KSM and His Great Traveling Terrorist Trial Is on the Move
Some things never seem to go away. These are generally held to include old luggage, herpes simplex type 2, and the idea of holding civilian trials for terrorists in New York.
As I reported earlier in this space, reactions from New Yorkers have been mixed, but the idea seemed to be dying a rapid death after New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg decided the big show would be bad for business. The governor pronounced it a flop, and Republican congressional leaders said the idea was all but dead.
But just because the Big Apple was being taken off the table, denizens of the Empire State may not be off the hook just yet. Nicholas Valentine, Republican mayor of heavily Democratic Newburgh, New York, has volunteered his home turf to host the trials.
At first glance, Newburgh might not seem like the most obvious choice for an alternate venue. With a population of roughly 28,000, it is decidedly un-Gothamlike in appearance. Nestled along the Hudson River, some 90 minutes from New York City, their dealings with violent criminal activity should generally run more along the lines of determining who started a fight at the local watering hole last week or which kids set a fire in the dumpster outside the Dairy Queen.
Appearances can be deceiving, however, since what Newburgh lacks in size, it at least partially makes up for in capabilities. It is home to Stewart Air National Guard Base, which has been used in the past to transport terror suspects and has a recently constructed courthouse with upgraded security facilities. Still, it’s quite small as cities go, with limited accommodations for the hordes of press that would doubtless descend on the region, and a corresponding lack of roads and parking for such a crowd.
Reactions to the mayor’s generous offer from the various local players arrived in a fast and furious rush. State Assemblyman Marc Molinaro (R-Red Hook) has been frequently mentioned as a potential contender for either the Senate or the governor’s office and he was clearly not a fan:
I am absolutely stunned that we could actually have elected officials welcoming terrorists to the Hudson Valley. It is insulting to cite economic gain out of the loss of thousands of lives and the loss of a global economic symbol.
Congressman Maurice Hinchey, who currently represents the district, took a somewhat more sanguine approach:
I don’t know for sure what he’s thinking about, but if there were adequate security and things were done in the appropriate way, it might be effective, but I would have to learn more about what he is suggesting.
Trials at Guantanamo are looking better and better, right Mr. Obama? I’d like to know, with big midterm elections coming up in a few months, what politician really wants to have radical Muslim jihadist killers brought into their district for a trial? The only politician who would want that is a politician who does NOT want to get re-elected. And if someone like Nancy Pelosi is so hot on civilian trials for these worthless killers, then why not re-open Alcatraz and hold the trials there? After all, Alcatraz used to be a Federal prison. I’m sure that with tons of nice Federal money as an incentive to fix the place up, she wouldn’t mind having KSM and those other pieces of dirt on trial in her own district. What do you say, Nancy, do you have the stones to live by your convictions and bring the terrorists to your own home town? That silence you hear is her response. I thought so.
Obama’s ludicrously baleful decision to try the killer terrorists under civilian criminal law is groundless. While giving these sewer rats all the
constitutional rights of American citizens, it removes any opportunity to question them in length as to where the next attack is coming from and going to, and precisely who is launching it. Both of which the Christmas bomber said he knew the answers to before Holder called in his lawyer
who told him not to talk anymore, talk that was 99% sure to save American lives.
Obama is a disgrace to his oath of office to preserve, protect and defend this nation against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
A MODEST PROPOSAL:
Why not hold KSMs trial before a joint session of Congress. That way, God forbid, if the Islamic jihadists mount a terrorist attack against the venue, at least no valuable lives will be lost. And we can use stimulus money to rebuild the destroyed builidngs. A win/win scenario,
An enemy combatant caught fighting not in uniform could be handled pursuant to the laws of war and summarily shot or he could be treated very generously and afforded a trial before a military commission civil. Affording him a civil trial shows weakness of mind and spirit.
The leftist meme that Gitmo is a recruiting tool is nonsense, as blather that we need to afford these terrorists civil trials to show how civilized we are.
Lack of Sharia and being seen as a weak horse are the biggest al Qaeda recruiting tools. So perhaps Americans should decide whether to adopt Sharia or elect a strong horse to replace Obama.
Is Guantanamo back in play as a trial venue?
I think that outcome would be prudent, manageable, and effective. Not sure who, legally, would preside over a civilian trial there…but, if that hurdle could be overcome, (and one could find a jury that met our specifications…a whole other issue)…makes sense.
Of course, I never understood where foreign terrorists who intended to mass murder Americans based upon a declared holy war/jihad…were going to find a “jury of their peers”.
Does this mean that we have to seat nothing but deranged Islamofascists, based upon a venire of nothing but foreigners who hate us?
It seems to me we can’t find any of those folks now, since we capture them and refuse to ask them any questions, no matter what they stuff in their underwear.
We build agencies for questioning them, of course…sort of like the Seinfeld episode where Jerry makes a reservation for a car, they have the reservation, they just don’t have the car. He says, the whole concept is not to have reservation…it’s to have the car.
The whole point of the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group is not
in creating it , it would seem…but in actually having …you know…like people in it…who are doing…something, anything.
Or perhaps, when they say “High-Value”, this administration is talking about the $200 million dollars it will cost to try each and every one of them…as opposed to …say…the $15,000 cost of a trial for an enemy combatant. On a base. Filled with trained soldiers. You know, our military. Who are trained to deal with…um…enemy combatants.
But, hey. if they can figure out a way to find a place where a “jury of peers” people who don’t particularly like America the way it is and want to tear it down and start over, and don’t have all that much love for our military…I can think of a few. Hollywood comes to mind. Michael Moore would make a perfect foreman. Perhaps Sean Penn. Maybe Alec Baldwin. Oliver Stone. James Cameron appears to have a notion or two about our Marines.
Otherwise, a “jury of one’s peers” appears to be a thorny issue that puts the system to the test.
Which brings us back to Guantanamo. The only “peers” that a combatant in a declared war might have…are combatants themselves. Take the trial to Guantanamo, swear in the Marines as civilians, seat them…and have the trial. “Peers” would all be seated to pass judgment.
It reminds me, just a bit though… of an NBA player named Lloyd Free, who did not get along with the sports press at the time, they really didn’t like him. Anyway…Lloyd decided to change his name to World B. Free…and insisted he be called that. Except some in the antagonized press decided to nickname him. The nickname they chose..was Lloyd.
This administration could move this trial back to Guantanamo, for causing a “man made disaster” on our home soil…with a “jury of peers” being military combatants in a declared war..holy or not…and nickname it a “civilian” tribunal.
Works for me.
I’m in that district. Maurice Hinchey is an idiot.
Try him in hell with the Devil as his court-appointed counsel.
excellent choice, Newburg, is acessable to I87, and a new interchange is being constructed, to link I87 with I84, the town itself, could use a business boost,less than 10 miles away on I 84, stands the a maximum security prison, and there are many hotels, and services in the area.And having the trial there, would not disrupt,the local population, since not much is happenimng there.
Keep the trial in NYC. They (NYC) voted overwhelmingly for Obama so let them participate in his administrations’ decisions. The only other place I would choose would be San Francisco.
9. Jack:
I agree. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of stupid liberals.
But wherever it happens (if it does), it will be in a liberal district. And I bet they’ll like it. Rivers of federal money flowing in for SEIU types, and maybe a reporter or two, as long as they’re there, will do some stories on the half-dead local industry destroyed by unions and now demanding an import ban or sky-high tariffs on whatever they used to mine or manufacture.
Frakkin’ stupid liberals drive me nuts.
1st off I want to say that I find the fact the Newburgh Mayor wants to capitalize on 9/11 trails absolutely offensive.
2nd: As someone who was born and raised in Brooklyn New York, I must say your description of Newburgh as a small town is totally inaccurate. Newburgh is a small city, but its crime is anything but small. Newburgh is known for its high volume of gun and drug trafficking. In the City of Newburgh Gang violence is the norm not the exception. If you would have actually taken the time to drive through Newburgh you would see block after block of abandoned buildings that are currently being used as crack dens. You couldn’t pay me enough to walk those streets at night.
3rd: The traffic situation in Newburgh is terrible. Newburgh doesn’t have the proper infrastructure to deal with a serge in traffic.
either the obama-kennedy whitehouse or eric holder’s place would be appropriate.
The decision to try these killers in civilian court 5 blocks from gound zero is the worst decision made by a President in my lifetime.
Why these animals should be afforded rights under the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and the US Constitution is beyond my understanding. The trials would cost over a billion dollars and would afford this scum the ultimate forum to advocate for their nutty, misogynistic, interpretation of Islam. The discovery requests and endless discovery motions would drag out the proceedings for at least 18 months, and I would bet, more than two years. The entire time NYC would be an even more juicy target for the Islamic facsists whose stated goal is to kill all infidels. The inconveinence for New Yorkers would be monumental, people who have already suffered directly because of this vermin.
If Obama is regaining his senses, this rable needs to be tried in a military court, that is the proper venue. There should be no cameras. The trial should afford them minimal rights as perscribed by our Supreme Court. The convictions should be reviewed by an appeal authority and sustained. After that, each of these murdereers should be executed by firing squad in an undisclosed location so the other Islamic detritus are denied an opportunity to visit the spot where they decended into hell. Their bodies should then be cremated.
Obama’s decision to try this garbage in District Court in NY is indefensible. General Holder’s advice regarding this upset the entire NY congressional delegation who are unanimously opposed to this foolish choice of venue. Holder should be fired for the incompetence displayed by this feckless decision. He demonstrates by his decision a lack of judgement that should disqualify him from further administration of the Dept of Justice. His command to treat the underwear bomber as a civilian further confirms his appalling misunderstanding of warfare and our enemy.
This seems like a perfectly reasonable idea. Why not? There are other places that are probably better. Fort Stockton, Texas comes to mind. Small community with a local prison to house the jihadi. Miles and miles of west Texas desert so you can see them coming. Few major roads into the region for hundreds of miles. Potential jurors that also speak in broken English. And the best part is that all those east coast elite press people could learn something about struggling in small town America hours and hours from any arugula.
Even Carter was not as incompetent as obama. LOL
Stop the insanity and go ahead with the results of the military tribunals and do so in Guantanamo! There is a good reason why they were taken there in the first place with security being one of the utmost, not to mention financial concerns!
What we are seeing is on the job training for a very inexperienced man with no understanding of our national security or our military. However he is now the president but surely there are advisors that should let him know that some of the quick decision he has made should be carefully weighed for any number of reasons. The problem is that this country can not sit around while it dawn on him what the correct approach to national security policy is!
Vote out as many democrats as possible and let people that are more concerned with our nations security help the idiot in chief know what is best instead of “Universal Health Care Cap and Trade and Immigration Reform”!
The first thing that gets overlooked in this absurd drama is that these dangerous actors were captured alive, not killed in the field, which would have been more expeditious, more dispositive, and less dangerous. All the additional risks involved in capture as opposed to on-site annihilation can be a sensible investment if the intelligence value of the target has a reasonable chance to be exploited soon enough thereafter, by competent specialists.
This means that the question of ultimate disposition has been deferred until after the completion of the intelligence debriefing process. What’s wrong with military courts when it comes to final disposition and why not have it done in Guantanamo? The arguments against this will have some purchase on you if believe that fighting our enemies is misguided, or even worse, that the terrorists would cease and desist if we just ignored them. These arguments do not advance the truth, but they have been used effectively to discredit the war effort and its proponents, and even its ultimate fighters, our military personnel. Just shameful.
This is childish and irresponsible, and one of the sources of energy for the tea parties, where grownups asking for the respect of common sense have a chance to meet and display their frustration. Eliminating Manhattan as the venue is only the first step towards the further elimination of civilian justice as a process. This kind of reversal takes time and effort, but if those who are frustrated by a systematic rejection of common sense do not give up the fight, it will happen.
No offense to the municipalities who could use the visit of the biggest circus in the world to prop up their local economy. This is too important for nickel and dime considerations.
KSM declared dead, then reanimated for entertainment of the USA sheeple.
Professor at 17,
You touched on a point not lost on a soldier. Given what the administration orders when an Islamic facsist is captured, namely that he be afforded constitutional rights, an attorney and a civilian trial, were I the hunter my enemy combatants would all be listed as killed in direct action while resisting capture. No way would I risk the lives of my soldiers to capture scum that would then be afforded the rights of a US citizen.
I openly laugh at the intellectual inconsistency of the “progressives” now running the government when they afford the crotch bomber and KSM Miranda rights while slaughtering squads of enemy combatants who happen to be discovered in hiding in some mud structure in Wazeristan. The former is an example of a disconection with reality, while the later is an acknowledgement of the actualities of warfare. Each decision is made by the same Commander in Chief. He must be schizophrenic to pull it off, there is no rational justification for the difference in treatment.
I’m trying to recall how many terrorist-related attacks have occurred when other terrorists were tried in civilian courts…
I can remember, however, how many of the terrorists tried under the previous administration were convicted – three (3) – and that only one of the three still remains incarcerated. The other two have served their time and were released.
The US has successfully convicted ~350 terrorists (international and domestic) in the courts and housed them in US prisons.
I am always amazed at the big tough guy attitude you have about going over there and getting them and then the qualms you display about (gasp!) trying them here and (breathe!) putting them in supermax jails here.
Who’s afraid of KSM and the other combatants to be tried in US courts?
Now, if we talk costs, security, etc. and that moving the venue to a US military base, but keeping it a US criminal trial, then I’m open to that.
The legalities of military tribunals have been questioned (see Supreme Court US) and it makes more sense to have these high-profile trials not inherently having the legality of the process itself in question.
KSM should have been shot at dawn a long time ago. Right after a fair military trial.
Next terrorist please.
21@Leatherneck
He was dead a long time ago. He lives on in your head. CIA is chock full of mental patients open to suggestion and false memories. They make the perfect soldiers, like the brainwashed women in Salt Lick City who shot the preschool teacher for no apparent reason whatsoever on Saturday. The elite only require stupid sheeple to bleat in unison at these “news items”.
#22,
I’m not sure, but should you have used the SARC button? Or, are you trying to compare for real a women in Salt lake with KSM?
WTF over?
Leatherneck -
Please excuse kochevnik. This poster inevitably pops his head up whenever any item regarding KSM gets posted here. He always refers back to a single article which appeared YEARS ago in the Asian Times (?) in which a single reporter strung together several anecdotal stories and claimed, based on these stories, that KSM had in fact been killed in a shootout in Karachi Pakistan back in 2002 (or was it 2003 – I can’t remember).
Apparently kochevnik is under the impression that this SINGLE REPORTER managed to be the only one with the TRUE STORY and that it therefore follows (logically?) that the U.S. (military? CIA? MIB?) is holding someone else. For whatever reason I’ve never been able to ascertain…..
I’ve tried to engage kochevnik on this a few times (What’s the Frequency Kenneth?) but I think his tuner is on the fritz……
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=100966
kochevnik -
I started to write a long response to the ‘evidence’ provided in your link but got distracted by the advertisements for “Diana: Queen of Heaven
oops – posted too quickly.
I guess I really WAS distracted by all the advertisements for New Age Mumbo Jumbo in the sidebars of your “RumorMillNews” link.
Serious questions:
What is the UPSIDE to inventing a stand-in for KSM if KSM were in fact dead? What would be the point?
What are the RISK involved in such a substitution?
How does the UPSIDE outweigh the RISK?
If one were to use a stand-in, why choose someone ALREADY IDENTIFIED IN THE PRESS?
http://truthandcommonsense.com/2010/02/03/mixing-different-stories-to-make-one-point-feds-obam-mao-blackwater-china-ksm-and-the-rule-of-law/
I tried to put my spin on the actions of Crazy Holder and his dancing fools at DOJ. Believe me, the regular career attorneys there must be pulling their hair out. But this has never been about justice, it is all about politics, and Obama is about to be hoisted on his own petard.
Like I’ve commented here before, the left cannot have it both ways, unless they are willing (and able) to throw the rule of law out in exchange for the rule of advancing Obama. For years we’ve heard about the violations of the Patriot Act, but in this case we are seeing something even far more dangerous- the open indictment of a person’s guilt and planned execution, BEFORE a trial! By government officials!! Why bother with the trial, let’s get some wood together, pound in a stake and get some gas for accelerant and light the match. Heck, with KSM I’ll go get the wood.
But, our nation is supposed to be a nation governed by the rule of law, or so I’ve been told by every leftie in the country for about eight years. Now, with Obama’s misguided decision to try KSM in civilian court in New York (how about that being a double dumba**ed decision!)he has found what Cheney/Bush and the last crew knew all along. It sounds fine on paper and when you are talking about it in a small elite San Fran dinner party while sipping champagne, BUT it sure stinks to high heaven when laid out in the light of day. Duh!!
Nobody in the right mind wants to have KSM near them. Especially now with the CIA chief saying there very well may be a big attack somewhere in the nation in the next three to five months. Let’s see, imagine a group of terrorists already in country, (and they are and have been) trying to decide where to plant bombs and shoot up malls and schoolyards.
“Ali, I look at the map and I am having trouble picking a spot.”
“Achmed, just pick a spot. Close your eyes and punch the map it does not matter.”
“But it must have meaning, praise Allah, so we must chose carefully.”
“Wait listen to the news, they are bringing our brother to the center of the city of Satan, New York. I think Allah has answered our prayers. Let’s gather and strike!”
If you think they won’t, you have another thing coming. Take an elite New York school hostage and demand the release of KSM, who will be on our mainland in a jail. How do we win that??
The simple answer is we can’t and we shouldn’t put our citizens in harm’s way to make a point only far left and college intellectuals (and Juan Williams, Chris Matthews, and Keith “I hear voices in my head” Olbermann) want to make. Common sense, simple common sense. If the snake isn’t messing with you, don’t kick it to see what happens.
we are constantly awestruck by the odd decision making of this peculiar fellow, barry. we might as well be asking why does this chicken cross the road?
answer: beeeeeccaaaausssse he is a moslem. period.