Liberalism: Because We Know What’s Best For You
The Washington Post revealed a shocking quote from Senator Benjamin Cardin (D-MD). After watching press coverage of town hall meetings across the nation where Americans have come out against the president and some in Congress who desire a more robust government involvement in health care, and after facing 1,000 or more of his own constituents generally expressing the same sentiment, Senator Cardin exclaimed:
I am more resolved than ever.
His reasoning?
I love debating … but I personally believe the American people still want us to deal with tough problems.
Maybe he wasn’t listening.
“I personally believe … “
More likely, he is following that path of every politician who approaches government with an avowed left-of-center philosophy — Benjamin Cardin believes he is smarter than the average American. He believes he knows more facts than his constituents, and the little people will be better off and much happier once his plans for making the world a better place are up and running.
On issue after issue, the philosophical liberals believe they are the doctor and they have the cure for what ails America — even if America doesn’t believe it is sick.
Poll after poll has shown the American people clearly do not believe that health care is broken. The most recent Gallup poll shows 49 percent of Americans disagree with Obama’s health care overhaul, and only 43 percent agree. The latest FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll reports that only 34 percent favor and 49 percent oppose the health care proposals. A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll found that more than eight in ten Americans are satisfied with the quality of health care they currently receive. A Zogby poll found 84 percent of the insured are satisfied with their health care.
According to the latest U.S. Census data and Gallup tracking polling, between 13 percent and 16 percent of American adults are without health care insurance. Also according to Gallup, the third largest group of uninsured are those least likely to have health care problems — 18 to 29-year-olds.
Unsurprisingly, Americans are not clamoring for a larger, government-run solution to health care. They don’t want it and they know they will have to pay for it.
Most Americans seem to agree that there could be positive steps taken to improve health care in America, starting with insurance and tort reform — solutions grounded in the private sector that don’t require more than $1 trillion of taxpayer money.
But liberal philosophers almost always believe there is a need for a government solution to problems — a solution that they will design and that all average people should be happy to follow.
Actually, last year, people WERE clamoring for healthcare reform. The Dems had been pushing that meme, and the people, as usual, bought into the manufactured crisis.
They only feel differently now, because the details of what is being proposed are there to be seen. Before, it was rainbows and unicorns. Now, they see the horrors of liberalism in all its inglory, and they are recoiling from the horror. Horror is the exactly right word.
Now, people are reassessing their own situation, and realizing that it ain’t so bad after all. Actually, now that they’ve been exposed to what the rest of the world has, they’ve come to appreciate what they have. you never know what you have, until you’ve almost lost it.
Actually, the Dems could have had this right away, but they passed the Stimulus Bill, the Omnibus, and TARP II, etc…. If they had done healthcare first, it would’ve been a done deal, and they’d've been lauded. Pubs would never have been able to muster effective opposition. No one, other than wonks, would have looked in to it in detail.
They’d've gained political capital, rather than lost it. Like true Libs, they spent all the capital they had right away on political payoffs, thinking the capital well would never run dry. It turned out to be a very shallow well, after all.
All that’s left to them now is to hijack the Census, and the 2010 elections. Other than that, they are dead in the water, out of gas, adrift.
I am hopeful that the country’s flirtation with socialism wakes up “the silent majority”. It is quite apparent the liberals are not listening now and they may not “hear” my vote in 2010 or 2012. But they have to wonder, how many former Dems like me are there? The Blue Dogs in DC may just bark at Barack and his pack but many of us will bark and work hard to help the pack pack (up and leave).
I don’t have a problem “in general” with such a politician saying *he* will make a decision…
…after all, that is the idea behind a “representative” governance (constitutional republic and all that jazz…).
Add to that the cooling-down-Senate “over” the hot-headed-House device.
Yet, it is the “I ain’t listenin’ to ya! Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah” bullheadedness/arrogance/childishness of Democrats which I find so appalling.
If these leftists succeed we will all become slaves to the government. Rise up its past time to put a stop to all this.
You dont become a Politician if you dont have at least some narcissism and now with the Narcissist in Chief in charge they will feel justified in completely ignoring what the ‘common’ people think and just continue to do what THEY WANT. Being a narcissist means never having to say sorry because your colossal ego and arrogance means you are incapable of even presuming you could possibly be wrong in the first place . Just look at the way the Obamanation acted in GATESGATE he and his fellow Black RACIST caused the problem but it ended up being the American Peoples fault and he and his Racist friend were just like they always think of themselves ‘innocent VICTIMS’. Pathetic I know but that is how a narcissists mind works.
Ever wonder just how much contempt the Obamanation and his I hate America wife hold for the voters well here is a list of the 26 PEOPLE who just look after Michelle more than any other Presidents wife in history . Hows the recession treating you Michelle sista ?????
She is served by twenty-six attendants, including a hair dresser and make-up artist.
The annual cost to taxpayers for such unprecedented attention is approximately $1,750,000 without taking into account the expense of the lavish benefit packages afforded to every attendant.
Little did American voters realize the call for “change” would result in the establishment of an Obama oligarchy.
The discovery of the additional attendants was made by D’Angelo Gore of factcheck.org and by calls to Katie McCormick Lelyyeld, Michelle Obama’s press secretary.
Mr. Gore launched his investigation of the First Lady’s staff in the wake of an article that appeared on thelastcrusade.org and Canada Free Press on July 7.
The article, which became a chain letter viewed by millions of Americans, reported that Michelle Obama requires more than twenty attendants – - more than any First Lady in U.S. History. It provided the following list of White House staff members assigned to the First Lady:
1. $172,2000 – Sher, Susan (Chief Of Staff)
2. $140,000 – Frye, Jocelyn C. (Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy And Projects For The First Lady)
3. $113,000 – Rogers, Desiree G. (Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary)
4. $102,000 – Johnston, Camille Y. (Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady)
5. $102,000 – Winter, Melissa E. (Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
6. $90,000 – Medina, David S. (Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
7. $84,000 – Lelyveld, Catherine M. (Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady)
8. $75,000 – Starkey, Frances M. (Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady)
9. $70,000 – Sanders, Trooper (Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady)
10. $65,000 – Burnough, Erinn J. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)
11. $65,000 – Reinstein, Joseph B. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)
12. $62,000 – Goodman, Jennifer R. (Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady)
13. $60,000 – Fitts, Alan O. (Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady)
14. $60,000 – Lewis, Dana M. (Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady)
15. $52,500 – Mustaphi, Semonti M. (Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady)
16. $50,000 – Jarvis, Kristen E. (Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady)
17. $45,000 – Lechtenberg, Tyler A. (Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady)
18. $45,000 – Tubman, Samantha (Deputy Associate Director, Social Office)
19. $40,000 – Boswell, Joseph J. (Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)
20. $36,000 – Armbruster, Sally M. (Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary)
21. $36,000 – Bookey, Natalie (Staff Assistant)
22. $36,000 – Jackson, Deilia A. (Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady)
Hairdressers and make up artists round off the list to 26.
Liberalism is a brain disorder.
What truly baffles me is if liberals believe, actually believe, that health insurance is a natural “right,” just like free speech or freedom of religion, then why not create a Constitutional Amendment for it and put to a national vote? If our Constitution should be rewritten to say that the Federal government must now guarantee every American health insurance, isn’t this something all of the people and the states should vote on, just like it did on Prohibition, which was also sold as something that had to be done for the national good? By the way, Prohibition was such a shining success that it had to be repealed a few years later. But at least our government recognized the error and made it right. Can we do the same thing to health care if it’s forced on to this nation without a national vote, via a back through Congressional legislation? I doubt it, and so should you.
The only thing which terrifies liberals more than the past, is the future.
This is because in each case, they see a world in which they are not in absolute control. They are obsessed with such power because ultimately, they hate, fear, and despise anyone who is not exactly like them. Such a degree of power is ultimately unobtainable, but they refuse to believe it.
Once you’ve convinced yourself that you are perfect, it’s only a short step to defining anyone who is different as not merely wrong, but evil into the bargain. (See “The Last Enemy” by H. Beam Piper.) And that justifies almost anything.
Liberals talk a lot about “humility”, but they are loathe to practice it themselves. (And why should they?- they’re perfect, remember?) As a general rule, a “liberal socialist” state is the only thing more dangerous than a theocracy for the average citizen, because while a theocrat may or may not believe he is answerable to his definition of God, a ‘progressive’ who doesn’t believe in any such thing for the most part tends to conclude that his only judge is himself. Which usually translates to, “If I want to do it, it must be right, because I am never wrong.”
Hunter S. Thompson once observed that, “Entire empires have been done in by vengeful freaks claiming a special relationship with God”.
He overlooked the even larger number of polities destroyed by even more vengeful types who believed that themselves were, in fact, gods.
clear ether
eon
That should be “they themselves” in the last sentence. Sorry.
cheers
eon
Could this be the reason that 2/3rds of Americans are unhappy with Congress? I used to enjoy hearing members of Congress talk about Bush’s poor approval rating, while thiers were normally about 5 points lower.
Congress is so beyond out of touch with the people that they should all be thrown out Dems and Reps alike.
Be reasonable, do it my way.
Liberals, I agree, hold tenaciously to the belief that they — and they alone — know what’s best for Americans. Actress Janeane Garofalo goes so far to say that conservatives (their ideological opponents) are neurologically impaired.
Moreover, in seeking to implement their Big Government “solutions,” many liberals go well beyond a (merely) socialistic approach — all the way to totalitarianism.
http://emmeffemm.com/id172.html
the democratic party is a criminal organisation.
…the congressman talks like the trolls
I have an idea for health care reform. We vote out our career politicians because we’re sick of them.
Thank you, thank you for saying so eloquently what so many of us believe and feel. Our liberal officials are completely out of sync with the public, and quite a number of our more conservative officials either also are, or they are just slowly circling the drain, seemingly helpless.
My problem with all the health care issues is that the federal government has no business mucking around with it. It should NOT be a federal issue. The federal government has perniciously grown, and like a malignant tumor, has entwined itself into everything in sight.
We know what to do about malignant tumors yet we seem to be incapable of dealing with the malignant caretakers of this fine nation. Sad indeed.
We call it narcissism or egotism when someone just thinks they know oh-so-much-more than you do. We call it snobbery when someone thinks they are oh-so-much-better than you. Both of these traits are character flaws and are mocked and derided, as they should be. However, combine these flaws with power and you start to see the roots of despotism, authoritarianism and the needless suffering they have brought upon mankind throughout history.
We must be very careful whom we elect to office. It’s clear that those who would control you don’t have your best interests at heart, either personally or nationally.
Remember, whose who crave power do not value freedom, and those who value freedom do not crave power.
If ANYTHING good comes out of the Obama administration, it is the outing of the liberal ideals for what they truly are. Liberals have mommy issues and love being wrapped up in apron strings well into their twilight years. Personal responsibility? What’s that? That’s for those “neo-cons” who stoop so low as to actually work for a living.
We co not have a representative government.
If we did, they would “represent us”.
This mess has been valuable in exposing the battlefield, and that is useful.
Which brings to mind the one-liner from some edition of the Reader’s Digest (in the 1950′s, for cryin’ out loud): “If Patrick Henry thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see it with representation.”
i had to agree with the guy who said, “just leave us alone”. the government now wants to control a little to much of our personal lives. just got a ticket on my sons truck, in my yard because it looks inoperable. when he comes back from Iraq he can drive it, but in the mean time i have to deal with it or they will tow it away, off my property. nice. its a clunker 57 chevy short bed.
The Obama-bot pledge:
“We pledge allegiance to “The One”
for the deconstruction of America,
and to the Republic, of which we destroy,
one Nation under debt,
Islamicized,
with dependency and bankruptcy for all.”
Perhaps one of our liberals-in-residence can explain to me how I went to the same universities as many of them did and had higher standardized test scores and GPA, studied the most difficult field in the humanities (Classics, where I actually had to learn Greek and Latin. You know, the same stuff Thomas Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers knew), yet can be so stupid as to be conservative/libertarian?
Liberals are a bunch of “I’ll tell you you’re smart if you tell me I’m smart”, brain-dead zombies. No wonder they have given up on the idea of objective truth. It would be too painful for them to recognize their mediocrity in the grand scheme of things.
Heraclitus once said, “One man is worth 10,000, if he be good”. By that measure, the stupidest conservative/libertarian alive is worth 10,000 leftists, at a minimum.
Or you could choose conservatism, which results in this . . .
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/potter.health.insurance/index.html
That’s why THEY tell you to think that Obama is gonna kill grandma. Wake up, people. The insurance companies and their conservative corporatists in the Republican party are not your friends. They pander to your emotions to get your money. You’re being played for patsies.
12. Paul -Indiana:
Be reasonable, do it my way.
I’m the decider.
If your arguments don’t sway your liberal representative, that’s kind of the idea.
Its probably because that representative is pursuing the mandate of the people who got him elected. That’s unfortunately the way a democracy works–the majority vote in their representative, the representative takes that as a certification of his/her platform, he/she continues along those lines in order to maintain the support of the constituency that elected them. Its been this way for a while; maybe you people have been too punch-drunk with militaristic jingoism over the past eight years to notice that the Republican President was pursuing your asinine agenda [or what his administration convinced you was your agenda], rather than wondering if the minority who didn’t vote for him were happy.
There is no ‘right’ to anything if someone else has to pay for it.
LIBERALISM: Because despite modern medicine,syphilitics abound.So do the drug-addled,the stupidly utopian, the welfare dependent,the academic crackpots,and the left-wing plutocrats who manipulate the above.
6:Pragmatist
Now you see the jobs creation stimulus in action
It’s not a million but what the heck, it’s a start.
What I don’t understand is how can they be so sure they know what is best for our future, when they almost always display a complete ignorance of history and economics?
25: Mofo Its probably because that representative is pursuing the mandate of the people who got him elected.
Not necessarily true. Our newly elected representative is taking some heat because he asserts that he is going to do what he believes is right rather than what the locals want.
(I’m paraphrasing) Our community probably has the best healthcare in the country, no exaggeration. We have a number of not for profits here and the costs, although rising
are likely not as bad as elsewhere (competition). Issues as you drive costs down are availability (especially of primary care) physicians taking new patients (among other issues). Technology wise I’d say we rank among the best…I know from personal experience. My son required
radio ablation technique/surgery for a heart condition and received it here (’99)when the procedure was fairly new.
This plan as written will likely make things worse, not better here. The thing that gets me about our neophyte congressman, is that he has already adopted the arrogant position of many of his colleagues, that he knows best.
Reform may be required, by I’m not so sure our
know it all congressman have even thought about the long term consequences, only the goal of having everyone covered. Rushing major bills like this POS through make one very suspicious.
BTW, although I don’t believe our congressman even knows what a socialist is, he commented on a local radio talk show here that yes indeed, he may very well be a socialist. So at least I know where he stands. And he did not win by a landslide that would imply the mandate that you
suggest.
Now and Then: “Wake up, people.”
That’s the problem for you lefties–the American people ARE waking up. And in case you hadn’t noticed the TEA Parties, Town Hall meetings, or the Opinion Polls, we aren’t too wild about what you libs are shoveling. We aren’t buying the Democrat Snake Oil that is Obamacare. And we’re sick and tired of the arrogant, “Smarter-than-thou” attitude oozing from our elected representatives.
It really sucks when working, tax-paying Americans–and not profesional hippie protestors–stand up against their government, huh?
I thought you would be interested in where healthcare should be moving from the perspective of the Catholic Church..
From the latest issue of America. The author is the Rev Michael Place, a theologian and past president and CEO of the Catholic Health Association and current chair of the International Federation of Catholic Health Institutions
“”In Catholic theology, access to health care is a fundamental social good, because health care is essential to human dignity; as such, healthcare is an aspect of the common good..Society and the state have a dual obligation to protect the right to health care and to provide the necessary means for its fulfillment. …We already ration health care. We just refuse to admit it. .. (We should be) evaluating all that is proposed in the light of social justice, without first question being what any proposal will do to or for the poor and vulnerable.”
Ist, do you pay out of pocket for health insurance? I pay $1000 a month now. I seen people on these boards say they get FREE insurance from their employer. ( It came out of your salary.) You could have made $12000 more last year. If you were to be taxed, say 1/2 or $6000 to pay for your families insurance would you still be ahead? It is math, you subtract 6,000 from 12,000. If your insurance is great, keep it. Please let me buy (purchase) a public plan. Moms on Medicare, works great. Far better than United Health Care aka THE LEWIN GROUP the GOP quotes all the time. (look at donations to GOP) They just paid a multimillion dollar fine for defrauding their patients. I do hope you were not one of those. As for Medicare fraud, Columbia/HCA paid the largest fine ever, that is former TN Republican Senator Bill Frists company. I know why he is against reform.
To me this is an area for government, because health care and profit are no match. Profit is about $$$, your health is about prevention, and cure. It is an oil and water thing.
Shadow: Where in your quotation is there anything about the government being involved?
And notice, the person you quoted said it was a social “good”, not a “right” as the leftoids would like so much to claim.
#24. Not bad, but remember that Bush didn’t blame the previous president for his own mistakes. Obambi always blames someone else.
#32. That one priest doesn’t speak for all Catholic priests. Check this out…http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/07/15/obama-jonathan-morris-health-care-father/
“health care is essential to human dignity”
Ha! Ever been humiliated by lying on your back with your feet up in stirrups for a pap smear only to get an false abnormal result and unnecessary biopsies and permanent trauma to your cervix? The USA is the worst when it comes to unnecessary smears on healthy women.
What a racket.
“37. Solarisus: The USA is the worst when it comes to unnecessary smears on healthy women.”
No doubt, just ask Sarah Palin. But it is what one comes to expect from liberals.
How soon they forget: “Keep your Laws OFF MY BODY!”
Ironically, Roe v. Wade is the antidote to this mess. Either that or it gets overturned based on the precedent set by the BHmO System.
But I digress…
Looks like everyone missed Eric Massa’s amazing and revealing statement the other day. While pandering to a gang of Netroots, he pulled an “Obama” and blurted out the following:
Adamantly. Against the interests of *MY* district.
This didn’t even fly in the roomful of useful idiots he was addressing.
Massa’s attitude (emblematic of “D-NY”) is a symptom of a government that is comprised entirely of the political elite, by the political elite, for the sole benefit of the political elite. In essence, he’s telling his constituents: “Shut up. You’re too stupid to know what’s best for you. I know what’s best for you.”
If there’s a root cause for our utterly broken government, it’s the fact that we tolerate assclowns like this guy to “represent” us.
…believes he knows more facts than his constituents, and the little people will be better off and much happier once his plans for making the world a better place are up and running.
This attitude absolutely glaringly obvious in many of the townhall confrontations I’ve seen on video and television.
Dingell, Tim Bishop, Kathleen Sebelius…others (Arlen Specter at least pretended to be listening to the guy who wouldn’t go away…)
Quite shocking, the vainglory & arrogance of many of our servants in DC.
I was really disheartened when I read that story about Sen. Cardin, as he represents ME (well, not really) in the Senate. Cardin has spent his entire adult life as an elected representative of some sort or another in Maryland. Never had a real job that I know of, nor did he ever have to worry about meeting a payroll. That’s part of the problem. We have created this well-insulated class of officials don’t really give a damn what their constituents think or want. They live a life of ease with guaranteed fat retirements and are able to line their nests in way very few American can do. Every now and then they have to come down from the mountaintop to mingle with – “those people” – the ones who were quick to join the “well-dressed angry mob” and stand up to the high and mighty. And they find it offensive. Term limits of course, will never happen. Why would they willingly give up a vaunted position and all the perks that go with it? I hope voters remember the way they have been treated, the names they have been called and the rude and obnoxious way their elected officials are acting. The only way to get rid of them is to vote them out of office. They all need an abrupt descent back to the real world. Get real jobs. Get your greedy faces out of the public trough. We’re sick of you.
@6. Pragmatist: – 1. $172,2000 – Sher, Susan (Chief Of Staff)
Why does someone who has NO OFFICIAL DUTIES WHATSOEVER need a “Chief of Staff”, let alone 25 additional flunkies? Did Laura Bush have a “Chief of Staff” among her 17 gentlemen and ladies in waiting? Is this just a question of royalty needing a court?
It’s not just “liberals” (actually, leftists) it’s the entire political class who presume to know what’s best for the Outer Party and the Proles.
too smart to care: Where in the world did you get the figure $6,000.00 through your taxes. Why do you think Health Care costs would go down? In my province in Canada, we pay $433.00 PER PERSON through our taxes and our working people pay another $150 or so a month for drug and dental coverage. Family of 4 totals 1900.00 A MONTH. So sounds like you are getting a good deal at a $1,000.00. They poll us up here and everyone likes the “free” health care, but very few here know what they pay. There has never been a study I can find where the true costs of public, private has been made.
Having said that, the US needs to pass something that deals with pre-existing conditions and tort-reform.
37. Solarisus,
-Not to mention the Gardasil Scam being perpetrated on young girls.
~
38. Fantom:
“No doubt, just ask Sarah Palin. But it is what one comes to expect from liberals.”
LOL! Good seque!
~
39. goy:
“Ironically, Roe v. Wade is the antidote to this mess. Either that or it gets overturned based on the precedent set by the BHmO System.”
Hmm. Interesting perspective…!
“Looks like everyone missed Eric Massa’s amazing and revealing statement the other day.”
Yep. I missed that. Thank you. What a pompous @sshat!
Watching Fox News yesterday, with Meaghan Kelly and she had on some representative of Obama’s Health Care, didn’t catch his name. The condescension was beyond anything I have witnessed. He was the epitome of what this column was about – the elites run government, now they don’t even try to hide their distaste for the “unwashed masses”.
Said if the republicans would quit lying and listen to the President, everyone would understand how wonderful this bill was – even though the President doesn’t seem to know anything about it and never says what is in it. I was horrified listening to his man. Must get his name.
Pragmatist, Michelle Obama also has a fulltime make-up and hair person.
(maybe that’s 2 separate people or #14 on your list: $60,000 – Lewis, Dana M. (Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady)
Hell, bill & hillary conducted themselves as king & queen. It seems a democrat tradition to spend lavishly and squander the nation’s resources when these holier than thou types (“do as I say, not as I do”) occupy the White House.
So not only are we now all racist, we’re all Catholic? Thanks for the info Cartoon Character. (I wonder if we all like chunky peanut butter too? I hope The Cartoon Character will let us know before lunch.)
As long as those who claim superior knowledge could not be troubled with people who see things differently, the drama
of life will continue to have its bone-headed moments.
Folks, it is largely about this: why rely on Antonio Gramsci as much as people do, and thereby reject what C.S. Lewis,
Mortimer Adler and others say, but at other times place what C.S. Lewis, Mortimer Adler and others have to say as the highest priority.
Is it any wonder that the human race is as screwed up as it is?
Vote Zippy out in ’12 and you also get rid of Michelle, her mom, the kids and those 26 other free loading groupies. That’s government waste reduction you can believe in.
If I wanted to be represented by Nancy Pelosi, I’d move to her district. I have a strong suspicion that more than one D-NY freshman congressman is not going to make his sophomore term.
If I hated my children and wanted to wreck their lives, I’d join AARP. I won’t do that, even if it costs me money to forego their discounts. (I don’t know or care, my principles are worth more than the money.)
The government created the healthcare mess, starting in WWII when they allowed employers to provide coverage in lieu of wage increases. They’ve outlawed meaningful competition in NY under the guise of insurance regulation or mandated coverage. Yeah, sure, these are just the people to fix the fiasco they have made. I have this bridge…
Shadow, this man does not “represent the church”, The Church’s stands on socialism, communism and other forms of political collectivism, and it firm admonishment against clergy being involved in such is clearly are articulated in many pronouncements from the Holy See spanning decades. Cherry picking the babbling of some errant liberal Democrat American priest from Chicago, of all places, and making him the voice of Catholicism is wholly dishonest and dishonorable of you. He is no such thing. The tip off here is the comment about “social justice”. If you knew anything about the matter you would know that there were rather severe chastisements of clergy involving themselves with “liberation theology” and similar such attempt of the Left to co-opt Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. The current pope and his immediate predecessor had hideous personal experiences with collectivist ideology and both have stood firmly against socialism, communism and fascism. I know you would just as soon blot out of memory the fate of your Soviet coreligionists, but even you cannot not evade the strong roll the Church plated in toppling Russian Communism.
Apparently, you know little about Roman Chatholicism and the many currents and discussions within it. Please stop pretending that you do.
You are guilty of the typical cherry picking we see out of the Left.
Note that Rev. Place is a rather political priest, and quite obviously of a left wing, Democrat bent:
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20090508/REG/305089983
and note as well that he is involved with government relations in the Chicago area. Finally, note that these are local institutions of which he is associated with, and not some sort of major organizations of the Church tasked with either setting or promulgating official Church policy, opinion or doctrine. (But then those fancy titles and organization names generally fool you leftists, don;t they). Also note that he was recently canned.
He is in fact stepping out of his role as a priest here, and should be ashamed of himself. I believe i will ask my Arch-Bishop to inform his Arch-bishop of his shenanigans.
And of course, he is quite wrong, no one is denied medical service if they can pay for it, or if it the problem is catastrophic and they arrive at am emergency center. The major source of rationing is within government programs. It is extremely dishonest to say that because some (mostly government) programs do ration, that our system as a whole rations medical care as SOP. This is most profoundly untrue. You cannot get it right, ever, can you Shadow? Just constant regurgitation of what you liberal masters tell you, cast in this sophomoric, supercilious, huffy psuedo-intellectual prose of yours. Wrong again, Shadow, and on all counts.
The Church’s stands on socialism, communism and other forms of political collectivism, and it firm admonishment against clergy being involved in such is clearly are articulated in many pronouncements from the Holy See spanning decades.==
The Church’s stands on socialism, communism and other forms of political collectivism, and itS firm admonishment against clergy being involved in such is clearly articulated in many pronouncements from the Holy See spanning decades.
Liberals, Leftists, & other Statists remind me the Know-it-All; they think they know it all when they know nothing. In their blind arrogance, they commit to the same mistakes other Marxists have tried before & fail miserably. Yet these liberals cannot see their own errors. I think this is why many logical arguments are lost to them. They simply believe they are right & you are wrong. Period. I have a better time talking to my dog than a liberal.
Sorry, but when you can’t figure out all on your own that it’s an extremely stupid idea to bring a loaded assault rifle to a crowded public forum with the President, then clearly someone needs to tell you what’s best for you, because you obviously don’t.
The real underlying question is: who is in control? That is, who should actually make the decisions for what your health care dollars purchase?
The federal government could control with either single-payer or co-op plans, and right now wants to.
The state governments could control with their own single-payer and co-op plans, and many already do. (Except for Colorado, I think they’re all bankrupting their respective states, too.)
Your employer could control with his or her choice of which health plan he wants to partially pay for and provide to his employees — and most do.
But why shouldn’t you decide yourself? The best rationing plan is the one you control — where YOU decide what you want your money to cover, on an individual basis. That system is best addressed by a high-deductible catastrophic health plan, supplemented by a medical savings account — the exact sort of plan the CEO of Whole Foods uses for his employees, and the exact sort of plan that the Obama health care bill will rule out by over-requiring what each health insurance company MUST cover.
Combine MSA/catastrophic plans with a bill that protects ordinary Americans via tort reform, increased competition among insurers (via state deregulation), and easy portability in your health care coverage (so you keep your insurance if you lose your job), and you address most of the issues. Fill the gaps by partially or fully funding such plans for low-income people — at a much lower cost than currently required by Medicaid and the SCHIPs. Find a fair way to deal with people who drop coverage then get sick and need coverage. Turn MSAs into an asset, like a college fund, that you can draw on if they are over 100% funded. You wind up with a 20-page bill that puts your health care responsibilities into your hands — allowing you to self-ration your health care by making sensible financial choices that work for you.
What the heck is so hard about that concept overall that liberals don’t get it?
The twin vanities – moral vanity, and intellectual vanity. Either one, by itself, is defeatable. The combination is intoxicating and mutually reinforcing.
I think we’re seeing a lot more of this in politics these days because so many fewer people are going into religious vocations. That’s where self-aggrandizing sanctimonious narcissists used to go, where they wouldn’t bother the rest of us. Now they’re all out to “change the world”. The person who used to just be an annoying priest is now a totalitarian community organizer. We have to recognize that they must be judged by their actions and not their rhetoric.
[Godwin alert] Der Fuhrer saw himself as a noble servant of the cause. In his mind, he gave up a brilliant career in art in order to selflessly serve the German people. Beware the selfless narcissist. They’re the most dangerous people on earth.
Breathtaking video: “Dem wants to eliminate private health insurance altogether”
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/18/video-dem-wants-to-eliminate-private-health-insurance-altogether/
#33 “To me this is an area for government, because health care and profit are no match. Profit is about $$$, your health is about prevention, and cure. It is an oil and water thing.”
I believe you couldn’t be more wrong. Making it a government program without profit motive and especially competition gives an inferior product that is more expensive.
The real problem it that there isn’t enough competition between insurance companies there isn’t enough transparency in what they provide at what cost and not enough choice in picking one. Reform should be aimed at just those problems.
When profit is dependent on providing the best care at the best price they we will see the best of both worlds.
A government program will give us whatever is best for the bureaucrats in charge of the program.
Climbing over the 280 million for whom healthcare is fine to “help” the “47 million uninsured” is really pretty arrogant. But having ruined public schools and the courts (the rich have fled to private schools and private judging), and allowed unrestricted immogration, the big dreamers want to use our money to “do” health care.
Is it fair to do? No. 12 million of the “47 million uninsured” are illegals who should not be riding on a a US health care program except for emergency or contagious disase care. The remainder are generally making 50,000 or more a year who choose vacations and meals out over health insurance (“I’m young and don’t need it”), or have some legitimate reason they canont get it (pre-exising condition).
Are there peoplpe who need special care? Yes. For those US citizens suffering catastrophic health problems (cancer, kidney failure etc), and who cannot get insurance, we ought to have a govt program. They are like a city hit with a tornado: an individual disaster area.
But we do not need to destroy a perfectly good system –deveoped over 200 plus years–to benefit the illegals, the indolent or the unfortunate.
Adding 47 million people and “free” health care is also going to explode costs as it did in the UK and in Tennesee. The tennCare program is now in serious trouble as a national program will be in no time: look at the Post Office, medicare and Medicaid.
It will also dampen innovation: so much money will be needed for “basic” care as expanded to cover braces, cosmetic surgery, etc., that spending for innovative drugs and equipment will slow then cease–as in the UK.
The rich will keep their clinics and ability to get quality healthcare, just as they kept private schools, out of court resolutions of lawsuits and private jets. The big loser will be the middle class–again.
The politicians will keep their special healthcare plans–they are not going to join us in public care.
The Catholic church isn’t going to join us either: I am catholic and know that no cardinal, bishop or pope is going to renounce their care programs.
But we don’t know what’s good for us: ask any reporter or senator.
Goy
I’ll preface this by saying that I don’t care much for insurance companies, but having had 3 different carriers over the last 6 years the coverage has been pretty consistent.
I don’t like the idea of giving more potential power to the federal government, even if the short term goals look attractive.
Eric Massa is a first termer as is Dan Maffei in NY. Both upstate democrats. I personally know a couple Dem politicians and they are not bad people, and are well intentioned so I try to avoid generalizing.
My point…Massa’s comments made Fox news, not the local papers (at least as far as I could tell). To me he’s a talking points are us candidate, but I don’t believe he likes the bill as stands, but based on his rhetoric…
Stay tuned…he has two town hall meetings scheduled with in a week. I doubt you’ll see/hear of too much rabble rousing, but this area is largely republican . Unfortunately NYC carries the state in most matters including corruption but it’s all relative.
‘Sorry, but when you can’t figure out all on your own that it’s an extremely stupid idea to bring a loaded assault rifle to a crowded public forum with the President, then clearly someone needs to tell you what’s best for you, because you obviously don’t.’
1: Police determined (asked politely as it’s Arizona where they take the rights of the citizens seriously) whether the rifle was on safety. The gentleman indicated that the rifle was on safety. No one asked whether it was loaded. The fact that there was a magazine in the rifle is why the MSM says the rifle was loaded. The fact that there was a magazine in the rifle does not mean that it was loaded. Therefore, no one knows whether the rifle was loaded, because no one had the right to ask.
2: It was not an AK47 as is being reported in many places. It was an AR15. AR15′s require pulling the trigger to fire each bullet and will not operate on automatic. ergo – not an assault rifle.
3: The gentleman was across the street, and not in any crowed public forum with the president by any stretch.
4: Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.
“In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to,” Donovan said. “They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon.”
You might try getting your information from accurate sources.
BTW:
For the racist merchants, to you the gentleman was an African-American.
However, he identified himself only as an American.
Which works for me.
I still want to know how many town hall attendees have gone with hand-printed signs that read: “KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF MY BODY!!!”
It’s gotta happen.
The Substantive Due Process reasoning in Roe v. Wade specifically finds that the relationship between doctor and patient can’t be legislated. Says so right there in the decision.
The End
#51 Mongoose – Really nice rebuttal. Thorough evisceration.
goy, you’re absolutely right. Liberals have no sense of irony. Besides that, we can ban abortion another way- remove the jurisdiction of Roe v. Wade over abortion by declaring the fetus to be a person entitled to equal protection under the law, per the 14th Amendment. Roe would still stand as a protection against government intrusion into health care, but abortion would be illegal because Roe specifically concedes that the right to privacy does not trump a victim’s 14th Amendment rights, and would thus make abortion a criminal conspiracy, rather than a medical issue.
This is the representation we have in Congress: Rep. Eric Massa.
Transcript:
MASSA: I’m not going to vote for 3200 as it’s currently written. Step one, I will vote for a single payer option or a bill that does have a medicare coupled public option, which we don’t have right now. If my town hall meetings turn into the same media frenzies and ridiculousness, because every time that happens we lose, We lose another three million people in America. They see that happening and negate us.
PARTICIPANT: It changes America.
MASSA: Every time that occurs. So what happens in my town hall meetings frankly is important, because I am in one of the most right wing Republican districts in the country, and I’m not asking you guys to go back to wherever and send people to me. This is a generic statement of what can I do? Well that’s one thing we can do.
PARTICIPANT: So if we got your meetings to sixty forty, you’d vote…and there was single payer in a bill you would vote for it?
MASSA: Oh absolutely I would vote for single payer.
PARTICIPANT: If there was sixty forty sentiment in the room?
MASSA: Listen, I tell every audience I’m in favor of single payer.
PARTICIPANT: If there was eighty twenty in the room?
MASSA: If there was a single payer bill?
PARTICIPANT: And there was a single payer….
MASSA: I will vote for the single payer bill.
PARTICIPANT: Even if it meant you were being voted out of office?
MASSA: I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I am doing is going to be helpful.
(inaudible participants’ comments regarding the “interests” of the district statement from Mr. Massa)
Massa: I will vote against their opinion if I actually believe it will help them.
@54.
“it’s an extremely stupid idea to bring a loaded assault rifle to a crowded public forum with the President”
I haven’t heard of anythign like that. Do you have some reference?
I’ve heard of the people in Phoenix, but they don’t fit your description.
So… anything to back up your statement, or are you just another liberal fearmonger using hyperbole to insult your betters?
“Brent Littlefield is a Republican strategist.”
And his post is the post of a Republican strategist.
#22: “Perhaps one of our liberals-in-residence can explain to me how I went to the same universities as many of them did … yet can be so stupid as to be conservative/libertarian?”
Great question! But there are some mysteries we just have to live with.
Goy: Looks like we linked the same video, except mine is in moderation limbo at the moment. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who saw this! This video needs to go viral.
And please, don’t give me the “newbie” excuse for Massa’s condescending attitude. For some of these guys, their ego is like air to them.
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices – 545 human beings out of the 235 million – are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
Food for thought. Kind of obviates the whole debate.
As accurate as when it was written when Tip O’Neill was speaker of the house.
And this is the crowd that claims to know what’s best for you ?
Mark Twain had it sussed out well over a century ago:
“No man’s life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.”
“There is no distinctly native American criminal class…save Congress.”
“Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.”
@68. Moogie: – Looks like we linked the same video…
Yeah. As I’ve watched that a couple times, what infuriates me the most about it – because it’s a facet of all politicians, not just Ds – is how very hard he works to convince those in earshot just how far under the bus he’s willing to throw his constituents in order to garner their support.
Never once does it enter this clown’s mind who elected him, or the fact that lowered health care costs – not a “public option” – would be in their best interests.
Massa: I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I am doing is going to be helpful…I will vote against their opinion if I actually believe it will help them.
While this Useless Idiot apparently doesn’t know what the word “representative” means in his title.
“I thought you would be interested in where healthcare should be moving from the perspective of the Catholic Church.”
Ah, yes, liberals love to turn to religion when they think it makes an argument for them. At all other times it’s just stupid things superstitious people believe.
The Catholic Church only continues to exist because its constituents give it donations. Thus, the Catholic Church is, itself, reliant on the free market.
Speaking in grandiose terms about how health care is a ‘right’ or ‘moral obligation’ solves nothing. The fact is that the free market does a better job of providing the best health care to the most people. That is the issue. Any deviance from that point is simply the pro-Socialist trying to dodge by retreating to Alinsky-esque tactics and emotional haranguing.
“‘it’s an extremely stupid idea to bring a loaded assault rifle to a crowded public forum with the President’
I haven’t heard of anythign like that. Do you have some reference”
That’s the new lefty talking point: two groups were seen in public with weapons. One was a man with a legal carry permit. The other was a group demonstrating. Both were within the law and were monitored by the Secret Service who stated clearly that neither was anything worth worrying about.
These dishonest tactics are all the left has now that their attempt to Socialize the nation has been completely exposed. Don’t fall into the trap. Make them argue on merits, and they’re lost.
71:tanstaafl
You’re right. This guy is pretty arrogant. Ex Army (Colonel maybe). Ran on an anti Bush platform basically — alot of diatribe about the handling of Iraq which got the cathartic vote out.
The town meeting on Monday is in a relatively conservative town hall not too far from me actually. If I can get in I’ll provide some anecdotal observations.
The thing that slays me is that he didn’t win his election by much. lost the first go round in ’06, and yet still has this attitude…
BTW again, when the local liberal talk show host proclaimed that he himself was a socialist because that meant caring for the ‘peoples’ Massa fell in lockstep (leveraging his market demographic for votes no doubt). who would have believed liberals have the market cornered on virtue…
#62. goy has a point. The constitution does not support this kind of legislation.
Congress can legislate on post offices, citizenship, military, law enforcement, trade agreements, roads, taxes, banking, patents. And that’s about it. Everything else is up to the states.
Anybody more knowledegable in this area. Feel free to explain exactly where the Constitution grants Congress the right to legislate on peoples right to free healthcare.
And why would it even be desirable to do this from Washington instead of letting the States do it themselves like Massachussets.
I wonder if the supreme court actually reads the words in constitution? And do they care?
71. tanstaafl: “While this Useless Idiot apparently doesn’t know what the word “representative” means in his title.”
Apparently, he seems to know better than you. This is not a pure Democracy. It is a Representative Democracy. You elect leaders to make decisions on your behalf.
If you think that the role of elected leaders is to do exactly what you want all the time, clearly you don’t have a firm handle on how our Founding Fathers thought and why they created our electoral system the way they did.
They were very keen to prevent uneducated mobs like, say, oh, I dunno, a bunch of uninformed citizens screaming “keep your government hands off my Medicare!” from having direct control on the lawmaking process because it would be a total cluster**** disaster.
A representative has every right to make decisions that you do not agree with, even if he is of your party. If he thinks passing a certain law would be good for his state based upon hundreds of pages of research he has read, but you oppose it because of some special segment you saw on Hannity where he criticized the proposed law, your elected representative does not have to accept your opinion over his own when his is clearly more complete than yours.
In America, our elected officials have the ability to vote with their brains and hopefully their consciences, and not according to the whims of the angry mob.
HEALTH and LIVES ENDANGERED by the Unethical
British Newspaper – http://WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America By Jo Macfarlane
15th August 2009
A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.
The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.
It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.
GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.
The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.
It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when:
* More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu.
* 500 cases of GBS were detected.
One senior neurologist said last night: ‘I would not have the swine
flu jab because of the GBS risk.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206807/Swine-flu-jab-link-killer-nerve-disease-Leaked-letter-reveals-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html
@75. JL: – The constitution does not support this kind of legislation. … Feel free to explain exactly where the Constitution grants Congress the right to legislate on peoples right to free healthcare.
Yes. I’d very much love to read the rationale – although the Constitution doesn’t grant any rights, per se, to Congress (I know what you meant, but it’s an important distinction).
FDR learned all this the hard way back in the ’30s. I forget the percentage, but a huge portion of his so-called “New Deal” was REPEALED after it was deemed unconstitutional by the courts – including HIS “National Recovery Act” (there’s a factoid not taught in most schools today).
FDR’s response, rather than live with the decision, was to attempt to pack the SCOTUS with justices sympathetic to socialist ideology. That attempt also went down in flames.
To paraphrase my social studies teacher, Mr. Clemens: History may not repeat, exactly, but it does tend to rhyme.
@76. Krull: – If you think that the role of elected leaders is to do exactly what you want all the time, clearly you don’t have a firm handle on how our Founding Fathers thought…
And clearly, you don’t have any handle on what’s meant – let alone implied – by the statement “I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district…”.
Representatives are elected TO REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, not to vote according to partisan ideology based on some self-righteous notion that they know what’s best for them. Massa unabashedly proclaimed that he intends to do the latter, and doesn’t care one tiny bit what’s in the best interests of his constituents.
I know six people that are clammering for gov.
run hralth care, because healthcare is broken.
They are all covered by union run health plans.
Can one point out to them that the gov. run plan
will be thier broken plan in spades? No, because
the very people running the unions are telling them about the roses the gov. plan will bring.
Some people are very stupid.
Krull
While you may be right about our esteemed legislator’s’ right to vote as he pleases,
you make me laugh with your insinuation that
the good Congressman is privy to more data and wisdom than his constituents. Especially in an area where the current model is working fairly well all things considered and where most of the industry and jobs are where, I’ll give you a hint, rhymes with wealthcare.
You should consider the communities represented before making sweeping generalizations.
This is a trojan horse bill as written. Any forward thinking person should be very concerned about the incremental consolidation of power (information,wealth,enforcement) we are witnessing. As the saying goes
who polices the police? And who governs the government?
This is not a Democrat only issue. This is an America issue.
I’m sure I’ll get a cute response or a derogatory comment now…be creative.
Brent Littlefield is the latest to point out this liberal phenomenon.
One has to have a certain arrogance to beleive that he or she is intellectually positioned to micromanage the lives of others for the benefit of society and that they possess the knowledge to do so via government intervention. The compulsion to do this is founded on a fundamental belief that your fellow citizen is incapable of effectively running their affairs and that the liberal is better informed to do so. That is what I mean by arrogance.
Here’s another way of putting it:
Liberals feel compelled to give others a personally conducted tour through life.
There is a certain element of insecurity which is manifested when one believes he or she must order the daily affairs of others or the world isn’t right.
Liberals don’t offer advice, they mandate or ridicule standards of behavior which they often exempt themselves from. Obamacare is the latest example of exemption; it won’t apply to Congress or other government employees. Other recent examples include engineering Congressional pay raises while attacking private employer pay and ridiculing executive use of private aircraft while they themselves use the same type of aircraft for their junkets and attempt to buy even more of the planes at our expense.
“Do as I say, not as I do” “What is good for me is not necessarily good for thee.”
There lurks a goodly amount of hypocrisy just under the surface of your garden variety liberal; and by the way there are more than a few Republicans who fit the definition and act accordingly.
http://strongerthandeathhq.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/could-it-be-the-left-are-the-un-americans/
Samizdat: “The compulsion to do this is founded on a fundamental belief that your fellow citizen is incapable of effectively running their affairs and that the liberal is better informed to do so. That is what I mean by arrogance.”
And is this arrogance not at the core of the paradox that is modern liberalism/leftism?
1. We shall grant that the people are intelligent enough to vote for the best candidate.
2. We shall not grant the people are intelligent enough to live their own lives without our intervention, in which case we will not listen to their opinions and will select what we deem to be in their best interests.
Actually, this is one of many examples of the dichotomy of liberalism.
Ah, liberals: can’t live with ‘em, can’t live with ‘em.
Pragmatist–now we are getting to some real waste in government. We the people need our money back! A refund! The people who are doing Michelle’s hair and make-up, they need to be replaced. And whoever dresses her should be voted off the continent. I tried to let it go but I couldn’t.
Federalist 52, (Hamilton or Madison) on the relationship between a member of the federal house of representatives & his constituents:
The Founders set up a scheme of representation as “a substitute for a meeting of the citizens in person”
Representatives have a short tenure of 2 years so if they don’t representtheir constituents, then said constituents vote them out”…would so far extend the influence of the people over their representatives as to satisfy us that biennial elections, under the federal system, cannot possibly be dangerous to the requisite dependence of the House of Representatives on their constituents.”
Elected representatives aren’t free to unilaterally decide what they think is best, they are bound to their constituents…”From these facts it appears that the greatest frequency of elections which has been deemed necessary in that kingdom, for binding the representatives to their constituents…”
Eric Massa, about whom I know nothing and want to know even less, will hopefully have a very short stay in the US house of representatives. His statements are an indication that he is more brain dead than most of his conferees.
krull gives away any chance of being taken seriously when he characterizes the millions upon millions of Americans who find this administration’s power grabs egregious and un-constitutional as an “angry mob”
“Every time you talk to me you’re ten percent smarter than before. So I just add ten percent on to what all the dummies charge for nothing.” – Albert Grossman
Bob Dylan’s Deceased manager. See Bob Dylan in Mainstream Media. Connect the dots.
Bob Dylan is scheduled to die when?
And who is lobbying for his office when it becomes vacant on the Supreme Court of American Culture?
Discuss…
#78 goy
What does this sentence mean?
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
“Abraham Lincoln famously said “government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” For our philosophically liberal leaders in government, “for the people” will suffice.”
The Democrat party has many times shown its true colors, fallen from grace, and then revived itself with blatant fear mongering. Isn’t it time that the American public refuse to allow this party to slither back up to national respectability after this latest power grab? Isn’t it time that the public recognizes this party for what it really is?
Whether led by a white man on a black horse or a black man on a white horse, the democrat party has never abandoned its roots as the party of slavery, social stratification, anti-industrialization, and a belief in rule by nobility rather than rule by the people. Whether fostering secession to retain control of its slaves or fostering 4000 abortions a day to limit the numbers of those it sees as unfit, the intrinsic nature of the democrat party hasn’t changed. One and a half centuries of these people being able to hold their heads up in public and control a national political party is more than enough.
Rather than sliding back into the rut of politics as usual once the current storm has passed, the American public needs make sure that the democrat party withers and dies. The democrat victory in the last presidential election needs to be the final act in a protracted democrat suicide attempt that started with the nomination of George McGovern many years ago. This country has been held back long enough by the party that Jefferson Davis, Karl Marx, and Fredrick Nietzsche, would all feel comfortable in. Unless and until the public sheds the democrat leech, it cannot move beyond the failed democrat policies of the 1850s, much less into the twenty-first century.
Regards
I’m satisfied with Massa’s response to the criticism…I will likely go to his next town meeting, but based on what he’s said to date, he has a reasonable explanation for his comments. If he gets strongarmed by the party I’ll be less impressed.
#6. Nice try, but they need more help. [LOL]
“(Liberals) We know what’s best for you…..” Isn’t that the same line used by the anti-abortion lobby when it comes to family planning? And those citizens are supposedly conservatives??
#72 Atheist/Conservative: “the free market does a better job of providing the best health care to the most people…..” Ahhh. But there is a big catch here. According to a 2008 study by the American Medical Association and recently covered in Business Week magazine, either 1 or 2 insurance companies control more than 70% of the health insurance market in over 20 states.
I’m not an advocate of government health care, altho the co-op proposal seems to have some merit. But can someone tell me how these monopoly and oligopoly situations in so many states constitutes the “free market.”
According to Yahoo! News today, the Dems have given in on taxation of employer health benefits and placing restrictions on drug companies. Sounds like business as usual to me; reminds me of the Bush/Cheney restrictions on the Medicare program asking for bids on provision of the drug benefit.
Also have to wonder where you anti-reform guys stand concerning Sarah Palin’s continuing lies about the so-called “death panels” that don’t exist? Yep, lots of fast & loose talk on both sides.
The History of Radical Socialism —> Marxism .
“You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”*
* Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005
The Radical Socialist —-> Marxist Gold is to make things better by always making them far worst in the name of Equal Justice ,
A loaf of Bread to a man who has baskets of Bread and Cabinets full is meaningless but a thin slice of Bread to a man than has not eaten in a week is God given and he beholds he giver as his Savior .
Never knowing his Earthy Savior made him Hungry and in deep need for life its self .
State Controlled health is no different . The Carbon Credit tax would be far worse …. Too many Green Pigs at the money Troff .
Just look at the Post Office , AMTRAC , Medicare and Medicad , Fanny and Freedy and the VA .
It has been reported by a PHD Professor from England at the Kennedy Center at Harvard that 22 to 30 % of all Health care is a fraud and a Felony …. We are talking well over a ”Trillion dollars “‘ or more !
Hence we have how Socialism ———> Marxist was born in the name of equal Justice . The Lie of all Lies ever .
Yet they always turn Wonderful Forrest into a deserts. Very Productive Farmland and Orchards into dust bowls .
Pastures of Green Grass with fatten Animals into a starvation camps . Where those left alive grub for roots .
We are seeing far leftist Green Addicts trying Stop and completely destroy all of our ”current ” proven Energy needs for a word called ‘Alternatives” yet there has not been one to date no matter how expensive that works for more than 1.4 % of our Energy needs .
This is about Socialist Government Control not energy in the name of Green . Since there has not been one Green Job to date since it was announced 7 months ago .
We have seen Individualism , Democracy and Freedoms beaten down by the none thinking Collectivism with complete Control by a very few in the shadows who all had much .
We have seem Radial Socialist —-> Marxist own everything and produce nothing but fear, war ,death, destruction Millions in Poverty and life long hunger .
We have seen Socialist , Unions , SEIU , The State controlled Media Lie , demand , call us names , Mock , Castigate , honorable Christian and good conservative average American people .
As well as Curst God and Us as well while praising em-oral bad behavior , our Enemies , Terrorist rights ? Thugs –>bad Unions , evil Community Org. SEIU , The Color of CHANGE , George Soros , ACORN , The Black Panthers , all nothing but Liars .
We have seen them Praise the NT Times, CNN , PBS ,,NBC under Obama and his Chicago Thugs that strongly compared to Pravada under Stalin and the KGB .
We have seen very Productive Plants turned into darken closed doors .
We have seen bright Eyes Ambitious very smart Children never smile again and turned into wards of the State or working for the state to survive .
We have seen those that spoke against their Evil Tyranny Imprisoned , murdered or simply disappear or their emails checked by this white house without a word coming from the ACLU or Human rights people .
We have seen very Successful highly skilled hard working people and Families , mocked , treated badly , shammed , called Greedy Capitalist while those calling them names did little work and demanded being cared for by the state .
They shouted that Capitalist didn’t pay enough in Taxes when they themselves paid no or if any taxes at all .
The State always wanted to own those Socialist made to order radicals since they were nothing more than puppets of their State until they breathe no more .
We have seen this long dark circle of Socialism and then Marxism never changing only to raise it ugly head here in America .
In the name of our brave Fore Fathers and God we much stand Tall .
Our Fore Fathers repeatedly warned us said that We would Face other Lord George’s and our leaders in Government wanting too much power … Just not here and now by our own Media President and this Congress .
If you listen to liberal Democrats on television, what you see is pure arrogance. They call ordinary americans stupid, un-american and evil-mongers, with no consequence from the media.
How people like John Murtha, Harry Reid, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd get re-elected is beyond comprehension. They exude arrogance.
And then you have the always arrogant James Carville in his book that nobody bought, suggesting 40 years of Democrat rule. He may want to consider removing the zero from that particular prediction.
#92. “(Liberals) We know what’s best for you…..” Isn’t that the same line used by the anti-abortion lobby when it comes to family planning? And those citizens are supposedly conservatives??
====================================================
Not exactly. We are proposing what’s best for the baby.
I’m satisfied with Massa’s response to the criticism…I will likely go to his next town meeting, but based on what he’s said to date, he has a reasonable explanation for his comments.
Gee, Bear, you force me to learn more about this guy.
After looking around his permanent website (seems a rather self-aggrandizing place) all I can find (not at the website) in the way of “explanation” for his remarks is this…a vague parallel with a Republican who voted nay on the authorization of use of force in Iraq.
“People want an independent congressman as long as they’re independent in the way they like,” Massa told reporters Tuesday, adding that his “personal political hero,” former Rep. Amo Houghton, a Republican, voted against the Iraq war in spite of the wishes of many around him.”
In the video, where Massa is apparently kissing up to some “net roots”, he seems to echo krull’s view that townhalls are simply angry mobs.
Seems like a Grade A dork to me
In June 2006, a poll showed that a majority of Americans wanted a withdrawal plan from Iraq:
“WASHINGTON — A majority of Americans say Congress should pass a resolution that outlines a plan for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday. Half of those surveyed would like all U.S. forces out within 12 months. ”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-06-26-iraq-poll_x.htm
And in August 2006, what was President Bush’s answer to this majority of Americans pleading with their leader to govern according to the will of the people?
“WASHINGTON — Citing Iraq as a key example of U.S. resolve in “a global war” on terror, President Bush said Monday there would be no quick U.S. exit despite the strain of the war on American society.
“If we ever give up the desire to help people who want to live in a free society, we will have lost our soul as a nation,” Bush said.”
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/21/bush/index.html
So apparently, according to you nutcases, when a president defies the will of very vocal majority of 61% of the American populace, no problem, because we’re at war, and during a war, you just can’t question the president or the government. If you do, you’re betraying the troops.
But when a president defies a small but vocal minority of angry delusional citizens from the bible belt that thinks Obama is the antichrist, clearly the president is a tyrannical fascist for not taking them seriously.
And funny side note: when Bush spoke those words in 2006, that giving up the desire to help foreign people achieve freedom would be tantamount to “losing our soul as a nation”, American forces, under orders from the White House, were at that time brutally torturing Iraqis, and had been since 2002.
“According to a 2008 study by the American Medical Association and recently covered in Business Week magazine, either 1 or 2 insurance companies control more than 70% of the health insurance market in over 20 states.”
The inherent fallacy in the debate over health care is that people arguing for greater government control assert that we HAVE a free market, when we don’t. We have an incredibly regulated market. And it can very easily be shown that the regulation is what causes the problem.
Why are there monopolies? Because of excessive government regulation, along with cronyism, that make it impossible for small companies to enter the health care market. There are so many federal requirements for what must be included in a ‘health insurance’ program that only billion-dollar mega-corporations can foot the bill.
This is why we need free-market reform, not greater government involvement. If the market were deregulated, smaller insurance companies could offer smaller plans for those with minor health care needs, which are the majority of people who use health care. Imagine if the health care industry itself were deregulated so we could see more practitioners, rather than full MDs, performing minor services for small fees – much like in the dental industry.
If this sounds bizarre or scary to you, bear in mind that this was how it used to be, before the government got involved, back when people could actually AFFORD to get treated for a medical problem.
The reason why so many people are against greater government involvement is because the government NEVER solves a problem. The free market solves all kinds of problems, every day – the free market has brought you all those technological wonders you use on a daily basis (heck, even the Internet, primarily a DARPA project, was brought about by free-market pitching of contracts to private organizations).
@98. AtheistConservative: – The inherent fallacy in the debate over health care is that people arguing for greater government control assert that we HAVE a free market, when we don’t. We have an incredibly regulated market.
Excellent point. It’s one I’ve been stressing for years.
In fact, not only is the market overregulated but – far more importantly – it’s completely broken from an Economics 101 standpoint.
The ultimate consumers of healthcare have absolutely no knowledge of the price of the goods and services they consume. They are completely disassociated from those prices – by design – and, therefore, have no ability to exert pressure to keep them affordable.
Routine health care is the ONLY commodity market where this broken model persists. Not surprisingly, health care is the ONLY commodity market where prices have outpaced inflation by such and outrageous rate. And it persists precisely because it benefits the proxy monopoly of insurance companies – who determine prices of and access to all health care. It persists ALSO because it benefits the vast majority of AMA members – who earn on average between $250,000 and $600,000 annually – and those in their milieu: ridiculously highly paid hospital Administrators and medical industry CEOs. This is to say nothing of the billion$ upon billion$ in revenue raked in each year by the pharmaceutical companies, who also benefit.
Outside of that aspect, group plans tend to force costs to increase over time. That’s because the cost of commodities has a natural tendency to rise. However, when 100 people are paying for the goods and services consumed by only 10 or 20, or even 75 in the group, the cost of services for those 10, etc., tends to increase toward the limit imposed by the financial resources of all 100. This means it tends to increase beyond the ability of any one member to afford it.
This is exactly the dynamic we see in comprehensive medical plans, which “spread the cost around” no differently than BHO’s plan to “spread the wealth around”.
Insurance is a tool for mitigating financial risk. We should NOT be using it as a proxy for socialism by using it to pay for routine health care.
Rather than trying to take over the comp. health insurance companies, the government should be moving the economy back to a free market by working to eliminate them, through tax and other incentives, because they are the root cause of skyrocketing health care costs, which only began really increasing with the wide-spread adoption of comprehensive plans, HMOs and the like.
Cardin is one of my Senators and the man is a pompous ass, he was when he was a Representative and he’s worse now that he’s a Senator. Mikulski is just as bad in her own way. After writing him on the ObamaCare bill (which I read) he had the gall to basically tell me I didn’t know what I was reading and spouted the talking points back at me without answering my questions or addressing my concerns. Same thing for the Cap and Trade legislation, which I did not have the opportunity to read in full at the time they were ramming it through the House.
Also Mr. Littlefield you may want to brush up on your history concerning Lincoln, he ran roughshod over both the will of the people of the states that seceded from the USA and the US Constitution. When the Supreme Court declared his actions unconstitutional he basically told them to piss off and that he could do whatever he wanted. He suspended habeas corpus and arrested over 18,000 political dissenters including the Mayor of Baltimore and the grandson of Francis Scott Key. If Left think Bush was a war criminal, then they would be appalled at what Lincoln allowed his Generals to do. The current crap taught in public schools about Lincoln and the “Civil War” are some of the most revisionist history ever written. By 2012 we may find out that the comparison between Lincoln and Obama was more appropriate than anyone could have imagined.
I really don’t have time to re-write all of this, but it fits in so well here. Please check out “Obama vs. America” at Common Conservative Sense, http://mikefromnc.wordpress.com.
But when a president defies a small but vocal minority of angry delusional citizens from the bible belt that thinks Obama is the antichrist, clearly the president is a tyrannical fascist for not taking them seriously
Muppie Boy: You’d better check the polls – Obama’s approval ratings are tanking. Every reputable pollster shows that (online polls at HuffPo, alas, don’t fit in that category.) A majority of Americans are opposed to his healthcare plans.
Or don’t check the polls. Really, if leftists want to go on believing that only a small group of “angry delusional citizens from the bible belt” oppose their Messiah, please, be my guest. Go on marginalizing and mocking them.
The GOP found out what “hubris” means in 2006. You will find out what it means in 2010 and 2012. And I will laugh and laugh.
I suspect that at that time, you won’t be showing up at PJM any more to splatter insults. No, muppie, you’ll be splattering tears all over your pin-up photos of a shirtless Obama, sobbing “Life was so wonderful in January 2009,…,what happened? Those stupid rednecks ruined it!”
Mike: That was a fabulous article. Thanks for the link.
102. Donna V.: “Muppie Boy: You’d better check the polls – Obama’s approval ratings are tanking. Every reputable pollster shows that (online polls at HuffPo, alas, don’t fit in that category.) A majority of Americans are opposed to his healthcare plans. Or don’t check the polls. Really, if leftists want to go on believing that only a small group of “angry delusional citizens from the bible belt” oppose their Messiah, please, be my guest. Go on marginalizing and mocking them.”
That’s funny, because I read a June 2009 NBC/Wall Street Journal poll just today that shows that you’re full of it and have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/090617_NBC-WSJ_poll_Full.pdf
From page 21:
In any health care proposal, how important do you feel it is to give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance––extremely important, quite important, not that important, or not at all important?
Extremely important …………………….. 41 %
Quite important …………………………… 35%
Not that important ……………………….. 12%
Not at all important ……………………… 8%
Do you know what this means? That means that a tiny minority of loud right wing idiots is profoundly mistaken if it thinks that its deluded opinions on health care are shared by the majority of Americans.
From pages 5-8:
“Now I’m going to read you the names of several public figures, and I’d like you to rate your feelings toward each one as either very positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative, or very negative. If you don’t know the name, please just say so.
The Democratic Party
Very Positive: 19%
Somewhat Positive: 26%
Neutral: 16%
Somewhat Negative: 16%
Very Negative: 21%
Don’t Know/Not Sure 2%
The Republican Party
Very Positive: 6%
Somewhat Positive: 19
Neutral: 29%
Somewhat Negative: 23%
Very Negative: 21%
Don’t Know/Not Sure: 2% </i
The GOP found out what “hubris” means in 2006. You will find out what it means in 2010 and 2012. And I will laugh and laugh.
I suspect that at that time, you won’t be showing up at PJM any more to splatter insults. No, muppie, you’ll be splattering tears all over your pin-up photos of a shirtless Obama, sobbing “Life was so wonderful in January 2009,…,what happened? Those stupid rednecks ruined it!”
That’s also funny, because you said basically the same thing on November 3, 2008. And look how that turned out for you.
When only 6% of the people who took that survey view the GOP in “very positive terms”, it becomes abundantly clear which of us is deluded.
It also becomes clear that the GOP has no chance in 2010, even if it manages to kill health care reform.
puppy muppet – your silly cite is over two months old, and based on data collected before anyone had any idea what the Democrats were planning to do to America.
Here – try something a little more up-to-date:
Also, by the way…
I know it’s hard, since you have to think and all, but do try to keep up with current events.
Speaking of arrogant liberal (read: leftist) politicians…
Please let Americans know that Obama and his crew now OWN the runaway Wall Street salary issue.
Here’s a new “obscene” compensation package just awarded at AIG – and approved by the unelected “pay czar”:
I suppose after QUADRUPLING THE BUDGET, stuff like this just doesn’t make it onto (the) one’s radar anymore.
The more I think about it. I can’t think of one good reason why the Government should be providing my heath care. None of the core arguments that the Obama administration are convincing.
Paster of Muppets #104. The reason people don’t like the GOP is because basically they turned into Democrats Lite.
goy #99. Excellent! The only sensible explanation for HR3200 (i.e. ObamaCare) is Government control.
Oh, that’s nice Muppie. You just today noticed a June 2009 poll. You’re right up to the minute, I see. Are you receiving your polling data via carrier pigeon? Meanwhile, in the real world of August 2009, Obambi ain’t doing so hot:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx
“PRINCETON, NJ — Americans rate President Barack Obama’s handling of healthcare policy essentially the same as they did roughly three weeks ago, remaining slightly more likely to disapprove than approve. The update comes after several weeks of Congress’ working to advance legislation through committees and the Obama administration’s stepping up efforts to win public support.
49% disapprove, and 43% approve.”
Here’s another interesting Gallup poll, showing that self-indentified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals in nearly every state. Gee, those are rather bizarre findings, aren’t they? After all, this is supposedly the great liberal moment and non-Southern conservatives, we’ve been told, are on the endangered species list. And yet, an awful of lot of people seem to be calling themselves conservative – even in states like New York and Illinois.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/122333/Political-Ideology-Conservative-Label-Prevails-South.aspx
Muppie, an awful lot can happen between now and 2012 – or 2010. So while it’s dangerous for either of us to make predictions, it’s also pretty delusional of you to insist that Obama’s opponents are “marginal.” Looks to me like increasing numbers of Americans are waking up to the fact that the Dems are trying to feed them feces while calling it hot fudge sundae. You might happily gulp it down and lick the plate, but don’t expect the rest of us to follow suit.
Oh, and Brent refers to the Gallup poll I linked to in his article as well – proof that Muppie and other trolls don’t actually read any of the articles posted on PJM or, indeed, any information that contradicts their arrogant assumption that the only people who oppose Obama live in trailer parks below the Mason-Dixon line.
For my part, I would like to thank you, Pastor of Muppets. It’s you and people like you, who are convincing more and more Americans every day that being a liberal is a pretty miserable thing to be. People don’t even want to own up to it when they talk to anonymous Gallup pollsters. Who can blame them for being ashamed?
Not only was MeatPuppet’s poll months old, it was pulled from MSDNC. It amazes me how lefties will deny reality.
@110. Donna V.: – …proof that Muppie and other trolls don’t actually read any of the articles posted on PJM…
A more likely scenario, IMHO, is that they read the stuff and then run off to sift through their bookmarks for the talking point data they’ve been handed for the purposes of rebuttal.
But like careless, inexperienced, inept BHO – who apparently thought he had AARP in his pocket when he lied, twice, about their endorsement – poor muppy most likely never even bothered to look at the date on the survey s/he regurgipasted.
- … being a liberal is a pretty miserable thing to be. People don’t even want to own up to it when they talk to anonymous Gallup pollsters.
Oh… THAT’s why the recent data shows that conservatives outnumber leftists in every State in the Union.
I’ve been following the uproar in the UK regarding Daniel Hannan’s comments on Fox about the NHS. This is what struck me: UK hospitals have wards. Some of them are mixed sex.
Think about that one, folks. An inpatient hospital visit is no fun, even when you have a private room. Now imagine lying there recovering from your knee operation – in a ward with 29 other patients. In the UK, it seems you have the additional pleasure of watching the elderly woman (or man) in the next bed trying to pull out their catheter or take off their hospital gown. And the 101 close friends and relatives of the lady in the bed to you and the guy across from you are all visiting them at the same time.
Boy, doesn’t that sound fun! And “progressive!” It is, I’m sure – if you’re a time traveler and have just arrived from 1835.
P.S. The prospect of hospitals reintroducing wards is probably one reason Congress has exempted itself from healthcare meant for the proles. If Pelosi or Dodd ever found themselves in a hospital ward, the other patients would summon the strength to beat them to death with bedpans.
AtheistConservative (111)
“It amazes me how lefties will deny reality.”
Whether working to warp the minds of their students with revisionist history or working to destroy the economy with revisionist economics, they cannot deal with reality and therefore either deny or ignore it. Their successes are always based on lying about who they are and what they believe. They are elitists who don’t believe in our system of government and feel that they themselves are the elite that should rule. Not govern, mind you, but rule. Who else could worship and praise a man who has never accomplished a thing other than to walk from one quota based entitlement to the next? Were there no quotas and preferences in place, no one other than corrupt Chicago politicians in need of a corrupt gofer would have ever heard of the man now in the Whitehouse. Lefties are, in fact, nothing but parasites. They never create anything; they attach themselves to something already in existence and drain the life out of it.
Conservatives and Independents, on the other hand, have long ignored reality themselves. They refuse to admit that the left honestly and deeply wants to destroy this country. Which is worse, not admitting your real intentions or not admitting that anyone could possibly intend to do you harm? The parasite by nature tries to remain hidden, but the prey that refuses to admit that there are parasites about is actively denying reality and inviting its own destruction. The American people have no one to blame for this mess, both the economic mess and the fools in charge, but themselves. I hope average citizens finally face the reality that the left is intent on taking away their freedom and entire way of life. Then it wouldn’t matter whether the left admitted what they were or not, anyone proposing or refusing to remove preferences and entitlements would be seen for what they really are, Czarist elitists intent on destroying this country.
Regards
It IS the President’s job to occasionally go against the will of the people, to do his duty as he deems fit, especially in foreign affairs, as he has info they do not have. He is elected every four years, so that he has time to enact his policies before having to answer to the electorate.
Thus, Bush clearly made the right call to stay in Iraq. We won… not that the newsies gave him much credit… or even acknowledged the victory, in many cases.
Your Congresscritter, however, has no such responsibility. He is beholden to his district. He is supposed to speak with their voice, not his own, when they have made their will clear. He is to represent them, not himself. That’s why there is an election every two years for him. Another election is always just around the corner.
Do not confuse a Congressman with a President. They are worlds apart.
#64 mythbuster: “We can ban abortion another way….declare the fetus to be a person entitled to equal protection under the law…..” Oh my, that sounds like a version of the Full Employment for Lawyers Act. And just what sort of police state would be needed to make sure a pregnant woman doesn’t smoke, drink, engage in sports, or do other stuff that might harm a fetus? The “socialist right” epitomized by groups like Right to Life and Focus on the Family tried to run a “fetus is a person” ballot initiative here in Colorado last year. As all the problems & potential problems came out, it went down to defeat by a 27-73% margin.
#95 Paul-Indiana: “we are proposing what’s best for the baby…” Sounds like a version of the nanny state to me. And of course as a man, you absolutely know what’s best for every baby….. And if the mother is poor and carries to term, you fully support all the medical care and schooling that child will need, don’t you? (hint: it’s called welfare).
#109 Donna V.: “an awful lot of people seem to be calling themselves conservative…..” Yes that’s true. Most seem to be CINOS however (CINO= conservative in name only). They weren’t conservative until after inauguration day on January 20. Some of us, on the other hand, were conservative during 2001-09 trying to deal with all that deficit spending and corporate cronyism, despite self-proclaimed “conservatives” like Rush Limbaugh telling us “life is good.”
#116 Marc Malone: “Bush clearly made the right call to stay in Iraq….” Actually, we shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Taking out Saddam could have been handled very cheaply and discreetly. However, Dick Cheney was still in denial about the loss of executive power following Watergate. In its own way, Cheney’s abuse of executive power was as bad as what people are accusing Obama of now.
96: tanstaafl:
‘Gee, Bear, you force me to learn more about this guy.’
I said I was satisfied with his response, that the town hall meetings he’s conducted and that his reading of the bill convinced him not to vote for HR3200. Doesn’t mean I’ll be satisfied with what he ultimately does.
I personally don’t like Massa’s attitude about the war. Like most it’s a holier than thou attitude.
I personally was against it before I was for it. I didn’t believe it was good strategy, but once we were in we were committed…he like most Americans, make a big to-do about being misled, but most were in favor of it, and I argued with many of them. The few that are overly vocal about how they were against it are just pompous idiots. it is what it is (still).
Personally I have a bigger problem with our Afghan strategy. It’s the 1980′s all over again
…but once we were in we were committed…he like most Americans, make a big to-do about being misled, but most were in favor of it, and I argued with many of them
Bear, I was referencing Massa’s explanation for saying he’d vote against the wishes of his constituents (it would appear, on the basis of his remarks, that he is a big proponent of “single payer” and his western NY constituents are not)
My comments weren’t meant to be about getting engaged in the Iraq war, merely that Eric Massa attempted to justify the notion of not representing the folks in his district by bringing up that a Republican (a guy he “admires”) had voted against authorization of use of force in Iraq in 2002, i.e., “gone against” Bush.
It seemed lame.
I hope that’s clear, clearer than mud, anyway.
For the record, once the Iraq war was a fact, a given, a fait accompli, I found the dissembly on the part of some individuals who had, in fact, voted “yea” for authorization of use of force in October 2002 (e.g., John Kerry, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton) to be disingenuous, downright near anti-American, once big difficulties cropped up in Iraq, post invasion, and “the war” became hugely unpopular.
I found their repudiation of their own votes (and their own statements about Saddam & the threat posed by Iraq) to be really tacky, somewhat like the statements of Eric Massa and his follow up attempts to justify them.
tanstaafl:
I think we’re on the same page. I absolutely understand what you are saying.
Steve B. – you sound about as conservative as my cat.
I get so tired of this bogus “only a woman can decide what’s best for the baby” attitude, as though men lose all reason when it comes to matters of such import. Men can’t possibly know what it’s like to be pregnant, and to give birth. I will acknowlege there is a special bond, due to that process, that only Mothers can have. But that is where the distinction ends, or at least where it should end. Men are equally capable of love and support, and we are equally capable of having valid input into the life or death of the unborn. It’s not just a woman’s choice.
More at http://mikefromnc.wordpress.com
#121 Mike: Congratulations on having a “political cat.” Not every person can have such a critter.
Suggest you read again the comment from Paul-Indiana in #95 regarding that he knows what is best for a baby. I never said that men are not capable of love & support. I also agree that a male can have valid input into the life or death of an unborn fetus; but that should be restricted to his own family. Family planning decisions are family decisions that should not be intervened in by big government or big religion.
As for who is or is not “conservative,” consider this quote from the late Senator Barry Goldwater, generally acknowledged as the founder of the modern conservative movement in the US.
“A lot of so-called conservatives today don’t know what the word means. They think I’ve turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That’s a decision that’s up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders on the religious right. It’s not a conservative issue at all.”
Herein lies a massive inconsistency among many of those who consider themselves conservative. As I read posts from various individuals here on PJM, they are quick to condemn what they consider as big government/Obama interference in health care decisions. But then they also advocate for government intervention in personal life decisions. That’s not conservative.