Is the Koran Burner an American Patriot?
So let me get this straight. Florida preacher Terry Jones burns the Koran as part of a religious protest and is promptly condemned by General David Petraeus? Jones’ act, the general says, “was hateful, it was intolerant and it was extremely disrespectful and again, we condemn it in the strongest manner possible.”
Meanwhile, the United States military condones and participates in the burning of the Christian Bible. As CNN reported in May of 2009:
Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.
The American media elite are also wringing their hands over the burning of the Koran, and not just on the Left. Even Jonah Goldberg of National Review laments that “(b)urning books — any books — is bad. Burning holy books is really bad.” Uh, no. A book is a product, a piece of property, which can legitimately be used for reading, propping a door open, hiding cash (senior citizens only), decorating a shelf, shredding for an art project, burning in protest, or anything else its owner may desire.
You see, I’m terribly old fashioned. I believe that our constitutionally protected rights to free speech and private property were designed exactly for men like Jones (whose views are unpopular), and to provide sanctuary for exactly his kind of protest (which we may find morally unsavory). I also was under the impression that untold numbers of Americans have given their lives overseas so that all of us can enjoy these privileges here at home.
Terry Jones may be a bigot, but that is hardly the point. As far as I’m concerned, he is more of an American patriot that General Petraeus, who ought to be ashamed of himself for siding with the savages in Afghanistan, who have rioted and killed dozens because their “sensitivities” have been inflamed by the actions of one private American citizen. Really, who does he think he is? How dare Petraeus, the president, or any other U.S. official condone the state ordered burning of the Christian Bible, which is a far, far graver offense than the preacher’s inconsequential conflagration. You see it is when, and only when, the government decides which books are to be consigned to the flames that it is “really bad,” to use Goldberg’s eloquent formulation.
Ditto. Yes, a misstep by Petreus. I guess he is trying to minimize additional damage and bad situation comings. After all, US army is still in a savage land with irrational population and with an almost suicidal Rules Of Engagement set there, I bet he has been kinda forced to do so.
I saw and heard GEN. Petreus’ comments. He appeared to me to be just saying what he was told to say by his superior officers, not what he truly believed. That’s the impression I got, anway.
Regardless, it’s obvious that the Obama regime and the American left do not think highly of the Christian religion. The left doesn’t like this country, its people or its main religion (Christianity). I personally do not have religious beliefs, but the USA is a Christian country, no matter what Obama thinks.
Sorry I disagree. General Patreaus has a history of this sort of political correctness. It was Patreaus who, before the Senate Armed Services Committee, explained that the Muslim and Muslim-Arab war against Israel “foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR (Area of Responsibility)….” After much criticism from the right, the general claimed he’d been taken out of context. You “bet he has been kinda forced to do so.” Wasn’t this the defense at Nuremberg? I was only following orders?
Officers who can’t convincingly preach PC don’t make General in today’s army. Petreus either believes it or can fake it so well the converted can’t tell the difference. Just the way it is.
That is why actual warriors like Allen West are drummed out long before they get stars. Patton wouldn’t make Major today.
Why not? Even an unqualified non citizen commander-in-chief did!!
West deserves 5 Stars in my neck of the woods.
And if he continues to drive the Long Island, liberal, farts of Century Village who don’t like a Black unless he has that “D” after his name….nuts….he deserves to be the CIC. Unlike his nemesis, fraud, imposter in the WH….West is a genuine hero, a brave and honest man that defies the liberals stereotype of a black man in America.
And that is one who is…utterly helpless and dependent on the graces of the Unkie White libs that let a black man cut their lawn…..so long as it’s cheaper than an illegal to do it.
West has done more to savage the ridiculous notion, crap, hyperbole nonsense that islam is a peaceful “religion” more than anyone since the last brave King of Spain!
He knows along with Peter King that Islam is a cult, a sham, a hoax masquerading as a “religion”. West knows what islams true intentions are and knows that it should be destroyed and banned under the RICO Act alone.
You’ll only get the truth out of this trooper…this Colonel…unlike the wimps who shamefully wear the stars.
Let’s not forget what General Patreaus’ job is. He is the commander of another counterinsurgency in a Muslim land. He is the one responsible for completing a function defined by the President and he MUST perform political functions in that theater. If you only look at the context in the limited scope of the US you are completely missing what he does for a living. He has to say somethings that he probably doesn’t agree with in order to politically calm the situation in his combat theater. He’s already had soldiers killed over this kerfuffle.
Remember he’s still a soldier under orders. He’s there to succeed, not make you all happy.
So what you are saying is this. A great man should sell-out. He should sacrifice his integrity and his good name in order to be a “good soldier.” These are your morals. These are your ethics.
Bravo…..one word…Bravo.
His job is to make the other bastards wish they’d never chose the wrong side. And make him forever sorry that he had to dies for the other losers.
“He’s already had soldiers killed over this kerfuffle.”
You mean they weren’t killed before this? Oh, wait…
Appeasement is appeasement, no matter what. And this is exactly what Petreus is doing. Appeasing our enemies.
Your reasoning is only a tiny aspect of the General’s job. In the larger context, his words affect many more Americans at home than muslims abroad, and the effect of his words was, to say the least, stunning. He would have served his mission, his job, and his entire constituency far better had he simply kept his mouth shut, but then if he wanted to keep his position, he had to say what he was told to say. Why are so many persons afraid to talk about the elephant in the room ? ? ?
General Betrayus is a coward and a liar. His job, bottom line, is to tell the truth and do whats right, just like every other man on earth.
Were I president I would tell the raghead crazies that we operate under our constitution and we will be happy to leave any time they want to dispute our right to so operate.And that, the very next time they complain we are coming home and they can deal with their brother maniacs the best way they can.
I didn’t mean Petreus forced to do so by some orders he received from his superiors (that’s the position of DavidMac in his answer to my post). I meant being forced by the situation:
1.- dangerous ROE based in nation-building and winning the people’s heart
2.- atrocious land with primitive people who doesn’t seem to value Life
3.- we all know in the Middle East those people just like to be in revolt for whatever reason. they DON’T go just for killing their hated ones (like Rushdie, Van Gogh, the cartoonists or the pastor), they ALSO revolt and kill and destroy whatever is in front of them when they’re having their hating trip.
In ALL those conditions (not only the savages but also those ROE and the political guidelines) he chose to avoid further destruction by saying something stupid. I mean, if we are in a frontal war heading to win it, and not to “built nations”, we and nobody would actually care to appease those savages, because burning a Koran however popular or unpopular, is inside the rights of the American people that the army is actually called to protect. But alas, it seems that we are not there to fight for our freedom..
Still, it’s a error from Petreus, since nothing he said would actually change the mentality of those tribes.
Petreaus is nothing more than a politician in uniform. He is unfit to lead on any level. He should be hung for treason along with Secretary Gates and left to rot.
If it was up to me…Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio would be my General in charge of Afghan ops.
Right On! I love that guy.
Good thinking, Michael — concise, to the point, and no thrashing about the shrubbery . . .
I agree with you Steve, with some additional information. First we are a Christian Nation, period. There are more people in this country that live by our Christian beliefs, our freedom of speech, freedom of religion, (not including a sect of a radical religion, ie. Islam Muslim, which is the total opposite because the Koran teaches nothing but hate, death, abuse, murder, rape, pedophilia, and dogs have more rights than women.) They hate the infidel, who are all white Caucasians and American. They plan to take this country and kill every one who is either Christian or white. The Bible has been destroyed many times by unbelievers but it is still the oldest book on earth and we simply print more. The Muslim imbeciles are totally ignorant and their god is Satan, because he leads them to dark beliefs. If Hate over rules Love you can not be good. Death by suicide or murder is opposite of Life. We do not need the Koran in our country to try and persuade our young people to go their way. We do not need any Muslim beliefs in this country and if they don’t like it, they need to go back to their country. There are some Muslims who have converted to Christianity, but those that have, would be killed if the Muslim leaders found out. Burning the Koran is a good thing to do, at least it shows we are not afraid of them and their stupid beliefs. If we had a Christian Leader, this would have never been an issue.
I agree, it’s politics gone wild amidst the martial. Honor requires a soldier to obey or quit. On that score we already know that our number one general has a moniker that rhymes with his name. Thank god, we still have a citizen voices such as that of the young woman Ann Barnhardt. Her you tube videos are amazing. Despite strong language, she gets her point across.
“Ditto. Yes, a misstep by Petreus.” By choosing Petraus the Obama Administration has gutted the man’s career and destroyed his future as with McCrystal. Don’t want to hear about Rolling Stone Mag either. Men will be men unless you are fingered by the Obama Admin. Then you become Metrosexuals whatever that means. Two players removed from the board.
This article is about some Rinky Dink preacher in Florida, who has the ability to bring down the wrath of a nation far, far away. In some ways this is unbelievable, but the powers that be are capable of rattling war drums at a great distance. I am sure these little mullahs sit around with
a laptop hidden among their robes to catch the latest news flash. This article has also so opened may doors of thought and discussion. Good to see some thinkers here.
“This article is about some Rinky Dink preacher in Florida, who has the ability to bring down the wrath of a nation far, far away.”
The wrath of a nation? More like a group of idiots.
No, this is about a group of followers of a religion with such a huge ‘idiot button’ that they react to any news perceived to be an offense to their religion.
Certainly the Fl preacher is a button pusher but the idiots in other lands that rise to the bate are the real problem.
I have a plan for winning in afganistan. We pull out and every week we burn a Quoran. They will riot and destroy their own homes, commerce, and perhaps when all is destroyed even destroy their own Mosques. Of course in doing so they would necessarily destroy each other.
sic
That is a good idea Terry. It just might work!!! Let them kill each other and we’ll be rid of the whole mess!
Whatever you run for, Terry, you’ve got my vote!
If burning one of their holy books causes such consternation among their masses, perhaps if we all burned one at the same time, they would simply be so overwhelmed that they would implode — problem solved, move on . . .
Maybe instead of arming our gunships with ball, we should put hot lard spray heads on them and make low level strafing (spraying) runs over the market places and other large gatherings.
Paint-ball guns with special ammo filled not with paint, but pig blood.
They make themselves so easy to fight . . .
Petraeus has rights to opinions too which means he has the right to condemn Jones and if doing so puts oil on the waters and prevents unnecessary bloodshed he is doing what he is being paid to do.
Lindsay Graham, OTOH, since he is a lawmaker and a lawyer ought to recognize that Jones has the right to do what he did, and explain the danger of legislative overreaction to unpopular speech — or keep his mouth shut.
“Petraeus has rights to opinions….”
He certainly DOES NOT. He’s an officer in the military and thus is subject to the UCMJ and it’s procedures. He…DOES NOT get 1st Amendment rights.
He gets Military…rights.
In other words…he needs to shut his face.
IF Patreus were a patriot himself, he could not be induced to even speak those words. As this article points out, our country has always upheld the right to free speech and property. For the government to weih in on a private person’s use of their own property and the exercise of their free speech is UNAMERICAN in the extreme. At least, the America I used to know.
When adherents of Islam murdered 343 of my collegues and 2699+ of my fellow citizens all because the US had a presence in Saudi Arabia, I didn’t feel the need to go out and murder random muslims where ever in the U.S. I could find them.
And that’s the difference between them and US.
Firefirefire said better than I could. That is exactly the difference between them and us.
The Christians are no better than the muslims, go back and read some history.
We use to live in caves too, who let you out?
“Christian” means, “like Christ.” Folks who think, speak, act and omit like Christ are Christians. Folks who call themselves Christians but do not emulate Christ are not. So, cross off the crusaders, inquisitioners, televangelists, hypocrites, etc.
Exactly!!
At the top we have Bible burning, Constitution flouting, and Islam defending. Obama, Petraeus, Graham, and all the other dhimmi rats need to go. The Muslim Brotherhood runs deep here. It needs to be purged from the land of the free or the land will no longer be free. If we’re in Afghanistan and the people are not free, free to choose their own religion, then why are we there? Certainly not for the cause of freedom.
This whole line of argument is just childish.
In the real word, consequences matter. Petraeus is trying to win a country from the bad guys without having to decimate its population. If you don’t think that’s a worthwhile objective, just say so.
Jones put on his little pantomime with the very reasonable expectation that it would provoke the same sorts of riots that led to people (western, non muslim people) being killed and injured in the past. That’s why he did it. And the only point of it seems to have been to demonstrate that he could get away with it (oh, and stay in the limelight, which is hard to a theologically ignorant fundamentalist priest to do many other ways).
So he did it, expecting (assuming he has a clue) that people would die. If he does it again, he can practically bet money that more people will die. Is he actually killing those people? No. Violent nutjobs are doing that. But the people in that UN compound would be alive right now if he hadn’t staged his little hissy-fit. An outcome like that was predictable. He wears that.
Yes, he has the right. But he’s an arse nonetheless. He deserves to be condemned as somebody who has nothing of value to add to a debate, but storms in anyway and creates a scene that gets people killed because he likes the attention. What he has to say about islam can be written on a postage stamp – he doesn’t like it. Yeah, we get that.
Some idiot posted in another thread that it wouldn’t be the pastor’s fault if half of afghanistan killed the other half. Except that’s not what we’re looking at, is it? Outsiders are killed by these riots. Outsiders who are REALLY putting themselves at risk to help other people. Unlike armchair warriors who pout about “defending their rights” from their mum’s basement.
And some bozo named “PhillipGaley” likened it to “step on a crack”. Which is even more ridiculous, because stepping on a crack doesn’t actually break anyone’s back. If it did, and somebody chose to do it knowing that, then they deserve to be held accountable. And that’s what jones did. It appears to be what he plans to do again.
Get out of the world of theoretical. The real world has consequences.
“Petraeus is trying to win a country from the bad guys . . . .” That’s the problem. Patreaus should be trying to kill the bad guys. That’s the only way you “win a country.” And the bad guys include the idiots that kill people because someone burned a book.
Precisely. Our Military is no longer on a mission to kill terrorists. They are simply there to protect one bunch of Moslems from being killed by another bunch of Moslems. The plot has been lost and it’s time to come home and defend Americans.
So what happened to “we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here?”
And do you feel the same way about iraq?
And “there to protect one bunch of Moslems from being killed by another bunch of Moslems” is not significantly different from arguments made in the US and britain against getting involved in WWI.
Tech: conflating WWII with Afghanistan is showing your weakness and lefty bias. Yes we went there in the beginning to kill terrorists but that became a war of nation building because of PC people like yourself and the rest of the left. Had we gone in there like in WWII we would have lost less of our blood and treasure. So if there is any blood on someone’s hands it is you and your ilk. So what would you have us do to avenge our murdered citizens? How would you fight the GWOT? Bush was under immense pressure from the left and LameSM to NOT fight this war in a winning manner but to manage it. You of course would not understand the difference. Think LBJ and Vietnam…
And “there to protect one bunch of Moslems from being killed by another bunch of Moslems” is not significantly different from arguments made in the US and britain against getting involved in WWI.
If you really believe your stupid argument take a walk through any VAMC or walk around the monuments at the Mall shouting that WWII was not a real war and then stand by for a 90 year-old vet to kick your lily-livered white ass.
Anonymous, did you even read my post?
Where did I mention WWII? Where did I say it wasn’t a “real war”?
If you meant to write WWI, then you’re still wrong – I’m not conflating anything. I’m pointing out that there are no new arguments here. That “beastly people do beastly things to each other” has been used before. The reason britain backed france is the same reason we’re still in afghanistan – because it supports our strategic interests.
“Yes we went there in the beginning to kill terrorists but that became a war of nation building because of PC people like yourself and the rest of the left.”
By “the left” I have to assume you mean the neo-cons, because rebuilding afghanistan was always part of the game plan. Eventually. When the president saw fit to send enough troops and material to do the job. The whole point was to deny the country to the terrorists. Just bombing the place wouldn’t do that – in fact, it’ll shove the country toward the US’ enemies faster. You fundamentally fail to understand the nature of the problem. Terrorism doesn’t need a traditional state structure to operate. Seriously, though – have you been paying any attention at all in the last decade?
“Had we gone in there like in WWII we would have lost less of our blood and treasure.”
You really have no idea what you’re talking about. The “war” in afghanistan and iraq were both won fairly quickly. It’s the subsequent peace that’s causing problems. The taliban and bathists were toppled. If that’s all you wanted, then the war’s over. But try pulling the troops out now and see what happens.
“If you really believe your stupid argument take a walk through any VAMC or walk around the monuments at the Mall shouting that WWII was not a real war and then stand by for a 90 year-old vet to kick your lily-livered white ass.”
Get a grip.
Anonymous, did you even read my post?
Where did I mention WWII? Where did I say it wasn’t a “real war”?
If you meant to write WWI, then you’re still wrong – I’m not conflating anything. I’m pointing out that there are no new arguments here. That “beastly people do beastly things to each other” has been used before. The reason britain backed france is the same reason we’re still in afghanistan – because it supports our strategic interests.
“Yes we went there in the beginning to kill terrorists but that became a war of nation building because of PC people like yourself and the rest of the left.”
By “the left” I have to assume you mean the neo-cons, because rebuilding afghanistan was always part of the game plan. Eventually. When the president saw fit to send enough troops and material to do the job. The whole point was to deny the country to the terrorists. Just bombing the place wouldn’t do that – in fact, it’ll shove the country toward the US’ enemies faster. You fundamentally fail to understand the nature of the problem. Terrorism doesn’t need a traditional state structure to operate. Seriously, though – have you been paying any attention at all in the last decade?
“Had we gone in there like in WWII we would have lost less of our blood and treasure.”
You really have no idea what you’re talking about. The “war” in afghanistan and iraq were both won fairly quickly. It’s the subsequent peace that’s causing problems. The taliban and bathists were toppled. If that’s all you wanted, then the war’s over. But try pulling the troops out now and see what happens.
“If you really believe your stupid argument take a walk through any VAMC or walk around the monuments at the Mall shouting that WWII was not a real war and then stand by for a 90 year-old vet to kick your lily-livered white ass.”
Get a grip.
In the real world, these people are so violent that they killed and threatened people who suggested that an anti-blasphemy law is not a good idea.
Jones is a nobody. If it wasn’t him, this would have happened with someone else. Too many people are being whipped up in to a frenzy by demagogic cult leaders who think there is something to be gained by acting “offended” and “angry.”
Why only a year ago, some idiot Imam told his congregation about flushing Koran books down the toilet and caused riots that blew all over the Islamic world. The worst part about all this is that it seems to have been a lie. These people rioted and killed others over nothing but a perceived offense.
I propose that the solution is to continue “offending” them until they start realizing that this feigned offense thing is madness.
Exactly. The problem isn’t that one book was burned, the problem is that not enough books were burned, and enough cartoons weren’t published and that enough movies weren’t shown. Instead of cowering in fear that any discussion, cartoon, movie, is justification for a murderous rampage – we should be stepping up these non-violent protests. Non-violence works when the continous peaceful attempts at change are met with voilence out of all propotion to the “percieved” offense (sit down strike of the 60′s etc). We should be continue to tweek the sensibilities of the Islamists until the world realizes that THEY are the dangerous ones, they are the ones who do not want to exist in a civilized world, they are the cause of the problems and they need to be confronted and stopped.
“We should be continue to tweek the sensibilities of the Islamists until the world realizes that THEY are the dangerous ones, they are the ones who do not want to exist in a civilized world, they are the cause of the problems and they need to be confronted and stopped.”
Isn’t that exactly what petraeus is doing?
The problem is that terrorists don’t have business cards. They don’t have a postal address or a big headquarters with a sign out front written “terrorists”. We can all agree that they’re the bad guys, but it doesn’t really matter a whole lot as long as they’re able to operate in semi-failed states like pakistan and afghanistan.
Isn’t that the way cults operate?
Flushing an intact Koran is impossible. The closest that could be done is to drop it into an outdoor toilet which are relatively rare outside the Muslim world. However, a page [or two] at a time is doable.
You say, “Petraeus is trying to WIN a country from the bad guys without having to decimate its population.” A Florida preacher burns a copy of the Qur’an. Those we are trying to “win” fly into a rage of killings and be-headings; they murdered people who had absolutely no connection to this Fla. preacher. Why didn’t the Allies do this (what you suggest) in the second world war? What was wrong with FDR and Churchill? Who was this Churchill guy anyway? Was he nuts? Why didn’t “Ike” (Eisenhower), like Patreaus, try to win the hearts and the minds of the German people?
Consider what a modern General in command of a Theatre must accomodate, compared to Ike.
Ike’s orders for Operation Overlord read to the effect of “Conduct landing operations on the NW coast of Europe, and defeat the German Army.” Period.
Imagine the nonsense Petraeus must deal with. I am fairly certain his operational orders (read “some damned Politician’s ideas” here) are likely several thousands of pages long, and contain some truly witless nonsense he must somehow conform to AND complete his mission.
Dunno, don’t entirely sell Petraeus short.
We have errors compounded by errors. Jones should be reproved and also Petraus. Jones was not acting in the spirit of Christ for we must invite the Muslim to choose the better way. We need to try these spirits and determine their source. Satan is well equipped to carry out his deceit. Petraus should be reproved for burning the invitation.
Neither act justifies the Muslim violence.
Let me try to follow your reasoning with another example. Osama Bin Laden has said he is carrying out terrorist acts because the United States is occupying the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, etc.). Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that if we stay there (or send more troops), we can expect retaliation in the form of people dying.
So, sending troops to the ME is equivalent to killing US citizens in terror attacks?
Get a grip.
Firstly, I never said that burning a koran was “equivalent” to killing people. I personally have no problem with burning korans – read what I wrote.
Leaving aside iraq, which never had anything to do with the war on terror, but most definitely put westerners in harm’s way (bali, spain, london, various attempted attacks on planes – all motivated by the policy to attack iraq. That doesn’t mean the invasion was wrong, but facts are facts).
The attack on afghanistan was a direct military response to try to remove the people who attacked the US. For the most part, it has succeeded, and the US is undoubtedly marginally safer as a result (I don’t doubt that if nothing had happened bin laden and KSM would have tried something else along the same lines). That makes sense.
Burning a koran has no value. It has no information content. It’s not even a fracking statement – it’s just attacking a symbol to provoke a response. The two things are not the same.
Why was it wrong? Because the Taliban said they would turn the
afghan people against our troops? We have already censored ourselves
on drawing a cartoon and now we will censor ourselves on burning a
book? If they say they will turn the afghan people against our troops
if we don’t take Christian programs off our airways will we do this?
If they say they will turn the afghan people against our troops if we
don’t make all women wear burqas will we do this too? Where do we draw
the line? There shouldn’t even be a line to be drawn! The line was
drawn many years ago with the writing of our first amendment. That is
the only line we, as Americans, should be concerned with. It is what
our troops have fought and died for and what they are fighting and
dying for in Afghanistan today. How must they feel to see us give in
to fear and intimidation in their name? This is a country where the
Christian cross in a jar of urine, the Virgin Mary covered in dung and
a painting of Jesus engaging in oral sex is considered art and is
displayed in our museums. And now I am told by the president of the
United States that burning a Quran is “an act of extreme intolerance
and bigotry”. Is the play “The Book of Mormon” by Trey Parker and Matt
Stone “an act of extreme intolerance and bigotry”? Well no it’s not
it’s an “extraordinarily well-crafted musical assault on all things
holy,” according to The Washington Post. Why is this? Because the
“Mormon World” does not explode and start murdering innocent people?
Is that the measure of free speech now? Who ever murders the most
people decide what we can and can not say/do? Please explain to me
why Terry Jones must be condemned while Parker and Stone are
exalted. Please explain to me why we must give up the most precious
right we have because some lunatics half a world away don’t like it.
Well put and my sediments exactly – thank you for such a logical argument!
Like Pavlov’s dog – the islamic extremists in the world are beginning to catch on. How long will it be before they begin to riot over movies – music – our choice of President – etc etc? Where does it stop?
These people are nothing more than another example of the tail attempting to wag the dog. All we have to do is reward them with proper behavior and they’ll be good! What is that you ask?
Dhimmitude!
Only an idiot cannot see the logic of their behavior – or the fallacy of ours.
How long will it be before they begin to riot over movies
Well, the GWOT has been running for a decade now. I’d say that if they haven’t started rioting over things like that yet, then they’re probably not going to.
That’s a pathetic slippery-slope argument.
And calling a spade by its proper definition , how else should Patreaus’ patriotism be measured with his volunteered statement to NATO TV compared to internet hacked uttering through wiki leaks and attached to McCrystal for immediate political reprisal? Gen, Petraeus, Sen Graham, Ambassador Eikenberry and other western ambassadors proceeded to patronize and echo Hamid Karzai after his action on March 24 condemned the act of burning what is considered trash half a world away as a crime against the religion and the entire Muslim nation, called on the U.S. and the U.N. to bring the perpetrators to justice and demanded a satisfactory response to the resentment and anger of over 1.5 billion Muslims around the world.
Now one must also also question their allegiance along with the ace of the suit now holding the position of commander in chief returning from yet another vacation abroad to dance between his party’s leaders and inevitable truth with continued military pay at risk.
The march on the U.N. compound in Mazar-e-Sharif followed a fiery sermon by government paid clerics in that city’s main mosque. Karimullah, a 25-year-old religious student’s statement that America just wants to humiliate the Muslim world is all the proof needed to name the sources of violence. Denial of their peace for conquest intimidation strategy used successfully for 1350 years cannot be accepted by military strategists.
Since six of the first seven translations of the Quo’ran were burned along with all associated script by order of Caliph Uthman in 650 AD, the only error in Jones’ activity was his failure to wrap the trash in pigskin before burning it. The practice of burial of victims with pig guts worked well for Gen. Pershing to stop the aggression of the Moro Muslim uprising in the Philippines in 1901 with great satisfaction by those with their lives at risk.
No such respect can exist in any military structure with total absence of logic among superiors willing to submit to any historically proven course to defeat.
This incidence is a common tactic of a common enemy using an unrelated incident to incite a mob prone to jihad violence at the whim of a leader in holy garb promising death to be the guarantee of its own reward. Consider that a porcine contaminated burial has always been a trump card for such promise of reward.
Speaking of childish, what kind of behavior does it speak to when a person or persons retaliate violently when something happens that they don’t like? Here in the U.S. we have the freedom that they don’t in sand-land. But they seem to have a lot of freedom to run about killing people and engage in all-out destruction all in the name of allah. If you have never been there, you would have a hard time understanding their very parochial attitudes. As to the aspect of antagonizing the sand-people and knowingly doing so? I’m all for it. They are already angered and have been so since the end of the Crusades. Fundamentally, they believe in a caliphate that will “bring peace to the world”. Well, I’ve seen their version of peace and I’ve seen the West’s version of peace. I prefer the West, overwhelmingly.
It’s not a worthwhile objective, it’s a silly objective, one that you get when you engage in the ludicrous exercise of “nation building.” If the success of your mission depends on whether you can keep indigenous public opinion on your side you have all the evidence you need to cease, desist and leave. There’s no nation there to build and there’s no public opinion in a Muslim country that’s worth having on your side, short of wholesale apostasy on the part of the locals.
I like Gen. Petraeus and don’t think he should throw himself on the PC sword and it’s great if he said what he said to, in fact, calm that bucket of steam known as Afghan public opinion. Still, we don’t have to ignore the illogic of the argument that thousands of mujahadin with all kinds of weapons and fanatical desire to kill GIs amply demonstrated over the last 10 years are now REALLY cross with all Americans because of Pastor Jones and NOW, yes NOW our troops are in extra special danger.
“Jones put on his little pantomime with the very reasonable expectation that it would provoke the same sorts of riots that led to people (western, non muslim people) being killed and injured in the past. That’s why he did it. And the only point of it seems to have been to demonstrate that he could get away with it (oh, and stay in the limelight, which is hard to a theologically ignorant fundamentalist priest to do many other ways).”
That is your opinion. My opinion is that he did it to point out brutality and horror of all that is islamists. He provoked them, yes. But world needs to understand who we dealing with. Despite of MSM spin that this is all Jones’s fault, I hope that enough people will put the blame where it belong – to people who did the murders, no the person who burned single book.
Pretty well said, except that Jones’s primary motivation appears to be to call attention to himself, not to cause anything abroad. That he and others think what he does is actually known by the people who riot is probably wrong; they are stirred up by agitators who say Americans desecrate and destroy the Holy Koran. Just as many readers of this website (judging, perhaps unfairly, by the comments) are stirred up by what they think is happening somewhere. Most Afghanis probably spend too much of their time trying to stay alive to worry about the Terry Joneses of the world. Petraeus’s error, IMHO, is to treat the Joneses of the world as worthy of notice. Better if he had said that America is a nation of hundreds of millions, which by necessity includes a few mental defectives, knaves, and fools, and even some downright evil and wicked people, and doesn’t deserve to be judged by the acts of those few.
The Koran is a collection of vicious filth. I tossed my copy into an abandoned septic tank, where it could commingle with materials of similar ilk and quality. It contains repeated exhortations to enslave, rob, kill all non-moslems. Why would a sane, decent person show respect for a book which advocates gross criminal activity? Islam is founded solely on the Koran and some supplementary materials, all of which advocate an international criminal conspiracy to control the world, implying the theft of our constitutional rights. Why would we want to show respect for criminal behavior? To placate the criminals? To appease the terrorists? To honor a crazy, raghead robber, child molester and murderer? To worship a ficticious pagan moon “god”? Wake up and grow up!
The Koran and the cult based on it were, and still are, a mechanism to motivate and facilitate Arab imperialism. That is a simple fact of 1400 years of history.
Christianity was used by the Spanish as a justification for conquest of Amerindian populations, ostensibly to bring them the benefits of salvation, but without any holy mandate for conquest. How much more effective in motivating the masses is a book, the Koran, that explicitly calls for conquest and conversion of the conquered.
Terry Jones is no bigot. He has the courage to tell the truth.
Where was General David Petraeus when the military chaplains in Afghanistan were ordered to confiscated Bible printed in local languages?
Has he ever said anything about the Saudi policy to have the police routinely confiscated Bibles and destroy them?
“Patriot”? Not so much in my book, if we are asking ‘was this action a patriotic’ action. This was a personal thing he did. To be patriotic you have to act beyond yourself and FOR Americans and the nations best interest. This Bozo did neither.
Quite the contrary.
He’s telling an important truth that the vast majority of American political and religious leaders don’t have the guts to express. If we don’t understand and embrace this truth we will fail in the fight of our lives.
5. Techno writes:
“This whole line of argument is just childish.
In the real word, consequences matter. Petraeus is trying to win a country from the bad guys without having to decimate its population. If you don’t think that’s a worthwhile objective, just say so.”
What a wonderful Utilitarian you are. Too bad, for you, that Utilitarianism is only one way of addressing moral questions. Utilitarianism is particularly weak on integrity. I doubt that you know what that means. Integrity is letting people know who you are and what you stand for. It is sad that our president and many other elected officials do not know who they are and what they stand for. That is really sad because it is their duty to let the world know what America is and what America stands for. Part of American integrity is the promise that we are a secular society. Not a secular society when it is convenient or helpful in negotiations, but a secular society that stands on principle. Every American who is worth the name knows that it is his duty to refrain from demanding that others respect his religion. That is what secularism means. We must broadcast to the world that secular is what we are. Anything less would be a lie and a demonstration that we lack integrity. We burn Bibles, The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Quran. That is who we are. It was written into the Constitution of the United States from day one. I have sworn to defend that Constitution with my life. I want everyone in the world to know that. If you are an American, you should want the world to know the same about you and your country.
“What a wonderful Utilitarian you are. Too bad, for you, that Utilitarianism is only one way of addressing moral questions.”
Agreed. But I still think that if somebody does something knowing that it will lead to people being killed, that person is in some way responsible. Probably not in any legal sense, but definitely in a moral sense.
“I have sworn to defend that Constitution with my life. I want everyone in the world to know that.”
Ok, fair enough. So you’ll answer yes to the following questions:
(1) The organizers of the “ground zero” mosque have (and deserve) the same right to go ahead build without any unusual impediments or restrictions from any branch of government, and they deserve the same legal protections from persecution that any other religious institution has.
(2) You support the right of protesters to burn the American flag, any time they like, anywhere they like, so long as they don’t cause physical harm to anyone or their property. Anyone attempting to prevent them from doing so is legally and morally guilty of any crimes which might apply – assault, theft, trespass etc.
(3) The Westboro Baptist Church is just fine and dandy and should keep doing their thing without restrictions. No, not “they have that legal right”, but that they SHOULD keep doing it. Because that’s what America is about.
(4) It is meaningless and wrong to accuse anybody of “giving aid and comfort to the enemy” if they criticize the president, or give vocal support to the nation’s enemies. In fact, I should be able to take out a full-page advertisement in the wall street journal attacking the US’ policies with respect to Iran, calling the president anything I like.
(5) Somebody who shouts “fire” in a crowded theater should not be held responsible for any injuries which occur in the rush.
(6) Nobody should ever be sanctioned for antisemitic speech or actions, just as long as they don’t cause injury to individuals or their property.
(7) Sedition is a meaningless word.
(8) There should be no laws against “fighting words” or obscenity.
And where do you stand on fake bomb threats?
If the answer is “no” to any of those, I have to ask … are you a Utilitarian or something?
Mr. Betrayus swore and oath to defend the US constitution. He has no constitutional authority to chastise Mr. Jones, nor does anyone else who believes in the document.
“How long is the West going to remain hostage to the primitive sensibilities of illiterate thugs in the Third World?”
This is the real question in my mind. I admire Jones for having the guts to stand up to the demands of the barbaric death cult. We’re in a war of civilizations, we’re not going to win it be being subservient to the enemy.
The idea that if I draw the wrong cartoon or burn some pages of a book that I am somehow responsible for the deaths of others is laughable.
The barbaric death cult is just going to have to get used to the fact that many of us will not be bowing down to their thuggish demands.
“We’re in a war of civilizations, we’re not going to win it be being subservient to the enemy.” The word we are looking at here is subserviant.
The word is “dhimmitude” and comes from dhimmi, an Arabic word meaning “protected”. Dhimmi was the name applied by the Arab-Muslim conquerors to indigenous non-Muslim populations who surrendered by a treaty (dhimma) to Muslim domination. Islamic conquests expanded over vast territories in Africa, Europe and Asia, for over a millennium (638-1683). The Muslim empire incorporated numerous varied peoples which had their own religion, culture, language and civilization.
The next part of this comparison of the word subserviant and dhimmitude
is in the last sentence “Muslim Empire incorporated”. How? Go back in time and read history. Also the Ottoman Empire was not dissolved until after WWI.
Thank you Exceller for the comment. It opened a door.
If the Afghans can’t accept or handle one of the bedrock principles of a Democracy, which is free speech, how are they going to have a democratic form of government themselves? The simple answer is they can’t. Democracy will never flourish in a closed tribal Islamic society like Afghanistan. Never. We are spitting into the wind here, folks, and this simply shows how backward, intolerant, and barbaric the Afghan people are. You can’t reason with people who behead other people for no good reason, let alone for some imagined slight to Islam. We will win no wars there. At best, they will tolerate us until we leave, and then they will revert back to their old ways, probably embracing the Taliban AGAIN. What a worthless “country” that is. Not worth any more of the massive blood and treasure we are putting into it.
Agree!
You can lead a horse to water…
Obviously they cannot. They have neither the desire nor the tradition of Democracy.
In point of fact – as seems to be the case with every single Muslim nation we’ve ever involved ourselves in – even our Muslim allies barely tolerate us, and really just want us to leave, so they can get back to living in the 7th century.
Techno, Afghanistan is backward sewer of viciousness. We are wasting American lives in a farcical effort towards establishing representative democracy among a people incapable of practicing it and antagonistic toward the very ideals that informed its development. Islam is a retrograde ideology antithetical to progressive human development as anyone in the civilized world would recognize it. Islam is an enemy of human progress and the pastor is hero for having the courage demonstrate his entirely correct and admirable distain for this terrible ideology. Patraeus’ chagrin is understandable of course, the koran burning doesn’t help his hopeless effort to civilize the savages. However, Jone’s efforts may do more to save American lives in the end by helping Americans realize that the model of war learned in WWII does not apply if you are unwilling to attack the ideology that drives the aggression of the enemies.
12. Sam
“We are wasting American lives in a farcical effort towards establishing representative democracy among a people incapable of practicing it and antagonistic toward the very ideals that informed its development.”
So bush was wrong, then? And iraq is bound to fail?
“Islam is an enemy of human progress and the pastor is hero for having the courage demonstrate his entirely correct and admirable distain for this terrible ideology.”
Yep. Screw the dead people – their deaths served a high cause, whatever that might be. Their families should be glad it was them.
“Jone’s efforts may do more to save American lives in the end by helping Americans realize that the model of war learned in WWII does not apply if you are unwilling to attack the ideology that drives the aggression of the enemies.”
Nobody is applying the WWII model here. The WWII model of war had nothing to do with “attacking the ideology”. It was a fight of materials and lives and territory. That’s useless for the GWOT, because the enemy isn’t delineated by a country or a city. There’s nothing to carpet-bomb.
“We are wasting American lives in a farcical effort towards establishing representative democracy among a people incapable of practicing it and antagonistic toward the very ideals that informed its development.”
“So bush was wrong, then? And iraq is bound to fail?”
Yes, Bush articulated and pursued a strategy that is bound to fail by assuming that the savagery and impulse to mass murder found throughout the Moslem world is due something other than the religion itself. As if we could have fought the NAZI’s without attacking the ideology. The whole idea that all people want and value ‘freedom’ as we understand the term is unsupportable. Obama is even stupider and adds heaps of cynicism to brew by promising to stop the failed strategy to get elected but actually doubling down and intensifying the war.
“Islam is an enemy of human progress and the pastor is hero for having the courage demonstrate his entirely correct and admirable distain for this terrible ideology.”
“Yep. Screw the dead people – their deaths served a high cause, whatever that might be. Their families should be glad it was them.”
If you are going lo live among Moslems you should arm yourself and be prepared to defend your life at all times. A point that should be obvious to anyone at this point. I feel for these victims of Moslem savagery but I don’t assign blame to Jones for their murderous cruelty.
“Jone’s efforts may do more to save American lives in the end by helping Americans realize that the model of war learned in WWII does not apply if you are unwilling to attack the ideology that drives the aggression of the enemies.”
“Nobody is applying the WWII model here. The WWII model of war had nothing to do with “attacking the ideology”. It was a fight of materials and lives and territory. That’s useless for the GWOT, because the enemy isn’t delineated by a country or a city. There’s nothing to carpet-bomb.”
I have to correct you and suggest you do a little more reading about WWII, maybe you could start with contemporary Bugs Bunny cartoons, but I assure you the ideology of our enemies was attacked relentlessly on many fronts both at home and more importantly among the conquered. There is no problem establishing which countries are of the Islamic sphere. Until Islam is reformed and Islamic leaders control their blood thirsty adherents we should segregate the civilized world and the Islamic one. If aggression must be answered it should be in the strictly punitive mode. A containment and segregation policy would allow us to restore our free society and stop instituting ever more heavy handed and totalitarian laws and practices geared toward preventing Islamic mass murderers. We need not tolerate them within our society and it is wrong to do so.
“Yes”
Fair enough, then.
“As if we could have fought the NAZI’s without attacking the ideology.”
Destroy the german state, and the nazis went with it. Take their territory away and it disappeared. That’s the difference. We can bomb any muslim country you like, and militant islam will continue to exist. Say nasty things about it, and it will continue to exist.
“The whole idea that all people want and value ‘freedom’ as we understand the term is unsupportable.”
I disagree. Nobody chooses slavery. At worst, we’ll choose the least-worst options (see hamas), but given a choice every human being will opt for self-determination, the right to choose their leaders and intellectual and religious freedom. What you’re saying was once said about the communist world – yet somehow all those Chinese people are gradually wriggling and squirming more freedoms from their state. We stopped “fighting” the chinese ideology a couple of decades ago, and practically all reforms have happened since then. Russia’s more complex – they don’t seem to be presented with any better options (or even understand that better options might exist), and they still imagine themselves as an oppressed empire, so they favor dictatorial leaders who appeal to that notion. But that’s less ideological than cultural.
“I have to correct you and suggest you do a little more reading about WWII, maybe you could start with contemporary Bugs Bunny cartoons,”
Morale-boosting propaganda at home is hardly “attacking the ideology”. But if you want to see some really good cartoons, check out the stuff Theodor Geisel did at PM. He published a cartoon a couple of days before pearl harbor that will take your breath away – apparently HE saw it coming.
“but I assure you the ideology of our enemies was attacked relentlessly on many fronts both at home and more importantly among the conquered.”
After the war ended, the regime was indeed taken to task. By that time, the nazi regime had already well and truly been discredited among the german-speaking population by high explosives from planes and russian artillery. But those trials were a great moment, satirised in a very popular pythonesque production held in iraq after the capture of saddam.
.”..would allow us to restore our free society and stop instituting ever more heavy handed and totalitarian laws and practices geared toward preventing Islamic mass murderers.”
Oh, don’t be silly. Those totalitarian laws and practices aren’t there to prevent islamic mass murderers. They’re there to be SEEN to be preventing islamic mass murderers. It’s theater. If that times square bozo is the enemy, then the war is won.
The fact that the ever-increasing physical security measures shovel a truckload of money to companies and institutions close to the political system is surely a coincidence.
This reminds me of the abusive husband who tells his wife, afterwards, “you made me beat you”. It wouldn’t have happened if…the meal were hotter…the shirt was hung correctly…you hadn’t given me that look.
I suspect that the Imams who incited the rioters to attack the UN compound had their reasons for wanting THAT compound attacked. That the actions of an insignificant “lone wolf” preacher, ridiculous or not, was the perfect excuse to use for that purpose. Knowing full well that Western apologists would help in blaming the preacher rather than the murderers.
I despise book burning. I don’t like Jones. But I’m waiting to hear a concerted cry of “that’s just crazy what those people did” because of his actions. As a matter of fact, I’m becoming convinced that, like mass hysteria, there is “mass insanity”, and it resides in the moslem world. If any people can be called rabid, it is them.
And if we loudly proclaim Jones to have been wrong, and swear we will never do anything to make them mad again…they will continue to kill anyway, because that’s what they WANT to do.
“This reminds me of the abusive husband who tells his wife, afterwards, “you made me beat you”. It wouldn’t have happened if…the meal were hotter…the shirt was hung correctly…you hadn’t given me that look.”
Then you need to think harder. The analogy is bogus. The rioters aren’t harming the guy who burned the koran – they’re attacking innocent people on the other side of the world. And they’ll do it again next time. It’s not a situation like the abused wife’s, where he can’t win, that the riots will happen anyway. I repeat – there are people who are quite capable of arguing with islam, loudly and stridently, without fear of harm. Go watch some of jay smight’s videos – he actually stands in public, in the center of london, surrounded by mouthy muslims (and england’s mouthy muslims are a fair bit scarier than the ones in the US), and tells them their religion is bogus, with references. They don’t attack him – they argue back. He posts shouty videos online (some of them are very good), and they post video responses. That’s “free speech” in action.
There is no problem with actual debate here. The problem is that jones hasn’t actually got anything to say, so he stages a high-profile act that’s calculated to do nothing but inflame, knowing that it’ll be picked up and exploited by leaders who want excuses.
If christians went on killing sprees because of burned bibles I’d be just as derisive of people who did that. Consequences matter. It’s not Big, Brave or Clever to pick fights that put other people in harm’s way. You’re perfectly safe in your mum’s attic on an internet connection. In the real world there are real people trying to fix real problems, and jones is getting them killed.
I think I’ve figured out your (collective) problem. A massive reality deficit. You’ve never actually been in danger or fought for anything, and you think that adolescent door-slamming is taking a brave stand. Just as long as somebody else has to pay to fix the door.
People being killed and maimed is not trivial or inconsequential. That’s all that jones is achieving. He has that right, but he’s basically attention-seeking lowlife for doing it. And I dare say that if he actually thought there was any chance of that fallout ever touching him personally … he’d go very very quiet.
I suppose you can enter his head and divine his motivations simply from seeing him on CBS. He couldn’t possibly be attempting to edify his congregation on the evils contained in Mohannod’s masterpiece. I bet he even called Karzi on the phone to let him know he had done it for maximum effect.
If the situation were reversed and a Christian bible was burned in a mosque by radical muslims, the left would call that “freedom of speech” and a legitimate protest.
The American left believes that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. The enemy of the American left is, from their point of view, America itself. We are seeing a low-key revolution right here in the USA. The left (call them socialists/Marxists/communists/progressives) want to fundamentally transform the USA into something other than a capitalist free-market system, probably into a hybrid socialist country.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend does not check out across the board. The Bolshevik revolutionist uses that to exploit the enemy of their enemy so they do all the heavy lifting and when done and exhausted provide little resistance to the Bolshevik take over. I think this term is a better description than calling them Communists. Communism makes promises that cannot be fulfilled. The Bolshevik does not intend to fulfill those promises but to take full control. There is no love for or fellowship with Islam but they are still “The enemy of my enemy.” which is captalism.
The Bolshevik is not the source of Muslim violence but they can and do fan the flames.
Listen to yourself. Do you truly believe that this type of behavior is rational in any sense of the word. Terry Jones may be a radical himself, but not even nearly as whacked out as the responses he elicited. Like Matt Patterson’s article indicates, the Koran is a book, just as the Bible is. The point that is being made is that the Bible is about Christianity while the Koran is about Islam. This country was built on the principles of Christianity, not Islam. The elites of this country and General Petreus have all gotten so politically conscious that Christian principals are being trodden upon and cast aside just so the radicals don’t get upset. Look at the country today. We are being forced to accept alternate life styles that are not in step with Christian values, denied the opportunity to pray or display prayer and Christian icons in public ceremonies, forced to condone murdering of fetus’ through abortion, belittled by our current president on protocals on honoring our flag. Enough is enough. The United States has always been the land of opportunity, where one came for religious freedom, not to impose their ideal upon the majority.
They’ve (liberals) been chipping away at our public observances of our faith for decades and if we state that we’d like to bring any aspect back we are quickly shouted down as wanting to install a theocracy.
They call us the American Taliban and listening to them you know they’d slit our throats in a heartbeat – they hate us that much.
Can just imagine if this kind of thinking was around in 1942. Would the elites of today were around in 1942 object to the burning of Mein Kampf,the bible of National Socialists?
“Can just imagine if this kind of thinking was around in 1942. Would the elites of today were around in 1942 object to the burning of Mein Kampf,the bible of National Socialists?”
Just to draw attention to the bogus premise of your question, the “elites” I assume you’re speaking of were opposed to the nazis back then.
The elites of the 30′s were the industrialists and the political right, and they thought mr hitler had some very interesting ideas … on industry, society and economics, obviously. I don’t know how the elites of the time would have reacted – I suspect they’d have simply started printing more copies so they could sell them to the book-burners.
But if burning hitler’s book led to americans being killed in riots in in berlin, and assuming the papers bothered to report on it, I think there might have been a bit of a backlash. And give that the backlash will have been largely against unionists and socialists, I doubt you would have had a problem with it.
The German Workers Socialist Party that espoused an all powerful central government were such fine libertarians. Then you have the gall to chastise someone for “misunderstanding” an issue.
He’s a crazy leader of a tiny cult in Armpit, Florida. Thanks to his craziness, he is now an international news item (I hesitate to use the word ‘celebrity’)because of the furor whipped up around him by the usual gang of pack journalists. If a tree falls in a forest….if a book is burned in Florida. You get the idea. He has the right to be stupid and hateful. We have the right to ignore his antics and shun him. And please, don’t call him a Christian.
Ah. The Christian-as-rag-doll school of thought. Christians should be spineless and utterly passive in the face of relentless attacks on the faith.
“was hateful, it was intolerant and it was extremely disrespectful and again, we condemn it in the strongest manner possible.”
Absolutely. It is the duty of every Christian to love evil, respect evil, and tolerate evil. Oh, wait. No it isn’t. The duty of everyone is clear: oppose evil, denigrate evil, banish evil.
I don’t support Jones, really. His burning was unaesthetic. I support Dung Koran, Piss Koran, Menses Koran! I writing an iFart Koran app!
Mr. Jones is a self-centered little man. I don’t think his burning of the Koran was a good idea, but he has an absolute right to burn it. The self-centered, nasty “journalists” that covered this story are as much to blame for murder as and pathetic Mr. Jones. If Petreus is passing blame around why did he leave out the new media that made this a big deal.
Petraeus was concerned that the book burning would increase the risks for the US military in Afghanistan. If it increases the risks even more and they decide to bring the troops home, that would be a good result. One private citizen in Florida expresses free speech and a bunch of idiots on the other side of the planet start killing people? I can’t remember why the troops are in Afghanistan. Wasn’t someone planning/building a pipeline? The Soviets gave up for a good reason. I have visited Russia many times in the last few years, and you still see men with no legs wheeling themselves about on wheeled platfroms and begging for money. A Russian friend told me they are Afghan war veterans.
I’ll go download one now to my harddisk, then send it to FileShredder:)
People can’t be replaced. Books can be reprinted, read on the internet for free, or even physically received for free (especially if a gift from a religious group:) )
Let’s get this straight. Charlie Sheen can publicly call Mrs. Palin a whore and Todd Palin doesn’t get to punch his lights out but if Terry Jones burns a book … people die with liberals’ complete sympathies? It doesn’t seem like Jones is that bright but I thought even a dumb guy’s speech was protected. At least, Letterman and Sheen seem to get a pass.
Screw him. His job is to kill people and win a war. Not to tell anyone they are not being nice. I’m tempted to burn a Koran and post video of it. In fact, I think maybe we all should. Maybe eventually, people will figure out that burning a book does not equal provocation to kill people. Hey General! How about condemning the people who kill innocent victims instead of people who haven’t hurt anyone?
I agree – and it might even make up a good war strategy! Americans (or any westerner will do) burn korans daily and the Afghans go killing each other while our troops stand back and watch. Soon they’ll run out of people to kill!
Exactly my thoughts. I supported Jones when he first wanted to burn the koran, and was horrified to see him attacked by our citizens, govt., and get a visit from the FBI. Are we a police state already?
I knew then what he wanted to do – point out the absurdity of the US position on muslims. Our position is compliance with them at the expense of our liberty. We must be tolerant, they have no such obligations. We must change out behavior or risk death. I can’t believe our populace can be this ignorant, but I guess that’s what federal education will do for you.
I totally agree and recommend everyone see Ann Barnhardt’s videos 1 & 2, where she tears Lindsey Graham a new orifice, and tells Petraeus off, and the read, comments, and burns the Koran. Some people have principles, some do not. Graham and Petraeus do not-they are mere puppets trying to get reelected and keep their jobs. I’ve had enough as well. Why is it OK to kill Christians, burn Christian Churches and burn Bibles, but one cannot insult Islam in any fashion. Time for Mohammed to smell the bacon.
I inexplicably decided to re-watch People vs Larry Flynt this week and that movie seems to fit this entire boondoggle.
May not agree with what he’s doing or how he’s doing it, but this is a straight-to-the-core 1st Amendment thing. This crazy bassard is being persecuted defending OUR Rights. This is especially elevated in this world climate where you already have all sorts of restrictions and serious criminal penalties for ‘offensive’ speech in Europe and they’re trying VERY hard to do it at the UN level. Of course, screaming bout killin Da Joos is all ok, especially at the UN level.
Other notes. Burning books is always bad. It’s a visceral thing for me. A kind of sacrilege. A High Crime against Knowledge and Culture. Jones has a right to do it, and I have the right to scream that he’s a friggin moron but that’s a far cry from killing people.
There is a mass insanity in the Muslim world. It’s been documented through polls(sky-high superstition,the belief that Da Joos obviously have magical powers..which is something shared by the MSM) and could also be explained by the documented sky-high inbreeding(which doesn’t explain the MSM and makes the first bit more inexplicable).
“Terry Jones may be a bigot, but that is hardly the point.”
Would you say this if he burned a copy of Mine Kampf? The NAMBLA handbook on how to seduce children?
Even though you had the fortitude to write this article you still don’t get it. You don’t get it because you probably have no religion of your own. Any actual christian has NO respect for the Koran. Any more than he would have for the writings of a satanic cult … which is what islam is in fact.
Now on the grounds of tact I suppose we should not burn korans. We need that oil. Burning them probably would not make any points with the slaves of mohammed. Once we’ve pumped out most of their oil I suggest we declare war on every muslim country. After all … THEIR religion demands war against the whole world. We should take them seriously until they actually moderate their ignorant religious beliefs.
definitely a case of casting pearls before swine. Know the attributes of the beast before going to contend with him. The ignorance of this society and its 7th century mind view is only paralleled by the ignorance of the American ruling class with it’s own opaque blinkers.
“How long is the West going to remain hostage to the primitive sensibilities of illiterate thugs in the Third World”?
Until you can hear a pin drop.
You were doing fine until you felt obliged for some reason to do exactly what you’re complaining about by calling the HEROIC Terry Jones a “bigot”…
“Terry Jones may be a bigot…”
You sound like that jack-ass Patreaus. What evidence do you have of Mr Jones being a bigot? I’ve listened to him on several occasions and he’s never uttered one “bigoted” syllable.
Terry Jones is INDEED an American hero. We all need to start realizing this is a real war and the attacks will continue to be made on the “edges” of our freedoms. And if we don’t stop it RIGHT NOW – we’ll suffer the same fate as the European countries.
Amen, brother. I find it amazing that so many commenting are eager to be dhimmis by vilifying Terry Jones. Such reactions on the part of Muslims proves Jones’ point, and do the reactions of American dhimmis.
This is not the first book burning. I do not see the spirit of Christ in this act for it lacks Christian charity. The Muslim leadership, like the pharisees of Jesus day, did not want to yield their authority to Jesus. Neither do the Imams but in the long run they have no choice.
~ Jer 36:1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.
3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.~
Here we have the writing and the reason of the writing. It was a message of security. An invitation of love showing that the Lord did not condone nor excuse iniquity but would forgive those who chose to do better by leaving their iniquity behind. Ezekiel 18 gives more detail.
~ Jer 36:15 And they said unto him, Sit down now, and read it in our ears. So Baruch read it in their ears.
16 Now it came to pass, when they had heard all the words, they were afraid both one and other, and said unto Baruch, We will surely tell the king of all these words.~
As the words of Jeremiah were read in the ears of the people it caused quite a stir and the matter was taken to the king.
~ Jer 36:22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him.
23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
24 Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, neither the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words.
25 Nevertheless Elnathan and Delaiah and Gemariah had made intercession to the king that he would not burn the roll: but he would not hear them.~
Not much different than our daily news reports and our leaders turn their backs to our guiding principles and beliefs while accepting that which has no real power.
~ Jer 36:27 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,
28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.
29 And thou shalt say to Jehoiakim king of Judah, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast burned this roll, saying, Why hast thou written therein, saying, The king of Babylon shall certainly come and destroy this land, and shall cause to cease from thence man and beast?~
Quite a bit of Scripture I know but how else to show that the burning of the scroll had no effect on the content of the scroll but did condemn the burner. Then there is another report of book burning in Acts.
~ Ac 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.~
These were converts to Christ from a heathen background and I understand this to be books they owned but had no place in their curent life. The fact that there was no demand for the silver shrines to Diana due to this conversion caused Demetrius, the silversmith, to mount a grievous riot at Ephesus, much on the order of Jones burning the Koran. Yet Paul was not preaching that the Ephesians who believed in Diana could not have a silver shrine. I am not saying the Muslim should not have access to the Koran but that the Koran will bow to the Bible when we consider both messages.
~ 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,~
This should be our message to the world. There is a better way but our flesh blocks it. That way has never been available to unbelief.
What is “morally unsavory” and Jones, and why is he a “bigot.”
What is “morally unsavory” about Terry Jones? and why is he a “bigot” in your eyes?
“How long is the West going to remain hostage to the primitive sensibilities of illiterate thugs in the Third World?”
Answer: as long as the American Constitution doesn’t extend to the middle east. Our Constitution isn’t holding us hostage, our immigration bureau is. The videos on youtube should be burning an immigration bureaucracy pamphlet. Open up your eyes and look at the ads on the top, sides and bottom of this very website and hundreds of others when the topic is immigration and sse all the lawyers and businesses who claim to get you into the West with no problem. These jihadists need to be quarantined not have books burned at them from half a world away.
Go to any American consulate in the middle east and look at the endless lines day after day and the stories about ‘lotteries’ and how the American gov’t pays for their transition into American life. If I want to get into the American Embassy in Cairo I have to wait an hour at least and I can’t bring even a flash drive cuz our new cousins are nuts.
In the early 1980s, the American Embassy in Rio de Janeiro was an open building with 2 Marine guards standing outside the embassy in dress uniform. Today it is a fortress and you have to give over any bags to some guy on the street not associated with the embassy who puts them in some lockers. Then you have to talk to people through glass and none of them are American. No Marine guards would be allowed outside and in uniform – the idea is laughable nowadays. There is only one reason for that – just one.
Wake up and see that all that security home and abroad from the Superbowl to an airlines is because of violent muslims who are blithely let into the U.S. as if they were just ma and pa and the mountains of security across this planet simply a weird coincidence disengaged from the reality that is Islam. Our immigration bureaucracy is just as disengaged from this reality and they are the true enablers and EXACTLY why Jones and Barnhardt exist. I am searched by the TSA like everyone bears the blame for what one religion does as America desperately clings to the illusion that profiling is evil and invokes racism to keep us quiet. Just relax we are told, you’ll see that muslims are just like anyone else if you wait long enough – you’ll see – have faith in cultural relativism. Empiricism says something else but what we see with our eyes and what is plucked from our wallets for security is not real they say.
Normally this woulda, coulda, shoulda, scenario defending Jones is a liberal mantra; I am surprised to see it coming from the Right who constantly harp on the value of reality – but then I guess it’s no surprise this is coming from religion, the multi-reality neighborhood. Small gov’t and reality butt up against pie in the sky and aliens behind that sky and surprise, there’s a problem. Have faith, worship, enjoy, keep it out of my face and don’t kill people with it and then hide behind a secular document that excludes you out of the larger political dialogue for the very reason of what is happening on this issue.
One doesn’t play Scrabble with people’s lives. There is what is and what should be. It needs to be worked out in another arena and in another way. The idea that American religions are THE religion is silly and invoking the name of Satan as if he were as real as a shrub or rock is why America was so careful about at once respecting freedom of worship but keeping it the hell out of the political arena.
I can go to church, the church can’t come to me. The latter idea is why there are so many problems in the middle east. Take your religious wars and shove ‘em – a long way – from me. And don’t you dare use the Constitution as a cover for your proselytizing. Fanatics need to be reigned in not celebrated as heroes. What hero is there in American history who is in a painting holding up burning books like Jones and Barnhardt? John Brown?
This is a learning moment – be an American – do what you say others can’t – learn. I was fooled for awhile but now I see where this is really coming from. You’re asking me to fight Satan who in turn calls us “The Great Satan” and it never ends.
To channel Roger Waters, the Christians kill the Jews and the Jews kill the muslims and the muslims kill the Christians and the Jews…
If one can argue our immigration and visa policies helped enable the deaths on 9/11 then one can certainly see the connection between Jones and murder in Afghanistan. I’m saying you’re backing the wrong argument in the wrong place.
The real faith based religion that also has multi-realities disengaged from cause and effect are the views behind our immigration policies – this is what is causing the clash of civilizations in America and it is politically correct liberalism. You can’t fight morons overseas and make them Jeffersonians – the idea is written off as ridiculous in regards to Egypt on these very pages. So take the fight to where it’ll matter – our mysterious and low profile immigration bureaucracy with unknown mandates from unknown people – publicize that not empty gestures backed by the power of worship. Pray at the immigration bureaucracy all you want – faith is an enabler not an earth moving machine. It can enable for both good and ill.
The POINT of burning the koran was to demonstrate the barbarism of islam. The good General should remember what side he is on.
I find it unbelievable how many of you are dismissing Jones or Petraeus as a simple nut-job – or worse – but have no words of condemnation for the idiots at the end of this chain reaction – those idiots in Afghanistan who actually killed or maimed others.
Free speech is like a gun – it has never killed anyone.
Islam is the obvious enemy.The tactics of its condemnation and the war must be well thinked over.The burned Koran is the Muslims` win.
This video by a courageous patriot seems to be under a media blackout.
No, Rev. Terry is not a patriot. He is a bigot, but bigotry is a protected status in America.
We are a country based on a philosophy that speech is free, and anyone who supports that philosophy be it Hillary Clinton or General Petraus IS a patriot. General Petraeus has the same rights of free speech as does any other American. If he believes his words would bring about a diplomatically positive outcome, he has a right to them.
Admittedly, Terry’s actions could make diplomacy a tad difficult, but so can beheading those who do not agree with the prevaling religion.
How is he a bigot? Is the guy who did “piss christ” a bigot?
Islam is an imperialistic ideology – should we call people who burn the communist manifesto bigots? How about flag burners?
To call Terry Jones more patriotic than general Petraeus is the most idiotic and disrespectful comment I have read on the internets in a long time. Terry Jones is an asshat who got good people killed and said afterwards he was satisfied by it. He broke his word to the general by his own admission. Thou shall not lie?
To see the former patriotic right go this down the rabbithole is bizzare.
He (yes – I know I’m feeding a troll) got no one killed. Muslims got muslims killed. Try blaming the people who actually committed the act.
What’s amazing to me is how Jones has ‘rights’ and those ‘rights’ have some sort of unexplained traction overseas yet the thousands of Westerners actually in the middle east have no ‘rights’.
Where are moral and ethical rights in all of this?
The caption at the head of this is absurd considering the context; it is not elites being held hostage but Westerners overseas. I have a feeling there are a lot of military in Afghanistan who’d like to give a boot to Jones for thinking his fight is the only one in the world going on and his ‘rights’ ride above it all. Whenever academics talks and blood is paid it is semantics versus real life and the latter should be the winner.
Screw Jones – let ‘em set hisself on fire – and Ann Google Eyes too. We really don’t need their entirely symbolic gestures defying others to kill Americans. They don’t color it like that cuz they want to stay away from that argument cuz they’re all in velvet smoking jackets in a wood paneled den smoking pipes and harming no one. Just some guys having a talk and throwing books in the fireplace.
As the reverend himself said, western deaths by muslim hands is just what he wants, its his way of fighting islam. If he is able to piss off the locals in some hellhole to kill some aid-workers, then he is successful, because then you get articles like this one claiming he is more patriotic than the US Army, and so on. And the Army has to bleed, and take it, and try to explain why he isnt arrested to the 1000s and 1000s of muslims they work with every day.
I don’t know much about Terry Jones, but in the USofA, we have a Bill of Rights. The First amendment gives each of us the right to burn a Koran anytime we want to, thanks very much. If I had lost a kid at 9/11, I’d probably be burning one every day, in front of the biggest mosque I could find. I’d also be armed.
Jones isn’t a bigot. He expressed ten tons of truth on the topic of the Koran in sorry contradistinction to regiments of educated twerps who for some strange reason have input into our national political discussion. It’s downright refreshing to have someone get some exposure who doesn’t come up with some elegant variant of “down is up.”
You know what’s really refreshing? Breathing. I’ll trade semantic garbage in any ol’ day for the right to breathe.
I know what they say about “Give me liberty or give me death” but to tell you the truth I’d probably convert to Islam on the spot if 12 guys with knives surrounded me and told me to.
Needless to say, that’d be a very bad time to burn a Koran. Unless of course it was somebody else surrounded by 12 guys with knives. Then it goes without saying that death is preferable to a loss of liberty not to mention the horrible specter of not being able to burn a book any time the feeling nudges me.
Jones is doing his best to wake us all up so that you don’t have to ever deal with being surrounded by 12 Muslims offering you death or conversion.
Would “semantic garbage” ever include the verbal expression of your cherished beliefs and values? Would you in all cases give up this semantic garbage to continue breathing? What would you ever refuse to give up at the risk of death? What would breathing be like after you’ve been forced to or willingly gave up what you cherish?
Few hundred years ago, bunch of people in this country had died to give us all, who live in THIS country, rights to burn any book we legally own. So, by your reasoning, those who for whatever reasons decided to live elsewhere can take those rights away from us? How about this – if you want to live in some god-forsaken country where you could be killed just because someone else, completely unrelated to you, did something, that is your own choice. And I am not responsible for your own choices of doing something stupid like this, only you are.
Seems fashionable to not want to offend the muslims of the world, even here more than one post has been censored because of fearful political correctness.
Al-Ahram is reporting that there were protests in front of the Israeli embassy in Giza today and that protesters in the massive event in Tahrir Square burned an Israeli flag. Are they heroes?
Ix-nay on the urning-bay, okay?
I don’t want my ass on the line so you can argue over rights you’ve had since forever. You see, it’s not taking the academic tone over here you are enjoying. If you want to burn stuff come to Cairo and knock yourselves out and warn me when you do it so I can suddenly find something else to do.
Idiots.
If it wouldn’t enrich koran publishers, I’d support a million koran burning march. Although, it probably would be enough to just burn a Harlequin Romance in a plain brown wrapper with Holey Q’U'arAN (or whatever) scribbled on it.
“Let’s not forget what General Patreaus’ job is.”
I’ll tell you what his job isn’t: Telling civilians back in the United States what they can and can’t do.
Yeah, just the ones outside the states who have to have their blood spilled so people with really dilated eyes can have their 15 min. of flame.
There are 50,000 Americans in Egypt alone. Guess what? None of them are your friend or waving Constitutions or saying, “Hey look! Over here! Yeah, me! Your civilization smells like cabbage. Don’t worry or get upset, I have permission from a God and some dead guys in powdered wigs who said so. Yeah, it’s written down and everything and it’s not in some script that looks like a worm trail.”
The man is a Christian. Islam and Christianity are opposite’s. Christian’s don’t kill people of other religion’s. Islam is an evil way of life.
I am extremely outraged, as I am sure most Americans are, that Bibles were burnt by our government.
The U.S. military perpetrated a huge, hostile, EVIL attack against G-D’s Word, the Bible and against G-D Himself. It was also a very vicious attack on Judaism and Christianity.
Just exactly what are the real reasons the U.S. is fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya? It certainly has NOTHING whatsoever to do with justice, freedom and human rights. The hate-filled act of burning precious Bibles is a very powerful proof that the war has nothing to do with those cherished values!
We should not be surprised when severe persecution of Jews and Christians begins in this country.
I regard the U.S. military burning Bibles as satanic. It is HATE for G-D and G-D’s Holy Laws contained in those precious Bibles.
The U.S. military went out of their way to make a statement to G-D, the whole world and the entire Muslim world that America’s government has absolutely no respect whatsoever for G-D and the Bible. What a frightening statement that is.
Mr. Patterson’s rage is understandable and, at first blush, General David Petraeus’ remarks seem reprehensible but there is perhaps something being overlooked. The wars America is fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq are, according to all appearances, to bring democracy to these two countries, clear them of and render them inaccessible to Al Qaeda and their ilk and allow them to flourish and grow in peace and prosperity on their own. It could be argued that this is not the reality of the situation over there but, nonetheless, our military structures its Rules of Engagement according to this doctrine.
So, what does this have to do with the General’s comment? He must follow the ROE established by the Pentagon brass and their civilian masters in the Government. Under Obama, Gates, et al that ROE mandates that American combat soldiers must adhere to extraordinarily prohibitive measures to protect native populations from being fired upon or injured in any way while conducting combat operations.
Can you imagine the stupidity inherent in a policy that gives the enemy a significant strategic advantage at the expense of the blood of our American troops? Where is the concern for these men and women that we throw into life and death situations?
From all outward appearances the General is very much concerned about the safety of all the troops under his command, especially his fellow American troops. He understands, far better than any of us armchair warriors, the box this puts him in. Terry Jones burning of a Qur’an creates a situation, in Afghanistan especially, where ignorant, enraged, maniacal Muslim civilians, the very population that American troops must bend over backwards to protect, will essentially become murderous adversaries intent on killing those hamstrung American troops.
The solution to the General’s problem, America’s problem? Redefine the war to accurately reflect the enemy, political Islam and rescind these stupid, ill advised, Rules of War. The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. Let them do just that. Turning the full force of our American troops with their superior manpower and firepower against ALL resistance, civilian or otherwise, wherever the enemy chooses to hide, will bring the war in Afghanistan to a long overdue end and, most importantly, demonstrate to the enemy, including all those observing on the sidelines, that America is not to be trifled with. Then, amidst world condemnation, declare victory and get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan because we’ve already expended too much blood and treasure attempting to win the hearts and minds of a people that have no appreciation of what a free democracy means in the Western sense. And as for world condemnation? What else is new?
As long as the politically correct, multicultural, pacifist West continues on this lofty flight of illusion believing that all peoples of the world are breathlessly craving the freedoms we enjoy and that wars must be fought on a humanitarian basis the less we’ll be respected and feared, neither of which is desirable in 2011 or the foreseeable future.
Burning books is always bad. It’s a visceral thing for me. A kind of sacrilege. A High Crime against Knowledge and Culture.
While I reflexively share your sentiments as a result of the education I had, I can’t help but wonder just what “Knowledge and Culture” stands to be lost as a result of burning a Koran? I’m at a loss to think of any positive contribution to be found in the Koran.
Which is not to say that I would ever take anyone else’s book away from them, let alone burn it. I did burn a book once but it was my own. It was a dreadfully bad novel that I felt had no redeeming literary merit. I have no regrets over that act.
The koran burner has made himself into a terrible witness. He’ll be known as “the guy who burned the koran” and quite possibly has made things *much harder* for christian missionaries to islamic nations. Not just US missionaries, but ukranian, etc.
All in all a pretty stupid thing. We already knew christians have a big target painted on them in islamic nations, this just made life worse for them.
‘Christian’ missionaries to islam are misguided. Pearls before swine. Muslims know about Christ and they have rejected Him. They know of their own heritage residing in Moses and the prophets and they hate both. I do not believe God requires us to reach such people. Indeed I shake off the dust of my shoes against them.
Did not the Messiah actively veil his message to the religious Jews of his day. Saying to his Apostles he did not want them to hear and understand. He rejected the scribes and pharasees because of all people they should have recognized Him. They knew the time. They knew the lineage. They saw the miracles. Yet they feared and hated ‘That Prophet’ Moses had told them to watch for and listen to when he appeared.
Muslims can plainly see their prophet is a murderer and the religion he brought is one of oppression. They follow him willingly and deserve their fate.
really bad attitude. I won’t even try to relay this attitude to the ukrainian missionaries to iran and syria that our chruch supports. They would definitely disagree with you.
If anything these places definitely *need* to hear a good gospel, not a polluted one.
Interesting points above. Just remember that only pagans can be truly ‘converted’. When natural born Muslims turn to Christianity they are being apostates under Koranic law and hence are free to be eliminated. Preaching to Muslims anything but Koran is heresy and hence punishable. I laud the brave Ukrainians but fact is that Iraq, Syria and other B’aathist nations are not strict Islamic nations but secular-tainted, hence amenable. So also, India.
Refusing to condemn what one finds condemnable is not a guarantee of self-realization on the part of the condemn-worthy.
Let’s face it Islam is a monopolistic siege of the mind.
“God wants ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”; ITim.2.3-4. Our Lord wanted the scribes and pharisees to hear and obey, for He saves those who obey Him, Heb.5.9.Omniscient, He knows in advance who will and who won’t.
To Jim Ramsey: Ann Barnhardt is an absolute gem!!!!!! If only General Petraeus and the rest of our diseased elitist crust of society had her warrior blood.
HERE’S A MODEST PROPOSAL:I think we should contact CAFE press for a production run of bibles,korans and NY times and the Nation ,as well as selected Marxist texts printed on functional toilet paper (non-toxic inks of course); this would go a long way toward making satirical sacrilege a routine event,contribute toward de-sacralizing absurdist,virulent claptrap.
#51 BRIAN: Maybe Christians have a target painted on them because their idiot leader told them to turn the other cheek? Christian missionaries? Are there still such losers? The worst thing the ACLU ever did was to force the government to close the insane asylums.Religious texts SHOULD NEVER BE BURNED!Whenever possible they should be recycled intointo effective toilet paper.
Actually, they may be used to kindle the fires of Hell you are on your way to enjoy eternally. Please see ICor.16.22 for a reality check and consider carefully if an attitude adjustment might not be in order.
Screw the neanderthal, violent muslims and their book of evil written by a pedophile, thieving, murdering freak.
And you people that make excuses for them and are continually harping about “moderate muslims” better wake the hell up. NO SUCH THING!
Stop immigration, deport the ones here and any citizen muslims should be watched closely. Because they are all MUSLIM first! First whiff of collusion to commit violence and off to the internment camps they go.
Or, they could choose a one way ticket to whatever third world shit hole muslim country they want.
BRING ALL OUR PEOPLE HOME, NOW!
Bravo!!! Nothing is more bracing and beautiful than the truth told to a treacherous audience. No one in a leadership position today will state what you have said because it is the unadorned truth. For decades now we have watched the so called cutting edge artists desecrating symbols of Christianity, some with OUR MONEY, and the only ones being castigated were those who protested. Those objecting to the Koran burn were on the front lines defending the Piss Christ as freedom of expression and artistic license. Terry Jones should apply for a government grant and when denied, should sue for discrimination. Isn’t that the leftie way of doing things? Here’s another thought: every time a symbol of a Western religion is denigrated, a Koran should be burned. In fact, had the Piss Christ made its debut now it would provide a wonderful teachable moment. Demands could be made that it be removed or else… there would be mass Koran burnings in the USA. And if they are burned, those doing the burning could blame OTHERS for not removing the offensive art, and thus THEY would be responsible for the inevitable violence of the neanderthals of the Middle East. Let the lefties see what it is like to INDIRECTLY blamed for everything. In fact we could have a giant “Bonfire of the Koranities” – ignited with bacon grease. Of course.
Thank you. All that we now need to say is “Amen”.
Terry Jones knows something all the “talkers” can’t seem to grasp: no matter how hard we try to “win the hearts and minds” of Muslims it will NEVER happen, EVER, unless we convert to Islam and become like them. So he takes a stand, not just for himself, but for all the talkers who will never persuade a single Muslim to put down his hatred of infidels, as well. He is standing up for YOU. Why can’t you stand behind him?
If, and very likely, when the battle comes to you, who would you rather have standing by you, a smooth talker who knows how to make an eloquent apology or a southern good ol’ boy who knows how to shoot?
So … you’re saying that there are no Muslims living in America who don’t secretly want to destroy the country? None at all?
Which of them are making it a secret? All practicing Muslims OPENLY want to destroy the country. Where have you been these last ten years or so?
Even congressman Keith Ellison?
You are pretty funny< Techno, I can almost hear you snickering. Of course Keith Ellison, especially Keith Ellison who would slit your throat the moment the fatwa was issued. Your capacity to contribute to any discussion is exactly the same as Islam's contribution to humanity. Nothing. I wont be wasting any more time with you.
“You are pretty funny”
You’re the one who just became a joke. I think you should go alert your congressman to the imminent threat to the safety of US representatives. Let us know how that goes.
You’re actually trying to support the position that the muslim firefighters who responded on 9/11 are really sworn to destroy america. That muslim doctors are really all just waiting for the call to kill their patients.
“I wont be wasting any more time with you.”
That would be a good idea. You’re digging a deep hole, fast.
terry jones is self serving. BUt i agree with his burning. Pratreus is wrong. This wont incence the enemy any more than anything else we do. pratreus’s prioblems dont stem from jones and the burning koran. it stems from his NOT knowing who is enemy really is and from a govt and president caring more about PC and press releases over solders lives, and winning a war. pratreus needs to understand that these people dont operate by the same rules of war as we do, they dont care about the same things we do and in fact they care and are trying to establish the POLAR opposite of what we are. you cant reason with that you cant make nice with that. its a pos vs a neg, immovable object vs unstoppable force, yes vs no. you either destroy it or get destroyed by it. PERIOD!!! either we learn this simple fact, grow a brain and a sac, and do whatever it takes to win. or we WILL be destroyed and taken over by these people. and all the lil PC liberal bleeding heart kumbaya pussies who believe in this ‘moral equivilency’ crap and thoes who refuse to face facts will find out real quick how right i am. and it will prob be in that few seconds left of conciousness after they cut your head off and it hits the floor!
Clean-up crew in aisle 58, please. A child appears to have vomited on the page.
Alert!!! Trollish Techno-moron.
It’s good for islam to know There are people quite willing to fly an airplane into mecca’s holy rock as suicide bombers for their god and folks like the pastor Terry Jones will do it.
No he’s not a patriot he is a fanatic, fundamentalist for his version of his god and every bit as crazy as the mullahs and ayatollahs in the middle east.
Jones does show islam that, yes The west has it’s religious fanatics too who will burn the koran or burn mecca if they could.
Kinda gives the muslims a hard dose of reality I say.
Have you mentioned this to terry jones?
And do you realize that the “holy rock” in question is smack-dab in the middle of Jerusalem? (ok, it’s not RIGHT in the center). Fly a plane into that, and you’ll probably kill a few Jews praying at the retaining wall to the west a bit. Please – think these things through first.
“Kinda gives the muslims a hard dose of reality I say.”
I’m having a hard time figuring out if your post is satire.
More imbecilic raving form a moron. Google Kaaba. It IS in Mecca, not Jerusalem.
I would suggest you learn a little before correcting wiser commenters.
petreaus is a coward.
It is completely irrelevant to the Islamic, inhuman hate filled murderers that their victims were INNOCENTS who had absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with burning the Koran. They wanted and craved innocent infidel blood.
God’s Biblical Laws are eternal. No man or any religion can change G-D’s Holy Laws! God commanded:
YOU SHALL NOT MURDER
A 2003 fatwa ruled the Bible suitable for use by Muslims when cleaning after defecation.
http://www.meforum.org/2867/jihad-ethiopia-christ…
Bible, Psalm 119:120 My flesh trembles for fear of You, and I am afraid of Your judgments.
Who will dare to treat our Mighty God – Creator of the Universe, with such filth and evil?
Millions upon millions of Christians and Jews must hold PEACEFUL, global massive street protests to PROTEST this absolute evil.
When do we march?
Do you know what a fatwa actually is? It’s basically some guy’s religious opinion. Virtually anybody can write one – although it tends to get more coverage if it’s written by an actual muslim.
The film maker john safran managed, as a joke, to get a fatwa against a TV presenter who once pronounced his name wrong.
Don’t get too excited about fatwas. Look at who’s issuing them first, and whether they matter a hill of beans. The fatwah about rushdie – that mattered a lot, because of who declared it. I very much doubt that muslims worldwide will be rushing out and buying bibles to wipe their bottoms.
Oh, and for goodness’ sake warn the fire department. A million burning korans is going to radiate a fair bit of heat. Might want to alert the FAA about the smoke, too.
This from an Islamic scholar who believes the Kaaba is in Jerusalem.
A Patriot must be ready to defend the country against his or her own government or invading force. Should either threat present itself to the peoples of the Land of America it is a Patriots duty to act. How you interpret that is entirely up to you as an individual in a free thinking free minded society. How History remembers you depends on the measure of success you have in your endeavor and what public opinion was about it at the time. Should this man be willing to die for this country he is as much a Patriot as I. The good General is trying to keep order in a very chaotic situation. God bless you and Your men General America is with you sir.
Pastor Jones deserves a public commendation for putting the lie to the notion that Islam is a religion of peace. Christianity and Judaism are slandered every single day all over the world – but when was the last time you saw Christians and Jews riot in the streets and murder and behead innocent bystanders in retaliation? Islam is a lie straight from the pit and it needs to be fought at every turn.
Thank God someone has the courage to stand up against Islam. Terry Jones is the only pastor who isn’t a cowering hostage to political correctness. Thousands of Bibles have been burned and cowardly Christians say nothing! Pastor Jones is an American patriot and a courageous Christian. His actions were provocative and revealed, once again, the true nature of the followers of Islam. Islam is a religion of violence and war. Moderate moslems support Sharia and Jihad with their silence. Islam has been fighting for caliphate for over 700 years and christians who cower behind political correctness and bow to Islamic violence are making sure that caliphate succeeds.
Jones is having a pay-for-view special where is he going to smoke a Koran in one of those giant hookas followed by wrapping one up in tin foil and putting it in a microwave.
Before that a cute little kitty will fight a scorpion in a fish bowl.
You have to get your money’s worth.
Techno, as a member of the “arrogantzia” you should know that Islam’s Holy Rock is a meteorite in the middle of Mecca. Mohamed’s night journey makes no mention of Jerusalem.
Then call it the Black Stone and there won’t be any misunderstandings.
You might be aware of a thing called the “dome of the rock”? I agree that the historical claim is bogus, but that is what it’s called.
And it’s (probably) not a meteorite.
For the record, it wasn’t me but Hep-t who brought up the Muslim rock, and whom you were trying to ridicule. But I gotta say, you’re alright for a lefty. At least we got you to concede a couple of points.
1. Islam has no claim to Jerusalem and
2. The Black rock is not what the Muslims say it is.
Given these two facts we can reasonably conclude that Islam has no standing as a legitimate religion, and is nothing more than a totalitarian terrorist organization, and whatever hastens its demise is good for mankind. If Pastor Terry Jones actions contribute to the elimination of Islam from the earth then GO PASTOR JONES.
a member of the “arrogantzia”
lol – lol
I’m glad someone had the guts to write this article. The way the Muslim world reacted, we should be burning mountains of Korans, they would kill off each other in the ensuing riots. Or they would learn to be tolerant.
5.56,,,,stops islam on contact,,,stock up people
General Petraeus needs to get a grip! What he said disgraces his uniform and every officer who wears it. When the General took his oath of office he swore to “support and defend” “against all enemies foreign and domestic” “without mental reservation or by purpose of evasion” the Constitution of the United States of America. Like it or not, Reverend Jones was exercising his rights to express himself according to many U.S. Supreme court rulings which also defend the burning of Christian Bibles, the U.S. Flag, and the grotesque display of other defiled icons of the Christian faith in the name of “art”. To say that I am very disappointed in General Petraeus’ behavior in this matter would be an understatement on the order of Noah saying “hey boys, it looks like rain, let’s build a boat”…
What the Koran (a/k/a “Muhammad’s Mein Kampf”) needs is less the flame and more the disinfectant of sunlight. It is to the Jewish and Christian scriptures like something out of “Bizzarro World.”
Dr. Shalit
AWESOME ARTICLE!
We need to have a constant burning of the Koran and have each one posted on You Tube for all of those Satan worshipers to see. Better yet, make an effigy of Mo and burn it too. If they start messing with “WE THE PEOPLE” then we burn their holy sites and mosques. Burn baby burn. “WE THE PEOPLE” can play their game too but better. Have a nice day.
Since the beginning of our country, diverse religions have co-existed in America. Freedom of worship, without any attempt to force individual religious beliefs on others. Unlike Christian religions, Muslim/Islam is an insidious teaching that denigrates women at all levels of existence, inhibit freedom of speech or actions, and is the most suppressive teachings known today.
IMO, Islam is not religion, it is a suppressive teaching created by a “man” centuries ago, in which he created a satanism-type of evil. Until the evolution of modern technology, or unless families were extremely wealthy, Muslims lived in ignorance of how life should be lived. They were robbed of rational thinking, and continued to perpetrate the evil they were taught “by those who are educated”. Islam is about nothing but control. The Islam showing itself is evil, IMO. Those who do not belief in the evil have tried to distance themselves from what they know is wrong. Narcissistic leaders who know nothing but control; killing or maiming people, forcing them to comply with “their thinking”.
IMO, the minister who burned the Koran did so to bring attention to the fact that the minority of Muslims who are “demanding” to change our country, is wrong. IF Muslim leaders were confident their teachings (I cannot call it a religion) were good for people, they would not have to force and bully their ways into our democratic society which they neither understand or like.
“IF Muslim leaders were confident their teachings…”
Additionally if they would allow other religions to compete with them for their followers ( even if they are born lunatics ) they’d compete in the arena of freely exchanged ideas. Once they “allow” the teaching of Christianity, allow the Bible to be read, allow the Torah to be read in everyone of their corrupt fiefdoms…allow the building of churches or temples, I’d then say they are …legitimate. Until then they are doomed to failure and inhuman beliefs as well as acts.
You don’t really know your Christian history, do you?
Like the guy above who said that Christians don’t kill people of other religions. I almost did a spit take on that one.
But yes, I think anyone should be able to read any book, anytime, anywhere, advocate said book anytime, anywhere, and worship as they please (or not at all). But you’re deeply mistaken if you think Christians haven’t been guilty of the same transgressions historically, or that there aren’t plenty of Christians today who would like to do so again (ever heard of Reconstructionists or Dominionists?).
Everyone on the Left thinks it’s just great and a freedom of speech or expression to burn an American Flag or desecrate a Bible. Therefore, fighting fire with fire,…I think this guy is a hero!
FREE SPEACH, LOOK HE COULD HAVE ‘STONED” THE WOMEN IN HIS GROUP? COULD MAKE THEM COVER THEIR FACE, WALK BEHIND HIM? THIS IS AMERICA, STILL?
WE DO LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY…….AS LONG AS HE DIDN’T ”STONE”TO DEATH ONE OF THE WOMEN IN HIS GROUP, ALL IS GOOD…
Please get your priorities aligned with the Democrat/Communist media:
There was an inanimate object set ablaze; Burning people is okay.
Since muslims cherish death more than ‘we’ cherish life, let’s give them their highest, most cherished reward.
It’s them or ‘us’. Black and white; Up or down; In or out; No more than two ways to solve the problem.
They want it kept simple? Why don’t we accommodate them?
This would be the least ‘offensive’ behavior. Remaining apostate only hurts their feelings. Where’s your heart?
To techno, If you dont like my county, pack your bags and leave, take your koran with you,and leave you wellare checks in the USA. every america who burns a koran is a american patriot. Gen Patrus is becoming a bad example of the 101st airborne.we need a new gen patton.
“To techno, If you dont like my county, pack your bags and leave”
Standard answer to everything, hey? Nothing in this thread is about whether I like the USA.
i think it is funny when that preach burn the quran. ha ha. my brother got a few koran books, he is using them for toilet paper. that is also very funny.
I heard the korans printed in any other country than Pakistan, Iran, or Afghanistan were made from recycled pork renderings. Maybe old footballs!
Having the freedom to do something, doesn’t make it the right thing to do. We have the freedom to burn the flag in protest, and I think it is disgusting to do so. Burning the Koran serves no purpose other than to insult Muslims and endanger lives around the globe. It’s the equivalent of placing the cross in a jar of urine and calling it art, or creating a TV show called “Good Christian B1tch3s.” (something currently in the works)
I guess the thinking is…we’ll just degrade their religion until they get tired of rioting and become as listless as the Christians.
However, I find it extremely troubling that our government would participate in burning Arab language Bibles. We’d be better off to print and distribute them.
This is one of those cases where, near as I can tell, most seem to misunderstand the issue. Petraeus’ job isn’t to protect Terry Jones’ right to make an ass of himself. His job is to win the war in Afghanistan, and when asked he responded that Jones’ act had hindered that. Gee, what a shock! What’s he supposed to say, that it helps? That the riots are unrelated to the burning? That it’s OK to kill UN workers, or to incite violence that results in their deaths? How else are you going to spin this? That the Muslims in Afghanistan are crazy? Gee, I didn’t know that…We’re in Afghanistan *because* they’re nuts. Most of the 9/11 hijackers (you remember them, a little incident involving skyscrapers in NYC) had at least spent time in Afghanistan, taking lessons in lunacy. It was then (and as far as I know is now) generally accepted amont ME experts that part of the problem between Afghanistan and the USA was that when the Soviets withdrew, we pulled back and let them stew in their own juices, with a country ravaged by a very long violent destructive war. They came to resent the fact that we only supported them as long as they fought the Soviets, and that we were rather callous once the shooting stopped.
It looks like we’ve almost come full circle. The Rambo-wannabe, “shoot-em-all-and-let-God-sort-em-out” crowd won’t get their way, so we’re not going to bomb Afghanistan back to the Stone Age (they’re not that far from it anyway). If then we decide to run away and hide our heads back in the sand, where it’s “safe”, we presumably will return to a situation where we’ll be as prepared for the next 9/11 as we were for the last…
I guess that oath he took to uphold the constitution didn’t mean anything huh?
The Muslims are still climbing down from the camels. Those who rioted because the Koran was burned didn’t dare attack soldiers, but just civilians. Any excuse will do.