J Street Exposed
Much of J Street’s duplicity and problematic agenda can be read between the lines in statements by its executive director Jeremy Ben-Ami. Asked about J Street’s funding from Arab and Muslim sources, Ben-Ami said (worth quoting despite somewhat dense verbiage):
I think it is a terrific thing for Israel for us to be able to expand the tent of people who are willing to be considered pro-Israel and willing to support Israel through J Street. … We are so clearly pro-Israel, and we are an organization that is grounded in and based in Jewish values and a Jewish desire to support the state of Israel, that if someone wants to choose to do their political giving through us, it’s more a question for them: Do they want to be seen to be giving their money through us? If they do it, that’s the statement they’re making.
You don’t need a graduate degree in psychology to see the “protesting-too-much” nature of this pronouncement. Someone who is genuinely pro-Israel, and certain of it, would never need to hammer home his allegiances so blatantly — and all in the service of claiming that people who are anti-Israel are actually pro-Israel and can prove it by donating to J Street.
Ben-Ami sounded similar notes in his recent exchange of letters with Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman, who criticized J Street for overemphasizing the settlements issue while ignoring the Palestinians’ and Arabs’ rejection of peace with Israel. Ben-Ami said in his reply: “I welcome your response and value the opportunity for civil dialogue within the American Jewish community among friends of the state of Israel.” Again, shouldn’t that be too obvious to need such iteration?
And Ben-Ami — after praising the Saudi “peace plan” that mandates Israel’s total unilateral withdrawal and its inundation with alien Arabs before supposedly obtaining Arab recognition — went on to write:
The sides — left to their own devices — have not proven able to take the final tough steps to close [the] gaps. We know the political constraints facing Prime Minister Netanyahu. President Abbas faces similarly difficult domestic politics.
Yet the answer is not to paper over the differences between the sides, but to resolve them. And that’s where the international community, and in particular the United States, come in. Only a serious, credible, and fair international mediator — namely, the United States — can help to close the gaps and reach a resolution.
There, at least, Ben-Ami’s words reflect J Street’s true agenda — as their website puts it, “to promote meaningful American leadership to end the Arab-Israeli and Israeli-Palestinian conflicts peacefully and diplomatically.” That is, J Street is a lobby to encourage the Obama administration to do something — “end” the conflict — even if the “sides” aren’t ready for it, don’t like the terms, or are being pushed into something against their will.
Regarding the Arab and Palestinian side, for J Street that entails resolutely and “ideologically” ignoring all evidence, however stark — such as the recent Fatah conference in Bethlehem — that they have not accepted Israel and hence are incapable of meaningfully making peace with it. Regarding the Israeli side, it means ignoring and contemptuously dismissing the positions of the elected Israeli government and of a population bloodied, traumatized, and made more skeptical by the dire outcomes of Israel’s recent ventures at peacemaking — a population for which J Street has neither empathy nor respect.
No wonder Jeremy Ben-Ami protests so fulsomely about what a great Jew and friend of Israel he is.
Self-hating Jews aligned with Jew-haters. J-Street is the American version of what Ya’alon called a virus. J-Street, and the rest of the moronic Jewish left, won’t be happy until Israel is gone, and that’s the sad truth.
J Street is the reason that “Z” Street was formed. We needed to give a voice to the public that says J Street IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE of Jewish sentiment, and any group that is funded and supported by Arab and Muslim money cannot be a lobby group speaking for American Jews. This is just a Trojan Horse, and should be looked at with skepticism . Z Street is not afraid to say “Zionism is NOT a four letter word!”
Geeee Whizzz….
You mean all is not as is presented? You mean that no one in the media is telling the truth about what is actually happening, even when we know that they know it is?
I wonder, what could be going on? There I go again! Me and my conspiracy theories! Now I’m hearing ducks quacking, I’m seeing ducks walking and I see, well, ducks… Are they really a ducks or more of those hallucinations?
When some one lies to you they have a reason and the chances are that your best interests are not their primary motivator…
For more see Monday’s Jerusalem Post story, J Street’s dangerous detour to the White House.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418678387&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
There is NOTHING as dumb as a Liberal Jew. Always the first into the ovens. some people are beyond educating.
#1: progressoverpeace:
I agree with you.
The money tells all, but the efforts of J-Street and others like them will avail nothing because G-d made promises to Abraham and will keep them.
J-Street is a facade, a front organization with an anti-Israel agenda, this despicable movement should have been exposed long ago!!!
For every article about J-Street, consider writing something about Z-Street. The media attention generated will help Z-Street develop and grow.
This shows what can happen to Jews, or anybody, who put their primary trust and faith in a mad political theory.
J Street is a page out of the communist mind control play book. J Street Jews have been intellectually emasculated. They no longer see themselves as Jews but are somehow a part of the new age of globalized citizenry for social equality and justice. In other words they are brain dead and can’t recognize the fact that they are now in the process of self extermination.
They share the same disease that has infected the liberals of this country. They can’t deal with the reality of a cold cruel world so they retreat into their fantasy land of a new world order. Guess what. No Jews allowed.
Let me first state that I have no love for J Street, Peace Now, or any of the anti Israel Left wing Jewish organizations which claim to have Israel’s interests at heart while at the same time presenting Israel as the worst threat to humanity in history.
That said, I believe that often inconsistent, contradictory, and even obviously dangerous Israeli diplomatic and security policies are largely responsible for the appearance and growth of these Jewish Left wing anti Israel groups. American and European Jews, not to mention Israel supporting Gentiles, have been confused, disheartened, and disillusioned by Israeli policies and governements time and again, and some of these really decent people have just about given up on us in Israel.
Yitchak Rabin, Ehud Barak, and Ariel Sharon, all former IDF Generals, Defence Ministers, and Prime Ministers, developed and implemented diplomatic and security policies which endangered and even cost the lives of thousands of Israeli Jews, but also left many supporters of Israel in the Diaspora simply aghast. Rabin, in spite of mass demnostrations opposing it, invites into Israel the arch terrorist killer Arafat, arms his 200,000 strong terrorist militia, and when as expected those terrorists under Arafat’s direct orders go on a killing rampage against Israeli civilians, Rabin just pushes Arafat all the harder. Ehud Barak goes to Camp David and essentially surrenders all of Israel to Arafat and gets a terror war in return. Ariel Sharon, in defiance of all the tenets of democracy, and in violation of his own Likud platform, expels 10,000 Israeli Jews from their homes in Gaza and the Shomron and gets daily Palestinian rocket and missile attacks in return.
With leaders like this and policies like that, it is no wonder that Israel has lost support from our most vocal and vehement allies, American Jewry and the American government.
Recovering that support and faith will take time and effort, as well as clear and unmistakeably pro Israel policies on the part of the Israeli government.
Israel must behave wisely and with strength only thus will we regain the respect and fear of our enemies and the support of our allies.
Only thus will we be able to toss anti Israel pro terrorist groups like J Street and Peace Now into the gutter where they belong.
As long as J Street has no time for the “I and Thou” relationship that Martin Buber wrote about, their Jewishness only depends on externals. Which, as the Sons of Allah demonstrate, leads to hypocrisy.
How many Saudi Arabians citizens, when they vacation outside of that benighted land, cast aside their restrictive dress, and more, when they are
not in that benighted land?
More than enough to notice a trend.
#2: ‘J Street is the reason that “Z” Street was formed. We needed to give a voice to the public that says J Street IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE of Jewish sentiment….’
Without judging J Street, one might ask whether, given AIPAC and a plethora of other Zionist organizations (God bless ‘em!), Z Street is really needed.
#12 Ken
You are right on target. The actions of the Israeli government leave supporters bewildered and dumbfounded. It seems Israelis are their own worst enemies. I remember after the Rabin treaty with Arafat, dozens of buses were blown up by terrorists, and his response was to mouth some platitude about “the painful price of peace”. When the number of rockets and dead Jews reach a certain threshold (one that would be INTOLERABLE in any civilized country), they conduct a half-a$$ed war to “root out the terrorists” (Gaza and Lebanon, for example)only to snatch defeat from any potential victory, and essentially surrender to the opinion of the loudest Jew-haters, and not achieve any of their goals. Israelis have also released thousands of terrorists with blood on their hands to “advance peace” or in exchange for a couple of dead bodies, which essentially says that Jewish blood is cheap, and Jewish hostages are worth the same dead or alive (better dead, since now Hamas knows that they can extract the same concessions and not worry about feeding or caring for their hostages).
#5- Genghis: I cannot for the life of me understand the mentality of a liberal Jew. I disagree with you, however, that they would be the first into the ovens. Instead, they would gladly throw their fellow Jews into the ovens if it enhanced their liberal credentials, only to be shocked when they themselves meet the same fate.
A Jewish liberal is the same as one of those bumbling suicide bombers who blow up only themselves and their own families.
A little gallows humor to lighten the absurdity of Jews hating Jews and Israel.
Jews and Arabs should sit down and settle their differences like good Christians. Warren Austin 1877-1962 American Politician
Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis. Brendan Behan 1923-64
I’m Super Jew. Lenny Bruce American satirist as he jumped while drunk from a window, he survived with a broken leg. 1923-66.
How odd of G-d to choose the Jews. William Ewer
But not so odd as those who choose a Jewish G-d but spurn the Jew. Cecil Browne in response to Ewer
It is extremely difficult for a Jew to be converted, for how can he bring himself to believe in the divinity of anther Jew. Heinrich Heine German poet and writer 1797-1856
Since my daughter is only half-Jewish, could she go in the water up to her knees? Groucho Marx, 1895-1977. A reply after being excluded from a beach club on racial grounds.
I hope the Jews and Gentiles had some chuckles. Have a nice day!
Jews are their own worst enemy. Also, it is shameful for American jews to back a man like Obama. they need to have their history “retold” to them.
16…thank you.
esp
How odd of G-d to choose the Jews. William Ewer
But not so odd as those who choose a Jewish G-d but spurn the Jew. Cecil Browne in response to Ewer
What can be said to people who see antisemitism in the presence of gentiles in a pro-Israeli group? Moreover, who see their being welcomed as proof of that antisemitism. To be pro-Israel is not synonymous with being Israeli, being Jewish, or being a Zionist. But AIPAC and its fellows hold this to be true. Soon, they will require their American members to take out Israeli citizenship as proof of their loyalty.
God bless the Jews who strive for peace in the face of the fierce determination to kill by both their friends and enemies. They will always have the support of America.
Guys. We’re not all braindead. There will be change.
“What can be said to people who see antisemitism in the presence of gentiles in a pro-Israeli group?”
It’s not just Gentiles, but viciously antisemitic Gentiles.
Tell me, what possible spin can you put on an outfit which praises Hamas as a “partner for peace?” Hamas, an organization sworn not merely to the violent destruction of Israel, but the death of every Jew in it?
And remember, the whole operation was founded and part-funded by Nazi collaborator George Soros.
My god, what a bunch of crap. Because a group dedicated to changing the dynamic of the US relationship to Israel gets a whopping 3% of its funding from Arabs–in fact, people whose thoughts and ideas we have no clue about, except that they’re Arab…OMG, they must want to destroy Israel.
This is exactly the reason why the pro-Israel articles on the site get the least commentary. In a world of really petty, authoritarian, bootlicking and uncritical idiots, you dummer-than-sack-of-door-knobs pro-Israel automatons simply go too far. People here like their fantasies American flavored partner–they have enough keeping their mythological bestiaries catalogued for US wingnuttery–Kenya, secret-muslim, death panels, socialism–without having to take on your paranoid mishigaz on top of it.
12. Ken Besig:
Your capacity to discern the true nature of a situation is a perfect hit.
As an avid reader of foreign publications – including Israeli ones – I have come across to this article:
One government official denounced a foreign financed Leftist anti-Israeli organization as a Virus. The current prime minister severely reprimanded him for these (true) word.
The same prime minister – with a bizarre turn – complained to the British for the Brit government for their financing of anti-Israeli groups….
My observation is that the Jewish people are the only ones capable to hold two, mutually exclusive concepts simultaneously: communism and capitalism, behold Soros, caving in to their enemies and fighting them at the same time….any many other, stupefying, incomprehensible acts that you delineated in you post.
The sad part of this attitude is that instead of making friends on both side of the precipice they antagonize just about everybody.
If a black organization received even 1% of its funds from the KKK and Aryan Nation, would it not behoove “mainstream” black individuals and the NAACP to more closely examine this group, and no one would begrudge their suspicion of said group’s intentions. I guess it is different with Jews and Israel.
I am sure that Fred (#18) would think it is just fine if a Jewish organiztion, funded by the German-American Bund, existed in WWII, with the intention of stopping Nazi ovens with a “diplomatic solution,” and called the Nazi command a “government, law and order, and service provider” that must be left in place.
To seek peace at any price with an enemy that just wants you dead is suicide, and the elites in the Jewish community and American left have no business acting as Dr. Kavorkian. To give up a tangible asset in response to the promise of cessation of violence and murder is called extortion and is a crime in most nations.
bibio44 (#14) writes, “Without judging J Street, one might ask whether, given AIPAC and a plethora of other Zionist organizations (God bless ‘em!), Z Street is really needed.”
AIPAC itself has been moving “left”, sending scores of recent conference attendees to lobby Congress in favor of more US involvement in the peace process, the two state solution, etc. FYI: The new head of AIPAC is a friend of Obama and was a major supporter in the election.
As to other more distinctly Zionist organizations, some like ZOA are too tied to one person. We Jews are often quick to establish another group if the current one isn’t just right.
To Steve Sampson who offered “A little gallows humor to lighten the absurdity of Jews hating Jews and Israel”: Humor is how we get through it. (In contrast, Khomeni insisted “There is no humor in Islam”. It shows.)
Moho burst into rage!
Hey Commie, don’t let your Jew-hatred fester in your bellies, let it out, spit the foam from out mouth…Hurry, kiss the Messiah purple lips,
he needs your kind of Hex#663300 colored Freedom Fighters!
Heil Zelaya, Hugo, Fidel! Allah be praised, Subhan’Allah (Arabic سبحان الله) Abajo los judios!
Are you are fatally attracted anything Jewish?
If a black organization received even 1% of its funds from the KKK and Aryan Nation, would it not behoove “mainstream” black individuals and the NAACP to more closely examine this group, and no one would begrudge their suspicion of said group’s intentions.
You are an idiot. Somehow in your pointy head, being Arab is equivalent to being in the KKK. Think about this, dumbass. If all Arabs have exactly the same beliefs, then so do whites. In fact, the comparison would be that any white support would be equivalent to the KKK. Do you understand? I have a feeling you won’t because the fact that you’re so comfortable spewing such silliness indicates that your skull is full of ganglion, rather than brains.
#25:
Typical of you libs to just do ad-hominem attacks. Read this, from article, a$$wipe: “Regarding the Arab and Palestinian side, for J Street that entails resolutely and “ideologically” ignoring all evidence, however stark — such as the recent Fatah conference in Bethlehem — that they have not accepted Israel and hence are incapable of meaningfully making peace with it.”
But your brain is so demented by lib propaganda that you cannot get your stupid head around the overwhelming evidence that these Arabs do not want peace, and their actions have proven their bad intentions. So peace with such a group is as useful and dangerous as giving your hand to a pit viper. Do some research. But you can’t argue with fools, or debate small-minded schoolboys whose verbiage has not grown beyond playground insults.
The worst enemy of the Jews historically after the Nazis have been themselves. What a disgrace.
Its interesting that the recent conference in Bethlehem chose the successor to Abbas. I don’t recall his name but he isn’t a Palestinian rather he’s a Tunisian with a reputation of Israel hating. He has openly avowed the destruction of Israel.
Its nice to know that the population of Palestine is in such capable hands.
Another cowardly racist post. I’ve also taken a screen shot of it and noted that no regular commenter had anything to say about it.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/j-street-exposed/#comment-25
25. Thomas:
Moho burst into rage!
Hey Commie, don’t let your Jew-hatred fester in your bellies, let it out, spit the foam from out mouth…Hurry, kiss the Messiah purple lips,
he needs your kind of Hex#663300 colored Freedom Fighters!
Heil Zelaya, Hugo, Fidel! Allah be praised, Subhan’Allah (Arabic سبحان الله) Abajo los judios!
Are you are fatally attracted anything Jewish?
J Street is actually the best friend of the Jewish state. Israel has no recognized authoity to hold onto the west bank unless it is willing to grant all non-Jews living there full citizenship. And Jews have no business being in that territory, the territory that some of them call Judea and Samaria unless they are willing to live in those areas under Arab majority rule. By pointing out these simple but unarguable facts, J Street is working to keep Zionism legitimate, and working to actually forestall the destruction of Zionism by positing an alternative to a one-state, non-zionist solution, which we are going to hear about more and more often.
MoHo, comoic books provide only a limited understanding of history. You need to diversify your sources.aout the real world you know for nothing. Happy toking.
I’ll take anything to help end the influence of AIPAC and it’s deplorable policies.
@30. Moho:
Hey Commie, we are under the protection of the 1st. Am. – no crass vulgar expressions used, no other poster is called by names, being racist is your private opinion – and it is not against the law, – are you the self appointed Forum Warden? Posting rules are observed.
We are living in the Marxist Multiculturalism, my culture permits me to say what I say and your Hex#663300 color tribe can go pound sand either at the Orinoco or on the beaches of Mombasa where they belong…
Got it Comrade?
Why do you call other posters as idiot, dumbass ?(#26)
31. Markus:
J Street is actually the best friend of the Jewish state. Israel has no recognized authoity to hold onto the west bank unless it is willing to grant all non-Jews living there full citizenship.
LOL. Except for Jordan, the Palestinian state, basically none of the so-called Palestinians have gotten citizenship in other arab states that they have been living in for decades. In fact, more Palestinians have gotten Israeli citizenship, or even American citizenship, than citizenship in any arab nation outside of Jordan. This isn’t by chance, but by design, as the arab league long ago declared that none of their members should give Palestinians citizenship. And you are claiming that Israel has an obligation to extend citizenship to people who were on the losing side of several wars against Israel? You are insane. Go take your stupidity and your Israel-hate elsewhere.
Dear Pajamas: Can we limit the number of stupid comments by MoHo? He can’t even spell his name correctly. I believed in freedom of speech but he abuses the privilege. He tries to shout down everyone with a rational comment. His hate America first is getting tedious. He is a one trick pony that constantly insinuates every conservative is a Neanderthal Racist, and that life in America was unbearable until Obama came along. He has the same message over and over. He must be getting paid by Acorn to monitor this site.
progressoverpeace — with friends like you, why would Israel need enemies?
The reason the Arab states haven’t given the Palestinians citizenship in their states is that the Palestinians have no loyalty or connection to those states. “Pan-Arabism” never quite got off the ground, THANK GOD, and it is amusing to see right-wing Zionists embracing it as a good idea.
Answer this question: if Israel is to hold on to the West Bank, what state should the non-Jews who LIVE in that territory belong to?
You may consider yourself a supporter of Israel, but you have NO ANSWER to my question, unless you’re willing to accept Jewish-MINORITY rule of Eretz Israel, or accept the ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Christians from the West Bank.
To #20, to your cogent response to #18 I would add in reply to his saying “To be pro-Israel is not synonymous with being Israeli, being Jewish, or being a Zionist.” that the first two are self-evident and the third is absurd. Zionism is the movement for establishing an autonomous Jewish nation state on the site of their ancient homeland. Israel is that state, and its establishment was the goal of the Zionist movement. If you support the existence of Israel, you are a Zionist. If you think Israel should not be a nation state of the Jewish people, then you do not support Israel, you support the existence of something else. This does not, contrary to much nonsense on the subject, require expelling non-Jews or depriving them of legal rights, and in fact Israeli law recognizes their existence and rights, not unlike the existence of Scottish citizens who are not ethnic Scots and Japanese citizens who are not ethnic Japanese, and Malaysian citizens who are not ethnic malays does not negate the ethnic character of those countries.
progressoverpeace — with friends like you, why would Israel need enemies?
LOL. You work for the destruction of Israel and then use projection like it’s going out of style. You are really a piece of work.
The reason the Arab states haven’t given the Palestinians citizenship in their states is that the Palestinians have no loyalty or connection to those states.
Not quite, Einstein. First of all, those same arabs had more of a connection to the arab states they came from (most of them called themselves Syrians until they decided to use the “palestinian moniker” in the early 60′s) than any of them did to the US or Israel, which gave them citizenships in the millions, all told. Of course, most of the “pals” that came to the US were Christians who were being run out of town by the muslim arabs – as with Lebanon. But, the reason that no arab states gave the “pals” citizenship was because the arab league wanted to keep them as an issue to use against Israel – a task that you also serve quite well. But … you excuse arab states that don’t extend citizenship to families that have resided in their states for generations, but you try and force Israel to make citizens of mortal enemies. Do you really think that no one can see what you are trying to do?
Answer this question: if Israel is to hold on to the West Bank, what state should the non-Jews who LIVE in that territory belong to?
The same state they belonged to before Israel captured them in 1967. What state was that? Oh wait! There was no state there before ’67 because the arabs rejected the UN partition and Jordan just grabbed the West Bank as part of the arabs’ losing effort to kill all of the Jews.
Aggressive wars carry risks. The arabs have waged aggressive wars against Israel every ten years since the establishment of the state and they are only lucky that Israel has never done anything more than fight a defense. One day, Israel will get some brains and realize that wars are ended with the sort of actions that the allies took in WWII. That is what is needed to inform people that their wars of aggression carry very real risks to the states starting them and all within them.
Everyone knows which side you are on, Markus. Not only is your analysis of the situation pathetic, but your motivations are totally transparent. You are really the lowest of the low. But your type is nothing new. Judaism has long been aware of your kind. In the Haggadah, you are described by the Wicked Son.
38. “This does not, contrary to much nonsense on the subject, require expelling non-Jews or depriving them of legal rights, and in fact Israeli law recognizes their existence and rights…”
This is the case in Israel proper, but not in Judea and Samaria.
progressoverpeace: By implying that Palestinians who live in West Bank should be Jordanian citizens, does this mean you are willing to give Jordan CONTROL over the West Bank, including control over Al-Quds, home to quarter million Arabs.
My motivation? Unlike you, I support the right to national self-determination, provided that right does not involve the repression of other people’s rights. That is why I seek two states, west of the Jordan, one for Jews and the other for non-Jews. You seem to want to see Jews lording over other peoples as minorities, engendering further anti-Semitism. Or else you want to see them mimicking the behavior of the rulers that have forced Jews to leave various lands throughout their history.
progressoverpeace: By implying that Palestinians who live in West Bank should be Jordanian citizens, does this mean you are willing to give Jordan CONTROL over the West Bank, including control over Al-Quds, home to quarter million Arabs.
No. I’m saying that:
1) They existed without a state for 20 years and no one complained.
2) They should go to Jordan.
My motivation? Unlike you, I support the right to national self-determination,
Then you support ethnic transfers, as the UN has been big on ethnic transfers in order to bring about national self-determination. The arabs in the West Bank can go to Jordan and live in the “palestinian” state that is already established. Or, they can go to some other arab country that has been waging war on Israel, ostensibly for the “pals”.
provided that right does not involve the repression of other people’s rights.
Palestinian terror. They have proven themselves a threat that will not go away. The “pals” had many chances for a state, but they blew them all and worked very hard to prove what a threat they constitute to Israel. Mission accomplished.
That is why I seek two states, west of the Jordan, one for Jews and the other for non-Jews.
I really tire of this idiocy. You are talking about a three-state solution, since everyone with a brain knows that Gaza and the West Bank have almost nothing in common and hate each other. There would never be a single arab state comprising both of those areas (as your own idiotic call for “national self-determination” would proclaim the Gazans their “rights” before long, anyway). The situation between those areas will never be better than it is right now, with Fatah running the West Bank and Hamas running Gaza. Stop being so disingenuous about what you really want.
You seem to want to see Jews lording over other peoples as minorities, engendering further anti-Semitism. Or else you want to see them mimicking the behavior of the rulers that have forced Jews to leave various lands throughout their history.
I see Jews acting like people who fight for their right to exist and not accepting threats because Israel-haters like yourself want to see Jews slaughtered by the millions.
I’m willing to bet that you complained back when Israel temporarily ejected a little over 200 Hamas members but you probably had nothing to say about Kuwait kicking 400,000 “Palestinians” out at the same time. I’ll bet you don’t even know about the Kuwaiti ejections.
This raises self-hatred to the level of severe mental disease. There’s a reason for it, I’m sure, but there’s no real explanation. Let’s just all remember that there is no such thing as a western liberal, Jewish or otherwise, who doesn’t hate Israel. Or the US. Connect the dots.
Progress…They have proven themselves a threat that will not go away.
This reminds me of a certain little German man with an odd mustache who’s quite a hot topic in these spaces.
progressoverpeace,
So you would force non-Jews on the West Bank to move to the East Bank against their will? Even though Jordan, the sovereign country that controls the East Bank, does not WANT them there? And what about the Gazans, the ones who supposedly don’t want to have anything to do with the West Bank Arabs, where would you send them?
You sound like a Nazi, ordering millions of people to move to another area whose inhabitants don’t want them, utterly indifferent to the plight of these people, non-Jews who by the way have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO THE LAND UNDER DISPUTE as the Jews.
The thing is, even if you succeeded in your brutal goals, it would not result in greater security for the Jewish state. The millions of additional Arabs transferred against their will into Jordan would remain implacable enemies of Zionism. Isreal would become and remain a pariah nation. And people would still deface the Israeli flag with swastikas. Only difference as that now, post-”transfer”, they would for the FIRST TIME be doing this with some degree of justification.
I fail to understand how this would be better than for Israel to simply to pull out of West Bank and Gaza, and restore the ethnographic balance of Israel as a Jewish state by putting Arabs in charge of Arabs.
Markus, where did those 400,000 pals ejected from Kuwait go? Why doesn’t anyone say anything about them? But you did rail against Israel’s temporary ejection of the couple of hundred Hamas folks (who returned to Israel to particiapte in terror against Jews), didn’t you?
What about the 750,000 Jews who were forced out of arab states? What about them? You would forcibly remove Jews from the West Bank, now, if you could. Good guy, you are. Ethnic cleansing of Jews you find appropriate – even necessary.
No, you only think in one direction and that is how to harm Jews. You excuse everything and everyone else and ignore all threats to Israel. Don’t worry, when Israel is destroyed you’ll be able to generate some crocodile tears and claim how you are so sad …
Moho:
This reminds me of a certain little German man with an odd mustache who’s quite a hot topic in these spaces.
You mean the guy that the “pals” were aligned with in WWII? The guy who the Grand Mufti was a guest of during the war? That guy?
I watch the exchange between Markus and Progressoverpeace and find myself annoyed. Markus refuses to see the history behind ethnic transfers – which are long and the normal way mankind had done things – and Progressoverpeace fails to bring out the historicity in the issues. The result is that there is no real exchange of views here, just an exchange of names being called.
That is all useless. More to the point, there is no Arab involved in the conversation, and Arabs, like Arabs in Hevrón, for example, as well as Jews there, are the subject of this argument.
Let’s get some history out there, so folks know what is being talked about.
The Palestine Mandate was based in international law; the Resolutions on Palestine adopted in San Remo on 24-25 April 1920. Originally they were to be part of the Treaty of Sèvres, that was to determine the borders of Turkey and the land seized from it, but the Treaty of Sèvres was never adopted. But the Resolutions were adopted by the League of Nations in 1923. The territory called “Palestine” in the original resolutions included Jordan and parts of the Golan Heights. In addition, the Jewish People and its successor National Home was to be the sole sovereign over all the territory known as “Palestine”.
In 1922, however, the British severed the territory east of the Jordan River, placing an Arab administrator over it “temporarily” and closing off the territory to Jewish settlement. They had earlier agreed to the line near the Kinneret as the border between Syria-Lebanon and Palestine. Thus when the League finally formalized the territory, 78% of it had been broken off and was no longer open to Jewish settlement. This 78% was to become the Emirate of the Transjordan, and later, in 1946, the Kingdom of Transjordan. The “administrator”, later the emir, and finally the king, was Abdallah, the great-grandfather of the present king of Jordan.
If this was all that had to be explained that would be simple. The other point that needs to be made clear is that the British, charged with developing a Jewish State here, didn’t want to do so. They wanted an Arab state. So, they did everything they could to pervert the meaning of the Balfour Resolution, and the Charter of the Mandate. They closed off section after section of the Mandate to Jewish settlement on the flimsiest of excuses, and on the same evening that the Nazis were running their pogrom against Jews known as Kristallnacht, in November of 1938, they unveiled a White Paper that would allow a total of 75,000 Jews to enter the Mandate from 1939 through 1944, and then Jewish immigration would be closed off. There would be no Jewish State in the Land of Israel, only an Arab one – so the Brits thought.
During this same time period the British built up this Gazan pig, Amin el-Husseini, promoting him to be “Grand Mufti” in Jerusalem, and from this post he fomented riots and rebellion continually, trying to kill off Jews. The Massacre in Hevron was his handiwork. This Gazan pig ran off to Berlin to be with the fellow he really admired, Hitler, and upon hearing that Hitler was deporting Jews to the Mandate for execution begged that Hitler kill them instead in Europe – talk about Not In My Back Yard!! – thus it was that Auschwitz became not a slave labor camp but a center for the murder of Jews.
After the Germans were defeated, the British kept the doors of the Mandate closed to Jews – and Jewish terrorists determnined to drive the British out once and for all. They succeeded. But the British had their vengeance. In addition to turning every fortress over to Arabs in the Mandate, they trained the Arab Legion, the army of the Kingdom of Transjordan, and it invaded and defeated the IDF, retaining the Old City of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria until 1967.
I’m going to stop here and let Progressoverpeace carry on, and rub Markus’ nose in the history of the region.
pop,
There is a difference between the Palestinians ejected from Kuwait, who had been guests of Kuwaiti government and were being punished for Arafat’s support of Saadam Hussein; and the Palestinians of the West Bank, a conquered people being punished for their violent resistance against occupation, and because they happen to stationed on land that “god” gave to “moses”
I will agree that the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands –in response to the expulsion of Arabs from the new state of Israel — certainly was an injustice, especially since many of those Mizrahi Jews had no interest whatsoever in joining the Ashkenazi migration into Palestine and living as second class citizens in a Zionist state.
The difference between you and me is that you want to use such prior injustices against the Jews as an EXCUSE to perpetuate similar injustices against non-Jews, and I find such an effort to be odious, especially when a Jewish state can be secured without such cold-blooded actions.
Moho is back! Ha, ha
This guy is attracted to anything Jewish like the circling green flies to a heap of animal dung. Watch when he starts the RACIST mantra, the vulgar, crass slandering of other posters by calling them “idiots”, “dumb-asses”, etc. Unless one belongs to the “R:96,G:57,B:17″ skin tone one will be berated along with the “Pesky Jews” mercilessly while spitting foam from his drooling mouth.
He became an Antisemitic gadfly bashing every Israeli post yet cannot distancing himself from these posts.
The most sacred prayer in the daily Jewish praying – Shemona Esree – includes a single, unique part; this part is the only part that was added to the prayer after the destruction of the Second Temple and the Exile. This part is called “Birkat HaMinim” and is dedicated to those Jews who wish to harm and destroy their fellow Jews: “12.Known as Birkat HaMinim (“the sectarians, heretics”) this asks God to destroy those in heretical sects, who slander Jews and who act as informers against Jews” (from Wikipedia). So self-hating Jews who work hard to help and support the enemy is, unfortunately, nuthing new. What do you call an Israelis that take money from Saudia and use it to blacken Israel’s name around the world? What do you call an Israeli Jew who publishes the names of Israeli pilots and demands that international court will investigate them for “war crimes”? Or an Israeli proffesor who urge people to boyocote Israel? Traitors, that’s what. And that’s also the definition for this J Street creatures: traitors.
The existential threat to Israel from J street and Shalom Achshav is every bit as dangerous as the one from Hamas,Hezbollah and Iran. Both Arabs and Jews collaborate to destroy Israel, harm its (Jewish) citizens, legitimaze terrorist attacks on it and delegitimize its right to exist as a Jewish state. No wonser they take money fron rabid anti-semite Muslims (is there any other kind?). After all, their goals and beliefs are similar.
However, thank G-d, our survival does not depend on them and the Jewish traitors (including, sadly, a great many American Jews) will pay for their actions in the after life.
Ruvy, I’m not sure what the point is of your extremely selective “history.” Are you arguing that Jews have a right to the entire Mandate? Or the entire Mandate minus the 1922 boundaries of Transjordan? Or that Hitler was a better Zionist than Ramsay MacDonald?
The interesting thing is that myself and J Street share with you and Progressoverpeace the commitment to a Jewish state having as few non-Jewish citizens as possible. We only disagree where those boundaries should be. You and Progress want a state with large boundaries, ordained by a “G-d” that most Jews don’t even believe in, which would require millions of Arabs to be violently uprooted. I want a smaller state that would require little or no Arab uprooting. (And I would note that a smaller state corresponds to the reality that most Jews worldwide prefer to live in countries other than Israel.)
The only way I could be persuaded that your view is better is if you could show me that it would LESSEN Arab hostility toward the Jewish national state and its North American ally, rather than inflame it ten-fold. Somehow, though, I don’t think you really care what those Gazan pigs think of you, or of the Jewish people. You believe that being despised by goyim is inevitable, and the only question is whether or not you will be victims.
Markus,
My history was selective for two reasons. I did not intend to type an entire book here (I like getting paid for that amount of work), and what I typed was designed to get enough history out for the two of you to chew on – particularly you.
I suggest you look at Rebecca’s comment carefully – especially if you are a Jew. The question is not what you think (or don’t think) of G-d. The question is what He thinks of you. Whether you believe or not is irrelevant. If you act against the Jewish people, or to be more precise, the Children of Israel, in dividing the land and handing it over to foreigners to rule, you will be judged severely. It is not your land to do with as you wish. It is His.
Further, as for me, I did not suggest expelling Arabs from the country, though I did imply the possibility as a norm in the way history operates. At the moment, I do not believe a program of expulsions – either of Arabs or Jews – will succeed. If peace can be made without such expulsions, then I will pursue it, with or without the authority of the thieves on Government Hill in Jerusalem.
As to your last paragraph, the real question is not what America thinks, but what we do. If we bow to the dark prince of the setting sun, Obama, we are doomed. Netanyahu is taking the country on that path. If you seriously think the warlords we have empowered to rule over the Arabs will make any kind of peace with us – el-FataH and Hamas – you are seriously deluded. Peace with them is out of the question. But peace with my Arab neighbors is always a possibility.
And now I must leave you to catch a bus to J-lem to do Shabbat shopping. They don’t run that often out here.
Good day,
Ruvy
Markus, UN Resolution 242 refutes your assertion.
“….The interesting thing is that myself and J Street share with you and Progressoverpeace the commitment to a Jewish state having as few non-Jewish citizens as possible. We only disagree where those boundaries should be. You and Progress want a state with large boundaries, ordained by a “G-d” that most Jews don’t even believe in, which would require millions of Arabs to be violently uprooted. I want a smaller state that would require little or no Arab uprooting…..”
So what determines the borders you want? I think the UN is for shit, but in deference to those who still look to it for any authority in “international law,” UN 242 says that the final borders are to be decided through negotiations and Israel has the right to secure defensible borders. So far there has been no one to negotiate with who both has the authority to, and who is willing to state in Arabic that Israel has the right to exist at all. And the 67 borders are not defensible, especially since Hamas is an arm of Iran. So far I see no solution. If the WB continues to thrive perhaps its people will demand a peaceful lawful govt which could negotiate in good faith – we’ll see.
I dismiss out of hand any solution which sets the borders by fiat. The larger borders WERE set by secular temporal bodies after WWII, regardless whether anyone thinks they coincide with those “ordained by God.” I am curious what you base yours on – the 67 war? Why?
“The interesting thing is that myself and J Street share with you and Progressoverpeace the commitment to a Jewish state having as few non-Jewish citizens as possible”
Just eliminate “non” from the above sentence and “markus” would be telling the truth for a change. He has proven over and over again in these that he is a sweaty, fanatic, compulsive antisemite. He compares Israel to Nazi Germany. He is a liar, fraud and ignoramus.