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	<title>Comments on: More 9/12 Crowd Data: Yeah, It Was Big</title>
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		<title>By: skylark</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-412012</link>
		<dc:creator>skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 19:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-412012</guid>
		<description>Well ELC, perhaps it is you with a comprehension problem.  I&#039;m SURE you&#039;re not making a deliberate attempt to deceive people.

Here is the comment of yours (@137) I was responding to:

&quot;It was the man’s personal impression, not the DC Fire Department’s estimate. Nor did that man stand by his estimate: when asked about it, he merely said it was an impressive crowd.&quot;

As I pointed out in my comment @ 157, it actually WAS the DC Fire Department&#039;s unofficial estimate.  

And contrary to your claim, he did not respond to a question about the estimate by &quot;merely saying it was an impressive crowd.&quot;  He responded to a question about the estimate by saying it was &quot;in no way an official estimate.&quot;  

His statement that it was &quot;an impressive crowd&quot; was in response to a question as to &quot;whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall.&quot;

Do try to keep your facts straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well ELC, perhaps it is you with a comprehension problem.  I&#8217;m SURE you&#8217;re not making a deliberate attempt to deceive people.</p>
<p>Here is the comment of yours (@137) I was responding to:</p>
<p>&#8220;It was the man’s personal impression, not the DC Fire Department’s estimate. Nor did that man stand by his estimate: when asked about it, he merely said it was an impressive crowd.&#8221;</p>
<p>As I pointed out in my comment @ 157, it actually WAS the DC Fire Department&#8217;s unofficial estimate.  </p>
<p>And contrary to your claim, he did not respond to a question about the estimate by &#8220;merely saying it was an impressive crowd.&#8221;  He responded to a question about the estimate by saying it was &#8220;in no way an official estimate.&#8221;  </p>
<p>His statement that it was &#8220;an impressive crowd&#8221; was in response to a question as to &#8220;whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do try to keep your facts straight.</p>
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		<title>By: ELC</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-409745</link>
		<dc:creator>ELC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-409745</guid>
		<description>@ Skylark (151): &quot;Unless the man was the one making the tweet estimate two days before, it was also the unofficial estimate of the fire department. And he did stand by it two days later, merely telling Politifact it was “unofficial.” He used the term “impressive” when asked a different question… comparing the crowd size to that in the 1997 picture.&quot;

Here is the quotation from the article you referenced. Piringer did not &quot;stand by&quot; anything; one cannot infer anything more than he acknowledged the numbers that had been given; and he was not commenting on the photograph or the crowd in the photograph: the writer asked him if he thought the crowd on 9/12 was as big as the one depicted in the photo. Here is the relevant part of the article:

&quot;Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

&#039;It was in no way an official estimate,&#039; he said.

We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.

&#039;It was an impressive crowd,&#039; he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd &#039;only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,&#039; he said.&quot;

Either you cannot, indeed, comprehend what you read, or you were making a deliberate attempt to deceive people in these comments: either way, I&#039;m wasting no more time on you.

Have a nice life. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Skylark (151): &#8220;Unless the man was the one making the tweet estimate two days before, it was also the unofficial estimate of the fire department. And he did stand by it two days later, merely telling Politifact it was “unofficial.” He used the term “impressive” when asked a different question… comparing the crowd size to that in the 1997 picture.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is the quotation from the article you referenced. Piringer did not &#8220;stand by&#8221; anything; one cannot infer anything more than he acknowledged the numbers that had been given; and he was not commenting on the photograph or the crowd in the photograph: the writer asked him if he thought the crowd on 9/12 was as big as the one depicted in the photo. Here is the relevant part of the article:</p>
<p>&#8220;Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.</p>
<p>&#8216;It was in no way an official estimate,&#8217; he said.</p>
<p>We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.</p>
<p>&#8216;It was an impressive crowd,&#8217; he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd &#8216;only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,&#8217; he said.&#8221;</p>
<p>Either you cannot, indeed, comprehend what you read, or you were making a deliberate attempt to deceive people in these comments: either way, I&#8217;m wasting no more time on you.</p>
<p>Have a nice life. <img src='http://pjmedia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Debbie Leonard</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-407942</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-407942</guid>
		<description>I think this picture should be available to be purchased by the public as a picture to frame, bumper stickers, postage stamps and many other ways to keep the word out...&quot;We The People&quot; and as We The People do make a differince standing together and united! We must never forget our Vetarans and the great things they did for each of us.

Although, I was unable to attend the 9/12/2009 march in Washington D.C., I thank those who were able to be there as they were there for me too!

God Bless America
(With out God&#039;s blessings, there is no America!)

Debbie Leonard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this picture should be available to be purchased by the public as a picture to frame, bumper stickers, postage stamps and many other ways to keep the word out&#8230;&#8221;We The People&#8221; and as We The People do make a differince standing together and united! We must never forget our Vetarans and the great things they did for each of us.</p>
<p>Although, I was unable to attend the 9/12/2009 march in Washington D.C., I thank those who were able to be there as they were there for me too!</p>
<p>God Bless America<br />
(With out God&#8217;s blessings, there is no America!)</p>
<p>Debbie Leonard</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-406710</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-406710</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read all the comments so maybe someone touched on this but what about all the other 9/12 protests across the nation.  I know they were happening all over the place.  There has been very little I&#039;ve seen in the media (obviously) about this either.  But I havn;t heard anything anything from more reliable news sources or talk radio about this fact either.  Just a thought to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read all the comments so maybe someone touched on this but what about all the other 9/12 protests across the nation.  I know they were happening all over the place.  There has been very little I&#8217;ve seen in the media (obviously) about this either.  But I havn;t heard anything anything from more reliable news sources or talk radio about this fact either.  Just a thought to consider.</p>
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		<title>By: emjem</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-403503</link>
		<dc:creator>emjem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-403503</guid>
		<description>I was there and took video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcQ8kmxrujs

Also, Metrorail ridership shows an increase of about 40,000 people that day.  If you go back to the Heritage Foundation post and read the ensuing discussion comments, you&#039;ll see he made some big mistakes (doubled the count by counting 1-way trips as one person, used a holiday weekend as the baseline number).  We don&#039;t really know how many of those 40K were going to the rally vs. the Black Family Reunion, but we do know it&#039;s the main mode of transportation into DC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was there and took video:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcQ8kmxrujs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcQ8kmxrujs</a></p>
<p>Also, Metrorail ridership shows an increase of about 40,000 people that day.  If you go back to the Heritage Foundation post and read the ensuing discussion comments, you&#8217;ll see he made some big mistakes (doubled the count by counting 1-way trips as one person, used a holiday weekend as the baseline number).  We don&#8217;t really know how many of those 40K were going to the rally vs. the Black Family Reunion, but we do know it&#8217;s the main mode of transportation into DC.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylark</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-403241</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-403241</guid>
		<description>I guess Charlie doesn&#039;t have an answer for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess Charlie doesn&#8217;t have an answer for me.</p>
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		<title>By: EyesOpened</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-401515</link>
		<dc:creator>EyesOpened</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-401515</guid>
		<description>This march on Washington is primarily about the reckless, out of control spending by the federal govt. If you really want to understand why it is happening then open your eyes and mind.

My eyes were opened when I first watched &quot;The Constitution Class&quot; series of videos by Michael Badnarik. Send all the links for them to your Congresspeople along with the link to this blog.  Here is the first one.... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5085838350268647159&amp;ei=sELlSfjQBYKGqQPE3O36Aw&amp;q=michael+badnarik&amp;emb=1# , google for the others. There are 7 of them, each approx. an hour long. You can download them.

I learned more about our Constitution and our country from these videos than I ever learned in school or in my whole life. I am now 53. Once I finished the series, I then looked to what our Govt. was currently doing. My eyes have been opened wide and I now can understand all that Mr. Beck has been trying to show us and what the dangers truly are. I think that these videos should be required viewing for all High School students across the nation. Especially now as they will be the &quot;new voting base&quot; in 2010. If your local teachers will not show them in your schools,  see about obtaining Mr. Badnarik as a speaker in your hometown. Share the above link with everyone you possibly can. If I tell two friends, who tell two friends....etc. 

To go about saving something, first you have to know what it is you are trying to save and why it matters so much! Educate our children, as they are the future of our country. I can now state that I am proud to be an &quot;American Citizen&quot; and not a &quot;U.S. Citizen&quot;. Watch the videos to know what the difference between the two are, and why, because it is very important to the future of this, our magnificent country! Thanks for reading this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This march on Washington is primarily about the reckless, out of control spending by the federal govt. If you really want to understand why it is happening then open your eyes and mind.</p>
<p>My eyes were opened when I first watched &#8220;The Constitution Class&#8221; series of videos by Michael Badnarik. Send all the links for them to your Congresspeople along with the link to this blog.  Here is the first one&#8230;. <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5085838350268647159&#038;ei=sELlSfjQBYKGqQPE3O36Aw&#038;q=michael+badnarik&#038;emb=1#" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5085838350268647159&#038;ei=sELlSfjQBYKGqQPE3O36Aw&#038;q=michael+badnarik&#038;emb=1#</a> , google for the others. There are 7 of them, each approx. an hour long. You can download them.</p>
<p>I learned more about our Constitution and our country from these videos than I ever learned in school or in my whole life. I am now 53. Once I finished the series, I then looked to what our Govt. was currently doing. My eyes have been opened wide and I now can understand all that Mr. Beck has been trying to show us and what the dangers truly are. I think that these videos should be required viewing for all High School students across the nation. Especially now as they will be the &#8220;new voting base&#8221; in 2010. If your local teachers will not show them in your schools,  see about obtaining Mr. Badnarik as a speaker in your hometown. Share the above link with everyone you possibly can. If I tell two friends, who tell two friends&#8230;.etc. </p>
<p>To go about saving something, first you have to know what it is you are trying to save and why it matters so much! Educate our children, as they are the future of our country. I can now state that I am proud to be an &#8220;American Citizen&#8221; and not a &#8220;U.S. Citizen&#8221;. Watch the videos to know what the difference between the two are, and why, because it is very important to the future of this, our magnificent country! Thanks for reading this.</p>
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		<title>By: REDBALL6</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-401187</link>
		<dc:creator>REDBALL6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-401187</guid>
		<description>I would like to say how enthralled I am not only by the outpouring of patriotism of 9/12/09 but by the almost complete common sense, mature comments of the the posters to this article. The comments have been made, keep it up. Yes keep it up. That &quot;O&quot; clock is running to 11/2/10. 
The liberal-leftist and outright socialist and even (so it appears) communists in  D.C.  ought to know a long term lease is not in their interest. Friends be aware their arrogance and dismissiveness of all things center right, as this will cause them to reach again to a manufactured crisis, we may all have to come back again  short of the 11/2/10 date. 

Manufacturing crises is a way of distraction, and the old media-the &quot;O&quot; media will play this all the time. We definitely have work to do especially as pertains to  finding our candidates. I am hopeful you folks in Ohio and Illinois will help lead the way. We will see if the tone changes, but I am guessing it makes no difference to &quot;US&quot; the Tea Party.  a large number of folks have to go home.  

If I may one  final thought, we must NOT! NOT! let subterfuge (from any quarter) distract us  into any type of thinking about a third party. That will spell disaster. Lady Sarah, or Mr. Mitt, or Mayor Giuliani or any of our other national or well know regional leaders are where we must put our focus. Now a little twist on my sign off (please excuse the ego) everyone of us
 &quot;Check 6&#039; , yup startin to look pretty good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to say how enthralled I am not only by the outpouring of patriotism of 9/12/09 but by the almost complete common sense, mature comments of the the posters to this article. The comments have been made, keep it up. Yes keep it up. That &#8220;O&#8221; clock is running to 11/2/10.<br />
The liberal-leftist and outright socialist and even (so it appears) communists in  D.C.  ought to know a long term lease is not in their interest. Friends be aware their arrogance and dismissiveness of all things center right, as this will cause them to reach again to a manufactured crisis, we may all have to come back again  short of the 11/2/10 date. </p>
<p>Manufacturing crises is a way of distraction, and the old media-the &#8220;O&#8221; media will play this all the time. We definitely have work to do especially as pertains to  finding our candidates. I am hopeful you folks in Ohio and Illinois will help lead the way. We will see if the tone changes, but I am guessing it makes no difference to &#8220;US&#8221; the Tea Party.  a large number of folks have to go home.  </p>
<p>If I may one  final thought, we must NOT! NOT! let subterfuge (from any quarter) distract us  into any type of thinking about a third party. That will spell disaster. Lady Sarah, or Mr. Mitt, or Mayor Giuliani or any of our other national or well know regional leaders are where we must put our focus. Now a little twist on my sign off (please excuse the ego) everyone of us<br />
 &#8220;Check 6&#8242; , yup startin to look pretty good.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylark</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-401130</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 05:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-401130</guid>
		<description>Another example for Charlie -

Let&#039;s see, we know the DC Metro train crash occurred on June 22 at about 5pm.

&quot;The collision and derailment occurred at about 5 p.m. local time between the Takoma and Fort Totten stations, Metro said in a statement.&quot;

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=aDEOYPitJJyE


&quot;The crash around 5 p.m. EDT took place on the system&#039;s red line, Metro&#039;s busiest, which runs below ground for much of its length but is at ground level at the accident site near the Maryland border in northeast Washington.&quot;

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528203,00.html



Yet the DC Fire Department was tweeting about it two hours before it happened, if you go by the time stamp:

&quot;5800 2nd st ne - metro collision - near ft. totten metro - several injuries. fd involved in rescues. .... 3:16 PM Jun 22nd from mobile web&quot;

http://twitter.com/dcfireems/status/2285547558
-------------------------------------------------------

Should I look for more?  This is kinda fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example for Charlie -</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see, we know the DC Metro train crash occurred on June 22 at about 5pm.</p>
<p>&#8220;The collision and derailment occurred at about 5 p.m. local time between the Takoma and Fort Totten stations, Metro said in a statement.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=aDEOYPitJJyE" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#038;sid=aDEOYPitJJyE</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The crash around 5 p.m. EDT took place on the system&#8217;s red line, Metro&#8217;s busiest, which runs below ground for much of its length but is at ground level at the accident site near the Maryland border in northeast Washington.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528203,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528203,00.html</a></p>
<p>Yet the DC Fire Department was tweeting about it two hours before it happened, if you go by the time stamp:</p>
<p>&#8220;5800 2nd st ne &#8211; metro collision &#8211; near ft. totten metro &#8211; several injuries. fd involved in rescues. &#8230;. 3:16 PM Jun 22nd from mobile web&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://twitter.com/dcfireems/status/2285547558" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/dcfireems/status/2285547558</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Should I look for more?  This is kinda fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylark</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/more-912-crowd-data-yeah-it-was-big/#comment-401106</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=67154#comment-401106</guid>
		<description>PS to Charlie Martin -

I suppose it&#039;s worth pointing out that the Fire Department tweet was also time stamped two hours BEFORE the Coast Guard exercise even began:

&quot;He described the exercise, which started at 9:30 a.m., as a &#039;low tempo&#039; drill.&quot;

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/coast.guard.potomac.2.1177481.html




&quot;During the exercise, which began about 9:30 a.m., four 25-foot patrol craft churned up the surface of the river while a Coast Guard helicopter zoomed low overhead.&quot;

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.coastguard12sep12,0,255532.story


&quot;The Coast Guard began the drill at 9:30 a.m., five minutes after Obama arrived at the Pentagon for ceremonies keyed to 9:37 a.m. - the time of the 9/11 attack.&quot;

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.coastguard12sep12,0,255532.story</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS to Charlie Martin -</p>
<p>I suppose it&#8217;s worth pointing out that the Fire Department tweet was also time stamped two hours BEFORE the Coast Guard exercise even began:</p>
<p>&#8220;He described the exercise, which started at 9:30 a.m., as a &#8216;low tempo&#8217; drill.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/coast.guard.potomac.2.1177481.html" rel="nofollow">http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/coast.guard.potomac.2.1177481.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;During the exercise, which began about 9:30 a.m., four 25-foot patrol craft churned up the surface of the river while a Coast Guard helicopter zoomed low overhead.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.coastguard12sep12,0,255532.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.coastguard12sep12,0,255532.story</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The Coast Guard began the drill at 9:30 a.m., five minutes after Obama arrived at the Pentagon for ceremonies keyed to 9:37 a.m. &#8211; the time of the 9/11 attack.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.coastguard12sep12,0,255532.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.coastguard12sep12,0,255532.story</a></p>
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