Meet Rahm Emanuel’s Brother: Dr. Zeke the Bleak
Earlier this month (“ObamaCare as a Moral Clunker”), I wrote that there are three insurmountable moral objections to the president’s and Democrats’ versions of mislabeled “health care reform”:
- They are all designed and destined to ration care. This will lead, as it has in state-run systems virtually everywhere, to long waits for even critical services. In Tuesday’s Wall Street Journal, Harvard professor and chairman of President Ronald Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisers Martin Feldstein confirmed this obvious and inconvenient truth, writing that “rationing health care is central to President Barack Obama’s health plan.”
- Under the idea of “Comparative Effectiveness Research” (CER), which has already been funded to the tune of over $1 billion, the inevitable and unavoidable rationing just described would more than likely be carried out under a regime of care denial driven by age-based and “quality of life” criteria. This will, formally or informally, lead to a system similar to that found in the UK, where its National Health Service, under the concept of “Quality-Adjusted Life Years” (QALY), won’t pay for medical procedures that “cost” more than $50,000 for each year of additional life expected to be gained (“cost” is in quotes because I believe that such “costs” are often overloaded with fixed overhead that largely should not be relevant to such decisions).
- The people who would be in charge of implementing a state-controlled system, which remains the objective of President Obama and Congress as long as they seek any kind of “public option” or government-managed “co-operative” set-up, have viewpoints that are ethically questionable at best and morally abhorrent at worst.
The administration appears to be trying to allay the justifiable concerns about Item 3 and seems to believe that if it can do that, Americans won’t be as worried about Items 1 and 2. Sadly, despite the worldwide track record of state-run and state-controlled systems, there is some plausibility to this strategy. Even with the vocal and growing opposition to ObamaCare as a whole, Rasmussen reports that “57% oppose the plan if it doesn’t include a government-run health insurance plan to compete with private insurers.”
This is where Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (“Zeke”), brother of President Obama’s Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, comes in.
Zeke has been and apparently still is chair of the Clinical Center Department of Bioethics at the National Institutes of Health, where he is still listed as an employee. I have confirmed that Zeke is still employed there. He has been with the Obama administration as health policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget since February, and is a member of the Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.
Hmm. He’s a busy guy. I wonder how many taxpayer-funded income streams he receives.
A circus/cycle of life panel might consider child birth to be a high-risk condition.
Women 17 to 60 could be eliminated from the cycle of life program and save the government billions.
Obamas lefty libtard environmentalist would love to see more green with less humans cluttering up the landscape.
Most new Bambie green cars won’t have room for baby seats anyway.
/Lets remove Bambie and his Circus Clowns power 2010.
Okay, now all that needs done is to figure out how to change the equally contorted and twisted minds of 50 to 60 million Democrat voters that either think just like Obama, the Emanuel brothers, Reverend Wright, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, among others.
Were this not true there would be no reason to even discuss; much less have to worry about the afflicted, sick minded crap Obama, Zeke Emanuel and the whole lot of them try to ram down the throat of our nation 24/7/365.
Americans said that they wanted hope and change. It is clear they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Dr. Emanuel takes different tacks as the wind changes, but he always has the same base course; rationing healthcare to those who fit his definition of “worthy”.
His definition seems to consist of “wage earners or those with the immediate prospect of becoming wage earners, all of whom can be expected to contribute to the tax base in the near term”.
His “disinclination” to treat the young when immunization is the subject shows that he values his personal dogma over facts- the fact being that early immunization, where feasible, is still the best preventive measure against communicable disease. (One wonders if he received the Salk vaccine against polio as a child.)
Injecting the word “communitarian” into everything he promotes shows that he probably doesn’t understand the basic flaw in communitarianism, i.e. that it works better at the micro scale than the macro scale. This has been proven over and over again, going back to the Oneida community in the 1800s. Of course, socialism of any type works better when everybody involved knows everybody else anyway, which rather mandates a micro application. But I wouldn’t expect him to understand that, either, as one of the fundamental flaws of socialist thought is the idea that nothing less than absolute hegemony is acceptable. “Live and let live” has never been part of the socialist philosophy- which is yet another reason that as a rule, socialists don’t make good neighbors. (The fact that you may not be a socialist tends to make them cranky.)
Overall, Dr. Emanuel strikes me as yet another example of what’s wrong with the Obama Administration. Namely, that it’s full of people who are convinced that they are so smart, so brilliant, and so utterly infallible that they can make something like socialized medicine work when everyone else who has tried it has failed- on the principle that they are simply too smart to make mistakes of any kind.
It apparently does not occur to them that the reason such systems consistently fail isn’t that those trying to make them work made mistakes, but that the system concept itself is invalid.
I’m tempted to ask them if they think the phlogiston theory of combustion deserves “another look”.
clear ether
eon
“rationing health care is central to President Barack Obama’s health plan.”
This is the blunt truth even if those advocating Obama’s health plan lie to themselves. They might be sincere—but the ultimate financial reality will compel them to institute a severe system of rationing. In one way or another, there will also be some sort of death panel. It may euphemistically be called something else. Nevertheless, there will be a group of professionals deciding who lives or dies. Individuals like Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel should scare the hell out of you. It is most disturbing to observe someone who seems utterly incapable of following their own arguments to their logical conclusion.
Dr. Emanuel like all “chartologists” (doctors who don’t actually speak to or touch patients and aren’t engaged in the actual practice of medicine)often conflate the treatment of an individual with that of the health of a population. It is OK for example to allocate a scarce resource like a vaccine to those individuals who research has shown will get the most benefit from and will also stop the epidemic that threatens the population. What may not work for a population in terms of cost-effectiveness (ie, chemotherapy, bypass surgery, dialysis, and etc) may indeed by the most appropriate and cost effective for the individual patient. Who should decide? The bureaucratic chartologist or the doctor and the patient. That is the risk in government controlled medicine. It is also the difference between the liberal ideology of equality (all of us equally miserable)verses the conservative ideal of liberty to make our own choices about living and dying.
Zeke took the “Hypocritic Oath” and his words are proof. Would hate to see this guy in the ER ordering caskets not gurneys.
Zeke has the same narcissistic characteristics as his brother and Barry and when they show as prominently as they do now, it’s always someone else’s fault when they don’t get their own way. Their words should make you vomit.
If this is the change people wanted, may God Bless America and rid us of them before the light turns green.
I know several hundred MDs (through work) and have never heard any of them say anything like what Zeke has written and said. I certainly hope he has not continued to practice, it is one thing to have such ideas in the academic world and quite another to provide substandard care to patients who don’t fit his life cycle models.
Is he really advocating health care Darwinism? Is Dr. Zeke a one man life and death panel? Some think these decisions belong with God…Dr. Zeke better be careful, Obama seems to consider that his realm.
“The mere prospect that such people might someday, . . . “nationalize your body” should be enough to persuade anyone that any and all attempts at enhancing state power over our health care system must be stopped once and for all.”
That’s fine, the bean counter mentality does not belong in health care decisions. So, who makes those decisions?
What is need is well written legislation that has no ambiguities and serves the patients.
the whole crew in the present white house are deceitful and dangerous.
after gutting the economy they are going to try to completely take over the medical industry. which will of course just add more misery to the citizens of the USA.
there seems to be absolutely no upside to anything these clowns are doing.
they all seem to have nasty histories …conflicts of intrests …failure to pay taxes. … overt racism …the list is just too incredible. THIS IS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE USA ?????
You touched tangentially upon two points that lie naggingly below the surface.
1.) With this talk of rationing, the assumption of the liberal care plan is a zero sum game. Since when is capitalism subject to zero sum solutions? As soon as the government gets involved a zero sum paradigm is created.
2.) I find it troubling that liberals miss the point of how medicine advances, by trial and error. Patients who are terminally ill due to the CURRENT state of medical technology are the sources of innovation and inspiration for better treatments. In short, a government bureaucratic solution using outcome based medicine maybe financially cost effective initially but costly to society indefinitely. The bureaucracy ALWAYS stiffles creatively by it’s very definition. Following the current “best practice” NEVER leads to a more effective practice since it is committed to following the existing ones.
This is fundamentally a story about ethics. The question one has to ask is how did a Jew like Ezkiel Emanual become a proponent of a medical care regime that Henrich Himmler would applaud. The entire idea of “QALY” based system smacks of disposing of the “lives unworthy of living” criteria established by Nazi Germany.” Is there a Rabbi in America who will step up and condemn Dr. Emanual to the Jewsish community?
Once a doctor moves from doing what is necessary to save a life and instead focuses on how best to serve society by ending them, they should be considered mentally ill and have their license revoked. There is NO excuse for a Dr. (or a President) to take on the role of God.
I guess the good Dr. got his ethics from the same CrackerJacks box as our current President.
RE # 1/Nobama 2012: [...] They suggest a “cycle of life” priority that gives preference to people 13 to 40 years old — as long as they are reasonably healthy. If they have high-risk conditions that make them a lower bet for a long life, they drop down on the priority list. [...]
Since AIDS can be reasonably considered as caused by a high-risk behavioral condition, shouldn’t homosexuals be placed high on Obama’s list of disposable people?
RE # 1/Nobama 2012: [...] They suggest a “cycle of life” priority that gives preference to people 13 to 40 years old — as long as they are reasonably healthy. If they have high-risk conditions that make them a lower bet for a long life, they drop down on the priority list. [...]
Since AIDS can be reasonably considered as caused by a high-risk behavioral condition, shouldn’t homosexuals be placed high on Obama’s list of disposable people?
… and further, shouldn’t we expect from such a collectivist and utilitarian mind-set like Obama’s that has came with such a horror like this “medical bill”, shouldn’t we expect it expanding in a sort of “human body/ public domain” type of thing requesting mandatory organs harvesting from those deemed too costly to be maintained alive?
This is not such a stretch of imagination -
Vivo- “That’s fine…”
Hold the phones!!! You actually AGREE with a point made here in an article on PJM????
That you seem to acknowledge there’s a problem with the “concept”, yet place your faith in the wackos and socialists in Congress and the White House to come up with “well written legislation that has no ambiguities and serves the patients” is either foolishness or naive in the extreme…
Oh, but them I forgot…you’re a liberal.
Reread the article again….THESE ARE the kind of people who will help write the legislation and make the final decisions…even AFTER it may pass….and belive me, there is a HUGE gap between the words in a bill and the actual implementation!
It should scare the hell out of you!
I can’t say that Blumer’s misrepresentations (i.e., lies) about Dr. Emanuel reach a new low. For this site, they’re par for the course. But it is sickening to see a schtunk like Blumer malign a man who’s devoted his life to public service and wrestled – and continues to wrestle – with some of the thorniest ethical issues in medicine.
#13 & 14-
Great catch- I can’t wait until the LGBT figure that out!
Zeke has not been thoroughly indoctrinated by the administration; he forgot to include the SEIU Goons and Acorn Thugs as high priority patients. Perhaps the administration doesn’t want this to leak out this early in their version of National Socialism Health Care.
Thank God these people are so incompetent and utterly devoid of common sense; otherwise, they might be able to implement this insanity and convince the Lemmings and Useful Idiots that it is a good idea, part of the hope and change BS.
Sure, Zeke (“Dr. Mengele”) Emanuel’s philosophy will govern the health care rationing for seniors and, thus, ObamaCare’s death panels.
The key point that Tom has overlooked is the massive federal administration that would be set up to implement Dr. Mengele’s plan.
There will be thousands of former community organizers from the inner cities who will draw a good salary and, each year, be eligible for an additional lump sum bonus payment, based on performance.
Thus, the grossly overweight, Director of the Pulmonary Care Program for the Southern District of Indiana (a former ACORN worker with an associate’s degree in cosmetology) would earn 5% of her gross salary if she spends not more than 5% of the budgeted amount but 10% of her gross salary if she spends the budgeted amount or less, has an economic interest in pulling the plug on grannie.
And, since every other democrat government person is making big non-salary bucks from federal employment, it is bye-bye grannie!
Following Zeke’s logic, attempting chemo for liver cancer would have been abandoned and it’s likely that the idea of trying HAI might never have been conceived.
This is exactly the kind of narrow vision that becoming to be an irksome and dangerous feature of today’s Luddite-inspired Left. They should get the hell out of the way and let people with vision on how to solve these problems take the lead (and, yes, I’m aware that we ultimately all die and there’s no known solution to that “problem” and probably never will be).
dscott,
I think you and I are in definite agreement. There are two different worldviews at play here. One open to the possibilities of the future and the other unwilling to see anything but the current costs.
No health care to patient with dementia.
And I presume that whoever opposes this communist administration is a patient with dementia.
Commies are always commies, they always end up with reasons to kill some millions of people, like the nazis.
Until now they have been busy finding reasons to kill ten of millions of babies, now they are busy finding new reasons to kill the elderly and the sick.
“Killing fields”, the best product of socialists (national-socialist, internationalist-socialist, same killing fields).
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Those of us on this track are “evil-mongers” as defined by Mr. Harry Reid. Yes, Mr Reid, not senator as he doesn’t represent 70% of we Nevadans, nor deserve the respect. We are evil because we question ethics and logic, and as I said earlier, all of those in power are narcissistic and can’t take criticism or have their ideas challenged.
We are in deep trouble as a nation when led by terror-loving apologists, liars, ethically-challenged, tax cheats, crooks and those from the Dr. Mengala school of medicine.
Say no to Obamacare and start cheering for Obamagone in 2012. We’re hoping to make Reid-be-gone in 2010.
Anyone who continues to recycle this lie, doesn’t deserve even a smidge of politeness. Such a person needs to be called out directly as one of two things–either an unprincipled, lying manipulator, or a total gullible idiot. I’ve read the article that this disgusting rumor is based on. Its an article about the ethical implications of rationing that occurs under our current system–for drugs during pandmeics, triage during disasters and organ replacement.
Anyone who continues to believe this lie at this point is either a gullible fool or a willing accomplice in slander.
Folks,
the trolls tell you that it’s all a lie, you don’t need to read the article and its circumstantial evidence , quotations and references.
Folks,
be prudent, don’t read what the trolls tell you not to read,
OTHERWISE
those nice little barracks of the re-educations camps will be all yours
OR WORSE,
you could be diagnosed with dementia and the president who says that he “co-operates” with God in matters of life and death could “heal” you FOREVER AND EVER…
Thank you for the opportunity to comment
PS
And don’t forget the other great “right wing nut” lies:
the lagers of stalin
the killing fields of Cambodia
the boat people fleeing from the “liberated” Vietnam
all lies, damned lies of the reactionaries.
A few hundred millions people killed here and there for the greater good of the human kind.
And a few tens of millions of babies murdered under the name of “freedom of choice”.
So essentially, the health care bill, as it currently is written, is just another “outcome based” philosophy?
Well, there you go! We all know how well “outcome based” education has worked. It was just another mamby-pamby liberal ideology that, when put into actual practice, was a complete and utter failure at actually educating children.
Medical science is still, after all is analyzed, a “guess and by golly” game. How many people do you know, who were given their metaphorical “pink card” after some dire diagnosis, rebounded and defeated the disease? And nearly always at the surprise of their physicians.
There is not one human being on this earth who can “predict” the outcome of any one individual’s prognosis – not even with the help of comparative outcome data. The reason is very simple: our health is intrinsically joined to our personality and character. Read the stats and they’ll tell you that people with a more positive outlook on life tend to recover more rapidly than those who have a more negative outlook (ie: one can either choose to die of cancer, or live with cancer).
Yes, Sherab. Apparently we were just doing some weeding in the Vietnamese garden. Not one dead person there by an American hand, nope. Same with all of our wars. People only die in other people’s wars, not ours.
I’m sure there are some, but most of them (especially reform) are busy whacking off thinking about this partnership in life and death thing. How intoxicating; promoting yourself to demigod status. What narcissist can possibly resist?
DNFTT
#27 MOJON: I seem to recall that half-million Americans died to end slavery in our civil war,not to mention the other half million killed destroying Nazism and Japanese fascism.You have quite a selective memory Mojon, or perhaps these lives don’t matter to you,because they were only white people, and therefore, worthless in your eyes.Didn’t they teach you history at your special needs school?Leftists have killed close to 150 million people during the 20th century;largely through the efforts of psycopaths,like this reincarnation of doctor Mengele. I presume they also failed to teach you this at your special neeeds school.
DR. MENGELE I PRESUME:This totalitarian degenerate is one reason,the founding fathers wrote the second amendment.
De culo–> Nope, I don’t think I mentioned those others. You little pansies, always pointing the finger at somebody else, afraid to take the full responsibility for the actions you support. If what you did was right, then talk about the dead. Ten thousand dead by US military hands in Iraq in just the first 3 months. You don’t have to boast about it, but I’d be more inclined to believe you when you say that the war was a good idea when you’re able to talk about it in real terms.
PS
And don’t forget the other great “right wing nut” lies:
the lagers of stalin
the killing fields of Cambodia
the boat people fleeing from the “liberated” Vietnam
all lies, damned lies of the reactionaries.
If you’re not including the Ukrainian famine in with the “lagers”, I’d add that to the list of “lies”.
Liberals are heavily invested in the prospect that their own knowledge can be held as superior. Liberals are also heavily invested in the prospect that their own moral code can be held as superior. Taken together, this explains absolutely every position the liberal espouses. Especially so on health care.
A dose of humility is an important part of any genuine person’s approach to policy. Since most liberals are dishonest narcissists, it’s kind of hard to take their approach to policy seriously and just about any issue. Except perhaps for funding for the arts. That’s something I think they could be entrusted with.
On health care, the left has presently occupied itself disguising their agenda as a means to control health care costs. If this were really true, they’d be focusing on physician salaries as quickly as they recently focused on corporate salaries. But you’ll notice that this is not part of the discussion. Because the goal is not really to control costs; rather, it is to ensure equity in care for all persons regardless of whether they contribute productive labor to society. On the surface, the intended consequence is to increase the quality of care for those who don’t have it. But the underlying directive, the one that informs all their political philosophies, is to reduce the quality of care for those who already have it. Their perverted egalitarian sensibilities simply demand it. In fact, if forced to choose between an either-or policy that either helps the have-nots, or merely penalizes the haves, they will choose the latter every day of the week. Health care, cap-and-trade, so called “progressive” tax policies — all of these are designed to possibly help the sick, to possibly help the environment, to possibly help the poor, but to definitely make the well-off suffer.
So, do we really expect liberals to endorse anything other than government solutions that penalize those whose very productivity makes our entire standard of living possible? You really think Nancy Pelosi, Al Franken, BHO, you really think they understand that dollars are simply currency, and that human productivity is what actually pays for everything. I think not. You can’t expect children to make adult decisions.
#27 Moho: “Same with all of our wars. People only die in other people’s wars, not ours.”
That’s wrong, Moho. We are pretty good at killing the Norths who invade to conquer and subject the Souths. I offer the Koreas, Iraq/Kuwait, Germany/France, the Vietnams. Only you and the late Walter Cronkite seem to think/to have thought otherwise.
#27 Moho: “Same with all of our wars. People only die in other people’s wars, not ours.”
That’s wrong, Moho. We are pretty good at killing the Norths who invade to conquer and subject the Souths. I offer the Koreas, Iraq/Kuwait, Germany/France, the Vietnams. Only you and the late Walter Cronkite seem to think/to have thought otherwise.
Barry and the Boys are simply too intelligent for us old folks to understand their great compassion. I am 74, got 42 radiation treatments
for prostate cancer. I am doing well and expect to live into my 80s.
I still retain an interest in life. I read widely, play golf, work at the ranch.
I make Barry and the Boys, including Zeek the Bleak and Ram the Rear End and Alexrod and any other Chicago hood on the payroll.
Let’s give you the same benefits you want go give us. After all, you hoods want to be fair. Let’s just play strip poker and we will use you as the chips.
Longdrycreek Ranch
Texas Panhandle
Sometimes, in reading the trolls idiocies, I wonder if they even know what we are talking about.
Like the “killing fields”.
BUT then I recall that Chomsky called the regime of the khmer rouge “the greatest societal experiment” ever carried out.
And I realize that piles of skulls covering a whole country (a whole generation annihilated by design) mean “progress” in leftist language.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
No wonder these sleazoids conveniently exempt themselves from this slimey crap they dream up.
Rationing for thee
But not for me.
New parts for smoker Barry
But for YOU it might get scary.
What does that fat, bloated, drunkard Ted Kennedy got to say for himself?
Must be nice to live in an ivory tower far removed from the unwashed masses.
0bamacare = Powergrab di$guised as an innocuous placebo.
Obama and the Emanuel brothers should take heed to the Lord’s warning to them and those like them, “Gods though you may be, offspring of the Most High all of you, you shall perish like mortals.”
The Washington Post jumped in today to defend Dr.Emanuel for what many many consider, radical views towards measuring out health care based on the quality/value of indvidual lives. Get this: such criticism distors “Dr. Emanuel’s thoughtful and nuanced positions.” Whenever you hear the word “nuanced” it means regardless of the words you hear or read, there is different, more meaningful interpretation….nuance….sort of like Newspeak from Orwell’s book “1984.” Words, just words. Nuance,just nuance.
“24. Moho:
Anyone who continues to recycle this lie, doesn’t deserve even a smidge of politeness. Such a person needs to be called out directly as one of two things–either an unprincipled, lying manipulator, or a total gullible idiot. I’ve read the article that this disgusting rumor is based on. Its an article about the ethical implications of rationing that occurs under our current system–for drugs during pandmeics, triage during disasters and organ replacement.
Anyone who continues to believe this lie at this point is either a gullible fool or a willing accomplice in slander.”
Aug 22, 2009 – 8:25 am
If the article in question is the one referenced here:
“Perhaps Zeke’s most infamous recommendation is in an essay (pages 12-14 at link) in the November-December 1996 Hastings Report. In it, while quite frequently using variations of the word “communitarian,” he wrote that “services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.” Charming.”
then it is moho who is lying. Read it for yourself. Indeed, Emmanuel’s communitarian theory is even more disturbing than the article here indicates–its argument includes the issue of decisions about guaranteed health care in a broader argument about the state’s right to ensure that it will continue to produce the right kinds of citizens into the future, with the right kind of citizens being those who support the kinds of “deliberative” and “communitarian” policies that produced those citizens. That is, once comunitarianism gets into power, it has the right and obligation to reproduce itself in power indefinitely. Implicit here would be the right to get rid of citizens who are insufficiently “deliberative” and “communitarian” and refuse to be properly “educated.”
Moho is playing the usual leftist troll game of bait and switch. “No, let’s not talk about what Emanuel said, let’s talk about Vietnam!”
All of you who have rebutted him have made excellent points. But remember, he’s trying to change the subject.
I’m not sure it’s entirely deliberate either. In Moho’s case, he seems to have attention (and logic) deficent disorder. Challenge him and he simply pukes out “Right wingers,blah, blah, blah, Fox, blah, blah, blah, Vietnam, blah, blah, blah.”
Hard to keep your mind on the topic at hand when your brain is full of wee wee.
Well, Donna V., we’ve heard of S*(%-for-brains before, but never wee-wee of the brain…
Reminds me of advice I’d give to employees who were playing-around… never let the little head do the thinking!
DONA ADAM DELIA RE:my favorite trollp/punching bag:#33 MOJON:Rabid are we?Scored a direct hit on you didn’t I? A few points: 1.Your “pun” on my name doesn’t work well;tell your special ed. teacher cum teleprompter, to get himself a Spanish dictionary;2.I oppose both the war in afghanistan, and Iraq mess,just think:they are both examples of govt. incompetence,the same govt. that screwed up Iraq,wants to run the marxoid skinny ninny’s Mengele health “care”,that will:3.kill far more than 10,000 people in their first year,using death panels presided over by zeke(the ghoul)Emmanuel.But not to worry Mohon, most of the victims will be elderly white folks, not worth your trouble. Finally,4.You forgot to call me a racist;Are you having withdrawal symptoms?time to contact your drug dealer for another hit of crack!
Adam:
An entire movement in which the leaders lead by taking the comments of their enemies out of context, while the followers follow by acceding to these interpretations, while MOST importantly not verifying the comments. Case in point. Emanuel writes:
This refined view [communitarianism] distinguishes issues within the political sphere into four types 1) issues related to constitutional rights and liberties 2) issues realted to opportunities, including health care and education 3) issues related to the distribution of wealth such as tax policies and 4)other political matters that may not be matters of justice but are matters of the common good, such as environmental politics and defense policies. While there still may be a disagreement about the need for a neutral justification for rights and liberties, there is consensus between communitarian and liberals that policies regarding opportunities, wealth and matters of the comon good can only be justified by appeal to a particular conception of the good.
There are matters of rights and then there are matters of the public good. Though health care may not be a right, it is certainly something that can be thought of as “the common good”. In that context, Emanuel says:
“On this view, the reason the United States has failed to enact universal health coverage is not primarily political or economic; the real reason is ethical–it is a failure to provide philosophically defensible and practical mechanism to distinguish basic from discretionary health services
…
“Substantively, [such a conception] suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity–those that ensure healthy future generations, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations are to be socially guaranteed as basic…
Its quite clear to a person that can read, that Emanuel is advocating a system that guarantees certain medical services, not only in terms of opportunity, but in practical delivery. That is, its all well and good that in theory you can have diabetic continuing care, but the reality is that cost prevents many from achieving that as reality. In that sense, other services not seen as necessary would still be available but not from the government at no cost.
Only an idiot or a liar could come up with the interpretation the writer does here. And only an idiot would take it at face value without bothering to look at the actual article by Emanuel. Which are you?
Blumer, you little lying coward, you can answer this in Adam’s stead since it appears he doesn’t have the stones to confront the truth.
It is clear to a literate person that Emmanuel believes, as a communitarian, that there is a substantive social good (“good” with a capital “G”); that the distinction between basic and discretionary care should be made based on knowledge of that good; that that good is “ensuring full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations”; that, in terms of health care, knowledge of that good will have to be attributed to “experts” who can be expected to have such knowledge who will therefore make the decision; and that, looking beyond health care towards education, media and other possible government interventions, there is a philosophical basis here for privileging those citizens who “fully and actively participate” in ways defined and approved by many other panels of “experts” that would have to arise to interpret the substantive “social Good,” with highly authoritarian (at least consequences).
I note that moho doesn’t take on the remark about dementia not being covered, under these criteria; otherwise, what is incompetent or falsifying in my reading?
His point is clear as a bell, you liar/idiot.
A) Certain medical services should be considered the basic provisions of an ethical society
B) Determining those services is an ongoing ethical concern that has not yet been resolved.
C) Nothing in the writing claims that the services deemed discretionary cannot be offered by the private sector.
The misunderstanding is one that you nurture at the cost of appearing a complete gullible idiot who simply can’t let go of a treasured belief. There is nothing in Emanuel’s writings that suggest he wants to ration services; only a liar would suggest that, and only an idiot would accept it without investigating for himself/herself.
Now if you want to argue that having to pay for a service is denial of service, then may I direct you to the International Socialist Organization website?
Good summary, Mr. Blumer. This Ez. Emanuel is a steaming pile of bad business.
And citing Dr. McCaughey is great. I have been blogging up this Ez. Emanuel guy for the past week, since hearing her discuss the Lancet article over the radio.
Here is a link that brings one all the way back to the Nuremberg Code, which was a response to euthanasia and other war crimes from the twisted German medical establishment.
Hitler’s order to to Brandt for euthanasia:
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/NurTranscript/TranscriptPages/97_58.html
Bonus link to homepage of the Harvard Law School Library’s Nuremberg Trials Project:
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview
It’s pretty simple. Whenever someone makes a decision for me I’m skeptical. When I’m told it’s for the greater good, I’m concerned. When I’m told I don’t understand, I’m angry.
There’s alot of assertions being made. That’s all they are at this point. Look at all the blanks that aren’t filled in yet.
Moho would have me trust the government (I believe) to be the arbiter of things that concern my well being. Juxtaposed to the argument that our government does bad things (or former government).
Doesn’t make much sense to me. What’s to stop this or a future administration from using this legislation to their own ends?
The emergency powers act is a terrible thing to waste.
Rationed health care, with the rationing decided by political appointees; hence if you have contacts within the system, of course you will obtain whatever is necessary to prolong life. If you are without political influence you will be told to stand in line and wait. Of course, optional procedures such as abortion will be covered in major part and hence a life aborted, killed! But he doesn’t count. He’s not a person.
Moho would have me trust the government (I believe) to be the arbiter of things that concern my well being. Juxtaposed to the argument that our government does bad things (or former government).
Doesn’t make much sense to me.
You said a mouthful, friend. It sure doesn’t. I’ve made it as clear as human language is able, that in Emanuel’s view, the government should provide a minimum of services. Okay. That means that everybody would get certain services from the government–services which are deemed indispensable for the well being of society–free of charge from the government.
Other services wouldn’t be free of charge. There would be nothing stopping you from using your insurance to get those .
Do you understand? In Emaneul’s construction, the only thing that would change is that everyone would have access to a baseline of services. And even so, you could always use private insurance for every single one of those services instead.
And by the way, none of this is actually in the bill, nor is there any chance in hell that it will ever happen in the United States. Imbeciles. That goes without saying, but you people are so mind-meltingly stupid that I really wonder how you managed to get all your fingers to move at the same time to write these posts.
16. Dave II:
“Hold the phones!!! You actually AGREE with a point made here in an article on PJM????”
What did you expect? I agree with common sense.
“That you seem to acknowledge there’s a problem with the “concept”, yet place your faith in the wackos and socialists in Congress and the White House to come up with “well written legislation that has no ambiguities and serves the patients” is either foolishness or naive in the extreme…”
The point is: who else is going to write the legislation? We know that lots of our legislators don’t use their brains, but maybe this time they are aware of this and reevaluate their thinking. Not realistic, but we can always hope. Their families, friends and neighbors will use the health care plan after all.
Though health care may not be a right, it is certainly something that can be thought of as “the common good”.
“Certainly”? Perhaps in cases of infectious disease, but beyond that, I don’t think you can make a case for this that comes anywhere near certainty.
They are ghouls.
De culo.
I’m still laughing at your post. Direct hit? With what? My put down worked fine, and we both know it, although comemierda would have been closer. De culo, significa algo que sale del culo o algo en relacion al culo, en este sentido, eres tu. Le hice un google, y el termino sale en diez paginas. Con ejemplos tales:
Cara de Culo
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cara%20de%20culo
Flor de Culo
http://www.filestube.com/d923f140f5c3674703e9,g/Flor-de-culo.html
[I think that one nails you, pretty good]
Oyo de Culo
http://egcreekin.blogspot.com/2009/02/oyo-de-culo.html
Y etcetera, you’re free to insert whatever qualifier you’d like in front “de culo” I didn’t mean to imply that you couldn’t…
One thing I would ask, is, if you didn’t support the Iraq and Afghanistan war, with all the people that it killed, then how could you rub elbows with these idiots. These are the very same people whose credulity got us into that war, and now the very same ignoramuses–which you count yourself part of–want to opine on more issues. And you’re with them? Please, dude.
Either Emmanuel provides a philosophical basis for the Administration, or he doesn’t–presumably, his involvement on panels set up by Obama suggests that he does. So, we need to look at what a “communitarian” believes, what the implications of that phislophical perspective for governance are. Moho is, I suppose uninterested or unqualified for that, so he just spews administration talking points. what he doesn’t understand is that few of us believe one of the most crucial of those talking points–that private insurance will survive Obamacare
Adam you’re completely full of crap. First of all, identify the talking points. I’d never even seen that document before today. My analysis was based on reading it! That may seem like an incredible feat to you, and like some European caveman transported to the present, you can only call revere it as magic, or a “talking point”. No one is capable of reading the holy texts! Only our masters at Pajamas may interpret the scrolls!
I hope you work at McDonald’s where you can’t hurt anybody.
If these panels can be called ” death panels”, can those who direct them be termed ” angels of death”?
“Other services wouldn’t be free of charge. There would be nothing stopping you from using your insurance to get those ”
OK, where do you see this claim in the essay? Emmanuel never gets anywhere this close to outlining the specifics of any health care system. This is your defense of Obamacare, and the reiteration of your claim that private insurance would be untouched.
Same here:
“Do you understand? In Emaneul’s construction, the only thing that would change is that everyone would have access to a baseline of services. And even so, you could always use private insurance for every single one of those services instead. ”
Emmanuel doesn’t distinguish between private and public insurance, he distinguishes between guaranteed and discretionary. And the distinction between guaranteed and discretionary can be within a public system: i.e., everyone is guaranteed coverage for, say, pregnancy, but certain kinds of cancers are left to the discretion of the government bureaucrat.
And, of course, this:
“And by the way, none of this is actually in the bill, nor is there any chance in hell that it will ever happen in the United States. Imbeciles. That goes without saying, but you people are so mind-meltingly stupid that I really wonder how you managed to get all your fingers to move at the same time to write these posts.”
I do thank you for forcing me to go back to the text again–I hadn’t noticed, until I looked for it, the complete absence of any reference to private insurance. If anything, he is criticizing a system where “discretionary” services are determined by “wealth,” rather than by some kind of “public rationality.” That itself says more than all your flailing what this is really about.
The bigger question, still is what kinds of government intervention and control get justified by the use of the pleasant sounding “communitarian.”
54: Moho ” You said a mouthful, friend. It sure doesn’t. I’ve made it as clear as human language is able, that in Emanuel’s view, the government should provide a minimum of services. Okay. That means that everybody would get certain services from the government–services which are deemed indispensable for the well being of society–free of charge from the government.
Other services wouldn’t be free of charge.”
Not sure if that’s truly his view or not. I did read one of his papers. And exactly what is the well being of society?
I’m always a little suspicious when people make claims that they know what someone else believes by reading a paper, article or whatever. When I hear someone blatantly lie, that’s another story.
My point, in spite of your condescension, is that once you open the door, anything can happen. It’s tough (if not impossible) to regulate the regulator.
I have no doubt that Kucinich’s goal of Medicare for all is the real demo strategy. The devils in the details, and the language in HR3200 is pretty loose and open to interpretation.
Methinks you’re a bureaucrat on the federal payroll.
Have you ever been on an Indian Reservation BTW?
Or personally know any Native Americans?
Someone once said the voters should get what they vote for. . . . . good and hard. And (we) they are with Obama and his arm-twisting, knee-breaking, Chicago minions. I hope and pray the U.S. can survive the next 3+ years until he gets voted out, hopefully just like Carter. I cringe every time I see an image of the little weasel Rahm Emanuel, and I almost about lose my lunch when I see his brother. I try not to think about the fact that we have socialists running the country. We the people must rise up, voice our opinions, vote the socialists out of office, and return to smaller government, lower taxes and greater freedom. With every law, every regulation, every agency rule that is passed or promulgated, and every tax is heaped upon us, our freedom is slowly being chipped away, just like the frog in a pot of water; he doesn’t notice the water is too hot until it’s too late. Liberals are notorious for incremental changes – with each one, they’ve made progress, and they just keep on plugging away with the next, and on and on and on. Before you know it, they’ve taken over and we won’t be able to get it back.
Just for reference, see
Obamacare-Point and Counterpoint By Frank S. Rosenbloom, M.D.
A good refutation of Obama-care.
This is actually extremely important. A great deal of progress is made by following up on the 1 in 5 (or however many) times when a treatment does work.
Dr. Mengele would be extremely proud…
And I’ll bet that they would not remotely understand the natural reaction of 99% of the parents in the population: if there is only a limited supply of a vaccination, the kids get it not me. I may still be “productive”, but I’m not going to have any more children. I want my children to live to carry on.
bibio44 (17):
Please prove anything printed here wrong. It corresponds with everything I’ve read elsewhere.
Emanuel and the rest of the tribe…
Only you, born Americans are surprised at the bizarre turn of events that shaping our nations.
For us, those people who was born in Eastern Europe, everything appears to be the redux of the 1917. Bolshevik revolution…no surprise here.
With Alinsky, Axelrod, Emanuel I.&II. Soros, Schumer, Boxer, Sanders, Chomsky etc. the ethnic concentration at such a high level begets the Communist Revolution as it happened in Europe.
Good morning America, the Children of Uncle Karl have hatched from their long, dormant incubation and will teach you lessons that you will never forget. Unlike their European forebears the current crop evolved considerably by hiding behind The Jokerwho is untouchable like Al Capone was in the movie. No way out from their grip unless look at how Eastern Europeans got rid of them: the Poles, Hungarians, Russians, Czechs and Romanians with Ceausescu….
Not sure if that’s truly his view or not. I did read one of his papers. And exactly what is the well being of society?
I’m always a little suspicious when people make claims that they know what someone else believes by reading a paper, article or whatever. When I hear someone blatantly lie, that’s another story….Have you ever been on an
Well, if you should read the paper that the author linked to. He’s pretty clear that he’s not presuming to know or understand what the good of society is. He’s bringing up questions. I can’t believe I have to repeat this; he’s an ethicist. An ethicist’s role is to confront issues that are by their nature intractable, and to propose possible methods to finding solutions. Frankly, given the amount of deference that Emanuel gives to a wide variety of views on the subject, the angry idiocy on this page is offensive. Nothing but torch-wielding group think.
Indian Reservation BTW?
Or personally know any Native Americans?
Not sure how this is pertinent to anything, but yes. And yes. Not that you’d have any reason to believe it nor do I have any interest in proving it to you. But what difference could that possibly make? You don’t seem to understand the issue. Offering certain health services which people cannot at the moment receive for economic reasons at no charge has to be the least problematic or controversial idea I can imagine. You conservative, Republican, nutbags or whatever you call yourselves, are intent on making Americans look like complete fools.
So, if I understand it, we need socialized medicine because about 15% of Americans don’t get medical care because they don’t have health insurance . . . most likely because they don’t work hard enough, or they simply don’t want to buy it because they’re young and healthy and they’ll take the risk
O.K. After we nationalize our medical care, about 15% of us won’t get any medical care because the government will decide that we’re too young or too old.
It’s bad to not have health care when it’s your own damn fault, but it’s o.k. to be denied health care if the government says so? That’s progress?
Thank-you for allowing me to comment. This is a first for me on this website, so please bear with me. I have practiced medicine for 34 years. Notice I say practice. Like many practicing physicians, I deal with life and death daily. I have accumulated a life time of practical (pragmatic??) experience with the most subtle and yet devastating problems we as humans face. I have known academic and paper orientated “physicians” who have never practiced. Our beaurocracies are filled with them. Frankly, I have no respect for them. They are a disconnect from real doctors. It is telling that Zeke is a part of the culture of death, and that very little humanity evinces itself from his writing. It is also significant that the A.M.A. is one of his publishing venues. They are on board. The vast majority of American physicians have long ago abandoned this organization–which not-coincidently is Chicago based! I would be willing to bet that finally, in my opinion, Zeke is ethically challenged and that he is dirty as hell.
i have one question to the author of the article: what are *his* ideas “about how vaccines should be administered in a scarcity situation”?
not that i expect an answer…
my point is, while some dr. emmanuel ideas are repulsive, there has to be *some* other answer that isn’t. what is it, in author’s opinion? it’s much easier to jump at any rationing idea, than distinguish between acceptable ones and not. the author failed miserably, leaving behind a shallow article, devoid of substance.
Moho:
I understand your point but you are very presumptious and condescending. I’m not so sure your interptretation is the correct one…that makes me a nutbag. You have to take the totality of the man’s comments and not what he said in that one paper which is a minute data point.
My comment about Native americans regards the
quality of service and honor the government has afforded them for the many treathy based entitlements they receive.
Sorry if gas and cigarettes was all you cared about.
Methinks you are as uncivil as you claim others to be/
Still waiting for Moho to respond to post 62. Something about stones or something. It’s kind of hard to take her too seriously if she can dish it out but can’t take it. And since PJM has seen fit to allow her posts when they are in large part name-calling, they will no doubt not censor the following: Moho is not well, mentally. Examine her diction and you’ll see for yourself. I hope that she will get the help she needs.
Emmanuel doesn’t distinguish between private and public insurance, he distinguishes between guaranteed and discretionary. And the distinction between guaranteed and discretionary can be within a public system: i.e., everyone is guaranteed coverage for, say, pregnancy, but certain kinds of cancers are left to the discretion of the government bureaucrat.
Lenny. In fact, I responded to this. I’ve said it again and again. Perhaps its my peculiar mental problem that allows me to perceive writing and the words with actual intent, rather than my own prejudice. If so, its a mental illness I’ll carry the burden of because of its utility. The article is about providing certain services as basic, and others as not, it does not advocate that the government run health care. It advocates that the government provide basic services. In doing so, it would have to decide which services were basic and which were not. I don’t expect you to be able to understand this.
LENNY B,BEAR RE:#58MOJON A basic lesson in Math :0 multiplied by any number, is still 0,so your constant de culo puns still don’t work, no matter how many variatons you generate;Christ, do I have to help you insult me?Icould hit you with a lengthier list of schools for the mentally challenged than your list of dictionary citations,but it’s pointless,your ego prevents you from seeing your obvious intellectual inadequacies.This is another harmful consequence of affirmative action, the recipient becomes convinced that he really is smart,where as he only has been proclaimed smart by his libtard handlers.I am PROUD to hang around with PJM folks;they may be wrong on Iraq/Iran, but they are NOT Stalinists unlike your libtard friends,,who want to reenact the catastrophes of Marxism(200,000,000)deaths,ravaged economies, war,racism and demoralization in the US. This is the US NOT the USSR! In the right 100%agreement is not demanded for membership,unlike the Demtard left which hates intellectualdiversity.Come mierda? wow,I didn’t know you were consorting with the MS13 gang,but libs have an absolute affinity for criminals, being thugs themselves.What an irony!Mierda is what you have been eagerly consuming in order to receive affirmative action charity,and gone to your brain, ,and left you a white liberal’s sock puppet.BTW :it’s not OYO it’s HOYO, like the hole in your brain.OYO means”eye”,dimwit!
Moho, you obviously missed the point on 62. Of course the article is not advocating government run health care. But you are, in every post. 62 pointed this out and you completely ignored it, because you cannot separate the arguments on this thread with your advocacy of public health care: “Offering certain health services which people cannot at the moment receive for economic reasons at no charge has to be the least problematic or controversial idea I can imagine.”
The article and this thread are not about whether you support public health care. You obviously do. You also obviously think anyone who disagrees with you is either, stupid, deceiptful, or both. I submit that you are not qualified to make judgments on the intellect of others. I also submit that your reliance on personal attacks is highly suggestive of some kind of neurosis. I think a lot of folks on here probably agree with that. Every time you attempt to reach a conclusion, and usually just before, your posts are rambling and disjointed. You never connect the dots.
What the article and thread are about is whether “Dr. Zeke” is not a dispassionate analyst of our health care system as he represents himself to be, but rather, a political zealot whose prior work on health care policy reveals him to actually be more concerned with creating an alternate society that is socialist at heart. The deeper implication of the article, which presumably you also missed, is what that conclusion, if correct, signifies about the present administration’s motivations and more importantly their honest with the American public about their motivations. I personally think having a guy like Zeke as a high ranking advisor is quite in line with everything BHO does — he deceives the American public into thinking he’s a moderate trying to fix problems, when in fact he is a zealous advocate for certain constituencies (first) and a more socialist society (second). And to top it off, he has shamelessly used his race to his advantage, a first in American politics. 97% of the black vote. Think about that for a second.
Flor de Culo
;Christ, do I have to help you insult me?
You’ve been doing that for weeks.
I personally think having a guy like Zeke as a high ranking advisor is quite in line with everything BHO does — he deceives the American public into thinking he’s a moderate trying to fix problems, when in fact he is a zealous advocate for certain constituencies (first) and a more socialist society (second). And to top it off, he has shamelessly used his race to his advantage, a first in American politics. 97% of the black vote. Think about that for a second.
Its going to take more than a second, because I simply can’t figure out what you think was happening for the first 100 years of this society when black people had no right to vote. That was somehow a race-free politic I assume. And how the hell did you get to the issue of race from health care? Did you think I wouldn’t understand your comment about “increasing” disjointedness, and so you gave me an example? In any case, Emanuel’s opinions are dishonestly portrayed here. I’ve shown you how and why, its up to you to keep playing the fool or actually read and understand the original sources and what Emanuel really is talking about.
#81 Moho, you have shown nothing but your own ignorance and penchant for deception, and commenters, including adam at #62 and others, have done an excellent job of dismembering your non-arguments.
Betsy McCaughey has this guy pegged.
And what about the fact that Emanuel has, at a minimum, strong “communitarian” sympathies — in which systems the government not only runs everything, it virtually IS everything) don’t you understand?
Re: Mojo’s ratiocinating & contorting:
It doesn’t make any sense to argue with Mojo over Blumer arguments’ validity. Mojo is not here to explain or clarify views in a constructive mannner – neither he, or his liberal cohorts couldn’t care less about this public health reform issue.
This legislation is gone, dead, adios, kaput, finito, konec, your pick here – arguing about its worthiness has the urgency of a debate about Orbison’s shades shape.
The purpose of Mojo’s (and other “progressive” trolls’)being here is strictly an attempt to deflect people’s attention from the train wreck that’s now in full display (Obama’s presidential career) for this nation’s edification – love this large scale diorama.
So keep enlarging upon health reform’s grandeur, Mojo – this sure won’t disrupt my, and so many others’ looking at the latest Rassmunssen numbers -
Dr. Mangle-us
A basis tenet of civilized, liberal (in the traditional sense of the word, not in the current, perversion of the term adopted by the liberal elitist fascisti) democratic government is that priority of compassion is reserved for the very young, the very old, and the defenseless.
What Zeke expounds is the absolute antithesis of founding principles of this nation and this civilization. He proposes, for the good of the state, that health resources be denied to the groups most in need, while reserving them for those who statistically don’t require them. He expounds the need for an artificial shortage of the stuff of life, rather like Stalin in the Ukraine in 1931, which he will use as a mechanism for euthanasia directed at the young and the very old. He would create a famine in heath care. By association with this apparatchik, that tells me that, in his heart of hearts, Obama would also create such a famine.
All famine is political.
The mechanism is simple. Just look at the 504 funded medical procedures currently defined in Oregon under their plan, where we find that abortion is ranked or given a higher priority than an emergency appendectomy. Once again, the loons in Oregon show us the way!
#80FLOR DE MOJON de un liberal blanco,(AKA MOHO)Mojon: So I’ve been helping you insult me for weeks?I can see why you would believe that,since, like all affirmative action “success” stories, you need help with everything you do, lest your inadequacies become obvious.You’re like Obama and his lib-massa programmed teleprompter:not much without outside help.Your anal fixation(Flor de culo &etc)begs the question;Does your special needs school provide you with a toileting aide?It needs to be added to your list of school requirements, to purge you of your libtardism.
#83 Misanthropicus: Don’t argue ith a libtard:insult him judiciously, until his weak ego explodes,and the pieces reveal what stalinist scum they really are.Make the libtard trolls pay a price in public ridicule, and they’ll infes PJM less.I’m having fun using MoHO as a punching bag!
LENNY#79 Of course MOJO is advocating government -run healthcare;the poor chap has insatiable special needs.(SEE POST80)
Let’s hear it for reincarnation!Dr. Mengele was very clever to come back as a Jew,who would suspect him!
Blumer:
You mean the same Betsy McCaughey that was just outed as a total idiot on the Daily Show. By a comedian. The one who got fired the next day:
http://washingtonindependent.com/56008/death-panel-myth-creator-betsy-mccaughey-resigns-from-medical-board
Nice work. You’re even dumber than I originally thought you were.
#90 MOJON Glad to see that you are using Daily as a sort of political oracle:The clowns leading the clowns.
George Santayana:
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it
The government plans presented are reminiscent of the ancient Spartan philosophy toward the infirm or physically deformed. This contrasted with the Athenian philosophy of life……and we can see who thrived.
ATTENTION:LENNY,BLUMER,MISANTHROPICUS:I think I discovered the MOJON’S TRUE motivation. READ ON!MOJON#90:The woman was not fired; she resigned to avoid a conflict of interest,unlike Obamanista creeps like Axlerod who stand to make millions from from OBAMARARNA health”care”.As far as the Daily show goes, he refuted NOTHING,and behaved like the hectoring,rude,libtard buffoon he is.However, when he mentioned GOLDEN ENEMAS,I knew immediately why you are such a fan of his,and of OBARAMA health”care” :You want the government to pay for your RECREATIONAL ENEMAS!Dude:I knew that when I renamed you MOJON(Spanish for turd) I was on to something.
My inquisitive mind has been wondering, and I would like an educated Jewish scribe to explain, why is it that it is mainly those of the Jewish faith who propose those activities that have been tragically foisted upon their own peoples throughout the ages. Is it a mental condition? Is it as been written for centuries, the focus on money and not an afterlife? There must be some core belief in there somewhere or else it is a suicide gene in action.
Culo Face–> She resigned the very day after her appearance on the Daily Show made her look like, well, one of you people…So, yes, in a way, you’re right. She resigned to avoid a conflict of interest with Cantle. They’re interest of being taken seriously by the medical and financial world conflicted with her compulsive need to look like a lunatic in need of an increased lithium dosage.
Culo face? What is this ? kindergarten?What next? Duri head,POO face, and similar sophistications?You need to get your enema;less adult than lithium, but more appropriate to your developmental stage.It might clear your mind and improve your rejoinders.Cantle,like the Pharmas,has been intimidated/bought off by the Obama thugs. She behaved honorably, unlike that pile of mojones Axelrod.But what can you expect from a regime that puts a tax cheat in charge of the IRS? BTW: is MOHO some kind of ghetto creole shorthand for “my mother’s a ho?” MO+HO HEY YO! my MOMS a HO! That’s why they call me the big MOHO!I think I’ll call EMINEN!
Poo Face; yes that fits you quite nicely.
One last thing poo face: what I really like about the screen name Moho is the amount of time idiots like you spend trying to figure out what it means. You want to know what it means? Nothing. Absolutely nothing but the first four letters I typed. I suppose you also wonder aloud if the Hulk would beat Superman. Such questions are more suited to your intellectual ability.
We all have value, as a human beings, over and above what service we can provide the state. When we become defined by our utility to others we all become slaves to the state.
In his papers, and if you want to read them you can, like I did, all of the quotes listed in this article are there and are not taken out of context, Dr. Emmanuel did everything but cite the Action T-4 program as good model.
MOJON:Poo face?You complain about my suppossed weak intellect,and that’s the best YOU can come up with?Like I said,take your enema ASAP,and clear your head,of the Mojones,you might actually have,for the first time in your life,an original thought!
What gets me, poo face, is that even the lamest insults seem to hit right on target with you. Generally, when someone is so vulnerable to hurt feelings, one assumes they have low self-esteem. But I knew that already, because that’s something you have in common with your cohort here at Pajamas Media. A bunch of frightened of their shadows sissies angry at the world, but unable to articulate that anger themselves, just waiting for demagogues to present the structure for their hatred. Trust me, poo face is a gift.
“Dr. Emmanuel did everything but cite the Action T-4 program as good model.”
Yeah. “liberals” have already run programs similar to Nazi “health care” programs. Their program is referred to as the Tuskegee Syphillis Experiment in which they took control over people’s health care, promised that they would help those who enlisted in the government run “health care” program…then refused to provide them with medicine that would have cured them (so they could observe the effects of untreated tertiary syphillis).
In that “experiment” (essentially the same as Nazi medical experimentation) over 100 innocent people were murdered in cold blood by our fabulous government.
Liberals/Democrats: Keep your foul government controlled health care out of my face (along with everything else you “offer”).
I want nothing to do with it, and I want nothing to do with you.
For those too lazy to click on Tom’s link, Zeke’e e-mail is
eemanuel@mail.cc.nih.gov
Please don’t abuse the address. Just tell him politely what you think.
*************** WHAT IS GOING ON HERE…????? !!!!!! ************
Please GET Real…. HOW MUCH PROFIT do you want HEALTH INSURANCE CO’s to get??
Should they get 1 of every 3 dollars off the top on health care as PROFIT…??
HOW MUCH profit do you think the ELECTRICITY Monopoly ought to make..???
Insurance companies have refused to pay and sometimes just say no to their policyholders….. What should be done about that when they take your MONEY
and when you get sick they refuse to pay to boost their profits. Here is a case where this happened youtube.com/watch?v=dT_2GjSkzHE
WHO PAYS when “THEY” the ones with no money, job or insurance arrive at the hospital..?????? HINT… Not them…..
What about jobs and the economy…. What % of the people pay their own way.??