Langue de Bois: The Newspeak Dictionary Goes Gallic
Langue de bois is the French term for the special language that was spoken and written by Communist leaders and functionaries. It is hard to define but easy to recognize. It is simultaneously high-flown and supremely dull; it never descends to particulars; it confuses abstract aspiration with actual achievement; it is terminally humorless; it disguises obvious lies, and tries to preclude any opposition, by resort to pompous moral banalities and abstractions. It acts almost instantly on the mind as a general anesthetic, but without the soothing element of sleep.
It did not disappear with the fall of the Berlin Wall. Politicians are by nature inclined to use it when in a tight corner, as are bureaucrats and senior executives. But in my opinion, this year’s Brezhnev Prize for langue de bois ought to be awarded forthwith to Dr. Bernard Kouchner, France’s foreign minister (and one of the founders of Medecins Sans Frontieres), for his article “For Greece, for Europe.” It was published in the French newspaper Liberation on May 10.
The question that arises as soon as one starts to read is whether the words used in it correspond to any actual thoughts. Is there anyone who, within the fastness of his own skull, actually thinks like this? Or is it all merely a performance, an act? I think it must be the latter; if the former, only a Frankenstein’s monster would not go mad with boredom with his own cerebration.
A few quotations will be enough to establish the point:
Let us not give in to facile anxiety-provoking, declinist speeches, and looks things in the face. This crisis demonstrates only one thing: that we have need of Europe more than ever. Europe was born in crisis and will emerge stronger from this ordeal. Of this I am certain …
These are not the worlds of a politician cornered by a journalist who has asked a difficult and awkward question, who is trying to buy time by hiding behind vague generalities. They are the considered words of a senior politician who is voluntarily committing them to print.
The article goes from bad to worse:
We are motivated by a very simple and very strong conviction: to help Greece today is to protect our common currency but also to defend the incomes and the work of the French people tomorrow. Over and above the debates among the twenty-seven states, the solidarity of Europeans is total.
This is a combination of magical thinking — that somehow to wish a thing, such as the future prosperity of the French people, is automatically to bring it about — and lying, dressed up in the most wooden of wooden terms. What could the total solidarity of Europeans mean? There isn’t even total solidarity in a small village, let alone across twenty-seven countries. Many Germans now despise the Greeks and many Greeks hate the Germans. The only total solidarity to be found is probably among the bureaucrats of Brussels who know on which side of every question their expenses claims are signed.
Actually, Theodore, if you try reading Kouchner aloud in French you will understand what Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady meant when he said “the French don’t care what they say, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly.”
It’s only when you translate French into a working language like English that you realize that it’s mostly hot air. You see, the French speak to hear themselves speak: you are not supposed to take what they say seriously.
But such elegant hot air!!!
I think you are missing the coded message here. Rumour has it that the single biggest holder of Greek debt is the French state pension scheme. If Greece defaults, then it is indeed the French who suffer most. Kouchner daren’t admit this openly to an international audience, but he needs his domestic audience to understand it. This is why they are so desperate to get the Germans and the US to pay up.
you’re the only one to take seriously what Kouchner says. He is a buffoon (in suburb language) !
Langue de bois: when a politician doesn’t answer to a journalist question, but gets around the difficulty, be, by responding by questions, be, by disgressions, but by abstractions, so that no one can remember what was the question.
Astonishely, you didn’t get the deal, it wasn’t to save Greece, but to save the euro banks, and the euro, their currency. Now, hadn’t Germany not played its self partition, we wouldn’t yet be in such a mess. For the attacks against the euro happened because there wasn’t a true solidarity in the eurozone. The German elite was lying on their banks creditworthiness, and stigmatized Greece for being the lazy ones that wanted to live on the german taxes, though german banks were playing the game with CDS, not only with Greece debt bonds, but also with american debt bonds, and with the euro currency: this is the main reason of their unsolvency.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/20/AR2010052005278.html
“The eurozone won’t be fixed until Germany figures out how to generate growth and wealth without beggaring its neighbors and its trading partners”
“Observers continue to question Merkel’s motives. It could be argued that the collapse of the Eurozone partnership would strengthen Germany’s financial system because it could go back to its own currency, but the country would then have to deal with significant fallout, some of which is not obvious.
A collapse of the euro would mean a weakening of several economies, all of which import German goods. But, the bailout carries that risk as well. The austerity measures being adopted by Greece, Spain and Portugal, along with new taxes being implemented in the nations, could be regressive. The actions may eventually hamper GDP growth, in which case Germany’s exports would suffer as well.
Some financial experts believe that Merkel is acting in the interest of German banks which hold billions of dollars in sovereign paper in Eurozone paper. Defaults could swamp the balance sheets of those banks.
But, the real reasons behind Merkel actions may be more complex and sinister. There is a great deal of evidence that some of Germany’s large banks have bet against both the euro and sovereign debt in the weakest nations in the region. If so, these banks, like other speculators, probably made billions of dollars on such deals.
Merkel may have to deal with the accusation, probably an accurate one, that Germany allowed its banks to take sides against the euro as the government helped drive its value down. How would it look if Germany then left the Eurozone and its banks became, under a set of circumstances helped by Merkel, rich in the process ?”
“Greece had Europe — and especially Germany — over a barrel all along. Germany is hiding a big banking problem — a problem that could be, proportionally, on the same scale as that of the U.S. financial system’s through 2008 if not greater. And like U.S. banks through our financial crisis, German banks — and the German government — might be hiding the full scale and scope of the problem. Unusually erratic Chancellor Merkel is certainly behaving as though this is the case.”
“it seemed odd to me that economically tiny and almost insignificant Greece appeared to have such outsized leverage in the bailout negotiations.”
“Then there were the reports (not convincingly denied) of French President Sarkozy banging on the table and shouting to German Chancellor Merkel threats that France would abandon the euro unless Germany complied and supported the bailout. Wasn’t it Germany — certaintly the German public — that was the angriest, most offended party here? Weren’t they the ones in a stronger position to make threats about abandoning the euro and in a better position to dictate terms?.”
all excerpts from financial analysts, links in the last Dr Hanson’s post
“For the attacks against the euro happened because there wasn’t a true solidarity in the eurozone”
How true! And how can there be? The EU is a French construct that herds the nations of Europe into a big heap that pays for France. One can only imagine what the Germans and Greeks think about each other. The EU is a force for war.
uh that’s what you read in Sun, aint what the other papers say, and first your famous Financial Times opinionist, Wolf.
Do you need that I bring you some links ?
uh tell me why Cameron did prefer to visit Sarkozy before Merkel ?
I would speculate that Cameron may need help to pay for New Labour’s exceedingly profligate welfare binge, and he knows that Merkel is in no place to offer anyone anything anymore. Or, it could be to shore up contacts with EU partners at the behest of Clegg.
As far as “solidarity in the Eurozone” is concerned, I fail to see how solidarity could have prevented a meltdown after the Greeks revealed just how cooked their books were. Merkel’s foot dragging certainly exacerbated the situation, but it was clear from the beginning that the Euro was a flawed construct with or without “solidarity.” I’ll agree that German banks are not nearly as healthy as everyone thinks they are; they are on the hook for billions in debt not only in Europe, but also in Latin America as well. The “solidarity” appeared when the Germans were forced by the markets to realize that the chickens were finally coming home to Brandenburg Gate to roost, but as always, the solution is really more like sticking your finger in the leak on a dam. It won’t prevent the inevitable, but it may buy people some time.
I’ve often wondered if the Germans are trying to sink the Euro purposefully. Take the recent unilateral announcement that they would ban naked short selling leaving only the Euro to bet against as a way to hedge bets and minimize losses. They basically drew a huge target on the thing and begged the markets to put it down like Bambi’s mother. The Euro has been very beneficial for German exporters, but anyone can see that those markets that have provided them some of this largesse are not going to be in any position to keep BMW and Mercedes afloat in the next couple of years. This may be the “easy” way out.
I don’t expect Cameron asking money from France, we have the same difficulties. He was asking Sarkoz to get a closer partnership in Defense, and allowed EDF to Build 4 EPR in UK, project that was frozen by the “greenies”
Paris is on the way to Berlin!
It’s quicker to get London with the Shuttle though !
Well, well, Dr. Bones: another day, another dollop of dingalingism!
I would not have guessed that the Pajama Corners Daily Drum & Crumpet was rakin’ in enough sh’qálîm and pesos to allow Kiddiemaster Simon to hire an Old Euro correspondent. True, he can’t afford better than a Ruritanian, but even they cost far more than a Qannádî would cost, not to speak of bargain-basement Michiganders.
M. de Dalrymple may well have been an exchange student at Wombschool Normal University or St. Dilbert Antistate College or some lesser warpatorium of Foxcuckooland. Either that, or his freelordship has briefed the new hired hand admirably about the audience that must be scribbled down to. In particular, Wally Wingnut and Cindy from Wasilla can be counted on never to have noticed — never to have been put in a position to become able to notice — that pretty well anythin’ translated from Old High Europic sufficiently literally will sound silly in Greater Texan.
Certainly I have no objection to watchin’ Dr. Koucher get dalrymplisé. There have been times when I might have contributed a doit or two to that enterprise myself. The man has bloviated obnoxiously about the Western Sieve (®) product, which he far too detectably conceives of as a handy utensil for advancing the interests of Hyperzion.
Master Wally and Miss Cindy, fortunately, are no more likely to know that (and maybe protest that the Drum & Crumpet should go find a genuine enemy to pick on [*]) than to recognise “ the doctrine of the enclitic de.”
___
[*] Father Zeus knows, the kiddies have enough of ’em! A whole Rupert’s List of enemies have our kiddie selfservatives!
Got Thorazine?
I doubt Dr. Dalrymple has time for you, sir. But pray, tell us: what EU post are you running for?
Oh G-d! Not YOU again… Mr “doing business as” a pseudo-erudite blogger, whose blog, I might add, clearly nobody visits (from your own “hit meter”), and who comes here every so often trolling for a few more “hits” to help boost his fatuous, and just plain fat, ego.
I thought I successfully ran you out of here last time you showed your… whatever part of your body that was.
I’ve been polite in the past, asking you “kindly” to just leave us in peace. But you appear to have the stick-to-itiveness of a leech, and the regularity of diarrhea.
By coming here and voiding your bowels in the hopes that some newbies, unaware of you utter perverseness, will follow the smelly link back to your guano-cave, you only further shame whatever family you may have left that might actually care for you. You see, I truly am trying to save you from yourself (and clean up the neighborhood at the same time).
Thus, again, politely, will you please, ever so kindly, leave and shut the door on your way out? Thank you so very much!
Frumious Falafel,
Since I’ve read a lot of your posts and respect you, will you please tell me what in G’d's name this person is talking about? Both the post and the website are beyond my scope of comprehension. And I read Arabic. This reminds me of reading English inscriptions in French museums; the words seem right, the grammar isn’t really off, but it leaves more confusion than answers.
I suspect that whoever he is, he’s of French extract. It’s obvious that he speaks only to hear himself, since he never tries for coherence.
He wants to serve as a distraction, nothing more.
nah, it’s your sister !
Jacob,
(and by the way, I very much respect and enjoy reading your posts — you’re clearly a highly educated and talented guy with formidable opinions on many issues — and you’re the opposite of what I so detest in Mr dba — you’re humble. I only wish there was some way you could “take on Madam Marie” — who I think is a prig [are you listening Marie?] — as I’ve tried to take on Mr “dba”)
But to attempt to answer your question — I haven’t much of a clue as to the origins of Mr dba (“doing business as” — a locution he obviously thinks is enormously witty to use it over and over and over again).
I do know that he’s been present in the blog-sphere for some time now (many years), occasionally popping his head up and shamelessly quoting himself in his own “secondary” posts — that is, he takes a section of his “daily” post at his website and then posts it in the comments section of various Pajamas (and other) articles and always leaves his name click-able back to his blog. He is, in my opinion, lonely.
I think he thinks that he should be receiving huge crowds every day, poring over his maze of rhetoric to discern what the master has dribbled out for them that day. I think he probably was not recognized in his professional life and this is a compensation mechanism (if you’ll allow me such arm-chair analysis).
But interestingly I do remember “discovering” this guy completely independently of Pajamas — years ago — I think he must have done a similar thing at some other well traveled blog that I read. I mean the first time one comes across him, he certainly appears “worth a look” — he is unique, I’ll give him that.
He loves to tweak the noses of “neo-cons” and about half his “supposed puns” are just barely understandable (by me, at least), with the remaining half completely out of my comprehension. I suspect he’s “half-crazy” in that he knows how everything he writes “connects together in a grand scheme” but nobody else does.
I think he had to have done a lot of reading earlier in life. My guess is that now he’s a bitter older man… probably used to be a teacher, and perhaps had talent — maybe aspirations to be a novelist — at some point in his life, but now he’s like many of my late Mother’s patients who were locked up in an institution: he creates highly intricate constructs — the locked up patients use drawings, while Mr dba uses language — creating a tangled labyrinth which, again, only he can comprehend. But this is why I tend not to be outright “mean” to him — I think he suffers from some sort of Psychosis, perhaps even Schizophrenia. Nevertheless, he’s clearly “functional” as they say, and it’s his pretentiousness that “pushes my buttons” — just as with Ms Claude.
I come from a family of doctors and PhD’s so I’ve been surrounded by many smart people in my life (I’m the black sheep having only attained an MS in Computer Science) — but I did I suppose learn that having a great education and being talented is still no excuse for being pretentious. And I think that is what connects the two individuals I’ve mentioned.
I’ll close with a story I learned from a teacher at Hebrew University in Jerusalem — I was attending Summer School there in my Junior year at College, 1985 — and I took a class in Jewish Philosophers. So at one point we were studying Martin Buber. Now I’ve completely forgotten any and all of his “philosophic contributions” … but what have I remembered? A fascinating story that my teacher got from his teacher who was a disciple of Buber’s. It’s really not all that amazing, but it obviously left an impression on me.
Apparently Buber, towards the end of his life was giving a talk at some University auditorium. He was already famous and revered many times over by this point in his life. So he finishes his talk and opens the floor up for questions. Some snot-nosed student in the back row asks him something…. well snotty (it doesn’t really matter what). So then, in this packed, standing-room-only auditorium, Buber slowly hobbles down off the stage, down the steps, making his way through the crowd — who all of course respectfully moved aside for him, opening up a path directly to this kid in the back row. Buber shuffles slowly upwards, ascending each step of the auditorium with obvious physical discomfort. Finally, the old man reaches the back row where the student was sitting (and no longer wearing a smirk). The whole crowd obviously is silent as they wish to hear what their master has to say — a comeuppance of some sort perhaps? So Buber leans in, steadying himself on the armrest of the kid’s chair and with the most respectful tones says, “I’m terribly sorry, I couldn’t quite hear your question from up there, would you mind repeating it for me?”
And that is, for me, the ultimate quality in a man. Utter humility despite massive societal accolades.
Sorry for the long post Jacob!
so, what is your point, apart that I labelled you as a lazy old Maid ?
sure for someone that comes from such a smart background, that doesn’t make it !
but you still deserve it
No problem FF. I enjoyed it.
I know exactly what you are talking about with the “invisible web”; I have indeed come into contact with quite a few people who had such elaborate fantasies proving a connection between this or that. A lot of people in France do indeed have a similar worldview to that of Naomi “Shock Doctrine” Klein. It provides a very easy explanation of everything linking capitalism to zionism to racism to fascism and bundling it all up into one handy enemy responsible for every fault in the world. It is a simple worldview not based on reality but many people find it soothing. (It helps to explain why someone could feasibly claim that Israel’s existence is to blame for Tunisia’s low literacy rates, or how a return to a pre-industrial in Europe would make humanity stronger.)
The French are particularly susceptible to such oversimplified thinking. I was amazed at what brazen stupidity passes for serious journalism over there. As I said last week on PM, France is a one idea state which leads naturally to extremism as there are now counter-arguments in the public discourse. Just recently, for example, a French journalist recently said that Iran and America were equal because both were places where film makers are censored; the examples that were mentioned were Jafar Panahi, an Iranian that was imprisoned for supporting the opposition and was only just released today on bail after a week long hunger strike. He went on a hunger strike because he had no contact to his lawyer. Polanski, as I’m sure you know, is not wanted for his political beliefs. I also read a commentary last year in a French paper that said that, and I’m not joking, the election of Barack Obama PROVES that America is racist. That’s right. If we didn’t elect him, we would have been racist; since we did, we’re also racist. You can only believe such things when your entire culture lives in an echo chamber that plays your own opinions back at you like a chorus.
I have tried to pick Marie Claude’s beliefs out of her, even going to far as to suggest she set up a French language blog, but alas it remains a mystery to me. The French, as a people, seem to be under some form of collective delusion, a type of folie à 62,000,000. It rarely gets under my skin, but I admit I find it to enjoyable to present the French with facts and watch them backpedal and pretend like they were the one who just told you. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t think Europe will be able to reform. Most of the citizens there have heard one opinion from every political parties their entire life and they just aren’t able to comprehend that their reason for existing, their social market system, is unsustainable and will not make it into the future unscathed.
Thanks for such a complete response!
Jacob
“The French are particularly susceptible to such oversimplified thinking”
I told you (uh ?) that you’re very impregnated of the german spirit !
“The French, as a people, seem to be under some form of collective delusion, a type of folie à 62,000,000.”
correction my Herr, 64 millions et des poussières !
collective dellusion, aber nein, collective illusion !
but dellusion is fitting you more likely, I feel sorry for you to live in Hamburg, because you can’t appreciate its breit sides !
now, may-be you should consider that there aren’t only le Monde or Liberation as papers, but also la Tribune, l’Express, les Echos… sure they aren’t your cup of tea since you’re only looking for the medias that dellusion you and make you feel better in such a contempting cold german city, where you’re still be seen as a French, oh my !
Mon Dieu!
She still hasn’t reached the minimum comprehension level.
And yet insists on strutting.
That’s the gullible French the Good Doctor Kouchner addresses.
Da kommt der Brüderchen, tut mir Leid, I forgot your peanuts !
Thank you MC for proving my point. As I may have mentioned, I have lived in France. Twice. I know what your Press looks like, and I know the paucity of opinion they carry. And I have had a million conversations exactly like this one, usually ending with threats and screaming. Until the French are able to accept that parts of their society are deeply flawed, you’ll never be able to progress. Nothing good comes out of France that is not dairy related, la chanson du dimanche, or Audrey Tautou. If you want to progress, you will have to break the statist control that stifles everything the country does from its heavily subsidized films that no one outside l’hexagone watches to its innate cult of l’élite. For all of its incessant finger wagging, I’ve never met a group that is more militantly nationalist that the French.
It will also be quite predictable that you post a response to this that is so obscured in playground style “nuh uh, you are! you are!” and indecipherable über-nuance that scarcely anyone here knows what your point is. I posit we name a second category of speech: Langue de huh? The point is to purposefully perplex its victims into submission.
Before you hit respond, take a deep breath, the go here and take a long look at Hans Albers http://wearegovernment.blogspot.com/2010/05/auf-der-reeperbahn.html Your job will be to translate this into esperanto before coming back with more *uh?”‘s and cryptic retorts.
For the rest of you who need some comedic relief, find the video 2 posts above it entitled “Get Lazy.” It’s a classic.
Jacob
“If you want to progress, you will have to break the statist control ”
it won’t happen like you are lecturing us, because we have a Colbertist economy, so far we managed quite well with it. There are reforms to undertake, but not like you would like them, and certainly not draconian like UK, Greece or Spain decreat them lately, because this is the sure pass for recession. Now Retreats are going to be changed , 60 to 62 and to 63 years old, administrive positions aren’t replaced as soon as clerics are going on retirement… Changement, oui, mais pas sous la menace.
Besides our banks are more sanes than the German’s, or the Brits’
So no worry we’ll be still there to irritate your self awarded good sense for the next years
uh, don’t forget to bring bread to the Hamburg swans
“. . . By use of langue de bois, the former can bore the latter into indifference.” And thence, into submission.
Whatever the negative aspects of this man’s rhetoric, being Orwellian in nature in not one of them. Try again. Political correctness in the US has skads more. Try the idea of illegal immigrants entering the US without the regard to the ethics, morality or legality of it and then invoking those exact things to defend themselves once in the US. That is simple lying and hypocrisy. But Americans who buy into it and cannot see the former are deluded in a way that is Orwellian in nature; they cannot see the former because it is against their political world view to acknowledge it and so Americans on the Left bring a spoon to a knife fight. Orwell stopped his novel, ’1984′ in mid-stride just to make a point about what was essentially a version of political correctness. However, even with this famous blueprint, the Left in America is all at sea. Google Amanda Kijera to see how much so and look at how the semantic subversion of the word ‘profiling’ has occurred with the Arizona SB 1070 bill on immigration. Amanda Kijera’s ability to reason has been quite literally overwhelmed by her political beliefs and is a reflection of the Left in America and their addiction to semantic subversion and circumvention which they, unlike the evil government in ’1984′, are entirely unaware of.
What is unethical or immoral about a man risking hundreds of miles of desert to come to the United States and work to make a better life for his family back home. I’d call this heroic. I’d say its just the type of person we need in the US. Its a misdemeanor in this country, yes. But that doesn’t take away from sacrifice and value of these people who risk so much for their families.
There are many of us who agree that the Feds should control the border. There should be zero illegals allowed in. But please stop attacking these wonderful people who are taking advantage of the wink and nod our government is giving them and coming to work at great sacrifice for their families.
It only makes the conservatives and republicans look like a bunch of bigots. Which dismays me all the more because I am a republican and conservative. We’re killing ourselves with this one. If we just rephrased our opposition to illegal immigration in a way that puts the blame where it belongs, which is the government, and acknowledged the heroic family values of migrant workers who come here, then we’d have a lot more votes.
Bill, I’ve been to Guatemala 7 times for a total of 9 months and Mexico four times. Those people who come here don’t give two shits about America and heroic has nothing to do with it. If they were heroic they might fight a kind of revolutionary war in their own country and really sacrifice like European Americans did. In this context your use of the words heroic and sacrifice are as paltry as are the ethics of an illegal who exploits our system, marches in our streets with Mexican flags, brings increased heroin smuggling which kills our people, trashes our national parks and so many other things that I can only consider your remarks a well intentioned ignorance of what these people and their cultures are really like. It’s a dog eat dog mentality in much of Latin America and the phrase, ‘the good of all’, unknown. Assigning compassion to these types of people is bringing a spoon to a knife fight. They have no ethics in an American or European sense and would be not at all affected by ‘Crime And Punishment”. It just ain’t there. They are not like us, not by a long shot and one cannot project American values onto them. This is not an attack but an observation. I love my brother who is a career criminal. Is that an attack on him?
What offensive, shameful rubbish. I hope you don’t go around calling yourself a Republican and mouthing these obscenities at the same time.
Go to Guatemala and see how long you can avoid being robbed. Go to the highland border with Mexico and see the shanty town and all it’s garbage. There is nothing noble about illegally entering a country and latching onto free programs, overwhelming it’s culture by sheer weight of numbers, running away from the problems of your own country without staying and solving them. What world are you living in? Since you’re obviously a liberal and share their same delusions about nobility and where it doesn’t lie, I think you are a poser. What is shameful are people like you who illegal immigrants are laughing at because you have no idea what kind of a game is being played on you. Human trafficking, drug smuggling and the wars that come with it, kidnappings on American soil, the trashing of our national parks with tons of garbage, this is the legacy of your misplaced and naive compassion. People who ignore our laws and break them are neither heroic or indicative of sacrifice. Staying in one’s country and giving one’s all to improve it, that’s sacrifice. Your own misuse of these words is itself Orwellian in nature and proves my exact point that Americans have turned into sheep when it comes to resolve and a true understanding of what these people are like. What’s happening across this country is what is obscene and you are part of the problem because you are the exact reason these people have no fear to come here. In fact, these are exactly the types of people we do not want here because they think of no one but themselves and people with similar last names. They wouldn’t know the Magna Carta or anything about higher causes than themselves if I tattooed it on their chest.
“Bois” means woods or forest, IIRC. Then, doesn’t “langue de bois” mean forest talk? Would someone please explain the etymology of this phrase?
Forests..murky, pathless, entangled, no sun, no horizons, vegetative and passive.
Langue de bois actually means wooden language. If it were forest talk, you’d need a French construction that would equate to ‘language of the woods’ – langue du bois – where inserting the article ‘le’ would modify the preposition.
Hope that helps.
Welcome to France.
That’s not just Kouchner. That;s all of French political discourse. And to answer your question – yes they really think like that. That’s what inside their skulls. Hence the situation of Europe.
Hence the ability of the English and Germans to beat them in wars on a regular basis.
are you the forgotten soldier in a unknown Island of Asia ?
And yet we all pay each other’s bills now, eh what?
Those wars were either monumentally pointless, or not the point at all, and the real objective of the last 234 years has been achieved…
Eiwige Blumenkraft?
Last time I checked it was teh French who bore most of the burden in WWI so they won so they don’t lose against teh Germans in a regular basis. In fact if the French were able to conqueer Moscow (something the Germans were unable to do) is because they had previously kicked some Germn ass.
Against the English the French scored 64 to 62 in XVIIIth century + Napoleonic era battles. Also can you tell me when the French were defeated by an English girl?
Now the French are not that bad. Their main sin is not having shot De Gaulle alongside with Laval: in fact they were much alike thinking in France as a spider at the center of its web and selling itself at the highest bidder.
uh JFM, haden’t De Gaulle took the leadership of the Resistance, Roosevelt might never have entered into the war for the Brits alone, or not so early, The Brits might have had been invaded too, since it didn’t disturb America to make business with the Nazis so far
De Gaulle’s usefulness ended once the people of the island of Sein landed: if you read his book you will notice that he spent the war trying to hose it to the Allies not to th Germans.
Fo third parties: On July 18th 1940, someone heard De Gaulle’s speech on the only radio in the whole island of Sein. Next day the whole male population between 18 and 60 set to sail for England in order to join what would become the Free French Forces
JFM
De Gaulle’s usefulness ended once the people of the island of Sein landed: if you read his book you will notice that he spent the war trying to hose it to the Allies not to th Germans.
“On the outbreak of the Second World War de Gaulle took over command of the 5th Army’s tank force in Alsace. He soon became frustrated with the military hierarchy who had failed to grasp the importance of using tanks in mass-attacks with air support.
When the German Army broke through at Sedan he was given command of the recently formed 4th Armoured Division. With 200 tanks, de Gaulle attacked the German panzers at Montcornet on 17th May, 1940. Lacking air support, de Gaulle made little impact on halting the German advance.
De Gaulle was more successful at Caumont (28th May) when he became the only French commanding officer to force the Germans to retreat during the German Invasion of France”
“Whereas as President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the USA recognized Vichy France Winston Churchill refused and backed de Gaulle as leader of the “Free French”. Henri-Philippe Petain responded by denouncing de Gaulle. On 4th July, 1940, a court-martial in Toulouse sentenced him in absentia to four years in prison. At a second court-martial on 2nd August, 1940, sentenced him to death.”
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWdegaulle.htm
“In September 1941, De Gaulle created the Comité National Français (CNF; French National Committee), the Free French government-in-exile. On November 24 that year, the United States granted Lend-Lease support to the CNF.”
“The French Resistance gradually grew in strength. Charles De Gaulle set a plan to bring together the different groups under his leadership. He changed the name of his movement to Forces Françaises Combattantes (Fighting French Forces) and sent Jean Moulin back to France to unite the eight major French Resistance groups into one organisation. Moulin got their agreement to form the Conseil National de la Résistance (National Council of the Resistance). He was eventually captured, tortured, and executed by the Nazis.”
So De Gaulle might have been the political figure that you projected, but in the context, he was the only one figure onto whom Churchil, and Later Roosevelt could bet, as the relevant identity of the free France, as well for the French people.
Hadn’t he been in London to fuel interests into resistant movements, from UK and US, none else in France at this era would have been able to discuss the stakes and defend the means. But he was’nt a easy man for the Anglo-American coalition, that would have rather wanted a person complying to orders
Marie Claude
I told that De Gaulle’s usefulness ended on June 20th 1940 and you tell actions before this date. For the resistance it started without De Gaulle and didn’t need him to grow. His sole action was to put it under his rule and he succeeded by selling his soul to the ones who had betrayed France as soon as the ink was dry on the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The price was paid after the war.
But I have been a bit unfair about him: his usefulness ended once Tchad joined the allied cause as Tchad was crucial for supplying planes to Egypt: instead of going around Africa and arriving when they were already obsolete, planes were shipped in crates to the Gols Coast, reassembled and flown to Egypt through Tchad.
Now read his own book and notice how little ime he spends plotting against the germans and how much against the Allies.
“His sole action was to put it under his rule”
the different resistance movements were quareelling, and need to coordinate, only De Gaulle was able to match it.
For the rest, De Gaulle didn’t make what you said, but he did put in the balance to Roosevelt that if he couldn’t get more american involvment into french resistance, he would have to ask for Stalin contribution
uh, for the moment I have Chirac’s book to finish
Again, I believe you are being FAR too harsh on DeGaulle. The man wasn’t nice, and he could be bad to get along with, but he wasn’t anywhere NEAR Laval-bad. For one, he was one of the few French leaders who actually gave it his all in 1940 and who fled into exile when the rest of the incompetents threw in the towel.
And you are seriously underestimating his worth.
For one, Chad was a vital help to the Western Allied cause but it was not the only one: without the defection of the Congo and the Carribean colonies, the Western Allies would have risked the entirety of Western Africa blowing up in their face if and when Vichy finally openly sided with its masters. And he was also a major rallying point for the French, as the FF forces abroad showed.
And you also underestimate one of his greatest accomplishments: controlling the resistance. Yes, it is true that the resistance was already forming without him and likely would have even had he done nothing, but you forget that a LOT of it was not Democratic but Communist and Socialist. After a period of collaboration, Stalin had the French communists go underground and by the end they had become a major force in the underground and a threat to the West’s security even had France been liberated. The PCE itself boasted it was the “party of the 100,000 shot.” And those 100,000+ rebels could have easily turned their weapons on the Western Allies after the defeat of Germany. DeGaulle helped nip that threat in the butt by forming the FFI and forcing most of the French resistance into it and thus taming them all while upholding the legal continuity of the French Republic during its exile and thus preventing Stalin and his allies from replacing it wholesale like they did in Yugoslavia and elsewhere. A good deal of it came down to the fact that France was on the right side of Europe, but even Churchill and FDR themselves admitted the ugly nature of what France would have looked like- torn between the Communists on one side and the Vichyite collaborators on the other- without DeGaulle.
Fetching piece, Theodore.
But more like Obamalarkey than Breshnev, to whom I listened a bit.
The commies at least pretended to have facts by sprinkling their malarkey with Five Year Plan data and production quotas to give it a sheen of rationality.
Perhaps one could equally crown our fine President with the laurel of bois, as in bois de baloney. His tactic of opposing a preposterous proposition (one he tries to pretend his opponents are taking) with a proposition nobody could rightly oppose (his own pretended view). Below an invented sample of the device:
“There are those who say that horse flies are no longer of any use since the advent of the automobile, that they should be hunted down and killed at all costs to the last fly. But I say we have room in this great world of ours for all kinds of creatures, large and small.”
It takes no stretch of imagination to see Dr. Kouchner’s words or some very much like them appearing on Obama’s teleprompters. Politicians like them are opposed in principle to clarity. They prefer the blank screen on which others can project their beliefs and fantasies. It generally works the first time.
Teddy.. my English friend..take a listen to an Obama speech. Passivity on top
of abstraction, on top of indifference. Mark Steyns gem of example is the wretched case of Daniel Pearl whose head is slowly sawed off by Islamic animals and the videotape presented triumphantly to the world. Obamas take?..We should look at the
bright side…”Pearl paid the price of a Free Press”. This piece of garbage in the White House is incapable of thinking outside the iron box of Political Correctness
he cant even use the words Islamic Terrorist, let alone promise America
that we will get our revenge in full measure.
Did that SOB actually say that!?
Indeed. Also I am sure Doctor Utopia could tell you the sura that the beheading of the Jews comes from. It’s the Cow Sura by the way. The one the cultural enrichers all cling to as they pretend to be moderate.
Sleeper does not equal moderate…
Absolutely!
As I read the excerpts from Koucher, I kept thinking, “This isn’t so bad–empty of all facts and intellect, sure, but he IS a politician, after all.” Then I realized how low my standards have sunk after 2 years of hearing Obama.
1) Kouchner is an air-bag like his fellow, Bernard Levy – yet, unfortunately the French regard this grotesque posturing as a manifestation of, heavens! “Grandeur, monsier! Grandeur!” – and the annoying loudness of the language, the lamentable imprecision of it, the hystrionic nature of the French, and their deep-seated privincialism and cultural impotence make the French perpetuate this Monty Python act that the French “culture & civilization” is – “Mais non, monsier! Grandeur! Grandeur”
The best shortcut to fathom the French bombastic psyche is to listen to Hector Berlioz – Bokassa’s official hymn was a graceful piece when compared with the jarring circus that the French classical music is -
2) as far as Breznev, Kouchner’s hystrionics & fluffery, grotesque as they are, cannot be compared with the 8 hours long, dull discorses held by the Politburo top – no matter how absurd they were, under every euphemism there were hidden or intended countless tragedies -
Tell me Alceste, who, between Biden, Ashton, Kouchner isn’t representative of the grandeur of his/her country ?
got to say that then, you’re not in beautiful sheets too !
at least Kouchner is remarcked, and heard, but Biden is snobbed, and Ashton is back home for tea time
I’ll give you some new choices for the “charlatanie, turpitude and grandeur de France” (terms interchangeable):
1) Andre Malraux, thief, blakmailer (with years in jail), talentless writer who managed to inflict upon the french psyche as a “grandeur” symbol -
2) Exupery, same -
regards -
don’t think you’re safe behind this French Molière character, got a good idea of your old obsession, but until now you failed to manage the right facts
and tell me again how is your turpitude going these days ?
what about CFR conspiracies ? what have they cooked against the French that I don’t know through your rantings ? How much copyright do you owe them?
uh your guru Brezinski is annoided, his grand global governation is failing in front of awared citizens, though he’s been trying hard !
Villespin – in jail -
Pasqua – in jail -
A rotten pedophile like Mitterand junior – heh, at large and applauded by the same nation who is revolted by Polansky situation – Mais no, monsier! Grandeur!
Many more of your politicians and banksters should be in Jail too, but they aren’t ! Collusions of businesses ? oh dear !
I have a suggestion. Why don’t you start a French language blog? I’m not quite sure I can suss out your beliefs and the French language is not really the best vehicle for an English language news service. Try blogger.com and post the address here when you have started.
I don’t to plagiarise you
? Sorry, didn’t get that. Please expound.
“Idon’t-want- to plagiarise you
sorry,verb missing
well I got no time enough for it, and it would obviously be seen as one sign of the French arrorgance
But you should, dear.
It would give some substance to your blabber.
and your PHD smartiness doesn’t mean that you have smart nuts
The preferred phrase of French politicians is “faire en sorte que.” For example, faire en sorte que there is peace, prosperity, and happiness. Faire en sorte que there is justice for all. Faire en sorte que those who suffer, suffer no more.
Bernard Kouchner is a leading graduate of the faire en sorte que school. He has earned the laurels of a wagging langue de bois extraordinaire in conjuring a myriad of meandering musings to immanentize the eschaton under state guardianship ensuing from faire en sorte que.
that’s right, but Kouchner is also Mr “les pieds dans le plat” as more than often he should keep his mouth shut on foreign affairs, I wonder which lobby put him in such a fonction, the socialists don’t like him, the UMPists don’t like him… I think he just there for occupying the medias, serious things happen elsewhere
“serious things happen elsewhere” – but certainly no in France -
you’re loosing your mind mon ami !
but in California you have a concentration of pervets that has no concurrence elswhere, or may-be in Washington DC, you know some have some curious affairs, even in the toilets !
You’ve never read any of the climate alarmist polemics, have you? This is kid stuff compared to them.
As an Austrian philosopher remarked, the frontiers of (percieved) reality coincide with the frontiers of language. With language like this, in what reality these Eurointellectuals do live? It is certainly not the reality I can recognize. No wonder, even such ardent Eurooptimist as Timothy Garton Ash, melanholically complains: “They are rearanging chairs on Titanic deck lecturing the world about ocean navigation”.
Dr. Dalrymple is always a joy to read. Just when I think i must be missing something he assures me I didn’t miss a thing–the reality is that cuckoo.
I can’t think of anything less motivating than working for the good of “the state”.