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	<title>Comments on: Libertarians Need to Rethink Support for Drug Legalization</title>
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	<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/</link>
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		<title>By: fruit go</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-546964</link>
		<dc:creator>fruit go</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 09:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-546964</guid>
		<description>Can you describe the first part further? The more things change, the more they stay the same,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you describe the first part further? The more things change, the more they stay the same,</p>
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		<title>By: ArtD0dger</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-491908</link>
		<dc:creator>ArtD0dger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-491908</guid>
		<description>&quot;In abandoning the duty to enforce social order, today’s libertarians have made a devil’s pact with the pro-drug forces of George Soros and company.&quot;

Soros and Co. are practically salivating at the opportunity to enforce their version of the social order.  I don&#039;t see that their vision differs from the author&#039;s in any respect that I would consider important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In abandoning the duty to enforce social order, today’s libertarians have made a devil’s pact with the pro-drug forces of George Soros and company.&#8221;</p>
<p>Soros and Co. are practically salivating at the opportunity to enforce their version of the social order.  I don&#8217;t see that their vision differs from the author&#8217;s in any respect that I would consider important.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Goodman</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-480097</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Goodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 06:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The author is perplexed that libertarianism and traditionalism are not the same thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author is perplexed that libertarianism and traditionalism are not the same thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-479389</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-479389</guid>
		<description>I think what libertarians really need to do is reconsider their association with conservatives (at least the kind who hold views like the ones expressed here).  There&#039;s so much wrong with this article it&#039;s almost mind-boggling, but I&#039;ll just start by echoing Dan Patrick&#039;s comment about whether tradition provides moral validation for an activity.  Slavery had a rich tradition in western “civilization” for millennia.  Should we bring that back?  How about torture?  Oh, wait, nevermind.  (Also, you might want to rethink how this argument applies to marijuana, since it&#039;s only been illegal in the U.S. since 1937.)

But of all the ridiculous ideas expressed here, perhaps the most absurd is the notion that in order to protect our freedoms the government must “enforce social order”—by preventing people from smoking a plant that makes them inclined to sit around, laugh, and eat junk food.  Do I need to point out the irony here?  You talk about the left’s dream of a nation of zombies, so drug-addled that they’re unable to resist indoctrination.  But what’s the right’s dream?  A nation of bright-eyed, enthusiastic drones eager to put the shackles on themselves?  

The latter scenario sounds a bit scarier to me.  Almost enough to make me want to roll up a doob and take a few tokes of the daemon weed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what libertarians really need to do is reconsider their association with conservatives (at least the kind who hold views like the ones expressed here).  There&#8217;s so much wrong with this article it&#8217;s almost mind-boggling, but I&#8217;ll just start by echoing Dan Patrick&#8217;s comment about whether tradition provides moral validation for an activity.  Slavery had a rich tradition in western “civilization” for millennia.  Should we bring that back?  How about torture?  Oh, wait, nevermind.  (Also, you might want to rethink how this argument applies to marijuana, since it&#8217;s only been illegal in the U.S. since 1937.)</p>
<p>But of all the ridiculous ideas expressed here, perhaps the most absurd is the notion that in order to protect our freedoms the government must “enforce social order”—by preventing people from smoking a plant that makes them inclined to sit around, laugh, and eat junk food.  Do I need to point out the irony here?  You talk about the left’s dream of a nation of zombies, so drug-addled that they’re unable to resist indoctrination.  But what’s the right’s dream?  A nation of bright-eyed, enthusiastic drones eager to put the shackles on themselves?  </p>
<p>The latter scenario sounds a bit scarier to me.  Almost enough to make me want to roll up a doob and take a few tokes of the daemon weed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Patrick</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-479309</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-479309</guid>
		<description>Just because a lot of people do something for a long time (i.e. tradition) doesn&#039;t give it moral sanction.  Morality is not culturally relative.  Culture might be a reason to consider WHY people hold certain morality, but simply doing something as a result of cultural traditions does not justify a given act as moral.

Should we condone female genital mutilation in parts of Africa simply because it&#039;s their tradition?  Condoning locking people in cages because they choose to put a substance in their body that is not supported by cultural consensus is no different.

Aside from the moral argument, prohibition simply doesn&#039;t work.  The War on Drugs is only costlier, more violent, and less practical today than it was 30 years ago.

Your examples of the &quot;disasters&quot; that would ensue following legalization are asinine and based on the idea that every other government intervention is OK.  Employers should be able to use any standards they want for screening employees.  They should be free to test them for grape lollipop use if they want and bar all grape eaters from employment.  It&#039;s their business, their money, and they can use whatever arbitrary (if bad for business) criteria they want.

As for stoners eating up welfare, that&#039;s just silly.  Aside from the fact that the majority of marijuana users are perfectly productive people, welfare is nearly as an egregious offense as locking up drug users.  Nobody should have money forcibly taken from them to be given to someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because a lot of people do something for a long time (i.e. tradition) doesn&#8217;t give it moral sanction.  Morality is not culturally relative.  Culture might be a reason to consider WHY people hold certain morality, but simply doing something as a result of cultural traditions does not justify a given act as moral.</p>
<p>Should we condone female genital mutilation in parts of Africa simply because it&#8217;s their tradition?  Condoning locking people in cages because they choose to put a substance in their body that is not supported by cultural consensus is no different.</p>
<p>Aside from the moral argument, prohibition simply doesn&#8217;t work.  The War on Drugs is only costlier, more violent, and less practical today than it was 30 years ago.</p>
<p>Your examples of the &#8220;disasters&#8221; that would ensue following legalization are asinine and based on the idea that every other government intervention is OK.  Employers should be able to use any standards they want for screening employees.  They should be free to test them for grape lollipop use if they want and bar all grape eaters from employment.  It&#8217;s their business, their money, and they can use whatever arbitrary (if bad for business) criteria they want.</p>
<p>As for stoners eating up welfare, that&#8217;s just silly.  Aside from the fact that the majority of marijuana users are perfectly productive people, welfare is nearly as an egregious offense as locking up drug users.  Nobody should have money forcibly taken from them to be given to someone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Broughton</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-476610</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Broughton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-476610</guid>
		<description>I note that Dana Larsen is a respected (if occasionally controversial) Biblical scholar. I agree with all of the points he makes.

In a modern, secular, pluralistic democracy, we ought to take into account all peaceful religious practices, regardless of origin. Many of the world&#039;s religions (including those from small-scale societies) recognize that plants are a gift from the gods, the Tao, or whatever. The use of plants for spiritual practices is *documented* over 7000 years ago, and no doubt goes back much, much further.

As a practicing Taoist, I am offended that anyone would attempt to restrict access to plants. Attempts to justify such a restriction based on an interpretation of the Bible makes equally as much sense as using the Koran to support alcohol prohibition. Sorry, those particular books carry no authority for me.

BTW those of us who propagate classical Chinese medicine are constantly encountering similar attempts to restrict other traditional, healing herbs. In many cases, the justification is &quot;scientific&quot; as opposed to &quot;Christian&quot;. The fact is that scientific method has evolved more than once in human history, and the ancient Taoists had an effective scientific method at least 5000 years ago. Without their empiricism, it would have been impossible to have developed Chinese medicine. The difference between Taoist science and Western science lies mainly in the rules of evidence, which explains why the two methods have slightly different capabilities.

Really we are talking about culture clash here. Christians tend to exclude other religions from consideration, even going so far as to classify them as occult. Please don&#039;t take this the wrong way, but that is an ignorant attitude, and has absolutely nothing to do with libertarianism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I note that Dana Larsen is a respected (if occasionally controversial) Biblical scholar. I agree with all of the points he makes.</p>
<p>In a modern, secular, pluralistic democracy, we ought to take into account all peaceful religious practices, regardless of origin. Many of the world&#8217;s religions (including those from small-scale societies) recognize that plants are a gift from the gods, the Tao, or whatever. The use of plants for spiritual practices is *documented* over 7000 years ago, and no doubt goes back much, much further.</p>
<p>As a practicing Taoist, I am offended that anyone would attempt to restrict access to plants. Attempts to justify such a restriction based on an interpretation of the Bible makes equally as much sense as using the Koran to support alcohol prohibition. Sorry, those particular books carry no authority for me.</p>
<p>BTW those of us who propagate classical Chinese medicine are constantly encountering similar attempts to restrict other traditional, healing herbs. In many cases, the justification is &#8220;scientific&#8221; as opposed to &#8220;Christian&#8221;. The fact is that scientific method has evolved more than once in human history, and the ancient Taoists had an effective scientific method at least 5000 years ago. Without their empiricism, it would have been impossible to have developed Chinese medicine. The difference between Taoist science and Western science lies mainly in the rules of evidence, which explains why the two methods have slightly different capabilities.</p>
<p>Really we are talking about culture clash here. Christians tend to exclude other religions from consideration, even going so far as to classify them as occult. Please don&#8217;t take this the wrong way, but that is an ignorant attitude, and has absolutely nothing to do with libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: 2common sense</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-476374</link>
		<dc:creator>2common sense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-476374</guid>
		<description>Prohibition is enforced religious morality on steroids. It so belongs to the horse and buggy days of history. We should end this futile attempt to control victimless activity by threat of fines and jail because real resources are being squandered on imaginary crimes.  
The planet has a troubling fever, a worldwide recession/depression, and the last time I checked, hundreds of millions of people were without food and potable water.  Let’s redirect our energies to find 21st century solutions to real problems and leave the morality police to the church.
Dumb stoners, like dumb drunks were most likely dumb children. Alcohol is so much more dangerous and debilitating than cannabis that there is little doubt who would win the stoner vs drunkard Olympics. 
Most marijuana consumers, like most alcohol users exhibit the normal range of skills, intelligence and (ahem) memory.  This negative stoner stereo typing is untrue and unfair to those who make the safer choice by choosing marijuana over alcohol. 
Dumb Stoners?  Why not instead refer to the mental acuity of Carl Sagan, the political wit of Bill Maher, the acting of Woody Harrelson, or the athletic prowess of Michael Phelps? 
P.s. Written by a stoned stoner J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prohibition is enforced religious morality on steroids. It so belongs to the horse and buggy days of history. We should end this futile attempt to control victimless activity by threat of fines and jail because real resources are being squandered on imaginary crimes.<br />
The planet has a troubling fever, a worldwide recession/depression, and the last time I checked, hundreds of millions of people were without food and potable water.  Let’s redirect our energies to find 21st century solutions to real problems and leave the morality police to the church.<br />
Dumb stoners, like dumb drunks were most likely dumb children. Alcohol is so much more dangerous and debilitating than cannabis that there is little doubt who would win the stoner vs drunkard Olympics.<br />
Most marijuana consumers, like most alcohol users exhibit the normal range of skills, intelligence and (ahem) memory.  This negative stoner stereo typing is untrue and unfair to those who make the safer choice by choosing marijuana over alcohol.<br />
Dumb Stoners?  Why not instead refer to the mental acuity of Carl Sagan, the political wit of Bill Maher, the acting of Woody Harrelson, or the athletic prowess of Michael Phelps?<br />
P.s. Written by a stoned stoner J</p>
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		<title>By: Dana Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-476347</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 07:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-476347</guid>
		<description>The Bible also can be seen to sanction slavery, subjugation of women and dozens of other anti-liberty standpoints.

When considering which &quot;other drugs&quot; we should legalize, let&#039;s remember that what we often call &quot;drugs&quot; are really very useful, culturally relevant plants with a beneficial medicinal and social use which goes back into pre-history, well before the Bible and even alcohol. 

Coca leaf, opium poppy, cannabis flowers and peyote cactus all have a long history of beneficial social and medicinal use. The idea that we need to ban these natural plant medicines is absurd and a violation of the liberty of the individual. 

No plant should ever be illegal! Anyone who believes that a human being should not be allowed to grow any plant they desire in their own garden is absolutely not a libertarian in any sense of the word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bible also can be seen to sanction slavery, subjugation of women and dozens of other anti-liberty standpoints.</p>
<p>When considering which &#8220;other drugs&#8221; we should legalize, let&#8217;s remember that what we often call &#8220;drugs&#8221; are really very useful, culturally relevant plants with a beneficial medicinal and social use which goes back into pre-history, well before the Bible and even alcohol. </p>
<p>Coca leaf, opium poppy, cannabis flowers and peyote cactus all have a long history of beneficial social and medicinal use. The idea that we need to ban these natural plant medicines is absurd and a violation of the liberty of the individual. </p>
<p>No plant should ever be illegal! Anyone who believes that a human being should not be allowed to grow any plant they desire in their own garden is absolutely not a libertarian in any sense of the word.</p>
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		<title>By: whatever</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-475511</link>
		<dc:creator>whatever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-475511</guid>
		<description>Every time I see someone weaving down the road, or has a glazed-over look in their eye, sure enough, what have they been imbibing on? ((A cell phone.))
Science, not rhetoric. There is no scientific reason for the prohibition of cannabis. None. Case closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every time I see someone weaving down the road, or has a glazed-over look in their eye, sure enough, what have they been imbibing on? ((A cell phone.))<br />
Science, not rhetoric. There is no scientific reason for the prohibition of cannabis. None. Case closed.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey in NC</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/libertarians-need-to-rethink-support-for-drug-legalization/#comment-475326</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey in NC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=74915#comment-475326</guid>
		<description>Cannabis has been used for over 4000 years, and has a wide range of therapeutic uses. Alcohol....causes psoriasis and violence. Not that I believe in the prohibition of alcohol, that obviously didn&#039;t work, but the prohibition of cannabis has only been around for 70 odd years. Before prohibition, it was a routinely prescribed medicine. And it remains one of the most religious, social, homeopathic, conscious expanding sacraments in existence. Hopefully cannabis will be legal in my lifetime, its potential is unfathomable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cannabis has been used for over 4000 years, and has a wide range of therapeutic uses. Alcohol&#8230;.causes psoriasis and violence. Not that I believe in the prohibition of alcohol, that obviously didn&#8217;t work, but the prohibition of cannabis has only been around for 70 odd years. Before prohibition, it was a routinely prescribed medicine. And it remains one of the most religious, social, homeopathic, conscious expanding sacraments in existence. Hopefully cannabis will be legal in my lifetime, its potential is unfathomable&#8230;</p>
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