Murder on Falcon Lake (Updated: Witness Corroborates Hartley)
September 30, 2010, is the date that may force the federal government to deal with the U.S.-Mexico border. On that date, Texans David and Tiffany Hartley were jet skiing on Falcon Lake. Only Tiffany would return alive.
Dispatcher: Hello? Ma’am? Yes. Okay. Are you sure that your husband got shot?
Tiffany: Yes. In his head.
Dispatcher: Okay. Yeah. Was he thrown out of the jet ski that he’s in the water or something?
Tiffany: He was thrown off the jet ski and I couldn’t pick him up to get him on mine. (sobbing)
Oh God.
Dispatcher: Ma’am? Were you shot at on the Mexican side or on the US side? So it was the Mexican Side. Okay, did you see anybody?
Tiffany: There were three boats.
Falcon Lake straddles the Texas-Mexico border in a remote area between Laredo, TX, and Nuevo Laredo to the north and McAllen, TX, to the south. The Hartleys had stopped on the Mexican side of the lake to see the mission at Old Guerrero. Three boats belonging to pirates from the violent Zetas drug gang appeared out of nowhere and opened fire. The Zetas control the Mexican side of the lake and have turned it into something like a miniature version of the Somali coast, operating as pirates with near impunity. So far, Mexican authorities have questioned whether the shooting occurred, and have not allowed U.S. or Texas authorities in to search for Hartley’s body.
Up to September 30, the Falcon Lake pirates had never murdered Americans. But over the past several months, the Zetas have posed as game wardens and seized the boats of Americans enjoying the lake’s fishing. Having shaken down the fishermen for whatever valuables they had on board or on their persons, the pirates would let them go. And in June, authorities issued a very disturbing alert: The Zetas were plotting to destroy the Falcon Dam to strike out against a rival gang. That act had the potential to flood an area that is inhabited by about four million people.
But an uptick in violence was always inevitable: The Zetas are also involved in the civil war that has raged in Nuevo Laredo for the past several years. That war has seen everything from assassinations of public officials to bombings to beheadings to gun battles that leave neighborhoods looking like sections of Baghdad in the height of the Iraq war. I have cell phone video of the aftermath of a Nuevo Laredo gun battle that took place in July, but it’s so graphic that YouTube won’t host it. PJTV’s Brandi Milloy has hosted a terrific series on the Arizona border. This story from Al Jazeera English, about the assassination of a leading political candidate this year, gives some hints as to just how violent the drug war there has become.
Then again, it may NOT get Washington to address the violence on the border.
Remember: we’re discussing Holder’s DOJ [and] the Obama Administration here.
If Texas Rangers pursue that issue, Texas can expect a lawsuit from the DOJ.
If those ranchers were black instead of white I’m sure DOJ and the Obama administration would send the US Amry to the border within hours to secure it permanently…
very little doubt about that
“Savage” is neocon code for “brown skinned.” There is no proof any brown skinned savage committed any crime. This is most likely an insurance scam, fanning the flames of white bigotry.
“Savage” is neocon code for “brown skinned.”
Ridiculous. How dare you hide behind a fake name and accuse me of playing the race card? How dare you accuse the victim in this case?
Oh, I forgot: You’re a liberal. That’s just what y’all do.
Certain words have become politically incorrect, Bryan. “Savage” is one of them along with “retarded”, “gorked”, “idiot” etc. For many years when dealing with the Alice types we have just lumped them into a broader category labeled “Democrat”. Seems to avoid the problem and the Democrats for the most part aren’t bright enough to understand any negative implication and some even take it as a compliment. The other advantage is that the term doesn’t change with linguistic fashion such as Retarded –> Mentally Handicapped –> Intellectually Disabled –> who knows what next week.
Hey i got news for you . No mexicn drug gang was involve. The cops will use this and they know there where no drug gang invole. Iknow you are young and dont know abouut the real world yet. Why wude they want the body and why was she not hit and why woud they leva a winess behin.
Hey, I have some news for you too. I’m not as young as you seem to think I am, and I’ve been following the border wars story for years now. That doesn’t mean that I’m right and you’re wrong, but it does mean that I have some foundation for thinking that Hartley’s story is probably going to hold up. As for you, sir, what are “wude,” “winess,” “abouut,” “mexicn” and several other creative aspects to your comment? Because whatever they are, they aren’t words.
Um, not necessarily. My three-year-old and my five-year-old think that three of them are words, just not in the context that Douglas used them. He has a problem with context, not with his spelling.
Hey, Genius Douglas,
Learn how to spell before you spew ignorant rhetoric! Some of you are such complete morons, it’s no wonder “the one” got elected! Blame the idiots in the asylum for choosing the guards!
You should take a trip down here and find out…we could supply you with a jet ski of your own…
Map the way out for you.
Maybe they should destroy the dam..it could open an eye or two..wait..Mexican and American authorities??? forget it, they would just say it was an act of nature..or something stupid.
So far, Alice, you’re in first place for The Most Bizarre Comment Of The Day Award.
One of your sock puppets is giving you tough competition on another thread, though.
well, i think alice does this just to get a rise out of people…
In fact, your sock puppets, Porkov and lulz, are giving you tough competition on this thread, too.
They have to be the same person. The odds are astronomical that there could be three loony liberals here at the same time who are as sleazy as Alice and his two sock puppets are.
Anyone besides me think that Alice was being sarcastic and Brian, K.C. and Dianne didn’t get it?
In view of the tragic circumstances, Porkov, that would show that Alice has a sick sense of humor. The only way that your conjecture will be given any validity will be if Alice admits that she was being a smartass in bad taste. Until then, you should ponder the probability that you’re the one who just doesn’t get it. Comprende?
Get what, oh astute one? That Alice’s wisecracks were in bad taste? Yeah, we got it. Obviously, you didn’t.
Out of curiosity, which of the other two handles were you attempting to hijack to support yourself, Dianne?
Yeah, I was reading it as sarcasm too.
absolutely not….you have obviously not read alice’s other posts on other days..it’s always the same stupid drivel…sarcasm?..not with alice.
Alice has been around before. You are mistaken if you think she was not serious and attacking.
Surely you cant be serious …..
Yes I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley!
Alice
If this story turns out to be basically true, and in fact a tourist on a jet ski was murdered, savage, animal, pieces of s*** all fit the people that did this. You can call them your little brown brothers or what ever, but, if they did in fact kill this unarmed man they are animals.
Dear Ms. Wigglebrain.
Listen toots, I live on the border, just a quick drive down from Falcon Lake and you are so wrong. Who the hell do you think you are? Insurance scam indeed. You should be ashamed of yourself (but I doubt that you are.)
Actually the tern savages was first applied to American Indian which are Red Skinned of which I am one you stupid Bi…!
As a red skin and not a brown skin I take great offense to your comment and will only say that you need some education. American history would be a good start…they do not teach the truth in grammar school so you might need to take at least another 8 years to get up to speed!
Alice: In the English language, the word “savage” was used as an adjective to describe the type of murder that was committed. You know about adjectives, don’t you? It was not used as a noun, which is what you claim. These things are difficult for you to understand, aren’t they? Perhaps you would prefer that this blog provide translations into your native language.
This is what Alice does. She/he/it runs in drops a load of crap , and runs away again. just don’t answer her when ever you see her name. She goes by a couple of others and you will recognize her words and thoughts.
Just don’t answer her and her dumb@$$ remarks
Alice, where do you come up with this crap? If there was a brain in your head, you could not possibly believe what you are spewing. My thought is that you have no ability for critical thinking, especially for yourself. If you have a brain, it is not a fully functioning brain for sure. I believe “thinking” for yourself is something you are just incapable of doing.
Do you have proof, other than your imagination, that the person who used it is a neocon?
‘Alice’ is a troll.
She/he uses a few different user names and posts, often times with the copy and paste function. These posts are accross the net blogs from WND to the alphibits. Because of the enormous amount of posts… I say they, have one agenda: To disrupt/sidetrack the given topic… by interjecting hatred of some sort.
Best results are not to reply and just ignor.
I think I’ll copy and paste this for ease.
you are a fool
Alice you are an idiot. get on the short bus and go to the clinic.
Their savage murder of a Texas man may force Washington to finally address the violent border zone.
Wanna bet?
Our Harvard and Yale educated elites visit Cancun every other year and know the Mexican boarder is just fine.
Cancun is way to gauche for the Ruling Class. They would not be caught dead there, it’s for tourists, don’t you know. The Ruling Class go to Cabo San Lucas, if they go to Mexico at all, and that doubtful.
Read this, its scary as far down as Playa Del Carmine… you see it around you, you just don’t look, always smile and stay off the side streets…for now.
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS
Visit our website: http://www.nafbpo.org
Foreign News Report
NOPE!!!
The DOJ and DHS is full of racists liberals so, my condolences to his widow but there will be no Justice for him, he’s a white guy.
Don’t you get it yet? Washington does not care about We The People. Not until there’s a crisis they can manipulate to put through another diktat that takes away more freedom and empowers them more.
We are living in the era of the extinction of ‘reason’ and ‘common sense’.
I beg to differ with you, washington does care about we the people. Wash. is very upset that someone who pays taxes will not be continued.
We get warnings about travel dangers in Europe, but not at the border.
The federal government approach invites vigilante groups down there, people and property are at risk. Then the feds will go after the vigilantes, not the border problems.
In the spirit of bipartisanship and reaching across aisle to the opposition, I would like to invite Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano to go fishing with me on Falcon Lake. Perhaps we will even meet some of our charming neighbors to the south who, when they are not slaughtering the honest citizens of Mexico and each other, are only too willing to ply their trade on Americans.
In all seriousness, we need to put a gunboat on Falcon Lake and start hanging anyone engaged in piracy. Time for the rebirth of the Texas navy.
First let me assure you that I am in no way a liberal. I consider myself to be somewhere to the right of El Rushbough. With that said, I do not rule out the possibility that the story of Mexicans shooting the man to be a fabrication. Think of the quality of the story as an alibi… I don’t think that it is but it’s possible. As far as the gun boat and hanging the pirates, why would, or should, they survive to be hung? Waste of rope…
Even if the entire story turns out to be a fabrication or even an attempt to cover up a murder, we still know from previous incidents that there are pirates operating on Falcon Lake.
I admire your committment to the conservation of rope. Hangings however are a ghastly deterent to future pirates.
My condolences to Tiffany and to David’s family. What a tragedy.
Amen to that! Washington does not care. Especially because he is white.
Nope, the US will close the international lake to all people on the American side of the border.
No one not a Mexican citizen would be allowed on the lake.
The Falcon lake will then become a not an International lake but a Mexican only lake.
Think not?
Wait and see.
Why is Texas begging Obama for help? Doesn’t Texas have Rangers and State Troopers? Surely Texas can afford patrol boats to guard Americans on American territory. Come on, Perry, get with it.
It’s an international border, more a federal than a state responsibility.
It might be an international border Bryan but the Texas part is still subject to laws of Texas and they have jurisdiction in all of Texas not just the land parts!
It is also a federal law concerning robbing banks so should any state city or county law enforcement 0fficer not attempt to enforce the law against robbing a bank. The immigration argument is a bad one and I am not even an attorney and as any governor I could trump the Federal government by saying that none of my law enforcement officers will enforce any law that is in place until you start enforcing the one I disagree with you about especially the Arizona law!
This is a game that can be played by the states against the new federal administration and put a real stop to Obama and Holder! Think about that for a whie!
I agree Steve the border states could and should refuse to help or work with the DOJ, FBI and DHS. until the border is secured and illegals rounded up for deportation. San Francisco can ignore Federal laws concerning drugs and illegals while still betting federal money. The border states can learn a lesson from the leftwingnuts.
Which means “nothing”..absolutely nothing will get down!
I have zero confidence that our pathetic, incompetent, politically correct federal government will do anything about this murder.
dont hold your breath…not this administration…not this president…not these people
First of all, my condolences to the family of this man. I DO know of the danger of going out to this lake because I live in a neighboring city from this lake, but a lot of what the wife mentions is questionable. HOW was she able to evade 3 boats with cartel men, while trying to supposedly save her husband? Not one bullet hit her, nor did it hit her jet ski. These men aim to kill. She seems so calm in her interviews, and can remember detail by detail. Again, my condolences and I do not wish this on anyone, but something does not sound right. She even mentioned that they knew the danger there exists, so why go?
To anyone thats ‘been there, done that’ … this does look like the ol ‘dope deal gone bad’ scenario: He cruises up to make the exchange, she hangs back a ways, and blamb.. they want the dope, money and highly prized jet skis. Even with medium barrel length automatics, its a tuff act to hit a stationary target at 50 meters from a moving small boat… let alone a somewhat small moving target. They wouldn’t care about no damn witnesses… they’d of wanted the other jet ski, intact!
But, we all know a lot of the best drama actors are women.. and, most don’t live in Hollywood. ( not knocking, just personal experience ) However, even given those standards, watching this woman.. my gut says NO ACT HERE. And with all deductions run their course… and given that these people have as much value on life, as they view their own.. (more than just real cheap down there). They live and die, day to day. Now the jet skis? There’s a goldmine motif to these people, an opportunists dream come true…two nice jet skis, and maybe some money… 10 or 15 miles offshore.
The horrible crime committed against David Hartley, and the fighting in Nuevo Laredo, definitely shows that parts of Mexico are really screwed up. However, the article doesn’t make a case that the violence has spilled over to the US side to a significant degree. I think some crime statistics for Laredo compared to other towns in the US would be helpful.
This looks like a big lake but that does not preclude the use of mines (clearly identified). In fact if you want to solve our border problem use land mines too. End of story. Saludos.
I don’t think a lot of the country is aware of the extent of the border problems and what they foreshadow for the rest of the country. I just returned from a lunch in which part of the discussion centered on a business partner living in a nice suburb of Monterrey. Well, he just decided to move to Houston because his kids can’t play outside for fear of kidnapping and other crimes. This violence is coming our way, or is already here for those on the border. And the Zetas aren’t worried about Obama or Big Sis. Obama and Big Sis will spend billions making it a pain to fly, but leave the door wide open down here. Fortunately, Fort Hood isn’t that far. I predict the next administration will be forced to take military action (in coordination with the Mexican military or at least through drones) on Mexican soil because Obama is not facing the problem now.
Betcha the victim, David Hartley, will be voting for Democrats on the ballot in Texas in November. That wasn’t meant to be satirical. I’m quite serious.
Houstonian, please do not mistake Monterrey with Laredo or Mc Allen which are bordertowns. Unless you actually live here, the way I live in Laredo, and have relatives in Mc Allen, you cannot speak for us. Yes, I strongly agree that the violence is horrible in Nuevo Laredo, but unless you are directly involved with those people, you really don’t have anything to worry about here. We do not cross into Mexico at all, but we do feel safe here.
I have had friends there (Laredo)report a rising level of concern. Yes they say you should not have to worry about being targeted, but they worry that the Zetas violence may hit bystanders. Further, that’s how it developed in Mexico – initially the violence was directed at just other dealers, but then it grew to what is happening today. I miss the days of casually driving down to visit and shop the border.
I agree.
We have family who live along the border, and have for many years…who do not..not..feel as safe as 18 says. We have family that are moving because of all this .
I am a resident of Laredo, and I agree wih reply to Houstonian. The violence here is NOT as bad as in the bigger cities. Unless you live here as me and others do, your info is second hand. My family is here and if it was as terrible as you say, we would all be moving as the people from Nuevo Laredo are. Our city is growing daily. I also wish the population was as it was before, but nevertheless it keeps growing. The danger is across the border, and unless you are involved with those people, you are just as safe here as anywhere else. FIRST HAND INFO.
Blue sky dreaming, but, what if Texas built a fence say, I don’t know, 2 miles in from the border and manned it with an indigenous force? Could the Federal Government do anything about it?
I know this is not going to be a popular opinion–and that’s all it is, an opinion– and forgive me for being a cynic, but I don’t belive Tiffany Hartley. Her interviews, replete with unconvincing tears, are too pat and nearly the same word-for-word each time she relates her story. Why were they jet-skiing in a lake already known to have had troubling trans-border incidents anyway? It could–and I emphasize the word could–have been an insurance scam to conveniently have her husband “disappear” at the hands of “pirates”, only to wait for his wife to join him months after the cash pay-out in Mexico…or, not unlike the scuba murder of the American bride in Australia, perhaps David Hartley was murdered by his spouse. Apparently I am not alone in thinking this way; authorities on both sides of the border are not thoroughly convinced that the events as described are entirely factual–in other words, there is some skepticism regarding Tiffany Hartley’s story.
I TOTALLY AGREE with Sad but Questionable and jonnot!!! I think this lady is lying. If the “pirates” really killed her husband, she would be dead as well. How the heck was she able to escape from being hit by all of those bullets???? Wonder Woman or what??? IT’S A SCAM
Hey “social conservatives”, how’s that drug war working for ya?
This sort of thing is exactly what your “war on (some) drugs” has brought us: empowerment of Al Capone del sud.
Gee, thanks for 70 years of failed policy!
Oh please – another lackey from the Left speaking out his …. I speak only for this social conservative, but I’ll call it a “drug war” when I read of A10 Warthogs blowing some drug lords to kingdom come on Mexican soil, with a collective finger at Felipe de Jesús Calderón if he makes a complaint. I might even send him a bill for our troubles if he whines too much.
When I see that and the war still continues, look me up and I’ll grovel to you. Until then, take it back to KKKos.
High-fives to ya. That’s tell’n em.
Anonymous is quite right. It is hard to call the lukewarm action against drugs a war for several reasons.
1. The rules of engagement are absurd and benefit the enemy more than law enforcement.
2. Selective law enforcement and lax punishment once caught hardly equals a war footing.
3. Unwillingness to strike at the enemy and his supply lines directly.
4. Even with that all being said, the problem is on the Mexican side not on our own.
If the war on drugs was a true war fought as we once fought wars, then it would look a lot different. First, we would not catch and release. Second, we would declare an invasion and mobilize accordingly. Thrid, we would seal the border and then attack the supplylines and suppliers directly.
Personally I am sick of calling everything a war when we have no intention of fighting it as a war.
Right on point and it might be necessary for vigilante justice to prevail! I keep sharpening my second amendment rights to self defense with guns quite more frequently, but sometimes I tire of the cumbersome weapon(s) that I have and can legally carry.
The only problem I have with this whole thing is why with a jet ski could not these two people have escaped the “pirates” on the water?
Were they at anchor or on shore of Mexican property? I would like to know the answers to this before making any judgment of the case! It is possible that the wife shot and killed her husband and then came ashore with a story about “pirates” doing the deed after tossing the weapon into Mexican waters.
Why did they go into a lake where they knew there might be bad actors? Can anyone answer these questions first before making any kind of judgment?
I agree. Democrats and Republicans in D.C. alike have been lazy, self serving cowards. They have been taking the easy way for years. Bush may have been slightly different than Obama but no more concerned with security. A pox on all of them. I hope citizens are not forced to fend for themselves on the boarder, but it is stupid to depend on trolls like Holder and Obama for help.
Yeah, right, like we were seeing the violence on the border during the Bush Administration that we’re seeing there now during the Obama Administration.
Get real.
1.) Bush had a [much] better rapport with the people of Mexico and with that country’s president than Obama has ever had with the people of any country and with any other country’s leaders. Unlike that putz, Obama, who alienates everybody and who is viewed by everybody as a decadent dilettante and as an unprincipled wussy and as a street hustler, Bush spoke their language in more ways than one, and they liked and respected Bush, which raises another issue.
2.) After Bush stepped up to the plate and did what had to be done in Afganistan and in the Phillipines, and even before Iraq was invaded, you can be sure that the leaders of drug cartels in Mexico were changing their underwear and having Imodium AD cocktails every day at five o’clock. (Just as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Muslim clerics in Iran were surely doing every day, also.)
3.) Bush kept your sorry ass safe for eight years. Don’t forget that …, and oh BTW, may I remind you that our economy didn’t tank and unemployment didn’t begin to climb and our debt and deficit didn’t begin to soar out of control until MORE THAN A YEAR AFTER the Democrats took over control of Congress and spending in January, 2007.
So cut Bush some slack, I would LOVE to go back to our position before Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obame, Eric Holder and Hillary Clinton screwed up everything in this country and around the world, also. THEY are a disaster, NOT Bush. So leave Bush out of it. With your irresponsible comments, you’re playing right into the hands of the sleazy MSM and other sleazy Democrats. (Never mind that your ignorance is stunning.)
I hear you jonnot, but I’ve seen Mrs. Hartley on TV a couple of times now and she comes across as convincing to me. You may turn out to be right; we’ll see. As for her “pat” story, well, the authorities have complained a little bit that she has confused the details a few times. I chalk that up to the stress of the situation, but however you choose to see it, it’s not a “pat” story. I’m not at all buying the Mexican authorities’ take, that they haven’t found any evidence. It’s well known that there is massive corruption within the Mexican government, and it’s very possible that the pirates themselves have hidden any evidence that there might be. They would certainly find the jet ski valuable.
If this story turns out to be a hoax, I’ll be among the first to say so. But from what I see right now, it fits what we already know has been going on around Falcon Lake.
Massive corruption is an understatement. Along the border Mexican police and military are far more likely to be in the pay of drug cartels than the Mexican state. And while Napolitano continues to ignore the situation this has been an ongoing campaign of regional terror for a long time. There have been drug snipers shooting into Santa Elena canyon to the west and safe havens in colonias all along the Rio Grande. What part of this is not threatening.
Jonnot,
I hope you’re wrong. But I have such little faith in the honesty of the cumulative society anymore, I too share your suspicion. However, I refuse to allow my skepticism to not believe the woman. I think the prudent thing to do is first accept her story as factual and work from there.
And if true, I simply can not comprehend why we wouldn’t send in the big guns to end this charade. I don’t give a damn how well armed these Mexican pirates are. They are not going to match up with a AC130 gunship, Predator drones or few thermobaric bombs attached with laser guided technology. Drop a damn daisy cutter in their midst. Cheap and guaranteed effective – tell the Mexican gov’t to try and stop us.
Kill these b*stards and kill them now. When are we going to learn these threats go on until we brutalize terrorists to the point they are so shellshocked, they tremble at cricket sounds?
The local police have serious doubts about Mrs Hartleys story and are looking into case as one in which she may have murdererd David Hartley.
1/They have not found hid body despite the fact that he was wearing a life vest–so he would continue to float and be quite visible.
2/They have not found his jet ski— which would also continue to float
3/There are serious inconsistencies in Mrs Hartleys story
It may be a domestic murder, it may be an insurance scam or it could be a narco terrorist killing—- we do not know at this point
Victor, apparently, you didn’t see Segi Gonzalez Zapata County Sheriff, who verified thru 3 party eye witness’ that she is telling the truth about being chased as she fled. Boats have been stolen for yrs on Falcon and a Jet ski would be a double bonus. Those boats (including trailers) have never been found. Yes I have seen her interviews and yes there are discrepencies, but I’ll be honest I would have been just a teeny bit rattled knowing the likely hood of getting her husbands body back is next to nill. Do you really think that the drug dealers/terrorist/ robbers/ kidnappers are going to let his body float?
DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WOULD LET HER GET AWAY?????????
Supposedly she was being shot at. What a woman dodging all those bullets!!!!!!
SCAM, SCAM, SCAM
Hmm, I agree 150% that there is more to it. It is a well known fact that we are “under siege” in our own backyard. However, this story does not fit the M.O. 1st of all, the stories I’ve heard about drug cartel, they are ruthless and would not think twice about killing anyone, yet this woman claims to have plead for her life and these thugs let her go just because. Another thing, what items of value could they have had, the jet skiis??? Then why not kill her for her ski. There is more to this story that meets the eye, this couple lived in Reynosa for 2 1/2 years so how could they not know what is going on, on the border, Why did she wait a whole week before filing her formal complaint to Mexican authorities. I’m not an expert but there are too many holes in her story, if she has nothing to hide or fear, she needs to come clean and not hold back.
This really tells you the problem we have at the border. One question, is ok for Americans to go to the Mexican side and the other way around and have there been any instances where the pirates have fired toward the American side? If no, it seems like that demaracation line is deterring them but they basically have free reign on the other side of the border.
Interesting. Regardless of whether this particular incident is not what it seems, it remains true that particularly vicious thugs (is that nicer than ‘savages, ‘ Sweet Little Alice Blue Gown?) are infesting the borders and must be controlled. Oh yeah, war on drugs stuff, sorry your dope smoking is still a criminal offence, pal. But if it makes you feel any better, these thugs would just have some other M.O., count on it. They are not some libertarian warriors championing your right to get high, they are gangsters who profit from crime, and if it wasn’t pot it would be something else. Or are you advocating re-legalization of cocaine and opium as well? So get down off Hi-ho,Sanctimony! and engage in some grown-up dialogue.
“engage in some grown-up dialogue.”
You mean the kind where you make broad assumptions on the basis of about 100 words, proceed from those assumptions to set up some straw men, and then quixotically bowl them over?
Yes, that sort of “grown-up dialogue” is very enlightening…:rolleyes:
Oh yeah, have any of the o-so-compassionate lefties actually blamed the victim himself yet? They will.
This is such a tragedy on many levels and is, I hope, the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back and the federal government is FORCED into finally confronting our dysfunctional border situation. But, sadly, I don’t think this is going to happen.
I believe that the United States is eventually going to have to send the military to Mexico to bring stability and order to the country. And, if the current bleed over we are seeing in our border states is only a small sample of what the people of Mexico are living with every day on a large scale, the decision to send in the military will have to be made. The forces of evil currently have such a strangle hold on Mexico working with corrupt government officials and the Mexican military is such a threat to our national security that to not send in the United States Military could be considered dereliction of duty on behalf of our elected officials.
Ummmm, is it just me, or is anyone else questioning why Americans would deliberatelly go to these places and put themselve in these situations? I’m seeing more and more headlines about Americans kidnapped and/or disappeared in places like Cabo san Lucas or Tiajuana or just about any place south of the border you want to name.
If someone chooses to go hiking on the border of Iran and gets nabbed by the mad mullahs for pawn usage, then we get upset for them doing a stupid thing that puts their country in peril to try to get them out of it. Same thing with Mexico — if we *know* that Mexico is dangerous, then why go there to begin with? And I really don’t want to hear about how cheap it is to live or vacation then.
If you want to go jet-skiing where pirates are KNOWN to be pirating for the last few years, then isn’t that a Darwinian life choice that you’re making all by your own little stupid self?
It’s been getting bad and dangerous, little by little and over the years, NahnCee – all along the Border. The ranchers who have properties along the Border have been living with all sorts of constraints and threats for years. But it never makes the national news. Just in the last couple of years, American military bases (Pendleton and Ft. Huachuca for example) have put those cities on the Mexican boarder off-limits to military personnel.
Last year, I went with some snow-bird friends of a friend over to a little burg called Progresso, just over the boarder from the McAllen-Harlingen axis. It’s a little town, and as of last year, fairly safe … but we took care to stay within the shopping district, and to beat-feet back to the American side before dark. I just don’t know if it will be safe enough next spring to do it again.
Another note: more and more middle-class Mexicans are coming north to a second-home refuge, because it has gotten so ugly, south of the Border. I knew a Spanish-speaking real-estate agent through a local networking luncheon group in San Antonio, whose clientele were mostly well-to-do Mexicans looking for a second home in the San Antonio area. There was also one particular up-scale gated suburb north of town which was especially favored, because the well-to-do could go around without body-guards, 24-7. They could have something like a normal suburban life.
Finally, there have been recent incidents of Mexican citizens (I think the latest one was a reporter) who have actually come over to the American side asking for political refuge, because the drug-gang violence has gotten so horrendous.
Expecting justice from Eric Holders Justice Department is equivalent to putting your savings in the hands of Bernie Madoff. Securing the border is not part of Obama’s game plan. Other than to use it to further his radical agenda. If he walks like a Socialist, and talks like a Socialist, and he surrounds himself with Socialist and anarchist, then I say he is a Socialist.
There is a witness who watched the woman being pursued a mile into the US side of Falcon Lake. So the chances of it being staged are slim. But gads man, didn’t they read the paper or watch the news? The Mexican “drug war” is a festival of depraved bloodletting, wholesale slaughter and destruction on a scale with active war zones. So why travel anywhere in or around Mexico? It simply isn’t safe.
The Mexican government is as full of ineffectual peacocks today as they were 150 years ago. They will not help defend tourists unless they’re in clearly defined areas like Cancun or Acapulco. It blows my mind that anyone from this country still travels to Mexico.
It is interesting though, now that I think about it, just how much Obama reminds me of Santa Anna: the strutting, grandiose lifestyle, deals cut that are bad for his people but make him seem powerful, and dismissal of critical input as dangerous. Although, the peacock general did have a very pretty wife.
What Texas and the other border states need to do is arrange for the respective State police forces to have exclusive jurisdiction over any crimes committed against foreign nationals in their states. And then they can make it a policy to refuse to investigate or pursue any charges if the victims are here illegally. It would be like the inverse of the “sanctuary cities,” instead it would be on a state wide level.
What it would say to those who would cross the border illegally is that once you do so you can be killed, raped, robbed, or whatever and the authorities won’t do one thing about it. And this would draw the Predators like flies. The Feds don’t have to enforce their own laws if they don’t want to, or they can just decide to do it selectively. At least that’s their position. Fine, Texas, and other states can opt to enforce their laws selectively too.
Yes, illegal immigrants, the Feds won’t stop you from coming in, but the State people won’t lift a finger to protect you once you’re here. And because of this there are a lot of really bad people who eagerly wait for prey to come across the border. Good luck with the land sharks amigos.
Thats already the unwritten policy on Staten and Long Island in NY…but because the “predators” are black, its all good.
This situation has been ongoing for awhile now. There have been flyovers of American territory by Mexican military planes, various confrontations with boaters and fishermen on the lake itself and even a crudely ineffective bomb placed at the base of Falcon Dam. As for the whole “savages” straw man argument, residents on both sides of the lake are largely Hispanic. In reality, anyone who perpetrates such a crime is savage regardless of their ethnicity. It’s not a code word, it’s a description.
“I know this is not going to be a popular opinion–and that’s all it is, an opinion– and forgive me for being a cynic, but I don’t belive Tiffany Hartley.” – Jonnot @ #20
Popular opinion, phooey. You raised issues which I hadn’t considered. Thank you.
Sure, she COULD have shot her husband in the head and hightailed it back to America. But lacking other evidence, I doubt it. Was the man insured for millions? Nope. Is a Jet-Ski worth that much? Nope. Is it incredibly difficult for a lightweight woman to haul 200 lbs of dead weight (pardon the pun) out of the water from a jet-ski, even without bullets flying? Yep. Do Mexicans rob and kill Americans on the border with some frequency? yep. The simplest explanation is probably the most likely here. Although why anyone would go into Mexican waters is beyond me.
Wouldn’t the simplest solution be the best? Why not simple take the profit out of the Drug trade? Legalizing all drugs would pull the carpet out from under the cartels. William F. Buckley was an advocate of drug legalization. Once on his show ‘Firing Line’ he asked then head of the DEA why no one sells six packs of Budweiser to elementary school kids…answering his own question, he said “Because there was no profit in it!”
Drug legalization would defund the criminal elements of both the Mexican drug cartels and our urban inner city youth that now choose the life of drug dealing over education and work.
When a 13 year old can make a couple hundred bucks a night, selling dope on a street corner, there is no incentive for him to mow yards, flip burgers or learn a work ethic where he must respect authority.
Let’s heed Buckley’s advice and take the profit incentive out of the equation.
Do what the Dutch did. By making the distribution of drugs a government monopoly at subsidized prices (heroin $3) all profit was removed from the street and crime disappeared. The parks in Amsterdam are now much safer at night. The clinics are clean and sterilized, reducing health problems drastically.
lulz
Out of curiosity, which of the other two handles were you attempting to hijack to support yourself, Dianne?
October 6, 2010 – 2:54 pm
Huh??? I don’t have any idea what you meant by that snotty remark. Care to explain it, if you can?
TRUE!!!! Something sound very fishy in Mrs. Hartley’s story!!!!!!
Her story is too fishy. I think there are 3 possibilities: 1) She killed him. 2) Drug deal gone bad. 3) Life insurance scam.
Lets add a 4) oil theft scheme gone awry. Wasn’t a Houston-area energy firm found last year to have been paying cartel members for crude oil pilfered from PEMEX pipelines? Hubby could have trying to negotiate a similar deal.
That said, this case should be investigated to its fullest. It could be that this set of pirates is far too politically savvy to have created a blond martyr and hence let her live.
While I can certainly understand the skepticism as to Mrs. Hartley’s story, other aspects seem genuine.
It is also noteworthy that a 3rd party witness has now come forward and conformed her story as per the aspect of being chased by Mexican pirates.
Either way, there is certainly a problem of crime and official Mexican corruption, and since the Mexican government appears to be sweeping this under the rug, my cynical side is against the corrupt officials that dominate most all levels of Mexican government all the way to the top
IMO, the ones guilty of this crime (or at least in part) are those who buy drugs that keep these drug gangs in business as well as the American tourists that spend even 1 penny in Mexico, further propping up this corrupt nation (& I mean the Nation politically speaking, not the people)
I saw her interviews and my gut feeling says she is holding back information.
More than 6,000 murders in the past two years in Juarez alone and you compare the activity of Mexico’s drug cartels to inner city crime in the U.S.? Some of you must be living in a bubble.
So trajic for the family and wife, and that’s that. Too many questions: why even go to this lake, why are so many who live around there or visit the area not aware of “pirates”, why is the lake a spot for “pirates” in the first place, why hasn’t any group or residents put up more information, why do thugs kill for the sake of bloodshed… etc. OH, and, why is it that it’s only the USA that would be concerned and want to do something about drug cartels… too many unanswered questions and no concrete answers.
WE need to stop fighting amongs our selfes after all we are all Americans. WE need to find a solution for securing our border with mexico and stop illegal immigration.If they want to come to this country they need to do legally. There is some people that dont agree and that is because they have something to gain. They are involved with drugs weapons money or cheap labor and blood is a high price to pay for this no matter what race.
The President’s Plan to Stop illegal immigration: Allow illegal aliens to flood across the border, then send out harshly-worded letters to anyone who might consider hiring them.
Yes, you read that correctly. Instead of actually preventing illegal aliens from crossing the border and instead of raiding the businesses where they work, President Barry Hussein is taking a different path. He’s sending harshly-worded form letters to businesses that might violate immigration laws. (As an aside, that sounds a lot like profiling to us.)
The dreaded letters are called I-9 forms. And employers are supposed to fill one out for every worker and keep it on file.
Homeland Security says Immigration & Customs Enforcement has already sent “Notices of Inspection” to 652 businesses this year, a big increase over the 503 notices issued all of last year.
We assume this harshly-worded letter was written by the same folks who sent a harshly-worded letter to Kim Jong-Il. And we all know how well that worked.
I would like to believe her, but who goes sking in Falcon Lake, ok maybe a few, but most Pirates take more than JetSkis….my take, a drug deal gone bad, she did it, he faked his own death, and Pirates usually don’t leave a witness, they take them and ask for ransom…insurance does not pay without a body….I wish a body language expert would look at her as she was telling her story, her mouth had a smirk to it…something is not being told….
Alice Wigglebottom you are a moron.
I GOT IT, IT GOT IT, I GOT IT!
The murder was actually committed by space aliens, trying to hide the fact they’re building a sooper-seeekrit city, underneath the lake, from which they will emerge to conquer earth. They shot the guy, made it look as if the cartels did it, and used their mighty mental powers on the wife, to make her think it wasn’t really them.
WATCH THE SKIES!
(Sheesh, I’m amazed at all the would-be Sherlock Holmses, and mind readers, with their “gut feelings” here. Seriously, leave the amateur detective stuff out of this. Gut feelings are only good for telling you it’s time for lunch.)
“Hmmmmmm,” said the blogsphere detective, scratching his head, “My gut feelings tell me—I shouldn’t have had anchovy pizza with chocolate sauce for lunch! It’s all too pat! Mrs. Hartley’s tears seem all too pat! And it looked as if she has pointed ears, under her hair-do! And what about the Atavakron, hidden in their bedroom? And the ray gun lying on the beach near the lake, with “MADE IN TAIWAIN” inscribed on the side? It all looks like a set-up, or, maybe, an invasion of mushroom men, from the planet ^^^^^^! And why would drug cartels shoot at people? They never do that, no, never! Well, hardly ever!”
With these profound words, and scratching his head, so that dandruff fell like snow across his leather trenchcoat, to have a dinner of fried muchrooms on French toast.
(I think a lot of people are missing the point of what really happened here.)
Dear Ms. BettyBlue,
Unless you live by the border you would know and understand that noone would have been left alive by these people. You sound very air-headed and naive and seem to believe any story anyone tells you. Wake up lady!!!! Some people lie and this lady seems to be one of those liars. WOW! She was never hit in a shower of bullets!
The blogsphere detective belched, and scratched his stomach, silently cursing the grilled octopus with weenies he’d had for lunch. He went to his file cabinet, pulled out a bottle of whiskey, drank a glass down, and proceeded to ruminate.
“It is a well known fact,” he said, chasing a roving pigeon off his windowsill, “That human beings sometimes lie! Why was the woman never hit by a shower of bullets? As we all know, drug cartels NEVER miss a target! However, as is also well known, they never attack American tourists, indulge in violent attacks or cross the American border! It is air-headed and naive to believe otherwise! They can’t have intended to blow up the dam, just to get back at a rival gang! Nor can they have killed those two other American tourists on the border. I have it on good authority that those Americans were taken away in a giant dirigible, with PROPERTY OF ALICE WIGGLEBOTTOM painted on the side! But who set them up? The platinum blonde? Talking dolphins? The mysterious Dr. Vodak? Professor Plum in the Conservatory, with a candlestick? Who’s behind all this?”
The Blogsphere detective continued to ruminate, as pigeons flocked about him, and settled on his head. . .
(With all due respect, “Reply”, you and all the other amateur detectives are still missing the point.)
The Blogsphere detective finished his breakfast of cocktails, and mallowmars, and leaned back in his chair.
“Some might say,” he mused, “That it is the violence, breaking out in Falcon Lake, and along the Mexican border, that is the real problem here; that, whether or not people lie, or lie all the time, or lie only part of the time, is not the point; that, whether or not this was a drug deal gone wrong, or a case of an innocent being murdered; whether the cartels actually missed Mrs. Hartley, or that she moves really fast—it is disturbing that the drug cartels feel so very free to operate out in the open, on an American lake—never mind all that stuff about their trying to blow up the dam, or the other Americans, with no connection to the Hartleys, who were murdered! Some would say this indicates we have a real problem on the border, and should do something before the violence escalates.”
The Blogsphere detective lept to his feet! “But that’s all too pat!” he cried, making a paper airplane, and tossing it towards the ceiling, “I like the space aliens story, better! It’s more FUN!”
He then spent the rest of the afternoon shooting plastic pellets at paper airplanes, with his MY LIL’ SPACEMAN toy ray gun.
(Starting to get the point, now?)