Israel Won’t Be Bullied by Obama, But Bibi’s Tactic Could Fail as Well
Jewish reverence for Jerusalem is a special case because the city is the spiritual center of the Jewish people, but Jews have no less affection for, and identify with, hundreds of historic places throughout Judea and Samaria. The land of Israel isn’t some historic amusement park of sentimentality, or a romantic Hollywood of memories. It is at the core of Jewish consciousness.
But implying that Jerusalem is more worthy than other areas of Eretz Yisrael denies Zionism, Judaism, and Jewish history. It’s also a strategic trap. Sacrificing some communities in order to save others, amputating hilltops and settlements to assuage Arabs and the international community, only encourages more radical demands and undermines Israel’s raison d’etre. The struggle over settlements isn’t about an “agenda for peace,” but Israel’s destiny and security.
Obama has set the rules of the game: if settlements are wrong because they are built on conquered land, then Jerusalem does not belong to Jews. And by those criteria, nothing does.
Netanyahu’s mistake was to accept a two-state solution in the first place. There is no ”peace process” – the very use of the word ”peace” is just Orwellian language typical of delusional reality-denying liberal idiots.
All concessions, all negotiations, all appeasement is a mistaken strategy leading to more conflict.
Netanyahu opted to play the game – but the game is fixed, we cannot win this game. Netanyahu’s mandate from the electorate was to end the game or more accurately, if you can’t win the game , the best option is to play another game. But, since changeing the game is risky, difficult, would have many short-term consequences, Netanyahu chose the easy way, the response of a typical politician (as opposed to a real leader).
Let me put it this way – I would sooner ‘give away’ Tel Aviv than Jerusalem, Judea & Samaria.
To be sure, sans Jerusalem and Judea & Samaria-our historical and bilical heartland-Tel Aviv is well, a NYC wannabe, or to be generous, a Los Angeles facsimile, standing on its own, NOT worth Jewish blood and treasure.
Besides, Bibi knows that IF he really goes through with his ‘two state (death) solution’ he will be toppling his own reign, and will be leading the nation into the mother of all wars.
The lesson that should be apparent, learned by all Israel’s future leaders is – taking the path of least resistance, or rather, the one of appeasement, isn’t a road our tiny nation should dare take.
Those who foolishly, in a blind as a bat manner, (forging ahead against insane ‘policies’) MUST come to the realization that there is a limit to which the Israeli people-the Zionists-will tolerate.
Shoud Mexico demand that all or parts of Texas, CA, NM be given back to them and that we stop residential construction there…
#2 Adina Kutnicki.
We’re heading for a major regional war no matter what we do. With concessions, without concessions, Palestinian state or no Palestinian state, we cannot avoid the upcoming war. Appeasement only invites aggression & the Muslim world smells blood, the weakness of the West, the willingness to sacrifice us the same way the world tried to appease Hitler in the 1930′s by sacrificing Czechoslovakia.
Israel Won’t Be Bullied by Obama, But Bibi’s Tactic Could Succeed as Well
FIFY
Tracht Gut, Zain Gut.
Ok, let me get this straight…
Jews were DRIVEN out of the arab occupied middle east in 1948.
Arab control 649/650th of the middle east….
Israel sits on 1/650th of the middle east and has returned 99.5% of all disputed lands for peace (sinai, gaza, lebanon & vast areas of the west bank)
Israel has more arabs in it today as citizens than were in the area in 1948
Israeli arabs, build in jerusalem is that ok?
The Arab occupied areas of the middle east are almost completely Jew free…
Now the world says, no Jews in Jerusalem & the west bank…..
So the world liquidated the Jews of Europe, the arabs ethnically cleansed the Jews of arab occupied areas, the Jews of Africa were starved to death before Israel recused them…
SO now the Jews should just say “yes sir master” to the arabs and withdraw to a tiny ghetto to make the arabs happy?
again, the arabs control 649/650th of the middle east AND 20% of the 1/650th…
talk about being greedy sob’s….
what obami is doing just unifying the entire Jewish nation. For the last 3000 years
Jerusalem has been the hart of Jewish identity and this will never change. If he thinks he has the power to change it he fooling himself. We know he is an anti-Semite
but Jews will survive him, like they did many other historical anti-Semites.
Pardon me, and call me a anti-semite, but I agree with Robert Gates and gen. Petraeus. The current way of doing business that the Israeli government is doing, humiliating Dubai and Turkey and Lebanon and the Fatah folks and EU and my home, Norway: It endangers the alliance in the great war on terror. Unless you are part of “all-muslims-are-evil” and do not recognize that we are in alliance with a lot of muslim countries and they contribute, then this point is obvious.
Gaza has 50% of its population below 18. Its kids, trapped in a prison camp. And sure theyre crazy. I would be pretty crazy too after what theyve been through. But the israelis never even consider that point of view. They suck at COIN. Wich the good general Petraeus is aware off.
Terry, you are exactly correct. So many ordinary people always recognized that the two state solution was a fraud, that Oslo and the rest were just delaying tactics to push the inevitable war onto a future generation rather than fight it now. Yet, Israel’s leaders, one after the other, have played the game, knowing full well that in the end the deck is stacked against them and that the longer they play the worse it will be when the inevitable finally happens.
# 4 Terry-my post does not differ from what you are stating. Of course we are heading for a MAJOR war, and of course appeasement NEVER works.
Did I infer otherwise? No.
# 6 – VERY well put.
Besides, logic dictates that one cannot ‘occupy’(in the pejorative definition applied to Israel) ones own land, except in the normative sense-by building, building and building on ones own land!
to Fnord # 8
“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. ”
-Sir Winston Churchill
So the PJM position seems to be Israel insults the US and it is perfectly justified, but if a US action is insulting to Israel it is unconscionable? Classic.
#10 Adina Kutnicki.
I didn’t say you were infering otherwise, I was agreeing with you.
Everything about the two-state solution & this endless babbling about ”peace” is based on a number of myths, unsupported assumptions.
Among these myths are that solving the Israel/Palestine conflict will somehow, perhaps by magic, end other conflicts in the Muslim world. The other major myth is that the creation of a Palestinian state will be the end of the conflict – in fact, and as I’m sure you would agree, is that it will be just the beginning of an even greater conflict.
Terry, Adina – IF you are correct (and I fear you may be) that a major war is in the offing, Israel needs to strike massively at the ‘head of the serpent’–Assad and his circle, and the leadership of the Iranian ruling clique. I also believe that (given a sufficient cloak of deniability) Saudi Arabia would help Israel do it. Note that the shortest flight from Israel to Iran passes over–and only over–Saudi Arabia.
Fnord
About twenty years ago the Arabs of Gaza could get jobs in Israel. Not only that, the green houses of Gaza also provided jobs and wealth for those same Arabs. After the Arabs started terror bombing in Israel, the Israelis cut them off of Israeli jobs. Note that was a reflex to Arab terrorism. Also after the Gaza settlements were dismantled, the green houses were turned over to Arab control. They blew them up disregarding the fact that they were a major economic asset. Fnord, what I think you need is more moslems in Norway. That Fnord will keep the alliance on terror happy. Leave Israel out of the equation because its only an excuse for the moslems.
Allow me to take the Machiavellian approach from Israels perspective (Excluding all BS and moral considerations – Do not take it serious, only war gaming here)
Maybe a war is a good thing for Israel. If there is a war, Israel would justifiably have to “temporarily” occupy more land. Land that could later be used for new settlements. I’m sure there are other areas that are “at the core of Jewish consciousness”, wink wink. The other wars worked very well to Israels advantage. What’s there to lose? Israel can’t get more unpopular than they are already. Israel currently has completely lost support from the US including all the American Jews who all vote democrat. Chances for peace (whatever that is. Who are Israel negotiating with exactly?) at the moment are zero, no matter what anybody does. Another strategy could be to just hang in there for 3 years. By then the US will have republicans back in power and they will support Israel wholeheartedly. Ironically that will be entirely without any Jewish votes. (It’s interesting how Jews in America doesn’t give a hoot about “the core of Jewish consciousness”). What Israel can use the support for, I’m not sure. And there is absolutely zero benefit for the US in supporting Israel, except the good feeling of doing the right thing. Israel doesn’t have anything the US needs. The war strategy is probably better. Also Arabs prefer to live in Israeli controlled territories anyway, because they are prosperous and safe. Everybody wins. Only major downside will be the casualties, but they are probably unavoidable anyway. And in any case they will be less than from the atomic holocaust coming soon from Iran. After that Israel could engage in a new “peace process” (laughing my ass off). The “peace process” will take forever, and the time can be used to consolidate the new and expanded settlement areas.
We can only hope that Obama follows the wise precedent of President Bush and refuses to give Israel the OK to attack Iran.
In psychology terms, Obowmao is the abuser, and the Booboo is his willing co-operative co-dependent victim, always coming back for more.
Joseph
Israel doesn’t need Obama’s approval to attack Iran. They are positioned and rehearsed and ready and just about pissed off enough to do it. Just look at what they did in Syria.
JL
Many of the Jews who voted for Obama have turned on him. His treatment of Netanyahu and pandering to the Arabs has turned them. At this point it would be hard to say if he has 50% of their vote. The numbers are shifting daily.
13 Jeb:
Israel “insulted” the US? Really? When? And what form did this “insult” take?
What kind of retard would curse Israel for building in Jerusalem and do nothing about Iran that’s building nuclear weapons?
An Obama retard is the answer. Obama in the long run is going to be the best thing that’s ever happened to conservatism or Israel. All we have to do is ride out 7 more months until the 2010 elections, it will be a blood bath for the liberal douche bags! November can’t come fast enough for me or the health of the world.
FNord #8: What is your endgame scenario for Israel? If it includes the word “death,” then you are a fascist. If it does not include the word “death,” then your position makes you naive at best.
OK, Fnord (Or should I say Vidkun?), you have your wish. I’ll call you what you are.
My solution, Jerry? A two-state solution under the US security umbrella, quite possibly with Gaza coming under direct UN government for at least 10 years before it is included into the palestinian state. Please remember that the US is training the palestinian forces in the west bank already, and have done so since the Bush admin. Contrary to you I do not think the palestinians are just bloodthirsty animals, I believe thay are rational actors.
However, thats not the point at hand: The point is that lately, Israel has gone out of its way to insult key major allies in the War on Terror, Turkey and Dubai. That is directly damaging US security efforts. By making Jerusalem a battleground Israel is provoking deep deep anger among moderate muslims. (And if you think there are no moderate muslims you are part of the problem from a military pov.) US soldiers have to work with muslim colleagues every day in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and elsewhere.
Oh, and miguelj, do you see Petraeus and Gates as anti-semite too? Idjit.
Fnord: Turkey and Dubia frequently publish ad broadcast on state TV propaganda that demonizes Israel and makes out its citizens to be brutal murderers. They show absolutely no respect to Israel and instead publicly support terrorist groups dedicated to its destruction. To call them members of of the “war on terror” is laughable. It is an insult to all that have died fighting terrorism to include these countries, or perhaps a measure of desperate we are for “allies” in this fight.
As for the UN, you will find no greater hive of scum. let me explain:
If democracy is the tyranny of the majority.
And the majority of countries are brutal tyrannies.
And the UN is a democracy of countries.
Then the UN is a tyranny of brutal tyrannies.
And only a complete fool would trust them with their lives. (which you are suggesting that Israelis do)
P.S. rational does not mean that they think in the same moral and/or logical system that you do. Rational only means that they have a system of reason. Hitler was a rational actor and so was Stalin.
flipside: good point. Fair argument.. We did not ethnically cleanse the lands of California, Texas, Arizona,. Oh duh. We sure did didn’t we. OK we didn’t force them in certain areas then terrorize them.. oh wait we did.. Damn 0 for 2. Maybe we should try to invade Canada again..
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
If you don’t like what our leadership has to say to Bibi why don’t you return the American taxpayer’s $3 billion and take a walk? That way you could become totally independent of the US and say and do as you please. And we Americans could then extract ourselves from the terrorist cross hairs and the hatred we endure from across the Muslim world as a result of the support you get from us, financial, political and military.
13 jeb…there was no insult, and by Obama claiming this announcement was in an insult he is revealing is Muslim shame/honor society world view.
Israel has no need to justify what they do the US; they won the war(s) remember? Just like the US won the Mexican American war and french and Indian war, the victor can “occupy” whatever land it can hold. Israel’s leaders are morons for even entertaining giving up any more land. What the world would actually respect is another war whereby Israel pushed the west bank arabs to Jordan.
Dear Lack-17:
Your suggestion that America is “in the cross-hairs” for the financial, political, and military support that the US offers to Israel is not really an honest appraisal of reality.
There is not “aid” which is not a contract to buy weapons from the USA, which employs people stateside. There are plenty of perks, like the shared intelligence from Israel and the improvments that Israelis make to the weapons purchased from the USA. And the US has secret bases in Israel that even Israelis cannot access or have knowledge of. So the sharing is rather one-sided, and the US is pushing the two state “solution” to the problem of Jewish sovereignty, which means the end of Israel altogether.
But before that day comes, the highest hopes of the US State Department (and its current president) is that there will be a state of constant, slow war, so that the US can continue to “supply” arms to both sides.
This is the type of aid that Israel can live totally without, thank you very much.
It is the American taxpayer who pays the bill for the President and the State Department, who manage to sell weapons from the US all over the globe for a profit to the companies involved.
This cynical game has been going on for some time. The perpetrators think that no one knows what they are up to, and that ignorance will cost the guy on the street.
We in Israel could have had peace with our Arab neighbors if not for this sad state of affairs.
And one last thing, Lack, you do not have a leader, but a follower. He was bought and paid for by a wealthy billionaire who probably advises him what to do: George Soros. PLEASE do educate yourself and see what companies Soros has been involved with during his career. Keep an eye open for arms manufacturers.
Also, did USA supply Israel arms in 1948? Not at all.
Just rereading about the hardships the Jews of Europe and the (former) Palestine had in establish a land for Jewish survival. I do not think we will give it up all that easily and, actually, we will fight that much harder in the face of the increasing Jew hatred around the globe. Moshe Dann is right on, as usual!
#18 Joseph “We can only hope that Obama follows the wise precedent of President Bush and refuses to give Israel the OK to attack Iran.”
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Obama refuses permission to Israel? Get real. Obama is a taqiyyah spouting faker.
Israel will ALWAYS survive. They have survived every diabolical situation they have ever confronted and they ALWAYS will. The Arabs are going to keep bullying Israel until they get what they’re asking for. Mark my words: Israel will soon be victorious. They have the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob as their rear guard!
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