Israeli Voters Expected to Shift Right
The center, which is itself closely linked to Israeli intelligence, agrees that Hamas wants to sustain the quiet but “does not effectively enforce the ceasefire on the other terrorist organizations.” For Israelis living near Gaza, this is an arcane distinction, as their lives revert to the nightmare that Operation Cast Lead was supposed to end or at least relieve for a while.
Throughout, Olmert, Barak, and Livni have had to weigh political considerations in addition to the new U.S. president. While Olmert faces corruption charges and is due to resign, Barak, as head of the Labor Party, and Livni, as head of the Kadima Party, are prime ministerial contenders along with Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu in the February 10 elections. And not surprisingly — with their claims of a successful military operation already ringing hollow — Barak and Livni aren’t doing well.
The latest poll predicts Likud receiving 27 mandates, Kadima 23, and Labor 17 on election day, but with the Likud-led Center-Right bloc far in front of the Center-Left bloc led by Kadima and Labor. Yet Netanyahu isn’t resting easy these days as another right-wing party — Yisrael Beiteinu — led by Avigdor Lieberman, a nationalist and Russian immigrant, continues to gain on him, coming in with 17 mandates in the poll.
Indeed, on Tuesday, Netanyahu made an impromptu visit to the site of the rocket strike in Ashkelon and spoke with a nationalistic ring, averring that, “A government under my leadership will overthrow the Hamas rule in Gaza and bring about a cessation of rocket fire. The policy of blindness followed in the past years has brought us to this situation. When action was finally taken, the IDF performed wonderfully. But the Livni-Kadima government did not allow the IDF to finish the job….”
Political wrangling aside, Netanyahu and Lieberman are both doing well because the approach represented by Kadima and Labor — based on restraint in the face of terror, reliance on foreign forces and monitors (Egyptian, European, Lebanese) to look out for Israel’s security, and a diffident, apologetic mindset — no longer persuades the majority of Israelis amid ongoing attacks. Netanyahu, who has implied that Israel will go it alone against Iran if necessary, also warned Obama against relying too much on dialogue with the mullahs. Israel knows there isn’t that kind of wiggle room.
The attacks restarted on Inauguration Day? Hmm, what could THAT signify? China issued its white paper document on that day, too. Curiouser and curiouser.
Too, I found the article funny, because of the nonsense about the other terrorist groups being behind it. I thought Hamas was the government?
Time for talk talk is over…
it’s time for us to live up to the arab’s worst fears…
What’s to lose? they have been making these claims for decades, and israel has been getting the blame anyway..
why not actually do something?
Mr. Hornik wrote, “The worst incident to date came on January 27 when an IED killed an Israeli soldier at a border crossing and wounded three others, one of them critically. February 1 — last Sunday — was a particularly busy day for the “ceasefire” as terrorists fired three rockets and nine mortal shells at Israeli towns and villages and also shot at IDF forces, resulting in two soldiers being lightly injured by shrapnel.”
So the current Israeli government didn’t finish the job. I guess it’s a manifestation of left-thinking hug-a-thug types. I sincerely hope that Bibi gets to be PM again. He’ll hopefully put an end to it once and for all.
I believe that martyring Muslims really is just helping them along on the path of religious enlightenment. So bombs away! No holds barred, all claws bared this time. Israel has gotta topple Hamas and take military control of Gaza. Anything less is just putting off the inevitable.
Let ‘em have it Israel!
“Netanyahu, who has implied that Israel will go it alone against Iran if necessary.”
I often wonder if by reacting to rhetoric coming from Iran, Israel is playing the fool? What better way to acomplish Islam’s Shia belief of the 12th Imam, than to have Israel nervously pull the trigger preemptively?
I hope they can think it through and realize what it would mean if they were to be the first to strike. Russia’s reaction comes to mind. Those kind of things should be ironed out, before a strike is made.
Speaking of which, I think it would be wiser to live and let live. You’ve got the whole of humanity riding on the decision, potentially.
But who am I to say?
Better by you, better than me, in a seamy dramatic, matter of fact kind of way.
“accomplish”
Does this mean Israelis don’t trust the Wimp in Chief to protect them?
Gary Ogletree typed:
“Does this mean Israelis don’t trust the Wimp in Chief to protect them?”
Is this bad ass enough for you?
Initiate blood purge
Coalition in massacre
Mechanized high tech
Whole sale death in effect
Mutually assured
Destruction will occur
Genocide revised
Same pain through diverse eyes
Can’t stop the warring factions
Hostile from the start
Always war always
Ending bitter peace
Not the last third war
Blood spills for evermore
Patriot hard line
Lay siege till the end of time
No longer kill your brother
Just slaughter one another
Watch for the deadly other
This sibling is a f@#ker
Can’t stop the warring factions
Global tension starts aggression
Peace breaks out then
Breeds contempt unrest
Without a reason to fight
A time to kill
Sick lust for skeletal flesh
A taste for all decay
Enter the soldier blind
Stalking the faceless hunt
There is no conscience in this world
That can be reached for peace
Why face the human question
The need to hate
Dead stare through cynical eyes
A trust in only pain
Murder within the skin
Engrave the art of war
Become death’s vile parade
March on embrace the violent mind
Can’t stop the warring factions
Global tension starts aggression
Peace breaks out then
Breeds contempt unrest
One cryptic reason for life murder
4. Pajewmas tuba teakettle of fish wrote:
Speaking of which, I think it would be wiser to live and let live. You’ve got the whole of humanity riding on the decision, potentially.
But who am I to say?
Peter asks: And how do you live and let live when those you are letting live kill you in the end?
Israeli’s instinctively know what’s best for them and can easily select a leadership appropriate to the times they’re living in.
“And how do you live and let live when those you are letting live kill you in the end?”
Like I said before, if somehow the League of Arab States could be convinced, during this lull in aggression, especially, to organize a coalition of peacekeepers, to not only patrol Gaza, but apprehend despots, and jail them collectively in states of the coalition. Also, confiscate missiles and rockets, and any other weaponry, of course. Eventually intergrating supporters of Abbas back into Gaza to restore peace.
I’m basing my solution on this information:
“King Abdullah criticizes Israel for using excessive force in Gaza and says “one drop of Palestinian blood” is more valuable than all the money in the world.”
Certainly if this information can be taken seriously, they(the Arab league)could step up to the plate, and do something politically constructve. King Abdullah should be held to his word.
I know it sounds simple, but has anything like this ever been attempted?
I can already see it coming. The Arabs want the Jews gone also, blah,blah,blah
Have any efforts been made to reconcile differences lately, though?
when will israel stop trying to act like a super-power? they are funded by american aid -which needs to STOP! why are we funding a terror state of israel with billions of u.s. tax dollars? why are we funding the holocaust of the palestinian people by giving this aid?
Israel is trying to drag the united states into another conflict for their own agenda…if they do anything at all against iran…what they reap is what they will sow..because china and russia will kick their butts…while the americans will look at israel and say ” told you so”….
sorry israel..your false flag war days are over!!
pajewma’s:
“Have any efforts been made to reconcile differences lately, though?”
Please elaborate on the sort of “efforts” you are looking for, and from whom? Practical suggestions, ideas? When formulating remember to account for all the facts pertinent to failed “efforts” of the past?
Would you care to elaborate on exactly what these differences are? You can start in 1948 when the Arabs declared war on Israel immediately after the state was established? Or perhaps you can start with the teachings and beliefs of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, could you elaborate those differences?
I mean, since diplomacy has been if effect regarding this conflict for 60 years, and no one has tried your idea, go for it. But I don’t know what differences you’re talking about. Better do that preliminary research. Could you please?
David P:
“Please elaborate on the sort of “efforts” you are looking for, and from whom? Practical suggestions, ideas? When formulating remember to account for all the facts pertinent to failed “efforts” of the past?”
League of Arab States coalition of peacekeepers.
naftali:
“Would you care to elaborate on exactly what these differences are? You can start in 1948 when the Arabs declared war on Israel immediately after the state was established? Or perhaps you can start with the teachings and beliefs of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, could you elaborate those differences?
I mean, since diplomacy has been if effect regarding this conflict for 60 years, and no one has tried your idea, go for it. But I don’t know what differences you’re talking about. Better do that preliminary research. Could you please?”
I got a pretty good grasp on what the past grievances were.
http://www.eylerz.net/brief_history.htm
We’d all love hear your reasonable thoughts on how to convince 1,000,000,000 billion people to permanently suspend their 60 year campaign of driving Israel into extinction.
Pajewmas:
“League of Arab States coalition of peacekeepers.”
I asked you to take into account “failed” (UNRWA) efforts of the past and that your ideas be practical, I should have also begged your suggestion bear logic, reason & intelligence.
David P:
“We’d all love hear your reasonable thoughts on how to convince 1,000,000,000 billion people to permanently suspend their 60 year campaign of driving Israel into extinction.”
So you’re of the belief there aren’t any moderates in the Arab world to reason with? And armageddon is on the horizon? Would Israel put the world at risk, with war, before exhausting every avenue of peace? They would be willing to have the burden of accountability for the elimination of all mankind?
Are you an antagonizer or a moderate? You can’t think of anything, besides war? If so, what are you waiting for?
The suspense is killing me.
“antagonist”
The basic problem is the assumption that a peaceful solution is possible in this case. It is not. The minimum conditions that the Palestinians would accept (A complete return by Israel to the 1949 armistice lines, the return within that Israel of 5 million plus Palestinian Muslims that would instantly make Jews a powerless minority, etc) are much more than the maximum concessions Israel can safely make.
So, there can be no peace. Simple as that.
Alex:
“The basic problem is the assumption that a peaceful solution is possible in this case. It is not. The minimum conditions that the Palestinians would accept (A complete return by Israel to the 1949 armistice lines, the return within that Israel of 5 million plus Palestinian Muslims that would instantly make Jews a powerless minority, etc) are much more than the maximum concessions Israel can safely make.
So, there can be no peace. Simple as that.”
And what’s the opposite of peace?….
Seems like times aren’t so bad right now. Are the Israelis waiting for the enemy to gain strength?
Talk is cheap. Later on fellas.
#22
Essentially, yes. Times are bad, and will only get worse as Hamas re-arms and gets ready for the next round. This war will continue until one side or the other is completely defeated. And since the Arabs can start hostilities or stop them whenever they wish, have world public opinion on their side, have unlimited resources and men and have plenty of allies while Israel has none, I would say the advantage is all theirs.
So your solution is for Israel to outsource it’s security to “moderate” Islamic nation-states? Are recipes for disaster your specialty?
Why is anybody arguing with this idiot? I could see the point of it if he/she had anything coherent to say but this ” Pajewmas tuba teakettle of fish” character sounds like someone that got booted off of Daily Kos for lack of coherence. Anybody who thinks Putin will go to mat for Iran for any reason including a preemptive Israeli nuclear strike is definitely on some mind altering substance.
“The suspense is killing me.”–comment 19.
Then I would recommend reading and re-reading Raymond Chandler. Can’t get enough of that Chandler, no sirree. And Dashiell Hammet. Oh yeah, that Hammett is something else. Got to read Hammett.
Pajewmas just doesn’t know his history. (Is his name a jewish reference?)
They had U.N. people in the area. Egypt demanded that they leave and they did. Egypt then moved in and launched their war in ’73. Sure let’s count on someone else to defend us. Good plan.
How about offers to include the Palestinians as part of Jordan. Refused. No Arab nation will take the “poor, suffering Palestinians” into their lands. They are a propoganda tool against Israel; a victim society. They are simply a fiction. Even if we offered to buy them out at, say, $5k/head, no one would take them. $30B dollars would buy them out, and it would be money well-spent to my mind, but it would never be.
“How about offers to include the Palestinians as part of Jordan. Refused. No Arab nation will take the “poor, suffering Palestinians” into their lands. They are a propoganda tool against Israel; a victim society. They are simply a fiction. Even if we offered to buy them out at, say, $5k/head, no one would take them. $30B dollars would buy them out, and it would be money well-spent to my mind, but it would never be.”
A coalition of peace is too much for the “religion of peace” to handle, I suppose. Some of these commentators on this site smack of this report.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4B20DP20081203
And to the inquisitive one, about my username. I adopted it from this blog when I signed into this site:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/our-neighbor-and-why-we-have-to-kill-him/#comment-188929
Resume antagonism.
“Anybody who thinks Putin will go to mat for Iran for any reason including a preemptive Israeli nuclear strike is definitely on some mind altering substance.”
It’s called “nuclear fallout”.
I couldn’t resist this line:
“The answer my friend is blowin in the wind.”
My last three posts are awaiting moderation, so I guess I’ll be on stand by awhile longer.
Putin has a better understanding of the actual danger of nuclear fallout than the above watermelon. A glow-in-the-dark Iran is all to the good for Russia.
China might be more upset, but Isreal has sub launched missiles. The Chinese are rational. China may be able to survive losing a few major cities, but the Party can’t.
“Anybody who thinks Putin will go to mat for Iran for any reason including a preemptive Israeli nuclear strike is definitely on some mind altering substance.”
Better yet, would a case scenario of Pakistani militants overthrowing an already weak government, in order to respond to a preemptive strike on Iran, be more likely? Possibly setting off a chain reaction, that reaches Russia.
Are you saying the Russians wouldn’t react to nuclear aggression from some country, especially Israel, in their neighborhood? Instead, would welcome it? They’re just not willing to it themselves? Why aren’t they taking a tougher stance with U.N. sanctions, then? I know they’re dealing ecnomically with Iran, but it’s okay to disrupt business with a nuclear strike? You must be high.
It won’t be something that would be taken lightly, as you’re implying.
“to do it”
“My last three posts are awaiting moderation, so I guess I’ll be on stand by awhile longer.”–comment 32.
So this comments section is now your personal diary? You’re making comments and responding to yourself? Might as well tell us all what you had for dinner–could be your most logical comment of the day.
It’s just astounding that you think you have ideas that haven’t been tried before and failed miserably, or ideas that no one else has thought of.
“It’s just astounding that you think you have ideas that haven’t been tried before and failed miserably, or ideas that no one else has thought of.”
Oh, I know yours…..war.
Very original.
Dear Diary,
I really don’t think there is a simple solution to the Middle East conflict, but I can tell the difference between right and wrong. I can tell the difference between those shooting 10,000 rockets into Israel for the purpose of randomly killing Israeli civilians and the Israeli hospitals treating the wounded Gazan civilians. That much is clear.
Of course, not everyone can see that. They can barely see the Hamas gunmen because those gunmen stand in a crowd of their own civilian population. And not everyone can hear those rocketeers calling for the destruction of Israel and the murder of its population–because those rockets are so loud.
Golly, dear diary, it sure sounds like the best atmosphere ever for negotiations. Those will work for sure. Gosh and jeepers, negotiations have just got to work.
“Golly, dear diary, it sure sounds like the best atmosphere ever for negotiations. Those will work for sure. Gosh and jeepers, negotiations have just got to work.”
Because the Israelis developed an antagonizing approach to solving the problem, years ago, when they could easily contain the Palestinians. Instead of kindness, brutallity and scorn were used. The idea of the lesser race took control and empathy was lost.
Fast forward to the present day. Now it’s the final solution, they themselves agonized through and ideas like mine are scoffed at, because civility was never established. They created a war mentallity, amongst the Palestinians, by exerting force and control through fear. You are hopeless.
What a fine kettle of fish you’ve gotten us into.
Do you sense a glimmer of truth, in what I conveyed to you? I expect not.
Don’t get me wrong, I know the Palestinians aren’t perfect. But you chose the side of Israel, to defend.
I could of went either way.
“brutality”
“moron”
Is the brutality of war worse than my comment?
“shooting 10,000 rockets into Israel for the purpose of randomly killing Israeli civilians and the Israeli hospitals treating the wounded Gazan civilians. That much is clear.”
Sounds like an abusive husband. Does the husband take the brunt of the blame, if an arrest is made? The wife is much weaker and any wrong she does, is usually overlooked. This is what usually happens in a court of law.
And also I recommend the Israelis stay inside, pretend like it’s cold outside, at least until the boarders open.
Honestly, what would you do, if you were in conditions of the Palestinians in Gaza? Israelis want them gone and they want the Israelis gone. If you were them, would you at this point, forgive and forget, after the recent foray?
I still think my idea hasn’t been given proper validation. I don’t put too much faith in your opinion, naftali. I know you don’t, mine. At least it was war free, in essence.
And if anyone had any sense, a war with “1,000,000,000 billion people” is going to be more costly than any effective peace campaign in Gaza.
Pajewmas your comments, insight & reflections sound absolutely foolish, naive & arrogant, they’re filled with misinformation, revised history and worst of all your unbridled opinions.
““moron””
They submitted your comment for public view, but saved you the anguish of seeing mine. And it’s not #42.
I feel they are highly unjust in their discernment.
To the moderator-“moron”,
You think that is fine and dandy. Hey listen, I’m not here for a popularity contest. Truth is circumstantial around here.
“Is the brutality of war worse than my comment?”
Apparently so, because you chose not to submit it into the public arena, therefore you have showed your bias, judgmental, little pious self-serving nature. I wouldn’t be suprised if naftali was your boy. He is being sheltered by you too much.
“not”
Hey all! What’s coming is EXACTLY WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME.
Time has come and Arabs have won.
Israel will now pay all his f****n mistakes.
Who thinks killing all those thousands innocent civilians could be pardoned?
We were miss leaded like cows by our own leaders for their own agendas and now we are all paying the price.
Everything has been a failure from our side. We all know we are a terrorist country. We are invaders (we renamed ourselves as occupiers), we kills civilians, women and children (we say Hamas use them as Human Shields! Can anybody let anybody harm his child??
We lied to ourselves thinking the worlds will believe us but nah nah) we destabilise the whole world…. Genociding in 21st century!!! The whole universe is against us and at their side.
That’s too sad for us.
Dear Diary,
If I was the leader in Gaza I could fix things in two weeks. I would stop the rockets, I would stop stealing foreign aid packages from the UN, I would blow up the building that housed all of our media, I would take EU money, US money, Israeli money and build infrastructure, I would make the schools centers of real education instead of indoctrination, I would insist that we build some universities and do some research in agriculture and medicine, insist that the professors invent things that will help all human beings, get patents, encourage the development of small business, dig into the earth to build sewage facilities and clean water sources, build my own power plant, and make sure the media that we do have starts focusing on truth rather than propaganda, institute courts that respect the rule of law, define terrorism the way it should be defined, and generally try to make a civil society.
To do otherwise is kind of psychotic. Because nothing will be solved until I do all of those things.
And you know what–that hasn’t been tried yet.
“Duh.”
Queen,
How well spoken of you. Where did you get your degree in English?
Teakettle,
Don’t pick on the small fry. You’re having too much fun with them.
Nothing can be more expensive than an effective peace campaign, because the cost of peace with Islam is infinite. No amount of talk or money will pacify them; our choice is victory, submission or death. I refuse to be a dhimmi. Nuclear war is better than dhimmitude.
Alex @ 24 says ‘Arabs can start hostilities or stop them whenever they wish, have world public opinion on their side, have unlimited resources and men and have plenty of allies while Israel has none. I would say the advantage is all theirs.’
Seems like it doesn’ it? But how does one explain in 1967 when Israeli forces outbeat five Great Combined Arabs Forces in Six Days and even conquered Jerusalem which had been in Arab hands [Jordan], West Bank, Gaza and even the Golan Heights…..? and all this without help from anyone except latterly when it is believed that America helped out with more aircraft. Furthermore in 1973 when Egypt attacked Israel on the Holiest day of the Jewish Calendar Yom Kippur and men had to stop in the middle of morning Prayers, start scrambling on to buses awaiting them to take them to the war-front still with their Prayer Caps and Shawls on them mid war sirens ringing out throughout the Country, it was a last-minute victory for Israel when Ariel Sharon crossed the Canal turning what might have been a defeat into a Victory for Israel. By the same token one might say that Israel has won every war waged against her by the mighty Arabs… whichever denomination… since her recreation in 1947/8 and has even withstood the tyranny and barbarism of heinous suicide-bombers, except for the one war in 2006, a somewhat defeat of the Second Lebanon War when Israel was under the Leadership of Olmert/Livni/Peretz, the latter an inexperienced choice as Defence Minister. At this moment, the aftermath of the recent war ‘Cast Lead’ with Hamas, has yet to be seen how far Israel’s deterrant against Terror in the region has succeeded.
Alex @ 24 says ‘Arabs can start hostilities or stop them whenever they wish, have world public opinion on their side, have unlimited resources and men and have plenty of allies while Israel has none. I would say the advantage is all theirs.’
Seems like it doesn’ it? But how does one explain in 1967 when Israeli forces outbeat five Great Combined Arabs Forces in Six Days and even conquered Jerusalem which had been in Arab hands [Jordan], West Bank, Gaza and even the Golan Heights…..? and all this without help from anyone except latterly when it is believed that America helped out with more aircraft. Furthermore in 1973 when Egypt attacked Israel on the Holiest day of the Jewish Calendar Yom Kippur and men had to stop in the middle of morning Prayers, start scrambling on to buses awaiting them to take them to the war-front still with their Prayer Caps and Shawls on them mid war sirens ringing out throughout the Country, it was a last-minute victory for Israel when Ariel Sharon crossed the Canal turning what might have been a defeat into a Victory for Israel. By the same token one might say that Israel has won every war waged against her by the mighty Arabs… whichever denomination… since her recreation in 1947/8 and has even withstood the tyranny and barbarism of heinous suicide-bombers, except for the one war in 2006, a somewhat defeat of the Second Lebanon War when Israel was under the Leadership of Olmert/Livni/Peretz, the latter an inexperienced choice as Defence Minister. At this moment, the aftermath of the recent war ‘Cast Lead’ with Hamas, has yet to be seen how far Israel’s deterrant against Terror in the region has succeeded and moreover if Israel’s shift to the Right in the next Elections which will be withinin the next few days will be the answer to her future.
poster # 4-maybe you should ask yourself if the Israeli strike of June, 1980 against Saddams nuke reactors was “pre-emptive”? Twenty Five yrs later it turned out to be ingenious. Hate to tell the Jew bashers(and im not jewish), but Bebe Netanyahu is the best antidote to the moslem poison. Sort of like a modern day Charles the Hammer Martel. Bebe understands what scum these savages are, unlike the total IDIOT that 52% of american stupidity elected to the white house in Nov 2008. Throughout history, caving in to a bully has NEVER worked. Bullies only understand getting there tails kicked. It works every time its been tried. Ask Adolph Hitler, Tojo, Napolean Bones Apart, and all there other thugs. Dont ask the Obamaskank-hes too busy asking GEORGE SOROS what to do about “hate radio”.
“pajamas teakettle”- Tell me something, fool-what about the Moslems who were trying to FORCE ISLAM down the throats of the world in the 7th and 8th centuries? The Moslems who were conquered the Eastern Roman empire in the 15th century and were stopped at Vienna by Polish king Joseph Sobieski? Im sure by your “logic” the “israelis” and the Americans must have done something that caused Europe to be attacked by Islam centuries ago, long before there was an Israel or a USA. You scum Islamic supremascists have been that way ever since Mohammead, and will not change until you are CRUSHED.
watch the vitriol turn to acid that always comes out of the ugly ass slash that purports to be a mouth, in the faces of jew haters when bebe is prime minister. the scum supporters of the islamics won’t have enough dry cleaners to remove the stains from their underwear.
nothing will be as it was before. that’s finished and over. gaza and their worldwide network of fascists isn’t buried yet, but the hawks are coming.
all that the united states has done for israel is to hold it back. that’s a message to the ignoranmuses who have no contact with the facts of middle east history or israel as a fighting force.
To 39 Pajewmas tuba teakettle of fish. Quoting you “… because the Israelis developed an antagonizing approach to solving the problem….’ with the Palestinians when Israelis learnt that the Palestinian Charter calls for the total Destruction of Israel and an Islamic Palestine in its place. It is well worth considering whether some of us deem it rational and compulsory that the biblical and historial State of Israel … now the almost 4000 year old Land of Judea/Israel renamed ‘Palestine’ by the Romans 2000 years ago … should commit Suicide in order that a group of Homeless Arab Refugees adopting the name of being ‘Palestinians’ would have the rights to claim land in the region for their 23rd Arab State called ‘Palestine’. It seems no other Arab Country wanted them…….
I get a kick out of people, when they make assumptions in absence of evidence. Jew hater and Muslim, me? I was merely was pointing out some observations I’ve made about some Jewish people, and then I become a Muslim? Are you deprived of a keen sense of observation, or do you hold evident that Jews are beyond reproach? You know as well as I do that during the occupation of Palestine, the IDF treated the Palestinians with contempt, and were constantly antagonizing them. Just google “ Israeli occupation abuse” and 1,450,000 hits come up.
I’m not trying to justify the Palestinian missile attacks, although I believe there is some justification for hostility, despite their belief in Islam. Which I point out, because I’m inclined to believe their retaliatory actions, at this point in time, are driven more by retribution than by their belief in Islam. Islam, in part, guides and unites them. IMO
That brings me to my reasoning for promoting peace, instead of war. I think the opportunity to united the surrounding Arab countries, for adopting a peace initiative would be worth an the effort, to say the least. This report states just that:
http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2009/01/08/time-to-test-the-arab-peace-offer/
There is that nagging problem of Hamas and the Israeli West Bank settlers, though. If the Iranians stop aid to them, that would severely decrease Hamas’s ability to attack Israel. That could become a reality depending on how flexible Iran would be to rekindle cooperation with the USA.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/eu_us_iran_shaky_start_analysis
Also, some effective coalition of peacekeepers are needed.
As for the settlers in Israel, they’re going to be angry “like an old man trying to return soup at a deli” when and if that happens.
In the meantime, I wonder if Israel would bomb it’s own innocent civilians going after their murders within their country?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1214132693680&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Compare the per capita of that to killings from terrorist last year.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/osloterr.html
You all know how many Palestinians were killed in Gaza this past Dec. & Jan ..
Again, I’m not promoting killing, or how it’s being done, just putting it to perspective. Hopefully peace will prevail. You’d think it was crime around here to want peace.
I get a kick out of people, when you make assumptions in absence of evidence. Jew hater and Muslim, me? I was merely was pointing out some observations I’ve made about some Jewish people, and then I become a Muslim? Are you deprived of a keen sense of observation, or do you hold evident that Jews are beyond reproach? You know as well as I do that during the occupation of Palestine, the IDF treated the Palestinians with contempt, and were constantly antagonizing them. Just google “ Israeli occupation abuse” and 1,450,000 hits come up.
I’m not trying to justify the Palestinian missile attacks, although I believe there is some justification for hostility, despite their belief in Islam. Which I point out, because I’m inclined to believe their retaliatory actions, at this point in time, are driven more by retribution than by their belief in Islam. Islam, in part, guides and unites them. IMO
That brings me to my reasoning for promoting peace, instead of war. I think the opportunity to united the surrounding Arab countries, for adopting a peace initiative would be worth an the effort, to say the least. This report states just that:
http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2009/01/08/time-to-test-the-arab-peace-offer/
There is that nagging problem of Hamas and the Israeli West Bank settlers, though. If the Iranians stop aid to them, that would severely decrease Hamas’s ability to attack Israel. That could become a reality depending on how flexible Iran would be to rekindle cooperation with the USA.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/eu_us_iran_shaky_start_analysis
Also, some effective coalition of peacekeepers are needed.
As for the settlers in Israel, they’re going to be angry “like an old man trying to return soup at a deli” when and if that happens.
In the meantime, I wonder if Israel would bomb it’s own innocent civilians going after their murders within their country?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1214132693680&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Compare the per capita of that to killings from terrorist last year.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/osloterr.html
You all know how many Palestinians were killed in Gaza this past Dec. & Jan ..
Again, I’m not promoting killing, or how it’s being done, just putting it into perspective. Hopefully peace will prevail. You’d think it was crime around here to want peace.
“they”
“unite”
I get a kick out of people, when they make assumptions in absence of evidence. Jew hater and Muslim, me? I was merely was pointing out some observations I’ve made about some Jewish people, and then I become a Muslim? Are you deprived of a keen sense of observation, or do you hold evident that Jews are beyond reproach? You know as well as I do that during the occupation of Palestine, the IDF treated the Palestinians with contempt, and were constantly antagonizing them. Just google “ Israeli occupation abuse” and 1,450,000 hits come up.
I’m not trying to justify the Palestinian missile attacks, although I believe there is some justification for hostility, despite their belief in Islam. Which I point out, because I’m inclined to believe their retaliatory actions, at this point in time, are driven more by retribution than by their belief in Islam. Islam, in part, guides and unites them. IMO
That brings me to my reasoning for promoting peace, instead of war. I think the opportunity to unite the surrounding Arab countries, for adopting a peace initiative would be worth the effort, to say the least. This report states just that:
http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2009/01/08/time-to-test-the-arab-peace-offer/
There is that nagging problem of Hamas and the Israeli West Bank settlers, though. If the Iranians stop aid to them, that would severely decrease Hamas’s ability to attack Israel. That could become a reality depending on how flexible Iran would be to rekindle cooperation with the USA.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/eu_us_iran_shaky_start_analysis
Also, some effective coalition of peacekeepers are needed.
As for the settlers in Israel, they’re going to be angry “like an old man trying to return soup at a deli” when and if that happens.
In the meantime, I wonder if Israel would bomb it’s own innocent civilians going after their own murders within their country?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1214132693680&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Compare the per capita of that to killings from terrorist last year.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/osloterr.html
You all know how many Palestinians were killed in Gaza this past Dec. & Jan ..
Again, I’m not promoting killing, or how it’s being done, just putting it into perspective. Hopefully peace will prevail. You’d think it was crime around here to want peace.
You need to get back on your meds. I know you feel fine, but really, follow doctor’s orders. You say
“I’m not trying to justify the Palestinian missile attacks, although I believe there is some justification for hostility”
then you say
“That brings me to my reasoning for promoting peace, instead of war.”
Seriously, if you want peace, then there is no justification for those attacks. That’s why I don’t believe you want peace. And since you posted the same thing three times, you are insulting all of those people who stutter and have Tourette’s.
I suggest that my plan would actually work and promote peace, comment 47. It’s obvious that it would work better than rockets–which believe it or not, are quite dangerous and violent.
The only logical way for your arguments to hold together is if you want to see Jews killed. You aren’t promoting peace, you just think you are promoting peace. You don’t even want peace, logically, from what you say. Again, if you think you do, it’s a delusion.
I’ll say it again–you have two societies on the West Bank and Gaza completely dedicated to the murder of Jews. It’s their choice. They can build civil societies with transparent institutions and honest media, or they can have a version of Sesame Street with a Jew-eating rabbit as a main character. They can name streets after Arab scholars, not suicide bombers. It’s their choice. And, did you know, there is a civil war between the government of Gaza and the government of the West Bank–because the Gazans feel the West Bank isn’t putting enough effort into killing Jews. Can you not comprehend this? If not–talk about it with your therapist.
To teakettle of fish @ 60. Your comments noted. However, one point you have not considered is how you would react towards one who identifies himself as he who wants to kill you. With kid gloves perhaps.Palestinians are Arabs who lived under the British Mandate while others in this group who became refugees after 1948 are simple Arab emigreits from neighbouring Arab Countries and together they decided to call themselves Palestinians with the view of claiming land in the region of Palestine for a State.Taking into account why the Arab League in 1950 resolved that no Arab Country should give the Palestinian Refugees Arab Citizenship was because ‘a criminal element’ was found within this group, thus leaving them in the hands of the Jews. At the same time one might ask by what public international law is Israel obliged to accept or support the establishment of a sovereign Arab State west of the Jordan River? when their own Arab League dismisses them totally. Has the Jewish State become a Scspegoat for Arab Oil? and a good reason why Jews should shift to the Right for their very survival.
I was tired last night, I guess the moderator was too?
I’ve been privileged enough to have them (he or she) edit me before, they went as far to correct my spelling, one time. “Not” a chance now, after comment #44. No mercy on me.
They can apparently edit for the worse, also. I was bad, but not that bad.
Believe me, I was only tired. I’ve been substance free for years now. (there’s a joke in there somewhere, although it would be bad, that bad)
“as” for my previous comment.
@naftali:
“I’m not trying to justify the Palestinian missile attacks, although I believe there is some justification for hostility”
then you say
“That brings me to my reasoning for promoting peace, instead of war.”
Again, I’m not promoting killing, or how it’s being done, just putting it into perspective. Hopefully peace will prevail.
Did you read everything I stated? Apparently three times wasn’t enough for you to comprehend. Here’s what you left out:
Which I point out, because I’m inclined to believe their retaliatory actions, at this point in time, are driven more by retribution than by their belief in Islam. Islam, in part, guides and unites them. IMO
Again, I’m not promoting killing, or how it’s being done, just putting it into perspective.
So you’re saying Israelis give the Palestinians no reason to have any animosity?
Be for real. I know admitting mistakes are diffcult for you.
@Sylvie:
Thanks for your respectable response to my comment.
“At the same time one might ask by what public international law is Israel obliged to accept or support the establishment of a sovereign Arab State west of the Jordan River? when their own Arab League dismisses them totally. Has the Jewish State become a Scspegoat for Arab Oil?”
When you look at recent news, the Arabs seem to be tilting more towards acceptance of Israel. Maybe nuclear deterrence has played a factor in their reasoning. I posted this link in my comment you are responding to:
http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2009/01/08/time-to-test-the-arab-peace-offer/
I can understand if you ignore links, but it gives indication that the Arab League may be coming around, with strings attached(a saving face type of thing). The Arabs seem a little more mellower these days, though. After all Israel does have the upperhand, when speaking in terms of the deterrence.
As for oil? The possibility of large deposits of oil in Israel has only came into recent awareness. And for you to assume that has been their driving force in the desire for expelling Israel, seems somewhat farfetched. Present attitude from the Arab League doesn’t reflect your analysis.IMO
“Which I point out, because I’m inclined to believe their retaliatory actions, at this point in time, are driven more by retribution than by their belief in Islam. Islam, in part, guides and unites them. IMO
Again, I’m not promoting killing, or how it’s being done, just putting it into perspective.”
I’m going to put this back in your court. Can you see from your statement that your are implying a framework of perspective, and a timeline in which the conflict began–because you see the attacks as retaliatory? Now, please tell me your time frame, and the framework of your perspective.
I’m going to let you paint yourself into a corner. If you don’t understand what I’m asking, kindly withdraw from the conversation.
@Sylvie:
“At the same time one might ask by what public international law is Israel obliged to accept or support the establishment of a sovereign Arab State west of the Jordan River? when their own Arab League dismisses them totally. Has the Jewish State become a Scspegoat for Arab Oil? and a good reason why Jews should shift to the Right for their very survival.”
Okay, I misinterpreted what you stated. What you say has always been suspicious in the way surrounding Arab states are never willing to compromise westward expansion of Palestine. Their unwillingness to do so and their eagerness for Israel to oblige the Palestinians with the openning of borders into Israel is indeed suspect. At any future peace talks Arab nations should provide a solid reason as to why that is so, or have any been gave, besides the 1950 “criminal” element you pointed out.
Do you think efforts are like beating a dead horse? And if the Arabs pretty much want the Israelis dead, it seems like they would just storm Israel in a suicidal rampage. Can’t you see that without bringing their shortcomings to light, through negotiations, public opinion will lean toward injustice of killing innocents.
Negotiations to educate the Palestinians towards becoming neutral, should be mostly an Arab undertaking. Like I mentioned earlier, some effort needs to made by the Arab League if they know what’s best for them, or else they might as well go on the rampage I mentioned. Either way, death will be in store for many who are bidding their time and neglecting their opportunity for resolve.
“I’m going to put this back in your court. Can you see from your statement that your are implying a framework of perspective, and a timeline in which the conflict began–because you see the attacks as retaliatory? Now, please tell me your time frame, and the framework of your perspective.
I’m going to let you paint yourself into a corner. If you don’t understand what I’m asking, kindly withdraw from the conversation.”
I don’t think you understand. Even though animosity is evident, the blame knows no culprit. Sure Palestinians can take part in sharing it, but are the Israelis willing to admit that some of their actions have been atagonizing, to say the least? Do you think children in Gaza really see anything other than those actions? And that results in animosity towards Israelis?
15-love
no “one” culprit
@Naftali:
Please don’t point out that Israeli children experience the same kind of trauma that the Palestinian children do.
I can’t get it out of my head, the bad acting of an Israeli family going to a bomb shelter. The children had smiles and the adults tried to use over dramatics to pander to the camera.
Tell me, where are the bomb shelters in Palestine?
The generation of the occupation, is the one attacking Israel, by the way. There’s some more animosity for you.
You didn’t answer my question. You didn’t tell me your perspective, you didn’t lay out your historical timeline showing that Palestinian actions are retaliatory.
But again, this shows that you have no interest in peace, you just like the sound of your own thoughts. Other peoples have suffered far greater indignities than the Palestinians and did not respond with a sustained 60 year campaign of murder and death worship. And yet you find their actions a reasonable response to their great indignity, which as they say over and over,is simply that Jews exist, that we breathe. There is something seriously wrong with your morality. Have the Tibetans carried out terror attacks against the Chinese? Were the Jews terrorists in Europe and Russia?
All of problems in the West Bank would vanish, literally in one to two years if they would devote their resources to building a civil society rather than to create a death machine pointed at the Jewish state. Instead, virtually all of the money they have been given by the UN, Europe, and the US over decades has been stolen, they themselves train their people, their own children to be walking bombs. Yes, anger occurs, but a suicide bomber needs to be trained.
So you can stop masquerading. You have no interest in peace or the welfare of those living in the West Bank and Gaza. However you do support and feel their cause of killing Jews is justified. That says everything about you.
Here’s another question which you can’t answer. Can you list 10 Tools of Peace? Do you even know what I’m talking about? And how many of these Tools of Peace do those living in the West Bank and Gaza employ?
Have some more paint.
@naftali:
It’s sad that you don’t recognize advice. Instead, you retreat to paranoid delusions. I’m not out to get you, but I will tell you, you are on the road to ruin, with the tool of war.
Although it looks like the only tool you will need is a shovel, and it’s obvious you already have one, because you keep digging deeper into your despondency.
Don’t worry about me, I’ve got a plot and made my arrangements. That’s not meant to sound sinister. Chill out.
The problem is, WWJD? More than likely repeat history, if you had your way.
Didn’t answer my question again–didn’t list 10 Tools for Peace.
Let’s make it even easier, just to show that you have no interest at all in peace. Define peace.
So right now, you’re two for two–two questions asked, refused to answer both. See if you can get the basics–what is peace?
And, you realize, or probably not, that you aren’t even responding to a single word that I write. You’re just taking up space.
What am I retreating to? I’m asking you question that you don’t even understand or can’t answer. Sounds like you’re the one retreating.
@naftali:
I’ve decided to share more observation about the three major monotheistic belief systems and some advice before I stick a fork in this blog and call it done. Feel free to add more, if you think it will be enlightening.
Throughout the ages of Judaism and Islam believers weren’t given proper foreign relations skills, attested to by the abysmal record of the Torah and Koran. The Jews internalized peace and tried to maintain it amongst themselves, through forcibly resisting external influence, that was contrary to their belief system. Which was mostly everyone‘s belief. Then came the Muslims, and on the other hand, they not only internalized peace, much in the same way the Jews did, but they also proliferated it, through force. Though in some cases they tolerated other belief systems, as long as they dominated them.
Note, both beliefs have internal rebellion.
Now according to Christians, the Jews totally misinterpreted God, from the individual viewpoint. Muslims tried to blend the two together, only to infringe upon the rights of others. Eventually, with domination, succeeding generations accepted this belief. Trusting mere humans in power to control the masses through fear, torture, and death, and accepting the application of them (and in some ways, seemingly having a delightful frenzy in the enforcement) to those rebelling against the convenient laws that they themselves thought up. Evidently not spiritually pure enough to be entrusted with the responsibility of God’s intentions.
Christians represented God from the perspective of the individual, and left conversion up to the individual, as to whether or not they would receive God. The individual freedom of God is proliferated through peace. Needless to say, there are those that disagree with Christian influence. Rightly so, but in many cases not very morally so, in reference to God.
In essence, from the individual perspective, God is peace. It is us who are militant, against God’s peace, and in some cases, misrepresent and misinterpret the peace bestowed upon us.
In foretold revelation of Christianity, the true definition of peace, is God.
I know transition from the past mistakes is difficult, and were made by all three systems, and still are. Especially evident with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. One belief system going full force, with beliefs of the past, and the other still holding on to ways of the past. (ways of the right, described in this blog). They both and everyone else included, have to be aware, we all have ran out of places to retreat to. The earth has become to small for our diverse antagonizing conduct.
I just hope in the near future, we all realize the true meaning of peace, and have the sense to assimilate And in the process, are able shed the antagonistic ideological ways of the past. The ones that pit us one against the other, with violence and war.
Can we all as humans, ever peaceably achieve a true respect for each and everyone’s individual existence? At least be civil to one another?
One more post before I go and it is lyrics from a song by Gary Moore. Sort of fits the occasion:
Searching each day for the answers,
Watching our hopes disappear.
Set on a course for disaster,
Living our lives in fear.
Our leaders leave us in confusion.
For them there’s only one solution.
Caught in the fight for survival,
Trapped with our backs to the wall.
Are we just lambs to the slaughter,
Who wait for the axe to fall?
Our world is headed for destruction.
Our fate is in the hands of fools.
Shadows of the past,
Victims of the future.
How long will it last?
Victims of the future?
Into the verbal arena,
Armed with the lies that they tell.
They’re fighting for world domination,
Backed by the weapons of hell.
Is there no end to all this madness?
Is there no hope for us at all?
Victims of the future.
Yeah.
Well,um, gosh, that was quite the glossing of history, but that could be because of the medium–this isn’t the best forum for long essays, although you find it ideal for song lyrics.
But let me see if I understand your position. You think that the definition of peace is Gd, and Gd is Jesus. So, I guess the next step in your argument is that both the Muslims and the Jews should accept Jesus. Well, if that’s what you believe, that’s what you believe. Not much room for argument or discussion.
I think there are activities that naturally lead to peace, both individual and collective activities. Plus, I think peace needs a much more concrete definition–such as inner peace, peace within family and community. There are questions that need to be answered–is a person with repressed emotions at peace, questions like that.
And then there’s this statement that you made:
Then came the Muslims, and on the other hand, they not only internalized peace, much in the same way the Jews did, but they also proliferated it, through force.
I don’t see how a person can read that statement and conclude that the Muslims internalized peace.
But somehow you’ve done just that by condemning the Israeli response to the attacks by Hamas. I think, and have stated several things those living in Gaza and the West Bank can do, regardless of the decisions of the Israeli government, that will bring peace. And my proposals would definitely change the way that Israel responds to these quasi-governments and territories.
And yet despite my concrete proposals that would in fact bring peace to the region–you insist that I and other Jews believe in war.
I’m sorry, but it seems as though your logic begins and ends with accepting Jesus, with no logic in between. Not much room for discussion, is there?
And look how much electricity we’ve wasted.
Have you even paid attention to my previous comments? You have twisted my solution to “restore” peace, into an attack on my personal belief of what I believe a role model of peace should be. And as you commanded earlier, “Define peace”. I gave you “my” definition of peace. Obviously there are distinct differences in the word peace, pertaining to how it’s applied. In the written word of the Bible, Jesus did offer examples of peace. Maybe you’re ignorant to the fact or refuse to acknowledge it?
“I think, and have stated several things those living in Gaza and the West Bank can do, regardless of the decisions of the Israeli government, that will bring peace.”
So tell me if I’m right. There are nearly 300,000 Israeli settlers on the West Bank. And if so, do you think it’s fair for them to remain and for the Palestinians to continue living in a geographical confined and crowded space, and surrender the land that the Israelis settlers have laid claimed to? By the way, do the Palestinians have a construction industry, complete with vehicles and building supplies? Have they been permitted to acquire one? Or do the Israelis control the industry?
How about this source of information:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nawaranegm/gGxhmv
I’ll post an excerpt from it:
“Faced with no alternatives locally, building contractors turned abroad to look for men desperate to feed their families to offer them contracts for work in Israel. In Romania, Israeli contractors found a sizeable audience of men who could not make a living in their own country. The contractors made arrangements to pay for their passage to Israel, to pay their wages, to provide them with living quarters, and to pay for their return passage at the completion of the work. All the laborers worked according to a contract properly drawn up, so the arrangements looked acceptable.
Unfortunately for the men who came to work in Israel, soon they were to learn the meaning of what Israelis call “Israbluff”. Soon, they learned that the employers would confiscate their passports to prevent them from abandoning the project once they discovered that they would be living in conditions unfit for human habitation, that they would have meager quantities of food shoved into their quarters under doors or through bars, as if they were in a cage in a zoo, and that they would receive what was written in their contracts minus several onerous deductions about which the employers had not mentioned a word at the time the contracts were signed. Worse yet, they would soon learn that while the Israeli media would put them on display as subjects for stories, nobody would come to their assistance; either they were “those foreigners” or they were “stealing jobs from Israelis.” Either way, nobody cared enough to fight for the rights of these men.”
Please don’t give me your bull about how peace can be achieved.
You’re antagonizing ways are easy to expose.
Don’t forget to unplug your computer. Waste not, want not.