Comments on: It’s the Economy, Stupid – And the GOP Hasn’t a Clue http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/ Thu, 16 Feb 2012 02:44:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Smokey http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22049 Smokey Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:29:19 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22049 Mr Layman, I agree with most of your post. But two things about the Fair Tax really bother me: what, exactly, would stop Congress from raising your 30% sales tax to 31% a couple of years down the road? Then to 32%, 34%, 40%? Just like they do with postage rates? And: what would a 30%+ sales tax do to our consumer-fueled economy? Because I remember the economy in the 1970's and 1980's. Unemployment approached 10% - for years at a time. Inflation was running in double-digits. Interest rates were astronomical: the GI Bill for home purchases was 17 1/2%. A home purchase with an FHA loan was at an 18 1/2% interest rate. Stagflation bogged down the entire economy. Stories in the media routinely reported such items as Ph.D's picking ferns for florists in Oregon, and driving cabs in NYC. The economy could hardly be any better than it is today. Home loans are under 6%. Unemployment at about 5%. Inflation is extremely low by historical standards. About 99.9% of the hand-wringing comes directly from the media, who use their propaganda organs to constantly tell Americans how bad things are. They have an agenda. But the economy is, in fact, in excellent shape. Some of us have lived through a crappy economy; we know when we're being lied to. Mr Layman, I agree with most of your post. But two things about the Fair Tax really bother me: what, exactly, would stop Congress from raising your 30% sales tax to 31% a couple of years down the road? Then to 32%, 34%, 40%? Just like they do with postage rates?

And: what would a 30%+ sales tax do to our consumer-fueled economy?

Because I remember the economy in the 1970′s and 1980′s. Unemployment approached 10% – for years at a time. Inflation was running in double-digits. Interest rates were astronomical: the GI Bill for home purchases was 17 1/2%. A home purchase with an FHA loan was at an 18 1/2% interest rate. Stagflation bogged down the entire economy. Stories in the media routinely reported such items as Ph.D’s picking ferns for florists in Oregon, and driving cabs in NYC.

The economy could hardly be any better than it is today. Home loans are under 6%. Unemployment at about 5%. Inflation is extremely low by historical standards.

About 99.9% of the hand-wringing comes directly from the media, who use their propaganda organs to constantly tell Americans how bad things are. They have an agenda.

But the economy is, in fact, in excellent shape. Some of us have lived through a crappy economy; we know when we’re being lied to.

]]> By: Richard Layman http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22048 Richard Layman Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:39:15 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22048 Fiscal Folly? The progressive federal income tax was an good idea about ninety years ago, but is it still serving us well in a global economy? Right now, all taxes on wage earners and investors in America must be passed on to consumers of American goods and services. That is where the money comes from to run our country. Where the money comes from might just be more important than who pays the taxes. If a job is out-sourced our government does not benefit with income taxes or with funds going into Social Security. Imported items have the taxes of the truck drivers and store clerks built into their prices, but no American taxes from the workers that produced the items. There is enough money out there to save Social Security, Medicare and provide a multitude of social services, but it is in the wrong places. Businesses that are not labor intensive generate little tax revenue. Yet they create huge profits and can pay enormous salaries. Movies, TV, sports, software, CD's and drugs are all in this category. Consider Bill Gates. He has much of his software written in India and has a machine put it on a disk and so far little has gone into American taxes or Social Security. American businesses would be much more competitive worldwide if they did not have to include the expenses of their workers' taxes, Social Security and healthcare in their prices. There is a bill, (Fair Tax) currently cosponsored by about sixty congressmen, that contains ideas that should interest both liberals and conservatives. These ideas could remedy many of our nation's problems. The bill is touted as a progressive sales tax and would eliminate the IRS and other taxes including Social Security taxes. It is progressive in that every person or family unit receives a monthly check to cover all taxes up to the poverty level. So only nonessentials are taxed. These ideas deserve serious consideration. The bill, as presently written, has some major flaws. A 30% sales tax would force sellers to lower their prices to attract buyers. This would be somewhat offset by lower labor costs and taxes. Imported goods would be taxed as well as our own and income would be derived from products produced by outsourced jobs The American government would become a partner in every business. All industries would then start contributing their share of the costs of our infrastructure, from which they benefit and owe their existence. Even thieves, prostitutes and undocumented workers and visitors to the US would now contribute. Our government would get its funds off the top and there would be less money available to pay outlandish salaries to athletes, rock stars and CEO's, who can hire CPA's and tax lawyers to exploit loopholes. Social Security and Medicare would be saved and maybe even health care could be funded. An added benefit would be the elimination of the IRS. Imagine, no more tax forms. The tens of thousands of regulations and IRS audits would be no more. Think about the hours and dollars that are now wasted. Our lives would be so much simpler. Early in our nations history states were not allowed to put tariffs on goods produced in another state. So all could enjoy the benefits of free trade. Most states then wisely resorted to sales taxes to receive benefit from the sale of goods purchased in their state. Perhaps it is time, in a global economy, for our nation to do the same. In our present economic circumstances we should consider these ideas that increase funding from imported items, outsourced jobs and non-labor intensive industries. They may enable us to fund our entitlement programs and needed infrastructure improvements, while enjoying life without the IRS. Does it make any sense at all to tax our own products and not tax things produced elsewhere? Ralph R. Layman Sr. 6205 Mineral Point Road Madison, WI 53705 Heritage511@yahoo.com Fiscal Folly?

The progressive federal income tax was an good idea about ninety years ago, but is it still serving us well in a global economy? Right now, all taxes on wage earners and investors in America must be passed on to consumers of American goods and services. That is where the money comes from to run our country. Where the money comes from might just be more important than who pays the taxes.

If a job is out-sourced our government does not benefit with income taxes or with funds going into Social Security. Imported items have the taxes of the truck drivers and store clerks built into their prices, but no American taxes from the workers that produced the items.

There is enough money out there to save Social Security, Medicare and provide a multitude of social services, but it is in the wrong places.
Businesses that are not labor intensive generate little tax revenue. Yet they create huge profits and can pay enormous salaries. Movies, TV, sports, software, CD’s and drugs are all in this category. Consider Bill Gates. He has much of his software written in India and has a machine put it on a disk and so far little has gone into American taxes or Social Security.

American businesses would be much more competitive worldwide if they did not have to include the expenses of their workers’ taxes, Social Security and healthcare in their prices.

There is a bill, (Fair Tax) currently cosponsored by about sixty congressmen, that contains ideas that should interest both liberals and conservatives. These ideas could remedy many of our nation’s problems. The bill is touted as a progressive sales tax and would eliminate the IRS and other taxes including Social Security taxes. It is progressive in that every person or family unit receives a monthly check to cover all taxes up to the poverty level. So only nonessentials are taxed. These ideas deserve serious consideration. The bill, as presently written, has some major flaws.

A 30% sales tax would force sellers to lower their prices to attract buyers. This would be somewhat offset by lower labor costs and taxes. Imported goods would be taxed as well as our own and income would be derived from products produced by outsourced jobs

The American government would become a partner in every business.
All industries would then start contributing their share of the costs of our infrastructure, from which they benefit and owe their existence. Even thieves, prostitutes and undocumented workers and visitors to the US would now contribute.

Our government would get its funds off the top and there would be less money available to pay outlandish salaries to athletes, rock stars and CEO’s, who can hire CPA’s and tax lawyers to exploit loopholes. Social Security and Medicare would be saved and maybe even health care could be funded.

An added benefit would be the elimination of the IRS. Imagine, no more tax forms. The tens of thousands of regulations and IRS audits would be no more. Think about the hours and dollars that are now wasted. Our lives would be so much simpler.

Early in our nations history states were not allowed to put tariffs on goods produced in another state. So all could enjoy the benefits of free trade. Most states then wisely resorted to sales taxes to receive benefit from the sale of goods purchased in their state. Perhaps it is time, in a global economy, for our nation to do the same.

In our present economic circumstances we should consider these ideas that increase funding from imported items, outsourced jobs and non-labor intensive industries. They may enable us to fund our entitlement programs and needed infrastructure improvements, while enjoying life without the IRS. Does it make any sense at all to tax our own products and not tax things produced elsewhere?

Ralph R. Layman Sr.
6205 Mineral Point Road
Madison, WI 53705
Heritage511@yahoo.com

]]> By: Richard Layman http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22047 Richard Layman Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:48:42 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22047 Fiscal Folly? The progressive federal income tax was an good idea about ninety years ago, but is it still serving us well in a global economy? Right now, all taxes on wage earners and investors in America must be passed on to consumers of American goods and services. That is where the money comes from to run our country. Where the money comes from might just be more important than who pays the taxes. If a job is out-sourced our government does not benefit with income taxes or with funds going into Social Security. Imported items have the taxes of the truck drivers and store clerks built into their prices, but no American taxes from the workers that produced the items. There is enough money out there to save Social Security, Medicare and provide a multitude of social services, but it is in the wrong places. Businesses that are not labor intensive generate little tax revenue. Yet they create huge profits and can pay enormous salaries. Movies, TV, sports, software, CD's and drugs are all in this category. Consider Bill Gates. He has much of his software written in India and has a machine put it on a disk and so far little has gone into American taxes or Social Security. American businesses would be much more competitive worldwide if they did not have to include the expenses of their workers' taxes, Social Security and healthcare in their prices. There is a bill, (Fair Tax) currently cosponsored by about sixty congressmen, that contains ideas that should interest both liberals and conservatives. These ideas could remedy many of our nation's problems. The bill is touted as a progressive sales tax and would eliminate the IRS and other taxes including Social Security taxes. It is progressive in that every person or family unit receives a monthly check to cover all taxes up to the poverty level. So only nonessentials are taxed. These ideas deserve serious consideration. The bill, as presently written, has some major flaws. A 30% sales tax would force sellers to lower their prices to attract buyers. This would be somewhat offset by lower labor costs and taxes. Imported goods would be taxed as well as our own and income would be derived from products produced by outsourced jobs The American government would become a partner in every business. All industries would then start contributing their share of the costs of our infrastructure, from which they benefit and owe their existence. Even thieves, prostitutes and undocumented workers and visitors to the US would now contribute. Our government would get its funds off the top and there would be less money available to pay outlandish salaries to athletes, rock stars and CEO's, who can hire CPA's and tax lawyers to exploit loopholes. Social Security and Medicare would be saved and maybe even health care could be funded. An added benefit would be the elimination of the IRS. Imagine, no more tax forms. The tens of thousands of regulations and IRS audits would be no more. Think about the hours and dollars that are now wasted. Our lives would be so much simpler. Early in our nations history states were not allowed to put tariffs on goods produced in another state. So all could enjoy the benefits of free trade. Most states then wisely resorted to sales taxes to receive benefit from the sale of goods purchased in their state. Perhaps it is time, in a global economy, for our nation to do the same. In our present economic circumstances we should consider these ideas that increase funding from imported items, outsourced jobs and non-labor intensive industries. They may enable us to fund our entitlement programs and needed infrastructure improvements, while enjoying life without the IRS. Does it make any sense at all to tax our own products and not tax things produced elsewhere? Ralph R. Layman Sr. 6205 Mineral Point Road Madison, WI 53705 Heritage511@yahoo.com Fiscal Folly?

The progressive federal income tax was an good idea about ninety years ago, but is it still serving us well in a global economy? Right now, all taxes on wage earners and investors in America must be passed on to consumers of American goods and services. That is where the money comes from to run our country. Where the money comes from might just be more important than who pays the taxes.

If a job is out-sourced our government does not benefit with income taxes or with funds going into Social Security. Imported items have the taxes of the truck drivers and store clerks built into their prices, but no American taxes from the workers that produced the items.

There is enough money out there to save Social Security, Medicare and provide a multitude of social services, but it is in the wrong places.
Businesses that are not labor intensive generate little tax revenue. Yet they create huge profits and can pay enormous salaries. Movies, TV, sports, software, CD’s and drugs are all in this category. Consider Bill Gates. He has much of his software written in India and has a machine put it on a disk and so far little has gone into American taxes or Social Security.

American businesses would be much more competitive worldwide if they did not have to include the expenses of their workers’ taxes, Social Security and healthcare in their prices.

There is a bill, (Fair Tax) currently cosponsored by about sixty congressmen, that contains ideas that should interest both liberals and conservatives. These ideas could remedy many of our nation’s problems. The bill is touted as a progressive sales tax and would eliminate the IRS and other taxes including Social Security taxes. It is progressive in that every person or family unit receives a monthly check to cover all taxes up to the poverty level. So only nonessentials are taxed. These ideas deserve serious consideration. The bill, as presently written, has some major flaws.

A 30% sales tax would force sellers to lower their prices to attract buyers. This would be somewhat offset by lower labor costs and taxes. Imported goods would be taxed as well as our own and income would be derived from products produced by outsourced jobs

The American government would become a partner in every business.
All industries would then start contributing their share of the costs of our infrastructure, from which they benefit and owe their existence. Even thieves, prostitutes and undocumented workers and visitors to the US would now contribute.

Our government would get its funds off the top and there would be less money available to pay outlandish salaries to athletes, rock stars and CEO’s, who can hire CPA’s and tax lawyers to exploit loopholes. Social Security and Medicare would be saved and maybe even health care could be funded.

An added benefit would be the elimination of the IRS. Imagine, no more tax forms. The tens of thousands of regulations and IRS audits would be no more. Think about the hours and dollars that are now wasted. Our lives would be so much simpler.

Early in our nations history states were not allowed to put tariffs on goods produced in another state. So all could enjoy the benefits of free trade. Most states then wisely resorted to sales taxes to receive benefit from the sale of goods purchased in their state. Perhaps it is time, in a global economy, for our nation to do the same.

In our present economic circumstances we should consider these ideas that increase funding from imported items, outsourced jobs and non-labor intensive industries. They may enable us to fund our entitlement programs and needed infrastructure improvements, while enjoying life without the IRS. Does it make any sense at all to tax our own products and not tax things produced elsewhere?

Ralph R. Layman Sr.
6205 Mineral Point Road
Madison, WI 53705
Heritage511@yahoo.com

]]> By: Kevin http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22046 Kevin Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:25:54 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22046 If people think the economy is in the crapper now, or rapidly going down the drain, wait. The Dems' idea of economic stimulus definitely will stimulate the economy right into the can. The best thing the government can do is when the Fed adjusts their rates, up or down. Outside of that, everything else is basically window dressing as far as rebates go. The best thing that Congress and any President can do is to stand aside, don't pass idiotic stimulus packages and let the cycle run its course. If people think the economy is in the crapper now, or rapidly going down the drain, wait. The Dems’ idea of economic stimulus definitely will stimulate the economy right into the can. The best thing the government can do is when the Fed adjusts their rates, up or down. Outside of that, everything else is basically window dressing as far as rebates go. The best thing that Congress and any President can do is to stand aside, don’t pass idiotic stimulus packages and let the cycle run its course.

]]> By: Josh http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22045 Josh Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:58:54 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22045 I'm most certainly not an economic expert. I don't understand most of the economic language but I wasn't born yesterday either. About the housing crisis I know one or two things. "A fool and his money are soon parted," and greed and stupidity is a bad combination. Both apply here. I bought a house during the "boom". Lenders were trying to throw $300,000 at me at 1% interest. (Greed) I didn't buy into their hyped salesmen's "great opportunity" lie. Even with my limited knowledge of banking I was able to read and understand the contract. Millions bought into it and got screwed claiming now that they didn't understand the contract. (stupidity) I took a 30 year fixed at 5.5% and now I look like a genius. (no fool and money and house not departed) I know this is just one factor but I don't think the GOP had anything to do with it. Spoiled, ignorant Americans buying way beyond their means caused it. I’m most certainly not an economic expert. I don’t understand most of the economic language but I wasn’t born yesterday either. About the housing crisis I know one or two things. “A fool and his money are soon parted,” and greed and stupidity is a bad combination. Both apply here. I bought a house during the “boom”. Lenders were trying to throw $300,000 at me at 1% interest. (Greed) I didn’t buy into their hyped salesmen’s “great opportunity” lie. Even with my limited knowledge of banking I was able to read and understand the contract. Millions bought into it and got screwed claiming now that they didn’t understand the contract. (stupidity) I took a 30 year fixed at 5.5% and now I look like a genius. (no fool and money and house not departed) I know this is just one factor but I don’t think the GOP had anything to do with it. Spoiled, ignorant Americans buying way beyond their means caused it.

]]> By: olddeadmeat http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22044 olddeadmeat Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:43:23 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22044 OmegaPaladin: I am a struggling small business owner. The recession is coming whether I want it or not, and it could very possibly put me under. It's not my "favored" recession. It's pretty bloody obvious to anyone who takes the time to look at the data and look at the behavior of all the players. The MSM is pretty much clueless/useless. Ex: they print NAR press releases as if they were news . Almost every month last year they were telling us the housing market hit bottom and next month the market will pick up. Just how many bottoms does a crash have? Banks are desperately hoarding cash. Fund managers are predicting more huge losses in the financial sector. Consumers are using gift cards to buy food and diapers. An entire business model (wholesale mortgage lenders) has pretty much died. And Bernanke didn't drop rates 1 1/4 points in less than a month because things are peachy. OmegaPaladin:

I am a struggling small business owner. The recession is coming whether I want it or not, and it could very possibly put me under.

It’s not my “favored” recession.

It’s pretty bloody obvious to anyone who takes the time to look at the data and look at the behavior of all the players. The MSM is pretty much clueless/useless. Ex: they print NAR press releases as if they were news . Almost every month last year they were telling us the housing market hit bottom and next month the market will pick up. Just how many bottoms does a crash have?

Banks are desperately hoarding cash. Fund managers are predicting more huge losses in the financial sector. Consumers are using gift cards to buy food and diapers. An entire business model (wholesale mortgage lenders) has pretty much died.

And Bernanke didn’t drop rates 1 1/4 points in less than a month because things are peachy.

]]> By: OmegaPaladin http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22043 OmegaPaladin Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:24:13 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22043 olddeadmeat, Are you willing to lose your job if your favored recession occurs? olddeadmeat,

Are you willing to lose your job if your favored recession occurs?

]]> By: olddeadmeat http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22042 olddeadmeat Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:36:16 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22042 I suggest you start by reading the various blogs on the economy. A good place to find the links is at ml-implode.com - links on the lower right. Start with the Big Picture blog, then Calculated Risk and take your pick of the rest. Several are run by guys who spend all their time thinking about the economy and investing. Some run investment funds, some are just journalists or private investors. Short answer - it's a mix of the S&L crisis and Enron, but the people playing games were the big banks and the private rating agencies. They took risky mortgages, sliced them up and resold them as AAA investments - stuff as reliable as gov't treasuries and the best municipal debt. Since they made money selling the debt and didn't keep the risks associated with the loan, they would take any loan, no matter how stupid. Like say, $500K option-ARM mortgages for 2 bedroom shacks borrowed by assistant managers at McDonald'. Now, home prices are going down, it's a national margin call, and the banks literally don't have enough cash to cover their losses. So credit is becoming ever tougher to get. Here's the cure: Let the recession happen. Prices have to fall to correct levels. Some banks need to fail. Capitalism needs risks as well as rewards to work. And balance the budget, pretty soon, it's going to be very hard to borrow any money from anyone. I suggest you start by reading the various blogs on the economy.

A good place to find the links is at ml-implode.com – links on the lower right.

Start with the Big Picture blog, then Calculated Risk and take your pick of the rest. Several are run by guys who spend all their time thinking about the economy and investing. Some run investment funds, some are just journalists or private investors.

Short answer – it’s a mix of the S&L crisis and Enron, but the people playing games were the big banks and the private rating agencies. They took risky mortgages, sliced them up and resold them as AAA investments – stuff as reliable as gov’t treasuries and the best municipal debt.

Since they made money selling the debt and didn’t keep the risks associated with the loan, they would take any loan, no matter how stupid.

Like say, $500K option-ARM mortgages for 2 bedroom shacks borrowed by assistant managers at McDonald’.

Now, home prices are going down, it’s a national margin call, and the banks literally don’t have enough cash to cover their losses.

So credit is becoming ever tougher to get.

Here’s the cure:

Let the recession happen. Prices have to fall to correct levels. Some banks need to fail. Capitalism needs risks as well as rewards to work.

And balance the budget, pretty soon, it’s going to be very hard to borrow any money from anyone.

]]> By: Gabriel http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22041 Gabriel Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:33:49 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22041 Lets face it, the looters and moochers appear to have won the day. The GOP doesn't have a John Galt to champion them, nor will they ever given their own leftward tilt and feeding at the trough of socialist big government programs. A dark ages for this country approaches. My big question is, where can I move to? Lets face it, the looters and moochers appear to have won the day. The GOP doesn’t have a John Galt to champion them, nor will they ever given their own leftward tilt and feeding at the trough of socialist big government programs.

A dark ages for this country approaches. My big question is, where can I move to?

]]> By: mishu http://pjmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22040 mishu Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:46:57 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/its-the-economy-stupid-and-the-gop-hasnt-a-clue/#comment-22040 About the same or more Sparky. About the same or more Sparky.

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