More Conservatives, But No Republicans
Gallup found increasing numbers of independents sharing a similar view, with 50 percent now believing government regulates too much, compared to 38 percent last year. (Among Republicans, the increase was similarly significant, to 70 percent from 56 percent.) And this isn’t the only issue where independents have moved to the right; they have become “more conservative on a number of specific policy issues.” They have shifted right on government and union power, the role of government relative to promoting values, gun laws, immigration, global warming, and abortion. Republicans, most of whom considered themselves ideologically conservative in 2008, have also grown more conservative on several of these issues this year, while less change is seen among Democrats.
These numbers accord with a poll Gallup conducted last month which found “a sharp increase” in the number of Americans believing “that government is taking on too much responsibility for solving the nation’s problems and is over-regulating business.” Their data showed that 57 percent of Americans say the government is trying to do too many things that should be left to businesses and individuals and 45 percent say there is too much government regulation of business. Both reflect the highest such readings in more than a decade.
The issues which animated the GOP during Reagan’s heyday and in the mid-1990s remain as relevant today as they were in the elections of 1980, 1984, 1988, and 1994. Indeed, the Democratic presidential nominee tapped into one such issue in his successful bid for the White House last fall, reminding voters in the third debate that “throughout this campaign” he had proposed “a net spending cut.”
His record in office tells a different story.
The GOP has not been nearly as successful this year in tapping into that idea as Obama was last fall or Republicans were for the better part of the last two decades of the twentieth century.
If the Gallup poll is to serve as anything more than an ideological portrait of the American electorate, Republican leaders in Washington — and across the nation — need to ask why independents are moving decidedly to the right but not moving in any significant numbers to the GOP. That said, these numbers do provide a glimmer of hope to those of us on the right who believe that a reaffirmation of the principles which animated the GOP under Ronald Reagan and in the 104th and 105th Congresses, as well as a recommitment to policies in line with those ideals, will restore the party to power.
To do that, Republicans should ignore the advice of pundits who say they should move left to survive. This latest Gallup poll shows instead that the party needs to move to the right. It won’t be enough, however, for Republicans to say they’ve learned the lesson from past electoral losses. They’re going to have to show how much they’ve learned. Adopting a new “Contract with America” would be a good start.
The truth is that the American public is a fiscally conservative one and neither party represents that position at this time. The Republicans have a strong social conservative branch, but it only serves to drive away the less socially conservative independents. The Republican Party needs to embrace the Reagan idea of having open arms for fiscal conservatives and putting the social issues (abortion, gay marriage etc.) on the back burner. This does not sit well with the far right and thus the Republicans are forcing the independents to look elsewhere or to give up entirely, which usually leads to wins for the Democrats. One of two things is going to happen, the Republicans embrace fiscal conservatism as there goal or a new third party will arise and pull the fiscal conservatives from all parties.
Even Republicans that are normally seen on the far right of the party are swinging to the fiscal conservative bandwagon because they know that it is the only winner in town. See all the sudden support for Doug Hoffman. If the Republicans embrace fiscal conservatism then they will survive as a party and may put this country back on track. If they continue to support the RINOs and right wings then they will go the way of the Wigs. The Conservative party will pick up the pieces and push for fiscal conservatism, smaller government, and the resulting lower taxes and that is the change people are truly looking for.
They will come around. There is no stemming the tide. New york-23 is the foreTeller of whats to come.
Can I just say, I think the WH REALLY blew it big time on something… and they dont even know it.
See, they blew their load on Fox. So if another station turns… they are s-c-r-e-w-e-d, cause they have already validated them all.
Which is as it must be, unless and until GOP officeholders and candidates begin to talk and legislate like conservatives. Conservatives cannot afford to have the principles of freedom, limited government, free markets and military strength betrayed over and over by our supposed representatives. Far better that we be in opposition against liberals who openly despise those principles. We can operate more effectively to check liberals’ undecorated machinations against freedom and American interests than we can to chivvy “our guys” into doing what they should.
As paradoxical as it might sound, it’s better to lose an election to an open enemy than win one for a covert enemy.
It’s a good thing I’m not in charge of anything in Washington DC. I’d raise the unemployment rates overnight.
Looking back over past elections, I’m beginning to believe the dems and rep are “fixing ” the elections. George I didn’t seem to want to win,Dole was not the man to run, neither McCain.
For me the dems are now communist and the reps are gutless copies of the dems.
I will no longer support either party and vote the person. Yeah, I know,not much choise until the revolution.
jb, I hope you mean you would raise the unemployment rates by throwing all the current bums in congress and the white house, OUT of office.
Please let the “RNC” be “RIP”. The Republican Party has been dead since Reagan left Office. George Bush and Carl Rove buried it, after they stabbed out whatever little life was left in it. Only Hannity is dumb enough to think of Carl Rove as a Republican. Every time I see that guys face on TV I dive for the remote. I don’t want to hear another word out of his lying mouth. He and Bush made Obama possible, and they did so with malice aforethought.
We don’t need a third party. We need a second party, a party that is progressive in advancing the cause of liberty, economic prosperity while promoting the positive values that made this country great. Conservatism, liberalism, are just words. There has to be an agenda behind both of them. I know what the liberal agenda is. I just don’t know what the conservative agenda is. I don’t want Pat Robinson or Carl Rove defining conservatism. I want to see oils wells within view of Santa Barbara. I want to see factories in Detroit polluting the air and providing good paying jobs to thousands of Americans. I want to see nuclear power plants proving enough cheap energy so that people can put up Christmas tree lights without having to take out a loan to pay the electric bill. I want to see kids playing in open spaces without adult supervision or fear of predators. The pedophiles would be in jail with their liberal judges. And I want to see thousands of left wing Academicians applying for green cards in Communist Cuba.
“57% think govt over-regulates” ?
WOW! Really? Where’ve you been, dummies? — now that it’s too late!
#2 distraught: “There’s no stemming the tide” ?
You’ve got it backwards. THEY’re the tide. And again it’s too late!
Disgusting that after the curtain rings down the American public turn to each other and ask what kind of play they’re about to see.
Who are the “Republicans”?
Mush mouthed Lindsay Graham who goes along with anything so they don’t epose whatever?
Baton-less “leader” Boehner?
Bozo get-along MacCain. son of a son of a son of an admiral or senator?
THROW THE BUMS OUT! ALL OF THEM!
The Republican Party is not the solution, it’s part of the problem. Just more professional liars infesting Washington, self-serving, supporters of big gov’t., a lot of rhetoric, especially on social issues like abortion, gay rights, in reality, non-issues because these things are none of gov’t.’s business, these are issues for individuals to decide for themselves. We must throw the bums out, all of them, Republicans & Democrats, all the professional parasites.
The Republican party needs to be more fiscally conservative. You can’t define a tiger as a lapdog. The problem we face is that politics attracts those attracted to power, not those who value liberty for themselves and their fellow man. It’s not more we ask of government, but less.
It will end. It always does, usually badly. Look at the current ethics investigations in Congress. An honest government would expel dozens of these thieves. We get excuses, while the criminal class proceeds unmolested.
I really dislike this talk of fiscal and social conservatives. They are not mutually exclusive. How can a person be fiscally conservative and then vote for more social welfare spending???
The talk of “far right” is also a canard. We on the right all believe the same thing: limited gov’t, individual and business freedom, equality of opportunity, strong defense, and national pride.
Mr. Blatt asked, “…why independents are moving decidedly to the right but not moving in any significant numbers to the GOP.”
What has happened over the past 25 years is that our guys in Congress and Senate see that in order to get face time with the MSM, they must become “mavericks” and moderates. They swing to the left in bipartisanship. And we get clobbered. That in turn informs the independents that the right is wrong and they vote or move left. That led to Obama’s coronation.
Unfortunately now the genie is out of the bottle. And the Dems know it.
Sandy Solt: you have a prescription for total failure. If you think you can discard social conservatives and win then please join Newt in retirement.
There are answers to these questions, but nobody…on either side…wants to hear them.
The American electorate is said to be “moving this way” or “moving that way”. I don’t believe it. The American electorate is on a treadmill and they are running as fast as they can to stay in the same place.
This is a country that is overwhelmingly “in the middle”. But extremism has grabbed hold of the national debate and the moderate voice of reason is shouted out of it. The cacophony that remains, is neither enlightening nor particularly interested in factual foundation.
On the left, lefter, leftist side of the political spectrum…you have a rigged game. Crooked refs and umpires are installed to “fix” the outcome of the game…and then to look you straight in the eye and lie to you that it is “fair” and there is no cheating going on. The moral cowardice that currently makes up our information stream…in the guise of “journalism”…is probably the greatest national disgrace since slavery.
Our “facts” are no such thing. Our “news” is editorial tripe.
On the left, lefter, leftist side of the spectrum…we are enduring the final stages of power from the age of the hippies. Aging hippies are probably the most self-absorbed, relentlessly craven, closed-minded, and hypocritical of any American generation in history.
They lie with impunity. They distort facts and bend them to fit their narrative. They are a finger-pointing, blamefest ridden crowd, with no sense of loyalty or perspective. And they create a phony narrative in which they are always the “hero”…and invent villains to advance this comic book notion of themselves.
And they are good at it. The reason nobody is willing to self-identify with Republicans…is that they have been successfully marginalized with an enormously broad brush. They play the “foil” to the aging hippie leftist narrative.
And…they suck at getting out any message of their own. They are terrible at articulating what is wrong with leftism, what is wrong with the “cheating, lying, stealing” of leftism. They can’t beat a fixed and rigged and crooked game…they simply aren’t good enough.
Conservatives have been saddled with racism, homophobia, exclusionary instincts, anti-Semitism…as marks of Cain which they cannot erase.
And leftists keep inventing “hot button” issues that they know people of faith will recoil against. And the trap continues to ensnare them, time after time after time.
People want to be seen as nice, kind, compassionate. And leftists have painted a picture of anyone who is NOT leftist…as being “opposed” to niceness, kindness and compassion.
Our entrenched media is a conspirator in keeping this narrative alive. If we don’t address THAT issue…all the others will continue to fall in line as they have.
It’s really quite simple. The Republican Party is not gathering members who actually want a more conservative constitutionally aligned government because it is dominated by religious people who, to the exclusion of any other principals or programs, cannot allow abortion or gay rights to stand.
Further their lack of respect for their own stated goals, when they controlled Washington, of smaller government with reduced spending makes them come off as sour-grape complainers outside the clubhouse they’ve been locked out of – instead of wise parents counseling wayward teens to think through the ramifications of the course they’re pursuing.
Like all good politicians, the republicans talk a good game about smaller gov’t., lower taxes, fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, etc. Their actions speak different. I left the party 5 years ago. We were talking about these things then and we’re still talking. It’s time for serious action. How about a general week long strike!
Mr. Blatt: You define political ideologies in terms of liberal, independent and conservative. You forgot to include Marxists, who now control our government. Apparently 50% or more Americans are now leftists, or voted as such last November. Or perhaps they were just idiots…for a day.
The term “conservative” is just a feel-good word that doesn’t mean anything now.
Daniel:
I think you’re missing the trees while looking at the forest. The problem with the GOP isn’t that it lost touch with it’s values, it’s that many of those values have been proven disastrous. Former President Regan presided over the second largest economic recovery in US history. That was directly a result of lowering the tax burden primarily on business but also on individuals. What has ruined that success is a failure to properly regulate that success. Unfortunally for the GOP, REBs have always insisted on marrying the elimination of taxes on business (a good thing) with the elimination of the regulation of business (a bad thing). That marriage has and will continue to ruin all of the benefits of fiscal conservatism (an essential thing).
Sandy Salt:
You’re spot on with your analysis. And you no what, I think that would be a good thing to end this countries two-party system. After all, every other functioning democracy in the world has a multi-party system, I think we should too. So after the REBs go the way of the Whigs, then we can get started on the DEMs.
Sandy Salt (1): You appear to insinuate that social conservatives have not, traditionally, been fiscal conservatives. I contend that most social conservatives are also very strong fiscal, foreign policy and individual liberty conservatives. Many fiscal conservatives, however, become milquetoast moderates when the discussion turns to social issues or even individual liberties. True conservatives understand all of these issues are interrelated and that all contribute to strong political candidates and a stronger America.
By the time we’ll have decided if we are more conservative or more “Republican”, more or less “socially” conservative…
the subversive internationalists will have changed America into a social-fascist state for good.
We should be just answering to the class-warfare strategy of this marxist administration with one slogan:
No to socialism.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Tell you what, just as soon as you all figure out who you are and what you stand for and what you want to be when you grow up, give the world a call. We’ll be happy to indulge your latest incarnation of commitment.
Which will be the harder of the two? Defeating the radical Libs or convincing the Repubs? We know the mindset of both. Is there enough of a trust factor with the current Repub Party? We have much work to do!
Hell, yes! No more of RINOs going we have to “work with” the Democrats! We have different parties for a reason. Vive la difference! The Reblublican party should be the conservative, patriotic and, dare I say, AMERICAN alternative to the Democratic leftist, unpatriotic and un-American direction. Everybody who doesn’t like and doesn’t wan’t what the Democratic party is doing should have a place as a Rebublican and, I dare say again, be a Republican and vote strongly that way. No more RINOs! Democrats don’t care how much you kiss their butts to “work with” them, they’ll just use you for what they can get and throw you away (just like said Democrats suck up to dictators and other third world clowns who hate us in hopes they’ll like us better, which doesn’t work either). No more RINOs! Being a Republican should mean something again!
Independents are moving into alignment with conservatives on abortion? Since when?
Anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage positions by social conservatives drive away independents, they don’t bring them into the fold.
Independents are largely libertarian: fiscally conservative and socially non-conservative. They tolerated republicrat social conservativism in order to get some fiscal conservativism. Its no surprise now that they’ve abandoned the GOP in droves because the republicrats broke their word on the deal: they gave us profligate spending along with their social conservativism. That deal pleased socons like Mike Huckabee who seem willing to give up any pretense of fiscal responsibility in order to have their holy roller social issue positions forced down the throats of the rest of us, but independents are fed up with it.
And…there in #21 ladies and gentlemen…is the prime example of a pompous, self-absorbed, finger-pointing, blamefest, cretin.
A guy who would come to a site and exist solely to be a flamer…is the 20% that defines themselves as leftist in this country.
Despicable in nature, divisive and toxic, …these are folks who have nothing better to do than to try to tear us apart as a nation.
The “divide and conquer” mentality is the main tool for leftism. They offer no solutions, are hypocrites to the core and exist solely on the negativity and bad blood they generate.
Whether they are inciting class wars, racial wars, gender wars, sexual preference wars…it matters little to them. They thrive on negative energy.
And…they are winning. They own the culture…trash talkers hiding behind the safety of keyboards. They can’t play on a level playing field…so they have to “fix” or “rig” the game. Then, they lie about it being fixed at all.
The NEW BIG LIE…one so preposterous, nobody stops to assess why it would never be believed. They distort facts, create dissension, …then deny they are doing any such thing.
Moral cowards without a conscience…they are destroying the country…and enjoying every minute of it. Like most vermin…what they fear most…is the light of day. They have successfully marginalized conservatives, Christian-faith based folks, Republicans, Wall Street, …they even turned on their own (Lieberman and Clinton) like rabid mongrels.
Since I am grown up already, I know what I want to be..and am. An American who is proud of my country…doesn’t need to incessantly berate it or apologize for it.
And I know what I am not. A moral coward living a life of distortion, sedition, and hypocrisy. Or as a troll.
LATEST NEWS !
SCOZZAFAVA HAS RETIRED FROM THE RACE !!!
It’s the demonrat against the conservative !
This is big !!!!!
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
FROM
FoxNews.com
Scozzafava’s team pulled the plug on the campaign after viewing the Siena poll, sources told Fox News, adding that there was no pressure from the National Republican Congressional Committee or the Republican National Committee.
Ken Spain, a spokesman for the NRCC, said Scozzafava will now release her supporters to vote for Hoffman.
That endorsement will set in motion phone banks, voter e-mails and other NRCC ground operations for Hoffman, GOP sources told Fox News, adding that the NRCC may also provide money for TV and radio ads if any slots are available and the campaign needs them.
cfbleachers@25:
“And…they are winning. They own the culture…trash talkers hiding behind the safety of keyboards.”
Well, if you want to meet me in person so that I can “talk trash” to you directly without hiding behind the safety of keyboards, do let me know.
I’ve posted my email address as well as suggestions on where to meet on other threads and nobody ever takes me up on my offer.
Seems that regressive conservatards are the coward trash talkers hiding behind keyboards.
“Social conservative” most usually means a person who favors the use of the law to define and enforce various social and moral codes. Social conservatives generally (but not always) favor an intensified War on Drugs, government action to suppress pornography, the banning of abortion, tight restrictions on gambling, and so forth. You might think of it as a form of Toryism.
However, I’m pleased to say that that form of social conservatism is becoming less and less politically relevant. Persons concerned with the corrosive effects of abortion-on-demand, drug abuse, the promotion of gambling, and so forth are steadily coming to the realization that the use of law to suppress these things 1) rarely works, and: 2) always has unintended consequences that are really bad in and of themselves. For example, America’s prison wardens are all but unanimous that the worst corrupting influence on prison guards and employees is the illegality of drugs: it provides them with a privilege they can “license” to favored inmates for a fee. Many a police commander feels the same.
Modern American conservatism is moving toward classical (or Manchester) liberalism, which called for a minimum state and little or no intervention in the decisions and interactions of citizens. At this time, the main distinction between American conservatism and classical liberalism is that the former places a great emphasis on a strong standing military, and is willing to use it for reasons other than strict national defense, whereas the latter believes the military should be kept small, and never deployed for any reason other than strict national defense.
Another term one hears with fair frequency these days is libertarian-conservative. Such a person is personally conservative — often quite so, as I am — but politically libertarian. He votes Republican in the main, but won’t vote to elect a man 1) whose principles don’t put freedom and the defense of freedom above all other political ends, or: 2) has demonstrated low personal character.
My standard for supporting a candidate is this: Does he put freedom first? And would I be willing to have him as a neighbor, who borrows my tools and eats at my table regularly? This overall attitude appears to be the direction in which American conservatism is headed.
As Now & Then has intimated, the Democrats already have a fixed identity: jack-booted, goose-stepping thugs who shout Government uber alles! in perfect unison. No deviation from the Party line is permitted; ask Joseph Lieberman. No doubt they’ll be unveiling the new Party salute Real Soon Now.
Simply put, if Republicans wish to recapture their majorities, they need to figure out why so many conservatives continue to remain wary of the party considered the more conservative of the two. Indeed, Gallup found “the main reason the percentage of conservatives has increased nationally over the past year” has been the number of independents moving right:
The answer is that the Republican party obviously stands for nothing. Having put all of their energy to mobilize the dumbest people in the nation, they’ve driven everyone else to be Independent or Democrat. Even the staunchest conservative has more in common with a liberal of average intelligence than with the average ganglion-powered Republican wing-nut. You did it to yourselves, and now its a blast watching you all scratch your heads about why your party represents nothing.
25 cfbleachers
I have no interest in your victimhood. I have no faith in your judgment. I have no role in your accusations. Everything you wrote I believe to be true of resentful conservatives and power mad Republicans. The Right has no monopoly on truth, justice and the American way, you’d just like to think so. I’m just as American and just as proud of my country. I don’t berate it or apologize for it.
And I don’t cheer when it loses an Olympic bid out of some ill-informed candyass political point of view. But some did. And that’s why I do what I do. I’m here to point out the self-righteous hypocritical moralizing of the Right. Your post is a perfect example . . . “trash talkers hiding behind the safety of keyboard.” Have you no sense of irony? Have you no sense of decency?
And so I reject your opinion about me and the Left and the Right and the political landscape and the culture of this great country. It is the conservative movement that has destroyed the best of what America is. We can only try to repair the damage of that misguided philosophy and bury the scorched earth economic and military policies that defined it.
You choose to hang out here with people who all agree – an empty, self-aggrandizing coward’s game. And you rely on the willful amnesia of your own guilt in the very accusations you make against others to feel justified in your incessant whining. I admit the wrongs on both sides. You don’t. In fact, you represent the very essence of what’s wrong with our national discourse – lack of principle. And that waffling is most evident right here in this conservative circle jerk you call “analysis.”
I prefer to go into the lion’s den – to hold you accountable for your transgressions, to highlight your depraved morality, and to remind the world that what once was – the conservative politics of greed, social indifference, and personal destruction – need not be again. We have a high purpose. We answer to a higher power. Oh, I almost forgot . . . turd!
21. Now and Then.
“Tell you what, just as soon as you all figure out who you are and what you stand for and what you want to be when you grow up, give the world a call. We’ll be happy to indulge your latest incarnation of commitment.”
“We’ll be happy…”. To whom am I speaking? Now, or Then? Doesn’t matter.
These are “The Minds That Determine All” at work. Beware conservatives, We’ve got you in the sights of my Love Gun.
Further…
From this article –
October 29th, 2009 11:19 am
Open Season on Jews: Two Men Shot At Prayer in Los Angeles By Phyllis Chesler
62. Now and Then commented –
“Ambitious. Gymnastic. Defensive. Guilty.”
“I lured you into a knee-jerk ideological assertion/insult. It’s a conservative pathology. You got what you deserved. You weren’t the first. You won’t be the last.”
Oct 29, 2009 – 8:19 pm
Do you like Fidel Castro and his beard too? Wow. What about Friedrich Nietchze and his syphilis?
Is this your manifesto? What kind of “luring” will you be doing on Halloween? Are you dressing up as Anvil Johnson? Heinrich Himmler? Or Ho Chi Now?
Mao and Then? With Anita Dunn costumed as Mother Teresa on your arm? Maybe you can drag along 50 million dead bodies as a prop.
See the modern liberal plow thousands of “Ambitious, Gymnastic” pathologically unfit conservatives into the meat grinder of history! Mark the day! The Power of the “Now” (Hope) is upon you! “Then” (Change) you will no longer have your pathological knee to jerk!
“You got what you deserved. You weren’t the first. You won’t be the last.”
Done your imaginary Polanski routine on any Defensive, Guilty, insulting conservatives lately?
Do you write video game scripts for 10 year old boys?
27. Sherab
Yes, I was to post about it now too! So, we have good news and things getting more interesting…
I also read in the same Fox articles that Scozzafava made a “selfless” choice.. that was not a selfless choice, she was forced to quit when she saw people’s real preferences.
@24. Richard: – Independents are largely libertarian: fiscally conservative and socially non-conservative.
I don’t think so. And the data doesn’t support this notion.
“Independents” – the vast, mushy ‘middle’ that ultimately decides every election and thus, sadly, defines our national polity – no longer has any identifiable principles. If they’re at all ‘libertarian’, it’s only to the extent that they want to be left alone to pursue their lives with minimum tax expense and yet enjoy maximum, government- or employer-subsidized entitlement, oblivious to the fact that those entitlements are ultimately funded by Other People’s Money.
“Independents” are politically cynical and, thus, gullible and easily manipulated due to their self-absorbed, disengaged, and television-addicted existence. They vote as they’re told by current pop culture and whichever infomart already has a grip on their short (apolitical) attention span. For the moment and the foreseeable future, that’s primarily The Left Wing Media Establishment, in all of its various forms.
Without firm, decisive action aimed at undoing the corruption of elected office, academia and the media, the notion that conservatives will ever accomplish more than the relentless, pendulum-swinging march toward collectivist social suicide is laughable. “Independents” comprise those who either have yet to be indoctrinated into the leftist, entitlement mindset or have yet to be educated regarding their rights and responsibilities in a nation defined by the Republican form of Government guaranteed by our Constitution. Conservatives – with or without the Republican party – won’t succeed at preserving the Republic until that fact is acknowledged and addressed.
It no longer matters how the Republican party “defines itself”. Winning elections in a system that has been successfully corrupted, broken and rigged by the left is no longer going to make a difference.
32. Mr Lucky:
“Do you like Fidel Castro and his beard too? . . . “What about Friedrich Nietchze and his syphilis . . . imaginary Polanski routine”
Wow, that’s quite a menu of fantasies. Tell me, what do you do in the daytime? Does your doctor work during the day? You might want to consider blending those two.
I would like to add that the idea that most people don’t want restrictions on abortion is a lie. The fact is that over 70% of Americans want abortion to be severely restricted (as in, legal only when the life of the mother is on the line, or perhaps in cases of rape or incest), if not banned entirely.
28. Dave K.:Yeah, where are you, I’d love to come talk to you.
Virginians! New Jerseyans! New Yorkers! Hear my plea!
Californians desperately need to focus on critical state matters: tax-abuse by our legislature, the Central Valley Farm crisis (all the fun of Katrina without the water), regulatory abuses and horrendous policies developed and implemented by the California Air Resources Board, repealing of the state version of Cap-and-Tax, and freeing our people from our own “axis of evil” (Union and Political Power Elites) via our first Tea Party Proposition.
If the people in our three sister states can stem federal government power-grabs, then there is a chance the Californians can turn back the bureaucratic over-reach that is killing our state. More here (with links):
http://templeofmut.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/happy-halloween-ny-nj-and-va-races-will-impact-california/
The company you keep (or constitute):
“Birthers are less educated, watch more TV, and read fewer books than non-birthers.
Some 43 percent of them have never traveled outside of their home country. They’re 24 percent more likely to speak only a single language. They are 63% less likely to have ever owned a passport.
A third of them didn’t vote in the last presidential election. Forty-four percent of them believe that the Big Bang didn’t really happen and 47 percent don’t believe in global warming. Birthers are also 19 percent more likely to believe in UFOs and alien visits to earth and 50 percent more likely to believe in alien abductions.
Interestingly, birthers are 115 percent more likely to think that human beings are naturally evil rather than good.”
(Hunch)
#1 Now and Then
“I prefer to go into the lion’s den – to hold you accountable for your transgressions, to highlight your depraved morality, and to remind the world that what once was – the conservative politics of greed, social indifference, and personal destruction – need not be again. We have a high purpose. We answer to a higher power.”
Wow, I can almost see the flag (not sure which flag)waving in the background. As soon as everyone quits laughing there is a serious point to be made here that many have made before. This kind of sick rage against everything a majority Conservative Country holds dear is just too real to be ignored. This person is but a caricature of the all too real possibility that you and I may someday sit across the table from this … thing as it decides who in your family goes to the gulag as he holds you “accountable”. Take it seriously and get involved in your towns politics. I can assure you they are and the consequences of them winning will be a horror visited on this Country like none we have ever seen.
When I came to this page, I hit CTRL-F and searched on “abortion.” I agree with the prevailing view. Republicans (and Democrats) should advise social conservatives to use institutions other than the law to pursue this cause — church, the press, the family. Same for gay marriage.
I think that the withdrawal of Scozzafava was the best and only logical action by the Republican Party.
By this action, they are openly saying that they support conservativism. If they had continued to participate in the race, their ideology was empty, reduced to only their name (Republican) while Hoffman has the ideology. By withdrawing, they’ve acknowledge that they support the conservative ideology.
Now, the Repulicans have a lot of work to do, to move back to conservativism across the land.
The Democrats have shifted more and more to the left and are now radical statists focused on central authoritarian government,a centralized govt run economy, a restriction of individual freedom, a rejection of national sovereignty, and a rejection of individual work and its results.
As they shifted, the Republicans also moved to the left, focusing their ‘leftism’ in the social zone of ethical and cultural relativism.
But America is not socialist; it began with a focus on individual freedom and it is this freedom that enabled it to produce almost all the technological achievements of our modern industrial world. There is no other society that can claim such innovations in the technological, medical, physical, chemical realms. All of this, is due to that notion of individual freedom – something rejected by the Democrats.
Conservativism is based on this ‘root’ within the free individual, who exists within a community – which itself operates within a common rule of law – but these laws are made by the people for the people. They are there to protect the individual and his property.
now and then – what a silly set of percentages. No-one has done a legitimate scientific study of ‘birthers’, and that includes such irrelevancies as their education, television watching, travels, linguistic habits and so on.
Oh, and there’s no such thing as ’115%’. It’s either 100% or less.
You choose to post trivial, unfounded and insulting remarks. That’s your choice.
Try again, and this time, THINK about what you are writing.
Dave K. : What delusions of grandeur you have. You’ll probably end up in a pysch ward believing yourself to be Napolean (or, given your politics, Mao or Stalin).
Why on earth do you think anybody would be interested in paying good coin to fly across the country or even drive across town to meet you? You’re an utterly insignificant blog troll, a wuss trying to talk tough, a mere pimple. If you lived 10 minutes away from me, I’d consider it a waste of gas and time to meet you. If I want to listen to leftist blather, all I have to do is walk down to the coffee shop a block away and eavesdrop on bitter, underemployed Womyn’s Studies majors who want the government to tie their shoes for them and tuck them in at night.
Its already starting. With Dede the scuzzbag quitting in NY23, it increases the chance of a conservative winning in upstate NY. Not only is Mcdonnell going to win in Virginia, but it looks like all the downline offices are going to conservatives. Any bets Christie would win handily if Doggett quit in Jersey? Corslime cant get above 43% no matter what, his only chance is for Doggett to hurt Christie. The biggest signifignce of NY23 is the Palin effect. The Arctic Fox endorses Hoffman and ONE WEEK later the RINO is left in the dust and every other quesy GOPer is jumping on the bandwagon. Shows you the Arctic Fox Saracuda has some real affect. Now time to aim our guns at Nasty the Bolshevik B*tch Piglosi and stop the “public option” and communist healthcare by Dr Kevorkian.
A just released Pew poll showed Republicans and independents are more knowledgable about politics than Democrats:
“Republicans and independents each averaged 5.7 correct answers, compared with five correct among Democrats.”
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1378/political-news-iq-quiz?src=prc-latest&proj=forum
Of course, any one who reads the comments threads on PJM knows that leftists are boneheads. N & T has stopped splashing in the toliet (the man has a pitable poo fixation) long enough to let us know he thinks that 115% of a group can believe something. 115%? He clearly is the product of the public schools.
Rather like his Messiah’s belief in 57 states. The Dems do have serious problems grasping basic math, which is why they are spending us into bankruptcy. And why they are suckers for any lame, made-up “study” out there that confirms what they desperately wish to be true.
By the way folks-maybe the reason the Bolshevik B*tch is trying to get this done this week is PRECISELY because of the election. Dont take our eyes off the ball folks. Nasty the B*tch is a sleazy ,underhanded POS who needs to be thrown off the top of the highest mountain for what shes trying to do. Her and king pig Soros need to be strapped together, Ugly meets Ugliest.
43. ETAB:
44. Donna V.:
27. Sherab Zangpo:
41. arhooley:
36. myth buster:
I have been discussing this with others on this forum and I’d love to include you in this conversation. The topic is to forward the proposal for a binding PLEDGE for all elected republican officials that they engage in no deficit spending and oppose all efforts to engage in deficit spending.
The point of this is to force the republican party to be the fiscally conservative party by removing any and all choice in the matter. They’ve already proven they cannot be trusted.
If conservative want to FORCE the republican party to be fiscally conservative this is the most realistic way. Anyone who doesnt want to take the pledge or violates is not longer a member of the party. That simple.
Yes, there would have to be a provision for instances of severe existential national emergencies, but other than that, no exceptions.
42, Good post, ETAB.
The thing to remember about all politicians – not just Dems, or Republicans, or conservatives is that increasing their own power and influence comes naturally to them. In a way, a conservative politician is an oxymoron, working against his own instincts. And when politicians find themselves in Washington DC, a place which thrives on government expansion, they have to have cojones of steel not to gradually succumb to the temptation to spend other people’s money. A conservative in DC is like a vegan at a barbeque – everyone else is having a grand old time stuffing their faces and he’s the odd man out.
Dems feel no pressure to move away from the trough. Republicans, on the other hand, are constantly pushed toward it – and not just because of DC, but because of the voters.
Joe Schmoe doesn’t like high taxes, but he sure likes the pork that comes into his district. He watches the campaign ads and sees that Congressman X is on this committee, brought that amount of federal dollars back home, signed this that and the other, and he thinks Congressmen X is taking care of his own.
We’d all be better off if Reid, Pelosi, etc. spent their days playing golf or going bowling, but “I’m going to Congress to do as little damage as possible” is not a winning formula for elections. They all have to promise the damn moon, and the only way they can pretend to be giving you the moon is by enacting programs and bills and regulations and – that’s how our freedoms are gradually eroded.
The GOP will always have to have its feet held to the fire in a way that the Dems will not, because it is far, far too easy for them to lapse and join the spending party. Freedom is never something conservatives can get compliance about, because there will always be forces out there who want to diminish it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t there the Whig Party in the US before the Republicans, and those who left the Whigs became Republicans? The same, I think in Great Britain, but the Whigs became the Liberals.
So, what is preventing the Republicans from winding up and the Conservatives would form the Conservative Party, whereas those who are the ideological descendants of Rockefeller, et al., would join some other party.
Then again, there is a Whig Party in the US these
days.
Dave K.:
cfbleachers@25:
“And…they are winning. They own the culture…trash talkers hiding behind the safety of keyboards.”
Well, if you want to meet me in person so that I can “talk trash” to you directly without hiding behind the safety of keyboards, do let me know.
I’ve posted my email address as well as suggestions on where to meet on other threads and nobody ever takes me up on my offer.
Seems that regressive conservatards are the coward trash talkers hiding behind keyboards.
Oct 31, 2009 – 10:02 am
—————————
Dave K; internet tough guy, or… full blown hypocrite? Every day good ‘ol Dave and his looney bin full of libturds make it a point spew their collective feces all over this site. The irony of Dave’s “Seems that regressive conservatards are the coward trash talkers hiding behind keyboards” sentence is compelling, if not humorous considering that PJM is a conservative leaning site which Dave and family infest on a regular basis… kind of like cockroaches. Dave is an indoctrinated trash talking hypocrite! Why else would he and his band of Alinsky sympathizers be here? Martyrs maybe?
By the way Dave, or is it “tough guy”, Southern Oregon is real nice this time of year. Want to go hunting with me and my conservative friends? We could “talk trash” around the campfire… at your expense, no doubt… dolt!
It is not the social conservatism that is driving away those in the Center. It is the Leftist Media spin on social conservatism that is driving them away.
The fact is, poll after poll shows that people are turning away from abortion in ever greater numbers. The question is, “Why?” Because of technology. Ultrasounds reveal the baby. Now we have the ability of 3-D ultrasounds. Predictably, the Left is trying to block such. It’s not just the ultrasounds, however. The debate has to be alive in the public’s mind to get them to think about it, else the ultraounds would not have the same impact.
The emphasis, yes, needs to be away from legislating. Still discuss it as a political belief in the context of one’s moral beliefs. The time for legislation is when the overwhelming majority of people have personally turned away from abortion. You can’t force it, but you can nudge it along.
There’s nothing wrong with social conservatism, but we must be careful to not seem to be the same kind of tyrants as the Far-Left. Focus on the fiscal conservatism aspects. When we’ve proven that we can be trusted in that part of our message, then they will be willing to listen to the rest of the message. One step at a time. Do not overreach.
The problem is simple, and it’s not about the parties. The welfare state has become unsustainable–as is, leave aside all the new additions the Democrats now want to pile on. It’s easy enough to see that if you keep taxing and regulating productive activities to support unproductive ones, fewer people are interested in being productive anymore. And then the state uses that as an excuse to take over more activities and make them even less productive. That’s the point we’re at now, but the problem is that we can no longer afford the Great Society and New Deal programs either–that’s why we have our crisis that the Democrats refuse to waste (and will soon make completely irreparable). The only way to restore freedom is to return the problems of attending to one’s health care, retirement, buying a house, starting a business, saving for a rainy day, etc., back to individuals, communities and enterprises. But someone running on a program of dismantling the welfare/regulatory state will get about .03% of the vote, or thereabouts. So we should fight back as best we can, of course, but all we can reasonably expect is to set an example and provide a cautionary lesson for others who will seize the opportunity for freedom in other places, and who may be able to avoid our mistakes–we can help them out by highlighting those mistake loud and clear, and refusing to consent to them. Perhaps India, or Southeast Asian countries like China and Vietnam, once they have overthrown their current dictatorships, will provide the next great flowering of freedom. Perhaps my grandchildren will emigrate there.
#29 Porretto – Regarding Wardens and Police captains believing the illegality of drugs is the cause of the corruption of their subordinates: WTH? they get corrupted, because they have weak character. To blame anything else is to throw up one’s hands in surrender. Anyone espousing such nonsense should be terminated immediately for incompetence.
These idiots saying such things are responsible for the transgressions. they are not being strong enough about it. They are not getting the message through to their subordinates. They are not emplacing adequate safeguards. Their guys are doing it, and they are not doing enough about it. Rather than accepting the blame for their failure to lead, they blame the illegality of drugs.
Lots of things are illegal. There, thus, will always be serious money involved and the temptation of corruption. Shall these law-enforcement types, then decry the illegality of everything. Wherefore then should we employ them?
Deflect, distract, change the argument. Anything but the harsh truth.
#43 ETAB – Um, yes there is such a thing as 115%. If 40 people believe one thing, and 86 oppose, then the opposers outnumber the believers by 115%. Please don’t say such stupid things and make me defend such cretins as N&T.
The latest Gallup sounds like the beginning of the END OF THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM! About time, I think.
I ordinarily do not get into lengthy dialogues with trolls. The very nature of a troll is someone who exists as a provocateur…a flame thrower, without moral conscience or compass.
Weasels by nature, obnoxious by choice, unreasonable by nature and illogical by trade…it is usually a waste of time, no rational person should attempt to fill these empty vessels.
Most rules have exceptions and I suppose one could be made here. The trolls on this site are invariably screechers in an echo chamber. This Now and Then character has a moniker that must reflect the frequency of two synapses firing simultaneously for him.
First, sport…I’m not a “conservative” by designation. Neither is Roger Simon, Ron Radosh, Victor Davis Hanson, …you are on a site that displays a breadth of the political spectrum which you cannot see hidden in your spider hole of leftist pap.
Second, your arrogance is unjustified, your ignorance is more your calling card. You aren’t particularly astute, erudite, informed, witty or articulate. Basically, you are a flame thrower who regurgitates the leftist playbook incessantly…and not very well, to be frank.
You spend your pitiful little life going out of your pathetic way…to antagonize people who weren’t talking to you in the first place. Must suck to be you, if that’s what you find as the most appealing way to spend most of your days. You never leave here…must be lonely where you are.
Then again, if your personality is as it appears here, no need for further explanation about why your life is so lonely.
As for moral cowardice, if there was a Nobel Prize for that…leftists would all have a trophy case filled with them. For anyone who sits by silently and allows a rigged game to be “fixed” in their favor…and then gloats about winning, is a pathetic creature of the first order.
Leftists are cowards. They are disloyal to this country and to its people. They put the “message” first and everything else behind that. Not ONCE can you point to ANY comment you have made that has gone against that tide. Ever.
I find it laughable that leftists hide behind the flag every time their sedition and disloyalty is pointed out. Overwhelmingly anti-military, they parade around apologizing for America’s “sins”. They spew platitudes about “freedom”…then march in lockstep toward a totalitarian death grip by the “government” over “the people”…they pretend to want to represent.
The entrenched media in their pocket covers for them…and they lap up the distortion like mother’s milk.
You can give any answer you would like…it should fall on deaf ears until such time as you stand and ask to be counted against ANY side “rigging” the facts so that it always comes out a “winner”. Unless you are willing to do that…you deserve at best …pity.
David K….LOL!!!! Moral cowardice is one thing…but…you kinda lost that peace, love, dove pretense there though, without much provocation, wow! Wasn’t even talking to you…nor as far as I know…about you. I just talked about moral cowardice in general…and voila…you got winged! Thanks for the confession and thanks for playing.
Moral courage is the ability to stand up to your OWN side when they are wrong…not come on a website and snipe at others….behind a keyboard.
If you think I wouldn’t call leftists …moral cowards…to their face…you don’t know me…at all.
Goy, I like you…quite a bit. But your last comment has me confused.
I’m a GDI. Been that way all my life. That does NOT mean that my opinions on things are “mushy” or that they don’t have solid underpinnings.
You misunderstand the middle, if you believe what you wrote. The voice of independents is not an echo chamber, to be sure. But, I think that is a good thing.
The best platforms, ideas and practical solutions do not come from yes-men, all dressed up in one uniform. In fact, if I’m in the room with a yes-man, one of us is unnecessary.
Extremism…especially leftism, in post-modern America…is a disease. Two screeching imbeciles flinging mud at each other across the aisle is not great political judgment…it’s no longer even fun political theater.
It’s ugly and destructive. Independent…(or non-dependent) critical thinking is a better way to rational, reasonable, clear choices. As long as we are presented with actual facts, and not pre-masticated pap…we can do that.
31.”I prefer to go into the lion’s den – to hold you accountable for your transgressions,”
yeah yeah yeah,you LOVE it….which is understandable.
there is no lefty PJM-no lion’s den for me-and we all know why,so be be humbled at the open-mindedness of these bigots who allow you to post your rants day in and day out.
I wonder at the blindness of Leftists who go around acting all superior because of “Birthers” on the Right (who constitute less than 5% of the GOP base and contain many Hillary voters).
This is while being on the same side as the idiots who believe Bush demolished the Twin Towers, blew up the levees in New Orleans and that Trig Palin is the product of incest between his sister and his father – and that his sister got pregnant again while she was eight months pregnant. Taken altogether, this is more than 40% of the Left believing in truly whacked out conspiracy theories.
That is the company you keep “Now and Then” – in fact, if I recall correctly, you’re a spreader of the Trig incest story. Compared to the amount of crazy on your side, I’d much sooner be allied with “Birthers”.
Dear Republican Party,
It should come as NO surprise that when you stab someone in the back they are wary of allowing you to get behind them again.
When the Republicans won in 1994, they portrayed themselves as the Cavelry, riding over the hill to the rescue. The only problem is that they didn’t fight the Indians (oooops excuse me, Native Americans oh H. scratch that, Indians) they sat down and had lunch with them.
They didn’t stop the raids, they simply got the indians to agree to leave one building standing at each farmstead.
They still haven’t figured out why there are no statues erected to the “great compramisers” of history.
Until they get the real message of NY 23, they are still going to have the same problems.
jd
Do Not Feed the RINOs!
mortuus: don’t give him your email; he will track your IP and then let loose the hounds of hell.
DonnaV says it all perfectly. DK is a poseur. notice all his posts are cut outs of another post and he uses circular logic and deflection to “debate”. DK is DS.
n&t”I admit the wrongs on both sides.” Name a few from the left.
“You don’t. In fact, you represent the very essence of what’s wrong with our national discourse – lack of principle.” This from a vile creature that made fun of Glen Beck’s child. Good grief. You are a moron.
And that waffling is most evident right here in this conservative circle jerk you call “analysis.” Then what pray tell are you doing here?
“I prefer to go into the lion’s den – to hold you accountable for your transgressions, to highlight your depraved morality, and to remind the world that what once was – the conservative politics of greed, social indifference, and personal destruction – need not be again.” This pap belongs on a bathroom stall. Do you really think we take you even remotely legitimate or sane? You are a play toy. Vile but a toy.
” We have a high purpose. We answer to a higher power. Oh, I almost forgot . . . turd!” What is that higher purpose? Who is that higher power? And I thought the left did not believe in higher powers other than man’s power over man? Moron. Got you metaphors mixed up, eh??
Conservatives can be Republican, Independent, Democrat and even Libertarian. Is the RNC gone forever or is it damaged goods? I believe the latter. I meet with an “As A Mom” group and we are coming from very different backgrounds politically and religiouly, but we agree that we are bound most tightly by our conservative principles.
If Republicans want to be relevant, they must articulate these same conservative principles and find a way to address the issues that concern social conservatives(abortion and gay marriage). Keep federal funding out of the abortion business and let the government define unions and religious institutions can define what is marriage. Don’t forget that God has a significant place in America, but keep these social issues clearly separated between church and state.
marc malone: I’m aware of your point but I don’t think that such is a valid way of comparing ratios.
40 people of a total of 126 is 31.7%; 86 of the 126 total is 68.2%. Total is 99.9 or 100%. This sets up a clear comparison of a population. You can say that the rate of X is 2.15 vs Y.
To claim that the ratio is 115% sets up a confusion about your population.The whole population has to be 100%…and to start to insert percentages as comparison rate is, in my view, confusing.
Why can’t you guys go back to your basic square meal days: fiscal responsibility, good schools, and a strong military? And if you also stop with the anti-science and religious nutcase stuff, and using “Facts R’nt Us” for your political Twinkie fixes, maybe you’ll stop being scorned and mocked. As much.
56. cfbleachers:
“antagonize people who weren’t talking to you in the first place. ”
You do KNOW what a blog is, right? It’s people commenting on a topic at hand. They don’t have to be responding to anybody in particular, just expressing the first amendment rights. Your regret at such access seems to pucker your wrinkled sensibilities. It points to that waffling lack of principle I pointed out earlier.
“Not ONCE can you point to ANY comment you have made that has gone against that tide. Ever.”
Seems to me every I comment I make here goes against the tide.
“until such time as you stand and ask to be counted against ANY side “rigging” the facts so that it always comes out a “winner”.”
I do so regularly, but it’s when conservatives and Republiturds do it (ref: #51 fireyourgubs for precedent). Given that you refuse to admit such behavior exists on both sides, I feel compelled to point out the side you so conveniently omit.
“If you think I wouldn’t call leftists …moral cowards…to their face…you don’t know me…at all.”
And yet you think you now other strangers well enough to suggest otherwise where their fortitude is concerned. It’s the hubris and bravado of being surrounded by those who agree, multiplied by the escape of anonymity. Stick with that. It minimizes risk and masks genuine commitment. Always play to your strengths.
And so, it’s clear you can’t quite hang with facing legitimate and artful criticism. Having spent the last few decades stifling and demonizing dissent, you now find yourself in the vice-like contradiction of being the thing you decry. And you’re not very good at it. So, I suggest you shelve the hifalutin pocket psychology and try to determine the true nature of family values, freedom, and liberty that we liberals are working to reclaim. It’s tough dragging our country up through the muck of conservatism on our way to the surface where the air is clean, the sun is bright, and the future is one of possibility rather than fear and decay promulgated by the spiritual hucksters of Fox News and talk radio. Really, I realize the right is falling a bit short on heroes lately, but you gotta set higher standards for yourselves.
So give me one good reason why I shouldn’t describe you as a fat , lonely, chair-ridden castaway that ever-changing society has rendered a drooling resident of glorydays’ ash heap – no friends, no education, no passions, no sacrifice, no world experiences, just a relentless diet of barbecue and Beck. Tell me again why you should judge and no one else should. Tell me again, how unfair life is to you as a conservative.
48. baal:
Sounds good to me. What’s the next step?
Congratulations #25. Big Dave wants to take you on. He and his Che left leaning fiends are on this site only to harass intelligent conversation AND TAKE US DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. I LIKE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE GOT UNDER HIS SKIN. Dave is showing his true colors. A trash talking punk.
cfbleachers@25:
“And…they are winning. They own the culture…trash talkers hiding behind the safety of keyboards.”
Dave wants to come out from behind his kwy board and do what? He did not say. You hurt his feelings and now he wants to be your pen pal, maybe meet you in person to hurl insults face to face, or maybe to share a Cafe Latte while trying to come to grips with his gender identity crisis.
Con-/->Pub It is about the Economy…
Bill Cosby for President, for this line:
God to Noah; How long can you tread water ?
Question to all: How low would your _personal_
fortunes have to sink, before you got off your
favorite hobby-horse in midstream, and started
swimming for your life ?
Until the US works its way out of bankruptcy,
the _only_ issue is maximizing the production of
new wealth by the manufacturing economy.
For Mutnodjmet – Well, at least you are trying to stem the growth of federal tyranny. Good luck & I might encourage you to read that new book just out where a small town in America stands up to federal tyranny & ends up igniting the fire that starts the 2nd American Revolution. It’s germane to what’s happening in AMerica.
It’s a great political thriller & a must read if you want to know what’s happening now. Just read it.
http://www.booksbyoliver.com
61. blotto:
Still angry and embarrassed at having your views quoted to surface the anti-Semitism of conservatives. I understand, Give it a few days. it will pass and you’ll be back to your old self – soaked in denial.
One possible outcome is, by the time we get back around to conservatism, we will all be way beyond broke, and there won’t be darned thing left to “conserve”.
@57. cfbleachers: – …your last comment has me confused.
That’s probably because I wasn’t clear. I find this whole discussion of “what conservatives should do, politically” tiresome, so I was probably sloppy in my terminology. I’m not familiar with “GDI”.
There are politically committed independents – that is, people who are unaffiliated with either major party, for principled reasons. Those aren’t the ‘mushy middle’ I was referring to. They’re also a tiny minority of the electorate, as far as I can tell.
It’s an unfortunate fact that the vast majority of the public has no understanding of civics or the Constitution, and no interest in understanding them. Those are the people I was referring to. Their votes are cast at the mercy of the loudest voice and/or the talking head with the most gravitas. This is one of the unfortunate facts classical liberals / conservatives are going to have to face and address, with substantive action, not just reactionary rhetoric lamenting how dishonest the media is or how corrupt politicians are. IMHO we’re past the point where a ‘renewed’ or otherwise redefined GOP matters – the problems requiring solutions are systemic ones that require fundamental social repair.
.
@68. M. Report: – “How long can you tread water ?”
Riiiiiiiiight.
A third party will not work, plain and simple. The American political system with its single-member-district-plurality setup will simply not allow multiple parties. Conservatives then have two choices. They can either retake the Republican Party by defeating the elitist liberal and moderate Republicans – like Reagan did. Or, they can form a Conservative Party and then destroy the Republican Party by replacing it as the logical alternative to the Democratic Party. Historically, the only way a new party has survived is by replacing an existing party. There is simply no other way.
I have posted this before on this site but it is worth repeating. Limited government and a strong military are contradictory desires. That is why the framers of the Constitution did not want a standing army or navy but a reliance on the militia. Government has grown as a result of wars hot and cold not because of some imaginary leftist plot. The contradiction is also at the root of the Republican party’s difficulty in pleasing the bomb-em all crowd and the let’s burn down the library loony libertarian group.
73. Kipling
A third party will work and does work in many place including some states here in the good old US of A. This fundamental shift in how Congress will do business in the future only takes a small minority of strong fiscal conservatives that filter all the BS in Washington through a Constitutional screen. If neither party can pass legislation without this minority then a lot of this very bad stuff we have been seeing would never get passed. We would never had TARP or GM Takeovers. We need to remember that majority wins and if you have enough sane people to say no to craziness then you don’t get crazy. This Conservatives would be emboldened to stop the madness in the name of the people. They would not have to follow the RINO or Democrat party line, but would be held responsible for their actions by the people that elected them not the party machines. Sure they wouldn’t be committee heads, but they would be able to stop Crap and Trade, Obamacare, and additional stimulus. Gridlock can be a good thing when it protects us from bad government.
The Republicans have had their chance. In fact they have had many chances. It is time for them to merge with their big brothers, the Democrats. This will allow room for a true conservative party to emerge.
74. Do a little research and you will see the opposite. The biggest federal expense used to be the military, now it is entitlements. Seriously, just look at the numbers for the last 50+ years and you will see military spending has oscillated between 300-450 billion in constant dollars,and has decreased from almost 10% of GDP to 3% of GDP.
During the same time period entitlements rose from less than 3% of GDP to nearly 9% of GDP. So, it would appear your statement is 100% incorrect.
goy, I find most of your comments wonderfully insightful, well reasoned, and enjoyable to consider. Your last post though, seemed out of character to me. Let me go through it with you.
BTW, a GDI is a “G-d D— Independent”, a phrase from folks of my vintage from years ago, that signified that we would not march in lockstep behind an idea or concept with which we did not agree…solely because some party wonk put it down in a political playbook someplace. We decide each issue on its own merits. The frustration we feel is the lack of a voice in the political process, which has become a food fight for imbeciles.
We are misunderstood and misrepresented repeatedly. Because we don’t attach blindly to a “side” on ALL issues…we are slandered by those with malevolent intent and those who don’t know any better.
We aren’t “mushy”…far from it. We simply can’t stand the weak leadership and often non-existent reasoning behind the “positions” taken by the shepherds and their sheep.
Because I think quite highly of you, I want to go through with you what you had written, since it applies to the above sentiments.
“Independents” – the vast, mushy ‘middle’ that ultimately decides every election and thus, sadly, defines our national polity – no longer has any identifiable principles.
This statement is a common one, goy…but it mistakes or conflates results with intentions. I DO believe that GDI’s ultimately decide national elections. But, don’t think for a minute that GDI’s have no identifiable principles…they simply have no good options or better stated…no party to express them.
Since we don’t march in lockstep, it is HARDER to be sure, to pigeonhole our principles as “one” thing. The whole notion of being a GDI, is to NOT take a “position” from someone else’s pre-masticated plate.
The GDI “principles” may FEEL “mushy”…simply because this nation rocks back and forth from one party to the next…as we “throw the bums out, and bring in the new bums”. The two party system is broken. Badly.
Republicans are stupefyingly weak at articulating ideas, they have been outmaneuvered, outflanked, outsized, and are so marginalized…that they have allowed themselves to be made into a caricature by leftists. The national party is a cosmic joke of epic proportions. They are floundering, looking for a position to take that will resonate with “enough” voters to keep themselves “in the game”.
What they should be doing instead, is galvanizing this nation around the notion that rampant, unchecked leftism…is a disease of distortion and corruption…and EVERYONE who doesn’t like that…should stand together against it.
If they’re at all ‘libertarian’, it’s only to the extent that they want to be left alone to pursue their lives with minimum tax expense and yet enjoy maximum, government- or employer-subsidized entitlement, oblivious to the fact that those entitlements are ultimately funded by Other People’s Money.
Not sure where this stems from. Statistically speaking, GDI’s are well educated, overwhelmingly professional in their careers, do NOT take government handouts…don’t want them, and PAY taxes…but think the system is largely wasteful and ill conceived.
“Independents” are politically cynical and, thus, gullible and easily manipulated due to their self-absorbed, disengaged, and television-addicted existence. They vote as they’re told by current pop culture and whichever infomart already has a grip on their short (apolitical) attention span.
Quite the contrary, GDI’s are hardly gullible nor easily manipulated…and are not AT ALL “disengaged”. They are left with two crappy choices time after time after time…and are FORCED to choose one. And one man’s devotion to facts…is another man’s cynicism, I suppose. If a GDI doesn’t feel represented by either party, then he has three choices. If he holds his nose and votes for one or the other crappy choice, he is called a cynic by the losing side. If he sits out the election, he is called a cynic by both sides. And, if he tries to run his own candidate…the system grinds him down…and both sides call him a “spoiler”.
For the moment and the foreseeable future, that’s primarily The Left Wing Media Establishment, in all of its various forms.
True enough. What I call the “entrenched” media…has a stranglehold on the mass production of “news”…in post-modern America, what is now essentially a leftist distortion filter of facts, mass produced as a propaganda vehicle for the left. And, yes…SOME GDI’s still get their information from a stolen and gang raped information stream. It DOES have an impact on which “bums” they vote in and out of national office.
For Republicans, this is starting every game…with the crooked refs aligned against them. There should be moral outrage over this by any American with a conscience. NO one side should be able to steal and distort our information stream. EVERY person…should be enraged by that…even the one who “benefits”….today. Tomorrow, the shoe may be on the other foot…and those who smirk and throw knowing glances at each other because they are “winning” a rigged game, would be screaming bloody murder if the game was rigged against them. The “New Big Lie” is when these smirking cretins deny, with the appropriate straight face…that there even IS a rigged game. Pure sophistry, despicable lack of conscience, moral cowardice…lack of a soul.
But Republicans have a bit of a share in the outcome, even recognizing that they start with such a huge disadvantage. They SUCK at articulating…well,…virtually everything. The reason Reagan was so vastly popular was based upon his ability to communicate, articulate, present…ideas that resonated with GDI’s. That is completely lost in the Republican party now. There was no “mushy-ness” there and then.
Without firm, decisive action aimed at undoing the corruption of elected office, academia and the media, the notion that conservatives will ever accomplish more than the relentless, pendulum-swinging march toward collectivist social suicide is laughable. “Independents” comprise those who either have yet to be indoctrinated into the leftist, entitlement mindset or have yet to be educated regarding their rights and responsibilities in a nation defined by the Republican form of Government guaranteed by our Constitution.
Independents or more specifically GDI’s…are those who are not going to be indoctrinated…into anything. Ever. Again, that’s not a lack of “principle”…that’s not “mushy”…that’s a group of intelligent people not wanting to become someone else’s sheep herd. Not wanting to be TOLD what opinion to hold, because that’s our “herd’s bleat”. “That’s how we baaaa over here.”
Leftists march in lockstep…and you can’t DARE to hold a differing opinion (see Joe Lieberman…even Hillary in the primaries)
Now, a very vocal segment of the right wants to march in lockstep as well. Talk about suicide. “If you don’t hold THIS opinion…we don’t want you in our tent!” If leftism is the disease, if the information stream is distorting facts and the game is rigged…then the answer is to outflank THEM…not continue to be outflanked.
By spitting in the face of GDI’s…the only link to overcoming the gang rape of our information stream is broken. And then you truly can say:
Conservatives – with or without the Republican party – won’t succeed at preserving the Republic until that fact is acknowledged and addressed.
n&t: Oh please. You are such a simple fool. Do you think I give a flying rats a$$ what you call me or how you label me. I could care less if you lable me anti-semetic, racist or whatever.
What you are doing, and is the hallmark of the left, is the last refuge of a person who is in way over their head and cannot or does not have the intellectual or creative ability to debate, rationally.
Since you have nothing to add to the conversation you resort to personal attacks like the one you did on Beck and his son. You vile tool.
Grow up. But I am honored that you quoted me. That tells me I am in your brain, eh, mind, oh rats, head.
cfbleachers: I too enjoy reading your posts, but I have some quarrel with some of your explanations of independents
“We aren’t “mushy”…far from it. We simply can’t stand the weak leadership and often non-existent reasoning behind the “positions” taken by the shepherds and their sheep. And yet independents voted for Obama. How does that square with this statement? You joined the sheep voting for all his “non-existent reasoning” behind his glactically stupid positions.
“GDI’s are hardly gullible nor easily manipulated.” Yet you fell for Obama in great enough numbers to elect him over the middle of the road McLame. Can you tell us why indys did not vote for the man many claimed to be middle of the road-McLame?
“Now, a very vocal segment of the right wants to march in lockstep as well.” For pete’s sake, at some time you have to take a stand. Either you are for America or against her. Either you walk in step with those on the right who see America as the best hope for this world, or you see America as a horrible experiment that needs to be destroyed.
Voting for or siding with a party is not walking in lockstep. I am a committed conservative yet I differ greatly with the GOP and in some cases what other conservatives support. It is your indifference I think that has led to Obama getting elected.
And just what are the policies of the right that are so offensive to you? Abortion?
To PJM readers,
Ladies and gentlemen grow up please. Debate, dissension, a disagreement are good things. Not just in the bigger world but here as well. However, you’re never going to learn anything if all you do is insult someone. If you disagree with a certain position, then find proof to support a counter argument. If someone is misquoting you, correct the record. And if someone is lying, point out specifically what he/she is lying about. These personal attacks against one another serve no purpose. State your point and then provide evidence to back it up.
Sandy Salt,
Excellent post on #75. The marketplace of ideas (and parties) is the solution to our countries political problems
blotto…you may be a recent PJM commenter…if you read anything I wrote during the campaign, you would know that not all independents fell for the rhetoric…if there was a way to show you my comments, I think you would agree.
But, many looked at McCain and saw a bumbling, stumbling, rambling campaign. I didn’t like many of either of their ideas or platforms.
I saw both as weak leaders…and thought their reasoning on several issues was beyond ignorance. On balance, I thought that the Obama administration was far more unvetted and unknown…but gave off several extremely troubling signs and signals.
I wrote consistently about those things.
But, the entrenched media did the country an enormous disservice and basically stole the election for Obama. They watered down every negative and they pumped up every positive. For independents who still get their “news” and “facts” from the entrenched media…it had an impact. More than the difference between a McCain win and loss.
However, you should make a distinction for me, if you would. GDI’s are a type of independent. (Just as there are faith-based conservatives and non-faith based, I suppose). GDI’s did NOT FALL for the rhetoric and did NOT vote for the Obama administration. Other independents did, however.
Those that did, held their noses and tried to believe the “centrist” act. They were duped.
I do NOT agree, however, blotto…that one has to accept EVERY tenet of the conservative platform…and stand behind it…in an either/or manner.
I take issue by issue and decide what makes sense. I despise leftism…actually despise all forms of extremism. If that leaves me out of the tent…then I think the conservatives are making an enormous mistake.
I don’t ask them to change their platform, I only ask that they align with natural allies.
Don’t mistake my issue by issue resolutions to be “indifference”. If you go back and read my comments over the past several months, I’m hardly “indifferent”. I just refuse to have my food chewed for me and don’t want my opinions spoon fed from some political playbook.
As a GDI, I recoil from being given “forced choices”. Leftism is a disease and needs to be dealt with, immediately. But, if forced between one lockstep march and another…I just say no. Let me be an ally against leftism, don’t lock me out of the tent…just because I refuse to align with every single issue…is all I’m saying.
83: “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice”. Where did I that before? He was the first victim of the media smear machine. I wonder what life would have been had he won that election. I think he might have won it had Kennedy not received what he was dishing out. The assassin was assassinated.
clfbleachers: Okay. But enough-semantics aside-indys voted for the Messiah and he is now ruining out nation. So you and you fellow GDIs better get with the program.
I will always disapprove of abortion and gay marriage. I do not separate fiscal from social views as a conservative. The GOP is abandoning that platform in favor of a more centrist and indy comporting one. But that will alienate us conservatives. And the left will win in perpetuity.
If abortion and gay marriage mean more to you than America then we are all doomed. We are the best chance you and libertarians have at living in a limited-governing nation where liberty and freedom is unabridged; a nation that is fiscially prudent, morally centered and culturally sound.
Is believing that life is sacred an extreme view? Is believing that is is morally repugnant that a viable baby, born with the exception of its head and then killed an extreme view?
Is paying for the education, health care, and welfare of illegal aliens who could care less about being Americans more suitable to your sensibilities?
66. arhooley:
The next step is we keep talking about the PLEDGE until they ban us from the site, get our own columns on it on this site, or we somehow get it to be a main rallying point of the conservative/libertarian/teaparty movement.
We talk about it on every single new posting on this site for starts-and when one of us brings it up the rest of us jump on board for the conversation.
“Yet while our political parties increasingly divide themselves along ideological lines, those lines are not always straight.” Exactly. Straight ain’t a prereq. Heh!
Great blog, BTW. Cheers!
Now and Then, humans ARE naturally inclined toward evil. The evidence is prima facie that this is true. Unless you proactively override this tendency, the natural inclination of humans is to be greedy, lustful, spiteful liars. Which comes more naturally to a child? Sharing toys or stealing them? Talking out their differences or punching? This is not to say that children are evil; they don’t know any better. What I am saying is that the behavior of children is a proxy for natural human behavior, unrestrained by authority.
Any honest person will admit that the human heart is inherently corrupt; we would not have nearly so much crime or divorce if evil was an aberration rather than the default tendency of humans.
79. blotto:
“Since you have nothing to add to the conversation you resort to personal attacks like the one you did on Beck and his son.”
I didn’t know Beck had a son. And if he does, how did I attack him?
@78. cfbleachers: – I find most of your comments wonderfully insightful, well reasoned, and enjoyable to consider.
Well, the sentiment is mutual. Don’t let what I wrote concern you overly much. You can separate out from my rant those (few) who fit your description of politically aware/active “GDIs”.
Above I’ve probably conflated so-called “moderates”, “unaffiliateds”, “independents”, the “middle” and those who are just plain apathetic or ignorant of civics but who take up space and resources in society and vote anyway. Just write any confusion off to aggravation, annoyance and exasperation on my part.
- BTW, a GDI is a “G-d D— Independent”, …
Include me in the GDI crowd as well, then, although I don’t label myself “Independent” any more than any other political title.
GDI’s, as I understand your definition, would be in direct contrast with a good friend of ours who considers herself a “lifelong Democrat”, and who votes the party line irrespective of the facts. She goes to great lengths to rationalize the inconsistencies in arbitrarily voting Democrat and, for instance, has jumped high onto the socialized medicine bandwagon despite the fact that it’s never been an issue for her until the left made it one earlier this year. So I have first-hand experience with the lock-stepped-lemming-left you described.
- … the political process [has] has become a food fight for imbeciles.
Exactly. And this is precisely the aspect of all this that is so frustrating, annoying and exasperating.
- The GDI “principles” may FEEL “mushy”…simply because this nation rocks back and forth from one party to the next…
Well, from one party to the other, at least during the last century. And this is part of my point.
For a century, America has been ratcheting back-and-forth down a stack of Pachinko pegs toward one of 5 holes labeled “Xxxx-Socialism”. The two-party system is broken because no one understands or wants to take responsibility for fixing the underlying cause of the breakage. Running for office and/or supporting principled candidates (or even reconstructed parties) is no longer an effectual course. You declared as much by writing that “[t]he two party system is broken. Badly.”
It’s not specifically (only) the party system that’s broken, though, unfortunately. It’s the polity itself. In fact, we’ve identified the various ways in which this polity has become broken, but hardly anyone seems interested in taking steps to fix them. Rather, they want to “get back” political power, and now try to do this by reacting to and/or discrediting the hypocritical and/or logically flawed actions taken by their ostensible opponents. Your accurate characterization of the ineffectual Republican leadership is a perfect example of this. This is analogous to two nine-year-olds wrestling over the reins of an elephant they’re riding on – an elephant which is insane and long ago chewed through and spit out the bridle.
The problem is that the process of getting candidates elected and getting political power has now become an end unto itself and pursuit of the Republican form of Government guaranteed by our Constitution has become an afterthought, if that. I like you short definition of this: food fight. This is a type of war at which the leftist moral adolescent excels: s/he has no scruples – only a chimerical notion of ‘fairness’ that is driven by a narcissistic value system unfettered by any respect for authority or history (see myth buster’s #88 for a pretty accurate description).
The left is the portion of modern society that can’t or won’t grow up, morally, and that portion is increasing with each generation. The overarching challenge to “postmodern” society, if there is one, is how to address and correct this phenomenon before it drives the entire culture into social suicide over a few more generations – as it’s currently already doing in Europe. Politics isn’t going to do it.
- What they should be doing instead, is galvanizing this nation around the notion that rampant, unchecked leftism…is a disease of distortion and corruption…
Exactly. The question is how to do this. Clearly, we’re not going to cure the disease by treating the symptoms. Our political system and our broken economy are symptoms. The cause is much deeper.
- If he sits out the election, he is called a cynic by both sides. And, if he tries to run his own candidate…the system grinds him down…and both sides call him a “spoiler”.
I’ll reiterate here that the answer, IMHO, is no longer to be found in pursuing politics at this level.
- There should be moral outrage over this by any American with a conscience.
And yet there’s not. Why? Perhaps because the problem we’re trying to solve is much deeper than party politics and the media propaganda it requires. Those, again, are symptoms.
- Independents or more specifically GDI’s…are those who are not going to be indoctrinated…into anything. Ever. Again, that’s not a lack of “principle”…that’s not “mushy”…that’s a group of intelligent people not wanting to become someone else’s sheep herd.
True. And I’ve replied to this statement in particular to let you know I agree. See my first note on conflating independents with the herd. The problem is, again, that the group of people you’re describing here is a tiny minority of the electorate and, more importantly, an even tinier minority of the citizenry. GDIs don’t determine elections. These people do. Until this changes, conservatives can pursue any political, symptom-focused strategy they like. It won’t make any difference.
So… my apologies for not being clear. I will say this: I’m no longer optimistic about the Republic’s chances. Some people assume we passed a tipping point with the recent unpleasantness last Novemeber. I don’t. The tipping point was passed when Americans almost silently allowed their government to seize control over large portions of their economy and increase federal spending by an amount unprecedented in all of recorded history. In a society worthy of saving itself, these actions would have had people rioting in the streets and marching on D.C. by the millions. That didn’t happen.
As such, there is now virtually no leverage available to wrest back control over the three causal factors of the disease that is killing the Republic: corrupt academia, corrupt media and corrupt elected leaders. Any economic pressure brought to bear on these institutions by those who represent America’s shrinking conscience, in an effort to root out that corruption, will simply be cancelled out by the general government’s newly minted authority – which is to spend without restriction. That authority was handed to them by American citizens, who are now comprised mostly of shrill and/or irretrievably indoctrinated leftists, an enormous, amorphous “middle” that does what it’s told, and a marginalized, classical liberal minority who – if they see what’s really happening at all – waited far too long to do anything about it.
This will not end well.
Judge Land and now judge Carter, smack down the crazies (case dismissed), poor little Birthers.
Not even “Fake News” Bill O’Reilly believes the crazies, how funny.
http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/10/29/bill-oreilly-slams-orly-taitz/
To all the birthers in La, La Land, it is on you to prove to all of us that your assertion is true (TOUGH WHEN YOU KEEP LOSING CASES), if there are people who were there and support your position then show us the video (everyone has a price), either put up or frankly shut-up. I heard Orly Taitz, is selling a tape (I think it’s called “Money, Lies and Video tape”). She is from Orange County, CA, now I know what the mean when they say “behind the Orange Curtain”, when they talk about Orange County, the captial of Conspiracy Theories. You know Obama has a passport, he travel abroad before he was a Senator, but I guess they were in on it.
In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right (people who love to push their beliefs on others while trying to take away the rights of those they just hate) and that’s who they need to extract from their party if they real want to win. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”.
I heard that she now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC).