In Your Stocking, from the Democrats: The Worst Present Ever
The burden of proof should have been on the Democrats to explain how removing incentive will cause more people to pay for their own insurance, rather than the more likely consequence that a growing percentage of people will end up on the dole — which means more money must be confiscated from more people.
Most importantly, old Ebenezer could tell you that nobody needs health insurance, they need health — and that not everybody wants that, at least not at all times. What kind of life would it be to never enjoy the occasional life-shortening excess? (A socialist utopian one, actually. But never mind.)
Another way to put this: Lack of insurance does not imply lack of health. Repeat that with me. Those X people who do not have insurance are not all unhealthy. Besides, in those times of lack of health, nobody — even those lacking formal insurance policies — is ever turned away from Marley & Scrooge Memorial.
This charity is paid for by other people, like the new government entitlement, but the costs are spread around more evenly than by direct confiscation. The reason is that taxation requires an overhead — a bureaucracy — to administer. All experience with government suggests that the overhead will add a significant additional cost.
Once more, the burden of proof was on those who proposed the new mandate that their innovations were more cost effective. We have seen no arguments — but plenty of bald assertions — that they are so.
However, none of these are supported by chief elf Reid, who tacitly acknowledges that the new program will cost more by starting his tax now, but will not provide benefits for several years. This of course means that the taxes must be increased sometime after the benefits kick in, just to maintain status quo.
And it’s rational to suppose they’ll increase even more given all experience of the growth of entitlement programs.
The Democrats’ gift is one that will keep taking for years and years and years.
Ho ho ho.
Only one mistake – instead of “chief elf”, it should have read “chief pimp, Reid” He certainly got all his ladies of the evening properly lined up for work! We already knew what they were, we were just arguing price.
ObamaCare can & will be repealed. The cockroach Democrats who voted for this monstrosity will be voted out of office. The Democrats have just gone over the cliff & Obama has made himself a lame duck. The gift he gave us is what our country is about: Freedom & liberty. The Democrats have made a grave error which will have devastating consequences for years to come.
BOHICA! (y’all know what that means I trust) One step toward “social justice” (i.e., Zimbabwe).
excellent essay, thank you Mr. Brigg
All, an update:
According to the New York Times‘s (D) glowing—no, depressing—report of the events:
For once, I am in complete agreement with that paper.
Will you racist hatemongers ever face reality? There was an election last year. We won, you lost, and you will never get another chance. Your time has passed.
Just stop the tiresome racist attacks on our new Leader. President Obama rules this country now and He and His Progressive allies are leading us all forward into a new world of peace and justice.
You racist white males will pay reparations for centuries of exploitation and oppression.
No We Didn’t #6, start thinking for yourself instead of being a carbon footprint automaton. Playing the victim gets you nowhere except you stay the doormat you will yourself to be. Playing the race card make you look weak & pathetic. You’re as predictable as ever. Misdirection on the subject at hand gets you back on the subject. The 2010 shockwave is coming. Be prepared. I just hope Harry Reid isn’t going to absorb the aftershock. He’s skin & bones & 4th behind in his home state & polling at 38%, despite an ad blitz to up his poll ratings. You’re savior Obama is a fraud.
No We Didn’t, when did you decide to be Scrooge? Who is going to redeem you? Government is not. Obama is not; he’s too self-absorbed to notice anything beyond his eyesight. So, No We Didn’t, you better start advocating for yourself. Obama is not your Jacob Marley.
Thanks to number 6 for setting back race relations 100 years. I am hoping that post was written by a white guy with a hood in Idaho, but, maybe not.
6. Yes We Did: You’re a little late, laddie. I’ve already paid mine in full. Didn’t you receive your cut? Better look to your “friends”, then. One of them is living higher on the hog because he’s spending your cut, too.
#6, I am quite sure, is being satirical. No one could be that dumb.
For kids with pre-existing conditions who can’t obtain health insurance, this bill is perhaps the best present they could ask for. Scrooge eventually recognized the ramifications of his greed and reformed himself. GOP intransigence on the issue of health care demonstrates that many have not yet learned the lesson.
Here is hope that the holiday spirit will soften the hearts of Republicans who prefer to be advocates for the death of their fellow citizens rather than support even the most elementary reform. For those who believe in divine justice, it should be clear that the price to be paid will be greater for those who fail to follow the golden rule.
Happy Holidays – may the spirit of care for your fellows soften your resistance to ethical health care regulations. Jesus would be proud of Harry Reid and the congress, and Americans will be quite appreciative once the benefits of reform accrue. I’ve never received a better present, and consider it a wish come true.
Peace.
DS
With regard to Yes We Did’s comment at number 6:
When I was an undergraduate student at Harvard in the 1970s, my favorite professor, David Donald, told us we were then in the middle of America’s Second Reconstruction Era. At the time, great changes were happening in America with respect to race relations. Positive, long overdue changes. Professor Donald observed that, nevertheless, the Second Reconstruction Era would come to an end, just as the First Reconstruction Era had to come to an end.
White America has made great strides in race relations during this Second Reconstruction Era. It’s zenith was reached with the election of Barack Obama. Every white who voted for our president felt good about doing so. Those white voters felt that Obama was going to be a racial healer, and that with his election we could finally look at one another for the content of one’s character rather than the color of one another’s skin—-as Martin Luther King so dreamed.
White America feels that it has bent over backwards to not act in a bigoted or racist way when dealing with people of color. But, white America is now tired of being relentlessly shamed for racist conduct of past centuries. In particular, white America is now tired of being accused of bigotry and racism for merely disagreeing with a black man who happens to be our president.
Wasn’t dissent deemed the highest form of patriotism just a few short years ago. Now, according to some, dissent is bigotry and racism. And now, peace and justice can only be obtained by further penance, retribution, and redistribution at the apparent expense of white America (although every American will pay and pay, no matter what the hue of their skin).
The supreme and arrogant leftward march of folly of our president and his political party is momentarily victorious. It is at its high-water-mark like Pickett’s charge at Gettysburg. The present skirmish may be won by those on the left, for the moment, but many battles and the war, itself, in defense of freedom and liberty will continue on behalf of all Americans, black and white. The right and the center will win these battles and this war.
The Second Reconstruction Era is over. Where the First Reconstruction Era sadly ended in Jim Crow and the KKK, the Second Reconstruction Era’s end will be replaced with conservative enlightenment. The Second Reconstruction Era’s end will be replaced with a rebirth of our American Revolution.
God Bless America!
#6, You Certainly Did,
You should know that I have absolutely nothing against white people like Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Max Baucus, and the other folk who pushed through this largely unwanted monstrosity.
Although there are some racist people out there who despise whites, I am not one of them.
#11. No I’m sure it could be that dumb. We’ve seen plenty of trolls spouting off in a similar fashion.
Unfortunately this is a present we can’t return or regift. We will be stuck with this present until the end of the Republic. Which isn’t far away at this rate. *Sigh*
With all due respect people, pay no attention to comment #6. It appears verbatim on many sites. I don’t know if the author is being sarcastic or serious, but arguing with it is like arguing with a rock–there’s nothing really there that will or can hear you.
Its a variant of “spam.”
David S @ 12:
As one of those people with a pre-existing condition (it’s been present since birth, so there has never been a time I’ve not had it), I believe I can speak to your point.
I don’t want the government in charge of my health care.
You’ve bought into the fantasy that “big mommy Gubment” will automatically extend benefits to everyone with every single condition. The use of a little logic will quickly show that to be so much smoke and mirrors, because conditions such as mine require quite expensive treatment.
Here’s an illustrative fact for you to ponder… the existing government health-care system, Medicare, does not pay for kidney dialysis–which is necessary for patients whose kidneys have been removed or ceased to function to continue to live–for the first 3 months unless the patient is over 65. Therefore, young people with kidney failure (and it does happen, probably more often than you realize) have to pay themselves for the first 3 months. Even for those over 65, once Medicare kicks in, they only pay 80%, leaving the patient or the secondary insurance to pay the rest.
Now, given that the government restricts payment for this common life-prolonging treatment, are you really so foolish as to believe that they are gonna pay for treatment for a much rarer condition?
#2 Sebastian Shaw wrote: “ObamaCare can & will be repealed. The cockroach Democrats who voted for this monstrosity will be voted out of office. The Democrats have just gone over the cliff & Obama has made himself a lame duck. The gift he gave us is what our country is about: Freedom & liberty. The Democrats have made a grave error which will have devastating consequences for years to come.”
What’s in that tea your drinking? Health care reform will be repealed just like Social Security and Medicare were repealed. In fact, I can’t think of a major program initiative that has EVER been repealed, so history is not on your side. The leaders in the GOP will dangle that “repeal” carrot for you useful idiots as long as they can to get you out to vote for them. But they know it it will NEVER be repealed. Once hard working American families start to benefit from health care reform you won’t be able to pry it off them with a crow bar (or their vote for that matter). Let’s see you run the next election on a platform of taking away peoples health care. You and those who think like you are the ones who will be making a grave error. It’s gonna be a rough eight-years for you buddy. I’d stock up on the blood pressure medicine cause you might end up blowing a gasket sometime soon.
Don’t you get it, me and my congregation hate white people.
#12 David S. wrote: “Jesus would be proud of Harry Reid and the congress, and Americans will be quite appreciative once the benefits of reform accrue. I’ve never received a better present, and consider it a wish come true.”
Amen to that. Health Care Reform is Gods work. Too bad the conservative loons can’t see that. The day of private health insurance shareholders taking spa vacations on the backs of dead children who were denied coverage because it impacted their bottom line are over for good. All these threats of a 2010 “shock wave” are just that. Sorta like the bark of an old spent incontinent poodle. I can see the commercials already. A sick child with cancer pleading with the Republicans not to take away their life saving treatments. Health Care Reform is the new third rail. Touch it and you die.
My dog isn’t as dumb as #6. At least my dog know enough not to pee on his own leg.
the demographics show, that white America, due to the rise in minority birthrate, is in decline. so yes you did at number 6, the ones that are going to get stuck with this pay to play are the one group of people you want reparations for. wait what? not again!
the boat is fast sinking and blaming one of the passengers for something that they are participants in, is ridiculous. lets hope there are no sharks around, the sharks aren’t going to care what color you are. i am American… got it.
#12 David,
It’s always difficult to know if somebody is being sarcastic for effect, like you appear to being doing when you say that Republicans are “advocates for the death of their fellow citizens.” But I’ll take you at your word.
You appear to be making the common logical error of confusing having “health insurance” with having “health.” Now that you are aware of the distinction, what say you to my claim that more people would have better health in the absence of this bill?
#20 Praetorian: Maybe not
Although you say this is the third rail, it’s not like social security. This law uses the imput of a medicare evaluation panel set up in a previous “porkulus” law. This medicare evaluation panel will focus on the expenses of end of life. This means that your life will be worth a certain number of points. If it costs too much, the care will be terminated. Want to make any prognostications on that “third rail”?
Yes, euthansia is here with this bill. If you were born with Downs syndrome the govt will help abort you. It would cost more in government expenses to keep you alive alive than your worth to the state.
Obama, Reid & Co.’s plan for us:
1. The bill is not about health care; it’s about control.
2. The formula for whether you’re covered will be:
Life expectancy X annual taxes you pay = amount that Nannystate will spend on you for a life-threatening condition.
3. If life-threatening condition costs > life expectancy X annual taxes, you appeal to a death panel to plead your case.
4. If the death panel denies your appeal, Nannystate stops paying. You’re then left to fend for yourself.
Allow me to correct this statement,
“The days of mismanaged government funded health insurance funds and ‘Life Panel’ bureaucrats taking spa vacations on the backs of dead children, who’re to be denied coverage because it impacts the bottom line, have only just begun.”
Yes the days of wine and roses have finally arrived for the socialist parasites. Too bad for them, the last call will arrive far sooner than they think it will.
Wreck their system.
Soooo, ’47 million people (I love that magical #.. illegal aliens are included.. imagine that)’ without insurance are all children with a pre-existing condition who are denied insurance. Righhhhht.
David S and like-minded folks, MOST of those currently not possessing insurance do so by choice. Not under this new ‘fantastic mandated health insurance’.
Then again, you and many others have been shadows since ClimateGate. Fact sure packs a punch than emotion, doesn’t it?
BTW, the Brussels convention I’d attended.. my European colleagues are astounded at the silence of news networks STILL not reporting on the CRU emails. C’est la vie.
Merry Christmas everyone..
Always fun when our left loon trolls spout nonsense about imaginary children getting some great benefit from this disaster. Those kids are already being cared for and going to be much worse off when the leftists get done bankrupting and destroying our economy. Sometimes it is hard to believe these fools are that dense.
Health reform is gods work? So god wanted a new bloated federal bureacracy to supervise private health care decisions, sweetheart deals for lawyers and drug companies and particular politicians, rising costs, rationed care, loss of jobs, free abortions for all and immediate tax increases but to withhold the benefits for another four years? please don’t call that gods work, only humans are so foolish, greedy, and powermad to devise such a hair-brained plan.
According the Weekly Standard, the Democrats are not only going to run the unpopular ObamaCare, BUT mention in the same breath Republicans are going to repeal it if they get back power:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/12/dems_2010_strategy_gop_will_re.asp
This is Obama’s “smart power”?
Praetorian @ 20:
What ever happened to “separation of church and state”?
Joe Lieberman is down to 31%, a 14 point drop among independents with the passage of ObamaCare. He’s toast. Many long time Democrats are toast. Chris Dodd, Byron Dorgon, Even Byah (sp?)…
The House is bound to lose all of its Democrat seats up for re-election, not just an estimated 30 seat loss Nancy Pelosi is pinning on her delusions of grandeur. Likewise, the Senate is bound to return to Republican control as well with the passage of ObamaCare.
Off the cliff the Democrats go, one by one without a sound.
6. Yes We Did:
“Will you racist hatemongers ever face reality? There was an election last year. We won, you lost, and you will never get another chance. ”
What an idiotic statement. Comments like that show Obama’s claims of bipartisanship are nothing more than a croc of B.S. We well get another chance in less than 11 months, and Democrats will suffer a bloodbath at the polls for ignoring their own constituents.
“Just stop the tiresome racist attacks on our new Leader. President Obama rules this country now and He and His Progressive allies are leading us all forward into a new world of peace and justice.”
Leading us over the cliff is more accurate. As this article says Obama is well on his way to becoming the worst president ever, even worse than the pathetically incompetent Jimmy Carter. At the rate he is going by 2012 he would lose an election with Daffy Duck on the ballot against him.
11. Jarvis:
“#6, I am quite sure, is being satirical. No one could be that dumb.”
Never underestimate the stupidity of a liberal. I do battle on liberal websites regularly and I see statements similar to Yes We Did’s written in all seriousness all the time.
#12 Davidesse say:
“For kids with pre-existing conditions who can’t obtain health insurance, this bill is perhaps the best present they could ask for.”
Say, pal, what is the SCHIP program for I wonder? I sure hope those little nippers can use SCHIP. Know why? BECAUSE MOST OF THE BENEFITS FROM THIS CHRISTMAS PRESENT WON’T BE AVAILABLE FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS, you poor mokes.
Someone took my uninsured car, drove it into my uninsured house jumping out at the last second, the car exploded and burned my house down. Well, of course I’ll be going to Allstate Monday to buy insurance for that wrecked car and burned down house. That’s what insurance is for, isn’t it. But I can’t understand how those insurance companies can stay in business with a business model like that. But anyway…
Stevemmm, The Democrats believe we’ll forget about ObamaCare when November 2010 rolls around; they truly believe we are stupid, unthinking drones like Yes We Can. I firmly believe ObamaCare will follow all the Democrats throughout the year & will never be forgotten when the tax increases come like a swarm of killer bees. The Tea Parties will grow exponentially over the year. And the crowd of people rejecting ObamaCare will be visible & the anger will be palpable living thing unto itself.
Will the Democrats have the courage to hold real town hall meetings not populated by SEIU plants & thugs? I doubt it. They will cower in fear knowing they made a terrible decision on ObamaCare.
2010 is not going to be a bloodbath, but a huge political shockwave, drowning out the Obama drones. President Obama will be all the more radioactive even among liberals. And Obama will continue to seek sustenance in ObamaLand while reality creeps into his isolated nightmare Utopia.
#12
Davidesse further say:
“Here is hope that the holiday spirit will soften the hearts of Republicans who prefer to be advocates for the death of their fellow citizens rather than support even the most elementary reform. For those who believe in divine justice, it should be clear that the price to be paid will be greater for those who fail to follow the golden rule.”
Why are Obama, Reid and Pelosi murdering children for four years? “What do we want? Our rights for free and everlasting life. When do we want it? Now.”
#12
Davidesse say: “Here is hope that the holiday spirit will soften the hearts of Republicans who prefer to be advocates for the death of their fellow citizens rather than support even the most elementary reform.”
Why are the hard-hearted Obama, Reid and Pelosi allowing the deaths of their fellow citizens for four more years? “What do we want? Free and everlasting life. When do we want it? Now.”
How will Porkulus II go over in the State of the Union? Given Porkulus was never wanted & shown to be a disaster, Obama is going headlong into another Porkulus in a attempt to save his himself & his pathetic poll numbers. I don’t think this is going to go over very well.
Fred Beloit say: “Oops.”
Dear David S: Poor Tiny Tim with his pre-existing illness already had health insurnace thanks to the SCHIP progam paid for by cigar smokers like me. Save you pity for the poor, and soon to be poorer, American taxpayer.
SebastianShaw @ 32:
Er… not quite.
Mrs. Pelosi’s seat is quite safe, being in the leftist enclave of San Francisco, and there are a number of others in similarly safe gerrymandered districts.
Please don’t let your hyperbole run away from you, it makes it hard to take anything you say seriously, and you do have some good points. However, even the most generous of long-time election watchers don’t think that there’s a ghost of a chance that the Dems will lose all 257 of their seats.
Conservative Wanderer, Barbara Boxer may very lose her seat; therefore, Nancy Pelosi may very lose her speakership, if not her seat completely when she is up for re-election. Harry Reid is gone; he is in 4th place among 3 unknowns in his home state. Byron Dorgon is not doing well in his state. Neither is Evan Byah. Democrats such as these should not be having problems. Yet they are.
I think you are too pessimistic & underestimate the will of the people. President Obama & the Democrats have moved to the hard Left while we remain a Center Right country. Expect an equal & opposite reaction that repudiates Obama’s tactics. The shockwave is coming. Have you not been listening to the protests by the Tea Parties this year? Apparently not. Stay in your cocoon of despair & sell it to an Obama drone. I will have none of it.
and again..from me to you on xmas…So Barack Obama dies and like all Presidents, goes to hell.
he is greeted by Satan as the elevator doors open
and Satan exclaims, “Barry! Old buddy! I’ve been your number one fan since you started turning tricks for that slumlord right out of college, I always knew you were going places!”
Obama says, “You know Satan, I’m not sure about this whole Eternal Damnation thing…is there anyway to talk my way out of this one?”
To this Satan replies, “Because your oratorial skills came directly from me, you will not be able to use them against me. But because you have been my favored for so long I’ll make an exception for you: You get to pick your own private hell.”
So Satan takes Barry to the hall of Presidential Damnation….
In the first room they visit GW Bush, whose private Hell is an eternal spelling bee where he is stung by bees every single time he misspells a word.
In the next room they find Bill Clinton whose Personal Hell is an eternal interrogation where he is electrocuted every single time he tells a fib.
In the third room we simply see Ronald Reagan tied to a bed naked getting serviced by Jane Wyman…
So Satan turns to Barry and says, “well Barry, you’ve seen your choices for eternal damnation, which do you think would be best for you?”
Barry stands and considers this set of choices with his considerable intellect then says, “Well Satan, I can’t actually spell worth a damn, as you must know… I didn’t actually write either of my books.”
To this Satan says, “Yes, but it was a fantastic ruse!”
Barry says, “And as you know, I have issues with objective fact and if I can’t talk my way out of anything here… the interrogation won’t work for me.”
Satan says, “Yes, you cannot use my gifts against me in my own domain.”
So Barry smiles and says, “Well,after much deliberation, I guess it’s going to have to be room number three.”
Satan smiles widely then laughs and says, “Jane, you may leave now.”
12. David S: Honestly…really? Seriously?
Lets think about this pre-exiting condition thing. Is obesity a pre existing condition? Is there any reason for the fatties to stop it with the fried lard balls now? NO! Not only do they get uncle sam to pay for their rascal to ride around wal mart on, they get the quadruple bypass paid for by uncle sam and they dont even have to have insurance before! They can just wait til they weigh 400 lbs and then get one of the “competitive” health insurance plans where they cant turn you down for weighing 400 lbs! Yay!
Nothing can go wrogn!
1.)Uncle Sam is a euphemism for those people who work and pay taxes…
2.)What’s the proportion of obese people in the US now?
Sebastian,
Barbara Boxer is not in the House, she’s in the Senate. Therefore she has nothing at all to do with whether or not Pelosi remains Speaker of the House.
Honestly, you need to be more careful with your facts, or the good points you’re trying to make will be disregarded because of your many nonsensical and counter-factual statements.
The Dems got to where they are because they overreached. Let us learn that lesson before we do the same.
11. I don’t know about that; two years ago Code Pink members went on the record saying that “It would be great,” if there were an organization of people who “dedicated their lives to defending freedom of speech,” WHILE BARRICADING THE ENTRANCE TO A US MARINE CORPS RECRUITING STATION.
William Daley, who embodies everything Obama is about the Chicago Thug Machine, believes the Democrats have overreached & now, after ObamaCare will soon become law, he pleads with fellow Letists that they must inclusive given Congressman Griffith’s departure of the Democratic Party for the Republican Party to save his own hide:
http://biggovernment.com/2009/12/24/daley-machine-nervous-political-realignment-in-the-works/
I use the context of Big Government so not to use the spin of the Washington Post, a Leftist rag, to see the reality of the situation.
This essay should have been written earlier this year than now. Much earlier. Now, it is far too late. The dye is cast.
David S., you, like all liberals, misunderstand. Most of us conservatives don’t mind paying for those who can’t help themselves- widows, orphans, disabled people, disaster victims. We just don’t want the government in control because: 1. the government tends to do things we find perverse, like remove incentives for people to get married and to work, and 2. we don’t trust the government to have our best interests or the best interests of the old, the young and the sick at heart. We’ll gladly donate 10% of our income, either directly, or through church-sponsored programs, to help those in need, but we don’t want the government anywhere near it.
If we didn’t have public education today, the logic of Mr. Riggs would be used by the right-wing to oppose it. I believe that we as a society can decide that we want better, stepping outside our selfish, individual perspective to see the bigger picture. Providing a public education for all has made for a more prosperous and more democratic society. Public education has been a cornerstone of our nation’s development into a great power. Even if you don’t directly benefit from it, you benefit by living in a better society. Universal health care is also one of those things that we would all benefit from. We would benefit by having a healthier citizenry. The costs per person would go down by having preventive health care available to everyone, not just the privileged. Our economy would be improved also by having a healthier work force. Having health care universally provided does not eliminate the incentive to work hard and have a more comfortable life otherwise. Our country is prosperous enough that, just like public education, we could afford to provide universal health care.
OK, I know there are many out there who think our system of public education is terrible. Maybe you’d rather have your kids be sheltered from other points of view. Maybe you actually are a better educator as a parent than the teachers who work in the schools. There are some brilliant home-schooled kids out there. In this country you have the choice of avoiding public education. But, I think you would have a hard time arguing that, during the last part of the 19th century and during the 20th century, this nation didn’t benefit greatly from having universal education available to all. I think this country will eventually have universal health care, and from the perspective of history, people will say “What took so long?”
Finally, to those who don’t want the government in charge of their health care: Do you really think that it’s better to have Wall Street in charge of it? At least with the government doing it, there’s an accountability back to the people. Politicians who promise and deliver improvements are rewarded by being reelected. (Or do you disagree that a democratic republic is a effective type of government?) At this point, the accountability is to the stockholders, and the incentive is profit. It is easy to find accounts of the industry purposely denying coverage or benefits for the sole reason of maintaining profit. See:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/potter_testimony.html
Idealistic of me to have faith in politicians, I know (since many of them are in the pockets of wealthy special interests), but what is the alternative? To give up on democracy? I am not ready to do that. I am for neither big government nor small government, but rather for good government.
Re nullifications. The Democrats are thinking long term strategically while the Republicans are thinking tactically, pick up some seats in the next election.
The current bill is not about health care, it is about expanding the power and control of the Federal Government with an entitlement program bigger than anything the world has ever known.
When was the last time any entitlement program was overturned?
The Democrats are willing to loose a seat or two in 2010, 2012, and beyond, but they are putting into place the framework for a huge European style socialist Government.
They are betting we will not see a Republican President or control of both houses of Congress plus a filibuster proof Senate in our life time. Sounds like a safe bet to me.
Tim:
With private industry in charge of health care, if I don’t like the way Company A handles my claims, I can take my business to Company B, or Company C, or Company D, or any one of over a thousand different companies.
With government in charge, I can’t really switch to Government B, now can I?
Which is really providing accountability to the consumer? The system where the provider has something to lose if they upset the consumer too much, or the system where there’s a total monopoly?
Our present system is an employer-based one. Many people do not have a choice of which plan to use. They are stuck with whatever plan their employer offers.
GrumpyRob, The Republicans know ObamaCare is a danger to the republic & it will be repealed. So much of the bill was written under the over of darkness & has not been read. No Republicans signed onto the bills in the House & Senate. ObamaCare will tear apart the Democrats while it unites the Republicans & America. The Democrats have overreached with the red Communist hands & have revealed their real Hammer & Sickle true colors. It ain’t over. And we should not underestimate WE THE PEOPLE. For every action there’s an equal & opposite reaction. 2010 will be a shockwave. 2012 will be a bloodbath. 2014 will be a bloodbath. For the Democrats. The bloodbath will continue until ObamaCare is dead.
49. myth buster:
“We’ll gladly donate 10% of our income, either directly, or through church-sponsored programs, to help those in need, but we don’t want the government anywhere near it.”
Well, I think you stumbled on a movement that makes sense. Instead of three-cornered hats and tea bags, why don’t you rally around conservatives donating 10% of their income to the needy. Here’s an idea, let’s see how many people you can gather on the Washington Mall who bring 10% of their net worth to deposit in a trust fund or an escrow account to be administered by whomever you choose. now that would have the ring of truth to it. All this other crap you’re trying to pull is manifest hypocrisy.
Tim:
Your point is valid, but does nothing to answer my point, for two reasons.
First, employers can also choose one of over a thousand different insurance companies right now, and change them if they believe they can get better service elsewhere… and since the people making such decisions are generally covered under the same plan, they have an incentive to make sure the plan they choose is the best one available.
Second, people can still purchase health insurance on their own, bypassing their employers. It can be more expensive, but it is possible to do so… and the current plans in Congress do zero-zip-zilch to address that issue.
And, my point still stands that neither of those options will be possible under a government plan. If an employer doesn’t like the government policies, they’re stuck with it. And the individual employee can’t switch away from the government plan if that’s the only plan available.
Next time, try answering my actual point (government control reduces consumer choice drastically, leading to less accountability because said consumers have no where else to go) rather than spouting Official Obamacrat Talking Points Straight From The Oval Office.
SebastianShaw @ 54:
Another factual error from Mr. Shaw.
Ever hear of Rep. Joseph Cao (R-LA), Mr. Shaw? He voted for the the House bill.
I keep tellin’ ya, ya gotta check your facts before posting!
55. We don’t believe in making a show of our almsgiving. Jesus said give generously and keep it a secret, nor do we need to pool our funds into a giant trust; indeed, that would greatly reduce our effectiveness by adding a layer of bureaucracy. Let each individual donate his tithe to the person or group he sees fit to receive it.
MythBuster @ 58:
Indeed. I prefer to do my giving through payroll deduction at work, mostly because they match my donations at 50 cents on the dollar, so my giving is multiplied.
And no, I ain’t telling how much I give nor to whom. I will only say that it is a religious organization dedicated to alleviating poverty worldwide.
Being in China and dealing with an adjunct of their government (teaching EFL in a Public University)…I ‘ve had reason to re-asses things like the Chinese embassy bombing of the Clinton Administration…Back then it was an “accident” that no one needed to explain or know the reasons for. I can honestly say that my conduct here has been dutiful and responsible while the Chinese administration here, those in charge of rewarding or thwarting such conduct, has been in the end, shifty, (tinged with an element of machismo), and favorable towards undermining such conduct’s ability to prosper. I am disturbed to say the least…that in China today, there is a feeling of celebration and elation, that is subtle enough to be evasive(scared) but apparent enough to be known(despising it’s cowing fear), at the passing of the “bill” (Really nothing more then a new hedge fund of American monies that can be freely withdrawn from, as all insurance monies become to a great extent)…My intuitive response is that the Chinese collective perceives the future lives and health, (which really is a death threat)of American children, particularly the potentials of the Anglo aesthetic as a guarantor against all that US money they’ve been “loaning” us…And there has been many moles in the US government and society over ten last ten years..(I wonder if this TEFL program with all of it’s benefits is just a slow and steady training course for moles and sympathizers to a great extent…It’s merits basically do not rise above low and base social defenses(corruption) mitigated by animal desires..Regardless of intentions.)It will take someone with more courage then I have seen from this current US administration to stand up and remind this competitive country, China, that it is US money to begin with…But most importantly that the US will not sell it’s Constitution to the interests of foreign competitors…Especially those who have benefited from the relevancy of the US foundations it’s generous consideration…What concerns me now, is a subversive (at times indignantly obvious) agenda by the Chinese to “become” the US through coordinating and choreographing economic and political affiliations so as to benefit the Chinese population at the expense of the American population,(It is essentially a “c*cktease to American investors (of either time/information/talents/energies or monies) that continually compromises either properties or ethics to gain ascension)…To make the lines so blurred between the two nations that they are indistinguishable…I intuit that because China has a longer history in the world, it will be seen as a victory for the Chinese (There is that inclination to their thinking…”Chinese is the center of the world..Therefore prove you are all Chinese”..My intuit tells me that it is no mere coincidence that the “Public Square” is a map of the world(a “square” as was the Chinese belief) and that “English Corner” is a small circle (to represent Western thought..of course they insist it is a “corner”) sequestered off the side of the map…The foreign teachers are contracted to attend “English Corner”, (an open forum at night for students to practice English with foreign teachers) regardless of the inclement weather and the Administration makes no effort to move the location indoors even though they have the facilities to do so and have been frequently and logically asked to do so.) This is a dangerous and detrimental distinction that separates Clinton from Obama. A test upon one’s allegiances.
One should also make the distinction though that Clinton is a far reach from being as distinguished as a Washington(Washington=Cherry tree=EPOCH WIN…Clinton=Cherry Pie=EPOCH FAIL)…And that Mao Tse Tung is in actual deeds, nearer to the later in terms of patriotism( (Maybe that’s what the Chinese think the whole point of Mao and all the butchery was, “Our boy better man”) ….But I believe the American forefathers realized that a “society” (and government is its derivative) is the most dangerous thing that ever happened to an individual…So yer probably not too happy about America if ya think otherwise.