Israeli-Palestinian Direct Talks Will Lead Directly to Failure
And what that real big picture tells us is that it is time to cease the useless and increasingly bloody parlor game that goes by the name of a “peace process,” a “road map” to nowhere. It is time to solve the political and military stalemate from which Israel suffers and will continue to suffer by letting it be known that, in the event of another provocation, it will not hesitate to administer an all-out, crushing military defeat upon its enemies, as it should have done during the Lebanon war of 2006 and Operation Cast Lead in Gaza in 2008. For Israel’s enemies have their own big picture, the annihilation of Israel, whether in a “single storm,” as Iran has promised, or by stages and slices, the strategy of the Palestinian Authority carried over from the days of Yasser Arafat.
What goes by the name of “Peace Now” is only an evasive sobriquet for War Later. Hamas and Hezbollah must and can be neutralized sooner rather than later, for the longer that reckoning is put off, the more devastating the consequences will be for Israel. As for the West Bank, Israel must ensure that it retains the necessary strategic depth and establishes an armed presence on the West Bank hill terrain, the “prominent high ground” that, following the Six Day War, the American chiefs of staff agreed Israel should control for defensive purposes. And as for Jerusalem, it must remain the indivisible Jewish capital, for solid historical and political reasons. Ramallah, by all accounts a thriving city, is a good enough Palestinian capital.
The time to act with fortitude and determination is now and the stage is not in Washington. Naturally, the temptation will be to fall back on geopolitical considerations, on the necessity of not alienating the United States — which means Barack Obama, a hostile administration, and the nefarious State Department, aka Foggy Bottom — and on the argument that negotiations and concessions actually reduce the number of casualties or, in other words, that the big picture is to the advantage of the little portrait.
But Menachem Begin did not genuflect to the U.S. or crawl abjectly before the “international community,” and as a result, despite setbacks, achieved more than any of his successors in the political arena. He negotiated from a position of strength, without which the peace agreement with Egypt would never have come to pass. The Oslo Accords that led to great Israeli suffering, and Bill Clinton’s Camp David fiasco, should serve as an object lesson to anyone who still credulously maintains that peace in the Middle East can be brokered in a spirit of gentlemanly accommodation, sacrificial deference on the part of the Israelis, and handshakes on the White House lawn. Peace will come only — should it ever come — in the wake of a massive Arab defeat or, in the best case scenario, if the Palestinians, including Hamas, as well as Hezbollah, truly understand that what is on the table is not a few lukewarm dishes presumably shared by Israel and the Palestinians but their very existence. They must be brought to realize that continuing to serve as Iran’s sock puppets will lead to neither prosperity nor conquest but to their destruction. As I say, this is a best case scenario.
And as it should go without saying, Prime Minister Netanyahu must revive in himself the spirit of Ze’ev Jabotinsky, the practical, hard-headed, and unwavering patriot who helped bring a militarily strong Jewish state into being. Netanyahu must recognize that no Israeli concessions will satisfy the insatiable appetite of the “international community” or the Palestinians, who will always clamor for more until the country becomes the rump state proposed by the Peel Commission of 1936-37 and eventually ceases to exist as an independent Jewish state altogether. Israel must project power, not weakness. In a region which understands only sinew and nerve, tenacity and violence, Israel has no choice but to act like the strong horse, not like a spavined mare.
Plainly, these are not pleasant options I am proposing, but it is not as if Israel is blessed with a variety of agreeable choices. While the negotiators dither and compromise, while officials shuttle back and forth between the diverse capitals with fantasy-driven proposals, and while ever more pressure is brought to bear upon Israel to diminish its chances for survival, another Israeli is shot here, another family is obliterated there, another soldier is kidnapped in the Negev or killed by a sniper on Israeli soil near the Lebanese border. To quote Kurt Vonnegut from Slaughterhouse-Five, “so it goes.” The cameo casualties keep piling up.
Whether one likes it or not, the fact is that the diplomatic canvas as it is currently being painted is a snare and a deception, and a prohibitively costly one at that. The prime minister must flex his muscles, resolutely further the country’s material and security interests, and demand substantial concessions from the Palestinians if they are candidly devoted to peace rather than, as was the case with his predecessors Ariel Sharon, Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, offer to give up the store in pursuit of a will o’ the wisp. He must not flinch from making it clear to all that he is prepared to react immediately and with force majeure to the next Kassam or Grad, the next mortar shell, the next suicide bombing, the next kidnapping, the next stabbing, the next drive-by shooting of civilians, the next sniper who fires on an Israeli soldier trimming a bush, the next traumatized child in Sderot or Ashkelon, the next flotilla, the next guerrilla intrusion from Gaza. Otherwise, for every next there will be another next.
The prime minister of Israel is responsible for every Israeli citizen. For this reason, he must toughen up and fix his gaze on the smaller portraits which, when all is said and done, constitute the big picture.
The well worn saying, no good deed goes unpunished, applies in spades when it comes to Israeli/PA ‘peace’ talks.
Under normal paradigms, when 2 parties enter into negotiations, both are expecting parity of results. However, when it comes to Jews and Muslims/Arabs, there is NO such animal.Never has been, Never will be.
Many causes are at play, but the chief obstacle to parity is core Islamic doctrine-of which Muslim/Arab leaders subscribe, even if secular-does NOT allow parity with infidels, let alone with Jews.
It is a well known Islamic tenet that hudnas, garnered via taquiya, is the path sanctioned under Islamic law. Therefore, even IF Jews are ‘promised’ peace, there is NO way that said peace will be adhered to.
Moreover, since the conflict between Hamas & the PA is merely a tactical one, mixed in with intra-Arab jockeying for power, there is little daylight between them regarding Israel’s fate.Whereas Hamas sees NO point in pretending to want anything but war, the PA/Fatah decided, that for the time being this is their best avenue-a tactic devised by Arafat, coined the ‘salami’ tactic, learned under the tutelage of his KGB handlers.
In fact, as recently as last week, Israel’s much ballyhooed ‘peace partner’ extolled another martyr/ Jew-killer from the PA territories as a hero to emulate.Huh and duh??
The urgent question becomes-why do Israel’s leaders go along with this death charade, which ALWAYS leads to Jewish blood letting?Truth be told, Israel’s ruling leftists-the Likud in its essence is just as appeasement oriented as the so called left parties-are infected with appeasement syndrome,more aptly termed, the Oslo Syndrome, Delusions of a People Under Siege.Further, many are bought and paid for by Washington power brokers(Washington ALWAYS meddles in our domestic politics)and are loathe to cross their dictates.
Suffice it to say, Peres told the truth when he boldly stated at the beginning of the first Oslo Peace/Death process, that ‘sacrifices for peace’ were worth the cost if their Jewish blood brings a ‘solution’ to the conflict. In other words, Jewish blood is so cheap, that even if rational thought obviates that ‘peace’ with the PA Arabs is nothing more than a charade, the price paid in mostly ‘settler’ blood will have been worth it, since geopolitics demands it to be so.
We are dealing with a very cynical and evil Israeli ruling elite, not evil towards the enemy, but towards their own Jewish citizens.
Those who are merciful to the cruel, end up cruel to the merciful.Absolutely.
I’m laughing, black humour to be sure. Israel’s leaders? What a joke. We have no leaders, just crap politicians. Our whole political system is dysfunctional, rotten to the core. Our political system only produces mediocre hacks at best. The rest are just parasites, self-serving, self-important jerks. They don’t give a damn about us.
What normal country would have Shimon Peres as president given his past performance? Better yet, what sane country would have Ehud Barak as Defense Minister?
That’s fine advice you’re giving us but you can’t possibly believe any Israeli politician is listening?
Terry and Adina, I think we need to hold out hope. Even in the midst of evidence that the elites are corrupt and selfish, they are not completely without feeling for the average Israeli. Nor are they completely monolithic. I think the presence of Yaalon, Begin Jr and others in the gov’t is not merely a token of the right wing, or a sop thrown the right wing by Bibi. They are also a lever that Bibi can use against the elites – if he chooses.
The issue comes down to Bibi, his choices and characters. He can be a manipulated ‘toy’ (Clinton’s term for Barak), or he can stand and lead despite the presence(s) of Barak, Peres etc. At the moment, his Premiership can be seen as proof of the neutering effects of those elites. It is also true that he had to play the game to reach his current position, but he is free – if he is ‘spiritually’ and spiritually strong enough – to make another choice. Both of you have decided what his choice is. I am still holding out some hope.
Larry, when I read the Israeli media, I lose all hope. The sheer stupidity, the misrepresentations, the foolish statements from Israeli politicians, & the off-the-wall op-eds just freak me out. I rationalized Netanyahu’s actions, I told myself he must have a strategy (as in Barry Rubin’s article), he was being clever, out-manouevering Obama. But, I always had nagging doubts, never really trusted Netanyahu. I couldn’t even bring myself to vote for him, afraid he’d become an appeaser.
The events of the last few days, especially the non-reaction to the murder of those four Israelis, put an end to any hope I still had.
Larry in the Silicon.
But, if my interpretation of Netanyahu is mistaken, he is the best actor I have ever seen, he should get an Oscar for the best performance. I’ve used strategies like that in business, choke an adversary with concessions & goodwill, giving enough rope for a hanging, but in the meantime, I made strategic changes so that when the time came, I could act decisively. I just don’t see the necessary strategic moves.
Terry, it takes faith to be Jewish and to live in Israel. It is also a place where the collective mood swings a lot and affects individuals. I am not a fan of Bibi Netanyahu in particular; I just want to recognize from where he has come. At a certain point, he made a decision to continue in politics. That is, after his first term, during which he was battered mercilessly by the Israeli media and by Bill Clinton, he could have left. I don’t believe, ultimately, that he is ‘owned’ by Peres or Barak, though certainly he is not free. Anyhow, we have to recognize that these folks all need to be sharks; it’s politics. What to do? If he deals with Iran – and it is the fear and knowledge that he probably will that makes some of our Iranian friends nuts – then his tenure will be on the road to salvage. Will it make up for the pain of the family and friends of those slaughtered near Hebron? No. That’s why it’s politics. It does stink always from the point of view of those run over by larger forces.
P.S. I wish I could have been a businessman like you. Maybe next time?
Larry, it was predictable that there would be terrorist attacks when talks began. And, while of course, nothing can make up for the loss to family & friends, this is not the reason why action should be taken. Being predictable, a several plans of action should have been ready. Evidently, there were no plans. And, because terrorist attacks were predictable, the parties involved should have been warned that there would be a reaction. Instead, we got the ”sacrifices for peace” BS –
There are two reasons why we should have taken action. One, anything Hamas does must be immediately punished, this to establish some kind of deterrence. Second, Abbas must be put in a position where he must publically accept that we have a right to self-defense. I would add that US officials must also accept that our options are not limited, that we will react even if it risks ending the talks. We must take every opportunity to demonstrate that we will not be bullied. To negotiate successfully, an adversary (both the Arabs & Obama) must be afraid that you will walk out.
Larry faith is a good thing, but faith in this round of “peace” talks is misplaced. Israel and the Palestinians did not ask for help. Both sides are there because the USA asked, and foreign aid may be tied to attendance.
Larry, wish I had some ‘faith’ in Bibi, but the odds are not looking too good.He caved at Wye, what makes us think he will stand strong now?
Moreover, since I read the Hebrew papers too, and listen to the Israeli newscasters, it is hard to fathom that our PM will stay the Zionist course.
IF not for the fact that Sharon, a supposed right winger and strong military man to boot,did not prove himself capable of being a destroyer of Jewish communities, as opposed to a protector, I may still have some hope.
Nevertheless, the so called ‘settlers’ will not go quietly into the night like during the destruction of Gush Katif.This is very important to know, because without their cooperation to be good little boys and girls, the odds of a civil war are high.
Now, if this is the leftist leadership’s game plan, to cause grave harm to the right wing, then THAT is another story.
Talk is cheap. Taking out Iran is job one. After that the Paleostinians are small potatoes. Once and for all.
KAHANE WAS RIGHT
and of course Israel made him into a criminal– the suidical leftists are in charge in Israel as they are here in USA- fatal mistakes will be made now- fatal for Israel and fatal for the world- for people like us who KNOW that “peace” is jsut a euphemism for destory Israel piece by piece, it is hard to watch..to KNOW you are right and yet be whipped publicy for saying so, while rounfd the world sheiks of murder and death are being wined and dined, their bloodly fantasies encouraged and feted………….
There will be damage done to Israels cause as Senate investigations are declassified regarding funds to bribe American Media since the 60′s, extending into modern times and including the Invasion or Iraq and now the Situation with Iran.
How this will affect foreign Policy is not yet understood, but it will be affected. it is ammunition for the forces against Israel and US foreign aid to Israel, as it appears some foreign funds came back to influence American Media outlets.
Are you paid by the SVR or just a spontaneous Jew-hater?
How do you mean spontaneous, Larry? Alex is a guy obsessed with Jews and Jewish affairs in order to feed his jew-hatred. He’s compulsive. Spontenaity doesn’t enter into it.
R. Crumb’s comics used to feature a character called the Snoyd from Sheboygen. A snoyd in Crumb’s lexicon was a booger who lived in assholes. Alex is a specialized snoid who lives in Jewish assholes.
Ignore him and he won’t become a pain.
David…perfect way to describe Alex the “snoid” and he transforms from booger to BS when he speaks.
You’re a funny man, David. There are so many like him. They seem to pop up in many places. You’re right.
You mean the Israelis funded the dinosaur media like CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, CNN, NPR, the NY Times, and many others too numerous to name, to oppose the Iraq war?
Your contention is nonsensical on the face of it. Go tell the nurse you’re done with your computer and ready for your tapioca.
All unimpeachably true — but to one who has rejected as factual the Palestinians’ determination to destroy Israel, it’s unacceptable.
That’s the stumbling block that prevents so many in the West from seeing the “peace process” for what it is. They decline to read the HAMAS Charter, or the English translations of Arabic leaders’ speeches in Arabic, provided by MEMRI. They refuse direct examination of the core documents of Islam, which explicitly teach Muslims that the Jews are to be exterminated. And of course, they shut their eyes to the asymmetry between the accomplishments and behaviors of Israel, and the accomplishments and behaviors of the irredentists in the Palestinian zones.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
“But Menachem Begin did not genuflect to the U.S. or crawl abjectly before the “international community,” and as a result achieved far more than any of his successors in the political arena. He negotiated from a position of strength, without which the peace agreement with Egypt would never have come to pass.”
This is the only way to negotiate with anyone, through a position of strength, as Ronald Reagan did with the Soviets. Obama and his toadies actually believe that if your unilaterally disarm, your enemies will do the same thing. What nonsense. That’s why the Iranians, the North Koreans, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Russians, and the Chinese laugh at Obama. They see him as a naive fool and will certainly take advantage of both him and the situation.
But the Israelis don’t have the luxury of being either naive or wrong. When you are literally surrounded by people who want to kill you and wipe you off the map, then you have to be tough and can only negotiate from a position of strength. Netanyahu understands this, but Obama does not, and Obama is the one pressuring the Israelis to make a deal, any deal, that will end this conflict regardless of how much it damages Israel’s security. Obama should be ashamed of himself for throwing Israel under the bus this way just to achieve his own goals (which are certainly not the same as Israel’s goals).
I hope Israel does not give in. When Begin negotiated with Sadat, he did not have a heavily armed Hamas or Hezbollah to contend with. Netanyahu does, along with the homicidal Iranians and Syrians. So I hope Netanyahu does not cave in to Obama’s demands, because a bad peace will be far worse for Israel than a protracted stalemate.
Is this a lost battle?
In Israel, New York, Europe and elsewhere?
Here:
“Islamization of Paris, a Warning to the West” – CBN news:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/August/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West/
Exactly the same process can be seen at Riverside Drive and Seventy-second street in Mike Bloomberg’s New York at midday on any Friday.
Politicians and the police here in New York as in Paris are an essential part of the problem not the solution.
The right of the ordinary citizen to bear arms has never been more important.
Alceste
got to correct the impression
“apparently CBM made their video out of documents that this anti-islam militant guy filmed:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ciceropicas
I have seen these videos a few month ago on a mililitant blog too
from CBN:
“It says people have the right to share any belief they want, any religion,” Lepante explained. “But they have to practice at home or in the mosque, synagogues, churches and so on.”
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/August/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West/
precisely Friday is like sunday for the Christians, and this is why these parisian Muslims are out in the street, contrary to it is said average Parisians don’t complain, escpecially in the Barbes quater (where are situated the facts), which is majoritarly a immigraton quater.
I don’t support this report, cuz Muslims need a cult place for their “sunday” pray too. They squat a street for a few hours in order that they would be listened by the Mayor of Paris, contrary to what the french guy say, such a decision is not a state affair, but a local’s. The problem is that this quater is supopulated, and it is difficult to find a available place to construct a Mosquee, which is the best solution, for one can control what the imans say in a official cult place.
this is a “evangelist” report aiming at being a hammering argument in the context of the discussions for the Manhattan Mosquee. The images are manipulated for their agenda, and don’t explain the Paris context, but illustrate their purpose”
Another great article David. One needs to be able to lie to oneself with great skill to see it any other way.
I agree these talks will lead to failure. The one people that want these talks are the people in the current Administration here. The same thing has happened with almost every Administration at least since that Village Idiot Carter. If these talks were started by the Saudis of Jordan maybe they would move forward. I’d bet what is left of my 401k that this current round of talks will not bare fruit.
There is no incentive for the Palestinians to negotiate a peace while their friend Obama is in the White House. They smell victory.
BHO is an intellectual nothing. Smile at him. Nod with him. Soothe his tender ego. They will be writing books about his narcism for decades. Dp you think the rest of the world can’t read him by now?
I just hope Netanyahu doesn’t give an inch to Obama the Jew hater for “peace.”
I’m thinking he already has, by showing up.
Talk is cheap.
Every time Israel makes consessions it is taken for weakness by the unreasonable sons of Ismael , and more violence insues . Not to worry little Judah , though trouble will come , Jerusalem the city of the Great King ( not Mohammed ) will not always be trodden underfoot by the the unreasonable . The eyes of Israels assembled enemies will soon consume away in their sockets .
They are not the sons of Ismael, they are the sons of his niece Amalek.
Israel need to remember what is the command given for Amalek.
It is not a racial or ethnic thing, it is to not spare who will kill you only for spite.
Excellent blog Mr. Solway!
I agree completely with all you put forth. But the Israelis should remember that as a country we stand behind them, always have,always will. Obama is a bad accident and will pass away. America will eventually produce a tough leader who will take up the cudgel and eradicate Islam. This is a 1400 year war between Islam and Western civilization. Islam must be eradicated as it exists today. I would like to see the Middle East return to its Jewish/Christian roots. Even if Israel is attacked/occupied/whatever horrible result, the American people will see that it is resurrected. I am not saying that this will be a cheap or quick struggle, but the butcher’s bill will have to be paid. And it will be paid as Western Civilization has always done. Have more faith in our culture!
You are right. Ultimately, Islam is the enemy, including of many decent people called Muslims. It is a source of internal and external terror and coercion, the likes of which the world may not have known before. At least 14 centuries of institutionalized expansion of the beliefs of a sorely misnamed ‘prophet’ – this includes Iran, and all the tortured souls there who are seeking relief from the Shiite manifestation of Islam. May all the dhimmis and ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ types who are in thrall to Islam and its manifestations like Ahmedinejad and Nasrallah wake up, stop hating themselves and stop hating those of us who seek their release from bondage.
Your response to the reality of the conflict and peace talks is honest…in fact quite excellent!
“If the peace talks fail, they fail; if Israel surrenders to Palestinian demands, Israel fails.”
So, either things do not improve for Israel or they get worse. In either case, the precedent wins. “If things do not improve for Israel, obama/arabs are happy. If things get worse for Israel, obama/arabs are happy.” No downside for the wannabe POTUS.
I disagree with this way of framing the discussion.
We must look at the whole strategy of islam if we want to discuss “what to do”.
The muslims are actually following the same strategy attempted by the USSR, with the difference that the USSR could be pushed back by the MAD option: the muslims are lighting fires in every corner of the world and each apparently local conflict whose flames they fan is only ONE MORE STEP in a global strategy of conquest.
Look at the map (I don’t even try to give a complete list):
Kashmir, Kosovo, South-East Asia/Pacific, Pakistan/India in general, the conflicts in the former soviet states, migration to Europe and continually stepped up requests for more “rights”, and even the provocation of the Ground Zero mosque:
everything tells us that what the muslims want is an unending list of conflicts that in turn become “reasons” for terrorism and attacks worldwide.
“Peace talks” are a joke when seen in this strategic background.
If the West had leaders, instead of appeasers or traitors, the West would quench all these fires with overwhelming force and compel the muslim strategist to rethink their plans.
Discussing of peace in Israel while hamas is planning further attacks means SUBMITTING to the muslim strategy, not in Israel only, but worldwide.
It’s a world war, and if we fail to understand it… the muslims will keep extending the fronts of it.
We’ve, all of us, been through these “talking” machinations uninterrupted since, say, at least 1950, using a rounded year-figure. Old Principals get defeated in democratic elections…or murdered…depending on the country, and new ones take their still warm chairs. On and on.
I agree with the idea that Israel should present their Islamic/Arab/Muslim enemies with the firm ultimatum…”Cease your terrorism AND taqiyya, as of tomorrow (insert a date) or face our overwhelming military strength, harnessed and curtailed so far to our regret.”
…and America should back up Israel and tell the rest of the world to “get stuffed”….to use a nifty vernacular I learned years ago from my Aussie friends.
This American needn’t add here any snarky comment re: what America has gained over the past 20th Century and so far in this 21st Century in lasting, long range “Good Will”, that nauseus term, that has resulted from our politically correct application of that absurd concept of “changing hearts and minds.” I remember VietNam and Laos. Again, Principals are simply replaced with new ones who say…”..maybe THIS time…”
Iran is a greater looming problem to Central/West Asia. These Palestinian self-created and murderous “issues” are a misleading and diverting red-herring.
Peace would come instantly between Israel and the Arabs if the Arabs stopped making war on Israel. The Soviet propaganda of calling Arabs “Palestinians,” invented in Cairo in 1964 by the Soviet Union and Nasser when they founded the “Palestine Liberation Organization,” with all the phony history about the Arabs they named “Palestinian” should be denied.
“Palestine” was always synonymous with “land of the Jews” or “the Holy Land” (since Jesus was a Jew), and “Palestinian” synonymous with Jew since the Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of Judea to “Palestina” in 135 A.D. after defeating the last Jewish rebellion under Bar Kochba. That is why the Zionists wanted the “Palestine Mandate” and why the British were awarded the “Palestine Mandate” after World War I to be “homeland for the Jews.”
There is no “two state solution,” awarding Arabs yet another state in Judea and Samaria, based on the phonyness of calling Arabs “Palestinians>’
President Obama pushes “peace talks” between Israel and the Arabs, making it high on his agenda, but does nothing about Iran, the real threat to peace. He doesn’t even support the Green opposition in Iran, which would cost nothing but opening his mouth.
David, the truth of the situation could not have been expressed more clearly, another brilliant article. God bless Israel and the United States; hopefully, this article steels us to do what needs to be done.
When success for Palestinians means disaster for Israel how can anyone think the talks will succeed. Has there been any change since 1967 that would make talks justified or for that matter in the last 1500 years.
test
This is why I think the talks will fail.
Peace talks between the Israelis and Palestinians will begin tomorrow Washington DC. King Abdullah Mabarak of Egypt, as well as Israeli and Palestinian leaders will attend. Over the past week or so there has been a heavily publicized and financed campaign to push the Geneva initiative and to support the peace process in Israel. This was done according to news reports with heavy funding from USAID. Now we know that the USAID is supposedly funded through the United States State Department. But if anyone Google USAID and CIA they will find many many instances of information indicating that the Central intelligence agency has used in the past USAID money as a front to push for political change around the world. It is also interesting that many of the left wing so-called peace organizations in Israel are funded by the Ford foundation which in the past has been rumored also too of having CIA connections. Read The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters By Frances Stonor Saunders. If you go to the CIA website you can read a CIA agency book review. Now with this massive United States and foreign government interference in Israeli policy how can a peace agreement be a workable solution especially since many of the left wing so-called peace organizations do not have the support of the Israeli people. I have concluded that there is no way that the present peace process will succeed. Here are my reasons.
1. Minister of Defense Barak of labor was not elected by the Israeli people to make foreign-policy decisions. But he seems to be making those decisions instead of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. What does the defense minister hoped to gain from the peace negotiations. I don’t know and this is just a opinion but it is indeed interesting that in the past couple weeks and not only have there been rumors of possibly the manufacture of the US F35 Fighter Jet’s Wings in Israel, But also the purchase of 20 F35 from the United States.
2. Prime Minister Netanyahu does not have the support of all the parties of the coalition to withdraw from a major portion of the West Bank. He does not even have to support of his own Likud party. So I am unable to understand how he could deliver such an agreement.
3. If a peace arrangement is made based on ex-prime minister Ehud Barak’s 2000 peace proposal that ignores Israel’s basic religious sites, and lacks a border with strategic depth. No Israeli nor any Likud party member and many of the other coalition parties will accept the agreement. While some will argue that present military technology makes strategic depth obsolete that idea is extensively flawed. Strategic depth is not only needed to prevent terrorist attacks, but it is also needed to prevent two small countries from being integrated over time through cultural assimilation. What that basically means is that if two countries are so close together where there citizens are in constant contact where the borders become increasingly irrelevant that would become a major danger to the demographics of Israel as a Jewish state. Preventing that to me is more important than peace. If both states have no real borders or borders that are real small that will lead to either assimilation or increased tension by their internal civilian population. The ideal solution would be Israel with strategic depth not based on the borders of 67, or the Saudi plan, or to Barack plan of 2000. If strategic depth is not considered there is no way to sell this plan to the Israeli people, or even to get support from Likud and the vast majority of the other coalition parties in the present government. Likewise if religious sites in Judea and Samaria are not taken into account and included the plan will fail for the above reasons also. There could also be a civil war especially if many of the settlements are removed.
4. Creating a peace treaty that supports the idea of three Palestinian states is absurd if not crazy. The current peace plan basically recognizes Gaza as a Palestinian state, Judea and Samaria is a Palestinian state, and then there is Jordan which has 80% of the population being Palestinian. By supporting this absurd idea of three states and protecting Jordan King Abdullah Israel delegitimized herself as a Jewish state. There is only one Palestinian state and that is Jordan which is ruled by King Abdullah with a minority Bedouin ruling a majority 80% Palestinian population. A peace agreement ignoring that fact would be a huge mistake. A small Palestinian state in the West Bank alongside a small divided Israel Jewish state will cause friction because of overpopulation, and also increased Palestinian nationalism against Israel. I cannot believe that members of the Likud and the other ruling coalition parties and indeed the majority of the Israeli people would support an idea the peace treaty without that fact.
5. Ehud Barak and United States and the Arab governments want to make the old city of Jerusalem into an international zone. That is a mistake because such a solution would ignore the rights of Jewish worshipers in the old city and on the Temple Mount. It would also give away Israeli sovereignty of Jerusalem long claimed to be the heart of the Jewish nation. This will never never be accepted by the Israeli public or any members of the ruling coalition party. Likewise dividing Jerusalem without strategic depth on the borders would be insane. If this was done there would be a civil war in Israel.
In conclusion I believe that instead of bringing peace at the very least she may be closer to a regional war, as well as a possible civil war in Israel. I only hope that the powers that be within Israel can be trusted to make the right decision and make it for the right reasons because if not you might not have a Israel in 10 years.
This armchair reader liked what you wrote, especially the bit about the demographic problem. They (Arabs) seem to breed like fish. I’m totally in the blank about Israeli politics.
But re: “…Read The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters By Frances Stonor Saunders. If you go to the CIA website you can read a CIA agency book review…”
I couldn’t find it via cia.gov, and I’d like to, can you paste (or something) a link here, or where to find this? Amazon’s reviews seemed to contain the usual anti-CIA swipes; I’d find it tough to work in the public side of that obviously omnipotent, “nothing-good-has-ever-come-of-this” organization. Was Shostakovich re-written? Forgive my flippancy.
Personally, I’m skeptical of anything at all written about the C.I.A. that has been “outed” or isn’t classified….who can know the motive of the leaker?…or author?
….Eureka…
…..”CSI
CIA Home > Library > Center for the Study of Intelligence > CSI Publications > Studies in Intelligence > studies > vol46no1 > The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters
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The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters
Intelligence in Recent Public Literature
By Frances Stonor Saunders. New York: The New Press, 2000. 509 pages.
Reviewed by Thomas M. Troy, Jr. “
Thanks Charlie
Thomas M. Troy, Jr., served in CIA’s Directorate of Intelligence. He was pretty high up in intelligence.
Absolutely spot on. First up: nuke Belgium. Who’ll notice?
I am optimistic and pessimistic. Maybe the one that Limbaugh and Hannity sarcastically call “the Messiah” will force Israel and their enemies to sign a 7 year peace treaty.
…love your name…but please don’t limit yourself to Tours-Poiters…we need you just about everywhere these days.
As it happens, I’m currently reading Yehuda Avner’s “The Prime Ministers”, a memoir of his time serving many of Israel’s leaders over the decades. What’s remarkable is how familiar it all is, though we’re a generation or more past the first stabs at a “peace process”. Whether we’re dealing with Carter-Begin or Obama-Netanyahu, we have an arrogant, presumptuous Democratic President pursuing “interests” contending with nationalist Israeli leader vying to preserve his country’s very existence. And in the peanut gallery, the left-wing elite that put all the onus for success or failure on the Israeli camp, the hordes of anti-Semites (who claim they’re “just” anti-Zionists), and the hatred of the Arab masses.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
And just as they used to call Begin a “terrorist”, today they call Netanyahu a “war criminal” – neither charge is justifiable. The difference between those two, though, is that Begin was not only steeled by adversity, but was a believer, to the depths of his soul, not just in his nation’s cause but in the Jews’ place in history. Netanyahu is a secularist, like most of his predecessors, and a politician. Such people are more likely to break under pressure because they’re never quite sure what they’re fighting for.
Yes, but I think Bibi’s case is somewhat more complicated. He is influenced by his father, a true Jewish patriot. He has the shadow of Yoni somewhere in the background. And while he seems to stress easily, he also appears to recover after. And one more thing that did not used to be true with him, he listens to wiser people at times, people like Benny Begin and Yaalon. At times. So it is also up to those people to make sure their voices are heard. Begin Jr has been a disappointment, but he still has beliefs.
I think Bibi is a total wild card.
Adina, Terry, Menachem, David, Ralph, Charlie et al:
Of course the talks are a fraud. Everybody in Israel who cares about the country, who understands the Pals and basic geography and more, knows that the two-state solution is something you agree to argue over because, first, the overlord requires it; second, because the Israeli gov’t has no practical alternative, though it could have; third because of the potential or guarantee of unleashing Jewish-Jewish conflict in Israel. Well, change that: the ‘elites’ simply block discussion of alternatives to what Ralph notes correctly is a three-state solution (or four, with Gaza). This is not a revelation, but not easily understood by those who have not lived in Israel for a while – the debate is choked off, sometimes with subtlety, sometimes not, and controlled by the various quasi state-controlled outlets. This is not new.
I think Ralph’s point about Barak and Iran is valid. I am tempted to see him as some kind of double agents but that’s not really it either. He’s a patriarch, an oligarch, a certain type of Sabra authoritarian type. He knows how to run over people – ask Gabi Ashkenazi. And this is one of the great contradictions of Israel – you get people like Yoav Gallant pushed up the ladder because they remind Barak of Sharon, and that makes their rough hearts glad. Or something. Well, it’s like this everywhere, I suppose.
Of course the whole thing is surreal because Bibi Netanyahu is not going to uproot dozens of towns. He is not going to commit Gush Katif x 20. He will not be the agent of civil war, and the right wing has learned something from Gush Katif etc. Most of all, it has gained something by what at the time appeared to be regrettable passivity: it has gained the support of many of the silent majority, people who beforehand were anti-settler, people who understand things now more in American terms, at least somewhat, in terms of limitations of gov’t etc. The problem though is that nobody particularly wants to be the next Pearlman, the next Daniel Pinner, the next 14 year old girl plucked off a street because she holds a sign against Gush Katif or Amona. But you have now, imo, the base for mass civil disobedience should Bibi want to – or be forced to – ‘thank’ Uncle Sam for his help with Iran.
Of course nobody even knows if Sam wants to help. If I’m Bibi, then I would be quite leery of even letting Uncle see what I scribble on the napkin at breakfast. But that’s me.
Terry, naturally the negotiations stink. Little does Maxtrue from Totten’s threads know that I have thought and written about this, and proposed entirely different strategies – but as you say, ‘what strategy’ – they have not ever really thought strategically, I think. They don’t want to start now. The last PM to have a strategic vision of sorts, and that was about outlasting the foes and interlocutors, was probably Shamir. Before him, B-G. Well, Peres has a vision too – no borders, lots of dead Jews piled up all around. But even he has changed somewhat.
Thanks Charlie
Thomas M. Troy, Jr., served in CIA’s Directorate of Intelligence. He must have been pretty high up in the CIA
The USS Liberty: Israel’s Defenders Stage a Counterattack
A bit of a brouhaha. A mini tempest in a teapot. A minor hulabaloo. Much ado about nothing.
All of the above describe the second set of reactions to my articles on the USS Liberty as reprinted on AmericanConservativeDaily.com, and all of which were anticipated.
It seems as if whenever I dare cite evidence with regard to Israel’s 1967 attack on the Liberty it stirs up great angst in certain sectors of the citizenry. I haven’t yet been accused of being an anti-Semite because of my views but just give it time. It’s just coincidental, I’m sure, but the last time I dealt with this topic my blogsite was assaulted with malware.
As I said, just a coincidence.
Three comments on ACD with my [bracketed] rebuttals.
3 Responses to “The USS Liberty, Sickening Truth vs. Official Lies”
Jaffrin Spes on September 4th, 2010 9:23 am
You’re hysterical in more ways than one Gene. First you are hysterical in the funny sense as anyone that reads my comments will clearly see that I was not “irate” as you claim to avoid actually addressing the facts. Secondly you are hysterical in the sense that, well you are just hysterical over the fact that someone would dare provide facts instead of conspiracy theories. [Maybe it’s just me but comments such as, “Of course if you want to delve into Truther land of LIHOP or MIHOP you are welcome to do that. I think it is silly but to each his own. If you want to think of more sinister motives and convince anyone more than accusations will be needed,” smack of sarcasm which is a product of ire. Furthermore, those facts that “Jaffrin Spes” craves were more than adequately furnished in the words of such notables as Dean Rusk, Richard Helms, Oliver Kirby, Richard F. Kiepfer, and eyewitness and crew member of the Liberty, Rick Aimetti. That is, unless “Jaffrin Spes” considers a Secretary of State, a head of the CIA, an NSA Deputy Director, and two Liberty survivors as equally “silly” and/or liars.]
Black Con on September 4th, 2010 12:56 pm
Gene, I followed your last post and saw this comment you are referring to. How you jumped to the conclusion that his comments were “irate” really boggles my mind. It seems to me that you are acting very defense. [See above]
Actually Gene the theories if [sic] MIHOP and LIHOP do pertain to this incident although [sic] Since they also refer . . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1881)
Doomed to fail–Pals want total destruction of Israel, and Israelis want self-preservation. Pushing Israel by U.S. empowers Muslims everywhere to more violence, their response to everything.