Madame Speaker, Have You No Decency?
The Democrats are in quite a fix. In an attempt to satisfy their netroot base and continue their vendetta against the Bush administration they have set themselves up for the charge of hypocrisy, perhaps the only unforgivable sin in politics. The subject of course is the CIA interrogation tactics.
In their efforts to smear and perhaps prosecute Bush administration lawyers and specifically two attorneys — John Yoo and Jay Bybee — who drafted the now-released interrogation memos, they have themselves become ensnared in a bubbling controversy.
Politico reports:
For Democrats pushing an investigation into potential criminal wrongdoing in the war on terrorism, the GOP now has a two-word response: Nancy Pelosi.
Republicans say new revelations about a CIA briefing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi received in 2002 have given them their best shot yet at blocking a sprawling probe into Bush administration interrogation techniques by allowing them to insist that its targets would include the speaker of the House. “If someone is going to schedule hearings, I believe that the first witness should be Nancy Pelosi,” Rep. Pete Hoekstra, the ranking member on the House intelligence committee told Politico. “Clearly, she was involved in policy formulation.”
But it is not just Republicans who are going in for the kill. Mainstream reporters like Mara Liasson (“this becomes a big problem, because it looks like the Democrats are being hypocrites”) and liberal columnists like Marty Peretz (“I’m Sick of Pelosi, Her Sanctimony and Her as Speaker; Maybe She Should Hand the Gavel Over to Jane Harman”) have joined the conservatives who wonder how it is that Pelosi can seek to prosecute Bush officials for failing to realize they were condoning “torture” when she and other Democrats seemed unconcerned about these same practices when they were briefed.
Pelosi is not alone, of course. Jay Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee from 2007 to 2009, is hip deep in this as well. The Wall Street Journal reports:
The West Virginian was briefed at least 12 times more about interrogation techniques, legal authorities and other aspects of the program. The last, in June 2008, was offered to 10 members of the Senate Intelligence Committee and covered “discussion of EITs and the OLC [Office of Legal Counsel] opinions. Specific mentions of waterboarding numerous time.”
Yet in October 2008, following a Washington Post report on the existence of the OLC memos, Mr. Rockefeller disclaimed any knowledge of the opinions. “If White House documents exist that set the policy for the use of coercive techniques such as waterboarding, those documents have been kept from the committee,” said Mr. Rockefeller. “That is unacceptable, and represents the latest example of the Bush Administration withholding critical information from Congress and the American people in an attempt to limit our oversight of sensitive intelligence collection activities.”
Pelosi wouldn’t no torture from torch her.
They will choose to protect her. Waterboarding to them is only a political tool to accomplish an end. They have so little to gain from making Bush look bad, compared to what they have to lose now. They will find something else, and hopefully think carefully the next time. If they avert this one, it will have been too close for comfort.
PIMF: know not no
Wasnt Mcarthy right about the communist infiltration in most regards?
The Dems never gave a damn if someone was tortured, they only used it as a flail to beat W with. If they were concerned about the treatment of their fellow human beings they would have been up in arms about Clinton and rendition, and Obama’s apparent return to such a policy.
It is, and always was, cheap political theatre.
Have You No Decency?
Jenny, moral vanity only works for donkeys. They can wish kidney disease on you and…
Libs care little more about the “enhanced interrogation” of a dark-skinned person than they do about the suffering a fetus goes through when it’s being vacuumed out of a womb.
They are merely a prop in the grand scheme of things to get/maintain control.
Nancy Pelosi has no decency—but she also knows that the Pravda like MSM will provide her with cover. We now have a legacy media that is hardly anything less than a propaganda tool of the Democratic Party. It is very difficult to get the truth out.
Please explain to me how listening to a brief on how torture was being carried out is even close to actually authorizing torture?
Let’s say my boss pulled me into his office and told me that, for the survival of the company, he might need to, at some point in the future, commit some unscrupulous act that he assured me, based upon written statements from our company lawyers, was not a crime, and he also assured me that if such an unscrupulous act were necessary, he would meet with me again to brief me on the specifics of it. By the way, he adds, if you go against me on this, I’ll send out a company-wide memo letting everyone know that you’re a traitor who does not have the company’s best interests in mind and cannot be trusted.
Then let’s say my boss goes through with the unscrupulous act, withholds the specifics and recurrences of the act from me, and then it turns out the act is illegal after all?
What exactly am I now guilty of? Am I guilty of being overly trusting of my boss? Am I guilty of not spying on my boss to find out what he was actually doing? Am I guilty of not whistleblowing?
But analogies aside, I am more than willing to let Pelosi spend a year or two in jail if it means that Bush and Cheney get life.
Why do y’all ask so many rhetorical questions?
The party that condones partial birth abortion is upset with a little waterboarding??
Please don’t make me laugh…
They believe in nothing, except power for their party.
Good catch!
The Democrats are back-pedaling on this faster than you can say “waterboarding.”
Remember, it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up . . . . .
Not surprisingly, Mastor of Puppets oversimplifies.
Pelosi was briefed, had no problem with what she was told regarding interrogation, asked if there was more that we could do to extract information, and seven years later, she lies about what she’s told.
Muppetperson can’t see this. He/She is still blinded by BDS. Get over it……You won!
By the way, were you in the room when Bush threatened all of Congress with the “Go along with this, or else….” comment. If not then you are making a ridiculous assumption.
That last line of yours REALLY speaks volumes about your mindset. Get help.
asdf, McCarthy never made any concrete, factually-accurate statement. Ever.
All he ever did was claim that there were Communists/sympathizers in the government, which is not much of a stretch.
#9 Puppetperson
“Am I guilty of being overly trusting of my boss?”
You do realize that this is Pelosi and Bush you are speaking of here right? You’re suggesting that Pelosi was overly trusting of Bush?
Thats it everybody…..this is officially a Comedy Comment Board now.
Ms. Rubin:
“That could well provide ample ammunition to Pelosi’s critics on the Left and Right to argue that she has lied about her involvement and deserves some sort of rebuke, if not loss of her gavel. Well, that seems a long shot given Pelosi’s iron grip on the House.”
Ms. Pelosi doesn’t have an iron grip on ethics or common sense, let alone that pack of egotistical bitches that we call the House of Representatives.
How secure could she be when she’s counting on the likes of Maryland’s Steny Hoyer to “have her back”?
Watch the fellow who claims to have been born in Hawaii throw Nancy right under his eco-friendly hybrid bus.
He would stand to gain quite a bit by forcing her to strangle herself with her own pantyhose, since it would cause everyone to forget about Dick Cheney’s “kill shot” challenge to him to release ALL of the memos, and disclose what benefits the EIT wrought.
Fashion advice for Ms. Pelosi: Wear a combination of yellow and black…you know, like a speed bump.
@9. Pastor of Muppets:
Do you have principles? Do you know about good and evil?
These are not simply words to bandy about at cocktail parties to impress your college professors. They are real and have real meaning.
If we are to believe Ms. Pelosi, she knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that waterboarding is torture and thus evil. Yet, she will listen in meeting after meeting as it’s explained that this is current practice? Why didn’t she speak out against this evil at the time? How did she continue to represent a country that she felt was committing horrible evil? Either she knew this was evil and was silent or she knows this is not evil and is playing politics. Either case shows a woman willing to sell any principled stance for political gain.
A principled person would not stand still as a group they are the leader of commits evil and atrocities. People with principles will not stand for evil in any amount.
You admit clearly that you either have no principles or they are for sale in your last line of your post. If you are willing to sacrifice Pelosi (in your mind innocent) simply in order to punish Bush/Cheney (in your mind guilty) then you have no principles. You are amoral at best or immoral at worst.
#9. [chuckle] So, you would fight to the last Pelosi?
Bush and Cheney are already out of office. maybe they could take most of congress with them. No show trial but real prosecution, including all the democrats that knew about the “so called” torture.
#18 Peter
Thank you. You said, very eloquently, what I was trying to say in Post # 14.
“You admit clearly that you either have no principles or they are for sale in your last line of your post. If you are willing to sacrifice Pelosi (in your mind innocent) simply in order to punish Bush/Cheney (in your mind guilty) then you have no principles. You are amoral at best or immoral at worst.”
Brilliantly spoken.
Pastor of muppets…
Let’s also assume that your boss tells you that if he doesn’t commit this so-called unscrupulous act, you and many other employees might die. Let’s also assume that he doesn’t commit the unscrupulous act. And let us assume that you then die. Now you are, ummm, dead. End of game. Thanks for taking us through that exercise in imagination.
Hey, Pastor of Muppets,
Let’s say that your boss knows that if he doesn’t commit this unscrupulous act, many employees including you might die. Now let’s say your boss doesn’t commit the unscrupulous act. Now let’s say you die. Now you are dead.
Thanks for taking us through this exercise in imagination. I hope you found the outcome satisfying.
Pastor of Muppets has just proven that he is not concerned whatsoever about what is right or wrong, just or unjust, legal or illegal. It all comes down to the liberal agenda. It’s never been clearer until now.
Sorry PoM….You just showed your true colors and they ain’t pretty. So much for that “liberal” open-mindedness. Respect comes when one can admit when they’re (or their party) is wrong. When you can’t even admit that Pelosi got caught lying her ass off (when even the MSM is starting to actually report on it), you really show how low you will sink to tow that party line and any respect you had was just wasted (on Pelosi no less). Buy a moral or two, it would serve you well.
Pastor of Muppets: I’m with ya! Let’s hang them all, then have a civil war to decide the structure of our government. I bet my side wins.
Let’s not forget that Nancy was (and is) the part of the gov who’s job it is to oversee the exec branch as well as either pay of or deny funding. If she felt that waterboarding was so bad (even if we were to believe her that she was only told it could be used) then she could have made a stand in congress to stop funding. She didn’t.
Now years later she’s trying to say I was mearly a bystander to a shooting and not directly involved when the fact is she was one of those in congress who bought both the gun and the repeatedly bought bullets.
Pasture of Crumpets: Ooops, that true, red vicious color of yours ripened a bit today….
Count on this being swept under the table, with minor snipings from the MSM flunkies.
Option 2 is the way to go. Appoint a special prosecutor, give him/her the necessary tools, set them loose, and let the chips fall where they may.
Anyone who knew about and condoned torture should, at the least, have their political career ended.
“9. Pastor of Muppets:
But analogies aside, I am more than willing to let Pelosi spend a year or two in jail if it means that Bush and Cheney get life.”
And I am willing to take a few roetgens in fallout if such places as san fransicko/berkeley get nuked because pissants such as yourself, have a problem with the reality of defending ourselves.
Heck, your people getting nuked would be poetic justice. LOL
Hah-hah-hah! And another 9/11 will come (much worse actually, since in the meantime Iran & Cie. have became more brazen and much, much better equipped), and we’ll see another round of moaning, groaning and justifications.
Yes, with the Clinton administration’s gooey role in the 9/11 taboo to review, with the media hounding Cheney & associates, with cohorts of haughty & irresponsible lefties weakening the nation’s tissue at any opportunity, with a nation immersed in cowardice, self-pity, ratiocinating and idiotic adulation of a likely false & despising his own contry president – hurrah, we’re liked again!
We sure are, and our enemies simply cannot find words of praise for the Democrat party – great job you did!
With them in power, we sure are in someone’s hairs. Just wait… in these types of situations, the timing is the attacker’s…
Mane, tekel, fares…
RE #14,16 Steve, # 18/Peter, #22/Anonymous, #23/Eppur Si, #24/AThinkingPerson, #25/Old Soldier #30/Fantom:
Frankly guys, I think you make a mistake going for POM’s provokations, particularly on any of Jennifer’s articles – he’s a troll on assignement to disrupt and obfuscate any discussion in which Barrack The Magnificent, the First Caliph of North America is criticized.
Do you expect any positive reasoning from him? No – he’s just doing this, according to a hymn page.
As an illustration of this situation, bellow is a quote from one of POM’s trolling partners, “Sheesh”, in a previous PJM debate, again a Jennifer Rubin piece “On The Lawless President”. Sheesh’s “confession” tells a lot about POM’s attitude:
“#103. sheesh.: You idiots think you can defeat me but you cannot because I will come back with new usernames to toy with your tiny little minds and there is nothing you can do about it. Yes I get paid to post here and so what…are you jealous? My gay friends and I are going to kick all your butts at the polls next election because gay power is going to put you hetero dinosaurs into extinction. Gay power! May 5, 2009″
Want more about POM?
How can Nancy Pelosi seek to prosecute Bush officials for condoning “torture” when she herself seemed unconcerned when briefed about the practices?
Pelosi and her boss, Obama, don’t have the slightest intention of prosecuting anyone for rendering legal opinions (opinions that Obam’;s DOJ is now currently ( yes you heard that right) relying upon in current Court filings=a.
What they are interested in is having an uninformed, lazy, brain dead, sychophantic media help them milk this anti-Bush publicity for all it’s worth.
Talk about digging your own grave. Pelosi must be six foot under now.
REMEMBER WHEN EVEN DEMOCRATS BELIEVED THAT KILLING THE BAD GUYS WAS A GOOD THING?
If they bring on the “Truth Squad”, then they’ll have to put Pelosi under the questioning. Watching her squirm would be a delight…
Casey #15, the Verona deciphers from the defunct Soviet Union proved McCarthy was underestimating the problem…
#9 muppet.your personal best,so far.
the fact you could hit submit with that statement,in it’s self is pure comedy gold.
you cannot possibly be that delusional,your strait jacket would have prevented you from typing it.
but it made me laugh out loud,so thank you.
The Democrats are in quite a fix.
I’m a Democrat. I’m not in a fix at all.
I want a complete and thorough investigation. Let the chips fall where they may. If Pelosi is hurt by the truth, so be it.
The elite leftists will protect her, and Rockefeller and of course the Obambi and of course the print media and the tv talking airheads will give them all protection so basically nothing is going to happen. Obambi or his clone Emmanual will create some phony crisis to serve as a distraction and in a few days or maybe even weeks all this will blow over and it’ll be back to business as usual. The only real hope to stick it to Princess Pelosi is if whatever is left of Republican leadership continues to hammer away, perhaps by actually demanding that an investigation into torture or waterboarding or whatever be opened and force her royal princess on the stand and get the truth out of her lying ass. And maybe if we can do that it might serve to finally get that eyes a poppin, wide eyed look out of her eyes. She’s kind of scary. Imagine waking up next to that in the morning.
Hope she has a kidney failure – ha ha ha ! Just joking !
Master of puppets has to be a conservative playing stupid for fun and creating a straw man for the conservative folk posting here. He is just making it way too easy.
Dave – I have thought tht many times but I’ve come to believe that moniker is being used by a PJM editor seeking to attract a steady stream of readers looking for a fight.
On the othe hand, I’d like to say that no one can be as stupid as that character, but just take a look at Nancy Pelosi.
#41 dave;agree.
It will take another year of democratic idiocy for most Americans to realize just how rotten to the core they really are…..it’s always this way…it won’t take long…and Obama is on his way to a Carter-like 1 term only Presidency…Good !!
I’m already sick of their communistic ways….
Pelosi deserves to be removed from office…and most of the democrats will be in fear of losing their seats in 2010…rightfully so….couldn’t happen soon enough….
The rabid frothing from the reactionary right-wingers on here is just evidence of their hysteria as it begins to permeate their thick skulls that the right wing is about to be at the center of a major war crimes trial from which there is no escape. The evidence that is piling up clearly shows that the Bush administration:
– Broke the law by torturing,
– Used some fancy lawyering to try to make torture legal,
– Lied to the public about torturing,
– Allowed ordinary soldiers to be jailed as fallguys,
– Lied again about whether the torture was effective,
– Lied again about whether information we got from torturing actually prevented an attack (it didn’t),
If Pelosi and other members of congress did know that this was happening, and did nothing to stop it, then it is all the more reason to investigate all who had knowledge. It’s time to find out who knew what and when they knew about it.
I am certain that there will be Democratic reps and agency officials who will be swept up in these charges for their knowledge and support of these crimes, but at the end of the day, this was Republican policy, and if anyone is going to ultimately end up behind bars, it’s going to be mainly Republicans. Additionally, new evidence seems to point to the fact that torture began even before any members of congress were breached.
It’s pathetic to watch the right wing flail around defending their own party’s role in illegal torture, but then turning on a dime to attack Pelosi for some hypothetical role in listening to a torture brief, as if listening to a torture brief is somehow akin to the Bush administration actually authorizing torture, and then lying about its use and capabilities to the American public.
I’ll say it again, if Pelosi was involved, put her on trial. But none of you nimrods actually want that to happen. Because if Pelosi goes on trial, she’ll only be a small fish in the trial, and at worst will most likely be censured and/or forced to resign. But as for the Bush crowd? These guys are done for. Even if there is not a single indictment, the legacy of the Bush presidency has been sealed, and America will forever remember the administration of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove and Rice as a reign of pathological maniacs who authorized illegal torture and then lied to the public about it.
And not a single one of you can prove that torture worked or that it made us any safer.
And so the only move you have left is to attack Pelosi.
Pathetic.
The real torture is listening to her tell more lies, when she’s caught telling one. Her motto should be “If at first you don’t succeed, lie and lie again.”
Nancy’s version of when she knew keeps changing. I suspect her aide, who cannot seem to be located for an interview, may meet with an unfortunate accident any day now.
“41. Dave:
Master of puppets has to be a conservative playing stupid for fun and creating a straw man for the conservative folk posting here. He is just making it way too easy.
May 11, 2009 – 8:42 pm
42. mshatto:”
What you two seem to forget is the left actually represents the left on the intelligence bell curve. Stupid people unable to prosper on their own. Failures in the darwinian universe of freedom.
It is no reach to consider that their posts here would reflect their two digit intellects.
Let’s remember, folks, Ms. Pelosi is the Speaker of the House and, as such, (frighteningly!) is third in line to the Presidency of this once-great country. Therefore, I feel compelled to defend her and say something (perhaps the only thing) positive about her:
She dresses well.
#38 michael reynolds:
“I’m a Democrat. I’m not in a fix at all.
I want a complete and thorough investigation. Let the chips fall where they may. If Pelosi is hurt by the truth, so be it.”
That’s the ticket!
Good on ya.
caution muppet.tom sowell went from an ardent marxist to being a well respected conservative intellectal and economics professer.try reading ‘conflict of visions’ sometime.
my point is;spend enough time out of the echo chamber argueing with rational human beings and you might just find yourself turned into an anti-idiotarian.
i understand it can be quite a cathartic experience.
Re: #45. Pastor of Muppets:
“The rabid frothing from the reactionary right-wingers on here is just evidence of their hysteria as it begins to permeate their thick skulls that the right wing is about to be at the center of a major war crimes trial from which there is no escape. ”
There’s no “rabid frothing” here PoM. We’re shocked at your previous comment (#9 to be exact)and besides being aghast that you actually wrote something so biased and shameless, we’re laughing at your obvious need to tow the party line at your own expense.
I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I guess there no mirrors in your home.
Real torture is looking at Pelosi’s face.
——————————————
Pelosi and Reid – miserable failures.
Re #53: “I guess there [are] no mirrors in your home.”
You might want to ACTUALLY fall out of your chair this time. You apparently must agree with the Pastor of Nothing that Nancy Pelosi deserves defending at all costs even when shown to be lying out of her shriveled up mouth? Can’t say that I’d ever tow a party line that far and throw my own moral compass out the window. That must be a liberal trait.
Defend Nancy Pelosi to the best of your ability Jeb. I await watching another liberal tapdance around the truth.
Calling water-boarding and ‘stress positions’ torture is demeaning to the thousands of victims of real torture (electrocution, mutilation, being beat to death) around the world.
#45 PoM-Yup Bush, Cheney and the gang just
wanted to lie and torture guys because they
like to lie and torture guys for no reason
other than they are like really evil bad
guys. Lucky we have you to clue us into
the inner workings of that evil empire
administration. They should call you in
to testify against the Republicans
responsible.
The role of certain Democrats is more
hazy in your mind. I wonder why? Also
you use nimrod to describe people who
don’t agree with you. Do you actually
know what that means and who that was?
The meaning you give it came from a
Bugs Bunny cartoon and that tells me
all I need to know about you.
Pastor of Muppets, saying that the Bush legacy will be sealed after a “torture” trial or “war crimes” trial or whatever is like saying that OJ was vindicated by his Not Guilty verdict in the murder trial. Everyone knows the trial and the verdict were a joke.
Heh…
I don’t think PoM has read the latest memo…Pelosi has already been thrown under the hybrid over at Democratic Underground.
PoM…RTFM!
Does anyone remember that a muppet is really a puppet?
I say ignore the puppets.
Pastor of Muppets: in your scenario, you did not provide authorization nor did you have legal oversight of your boss (unlike Pelosi and friends over the CIA and Administration). Your scenario is seriously flawed and is a poor analogy. Pelosi is trying to have it both ways.
There’s an ugly picture starting to develop here. Torture was used on detainees to help substantiate a nonexistent link between Al Qaida and Iraq in order to justify the invasion of Iraq.
IF that’s the case, I say round up the whole administration and their enablers, put them on trial and when found guilty, sentance them to some shithole like Abu Ghraib. And let’s do everything we can to make sure Cheney lives a long time behind bars.
This will in no way get the C.I.A, Cheney and Rumfeld off the hook. If there were others averting their eyes to sin…they will be directing their eyes to HIM-BUSH
The Bush administration was the most unconstitiutional in history. They should hang.
I can not believe that the Bush administration isn’t here to get a direct hit on the side of the face-only the democrats who hated Bush are in the line of fire-this is totally screwed up. Republicans rot!
Sweet blog. I never know what I am going to come across next. I think you should do more posting as you have some pretty intelligent stuff to say.
I’ll be watching you .