Liberal Muslims in Norway Call for Free Speech Demonstration
I didn’t know that liberal Muslims in Norway had finally managed to form their own group — which goes by the name LIM — though it has been known for a while that some gutsy efforts have been made in this direction. For I am in no doubt that there are liberal Muslims in Norway — in fact, I am less in doubt about this than I was a few years ago. Indeed there seem to be more and more of them. To this I say, with hope, “Hurrah!” At the same time, I believe that it is the less liberal Muslims, and especially the criticism that has been directed at them (and for their failure on this score, most of the media should be ashamed of themselves), that have gotten more and more Muslims to declare themselves liberal. Not that I think all “liberal Muslims” will be able to be brought together in a single group: they’re too diverse for that. But I am pleased to see that the hegemony of the illiberal Muslims is finally being broken.
Since the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 Islam-related cartoons in 2005, the debate has been loud and long, if not very broad, as to whether it should be permitted to caricature and criticize the prophet Muhammed and Islam. On one side are those who defend such publication on the basis of freedom of speech and the possibility that such criticism might contribute to the development of Islam; on the other side are those who argue that such publication wounds and insults the world’s approximately 1.5 billion Muslims. I belong to the first group and have never understood what seems to me an idée fixe — namely, that somebody’s claim to have been offended should be taken to apply to all of the Muslims in the world. Case in point: the editor in chief of the online newspaper Nettavisen, Gunnar Stavrum, who, under the headline “Is It Brave to Offend Muslims?,” asked his readers whether Nettavisen should publish the Muhammed cartoons. So far Stavrum has received 325 replies — and a quick perusal of them suggests that the readers feel that Nettavisen, and all other media that report on stories relating to the Muhammed cartooons, should publish the drawings they’re writing about. And not because it’s brave to offend Muslims, but because it is totally misguided to believe that such publication offends all Muslims. Indeed, to believe this is to offend Muslims.
It was not wrong that the cartoons of Muhammed were published, and in any case this doesn’t justify violence. Muslims have as much interest in defending freedom of speech as anyone else. Therefore Muslims should also support Kurt Westergaard.
So says Shakil Rehman, spokesman for the LIM (which stands for the Norwegian words for Equality, Integration, Diversity), to the newspaper Klassekampen. Rehman is hoping for a reaction from the Islamic Council of Norway (IRN) after one of the Muhammed cartoonists, Kurt Westergaard, was attacked with an ax in his home on New Year’s Day. The LIM has challenged the IRN to arrange a demonstration in support of free speech. If the IRN doesn’t do so, the LIM will:
I’m afraid that they won’t take up our challenge, because they don’t want to lose face in the Muslim world. But if they support freedom of speech, they must also be able to show that they mean it in practice.
In all likelihood, Rehman’s suspicions that the IRN will give its proposal a thumbs-down are correct, precisely for the reason he mentions. Of course the IRN would lose face in “the Muslim world” — namely, in that world that is qualified to control and direct how the world’s Muslims should conduct themselves. Moreover, if they held such a demo, they would be giving up their most important tool — namely, the assertion that they have been offended.
What would Mohammad do? ah, yes the dead poets’ society…
What would God do with you??? just shutup and think for a while … If you cant respect any of the messengers of God, then be ready to face the chastisement and punishment to be inflicted by God
If one supports freedom of speech then obviously Mr. Westergaard’s cartoons deserve publication. On the other hand, if one believes that NO ONE should be allowed to defame a religion, then we must have an absolute ban on Muslims calling Jews “monkeys and pigs.”
Radical members of most religious persuasions have, both historically an in present times, engaged in terrorist type activities. That fact excuses no one. Being “outraged” by criticism of one’s religion does not give one a free pass to engage in terrorism in any form.
supporting freedom of speech doesnot mean to cross the boundries drawn by the God. Remember u and me are the servants of the GOD and servants are to please their Lords…If u believe in God then u should know that the God has made it compulsory to respect all the Prophets…. u r free to criticise me but not any of my Prophets…weather he is Jesus,or is He my beloved Muhammad(PBUH),as i love and respect all the prophets
If any muslim have called bad names to christians, then i , being a muslim condemn this, but if some body cant respect any of the Prophets then i, being a muslim, do not call him/her a muslim… u can criticise me , as i am an ordinary muslim, but dont criticise any Of the Prophets for they are the Apostles of God
Liberal Muslims? You mean the ones who don’t act their religion’s core tenets like domination, second rate status for infidels, etc. That’s like Nazis who weren’t too keen about the final solution, isn’t it? The problem lies with the philosophy itself and what is written in the Koran.
The real tragedy here is the cultural suicide the Norwegian people have signed themselves up for with their immigration policies and loss of their own unique identity. It’s a people who have lost the will to survive as a people, only concerning themselves with the here and now.
do u define liberty as not to pay respect to God’s apostles? if u really do so then animals are better than u
do u define freedom as criticising a Prophet of God? if u really do so then wait for the punishment by God
if u had studied the holy Quran thouroughly ,u wud not have said ‘PROBLEM lies ….’. if u have said this after reading the HOLY QURAN, then the problem lies with ur brain…go to a PSYchiatrist and a neurologist
The term ‘Liberal Muslim’ is an inherent contradiction in terms.
This article is a mish mash. Perhaps you need another translator.
Having lived many years in Scandinavia, however, I suspect it truly reflects the Scandinavian preceptual context: a mish mash.
On the one hand is the other hand and let’s hope for the best.
I do not believe that any group should be protected from being offended. Yes, there are degrees of offense and improper motives, but does not satire offend on the surface? If one is to demand protection from being offended, one should be able to give a supportable, non-emotional rational reason.
The National Endowment for the Arts takes great pleasure in supporting “artists” who, after feeding in the government trough for public funds, greatly offend Christians. Let the Muslims state their case for their exemption from being offended.
we the true muslims never criticise any of the Prophets of God… WE love Jesus..we love Musa We love JOSeph, the prove is that Quran makes it obligatory to respect all the prophets… refer to AL-Quran (chapter no:2;verse no:285). secondly,we name our sons after all the prophets…what kind of a faith will u define in respecting one prophet and not the God’s Beloved?
Every week, sometimes every day there are thousands of ‘Have Your Say ‘ replies pointing out the value and desirability of free speech and the fallacy that belief in the unproven produces a better world. All the arguments have been made. Politicians throughout Europe seem to be very lack lustre, even cowardly in speaking out to defend our society, or perhaps they are just afraid. I think we have now come to a point where frequent displays on the streets will stiffen the spines of politicians and make the point that we will defend our Democracy from those who seek power by force that they would never gain via the ballot box. Perhaps we should also use the word ‘Democrophobia’ at least once every day.
to most muslims ..(especially those that follow the Koran) there is no moderate or liberal muslim.
although it is heartening to see some stand for western ideals I am not holding my breath.
I do not expect any development of moderation on the part of islam.
If Muslims wish to retain a place of their own
in Western society, this is a good first step;
If they insist on continuing to pose an existential
threat to the West, then on their own heads be it.
Nice to see the PJ dualistic sheeple erring on the side of fascism, as usual.
One of Mohammad’s many crimes was to send assassins to kill two Arabic poets that criticized him and other Muslims. Westergaard’s would be assassin was clearly acting within the example set by Mohammad. Westergaard’s assassination would have been celebrated by millions of Muslims around the world. No amount of liberal gibberish can change that fact.
keep your dirty big mouth shut…you had not studied the life of our beloved Prophet(pbuh)….this is the reason u had uttered the worst statement…we love all the Prophets we love Jesus,we love musa we love Joseph, we love Adam, we love Muhammad(peace be upon Him),, we love and respect all the prophets, what kind of a jealousy u r living with? jealousy with the ummah of God’s beloved Prophet(pbuh)?…study about the holy life of our beloved Prophet(pbuh) and even if u remain misguided then wait for the day of resurrection
If some Christians do something stupid and hateful somewhere in the world other Christians condemn them loudly, the Muslims should do the same when other Muslims commit similar acts.
A newspaper called “Klassekampen”? That’s “class struggle” in English, a Marxist term. — It would be funny, if it weren’t so sad…
10. kochevnik:
Nice to see the PJ dualistic sheeple erring on the side of fascism, as usual.
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So who is it exactly that is siding with socialism tainted with nationalism and authoritarianism? I see them siding with free speech. Are you sure you even understand what fascism is? Maybe you can write a few lines about how exactly the ” sheeple” are erring on the side of fascism.
I agree on some of the posting in here #3, #8, there is no liberal muslim that follows the Koran. What I don’t understand is 1.5 billion muslim are so dumb enought to stay in this kind of belief.
For anyone that studied the Koran, there is only one Islam just as there is only one Prophet, Muhammad. All other ‘variations’ are false and do not respect the spirit or the letter of Islam. There are no liberal or
conservative Muslims, to begin with. Even the Sunni and Shiites branches are considered an abomination, not
to mention all others.
In matters religious, none is better than the other but some are less primitive and more ‘civilized’. When it
was created, in the Arabian desert, all Islamic principles and life imperatives were valid and necessary for survival. Not any longer. Unfortunately, the capacity for change is zero and this creates a total rejection of
Islam by all other human societies. And this will never change, just like Islam will never adapt to modern
life.
In a nutshell, the Clash of Civilizations will never end – so sorry. We might as well get used to that.
@Keith:
I like the idea. Every time any one says “That’s Islamaphic” we can reply, no just anti-democraphobic.
Thank you.
I can barely make out the words “dhimmitude” and “submission” superimposed on the Christian cross on the flag at the top of this article. How apt!
Before juping to any conclusions about the moderation of these Muslims, the author must first determine a simple matter — namely: Do these so-called ‘moderates’ believe that Islam must eventually subjugate the world, as the Koran exhorts and REQUIRES of all Muslims? If so, then their claims for the preciousness of free speech only seems to be another vehicle for the imposition of Islam on others. How exactly is that “moderate”? How “free” would Western peoples remain if such “moderate” Muslims get their way and subjugate the West under Islam? It is absurd to think these so-called “moderates” would tolerate uppity kuffir to speak their mind freely under the hegemony of Islam. Such “moderate” Muslims will use free speech as their vehicle of Jihad to bring about Islam’s supremacy.
On the other hand, if such Muslims abjure this exhortation to wage Jihad until it’s Islam Uber Alles, then they are rejecting the very foundation of Islam itself, and are not genuine Muslims.
Westernerners who giddily await the arrival of “moderate” Muslim unicorns aren’t doing anyone any favors. In fact they are tools and useful idiots exploited by Muslims to confuse infidels and perptuate soft Jihad. Soft Jihad is just another part of the overall Global Jihad which is gaining momentum. The author appears to be a helpful witless tool in that Jihad.
18@Morton Doodslag
So subjugate each-other, as you put it! Muslums are simply nature’s counterpole to annoying theist christians who also want a uber theocratic New World Order. Islamic controls on thievery are welcome in business and usury law would eliminate the national debt. But most importantly, christofascists would finally be permanently contained within the confines of their silly cult, worshiping a poor dead Jew dude they hung on a stick. What a sick group that is!
19. kochevnik:
18@Morton Doodslag
So subjugate each-other, as you put it! Muslums are simply nature’s counterpole to annoying theist christians who also want a uber theocratic New World Order. Islamic controls on thievery are welcome in business and usury law would eliminate the national debt. But most importantly, christofascists would finally be permanently contained within the confines of their silly cult, worshiping a poor dead Jew dude they hung on a stick. What a sick group that is!
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Second misuse of the world fascist. Stop using words you don’t understand.
And Jesus wasn’t hung on a stick. He was nailed to a cross. And “they” were the Romans at behest of the Jewish leaders not the christians your statement indicates. Not sure if that was a failure of grammar or education or both. Any way you slice it that was a failure.
It’s well known at this site that I’m an agnostic. But unlike the moronic poster above spouting bigoted rants, I cherish the amazing Christian heritage of my civilization, and want to see her enemies destroyed… How sad, bitter, hateful, and idiotic are the posts of this foolish troll. Pitiful.
I can imagine American Muslim writing something like:
“Unlike the moronic posters above spouting bigoted rants, I cherish the amazing Islamic heritage of my civilization, and want to see her enemies destroyed… How sad, bitter, hateful, and idiotic are the posts of these foolish trolls. Pitiful.”
20@Phranc:
>Second misuse of the world fascist. Stop using words you don’t understand.
Rome invented fascism. They call it the Roman Catholic Church for a reason. #1 Phranc fail.
>And Jesus wasn’t hung on a stick. He was nailed to a cross. And “they”
>were the Romans at behest of the Jewish leaders not the christians
>your statement indicates.
Not everything is to be taken with a level of precision to the atomic level, especially concerning a child molestation cult built on a Roman necropolis. Moreover these is no proof that Jesus existed. The tale has been re-spun 232 times across the globe. Christians emerged from the Roman Catholic Church, hence they carry the force of it’s fascist ideas into modern times. #2 Phranc fail.
>Not sure if that was a failure of grammar or education or both. Any way
>you slice it that was a failure.
Funny I got A marks in English, even as it’s not my language. Seems I was just lucky. That failed point isn’t even germane, Phranc. I won’t count it as fail #3
Far left liberals are violent misguided people and scandinavia must confront and fight them to get back what scandinavia had. They facilitate islam’s growth and are what stand in the way of common sense. I would rather live in the worst american ghetto than malmoe. I have heard too many self rightous swedish criticise USA. So sweden, I hope the transition to an islamic society treats you well.
23. kochevnik:
20@Phranc:
>Second misuse of the world fascist. Stop using words you don’t understand.
Rome invented fascism. They call it the Roman Catholic Church for a reason. #1 Phranc fail.
>And Jesus wasn’t hung on a stick. He was nailed to a cross. And “they”
>were the Romans at behest of the Jewish leaders not the christians
>your statement indicates.
Not everything is to be taken with a level of precision to the atomic level, especially concerning a child molestation cult built on a Roman necropolis. Moreover these is no proof that Jesus existed. The tale has been re-spun 232 times across the globe. Christians emerged from the Roman Catholic Church, hence they carry the force of it’s fascist ideas into modern times. #2 Phranc fail.
>Not sure if that was a failure of grammar or education or both. Any way
>you slice it that was a failure.
Funny I got A marks in English, even as it’s not my language. Seems I was just lucky. That failed point isn’t even germane, Phranc. I won’t count it as fail #3
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Lucky? Yeah…… If defence of misusing a word twice you connect Rome and the Roman catholic Church then you bring up child molesting and make the dishonest claim that its ok to misuse words. You have no credibility, intellectual integrity, and no understanding of the words you use incorrectly. Some times I wish I could be as stupid like you. It must be blissful.
“I can imagine American Muslim writing something like:
“Unlike the moronic posters above spouting bigoted rants, I cherish the amazing Islamic heritage of my civilization, and want to see her enemies destroyed… How sad, bitter, hateful, and idiotic are the posts of these foolish trolls. Pitiful.”
And the “Islamic heritage” of “American Muslim’s” … what? Explain the “Islamic heritage” of America for us once again, you idiot. Are you referring to the Muslim Barbary Pirates, whose asses were roundly whipped by our American Marines in 1801? That “Islamic heritage”? Or are you referring to the endless slaughter against the West since the inception of Islam, that heinous blood soaked religion? Oh — I forgot — Islam invented the automobile, zero, chess, electricity, the television, optics, mathematics science, medicine, but somehow couldn’t figure out the flushing toilet. Oh yeah, your Islamic Sharia forbids pooping into moving water, thus all the crapping in waste bins right next to the toilet wherever Muslims reside, and the prohibition against using the left hand to touch or eat (True! The left hand is used, EVEN TODAY, for wiping of Muslim ass, O uniformed infidels…)
I suspect kochevnik and “Muslim American” may actually be one and the same. The posts are very similar, and their point is basically the same. America BAD. Islam GOOD. But even kochevnik slipped in asserting that “American Muslim” might conflate my comment into an equal one about his “heritage”. No American Muslim would ever identify first with the true American heritage which I here defend. ALL Muslims bear fealty first and foremost to the Islamic Ummah. In fact, most schools of Islamic jurisprudence maintain that placing the secular Western laws above the supposed God given laws of Sharia is tantamount to apostasy, warranting death. Nice system you’re defending, jackass.
25@Phranc
Hey Phranc you sound like an informed guy. I’ll wager you can’t disprove that fascism originated with Roman Catholicism as created by Constantine. I know your are honorable with credibility beyond question, so this should be a cake walk for you.
Also here is a video “Deception & Lies Built Christianity in 325 CE” for your consideration: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2D210A9A9A73F089
24@allan jens
>I would rather live in the worst american ghetto than malmoe.
I know a place here on Telegraph Road. I’ll hook you up and let’s see how you feel after a month. Detroit has some inexpensive venues as well that will surely interest a worldly cosmopolitan like you.
27. kochevnik:
25@Phranc
Hey Phranc you sound like an informed guy. I’ll wager you can’t disprove that fascism originated with Roman Catholicism as created by Constantine. I know your are honorable with credibility beyond question, so this should be a cake walk for you.
Also here is a video “Deception & Lies Built Christianity in 325 CE” for your consideration: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2D210A9A9A73F089
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Nice strawman argument. Why would I even bother to refute a claim against a claim I never made and has nothing to do with your misuse of the word? Your argument has no credibility.
#23 well said. thank you.
#29 Phrance: how are you doing? I was traveling for a while. Thank god i don’t look like your typical muslim! Phrance: do you know what is more scarier than “driving while black”? Flying while a muslim!!!!! any how what is the subject here? I am jet lagged…
Unless and until Islam undergoes a reformation “liberal Muslim” are incompatible, a contradiciton in terms. Perhaps they mean, “Liberal” in the sense that it conforms to the ideology of Islam or the religion of peace dogma imposed upon us by the outdated, Western cultural despisers. The freedom to think or act outside those parameters is either non existant or downright risky! Freedom or the lack thereof is directly proportional to the limits placed on it.
The Cartoon controversy was one of greatest slap in the face ever to the enlightened values bestowed upon the West by its forefathers.
Instead of “let them eat oil” the anti-Enlightment establishment with the help of the MSM, aided and abetted the assault on our existing freedoms such as that of the press and speech. Such actions are the hallmark of all totalatarian regimes. As such, Islam succeeded on establishing itself into a position more dominant in the West than that of Christianity in the Middle Ages.
Wonder what would men like, John Locke, Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson and Winston Churchill have thought of all this?
Who so ever doesnt respect any of the apostles, he/she does not deserve to live, you can criticise me my parents my frends.. but critcising a prophet of God shows ur illetrate and wild side…we respect all the prophets ,this is a compulsory article of faith,,,what kind of faith u can claim in God if u cant respect God’s apostles???