Issa Calls Holder to Account
On May 3, Congressman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) managed to haul Attorney General Eric Holder in front of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, where he is the chairman, to discuss “Project Gunrunner.”
Project Gunrunner was the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) operation in which as many as 2,000 firearms were allegedly allowed to walk across the Mexican border in an attempt to track down the “big fish” in the gun trafficking rings — and, presumably, the drug cartels. The attempt not only failed but, according to Issa, resulted in the deaths of two federal agents.
Issa had previously subpoenaed documents and personnel from the Department of Justice and from ATF — and was flatly refused.
The Wall Street Journal reports that Holder claimed in his testimony Tuesday that it was not the policy of the DoJ to allow weapons across the border. Or, to be more specific, he attempted to claim this, in a sentence which was very carefully parsed:
Under no circumstances should guns be allowed to be distributed in an uncontrolled manner.
Of course, the goal of Project Gunrunner — and Operation Fast and Furious — was to allow those weapons across the border in a very carefully controlled manner and to track them.
The program began in 2009, but Holder said he’d only become aware of it in recent weeks and refused to say how far up the chain of command the decision to implement the program went.
According to the Wall Street Journal:
Mr. Issa asked Mr. Holder whether he or his top lieutenants were aware of the tactics. Mr. Holder didn’t say who signed off on the program, dubbed “Fast and Furious,” or how high up the chain the approval went. He said he became aware of it only in recent weeks.
In a strongly worded letter sent earlier this week, Issa and Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), the ranking member on the Senate Judiciary Committee, essentially accused Holder of lying to Congress:
In its latest denial, the Department seems to focus more on whether ATF knew guns were being trafficked to Mexico than whether the ATF knew they were being purchased by straw buyers. While it might be typical in Washington for lawyers to narrowly parse statements and argue over fine distinctions to confuse the issue, those are not the kind of answers that we believe the Justice Department should give to Congress when asked straightforward questions about such a serious matter as this one.
We are extremely dissapointed that you do not appear to be taking this issue seriously enough to ensure that the Department’s representations are accurate, forthcoming and complete. We will continue to probe and gather the facts independently as it has become clear we cannot rely on the Department’s self-serving statements to obtain any realistic picture of what happened.
Grassley went so far as to pen a hand-written postscript under his signature block:
PS: You should check to see if you are getting accurate information from your staff. You might be ill-served.
According to a story originally broken by CBS News earlier this year, the operation was designed to allow “straw buyers” (who purchase the weapons for someone else) to buy high quality weapons, including .50 caliber sniper rifles, from cooperating licensed dealers in the U.S. ATF would then track those weapons and hopefully take down the gun-running rings and perhaps the cartels as well.
Some of those weapons were allegedly used by criminals to murder Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata.
An assertion which Holder said he found “offensive”:
The notion that somehow or another that this Justice Department is responsible for those deaths — that assertion is offensive.
As The Daily Caller reports, a combative Issa fired back:
What if it’s accurate, Mr. Attorney General? What am I going to tell Agent Terry’s mother about how he died at the hand of a gun that was videotaped as it was being sold to a straw purchaser fully expecting it to end up in the hands of drug cartels?
What’s offensive is Holder trying to parse his way out of admitting his department screwed up by the numbers. Fox News is now reporting:
An internal memo from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives shows that U.S. officials allowed criminals to buy 1,318 guns worth nearly $1 million, even after they suspected the buyers were working for Mexican drug cartels, and that the agency’s effort to stop the guns had “yielded little or no results.”
The program would have been worth it had they even caught one of the major traffickers, or managed to trace them back to the cartels. As tragic as the deaths of Agents Terry and Zapata were, they would at least have had some meaning. But as Issa asked, even though there are 20 cases which were part of the program going to trial in June,
Isn’t it true that those 20 cases going to trial in June are basically a bunch of meth addicts who were straw buying? You don’t have the kingpins. What you have are the people you already had.
Meanwhile, Reuters reports the Obama administration was trying to curb the sales of firearms to Mexico by putting new restrictions on gun stores in the four states bordering Mexico at the same time that the ATF was asking gun stores to make sales they knew were illegal.
In a bid to curb the flow of guns into Mexico, where drug cartels have waged deadly wars to protect their business, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has sought to tighten reporting requirements in Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California.
Of course, in Arizona, at least, the dealers were reporting such purchases — and were mightily concerned about who was buying them and where they might be going.
It is beyond comprehension that a program such as this was not personally signed off on by Eric Holder. It strains credulity to believe that a program such as this, which could have a profound effect on U.S.-Mexican relations, did not have the approval of the State Department, at bare minimum, and likely the White House as well.
Holder will also testify in front of Grassley’s committee — where, presumably, he will also face tough questions. It all comes down to this: how high does this go? Who knew about it, and when did they know it? America needs answers.
Yeah, right. Well, we do, after all, happen to be working with “the most transparent administration in history.” That merely means they use more black sharpie pens than any other while releasing pap.
Say, I take a pistol into an Oklahoma City bank, say they arrest me, say I tell the police that, really I’m well-intentioned: “Can’t you see what’s really going on here—I’m actually trying to help the bank improve it’s security—why can’t you fools believe me? I’m helping; I really am: I swear, . . . it’s for G0D and country, . . . it’s for the children? If you guys don’t let up, . . . I swear, I’ll tell the judge just how offended you’ve made me feel, . . . I’m gonna tell ‘im.”.
Holder is just not believable, . . . whoever is sneaking guns into Mexico can be said to be in fulfillment of a likelihood for some extent of culpability in the deaths of the agents because, the events are connected in time, or, because they are connected in time and place, or, in time and place and person and occurrence, or because Holder’s protestation sounds disingenuous.
As a cover, Holder’s expression of weak indignation “that this Justice Department is responsible for those deaths — that assertion is offensive”, is far, far insufficient, . . .
To my mind, he’s kind of like those, taken over in the War of the World—beneath that shiny smile, . . . is the horrid shape and visage of an alien life-form, . . .
So the drug cartels are paying for Obama’s election campaign next year?
Why not? they paid for it last time, but along with Holder being corrupt and anti-American, the FEC has a political agenda that protects Nobama!
To go a little further, my understanding is that the DOJ is now telling anyone who has a relative killed by one of these guns being tracked by our Gov, has the right to sue the sellers, and here’s how…. A back door effort to put said manufacturers out of business. The dirtiness of this is mind boggling
what i find offensive is holder and the whole of this administration lying to my congress and the american people. how do i know they are lying? i can see their lips moving. holder needs to resign, and anyone else involved in this cluster f*** needs to be fired, with no severance pay and no benefits,and forever be barred from any federal employment or office in government. as the president is responsible for those under him we need to fire him too, in november 2012, as we likely will not be able to impeach him forthwith, as he deserves, for malfeasance and misfeasance in office.
AND OBAMA KNEW NOTHING? THATS WHAT WE WILL HEAR….
I refer you to Sgt Schulz (AKA, John Banner) from “Hogan’s Heroes” “I know nuh-THINK….nuh-THINK!” And Holder’s gig?
Meme 01 “I’m offended”
Meme 02 “You’re pickin’ on me cuz I’m black”
(There is no meme 03)
I could only draw it in my head…a cartoon of Holder, with his hands held out in front of him, palms up, with a big *poof* and on the cloud that just blew up in his face, “Operation Fast& Furious”. Damage control on this, is, like everything else they do, minimal. Why? Because until now, no one has held this administration to account on anything. Why should they worry about this? “What’re they gonna do? Claim it’s “unconstitutional? Ha! Like that’s gonna work.”
My hat’s off to Issa because he has this guy dead-to-rights. (That’s figurative speech for those of you in Rio Linda) He can’t weasel his way out of this, black or not. No, I realize no one has made race an issue…but I’m pretty sure they will once Holder’s back is to the wall. One of those, “charges of racism in 3, 2, 1.”
I still say that the whole operation smells of another nefarious agenda; That being that they fully expected US citizens to be killed with those guns, which would work well into their plans for gun control. But…they aren’t very good planners. Good manipulators, perhaps but they don’t understand as much as they think they do and never anticipate the law of unintended consequences. Now it’s gone off in their face and they are at a loss as to what to do. No amount of lying, conniving, word-parsing, re-naming, etc. will undo the damage done. Issa is doing it right; Asking direct questions and Holder is answering like a high-school sophomore who thinks he’s the smartest kid in the room, not realizing the teacher used to be a Sergeant in the military and had seen and heard it all.
Not law of unintended consequences. Law of reality is what they don’t know. This is government. The hubris is that someone in Washington can influence or control what happens around the Mexican border – given all the players down there.
There is so much skin in this game that any response from Washington other than “We know who the cartels are – go and finish them” is useless. Of course after we finish them we have to seal the border.
Who owns this country anyway?
It seems as though every day we are treated to a new outrage from this administration. To paraphrase the Good Book, they have taken the People’s House and turned it into a den of thieves! One almost develops combat fatigue just reading about these unbelievable breaches of trust, without which the glue that holds us together as a nation and as a member of the world community simply disintegrates, leading to complete anomie, a word I used to consider rather exotic that now springs to mind almost daily as the most apt term for the specter of dissolution that threatens our beloved, once great country. Thank you for continuing to shine the light of truth on this horrendous story, and God bless Senators Issa and Grassley.
“It all comes down to this: how high does this go? Who knew about it, and when did they know it?”
With respect to the author, it does not come down to this. What it comes down to is whether Chairman Issa can get straight answers from these people. because, if he can’t, if the stonewalling continues, with a subpoena here or there, and if we’re still talking about this a year from now, then there is no government oversight.
I repeat, unless Issa can force cooperation, we are all at the mercy of a lawless administration.
My money is on “we are all at the mercy of a lawless administration.”
GOT THAT RIGHT.
Right on, Right on. This is political war and they are acting in a contemptable fashion, if not being in 100% contempt!! You have hit the bullseye. Let’s see what Issa can uncover and expose.
I cannot understand why the House just does not commence impeachment procedures against Holder. Obama will give him up faster than his own grandmother or Jeremiah Wright. The House has at least six or seven counts which they can bring to the case, the gun running being just one of the pattern of misconduct.
Holder will resign but the message to Obama will be clear enough to ensure behavior in this department improves in the final 18 months of the regime, particularly given the public exposure of misconduct. Bringing the political employees to account as witnesses will also make some of the more radical members decide “to spend more time with their families” or “return to private practice” (screwing the public).
Actually, the story was “broken” by David Codrea and Mike Vanderbough at “war on guns” and “sipsey street irregulars” respectively. See their sites for yourselves for in depth coverage of this gunwalker debacle.
“It is beyond comprehension that a program such as this was not personally signed off on by Eric Holder. It strains credulity to believe that a program such as this, which could have a profound effect on U.S.-Mexican relations, did not have the approval of the State Department, at bare minimum, and likely the White House as well.”
Holder should have been fired months ago, especially after that stupid idea of putting al Qaeda people on trial in New York City. Add that to the Black Panther’s case and now his determination to unilaterally eliminate the Defense of Marriage Act, and he is a very, very, dangerous person to have as Attorney General. And Alberto Ganzales was forced to resign over NOTHING compared to this. The Republicans in the House should keep after this bum until he finally does quit. And it can’t happen soon enough.
You all just do not understand the general philosophical differences between the right and the left of the political spectrum.
The right’s idea is that government is merely an adjunct of society, used as a method of securing life, liberty and property for the citizens.
The left, however, believes that life, liberty and property are bestowed upon the people in accordance with the government’s goals.
Holder (and the rest of the Obama regime) do not believe they are answerable to anyone. They are GOVERNMENT and as such are not required to answer to the people or their representatives. Those pesky elections are merely situations that must be periodically tweaked and manipulated so that the right people will remain in power.
That’s why Obama’s re-education and transformation of America must be directed toward making the citizens understand that the government is in charge and controls society, not the old-fashioned ideas of liberty contained in dusty documents like the Magna Charta and the US Constitution.
“The right’s idea is that government is merely an adjunct of society, used as a method of securing life, liberty and property for the citizens.”
“The left, however, believes that life, liberty and property are bestowed upon the people in accordance with the government’s goals.”
Succinct. Absolutely true.
(I second another comment here, that unless something substantive happens as a function of Issa’s et al. inquiries, this is just so much blowing in the wind)
I seem to recall that there have been many societal structures where the government was in control over the people…not the other way around. Generally until sometime in 1776. I guess it was fun while it lasted.
The Right believes in government of the people, by the people, for the people (well, more of less).
But the Left believes in government to the people, in the name of the people, in spite of the people.
We have morphed into a despotic dictatorship, as Congress pushed more and more of its responsibilities onto the executive branch over decades. It was a plum waiting for the ‘right’ person to grab the reins of power. Americans went the same way as the Romans, trading freedom and personal responsibility for crumbs off the table of the elite.
The US was the only country founded on liberty for the individual with a constitution that was a blueprint for sustaining that freedom. Can we regain our lost heritage at this late stage? If so, How?
The problem I have with this administration, the Justice Department and DHS is who’s country are these people trying to protect. It certainly isn’t ours. We are hearing that there are terrorist training camps just across from our southern border, and that border is still not secure. Why not?
There are terrorist training camps WITHIN the geographic United States, 36 of them, according to LTC Allen West, a source I trust, and he made that statement in 2008! WAKE UP, AMERICA!!!
LET ME GUESS, THEY ARE FOR ALL WHITE PEOPLE?
West was referring to jihadist camps.
For a look at these camps in the US, examine the Jamaat ul Fuqra. Links include: http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/terroristoutfits/jamaat-ul-fuqra.htm and http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/08/paul-williams-i.html for starters.
Then read up on the Tucson assassination, etc.
Grassley to Holder:
“We are extremely dissapointed that you do not appear to be taking this issue seriously enough to ensure that the Department’s representations are accurate, forthcoming and complete.”
While Eric is extremely disappointed that his own two-faced mumbling fumblingness…
Failed to convince even the casual observer that he has as many as 3 brain cells to rub together
It’s weird to see Holder stand on his head to justify the legality of the bin Laden mission while, at the same time, refusing to drop his department’s pursuit of members of the CIA who may have been involved in enhanced interrogation, dropping the clear cut case of voter intimidation against the reprehensible New Black Panthers & attempting to crush the state of Arizona as it tries to protect itself against illegal immigration and its attendant mayhem.
Eric Holder picks and chooses which laws to enforce as a function of his own internal brain dead ideology, not United States law. Apparently his hand picked staff, individuals like asst. AG Loretta King, is similarly biased and brain dead.
Great link, tanstaafl! Thanks.
Clearly, from the video, Holder is trying his best to avoid the issue and not answering anything directly. I cannot deal with people like that. Discussing peripheral issues, misdirecting, trying to steer Issa into the void…most likely to get into some sort of p***ing contest, etc. It’s surreal. A supposedly grown man who is charged with the responsibility of being the chief lawyer and the top law enforcement official of this nation. But he’s not concerned with that. He is concerned more with “social justice” and making sure “whitey” is punished for slavery. His moral view is skewed heavily and he hates this country almost as much as chairman Obie. In his mind I’m sure it’s, “So what, some border control agent got killed. Big whup.” It’s obvious he doesn’t take it seriously by the way he answers Issa’s direct questions.
I’d like to preface this by saying that I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination. I didn’t fall for the truther, birther, or even the Trig-truther conspiracies. I don’t think there was anyone on the grassy knoll, and I really do believe that we actually did land on the moon. In fact, I have a recent post on my humble little blog mocking the whole birther thing.
However, I am wondering about this whole thing. Let me try to lay it out logically:
1) For a while now, lefties have been pushing the meme that the vast majority of the eeeeeeevil guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels are the result of eeeeeeeeevil American gun dealers, gun manufacturers, and that nasty old Second Amendment that no one except them seems to understand doesn’t really mean that the citizenry can own guns except with permission of the self-anointed elite.
2) This meme has been under serious assault by serious people who are pointing out the facts… such as, for instance, the figures quoted are only for the captured guns that can actually be traced, which is just a really small fraction of the guns recovered, so if eeeeeeeeeeeeevil American guns really are the majority of those traced, they’re just a majority of a tiny slice of the whole pie.
3) Now, put yourself in the position of a lefty who wanted to resuscitate this meme… the best way, obviously, would be to make sure that there were more eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil American guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. But a self-important elite like Eric Holder can’t just drive a semi across the border and start handing out guns like they were candy… there’d be questions, he’d have to enter the heavily Republican border states, and besides, he might miss some good DC cocktail parties!
4) Therefore, he has to have others transport the guns across the border… but he can’t be certain of the political leanings of everyone in his organization, even after generations of removing everyone they can find in federal employment whose political views are even slightly to the right of Karl Marx. So, he has to come up with some sort of a cover story to get these people to actually move the guns. Said cover story will also be handy if this happens to come to light… he can just feed the cover story to the willing media, and they’ll spread it for him.
Voila! Project Gunrunner.
I’m not sure if the flimsiness of the story is more a testament to Holder’s own stupidity or his opinion of how stupid the American public is. Quite possibly, it’s a glowing testament to both.
Want results? Promise there will be no vote on the debt ceiling until Holder comes clean on everything.
AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT WILL WORK? OBAMA COULD SIGN ONE OF HIS ORDERS…CONGRESS IS SO AFRAID OF OBAMA, HOLDER, IN FACT THE WHOLE W.H.
ARE SOOOOOOOOO CORRUPT.
Orders to do what? Issue debt without the consent of Congress? Besides being an impeachable offense, that’s something guaranteed to cost him the election as investors flee US bonds for fear of repudiation, which would be entirely justified on the grounds that the bonds were issued illegally.
Where do we find this story in the Lame Scream Media? We don’t!
Actually, to be fair, the MSM has been all over this one. CBS broke the story and CNN and Fox are both devoting coverage to it.
Patrick
It has been obvious since his nomination that Holder has no respect for the US Constitution and will oppose anything which does not include special dispensations for his race and political aims. Undoubtedly there are those in the Justice Department who support this and I am reasonably sure their analysis of the gun situation will reflect this. I live in Arizona and have been told by many that our border agents are seriously ‘outgunned’ and are often sent over the border with the equivalent of water pistols….in fact, a well aimed squirt of water might be more effective.
I don’t know what it takes to rid the Justice Department of Holder and his minions…many of whom are probably civil servants with multiple ways of protesting…..but action should be started. When ordinary Americans are denied protection and behavior such as that of the Black Panthers at the voting site is declared ‘ok’, something is very wrong and steps should be taken to remedy the situation. Our rights are being denied and it’s not little by little but in giant steps. At the rate things are going, I’m not sure an election will solve the problem; too much can happen in the intervening time even if Obama is defeated.
One of the experiences I had while working at an agency in the Beltway that staggered me like a taser hit was the introduction of “Interest Based Negotiation.” (The irony of your handle and my mental picture of our agency’s stalwart general counsel, with whom I worked closely in the trenches of labor relations, is actually what compelled me to comment.) He presented a well-buttressed brief to top management that the plethora of separate track grievance procedures available to all employees were never intended to be used sequentially and argued the need for a policy clarifying and enforcing that reality. Not only was he completely shot down, but yet another venue was introduced shortly thereafter, to great fanfare and even greater expense: behold, IBN!! Essentially, it was a way to give any and all malefactors who had lost all previous complaints based on no probable cause, whatever it would take to shut them up, if they simply persisted in being loud and disruptive long enough. I retreated to the sanity of the hinterlands not long after, only to see it eventually take hold in flyover country a decade or so later. I knew in my bones we were screwed as a country way back then, and of course things are exponentially worse all these many years later. “Still we fight on, like Desperados,” to quote Jacques Cousteau (after shaking his head, “ No,” when asked if he really believed there was truly any hope of saving our oceans.)
Why is anyone surprised over this, it is just “The Chicago Way”, look it up…
The arrogance, the disregard for the oath of office and the lies that come forth cast a lack of trust for the top law enforcement office of our country. Congressman Issa and Senator Grassley, keep asking those hard questions. It seems that there are impeachable charges for the House to consider.
“It is beyond comprehension that a program such as this was not personally signed off on by Eric Holder. It strains credulity to believe that a program such as this, which could have a profound effect on U.S.-Mexican relations, did not have the approval of the State Department, at bare minimum, and likely the White House as well.”
Uhh… no, it is not and does not. These guys have demonstrated complete cluelessness at times. It would never occur to these guys that there might be international complications to doing this. They would never think to ask State. You just cannot comprehend the abyssal depths of their stupidity.
Furthermore, we are talking about the ATF. They are the worst law-enforcement group ever. They are the Keystone Kops with real guns.
It may well be that Holder had no idea that any of this was going on. His lawyers sit around playing video games, because they having nothing to do. I am sure they are not alone in this in the Department of Justice.
Of course Holder signed off on it. And the proof is likely as close to a single criminal charge against any participant for manslaughter or even perhaps of smuggling, accessory to multiple murders, violation of firearms laws etc. This is not a military unit overseas. This is a civilian law enforcement agency that must obey the laws it is enforcing.
Clearly this morphed into a program to delegitimise gun ownership in America. With no thought given to the victims and the deaths, all the while they shed their crocodile tears.
AND NOTHING WILL BE DONE, NOTHING, IT WILL BE ALL FORGOTEN IN A WEEK……
AND THE WHITE HOUSE WILL B.S. THE WORLD AGAIN
This is the idiot who helped Clinton (as part of his administrations last scandal) pardon Marc Rich in 2001.
Who will pardon holder, when, not if his time before the congress or a federal court comes. Oh wait I think I might have a lead on who will present his defense-in the press at least. Transparency! Transparency you say, FUBAR!
ISSA, is the thorn in Holders life at the moment. Another Paladin will be mounting up soon.
Check “6″
What is truly offensive about this subject is that while obama and holder were selling guns to the drug cartel. Obama and holder are trying to stop law abiding citizens from buying firearms and ammunition to protect themselves on this side of the border. Obama and holder will deny knowing anything about what the ATF were doing with these weapons. Keeping the flow of drugs coming into America so they will get their fair cut of the cartels business. This obama administration has been nothing but offensive and one lie after another lie to the American people. This is definitely the fox in the chicken coop, and congress is a joke. Saying that they are going to ask some hard questions to holder on this ATF scandal. Watch out congress or obama will write you a nasty letter and holder will scat your eyes out, no big lost though, you can not see what is going on now!!
Surely, as head of the DOJ, Holder is responsible for the actions of his department, regardless of whether he knew of the program, before it became public knowledge. If persons are murdered with weapons supplied by a DOJ program, then the victims or their relatives could reasonably claim that the DOJ shares responsiblility for their victimhood. This follows logically for m the DOJ argument that the victims have a case against the manufacturers and suppliers of firearms. Additionaly, it could be asserted that operatives of the DOJ conspired to assist murder. To defend against that charge, they would surely have to detail all of the measures they were aware of, which would prevent any of these guns being used in the commission of a crime. All operatives knowledgable about the program could be considered culpable and DOJ documents could be subpoenaed. Even if a criminal case could not succeed, a civil case for compensation of loss may be possible. I have a strong suspicion that many lower ranking operatives would be unlikely to fall on their sword to protect their superiors.
What I find weird is that the investigating committee know that these politician lie and say so but then leave it at that. This is a show. These people are one and the same. There is a need for a third party that will not fall in to agenda of the powers that be. From what I see of, the gullible American people, I doubt they will awake in time. Just look at the tea party that has been very smoothly controlled. Good luck America.
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