammunition- $78.00.
Wally World had one box left.
And will purchase an American made re- loader from the American mfg. Lee industries.
$157.00
I’m all for prudent stocking up to mitigate against shortages, and strife. However, I do have to kinda laugh at people who are all bent about looming. door-to-door search and seizure operations. Get real. Even if the government were silly enough to try it, it would be a massive and unprecedented undertaking. I guess my bedrock question to the black helicopter paranoids would be, “What IS the last straw?” For me, at such search and seizure time, I would consider my social contact with the government to be immediately null and void and the “from my cold dead fingers” clause would apply. Now, just how many mini-Waco’s/Ruby Ridges do you suppose any government can undertake and withstand before they themselves loose the will to proceed? How many? How many cops and troops, who are after all, our own people, will stick at that task, block-by-block, day-by-day, getting murdered and having to murder innocents until they decide it ain’t worth it? How many will desert? (think of the NOLA disaster situation) How many of your friends and neighbors deaths can be explained away, even by the finest government propaganda machine calling gun owners “wacko’s” or “criminals” or “terrorists” before the whole farce is exposed and there is a REAL revolution at hand? No folks, the least of your worries is door-to-door searches.
Just look at the UK. They took the guns away from the citizens and crime has quadrupled. If you shoot an intruder, you go to jail for possessing a firearm. One man is serving a life term for killing a man who broke in his house. He was seen as “mean with no heart”. Unreal – this is what’s coming here – get ready folks. We can’t let this happen. We must be able to defend our families and homes.
We have to keep our 2nd amendment rights or we are done!!
SpindoK
If you are worried about jams, and they will happen with most autos, keep an old wheel gun as a back up. A SW 38 spl is accurate, won’t jam. With an auto you have to be careful about being a 30 second hero. When the 31st second comes around your either out of ammo or jammed. Your Browning High Power is a fine weapon, have lots of clips and a backup. If you have to fire more than 50 rounds you’re probably screwed anyway. Maybe you should invest in a rifle. My suggestions are the M1 Carbine, a Mini 14, or an AK 47. They’ll do the job for those nasty over 50 round jobs.
#124 Mike the Limey:
“In 2005 they pressurised South Africa into blocking the export of 180 million rounds of surplus 7,65×51 ammunition to the US on the grounds of preventing “arms proliferation”. 12 million rounds had already been sold & used or put away (in my case ,some of each).”
That was some good ammo, at great prices.
What do you want to bet that the only “surplus” we’ll be able to get, (7.62 NATO), will soon be Chinese manufacture?
Which, of course, won’t be “surplus” at all…
local walmart is almost completely cleaned out of everything except 12 gauge shotgun shells. dang.
To my fellow bloggers who have remaked in detail on the subject of the current ammunition shortage. I am a resident of Texas and not far from the border with Mexico. The Mexican Federal government is fighting a losing battle with the Sinaloa and Gulf Drug Cartels. The Cartels are better financed. Better armed. And now we see, better trained. Their favored weapons are the full auto AK 47 and the RPG. Not the civilianized semi-auto AR-15 nor bolt action hunting rifles.
Here in the border counties of Texas, everyone I know, black, brown, and white, are stocking up on weapons and ammo for one reason. We expect the Cartels to make an armed incursion into the US once they believe they have neutralized the armed forces of the Mexican Government. Nor do many of us believe the current Administration will take any action to defend American soil were such an invasion to occur.
Indeed the mercemary commando’s that work for the Gulf Cartel, the much feared “Los Zetas”, are reputed to already be conducting assassination missions in the larger cities of San Antonio, El Paso, Houston, and Dallas. Los Zetas are former Meixcan Special Forces soldiers, trained by the US and now professional mercenaries. It is assumed at this point that the improvement in the tactical capabilities of the Cartels is largely due to them.
Call us what you may, but we will defend our homes and our families regardless of what the East and West Coast Liberals have to say about it.
Slavak,
Who are they assassinating here in the U.S.? Are they attacking U.S. citizens or Mexican nationals hiding out here?
Why can’t we turn our special forces guys lose on that scum and rub them out? I mean, this is war so we might as well give it to them hard.
What is really strange is that I remember a blog from an Australian asking about the ammo situation in the USA. He was complaining that all the available ammo, calibers 223, 7.62 NATO or Russian, was gone and couldn’t be gotten. He couldn’t explain the shortage only that there was one. I wonder if something else is really afoot here. Does anyone have any more information? Not conjecture please.
It’s just paranoia. I bet most of all those guns will never see the light of day outside of gun cabinets and shooting ranges. People are so mentally invested in imaginary scenarios peddled by unrealistic media that they think they NEED guns to protect themselves. It’s just a security blanket with a bad habit of discharging and killing unintended people.
Let alone some of the borderline-nuts thinking about government that seems to dominate the fringe. FFS people talking about revolution, you all make me ashamed to be conservative some times. We should pack some of you up to colombia so you can see lucky we in the USA are.
To 133. fred
Their are many cases of drug cartel/mexican army sneaking across the border and killing ppl in the US. They even pretend to be cops or federal agents. I’m trying to find a story on it however it all spam from recent news.
Both the cartels and government routinely sneak into the US to conduct attacks and stealing of stuff from each other and US citizens.
135. Dave D,
SURVIVAL is all about being PREPARED for ‘imaginary’ scenarios. No doubt you’re one of the Limo Libs who only keeps a bottle of vintage red in the ‘friddy’ and a package of stale crackers in your cabinet.
Believe me…should the worst happen I’ll bet you liberal candy asses will be knocking on my door begging for a crumb and guess what? I’ll more than likely ‘share’ because I have a big heart and the idea of seeing my neighbor suffer would be my undoing. Maybe I’m rare but I still bake bread and share it with my neighbors. I make yummy, scrumptions crab cakes and desserts and share those with my neighbors too. Both of my neighbors are LIBERALS by the way. -One being an ex school principal who has lost over 100k of his retirement 401k fund. *gasp*
“scrumptions”
Delia either made a typo or just invented a new word.
ARGH!
David D
People said the same thing before the LA riots. After the riots people were twenty deep at the gun store counters.
Its paranoia if it doesn’t come true. If it comes true then its foresight.
I hope that you’re right and that it is just paranoia, I think we can all live with it.
Homeland Security purchased $100 million of ammunition.
Homeland security purchased 250 million rounds of pistol ammo in 2011. In march of 2012 they purchased another 450 millions rounds, then one month later in April 2012 they purchased another 750 million rounds. That is a total of 1.2 billion rounds of pistol ammo so far this year. That is not war ammo. That is to control the general population in a time of martial law or other incidents.
David D–if you have ever had someone try to break into your house while you’re there, you would never want to be without some type of protection. I live in a nice neighborhood and live alone. About a decade ago I gave a potential burglar fair warning, I told him I was armed, was going to count to three, and then would shoot if he did not leave. Never had any trouble since. I sleep fine knowing that I can get to my gun before anyone can get to me. Paranoid by your definition? Perhaps, but more importantly I’m safe.
Most of us buy insurance or have it provided. There’s life insurance, car insurance, health/medical insurance, and the list goes on. It’s for a worst case scenario. Why is buying guns and stocking ammo any different? It’s not paranoia. It’s common sense.
Not using it (except in the case of life insurance – can’t get out of that one) is to be preferred but the need to have it is logical. Many people stock up on food and water when the weather service forecasts bad weather. Is that paranoia? Maybe to some it is, but better safe than sorry and I’ll hang on to my paranoia, thank you very much.
None of your damn business why I’m stocking up…
Wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs! They are all correct from their equal point of view. There will always be wolves who want to eat the sheep. There will always be sheepdogs who want to protect the sheep. There will always be sheep to be food for the wolves and the sheep will want the sheepdogs and wolves to disarm.
@Delia
First off, I don’t think you read that I am a conservative. Oddly enough, some conservatives don’t think that gun ownership is all that effective in deterring crime. The data is inconclusive-britain may have seen a rise in crime, but japan has never seen increased levels despite having even more stringent controls. And in africa gun ownership has nothing to do with deterrance at all.
Second, there’s reasonable preparations for reasonable events. You put an emergency kit in your car because it breaks down, and they do that. But if you look at the reasons why people use them for protection, it’s not driven by statistics or reason. It’s driven by perception, which the media inflates by only reporting the bad and not the good.
The pro-gun rhetoric tends to wildly overestimate the actual need for a gun for self-defense, and that’s the saner side.
@Oscar
How many of those people actually suffered from the riots? Would a gun have made any difference to them during it? No, because most of the buyers were not affected-it’s just perception. If people want to prevent riots, arming the populace won’t do much, because riots are born…from the populace.
LeighB
you do realize that the gun has nothing to do with having no trouble since right? Or that it was more the unpreparedness of the criminal than your gun that mattered? If he also had a gun, you’d have been dead, gun or not.
If you were standing there with a baseball bat in hand, chances are you would have seen the exact same response. It was more about your preparedness and getting up to actually confront a criminal that the deterrent value of your weapon.
@eburchelli
Life insurance can’t be stolen and used to kill people. It can’t accidentally kill the user or their dependents. It also can’t overreact and kill innocent people.
Even responsible though, there’s this whole mindset about gun owners as displayed in conservative blogs that annoys me. Like Slavak and his need to defend against drug cartels, or people that think gun ownership is a hedge against dictatorship. Or someone like Stella who things the democrats are preventing republicans and republicans only from owning ammo. Or marc malone who will get triggered by the fairness doctrine into armed revolution. Or ttx who agrees with him.
That’s the crap that’s worrisome. I’m more worried about jim baker going nuts and thinking the census taker that comes to the door is going to take his guns away than actual government doing so.
Where’s the dissent in this thread about that?
The average gun owner cannot be prepared against a military or professional attack, I agree. That takes a whole different level of training and preparation.
Most of us who own and use guns as a hobby, (way more fun than bowling) or as legitimate hunters, do want to have a home backup – just in case.
That is the level I am interested in. Besides, should the zombies attack, ‘a blade never neads reloading’. Anyway, handguns are a last resort against zombies. They do seem to work very well against home intruders.
One can be too paranoid and some folks get that way. 10,000 rounds? Who you gonna shoot with that? OK with me if you have them but most folks are going to shoot most of those those off at the range.
That has little to do with the government as far as I can see. Not their business concerning how much ammo you stock up for your legal guns.
I expect more legal challenges in the near future from the government. I think they will loose most of those if we can hold the line.
So how many times has our current president fired an actual firearm?
Spindok
As a police firearms instructor my view is the author is mistaken that most Departments fire thousands of round of ammunition each year. In general, current law require yearly re-qualification of officers. This entails as few as 60 rounds per officer to “State qualifiy” for each year. Since most Departments in the United States are small (less than 24 officers) they do not use ammunition at the level described.
It is not very well understood, outside of the firearms interest, that different tooling is required for each caliber of ammunition. Each caliber has a wide assortment of bullet weights and powder types and charges. Each change in bullet or charge weight requires seperate tooling, set up, and quality control checks are required for each batch of ammunition, not just type. This takes time and money to change one component. Stores also do not want a lot of stock on hand so order only what they perceive (not can) they will sell.
New regulations adopted or suggested, such as declaring lead as a hazardous material, storing gunpowder 150 feet away and in a seperate building from individuals whenever a lightining storm appears to traceable ammuniton for “crime” prevetnion and solving of crimes, almost stop production or the purchasing of ammuniton by stores. They don’t want to have product they have to pay for but can’t sell. In the past there was a large ammount of surplus (cheap in cost) ammuniton that has now been used or is unavailable due to changes in regualtion. It is simple supply and demand.
To respond to some of the other comments I have a question. Why do people demand and buy a car that can go faster than 70 MPH or hold more people than they have in their family? Cars kill people all the time and polute the enviroment. Most importantly cars and driving are not a RIGHT, driving is a privilage the State gives to people. Also, when will we start needing a “permit” or training to speak or express an opinion about the government?
Re David D
He’s never been in a situation where a gun made the difference between life and death. Most gun owners who have been in such a position never had to fire a shot. Just having the gun at the right place at the right time made a difference. Those are the untold stories. Just because you have a gun, you don’t have to be crazy enough to use it.
David D
The people who did have guns during the riot did take them out to defend themselves and their property. A policeman we met when asked what he would do in a riot situation told us ‘GET A GUN.” People were shooting at each other. Another thing when the National Guard was sent in, they were sent in without bullets. Strangely many of them were given bullets by the general population just so they could defend themselves. Others brought them meals and drinks.
Ladies, Gentlemen, Vivo and Vennie,
I would like to address several points so please bear with me. First, I am not bitter. I do own a gun or two and have read the Bible from time to time, but I am not bitter. Actually, I am quite happy with my life.
As a retired Marine and competitive shooter I find some things y’all have said both encouraging and frightening. It is good that many of you want to take action to defend your selves and your families. The bad is I don’t see you getting any training beyond the initial firearms course.
Boys and Girls it is very simple:
TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING.
When I teach an advanced pistol or tactical rifle class I tell the class the things my daddy told me. When you pull a firearm on someone you have to be prepared for 3 things to happen.
1. You had better be ready to die.
2. You better be prepared to kill someone.
3. You better be willing to suffer what my happen to you with the courts.
Oh, and TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING.
Here is the first place you should look, http://www.idpa.com, the International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) Most places that have a gun club may have an IDPA chapter. The competition and scenarios are real life situations. The guys and gals will be more than happy to help you with your defensive shooting needs. Besides, It’s fun.
Shot as much as you can afford then shoot a little more. Between now and September I will be shooing at least 500-1,000 rounds a week in training. Oh, who ever said the 5.56 or .223 round is not very accurate? I shoot that round with an 80 or 90gr. Sierra MatchKing quite accurately out to 1,000 yards. I own 5 AR platforms, 4 are for putting itty bitty holes into itty bitty circles between 50 and 1,000 yards. Break into my house and find out what the 5th one is for.
Here in the free State of Wyoming many of the police and sheriff departments were polled and very few said they would order their departments to participate in any “Gun Grab”. The Army times did a similar survey and found that about 85% of the active duty military said the same thing. It is not aginst the UCMJ to follow an unlawful order.
If you like shooting, then learn how to reload. Not only will you save a little money, but it is fun. After a stressful day helping to house, cloth and feed those who don’t want to work, I come home and at some point find myself in front of my reloading bench.
If you thinking about buying a new pistol, find a range that lets you rent several different kinds of pistols then get the most powerful you can handle. My 5′-6″, 125lbs, 21 year old daughter loves her Springfield XD in .45ACP. She also shoots IDPA and is very very good.
You may not agree with then on everything, I don’t and I am a life member, join the NRA, Gun Owners of American or both. They are the front line in defending the Second Amendment.
Semper Fi America from a Sheepdog, we will prevail.
Gunny J
Oops,
Two things I messed up on. OK, maybe more but I caught these two.
Shoot as much as you can. Not Shot as much as you can.
It is not against the UCMJ to disobey an unlawful order. “I was just following orders when I killed those 6,000,000 Jews” will not cut it anymore. Neither will, “I killed this legal gun owner because he would not allow me to violate his Constitutional Rights.”
Semper Gumby America and if you can’t be Gumby, at least try to be Pokey.
Gunny J
Never until now have I sensed a real threat or feeling of insecurity and danger to freedom in the USA.
This buying up of ammo doesn’t surprise me.
I’m actually thinking of buying an SKS or two and storing LOTSA ammo and learning how to use it.
People need to be prepared in the event the USA degenerates into Argentina.
Could it happen? Yes. Likely? Probably not, but being prepared doesn’t hurt.
There are currently 80 million Americans who own guns, and, in total, they own approximately 500 million guns. If 95% of those people were to meekly and obediently hand over their weapons to government Brown Shirts, that means the U.S. Government would still have to kill 4 million of us! Keep stocking up on guns and ammo for as long as you can. The Founding Fathers were brilliant, indeed! The Second Amendment isn’t about preserving our right to hunt ducks, it’s the ultimate provision for citizens to keep the government from enslaving them.
Last I looked the Police were not issued Ak 47 or any other weapon in 7.62x.39 Nor is the military. This ammo is being sold to civilians. A WHOLE LOt of it!! One local store here sold out 100,000 rounds in a bit over a week. Yes that is right one hundred thousand rounds. They said they could be selling more every day but can not get any more. Both Wal Marts were picked clean of everything. EVEN .22 cal. The guy at the gun counter said as soon as it comes in it goes out. The phone is ringing off the hook he said.
So I do not buy the Police/ Military taking up much of it. It is going to the public. I will leave every one to figure out why for themselves. One guy said told me.. The answer to 1984 is 1776………
From a scientific background (PhD), ex-military pilot, intelligence officer, and 30 + years working with state and national law enforcement of all types, it is not just the American public that is prepping. Numerous agencies have upgraded, enlarged, increased, and made more realistic their training for what THEY see coming. Here in Denver, local officers and county sheriffs are undergoing riot training, crowd control, family preps, etc. etc. for various potential events. Even NorthCom has changed certain profiles to underscore these eventualities.
We are detecting a collective conscience surrounding the impending troubles, and much like the few days warning of an impending hurricane, people are prepping for the unknown and known. These people cross all political, social, and economic spectra, and peers, friends and others who were avid antigun are now purchasing weapons and ammo. One friend purchased over $5,000 in weapons, ammo and various other equipment in one weekend alone. This family was rabid antigun until recent events changed their views on the future. Law enforcement agencies are experiencing massive increases in concealed weapons, CW, permit applications from novice and experienced, rich and poor, male and female, liberal and conservative alike. A recent weekend trip to a very large, national sporting goods/outdoor supply store revealed much, and the amount of women and mature professional men who had never discharged a weapon in their life was most interesting. The parking lot was filled with the usual pickups and SUVs, but also parked with those were Mercedes and Lexus. People in jeans and khakis were mixed with fine suits and ladies wearing large diamonds and pearls. They sense something….and so do many agencies.
MY simple mottos:
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
An armed society is a polite society.
On a serious note, there is significant research showing that as gun ownership increases, crime decreases. On average, in urban/suburban areas there is but one police patrol car on duty for every 4,000 citizens and a single crappy domestic disturbance call will tie up at least two of those every couple of hours.
Even in the best departments, the police actually on duty can’t be everywhere and most act in a forensic capacity, taking notes and asking questions AFTER a crime is committed! On balance, patrol beat cops support an armed citizenry by a 3-1 margin! It’s their PC bosses, who support gun control!
I’ll take my chances with the real threat of weapon use as the best means of insuring my safety and safety of those for whom I’m responsible.
Tom
RE the sks
Its a good choice. A lot depends on where the weapon was manufactured. Russian is good. Chinese not bad. Avoid the Yugoslavian sks, new ones tend to jam and I don’t know why. I’ve fired the Chinese one and it is fairly accurate. It won’t jam. I hear the Russian ones are far more accurate. Its a good basic weapon.
I might suggest a good old back up and that’s a Mauser. They’re just fun to shoot and very accurate. Their weakness is that it is an old fashioned bolt action. Others in this category are the Springfield 03, the Remington 17, and the British Lee Enfield. They are all fun to shoot.
If you want fire power you might consider the Mini 14.
When has the U.S. government ever confiscated guns? I’m not being a wiseacre. I just want to know if it has ever happened.
Militia killing the “BORG” myth with numbers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae74oMMQ4ak
too many guns and too many people for them to take us down
The current thinking is that 3% of gun owners will absolutely refuse any confiscation to the point of combat.
That 3% equals a force larger than any standing army in the world.
Google the 3% movement.
As far as keeping stockpiles, it’s like the film clips the media shows whenever a hurricane moves in: people rushing out trying to buy water, batteries, and plywood. If you live in hurricane country why don’t you have that stuff already? Good Grief people are naive.
Learn to cast your own boolits and reload. It’s not that hard, it doesn’t have to be that expensive, and your suplies will keep for dozens of years if stored properly.
Semper Paratus.
It’s not all due to the police needing training rounds. Much of it simply has to do with the government effect of spend it or loose it. Large amounts of $$ finally made it down to the local level for ‘anti-terror’ operations. Unfortunately, the government (fed all the way down to local) operate on a use it or loose it policy. If they don’t spend the money handed to them for the fiscal cycle, they loose it. Thus, on a local level, you can only run so much anti-terror operations/training…especially if there isn’t much going on in your area. To avoid losing the money handed to you you spend it…on something that has a decent shelf life and that would be ammunition. Basically law enforcement is stock piling…if they don’t spend the funds handed to them they loose the money and may get a smaller peice of the pie next time around. This mentality causes a huge amount of waste. Instead agencies should be allowed to bank the the funds for future needs (big ticket items such as vehicles, training or if enough is saved another officer) or ‘gasp!’ return it to the taxpayer without any impact to their future budgets. This might even lead to future releif on taxpayers…especially during difficult economic times (there’s a novel idea).
A BS article if I ever read one. PDs dont clean out every ammo pile at every local sporting goods store!
This kind of ?news” is an attempt to make the news, not report it
150. Gunny J:
“Boys and Girls it is very simple:
TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING.”
Very sensible advice for sensible gun owners.
I blame Abe Lincoln. The first Abe Lincoln that is.
I took a oath when I joined the military to protect all from foreign and domestic enemy’s. I give my time to volunteering to help others, after retiring from the military, my life is to serve this country, my family, my neighbors. I will be there for you. Don’t think we are paranoid, or stupid for protecting our interests. Those that are not prepared will wish they had taken precautions, for what is to come, sooner than later.
From a detached perspective, wouldnt it be a good idea to ban guns completly and issue people with swords instead ! no ammunition needed simply wipe the blade clean and you are good to go again ! a more noble method of despatch i think
however i could certainly see problems when hunting elk and other fast critters in hilly countryside, running after them with a raised broadsword looking to run them through would be an exhusting task, perhaps in these circumstances one would be permitted to throw a tomahawk, pehaps with the blade dripped in kurari to bring down the beast, subject to an accurate launching and the beast in question being hit by the thrown article of course.
“What thou must ask thou self is did i take five swipes or did i take six …do you feel blessed…well doth thou KNAVE…”
158 oopsif:
This depends on what you define as the US Government. The Feds, maybe not so much.
However, at the local level, especially the area east of New Mexico and south of the Ohio river during the period of about 1870-1960, things were very much a different story, at least for some people, who, shall we say, were not connected to the local power structures.
The NRA was founded for a reason.
Since this was done by a consensus of groups across the region, who mostly worked without records or the sort of organization the Germans brought to their gun grab in the first half of the twentieth century, it is harder to substantiate this example in an internet discussion. If you don’t want to take my word for it, I am sure your local five million plus item library will have some scholarly tomes on the subject.
Some of this still goes on in the current day, in other locations, possibly for different purposes and possibly not.
Training can’t be taken from you. The basics of precision long-range fire apply to any rifle, and they don’t bother to teach the basics any more, instead depending on mass-fire (like Hessians with muskets!) and overwhelming numbers with technical superiority (sensors, air support).
When the supply tail is long and thin, cutting off fuel or ammo resupply paralyzes a modern big military. Look what happened in the Kyber Pass with just one blown-up bridge!
US mouse rifle runs out of steam at over 300M. Full-power .30 cal hits like a truck at 500M+ and makes concealment out of “cover”.
I don’t recall being released from the Oath of Enlistment during the separation process. None of us ever have been.
Barry, Nancy, and Harry have 2 years to eff things up, if we make it that far.
Beware the man with only one rifle. A Mosin-Nagant or Enfield has good effective range for cheap. The first shot (the one that includes surprise) works the same from a bolt-action, muzzle-loader or a machine gun.
“They’ve got us surrounded. Poor bastards.”
Cheers.
I for one have no problem with gun ownership for law-abiding citizens used for hunting, sportsmanship or home protection. If someone wants to own a gun legally they should be licensed and registered. The should also be trained on how to store and maintain their weapons. As Gunny J put it most eloquently,
The problem is there are too many guns on the street that have only one purpose. Killing people. Most of that comes from illegal handgun usage by people who shouldn’t get their hands on them. Especially criminals and their enablers like unscrupulous gun dealers. A lot has been said about the automatic assault weapon ban. Here’s an example of a weapon again designed with only one purpose in mind. What else is one going to use it for? Hunting deer?
Oh. And I would have a serious problem with any government that confiscates your gun, unless its pretty obvious it was used in a crime.
As gunny J put it most eloquently TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING.
166: RobinofSherwood,
The dominant weapons technology of the day tends to control the nature of the way society is governed. Swords are muscle powered and heavily dependent on skill. Muscle powered weapons cause rule and power to favor the young and the strong, and those who can control great numbers of the young and the strong. Skill powered weapons mean that the class that can devote the most time to the matter has the most power. Together, they tend to support things like aristocracies and feudalism. This is definitely a more noble way of doing things, but this is not necessarily a good thing.
In comparison, firearms are require little strength or skill. (There are items which require great physical ability, and training and skill can go very far. However, a little old lady who has never held a pistol before can still be effective, and is not merely living on the sufferance of those stronger and more skilled then her.) These properties are very useful, perhaps essential, to The Republic.
oopsif – most recent time that I know about is during the aftermath of the hurricane Katrina flooding in New Orleans. Some of the citizens have not gotten their guns back yet. Some who did only got them back, after a law suit by the NRA, very recently, say more than 2 years after the guns were confiscated by the N.O. Police. Many look too rusty to want back.
In thirty years of buying ammunition, I have never once paid less than the last time. I suspect that no one in the United States has ever had the experience of putting new, lower price tags on a working store’s ammunition inventory.
Tell me again why I shouldn’t buy it now?
One of Stalin’s first acts was to disarm citizens. Obama will be following in his path. Obama knows he will be a one term president and as a Muslim sympathizer will do everything in his power to weaken America / Americans.
During the riots (Rodney King) many liberal Hollywood celebrities called Charlton Heston to borrow weapons.
. The hypocrisy runs rampant in Hollywood and Washington DC. Perhaps it is a good thing. Americans have become complacent , fat and lazy. Their three best friends are the remote , the refrigerator and San Francisco Twinkies.
American Christian Infidel
Michael Canzano
If you think that the police will get there in time…then you probably believe that the Brinks commercial where the moron chick gets out of the shower or the teen is standing there thinking her parents are coming back cause they forgot something. In real life….they would both end up raped, the criminal would not be deterred from their pursuit of their victim. As a law enforcement officer with 27 + years in the business I can tell you of the numerouis times when I heard those magic words ” I wish’t I’da had a gun”! THese word do not offer solace. These deluded inmeciles who think that tyhe guns should be registered….duh uh if you are hat dumb….it’s too late for you. Whe they register them on Monday.,,they will come for them on Tuesday. A total of 30 years woprking under the yoke of the scum who bleeds us dry, ups our taxes just to award contracts to their frioends, to receive kickbacks, to steal from the public coffers and then have the gall to expect the poublic to guard them from the “manufactured bad guys” who they say are stalking them…to draw attention away from their crimes. To prepare their mental impairment defense or their “I’m 70 yesr old and have Alzheimers” defense….or the lie du jour to cover their crimes. Anybopdy who can vote themselves a raise WILL. They care about you and me, especially at the Federal level, largely the most arrogant, narcissistic self agrandizing bastards are now attracted to public office and you can count on shills like Vinny to be stupiud enough or owned ehough to paly their class warfare games…under the guise of racism….where would we be without manufactured racial division, stupidly buying the lie…sellingh the liberty with each conjob they swallow and costing us all our freedoms…If you think the cops will get there…just walk on down to youre loacl funeral parlor and lay down thereby saving yourself the trouble of actually becoming the victim…..Sickening targeted to the lowest common denominator…don’t be that fool. Lock and load cause it’s later than you think and your local poilce know..the individuals and many or mos have guns beyond merely that needed to be a cop. Word to the wiseis sufficient….don’t call me and ask to “borry” a gun when TSHTF cause laughing at my warnings and then expecting m3e to adopt ou is guaranteed to fail miserably and possibly permanently. Many of you you won’t listen, you never have; I’ve seen your blood on the pavement, your bodies on the floor staining the carpet, talking to your relatives, hearing yet again….I wish’t I’da had a gun…..You are on your own….good luck….you probably won’t make it.
PS….those B/S statistics that some of you may buy into to support the lie about “Ohhh the children are bein killed by evil guns…it is NOT my fault that some crack dealer’s girlfriend ( who should not even have custody ( but wait til they cam go after a normal person) allows her 4 year old to get and fire a gun killing thei rlittle brother or sister. Also stop buying the statisitcs that makeyou poost stuiid things about registering guns then turn around and try to make up for it to it by rousing speeches about practicing and trainig….get real you are buyin cooked books where they conveniently include person up tyo 21 or 25 years old as chldren to cook the books and con you into the stupid stances you assume. Every scum doper who shoots another “up in the cut” over a rock, a bag of rocks, a couppla oxycontin 80 mg or the latest basehead girl “miz Thang” and is counted as child just heaps up the pile that you buy. And it is a prodijious pile indeed. Mad Max world is coming thanks to the greed, the nepotism, the thievery and the abomination of Amerikan politics. The inner cities will burn down, the thugs that number far beyond your wildest imaginations ands p[rofessional victims angry necause they didn’t get their ?????? from the guv’mint will summarily arrive and demand your ??? to make up for their not getting their ????? fill in the blanks as you prefer. Believe it, live it and expect to suffer and die for, by and thru it.
Friends; have you read this before?
The Gun is Civilization
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.
In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.
Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.
When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
I don’t use anything bigger than my weiner. And even it shoots blanks.
I do carry a gun, because cops are too heavy. Besides when seconds count, cops are minutes away. I once shot an intruder 47 times. The police asked me why I shot him 47 times. I told him, I only had 47 bullets. I keep four .22′s tied together, It’s my .88 magnum.
Someone asked me why I carried a pistol. They wanted to know if I was expecting trouble. I told them, if I was expecting trouble, I’d of brought my shot gun.
when a goverment becomes intolerable…..
No! You fools! Don’t you SEE? This is EXACTLY the kind of stimulus opportunity the Great and Powerful Ob has been laboring to bring forth… all you need is a Lee Progressive Loader and a sign reading “Will Reload for Food…!” You’ll make a mint!
I pack a pistol ’cause I travel some rough roads. I wish everyone carried a gun. Crime would be down and trust would be up.
I find I get a lot more respect when people sense that I’m armed. And I love it. I sort of grew up starved for love and now, oddly enough, my gun helps me get the kind of attention I deserve.
Peace. Out.
“158. oopsif:
When has the U.S. government ever confiscated guns? I’m not being a wiseacre. I just want to know if it has ever happened.”
Well, we’ve never had a Marxist president before.
Well, we’ve never had a Marxist president before.
No, but we’ve had a Fascist one, I think his initials are G.W.B……God, glad we barely survived those 8 years.
Mr. and or Ms. WhoMe?
Since you tossed the Fascist word out there, please explain to my just how President Bush was a Fascist.
Since you most likely do not know the definition for the word I have included it for you
fas·cism Listen to the pronunciation of fascism
Pronunciation:
\ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date:
1921
1: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
Seems to me, after reading the definition, you may be calling the wrong president a fascist.
Rise up America and come join the Revolution.
Semper Gumby
Gunny J
When the Civil Revolution of late 2012 started the first casulties were the local and State police. They resisited for a short time, but as thier ranks were depleted by relentless patriots with a blood lust for pay-back, they tried to return home to thier hungry scared families, but all they found was…
hey just got back from cabelas, could not find any 7.62×39 and very few 9mm.what the heck happened.
Boy oh, boy am i glad i reload and have bought so much over the years! My ammo fort is getting large now.
This is the “Change” that Obama was referring to.
re: 177 rich shepas -
It is customary to provide attribution when you use someone else’s work.
[url]http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-gun-is-civilization.html[/url]
re: 158 oopsif:
Several come to mind: Confiscations happened after the passage of the Sullivan laws in New York, in California after Roberti-Roos, and more recently, in New Orleans.
Would the US government ever go door-to-door to get the guns? Would the military and police comply? Would the press report such violations?
Germany: Came door to door to get the guns. The military and police did as they were ordered. Then they came door to door to get the people. The Germans didn’t object. Remember Hitler? Socialist The press was owned by the government.
Russia: Came door to door to get the guns. The military and police complied. Then they came door to door to get the people. The Russians learned not to object. Remember Stalin and Lenin? Socialist/Communist The press was owned by the government.
China: Came door to door to get the guns. The military and police complied. Then they came door to door to get the people. The Chinese learned not to object. Remember Chairman Mao? Communist And when they forgot that lesson, Tiananmen Square. The press is owned by the government.
The list goes on… and on. Cuba, Venezuela, N Korea, etc. All these populations owned guns at one time. Now the Brits, Aussies, Dutch… no guns. What’s next?
And they did all that without computers, satellite imagery, and stealth surveillance.
When a people think their heritage protects them, that their leaders would never violate their rights, take their guns or take their life, that’s when they are most vulnerable.
Most people will give up their rights to avoid being the next casualty. Most soldiers will do exactly as they are ordered, and killing one or two motivates the rest of them. You think Americans will stand tall, but we are now raising a soundbite and plugged in social structure. We have a first generation (and the youngest) through a liberal/socialistic college career. How long will it last? Unless we get it to swing back hard and right in the next few years, the USA is the next Canada.
Obama declares he is not a socialist, but his programs are the result of his real philosophy. He also claimed there wasn’t a single earmark in his stimulus package, even though there were 8000+ of them. The media shrugged it off. Bush would have been impeached for such a lie. They own the media by proxy. Don’t count on the media to defend you or report your arrest as anything other than an elimination of an enemy of the people. Don’t count on the police or military to defend you. And don’t assume because you live in the USA that your neighbors will stand with you.
If you don’t count on your ability to defend yourself, you pretty much have nothing. If we don’t get this right soon and eliminate the NEED for a dictator, we will have just that.
Fellow Patriots,
If you are having trouble finding .223 and other Ammo, go to Sportsman’s Guide. Click: Here is their latest specials offering. They have a lot more. I have used them for years and am happy with the service. Shipping is ground only (UPS, FEDEX), and takes about 10 days.
If the HTML above does not turn into a link, just copy and paste in your browser.
Marc
(P.S. Visit our photo Blog…Just click on my name)
I live in the ozarks in sowthwest mo. about ahour from bass pros national head quarters i went in there today for some 9mm. all pistol ammo accept 22 totally gone. said they have no idea when they will get more. need help.
How did this country come to be? Did we not seize it from our prior government with extreme force? Was our tool of choice the gun? What innovations in firearms were created by this nation? Oh yeah; How many civilizations and governments never collapsed? I agree with this woman to a large degree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
Thanks to all ablogging herein for thy tendere mercies of witte and wisdome.
Aprile with its shoures soon soote but alas 380 acp hath not been found. Harken unto us O fair wyndes of amouries sweete, send us thy pleasing fruites of leade and fyre in calibres most desired. And so, Endeth soon our unhappy travails thy wilst.
U.F.O.s ARE real.
im in phoenix, 2nd to only mexico city in annual kidnappings. yeah, no way law enforcement can protect everyone. im the protector of my family. me and my .45, .357, AR-15, and 2000+ rounds of ammo. i buy it when i see it. got another case of .45s today. saw some .40s ill return for tomorrow to flip in a few months and make some $. capitalism at its finest. take that obama.
Second Amendment Rights
OK let me state this real quick ; I am so sick of people throwing the National Guard in my face when i mention the Second Amendment.
First off no where in the Amendment does it state any thing about a National Guard nor does it imply anything about a Government militia. After all the National Guard is under direct orders of our government(is it not? can they conduct any exercise with out prior approval of the government?). It is my understanding that the second amendment is to protect us from a tyrannical government. Or threats both foreign and domestic. So if we are led to believe the second amendment is only meant for the National Guard, Isn’t that privy to say the fox watching the hen house? That makes absolutely no sense.
I am not a conspiracy’s advocate nor am I a “gun nut” what i am is a proud American gun owner and Damn proud of the countless people that gave their lives in defense of the rights i hold so dear and Cherish so greatly.
I hope all you “capitalists” and paranoids hoarding ammo will realize you have only created a big hardship with those of us who actually go to a range and shoot the stuff. If you have an emergency that requires thousands of rounds of ammo you need more help than a 357 is going to give you.
Thanks for nothing!
Okay, for what its worth, I must respond to some of these comments. I am a firearms instructor and work at a small indoor range. Most of our business is qualifing security guards. There are over eighty security companies in our area and the need for armed security is growing by leaps and bounds. Crime is rampent with thousands of robberies, home invasions, assualts,rapes, etc. each year. We experience one murder about every thirty-six hours. There are almost thirty-five thousand carry permit holders in our county and the State is expecting this number to double this year. Why? Because people realize the Police are overwhelmed and cannot respond in a timely manner. All understand they are responsible for their own safety and well being. Is there a shortage of ammunition? Of course there is. The range I work at has posted a notice that all shooters wishing to practice must bring their own ammo, as we must retain what ammo we can obtain for training and recertification. We hear from the general population that they are deeply concerned, not just about crime, but that our government could start banning certain guns or possibly all firearms. We hear this from all aspects of our society. Young or old, male or female, black or white, married or single, rich or poor. Is there an ammo shortage? Absolutely! Yes, people are buying up extra ammo and sitting on it. The reasons for this are not many. Narrowed down to two things, protection and resistance. Holy Cow!!! Did I say resistance? Any person that believes just because we live in America, that we cannot become a Police State, needs their head examined. When one person has enough power to change the “Law of the Land” with the stroke of a pen, the country is in trouble. No government will give you anything without wanting something more valuable in return. History has proven this too many times. Our country faces some huge problems. The economy, crime, terrorism, natural disasters, and more. I am sure we will muddle our way through these things and recover. Until then, I will continue to teach people to shoot, help people get handgun permits, and qualify security guards. Also I will purchase extra ammo when I can, just in case?
Things aren’t adding up concerning the lack of ammo in this country, but I’m trying to look into the aligations that America is supplying weopens to Mexico. Number 1, our government is not responding to the violence and killings south of our boarder which will eventually expand into the US. Number 2, The government is using that excuse to take our guns away. I don’t know at this point, but could it be that our government is supplying those weopens and ammo to the Mexican drug cartel? The reason I’m saying this is because as mentioned earlier, even the least used calibers are running out of stock. The Mexican cartels are armed with military grade weopens that americans can’t own and would not be able to supply to Mexico. Question is; is our government behind those illigal sales. I would appriciate any good info if you come across it. Keep your ammo dry and your ears open.
overthrow the gov’t? what gov’t? oh the pretend one!, not worth the expense. Certainly not worth the efforts at this point. Let them dissolve of their own will, is that not the plan?
2 decades ago a case of 7.62×39 cost about 12 oz. of silver. Today that case costs somewhere near thirty oz. (#1200 now, #1500 was common then, so I’m upping the price to reflect.) Its finally got so everyone realizes that gold is not the endall of “strategic metals”
as for 38 spec etc…a win/rossi leveraction carbine in 38/357 sounds like an “easy keeper” to me. And it does not S-t all over. easy to “clean up” after.
The new 5.7? theres a reason the narco-thugs call it the “matapolicia” Me, I can still find 45-70 and 7.62×54 R….I always thought they were right about “if you have to surrender an arm to the enemy durring the heat of it, give him one he can’t feed.” That and a belief in THUMP not ZING.
Don’t forget all the first aid kit: springs, f-pins
And who would think of “civil defense” radio! don’t you know S.W. is history? Broadcasters do! They are not rebuilding the tubes to stay on the air. C.B. and brick
(linear) amps partner, that’s the new telegraph.
This is why I have reloaded my own for years ,and to get accurate ammo for my NRA matches. Now Im starting to cast my own ,lead is everywhere,so I’ll just worry about primers.’They’ WILL screw with our sport, but they dont know the can of worms they will open.
Interesting statements above,wow. This country is NO Canada ,England or Australia, we wont stand for any more no-nonsence gun/ammo bans
All I know is the obvious. That there is a drastic shortage of ammo and common firearms available for open public purchase. Everything is on backorder and even the most optimistic of weapons and ammo dealers are hard pressed to disclose any form of rational reason. I reload for everything I own and I haven’t bought a box of loaded ammo since 2001. I think it wise to bank it up and hope for the best. If there is an evil attempt at confiscation heading our way or a global/national masterplan to disarm the public well I personally will consider it a violation of my constitutional right to keep and bear arms which by default amounts to no less than an act of war declared on myself and my countrymen and will respond accordingly. I don’t want it this way and would prefer a peaceful resolution, but the security of my family and neighbors is paramount and the days which follow such a national violation would be tragic albeit very informative to the continuance of any further ideas of mass disarmament of the American and his/her household and the mesns to provide / protect thereof. Some of us have been thinking for a long time thst this might be coming to fruition. So batten down the hatches and fortify your means to effectively keep the hounds of disarmamnt at bay. In that day may the Lord have mercy on those employed to enforce becuase I will give them no quarter. I cannot single-handedly win but I assure you that those who oppose me will suffer in disproportionate numbers. I already assume that I will be overwhelmed by sheer numbers and technological superiority, but don’t tread om me and nobody gets bitten. Enough said.
When the President is willing to travel and live without armed protection, then I would suppose he has an ounce of ground to stand on.
The big-mouth left, anti-middle American crowd will be the first targets for anyone who has a “want” but does not want to work for it. Go ahead, tell everyone you do not support gun rights, make yourself a target…real smart.
to who ever reads this all the gun shops in and around austin,tx no gun powder for reloading even black powder coming up bad results the ob.m. legs… is bad enough has anyone ever realy noticed that he hired on all the clinton and his husband cronies got back in the house always wonder was the u.s. built on a lie because we have one in the house now and already started out by putting in someone that was not and should have not been put in the chair that she was given illegaly but you have to wonder why this one why is he going along with them is he paving the way for someone else to be ??????????????????????????????????????
Wow what a bunch of lemmings. The most interesting thing about the current shortages is that they are based on conjecture and a kind of hysteria normally reserved for school children. You all speak of dark imaginings, but all the while unable to point at any legislation actually passed. But please keep it up, weapons & ammo manufactures are getting richer than ever, the one thing your mass hysteria is good for is separating fools from their money.
For a guy that can’t spell his own name right, you sure are certain of reality. I suggest you actually see the bills that Obama voted for, that Biden wrote, the cases that Holder spoke out against.
But of course you’re right, jaemes.. Keep hoping for change. That’s what reality is based on. Here is what is real. You are the weak. We are the strong. Whether or not this confuses you makes no difference in the outcome.
As far as the ammo shortage goes, it won’t matter once a revolution is triggered. There will be plenty for everyone. Just have enough to get started, and learn to use one weapon well.
yelling “the sky is falling” is much better than sticking your head in the sand. one will survive-the other will get trampled in the melee.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Geniuses,
The ammo shortage has one simple cause. Simple-minded gun owners hoarding out of fear. I can’t find ammo to practice and would dearly appreciate it you clowns would stop hoarding. While you’re at it get rid of that asinine crystal ball.
Please just relax, and take the chance that you’re not as smart as you think. Once the supply recovers from your antics, maybe you’ll see that none of you are as dumb as you are as a group.
So wait a minute, let me get this straight…The reason I can’t find .25 auto anywhere is because police departments are buying it up? How many police officers carry a .25 auto?!?!?!?!
Enoch,
If you are right, it is easy enough to prove. Name one piece of legislation that has been passed, or has a remote possibility of being passed, since the new administration has been elected. Any one that reads this board, Please, I am begging you, Please site one executive order, official policy and or law, that has been enacted, since the election, that restricts the sale of any gun or ammo. Any one??? Any one??
By the way I have my guns and ammo, I am ready to defend myself and my family from the mass hysteria that drives the current shortage.
Well what I think is so funny about the supposive police over using ammo for training purposes that’s a fine and dandy but here in good ol Cali they arn’t training anymore new officers at all. All law enforcment agencies have frozen academies and arn’t even taking apps anymore, so what now? How are they using up so much ammo if there isn’t any new commers. Yes of course they train officers already working with new weapons, but still the mass must have been going to academy training. It just doesn’t add up.
Sorry, but ammo costs and shortages are due to several things at once. Raw material i.e. copper, brass, lead etc. was being bought up by China for their economic boom. U.S. Military use. Civilians speculating on ammo, worrying if Obama will ban or tax the stuff.
If you haven’t stocked up on ammo prior to now, too bad for you.
A Wal Mart sporting goods employee related to me
that the clip-fed 22-rifle will be declared an
“ASSAULT RIFLE” due to it’s rapid fire; so now a
favorite gift for many 12-year-old sons is off
limits in the land of the free? For whatever
reason, for the first time in my life there is a
real ammo shortage and I believe it artificially induced. If police are buying up the ammo, it is time the ammo producers ration police purchases and insure citizens have equal access!
ATTN: citizens! Besides ammunition, can you point to any other shortage of anything in the USA? A shortage of ammunition for average citizens is a violation of our 2nd ammendment right to bear arms. No ammo for our weapons is as serious as an artificiallly induced shortage of gasoline for our cars, no flour for bakers,
no coal for utility companies—but, only ammo
is absent from the market—be alarmed and demand ammo producers put citizen availability first. Police have more ammo than they need!
Remember and think about it. The Constitution Guaranties the right to bear arms, NOT to be able to purchase ammunition.
Amazing the number of pro 2nd Amendment conservatives who do not have a basic understanding of our Constitution.
4th Amendment guarantees our rights against “unreasonable search and seizure” which is what keeps them from taking our guns.
4th Amendment has been more threatened since 1980 by Republican judiciary appointees than at any time in our history.
Blue-Dog Dems are not going to let big-city liberals and weeny suburbanites take our gun rights away, but dumb-assed conservatives are going to let our right to privacy in our homes be taken.
I’ve been ready since the day I left my parents home. Ready for right-wing christians and and radical Moslems and the propaganda spewed by the NRA as well as the propaganda spewed by both major political parties. I pay no attention to the junk news on the TV and don’t have a moment to waste on the talk radio jokers. It’s good to be ready, but when you realize what a sorry bunch of pukes your stuck with here on this planet, even being ready is a hollow victory. I do get joy listening to the birds and the wind…thats what the world could be.
My greatest regret is that I had to share my short time here with 6 billion of you jerks.
There will be peace in the valley one day…too bad there will be no people here to enjoy it.
The two enemies of firearms (RUST AND POLITICIANS}
I understand the idea of preparation and have no problem with 2nd amendment rights, but I don’t understand all the comments on here about “the Obama threat.” E.g., comments like, “Revolution is coming because Obama is going to spend too much money and throw the nation into bankruptcy.”
The last President to run a budget surplus was a Democrat, President Bill Clinton. And, as Big Al mentioned above, gun ownership is about the ONLY freedom Republicans have tried to protect in the last few decades. Be as concerned about America’s future as you want, but be real and stop blaming “the coming end” on “the liberals,” unless you’re willing to put Bush in that category.
you left out a cause. you.
“Stock up while you can.”
it’s comments like this that encourage people to buy more than they need. further reducing inventories.
Everystore I went to today was completely out of every handgun ammo. Everytime they get some in the first one to find it buys everything they can get. I went to a local gun show today and guess what i found? Ammo…twice the price but ammo. Of course i would have bought some but i guess 380 ACP is near impossible to find even at twice the price.
Look whether you are left or right it not important at this point. They have all dug us a hole and want us to willingly to get into it. Now I am just a poor dirt farmer and don’t have much but we as a country can’t afford to continue down this road that the government is paving. A person must read the Constitution and The Bill of Rights to realize we have been getting to short end of the stick for years and thanked them for it. The Ceo’s of this country is the people which goes to the States and then to the Fed. They work for us not the other way around. So if you feel that being prepared is not wise then you have never lived poor. So whether it is beans, bullets or band aids in these times and with the health of the country it would be naive to think the government will or should be there to save you. It is your responsibility to help yourself! The Boy Scouts have a motto “be prepared”. People need to be able to help themselves and their neighbors if needed. Relying on the government to be the savior is how and why we are where we are at now.
It amazes me the lefties ignorance of the reasoning behind our countries Constitution, and the general reasons for the articles and ammendments of our constitution. If they were actually to read the Constitution, and the notes and letters that lead to the way it was written along with why certain articles were included, perhaps they might understand people that love our country and its Constituion and fear “Change”. We were given rights by our countries founders for a reason. Does it not strike a chord that the second ammendment of our constitution concerned a rights to bear arms? Do you think they just threw that in as a second ammendment for lack of something better to put in for all of their children?
Our fore-fathers told us, if the Republic fell victim to a Government that attempted to take away our rights they had provided for us in our Constitution the right to bear arms, so we could prevent such deeds and in deed we should give life and limb to protect our Constition and the rights of our children as they did for us.
That aside, as to this article. I haven’t been able to establish by any written article why certain ammo is unavailable at all. I havent seen a .22lr round for sale in Western Or. I seriously doubt the Police or the Armed forces use them in practice or for any other reason. That is just one of many, as very few rounds if any are available in any store in the area (the only thing around here is shotgun shells at insane prices). Part has to do with the dealers not getting any merchandise, and the other part has to do with hoarders stock-piling and Gun show “dealers” buying everything they can get thier greedy little paws on and selling them at elevated prices at gun shows. The bottom line is I smell a rat, because if the manufacturers are a full production like they claim to be, yet every local dealer says they they get little to no shipments at all(some havent got a thing in months) then where is it going?
Never vote away your constitutional rights. Never vote away a personal right, even if you don’t like the right of another person as it is something you don’t do. People blindly take away rights of others without thinking about the consequences. Think about them, the majority may someday not like something you do and make you a criminal for it. The anti’s outlawed hunting cougars with dogs, now we have a cougar explosion in Or, that is wiping out deer and elk populations. When the wipe out the “game” I don’t wonder what’s next….think.
I went to Walmart today, and the woman who works in the Sporting section saw me looking at the empty ammunition case. She came up to me and mentioned how bewildering it all is! She mentioned that it (i.e., the shortage of ammunition) was unbelievable.
I told her that people must be preparing for society’s downfall or for some kind of revolution. Then I jokingly mentioned that we are all prepared in case aliens come to earth to invade; we are all definitely ready!
I find it amazing that even .22LR ammo is out of stock. .22LR ammo for cripes sake! Sheesh, when did you think you’d see this day? Absolutely unbelievable.
I believe that History will look back on the Ammo Shortage like it does the California Power Shortages of the late 90′s early 2000′, and oil shortages of the 70′s. The latter 2 caused by Industry,Dealer, Vendor greed and price gouging market manipulations.
We are a consumer driven 21st Century Industrial Power,and shortages on consumer goods rarely happen unless there is severe market manipulation going on with the desired product.
I belive the Ammo shortage will be proven the same type of Price Gouging/Market Manipulation, as Walmart has already gotten wise to Dealers and Gun Show Vendors buying their stock out on arrival and reselling them for Double the Price!!!
The worst part about Price Gouging on Ammo is that this action Opens the Ammo Market up to Future Government [Federal Trade Commission, Congressional regulation/action]. IE De
Facto Gun Guntrol. So Keep Anti Gunners Happy and Keep UP the Gouging.
What about fact checking the shortage of IMPORTED ammo and components? I’m tired of all the speculation that “maybe” the govt did this or that…. I’d like to see some fact checking. I like the conversations with U.S. manufacturers which did clear up some things – but I also miss the days of bargains on imported ammo.
Wow. I cant believe some of what I am reading, just cant believe people are so ignorant, quotes like (the Democrats are buying up the Ammo so the Republicans cant have them) WOW… To be honest, I would be more afraid of the Republicans taking away the guns, or outlawing them, if the poop hit the fan.
Consider only one aspect of ammunition shortage, the high demand among the citizens. In an ideal world Manufacturers deal with distributors who in turn deal with retailers. But there seems to be a disconnect at the distributor level since the retail level in my part of central Oregon has seen very little handgun ammunition. Lots of shotgun and quite a bit of rifle ammo (.17 and .22 LR excepted), but not much in the .40 S&W, 9 mm, .45 ACP, .357, and .380 ACP handgun calibers. The only explanation that seems to make sense is that moneyed sources have inserted themselves at the distributor’s door and are paying a premium to buy up all they can for later resale on the back-door/gun-show market. I have heard stories about early entrants to gun shows buying up all the handgun ammo available thus starving out the ordinary customer. But gun shows are not the major source of ammo. That source is (or should be) the normal retailer. But nothing much has shown up at our retail level and the little that does appear is quickly bought up even though retailers (those with principles anyway) limit sales to 2 boxes per person/per caliber/per day. My personal store in Redmond Oregon currently has a fairly good supply of 9 mm and some .38 special but not much else in handgun calibers. And no one in my area has seen .380 ACP’s for a long time. As for those saying this is a “destructive” caliber, they don’t know much about ammunition. The .380 ACP is one of the smallest self protect calibers you can use, apart from .25 and .32′s. It is popular because it fits the pocket gun category occupied by the .380 Bersa, Sig P232 and Walther PPK family of weapons. But the 9 mm is much superior to the .380 ACP because it has more powder behind it and is available in bullets up to 147 gr while the .380 ACP tops out at about 105 gr. Certainly the demand by police departments would not account for the .380 ACP shortage. I personally believe that scalpers are the reason for much of the shortage at the civilian level. And this will not likely change until the black market is truly glutted and there is no more profit to be had. Then the distributor/retailer connection will be restored and citizens will again be able to fill their needs.
The Obama administration doesn’t need to gun control. All they have to do is limit the availability of the ammo causing a shortage. Guns are useless without ammo. That’s what’s happening.
How many times have you heard that a vehicle can be used as a weapon? If a drunk driver kills someone, do we ban the vehicle? No, we hold the driver responsible. It’s really that simple, folks.
Lawmakers blaming guns for violence is like fat people blaming the spoon.
Where is Roy D. Mercer when you need him?
Chuck Norris’s new book, Black Belt Patriotism, is available at Amazon.com.
He has a sign on his porch at his ranch in Texas that reads, ‘We don’t dial 911′.
As a Desert Eagle owner, he commented, “Any burglar who tests what I mean by that sign will find out really quick!”
If your state is an open carry state you’d be wise to start getting the LEO’s accustomed to you carrying now, exercise the right and it will have a better chance of remaining in existence. It would certainly be a shame to see the government try to take our guns from us, I for one will not just put mine in their hands or lay them down either. These rights are supposed to be inalienable rights, not for whomever comes along and thinks because they hold the reigns of this country they can do whatever they so choose. I voted for this president and I strongly support a majority of his ideals. There’s not one individual in this world that I like 100% and he definitely is no exception. When it comes to a complete reworking of the constitution, I definitely have concern, but not nearly as much concern as the majority. This administration will make strong willed attempts changing much about this great country and fail miserably. There will be slight changes, but nothing too drastic. Change we need, should be loosely translated to mean, the beginning of change is here, but it’s going to be quite a long time until the right changes are made. This administration is still young, as it matures it will surely see the error in it’s thought processes and change it’s way of thinking. Right now that is the only change we need!!
The ammo shortage is just more scare BS from the NRA. After hearing about it, I stopped at a Cabellas in SD and there was still plenty of ammo.
Fiester: All they have to do is limit the availability of the ammo causing a shortage. Guns are useless without ammo. That’s what’s happening.
—————————–
Also found ammo at Gander Mountain and Rural King.
Individually, it doesn’t take much to effect a shortage in any commodity. If everybody doubled the amount of Reynolds Wrap they bought at the store, even from one to two rolls, collectively there would be a shortage of aluminum foil.
Nonetheless, Like James A. #230, I agree that scalpers have entered the distribution picture, the same way commodity traders with oil futures drove up the cost of gasoline.
The moral of the current story is that if you like coffee, and drink it every day, there’s no harm in stocking up, creating a last-in last-out buffer inventory. So what if others say, “Hey, you’re buying too much coffee for your personal use!”
Two final words: Lee Loader.
the hell with guns and ammo i prefer my sound weapon built it myself can disable the masses its called an infrasound cannon look it up its powered by a gas mower engine best of all its totally silent youll wonder why the sound of the mower engine is killing you. oh. it is, its melting your insides very quickly science fiction ??? nope just 1 smart engineer my friends good luck
The reason there is an ammo shortage is because people are stockpiling and hoarding out of fear.
I wish Bob Owens had researched this as well as he researched the military issue from his 2007 blog.
As far as the current administration goes, they really don’t think of gun control as a front-burner issue. They are fully aware that they stand to lose more votes if they reimpose old bans or pass new ones than if they just leave it alone.
So the question becomes, where’s the profit? Who is benefiting from this? I’m going to let you guys try to answer that one, and if anyone can come up with some logic that points to a politician, I would love a shot of that juice you’re drinking.
In speaking with the manufacutures, Remington, winchester, to name two, The components for making ammo (4) a brass cartridge, a bullet, a primer and powder are only manufacuted so fast. They are working around the clock to supply components to make thier own ammo. Reloading your own ammo is the way to go. Primers are the hardest component to find. Brass will be the next item in demand, bullets and powders are much easier to find. The hazemat fee for powders and primers plus the shipping cost will lead you to get a group shipment together with your counterparts and friends. Reloading is fun and a great learning experience, plus the cost will go down each time you load and reload once fired brass. Check it out!!!
Imported Ammo, that is what is wrong with this country, we only make beer and ammo + pron but who doesn’t. This country and its Citizens need to support the American Products, if you pay more for a product, maybe its worth it. Look in your driveway and the driveways around you, how many American cars vs non American? If its a toyota and assembled in the USA, its still a toyota. Be American, buy American, go to work and pay your taxes, take care of your family and let your judgement of others be out of the question. I want to live my life my way not the way of others, if I want a child, pet, gun or nothing, thats what I will do.
This is not ordinary people stockpiling and hoarding. I visited the local range last Saturday and there was one lonely person actually shooting. It occurred to me that although peeps may have been hoarding, that probably has to be offset by a lot less ammo flying downrange these days. Even the police and military are having trouble getting training ammo to send downrange.
I looked at a new Redhawk while I was there and asked the sales guys if I could rent a .44 magnum first. They told me they have three .44 magnums in the rental case — but no .44 magnum ammo. So the short answer was, “No”. Again, if peeps are sending a lot less downrange that has to be freeing up a lot of ammo. At this point shooters can’t possibly still be hoarding because there is nothing on the shelves to hoard. And if they aren’t sending it downrange and they aren’t hoarding..? Last year it was the Pirates of Wall Street and Washington, DC reaming us (okay, DC has been reaming us unceasingly for some long time). This year it’s someone(s) connected with the ammo chain. Someone(s) is(are) making a truckload of profit by pinching down the ammo supply.
You had better understand that you are responsible for your own safety..in your own home and everywhere else. Lose the idea of the police. They mean well and will do their best (mileage may vary) to get justice for you AFTER you are victimized. If you don’t want to be a victim in the first place..learn how to protect yourself and be proactive. You grass eaters ignor the message.
some of you people are the biggest red necks pull your heads out of hannitys ass listen to the world of big buisness, the factories played us demand went up they made a superficial shortage and presto changeo we have no ammo and when you can find it, its over priced
How are the criminals able to have more ammunition and resources to firearms than the ordinary citizen? Go figure.
The coming armed revolt referred to here is a joke. What do you think you’re going to do, face down tanks and missles with rifles and handguns. The real threat to civil unrest in the future will most likely be commodity shortages do to world demand. The conduct of people in the aftermath of Katrina in N.O. was enough to open my eyes. Even the cops turned on the citizens they were sworn to protect. People can turn into real animals when there is a shortage and I’m going to protect what’s mine because the cops sure as hell can’t.
That’s interesting…
Just my opinion… but I think missiles and tanks won’t be useful to the fed gov if there’s a revolt: too much collateral damage. Look at Baghdad going up in flames in the night in 1991. Even cruise missiles with “pinpoint accuracy” incur tremendous damage beyond intended targets. People who weren’t supposed to be taken out, wide-scale infrastructure damage, etc. We just didn’t hear a lot about it from CNN. Like nuclear weapons, they’d be largely impossible to use domestically.
But I think revolt is unlikely anyway. More likely is that the fed gov will slide into bankruptcy and from there it’ll be a short ride into the dumper. Some of the state/local govs would be more of a concern I think.
Just my opinion…
Is the shortage due to fears and hysteria about Obama being Pro No Gun. Or is it the simple supply and demand of manufacturing not keeping up with the Wal-Mart sell outs? Either way if there’s a mutney than you might think about going 12 guage, more availability, less restrictions same results.
Evade and Survive promotes gun control. “keep a steady aim” at EvadeAndSurvive.com.
I’m glad I have 40cal. handguns, as I am still able to usually find ammunition for them. I have not found 1 box of 9mm on the shelves since April.
I never owned a gun in my life (well, aside from the 22 bolt action rifle that belonged to my dad), but for some reason I felt a nagging “need” for one about April this year. I wasn’t aware of the ammo shortage, or that guns were now bringing over suggested retail. I went to the local range, which turned out to be only about 2 miles from my home. My wife and I both took a gun safety class. I bought a Glock 9mm. Now, I have found it very difficult to get ammunition. I also find it interesting that as a group, Americans must have “heard the call” much the way I did and bought guns and ammunition. No one told me to. No one suggested that anarchy was around the corner. It was just an uneasy feeling that I had in my gut. Now I’m glad that I acted. I’m also glad that I bought 1,000 rounds at the last gun show I attended as well. Maybe I’ll never need to use it, but I’m more comfortable that the gun sits loaded in a safe I can access in seconds if I need to. I shoot regularly when I can replace the ammo I use. Sometimes the shop has reloads – other times they just shrug.
I have joined the NRA (3 yr, considering lifetime) and have NRA stickers in the windows of my home. I intend to become an excellent marksman. Should the need come – I’ll be better prepared than most. Does that make me paranoid?? Maybe. But all paranoia is costing me is the price of the gun, the ammo, and my membership for unlimited use of the range 2 miles from my home. It is also resulting in my enjoyment of a new sport, and meeting some damn fine like minded people in my community that I might not otherwise have met.
Hello Campers,
Remember we are all in this thing together and organized revolution will have better and lasting results for our nation.
We need to do four things to save the nation.
Limit Congressional terms.
Totally outlaw lobbyists.
No riders or attachments on bills. (one thing at a time)
Drop all taxes on a gallon of gas.
Think about those four things.
It also amazes me that over the years some people keep wanting to test the second amendment. It says citizens can have arms. Duh!
Has anyone seen the proposed legislation on folding knives? 300 thousand plus Americans loosing their homes a month (prime rate borrowers now)Congress giving money to big corporations who move their factories to Brazil or China and these idiots are worried about guns and knives!
Keep your powder dry!
Ring in Terlingua
I was considering the ammo shortage and heard one of the excuses was the price of copper going up. Aren’t “red cents” made out of copper? How much copper does it take to jacket a bullet ? Couldn’t we get some sort of collection of pennies going for the small ammo corps who cater to citizen soldiers ??? Just tell all the Patriots and their kids to send in their pennies. We could call it “Common Cents for Patriots”
Ammo shortage ?????
You folks must all live in the city.
If your short on ammo its your own fault not anyone else.
end of story.
This article is well written and attempts to explain away the shortages in available ammunition however the truth is a bit more interesting. While our government continues to increase domestic spying and our civil liberties rapidly come under threat we hear our representatives were threatened with implimentation of Martial Law if they did not agree to the phased Economic Stimulus Plan.
Under the provisions of Martial Law, all stockpiled weapons, ammo, and food will be confiscated by specifically trained units. The clear shortages of ammunition illustrates the fact that these shipments are being redirected to these units that will be responsible for carrying out these duties. Once a national emergency is declared and martial law implimented these units will be alerted and receive their directives.
I think the people stocking up are merely expressing the fact that they feel disenfranchised with the current administration. When Bush was in power, it was “were moving to Canada” from the democrats.
The passive threat is interesting. But more so if the idea that society has failed you so that you need to take a base right (feeling safe) into your own hands. (Which both Canada and ammunition are supposed to do)
Personally, I think that while the minority of us are stocking up, we have nothing to worry about. (The internet can make any opinion seem popular) This does not become a problem until it is the norm and we reach a critical mass.
This belief system and behavior tree are stressful. Seeing bad guys in the shadows always is, and where the govt is concerned (everywhere, not just here) there are lots of shadows to flinch at. Add lots of weapons and ammo, and presto: confusion can equal death.
I lived in Great Britain for many years and they have no fear of the night time burglar who is going to force you to use your .357 on him. Because neither he, nor you, have a gun in the first place.
You have it good, its the same in most european countries (handguns at least).
But hey, gripping is always a lot of fun.
So does law enforcement purchase .22 cal ammo? It’s in short supply as well. I personally think there’s more to it than this article states. Funny we’re having a shortage and the liberals are pushing for tighter restrictions on the purchase of ammo.
The reason democracy has worked is because the people are guaranteed the right to arms, however the constitution does not guarantee the right to ammunition.
Therein lies the rub.
If China loans us any more money, we will have to put Alaska orup for colateral.
Truthfully, for all intent and purposes Texas already belongs to Mexico and has for years.
They just haven’t filled out the paper work yet.
.357 Mag is an endangered species, yet the cops and military sure aren’t firing revolvers in 2009. It’s exclusively used by civilians for personal defense and potentially handgun hunting if your have a long enough barrel on your gun. Also really fun for blasting away at targets.
I just wanted to add a couple more points that I forgot in response #261 above.
If you’re not yet an NRA member I strongly encourage you to become one. I sat on the sidelines for far too long myself. I finally joined the NRA three months ago and feel it was a great decision. Somebody had to stand up to the gun-grabbers.
I’d also strongly recommend that you contact your elected officials regularly on every single piece of gun-related legislation asking them to vote down anything that attacks gun rights and vote for anything in support of gun rights.
Very few Americans are aware of the stunning volume of gun-related legislation that comes up. It’s rarely reported in the media. GOA (Gun Owners Of America) has a wonderful mailing list that you can join and they will keep you up to date on everything that’s going on. They provide pre-written letters for you to send. You can even send them from their web site at their “action center.” It will even remember your name so that to contact your politicians with a pre-written letter you literally have to do no more than hit “submit”. Nothing could be easier.
It’s said the pen is mightier than the sword. Well, e-mails I think have some power too when every Senator gets several thousand of them from people who keep up to date with GOA (and you don’t even have to join to send the e-mails). It costs nothing but a few seconds of your time. An excellent investment when you consider what’s at stake here.
Howdy Folks. After reading a lot of hand-wringing mixed with anger and skepticism, I have to say……I like it!! Being lulled into self-assured complacency is poison to a free-people (someone is always ready to eat your lunch). For example, An aversion to unpleasant world events is why religious zealots named Mustafa easily out-witted our first-world keystone-cop aviation security with box cutters and obliterated a major financial focus (the Twin Towers)to a global audience. Forget about great oceans as a barrier to distant threats. The world has shrunk to the size of an ipod. The more cautious, concerned firearms owners that exist, the better! Like the 1940s’ fascist Japanese, any bureaucracy would be profoundly anxious about attacking a population saturated with arms as we are. Singapore was a tempting target for Japanese Imperialists because that population had roughly 6% firearms ownership. Dictators don’t like victims that shoot back! LOL
If the current president harbors nefarious intentions, surely he would be greatly frustrated knowing that fears of his election made personal gun-possesion an intractible proposition to eliminate (certainly in his two terms. Understanding that those people that want to live your life better(for you)fear an armed population, is key to avoiding the whole problem. The only way to empower nanny-despots, is to earnestly desire freedom from vigilance; trusting others to do your difficult decisions for you. And if you do that, you deserve what follows. IMHO.
Here in Los Angeles, CA. the supply of .25acp, .380auto and 7.62x39mm has simply evaporated. WalMart here no longer carries guns or ammo, and the gun shows were banned county-wide years ago. Fortunately there are some supplies still available via the Internet dealers (I’m not going to say which, you can search for yourselves) however that said, at the end of this month there will be a county-wide ban on such sales, the dealers will obviously not ship to destinations which enact such laws. Right now, people living within the L.A. City Limits can no longer buy ammo from the Internet dealers.
That was passed several years ago as well. My advice? Stock up if you can, get at least several hundred rounds for each weapon you own, or for each caliber. But also prepare yourselves with a “Bug Out Kit”; a sleeping bag, a tent, some backpacker’s dehydrated food stuffs, stove, flashlights, batteries, emergency water, radio – All the stuff you’ll need for an unexpected or an emergency relocation situation. We here in earthquake country know that the local emergency services people will NOT be able to assist us if the “Big One” hits! Those of us who’ve lived through several large quakes are mostly already prepared but the same sort of thinking might well apply to those of you living elsewhere. Being prepared isn’t paranoia, it’s just good planning coupled with common sense! And thinking back, it made sense to have bought that 5kw backup generator before the Northridge Quake..
Cheers All!
I would like to see an investigative journalist look into the possibility that the global bankers who control both parties of our pretend-democratic puppet show are buying all ammo factory output in preparation for the looming transition into a world government. Their activities in dismantling America have been accelerating rapidly, and this would be a perfect strategy for them; they can’t take our guns (yet), but they can just buy up all the ammo. After all, they just print money at the privately owned Fed and spend it with zero oversight.
The civilian run on ammunition reflects the general high level of anxiety over the federal government both functionally and ethically. We are coming out of a presidency that sent us to a war by mistake and whose reaction to an isolated emergency, (Katrina), showed that we didn’t have the resources to handle a catastrophe that affected only 1% of the population. We have 15(?) million illegal immigrants in the country with more arriving daily and the government has shown itself unable to stop the influx. The Wall Street meltdown showed that Congress had enabled venal financiers, by statute, to embezzle so many trillions of dollars that the stability of the entire nation is at risk. To protect national stability, the government gave them more trillions.
What we thought the United States was is morphing before our eyes into something unknown, but something without the qualities that made us proud to be Americans. We feel that we must, at least, protect our families from this unknown. Guns & ammunition are a prudent purchase. They will protect them from a few dangers but I think that we all realize that we are in danger from forces against which mere firearms will be useless.
I’m not the type to overreact to things, I did nothing special for Y2K, I felt certain it was nothing. This however is a situation that can rapidly deteriorate in to a full-blown disaster, one of biblical proportions as they say, it will not take much people are angry & scared. Ammo has recently begun appearing on the store shelves again here. Primers are also starting to become available again, thankfully, but the stores are limiting purchases. I’m now buying ammo for my shotguns it’s still out there & I figure there will be plenty of assault weapons & ammo lying around when this all comes to a head. I am a firm believer in basic self reliance & emergency preparedness, please don’t forget the basics & non perishables rice, beans, SUGAR, flour, MEDICINE etc, buy a water purification system of some kind (boil water alerts are all to common here & water stored for long periods will grow nasties.)
I’d like to make a personal observation about these neofascists in our current government, Hitler was a gun control advocate also an a great orator as well, he also rode a wave of public discontent to victory during a time of economic crisis, ever notice how Obama is on TV nearly daily even when he is supposed to be taking time off? (At least Obama smokes)
Off the subject, anyone out there given any thought to diesel generators & biofuel?
The Right to bear arms does not mean that you have to have a gun, it means that you can if you wish to, I think it a great idea, George Washington said: A Free People..ought to be armed. If an intruder came to my house, I would apply deadly force if applicable, if he surrendered, I would hold him at gun point until authorities arrived. There was a street fight on my street once, I witnessed it, everyone on my street called 911, took them 15 minutes to get there, by that time there were broken bones, and one guy was in horrible condition. Police, except in metropolitian areas do not respond quick enough to prevent situations in most cases. That’s why I have a Mossberg 500 Persuader.
Most interesting facts;
1. Ammunition manufacturer’s are producing as much if not more ammunition than before Obama became president.
2.Ammunition dealers and distributor’s aren’t receiving shipments.
3.Manufacturer’s wouldn’t be producing the ammo unless they we’re selling it.
Intersting questions;
1.If the ammunition dealers to the public aren’t receiving the ammunition, who is?
2.If the general public can’t get the ammo how can they be stockpiling it currently?
3.why aren’t the dealers to the public getting ammunition?
4.who is diverting or controlling the ammunition supply to or from the general public?
I am sure there are many other questions but it is late and I am tired.
Demand, certainly is part of the problem. But, behind the scenes, I suspect efforts are being made to slow down production, and bump up costs, by the same government that wants to disarm us. Ammo mfgrs used to acquire used brass from the military. Suddenly, just a few months ago, it now must be destroyed? Then shipped to China to be resmelted.
I saw this coming 20 years ago, luckily. When I picked up my .223, it was running about $80 for 1000 rnds. Now, it’s darn near $800! Supply and demand.
Revolution? Yeah, it’s coming. The fools running DC truly are stupid enough to think WE are stupid, and that they can get away with anything. Trust me, they will try something soon, that will trigger an explosion. Then we’ll clean house. Replace the entire government at once, with honest people.
Term limits, make lobbying a felony crime, punishable by death, just like treason, because it’s basically the same crime. A few tweaks to the old Constitution, to make it better, and really limit politicians.
Almost makes you wish for it to come!
Just a comment – We all know our governments can buy any factories they want with our money. And run them to their liking. And never go broke or run in the red. I’ve been told if they take away everyone’s guns and ammunition they very well will get the bullet first!! This isn’a death to AMERICA yet –Jihad!! We have laws to abide by — They all can be impeached and I like Peaches. When their food runs out given them, from the hard working farmers, They can go to work and see what it is like!! We know. The farmer takes care of their families themselves- They don’t get help from satan’s people. They get it from Jehovah and his son Jesus. These are the moral laws we are dealing with. ” That’s all Folks” May the Great White Spirit be here. We need now!!!
So basically the reason why nobody can find ammo is that a bunch of rednecks got scared that the gov’t was going to take away their assualt rifles so they are scooping up assualt rifle ammo and it spilled over into everything else? Personally I don’t see the logic behind owning an AK or an AR-15 or anything because lets be honest; its not for home defense and you aren’t out hunting game with it.
To be honest, I am stocking up for the apocalypse. I got real excited for the whole Y2K deal when I thought everyhting would come crashing down and there would be food shortages and god knows what else. I guess I’ll have to keep waiting.
You definitely need ammo protection. If you do not realize that our nation is at risk right now – follow the GOVERNMENT link below to see the testimonies of our top scientists and what they say about the threat of EMP. It basically reduces our lifestyle back to preindustrialization age for a period of time until we recover. If it wipes the entire US there is a high probability that 50% or more of our population die from starvation because we only have 3 days food supply in the food chain at any given time and the chain stops with the EMP. If this happens US citizens will be killing US citizens just to survive. This is just one scenario.
http://homeland.house.gov/hearings/index.asp?ID=206
This one contains a comprehensive summary.
As a guy who is most afraid of being left to the tender mercies of corporate America, I watch the pawns of the lobbiests, whitchever party they belong to. I’m to the left
socially, but yeah, I own guns, and even though I voted
democrat, nobody better try to lay thier mitts on my assault
rifle. We’re all americans. 51% hippy, 49% redneck here. Ratios are subject to change.
vivo is right, parinoid fools, go ahead spend your min.wage checks on ammo and stockpile it under your double wide. I am a Dem. and i own guns shocking. Pres. Obama won by a landslide and bush had a 22% aproval rating, you ppl are only a small fraction of America. You idiots that are worried about someone taking your guns are doing it to yourselfs dont you realize that. You blame everyone else for your problems and fears. Teabaggers take government handouts, liberals own guns too. You hate immigrants but forget your grandaddy came here on a boat. You go to church and pretend to be Christians, when you leave church you scoff at the first person you see not the same color as you. A revolution? stop and ask yourself why? hate gets you nowhere. By all means protect yourself and family but no one is taking your guns away relax.
Please ignore the idiot directly above me.
Here we are, a year after the first post, and still no .380 rounds to be had. I thought this was supposed to subside?
So, has Obama taken away your guns yet?
Has the great revolution happened?
No worries, I’ll check back in another year. (Neither one will have happened by then either.)
The CEO of Remington said a year ago that he opened the lines of ammo that was being out-of-stock in stores to 24/7 production lines. This is a lie, at least in the fact that none of this ammo is reaching any store, except in rare instances and incredibly tiny amounts. ANY ammo that would make a citizen comparable or better to authorities has been stopped (i.e. 7.62x39mm 165grain) to Wal-Mart and other big box stores, as well as outdoor stores. Please have an employee at the store of your choice to scan the out-of-stock barcodes and tell you when they received their last box. You will find out that they have not received it in any recent time period. Anyone with any additional info please e-mail me at guildsea@aol.com Thanks and try to use blogs and comments on other sites to try to get info out about this ammo shortage, as any recent discussion is being blocked by Google, Yahoo and other search engines (please try searches for yourself on these and you will find you can only bring up old and non-detailed discussions). Verify this and then ask yourself ‘why?’
Grandad fought in World War I; Dad served during World World II and Korea. One of Dad’s brother served in the Army in Europe in 1944, and another served in the Army during Korea. Dad’s younger brother Robert died in that jungle some called Nam. All of them were Democrats, and would roll over laughing in their grave if they heard what I heard today! Merchants throughout America are withholding selling bullets to those dummies who voted the two draft-doggers into office in 2004–the two idiots who allowed the largest attack on homeland soil ever. I got my first gun at age 10, and presently have plenty of guns and bullets, but of course I not stupid; did not vote for the two draft-doggers neither time.
True, Obama won’t be taking my gun…
…but it won’t be for lack of trying:
====================
CBSNews.com, February 26, 2009
Headline: Holder Revives Talk Of An Assault Weapons Ban
“Attorney General Eric Holder was busy announcing the capture of more than 50 alleged members of the notorious Sinaloa Cartel yesterday when he unwittingly stepped into a larger debate about gun control.
“Responding to a reporter’s question on weapons’ regulations, Holder said, ‘Well, as President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons. I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum.’
“Holder refused to speculate when legislation would move forward.
” ‘There are obviously a number of things that are — that have been taking up a substantial amount of [Obama's] time, and so, I’m not sure exactly what the sequencing will be,’ he said.”
….
====================
…ultimately however, it is true: neither Obama nor Holder will be taking my gun…
As to a rebellion, the U.S. government is more likely to collapse due to bankruptcy and corruption than to any sort of insurrection.
My husband and I went to a gunshow last week. The guy who we purchased from told us that the prices were going up because of all the people who freaked out when Obama got elected.
Thanks a lot nuts!!
Gun ownership is one of the cheapest forms of insurance available. Period. You don’t need to be an expert, and you don’t need to be paranoid. I don’t believe for a second that Obama is a socialist, or that Mexican cartels will stage a major invasion of the US. Most ofn the folks here clearly don’t know squat about what socialism, Marxism, fascism or communism really are – or they’d have called Bush a socialist for bailing out banks with taxpayer money.
Don’t listen to the fringe. Educate yourself with accredited, verifiable information from reliable sources.Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Things ARE getting out of hand, but the people you should really worry about are the loudest voices spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. (f someone doesn’t know the difference between “their”, “they’” and “there” – they probably aren’t a reliable source of information on anything of importance.)
The ri8sks of owning a gun in a household with small children are very real, and the dangers of conspiracy theorists stockpiling guns are well-documented. Be sane, be alert, and be responsible, and you’ll probably survive whatever comes – and if nothing comes of the mass hysteria and total lack of civility and decency apparent on this and other forums, you’ll at least be able to defend yourself against the lunatics parading their “patriotism” by flying a flag while on their way to cash their social security check because they’re afraid the evil banks will tell the government how much money they have.
The world will not end in 2012, the ammo shortage will be made moot by the increased manufacturing capacity which is being built right now, and those who think bullets will replace currency will just sink deeper into their delusion, regardless of the facts. Global warming really IS happening – just as it happened the last time around. (Europe was nearly 7 degrees warmer, wineries lined Vine Street, in England, and we remember that dreadful, suffocating era as The Renaissance.) I know, it’s not nearly as dramatic as Glenn Beck, Al Gore, or Sarah Palin, Rev. Sharpton – but it’s the truth.
Rhoadie,
What do you meanwhen you say “…and the dangers of conspiracy theorists stockpiling guns are well-documented.”?
I’m aware of Ruby Ridge and Waco. When else have a bunch of people been murdered by the government for owning guns?
Some kind of main event is comming, and it won’t be planned I’ll give you that. And being raised by depresion era parents, I know the value in stocking up on stuff including ammo. Trading ammo as currency is also smart.
In the end I just hope when your country impodes, you folks just sort it out without comming up here. Last thing we need is an invasion.
OPEN WAR , on sedona desert Arizona. Federal signs say keep out, danger. County cops, will not got there, remain outside of there own county.
Narcos shoot on seeing any one. Any place south of PHOENEX, Arizona , 80 miles to border belongs to south of border now.
Try to camp, fish , or hunt there and you will find mystery army shooting at you. resist and you die, try calling 911 your die.
Guest to owns this land now, not USA, not Arizona, not any simple citizen.
Just like 200 years ago, it shoot on site, take what you need, and wait for the next supply to arrive.
Forget about, the only good red man is a dead red man, today anybody seen is shoot on site. BP vehicles are ambushed.
Save the last round for the Mr. BIG NOBAMA who cares for you.
Milita of none, Kalifornia.
The ammo shortage is bullshit.
How hard is it to step up production of something as simple a bullets?
These ammo companies are just using “Obama” paranoia to increase their profits!
Because of a bunch of stupid rednecks, I have to scourer the earth to find 10mm ammo.
That’s fine, I’ve got plenty of other guns to protect my family when the hillbillies start marauding.
I just gotta remember to avoid wasting bullets shooting at their heads(nothing vitally important resides there)!
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