It’s Complicated: A Fantasy for Aging Feminists
If this movie is to be believed, all cosmetic companies should immediately start specializing in age-revealing makeup, plastic surgeons should figure out how to add wrinkles, and personal trainers should work on sculpting their clients into pear shapes. But since the movie, written and directed by Nancy Meyers (whose recent films Something’s Gotta Give and The Holiday look like The Godfather and Citizen Kane next to this one), has no ambitions other than to be a yuletide treat, the absurdity of its situations could be forgiven — if there were anything driving the plot forward and if the comedy were actually funny.
For most of the movie, though, the only plot is Jane having indulgent, five-star-hotel sex with Jake and rushing around to various listeners (her friends, her shrink) asking them whether it’s okay. (Their verdict: Sure!) When the delicate matter of whether breaking up a marriage is suddenly more acceptable when the third party is creaky rather than dewy — “I’m now the other woman,” Janie tells her pals. “I’m the one we hate” — the verdict is: Don’t think about that too much. Just go with it.
As for the jokes, though Streep laughs constantly, almost maniacally, throughout, Meyers can’t think of anything funny for her to say or react to. She simply begins scenes with Streep in full merriment, as though someone has said something impossibly witty. At other times, Streep and one of her dates are seen giggling from a distance as Meyers ramps up the soundtrack music to cover up what they’re saying. The best Meyers can do to manufacture cuteness is order Martin and Streep to play with pastry dough. Looky! Streep made a little pretend-chin beard out of her dough! For a movie aimed at the grandma demographic, It’s Complicated is infantile.
I get your overall point, but Meryl Streep does look great for her age and I imagine a lot of younger men would be interested in her nowadays. As for most men…well, they don’t age so gracefully either.
Thanks for the warning.
“Dear AARP Forum, I’d never thought I’d write… “
Thanks for the heads up. Chick flicks aren’t really my cup of tea, but I like a good romantic movie with good acting (My wife laughs at me over movies like “Sleepless in Seattle” or “Four Weddings and a Funeral” but both hold their messages well- true love is to be respected and pursued.)
The problem with the feminist movement is the women in it forgot that the true romantics in our species are the men. Yes, I know my wife gives me the same look. But you have to remember that women are more mercenary in their view of relationships. Very few women don’t add to the equation when looking for a mate, “He would be a good husband, father, provider.” How many of your buddies, when falling in love with a woman sit down and mentally calculate how much money she might make over her lifetime, what kind of house he can buy if he marries her, or any other things along that line? Seriously?
I learned this ugly secret back in the eighties when I supervised young female bank tellers and became part of the gossip club. They forgot I was a guy and acted naturally around me, think Gorillas in the mist if you will. It didn’t take long for me to see the rating system in effect, the goal making, and the somewhat mercenary approach to dating. As they girls got older their focus sharpened. Young girls love blindly, older women love strategically. It was somewhat unnerving yet fascinating as I watched men fall like dominoes to women who “eyed” them.
Some men, ones that got past the whole physical thing, fell in love without really being able to explain why. Most that I knew lost their minds, refusing to see the faults or weakness of the women they loved. Even I succumbed once to that feeling. It didn’t work out, she liked doctors.
No, when I see movies like the one you describe, I tend to wince. No thanks. I’ll stay on this side of the looking glass.
Boy, are you gonna catch it now!
Thanks, though. Good review.
What splendid comments! Sounds like another fairytale for the female baby boomer senior set many of whom still think they’re “hot” when they’re not. Many older women who escaped the folly and fraud of the feminist propaganda used to pass along this wisdom: when a man gets to a certain age the only thing he is looking for in a woman of a certain age is a nurse or a purse. Personal observations find that to be mostly true. Some women just can’t accept the fact that they have different roles and different lives when they grow older. They think with plastic surgery and may other treatments they can forestall the ravages of time. They can but that only makes them attractive at an older an, not the sex kittens they hope to be well into their sixties. The whole idea is so grotesque. Our children have a lot of problems today because they are so many adults who won’t grow up. That includes the men as well. If you are in the mood, I would love to read your opinion about that other farce “Sex and the City” which is due to come out with a sequal. Apart from the fact that one of the “girls” looks like Mr. Ed in bizarro fashion and another in in her FIFTIES, the whole idea of it and its distorted reality fits right in with the times.
By chance, a review of “Complicated” appeared in our local fishwrap on the same page as a review of “Nine.” The latter review commented on its protagonist that “To be out of control of your emotional and sex life at 50–to be lying and sneaking around–is neither cool or interesting. It makes a man pathetic.” That’s part of what’s wrong with “It’s Complicated” and Nancy Meyers’s other chick flicks like “Something’s Gotta Give” and “What Women Want”.
When a middle-aged man in public life like Woody Allen or Bill Clinton or Jim Bakker is exposed as having an affair with a much younger woman, other men do not admire him for it. No “You go, guy!” To the contrary, he becomes the butt of their jokes. Apparently, the “Feminists in the audience” Boot refers to haven’t noticed that.
Women have been protected only by the traditional teachings of the traditional Judeo-Christian religions. All other religious and secular feminist philosophies do next to nothing in forbidding a man from leaving them for a younger female. The Playboy philosophy of Hugh Hefner has become the norm. He literally sleeps with women far younger than his own 58-year-old daughter, Christie! Secularly inclined women like Nancy Meyers have no idea how to address the issue. They long ago opted for serial monogamous relationships—not realizing that women especially over 40 would inevitably pay an awful price.
Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins are separating in real life. He is much younger than she. Does anyone doubt for a moment that the new woman in his life is significantly younger than the 63-year-old Sarandon? I have no idea who she is—but I bet the lady is not a day over 35.
You’re right – it’s a big fat fantasy for and about the actors. It’s not entertainment for others. I think Streep is reliving her imagined youth – remember her fraught performance in Mama Mia? Maybe someone should have told these feminists that promiscuity in youth is likely to mean emptiness in age.
This movie just came out of President Obama’s vomit. Welcome to ObamaLand.
promiscuity in youth is likely to mean emptiness in age.
———————-
Fidelity in youth is no guarantee. I’m guessing Susan Sarandon was faithful to Tim Robbins for 23 years, and now what? Elin Woods and Jenny Sanford may also be mateless in their old age. If Kathy Lee Gifford hadn’t been willing to suck it up, she’d also grow old single.
I wrote about Daphne Merkin’s NYT profile of Nancy Meyers here: http://clarespark.com/2009/12/23/she-who-gets-slapped-the-magic-of-middle-aged-boomerdom/. It sees he second-wave of feminism as partly committed to “role-reversal”, a class bound and ultimately ineffectual approach to the deplorable situation of women. And as others have noted above, even the wealthy ones live in dread of their husbands leaving them for a younger woman.
So we have a choice between male fantasy embodied in George Clooney doing his king-of-the-world Cary Grant imitation, and female fantasy with Meryl Streep acting ditzy and funny. I’m female. I’ll watch Meryl before I spend another dime on Clooney (or Sean Penn or Tim Robbins or Woody Harrelson).
Really, I don’t know how this is any worse than all those 1940′s movies (now considered to be classics) with Joan Crawford wearing designer dresses to her shop-girl job, or Cary Grant dressed as a female soldier wearing a horse’s tail wig. Sometimes men just need to get down off their pompous stool and let the rest of us giggle and enjoy, even if they’re too superior to get the joke.
Is there anything more pathetic than competing with the young in youngworld as one ages? And in any case, why? Why bother getting back into the frantic angst filled sex whirl? But of course the main thing is not to be old. The spirit of the age ordains that one stay in the whirling dervish dance till you’re bopped in the head by a stroke and carried out of the game just as stupid as you were when you entered it.
Mr. Boot:
“He delivers that line after a ride of such apparent non-craziness that next to him Streep appears to be fully dressed, with only one shoulder of her dress taken down. Baldwin isn’t even Streep’s age; he’s nine years younger.”
Gee, thanks pal!
What did I ever do to you to merit you putting the mental image of two 60-year-olds getting their freak on in my coconut, and on Christmas Day, no less!
““That was one crazy ride. I thought we were gonna break the bed.” ”
Break her hip and slip his disc, more likely…will someone call and have an ambulance on standby for these two geezer co-eds?
Clare Spark, if even wealthy women live in dread of their husbands leaving them for a younger woman, then why does the protagonist Jane in this movie act so attracted to an ex-husband who did exactly that? Is she out for revenge against the Thirtysomething he dumped her for?
Or, if there is any romantic message at all in this potboiler movie, is it that the way to a woman’s heart is to be an exciting cad like Jake instead of a sweet decent guy like the one portrayed here by Steve Martin (who played the title role in “The Lonely Guy”)?
I watched the trailer for this and saw the other woman coming down the patio stairs. Wow! I’m sure Meryl Streeps character was a nice person, but Wow! This movie really is a fantasy.
This movie sounds like it is aimed at the boomers, now in their 60s, telling them it is ok to STILL not grow up!
Tho, I understand that in our local old age home for those no longer capable of looking after themselves, their love lives are sort of like high school all over again. And interestingly, from Mark Steyn’s point of view, most of the ‘caregivers’ are Filipinos…
I won’t spend a dime on Clooney OR Streep. Can’t stand either of them and won’t fund lefty narcissists.
I’m an aging former feminist, now a boomer who is conservative and married. I did love “Something’s Gotta Give” and I normally eschew chick flicks. Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson were aging hipsters playing their ages and quite endearing. The acting was good and the script and dialogue witty. It was well-done fantasy. There is zero appealing about anyone in “It’s Complicated” and there’s no evidence of wit or good acting/writing.
I predict a bomb. Hollywood has pretty much lost all sense of humor and charm and narcissism does not carry a movie. And so many of the actors are on our boycott lists these days…
Jack Olson, you raise an interesting point. As Daphne Merkin pointed out in her NYT piece on Nancy Meyers (the subject of my blog) the movie is escapist, but Merkinseems to be ambivalent about the value of fantasy, or maybe her editor red-pencilled her real feelings. We are not talking about a great novel here, but a silly Hollywood movie that should bring women out of hiding and back into the streets, or at least they should speak up. But most women are too scared. And there is a lot of masochism out there, given power relations between the sexes, hence the attraction to bad boys. The second wave of feminism elevated some women, but accepted tokenism and segregation in the academy into Women’s Studies Departments. Do read my blogs.
Arhooley –
What you MEAN is that even a hot woman who marries the A-Hole Alpha Male Big Man can get cheated on. Fixed that for you.
What? Elin Nordgren Married Tiger Woods precisely BECAUSE he was a womanizing bastich. That’s why she was attracted to him and married him. Same with Silda Spitzer, Hillary Clinton, Sanford’s wife, Newsome’s ex-wife (a Fox News commentator IIRC), Villaraigosa’s ex-wife, and so on.
Women LOVE the A-hole womanizing bad boys, and always figure their “magic” special snowflake sex appeal will “tame” them. Nordgren could have married a perfectly acceptable top lawyer, doctor, or business executive, but he would not have been Tiger Woods, famous superstar Alpha Male.
Women know damn well the character of men they consider. Character just is not as important as power/status/dominance/excitement/sexiness. It is part of the fantasy of a woman being young, beautiful, and desired forever.
There. Fixed that for you.
[Side note: if Sandra Tsing Loh, or Christina Nehring, or the many "happily married, dreaming of divorce" columnists are any measure, most middle-upper class women would happily trade their boring, "beta provider husbands" for chaotic, passionate affairs, even if it is bad for their kids. Lifecycle: teen girl chases bad boys, through High School, College, and in her twenties. Appropriate to class/socio-economic status. Marries (in desperation as she is no longer young and pretty enough for bad boy Alpha Males as she's aged) around age 32-35 to a "boring" beta provider who she really despises (for being "nice" and therefore placating and supplicating to her -- women find that disgusting and the mark of an inferior man). Kids and then boredom, resentment, and divorce as she takes "last chance" to chase Alphas. Tsing-Loh's Atlantic article on how her friends resent their "kitchen b*tch husbands" who are viewed as un-masculine, supplicating, "nice" by doing most of the cooking is pretty revealing.]
Shows just what fatuous idiots Boomer feminists are.
Here is a hint: Young men are not interested in older women, particularly those over 40. Period.
Another one: Young women are not particularly interested in men over 50, unless they have lots of money or power, which is to say that they are mostly interested in the money and power and not the man. Period.
And other one: Men have no interest at all in their women having power at all. None whatsoever. We are not women. It does not turn us on. It turns us off. Period. There may be a few 20-something wimps, brainwashed by the Academy and the PC hordes, that may insist otherwise, but they have not the fainest idea what they are talking about. If they have an atom of manhood in them they will get over it soon enough. Men do not mind if women have money so long as the men can control it. No man worth anything wants to be in an economic subservient relationship with a women, and when it is tried, it cheapens both parties. Stay at home husbands? This enervated and debases both partners. Women may think that they want this, but it just turns them into spoiled children. It generally ends badly.
Boomer feminists, particularly of that more pretentious, upscale WASP species we most encounter, are actually not obsessed with women or woman’s rights at all. They are obsessed with their fathers. They want to be their fathers, (oh, and they hate their mothers, and women of their mothers’ generation). They seem to think, wrongly it turns out, that their fathers more or less lived the life of Cary Grant. (Of course, Cary Grant did not live the life of Cary Grant, but that is another matter.) They get this notion because they watched too many movies and mooned over too many movies stars when they were teenagers, and took too many asinine “literature” course as they matriculated for what we then called an “M.R.S. Degree” and projected the whole silly mess onto their fathers. Most of them where so obsessed with becoming their fathers that they married “men” who spiritually resembled their mothers. (This may be a generational “first” in boomers, yet another one of their “innovations”, and if you are wondering why their male offspring are so wimpy and girlish than this sort of self-selection is most likely the answer.)
Anyway, they actually think that if they achieve money and power they imagine their fathers had that they to will be some sort of Cary Grant, updated with female genitalia.
They are in for at least three rude shocks:
1) They are fantasizing about the realities of their fathers’ actual livss–most likely they had not the power, the women and, most importantly, the immorality that they ascribe to them. They admire fictional fathers, and immoral ones at that, and degrade their real fathers; At some point they will discover that they never knew there real father, but if they did, their fathers would be ashamed of them.
2) They will discover that men at large hold them in utter contempt. This includes their sons. They will end up taken by some grifter or with the last wimp they managed to manipulate.
3) Women do not physically age well. Few want to a look at them after a certain age. This is why there is a cosmetics industry. If they are lucky they will find a man who loves them, loved them when they were young, remembers this and thus tolerates the marks of the years. This is the best most can hope for.
It is a toss up which has the most bitter taste in old age, but I would venture it is a race between #1 and #2.
Boomer feminists have some very bizarre and narcissistic notions about themselves, their capacities, their options and the actual reality of their situations or the world they live in, particularly relative to men. As the boomers age, boomer feminists will age the the most poorly. They plight with be pathetic, but no one will much care anymore, least of all their younger “Sisters”. No man worth knowing will, not even their sons. All will be quite exhausted by their decades of constant whining, grousing and b7tching.
If the Commicrats have their way, and push us to the level of Brazil or Mexico, it could well be that Feminism becomes a rare as owning a brand new car or a house. It has always been about liberal, middle class boomers chattering to themselves. Soon there will be more important things to talk about, but the boomers may find themselves quite speechless for once. Not the feminists among them though, we cAN scarcely be that lucky. No one, however, will be paying them much attention, least of all young men.
John Boot — I agree that being the other woman (or sleeping with her) isn’t suddenly OK when that woman is older.
But you get a lot wrong here. Sure, men (and women) prefer youth and tight skin. But there are many people who have an “it factor” who can attract members of the opposite (or same, as applicable) sex when they age. I’ve seen men I was interested in go for older women, or women who look older (I’m in my early 40s and, knock wood, have evaded wrinkles so far). And I’ve also been approached by much younger men with girlfriends much younger than I am. I have known many older women who have had the opportunity to have assignations with much younger men — some go for it, some don’t, but generally — while there are exceptions — they are much better at hiding it. Again, deceiving a spouse isn’t kosher whether it’s done by a man or a woman. But don’t kid yourself — women, too, have access to younger partners.
And your comment about “pear” being the inevitable shape of older women is laughable. I live in LA, and many women my age, or even much older, have bodies that are the envy of college students. Nice try, buddy, but sexism isn’t a core conservative value.
OCt:
I live in LA, and many women my age, or even much older, have bodies that are the envy of college students.
What nonsense, I can assure you that no female college student, partcuarly in LA, “envies” the body of women over 40. They might find one “well preserved”, but that is about it. Has it been that long?
Sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. BTW, tou should perhaps examine just why those “younger men” are “approaching you. You might, after a little thought, not be too flattered.
Oh, an nice try, but telling the truth about women, particularly feminists, is not “sexism”, it is living in the real world and being honest about it. You should try it sometime.
you are perpetual filth
I was just reading these comments since I don’t have much to do at the moment and whiskeys paragraph , “Women know damn well the character of the men…” hit me between the eyes. Economy of words with maximum effect. Good job. And I love the tag line , “There, fixed that for you”.
You musta fixed flats in a filling station one time ?
Men and women who date people far younger than their own age don’t look younger by proxy, just the opposite in fact, they look even older because they’ve got someone on their arm glaringly younger looking. So, that means your big hips, or pot belly, balding head etc. stand out even worse when standing next to someone with none of those things.
When I see old men with young women, that’s all I see. An old fart with a young woman old enough to be his daughter or in Hefner’s case his grand-daughter. YUCK. Puke. NO SPANK YOU. Larry King, die already.
I like Streep but this kind of movie is like the ‘Death becomes her’ caricature writ large. Not what she probably aimed for.
soft porn and the middle age, sounds awesome,not. shouldn’t it be called American Pie, the Geritol age. A midlife crisis mamma mia get some. bow wow wow
It’s funny that many of the commenters here are getting so worked up about this film.
Nancy Meyers has a certain formula, and her films target a specific cohort of women. They’re not intended as anthropological studies. They’re fantasies where the women are fabulously successful, with glamorous lives, and men pursue them like they did when they were 20 something – and if a few bimbos get knocked down a peg in the process, that’s good too. It’s escapism. The excesses are deliberate and crafted to allow her audience to suspend their cynicism and disbelief.
hattip said: ” [1] Young men are not interested in older women, particularly those over 40. Period.
Another one: [2] Young women are not particularly interested in men over 50, unless they have lots of money or power, which is to say that they are mostly interested in the money and power and not the man. Period.
And other one: [3] Men have no interest at all in their women having power at all. None whatsoever.”
Hattip, how much life experience do you have, exactly?
[1] Most men and women find partners their age or younger most attractive. However, plenty of men find women over 40 attractive.
[2] Correct.
[3] Incorrect. Power can be an aphrodisiac in both men and women if it’s worn well. Power isn’t sexy in Barney Frank or John Boehner, and it isn’t sexy in their female equivalents either. Plenty of men find power as held by Condi Rice (over 50), Sarah Palin (over 40), Sue Lowden (over 50) or Helen Mirren (over 60) attractive. I represent a number of female rainmakers who have younger partners, many of whom have their own money.
There is, however, one group of men for whom your [3] is correct, and that’s insecure men with either limited professional success, or very little potential in other areas, possibly including performance issues. These men will typically need there to be some kind of power differential between themselves and their partners, to lessen their anxiety enough to feel attraction.
But then again — that kind of man typically is not very attractive to a powerful woman. Or so I’ve always felt.
22. hattip: “3) Women do not physically age well.”
Neither do men, chile. It’s just when a man looks grizzled they call it ‘rugged’ and when a woman does they call it ‘haggardly’. But, honestly, if you age poorly it’s probably from not taking good care of yourself (i.e. not drinking too much, not smoking, exercising, wearing sunscreen, eating right etc.).
My husband and his buddies didn’t age well. It happens. He’s lucky I love him. Trust. lol
“What nonsense, I can assure you that no female college student, partcuarly in LA, “envies” the body of women over 40.”
hattip, you need to get help. You appear to have mother issues, and a lot of anger. Why would you make such an easily refutable statement? In LA, as in other cities, many women over 40 do indeed have bodies with a similar fitness level to Halle Berry or Jennifer Aniston, and if you’ve ever been on the UCLA campus, you would be aware that many students are much baggier and saggier than those women or other fit 40+ women.
Obviously, on average, both men and women get less fit/buff with age. However, there are certainly exceptions to that with both genders. The need to make blanket statements, in most discussions with so many variables, speaks to individual issues with the subject matter rather than any kind of monopoly on the truth.
Feminism fights futile battles against nature and morality at the same time. We all know the male brain is hard-wired to seek youth and health, and an apparent capability to provide life sustaining milk to infants. In the wisdom of civilization, a life-long marriage provides women with a mate and helper long after her youthful child-bearing indicators have faded.
By demonizing men and encouraging ‘self actualization’ divorces whenever the fires of lust are inevitably replaced with the boring comfort of mutual assistance, feminism has shorn this helpful framework from women–and even women who don’t buy the feminist social mores are nonetheless still hurt by the overall cultural coarsening that the leftist sexual compulsions encourage.
A movie like this doesn’t work, because it is a didactic preaching of an unreality that even if taken at face value fails to smooth over the dilemma of an older woman who isn’t locked in to a long-term marriage and must ostensibly compete with younger women in a socialist world where sexual activity is the primary coin of the relationship realm.
Its axiomatic that the real world retains more wisdom about life and love than professional entertainers, so the feminist vision is bleaker than most people’s reality.
“By demonizing men …”
Exactly who is demonizing who here? Seems to me there’s a whole bunch of people posting here overly eager to “demonize” women, be they feminist or not, and to assure everyone that anyone over 40 is ugly and should be smart enough to bow out from any further sexual activity.
I don’t have a problem with maligning feminists, but really? ANY woman over 40 is finished??? Dare you to tell Hillary that.
@ P.T.Bull,
RE: “We all know the male brain is hard-wired to seek youth and health[...]” -And, ‘we’ all know that fertile, youthful females are naturally hard-wired to be promiscuous and seek many youthful, masculine males for the chance to be impregnated with healthy, viable sperm which is why men have fairly large scrotums to produce more sperm because of sperm competition. So, while an old man who has moula might snag a young woman, chances are highly likely that she’ll have multiple partners on the side just as Hef’s ‘ladies’ did and do, have and always will until he’s pushing up daisies. Oy! What a conundrum! lol
Agreed that hattip needs help and anyone else that said a woman over 40 is finished romantically and sexually. It’s a movie. You know, those things that, if not documentaries, are just sometimes goofy entertainment. Too many misogynistic postings on this site. Too many situations, movies, etc., attributed to those “horrible, wretched” feminists. Mothers and women are often blamed here and elsewhere for whatever is wrong with society. Just like Eve made poor, gullible Adam eat that damn apple. Please grow up and get a life.
“It’s escapism.”
Nancy Meyers does not appear to be making escapist films. This sixty year old lady wants to believe that she is dealing with reality. And that’s the problem.
I live in a community with a few Agness characters and all I see are lives of quiet misery. These women are not all bitchy like the movie character. Some are perfectly nice but chose to marry older, wealthy men with families they started in their 20s and 30s. Often these ‘trophy wives’ have agreed to not have children of their own as a condition to marriage or they get one token offspring who gets pawned off on a nanny full time so their attention and adoration is not taken away from the husband, who grudgingly goes to school functions looking like he would rather be anywhere else. These women bounce around from spa to gym like stressed out geisha to please men who generally look miserable and annoyed. That part of ‘It’s Complicated’ certainly rings true in my observation.
#28 Jack:
“They’re fantasies where the women are fabulously successful, with glamorous lives, and men pursue them like they did when they were 20 something – and if a few bimbos get knocked down a peg in the process, that’s good too. It’s escapism. The excesses are deliberate and crafted to allow her audience to suspend their cynicism and disbelief.”
I think you’ve just described pornography, haven’t you?
This is apparently an emotional porno film for the >40 female set, then. And should be given no more serious consideration than a group of men watching “The Pizza Guy and the Supermodel”.
To do otherwise would be rather judgmental and sexist, would it not?
#31 Octogalore:
“hattip, you need to get help. You appear to have mother issues, and a lot of anger.”
Walk a mile in his boots, wilya? Maybe his mother was a feminist.
In which case you should get to know the type, since you’ll be running across quite a few more of them.
What Hath Steinem Wrought?
#33 NahnCee:
“ANY woman over 40 is finished??? Dare you to tell Hillary that.”
Monica Lewinsky.
All the Glamorous and Sexy UberFrauFuhrer’s power and intelligence couldn’t keep Bilbo from chasing the help. And it didn’t deter the little tramp from poaching on her preserve, did it?
Your degree and your executive managerial position and your bank account mean doodly-squat when you have to disrobe.
That’s just the way it is, and it’s no different for women than it is for men.
I don’t think Ben Bernanke has nubile young cocktail waitresses throwing themselves at him like he was one of the Jonas Brothers, (although I COULD be wrong, and Ben could be a total “dawg”, but I rather suspect that that’s not the case).
Octogalore I get your point regard the existence of attractive older women, but I think that your observations regarding their prevalence may be peculiar to LA and a few other locals. Because in my experience, living near Philadelphia and working in NYC and LA, your region is exceptional in this regard. I suspect that this results from a combination of lifestyle, cultural expectations, and perhaps an endowment of naturally attractive people.
What’s more typical, on the east coast at least, is for women to settle into dowdiness past their early thirties. It’s my impression that they actually experience social pressures to conform to this expectation. So by their mid thirties, most have made a dramatic transformation in their physical appearance.
Baby Boom, co-written by Meyers, was a great movie. But re-making it 22 years later with stars who are 22 years older….what was she thinking? That the key movie demographic is 59 and up?
This delusion of women weaned on 70′s feminism: that looks don’t matter, that strength doesen’t matter, that old flesh-spotted, aged, wrinkled, is somehow as good as youong flesh–that younger men will stand in lines to get between the sheets with women over 45 to savor their life wisdom and tedious poetry. Sorry Ms. Meyers: no more than Elin Nordgren will hook up with me, Bilgeman or Chuck Pelto. (Although among us I am sure Bilgeman is preferable).
uh, Khadija was 48 when Mohamed was 25 (sure, somethin to count with the moon calendar)
she was also said to be still very beautiful !
well women over 40 are priceful, they know what they want, not just a libidinous partner (that they already have experienced), not someone that looks for a 2nd mother, nor for a maid… they know that the role of the “blonde” call girl type that a man takes to his businesses meetings isn’t for them, so, as they don’t accept the first advances that come to them, the rumor is a bit quick to analyse their situation as of being in the “has been” age.
Plenty of women over 40, 50, 60, still are courtised, not only for their appearence, but for their mind and personnality too, they are more likely to become good witted partners than the youngests. Idem, we can’t make a generalisation for this category of women too, some are still on the same expectations as of the twenties’, some can’t bear to remain alone…
Men when they choose a younger partner need to be reassured on their seduction skills, on their libido, if it’s still working.
But most of the time, if they react so, it’s because their wife didn’t pay attention to their fragility and needs too, old domestic habits, a woman that isn’t cautious of her aspect anymore, kill complicity and love
Marie-Claude:
“But most of the time, if they react so, it’s because their wife didn’t pay attention to their fragility and needs too, old domestic habits, a woman that isn’t cautious of her aspect anymore, kill complicity and love”
Oh, is that what it is? I thought that we were just horny.
Here’s a joke for you:
“The Three Stages of Married Sex”
1) House Sex:
In the first ten years, you have sex anywhere in the house, any time of the day or night. Kitchen at mid-day on the weekend? BANGIN’! In the garage on the hood of the car after work? HIT IT!
2) Bed Sex:
In the second ten years, you have sex in the bedroom, at the regular time, on the regular night…like clockwork. All routine and planned.
3) Hall Sex:
(this is where you wait a beat for the listener to ask: “Hall Sex?”, then you lay down the punch-line)
You pass each other in the hall, and you both mutter:
“F**k YOU!”
Bilgeman: your HRC/Lewinsky example isn’t on point. Bill cheated with women of all ages and body types. Men who cheat aren’t necessarily looking for something younger and tighter, just for someone *different*, some new outlet for affirmation of who he is. Cheating is mostly about the cheater. As we have seen with Tiger Woods, very few of whose paramours held a candle to his wife in terms of conventional attractivenes.
Jack, I agree with your point. Having lived on the east coast and the midwest before coming to LA, it is a place that erects a high bar for both female and male attractiveness (very few fully gray guys below 70 here, and many partake in plastic surgery). In fact, someone like me who tells her husband that a gut is a dealbreaker wouldn’t be able to get away with that kind of superficiality (although of course I tell him it’s also for health reasons) most other places.
But the fact is that whether you’re in NY, or Michigan, or DC, or Dallas, there are going to be not one, not one hundred, but thousands of 40+ women who are desirable, many of whom have younger partners who don’t have a financial incentive. Are they the majority? Of course not. But I don’t need that to be the case to refute some of the comments above that they don’t exist.
Bilgeman: your HRC/Lewinsky example isn’t on point. Bill cheated with women of all ages and body types. Men who cheat aren’t necessarily looking for something younger and tighter, just for someone *different*, some new outlet for affirmation of who he is. Cheating is mostly about the cheater. As we have seen with Tiger Woods, very few of whose paramours held a candle to his wife in terms of conventional attractivenes.
Jack, I agree with your point. Having lived on the east coast and the midwest before coming to LA, it is a place that erects a high bar for both female and male attractiveness (very few fully gray guys below 70 here, and many partake in plastic surgery). In fact, someone like me who tells her husband that a gut is a dealbreaker wouldn’t be able to get away with that kind of superficiality (although of course I tell him it’s also for health reasons) most other places.
But the fact is that whether you’re in NY, or Michigan, or DC, or Dallas, there are going to be not one, not one hundred, but thousands of 40+ women who are desirable, many of whom have younger partners who don’t have a financial incentive. Are they the majority? Of course not. But I don’t need that to be the case to refute some of the comments above that they don’t exist.
Bilgerman, you’re so weird
Cheaters, or rather narcissic people, are not specifically of one gender, both share the same obsessions
hey, Bilge, you’re not a man, you told me once
hattip & company, thanks for the “advice”. I guess that since I’m in my 40′s, I’m basically an old hag and should go kill myself since I have nothing to offer.
But if you don’t mind, may I wait until I give birth to my younger husband’s second child first? It will just be a few more months, and I’ll give my level best to not offend anyone by sticking around much longer than that. I mean, I might just get a wrinkle in the next few months that can’t be moisturized away…gross, right? (I’m pretty sure the rest of me is gonna take a beating from this pregnancy thing and not go back to being perfectly perky, sorry about that, can’t be helped much.) After all, he and I have been so deluded into thinking that there could possibly be anything true between us for the last six years. The most merciful thing I could do is just end it all ASAP. It’s for the best.
Good thing my brother did the right thing and got himself a bride half his age, right? At least she’s got some time yet before she hits her “sell date”. I’m sure he and his rugged good looks (because all men age spectacularly) and savoir faire will serve him well when he’s about 70 and he needs to scope out some new talent.
Seeing the trailier on TV for this was all I needed to know it was worthless trash.
Seriously, a woman of that age acting like a 16 year old Lolita is more sad than anything else. Long gone are the days when women of a certain age were considered sagacious, astute, genteel and wise.
Now thanks to Streep and her ilk they are no different than their teen age sisters. Good to know women (0f whom I am one) like men can’t learn from the mistakes of others or learn from their own.
Sad, sad and still very sad.
I don’t think the author of the article, and certainly not myself were suggesting “older” women be sent to the Soylent Green factory. One would think it would almost go without saying that suggesting that lust–and its ever-present companion, compulsive sexual activity, is a foolish and childish way to determine the value of women in a relationship–as the movie suggests.
As a conservative, I believe that civilization acts as a countermeasure to the compassionless and darwinian nature of our biology, and as I said, the concept of a life-long monogamous relationship provides a support structure that outlasts the initial excitement of lust with a new partner.
I can only expand that my theory is that socialism seeks to make all dependent on the state, and the support structure of marriage and nuclear family are unwelcome competitors to this ideal. Thus far, the state has replaced the family for a large number of people, problem is these dependents of the state have a far lower quality of life, on the average, than those who have taken the more traditional route of a self-supporting family structure.
After all the movies and tv shows I’ve sat through that have old ugly men with women completely out of their league, I find this critique offensive and irratating. It’s not like Streep had two hot twenty year old guys after her, they were men in her age group and of her social status.
The whole notion that women are undesirable after we hit a certain age, while men remain just as appealing is only as true as we believe it to be. Women, if we accept this logic, we are only hurting ourselves. I don’t know about you, but personally, I’m much more grossed out by the image of old men with young women then any cougar I’ve ever seen.
Octo I agree, and I suspect that many of these women aren’t factored because they aren’t recognized as 40+, or they’re ignored because they go against type.
And it does cut both ways. Men tend to flatter themselves with the idea that we get better looking with age, and that young women are attracted to older men. But this isn’t necessarily true. Most men who complain about the condition of their wives or girlfriends are in a similar state, and while many young women will entertain the idea of being with an older man, they’re thinking of George Clooney or Johnny Depp. Your average 40 year old man doesn’t have a chance with most women under 30.
Everyone keeps focusing on Meryl Streep’s character as the offensive archetype but, if you have seen the movie, Agness, the younger wife, is the portrayed as the so-called feminist ideal – powerful job, financially and sexually independent and she is roundly demonized for all of this. She breaks up what was a traditional marriage and then has a baby out of wedlock with a man who is no longer in her life. On the other hand, Jane (Meryl Streep) was the stay at home (it seems) wife and mother who cared for her children and created a nest for them after her long time husband cheats and leaves her for the younger woman (and is now miserable). She is shown as a loving supportive mother and a great cook while Agness is a temperamental, chastising bitch who can’t cook or control her child. Yes, she becomes the ‘other woman’ but the message in the end is a celebration of (affluent) domesticity and the value and beauty of the depth of the relationship that develops from the shared experience of building a life and raising children – something the ex husband clearly regrets missing out on. The movie opens with the celebration of a thirty year marriage and *spoiler* Jane does choose the quiet, gentlemanly, age appropriate man not the sexual alpha male. The movie is far more a celebration of traditional homemaking than sexual promiscuity.
53. Jack,
THANK YOU! Great points. You deserve a big ((HUG)). I’m in my early 40′s and still get asked for my i.d., so this nonsense about women aging poorly and men aging better is rubbish. It depends on genetics and then how well you take care of yourself imho.
Exhibit A.:
Steve Martinwho is only 5 years older than Meryl Streep.
___
54. BCT,
Excellent synopsis! Thank you for a different perspective and more insight into the movie. Your take makes much more sense.
Whatever happened to aging gracefully? To becoming wise and patient and knowing what real love is about (and not necessarily only erotic love)?
“56. Mommynator: Whatever happened to aging gracefully? To becoming wise and patient and knowing what real love is about (and not necessarily only erotic love)?”
It’s to conservative and wholesome for Hollywood, not to mention utterly alien to their way of thinking.
The inevitability of death scarce most people and they would rather dwell on their past youth. Christians believe in the reality of heaven and find aging a reality of life and the approach of a much better existence. So you (rhetorically) don’t believe, well thats the point, I do and I have made it a point to accept and enjoy every age that God as given me and the my wife of my youth.
Rarely are there movies made for anyone over age 40, male or female anymore. And when they are made, they revert to a storyline where the protagonists behave as if they are 25 or younger. This is a misconception on the part of the insulated producers of these fantasies.
As a Baby Boomer, one who remembers a time when your hat, your belt and your shoes had to match, we are not amused by portrayals of us as we are now as silly as they were as teenagers or young adults when they were that age. No movies with adult content, where adults act their age and whose concerns, interests, and problems ever make it to the screen; where decisions are made by characters who have experience, wisdom and character befitting having lived a long time.
The entertainment industry is obsessed by youth. Those of us older than 40 have lived those early years and find life more emotionally satisfying now that they don’t have to navigate the waters of emotional anxiety any longer.
As far as aging feminists go, the vast majority of women never marched or burned their bras. We got marred, had families, went to work whether we wanted to or not, and have come to near-old age with a genuine appreciation of how adults actually think and behave. To relive our youths would be emotionally impossible, and not even desirable because we’d make the same mistakes all over again. Regardless of the century in which one grew up, one can only have so much information at any age, and to admire youth is to deny all one has accumulated by living past the era of tight skin and hair free of gray.
What disturbs me is that female film makers fall into the same trap as their male counterparts, making the same adolescent silly movies that pass for creativity. In the boys’ cases, they use animation and fantasy violent depictions to move a story along. Women use improbable relationships and teenage repartee placed in the mouths of their characters who in real life would never speak those words or encounter the improbable situations in the scripts set up. Everything is fantasy.
Only the British seem to make movies that treat aged characters with dignity and respect. Says a lot for us, no?
This is not a “chick flick.” Movies like this (it’s becoming a genre), such as the previous “Something’s Got to Give,” are romantic fantasy fulfillment movies for the post-menopausal woman. They need a new name.
They are Hen Flicks.
Hey, maaan, don’t take the brown Geritol!