Masters of Manipulation: How to Spot Narcissists, and How to Deal with Them
Let’s say you realize you share a common biographical fact that might be of mutual interest. Don’t waste your breath. It’s of no mutual interest because the concept of mutuality is absent from the inner life of such people. The fact that, for example, you were both raised without your fathers is meaningless. All that counts to the narcissist is that he was raised without his father. Your life story is of no conceivable interest to him.
With a description like this, you might wonder why anyone would wish to have a relationship with such a person as Orson at all. What’s the point? It’s easy to see what isn’t the point: such a person will have, and will show, no interest whatsoever in you except to use you in whatever ways will further his goals, agenda, or needs.
So what is the point? These people are often, like Teddy Roosevelt, charismatic and exciting. They express themselves vividly and are usually vibrant, vivacious, and exhilarating. They can stir frissons of passionate feelings, and be electrifying company. They’re never boring. While others who are equally bright can be tedious companions, these people are never dull.
They have the gift of being hyper-interesting and always thought-provoking. They can hold an audience captive with their stimulating presence. Others hang on their every word. They’re magnetic, and often sexually attractive by virtue of the field of energy their intense focus as performers invariably generates. They aren’t necessarily beautiful or handsome. But they’re high-energy, which translates as sexually-charged.
Others are drawn to them like the moth to the flame, yet to be with them is to be an audience member, a servant, a driver, an assistant, a helper but never an equal. In their view, they have no equals. Why should you be any different?
You’ll rarely, if ever, be asked how you are, even when you’ve just undergone major surgery the day before, because the narcissist will never know you did. He’ll never ask and you won’t bother to tell. Why would you? It would be meaningless to him, utterly meaningless.
You’re always at the narcissist’s beck and call, but when you need help, don’t turn to one of them. If you know a narcissist, be sure you also have a real friend in your life. When you need a narcissist, he or she is never available.
HOW TO IDENTIFY THE NARCISSIST BEFORE THE CHARM OFFENSIVE BEGINS
How will you recognize a narcissist before the manipulation and charm offensive begins? Often you won’t. Narcissists are more easily recognized in the rear-view mirror than glimpsed beforehand through the windshield.
You’ll feel their after-effects once you’re alone. You’ll feel you’ve been taken advantage of, that you’ve been used, that what you intended as a gift was, in fact, ingeniously extracted from you to meet the narcissist’s needs. For a while, you’ll feel like sh*t, and wonder how on Earth you could have allowed yourself to have been so blinded, so blindsided, and so taken advantage of. Why did you ever believe it was an honor, a privilege, and a pleasure to serve the narcissist’s needs?
One major way you’ll know you’ve been with a narcissist is that there’ll be no golden afterglow. Instead, you’ll feel depression that will feel like anger turned inward. And you will be angry with yourself. Furious. And glum. You’ll realize that you’ve been under a narcissist’s control and you’ll promise yourself it will never happen again, that you’ll be much more alert the next time.
And maybe you will. But just as likely, the next narcissist will appear out of the blue with a completely different approach and you’ll be had all over again.
All you can do is to extricate yourself as soon as you can the next time. As long as you’re alive, there’ll always be a next time, but you’ll begin to catch on sooner the longer you live.
THE LIKELY DENOUEMENT WITH A NARCISSIST
The day will dawn, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but one day and for the rest of your life, when the scales will fall from your adoring eyes and you’ll see Orson for what he is. Entertainment. A curiosity of human nature. Nothing more and nothing less. Certainly not a mensch — a decent, reliable, or a caring human being.
You’ll get to the point with men and women like Orson at which their enormous charm, wit, vivacity, and even their dazzling intelligence and rapturous sexual appeal will wear thin. The emotional one–way street becomes a dead-end. It exacts too high a toll. You’ll tire of expecting all your other friends to gather around your table only to act as extras in a movie not of your making, nor of your choosing.
The chances are high that your relationship with Orson will be time-limited. What’s amusing and worth putting up with now will become less so as time goes by.
If you’re simply an acquaintance of a narcissist, don’t get any closer. If you’re already close, try to keep your distance. Ultimately, they self-destruct. Their lives rarely end well, surrounded by others who love them. We all die alone, but narcissists die more alone, invariably literally alone.
There needn’t be a major blow-up to end the relationship. Let’s face it, it isn’t a relationship. Orson and his ilk wouldn’t notice, anyway. As the luminous psychoanalyst Nancy McWilliams has observed, two of the hallmarks of narcissists are their inability to express authentic remorse and their inability to express genuine gratitude. Both situations make them feel one-down when their personalities demand that they always feel one-up.
And so it will be with you and Orson: you’ll tolerate his selfishness and lack of empathy for you and your friends until those serious deficits outweigh the cornucopia of pleasures of his company. When they do, you’ll withdraw and he’ll barely notice. At first, you may miss his wit and the raw excitement of being near him, but as you cultivate more reciprocal relationships, you’ll be far less exasperated and much happier. That’s a promise — and a guarantee.
– Belladonna Rogers
Do you have questions? Belladonna Rogers has answers. Send your questions or comments about politics, personal or cultural matters, or anything else that’s on your mind, and Belladonna will answer as many as possible. The names, geographic locations and email addresses of all advice-seekers are confidential and will remain undisclosed to protect the identity of the questioner. Send your questions or comments to: advice@pajamasmedia.com
Beautifully written. If you are using the narcissist as one man act for your party, that is fine, just remember that the show is never over for the other guests and plan accordingly. As the sibling of a narcissist, I will point out that there is another type of narcissist (maybe not as acute on the personality disorder scale) that will appear to be giving. They will show up at your house with gifts: a special and unique food; the best available travel book for your upcoming trip) or some other grand entrance that assures that they are to be congratulated. Just remember, these are not gifts, these are “props”. The book on travel is nothing more than an opportunity to show they are an expert on the subject and to talk about their own trip. The special dish will have a story for them to tell. “Isn’t it grand, and by extension, aren’t I grand?”
Often they will plan fun group events, and thus both hold the keys to control of the group, but also assure that they are always included and in the center of the mix.
Yes, they can make for interesting party guests and can provide some great memories. But the best advice I can give is: quickly, quietly ….run away!
This.
Life is short, stop paying attention to Orson and he’ll find another adoring crowd. There is no reforming him, improving his “faulty radar”, or curbing his selfishness. These types are nearly impossible to tune out so when around him, make sure you have a phone or pager and practice saying firmly, “I simply must go,something has come up.”
If you are having trouble getting Orson to move along, buy him a bullhorn and drive him to one of the “occupier” groups and turn him loose. No reason to steer real political talent to the opposition.
“I’ve discovered I can only invite friends content to listen and never talk when he’s here because other would-be conversationalists get stymied, and sometimes irritated, by his insistence on monopolizing the conversation. He’s an expert at not letting others speak at all. In fact, he claims expertise where he has none and where others at the table have far more.”
Sounds like a liberal or a union leader.
Excellent article, if a little brutal. Yes, Orson is annoying. Yes, she should let Orson go another crowd.
I would add a thought or two to this excellent article. Narcissism is different from selfishness. I have met people who are selfish, but who are not narcissistic. Selfishness comes from a solid emotional core; these people know who they are and who you are. They see things as they are.
Narcissistics have a twisted view of reality: Narcissists pine after their reflection, just as in the myth. It is a mental disease; the narcissist’s perspective is warped. They do not know who they are, and consequently, look at the image, how they imagine others seem them.
If narcissists can develop an understanding of their true self, they can change. There is no need for the image when they have the reality.
In any case, good advice.
interesting insight
In the Groucho Marx fashion; This is a club I would like to join.
Obama.Obama.Obama. A pathological narcissist.
GMTA! I was just about to say: “Don’t vote for a narcissist!”
There are a lot of narcissists in politics, for obvious reasons.
I believe Romney, Bachman, Gingrich and Perry are closet narcissists. Herman Cain is not.
No, I’ll disagree; the only political narcissist we have at the moment, in a major role, is Obama.
Egoism isn’t narcissism, and we might consider that Gingrich has a mild dose of that. I’d say that Romney is normal, Bachmann is a hysteric, Perry is normal.
Pathological narcissism is a very serious psychological disorder and Obama is a clinical example. He’s unable to relate directly to anyone or anything because he can’t handle being equal to anyone else; his aberration requires that he feels he controls others. His only focus is on this control – and he’s a pathological liar, an emotional manipulator and abusive and malicious to retain this feeling of Being In Control.
I’ve been saying for months that Romney is Obama with (a bit) less melanin. In both cases their basic principle is ‘Me’. For the record, I don’t get this impression from the other candidates – self-promoting, maybe. Opportunistic, sure. But narcissists? Only Obama and Romney. For the record, I do think Obama is the more extreme case of the two. Romney does a bit better imitation of being a (close to) human being.
Agree. How about adding another qualifying descriptor to your tag line like: “Malignant” Pathological Narcissist.
Well, yes, but….
children who grow up under this do grow up. They have the opportunity to grow into much better human beings, much finer humans, after they work to grow up. I would put Alice Walker’s daughter’s essays, and Erica Jong’s daughter’s essay, as a statement of the slow, painful growth to a good adulthood.
I’t a bit early in the game, but the book 13th gen covers what happens to the generation raised by habitual narcissists might possibly look like. I thought it was a strange book when it came out, but it seems to be telling true, as time goes on.
Judith Wallerstein writes “The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce”- and face it, divorce is a habit of narcissists. This is a portrait of the slow, painful growth of innocent victim children into decent, kind human beings.
And, quite bluntly, the “character counts” routines that schools have installed are designed to explicitly teach to children what some of their parents are incapable of imparting, b/c they are morally damaged. So, even at the school level, mitigation is going on.
I’d say there is some pastoral training on how to deal with narcissists in the congregation. There are books on group dynamics, as well as the comic articles about people who aren’t in the choir insisting on long solos in church. I’m not sure how congenitally nice people deal with boundariless narcissists, though. I’m not sure how they even comprehend them.
It is absolutely possible to grow up, and grow past a narcissistic parent. This is where student loans and social security payments are absolutely a blessing- you can leave and go far away to a college they don’t approve of, and then they have enough money to not need to move in with you later. It’s expensive, of course, but we, in America, don’t really have long, soap opera novels about poisonous, controlling parents living with us, in quite the way the rest of the world does, or that we did, prior to the 1950′s. I’d add, after-school activities, extra- curricular work, possibly even summer camp, part-time jobs, all while in high school.
As for treating a narcissist like a flu that will come around- have a rich enough life, and a rich enough inner life, that you are immune. they sound like cheap glitter falling, if you’re in a good way already. they sound immature, and peculiar, if you are healthy. If you are trying to socially strive, and this narcissist is a key piece of your advance- just accept you’re vulnerable, and maybe you might want to rethink your strategy of social ladder-climbing.
Bravo, Ari!!! Well put!
One characteristic of a narcissist you left out: His enemy must be your enemy as well. When the narcissist has a falling out or disagreement with someone, the narcissist will do everything he can to persuade you to take his side and turn you against the offending party.
Absolutely correct! After reading this article I can confirm for myself that my father has always been a narcissist. Furthermore, he always expects for me to hate with an intense passion the people he hates. There are some instances where I don’t think my dad is an idiot concerning his “enemies” but for the most part I just respond with silence. It makes him think that I’m “on his side” without ever stating such intents.
Bingo! Spot on.
What happens when one narcissist interacts with another? Do they repel each other?
depends. are they both superior versions? they’ll marry.
is one in a down position? possible violent relationship.
does somebody grow a spine? divorce. or, outraged self-centeredness? divorce. With the really spine-tingling awful details that make true crime books the most horrifying books at the library.
children? possibly raised by others. nannies. If not, a wide streak of “losing” in family court. not always- but enough.
And, children had best conform to the look the parent wants. One girl had her clothes burned to cinders b/c the mom thought they were tacky. They were her only new clothes in that year, bought by someone else pitying her ragged, boyish clothes- a velvet dress with sparkles, just like every little girl likes. Sparkles and velvet were for…she was considered tasteful in private school second-hand closet clothes. Her mother made a backyard barbecue of the girly clothes. She wanted a preppy boy, and she was going to get one, baby girl notwithstanding. This girl has not spoken to her mother in years.
Another went through high school in the outfits she’d been given, b/c her parents didn’t like her taste in clothes when they went “shopping.” She lived in cast-offs from her friends closets, or clothes she’d made out of her sheets. Not- there’s no money, and she’s being a heroically resourceful poor person- but, she’ll get clothes if the parents like them. Her friends could not comprehend a family with two parents with walk- in roomsize closets full to the brim could keep two children in ragged, grown-out of, cast-offs from other people. Not their own castoffs- other family’s castoffs.
Maids- paycheck disputes.
Dinner parties- eventually, they don’t get invited.
Work: well……
Charity: Bowling Alone is how society adapted to the Baby Boom. Everyone else tried to escape their presence by going home.
Birds of a feather do flock together. Find one narcissist, you’ll find the narcissist they are having an affair with. Or, even, they quote and repeat lies.
IMO, “narcissism” is an over-diagnosed condition.
I’ve had the misfortune to be in close proximity to people who match the monstrous description above to a fault, and this advice is valid for dealing with such extreme cases.
Far more often, I’ve heard people slandered as “narcissists” merely because they resisted socialization by a group, or manipulation by a [usually former] romantic partner.
“The nail that stands up gets hammered down,” is the principle often used to justify the persecution of individualists endowed with greater than normal self-esteem who don’t bend to the expectations of their peers or partners.
For example, Steve Jobs was supposedly a cruel tyrant to work for, caring more about his vision than the suffering caused by its manifestation, but he was also very generous and philanthropic in a manner inconsistent with a diagnosis of pure narcissism.
IMO, it’s important to distinguish between actual narcissists (manipulative predators who don’t care about anybody else except as prey), and nominal “narcissists” (individualists who prioritize their own perspective over fitting in).
Narcissism is also a matter of degree – fortunately, full monsters are more rare than half-monsters and quarter-monsters. My personal theory is that people are narcissists to the extent they have arrested development during the “Terrible Twos” before toilet training (hence a tendency to have adult tantrums). However, I don’t know if I’ve ever met a real person completely devoid of selfishness.
There’s an ongoing debate in society about the ideal ratio of selfishness to altruism. Some people claim anybody with a degree of selfishness is immoral to that degree, while others claim anybody who practices altruism is a fool. Even if a person compromises 50/50, should loved ones have a higher priority for receiving one’s non-selfishness than strangers? How much consideration is a stranger entitled to from a non-narcissist?
how much of your shadow do you recognize? is probably the best test. I know I am self- centered, and I assume that other people are, too. It’s where good manners come in- I know to ask about other people’s health and concerns. I know to keep my snarky comments to myself. And I know to ask follow- up questions and listen intently. I assume there will be a quiz. It’s not natural, or easy. It’s easy when the person is interesting, and fluid in their speech. But, the valuable joy of really learning about a person – that takes work. And it is a joy that trancends my lonely little self- centered world.
some people cannot tolerate even knowing that they have a shadow. That’s when it’s dangerous. Otherwise- eh, if it’s a boss, the person writing the paycheck, have your own private, critical thoughts- and go on your way.
It really is why I cannot stand my mother-in-law. There’s no privacy of thoughts- she is constantly alert to fleeting expressions. I’m allowed to think she’s barking mad, without telling her. I can control my features, I can control what I say, and yet she calls out- you look so and so. No privacy. It’s none of her business. My grandmother valued the right words, and she knew she was asking for polite submission. she didn’t care about the fleeting critical expression. Manners are the asbestos gloves of society.
I can relate to this! Except for the “lonely little self-centered world” part. You may be lonely or self-involved, but not because of your good social skills. You’re able to successfully navigate interpersonal situations, unlike your intrusive MIL. She makes life unpleasant for those around her. You don’t. I find most people’s conversation to be of little interest but I can appear interested. I think it’s more polite than looking bored.
honestly, ask enough questions and enough follow-up questions. nearly everyone will open up to something immensely strange and satisfying. it takes work. it takes practice. but—really—I promise—most people have some oddity or personal moment that will make you happy that you got to see it. for quiet people- you might be the only person that knows it. sometimes it takes patience. but it’s there. it’s like holding orchids in your hand, while they are still alive, and in their habitat in the rain-forest. you can see colors shimmering off the spectrum, nearly.
or turning a corner onto something stranger and more lovely than you’d ever thought possible.
I’m mostly lonely b/c I’m grouchy and literate and picky with high standards. Most people do like me, and I facilitate a lot of other friendships- I know enough good about each person to make good introductions. But what I want to talk about? Mostly, I don’t. I scare people, or I’m talking about some obsession that bores them silly, or I’m playing with ideas that make sense to my close friends- it’s how we got to be friends- and are considered arcane by most people around me. I expect people to be obsessive about their interests, and I get to hear what makes it great, without having to work on it, myself. So there is an upside to asking questions and listening to stuff I don’t care about.
ari wrote: “it’s like holding orchids in your hand, while they are still alive, and in their habitat in the rain-forest. you can see colors shimmering off the spectrum, nearly.”
Cool imagery, my friend! It reminds me of my last date, last week. We were introduced by mutual friends, who I guess didn’t care about whether we had anything in common, reasoning that a single male and a single female was more than enough for a good match.
She looked fine, and she was socially adept, but like most people she was totally involved in her own non-sensical world. Now, I know from many years of observation (and personal projection) that most people think they’re the most interesting person in the world. My favorite activity in the world is exploring other peoples’ nonsensical views of the world, which reveals all of those “colors shimmering off the spectrum, nearly.”
The problem is that I find her world fascinating, but she has no interest in my world. She seems to like me (at least she tolerates my companionship without complaint), but it’s as if my world was completely boring, not worth the effort of exploring. I don’t think she even believes that I’m from a different world.
You are more willing to invest time hearing about other people’s thoughts and activities than most folks are. It’s to your credit. I don’t reveal much about myself since it bores me to death to talk about myself. So when people ask me questions, I turn the conversation back to them.
Oh, Joe, give her a second chance.
If she’s been taking women’s magazine advice–she’s trying to dazzle you with her uniqueness. You were basically front-row at a long, long advertisement. If she was talking the whole time, and possibly fidgeting a little- she was trying to hold your attention enough that you’d be so dazzled that you would call her again. She’s trying to be individual and different than all her friends, and all your possible ex- girlfriends, or potential girlfriends.
So, give her a second chance, and find out if she’s calmed down enough to be interested in you.
I didn’t learn to ask questions and follow up by regular dating. I’m horrid at that- the first two guys I crushed on, I stood up- they were so perfect I was sure they’d stand me up first. The next beautiful guy tells me we had the worst first date he’d ever had. The most beautiful man I ever saw- and now my husband- tried to break up with me regularly, for the first few months- it was that bad.
I learned the asking things bit when a friend and I decided to make a self- help game of dating. We’d go out with guys, and chart where they’d been. We had flaws–frizzy hair, short, plain, glasses, ferocious shyness- you name it, we had it- but we had a sense of adventure. So, we’d go out with anyone. And we had to remember where they’d been, so that meant asking about stories, and trying to remember them. And to win, that meant going out with terrifying guys- older, military, world travellers, geeks supreme ( electronics factories in the far east- score!) It got fairly competitive fairly fast, and other friends got into it, too. So, dating competitiveness kicked in. Being, um, not a model like my roommate, and so on, I started researching how to deal with people, b/c I wanted to win, not ” I want to find Prince Charming.”
A regular girl can’t stand up to that standard. Try again, and see if she calms down.
I’ll think about it, my friend.
In the meantime, Hello Genius: “Robody” (get’s interesting at 53 seconds):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZSbGhNZI_g
Joe, you wrote, “The problem is that I find her world fascinating, but she has no interest in my world. She seems to like me (at least she tolerates my companionship without complaint), but it’s as if my world was completely boring, not worth the effort of exploring. I don’t think she even believes that I’m from a different world.”
GAAAGGGHH! My only question is, what is fascinating about her world? She sounds quite tedious to me. I think you deserve someone who finds you extremely interesting.
ari,
” that meant going out with terrifying guys- older, military, world travellers”
Why exactly was that “terrifying”?
I confess, I was in my mid 40′s, “older, Military, World travelled” before I met my wife. Most/all the women I dated before her throughout my 30′s seemed strangely intimidated by me, no matter how “gentle” this gentleman tried to be.
I always felt like I was walking on eggshells, waiting for them to “bail” in a panic. Being Stood-up with no explanation after several seemingly “good dates” was commonplace. Was it a fear of real intimacy? They tended to be younger “college age” singles at the time, and this behavior tended to occur closer to the Holidays than in the summer.
Or was it a fear of ME, like I was some potentially violent suicidal vet they were accusomed to through the media. What are (were) they so afraid of?
My wife and I joke, she married me because I was the only guy she ever met that never apologised for “having a pair”, and I married her because she’s got “stones”
It’s all a matter of degree. Just like there’s a spectrum going from “neurotypical” to a geekish person to “aspie” to autist (increasingly intense variants of the same cognitive phenomenon), there’s a spectrum going from somebody with a narcissistic streak to a narcissistic person to somebody with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder). I am no psychologist but have seen a thing or two from a HR/management perspective, and that included a couple of near-clinical NPD cases. 0bama fits the description to a T.
For an NPD case, as well described in the article, other people do not exist except as sources of “narcissistic supply”, which they feel entitled to regardless of actual merit. This is emphatically NOT the same as being ambitious/driven (I know extremely ambitious scientists and musicians who are more annoyed than anything else by undeserved praise), self-centered, or emotionally “hard of hearing”. “Aspies” are the latter, and often as indifferent to “narcissistic supply” as NPD cases are addicted to it.
Nor is it the same as a sociopath. A narcissist may engage in immoral or even criminal behavior in pursuit of narcissistic supply, but at some level knows what he is doing is wrong. The very concept would be alien to a sociopath.
Dr. Pat Santy (the now-retired psych blogger drsanity.blogspot.com) noted that there is an inverted form of narcissism, namely the morbid, self-loathing idealization of somebody else (or an abstract “other”). She considers healthy self-love to be a ‘golden mean’ state in between these two extremes.
We all are a bit narcissistic, I think, it’s just the run amok Orsons that highlight the disorder.
No question. There is a line in the column that specifies: ” Anyone with five or more of the following traits qualifies as a narcissist.” Everyone has some of these traits, indeed.
Indeed, what is the difference between a personality trait and a personality disorder? A matter of degree. A psychologist friend of mine told me: “if the trait starts impeding a person’s normal functioning, or that of those around him, it becomes a disorder”.
I’ve met some, but I don’t know any.
They are similar to; they probably are, the extremely competent employee who is incapable of being a team player. I’ve had a few work with, or for me for a while. In the end they are never worth the trouble.
I don’t have time for Orson. Do you?
You mean the extremely competent employee who isn’t a sheep/lemming and isn’t on face book and isn’t an emotionally needy “joiner”? That would be me, but I’m no narcissist as I have no problem feeling remorse or empathy and am far from holding any delusions of grandure, but people do tend to bore me to tears. Why is it not sufficient just to be good at what I do? Do I have to join your little club too?
“Differential diagnosis” is important indeed. Being an introvert, being on the Asperger spectrum, or being just single-minded are just three things that are NOT the same as narcissism yet could be confused with it by the unwary.
If you can honestly and truthfully say you do not live for narcissistic supply nor recognize other people solely as sources for same, you are not a narcissist.
My older sister is a narcissist. I didn’t get the full expression of that until my mother was dying. She said to the doctor: “Let’s just get this over with.” After my mother’s death she proclaimed that she was now the matriarch. I don’t know if I will ever fully recover from having had her as my older sister, but I do know that she is no longer in my life and that I am better for it. Live and learn, eh?
In business, they’re easy to spot – they’re the people who call you, and as soon as you pick up the phone, they put you on hold (I actually had a client who did this). They’re important enough to waste your time, but you’re not important enough to waste theirs.
Unfortunately for Belladonna’s position, many, perhaps most, of the most accomplished people in the world have at least a touch of narcissism. Nothing of any substance was ever accomplished by reasonable people. It’s the unreasonable people who make human progress. Reasonable people are the sheepish masses.
You can find narcissistic behaviors in many entrepreneurs and inventors.
One almost has to be narcissistic to insist on being right when everyone says you’re wrong.
Also, I think Ms. Rogers is conflating people who are narcissistically impaired with those who have full blown narcissistic personality disorder. Folks with NPD are indeed monstrous, but less disordered narcissists are indeed capable of expressing gratitude and remorse. That’s why you’ll find plenty of narcissists in psychotherapy but rarely someone with NPD. Basically, if you have a conscience, you don’t have NPD.
Anne Parrish, way way back in the 20s or 30s, wrote a stunning short story about a narcissist (forget her name) called “All Kneeling.”
If you can get it from Amazon old books, worth checking out. I must have read it 4o or 50 years ago but sticks with me (little bits, mostly fading at 91).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001NBSJC6/ref=sr_1_1_up_1_main_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318353440&sr=1-1&condition=used
I was dealt a knife blow through the back into my heart by a narcissistic family member a year and a half ago. She had taken turns with others, but because I had never harmed her and in fact always loved and supported her, I didn’t expect the viciousness of her attack. (I think narcissists have to have enemies and the concomitant drama.) Painfully I have learned to see that none of it was my fault except my own vulnerability. I am taking care of that business now, for sure. Belladonna, your column confirms my own process…
Closely related to Disassociation Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Try NOT to be in a relationship with someone like that – you may wind up hurt or even dead. Study these psychological syndromes and be prepared to recognise the well-hidden symptoms.
I grew up around three aunts who were in this category, and basically demanded to be the center of attention 24/7/365 for the entire family. They tended to “gang up” on anybody who they felt wasn’t paying them sufficient homage. Each one of them had all of the traits listed.
Two finally passed on. The remaining one decided that somehow I was at fault for everybody else not currying her favor sufficiently to please her. She demanded to know why I “did not respect her”.
I told her. In detail. (My Abnormal and Applied Psych hours came in very handy in doing so.)
She cursed me roundly, swore she would never speak to me again (hurray), and then went to the rest of the family and told them how I had “dissed” her, demanding that they unite with her against me.
What actually happened was that the rest of them basically said, “But Aunt ____, (eon) just told you the truth. You really do act like that.”
She cut the entire family dead after that. And hasn’t spoken to any of them since. Or me, either.
I call it a win-win.
cheers
eon
Amen Belladonna …
I had a narcissist in my family and learned only too much from him! I hope I’ve stamped out all the obvious legacies of those experiences.
I’ve heard this type referred to as an “oxygen-sucker,” that is someone who sucks all the oxygen out of the room by his or her actions. In a meeting, everyone else soon falls asleep, suffering from boredom AND from oxygen deprivation. In my family, this person had only about 10 or 15 distinct conversations and as he aged with Alzheimer’s the number shrunk … and his tenacity increased. It was truly unpleasant.
Professionally, I work in an environment filled with narcissists. Or at least many of them APPEAR to be excessively self-focused. I suppose some of the behavior can be a kind of defense mechanism. And sometimes what I see is the application of very fine intellects on critical problems … if you can’t keep up … well too bad, or so they might be thinking.
At the end of the day … at the end of one’s life, these things will all fall away. Compassion endures. The legacy of compassion gets passed on from generation to generation. The phone call to your daughter every birthday at the precise hour of her birth. The smell of brisket cooking in the kitchen reminding you of your mother or grandmother. Teaching your son to play catch … with the glove you had as a boy. These CAN grow beyond reminders, and become true touch stones when I pull them into my life and practice what was behind them.
I suppose this is most true when I look at another individual and see “with God’s eyes” the true value there … when I see just how wonderful they really are … as people to be cherished. Learning to do that is human, at its best.
Amen, Frankns.
Glorious.
A cold detatchment and unrelenting envy and resentment characterizes the three I’ve known in my life. The superficial charm is a means for acquiring internal supplies, which are never adequate to overcome a deepseated conviction of inadequacy. One source for further reading is Dr. Otto Kernberg’s “Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism.”
We were young, and by rights, ought to have been dating high school seniors.
Men are scary, in general. Read any Glamour magazine- it has articles by women who think ya’ll are from another planet- not even Mars- farther, farther, farther out. Or any review of a romance novel. The younger readers haven’t got a clue what guys are like.
Then, add in no chaperones. We had all had chaperoned dates up to that point. I don’t feel bad about it, or immature, b/c I chaperoned friends in their twenties, who were just really uncomfortable one-on-one at first. Mind you- one friend looked like Barbie, dressed like slutty Barbie, and was Farah Fawcett’s cousin. She looked like she could eat men with salsa, for breakfast. Terrified of single first dates. ( I’m not kidding about model friends)
Or, say, violence. Have you ever been hit on a date? I have. Have you ever been threatened with a gun? My friends have. Me, too. Supposedly nice guys with decent jobs and friends. And it’s not ever who you expect. It would be simpler if, say, you could dismiss all military- but what about the restauranteur? or the policeman working for the court? Add in, this was a famously corrupt, violent city. Police were getting arrested for violence and drug-running. So, swearing out a complaint really wasn’t going to work. One friend tried.
About half of the “true crime” reality shows involve a date with a stranger. It’s the girl that goes missing, never the guy. Two girls from my high school disappeared on a double- date. It’s possible. It’s not like guys come with safety badges, you know?
I mean, Candy Spelling dated an old guy when she was 18, and look at her now. Nicole Simpson dated an old guy- and, well, we’ve seen the trial.
The standing up- easy- low to no self- esteem. I stood up the most beautiful, gorgeous guys b/c I was pretty sure they would either stand me up, or only ask about my best friend, or have sex with me and then dump me, or try to have sex with me, and then ruin my reputation by claiming we’d gone the distance. The sort of things that happened with regular immature guys, but that I didn’t particularly care about. Read Tucker Max, to give you an idea of the sort of guy like that. I think he’s weenie compared to the guys I dated. And he’s got three books about what a whoremongering jerk he is.
Or, say, the sort of guy who would want a long- term relationship with no children at all- who you might fall in love with- except your version of happiness is considered “tacky” “bourg(how do you spell it?) wah” “possessive”? What if you want marriage and babies and a degree? I’ve had those offers. It’s heartbreaking, feeling ashamed for wanting a happy marriage, and a family, and feeling like it’s not something you deserve, b/c of whatever flaw that gets pointed out over and over and over.
what if you want a happy marriage, not a submissive doormat sort of thing? And they’ve got their preacher on their side, saying they are right? ( the sort of person who proposes this is not a happy, well-adjusted, normal person) Or feeling that maybe the sort of person who brings God in like an enforcer maybe might be just a little unclear about this whole God business. My grandmother was a big fan of one guy like that. I’d finally had enough practice being “bad” ( to the rest of the world- it looks like having a spine).
Or say, Mr Sophisticated would laugh at you for being such an clueless hick. You know, b/c when you are young, you are clueless.
how’s that for a short list?
Or, say, the guy will drink. High- schoolers have to put some effort into finding alcohol, but a grown man? after all the school info sessions about how out-of-control one gets after drinking? that don’t specify that one drink is one thing, and five tequila shots is something else entirely?
Or, well, any guy is usually going to remember or recount only the good parts. Girls mention everything. So, when a guys talking- you’re not thinking, forty girls with 50 good parts, you’re thinking about one entirely overwhelmingly perfect other girl versus little ol’ you. It’s not a good feeling.
Or, knowing that you are entirely disposable. Used to be, supposedly you could dazzle a guy with, ah, physical prowess? is that a nice way of saying it? Now, presumably, girls are completely adept at, well, everything. Add in a guy with a porn collection–that’s just a recipe for misery and humiliation, any way you look at it. And there is literally nothing you can do, that someone else can do better, or more theatrically, and, well, with less emotional cost to the guy. Warmth assumes he might like you for you. How often does that come up?
And, again, that whole asymmetric information thing. If he’s in the military- he’s been places that aren’t taught in school. at all. no geography, not one single class. if he’s in tech- again- places not mentioned in the news, just yet, if it’s cutting edge. Doesn’t it bug you when someone has no clue where you’ve been, or what you’ve been through? Imagine being that person, the no-clue person who knows they won’t know enough, ever.
and, if he’s good at guy stuff- I can assure you- whatever he’s good at- is not taught in english class- which, btw, is about half of all girly classes. Reading, writing, poetry, theatre, speech, social studies. To even understand what guys do ( and mind you, I’m just going off- he’s gorgeous, b/c face it, brains are behind the face) gorgeous guys- I’ve had to study military history on my own, which means I get it wrong- electrical engineering basics- again, I’m getting it wrong- chemistry- again, not a good, solid grasp- water-processing plants and reverse osmosis- marketing, legal work ( as distinguished from law school) topology, number theory, medical equipment factories and supplies, political history, how to set up a tank attack, how to judge your sales staff and their production numbers, all sorts of countries’ history and writings, oil exploration and processing…just to carry on half- decent conversations with really interesting, nice guys. They are good at this stuff, not me. I’m trying to stay level and pleasant with my really shabby education. It’s intimidating.
A smart, pulled together guy with all sorts of life experiences offers to take you out: When you’ve been around ignorant, violent low-lifes, it looks scary, not fabulous cool. It’s completely a gamble. But- again, if you want to get away from ignorant, violent low-lifes, you have to gamble.
have I answered your question?
and, specifically, military? I went to high school with guys who joined the military. And at the end of the summer of their basic training, I’d had a summer of teenage parties, and they learned how to kill someone. And then the next year, I had, you know, homework dramas, and they had, you know, killing communists in combat drama. That’s one year. Imagining more than one year’s change?
It’s a pretty big hill to climb.
I have a friend who meets the criteria. She considers herself to be a wonderful driver and I hate to drive so the relationship serves a purpose. The only one who can ‘outtalk’ her is her dog who has a very loud and shrill bark. If I do manage to get a word in, she doesn’t listen. A trip with her is a little vacation. She would never notice if her listener was wearing headphones or ear plugs.
I know what drives most narcissists.
They are victims of sexual abuse. Usually from when they were very young. I know the signs very well. I almost married one. In my opinion, for instance, writer/philosopher Ayn Rand was one. And so is Obama. Controlling behavior is the big one, obviously. Refusal to even listen to a contrary opinion, is another.
Look at the offer Obama has made the whole country; “Buy this crappy insurance, or else!” “The science is settled.” “I won the election, remember?” “Don’t talk back, you bitter clingers.” “Don’t make fun of my ears!” “I’m going to ration your electricity.” “You’ve made enough money.” And they smoke.
You read that right. They smoke. Now, I’m not saying everyone who smokes is a narcissist. And I’m not saying all narcissists do smoke. What I’m saying is, smoking is a sign of abuse. Which can create narcissism. My ex-finance, started smoking when she was just nine years old. She smoked like she was mad at the world, because she was mad at the world. And everyone in it. Even though she was always on a desperate quest, to win the good opinion of people she did not like.
The only way to make peace with a narcissist, is to agree with them. And it rarely lasts long. Obama smokes. I know he vowed he quit. So what? He use to. And besides, smokers vow to quit all the time. They never do. They can’t. Not without outside help,they can’t.
But thee sign is; their insistence you feel sorry for them. They love pity. I’m not talking your typical piss and moan artist. A “Oh poor me,” type. We all feel sorry for ourselves, from time to time. No, I mean someone who looks for problems, or goes above and beyond the call, to get upset about something. Even if they have to make it up. They can hear an insult in anything. That is what I mean.
And that is Obama. Not to mention Rand. Or my ex-fiance.