Leftists Aren’t the Only Perpetrators of Anti-Semitism in the World
A few days after the Marmara raid by Israeli naval commandos on Memorial Day, Fox News commentator Glenn Beck dedicated an entire program to the origins of the Israel-Middle East conflict and of anti-Semitism. It was a splendid piece of journalism and moved me to tears. I recorded Glenn’s show and have already broken the tab on the videotape. This was a classic — one to keep.
Understand this: here in England we do not have anyone on television or radio who remotely resembles Glenn Beck. On the pro-Palestinian side there is George Galloway, a thundering orator who is a household name; on the pro-Israel side there are Melanie Phillips and Kelvin MacKenzie, but they do not have a daily, televised vehicle that allows them the freedom Glenn enjoys to, as it were, deliver sermons unchallenged.
His program about Israel the democracy was breathtaking because he looked at every aspect of the hatred heaped upon the tiny Jewish state and made sure the audience knew about the appalling human rights outrages perpetrated in neighboring dictatorships.
But there was one boo-boo. Glenn kept repeating over and over his contention that the left are the perpetrators of Israel-hatred and anti-Semitism. This is simply not true. Perhaps one has to live outside the United States to understand the complexities of Israel-hatred, but without a shadow of a doubt it does not confine itself to the left.
In my book Don’t Tread on Me: anti-Americanism Abroad, I relate stories of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism from people I would not characterize as leftists. To be specific, in September 2009 on the hugely popular BBC television show Question Time, Conservative Party doyen Lord Heseltine launched into a tirade about the “special relationship” between the United States and Great Britain. He said there was actually no “special relationship” except for the one between the United States and Israel. His venom could barely be contained. He also went into the predictable harangue about how Americans supported the IRA (I talk about this in my book; it is deplorable that NorAid supporters in Boston sent even one penny to the terror group but I wager 99% of Americans lamented this too). Heseltine is a conservative and very rich with absolutely no left-wing DNA.
The late Senator Robert Byrd was never an Israel enthusiast and anyone who associated him with the left had to be nuts. The same goes for Republican former Senator Chuck Hagel. Shall we add Patrick Buchanan to the mix? He really loves Israel, yes?
Dear, dear Glenn, I know your heart is in the right place but please know the worldwide conspiracy to destroy Israel is not just on the left. In Great Britain the late Dowager Lady Birdwood, who had a large distribution list of reactionaries to whom she sent her newsletter, was loved by the conservative, capitalist world of the landed gentry. Have a look at the article by her friend Martin Webster about the worldwide Israeli conspiracy at this link.
Jew-hatred has always been ”mainstream” in Europe. For a brief period after the Holocaust, it went underground for a while, it wasn’t ”respectable” to be an anti-Semite. Now, things are returning to normal, the mentality of pre-WWII.
Nonetheless, the alliance of Leftists with Islam remains the greatest danger. And that is because the Muslims will have no qualms in perpetrating another Holocaust. The Left will do it’s best to delegitimize Israel in the West, always hiding behind their BS humanitarian rhetoric & anti-Zionism.
Of course you have this phenomenon in the USA too — among the paleoconservative right. Aside from Pat Pukecannon there is L. Ron Paul, no friend of Israel he.
The main difference is that it’s (unlike in the UK) a fringe position among the US right, so those on the right who want to ignore the problem (e.g., because they agree with the paleocons on small government issues) can do so.
Personally, I see a certain similarity between the class-obsessed pomo left and the paleocon right. They both long for a society in which they are the privileged class and everybody else should know their “station”. The difference is who gets to be the high, middle, and low.
I see a certain similarity between the class-obsessed pomo left and the paleocon right. They both long for a society in which they are the privileged class and everybody else should know their “station”. The difference is who gets to be the high, middle, and low.
That’s it in a nutshell!
Or to put it another way, both the pomo “left” and the paleocon “right” are nostalgic for the Ancien Regime, i.e. they are both far-Right. The difference is who they think belongs to the Ancien Regime.
I agree with the premise of the article; anti-semitism is hardly an exclusively left wing phemomenon. However, from the Tory (Conservative) point of view, you would see Heseltine as very much on the left of the conservatives; he resigned from Thatchers government on the basis he wanted the government to support a “european” merger for the Westland helicopter company rather than allow a partial takeover of the company by Sikorsky. The Thatcherite wing of the Conservatives doesn’t have the same “ooooh, my invites to media parties will dry up if I say anything pro-Israeli” incentive to whine about “Zionists”.
I am glad that Rupert Fiennes made a distinction between Thatcherites (misnamed Tories, I think) and the paternalistic and aristocratic innovations starting with Christian Socialism in the U.K. I wrote about those whose forebears are Carlyle, Kingsley, and Burke here: http://clarespark.com/2009/10/29/the-enigmatic-face-of-philosemitism/. For the true Tory, liberalism sprouted both capitalism and communism, empowering troublemaking, innovating Jews. Students of English literature are very familiar with this theme, but not everyone sees social democracy as a conservative reform with aristocratic premises. (Not that many aristocrats did not adapt to capitalism.) Assimilating Jews in America are such anglophiles that when Trollope’s The Way We Live Now was dramatized by PBS, not a peep about the blatant antisemitism was uttered on this side of the pond.
Clare: I’m fairly certain that on most socio-political topics you and I would probably be in agreement. That said, I look forward to the day when you don’t include any self-referential aggrandizement (complete with obligatory link to your own web page) in your comments. From reading your input on these threads one gets the impression that 90% of the opinions/concepts/reports written by PJM contributors have apparently already been amply covered (no doubt more insightfully) by you on your own (no doubt more insightful) frikkin’ web page. Give the pimping a rest, hon.
Criticism of a nation does not automatically mean hatred of its people. Israel as a nation may desire to annex the West Bank and Gaza but if they do they would as a “democracy” have to allow the people there a right to vote which they do not want to do in fear that they would their national character as a jewish state. So this policy of invasive settlements without annexation is simply an effort to discourage the resident population from remaining there. The continuation of this idiotic policy has made not only the region unstable but created a threat to other parts of the world. Anti semitism like any form of racism is abhorrent; Israel was created out of the roots of racism against jews in Europe and elsewhere. This history makes many confuse criticism of a Israeli policies (which often are made with the intention that Israel can improve itself) with anti-semitism. Of course there are others who hide their racism under the banner of anti-zionism – but not all critics are racists.
Raj, your post contains so many distortions of fact I hardly know where to begin.
The history of the Jews and Israel neither began nor ended with the destruction of European Jewry. In fact there are Jewish communities in Israel that have lived on the land continuously for more than 2000 years. And the graves of our ancestors still are Holy places of worship to us and have been continuously for almost 4000 years. In fact the Jewish Tomb of the Patriarchs in Heron is the oldest public building in continuous use in the entire world. I will speak more of this in a few moments.
From 1400 to 1900 CE the Turks ruled but did not live in what was commonly called territorial Palestine. The Muslim Palestinians ( yes there are Jewish and Christian Palestinians too ) currently control 80% of the territory of Palestine. On that 80% they have three operating governments. One in Jordan, one in the West Bank and one in Gaza.
Despite the fact that Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Muslims refuse to recognize any Jewish rights what-so -ever.
The town of Hebron is a case in point. The Jewish neighborhood in Hebron comprises only 3% of the town. In that neighborhood 800 Jews live surrounded by 30,000 Muslims. Hebron and its religious sites have been holy to Jews for 2700 years before Mohammed was even born. Yet the Muslims wish to deny Jewish rights to worship in Hebron. The Israeli army is not called in to harass the muslim population. It is there to prevent a repeat of the the 1929 massacre when the muslims rioted and murdered Jewish men, women and children.
It is time for people to look at the history of Palestine and ask themselves the following- Why do the Palestinians require more than the 80% of Palestine they already control? Why do the Palestinians refuse to recognize Jewish rights to areas that were Jewish before Mohammed was born? Why are the Palestinians so interested in building on top of Christian and Jewish Holy sites? Why have the Palestinians driven the Christian community from Bethlehem? Why do the Palestinians indoctrinate their children to hate rather than live in peace?
As far as muslims living in Israel there is an answer for that as well. There is a realistic solution-
The world community believes in violent population transfer.
Helen Thomas and Hamas both want the Jews out of the Middle East.
Thomas wants the Jews transferred to Poland.
Hamas wants Jews transferred to the middle of the ocean where there there is no tree to hide a Jew if he is chased by murderers.
They are proponents of violent transfer.
Thomas , with her , ” Get the hell out! ” and Hamas with their baby killing.
Different, to be sure, but the intent, identical.
That is true ethnic cleansing .
On the other hand non violent population transfer has been done before.
I am a proponent of non-violent population transfer.
In fact the very first High Commissioner for Refugees of the League of Nations, Fridtjof Nansen , received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1922 for ending a war that seemed intractable by using non violent population transfer..
” In 1919, he ( Nansen ) became president of the Norwegian Union for the League of Nations and at the Peace Conference in Paris was an influential lobbyist for the adoption of the League Covenant and for recognition of the rights of small nations. From 1920 until his death he was a delegate to the League from Norway.? ? In June, 1921, the Council of the League appointed Nansen its first High Commissioner for Refugees. Stateless refugees recieved a ” Nansen Passport ” , a document of identification which was eventually recognized by fifty-two governments. In the nine-year life of this Office, Nansen ministered to hundreds of thousands of refugees – Russian,Turkish, Armenian, Assyrian, Assyro-Chaldean – utilizing the methods that were to become classic: custodial care, repatriation, rehabilitation, resettlement, emigration, integration.? ? In 1922 at the request of the Greek government and with the approval of the League of Nations, Nansen tried to solve the problem of the Greek refugees who poured into their native land from their homes in Asia Minor after the Greek army had been defeated by the Turks. Nansen arranged an exchange of about 1,250,000 Greeks living on Turkish soil for about 500,000 Turks living in Greece, with appropriate indemnification and provisions for giving them the opportunity for a new start in life.” Nobel Prize Website
IN 1922 FRIDTJOF NANSEN WAS AWARDED THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE .
” We all know from the history books of the exchange of Turks and Greeks, which took place after World War I when, after the war ended, there was a further war between Greece and Turkey, at the end of which, the Greek and Turkish governments agreed on an exchange of populations. And as it appears in the history books, the Greek minority in Turkey was sent to Greece; the Turkish minority in Greece was sent to Turkey. That’s what it says in the history books. But if you look at the treaty in which this agreement was incorporated, it says something different. The parties to be exchanged are defined as Turkish subjects of the Greek Orthodox faith and Greek subjects of the Muslim faith. And if you look more closely at who the people actually were, they were, to a very large extent, Turkish-speaking Orthodox Christians from Turkey and Greek-speaking Muslims from Greece. This was not an exchange of two ethnic minorities. It was a deportation of two religious minorities. ”
Prof. Bernard Lewis, April. 27, 2006 interview, Pew Forum
Ninety-nine and one-half percent of the middle east is muslim. There are enormous swathes of empty land throughout the Arab world. A fraction of the money spent on war would build one thousand Beverly Hills’ for refugees who wanted to move.
There are people all over the world looking for better homes and opportunities. Are the Palestinians all of the same mind? No single Palestinian wants a new villa, a new school for his children, and the money to start a bakery?
There is plenty of money for flagship properties in London. Boutique hotels for the privileged instead of cities for the Palestinians? Why?
What if some Palestinians wish to remain where they are in Israel? They can. Their reason would be their business. No need to justify or argue. You want to stay? Stay
Where people wish to remain they should be able to do so as citizens of Jordan, which already controls seventy-seven percent of territorial Palestine. If Jordan wishes to change its name to Palestine, as the late King Hussein Ibn Talal suggested, that is its right. In any case as long as Israeli laws are not broken there is no reason for Palestinians to move. If, on the other hand, they wish to live in an islamic country under sharia law they are only a twenty mile bus ride from Amman.
Perhaps there are other countries that would allow applications for citizenship. I don’t know.
Muslims all over the world are on the move. Only the Palestinians stay put?
Hamas wants the Palestinians in Gaza to stay put. They are its hostage.
That is why true humanitarian relief for Gaza would be getting the people out, not the concrete in.
When Jordan, which occupies 77% of Palestine, is asked to accept its historical obligations, there will be a real opportunity for peace in the region.
I could go on Raj but I hope my comments opened your eyes. MBY
Please excuse my typo the sentence above should read-
” In fact the Jewish Tomb of the Patriarchs in HEBRON is the oldest public building in continuous use in the entire world. I will speak more of this in a few moments. “
The left’s hatred of Israel is a relatively recent phenomenon. Lefties didn’t have a problem with Israel when it was a small besieged country embrancing the principles of the kibbutz. The left turned against Israel when Arafat and the PLO started cloaking their campaign against Israel in Marxist rhetoric, at the same time as Israel was become powerful, modern, wealthy and more closely allied with the US.
On the other hand, the anti-semitism of the British upper classes and European elites in general has been around since the first Jews arrived in Europe; it transcends left-right divides and all other political and economic considerations.
Virtually anyone who is not a Christian hates Israel.
Yes, yes, i can hear you now. But my friend is a Christian, you say. Or, that commentator on tv that hates Israel says he’s a Christian, you might also say.
There may be a some Christians who get so wrapped up in the world and politics that they care more for those things than their Christianity.
Or,
Just because someone says they are a Christian don’t necessarily make it so.
I am sorry. I know personally many Christians who are quite devout, church going, bible reading and quoting who loathe Jews in general and Israel in particular.
As a pastor of mine used to say, living in a barn does not make you a cow. Going to church does not make you a Christian.
Anyone who loathes others, is not a Christian and has no understanding of the Bible.
I’m sorry Carol, but this doesn’t ring true at all. No doubt there are anti-semites on the British right, just as there are racists, homophobes and xenophobes, but the phenomenon is far from being widespread.
The right-wing, or ‘Tory’ press in England is generally pro-Israel. Melanie Phillips and Kelvin Mackenzie are certainly not the only conservatives to stand up for the Jewish state in the media. Others include Charles Moore, Tim Montgomerie, Douglas Murray, Fraser Nelson, Stephanie Gutmann, Nile Gardiner, Stephen Pollard, Paul Staines…and that’s just off the top of my head.
Key members of the Conservative party such as David Cameron, George Osborne and Michael Gove are also pro-Israel and have said as much. That they have criticised Israeli actions does not disprove this. The only realistic support to offer to another country or political body is a qualified one, and the endless stream of blunders and PR disasters that emanate from Israel (latest being Netenyahu’s taped comments) is enough to try the patience of the most instinctively pro-Israel among us.
The fact that you heard a businessman making antisemitic remarks doesn’t prove that the British right is a hotbed of anti-jewish sentiment. If you want to know the state of opinion on the British right, look at publications like the Telegraph, the Spectator and Standpoint. Look at the Conservative party itself. The fact that you ignore the commentators I mentioned above to focus on unrepresentative (and generally unpolitical) figures like Brian Sewell and Richard Ingrams suggests that you are trying rather hard to make a particular case. More balance in future, please.
Pretty pathetic with that Ingrams guy, tossing out letters to the editor with “Jewish sounding” last names. Intellectually juvenile, feeble.
It reminds me of something I observed on the O’Reilly show. He had on two other Fox News talents to discuss something related to Christmas. One of them was Greg Gutfeld, who operates the Red Eye program in the dead of night. Can’t remember the other — maybe Juliet Huddy.
After discussing the week’s outrages, he was rebellious enough to wish Juliet Huddy, “Merry Christmas!” but sufficiently clueless to wish Greg Gutfeld, “Happy Chanukah!”
To which Gutfeld exclaimed, “Dude, I’m Catholic!”
Smooth move, O’Reilly.
So Bill O’Reilly wiped out by (a) not doing his homework on his guests, and (b) falling for the stereotype of a “Jewish sounding” last name.
But that was one off for O’Reilly, not a systematic procedure that this Ingrams goombah can describe to Robin Shepherd in an interview.
Seconding Xcontra’s comment: that business about Ingrams was the one thing that made me laugh.
I grew up in New York with Jewish neighbors named Smiley; a Filipino Catholic family in our parish here in Chicago is named … Simon. Mark Steyn and Kathy Shaidle, who are not Jewish, seem to be regularly assumed to be so by their detractors. And I wonder what would happen if Mr. Ingrams received a letter from Arieh O’Sullivan?
Madame Gould,
This is not a trolling post, but an honest question from a non-American.
It is interesting to compare your article with regards to the (renewed?) debate on racism in the US.
As someone familiar with both sides of the Atlantic, would you say antisemitism is worse in the UK than racism in the US? Or is it the other way around? (or, for that matter, about the same?)
As part of the question, I guess one could ask, how do you measure racism and antisemitism? I think we can agree that random idiotic comments from key officials, celebrities and others is not a good measure. Should we look at polling data? The goals and consequences of policies? Any other ideas?
Thanks for helping to clarify the debate and discussions.
styx
Part 2
In the case of Christians, it also has to do with what is known as “replacement theology”, too. This is a belief that Christianity replaced Judaism and the Jews should never have gone back to their the land, because they had no right to it. You can see how this leads them directly to the conclusion that it’s all the Jews fault.
Most evangelicals hold to the belief that Christianity did not replace Judaism and that the Jews going back to the land was prophesied and is a sign of the endtimes.
If you want to pin one of the former down, just ask them what the Jews are supposed to do. If they were honest, you’d get the Helen Thomas answer, but since they don’t want to look like ogres, they slip slide into some other answer that doesn’t sound as bad. But, the truth is, if you follow their beliefs, what other answer is there but the Helen Thomas answer?
Her ear’s a bit off, perhaps because she’s trying too hard (”Most of my circle is…wealthy”). The hatred of Israel by the Brit ruling classes — Tory toffs to oiks like Galloway and Prescott, it seems to make no difference — is unthinking and automatic, which oddly helps make it less sinister. It’s a type of hate that often dissipates fast in the face of a simple challenge: Why do you hate Jews? The most you’ll likely hear in reply is incoherent mumbling about (rare nowadays)’the King David Hotel’ and (more common)a Palestinian homeland. In the world of pure hate it adds up to a small hill of beans. I’ve met Heseltine and I don’t like him, but I’d hesitate to label him anti-Semitic. Sometimes, a jerk is just a jerk.
The visceral hatred that drives British Jews into the shadows, wisely in my view, though it’s easy to say from my WASPy pearch, comes from the odd union of the far left, Islam and the Brit MSM — above all, the BBC/Guardian/Independent axis.
Carol, you are making a mistake also. What we call “the left” here in the States and what you call “the left” in the UK aren’t quite the same thing. By our standards pretty much all of your people are on the left, including your Tories. Over here, what characterizes the difference between the left and the right is the left’s dedication to statism, the inexorable increase of government control until totalitarianism results, and the right’s dedication to individualism, the belief that people have a right to as little interference in their lives from a coercive government as possible. From what we can see, “the left” in the UK are the proponents of international socialism, while “the right” believe that Britons should be able to run their own socialism without outside interference. But neither side is concerned with the fundamental rights of individuals versus the state, which is the defining point of the difference between the left and the right over here. To us, you’re all on the left. Well, maybe not you in particular, but I think you get my drift.
From what we can see, “the left” in the UK are the proponents of international socialism, while “the right” believe that Britons should be able to run their own socialism without outside interference.
That is a very coarse first approximation. A slightly less coarse approximation is that “the left” in the UK are proponents of socialism and multiculturalism, while “the right” are proponents of feudalism.
Both anti-capitalists, but qualitatively different: placing them on the American left/right axis is a gross over-simplification.
You don’t realize that you’re making my point. Call it feudalism, socialism, whatever…they’re just varieties of statism, control of the populace by an aristocracy that isn’t beholden to the same rules as the populace. Far from being a gross over-simplification, it’s a spot-on explanation of the difference of the European “left/right” axis and the US one.
Sorry, but I insist on the distinction between socialism and feudalism, though I agree that they can both legitimately be called Statism. The difference that I see is that socialists want central planning and feudalists want the State to maintain the status quo: feudalists are “conservatives”.
This is practically relevant. There are indeed people in Britain who “believe that Britons should be able to run their own socialism without outside interference”. They used to vote for Labour; now they vote for the BNP. It has been shown that the BNP has been gaining votes at the expense of Labour, not the Conservatives.
Dear Carol,
You write “But there was one boo-boo. Glenn kept repeating over and over his contention that the left are the perpetrators of Israel-hatred and anti-Semitism. This is simply not true.”
Really? The way you write your article one would think Brits in general do nothing else but badmouth Jews and Israel. The left in conjunction with the Islamists PLUS the tunnel visioned mission of SOME of the New Labour politicians not wishing to upset Muslims – all of these factors must be taken into consideration.
You write “Perhaps one has to live outside the United States to understand the complexities of Israel-hatred, but without a shadow of a doubt it does not confine itself to the left.”
Less of the patronising attitude, Carol, if you please.The United States does not have a monopoly on world views, we in the UK also “know what’s what”, and we know very well what is and what definitely isn’t anti-Semitism.
Carol – Lord Heseltine cannot be described as a “doyen” in these times. You’re engaging in the usual knee-jerk rhetoric “they “hate” Israel so they MUST be anti-Semitic” claptrap. To you anybody who is remotely critical of anything Israel does, and has the temerity to say so – is an anti-Semite. This is over-used currency, and has been for a long time. It’s dangerous, too, because it’s being used to stifle free and honest discussion of what is and what isn’t Jew-hatred. I have plenty to say about Israel’s mistakes, the corruption of its government, the chances it’s missed for peace. I really don’t mind who I say it to, either. I am Jewish and I support Israel – so it’s therefore safe to assume that I’m one of those “self-haters”, is it?
Left wing DNA????? What on earth are you talking about? Next you’ll be saying “Brits imbibe Jew hatred with their mothers’ milk”. Wrong. I am a proud Jew who lives among non-Jews. We get on, and can discuss anything. They know I support Israel but it doesn’t stop them telling me what they think, we discuss, debate, and we are still friends. Do you know why? It’s simple – because of me they can see a Zionist Jew who is PREPARED to discuss what is right and what is wrong with Israel, and does not stoop to accusations of “anti-Zionism being anti-Israelism” to stifle debate.
Might I suggest that one of the reasons why Carol finds it almost impossible to find anybody who supports Israel, among her colleagues and friends – is that she herself comes across as an “Israel right or wrong” person. I’m sure she “digs in” with her attitude, waves it like a big banner, almost daring people to disagree with her so she can jump down their throats. Nothing like a bombastic tunnel visioned individual with attitude to make those who’d be prepared to listen to reason jump off the fence and go with the opposition.
It’s not worth going into the influence of the Israel Lobby here. The Lobby does wield influence, saying it doesn’t is like saying there’s no nose on one’s face, and trying to deny the Lobby hasn’t always acted in anybody’s interests but its own is also denying the obvious. It’s not a lie to say, either that the Lobby’s antics have opened the doors for similar Muslim lobbies to copy its behaviour.
Thank God that Carol Gould is one of a dying breed of beings who is happy to cultivate and maintain an anachronistic attitude to how Jews are perceived in the 21st century.
Come and see me here in the UK any time, Carol. I’ll introduce you to my non-Jewish friends and neighbours. Say you support Israel, by all means – they won’t foam at the mouth and go for your jugular, they’ll say what they think. If you behave in your usual inimitable way, and tell them they’re anti-Semitic if they dare disagree with you – you have only yourself to blame if the temperature goes to below zero, and you won’t be invited again. Not because they hate Jews – but because your attitude convinces them it’s not worth talking to a bigot.
RE Bev: “The way you write your article one would think Brits in general do nothing else but badmouth Jews and Israel.”
You are precisely correct. Antisemitism is a pastime, a hobby, an expression of group solidarity with non-Jews with no cost to the antisemitic participant. It is mean spirited and self-serving and destructive. It does not have to be justified, merely stated and good things happen. Status rises, winks and nods are exchanged, life becomes more pleasant and understandable. Then you can get on with the rest of your living. To Jews, antisemitism is important, just as to blacks, racial issues are central. The majority, whatever it is, is just fine.
One anecdote I’d like to add : a middle-aged, conservative friend told me he attended a school reunion; his equally conservative old headmaster asked him what he was doing and he said he was studying Hebrew to train for the Christian ministry. The headmaster recoiled, saying ‘Good God, Hebrew? Hebrew?’ and launched into a rant about the fact that there were ‘entirely too many Jews in the Tory party’ and that ‘that Oliver Letwin [prominent Jewish Tory] needs to be left out of any Cabinet’ etc etc. My friend was quite shocked and told me Anglo-Jewry would have been proud of him as he fiercely defended them, but the headmaster was without remorse for his comments.
The only thing that the extreme left and extreme right agree on is Jew hatred. Just look at the alliance between the Jihadists and the western socialist/communist left. Britain, especially has a long tradition of Jew hatred. Remember the massacre at York in 1190 and the subsequent exile of Jews from England altogether. Besides, Europe and England are already lost to the Muslim invasion of the latest Crusade. The Tories are playing to their constituency.
Near as I can tell, a British or Canadian Tory (conservative) is what we’d call a centrist democrat in the US, so this isn’t really much of a revelation.
Does anyone in the U.K. believe in the Bible? Long ago, Government replaced God in the U.K. Monty Python made a fortune ridiculing God and religion. No wonder “conservatives” find no basis to support Israel in Britain. Your “churchgoer”(which I’ll bet took you some time to find)is obviously not reading the same Bible we read in the States. Tell your “churchgoer” to actually read the Bible, and find out how it turns out for countries that oppose Israel, God’s chosen people.
“Heseltine is a conservative and very rich with absolutely no left-wing DNA.”
Drivel of the highest order. There’s nothing remotely conservative about Michael Heseltine (he’s a member and patron of the ‘Tory Reform Group’ – look that one up, and his wealth’s got absolutely nothing to do with anything, either).
“Most of my circle is Tory (conservative) and wealthy. These are decent folk who would rather perish than support left-wing and socialist causes”
Again, the modern British Conservative Party isn’t conservative or Right-wing what… so… ever. And, again, what’s money got to do with anything? Real social, cultural, and moral conservatism isn’t about wealth.
Seriously, if you’re interested in British politics, read Peter Hitchens instead. He’s the best journalist in my country.
The Tories are still useless, and if you really want to get Labour out, you should not vote Tory
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2007/10/the-tories-are-.html
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
Perhaps Glenn Beck ought to have used the word ‘Statist’ rather than Leftist. In the US, there are very few right-wing Statists and free enterprise supporters, by definition are anti-Statist, while there do exist ‘conservative, capitalist Statists’. I don’t recognize the names from the UK and have no clue as to their politics.
I do recognize and know the names from the US, Robert Byrd, Chuck Hagel and Pat Buchanan.
The recently decease Sen. Robert Byrd from West Virginia was most famed for his pork-barreling ways of taking every cent he could from the US government budget and putting it into West Virginia. Just travel through West Virginia, the former KKK Grand Kleagle has every other bridge, highway and post office named after himself. This is hardly the record for a pro-Capitalist, conservative. Byrd voted for ObamaCare and every Big Government scam that came down the chute.
Former Sen. Chuck Hagel was a former Democrat, who changed his party to run for the US Senate from Nebraska. He is a Leftist to the left of the ‘maverick’ John McCain at the height of his representation as the Senator from the Media.
Pat Buchanan was converted to ‘economic populism’ during his presidential campaign against the first President Bush. Buchanan opposed NAFTA, other free trade deals and supports protectionism. Again, not the record of a pro-Capitalist, conservative.
One final point, just because someone is rich and made their money in the capitalist market, does not make them supporters of the Free Market. In fact, many of these people support government action to protect their wealth, by pulling up the free enterprise drawbridge, so that others can’t do to them, what their did to their competitors.
Bottom line, if you oppose capitalism (economic freedom), you are also likely to oppose Israel. And the supporters of economic freedom, poor or rich, also tend to support Israel.
Pat Buchanan
Spot on, Jabba.
I think there is definitely a significant correlation between anti-semitism and anti-capitalism. This may at least partly explain the correlation between anti-semitism and anti-Americanism that continental Europeans, such as Bernard-Henri Levy, have observed.
Athena, August Bebel was one of the founders and great promoters of socialism in Germany from 1864 until his death in 1913. His famous quote is “anti-semitism is the socialism of fools”. This recognitions goes back at least 100 years. And as a practical matter, if you a free market capitalist, you would have to carry out your prejudice against Jews at your own cost, if you refused to buy, sell or do business with them. Anti-semites typically want to gain control of government, so they can force people to share their prejudice and not be able to use the free market as a way around the bigotry.
The PLO were HUGE financial supporters of the IRA but I’ll bet Lord Heseltine simply AFORES the “Palestinians”.
Sorry – I’ll bet Lord H. ADORES the Palis.
Carol is absolutely correct in that there are elements in the right that are plainly anti-Semitic. But as a whole, they are isolated and currently do not represent as much of a threat as do the left wing nutjobs. The alliance between the far-left and the Islamofascists is a long and storied affair. Unfortunately, the leftists have gained power, not only in Congress and the WH, but in European politics, the media, and universities everywhere.
Sure, there are the few Aryan supremicists such as Buchannan, but by in-large they are easily identifiable and their threat can be contained. The majority of conservatives in the U.S. are pro-Israel and in fact the evangelicals are perhaps Israel’s most ardent supporters. Unfortunately, American-Jewish support of the beleaguered nation has been waining due in large part to the leftist influence in Jewish circles. In fact two Jew-hating Jews are heartbeats away from the POTUS (Axeldoofus and Rhambo). To me, this is the bigger story.
Finally, while the Beck special was indeed special, it downplayed not only the historical basis to the Jewish connection to Israel, but it ignored all of the important events leading up to the founding of the modern state of Israel. There is a treasure trove of irrefutable information occurred in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that substantiates the legitimacy of the State of Israel (Balfour Declaration, San Remo Conference, etc.)
It is not very hard to find radical anti-semitism right here in the USA,and it worries me that we have become so hateful towards a country that has been our ally since their inception. I am hoping this anger comes from those younger people who hear what others are saying and join in because they don’t want to be on the outside looking in.
There is a deep undercurrent of anti-capitalism in Britain (or, at least, in England) that cuts across political divides. The best way to understand this is to read English Culture and the Decline of the Industrial Spirit, by Martin Wiener. (I should add that I myself lived and worked in England for almost a decade: I didn’t just read the book.)
When many if not most people on both “left” and “right” are anti-capitalists deep inside, it is hardly surprising that antisemitism can be found on both sides.
Nor is being a capitalist an insurance against being anti-capitalist: just look at George Soros!
I understand that Pat Buchanan is no friend of capitalism, either. (I don’t know about Byrd and Hagel.)
As for the independent financial advisor, he might be an exception to the widespread British anti-capitalism, but he is obviously a conspiracy theorist, and therefore not somebody I would trust with my money.
We must distinguish between “the left”, socialism, and anti-capitalism. Obviously all socialists are anti-capitalists; but not all anti-capitalists are, strictly speaking, socialists. As for “the left”, that is a matter of definition, or self-definition. I wrote some thoughts on this from a Hayekian perspective here:
http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/07/beck-u#comment_1790658
Left and Right are fairly meaningless terms anyway, mostly used as a form of abuse.
just goes to show that stupid people come in all stripes.
Ms. Gould,
As an American Jew who is a libertarian/conservative and staunch Zionist I appreciate all the work you have done. But I think you are a bit off the mark in your focus here. You have to remember that Glenn Beck plays to an American audience.
While you have given lots of examples of conservative British anti-semitism, it is primarily on a personal and a private level. While that is no less reprehensible and needs to be fought, it is a different beast from those who march through the streets and make public their anti-Semitic and anti-Israel crusade. Additionally, wouldn’t it be accurate to say that that attitude infects a cross-section of British society and is hardly unique to your pro-market friends? Across the pond, we can’t observe that latent prejudice – and while it is poisonous to British society, it has less of an impact on the international conversation than the behavior of the harpies on the left.
So if I may be so bold as to channel my inner Glenn Beck, I doubt he would disagree with your contention that anti-Semitism and anti-Israel atittudes permeate all levels of British society. However, the vocal activism is the province of the left, as he stated in his program. And that is what makes headlines and shapes world opinion.
You are correct sir ( or madam, or whatever )
“The late Senator Robert Byrd was never an Israel enthusiast….”
Neither were many in Congress – or the White House – in the 50s or early 60s. This from Wikipedia:
“Eager to increase its influence in the region, and prevent Nasser from going over to the Soviet Bloc, U.S. policy was to remain neutral and not become too closely allied with Israel. In the early 1960s, the U.S. would begin to sell advanced, but defensive, weapons to Israel, Egypt and Jordan, including Hawk anti aircraft missiles.”
Sorry, I made a typing error in my post – should have read “Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism”
Carol – your obsession with anti-Semitism is blinding you to what the problem really is here in the UK. The problem is – anti-Kuffarism – not just towards Jews but towards all non-Muslim Brits. Stop this self-absorption, please, and soon. Get yourself a wider outlook. There are too many Jews like you, who see the world totally through their own perspective – what is good for us, as Jews? I used to be like that, then I started really seeing how non-Jewish people viewed this attitude, it’s the total self-absorption of some Jewish communities which fosters resentment. We are all citizens of the UK. Before all the multiculturalism/diversity celebrating rubbish came on the scene, we got on with our lives and in the main got on with each other. When we came across Jew-hatred it was dealt with, in exactly the same way Catholics dealt with hatred from Protestants and vice versa.
Strange as it may seem – for every Brit who isn’t keen on Jews, there are just as many who have no problems with us. People like you who see Jew-hatred everywhere make many non-Jews frightened to open their mouths and ask totally innocent questions in case you think they’re anti-Semitic. They also demand “race-hate” legislation with effectively robs the ordinary down to earth and not in the least racist Brits of their right to free speech. Then, the Muslims, ever opportunists watch what’s going on and demand the same. Honestly, Carol – if you were a non-Jew would you exactly love us in the present climate?
Do yourself and us the favour of adopting the attitude that “if it’s good for us Jews it’s got to be good for Brits, too” – that is if you don’t intend to make Aliyah, in that’s case this whole diatribe of yours is immaterial. Try reaching out to non-Jews, too – you never know when you’ll need friends if the Caliphate arrives in Britain.
“Try reaching out to non-Jews, too – you never know when you’ll need friends if the Caliphate arrives in Britain.”
Puhleeease! Most Brits hate Jews far more than they will ever hate Muslims. However much they might fear said Caliphate, if it creates a UK (and world) free of Jews, you and I both know that Brits will overwhelmingly accept it.
Lord Heseltine -; it is deplorable that NorAid supporters in Boston sent even one penny to the terror group but I wager 99% of Americans lamented this too’
I don’t recall 99% of Americans condemning it.
Are you really saying that Heseltine is anti-semitic? What exactly did he say to lead you to that conclusion.
The debate on question time was about the release of the Lockerbie bomber.This was
being condemned here and in Scotland.
When American’s started doing this,
http://boycottscotland.com/
That included the Scottish small businesses who make tartan, they had being targeted to receive punishment.
When Americans started to lecture us on terrorism the hypocrisy was astounding.
It wasn’t just Noraid he was referring to,
Carter wouldn’t sell weapons to the R.U.C when Thatcher asked. Who was furious and he wouldn’t condemn the murder of Lord Mountbatten.
Please read.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8418150.stm
He’s objecting to the U.S giving visa’s to known terrorist to fund raise against our wishes.Americans paid thousands to sit next to and have a photo taken with these I.R.A members.
Rudi Giuliani even gave Gerry Adams an award,please read,
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/29/nyregion/at-city-hall-an-ira-leader-gets-a-warm-reception.html
Libya and America were the biggest supplier of weapons to arm the terrorist .
Again please read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_arms_importation
The U.S had a policy of granting political asylum to wanted and escaped terrorist’s so refusing to extradite them.
The U.S didn’t recognise our law and order and judicial system like it is some third world country.
Even naming a street in New York after an escaped murderer.
Inviting these leaders to the Whitehouse time after time,our security service didn’t trust yours because information was getting back to the I.R.A.
Peter King an outspoken advocate against Islamic terrorists is still supporting them.
http://kingwatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/king-gets-hypocritical-on-illegal-irish.html
Does that sound like a ‘special relationship’.?
The U.S has always stood firmly with Israel.Yourself and posters here hate the British people.
I have never read comments here about Israel delieved with such bile that you give about us.
Nobody cares about our support in Afghanistan and Iraq .Our soldiers deaths are never mentioned here,Israel’s losses are.
You have a special relationship with Israel,Hestletine is right ,why is that anti-semitic?
You must of missed Depatches,
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-42/episode-1
It claimed that 50% of the Tory cabinet are supporters of the Israeli lobby group.
The Pro-Israel lobby bankroll’s the Tories.
“The late Senator Robert Byrd was never an Israel enthusiast and anyone who associated him with the left had to be nuts.”
On the contrary. You have that exactly backwards.
@ 13. Bev
==
Bev, I have to say that psychologically you’ve very naive, bordering on the stupid. Has it ever occurred to you to ask yourself why is it that these people are so interested in what goes on in Israel. Why is it that not a day goes by that this subject is broached, and done so in the most underhanded and libelous manner. Ask yourself, why isn’t Saudia discussed on the news. Why isn’t turkey. Why isn’t Egypt and it’s treatment of the cops. Why isn’t Syria, Lebanon, etc. What is this psychological fascination with the Joooooooooos? Why the constant withering scrutiny and blatant double standard? I think that when finally start asking yourself these questions, analyse and try to arrive at an honest answer, you’ll finally understand what antisemitism is.
Bravo Mika!
Its only preparation for the time when all eyes will turn in wonder.
In this dreary and uncertain world, there is at least one constant and that is anti Semitism. Indeed, there are countries like Japan with almost no Jews at all which are pillars of anti Semitism.
Jew hatred is so widespread that it almost has the characteristics of a communicable mental disease.
But unlike other communicable diseases, anti Semitism doesn’t have a cure.
“Leftists Aren’t the Only Perpetrators of Anti-Semitism in the World”
Hey, I’m kind of agreeing with the Brits here!
This article is hysterical, and has no insight. Here’s some: Right-wing anti-semites don’t care about Israel, save the occasional one like Buchanan. Left-wing anti-semites don’t have bad feelings about Jews on a personal basis so much, their hate is channeled as “anti-zionism” and is part of their identity make-up, a carry over from the Cold war and the Moscow-line anti-zionist campaign, circa 1967 and there on.
Ted Kennedy was one of the biggest terorist supporters ever in Congress. That is a cold fact.
I apologize to our British visitors here.
I don’t think anti-Semitism (and here I am making a distinction between that and anti-Zionism) is a left/right issue in the UK. There has long been an undercurrent of anti-Semitism there, just as there has long been a streak of anti-Papism. Perhaps the latter could be traced back to Elizabeth I and Philip of Spain, the Armada, Bloody Mary, but I really am at a loss to understand the source of the former. In any event, both cut across political and class lines, and regardless of how deep beneath the surface they are, Jews are probably safer in the UK than they are across the Channel in Europe.
Glenn makes some good points despite his over the top delivery- but he has lost credibility with me due his labeling of Geert Wilders as a FASCIST
and his recent statement that Jews killed Jesus (most likely a Mormon thing)
I have heard his views are more accurately described as Libertarian than
Conservative Rep. So while I do agree with him on some things and I appreciate his education of USA in history, I do not subscribe lock stock and barrel to everything he says.
Or, as Tom Lehrer put it more than 40 years ago:
Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews.
Judging by history
Great Britain has a very ugly past concerning JEWS
despite Balfour support for helping them win WW1
when push came to shove they armed the Arabs- Isarel survived despite their “help”
and the Irish ?? they openly hate JEWs but call it anti Zionist or “Israel criticism” the usual sematic sleight of hand for jewhaters worldwide
they love their MUSLIMS and now they can be colonized by them- turnabout fair play
Isahaiah 62
Not sure what you mean about it being “a Mormon thing” to assert that Jews killed Jesus. Our Scriptures, like most of my acquaintance, state quite clearly that Pontius Pilate did so.
Certain Jewish leaders of the day were certainly involved, but the last Sunday School lesson I heard on that subject pointed out that Jesus’ trial, as described in the Gospels, violated Jewish law in all sorts of ways.
Speaking as a (British) Latter-day Saint of 15 years standing, I have yet to hear any antisemitic remark at Church, and I’d have thought the Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 29: 5-6) took a pretty clear stand on antisemitism
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have acursed them, and have bhated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A aBible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
Nice job Mike — the more I learn about the Mormons, the more I like them (I’m an Israel-can-do-no-wrong American Jew).
– FF
While I wouldn’t say that UK Jew-hatred is primarily on the right (I think it is strong throughout the entire political spectrum, but stronger on the UK/BBC/Guardian left), there is no doubt that the GREATEST DIFFERENCE between the American right and the British right is our view on Israel.
Except for the Paleocons, it is practically an article of faith in the GOP to support Israel to the hilt.
Who on the UK right is similarly inclined to give Israel the benefit of the doubt? Daniel Hannan, maybe. Which is why, for all his articulateness, he might be a UK Parliamentarian, but can never be PM.
To be a leader in the UK – Labor, Tory or LDP – is to love Arabs and to push for a second and final Holocaust against the Jews, never mind that the price you’d pay for such a calamity could possibly be Israeli nukes obliterating your cities.
Brits, like Continentals simply are incapable of thinking rationally on the subject of Jews. They care more about exterminating Jews than they do their own existence.
Insightful!
I meant Balfour was thanking Jews for invention of acetone that helped Britain win the war
despite Balfour support for helping them win WW1
was unclear
“helping them” referred to Jews helping Brits
The late Senator Robert Byrd was never an Israel enthusiast and anyone who associated him with the left had to be nuts. The same goes for Republican former Senator Chuck Hagel.
How could you not figure Byrd to be a lefty? He had an ADA rating of 95 percent. He voted for every big gub fiscal program for which he had a chance. He was pro abortion. He voted against Clarence Thomas.
With regard to Hagel, when National Review lables you “the senator from France” and it is conservative primary opposition that pushes you to retirement, well, you really can’t say you exemplify conservatives.
I’ll give you Pat, but the anti-semite conservatives are few and far between especially among those motivated by religion, while on the left they are a dime a dozen.
Name me one liberal left who is a true anti-semite.
Javelino: Name me one liberal left who is a true anti-semite.
The late Sen. Robert Byrd. Oh that’s right you don’t count him as a lefty 95 ADA rating, Democrat leader, support for 0-care, pro-abort aside.
Jimmy Carter
Jesse Jackson
Jeremiah Wright
Al Sharpton
Umm, cough, cough, Helen Thomas
Certainly more than one for you to mull around.
Hey, how about Barry 0 himself?
You know even Mel Gibson hates Dubya & Republicans (but I won’t call him a lefty)
Galloway.
@ 31. mags
==
You’re living in an Orwellian cuckooland. But that’s what you get when the BBC, NYT, etc, are sources of information.
Who is it that bankrolls the jihadis in Israel, if not the anglo-american imperialists? Who is it that supplies the Jihadi states surrounding Israel with weapons, money, political support, if not the anglo-american imperialists? Egypt alone receives 90% of what Israel receives. And then there’s Jordan, Saudia, Turkey, Yemen, Pakistan, etc. All of them could turn on Israel in an instant. But without the anglo-american imperialists these jihadi entities would dissolve into chaos and oblivion.
We talk about British society, because British society is infected from top to bottom with said malevolent attitude. It’s institutional. Btw, you may not be aware of this, but the BBC and all the other British MSM propaganda outlets are appendages of the British SIS. Same in the US. The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, ABC, CBC, etc., are all propaganda appendages of the of the American CIA. Why you know see and hear is what they want to know see and hear. So when I see the constant and never-ending anti-Israel propaganda coming from these media outlets, I know, 100% of it is the government mafia that’s responsible. They direct and dictate the propaganda narrative. See: The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People by John Loftus by Mark Aarons. Only, to those of us that are not death dumb and blind and have two brain cells to rub together it’s no secret. Rather, it’s a matter of open plain to see policy. And has been so for a long time.
Sorry. I don’t usually bother to correct my typing and mangled sentences, but this one is too disjointed to leave as is:
“Why you know see and hear is what they want to know see and hear”, should read: “What you know see and hear is what they want you to know see and hear.”
Gee I was wondering when the Right would stop this fantasy that the Left is the locus of anti-Semitism. At one time, the Left was at least 40% Jewish anyways. All those anti-Semites I met growing up, none of them could remotely be called Left, more like they were the forerunners of today’s ignorant right. From my experience, with most of those people the unifying thread was Roman Catholicism. The Prots could be bigots too, but their anti-Semitism was more of a pecking order arrangement, where the Jews were less than desirable types like Italians, not subhuman or the anti-Christ.
More ill-researched twaddle from Carol Gould. It’s pretty rich to blame a whole country, or even a political party within it, for the failings of Gould’s understandably select circle of friends. Talking of being selective, Gould’s choice of examples shows either that she has no grasp of British politics, or that she is depending on pulling the wool over the eyes of the Pajamas readership. Is Michael Heseltine representative of the Conservative Party? Well, hardly. He is notorious for being prepared to sell out Britain to absolutely any mad idea from Brussels and his euromania leads to knee-jerk anti-Americanism. This led to his precipitate exit from Mrs Thatcher’s government (yes, we are going back a bit), when he violently disagreed with government policy over the Westland helicopter company. Heseltine, true to form, favoured a “European” course of action, while his principal opponent, Leon Brittan, backed an “American” one. I suspect that that, combined with Heseltine’s existing euro-obsession, is what most colours his outlook now. (I will save Gould a trip to wikipedia by adding that Leon Brittan is a Jew, but he is also an obsessive euroloon in the Heseltine mould and that is the defining characteristic of both of them.) Heseltine was last in a position of political power, by the way, rather more than thirteen years ago. I think Gould forgot to mention that.
As for the others… Lady Birdbrain? Yes, she was repellent and completely bonkers and represented no-one. Richard Ingrams? I doubt if he has ever voted Conservative in his life. His anti-Semitism is shocking, but, again, whom does he represent?
An intelligent journalist could make a good case about the failure of contemporary Conservative politicians to challenge the relentlessly pro-Palestinian propaganda peddled by the BBC, Guardian and others, but Gould isn’t that journalist. Readers would be better off skipping Gould altogether and turning instead to http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/ (also with links to articles of hers, i.e. Phillips, not Gould, published in the Mail and Jewish Chronicle). http://www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com/ does a good job of exposing the anti-Israel bias at the BBC, along with the anti-Conservative bias at the same institution (yes, Ms. Gould, they really do go together).
An Australian-Jewish point of view. I think that all (non-Jewish) people, born into a “Christian” society – which certainly applies here to those over 50, automatically experienced a Jewish-disapproval upbringing. And I think this was the case in every “Christian” country. This manifested in the Holocaust in Europe, the virulent right-wing anti-Semitism in the US during the 1930s – right through to the 1950s and the “polite” (to rabid) expressions which Carol sees in certain right wingers today.
Most “right-wing Christians”, in anglophone countries have gradually modified their inherited views – some have changed them completely.
Those who took the “left” path, saw themselves as “progressives” whose role included getting rid of various prejudices. (I am not including (totalitarian) communists here)
So in the first half of the 20thC, (again in anglophone countries) the left stuck up for the Jews and the right hated them.
I believe that this pre WWII condition is why so many American Jews still are “ironed-on” Democrats. (And a feeling that the “love” expressed by the Christian right has strings attached).
The world has changed. The more extreme leftists are the anti-Semites, in a bizarre alliance with Islamist jihadists and generally, the right are not. But the original “Christian” upbringing is still there. (The New Covenant replacing the Old one – with the implication that the mere presence of Jews was an insult, even a heresy).
So we see “conservative” anti-Semitism breaking out from time to time as Carol has mentioned and note that there is still an undertone generally present, which goes across party affiliations.
I believe the the US State Dept, regardless of President, has alway been anti-Semitic, the FBI and CIA etc ????. I think that the “witch-hunt” of the former AIPAC personnel is an example of “departmental” (conservative?) anti-Semitism and the continual harsh imprisonment of Jonathan Pollard, a veritable “pogrom”. (I don’t include the Rosenbergs in this, though there were anti-Jewish overtones in their prosecution).
So negativity to Jews is (was?) in Christians’ mother’s milk, but fortunately, in the US (and Australia), most, but not all, have moved on and formed their own opinions.
The new reality is that vehement anti-Jewish(Israel) behaviour is prevalent on the far left and much rarer with Conservatives.
The Left since say the Korean War has been more of an anti-American scold than anything else, They love picking on America and her close allies. Look at the way the South Koreans, the late South Vietnamese, Taiwanese and any other close dependent ally of the US was picked on, Israel included. Though Isreal’s leftist roots gave it some credibility with the world Left at first. They always micro analyzed the faults of those countries while pretending their antagonists’ grievances were somehow based on a humane impartial justice scale. So the left has been a Communist Party lite in it’s assessment of the goodness of many of the regimes. Israel, does have some serious human rights problems in the grand scheme of things, since it was formed out of predominately Arab lands. I know, there was no country called Palestine but it was hardly an uninhabited world like a lot of Zionist want to pretend it was. But since the left is anti-nationalist and one world at the core, they sneer at Israel’s Jews first policy while conveniently forgetting far worse Muslims first and only policies of her antagonists.
But outside of the USA, the rightist are almost uniformly anti-Semitic & anti-Israel.
Very interesting. I agree with your conclusion that the the new reality in the US (and maybe in Australia?) is anti-semitism is rare among conservatives. Maybe the reason for the odd alliance between the left and islamists is that both are statists. One thing about the US State Dept–the permanent diplomatic staff seems to be mostly Democrats. It is a creature of the left.
But the original “Christian” upbringing is still there. (The New Covenant replacing the Old one – with the implication that the mere presence of Jews was an insult, even a heresy).
You know there is a flip side to this. Some (many) Jews are raised with their mother’s milk that Christianity is the heresy because this fellow Jesus now makes the Covenant apply to all.
The only stings the Christian right attaches to an alliance is that the Jews live up to their religion — recognize that life is sacred, that abortion is an abomination, that society not condone homosexuality (or any sexual misbehavior), and that a Creator exists who grants all unalienable rights.
There is no desire to impose a religious test — I don’t count the rejection of atheism as a religious test.
” Some (many) Jews are raised with their mother’s milk that Christianity is the heresy because this fellow Jesus now makes the Covenant apply to all. ”
Not at all true. Christianity represents no theological threat to Judaism. Christianity is not viewed as heresy because it has nothing to do with us.
The only warning Jews might have received would be based on historical Christian oppression of Jews.
Bev: You sound like one of those “Jewish supporters of Israel”, like the members of J Street, who believe that if only they build the ovens themselves (complete with interal burn switches) and climb into the furnaces voluntarily that the anti-semites will turn into “reasonable” friends and neighbors you have always known. German Jews could not believe that their cultured friends and neighbors would turn into savages they revealed themselves to be. We are so anxious for the world to be better than it is that we are willing to blame the victims like those who blame people who are attacked/injured for walking late at night or having the temerity to fight back.
Bev, you are living in the Garden of the Finzi-Continis.
Personally, I don’t believe Ms Gould actually lives in England!
I’d be inclined to agree with you. There is something a bit sinister and paranoid about this thread, implying that the average Brit sits at home, doing naught but jew-hating.
Excuse me, but how exactly is it “antisemitic” for Michael Heseltine or anyone else to say that the US has a special relationship with Israel?
I’d have thought it was a statement of the obvious. Certainly this website would seem to amply confirm it. From the short time I’ve been here, there have been more references to Israel than to any other country bar the US itself, (certainly far more than to Britain ), and maybe more than to all others combined. Why would that be, if Americans had no special interest in the place?
Orpone, I am SO glad that you posted such an excellent rebuttal to/analysis of Bev’s letter castigating the author; and although perhaps some of Gould’s observations & conclusions are a bit spotty, they certainly don’t merit Bev’s supercilious put-down. All along, as I was reading it (Bev’s post), I kept thinking that this is definitely a case for – drum-roll & trumpets! – SUPER-WOMAN: Caroline Glick, a senior editor of the Jerusalem Post and a writer/journalist/analyst par excellence, VERY pro-Israeli, an American who made aliyah many years ago and served five years in the IDF as an officer – the list of accomplishments goes on & on (she also sits on a think-tank/foundation based in DC and focused on MidEast policy in general and Israeli foreign policy (& relations) in particular). Anyway, I’ve been a HUGE fan for the past couple of years that I’ve read her excellent columns in various outlets; but just this week I had the amazing experience of hearing her speak in person, with a good Q & A following – and, bottom line (and no surprise to those who know her writings), she wsa unequivacol in her assessment and understanding of both basic and complex issues concerning Israel. And she had one word for the question of a shared Israeli-Arab capital of Jerusalem: NO! And she has used those very sentiments that you, too, have re encouraging the Jews to build their own ovens next time around – or, as Pam Geller rather bluntly states the case, “committing jewicide!”
It is a struggle for life and death for the State of Israel – their fight for an existential right to exist! – that those who decry the “disproportionality” of Israel’s defensive moves and who demand the most unrealistic of double standards – but only for Israel! – either seem not to grasp or, if they do, simply reject out of hand (because, after all, it’s not THEIR backsides on the line!) the notion of a policy of self-defense and self-determination. That is the irrefutable bottom line. Anything less is denial or, as the joke goes, “not just a river in Egypt…”
For the wider world Jews represent Judaism. Even when an individual Jew has abandoned every speck of Jewish identity or practice. Judaism is hated because it proves that G-d exists. That He is real and that ultimately there are consequences for behavior. Human beings bridle at rules and regulations that are imposed upon them. That is natural and in some cases good and can lead to a better world. Yet when people ignore the rules for life given by the Almighty the outcome is always the same- disaster.
Those of the left or the right share one trait in common- their desire to impose their will on others. These leftists or rightists are challenged by the reality that a G-d exists whose rules for mankind are beyond their manipulation. Try as they can neither leftists or rightists can fully impose themselves on others as long as Judaism proclaims, Jewish existence proves and the state of Israel confirms that there is a Judge beyond their influence and control. That is why Judaism, the Jews, and now Israel, are hated, because we represent a Truth that can not be overcome.
Israel is hated because it represents the Truth of Judaism.
” The most significant aspect of the establishment of the state of Israel is the fact that Jews through the ages knew it was to come. ”
Rabbi Eliezer Berkovits, Faith after the Holocaust
Leaving out the hysterics from some directions, is there anything very remarkable about it?
After all, why should anyone be pro-Israeli? What’s in it for them? Nations do not make alliances from altruistic motives. Israel has no oil or anything else that anyone badly needs. Friendship with Israel brings few advantages. If anything, it’s a political handicap, inasmuch as it complicates a country’s relations with places that do have oil. In those circumatances, isn’t Israel doing well to have any friends at all?
Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world’s population, can lay claim to the following:
The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.
Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.
Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
The technology for the AOL Instant MessengerICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.
Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U. S, Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel’s air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16′s. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.
Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.
According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry’s most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.
Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin – 109 per 10,000 people –as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world — apart from the Silicon Valley, U. S.
Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U. S.
Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ ! listed companies.
Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.
The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.
Twenty-four per cent of Israel’s workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.
Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews (Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.
When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world’s second elected female leader in modern times.
When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day — and saved three victims from the rubble.
Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship — and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 – in the world.
Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the former Soviet Union)
Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as “conflict free.”
Israel has the world’s second highest per capita of new books.
Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.
Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.
Medicine… Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.
An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.
Israel’s Givun Imaging developed the first ingestible videocamera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders.
Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera helps doctors diagnose heart’s mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.
Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.
A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the Clear Light device, produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct — all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.
An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California’s Mojave desert.
All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.
Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
Your list shows exactly why Jews are hated: Jealousy. Their success in all important fields of human endeavor–in spite of massacres and prejudice–bewilders their competitors and drives them to explanations in terms of conspiracy, cheating, etc., including poisoning the water supply.
The Jews are clearly a chosen people. If you are religious, you can say God chose them. If not, you can say, equivalently, that they chose themselves—they formed themselves as chosen. For the ultimate duty of a Jew is to study God’s creation. It is the ultimate way to praise God. What other people have such a tradition? And Jews have been required to be literate since the days of Ezra. What other people have had such a tradition? And as they say—study, my boy, and you will get ahead…and so it is.
Ed, when you say, ” Your list shows exactly why Jews are hated: Jealousy.’, there may be some truth to that but after much thought and study I think my original comments ( #50 ) is the true cause.
” Their success in all important fields of human endeavor–in spite of massacres and prejudice–bewilders their competitors and drives them to explanations in terms of conspiracy, cheating, etc., including poisoning the water supply. ” You are right there.
” The Jews are clearly a chosen people.” From a Jewish perspective ” chosen ” has nothing to do with better or superior. It is all about the larger burden we carry. Jews have 613 commandments, non-Jews only seven. Its not easy I can tell you.
” If you are religious, you can say God chose them. If not, you can say, equivalently, that they chose themselves—they formed themselves as chosen. For the ultimate duty of a Jew is to study God’s creation. It is the ultimate way to praise God. What other people have such a tradition? And Jews have been required to be literate since the days of Ezra. What other people have had such a tradition? And as they say—study, my boy, and you will get ahead…and so it is. ”
Ed, From my heart thank you for your kind words. You may think more of us than we deserve but, considering how many think less of us, your comments warm the heart and heal the soul. G-d bless you!
Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
Which does not help you make your point
Oh oh! Another MSFT short!
@ 51. Mike Stone
Then don’t pretend to be friends of Israelis/Judeans and try to lecture them with hypocritical double standards and faux morality. Admit that you are callous swine whose only consideration in life is the pursuit of oil and the benefits derived from that oil.
This btw, is pretty much my view of the anglo-american imperialists – that they are nothing more than callous swine and that they should be treated as such.
I do not think Americans are callous swines. For a long time I did not understand the almost unwavering support of Israel. I used to buy into the pro-palistinian BS. But now I believe the US is right to support Israel. Who saves Israel from unfair resolutions at the UN? Who gives billions each year in aid? Who gives military support? I remember when Bush 1 came to the defense of Kuwait and when Bush 2 invaded Iraq. It was in Israel’s interest and the Israelis said ‘God Bless America.’
Don’t be such an ingrate. If you have nothing nice to say, don’t post.
“… hey are nothing more than callous swine and that they should be treated as such.”
To which the world owes an enormous debt of gratitude.
One day BHO will be out of office and America will shine again.
My own take on a chinese parable-
Just because it stinks from the head doesn’t make it a dead fish.
Mika, a question for you. Do you actually live in the UK? If you do, and you have PERSONALLY come across Jew hatred (and not the Carol Gould type of “I dare you to be anti-Semitic”) – I accept that you do think anti-Semitism is rife.
If you don’t live in the UK, can I ask you please to think before you call me “naive bordering on stupid”? If you don’t live in the UK – I can only assume that you take your “facts” from people like Carol Gould, or Orpone and Joy who see anti-Semitism under every bed and around every corner. If you live in the USA you are the last person to lecture me, a Jew who does live in the UK, on what is and what isn’t anti-Semitism over here. So cut it out, if you please.
I have some names of my own for you, Orpone and Joy. How about “shrills” and “knee-jerkers” for a start? Tell me, simply (if you can, without resorting to hyperbole and insult) – if you were a non-Jew who asked a perfectly simple question of a Jew, and they had you persecuted and prosecuted for anti-Semitism because for reasons known only to you, it hurt your over heightened sensibilities – how would you feel, as an absolutely non-racist, tolerant person who would not dream of being anti-Semitic? Wouldn’t it make you think twice before even speaking to that person again, or if you were really adversely affected by being called an anti-Semite (if it lost you your livelihood, for example) would you honestly like Jews or resent them?
Take your time. This suspicion and hysteria by people like you is what actually brings on the thing you’re so afraid of – Jew hatred in all its horrifying forms. If somebody smacks you – it doesn’t matter why they did it – what would your reaction be – you’d want to smack them back, wouldn’t you?
I would defend any Jew anywhere who is subject to gratuitous Jew-hatred. I abhor anti-Semitism – but please, Mika, don’t take me to be as naive and stupid as you are. I live in the UK – a non-Jewish country. I and my family are happy here. The last time I came across anti-Semitism was when I was five years old. I am a proud practising Jew. Don’t expect me to be scared of every non-Jew I meet. I wouldn’t be that way for anybody, least of all for you.
Bev, Perhaps if you had seen one third of all your co-religionists murdered, turned into lamp shades and soap, you too might carry a certain degree of sensitivity to the comments of others. Especially when you consider that there remain peoples and governments that espouse doing the same to the rest of you.
Just a thought.
This article really does speak volumes about interpretation and cultural differences. Jew-hatred has simmered within European society for centuries, and I cannot believe that it simply evaporated over the last generation or two. A European conservative would be a shoe-in Democrat in the United States. To insist that Robert Byrd was anything but a Leftist is absurd. Pat Buchanan has a nasty habit of patronizing National Socialist groups across the globe – key word: “Socialist.”
But the simple fact remains that Conservative anti-antisemitism is the exception, whereas Leftist antisemitism (the world over) is the norm.
Mika, Joy and Orpone – why are you picking on Bev? I’ve read all the posts here, and I read Carol’s article, and I can see where Bev’s coming from. I’m not Jewish, and quite honestly I was insulted by what Carol and the three of you were implying, as if all Brits spend their time looking for Jews to bait. Not true.
If I was like you three and Carol – you’d have to scrape me off the ceiling by now. I’d be jumping up and down and shouting “Anti-Gentilism” to anybody who’d listen. If I was like the insulting racist caricature you paint of non-Jewish Brits – I’d be off to join the BNP or the loony left. What is it with you people?
I was brought up in a Jewish area and we all got on very well with each other. I remember coming to blows with ignoramuses who picked on the Jewish kids – and I married a Jewish girl. My two kids are Jewish. Can you imagine how it feels to be smeared (wrongly) by people like you four as being anti-Semitic just because I said something and you were having a bad day? I may have been able to prove what I said wasn’t meant, and wasn’t in the least anti-Semitic, but if you didn’t know my circumstances, off you’d go, smearing me, wouldn’t you? Would you expect me to just stand there and take it?
Articles like these do nothing to build bridges between Jews and everybody else, whethere in the US or anywhere else, neither does behaviour like the kind you three exhibit and the way you come across. You’re your own worst enemies. Take my advice – get out there and live in the real world.
There is something that really puzzles me. Carol Gould is an American who chooses to live in Britain – right? So, why on earth does she still live there when all she does is complain about the Israel-hating/Jew-baiting British people? I have read a few pieces she has written and there seems to be a repetitive pattern – complaints about British people who hate Israel and Jews.
Why does she not come back to the US? Or alternatively, if she is so worried about anti-Israel/anti-Jewish behaviour – why does she not make Aliyah?
I and others have asked her this, and she had a post a while back which basically said that her reasons for not leaving were mostly financial. Since she reads these threads closely, perhaps she could add something.
I also gather that she is late 50s or early 60s in age — and it’s tougher to relocate internationally when you are older.
Menachem – for your information many members of my parents’ families were murdered by the Nazis. My grandfather came to England when my mother was 2 years old, and meant to send for his family in Riga when he was settled. The family left it too late to leave, and yes, were as you put it “probably turned into lampshades and soap”.
You have the gall to call me insensitive? Do you even know what insensitivity is, Menachem? It’s finally finding a safe haven away from massacres and pogroms, and all you can do is complain and smear the very people who accept you and make you one of their own. It’s refusing to acknowledge that you have equal rights as every other person in the country that gave you a future, and instead you behave like an ingrate. It’s refusing to consider that the people around you, who are not Jewish, are suffering because their own way of life is being undermined, and they really need your help to fight it, and instead you only think of yourself, whilst expecting them to stand alongside you and protect you and support you if (not when) you need it, but being so self-absorbed you only think about what’s good for you.
It’s refusing to realise that the ongoing defamation by people like you of innocent non-Jews will eventually be tackled. There’s just so much that decent people can take.
Am I clear, Menachem, or do you require other examples?
Bev, The only thing that is clear is that you are in some form of distress. Your ranting makes nothing clear as much as the lack of cohesion in your thought process. Kudos to who ever gave you and your family sanctuary. It is a shame that the story of your family has not added to your empathy.
Bev,
Menachem’s right about one thing for sure — if you scream every time you post — even if your post is the truth or correct, the bottom line is that nobody will want to read what you have to say. I know I just skip right over anyone who screams — why would you or anyone else want to hear someone screaming? Just make your points in a calmer way, at the least, they’ll be read and it will reflect well upon you by keeping your cool.
@ 56. Node
The anti-Israel/anti-Jewish propaganda is not confined to Britain it is carried internationally, by the BBC and the other propaganda outlets. All of it sanctioned by the British gov, directed and dictated thru the British SIS.
@ 53. Bev
I don’t need to live in Britain to understand what’s going on there. I can see and hear the daily incessant hate propaganda, vilification, and delegitimization of Israel. I can see the actions of the Church there, the unions there, the academic institutions, and of-course the media and government. It’s all very plain to see. But I don’t want to be confrontational, and I don’t want to put you on the defensive. You have enough to deal with as it is. But you must understand what I’m trying to say. I’m trying to tell you that you shouldn’t be in a position where you need to answer their propaganda absurdities — answer to their orwelian propaganda, scripted paliwood theater productions and lies, with their libelous anti-Israel narrative. I hope you seriously contemplate the things I previously said.
@ 55. Thomas W
This article is a drop in the ocean compared to the daily vile propaganda coming out of Britain for the last half a century. This article is way overdue, and if there are bridges burned it is all Britian’s doing.
Bev, I don’t know whether you are actually Jewish because your remarks seem to indicate your belief that Jews (apart from yourself of course) are detested because they are detestable-the last refuge of bigots. I would be interested to research the case where “someone was prosecuted and lost their livelihood just because they asked an innocent question”.
One of the most signicant aspects of trauma for Jews who have lived through anti-semetic outbreaks is the ease and speed with which those they thought were friends and neighbors joined in the savagery of the kill or turned away in lethal indifference.
This is not to say that their are no righteous gentiles or Muslims who resist the tyranny of conventional Islam. The Jew haters and the Jihadists hate the “other” -including Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc.- because he exists and does not accept their primacy. The Jews are the first target but we are not the only intended victims. Whether in the UK, the USA, or Africa the pattern is the same.
(As to the value of Israel, she is the canary in the mine. A single example is the intelligence which has been provided to Western governments to ward off attacks against their own nations. This has been attested to many times by spokesmen throughout the military and intelligence establishment.)
“After all, why should anyone be pro-Israeli?”
Well, for one thing Israel has been a good (de facto) ally to the United States, and I’m an American.
For honor’s sake, I stand by my friends, even if there’s nothing to be gained for myself by doing so.
I don’t throw my friends to the wolves just because they don’t own any oil wells.
There’s other reasons why I’m pro-Israel (same enemies, same Judaic-based culture, essentially the same religion, etc.), but that’s probably the main one.
“Lord Heseltine launched into a tirade about the “special relationship” between the United States and Great Britain. He said there was actually no “special relationship” except for the one between the United States and Israel.”
LOL.
Sure, we have a “special relationship” with the Brits (and the French)…but, it only gets activated when the Germans are standing on THEIR doorsteps. The rest of the time, America is kind of like an embarrassing relative at a family reunion, that everyone just wishes belonged to some other family.
Dear Carol,
Thank you for your thoughts and comments. A positive result is anticipated when one writes positively before correcting or educating another, as you have done. I have not yet seen Mr. Beck’s piece on the origin of the middlke east conflict but will look for it and archive it for sure.
I believe perhaps Mr. Beck is speaking primarily from the United States, where it seems that perhaps the largest anti-semitism is coming out more stealth and subtle via means of new policies and initiatives on laws, let alone Mr. Obama’s front-page demonstration of a cold shoulder to Israel during Israel’s politic visit to the White House a couple of months back. And the origin(s) of this is primarily coming from the liberal left her in the USA.
That said, anotehr point that needs be acknowledged and rembered is that what is happening in and against Israel was all prophesied several thousand years ago. While there are many versus to this end, I am thinking at the moment about Zechariah 14:1 (NIV) which reads: “A day of the Lord is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it…” The prophet is prohpesying here against Israel. The key word here is “All nations…”, and we are seeing this come true before our eyes. And you are correct in that it is neither now, nor will it be solely later on the leftists in America. It will be peoples of all nations, as was predicted.
Even the history of this tiny nation coming back to their homeland was in the Bible well before it happened. Truely amazing and it behoves every man, woman and child, of every nation, to consider and look into these things.
Ultimately the Lord has as plan and, at the end of the day, His will shall be accomplished.
Kindly submitted,
Steven Coolbaugh
Am I the only person who thinks Eric R is a racist? He hates the British and constantly attacks my countrymen and women with his predjudice. Were I to do the same to his country my comments might well be moderated.
Don’t worry, I can take it but it is, to say the least,counter productive to his argument.
i peruse quite a few sites and do not self id with any group, religion or political party.
im am curious as to where all these charges that people that lean left are more prone to anti-semitism when the data that i read shows that people that follow the jewish religion vote democrat. [[ http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html ]] they voted in favor of gore, clinton, carter, kerry, mondale, dukakis, obama, truman, roosevelt etc etc.
so why, if the democrats are so anti-semitic, as the author of this post, and many posters state, jewish people in the us vote democratic?
are followers of the jewish religion also considered pro-statism because they vote primarily democrat?
from reading this thread one would get the idea that followers of the jewish religion vote and self id as republicans when the data doesnt back this up.
Most American Jews are Democrats first, Jews second, and American third. One American Jew said Jews live like [ Anglicans ] and vote like Puerto Ricans
maybe i did something wrong. my first post here is awaiting moderation. i will resubmit a shorter version.
from the data i have looked at the followers of the jewish religion have historically voted for the democrat party. why would they do this if the people in america that lean left were as anti-semitic as the people here seem to be postulating?
thanx. KB.
KB, Those Jews that vote democrat are the least observant and least Jewishly educated in America. Those Jews who are more observant and more Jewishly educated vote republican. In other words just because a guy is named Horowitz doesn’t make him an educated Jew. it doesn’t necessarily make him a democrat either.
Even so, observant or not, the data still does not show that one political group has more or less anti-semitic types than the other.
The error that the author makes is that British conservatives hold similar values as American conservatives. While there are some intersecting values with regards to capitalism, the British conservative is FAR to the left of his American counterpart – at most, falling to the left of what we Yanks consider a blue dog Democrat, pail blue at that…
66 Steven Johnson — Correct. In fact, Labour’s Tony Blair was a staunch supporter of the Iraq/Afghanistan interventions; Labour Friends of Israel have been stalwart. Some Labour supporters have been more ‘conservative’ than the Tories…
Menachem, Mika, Orpone what a pity the blinkers you wear are so much a part of the way you view things. It’s tragic that your narrative leaves no room for introspection at all.
Orpone – what a juvenile answer because I disagree with you – that I couldn’t possibly be “really” Jewish! I have only this to say to you : Im ani lo yehudiah, mishehoo tzarich lehagid le’ima sheli. Hi teyhiyeh me’od meunyenet bezeh, vegam acherim bemishpacha sheli. I certainly don’t see the need to justify my opinions and views to you. End of.
Menachem – why do you bring the Holocaust into this? You have absolutely no right whatsoever to use it in this way – as a tool to silence and smear anybody who does not agree with your world view. I am in no distress, believe me – I see things clearly – your distress in that you believe this tragedy can and should be used to overshadow what is really happening, and as a basis for enternal distrust and hatred of non-Jews. It’s plain that it’s something you carry around with you constantly. What a pity it’s led you to choose to not to live your life as part of a wider world. I know there’s Jew hatred, but to listen to some of you it’s all encompassing – restrictive, suffocating. I am not naive, Menachem, despite what you think – I know when people may not like me because I’m a Jew. I deal with it and move on. I know I would fight if I had to to protect my Jewishness and way of life. I absolutely refuse to mistrust people because sometime in the future they MAY decide to do me harm because I am a Jew. If you feel differently, fine – but don’t patronise me.
Mika I’ve nothing to say to you at all – just read my first paragraph, and if you can possible bear to do so, take what you feel is appropriate from my answer to Menachem. I trust you’ll never come to the UK. Stay in your bubble, Mika – you’d do more harm out of it.
By posting here I had hoped to open the door for give and take discussion, and respect for different views. I’m not ashamed to admit that I was wrong to hope for this. I’m getting bored now with these constant attacks on anybody whose views don’t “fit” your narrow perspective, so I’ll leave you to your ramblings. You’re all part of the same lost cause, and it’s a waste of my time.
Bev , I will try respectfully to respond to your comments -
” Menachem – why do you bring the Holocaust into this?”
Because the subject of the article is ant-semitism and it is intellectually fraudulent to leave it out.
” You have absolutely no right whatsoever to use it in this way – as a tool to silence and smear anybody who does not agree with your world view.”
I do no such thing.
” I am in no distress, believe me – I see things clearly – your distress in that you believe this tragedy can and should be used to overshadow what is really happening, and as a basis for enternal distrust and hatred of non-Jews.”
You seemed to be in distress. What is really happening is the continuation of the war against Judaism and the Jewish people. I have no hatred of non-Jews. I was taught and truly believe that people are either Good or Bad. I love the Good and hate the bad as I am required by my faith to do.
” It’s plain that it’s something you carry around with you constantly.”
In that you are correct. It is something all human beings carry although some are unaware.
” What a pity it’s led you to choose to not to live your life as part of a wider world.”
I am very much a part of the wider world as you put it. I have maintained an individual identity that I believe is unique and has something unique to offer.
” I know there’s Jew hatred, but to listen to some of you it’s all encompassing – restrictive, suffocating. ”
Not at all. However you seem to occupy an extreme position. Judaism for me is liberating, exciting, and wonderful. For all its challenges I thank G-d everyday for making me a Jew. Most jews feel the same way. After all a Jew can cease being a Jew anytime. the larger society invites and cajoles constantly. We prefer to be as G-d made us.
” I am not naive, Menachem, despite what you think – I know when people may not like me because I’m a Jew.”
I don’t think you are naive, just conflicted. And as a fellow Jew my heart is open to you and I truly wish you well in all things.
” I deal with it and move on. I know I would fight if I had to to protect my Jewishness and way of life. I absolutely refuse to mistrust people because sometime in the future they MAY decide to do me harm because I am a Jew.”
I don’t feel the way you think I do.
” If you feel differently, fine – but don’t patronise me.”
I don’t and I haven’t.
A question for you- Have you ever visited Israel?
i see my comment has passed the moderation test =]
i understad that the political compass is somewhat reversed in other nations in comparison to the american one. i think these unfounded statements about anti-semitism, that are often propagated by pundits for ratings, should be challenged and not repeated without doing a bit of reasearch in the interest of honest debate.
thanx. kb.
if one is anti-semitic are they only half as anti-semitic because the ones they persecute are less observant?
Robert Byrd wasn’t a liberal? In what universe?
56. Node
Carol has been the U.K for 30yrs.At the moment she needs the N.H.S for health reason’s
and can’t afford to go to the U.S.
The people she depises here are keeping her alive.What a lovely way to repay us,constant anti British rants devoid of insight to baying gulliable readers.
@ 68. Bev
I’m sorry, Bev, that you lack the intelligence to perceive that the game is throughly rigged. But you seem to enjoy the game, so what the hell, right? Like some perverted patsy sadomasochist in denial, you seem to be asking for more and more of the same. Well, I want no part of it, and I will tolerate no part of that game.
Delivery – spot on. It’s about time somebody said it. Be careful, though, the baying gullible attack dogs may go into overdrive…
Still – in the words of Catherine Tate, an excellent British TV comic – “are we bovvered” about that? Hell, no – speak the truth, Delivery, and shame the Devil.
Carol has been the U.K for 30yrs
==
She paid 30yrs worth of taxes to the anglo-imperialists. Now the anglo-imperialists are crying about having to provide rudimentary health care to those that paid in. How typical a behavior of these callous swine.
Carol has been the U.K for 30yrs
==
She paid 30 years worth of taxes to the anglo-imperialists. Now the anglo-imperialists are crying about having to provide rudimentary health care to those that paid in. How typical a behavior of these callous swine.
Bev,
I did not say you “could not possibly be Jewish”. I merely questioned whether you are Jewish in view of your posts. “Decent people” will only take so much before they “tackle” the problem. Exactly what kind of “tackling” are you justifying here? Decent people? As opposed to those shrill detestable Jews so much less enlightened and patriotic than yourself? Your contempt for the experience and response of Jews who may not agree with you marks you as something other than the thoughtful Jewish woman you claim to be.
As for your linguistic detour it is evidence of nothing since Eichmann himself was fluent in both Hebrew and Yiddish.
@ 57. Bev
“It’s finally finding a safe haven away from massacres and pogroms, and all you can do is complain and smear the very people who accept you and make you one of their own.”
==
What you don’t realize it that these massacres, pogroms, and the holocaust itself were bankrolled and manipulated into being by the Anglo-American imperialists. To get a glimpse into this, I highly recommend you read: The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People by John Loftus and Mark Aarons. Also, Murray Rothbard at the Mises Institute.
76. mika.
‘She paid 30 years worth of taxes to the anglo-imperialists.’
Which she CHOSE to do. She could of gone back to the U.S. Carol is a strong supporter of the N.H.S.
She must see that her taxes are spent well.
I don’t begrudge her health cover.As you said she has paid her taxes.That’s what the N.H.S is all about .
When you fall on hard times then your healthcare is covered at point of delivery.
‘Now the anglo-imperialists are crying about having to provide rudimentary health care to those that paid in.’
Mika, yet again you are showing a lack of understanding of what goes on here.
Crying over healthcare is ripe in the U.S. Are you one of these people?
Watch this ,it’s funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwO8vCLcTE4
‘How typical a behavior of these callous swine.’
Yes we are callous , we want all our citizens access to healthcare,not based on ability to pay.
That all our lives are equal and we all deserve life even if you or your parents make bad choices.
Carol,
Are you O.K with the words ‘callous swine’ to describe your health care team
or are you going to defend them?
I don’t begrudge her health cover.
==
Right. So why bring it up? What does the health care system in Britain have to do the article about the general British attitude of malevolence towards Israel and Jews?
Second. Carol doesn’t need to defend my assertion that you are callous swine, the history of the anglo-american imperialists speaks for itself. As do your words. Only callous swine would try to imply that Jews should be grateful that they still receive health care in Britain — that perhaps Nuremberg-like laws should take effect because some Jewess dared to direct a little criticism towards the British establishment. And that’s exactly what you and your sidekick “Node” try to imply. So yeah, callous swine is a very fitting expression for you. Another fitting expression is blue-eyed devils. Now gouge your eyes out and prove that you are not.
80. mika.
‘Right. So why bring it up?’
What? Because you did,
‘Now the anglo-imperialists are crying about having to provide rudimentary health care to those that paid in ‘
Carol,an American has lived here for years,the problem myself and other posters from the U.K wonder if it’s so terrible why stay here?
Truly Mika ,we don’t think she is on the same planet never mind country.
Then to assume thst if we disagree then we are brainwashed or anti-semitic is laughable .
She hates the British people if it was the other way round you would feel the same.
She is here for healthcare,if we are the way you and she think we are,why would she put herself in our hands at a vulnerable time of her life?
It’s Carol as an American we are talking about,nothing to do with her religion.If you doubt that fact it will just show how brainwashed you are into hating the British people.
“Some Labour supporters have been more ‘conservative’ than the Tories…”
What was conservative about the Iraq/Afghanistan interventions?
@ 81. delivery: “She hates the British people”
==
No, she dislike the British establishment and its general attitude of malevolence towards Israel and Jews. The callous imperialist mafia that expresses itself thru its various appendages, such as the SIS, the royals, the church, the media propaganda priests, the union bosses, the university establishment, the banksters, the bought-and-paid-for government make up by the bought-and-paid-for politicians. None of these are democratic institutions and none of them represent the British people.
@ 81. delivery: “What? Because you did”
==
LOL! You’re really too much:
@ 56. Node
@ 72. Delivery
@ 76. mika.
@ 81. delivery: “Carol,an American has lived here for years”
==
I see, a person lives in your country for 30 years and still is not considered a citizen of that country. That sounds like RACISM to me. So not only are you a bunch of callous swine, you are a bunch of RACIST callous swine. Which is exactly Carol’s point, isn’t it.
Are you for real?
You will have to ask Carol ,i am not sure whether she has CHOSEN to be a British citizen. SHE refers to herself as an American living in the U.K.
After 30 yrs i think she is,funny that when she hates the whole fabric of our society and read her articles,Mika, she is deeply anti-British in her rants especially British Muslims who have been born here.
If reading crap about your country that you live in(as other posters from the U.K agree)and seeing it so mis-informed ,honestly she is taking the piss,and you all lap it up without question.
But then have a go at us, who are here and defending our people,that makes us a racist callous swine’s
Which you say is Carol’s point, that you believe to be true, based on her ‘evidence’ then WHY IS SHE STILL HERE!
Carol ,could you explain to Mika if you have you or why have you taken up British Citizenship when we are all racist callous swines including your healthcare team?
It’s funny how every time something of mine is published readers want to know whay I stay here. My life is an open book so : five companies in which I invested — along with millions of other Britons — took my money but the investment plans crashed. I have had to sacrifice my house in the USA to pay bills here. Describing hateful elements in British society does not mean one has to leave. Anyway, I am too Anglicised in many ways; for example I have a beautiful tub garden that I have carefully cultivated over thirty-three years and can’t abandon my precious plants…
Carol, Carol, Carol….
You can leave it all behind, and come back home to (New) Joisey.
We’ve got a great governor now….
Yes Carol, go back to New Jersey and leave your days of writing turgid Britain hating articles behind you. Start afresh and maybe take up a new hobby.
I really wonder what we British folk did to you to make you be like this. Anyone want to submit any ideas?
@ 84. Delivery: “You will have to ask Carol ,i am not sure whether she has CHOSEN to be a British citizen.”
==
This has nothing to do with Carol. Rather, it has everything to do with the perceptions you and your countrymen have towards her and people like her. It’s very obvious you don’t consider her one of your own. 30 years in Britain or 60 years in Britain, it would have made no difference. That goes not only for Carol, but for all Jews living in Britain, and they know it. The RACISM in institutional, inbred and second nature. The only consolation for Britain is that it’s no different than the rest of Europe.
This is your new Prime Minister: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFNSI-SzU Tell me how I’m wrong.
Even a simple undergrad textbook will explain the futility of the basic rationalization techniques that the dispossessed, weak minded and frustrated try to use in order to project their own hatred of others onto another ‘group du jour’, in this case the ‘British’.
We all know that you and carol are riddled with anglophobia, we just wish you’d both get some balls.
PS. The textbook suggests that you’ll now call me an ‘anti-semite’ because that’s the only way you know how to debate an issue.
I wanted to say ‘get some balls and say it’.. however getting some balls also works fine too.
‘you and your countrymen have towards her and people like her. It’s very obvious you don’t consider her one of your own. you and your countrymen have towards her and people like her. It’s very obvious you don’t consider her one of your own. ‘
It has nothing to do with Carol being Jewish it’s the mis informed articles
and hatred towards the British people we are objecting to.
Why would we consider her one of our own when she hates us with a passion.
Does she even want to be seen as ‘one of us’
Think about if it was the other way round.
If a British journalist in the U.S was constanly ranting against the U.S ,would you consider them American?
It’s not us wanting her to leave here .We are asking why she would want to stay here?
‘The RACISM in institutional, inbred and second nature. ‘
So why would Carol think more of her precious plants by remaining here ?
She has not answered the question of whether she has chosen to taken up citizenship here.
87. mika.
You tell me why that is anti semitic?
We supported you following 9/11 went into Iraq,and we are losing soldiers in Afghanistan in support of the U.S
You don’t deserve the lives of our young sons and daughters when you hate us
so much.
“Antisemitism is a pastime, a hobby, an expression of group solidarity with non-Jews with no cost to the antisemitic participant.”
Carol Gould, a question for you: As most prejudices become less and less socially acceptable, could it be that this only increases the psychological importance of those prejudices (primarily hatred of Israel and America) that are still safe?
A British scientist I once knew was quite proud of not being insular and prejudiced like those typical small-town Brits. (That’s essentially what she said.) But she was openly and proudly hostile to Israel and America–while she was living in America and enjoying the hospitality of Americans.
@ 91. Anonymous
==
If I hand a knife to a person that clearly wants you dead and would not hesitate in using that knife to kill you, and I block your escape, what does it say about me? How would you feel about my action in giving the knife to that person that wants you dead? Would you consider my actions friendly or would you consider them hostile?
Now let me give you a more specific analogy and historic fact as it concerns Britain and the anglo-american imperialists. During the 1930′s the anglo-american imperialists bankrolled, lent political and technical support, to the thieving genocidal thugs of Nazi Germany. This is very well documented now. They did this because war profiteering, divide and conquer politics to further their imperialist ambitions, is what they’re all about. When Jews in Europe tried to escape Nazi Europe and go to Israel, the British navy blocked their escape, thus trapping them to face the death camps of the Nazis. Unequivocally it is the British and Americans who are responsible for the holocaust and the death of millions others through wars they manipulated into being. In fact, if you look closely, you’ll find that practically every war fought around the globe for the last 200 years has the anglo-american imperialists directly or indirectly involved.
Support for the Islamo-nazis is just the latest variation of the same above. The callous swine are setting us up for World War III.
@ 90. delivery: “Why would we consider her one of our own when she hates us with a passion.”
==
That never stopped you from considering callous swine that make up elitist British establishment as part of your own. These people have culled and massacred you for centuries to further their imperialist ambitions. They hold you in complete and utter contempt — your lives are worthless to them, except as a way to extract wealth, only you’re too stupid to understand that.
If these people hate British people so much, does it mean they’ll stop using our passports in order to hide their assassination of Arabs? I guess they’d suddenly start saying that they’re Jewish again, and not Israeli.
It’s also quite clear that neither of these two hate filled ignoramuses know anything about the birth of Israel, including the terrorist activity afoot then. When harping on about Hamas they should open a history book and read about the Irgun or ‘The Seargants Affair’, but I daresay they wouldn’t see the irony.
Silly people who are riddled with hate make the best trolls, so let’s not feed the trolls, eh?
@ 94. Geoff
Talk about projection. Go back to your BBC. The Irgun chased you callous imperialist swine out of the country, and well they did. Of-course anyone that puts up resistance to your imperialist machinations is a “terrorist”. Interesting that the jihadists that supply you with oil are never called terrorists — you never hear a bad word about them from BBC, do you.
The game is up. The evil karma you’ve been creating for centuries and centuries WILL catch up to you. Count on it.
The hate filled troll can’t see hypocrisy, quelle surprise!. That’s what a lacking education has done to the poor soul.
“Of-course anyone that puts up resistance to your imperialist machinations is a ‘terrorist’”. Are you talking about Hamas putting up resistance to Israel there? Oh wait, you’re talking about the Irgun. So Hamas fighting the Israelis are terrorists, Irgun fighting the British are freedom Fighters, IRA fighting the British are freedom Fighters, Iraqi Mujahideen fighting the Americans are terrorists.
This typically underlines deep-rooted American anglophobia; The IRA ,paid by NORAID in the USA, could happily kill British women and children to much aplomb, whereas Hamas are a terror group who cannot kill a single israeli without an uproar. In USA, British life is cheap, juxtaposed to Israeli life, which is treasured. This is the true ‘dreadful relationship’.
We’re sure that the contradiction under which dear Carol lived in the UK has not made her particularly popular, as she spent 30 years openly expressing her hatred of the people around her. We can also see how this cognitive dissonance would lead to her being a bit sad and lonely.I personally, suggest you both turn over a new leaf and learn to love others. Even learn to engage with people of other cultures and faiths, maybe even let your hatred go. Otherwise, I fear, you’ll both stay very lonely people.
EOM
No one is interested in your “terrorist” Orwellian bogeyman, and your false dialectics.
The military occupation of Israel by the British or by anyone else constitutes an act of war. Consequently anyone involved in such is part of this military occupation force and is a legitimate target. You should be thankful we didn’t bomb your cities to oblivion like you did in Germany Japan etc. You have no business being on our land. Neither do the Jihadi imperialists that you support or the various other thieving imperialist colonizers that tried to steal our land going back to the Romans the Greeks and before.
“The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media” – William Colby, Former CIA Director
Lies, your epitaph
Much of the information available in your society has been controlled and sculpted. The populace at large willingly accepts all the lies fed to them. Their emotional constructs seek and ask for continual assurance. Every event you see, should break your delusional thinking. But with assurance you cling to the delusion. You believe you are living in a free society. This false perception could not be further from the truth. Individuals in a controlled society are unknowing slaves. You believe lies no matter how outrageous. You serve your master willingly and ascribe to his values. In fact, you appreciate being lied to. You are assuaged with kind words of falsehoods. But as a slave you don’t have any rights. You are expendable, and you have granted your consent to this status in exchange for the ability to be a CONSUMER in the fascist imperialist order. Some people understand this. Most are comfortable resting their heads in a bed of lies and untruths. There will be no revolution fermenting. Instead the haplessly servile will skid across “a chain of failures” to their ultimate death when they’re no longer needed. The only question is who will write your epitaph, if any.
So in summary, the military occupation of Lebanon…. sorry Israel by the Israelis… sorry, the British or by anyone else constitutes an act of war.. sorry friendship. Where does the Fallacy end, other than anything supported by USA or Israel is ‘good’ and anything involving arabs or british people is ‘bad’ by default.
So under the thin veil of anti-British hatred is a scared child guarding a stolen toy, lashing out at everyone and anyone. What with the last message dripping with incoherent paranoia, I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Mika wasn’t in fact ‘David Ike’ and the next response wasn’t something about lizards.
As for my epitaph, we come from dust and we become dust; a few meager words to describe the bit in the middle are of little consequence for each day we must live in naught but friendship.
The military invasion of Lebanon was an act of war. It was an act of war in response to months of Lebanese shelling of Israeli towns, itself an act of war. Pretty self-explanatory. But what’s the reason for the anglo-american imperialists being in Israel? What’s the reason for the anglo-american imperialists being anywhere in the Middle East for that matter? What’s the reason for the anglo-american imperialists being in Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, North Africa, India, China, the Philippines, etc? Of-course, we know the reason. It has nothing to do with defense, and has everything to do with extraction of wealth, exploitation, and imperial hegemony.
So do you typically travel on a israeli or a fake-british passport?
Pathetic. This is the best you have by way of deflection from your crimes. Unsubstantiated allegations by your SIS propaganda organs about persons alleged to be Israeli carrying fake travel documents. But then again, we already know that you callous imperialist swine will stoop to anything in pursuit of your imperialist machinations.
No, those well known members of Hamas were definitely travelling using British passports. I love how you turn an assassination sanctioned and performed by Israel, into another way to hate British people. Is there no end to it?
I have two questions, your father wasn’t present in your life was he? and your mother didn’t hug you, right? Well I think the whole room needs to give both you and carol a big hug, and tell you that although you’re full of hate, we think we can hugs can get that hate out of you and make you into a better love filled person with a life full of beaty.
@ 103. Goeff: “No, those well known members of Hamas were definitely travelling using British passports.”
==
Is that what your BBC propaganda priests told you? Must be true then. After all, we don’t want the vaunted Paliwood theater and the CIA-SIS-MSM going out of business for lack of credibility with the useful idiots.
There is no democracy in Israel as a state is illegitimate and illegal and not recognized
Evidence of this if anyone wanted to write a comment in the Israeli websites
Does not allow him or be there are many obstacles to prevent him from writing a comment The reasons for Arab-Israeli conflict is the occupation of Palestine in 1948.
Palestine Arab Islamic state like the rest of the Arab and Islamic states surrounding
Them. Means that there are Jews and Zionists in Palestine a big mistake, because this entity
Zionist is not consistent with the surrounding area (such as language, customs, traditions and religion)
The only solution to end the Arab-Israeli conflict is the expulsion of Jews from Palestine
All of Palestine. The Jewish people will not rest and will not feel comfortable and stability
But if it gets out of Palestine and the Middle East completely. If people continue to
Jews in Palestine and the Middle East, the death and destruction will continue.
Palestine Arab Islamic state and will remain
What a really joy of a piece..