Lou Dobbs and His Hypocritical Crusade Against Employers of Illegals
As someone who appeared now and then on CNN’s Lou Dobbs Tonight, and who was, in fact, once singled out for blistering criticism in a monologue by the host, I have a pretty clear recollection of Dobbs’ shtick as relates to those who benefited from the labor of illegal immigrants.
To hear Dobbs tell it, employers were always the chief villains in this drama. He would assure his audience that if, for instance, dairy farmers in Central California were willing to pay a little more in wages, American teenagers would gladly close their laptops, put away their iPhones, and go milk cows. They’d also go pick peaches, tar roofs, clean horse stalls, pry the meat from crab shells, or do any of the dirty jobs that immigrants perform from one end of the fruited plain to the other.
It was all part of what Dobbs — filled with populist rage and flirting with class warfare — called the “war on the middle class” by the rich and powerful. The implication was that anyone who hired an illegal immigrant was naturally out to exploit them. After all, the reasoning went, why else hire them? In the world according to Dobbs, it was never the case that the employer meant well but simply couldn’t find an American worker to do a job. It was always that no self-respecting American worker would do these jobs for the wage that employers were paying.
Baloney. This is the kind of nonsense that is easy to spout from a comfortable chair and an air-conditioned television studio, far removed from strawberry fields and apple orchards. I always wondered why Dobbs went after those who benefit from illegal immigrant labor with such zeal — as opposed to say, immigrants themselves. Often times, Dobbs would say that immigrants were doing the rationale thing by seeking out gainful employment to provide for their families, and that he only wished they’d do it legally. But employers were always assumed to be acting in a deviate and deceitful way.
Now, in light of recent news, I think that Dobbs’ crusade against those greedy U.S. employers might have been a case of self-loathing. He certainly knew the subject matter of illegal immigrant labor much better than he let on to his viewers.
A recent report by The Nation, headlined “American Hypocrite,” claims that a year-long investigation found that illegal immigrants helped maintain Dobbs’ multi-million dollar estates in New Jersey and Florida and care for the expensive show horses used by his 22-year-old daughter, a champion equestrian. The article includes interviews with five undocumented workers, including some who actually met and had brief conversations with Dobbs — in Spanish, naturally.
nice try Ruben but come on. the workers were hired by a contracting company. the company was hired by dobbs, not the workers. so whats the ‘smoking gun’ here? was lou supposed to run checks on every gardner hired? what if he did? then he would be yelled at for sterotyping and called racist for daring to assume that all latinos are illegal. then your aritical would have read more like “lou dobs is a racist and a big ole meany pants to latinos”. next lets just assume that he did know. is that hypocritical ..yes. however it does not make illegal immigration any less of a crime. it just means we bust his ass to. Again illegal means ILLEGAL. hell i admit i have hired illegals in the past too. i dont any more. im sure that companies i hire have had illegals work for them too. im not gonna check every person. thats the company i hired job to do. if i find out otherwise then the company is gone. Its time for pro illegals to quit trying to justify their illegal actions with excuses. Im all for busting illegals themselves as well as the companies that hire them. as far as i am concerned the problem is so bad and so mishandeled that we need to make america EXTREAMLY hostile to illegals and the host companies. no healthcare, no school, no jobs, no rights no protections NOTHING. since illegal supporters like to whine like babies about how evil us americans are i say we make immigration laws similar to places that are REALLY hostile to illegals…you know like mexico.
was lou supposed to run checks on every gardner hired?
If I was making my bones bashing illegals I would. Actually, I would take the more obvious step of hiring contractors who proactively and publicly refrain from hiring illegals. These would likely be contractors affiliated with a union. Obviously, the cost of labor would be much higher and I would have to pay much more to have the weeds whacked, and the quality of work would probably be less.
Personally, I think I would avoid over-bashing illegals.
For the record, I think SB 1070 is a pretty good law.
I didn’t know landscapers were unionized.
UNREALISTIC; Bill.
But typical of the “purity standards” the Left regularly attempts to set up for the Right (while ignoring themselves).
“What they [ILLEGAL ALIENS] did deserve is something that, ironically, Dobbs now expects the rest of us to give him: a little empathy, a fair hearing, and the benefit of the doubt.”
The bigotry of this author leans over the line on this, his latest screed. A love note to law breakers - if they’re of the “right” skin color and nationality – is all that this One-Note-Juanito can offer up to PJM.
Ruben, MOW MY LAWN!
Yeah, mow! And when you’re done wipe my butt!
Anyone cough using illegal aliens in their workforce should be hunted down,all worldly possessions confincated & made to work hard labor on the rock pile for 20 years.
The only people who are hypocritical in this Illegal Alien debate are those who refuse to see that the only item that matters here is that Illegal Aliens got into the US ILLEGALY, like you.
You don’t reward a crime, EVER! Navarette, you’ve shown yourself as among the most dense individual in this debate. It’s a crime to enter the US illegally, and there shouldn’t be any reward for anyone who has committed a crime.
Ruben reminds me of a wet mouse trying to shiny up the rear leg of an elephant so he can rape it.
Annoying..
Yeah! Like he said!
The question I would put to Mr. Dobbs is; On a construction site, who is primarily responsible for the performance of a subcontractor? The answer is the prime-contractor. In this case Dobbs is the prime-contractor. Did he specify that only “Legal” workers would be allowed? If he has been deceived, has he filed fraud charges? I suspect he has not been deceived.
You have it wrong – it is the employers job to ensure each person working for him is legal. Your argument that Dobbs should have known the origins and legality of each and every worker is bogus.
Read the laws pertaining to worker status.
See The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 and the Immigration Act of 1990. The onus is placed on whoever directly pays the individual. Since Dobbs hired a contracting service it was the contractor who is obliged to check status of each and every worker. I doubt Dobbs was around his estate(s) very often and probably took little notice if he was there when work was being performed.
As for this article – just another slam on someone who is/was willing to hit at the heart of the matter – a government willing to ignore the hiring of illegals and companies willing to hire them provided there were no penalties for getting caught.
I have long advocated solving this problem by allowing young people the same latitude as what is given to illegals. They work for 10-15$ an hour and can afford to do so because the wife/girlfriend and kids get on public assistance with all the fringe benefits that come with such status – medical – dental – food stamps – housing assistance etc. Not only that but many of these young women work in the fields right along with their men 3-4 days a week while a communal day care center takes care of the kids. Each woman takes a turn at the day care in exchange for the services. Pretty common stuff around here. I live in central Washington State surrounded by farmland and lots of it. In effect the illegal is raking in more like $40-50 or more per hour of work. Not a bad days wages. Don’t believe me? I’ve seen some mighty new cars parked in the orchards around where I live – and there are lots of orchards. How do you buy a new $20-30K mini-van or suv on an illegal’s wage? Just as I outlined. We have illegals – and lots of them. Go to the Wal-Mart in Moses Lake Wa any weekend – Sunday’s are the best. It’s 3:1 or more Spanish to English speaking persons.
Oh yeah imagine that.
He expected Americans in America THE GALL OF HIM!
As mentioned above, Robert, your analogy is not only UNREALISTIC, but FALSE.
A single, private citizen in this situation is NOT a “PRIME Contractor.” If he were, he’d be required by law to have extensive paperwork of all the SUBS, and have consideranble control over them. In comparison, a single person can only hire/fire a service company.
When you buy something at a store, are YOU a PRIME contractor, or merely a buyer?
Getting gas for your car? How many papers do you demand from THEM?!
Your analogy is also typical of the “purity standards” the Left regularly attempts to set up for the Right (while ignoring themselves).
Robert,
Are YOU a PRIME contractor when you buy gas?
Do YOU ask for ALL THE PAPERS for all the employees?
RUBBISH ANALOGY.
Hey Ruben,
why don’t you take your La Raza butt back to Mexico where you belong. Stop trying to destroy our nation. We all know you are just a little reconquista lapdog for Calderon.
Yeah, mister Raza butt dog man!
Ruben,
Newsflash! These are not immigrants! These people are invaders! And you, and those with Mexican heritage that think as you, are too damn dumb to see past your own skin color. Plenty of Americans are fed up past the gills with the “they do jobs Americans won’t do” lie that your ilk keep trying to spread.
This is another one of Navarette’s “chicken or the egg” articles. Navarette has argued that Illegal ALIENS (not immigrants, but ALIENS) take jobs that are too low in pay and therefore should be allowed to stay in the US…those who have a modicum of logic (the majority in the USA) will say, jobs that illegal ALIENS take pay so low since Illegal ALIENS provide cheap labor.
Do you think for a second that these Illegal ALIENS would take those low paying jobs if they were here legally? NO. salaries for those jobs will go up if there are no Illegal ALIENS that are willing to take low pay.
like I said, chicken and the egg. if there are no illegals, there will be no cheap labor to lower salary requirements. if there are no illegals, there wouldn’t be any question as to who are hiring illegal aliens or why. if there are no illegal aliens, there wouldn’t be any articles that would put money in Navarette’s pockets since he has shown that he can’t write about anything else except for articles of appeasement to illegal aliens and advocating rewards for those who commit an illegal act against a sovereign country.
Legal American citizens USED TO DO ALL THOSE JOBS. I KNOW. I grew up in farming country, and the teens who wanted to make a little cash in September and October would go harvest tobacco – a filthy, nasty, hot, horrible, sometimes-dangerous job, for anyone who’s never done it. They got paid fair wages, $7-10 an hour back when minimum was about $2.
Then farmers started shipping in “Mexicans,” as we all referred to them: Hispanic migrant workers, legal or no, who did the same work for a fraction of the cost, often below legal minimum wage. THIS practice destroyed the legal American worker base who used to do those jobs. Not the filth, not the hardship, but rather the sudden influx of people who would do the job so cheap – and who were hostile to any outsider Americans who were still willing to do the work at the cut-rate wages.
But here’s the catch-22: give all those illegal immigrants amnesty, and in a decade they’ll be working in better jobs at legal-level wages. They DO work hard, and America rewards hard work. Then who does the crappy jobs? More illegals, who need more amnesty? This is a question no one has asked.
And as a point of complaint: I am sick-to-death of anyone of any skin tone who suggests “Americans just won’t do those jobs.” It is offensive to me and MY culture, American culture, and it takes a real bigot to imply it. I know damn well Americans will do those jobs, and I also know damn well that immigrants are not limited to just those jobs. Americans have work ethic, and immigrants have a lot more to offer than just work ethic and a willing to do slave jobs at slave wages. Stop looking at amnesty as the ONLY way to fix the problem, and perhaps we’ll suddenly have a real workable solution that benefits everyone in the long run. Like expanded legal immigration, and more employers working across the border to bring in good legal workers at fair legal wages to work safe legal jobs.
…and that is why the border needs to be secured, and illegal aliens need to be deported. the illegal alien debate is not as complicated as Navarette or the democracts are presenting it to be.
seal the border, deport illegal aliens (which is simply the feds upholding the law).
Many years ago my family had the opportunity to visit with the owner of a melon packing business in Fresno. The foreign workers had a work permit and they went back to their own country after the seasonal work was over. The American workers who packed melons along with the foreigners were mostly older high school and Fresno State students. Navaratte is just another one with a huge chip on his shoulder who believes in pay back for whatever he perceives the white people have done to ‘his’ people. White people bad, brown people good. Once the USA has been dragged down to the level of a third world standard, even Navarette will not have anywhere else to go. Neither will anybody else who is looking for a better life.
Yep, a lot of hypocrisy to go around, Anyone observing himself in a mirror is likely a hypocrit.
So far the real issue has not been touched and it is the producer of employment that is being bashed.I will have more to say on this.
Doesn’t anyone realize that labor can be priced out of the market and the labor monopoly has done that.
Oh, “Whit!, PLEASE: stop your posterior-kissing of Navarrette’s propaganda!
Hey, Ruben, when are they going to outsource your job in the name of diversity? Do you work for NPR? Speaking of diversity, does the fate of Juan Williams make you nervous in the service to multiculturalism? How is your relationships with female CEO’s and editors? Do you have a social psychologist on retainer?
PJM, WHY do you continually allow this low I.Q.’d, empathy seeking know-nothing to post anything on your site? There’s more honest intellect from a first year AP writer.
There are far more intelligent left leaning writers who favor the atrocity of ‘Immigration reform’ i.e. amnesty than this one-trick pony provides every instance.
Like any typical liberal, Ruben NEVER responds to well thought-out posts or engage in any discussion. Ruben’s no different than Joy Behar or Whoopie Goldberg when it comes to any critical thinking.
Very well stated, thanks, and funny too.
It’s interesting Ruben joins the ranks of Dobbs bashers with the same tired argument about farm workers. Ruben what about the meatpackers? Why no loco vida for the Purdue chicken workers down in TexArkania? Where is your social justice for the roofers here in Phoenix? How about those hard working maids in Las Vegas?
While trying to hit the reset button with his tribal rant from San Diego what we hear from Ruben is all about Horse groomers rights and the lettus, peaches, apples and potato crowd?
The Lou Dobbs/Meg Whitman sagas – whether led by a jaundiced journalist like Ruben or an oppertunistic maggot for money like Aldred – may provide a certain amount of satisfaction for those in the Latino community sold on the La Raza view, namely that assaulting our sovereignty is mitigated by the depth of the poverty the perp is escaping and the sincerity to work hard and contribute once jumping the border, but no matter how loud the rhyming chants, it doesnt alter much of anything.
And Ruben knows it.
This Nov will show a lot. Wasn’t the assertion that Latino’s MUST BE LISTENED TO AND GIVEN WHAT THEY ASK FOR the meme of the ’08 Obama election?
I believe the claims to 20-30% leverage in elections will get trimmed back to a more minority 12%-14%, cutting in half the claims to having their way.
The truth is a lot harder to swallow for rubes like Ruben. The cry for ‘comprehensive reform’ has been the default excuse for years now.
Well, you are going to get it Ruben but you ain’t gonna like it.
Because after a decade into the debat that reform now is going to close the kind of comfortable loopholes that encourage the illegal crossings. Sure those farmers who clamor for more fruit pickers are gonna get them.
But no more easy overstays on visas. No more birth tourism. No more special status for Mexicans based solely on geography. No more passing the hidden costs of cheap labor off to the greater community. As employers you broker your guest labor and pay for it every step of the way – and if they are seriously injured – work related or not – they get minimal care and then shipped back home.
And Mexico? Given the extensive manpower and monied foreign aid we are giving Calderon to keep his country from sliding into chaos? They are going to stop whinning about our drug habits and start co-operating as good neighbors. They can be bought off to stop facilitating this onslaught.
The HB1 types are going to get slim pickens as well. The tired arguments of Bill Gates – that somehow young americans who spend six figures to learn the professions can’t fill the jobs necessary to keep Microsoft & Apple moving forward – has fallen on deaf ears in these economic times as well.
It’s all about jobs Ruben. And your silly partisan tribal bull is as outdated as imitation navijo blankets at a Beach Boys concert in Tijuana.
Welcome to the new world immigration order in the 21 century. Pretty soon ‘show me your papers’ will include the biometrics to put to rest the multiple criminal crossings by criminals who gang banged so much they literally spoiled it ….
for the REST OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.
Give Ruben a break. He does discuss a controversial subject similar to what the PC crowd gave Juan a ride on the rails.
I’ve heard Lou Dobbs go on and on how Walmart should be boycotted because their contractor hired illegals. The same crowd has pillared Meg for her Maid that both her and her agency did background checks on and kept pictures of the ID and paperwork indicating they were legal. Did Lou in writing indicate only LEGALS be hired and that criminal background checks be done. Or did he just “wink”.
Illegal immigration is a huge mess, but crucifying the employer only, not the illegal doesn’t cut it, in particular when the entity really in charge, the Federal Government, sues a state for doing their work won’t even deport the criminals collected and found to be illegal.
I have a simple pro-market solution. Instead of putting illegal criminals in our jails, build jails in Mexico and pay the Mexicans $20K per year to keep them there with a $25K bonus at the end of the sentence provided they can show our representative that this is the same person that entered. I’m sure Mexico could provide some real h*ll holes, the word would get around and the revolving door would close.
first, there shouldn’t be a need for Lou Dobbs to indicate or insist that no illegal Aliens should be hired, it’s already in the law that no illegal aliens should be allowed to work in this country! putting that on Lou Dobbs is just another instance of the “chicken and egg” argument and it still remains that if there are no illegal aliens, Lou Dobbs wouldn’t even be questioned why he “allowed” illegal aliens to be hired because if businesses/contractors/companies follow the rule of law then there’s no need for anyone to insist that they do follow the law!
I don’t know if you’re a troll, Jay…but there seem to be ALOT of people on this thread with one and only one “argument”…one which is not only UNREALISTIC, but FALSE.
A single, private citizen in this situation is NOT a “PRIME Contractor.” If he were, he’d be required by law to have extensive paperwork of all the SUBS, and have consideranble control over them. In comparison, a single person can only hire/fire a service company.
When you buy something at a store, are YOU a PRIME contractor, or merely a buyer?
Getting gas for your car? How many papers do you demand from THEM?!
Your analogy is also typical of the “purity standards” the Left regularly attempts to set up for the Right (while ignoring themselves).
Jay,I can’t support your simple solution but I can agree that it is our government that is a major contributor to the problem.
My grandfather was growing up in Ohio in the 1870s and has told me about the Bolshevik filling the Mid West with their subversive doctrine which grew into our current labor unions.
These unions took an adversary position against profits — labor produces all and is entitled to all — is not a valid argument. Labor has no responsibility in the development, production and marketing of a product so it does not produce that service, therefore it is not entitled to those rewards.
Business produces something you want at a price you can afford and are willing to pay which includes their markup. The higher the demand the higher the mark up — unless competition cuts it down. Therefore a monopoly is never a low price bid.
All of this has a direct bearing on employment, legal or illegal. Major problem with illegal is that you are already through your restraint by law so the law has little constraint left. We should be guided by what is the best for everyone concerned, including the illegal. Nothing racial about it. Our subversives are hard at work selling their concept. As usual, they work both ends against the middle. Several optical illusions demonstrate how this concept works.
Before we can begin to solve this problem we should understand the function of business, profit, the rich, capital, etc. The Socialist viewpoint gets this bent all out of shape and the more out of shape the concept the harder they campaign against it. Fact is their product is always poverty and oppression.
Make no mistake, business has no immunity against oppression. The same spirit that works so well in our enemies can also work in our friends. Therefore we should first identify the spirit. I don’t know that this will make a lot of sense to you who read this but it is built on a solid foundation. It is just difficult to talk with those who do not speak your language and when we get into this area it is surprising the number who do not speak that language.
A profit is stealing from the worker according to this Socialist belief and it permeates our government’s attitude toward business. Our organized labor holds that Marxist doctrine that business is the enemy. Reuben brought that to the surface of my mind in his column. Business and labor are symbiotic, each dependent on the other and with a built in conflict of interest, where to draw the line between mine and yours. That line is very important because it can mean success and security or it can mean conflict and loss.
The controversy is not about illegals but about businesses making a profit paying wages someone is willing to accept. Sure, there are problems. There are also problems with a labor monopoly that pushes wages out of the market. This is due to the Bolshevik propaganda about what a job is. Is it a job you want or just the paycheck? Are you freely exchanging your time for that check or just grudgingly dragging your feet and carrying a burden of resentment which is unhealthy. Their propaganda is shown to be false in every respect but we don’t accept it as false and counterproductive because we like its promises, false promises that lead to destruction.
When I was in Chile,the last of October, 1976, four days before we chose Carter for President, I was talking with a shopkeeper in Punta Arenas. He told me that under Allende, every thing flew off the shelves and could not be replaced but now (Under Pinochet) the gaps are filling back up. Stop and look around at the gaps on our own shelves due to government interference. Those gaps are where all our jobs are going because labor has been priced out of the market. It is not the illegal immigrant but our overall labor policy.
I can’t go into detail here but our misconception of the function of a profit and what a job is worth goes a long way toward explaining what has happened. Yes, I am skipping a lot that should be covered by attitude rather than law. There is much that needs to be done but, unless we understand the real problem we will never produce a viable solution. I have tried to lay out the principles, it is up to you to come up with the wisdom to deal with those principles.
Ruben, the question is not whether Americans would do the jobs. Can we please put an end to that canard? Look, I’m perfectly happy to run a test run. Have all the illegals return to their homelands for 90 days. Three months. That’s it. An extended vacation.
Are you suggesting that no landscaping would get done, no food would make it to market, all agriculture would cease, no fruit would be picked? Is that really the stance you are taking? If you are trying to draft people into the army of “illegal immigrant protectionism”, anyone who buys this nonsense would be rejected as 4-F. The argument is filled with fantasy, fabrication, fallacies and outright fraud.
The net cost vs. the net “gain” by having “shadow entitlements” for people who crash the borders in order to use America as their personal ATM is a discussion that ought to be held in the open air and sunshine.
The children of illegals and many others who crash the borders to sell drugs, weapons and engage in gang behavior has an enormous cost to this society. To suggest that it doesn’t exist or that it “isn’t that bad”, is a bald-faced lie.
We can’t afford the unfunded entitlements for the underclass we have already, some of whom exist there intentionally, some who do not. Adding to that burden by ignoring people crashing our borders is insanity. The lowest 50% of this country do not pay back nearly what they take out of our system. To add to THAT class of persons, the net “takers”, while we are desperately struggling to restore fiscal sanity into our system, is also insane.
If one “unwittingly” hires an illegal, who has hidden his status from his employer (how else would they ever get hired, fabricated or stolen a Social Security number, fabricated or stolen an identity to get a driver’s license), how does the consumer wind up being the one person you blame in this scenario?
Illegals send billions “home” to the “homeland” and we get no benefit of those lost dollars. Their children are sent to schools with false papers, living in disguise from the earliest age and the trauma caused to their self image has not been adequately measured. They live a life that is a lie that they cannot ever come clean out of or repair.
Is it any wonder that “belonging” becomes important to them and the lure of gangs becomes a flame to their mothlike existence forced upon them by their parents?
The “good ones” have a DREAM, but it is based upon a pack of lies told to them by leftists, who need their votes.
There are plenty of villains to go around in this situation, Ruben. No amnesty without honesty. First, we must tell the truth. Then, and only then, can we address the issues with honor. No more phony nonsense, no more fraud, no more fallacious arguments, no more fantasies. To solve a problem, we first have to be willing be honest about it. Come back when you can do that.
Most of these problems are a government issue product. So we send all the Mexican Nationals home for three months and you will find many of those jobs unfulfilled. The apples will be on the ground under the tree and the price of any apple reaching the supermarket will cost so much few will buy. Many of these jobs take both skill and conditioning and you won’t find that on the street.
Yes, there is a problem and there is a solution but it is not politically correct.
!Gracias! “Whit” for your slavish response to Navarrette’s propaganda.
It is evident that Mr. Wallis has not understood the first thing I have written and it is consistent with the spirit he shows. I hope I have made a little sense to some of you. If I did you will understand that everything is not as it appears on the surface and that there are deeper issues at play. Do I think we should close our borders? Yes and yes again. We also need to try the spirits, from whence they are. If they are trustworthy they will have witness to say they are trustworthy. Mr. walls, if you can brush that chip off your shoulder you will feel better.
“how else would they ever get hired”
Maybe because the person hiring wanted to pay as little as possible
Your Sensei what are you saying? That you never compare price and opt for the lower cost? Some, but not all employers seek the lowest cost labor for some very good reasons. They seek competent labor that can produce at a reasonable cost and consistent value. Some jobs are not worth much but most labor, even without rules will be paid better than the very minimum because the provide better work and responsibility. there is a lot more involved that just a warm body. For every job that exist working for the other man has competition for that job but there are jobs that cannot be filled by hire. Many businesses are headed by the reason for the business and they are seldom replaceable.
Willingly and predictably obtuse. Here, let me show you how thinking and truth work:
“Your Sensei what are you saying? That you never compare price and opt for the lower cost?”
Of course I do, but for me to get it at the cost I prefer, I’d have to steal it. And, well, that’s not legal. Now if I were Lou Dobbs, I’d compare prices and then walk out of the store without paying.And when security cuffed me in the parking lot, I’d say, “But, I’m Lou Dobbs! I’m a rich and privileged conservative. I have a daughter who has horses! You have no right to detain me. I’m me, damn it.”
This isn’t complicated.
“Come back when you can do that.” . . . when you’re one of the good ones.
It’s a catch 22 for employers.
If you DARE ask a potential employee for their legit paper, you might just get slapped with a lawsuit for discrimination UNLESS you can prove that you also asked every ‘ANGLO’ for THEIR papers.
Here’s an idea! How about you actually learn English, assimilate into America legally and LOVE AMERICA more than any other country?
Eh. Dreamin’ right?
“If you DARE ask a potential employee for their legit paper, you might just get slapped with a lawsuit for discrimination UNLESS you can prove that you also asked every ‘ANGLO’ for THEIR papers.”
no, you won’t. as an employer, you are required by law to ask if the person you’re hiring can work in the US legally.
Ed, I suspect the guy is referring to the whole Meg Whitman pseudo-scandal: sure, you need to ask for a SSN, but if the government later on sends you a letter saying something doesn’t match up, you are limited (unless you make a hobby out of getting sued) in what you can – much less should – do.
Ok, I see your point.
Ladies and gentleman, yes, give Mr. Navarette a break. I have followed Mr. Navarette since my days as a campaigner for Prop 227 and Prop 203 (in Calforinia and Arizona respectfully; “English for the Children”; no I do not hate immigrants; my mother and father were immigrants and my wife is an immigrant; no I do not hate Hispanics or Hispanic culture; I am a certified Spanish teacher and an AP Spanish reader; I just beleive all students should be given k-12 access to an English medium education because English is a sine qua non for higher education and professinal success. I would not have used the word “hypcritical” but perhaps “ironical” in the case of Lou Dobbs. But we are talking about the same thing. It is the responsiblity of the employer to verify the legality of its workers. If I hire a plumber it is my responsiblity to see that plumber is licensed; however if I subcontract a plumber or roofer and he has several workers it is HIS responsilbity. If something goes wrong with the job it is the boss who guarantees the work not the worker who could quit or run off at any moment. But Navarette is touching upon something that says something about our economic system and our immigration system. We do not have a state controlled state planned economic system but (still) have a large private economy where employers can pay what they want and where employees can earn what they can. The bottom line is that California since at least the 1950′s has relied upon a near endless supply of illegal and quasi-legal workers to be its gardeners, its maids, its nannies, its kitchen workers, its construction workers, its farm laborers and I could go on. As a teacher I come in contact with many immigrant children and I meet their parents and find out what industries they are in. Presently I am tutoring the son of a former student privately. The mother and father were originally working in farm labor even though they were well-educated by most standards. But like a lot of middle class or lower-middle class Latins they did not have access to an English language education. Their experience made a profound experience on me and is one of the reasons I came to oppose phoney bilingual Spanish only educated. Here was a cultivate woman with a private high school education from South America (at least equivalent or more to 2 years of JC) and ehr husband was a university graduate with a technical degree. But without English they were unable to get anything but menial labor. Now almost 20 years later they live in a very nice middle class neighborhood; she has a daycare (almost all her customers are working English-speaking Americans) and he sells insurance (principaly to Spanish speaking people). I have known many many immigrants from many backgrounds but of course am closest to those who are Hispanic and Christian (Catholic or Non-Catholic). Few come with the intention of being illegal or as some say “criminally” illegal. Most come with tourist visas or student visas hoping (somewhat illogically I grant) that they can somehow “normalize” their status. And what almost all of the immigrants find is IT DOESN’T MATTER TO MANY EMPLOYERS -on the lower scale of things-IF THEIR WORKERS ARE LEGAL or ILLEGAL or QUASI-ILLEGAL or CITIZENS or RESIDENTS. So they can always find employment here and there and if there is a round-up or some pressure put upon them they find another similar job. Let me say also that the “Nikki” case is not unusual. Once they are in the system many undocumented immigrants (or illegal aliens -I am not afraid of that legal terminology) fall for the temptation to buy counterfeit driver’s licenses and counterfeit social security cars. I know there used to be a thriving business in Puerto Rican birth certificates (I understand most states will no longer accept Puerto Rican birth certicates and don’t have to because Puerto Rico is not a state and does not fall under the Full Faith and Credit provisions of Article IV). I don’t blame Meg Whitman for employing “Nikki” the certifed legal worker from a “reputable” employment agency. It is just a fact that if you work in let’s say roofing, or pruning grape vines, or in the kitchen a X-chain restaurant, that for these relatively low paying intinerant jobs many immigrants some legal and some quasi legal and some totally illegal work at these jobs because the demand IS ALWAYS THERE. And that is the “hypocrisy” that Ruben Navarette is talking about. On the one hand we want to seal the borders and ‘control’ immigration but on the other hand we want to live aristocratic lives with an abundance of restaurants, gardeners, room cleaners, servants, nannies. etc. We are not unlike the Abolitionist Congressmen and Senators and their wives and families who loved to stay in Alexandria, Virginia, where the service and the food and the hotels were so excellent. And so profitable. Because it was built on slave labor. It was not a coincidence that the first Union officer to be killed in the Civil War was killed at a hotel-a hotel he probably knew well- which was flying the rebel flag. By opposing slavery that Yankee officer was attacking the economic basis of that hotel. Now illegal immigration is not excactly like slavery; we have our automatic “manusmission” via the 14th ammendment. About half my immigrant students are citizens at least by birth. We have “manumission” by marriage with US citizens. But for those who cannot get legalized many are condemned to a long journey of the cross one that sometimes ends with deportation and separation from one’s children (often US citizens). But I note when this has happened there are always godparents, neighbors and relatives to take custody of the children. Still I think the pressure on many immigrant families is overwhelming and is resulting in the break up of the tradionally strong Hispanic family by an insidious ghettoization. I don’t know what the answers are. But we do have a crazy quilt systme. Ruben is right about that. We insist by law that all immigrant kids attend school k-12 and then -in some states we refuse to allow these same graduates to attend our state colleges or get financial aid. We insist all males sign up for Selective Service but then refuse to allow them to enlist in our Armed Forces (though many have slipped through the cracks in the past posing as Puerto Ricans with phoney SSN’s and birth certificates -and I am sure many young people who have lived here have no idea that they are not truly US citizens). Some of our soldiers and Marines killed in Iraq and Afghanistan were found to be illegal (AFTER they were killed in action and AFTER they were sworn in -on the basis of counterfeit documents -as US citizens.) The bottom line is Congress has the power to concede or deny citizenship. They control the laws of naturalization. It is up to them to reform the system and humanize it or be draconian and expell all immigrants the way the Spanish expelled the Moors and Jews in 1492. If we study history we will observe that the Spanish expuslsion of the “illegal aliens” (non-Catholics ) of their time did irretevable damage to the Spanish economy. I believe just as American of the ante bellum era was addicted to slavery for cotton production, sugar production and for domestic and hotel work so we are addicted to illegal immigrant workers whether we know it or not. We want a size six border and immigration quota with Latin America and the world but we have a size 14 appetite for the labor of immigants. We must come to some reasonable accomodation of demands for labor and services and our desire to control immigration in some orderly fashion. You will not I am not an open border advocate. I do not sympathize with La Raza separatism and “nationalism”. Neither does Ruben. But Ruben is trying to seek the truth. Only when we truly understand the way we live and our demand for immigrant labor, goods and services can we come to some reasonable accomodation. Either we need to live with some immigration (and encourage assiilation and Americanization) or we need to live with less or invent robots to do the work we won’t do as Americans.
Your lengthy message is appreciated. Too bad that, as a teacher, you have trouble with spelling, but perhaps you didn’t proofread before posting. Be that as it may, I have read many of Navarette’s columns and I find him to be a biased individual with one sided arguments, spouting the La Raza talking points. I fail to understand why the latter is even allowed to exist. Seems to me that it is an adversary organization engaged in promoting illegal aliens’ ‘rights’ such as convincing them to vote in our elections. Here in CA we have had plenty of that, but political correctness and fear of law suits prevented the authorities to pursue the matter. There isn’t another country in the world where a person can go to the voting booth without having to present an ID. If we allow La Raza and other organizations who solely exist to promote class warfare and provide lucrative jobs for lawyers, then for balance, we should bring back HUAC, House Unamerican Activities Committee.
Sorry for some of the typos; this was not a professional article just something I dashed off. Ruben has his viewpoint. You must be kidding if you think Ruben represents the Far Left of La Raza etc. He may be more liberal than you or I but he is not an extreme liberal. He was very fair with the 227 campaign (English for the CHildren). That’s just a fact.
Concern troll!
“reasonable accomodation”?!?
Navarrette?!?
You clown!
“Concern troll” anyone?
I’ll skip the poor grammar/spelling which the above poster notices.
More important are the apologias to the naked bigotry of the author.
Rubbish.
“Now illegal immigration is not excactly like slavery; we have our automatic “manusmission” via the 14th ammendment.”
No, it’s not, but a lot of the reasons cited for not securing the border and deporting the illegal aliens already here are EXACTLY the same reasons given for refusing to abolish chattel slavery.
As it turns out, people had invented mechanized methods of harvesting and processing cotton, tobacco, sugar cane and rice, but no-one bought and utilized these systems until the “cheap” labor of slaves was prohibited to them.
Richard Munro Very good argument. My reply to #13, Jay, is on the same line of principles. I was looking is a little different area but see no reason that they are not compatible and address the same problem. I can also read and speak Spanish although not as fluently as I would like. Many of these poster do not understand whereof the affirm. Sounds pretty good on paper but can’t be put into practice
Then, KEEP TRYING; you USEFUL IDIOT! I’m sure (/s) THAT is “troll” en Espanol.
I’m skipping reading the comments, so my apologies if this is one of them already. However, speaking from the employer side (I worked in a small company and talked with the HR person quite a bit), you do what you can to stay legal, and so far as you know you are- but that’s just it, so far as you know. You file an I9 with a ssn, and if it goes through, they are fine. If it doesn’t go through, you have to ask them for a correct ssn, and god help you if you let them go for suspicion of being illegal. You can’t ask outright, and you can’t let them go for fear of lawsuit, so, you get another ssn. Basically, it’s against to the law to hire and illegal immigrant, and against the law to actually point blank ask about their status and also more trouble than it’s worth to straight up fire them when the ssn comes back as a fail.
Yeah, I know there are contractors finding help from the groups hanging out at home depot, etc, and paying cash under the table. But there are also a lot of legit small businesses trying to obey the letter and the spirit of the law, and in a bind both ways. If you live in an area with a lot of illegals, chances are you’re going to hire one no matter how diligent you are.
Yep, Christopher, if your business you are already suspect. We also have professionals seeking that kind of a situation as their own ticket to unearned riches. The problem is more government that illegal hire. Do you still beat your wife when you get drunk? Never mind if you never drank.
Dear “Whit”,
You are CONFIRIMING all the assumptions many of us here have about Lefty idiots with oyur posts:
STOP WHILE YOU’RE “ahead”!
Don’t adults feel silly saying things like “the country is being invaded by landscapers, cooks, and housekeepers”?
Can we just give up on this? The country has 20,000 miles of border and coastline, we have millions of visitors arriving a year, no amount of either “cracking down” or “reforming” is going to make a damn bit of difference, so why don’t we just save a couple of dozen billion dollars by just admitting to ourselves that, yes, a substantial fractions of our busboys and kitchen help are going to be foreign born?
that’s a not a good reason to stop enforcing the law – finding and deporting illegal aliens.
also, the technology to secure the border already exists. the manpower to secure the border is already within the government’s inventory. what’s lacking is the willpower to do so.
the main reason why the number of illegal aliens in the US have increased is due to a combination of lack of border security, willingness of employers to hire illegal aliens, and the willingness of our own government to support illegal aliens with food stamps, health care, etc. take these factors out and you will have less illegal aliens, raise the number of raids for illegal aliens and you will further decrease their numbers.
what is not acceptable here is, as I’ve been saying, is that entering the US without permission or overstaying in the US is a crime, and you should never reward a crime or there would be many more that would commit the same crime – hence you have millions of illegal aliens committing the same crime!
I live in Illinois, where illegal aliens can draw welfare, medicaid, participate in the WIC program, where their kids use our school system without them paying any taxes. our tax system become me oppressive to its own citizens if we continue to spend money on those who entered illegally and have not paid any taxes into the system that they have been abusing.
at the same time, Mexico itself is tough on illegal aliens entering their country! the country is broke, and it simply needs to stop.
This stupid post can be shortened to, “Americans, SURRENDER!”
Ed this is not a Mexican problem or even a illegal alien problem. It is a foreign concept problem that we have imported from our enemy, Socialism, that preaches an unsustainable life style and non-existent rights they are supposed to bestow on us. They displace our Declaration of Independence which gave us the solution in the very beginning. We had lots of immigration but it was legal and it worked.
“Whit”,
With your provious posts you prove to us that you are noting less than a troll.
BE GONE!
Sorry you can’t understand my speech, Mr. Wallis. I don’t know about trolls. What are they supposed to do. Make you think? I doubt it.
In other words, Malvolio says, “SURRENDER, AMERICANS!”
NO WAY, buster.
Translation of Malvolio’s post: “Americans, SURRENDER!”
Thanks, but NO THANKS, buddy.
Ruben you argument is very thin. I will make a definitive statement. NO ILLEGAL ALIEN HAS ANY RIGHT TO BE HERE FOR ANY REASON!!! Using your logic Obama is responsible for all crime because and the Head of State he is responsible for the Country. I will say one more thing, Anchor Babies are the anchor that will drag us all down if it doesn’t cease. You may see that last statement as offensive, so what, some of your statements are offensive to me.
Lou Dobbs rebutted the accusations by “The Nation’s” Isabel MacDonald on Foxnews (Bill O’Reilly show, October 7, 2010). MacDonald admitted on tape that she had NO EVIDENCE for these accusations (play video clip):
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/transcript/dobbs-victim-left-wing-hit-job-illegal-alien-allegations
Ruben,
Ríndase ya. Usted es una una broma burro con dos piernas quebradas. La gente no quiere el swill que usted vende. El problema con extranjeros ilegales alquilados desaparecerá una vez que ellos son puestos sobre un autobús y transportados a casa. Aquí está algo más para usted para reflexionar: ¿es posible que los extranjeros ilegales ROBEN IDENTIDADES y sean capaces de reclamar el estado legal? Esto no es no oído de, verdad? sí. Derecho. Rendir. Usted es una reserva risueña.
I am disappointed to read really shallow, legalistic stuff in PJM, like “Dobbs knew, OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN”. Doubtless Dobbs will agree with that, but it’s poor gas with which to inflate your balloon, Ruben. Next time, just use hot air….but not in PJM.
If I were Lou Dobbs and made a living off of criticizing employers of illegal aliens, I would have required that all my contractors use e-verify, a volutary government program that verify’s an applicant’s legal status within a minute. I have seen some contractors advertise that they screen all of their applicants with e-verify. Arizona requires most or all large employers to use this service. Dobbs would have had to pay more money but it would be a small price for a rich man to pay to protect his reputation. Ruben is right, employers are responsible but I believe that he underestimates the ability of Americans to do rough jobs. In this economy, many legal residents will do this kind of work for an extra $5-10 per hour and the profit margins of agribusinesses and contractors can handle the extra cost within their profit margins. If labor is still unavailable, employers can invest in automation. There are even robotic lawn mowers available. Who cuts my grass, my sons do of course. But it seems that lots of PJM fans have low birth rates, or they can’t seem to get their kids to do any work. But that’s a subject for another article. Let’s just say that if we all had more kids, there wouldn’t be as great a need for illegal workers.
Ruben, shouldn’t you be busy out in the streets with Mi Familia Vota,
collecting-or-fabricating (“saved or created!”) Illegal Alien voter applications?
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/10/25/mi-familia-vota-seiu-and-the-illegal-alien-swing-vote/
Ruben, No. Just, no. We are tired of your shtick. It has gotten boring. You don’t care about America or Americans. Your sole concern is your co-ethnic illegal aliens. Of course, they’re what butter your bread but at least you could be honest. Without endless illegals breaking the law, ‘advocates’ and pundits expressing these points of view would be, let us say, ‘marginalized’.
Marginalized is ‘code’ for unemployed or under employed. Imagine my sorrow. Leave us alone. If you’re not going to help get the illegals back into Mexico, Guatemala, etc, please get the hell out of our way and let us do it.
Go do something worthwhile. Turn that hell hole south of the border (no not Guatemala, south of the American border) into something worth living in. Then you can lecture them about how they should let others break their laws with impunity.
Go away. There I said it. You bore us and you are disloyal to America. We are as tired of you as you are of us. Not tired of our money clearly because you still are shilling for people who have no right to anything north of the border except for the O2 they’ll breathe getting home.
I’ll second that motion!
In mathematics whan you are minimizing a function you must minimise every part of it. Likewise, to minimise the illegal alien problem you have to minimise every part of the problem. Start with this and work toward a total solution. It’s valid to attack the problem one issue at a time.
From: http://www.fairus.org
“Illegal Immigration a $113 Billion a Year Drain on U.S. Taxpayers” (Study dated July 2010)
FAIR Releases First-of-its-Kind Comprehensive Study of Federal, State and Local Costs of Illegal Immigration
Why is this mouthpiece for la raza [Navarrette] even posted on pajamas media to begin with?
My god, PJM actually dragged the naive court jester back into the spotlight? It is sadistic to set up such a fool, or perhaps Navarrette is a masochist.
On que, Navarrette the race-baiting latino supremicist, all the while grasping at straws, returns to his nebulous, intangible, completely and utterly bogus arguements.
If Mr. Navarrette had his fingers on the pulse of news, he would know that the article on Dobbs (which has been around for weeks, by the way) was a hack hit job, full of fictitious accounts – quite slanderous, really. Dobbs established a contract with his landscape company, ensuring that no illegal alien laborer will work on his property – it is not his obligation to spend every second at their side checking their IDs.
My god – buy a green pepper or head of lettuce in a grocery store, and the odds are good that “you used illeghal alien labor.”
I thought PJM had learned better, and allowed Mr. Navarrette to return to his cave with his tail between his legs…alas.