Israeli Policy in the Age of Islamism
Looked at in Islamic terms, Turkey joins Iran and Saudi Arabia as the major sources of Islamic “outreach” in the world. This has also meant attempts to influence “infidel” governments, encourage conversion to Islam, and impose Sharia law. These are ominous precursors to a potential Islamic wave. Yet reality is more complicated, given the relationships between these three countries:
- The Arabs, particularly the Saudis, view Turkey as ex-colonizer and overlord;
- Saudi Arabia and Iran vie as, respectively, the representative of Sunni, Arabic-based Islam and that of Shiite, Persian-rooted Islam. This is exacerbated by the bloody warfare between Sunni Iraq and Iran for decades. Iran has made it clear that it regards Saudi Arabia as a rival and enemy, in part because of the Saudi alliance with the United States;
- Iran and Turkey also face each other across a Sunni-Shiite divide, and Turkey has a historic dispute with Syria, Iran’s client.
Beyond this, the Saudis and most of the Arab world — excepting Syria and Hezbollah and Hamas — are mortified at the prospect of the Iranian bomb. The Saudi fear is quite legitimate, based on Iran’s pretensions to control the Middle East and its historic rivalry with the Arabs.
Since Iran has territorial conflicts with the Gulf states and is open about its desire to lead the world into Islam through the mechanism of its expanded sovereignty, the Saudis could not realistically join such an axis. More specifically, they prefer that an Israel that they despise lead an effort to set back Iran’s nuclear program rather than that program succeed.
For Israel, this presents massive problems and certain opportunities. To the extent that the Israeli-Arab conflict is still that, and not simply a subset of the war between Islam and the non-believers, the Arab problem with Iran is a chance to find some common ground. To the degree that Turkey “complements” Iran as a self-proclaimed champion (or ruler) of the entire region, the Arabs have a second non-Arab actor to fear — one with a past history of ruling over them with cruelty and disregard. In other words, the principle of “the enemy of my enemy” could apply here as well.
In theory, Israel has an opportunity for a practical rapprochement with all parts of the Arab world save Syria and Hezbollah-controlled/influenced Lebanon. Certainly Israel has demonstrated, often to its detriment, its desire for peace. The problem — aside from the quality of Israeli outreach — is the measure of Arab animosity to Israel. Using the Camp David Accords as a guide, hope is not the best guideline. The Egyptian government often deals with Israel in the nature of a man who must walk on hot coals to reach the other side of a pit. When Mubarak has an opportunity to embarrass Israel, he has done so (witness Egypt’s enthusiastic sponsoring of a recent UN resolution whose purpose is to disarm Israel’s suspected nuclear arsenal).
Saudi Arabia remains the linchpin of ideological Arab/Islamic hostility to Israel, despite Syrian and Hezbollah arsenals. Saudi Arabia is the real test. Given its fierce Wahhabist leanings, the union between Islam and the Saudi leadership, and the many “missions” of its native sons for jihad and Islam, it is nearly impossible to hold onto hope. Approximately 40% of all suicide bombers in Iraq have been Saudi. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis. The funding of extremist mosques and the efforts to convert Westerners are hardly indicative of a state that is ready to normalize and coexist with the hated Jewish “inferiors” in its backyard.
David Ben-Gurion is long-gone, and the region transformed since his passing. The real question that 2010 brings us is: Can any Muslim state ever be a normal state operating on rational, Western assumptions in its dealings with other states? The answer remains generally and persuasively no.
The main obstacle to Arab Israeli peace is Egypt. This would seem to be rather strange given that Egypt is the only Arab state to have signed and more or less honored a formal, international, and relatively binding peace treaty with Israel.
The peace between Israel and Egypt has never been warm or informal and many Middle East experts suggest that the only reason Egypt has not abrogated the treaty is because of American pressure and the foreign aid.
Be that as it may, Egypt uses it’s considerable influence in the international arena to torpedo any rapproachment between any Arab state and Israel. Indeed the hard line, uncompromising, and rejectionist stand taken by the Palestinians vis a vis Israel is seen by practically all Middle Eastern experts as largely the result of Egyptian pressure, influence, and meddling in Palestinian affairs.
However with the apparent demise of Hosni Mubarak there exists a real chance for a new and more liberal Egyptian government even if it headed by Mubarak’s son Gamal. Soon there will be an opening for the American government to use it’s considerable diplomatic and financial influence to help change Egyptian government Middle Eastern policies from their present obstructionist and destructive nature, to more positive and helpful ones.
Of course this largely depends on President Barack Obama whose diplomatic thinking sadly seems to rely on some sort of juvenile and shallow post colonial narrative while remaining almost entirely uninformed about foreign affairs in general and particularly the Middle East and Israel.
Still I suppose there is always hope and the slight chance that Barack Obama will come into puberty some time soon.
Well said! I also just found out that the Supreme Court now gives powers to all 50 states to arm themselves…like I needed their permission! As soon as people wake up and realize that the government works FOR you and that they do not work for themselves…Then maybe we can talk! I do not work for the UN, I do not work for the IMF and I do not work for BHO!
Fortunately Obama will not be POTUS much longer; I doubt he will get a second term. The next POTUS could bring substantial pressure on Turkey and reassure the region that we have Israel’s back, at least till the next leftist gets in, but Iran will get its nukes and Turkey will continue to shift towards the east and Islam due to the fact that Rumelian Turkey is being outbred by Anatolian Turkey. We will see how long Turkey lasts as a Democracy but whatever happens it needs to be dropped from NATO soon. Erdogan has promised Turkish naval protection for the “aid” convoys to Gaza. Wouldn’t that constitute an act of war? What are our obligations to Turkey should a real shooting war break out?
Ken, I would change your first sentence to this: The main obstacle to Arab Israeli peace is the plethora of Amalekites amongst Araby and Israel.
The West, of which Israel is a long standing charter member, has more in common with Martin Buber, than with Sayyad Qutb. So, we are dealing with more than what took place after 1948.
If blood has to be spilled, and copious amounts of it, to deal with the Amalekites, the blood shed is only the responsibility of the Amalekites.
Good points, Ken. I have been very skeptical of Egypt’s role, and have written about it in the past. Well, not ‘skeptical’ but sharing your opinion, more or less. The only thing we can say in Mubarak’s favor is that 1) he is required to make a certain amount of anti-Israel noise, whether he means it or not 2) he seems to be (sort of) cooperating with efforts to restrain Iran, mostly for his own reasons.
The only thing I would add is that Israeli leaders are also much at fault (the ‘Oslo generation’) for failing to ever confront Mubarak over his many anti-Israel actions and statements over the years. So, while he appears to want to help disarm Iran’s nukes, he simultaneously leads the charge in the UN to try to strip Israel of her theoretical nukes. And Bibi is silent…
Dear Larry,
You are correct that Israeli leaders have been far too tolerant of the often vicious Egyptian attacks on Israel. But Israeli leaders have occasionally confronted some of the more offensive anti Semitic and obviously unjust charges against Israel made by the Egyptian leadership. Unfortunately in every case the Israeli leader in question always apologizes for his outburst. Apparently, but in perhaps too many ways, the Egyptian Israeli peace accords are far too important for Israel to take any chance on losing, even when it means that Israeli leaders have to swallow a lot of crap from Mubarak and his government.
There is some hope, very little in fact, that a new Egyptian government will behave more responsibly and reasonably towards Israel, and take it’s role in the region more seriously. The hope is that Egypt will now see that the continuation of the Palestinian Israel conflict is doing no one any good, not Egypt and not the Arab world, that all the conflict does is increase Arab and Moslem radicalism, and keeps the Arab Islamic world locked in a Middle Ages conflict rather than progressing into the 21st century.
President Barack Obama could positively influence this development if he had the slightest understanding of the Middle East. Sadly for America and Israel, the immature, largely ignorant, and hugely inexperienced Mr. Obama has his own peculiar, almost cartoon vision of the area, one which is based on the silly and false Left wing narrative of Arabs as pitiful victims of the oppressive and violent European colonial bastion called Israel.
Barack Obama is now and has been for some time, part of the problem.
And he doesn’t even know it!
Ken, I used to have coffee a few times a month with an ex-Israeli from the Suez War generation. His opinion – and he is a secularist, a security hawk type – was that Israel needed to lean on Mubarak immediately over the smuggling tunnels back-when. I think the Egyptians have been facilitating this since before the al Aqsa Intifada, though I am not sure about that. I do know that it’s an excellent safety valve for Mubarak with his Muslim Brotherhood types, and that it proves the genuine hostility towards, and contempt for, Israel. But how is this possible in Israel when Barak is DM for Life, Peres is still cooking up deals in his dotage, and anyone to the right of (Laborized) Likud is a ‘fanatic’ to be mocked, or stifled?
Ken, I also have a question I wish to ask off-line. The editors/webmaster can feel free to forward my email to you if you want to get in touch.
I would be happy to hear from you or to write to you.
All the best,
Larry, was it you (I can’t remember the analyst) who told Prager that while Iran stares down at Israel, its gun points at the House of Saud. That commentary was insightful. Privately Iran claims that HOS was complicit in their inclusion in the ‘axis’
I don’t recall, Tommy, but a number of people have been saying for months or even years that Iran’s primary aim is subjugation of the Arab world. Humiliation or destruction of Israel would be a nice perk for them. They just want to control the ME and as much of the world as they can- the regime.
This is certainly a dangerous time for Israel, not least because it can no longer rely on its formerly most steadfast ally, the United States, as stated above. However, the danger is not just to Israel alone.
As I see it based on past history and present geopolitics, the salient points are as follows;
1. Unlike Jimmy Carter, who sought to distinguish between “moderate” Sunni Islam and “radical” Shia Islam, we must now accept that radical Islamism is a characteristic of Islam as a whole. This does not mean that all Muslims are radical Islamists, but it does mean that radicals can be found in all Muslim communities, regardless of sect. The danger lies in how much control of those communities the radicals have.
2. Since radical Islam seems to be in the ascendancy, modernization and moderation are “out of style” in the Muslim world, replaced by fundamentalism, reversionism, and frankly primitivism. In fact, the only things created after the 7th Century AD that seem to be “halal” are weapons, the more destructive the better, to be used for the purpose of jihad.
3. The pious protestation that “jihad is a peaceful, internal struggle for self-improvement” must now be seen as a lie. Peaceful self-improvement does not include threats of, or attempts at, mass murder and/or genocide, nor does it require car bombs or nuclear devices.
4. With Turkey, a regional military power, vying for control of a new “empire” with Iran, another such power, the probability of open warfare (as opposed to a continuation of the terrorist-activity-only variety) is higher. (Bear in mind that Islamists are quite as ready to kill fellow Muslims as they are to slay “infidels”.) If Iran is involved in a confrontation with Turkey over who is the biggest dog, that open warfare will almost certainly cross the nuclear threshold. And please note, both border Iraq, making it a likely “ground zero” in such a confrontation.
5. If such a confrontation occurs, we move into the realm of Wretchard’s 3 Conjectures; a place nobody in their right mind wants to be. The temptation on the Iranian mullahs’ part to “go all the way” will probably be too great for them to resist. The fact that Iran’s rulers also seem eager to go there speaks volumes about their mental state.
6. In the future, President Obama will be viewed as at least largely responsible for this mess, if not principally so, much as President Carter is justifiably held responsible for Iran and Afghanistan. Both are proof that in spite of pious delusions, not everybody thinks the same way, and when dealing with a foreign culture, assuming that their goals are the same as yours may be not merely dangerous, but potentially suicidal.
Uncomfortable facts, but reality tends to be so.
clear ether
eon
Certainly President Barack Obama and his weak, inconsistent, and vacillating foreign policy is largely responsible for the Iranians and the Turks running amok, and the very real fear and uncertainty rampant in the Arab world regarding both of these states. This is oddly enough because of his distancing himself from Israel and especially his cold and aloof diplomacy towards about the only reliable and loyal American ally in the Middle East, that is, Israel.
The Arabs never liked American support for Israel, but they certainly counted on it in what is a very uncertain world.
Now they see that Obama won’t stand by Israel, fair enought, but he is not standing by them either vis a vis Iran.
And Turkey, once a reliable, moderate, quasi Western, and secular state, now has a leadership which speaks in wild, unrestrained, fundamentalist Islamic rhetoric, has become a thorn in the side of NATO, and has even provoked Israel, a heretofore military ally, with a silly and unnecessary confrontation at sea. Indeed, Erdogan the Turkish leader, by his ranting speech and radical conduct has confirmed to the European Union that in retrospect they made the right choice in denying EU membership to Turkey.
So you see, it isn’t only Israel which is on the chopping block, although I will say that Israel has the most to fear, but it is the entire Middle East and Europe that Barack Obama’s inexperience, weakness, immaturity, and ignorance has endangered.
Worse it does not appear that President Barack Obama is even aware of the problems he has personally caused and thus cannot be counted on to correct them.
We need strong and consistent American leadership in the Middle East now; we are not likely to get it from Barack Obama.
Turkey’s atavistic return to the ways of Islam, as well as the lifting of a Chicago operator into the US presidency, are both repercussions of America’s loss of self-confidence, at a time when the Islamic world reasserts its own expansionist vision.
In short, America’s identity crisis translates into the exacerbation of Israel’s perennial existential crisis, and the menace of another upheaval in the Middle East. Sarah Palin, whose grasp of geopolitical matters is widely under-appreciated, got it right when she said that the American spirit needs to be lifted.
So, the perfect storm seems to be gathering, with America’s dropping Israel under the proverbial bus, and Islamism one more time on the ascendency, geopolitical tectonics are liquid again. All of it a consequence of the mindless pursuit of “stability”! Nominally, the POTUS is not a muslim, but culturally, he is, deception, axiomatic superiority and all. Can the disaster be averted? Who are the agents of sanity?
Larry: what do you mean that Iran was a secular government before the revolution. Iran was under a tyranny and a dictator named SHAH, whose
secret police SAVAK whom I am sure you know were trained by the murderous
Shit Bet agents.. not everyone who is on this site is a high school
drop out. Let’s get real
Iran under the Shah wasn’t a secular regime? What high school did you go to?
Get a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word “secular”.
Where did you get the idea that a dictatorship can’t be secular.
Regardless, as brutal as the Shah was, he was an angel compared to the govt that followed him.
Miriam, thanks for letting us know who you really are. The best I can say for you is that your spelling has improved the past few days.
I suspect the majority of the readers and posters here are college grads. Whether you are or not is irrelevant to me. What is relevant, and chilling, is your antipathy towards Israel and the Jewish people. Your ‘testimony’ and that of several other supposedly moderate Iranians I have known calls into profound question the frequent claim by Persian people that they really like the Jews, and have no problem with Israel. Hopefully, though, you and they are in a small minority.
I recommend you go to the Arutz Sheva site and listen to the radio program of Yishai Fleisher, and specifically listen to an interview done by Michael Medved with Melanie Phillips. It might help you learn a bit about yourself, who knows?
there tens of millions of people who can not spell and Einstien was one of them. the reader should read the comments and not the spelling..
you are insane to make such an assumption that I am anti jew or anti Israeli
you do not know me from apple.
I am assming you are not fond of this administration, so does that make you anti american. think about it.
On April 20, 2010 the top Syrian diplomat in the USA, Zouheir Jabbour, was called to the State Department. The reason reported to the public was, “The United States condemns in the strongest terms the transfer of any arms, and especially ballistic missile systems such as the SCUD, from Syria to Hizballah. ”
Keep this in mind as you read the following-
On June 13th we have a report from the Philadelphia Bulletin , ” The Middle East Newsline has confirmed that Syria has established an arsenal of extended-range Scud-class ballistic missiles along the border with Lebanon.
Western intelligence sources said the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad has overseen the accumulation of a huge missile arsenal along the Syrian border with Lebanon. They said the arsenal included Scud C and Scud D missiles, with ranges of 550 and 700 kilometers, respectively. “The Scuds are kept just inside Syrian territory to avoid an Israeli attack,” an intelligence source said.
The sources said the Syrian military has been training the Iranian-sponsored Hezbollah to operate the Scuds. They said some of the Scud missile infrastructure has been transferred to Lebanon’s eastern Bekaa Valley. ”
On June 15 the WSJ reported ” The State Department has dispatched a high-level diplomatic and trade mission to Syria, according to senior U.S. officials, marking the latest bid by the Obama administration to woo President Bashar al-Assad away from his strategic alliance with Iran.
The U.S. delegation comprises senior executives from some of America’s top technology companies, including Microsoft Corp., Dell Inc., Cisco Systems Inc. and Symantec Corp., according to the U.S. officials. All these companies’ businesses in Syria are constrained by U.S. sanctions. ”
My contention is that when , on April 20, the Syrian was called to State it had nothing to do with any complaints whatsoever. It was to give Assads top guy in the US direct access to Obama who, with a wink and a nod, sold Israel out. After all why are the Syrians being rewarded with new economic ties if they are doing exactly what the US complained about?
Now April 20 is an interesting day to make a deal with the devil.
If what I assumed to have happened did indeed occur then millions of Jews were put at risk. I think it would be interesting to know just what time of day the meeting at State, or the White House, took place.
At 10PM central time on April 20 the Deepwater Horizon caught fire.
Obama should have known better than to sell out the Jews on April 20.
That day, as any student of history knows, is Hitlers birthday.
Rancher: I went to Kharazmi high school in norther Tehran, I was born and raised there
and I fought the Shah regime as much as I could. so no it was not
secular….
It wasn’t secular because you fought against it?
You do know they have this invention called a dictionary? You can use it to look up the meaning of words.
so Miriam the SHAH is gone now- and you got your wish granted- why don’t you live in that ISLAMIC REVOLUTION you fought for?
I bet you live in USa or EU anyplace else other than the Islamic paradise of IRAN today, you know, the one you fought for.
Miriam: Iran is currently led by theocratic fascists who believe in gender aparteid, death for apostasy and bahaiism, more polygamy and underage marriage, limit access to office to those who pass the theocratic standards of the guardian councils, and impose repressive veiling through the use of state sponsored morality police. Now, the shah may have been a ruthless dictator, but he wasn’t an islamic fundamentalist who believed in forced veilng with genocidal designs on the non-muslim world.
A big game changer over the next five years is going to revolve around the huge gas and oil fields recently discovered off the coasts of Israel and Lebanon. Because of the embargo by the arab countries these imports are expensive.
Israel has always been energy dependant and the reserves are big enough to end that, at least for some time. Already threats are going back and forth between Israel and Lebanon over the reserves. Israel will get there first and should be pumping gas very soon now. How this will work out nobody knows, probably both countries will have wells. The field extends to Cyprus and Israel has reportedly already made a deal with them.
This also may impact on Israels other major problem; water. More desalination plants can be built but they are energy hogs.
Economy is everything, and that often gets overlooked in these discussions of history and politics. Israel, with few natural resources has built a high-tech economy, but it still needs energy and water. Israel will have lots of “friends” when it becomes economically advantageous to be a friend, even if politics makes it a discrete back-door arrangement.
omar, markthegreat, rancher and Ishiha62:
I hate the Iranian government. they came to power in 1979. there were a lot of struggles against the Shah starting in 1956…. I was a part of tha t sruggle in 1976… way before the revolution and if it was not to the Shah these ahole…… ayatollaha would not be around today. I was here when the revulotion broke out and I was never a fan of those dooshes.. so let’s not go there
my spelling has nothing to do with anything. you are getting the message
So you are partly responsible for the ayatollah. No wonder you are so full of self hate.
I didn’t question your spelling, I questioned your misuse of the term “secular”.
Miriam – why don’t you run spellcheck on your postings and then cut-and-paste them in?
so markthegreat: how am I partly responsible? because one dictator replaced the other? on one new it was going to be like this… the entire peopleyou took the hostage for a year and half, realized how f…up everything is and
they are sitting in jail…our expirience with democracy is very limited.
But I can tell you this, that I am 52 years old and by the time I turn 60 these a holes are not going to be there and you will see a much more gentler
and democratic government, just that you know, the Iranian people hate Hammas and Hezbollah and they despise our government for supporing them.. hopefully they too will be gone
aaaahh Miriam I have met many “Persians” who fled the Revolution and none of them are hostile to Jews and Israel as you are. You say Iran people do not support Hamas and Hezzboliars yet you spout all the same rhetoric they do- So what you say is contradictory-
I am sorry for you, a very confused and obviously hurting angry person- who chooses to hate blame for everyone but herself, who helped put these wheels in motion- I know many Cubans who also “did not know” supporting Leftist revolution against the “dictator” would bring worse regime to power- but they do not still spout Castroism- they learned their lesson- the also do not hate and despise the USA who took them in, gave refuge and living, freedom, to them
Miriam:
The reason most semi-secular leaders in the islamic world are so brutal, is because they are constantly under assault from groups of fundamentalist muslims who attack the government, assault the more moderate (or non-muslim) citizenry, and try to institute a more “pure” islamic state through violence and blackmail (See Egypt, Somalia,Iraq, Pakistan, S.A., Afghanistan, West Bank). The other side of the coin in this dance is the tendency among more reasonable governments to attempt to coopt the islamic dirt bags by ceding territory to them (at the expense of citizens, many women among them, who will have to endure their rule; See Mindanao semi-autonomous and Aceh province)- or becoming more brutally islamified themselves (Pakistan). Maybe the islamic world can’t HAVE truly civil governance until these dark currents are acknowledged and addressed. (In which case, the best thing we can do is isolate the islamic world and contain the damage).
Radical and Extremist Militant Islam known today to most in the west where created by the same west (Ask the CIA, Jimmy Carter, and Brezy). How very enlightening to know…….HE WHO KILLS BY THE SWORD WILL BE DESTROYED BY IT…..(Tell that to our politicians and military men to stop arming poor and illiterate muslim men to fight enemies of the west).
We all know mossad created HAMAS to prevent a two state solution and create opposition for Arafat’s PLO (Pls you can do an objective research on the internet). We also know that western one sidedness and diplomatic failures are responsible for anti-Ataturk policies of the new so called Islamic Turkey. (OK we all do mistakes and mis-calculate sometimes)
When I think of The World Trade Centre 7 (Seven), I realise the west are not telling themselves the truth of what happened on that faithful day 9/11, and the shameful events that have followed all over the ME. What about allegations of WMD in Iraq?. We need to pray for wisdom.
What will the activities of 50+ european and western nations 1000′s of kilometres away from their countries, in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan and soon Iran amount to in your conscience?
1) Violence 2) Genocide 3) Terrorism, and if 9/11 was an inside job (4) Satanic and deceptive
OR Good Guys Vs Bad Guys, Police Vs Thiefs, Cowboys Vs Indians… (Obessessed Game Mentalities).
Agreed, we need GOD’s wisdom.
TWO WRONGS WILL NEVER MAKE IT RIGHT….if we all understand the truth of this statement, calling muslims or christians radical or extremist or whatever is not helping us arrive at a wise solution devoid of prejudice. We all know THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH, not the strong, mighty and arrogant. The global village affords us the opportunity to live in peace and also the misuse will amount to utter destruction which we are capable of several times over.
A WORD IS ENOUGH FOR THE WISE. The west has soooooo much to loose if they allow things continue the way they are. The ‘so called’ enemies of the west, the ones in caves and holes with their women wrapped up in sack clothes, have nothing to loose than what has been lost already.
Matthew – You exhibit the classic paranoia that typifies so much of the islamic world and is one of the clearest signs of its internal sickness and immaturity. For this reason, I hesitate to engage you in a conversation, but here goes. . . . The Salafi-Deobandi axis that blankets the near east from SA over across Afghanistan and Pakistan has existed for a very long time – longer, in fact, than the United States. Fundamentalist islam attracts adherents among muslims because it most closely mirrors islam as lived and preached by Mohammad, and the theology that supports that interpretation has existed for a millenium . . . or do you suggest that muslims who identify with the Muslim Brotherhood, Hizbuttahrir, Hamas, LeT, Al Shabab, the Taliban, Abu Saif (all of whom are fighting to impose islamic law) are so easily manipulated? Please learn more about your faith – at this point, a non-apologetic source is imperative. Try Andrew Bostom, Ibn Warraq, Spencer, heck, even Tawfik Hamid (the “Making of a Jihadists Mind” – article) or Ed Husain or “the Looming Tower” would help. For some quick deprogramming, how ’bout Stephen Coughlin’s treatise on islamic law called “To Our Great Detriment,” or the Freedom House Report entitled “Saudi Hate Literature Invades Americn Mosques” or “The Third Jihad” or “undercover Mosque” and “Undercover Mosque: The Return (I think you can still find it on Liveleak). . . . Matthew, the monsters that Islam has spawned are NOT ideological orphans created by the Jooos and Americans. They have deep roots in islamic law and history – albeit, the have grown more influential because of gulf oil money and the regions recent usefulness as butress against communist Russia.
Omar, the muslims also claim the west have equal stereotypes. The crusades, the jesuits, the world wars,the inquisitions, the holocaust, slave trade, Nuclear weaponry, Apartheid, Piracy, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Guatanamo, are all these inspired by the bible and christian values, fundamentalist or not.
You have not understood me.
I repeat once again, Bcos of such biased attitudes the west is about to give up a mountain of gold for worthless stones. The solution is BALANCE and God Fearing western leadership.
If the muslim world and people are sick and immature in their views and interpretation of the motives of the west, why dont you listen to them, treat them and educate and not BOMB,DEMONISE, CHEAT, RIDDICULE them. You can’t take that either.
Trillions of dollars of your money already wasted in Afghanistan would have educated the muslim civilisation several folds over. The technology to achieve that is AVAILABLE.
TWO WRONGS WILL NEVER MAKE IT RIGHT….if we all understand the truth of this statement, calling muslims or christians radical or extremist or whatever is not helping us arrive at a wise solution devoid of prejudice. We all know THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH, not the strong, mighty and arrogant. The global village affords us the opportunity to live in peace and also the misuse will amount to utter destruction which we are capable of several times over.
A WORD IS ENOUGH FOR THE WISE. The west has soooooo much to loose if they allow things continue the way they are. The ’so called’ enemies of the west, the ones in caves and holes with their women wrapped up in sack clothes, have nothing to loose than what has been lost already.
Matthew – If free elections and girls schools and a free press and reformers and non-muslims and heterdox muslims are under constant terrorist threat, and the political will does not exist within the islamic community itself to kill those muslims who threaten them – out of fear or loyalty or whatever – from whence will the change come? All I know is, when the agents of “change” arrive, they’d better be armed, organised and ready, or they will be slaughtered. Sadly, the muslims who live in such places usually believe in things like gender aparteid, islamic supremacism, shariah and death to apostates and blasphemers. Therein lies the problem.
Here is some material about slavery that you may find illuminating:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/how-islam-breathed-new-life-into-slavery-and-the-slave-trade-in-europe.html
And sadly, the most virulent practitioners of aparteid today are muslims who torment/isolate their women and persecute and kill non-muslims wherever they have the ability and numbers to do so, at this point leaving the entire middle east judenrein (after stealing their goods and businesses of course) and very nearly “christianrein” as well . . . Are you aware of what has happened and is happening to non-muslims (and hereodox muslims) in Pakistan, Turkey, Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria . . . ? This is what life is like for coptic girls (and hindu girls as well in many places) who dare to venture out in their own communities – and always and everywhere this happens with the support, tacit or overt, of their own islamic governments and police:
http://continentalnews.net/christian-news/after-failed-attempt-of-forced-islamization-egyptian-christian-family-under-siege-1046.html
Finally, you are aware that “Christians” died by the millions trying to stop Hitler, right? My own Grandfather among them? So WHO among the muslims will stand up against the new nazism that has made “Mein Kampf” a best selling book in Turkey, that saturates virtually every sphere of the islamic world with jew hatred, and is causing jews to now flee Sweden and France and the Netherlands and virtually everywhere else the “new nazis” immigrate in large numbers? What do you suppose will happen to those brave souls who object?
http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/19835/In_Bangladesh,_Support_For_Israel_Sparks_Persecution.html
Here is a lecture by VDH. It is VERY GOOD and worthwhile irrespective of our quarrel here. I suspect you will also agree with him on many points:
http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=15516
Omar, you have nothing for me and the world. God bless you.
Matthew:
Here is a muslim reformer who believes in fruitful engagement and education:
http://www.currenttrends.org/research/detail/the-development-of-a-jihadists-mind
What do you think of his experiences within the muslim community and his other critiques?
Omar, you have nothing for me and humanity according to your response. God bless you.
Way to engage the issues, Matthew! You’re religion has apparently been high-jacked by Ur-fascists from Saudi Arabia, and yet everyone else – but most especially folks like me – appear to be “The Problem.”
Here’s a very scholarly article by Roger Scruton about how islam lacks a capacity for forgiveness, irony and self-examination. . . . Think it might apply?
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_1_the-west.html