Losers All Around in Debt Limit Debate
For the GOP, their commitment is to cut not just the rate of growth in government, but to roll back some of the great “achievements of the left,” such as ObamaCare. Some in the GOP and some pundits on the right seem to think that control of the House is enough to dictate the results of divided government, and hence, the House Republicans are wimping out by not pushing for more cuts, sooner. This view is about as realistic as Krugman’s call for more spending to create the jobs the previous spending did not. Exactly how does the GOP force its way to victory when Democrats control the Senate and Obama is the president?
As Krauthammer argues, Obama won in 2008 and set out to remake America. He got pretty far with his work, with ObamaCare the paramount achievement. Of course, ObamaCare is considered a deficit reduction bill for the next ten years by the CBO, so no one need worry about the $200 billion a year in new spending for what will turn out to be largely a middle class entitlement, since it is “paid for.” If enough companies drop health insurance coverage, pushing lots of people into the exchanges — people the CBO assumed would remain insured by their companies — the cost of the bill will skyrocket.
The Class Act, the new long-term care entitlement program in ObamaCare, was scored as a $72 billion deficit reduction program in the first ten years, since premiums were collected for years before any payouts. This Ponzi scheme was so obvious a long term loser for the government that even some Democrats have come around and support killing it. The $14 plus trillion in current debt (internal and external), plus the near ten trillion to come over the next ten years — including the “savings” (deficit reduction) from ObamaCare — are just the start. If interest rates rise, and if economic growth remains well below forecast (near 4%), the total debt numbers will rise more rapidly.
It is in this environment that Harry Reid proposes $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction over ten years with more than half of it artificial, coming not from spending as much as in prior years for wars that are already being wound down. And yet even this extremely modest back loaded effort at debt reduction is drawing fire from the left.
So how will this get resolved by Tuesday, if it does? The president is adamant that there can not be another vote on the debt ceiling before the 2012 election. The fact that votes to raise the debt ceiling have occurred on average every 8 months over the last 50 years is simply inconvenient history for Obama. The Democrats now say they do not want another debt ceiling vote that would spoil Christmas for shoppers in late 2011, perhaps the lamest attempt at argument in a month of weak parries. In reality, the president’s approval numbers have tanked to new lows (-12 in both Gallup and Rasmussen today), with 42% average approval for these two tracking polls.
Obama and his team do not want to give him another chance to fail on the job, and have the debt issue front and center before the election. His mishandling of the debt ceiling/ debt talks has revealed a president who seems severely lacking in leadership and negotiating skills. He has appeared alternately unengaged, or angry, and has not gained the trust of members of either party. Having coasted for so long, he seems unable to deal with a situation where everything is not going his way. The deal that Reid and McConnell offered to Obama last Sunday, which he rejected, may still be the only thing than can pass both houses, though largely with Democratic votes in the House.
In essence, we seem headed for a package that will be advertised as over $2 trillion in deficit reduction over ten years, but will, in fact, be far less. The spending cuts will be backloaded and gimmicky, particularly if it is Reid’s bill that becomes the model. There may be two tranches of debt ceiling increase, but the second piece will be fairly certain to occur, and not involve the haggling that accompanied this negotiation. There will be no new revenues. There will be no grand bargain. And every incumbent, from the president to members of the House and Senate, will have an uphill battle explaining what was accomplished.
As Krauthammer argues, Round 3, the rubber match between the parties, will be in November, 2012. The big issue then will almost certainly be the state of the economy — not the deficit number. The unemployment rate, and underemployment rate, and the rate of GDP growth will matter more, I think, than the deficit number. If all that spending did not produce jobs or economic growth, but only much bigger debts, then the political party which has argued for bigger government will likely lose.
‘The President continues to tell the American people to email, call, and tweet GOP members of Congress on behalf of a “balanced approach”’
I have a different approach. I tell them that if they vote for increased government spending or any borrowing whatsoever, I’ll be looking for another candidate/party to vote for come 2012.
And, needless to say I discard anything Obambi tries to tell me to do, without even wasting my time considering it.
Yes, and you can send emails also to Democrats telling the same. We the people are not stupid, and really we find their behavior dishonest and destructive. I did it. Tell them we are watching this cheap politic they are playing. We are going to remember well this despicable show and how hurtful to America Shame on them…they are doing what ever they can to gain more power.
Actually Rich, you look stupid.
The obma types have owned this country since the POS fdr.
That is over 60 years punk.
Yeah In the 90′s-dubya… we had a chance. We failed. Now we have a chance again. If we fail it will be because of you.
Expect to pay the price.
It’s all going according to plan; You are like turds in a cistern.
How are the “Shovel ready projects”, “Spreading the wealth”, “Summer of recovery” and “STIMULUS package” going for you, numb-nuts?
Honestly, Fantom… You should be embarrassed that you voted in this POS idiot, but, I guess like goes along with like.
way to go Delia. and you are so rifgt,
Obama is the biggest loser. It’s the grand orchestration.
Americans have a method for extinguishing reprobates.
Democrats do not put your hands on the wealth of the country and do not try to seize private wealth!!! Learn that this do not belong to you. Is not your property!!! This administration is committed to redistribute the American wealth around the world. Leftists are generous with other people’s money but dead wrong!!! the American money belongs to private people, not to bureaucrats and politicians. You must not count to dispose that as belonging to you. IDIOTS!!! You can donate your money or make fire with it, but HANDS OFF of the American wealthiness! CUT your suicidal spending STOP borrowing and increasing this huge debt, and BALANCE the budget with the resources you have without increasing taxes to anybody. As Sen. DeMint is specific and focused on what change, exactly, he wants: passage — not just a vote — of a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution. Without it, he says, no consideration should be given to raising the nation’s borrowing limit. Even, he says, if the country runs out of money for paying all its bills after Aug. 2. Obama crisis and his kabuki theater must be stopped now!!!
They want more revenue?
Get rid of the data point performance evaluation for people and government offices. Go back to the original meaning of “regulate” (make work smoother and encourage) commerce and dump the present meaning of “discourage and block”. That means getting rid of about 3/4 of the regulations.
Presto. More money for everyone, no need to raise taxes, end of the present depression.
First, I’m astonished at the mendacious and malicious political agenda of Obama and the Democrats.
Obama has only one goal; his power over others and his re-election. He’s not interested in America or Americans. His agenda is to BUY his re-election, by expanding the Dependent Class (dependent on govt funding). This class is made up of the unionized public service (Obama’s Stimulus was geared to preserving their jobs and wasn’t meant for ‘shovel-ready’ private enterprise)..and the exploding ratio of people who pay no taxes but live off social security, unemployment and other benefits. I’d include the illegals in this set and Obama’s agenda (DREAM) is to bring them into his following.
To do this, Obama needs to increase the deficit to expand the entitlement programs. And, he wants more money; I’m betting that he wants to give all his following some special benefit during his campaign this fall/next year.
Obama would, in my view, actually like a default; remember, Obama influences people by emotional manipulation ..Remember his Hope and Change, his oceans ceasing to rise, his Pass the Stimulus or the Economy Will Tank; his Pass ObamaCare or doctors will cut off your limbs for money. And note how he divides people into ethnic groups (Hispanics – fight your enemies!); into race; into political partisans. Obama enjoys sitting back and watching groups fight each other..
Obama would like a default so that he can blame his newest enemy: the Tea Party. Obama considers them a threat to his re-election..and his re-election is all that matters.
But – think about the rhetoric against the Tea Party – that they are hardline radicals. WHAT? What is radical about wanting limited government, reduced taxation..and a…think about it..a balanced budget.
But – to say those two words: BAlANCED BUDGET..to a Democrat, and they fall over as if zapped by an evil curse.
These axioms of the Tea Party: its focus on fiscal responsibility, not spending more than you take in, reducing taxation to enable INVESTMENT within and by the private sector…and balancing your budget. These are simple, basic ordinary commonsense!!!! What’s radical?
What I find evil – and I use the word with intent – is the bland careless agenda of ‘living-in-the-red’; of constantly living, not on what you earn but on what you can borrow. Oh – and you have no intention of paying it off. heck no, your children and grandchildren can do that. Now – is that responsible? Is that mature? Is that right..to do that to the future generation?
This Obama-Democrat Gang have one focus: Power. They use entitlements and ‘freebies’ to ensnare a passive, increasingly dependent following. They deliberately destroy the middle class, the small businessman (who are in that 200,000 income range, a range that Obama redefines as ‘a millionaire). They are sucking up all the wealth/profit of these small businesses and thus preventing INVESTMENT and preventing more hiring, preventing expansion of these businesses. Why?
They want the money..to give to CONSUMERS. But an economy that CONSUMES all its wealth and doesn’t INVEST it…is finished.
That’s Obama. The Tea Party, on the other hand, is based on commonsense, realism, and responsibility.
I’m not surprised AT ALL, ETAB. These people are bloodless, Godless and EVIL to the core. Have you seen “The grinding down of America” documentary? It’s an EXCELLENT movie (google it, I would provide a link but links force my posts into moderation).
That movie should be shown to every youngster in every school room.
Great post btw.
["The Tea Party, on the other hand, is based on commonsense, realism, and responsibility."] Whats your resources of fact on this one? More report and distort personal opinions? You’re beginning to present as a lawyer!
I can remember in recent times when the nation was engaged in controversay over corporations paying little and NO taxes into the coffers of government. Remember those conversations across all party lines?
And to be honest, I can’t recall the last time I seen a plaque on a bridge that said “built by Intel” (December 2008, 72,868 (12.1%) were categorized as structurally deficient and 89,024 (14.8%) were categorized as functionally obsolete) or, a dam (the number of high hazard potential dams is also increasing at an alarming rate, now totaling 15,237. The number of dams determined to be unsafe or deficient has risen from 3,500 in 2005 to 4,095 in 2007.3 Of that number, high hazard potential dams that are also classified as deficient has risen from 1,367 in 2005 to 1,819 in 2007.) with signage that says “built by Hughes electronics” or, any other ‘critical’ infrastructures that are essential for the functioning of a society and economy.
But, why are you seeing ANY signs? Do you think the people don’t know how bridges and roads get built?
Obama’s stimulus fraud spent about $9 million on signs. Signs telling us that our congressvarmint is doing wonders with our money. Many of the signs cost $3,000 or more. For a freaking sign.
You facetiously question why Intel is not named on any signs, but most of us are questioning why there are any signs at all. Maybe you should be rethinking some (all) of your arguments. (By the way, bet that Intel has paid for some bridges. A fairer question to pose would be “Why ISN’T Intel or Boeing or Walmart ever mentioned on a sign?” You can slowly work your way up to “Why are we wasting money on signs?”)
henry…. you butted into a conversation and comments for which you have no knowledge of between the genius ETAB and myself.
Yeah, he butted in…
But he also deflated your hot air balloon.
I don’t see the point of your comments.
You are correct, much of the hard infrastructure of common properties such as bridges, dams, roads, is decaying. That is natural – as I’m sure you know. These are material realities not Magical Bridges, Dams, Roads and thus, as your car, house, shoes, lamp bulbs…all have a finite material lifespan.
A responsible economy puts millions and billions into a Reserve Fund for both maintenance of these materials and, eventually, complete rebuilding. But, instead, this socialist government, with its taxes, takes all the reserves, all the investment capital away from the private sector…and gobbles it all up in CONSUMPTION. Current Consumption. So, the wealth produced by businesses now, is gobbled up so that it can’t be used for current investment or for major infrastructural reinvestment. It goes to Obama’s ..heh.. Stimulus..which was given to the unionized public service to keep them employed. It goes to expand his federal bureaucracy (100,000 new federal jobs), …but not for infrastructure.
So- what’s your point? The Tea Party are ordinary Americans arguing for commonsense: low taxes to enable the private sector to produce wealth to reinvest in the economy (the Tea Party doesn’t believe in keeping money in old socks)…limited govt (govt bureaucrats CONSUME wealth; they don’t produce it)..and, heck, a balanced budget so that we live within our means and don’t expect others to pay for our consumption greed.
Do you ever consider bouncing any of your comment off on somebody before3 posting them…. just a suggestion so you don’t end up looking so foolish!
["But, instead, this socialist government, with its taxes, takes all the reserves, all the investment capital away from the private sector…and gobbles it all up in CONSUMPTION. Current Consumption. So, the wealth produced by businesses now, is gobbled up so that it can’t be used for current investment or for major infrastructural reinvestment."]
Have you ever gotten yourself out of all your philosopher Gods literary nonsense long enough to look at real fact based information, say like historical tax rate charts? I know your philosophical Gods conveniently haven’t. Maybe check out the Individual income rate from 1947 through 1986. Look at the crash of 87 separately. Then look at the taxes from 1988 through 2011. Then…take a look at historical corporate top tax rates for the same time periods. Be sure to check out the progressive rates on firt $25K and later first $50K and upward.
Please do have fun and come back and explain how the nation, during the beginning of it rise through its highest pinnacle seemed to have a tad bit higher tax rates and some how managed to build the worlds greatest infrastructure thrugh the first half of its climb.
Rather amazing how a nation with higher tax rates for individuals and corporations could not only build a strong legitimate ecomomy of world dominance with low unemployment but also, build the worlds greatest infrastuctures about half way through the climb. (note the redundancy)
Next, I would invite you to track legislation through this same period of time, modifying the tax codes for allowable adjustments of the gross income taxable rates. Hmmmm!
Now, I know you’l have a ton of philosophical retorts but I’m more interested in getting empirical analysis from you on this one.
No, TTThomas – it’s your post; you provide the data – otherwise, you are pontificating empty rhetoric.
Oh, and while you are gathering your ‘facts about taxation’ , please remember to include the FACT that the ratio of tax-payers to non-tax-payers has increased over the years, so that about 47% of the US population pay no federal tax. The result is, of course, that these people receive benefits without paying for them…they are paid by others. And, even when they don’t pay any taxes, they even get a govt check for extra!! Quite the easy life. About 10% of the population paid 73% of the federal income tax revenues. Hmm.
And the federal income tax is the gov’ts largest revenue source..so, 10% of the population are paying – and 47% of the population don’t pay a nickel. Hmm.
Oh – and you still haven’t examined the economic infrastructure, with your fetish on ‘taxes’ and your view that wealth comes from a Magic Cauldron. No, it doesn’t. Wealth comes from INVESTMENT into PRODUCTION. Not from CONSUMPTION.
You subscribe to the mechanical view of life, where X–>Y. Nope, the economy is, as you don’t understand, a CAS, complex adaptive system. That means that it’s not mechanical and two-step, but triadic. There are three components. Not TAXES–>Consumption (again, this ignores how to get that Magic Cauldron filled up with money-to-tax).
The triad is: Investment–>Production–>Consumption. The key factor is that you must INVEST in order to produce wealth. And you can’t consume all your wealth produced; you must RE-INVEST it. Or..you won’t be able to produce any wealth! You don’t understand this triad; you ignore the role of investment. Ah well.
["So, the wealth produced by businesses now, is gobbled up so that it can’t be used for current investment or for major infrastructural reinvestment."]
You keep back peddling and squirming around on the issues of national infrastructure and corporate infrastructure. One has nothing directly, to do with the other….especially tax rates. Corporate infrastructure capital has historically, always been taken by the labor unions and commerce who follows the standards established by labor unions. Try to stay focused on national infrastructure and how you say corporate and commerce tax rates are why our national infrastructures are decaying with no regards to having been maintained and modernized over the years. Tax revenue on the other hand has everything to do with it! You keep repeating over and over and over and over that we don’t need government intrusion for anything other than the minimums of constitutional mandate. Get out the way government and the private sector will care for the nations needs..right? Isn’t that your repeated mantra? Well, it ain’t going to happen! Now what? Slash government spending to modernize the nations critical infrastructures. Every plan but one ‘offer’ (Not offered by TeaParty-GOP) runs deficits and debt increases for the outlying years. Rest assurd the Tea party will NOT be openly honest about any of their specific intentions…if they even have any other than political posturing for 2012. Now what?
I could care less about your opinions on corporate infrastructure decay! Simply a case of BAD management and even worse labor negotiations. Their problem! Not the governments problem….at least it shouldn’t be according to the Tea Party nuts. So, now I join you nuts! Let all the corporations fall as it will hurt me not. I want to see you a slurping some good ole possum stew down at the soup line!
Folks in ’28 had no idea either, that they would be one day soon!
Bring it on Tea party! Bring it all on! I think not! In less than 4 months they became common political hacks od minority special intersts!
Run, run away TTThomas. You never answer criticisms or questions; you just run off on yet more red herrings.
You haven’t provided the data to substantiate your post about taxes…eg..historical tax rates. Where’s the data? And of course, you haven’t dealt with my facts about the ratio of taxpayers to non-taxpayers and the burgeoning welfare state society of the US – with FDR’s socialism, and LBJ’s socialism…all of which required more and more and more federal revenues. Are you going to deal with these costs, TTT, or just pontificate?
Now, you are into a red herring of ‘corporations’. Who is talking about corporate infrastructure? I’m not. Why are you bringing up this new topic? And your comment that corporate capital was taken by labor unions and commerce (the latter – commerce – what does that mean)..but the labor union demands are what forced major manufacturers to move outside of the US. But – what’s your point? Oh, do you approve that the welfare state demands and the union demands forced corporations outside the US, losing millions of jobs, is a productive act? Or, are you in favor of this? Hmmm?
What corporate infrastructure decay? Who is talking about that?
I was talking about federal income taxes. And the basic wealth production of any economy is private business. These are, as I’ve said repeatedly, the small and medium businesses that make up the majority of an economy. They are taxed, not merely via capital and commerical (which is passed on to the consumer thereby making the products more expensive), but, most file as individuals..and the federal govt’s taking their profits prevents INVESTMENT.
It is interesting, TTT, that you totally, utterly, absolutely ignore the role of investment in an economy. Unbelievable. Unreal.
That’s why you, living in Puff the Magic Dragon world, obviously subscribe to the Magic Cauldron view of wealth; it comes out of a bubbling pot. No need for practical investment..heh..not in TTT’s world. Ah well.
Talk about adult childish behavior! You’re the genius with all the superior research experience. Don’t think for a moment that I’m going to pander to your silliness and demands. I do my homework…now do yours! Otherwise, my comments stand. What you fail to understand in all your superior intellectual brilliance is, that by a huge ratio on sites like this, most of the traffic is on the sidelines observing and investigating the facts from comments made by a miserable few commenter’s. I refer to just enough empirical information readily available for one to easily find by keyword research and all you do is provide literary reference of philosophers and personal opinions. You’re not nearly as smart as you think you are counselor! I play to the sidelines and you play to the few commenting from the choir. If you know how, track the traffic and demographics you might learn something….not that you would know what to do with it. The few influence the masses with techniques and strategies that are not unique to any one entity. Not all the masses that traffic such highly rated sites as this one, are rabid activists and some are professionals monitoring and mining for a wide range of data and general mentalities of a party or movement.
So please do keep on keeping on with your attitude and presentation style. It’s most useful within a large segment of the GOP and other opposition entities.
I am going to go ahead and bookmark this page, and forever use you as an example of why liberals are dangerous to free society. We live in the Google Age. With information and ideas at your fingertips, you have no excuse for ignorance.
ETAB,
This is a must read so please check this article out.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Sarah-Palin-is-the-Ultimat-by-James-Murtagh-110731-486.html
cluebat: Neither party has offered a budget that cuts anything. Proposals from both parties INCREASE spending in almost every area of government over the next ten years. The argument is not about cutting anything. The argument is over how much they’re goin to spend *above and beyond this year’s budget!* Example: They have .60 cents and they plan to spend $1.00. The argument is whether they’ll borrow .40 cents or .39 cents to cover the bills they run up.
See Senator Coburn’s speech on the floor from today. He openly admits it…and holds everyone’s feet to the fire over it, including his own.
You are 100% correct. There are no “cuts” being proposed. Spending would actually increase with Boehner or Reid’s plan.
When these Washington thieves and liars talk about cutting spending, they mean cutting the SCHEDULED RATE OF INCREASE. Almost all spending bills are budgeted for annual increases, and the % of annual increase varies.
If “Program X” is currently wasting $200 billion a year, it also may be scheduled to get a 4% increase each year. By reducing the increase to 1.5%, for example, the Washington liars put that down as a $5 billion dollar cut X TEN YEARS. But wait, there’s more….
“Program X” was scheduled to increase every year, so an increase of say, 4%, would have meant $208 billion next year, but that 4% IS COMPOUNDED, so add another $3.2 million the year after that, then COMPOUND every year for 10 years. Then deduct about half of the total increase that would have occurred over 10 years– that is the “cuts” Reid and Boehner are proposing. The spending is actually going UP, not down.
So, when you hear about trillion this, trillion that in spending cuts, you better look at the fine print, because this has always been how Washington defines “spending cuts”. It is done this way to deceive you. Reid was trying to count money not spent in Afghanistan– long after Obama has indicated we would be out of there.
if a budget is not agreed upon then necessary things (debt, interest, SS, military) will get paid first. this could actually turn into a very good thing. fat is usually what a goes first in lean times. more borrowing now could doom our economy into the same type thing happens when individuals overspend and then try to borrow on one card to pay another, credit downgrade and eventual failure. otoh, trying to cut excessive spending is what anyone would do in this instance. anyone that is, who is interested in trying to improve the situation.
prez spendsalot is desperately looking for some $$ to give to his cronies, just like last time. rich is dead on here. buying votes with our $$ is the only game he has. i look for deliberate bad things from him until he is evicted from office. he knows his time is short. we need to be ready to counter ANYTHING he does, so, be ready and kypd.
Since January of 2009 when the president took office, the average price of gasoline has risen from $1.83 to nearly $4.00; oil from around $43.00 a barrel to over$100.00; the number of unemployed from over 11 million to almost 15 million (while he has added 60,000 new federal employees); black unemployment has increased more than 25%; the budget deficit has risen from just $438 billion in Bush’s last year to $1.5 Trillion currently; and the national debt of $10.6 Trillion, which was accumulated over 230 years, has increased in just two and a half years of Obamanomics to well over $14 Trillion; there are many more such statistics which would fill an entire volume. So, you’ve gotten your Affirmative Action president, America…happy?
I see it a bit differently than the author. The House has done a reasonably good job this year, passed a budget, as well as two bills designed to deal with raising the debt ceiling. The Senate has struggled to get anything accomplished, although they appear to be working hard and communicating relatively well. There just is not enough time to list all the mistakes the Prez has made, and is there anyone left who believes a word he says?
The best thing the House and Senate can do is to continue to try and work together and keep the Prez working the social media angle or playing more golf. I can’t imagine how Barry and Timmy are going to dial up the rhetoric the next couple of days but it isn’t going to be pretty.
Reid Postpones Cloture Vote: TEA Party can now run out the clock! With the cloture vote on the proceed motion now scheduled for 1 PM, the cloture vote on ending debate can be held no earlier than 7 PM Monday (more likely 7:30 or later, to account for conducting the proceed vote itself, as well as a quorum call). That means that the actual vote on final passage (assuming that 60 votes for cloture have been attained on both motions) will occur somewhere around 2 AM Wednesday. Then, the House would have to vote on the Reid bill, and it has already demonstrated that it cannot pass under Suspension of the Rules, so the regular procedure must be followed. Of course, the deadline will have already passed before the House even gets the bill. Rand Paul can now single-handedly run out the clock.
The only loosers are the Tea Party – and that is because they trusted Republicans.
What you have had all along are two groups negotiating for a deal, because both considered a Deal to be success.
One Group (the democrats) don’t beleive there is a problem with the debt at at all. There is a debt, there has always been a debt there will always be a debt and the sun still rises in the east. So what’s your problem.
The other group feels they are compelled to do something about the debt, but they won’t get serious because; There is a debt, there has always been a debt there will always be a debt and the sun still rises in the east. But since those people who voted them into office are pushing for something to be done about the debt, they have to make a show of it anyway.
When they did the Continuing Resolution they showed their true colors. In the election of 2010 they promised $100 Billion in cuts. I defy anyone to find the words “Pro Rated” in any campaign material from September or October of 2010. You won’t find it anywhere. But when the rubber met the road, suddenly the $100 billion became pro rated down to $60 billion, which was then reduced by “Making a Deal” to $38 billion, which when the Smoke and Mirrors were removed became $350 million.
Had they been serious about cutting $100 billion (as in they really wanted to) they would have propose $340 billion in cuts (identified by both heritage foundation and Dick Morris) to negotiate with the senate. There could have been compromise and viola, most likely a bill with $100 billion in cuts.
But alas, they were just going through the motions, the didn’t really WANT to make that $100 billion in cuts they promised, but if they didn’t people wouldn’t vot for them again. So they played us for suckers.
And they’ve done it again. They allowed Obamacare defunding (a campaign promise by the way) to remain off of the table in this debate (which they could have given in on as a ‘compromise’ at some point) and have allowed the Senate Dems to once again set them up with Smoke and Mirrors cuts rather than to operate in the real world.
Dear Republicans,
Don’t be surprised when you discover that the Tea Party actually Meant What They Said, even if you didn’t.
You may have learned the lesson of 1995, but the lesson that you should have learned was ‘Read My Lips.’
jd
If you don’t give us what we want, we are going to DEFAULT and BLOW UP the US economy and global economy. We are going to DEFAULT in 2 days and plunge the US economy and global economy into a GREAT DEPRESSION, if you don’t give in to our demands.
1)We WILL NOT raise the debt ceiling one red cent!
2)We DEMAND IMMEDIATE CUTS of $1.6 Trillion!
3)We DEMAND a BALANCED BUDGET IMMEDIATELY!
4)We DEMAND $25 Trillion in spending cuts over the next 10 years!
5)All Unconstitutional programs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid etc.) will be ELIMINATED IMMEDIATELY!
If you don’t accede to our demands, we will DEFAULT on our $14.3 Trillion debt, and BLOW UP the US economy and global economy and bring about a GREAT DEPRESSION. Either do what we tell you, or we will BLOW UP THE WORLD! You have 2 days to give an answer. We are holding the US economy and global economy hostage. Either you will accede to our demands, or…you will suffer the consequences. The clock is ticking…
Ignorance by any other name stinks just the same.
You demonstrate that you, in truth, know nothing of the Tea Party, nor what they stand for.
In typical liberal fashion you make the Argument A or Z, when it is you that want Z, while the Tea Party actually want’s M, not A.
jd,
This is a must read so please check this article out.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Sarah-Palin-is-the-Ultimat-by-James-Murtagh-110731-486.html
Spam, Spam and More Spam!
Let’s remember how we got to this point — because — PJ Media will not remind us.
We’re at this point because of the Bush tax cuts. That’s the one
biggest contributor to the deficit, and it was the sole reason for the
last of these hostage-taking sessions by Republicans. They demanded
that we not let them expire. Didn’t give a crap about the deficit
then.
We’re at this point because Republicans insist that the rich pay not
one penny more in taxes, despite enjoying the lowest effective tax
rates in modern U.S. history. Instead, Republicans demand cuts to
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Straight-up class warfare,
though they will send for the fainting couch if you point that out.
We’re at this point because no matter what proposal McConnell or
another Republican comes forward with, within the same week they’ve
walked away from the talks again, demanding still more, and insisting
that their own proposal isn’t enough.
We’re at this point tonight because McConnell is currently
filibustering a bill that, in large part, is his own damn right-wing
proposal (see above). But he’s not done taking hostages yet.
We’re at this point because our own news media is too goddamn stupid
to recognize when one side is doing something truly extremist in
nature—never done before, and something both sides did without much
bluster—and insists that no, both parties must somehow be at fault.
We are at this point because none of us with good sense dares to start
shooting the goddam Teabagger Terrorists.
Old Redneck,
Take a look at these 2 articles and see what the Tea Party’s true intentions are for this country. All Americans in their right minds should take a good look.
http://www.eyesonobama.com/blog/content/id_51507/title_The-50-Most-Ridiculous-Tea-Party-Slogans/
http://lukeamerica2020.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/101-tea-party-sign-slogans/
redneck you soud like a dsmned IDIOT,
redneck, you are trapped in what I term ‘The Magic Cauldron’ view of wealth.
You see wealth as something that develops in a Magic Cauldron; it just emerges, magically, and no matter how much you take out, it keeps bubbling up with more and more. YOUR term for this Magic Cauldron is ‘the rich’.
But THINK. Just think a bit instead of falling into magical thinking. Notice that Obama, who also is in this trap, has redefined the Magic Cauldron to include, not billionaires and millionaires, but..he now calls anyone with an income of 200,000 – a millionaire! Did he fail grade 4 math? But, he wants to take their money and …give it (how generous of him) to others.
THINK.
There is no Magic Cauldron. Wealth emerges in an economy by productive work. And only, only in the private sector. Governments, bureaucrats and dependents don’t produce wealth; they CONSUME wealth.
Work produces goods and services that are sold on the free market. The profits must NOT be snatched up by the government and ‘given’ (heh) to non-producers of goods and services to be CONSUMED. No. THINK.
The profits must be used for INVESTMENT. These profits must be reinvested into enlarging the factory, updating the equipment, researching better methods, hiring more workers. This expands the economy. If you take away this investment capital, the economy dries up. Nothing happens.
If your govt increases taxes, viewing wealth production as a never-ending Magic Cauldron, then, the private sector – which is the ONLY wealth producing part of an economy – is killed.
Do you support this? Why?
Bet you can’t count how many innovative goods ‘created’ by the Governments NASA Agency have been provided to private sector economies. For sure, you have no clue how many goods has been created the the Department of Agricultural and provided to private sector economies. Even more certain, you have NO clue how many innovations in the heath care chain have been created by government entities and given to private sector economies. You obviously have NO clue what ‘non’ financial aid services FEMA provides for all kinds of disasters that the Red Cross and private sector economies have zero record of attempting or could provide. You obviously have NO clue of the broad scope of critical services provided by NOAA for which the private sector economies have zero recod of attempting to provide nor should they in several classified areas. How could someone so genius not know what goods and services the government Bureau of Engraving and Printing provides…even to you personally.
Shall I continue?
Still looking for bridges, dams and so many other critical infrastructure with plaques on them reading “built and privately funded by Intel Corporation” or Hughes electronics, or Walmart or…….GD or Sara Lee……..or………
TTTHomas – you don’t understand economic process.
NASA does not provide any ‘goods’; it provides research that can then be turned into patents and developed and built and marketed within the private sector.
The agricultural dept does not provide any ‘goods’; it provides research…
Innovations in health care? Research does not provide goods; it provides the analytic framework for a product..and then, private industry must manufacture and market.
Research is both govt funded and private funded. I’m sure you are aware of this. Or are you? Are you aware of the private hospitals, private universities and research centres? The big ones, such as Stanford, Harvard, MIT and etc..Are you aware of the private foundations that support them?
Research is always a communal effort; a team of scientists – in our modern world they are networked around the globe – work on problems and come up with possible answers. These are tested outside the laboratory – and then, may be taken up by a private company for production and marketing.
FEMA provides no goods; it provides a govt service, much like a public firefighter/police service.
Oh – and are you aware that it’s the private sector economies (which you deride) that are the SOLE source of the funds used to operate those public research centres, and NASA, FEMA, etc? Or do you subscribe, as I think you do, to the Magic Cauldron theory of wealth, which sees wealth as bubbling up in some magic pot (the mythical magical rich?)..and not generated within the private sector..
Kindly try to understand the infrastructure of an economy and society.
You’re certifiably nuts! You haven’t a clue what you ramble about! You rely upon a self annoited image of intellectual superiority and think it will intimidate most into believing your every word of rambling opinion and distortions.
A service or a government R&D product provided by the government to the private sector enhances the economies involved and otherwise proves rather efficient services on the services side that rhe privat sector has never provided and cannot provide. nearly all those services provide for some private sector jobs and certain enhanced revenue to thos private sector industries that provide goods to the government.
Folks want JOBS and INCOMES to feed their families and pay their bills no matter who the underlying source comes from…government or not!
So preach all your philosophies but Americans just want JOBS and INCOMES!
If the government announced government jobs starting next month and increasing over the next three years do you think for a moment the people will give a hoot about your economic philosophies? Hell NO! THEY WANT JOBS AND INCOMES TO FEED THEIR FAMILES AND PAY SOME BILLS!
IF the philosophies you tout over and over and over were viable, the nations private sector economies would have jumped them decades ago and we’d have a vibrant economy other than the two phony government propped up unsustainable ‘bubble ecomomies’ since the 90′s. Rather obvious the private sector economies see your philosophies as I do…voodoo crap! Otherwise, they’d long ago moved mightly to get the government out of their way.
Thats not the case! They rely on the government domestically and for foreign markets just as most folks across the country who want and need JOBS and INCOMES to feed their familes and pay bills.
If the private sector could function in an independent vaccum they would…but they can’t as has been proven for decades. Likewise, for ALL the states! They’re dead inthe water without federal government handouts providing MILLIONS of JOBS and INCOMES for their families, in additon to a wide array of other government services.
I don’t know…maybe you can roll the pages of those philosophy books and smoke them. Seemingly It possible you have alrady and thats your problem in failing to understand PEOPLE NEED AND WANT JOBS AND INCOMES FROM ANY SOURCE….GOVERNMENT SECTOR OR PRIVATE SECTOR. THEY DON’T CARE! THEY WANT TO WORK!
TTT – you simply don’t understand economics – and by the way, the books I was referring to dealt with economics – but don’t let that bother you. You insist on your innate, unlearned opinions as ‘knowledge’. OK.
You say that people want jobs and incomes. Wow; that’s quite the insight. But TTT, where are those jobs and incomes going to come from? You totally, utterly ignore the economics of jobs/income PRODUCTION. No, govts don’t create jobs; they take money from PRIVATE enterprise..and pay their bureaucrats. Govts don’t ‘make wealth’; only private businesses make wealth. You don’t understand this..and seem to think that money comes from a Magic Cauldron.
Each time you comment, it’s with yet another red herring; each time you bring up a new red herring that is functionally and intellectually empty. When it’s critiqued, you come up with another red herring. Whew.
You ignore that the massive explosion of govt and govt welfare programs has dessicated the capacity of the wealth-producing segment of the economy, the private sector – to support this Big Govt and Big Programs. You ignore this.
You ignore that unionization moved manufacturing jobs off shore.
You ignore that high tax rates has bled the industrial capacity to invest and thus, growth has ceased in this nation (I presume you are aware of the GDP?)
The millions of govt jobs that you boast about – are funded by the private sector! It’s unbelievable that you don’t understand basic economics.
Try answering one question, TTT. I know you don’t like facts..you don’t provide them, and when I ask for them, you say: ‘look it up’. But heh, you insist that I provide facts and refuse to look anything up yourself!
And to say that people need and want jobs and income from any source, reveals that you totally, completely, are focused only on the Consumer aspect of the economy and have no understanding of Investment and Production. Ah well.
At any rate – answer this: Where does the money come from that the govt used to pay its bureaucrats and its govt funded programs and its social security etc recipients. Where does the money come from?
Let’s imagine that you give NASA credit for the achievements of the Space Program. Ignore the fact that private contractors did everything but project management (and much of that was also performed by private entities). Ignore the fact that the Space Program has been about as different from all of the rest of government as could possibly be. You would have to twist yourself into a pretzel to compare NASA (at least during its first 30 or so years) to the medicare bureaucrats, as just one example. NASA is probably the least politicized program in US history, other than major wars. For the first 30 years there was an astonishing national consensus that enabled it to work without the overwhelming inefficiences that “normal” (i.e., rule-bound, regimented, inflexible, out-of-date from inception, “average” workforced, directed by criminal narcissistic politicians) governemnt is hopelessly plagued by. Despite all of that, the cost of it’s programs were still many times more than private industry could and would have achieved. The only thing that was better about NASA is that it’s specific timeline would not have been achieved without central control, for the simple fact that private industry, rightly, would not have viewed space travel as a priority in the 60′s and 70′s. We might still, for example, have not reached the moon. But the innovations achieved by private industry, without a NASA, would be many times greater (and almost certainly more useful for humanity) than NASA was able to achieve.
All of your posts, TT, demonstrate that you are for some reason enthralled by government. Why you don’t see that government is, by nature, the least efficient, most corrupt, and least adaptable entity imaginable is difficult to uderstand. You must be a bureaucrat yourself.
Thanks proreason…The ETAB debates started with statements that she has since abandoned, distorted or otherwise gone off into fantasy land diversions. I shant repost them as it would bore you. For most every post I make that references particular data or comment I intentionally include keys to facilitate one finding the full context of the data or comments. She is to lazy and demands everybody provide the full reference and link for her benefit. She refuses to do herself for the benefit of others what she DEMANDS of others.
Anyway, back to your points sir.
“The whole basis and underpinning of what we are trying to do in this administration is to return NASA to that more classical role of our 1958 Space Act of investing in technologies that will then help create new markets, so that the private sector can come in, benefit from this technology investment, and then we move on to do the next hard thing,” she said, summarizing the agency’s approach of working with companies and catalyzing private sector activity in space. “We’re not here to compete with the private sector—in fact, that’s not legal,” she added.
Thats one side of NASA. Theres yet another side of NASA. The public-private parnership ventures. Both have signficantly enhanced broad private sectors of the nations economy domestically and in foreign markets. Theres available, historical measures of such economic benefits. They’re broken down within the two approaches and further, within the specific sectors. Takes a bit of work but it is there and its….. signficant!
As to your comment about me seemingly being enthralled with government. Quite the contrary! However, we are where we are with government and the private sectors…. thoroughly corrupted. The ‘peoples’ special interest groups who run and corrupt every corner of the government. The lacking on behalf of the government to confine its constitutional authorities of regulating private sector commerce. The courts who are corrupted and allow the government full and virtually unchecked restraint and abuse of the commerce clause.
So here we are, presumably in the worst pickle since ’29, the depression and the dust bowl. The economy is in a worse pickle than any publicized rhetoric and the stock, commodities and bonds markets indicate. The unemplyment is far more than the for public consumption indicates and is rising again. Foreign nations and markets are in not much better shape if at all. Foreign leadership is shaking their heads. The global monetary system is beyond shaking their heads and potentially placing the USD as the global currency at risk. If the latter happens we’re doomed! The Tea party folks want to slash government and as I’ve previous commented, that means more lost jobs, and economy at the worst of times. Thers NO seamless tansition to jobs in the private sector. They only become non productive takers when the government can least afford it.
The States and their major metropolitan cities are in dire, dire condition. Slashing government funding to the state replicates the federal job loss and further deep economic liability enhancements on the states AND the federal government. Everything…all the dots, between the federal government, the states and the private sector are connected together. NO matter what one does to confine federal costs, the consequences ripple at warp speed through the private sector and the states public sector.
The nation is in a catch-22! All they socalled congress can do is shift liabilities from one place to another. The statesare first in line to have the beans shifted to them. Now what? They’re running and staying aflost on punie economies and massive government handouts.
In the meantime! We no longer have the economic bases left to serve out nation and the populations employment requirement. In the meantime, the people send billions of dollars to foreign entities such as China and other emerging nations via Walmart Domestic and global, most national bog box chains including grocers, commercial and individual investors, Arab and other foreign oil producers, raw materials producers, even fricking natural gas….and the list goes on! Maybe I should make mention of suposedly winding down the two major wars. Here again, significant job losses and losses to the economy from both the private and public sectors….not to mention a military with worn out equipment. Yet another costly proposition.
People need SUSTAINABLE JOBS and INCOMES to feed their families and pay the bills. They don’t care who sources the JOBS and INCOMES! Government or private sector.
Again the nation is in the tank and ther is NO such thing today as a seamles JOBS RECOVERY say fromthe public sector to the private sector.
The TEA PARTY folks aren’t using their heads! Their RHETORIC IS RECKLESS, THEIR ACTIONS thus far ARE RECKLESS! Its going to take the nations people and the entire government WORKING TOGETHER if there is to be any hope of a sustainble future for the coming generations, much less, in the shorter term of todays generations. The TEA PARTY is playing rigid POLITICAL GAMES and refusing to govern in the best interest of the nation, its cumulative peoples and in addressing honestly, the full facts of the problems and their causations.
Does anybody have ‘real solution ideas’ rather than silly philosophies which have to applicability for the immediate times and circumstances, to reconstituting a real, sustainable economy, real JOBS and and real INCOMES for the people?
I would suggest, proreason, that TTThomas is, not necessarily enthralled by government, but is financially dependent on govt. She is either a govt worker or subsidized by govt.
She certainly has no experience or even a rudimentary understanding of economics; has obviously never dealt with basic accounting, managed a payroll, dealt with costs and profits. So, my guess is that she’s a dependent on the govt – and, of course, has never bothered to even study economic axioms.
Empy talk about ‘working together’ is the old ‘sing around the campfire’ routine. You have to examine the content of the plans offered, not just accept them because that means we are ‘working together’. Obama has a specific agenda: his re-election. He and the Democrats could have dealt with this debt last fall, before the 2010 elections when they had control of all three govt branches; they chose NOT to do this; how’s that for ‘working together’?
I’d bet that he was afraid to because of that November election – and he lost the House anyway. Now, his focus is only on getting it behind him so that he can spread his empty misinformation and manipulative rhetoric as he campaigns (does he do anything else?)
The Tea Party, on the other hand, are not speaking rhetoric (empty words); they are speaking commonsense. It’s commonsense to not overspend, to have a limited rather than intervening soviet-style govoernment, to reduce taxes so that private sector can invest.
As for TTT – she obviously doesn’t understand basic economics and, I suspect, lives in a ‘bubble’ of govt-funded dependency. Ah well.
TT: “Does anybody have ‘real solution ideas’
Yeh. How’s about the ones that worked in 2002, in 1980, in 1960, and for the 150 years before 1930.
1. Get the government out of the business of regulation
2. Cut taxes so that productive people have the opportunity to create wealth, and hence jobs
3. Cut government down to its Constitutional authority.
I’m always slack jawed when I hear the comment that “we’ve tried everything”. The comment should be “everything we have tried has failed”. I realize you didn’t say exactly that, but your comment is functionally equivalent.
You’ve got it backwards….
The government doesnt invent, the PEOPLE do.
It was a couple bicycle mechanics that taught us to fly, and it was a couple of c’puter-geeks that allowed us to process data at astonishing rates…..
The government MAY be able to pour money into a project, but it always has to turn to private companies, and their private employees, to get “the stuff” that only the CITIZENS of a Boeing, Mcdonell Douglass, Bell, etc. can produce…
And it usually does so by waggling a “wish list” of features and performance objectives of its latest “gee, I wish we had one of THESE thingies, but I dont know HOW” in front of several PRIVATE COMPANIES to compete for the best design.
The “government” doesn’t MAKE ANYTHING
It’s even more than that.
Invention, innovation, wealth creation ISN’T EVEN THE FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT! And even beyond that, governments hate innovation, because every innovation transfers power from government to the innovator.
That’s why for 9,700 years after cities and government arose after agriculture was invented, the pace of innovation was snail-like. Lifestyles have changed more in the last 300 years than the prior 9,700 years because about 300 years ago, individuals began to wrest control away from command and control central governments. Frankly, most innovation in the prior 9700 happened because of military ambition. Other than the printing press, almost every advance was in weapon systems and associated technologies.
It’s so easy to understand that an 8 year-old can grasp it. When everything is controlled by a tiny handful of society, and 99%+ of humanity is enslaved to serve that tiny handful (who are happy as clams with their wealth and power), then it takes a minor miracle for anything to be invented. Hence, in 9700 years, you had the occassional Archimedes, Newton or Gutenberg. Now the world has millions of geniuses competing with each other to be the creator of the next automobile, IPAD or Google. We’ve gone from stirrups, wait 2,000 years, cement, wait 500 years, gunpowder, wait 1000 years, printing press, wait 500 years, to life-saving drugs in a few generatioins.
AND THESE IDIOTS WANT TO STOP IT ON A DIME !!!
So that, of course, they can rule in luxury forever with no chance of ever being displaced from their thrones again.
Poor Old Redneck; let’s cover your comments again.
Total Revenue Loss Projection of Bush tax cuts is estimated at 1.9 Trillion over 8 years or $237m per annum. Democrats have spent close to $5 trillion in the last 2 1/2 years. Personally if the additional taxes were applied dollar for dollar to our debt id support it. FYI the biggest benefactors of the Bush tax cuts were families making less than $100k. With the top 10% picking up over half the federal taxes for the country I suspect you support a welfare state. Let’s keep in mind there are more millionaire Democrats in office than Republicans. And speaking of taxes lets look at the growth rate in those states with the highest taxes…NY CA Ill CT. Taxes really helped them right ?
Ouh yea higher taxes have worked out well there !!
And yes we are at aa point of no return. Because of Democratic spending our credit is at risk. Someone FINALLY stands up and states we can’t keep this up and their holding the country hostage ? By the way you could confiscate all the wealth of millionaires and it wouldn’t amount to one trillion.
While Democrats Dodd and Frank were running the Banking and Senate Finance Committees we got financially crushed. Yet these putz’s are rewriting the rules for all of banking ? If you read Ws book he tried to reform FNMA/FHLB 17 times, voted down by your wonderful Ds. In closing I’m suprised you hate major media as it supports every viewpoint you have…Keep hating Bush and ignoring what the rest of us see every day; AN OMNIPOTENT PROGRESSIVE EMPTY SUIT
I see your ‘goddam Teabagger Terrorists’ and raise you 50 ‘nazi-loving Democrat devil-worshipping baby killers’
What a nightmare you all have in America. Here in Canada the government implements anew tax every day for something or another. Take for instance a !2% sales tax on everything from soup to nuts. Seven hundred thousand people signed a petition and the Liberal basturds are still colecting it a year later. August 5 we might be able to kill it when we finaly get to wote. Cheers you all.
What are you talking about? Your post has no data, no facts.
Could you provide evidence for a ‘new tax every day’?
Is this particular tax everywhere in Canada?
And – is it ‘soup to nuts’?
I thought the Conservatives were in power in Canada.
What are you talking about?
Obama has shown he’s as useless as a president as he was as a senator. Only less “present”.
THE GREAT DEFAULTER IN CHIEF
Be strong Republicans,
And call Obama’s bluff.
He doesn’t want to go down in history
As THE GREAT DEFAULTER IN CHIEF.
So load it all on him.
Let him bear the cross.
Dare him to default,
Or the 14th Amendment
Illegally invoke-
This is what scares him
And keeps him up at night.
As the economy he’s ruining
Continues to go south
In 2012 he’ll be evicted
From the White House.
Click ApolloSpeaks for my top widely linked Town Hall blog
O-BLAME-A is a pure progressive
He hates compromise as it indicates he’s partially wrong
He looked like a fool playing the blame game every other day
Unconditional spending without recourse in the name of “progress”
No budget for over 800 days and blaming others
What we got was the VPs budget:
Joe Biden – “If we don’t keep spending we’ll go broke”
Dictating what you eat
Dictating energy choices
Dictating health care choices
Dictating automobile choices
Dictating economic winners (GE) and loosers (Big Oil)
Regulate targeted companies into bankruptcy
WE KNOW A LOOSER WHEN WE SEE ONE and he lives at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue
T.T. – Great list of Governmental Departments and their NO CLUE offerings !
How about a few specifics – and you can for get about ‘Tang’ and those cute little ’feather weight space blankets’ – most of our ‘space development guys’ are already gone – those remaining will be doing weather!
How about a sign attached to their office door ‘Weather Station Provided by B. Hussein Obama!
So cut the staffing for each one of your listed Government agencies by half – then we could start to see some savings. Unions would be upset – but gosh we have to start somewhere!
Yeh, both parties look like idiots, but it’s a minor distraction from the two mega-trends in America for the last 60 to 70 years.
The one we all know about and talk about all the time is the rise of stealth marxism. The marxists love the kinds of distractions like the debt ceiling “debate”. LOL. The “debate” is whether Congress will invoke accounting tricks to disguise the massive increase in government spending or not. Anyway, marxism is the most important mega-trend. If you don’t believe it, observe the criminal in the White House for a few minutes.
But there is another one that is hardly ever discussed, yet you know it is true for an absolute fact. It’s the rise of the political uber-criminal crime bosses. This has been going on for a long time, but has accelerated dramatically since WWII and may be as important as the rise of the marxists.
In the 1930′s and before, master criminals had many avenues to prey on the country. Wall Street, industry, and of course, the Mafia and it’s predecessors. Not that there weren’t political criminals, but since the 40′s the incredible expansion of government has literally put trillions and trillions of dollars into the hands of common crooks. There are hundreds of them in Congress and thousands more in state and local government. Nowadays, why should an ambitious young criminal with any kind of an education at all go into anything but government? Why risk your likfe and limbs for a high-risk return when you can go into governemnt, and with ZERO RISK, become unimagainably wealthy? I mean, Kerry, Reid, Obama, et al maybe be psychopaths but they aren’t STUPID. By the way, their stated wealth is merely the tiniest fraction of their true wealth. The potus, to state the most obvious example, is really one of the handful of wealthiest people in the world. Not many people own a 747 staffed by several hundred people. That’s wealth, my friends. And then if doesn’t make himself permanent dictator of the country, all he has to look forward to is 10x what Bubba has claimed as Bubba’s payoff for facilitating his criminal compadres while in office.
I could go on, but you can fill in the book youself. Actually, more like dozens of books longer than War and Peace.
And oh yes, I forgot to mention it.
The Political Uber-criminals are in a tight alliance with the marxists. They don’t seems to know, or don’t care, that they will be dead within a few montns if the marxists ever get the power they seek. Obama’s power is 1% of what they demand and have a good change of getting.
The Founders didn’t know about marxism, of course, but they sure knew about the uber-criminals. Yet, I doubt thay they could have ever conceived of the wealth that fuels these psychopaths (and yes, most of them are psychopaths of the higherst order.)
Losers All Around in Debt Limit Debate
True. But I am particularly dismayed (to put it lightly) with the GOP leadership in both bodies. The ONLY good bill they put forward was the Cut, Cap & Balance. It is a bill that is straightforward, digestible to the public at large, logically sound, and widely popular among voters. But this excellent bill was no sooner passed by the widest margin so far out of the House when both McConnell and Boehner leapt in to undermine it. In doing so they completely muddied the waters. Of course the Democrat Senate immediately had CCB tabled. But at that point the GOP leadership should have stood firm and DEMANDED that CCB be voted on in the Senate BEFORE carrying the debate go any further. Eventually Reid/Obama would have had no choice but to allow a vote, which would put those who oppose a Balanced Budget Amendment (which is highly desired by the public) clearly on the record for the upcoming election battle. But no. Our leaders in Congress couldn’t keep it simple and take an unflinching stand on the one bill that makes the most sense and has the most popular support. They blew it. They made this huge fuss about how critical it was that we line up behind Boehner on his stupid 3.0 bill, and where did it get us? Absolutely nowhere. Boehner 3.0 was dead on arrival, just like CCB. And so now these weaklings are meeting in the cloak room again, hammering out another “deal” to dump on our poor heads. We need to hold these leaders accountable. The talking-head elite are wrong to demand that we line up behind our leaders rather than behind the expectations that we have of them. Screw the “optics” — We need leaders whom we can trust to fulfill their promises to us. Limbaugh and Levin have it right, Kristol and Ingraham (etc. etc.) have it wrong in asking us to declare victory on something that we clearly have not won. The dems are playing us, the way they always do, while our leadership & elite pundits insist that we accept half-measures. WE CANNOT DO THAT. The situation is too dire. We do not have one moment to lose in bringing sanity back to our nation.
America has a lot to needs: money, jobs, stability, advanced industry, but what we most lack is trust. This conflict, cut spending, and/or raise taxes is an old one. Remember, “No new taxes”? It was the death knell of the first Bush Presidency. He blinked in another grand bargain to cut spending while raising taxes, which arithmetic says balances the budget. Unfortunately for him, and America, Congress played Lucie to Charlie Brown, whipped the football away a second before he kicked the game winning field goal. They raised taxes and cut nothing. We got debt.
Today, both sides play Lucie, and have for many years. Each side can legitimately point to seventeen levels of lying. There is zero trust. The Tea Party is the obvious result: just cut spending because you lie about taxes. They hold that the American dollar is becoming worthless, because we are spending far more than we can pay back, so why not destroy the economy next Tuesday. The libs are like the party drunk: one more for the road, for tomorrow we die.
Paul Krugman, an economist, says double down the bet, and maybe we will get a winning hand. But we are way deep in the hole. And all the money went to friends of Obama. We did not spend on new bridges and roads. This is impossible without decades of environmental permit litigation. Anybody see a new interstate system empty of traffic? The key to government spending is that it must be beneficial to society. If it just goes to vested interests, e.g. ethanol subsidies, or windmill subsidies, or polar bear regulatory lawyers, it just drags our economy down. Guess where we are?
Do not worry about Tuesday, unless you are a starving grandmother, or orphan. Wall street will get their money. The people who infest the US 45,000 government commissions, with fat salaries, and limousines, will get their perks.
The pols will kick the can down the street. Again. Trust me.
The average person can’t even contemplate a TRILLION dollars, or, a trillion anyting. Here’s an example:
A million seconds pass in 12 days.
A billion seconds pass in 31 years.
A trillion seconds pass in 31,688 years!
Here’s a personal example: 2 weeks ago, oranges at Walmart Superstore were $.30 each. Last week they were $.48. A few days ago they were $.58. That’s a 93% price rise in less than 2 weeks.
T.T.Thomas and ALL statists believe in theft. Theft will save us. Insane? You betcha!
Here’s a link to some very interesting charts comparing this current recession and recovery (lack of ) with others from 1948.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/31/guess-what-happened-to-that-obama-recovery/
It’s stunning to see the lack of employment recover in this current recession, which began in 2007 (when the Democrats took control of Congress and began their housing debacle)..The bottoming out of employment – whew.
And.. the output (production) is equally dismal.
So much for Obama’s famed ‘stimulus’ which in reality, all but 6% went to his unionized buddies in the public service…and did nothing, nothing, for the infrastructure of job development in the private sector.
Quote: “We have been saying for two years that the Obama “recovery” has been smoke and mirrors, and the revisions in the GDP reporting make that pretty clear now. The other clear takeaway from this is that the Keynesian stimulus bill utterly failed to produce anything more than a temporary, artificial spike in economic indicators, and not a particularly impressive spike at that.”
The spike was the maintenance of public service unionized jobs. The fact that Obama and the Democrats have ignored job creation in the private sector and have instead been focusing on expanding their dependent electoral base (the public service, the social security dependents, welfare dependents, the illegals)…is outrageous.
Consumer prices have risen because of the increased costs of producing goods – as revenues have declined and yet, Obama and the Democrats have increased the costs of govt – well, he’s added 3 Trillion to the debt since he took over, created 100,000 new federal jobs, expanded food stamps, expanded unemployment insurance, turned his head away from the costs to the states of illegals, bought out private companies (GM); ignored the laws (cap and trade was rejected but Obama’s EPA is working away on their own..)…and so on.
Take a look at the charts of employment and production ‘recovery’ comparisons with all the previous recessions since 1948. This one, under Obama, is a disaster.
Absolutely.
Their plan is exactly on track.
Current operational priority: slime and destroy the Tea Party, the one organization in the country that knows the truth, speaks the truth, and stands in the tyrants’ way.
And don’t think for a second that they get distracted by the crisis of the day. They have their hands on your throat, and the song in the background isn’t to keep them amused, it’s to keep you distracted.
The latest tactical plan, btw, well guess what, it has a little twist. You know, the grand compromise where they agree to 2.4T in “cuts” (lol) and give up a “vote” on the BBA and a two-step approach. The “twist” is that when the “bi-partisan” commission can’t reach an agreement on the “second round of cuts”, then automatic triggers will go into effect, including SS and Medicare cuts, which, of course, will be 100% blamed on the Tea Party if we don’t agree to raise, you guessed it, taxes.
Proreason…I rembere when I first came to PJM to advocate for a constitutional amemendment of the commerce clause. You was among the fist to inform me we didn’t need it and it would work. Other piled on and called me a moron.
Funny how a fickle people spend so much time demanding the goverrnment get out of the way of private sector commerce and let it do its ‘natural’ function and for the government to quit ‘regulating’ commerce.
Then we have folks like ETAB who is a philosophical minion for which if she wasn’t wouldn’t be able to fuction independently. It is such philosphies for which she supports that fsils our society. You see. NOTHING …and I mean NOTHING prevents the private sector from being innovative. NOTHING prevents the private sector from doing what people such as ETAB subscribes to. They obviously reject it. Saved for last! Folks who follow the ilk of ETAB are not quite so intelligent as they would have folks believe. I would invite all to study her prescription and see how much government policy making is needed 1) to implement it and 2) make it work. But people follow the stupid if their rhetoric is slick.
Other than some very GOP/financial favorable regulations NOTHING has changed in the government from the BUSH ADMINISTRATION… CLINTON ADMINISTRATION that has changed the government private sectors [fundament] functions. The onbly thing is an event (housing bubble collapse) that crashed the ‘financials’ and put at risk that sector in a big way. Everything else in the private sector economies is not in any way being debilitated by the very same commerce policies long establesed and in place in both good and bad times. Try looking at tax rates historicall! Low…low….low…historically low! Same for interst rates!
The Obama health care as it may affect the private sector. Incraesed premiums as ‘usual’ OR get this one! OPT OUT OF HEALTH CARE…sending some to the government ‘pool’ programs.
NOBODY is stopping innovators from innovating! NOBODY is stopping any commerce from functioning! JOBS! JOBS! JOBS when the current economy (and most future economies) can meet supply and demand without a “BLOATED” workforce. Ignore the population factor in a dispersed global economy all you want and see what that gets us!
Rich,
Your piece evokes the same profound sadness that I feel as this political circus draws to its predictable conclusion. Espressed as a song title, it would be “Is That All There Is?” This battle is not between the GOP and Democrat Party, with an electorate that is fairly evenly divided and a Federal government still skewed towards the Dems. The real battle is between the Ruling Class and the Country Class, and the Ruling Class is firmly entrenched in Washington D.C. and the Boston-New York-Washington Beltway. There was never any doubt that this charade we have witness for the last 7 months would end badly for those who believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility and constitutional integrity.
Still, it is particularly galling to watch the political leadership congratulate themselves on the “significant” cuts in spending that have been approved, when there has been no approved budget for the last three fiscal years. In fact, the only thing that has been “cut” is the CBO’s projected INCREASE in Federal government spending from the unsustainable level of fiscal 2011. In return for these non-cuts, our Ruling Class has averted “financial disaster” by agreeing to add another $ 2.4+ trillion to our already unsustainable national debt, and without any discussion about the unfunded obligations that are not even part of that sorry picture.
The House Republicans still hold the card of responsibility for initiating spending authority for fiscal 2012, but without a change in leadership, there is no hope that any power they may have will be exercised in any effective manner to head off our stampede towards the cliff of currency devaluation.
I hope that the AT will publish your article, as I would like to see the reader comments it would elicit.
I think the Republicans look much better than the Democrats. The Democratic Senate hasn’t passed a budget in over 800 days, despite controling a supermajority for most of that time, as well as control of the House. Since, the Republican take over in the house, the house has sent them the Ryan budget, Cut Cap and Balance debt limit, and the short term debt limit. From the incompetent Democrat Senate? the sound of crickets
Again, the govt knew this debt ceiling was coming months ago; when the Democrats controlled all three sections of govt – they did nothing. Purposely.
They didn’t want to deal with it during the November elections. Even so, Obama lost the House. But they could have dealt with it in the Lame Duck session in Nov-Dec. They didn’t. Why not?
Because Obama’s focus, as usual, is always and only on Himself. He’s concerned about his re-election – and he’s afraid of the Tea Party. So, he and the Gang delayed and delayed dealing with this – to try to vilify the Tea Party.
The GOP came up with Ryan’s budget; Obama ridiculed it and insulted Ryan to his face. The GOP came up with Cut,Cap and Balance: Obama said he’d veto it, and his minions in the Senate refused to even debate or vote on it. Boehner came up with yet another plan – and…same thing..Obama threatening to veto and the sycophants in the Senate tabling it without a vote.
Meanwhile, Obama was giving speech after speech vilifying the ‘radical Tea Party’; his MSM (MSNBC) was 24/7 vilifying the Tea Party. But tell me, what is so radical about a commonsense request for a govt to have a budget, to reduce taxes and allow investment, to reduce the size of govt..and to stay within a budget and not operate in the red? Those are the axioms of the Tea Party; how can they be described as radical? They are basic commonsense to any responsible citizen.
But now, Obama has his debt raised until after he’s re-elected (or not) and a heh, no new taxes. I wouldn’t trust Obama with a sliced banana. He’s a pathological liar.
Watch him – in the next months as he campaigns, he’ll create more crises and more apocalyptic scenarios to vilify the GOP and the Tea Party…Watch him; he’s a demagogue, not a genuine democratic leader.
The piece, “A minority Tea Party Beats Superior Forces” make the factual case that a small group of fiscal and constitutional conservatives have managed in a short period of a few months reverse the policy of an Administration that seems to be in full retreat.
They say that “they have managed to reverse the policy of the Executive and the Senate from how-much-can-we-spend to how-much-can-we-cut.”
They are right. Full read at http://www.robbingamerica.com
Bottom line! The TeaParty-GOP AND a willing Democrat Party led the nation off into a discussion and resulting in a totally dysfunvtional government over defict and debt IGNORING THE NATIONS PEOPLE STRUGGLING FOR JOBS AND PAYING BILLS IN AN ECONOMY BEING IGNORED BY THE TEA PARTY-GOP FOOR POLITIC OVER GOVERNING FOR THE PEOPLE.
Thats sad! The TeaParty-GOP have NO plans…NO strategies for fixing the economy and jobs…and will not address it besides more political rhetoric between now and 2012 election!
Thats NOT governing on behalf of the nation and its people!
Gosh, TTT, here you are again. Notice something unique about TTT? She keeps writing the weirdest opinions.
She says that the GOP/Tea Party have no plans – ignoring Ryan’s budget, ignoring Cut, Cap and Balance, ignoring Boehner’s plan. Gosh, she’s ignored THREE GOP/Tea Party plans! Weird.
And, ignores the basic axioms of the Tea Party: limited government, fiscal responsibility (that means a balanced budget, TTT, in case you don’t understand basic economics); individual responsibility. That’s all basic commonsense, TTT, but I know you don’t understand this. Weird.
Oh, and TTT, you’ve also, in your mechanical mindset, ignored the basic infrastructure of economics. It’s a triad: Investment; Production; Consumption. You can’t produce something…even if you invent it..if you don’t have investment capital! Gosh – I bet you don’t know that; I’ll bet you think that all anyone has to do is: innovate!…And whoosh…it will be produced! Did you forget something, TTT? Did you forget INVESTMENT? Hmmm?
Nope! I haven’t forgotten a thing! For certain I haven’t forgotten that all your economic philosophy has sure made the nation and world a much better place over the last 300 years. What happened? You couldn’t find a way of including “she” in your silly retort?
["You can’t produce something…even if you invent it..if you don’t have investment capital!"]
Who holds the majority of the nations monetary assests?
If you can create or have already, [consumers] in sufficient numbers for any innovation, investment capital will flow! But you wouldn’t know that as, you’ve never had your head out of those philosophy books long enough the see and learn some reality. You might also learn that but for the [consumer] ‘companies’ could never achieve any such thing as investment capital…cash reserve or borrowing capacity! You might also learn that the ‘government as a consumer’ based on it’s particular and peculiar needs, has long been the motivation for one heck of a lot of innovations from the private sector. You might also learn that the vast majority of patents from todays generations are [Improvements and Design] patents.
But you keep on preaching your philosophy crap that has NO standing in reality, thus, the world would have had the perfect economic models in place long ago. Those who have NEVER produced anything tangible for the consumer markets or ran a company of economic significance are always the philosophers and know it alls! What of the basic needs for life sustainment have you ever produced? What companies of rather significant economic impact have you ever run? What exactly are your personal experiences in the nations economic chain that qualifies you as an economic expert? A philosophical book or two written by somebody of your mentality and experience is probably all you have to cling to for your claim of expert!
Heck, I’m betting you can’t even figure out how to change oil, the spark plugs or the Serpentine Belt or…… in your car. Probably a good thing though, as thats what keep mechanics and lawyers occupied…..doing what others are to lazy to do or don’t have the capacity of understanding.