Iran’s Strategic Nuclear Deception
Iran’s satellite launch earlier this month should have been a wake-up call. Instead, the West has reached over and hit the snooze button.
Swift, vigorous measures need to be taken to deal with the new reality that Iranians, who could possess a nuclear weapon by the end of next year, have demonstrated that their Safir 2 rocket, which was used as the launch vehicle, is able to deliver a warhead to southern Europe.
The New York Times reported:
The Iranian rocket had two stages, Mr. [Charles] Vick said. If it were carrying a small warhead, he said, the Iranian missile could fire the weapon about 2,500 kilometers, or slightly more than 1,550 miles. The rocket could send a weapon to targets in Israel, but experts said that Iran had already possessed that capability.
That falls short of the range of an intercontinental ballistic missile, Mr. Vick said. For Iran to achieve that technical step, he added, it would have to develop a more powerful basic rocket or more upper stages — two goals that weapons experts think it is pursuing.
Dr. [Charles] Ferguson of the Council on Foreign Relations said that Iran’s technical advance, if translated into a military missile, might put a warhead within range of southern Europe, including Turkey, Greece, and Italy.
Heritage Foundation senior fellow and former deputy assistant secretary of defense Peter Brookes’ reaction to the launch: “In theory, if you can launch a ballistic missile that can place a satellite into Earth orbit, you have the scientific wherewithal to hit a target anywhere on Earth with a warhead.”
Most Europeans and Americans are not keenly aware that Iran is on track to having the ability to threaten Kuwait City, Riyadh, Dubai, Istanbul, Athens, Rome, Berlin, Paris, London, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles with nuclear weapons. They are oblivious to the ultimate aim of the Iranian nuclear weapons program: to transform Iran into the dominant global superpower by enabling its regime to attain hegemonic control of the petroleum production of all of the Gulf region’s oil states, while preventing the West from taking military action against Iran by deploying missiles that can obliterate Western cities. Instead, Americans and Europeans are under the impression that the program’s main goal is the destruction of Israel.
Excellent article, makes a compelling case. Now if only we can get Western and Israeli leaders to take it read & heed.
Enough with the warmongering please. The facts disagree with you good people at pajamasmedia.
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/2193/iran-panic-induced-by-lousy-reporting
I believe that many western European (and American leftist) leaders would not be all that unhappy if Israel were wiped off the face of the earth and its inhabitants murdered. Anti-semitism has become an ugly fact of liberal-leftist thought, and I suspect that many in this camp falsely believe that Israel is the pricipal destabilizing presence in the Mideast whose demise will bring peace and stability. If the west does not move rapidly to control Iran, the possibility of a mideast nuclear war seems high. Israel will not let itself be destroyed.
I am an Engineer, I have visited Iran 17 times in the last 8 years, the above article does not go far enough, the Iranian people are sheep being educated and brain washed on a scale that has never been seen before, this is the religious/political mixture of a Stephen King nightmare.
THANK YOU. I’ve been trying to say as much and I get labeled as a “whacko extremist” nutter.
As I and many other PJM posters have said…WE ARE AT WAR with ISLAM and anyone who thinks otherwise has their head up their arses.
Hello? If anyone thinks Iranians won’t push the red button and target the USA [hell 911] they are living in a clueless bubble of STUPID coupled with naiveté.
What deception? The only one in my life that believes the nuke only threatens Israel is my 5 month old grand kid.
I don’t believe anyone in the world really buys this nuke is for Israel only. And that’s the scary part as they won’t do anything about it.
How did we ever become so stupid on such a massive scale?
Right, right, right. But the bigger question is not what Iran is doing, it’s what the US ought to do about it. Safely assuming diplomacy is a joke whose punchline is Munich, we are left only with choices within the warfare option: [1] Threatening to removing the nuclear threat from the air; [2] Removing it; [3] Pre-emptive nuclear attack; [4] Decapitation of the Iranian leadership. Off the table: [a] Given our unwillingness to go to conscription to win the Iraq and Afghan wars –the limits of an all-volunteer army are size and quality, which means effectiveness– even the thought of a ground invasion of country as large as Iran is a fantasy; [b] In parallel, economic strangulation of Iran would depend on the cooperation of our allies [unlikely] and our rivals [less likely]. Thus the only options available are within 1-4. Alas, [1] doesn’t work without the will to [2], and [3] can hardly be expected from a regime that is closing down Guantanemo because dozens of innocents [not millions] are suffering. Conclusion: Decapitation is the only option. It may not work, but may tend to concentrate the minds of the surviving Iranian officials [see Qadafi] and/or may lead to a national revolt against the mullahs. Phew! Now, all we have to worry about is Pakistan, nuclear retailer to the Moslem world, and North Korea, the wholesale connection. And those countries not on the list.
Iran must realize that first use of nuclear weapons would also end in Iran becoming a waste land by retaliation.The end game in their minds is probably to hand off nuclear weapons to proxy terrorists which western liberal facists so much adore.
How? because instead of the people standing up and saying enough is enough, do something about this or your getting thrown out of office, we wait around to see while sitting at home on our computers, watching tv. We SHOULD be doing somethign about this our selves. There may be 66 million Iranians, but there are 300 million Americans, with a first and second amendment that works.
Does anyone, including the Iranians, consider the consequenses of exploding a nuclear device anywhere in the Middle East? Recall that the US and USSR agreed stop above ground testing because of the fallout effects. If you look at a map showing the prevailing winds around the world, a nuclear explosion in the Middle East would cause wide spread panic and havoc.
antiNeocon: “Enough with the warmongering please…”
I don’t see anyone “warmongering” here and for you to attempt to convince others of your denial of Iran’s nuclear intent would be comical if it weren’t so dangerous.
David Becker: “If the west does not move rapidly to control Iran, the possibility of a mideast nuclear war seems high. Israel will not let itself be destroyed.”
I think you’re most likely correct but realistically, what are we to do about it? I’m not just being rhetorical with my question but how do we “move rapidly to control Iran”?
And Isreal won’t “let itself be destroyed”, so, why is that a bad thing? Israel whacks Iran; problem solved.
The Iranians have a plan, as the article states, that plan is for Iran to become the controlling regional power in the oil producing ME. In order to do that they have to be able to control the Arabian Sea, in particular they have to be able to prevent a US task force entering the Persian Gulf. The best way to do that is to have the capability of destroying that task force with nuclear weapons. They believe based on their experience of dealing with the US that such a threat would work, and I agree with them. When you look at the list of unpunished outrages committed by Iran against the US (Beirut barracks bombing, Khobar towers, TWA 800 shootdown, IED attacks killing hundreds of US soldiers, etc.) they have every reason to believe we are weak and irresolute, and they are right, the US public is weak and irresolute. They also have the means in place now to destroy Israel (Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) and they are proceeding with this plan unhindered by the US. Israel has just had it’s 60th birthday, it will not see it’s 100th.
Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran! Sing it now!
The near-collapse of the international banking system has had some positive effects – reduced demand for, and hence price, of petroleum. This leads to a financial crisis for Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and others.
As Spengler has pointed out (and have I earlier within Belmont Club comments) – (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/KB18Dj05.html) during tough times, the position of the US IMPROVES compared to just about all other countries. We may suffer a decline in absolute power, but others decline more and our RELATIVE advantages grow.
As to Iranian missile range, obtaining orbital speed does show increased ballistic missile range. However, not all orbital speeds are the same. The Iranians probably only launched a satellite in an equatorial direction and with the direction of the Earth’s rotation. A polar orbit or a counterdirectional orbit would be much more difficult and a real achievement.
While an orbiting nuclear weapon could strike anywhere within the inhabited latitudes, it would be subject to shoot-down by China, USA, and probably Russia. It also would take a longer time to descend and give early warning of its intentions.
Ergo, there is more to be learned (or disclosed) about the actual Iranian capabilities. However, one can summarize the news as bad.
I suggest we consider Grant’s Directive – less worrying about what the enemy can do to us and more thinking about what we can do to them.
Then do it.
From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: warmonger: one who urges or attempts to stir up war.
Iran has been waging a proxy war against the United States specifically, and the West in general, for decades, and now they’re on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons capabilities. If it’s “warmongering” to urge war against Iran, then I’m proud to be called a warmonger.
So many trends and forces are coalescing into a very bad miasma for us and the free world. Many years ago our people would be resolute in their determination to exterminate the threat. But we are now a weakened civilization that seems to be on a suicidal course. This is what the disciples of Antonio Gramsci and Saul Alinsky have achieved. From their place in hell those two must be taunting Josef Stalin and Vladimir Lenin with their success and his ineptitude.
When Iran has the ability to orbit only ONE nuclear warhead, they can devastate the United States.
How? Through the use of an exo-atmospheric EMP (electromagnetic pulse) attack.
Even a low yield primitive nuke, exploded above the United States at the altitude of the Iranian satellite, could cause catastrophic destruction – far more than a few nuclear explosions from warheads hitting US cities via missile or terrorists.
EMP destroys or disables electrical and electronic equipment. It is especially damaging to semiconductor electronics, and the computers that run our society (and even our automobiles) are semiconductor based.
An EMP pulse can generate thousands to tens of thousands of volts in a circuit. Modern computer chips will be destroyed by 3-15 volts.
The pulse can generate millions of amperes of current in power lines, damaging electrical power generation and distribution systems. This would also destroy devices connected to the grid – appliances, factory equipment, food warehouse refrigerators, hospital equipment, water pumps, etc.
If there is even a small chance that deterrence will not work with Iran, we have no choice but to stop their nuclear weapons program, at any cost.
Let’s put the EMP threat into some perspective.
Yes, such an attack would generate a possibly damaging pulse. However, this possibility has been known for over 60 years and measures have been incorporated in most military equipment.
For civilian gear, codes and standards been tightening for protection against radio-frequency interference (RFI) and its generation. That’s why so much stuff has FCC, CEC, and UL stickers or notation on the back. While not perfectly protective against the possibly high voltages generated by EMP, most stuff will see lower threats that existing protection can deal with.
Just look at the detachable power cords on gear. Inside, there are electronic devices to shunt non-60 Hz energy to ground so that it never gets inside the case.
Personally, I’d see an Iranian EMP weapon as a waste of a perfectly good weapon of mass HUMAN destruction. In other words, the Iranian government has better uses for its scarce weapon-grade nuclear materials and delivery devices.
Let me add that power lines also have been protection against EMP than suggested. Some solar storms have done some very limited damage, but efforts have been underway for about a decade to add fairly simple protective devices that will reduce the problems from both EMP and solar storms.
Whitehall,
Yes, the military has strict EMP protection standards. However, the analogous power grid protections are against lightning and other surges, which have different waveform characteristics.
EMI protections, while helpful, are not sufficient in too many cases. The rise time of an HEMP pulse is around a nanosecond, so it has frequency components way past 1GHz. At these frequencies, even a short piece of wire or circuit board trace becomes a sufficient antenna for HEMP – devices don’t need to be connected to anything. The example of power supply filters don’t even try to attenuate UHF frequencies.
Ultimately, it’s all a matter of degree. EMI protections involve attenuation of unwanted signals. If the massive HEMP signal is sufficiently attenuated, then the hazard goes away.
Ironically, consumer gear may be more protected than commercial gear, since it is held to high EMI standards (by the FCC) than commercial gear.
Considering that the military spends a lot of money on HEMP protection, and tests its technologies with expensive HEMP simulators (like the big one at Sandia), the odds that a given non-military device is protected are not that good.
Finally, sufficient disruption of our “just in time” highly urban society would cause massive HUMAN destruction.
Not sure it matters. The Mad Dog Mullahs will eventually have nukes. The only way to stop them is with preemptive military action, which no western politician has the moxie to do.
Once they have nukes it’s only a matter of time until they use them. The Mad Dog Mullahs do not fear death like westerners do.
Any sort of nuclear attack on America will lead eventually to the complete and total destruction of Iran. Same for Israel.
Since the Mad Dog Mullahs claim to not care about that, knowing they are going to heven, it won’t deter them.
The simple fact is that the West is to big and to diverse to be destroyed by a few nukes. Or even a few dozen nukes.
Nuke America’s 12 largets population centers and it wouldn’t bother me. I live on a hill in Alabama and grow my own food so I would see it as a reduction in Democrats and not much else. There are more Americans in my position then there are Iranians in total.
Part of the anti-nuke propaganda was how lethal they are. The CEP of a nuke is stated as part of the 50% kill radius. There is no 100% kill radius. There was a Janitor less then 100 meters from the epi-center of the Hiroshima Pika-Dan. He bent over to throw a shovel of coal into the furnace and the bomb went off. He died about 50 years later. The number of Cancer deaths in Hiroshima is no greater then anywhere else in Japan. No two headed monsters or long term deaths to radioactivity that can be documented. Lots of claims but no hard facts.
Nukes kill a lot of people, but not as many as the fires they start.
America has no Achilles heel. No external enemy can do more then hurt us, which will just get us pissed off. Then we play Wack-a-Mullah with a real big stick. Send them off to Paradise and go pop a cold one. As the morgue attendant said to the hearse driver.
I don’t see Karpels logic at all that a few nukes will suddenly transform Iran into the untouchable hyper superpower that can seize all the oil fields with nuclear impunity when the same logic somehow failed to get far more advanced nuclear powers USA, Russia, China, France, Israel, S Africa, Pakistan, India, or the lowly NORKs into a position where they could grab all the oil.
Some people (William and Moore) have no real idea about how limited a problem fallout and EMP from small nukes are.
Typos-r-us – Great post. Yes, fire kills more than blast in an urban nuke bombing, especially with lower yield bombs. And lots and lots more than any direct radiation or fallout effects.
Except for a neutron bomb, anywhere someone could get a lethal dose of radiation doesn’t really matter because it is well within the spheres of lethal blast and heat effects – anyone getting a fatal dose is blasted or burned dead anyways before any Zoomies would take ‘em out.
Gobble gobble
typos_R_us
I finally found somebody dumber than me!
Gobble Gobble
WestGuard
What tune do you sing that to? I’ll be glad to get my guitar and strum along.
I was goggling grand wizard and KKK for a phd research and came up across this site by similarity, my bad, down with …., as you were!!!
. typos_R_us:
You are the man. Great post…
@anti neo-con
there is no war mongering in the article. Khamenei speeches are very radical and they do not only mention destruction of Israel but are also talking about destruction of USA. Furthermore the destruction of America is usually mentioned by top people in Revolutionary Guards. Pasdaran (revolutionary guards) is the organisation who has control over everything concerning nuclear research and is under direct command of Ayatollah Khamenei.
As for your link, you and the website you linked to forgot to mention that “warmongering newspaper reports” have been based on ISIS analysis of IAEA report (as mentioned by one of the commentators on that site) and on report to Mr. Sarkozy published in December 2008.
http://isis-online.org/publications/iran/IAEA_Report_Analysis.pdf
Once Iran uses a nuke anywhere, provided we have the right CIC, they finis. Kaput. Iran no longer exists, and I say good riddance, because that country has been nothing but bad news since the Carter era. They’ve been allowed to get away with countless acts of terrorism and intrigue against us and our allies.
It would not cause me one minute’s loss of sleep if all 66 million Iranians were to be incinerated.
15. Whitehall
“The near-collapse of the international banking system has had some positive effects – reduced demand for, and hence price, of petroleum. This leads to a financial crisis for Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and others.”
Won’t that really just push Russia and Saudia Arabia into supporting Iran to destablize the region? Russia and Saudia Arabia need oil prices higher. I think they are letting the Iranian Mullahs do the dirty work of sowing discord for them.
I see bad times ahead. Unless Hillary can save us .. hahahahahah.. heading back into the bunker now.
Marvelous. Of course, once they use a nuke anyplace, the whole world is going to get a lot messier. The impact of nuclear war in the Middle East would be terrible.
Furthermore, in spite of any testosterone inspired fantasies, we would and could not kill all the Iranians. The survivors might be just a little bit ticked off – and a lot of them are already whacko.
#18-John Moore,
Why couldn’t Israel use one of it’s nuke tipped missiles to generate an EMP over Iran, the very day Iran tests it’s first nuclear weapon? That would destroy most of Iran’s electronics, perhaps enough to halt their program. It wouldn’t bring that much condemnation, especially if no one was killed by it (in the immediate sense). I think it could be low enough to affect Iran, in the main, and cause few if any casualties.
I think the alternative for Israel, especially since the U.S and Europe will be ineffective at halting Iran’s program, is a full on nuclear attack or a sustained conventional air campaign, which will take U.S assistance. Will Obama give that assistance? Unlikely, so the nuclear options are are what’s left for Israel to avoid a second holocaust. What would you do, if you were running the Israeli government?
The president of Iran is not hiding the fact that he wants Isreal to be wiped out of the world map. Everything Iran is doing presently is to ensure the acquisition of such capability, and the world is doing nothing. But, we should be informed here that in the event of any deadly action, Isrealis will not only be his victims.
#32
This would cause a huge international outcry, with severe economic consequences for Israel. Furthermore, there is no way to limit the EMP pulse just to Iran.
John Moore.
Israelis are sure that any nuclear attack by Iran will cause world outcry for a while. The 2016 Olympics will still be held in Iran.
There is no greater “economic consequence” than being wiped out of existence.
Why does Netanyahu want a government with Kadima and Labor? Very simple, all three parties, which represent the whole political spectrum, agree that an Iran with Nuclear Weapons is an existential threat to their country.
Gobble gobble
typos_R_us
I finally found somebody dumber than me!
Gobble Gobble
And I’m only the Jr. Assistant Village Idiot. I should hook you up with the Assistant and the actual Village Idiot. They make us seem gifted.
“Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.”
Bill Watterson, cartoonist, “Calvin and Hobbes”
US cartoonist (1958 – )
Gobble gobble
typos_R_us
You don’t know how hard I had to look.
Gobble gobble
For far to long America has had it’s head in the sand.”None so blind as those who will not see”.” None so defeated as those who will not fight”
In December 2000, Ayatollah Ali Hoseyni Khamenei said: “Iran’s stance has always been clear on this ugly phenomenon [Israel]. We have repeatedly said that this cancerous tumor of a state should be removed from the region.”
This is a lie. Following is the full text of Khamenei’s speech. Show me where he said Israel should be removed from the region:
“In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate…The main subject of my second sermon is Palestine. And the reason is that Palestine is the main issue of the Islamic world. The mischief here affects all the Islamic community, and countries which are close to the centre of the problem , such as Iran, should be aware of the situation. Both the Zionists, who have usurped Palestine, and their supporters claim that the situation in Palestine is an internal issue only related to the usurping Israeli government. An internal issue. This is not the case. This is not an internal issue at all. Even if a single person had not stood up inside Palestine the Islamic world would have remained the enemy of the Zionists and their supporters because of the very issue of Palestine. The situation is even more central now because the people of Palestine have stood up and have knowingly entered the scene. Palestine is the main issue of the Islamic world for two reasons. First, Palestine is a part of the Islamic territory, and all the Islamic doctrines agree, all the jurisprudents agree that if a part of the Islamic territory is separated from the mainland by the enemy and if the enemy establishes it rule in that territory, all the Muslims have a duty to fight for the return of that territory to the Islamic mainland.
The Muslim people, Muslim nations, wherever they may be in the world, feel duty bound to do something. But many of them cannot take any action. However, anyone who is capable should take action and they do so. For the same reason you see that the entire Islamic world welcomes the Qods Day. Our late great Imam decided that the last Friday of Ramadan should be marked annually as Qods Day. This year we shall mark the occasion next Friday 22 December . You shall see that this year the entire world of Islam will celebrate Qods Day more gloriously and more strikingly than ever before, God willing…
The important point is that the Palestinian people and particularly the younger generation in Palestine have realized the truth. Which truth? The truth that if they want to overcome weakness, humiliation, shame and the pressure that they are being subjected to they have to stand up and fight. The solution is not found at negotiation tables because you saw how the negotiators failed. The Palestinian people have understood this truth .
At the same time, the behaviour of the Zionists has been so barbaric and so far removed from human conduct and compassion that it has distressed the younger Palestinian generation beyond measure, beyond patience. The Zionists may think that if they show even more force, if they use artillery shells, if they use their tanks, if they use chemical weapons they will silence the people. Yes, of course, they might increase the pressure and they might silence the people for a while. But they will not be able to remove the anger which is piling high in the hearts of the people. These feelings cannot be destroyed. A thunder will bring down all their castles. They will not be able to destroy this movement. This is the first point: The people and the young people have woken up.
The second point is this: This uprising has brought chaos to the calculations of the usurping Zionist government. Why? Because the foundation of their calculation is based on the idea that the Palestinian people no longer have the strength, the temper or the will to fight. After all the initial pressure, after expulsion of more than half of the Palestinian people, after all these years Israel thought Palestinians no longer have the strength, the will or the enthusiasm to stand up and fight. This was their calculation. But their calculation was wrong. Their premise was wrong. When the very people who live in Palestine – and not merely the Palestinian organizations abroad, in Lebanon or Jordan, but thousands of people living in the various regions of Palestine – are determined to stand up to the system, the climate of security and the promised land which they had imagined and tried to create by dragging non-Palestinian immigrants and Jews from the various parts of the world is destroyed.
Their calculations have not worked out. That is why their government has had to resign. They were forced to do so out of need. Those who applied the greatest pressure for the resignation might think that they should apply even more force and bring a more ruthless government to power. This is how they might be thinking. But they are wrong. They are mislead. This is no small matter. It is a grave issue related to the fate of the Islamic world and the fate of all Islamic countries, particularly those which are close to this corrupt and dangerous tumour.
In this month of Ramadan the Zionists committed all the atrocities that they could manage. Small children, even as young as one-year old, youngsters, teenagers, old men and even handicapped people have fallen in these events…
Despite all this the Americans continue to support them. Despite all this the American senators and politicians and their political experts continue to express clear support for them. Well, let them do it. It is their choice. This is their policy. This is their essence. Their essence is to support such corrupt, evil and ruthless people. We don’t expect anything more from them. However, the people of the world should learn from these events. Our nation, fortunately, is well aware of the situation. The people of the world who have always heard the Americans talk about human rights, the rights of the majority and – in their own words – democracy, should see the truly ugly face of American policies in the mirror of Palestine.
There is an acceptable and fully humanitarian formula, and that is, the original people of Palestine – and not the people who came to Palestine from other regions of the world – the people of Palestine, wherever they may be in the refugee camps and elsewhere, they should go back to Palestine and determine the shape of their own government which should comprise their own people. Of course, it is obvious that no Palestinian, be it Muslims or not – and the dominant majority of the Palestinians are Muslims – or Christians and Jewish, there is a small minority of Jews and Christians live there, anyway no Palestinian would ever be happy or would permit a gang of loiterers from London streets, members of suppressed Jewish families from Moscow or the American thugs to come to Palestine and form a government. They would not allow rule by gangs who once upon a time were wielding knives and daggers and their greatest achievement was the ability to batter and kill their opponents brutally and behave in a manner which pleased the Zionist and Jewish capitalists. It is obvious that the nation of Palestine will not allow such gangs to rule in Palestine. The Islamic world will not allow such a thing either.
The formula is a formula acceptable to the world. Those powers who claim to believe in the people’s vote and democracy, are welcomed to this formula. Very well, this is an example of a democratic gesture.
The land of Palestine, this piece of land, has after all had some people living in it. These people are still alive. Several million of them are living there and several other million live outside, that is, in Lebanon, Jordan and other regions. They can all gather there in Palestine and elect their own government. This is a very appropriate method.
It is clear that the Zionist regime which is ruling today and any other Zionist government has no right to survive and rule in the region of Palestine and in the land of Palestine. We would like to point out to our dear Palestinian brothers, who are facing hardship in that place, that if they were to remain steadfast and patient, they would receive divine rewards and they would achieve victory. Victory will always follow patience and endeavour in the service of God. Koranic verse God will grant victory to those who assist Him. There is no doubt about this. Therefore victory will be realized. They the Palestinians must remain patient and must tolerate hardship.
We call on all Islamic states and Muslim nations to perform their religious duty. Today all nations and governments are duty bound to send assistance to this oppressed nation and this community of believers. They the Palestinians must not be abandoned to struggle in the arena alone. They must be helped. And help is being offered. We hope that these offerings will reach the right destination and will be effective to reduce some of the pains of Palestine’s people, God willing. We beseech Almighty God to eliminate the problems facing Islam, the Muslims and the people of Palestine.
Koranic verses follow In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. When comes the help of God and victory, and thou dost see the people enter God’s religion in crowds. Celebrate the praises of thy Lord and pray for His forgiveness, for He is oft returning in grace and mercy.”
BBC Monitoring Middle East
December 15, 2000, Friday
Iran: Leader Khamene’i says Palestinians must not be left alone
SOURCE: Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Tehran, in Persian 0800 gmt 15 Dec 00
“In December 2006, Ahmadinejad said, ‘The Zionist regime [will] soon be wiped out and humanity will be free.’”
This is a lie. He said: “As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated”.
president.ir/eng/ahmadinejad/cronicnews/1385/09/21/index-e.htm
He said the Zionist regime will “vanish,” not be “wiped out”. “Wiped out” suggest a military strike. Vanish suggest something different. The difference can be seen from his use of the Soviet Union as an analogy. Please tell me, who “wiped out” the Soviet Union”? Nobody. It collapsed internally. This is what Ahmadinejad said will happen to Israel.
“In June 2008, Ahmadinejad said of Israel, rhetorically addressing the memory of Khomeini, ‘Thanks to God, your [i.e., Khomeini's] wish will soon be realized, and this germ of corruption will be wiped off.’”
This is a lie. Here is what he said:
“Who, which analyst and which expert in the world would any longer dare to say that the Zionist regime is going to survive in the world? Can you find anyone? I invite all claimants of the world, let one of them come here and argue with us [about the future survival of Israel]. It is finished. Not only that [regime of Israel], but the entire system of the arrogant world order has reached the absolute dead-end and is slipping down towards certain collapse.”
My real worry about Iran goes beyond just a nuke. Has anyone ever connsidered the possability of a EMP(ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PULSE)? tHE LAST TEST Tehran ran supposedly failed. Only problem is , if this were an EMP test, it would have been a success. An EMP explosion would be just as bad a thermonuclear bomb. The loss in dollars of electronic componenets would be huge. So would the loss of life from the failure of machines like MRIS, ETC.. Do not be surprised if this is the true agenda not only of Tehran, but of the Islamic supremacist in general.
dave742,
Where did you get your quotes? I ask because Muslim despots have a long history of releasing an English version which is toned down from what they feed their domestic audience.
MEMI (?) is a good source for translations of what they are saying to other Muslims as opposd to what they are saying to westerners.
I would not ascribe to a lie what could be a simlpe, or not so simple, translation error. Remember those that you are defending are part of the same movement that shot dead a 12 year old boy(Mohammed al-Dura) so they could blame Israel and generate propaganda from the event. That the shooting was a hoax is a fact that was proven in a court of law.
http://en.wordpress.com/tag/france-2/
You need to be real careful when you accept the word of proven liars to call someone else a liar.
typos r us:
“Where did you get your quotes”
I showed where I got them. From the BBC. Here is how reporting works when news comes out of countries like Iran. The BBC is the only news organization out there who has people in Iran. The BBC people watch the TV and listen to the radio. They translate the entire texts of speeches, and this gets posted on Lexis Nexis. Then the Western media reads these translated texts, they sift through the speeches looking for something inflammatory, then they alter, mangle and fabricate the parts they want to use. This is how the media works. I have went through dozens and dozens of MSM quotes. Very few are accurate, and most are bald fabrications. Also, I work 20 feet from someone form Iran, and I have her translate videos and texts when I can find them. Her translations always match the BBC translations, not the MSM media. It is you that is being lied to.
It is very interesting to watch these fabrications develop. When you look at Lexis Nexis, the stories are noted only dated, but time stamped. When a speech is released, someone like the AP will come out with a mildly altered quote. Then 2 hours later, they’ll come out with a more altered version, and it will get worse from there. For example, first AHmadinejad says that Israel will “dissappear,” then they’ll be “annihilated,” then they’ll be “wiped off the map”. It would be funny if so many people didn’t believe it.
typos r us:
Here’s an example of how quotes change:
From one speech, Anthony Deutsch of the AP initially reported Ahmadinejad as saying that Israel is “a regime based on evil that cannot continue and one day will vanish.” Three hours later, however, his quote changes to saying that Israel is “a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed.”
From the same writer, in 3 hours the Israeli government goes from being “a regime” to “a tyrannical regime,” and in the same 3 hours the quote changed from that regime will “one day vanish” to “will one day be destroyed.”
So how did the same writer decide to change these quotes in the span of 3 hours??
Here’s the whole story:
The quote reported by the think tank Realite is:
“This regime (Israel) will one day disappear.” (1)
The reference used for this quote is an article from the French newspaper Liberation. A link is given for the article, but it does not work, and it redirects to the Liberation homepage. A Lexis Nexis search shows only one article that appeared in Liberation on either May 11 or 12 that contained the word “Ahmadinejad,” and that article did not contain the above quote. (2) This quote was from a speech that Ahmadinejad made to students at the University of Indonesia while visiting Jakarta for a D-8 conference on May 11, 2006. There were many news sources reporting on the speech, and it is very strange that Realite decided to use as a source an obscure French newspaper with a non-functioning link when so many other mainstream sources are available.
Agence France Presse (3), AFX (4), and VOA (5) all reported Ahmadinejad saying that Israel will “one day vanish”, or something very close. The AP had two versions, depending on the author. Chris Brummit reported Ahmadinejad saying that Israel “cannot continue and one day will vanish” (6), and this is the quote the ADL decided to use. (7) Eric Talmadge (8) and Niniek Karmini (9) both reporting him as saying that Israel is “a tyrannical regime that one day will be destroyed.” The AP seems to have like the “destroyed” version over the “vanish” version. Anthony Deutsch of the AP initially reported Ahmadinejad as saying that Israel is “a regime based on evil that cannot continue and one day will vanish,” similar to Chris Brummitt above. (10) Three hours later, however, his quote changes to saying that Israel is “a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed,” (11) which matches the other AP writers. Someone at the AP told Deutsch to change the quote. Creative editing. When you start looking at even more suspect sources, you get even better versions. The Weisenthal Center quoted Ahmainejad as saying that Israel would soon be “anhiliated,” (12) and UPI quoted him as saying: “As it has lost its raison d’etre, Israel will be annihilated.” (13)
So we have many different versions to choose from. There is one more, which is from IRNA:
“’No government that practices oppression can remain in power for so long,’ [Ahmadinejad] said, adding that it ‘is doomed to crumble.’” (14)
The first part is very similar to the AFP quote of: “We believe that a government such as this one will not last long because it is built on tyranny and tyranny will not last long,” and the second part is close to the AFP quote that Israel will “one day vanish.” (see note 3) It is clear that the IRNA quote is a correct translation of what Ahmadinejad actually said, and the AFP quote is a similar translation of the same thing. All other version employ “creative editing” to achieve a desired effect.
The actual quote, then, is not objectionable at all. Ahmadinejad is simply saying that oppressive regimes have never lasted, and Israel will also fall. This is clear to anyone with an open mind, and not only to Amhadinejad. Joel Kovel, speaking of Israel’s creation of a state in another peoples land, said that the idea “was very foolish, and will one day bring Israel down.” (15) Kovel was nearly a US Presidential candidate for the Green Party. The US almost had a presidential candidate who said nearly the same thing as Ahmadinejad did with his quote. If he did become president, Israel could use his quote as a reason to attack the US.
Further evidence that shows Ahmadinejad meant that Israel will “crumble” or “vanish” on their own can be found from an answer he gave to a question from the audience THAT SAME DAY. He was asked if he would attack Israel if the US attacked Iran. His answer was: “There is no need to attack the zionist state. It will self destruct.” (16) This, of course, was not reported in the MSM. Ahmadinejad was not talking about attacking Israel, but instead is saying that they will crumble on their own. And some MSM outlets can use creative editing to turn this into him saying that Israel will be “annihilated.” It’s quite impressive.
Here’s another quote from the same speech that I did not see in the MSM:
“We value the life and dignity of human beings and condemn any massacre of innocent people.” (see note 14)
1) realite-eu.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=9dJBLLNkGiF&b=2315291&ct=4058419 quoting “Iran: Ahmadinejad annonce la «disparition» d’Israël,” Libération, May 11th, 2006
2) Liberation, “Répit pour le nucléaire iranien,” May 11, 2006
3) AFP, “Iran Leader Blasts US ‘Propaganda War’,” May 12, 2006breitbart.com/article.php?id=060512051024.7sze3lp2&show_article=1
4) AFX International Focus, “Iran’s president says Israel ‘one day will vanish’,” May 11, 2006, see edited version here:
finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2006-05/artikel-6412884.asp
5) Voice of America News, “Iran’s President Calls Israel an ‘Evil Regime’,” May 11, 2006
voanews.com/Korean/archive/2006-05/2006-05-11-voa5.cfm
6) Washington Post, “Iran Leader Calls Israel an ‘Evil’ Regime,” May 11, 2006
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/10/AR2006051000311.html
7) adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm
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8) Washington Post, “Iran Leader Taps Into Anti-West Sentiment,” May 12, 2006 by Eric Talmadge
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/12/AR2006051200325_pf.html
9)Washington Post “Iran’s President Says Nuke Talks Possible,” May 12, 2006 by Niniek Karmini
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051100169.html
10) AP, “Iran’s president calls Israel an “evil regime,” dismisses sanction threat,” May 11, 2006, by Anthony Deutsch, written at 5:54 AM GMT (time in Lexis Nexis). Although Deutsch is not shown as the author, a word for word copy of the article is available here:
chinapost.com.tw/latestnews/print/38151.htm
11) AP, “Iran’s president calls Israel a ‘tyrannical regime,’ dismisses sanction threat,” May 11, 2006, by Anthony Deutsch 9:12 AM GMT, Copy here:
nysun.com/article/32601?page_no=1
12) Tageted News Service quoting the Simon Wiesenthal Center, “Wiesenthal Center: Jakarta Crowds Cheering Ahmadinejad’s Call For Israel’s Annihilation, Reminiscent Of Hitler’s Rallies,” May 11, 2006
wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=245494&ct=2366201
13) UPI, “Ahmadinejad Calls Israel ‘Evil Regime’,” May 11, 2006 Copy is here:
iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7166
It is not clear if the UPI copied Iran Focus or vice versa. Both make sense.
14) president.ir/eng/ahmadinejad/cronicnews/1385/02/21/index-e.htm
15) Joel Kovel, “Overcoming Zionism: Creating a Single Democratic State in Israel/Pakestine,” 2007, page 34
16) The Jakarta Post, “Ahmadinejad Feels the Love at UI,” May 12, 2006 by Hari Kurniawan and Endy M. Bauni
thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydetail.asp?fileid=20060512.A04
You mean mankind just sprouted like mushrooms? ,