In the Battle for Our Values, Be Prepared to Speak
Our local library has a used book shop attached to it. On a recent visit I bought several books, and as I was checking out, the librarian noted one of the books I was purchasing: What’s Right With Islam Is What’s Right With America by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (of Ground Zero mosque fame).
I was buying this book to better understand America’s enemies. But this prim older woman misunderstood my intentions and began fawning over the author, saying she had seen him speak, exalting his good sense, and extolling the excellence of his book. When she noted my sour expression, she sternly admonished me:
You know, they aren’t all bad … just like not all Christians are like Timothy McVeigh.
I thought my head might explode.
How dare this self-righteous, misguided fool assume anyone who does not approve of Imam Rauf is a bigot? How dare she compare all Christians to Timothy McVeigh, the one terrorist in recent memory tagged as a Christian by the media? Is she unaware that murdering hundreds of innocent men, women, and children is diametrically opposed to everything Jesus preached and everything Christianity stands for? I’m an agnostic Jew, and even I know that.
Anyone who knows me knows I’m not shy or reticent about expressing my views, but I was so enraged and stupefied by this woman’s brazen ignorance, I was at a loss for words. I mumbled something to the effect that McVeigh could hardly be considered Christian, to which she replied: “Well he thought he was.” I weakly responded: “They said the same about Hitler, but that doesn’t make it so.” And I beat a hasty retreat before my emotions erupted.
Had I exhibited more self-control, I could have told her that Timothy McVeigh’s stated reason for his terrorism was in protest of government actions at Waco and Ruby Ridge, gun control legislation, and other acts he viewed as “fascist.” Nowhere did he attempt to justify his actions with the Bible or Christianity. In fact, though McVeigh was raised a Catholic, he considered himself an atheist.
I might have named dozens of Muslim extremists who have recently committed acts of terrorism which they justified with direct quotes from the Qur’an. Not stories or anecdotes, like in the Bible, but imperatives to do exactly what they had done in the name of Allah. Then I could have asked her to name an equal number of Christian terrorists, and smugly watched as she sputtered and stalled for time.
Had I not let my emotions get the better of me, I could have told her of course Imam Rauf’s speech made sense — he was lecturing to a Western crowd, seeking to bamboozle them by practicing taqiyya and kitman, two forms of subterfuge that are not only sanctioned but commanded by the Qur’an when Muslims are dealing with their infidel enemies. I might have also said that Rauf is in fact an Islamic supremacist who falsely claims the U.S. Constitution is Shariah-compliant, and who is (allegedly) up to his eyeballs in the Muslim Brotherhood, which seeks the imposition of Shariah worldwide as stated in their charter.
I could have informed her that Rauf’s book, uncontroversially titled for Western consumption, is titled quite differently for the Muslim world: A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America post-9/11. Then I could have gone on to explain that dawa is Islamic missionary work, an imperative to convert the entire world to Islam … which Rauf wants to do “from the World Trade Center rubble.”
Had I not been so stunned by this woman’s confrontational stupidity, I might have mentioned Rauf’s repeated refusal to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah, or even to call them terrorist groups — despite their designation as such.
Perhaps I might have informed her that his book has been noted for its incorrect facts and figures, blatant falsehoods, and distortions of the true nature of Islam. Or maybe I could have mentioned the recent Arabic language interview where her esteemed bridge-building imam stated: “I don’t believe in religious dialogue.” (An interview that has conveniently vanished from the Internet.)
I failed.
We live in a small town, with a small library which my wife and I frequently visit. Not only was I stunned by this librarian’s behavior, not only was it apparent she was hopelessly entrenched in her views … but I simply didn’t want to make a scene. How very unlike me!
I allowed that misguided woman to imply I am a bigot, when clearly she is bigoted against anyone who doesn’t share her erroneous views. If opposing Salafists and their enablers makes me a bigot, I guess I’ll have to learn to wear that title with good humor and pride — but I’m not bigoted against all Muslims. In fact, I’d be proud to break bread with Zuhdi Jasser, Irshad Manji, or Shoaib Choudhury, all of whom are Muslim and sincerely engaged in efforts to reform Islam. As it’s Muslims who are most often harmed by jihadists, if anything, my stance is more likely to benefit Muslims than that of liberal Western enablers like that librarian, who provide cover for terrorists in the name of multiculturalism.
Shame on her!
I compounded my failure by allowing her to smear Christianity with the stain of Timothy McVeigh, which I knew was an unfair, unsupportable comparison. For the sake of expedience, I acquiesced to her smug air of superiority without challenge. And because she hasn’t been challenged, she’ll undoubtedly impose her faulty views on the next unsuspecting victim who enters her sphere of influence.
There’s a culture war raging in this country, and I retreated rather than defend what is right. I allowed myself to be bested by an old woman’s ignorance and my own base emotions. I’m ashamed, and I will endeavor to do better next time.
To my compatriots, I offer my apologies for allowing our flag to dip into the dirt.
I have long felt that muslims should not be allowed to become American citizens and all immigration from the Third World stopped. Their presence has radicalized certain sectors of a once relatively peaceful country and made the US not a better place but a poorer one. Diversity and multiculturalism for their own sake are worse than an empty cup but one that will not hold water. The baby boom in the Third World would wreck this country even if they were all Mother Teresa’s. Close the borders and stop globalizing America for morons who don’t like us, are incompetant and add nothing to the American exceptionalism but a strident voice to shout down that reality.
I’m not trying to be a “toll” or anything. But you guys need to stop. The things you are saying are really harmful and scary. I think the sense of political correctness in our society may be all that is stopping the tea party from becoming the 21st century American equivalent of the Nazi party. All that stopping someone from the tea party from rising to power on a platform that “Muslims are the enemy” that they shouldn’t be allowed in America. That they are a “treat to our great society”. And that “America is the most exceptional country in the history of the world.” That “our freedom makes us better than everyone else and we have a duty to fight to defend that freedom” I mean how many of you could get behind someone like that? ..it’s scary.
~Saturn
The United States is exceptional. It is founded so that free men may govern themselves . The core belief in human freedom ,embedded in our constitution and bill of rights, arise from Judiasm and Christianity . Such beleifs are completely alien to Islam which is a religion of submission and slavery . These are just plain the facts . The truth shouldn’t scare anyone . If you want to hide under your bed (or as a troll perhaps you prefer a bridge) be my guest . But the country is now too poor, thanks to previous misguided but expensive liberal nonsense, for you to go running to the government . There is no reason for a free people, Americans , to stop speaking the truth
Saturn:
Radical Islam is our enemy, by their declaration and acts, not ours. Have you been in a coma these past 25 years?
It is just amazing how many ad hominems and straw man arguments you were able to squeeze into one post. BTW, you are a troll, and a really poor typist, too.
Brian: Does my post meet with your approval?
Um Saturn, maybe you aren’t looking to be a troll, but you are successfully being one. A troll cries from under a bridge fee fiing their message, without understanding what’s actually happening on the bridge… you very obviously did NOT READ the message, as you continued to spew the exact message that the author was frustrated for not dealing with in the first place, duh. Yep,TROLL!
What have you actually read that will more or less objectively teach you anything about an opposite view from your own? I mean literally read or truly heard the opposing message? You wouldn’t have to agree with it, but at least hear it and then decide for yourself, using your veryown brain, no spitting up someone else’s view because you are too intellectually lazy to inform yourself from all sources… Good luck with that.
PS, the US is exceptional but for reasons that you couldn’t possibly be able to fathom as you swallow other peoples’opinions for your own. I, an American, live in France, by the way.
I come here to read opposing arguments, for intellectual reasons. But when I see people spewing nazi-like hate speech, I can’t just sit here with my mouth shut and let it happen. It’s just plain WRONG.
Hahaha, a hero of a higher morality has spoken, using of course the hate speech of the libruls, i.e., trying to pin the term Nazis on those who use their logic rather than their librul holier-than-thou emotions.
So here is your rap, Saturn? Almost all terrorists today are radical Islamists. Some Muslims are not radical Islamists. Ergo: we must do nothing to secure ourselves from harm that would likely be inflicted upon us by radical Islamists if it means hurting the feelings of or discomfiting Muslims in any way.
Very impressive.
You’re right. It’d definitely be safer for everyone if we put all the muslims in prison. But it’d get crowded so we’ll have to build special prison camps for them. Come to think of it, many black people are criminals (like Obama ZING!); they break the law at a much higher rate than white evangelicals. So maybe we could cut taxes if we reduced the need for law enforcement by putting impoverished urban blacks in the camps too! And hey we could lower unemployment by putting the illegal immigrants in there! And of course we’d put the leftist communists in there, that’s an easy one. ..they gays too so they don’t corrupt our children. Hey this is sounding like a great idea!
No, I’m not saying we shouldn’t investigate potential terror-threats if it might offend someone. But that’s an entirely different situation than what many of you are saying about muslims and their faith. I live in Michigan and I have a handful of Muslims friends, all of whom are among the nicest people you’ll ever meet. And seen them in tears over hearing the type of things said here. Seen the look of hurt in their eyes, There’s a difference between investigating a catholic priest for child sexual abuse, and saying catholics are unholy savage animals that are unfit to exist on this Earth. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not being a troll. I’m defending my friends.
Saturn,
I can understand where things get a little hazy with regards to the Muslim faith / individual. A Muslim who devoutly follows their faith 100% is committed to seeing everyone who will not join their side die.
Think about that and let it sink in.
Your Muslim friends, who may get offended and feel like trash because of certain posters, are not performing their religious duty if they do not have an animalistic hatred towards everyone non-Muslim. They need to watch their behavior around devout Muslims. If they aren’t careful their compassion to understand those who are not of their faith will get them killed in ways so horrific that the Geneva Convention outlawed them as a way to treat war prisoners.
Assuming that they were born here in America they have a privilege towards freedom of thought that no Muslim nation has or will allow. Rather than celebrate that fact by furthering their own intellectual desires they will instead be relentlessly pushed by their ideology to undermine what has founded this country. The single part of their faith that allows them to operate in our country at all is taqqiya because without it their ideological bloodbath would be subverted by our freedoms.
They would not be able to walk into Detroit, for example, tell everyone to their faces that will die in the name of Allah and then proceed to set up their own ghetto. No, they have to work covertly to set up an operation such as they have in numerous places around the world. Taqqiya allows them to be the nicest person in the universe to everyone around them. Just remember that while you think they are the greatest person in the universe they are hoping fervently that you either convert to their faith or that you die.
In summary, be careful Saturn. They may seem like great neighbors and whatnot, but your status as a non-Muslim means that you are on their convert / kill list. As for the practicing Muslims themselves, they also need to be careful. Under the assumption that they exhibit the American mentality and truly do care about their reputation they need to leave Islam immediately for their own safety.
Islam is not forgiving of laziness or godless behavior like Christianity, Judaism, and all other world religions. If a Muslim deviates from the path they have been instructed to take, at all, it is an offense against their faith which could easily result in death by any number of ways.
The determining factor in all of this is what you weigh them in as. Under their ideology they can lie to your face and tell you exactly what you want to hear in any situation. Rather than rely on their words to determine if they are confused Americans or faithful Muslims you need to observe their behavior towards everyone, including other Muslims. I can’t really help beyond that simply because I have not finished waging this religious game of Chess in my mind yet.
~Zamir
“That “our freedom makes us better than everyone else and we have a duty to fight to defend that freedom” I mean how many of you could get behind someone like that? ”
You mean you wouldn’t? You don’t believe we should fight for our liberty? Or that the founding of a nation on the principle that all men are created equal is not better than the founding of a nation on the principle that we’re all members of the same tribe?
You are right, and saturn is flat-out, one hundred percent WRONG.
The overwhelming majority of the American public rejects the pro-Muslim foreign policy that our supposed “betters” in the government, the media, academia, and the think tanks have foisted upon us ever since Ronald Reagan left office. Until the Tea Party came along, we have been voiceless. But the Ground Zero mosque and the TSA gropers incidents have finally awakened the American public to the need to do something about this already.
And if there were a single iota of truth to what saturn claims here, Col. Allen West would not have won the election in Florida.
“The overwhelming majority of the American public rejects the pro-Muslim foreign policy”
You may be right. And that’s what’s scary. That’s the same kinda political environment that allowed Hitler to come to power. People blamed the jews for all the problems they saw.
Allen west is black not Islamic…
Saturn:
Daniel Pearl would disagree.
I’m still waiting for you to write just one word in opposition to the jihadists.
Whoever you are, you need to wake up or one day the jihadists will be slicing YOUR head off with a dull rusty knife.
God bless America.
Brian: Does my post meet with your approval?
Hey… don’t be so hard on yourself. Sometimes you’re ambushed and shot out of the saddle before you see them. Chalk this one up as a grassy knoll experience. A ‘teachable moment’ as they say. This happens to me most of the time, as I’m not a quick thinker, or fast reactor. I think of things later I should have said, but the chance has long gone.
That’s the advantage of regularly scheduled voting dates. Your ballot really is all you need to say.
One who is not prepared to kill for his faith, race, civilization will lose, because those who truly believe in their causes will kill infidels in a second. It’s as simple as a two-year-old’s behavior. To find out where the boundaries are he keeps violating restrictions until he gets punished. Punished means ‘pain’ BTW, not Time-Out or no-dinner, which even I can remember as “getting away with it” in no uncertain terms. Mohammedans, Mexicans, Persians, NoKos will keep pushing us until we whip their butts or until we surrender by not whipping their butts. In human affairs, the bottom-line question is always the same: “So, what are you gonna do about it?”
I seriously doubt that there was anything you’d have said that would have opened her eyes to the facts.
I learned early on that some dialogues are not worth my time. People are amazingly ignorant. If memory serves, roughly half of the US population is practically illiterate. Add to that the fact that media has brainwashed us for decades, politically correctness, etc., and it’s nearly impossible to have a dialogue based on facts.
No, I do not have an answer, a solution another than a well-educated and read population.
You’re trying to describe colors to the blind. Good luck to you.
Ackerman is right. This woman isn’t looking for facts. She’s looking for evidence of her own moral superiority, so facts which might conflict with that, such as McVeigh’s rejection of his childhood Catholicism, never enter her head.
Tim-I disagree. If we stand up to their ignorance and lies, maybe they will start to think about what they say, hear or believe. We need to make them uncomfortable as they have made conservatives uncomfortable for decades.
Saying that,I have lost friends with my determination not to let lies go by and others have stopped forcing their opinions on me. And if I have made one person think-I won.
“I compounded my failure by allowing her to smear Christianity with the stain of Timothy McVeigh, which I knew was an unfair, unsupportable comparison.”
And that’s always the case with liberals. They always seek the moral equivalence in everything to justify their far-left views. Obviously, Timothy McVeigh was a terrible comparison when talking about radical Islamists, but in her mind as long as there was a single erroneous example in the Christian world of violence, it justified all of the death and mass murders (like 9/11) committed by the radical Islamists. To a liberal, bad behavior always justifies more bad behavior. Not only is this sick, but it also diminishes the actual horrific crimes committed by the radical Islamists, and that’s what liberals want. They always think that we are as bad as they are so that they are justified in whatever they do, no matter how horrible or on how big a scale. If we killed one Muslim by accident 15 years ago in an air raid, well then that justifies flying planes into buildings and killing 3,000 Americans, right? That sort of logic is not only sick, it shows you how much these far-left liberals hate this country. To say that this country does the same thing as people who think nothing of sawing off the head of a reporter like Daniel Pearl, is insulting and just plain wrong. It should be our duty to point these flaws out in their arguments. After all, silence does imply consent and we should never consent to those veiws. Ever, regardless of the consequences.
The difference between modern-day liberals and the rest of us is that liberals deny that there is, or can be, any difference between right and wrong. In that regard, they are truly more evil than Satan himself.
Liberals DO believe in right and wrong. It’s just that their standards are different from ours.
If you toe the Party Line, support all its positions, you are righteous and virtuous. Personal behavior? Anything goes.
Green energy? Right. Fossil fuels and nuclear. Wrong! You evil, evil person! You could be Mother Theresa, but if you drive a gas-hog, you are evil!
If you bike to work, rather than drive, you are Virtuous! If you are an outright crook at the same time, you are still Virtuous.
The new morality is based on political orthodoxy, not on those antiquated, superstitious, Christian notions. Yep, definitely gotta keep God out of government.
If you toe the Party Line, support all its positions,
you are righteous and virtuous. Personal behavior? Anything goes.
A snake is always a snake
A tiger is always a tiger
A Democrat is always a Democrat
They will always toe the party line… ALWAYS
I know how you feel Mr. Belgrad. Surely you realize however you could no more bring light to that darkness loving troglodyte than The Messiah could enlighten Pilate or the Sanhedrin. The Left doesn’t have a knowledge problem. There is all the knowledge in the world at everyone’s finger tips these days. Those who live in darkness love darkness. They choose it. Like sticking your finger in God’s face and saying, “I don’t believe in you.” “Give me a spontaneously generating self created universe … but not God. No. Not you. … Anything or even nothing, but not you.”
Thanks for the article. I’ve heard others use McVeigh as a way to establish a moral equivalency between islamic terrorists and Christianity. During the famous brouhaha on “The View” Whoopi Goldberg stated “what about McVeigh” in response to Bill O’Reilly’s comment about Muslims. This article will help me counter such BS from people who don’t know what they are talking about.
I saw the handwriting on the wall years ago and decided to stop being silent when liberals around me started their blather. I’ve watched for the last 50 years as they slowly tried to tear down the country and they’ve come close under B.O. My response to her would have been “Yes, but your liberal policies won’t allow us to profile to sort out the few good ones, and I don’t really have the time to do it anyway since I’m too busy supporting 3 or 4 families due to your tax and spend philosophy.”
You might have but it likely wouldn’t have done much good. You’re not going to pierce that level of stupidity with facts, after all. You did the right thing.
No he didn’t. Every time a liberal fool says Hitler or McVeigh were Christians, it’s important to point out that that is a lie spread by atheists to attack Christians and cover the tracks of fellow atheists.
And if you were on top of your game, you would have changed her views? You know better than that. Next time just don’t let her press your big red button.
Hey, no hard feelings….I’m sure most of us have had similar experiences in varying contexts – discretion is the better part of valor etc.
A more succinct retort might have been to have smiled and nodded in agreement while saying “and when we finally become Sharia-compliant, you can shut your mouth until you’re spoken to, infidel whore”
See if the penny drops in her hollow skull after hearing that
This is precisely what most Leftist Liberals do not want to acknowledge: They are literally advocating their own destruction by supporting Fundamentalist Islam.
After such a long history of pushing society toward civil equality for all, freedoms of speech, of association, and so on, why on earth would anyone want to throw it all away?
In the truest sense of the word, the so-called conservative right is actually fighting for liberal rights. And the leftists do not want any part of this. It still boggles my mind that this is so.
They are starting to get it in France, but they are doing it wrong, trying be legalistic ( I had a dream last night about the anti burqua law being used against Christians for practicing their faith… could it happen-the Pope seems concerned?). Something to think about…
forgot to add see US exceptionalism comment above, that might help clarify my intentions in this comment.
How dare she compare all Christians to Timothy McVeigh, the one terrorist in recent memory tagged as a Christian by the media?
Excellent that you put in that McVeigh considered himself an atheist/agnostic. The claim that he was driven by Christianity is often made by the “grasping-at-straws” crowd of relativists and, ironically, atheist/agnostics.
With regard to Hitler, well done. Here’s a like to a pdf describing Hitler’s relationship to the churches based the near-contemporaneous research of Gen. Donovan for the Nuremberg trials. Here’s a link to an index of other Nuremberg documents many of which relate to Hitler’s attempts to end Christianity.
For more irony look at the Nazi attitude towards Christmas. You can see it reflected in the face of just about every American public school superintendent.
Adolph Hitler had probably lost his Catholic faith by no later than his late teens. He thought Christianity was something of a Jewish con game created to disempower the Aryan people. The Nazis pursued a phase out policy regarding the Christian churches. They would simply wither away as the German people eventually got their act together. The members of the SS often attended quasi-religious services in honor of the ancient pagan gods. They barely tolerated their own wives and children attending regular Church services on Sunday morning.
I compounded my failure by allowing her to smear Christianity with the stain of Timothy McVeigh, which I knew was an unfair, unsupportable comparison. For the sake of expedience, I acquiesced to her smug air of superiority without challenge.
It’s not merely unfair, it’s a bloody lie. Jasser seems like a nice man. If you break bread with him ask him why he is a member of an intolerant supremacist “religion” which was started by a murdering pedophile whose evil book commands its followers to spread the “religion” by deceit and force, and which, wherever it is in the majority, denies basic civil rights to the people?.
Yes, I believe you fell for the acquiescence our society wants from you. I will not ever again be quiet for the not causing a scene scenario.
Before the recent elections, I made a quip while buying a pack of taxes. The cashier came back with some MSM drivel. I took the time to set the person straight. I laid everything out with references and several places on the net the cashier could access the TRUTH, instead of the fallacies she believed.
I do not know how many times I have read on the net the lie that McVeigh was acting as a Christian. I never allow that one to slide. Boy is it getting a LOT of use over the last couple years.
I believe the whole situation in the airports is just to reinforce our servile place. We kinda got uppity in the last election, so time to beat the serfs back into their place.
Well, I say go buy more books and, “engage,” in debate again. Just be sure to reign in, or at least control your temper.
Thanks for sharing your experience; many of us have pondered the question, “To Speak Up or Not to Speak Up?” when confronted with people who parrot the MSM’s leftist/political-correctness talking heads.
Since I gave up on the old media years ago because of their lack of objective/adequate reporting, I turned to the internet and books, while trying to avoid the vast stupidity that resides on the web.
One Example of Many: While reading the online Wall Street Journal late last year, I read about the global scam exposed in an event now called Climategate. Eager to understand WHAT was happening, and curious about why the old media NEVER tackled the issue, I turned to websites that reported the climate views of scientists who were not in the cabal. (The most-visited and respected climate news website is Wattsupwiththat.) The more I read climate news, the more I realized climate science was sophisticated political tripe.
My seeking the truth has been enlightening. I’ve learned that the people who still blindly follow the old media speak an entirely different language from mine. You can spot them because of their blather…..I usually laugh at them; maybe I should study the “Rules for Conservative Radicals” for quick spot-on retorts; however as long as they are blind, you won’t probably have an impact with logic.
the TRUTH !
you don’t need rules for radicals. the idiots you speak of did not read that or anything else like it. they just swallow the main stream crap and even use the same words/talking points. not a single original thought
I think your response was just fine; especially pointing out the bit about Hitler. I also find it difficult to think on my feet; I have to mull things over to be prepared, which over time I have tried to do.
Some things I’ve pondered about situations like you describe: what was her reason for saying what she did? Was she trying to make a new convert to her “religion”? If so, it didn’t work. Would anything I say cause her to rethink her beliefs? If so, what?
For me, asking a question which causes someone to think (if they are at all open to thinking) is the best I can do to engage that person without losing my cool.
so you engage in debate and it is only a matter of moments before you will be labeled a racist and then the tourette’s diatribe of “BUSH this… Bush that…”
it does no good to try to speak to a lefty in the hopes of getting them to see your point
arguing with a moron only brings you to their level where they have all the experience
we need to be talking with all the “independents” and misguided “dems” that know something is not right but cant put their fingers on it
the wacky left is, at best, representative of 20% of people; our goals should be to have dialogue with the other 80%
Oh for goodness sake, get over it. She’s a librarian and like most librarians, self-riteously leftist. The only thing she ever hears from her collegues and professional organizations is the tripe she spouted off to you. She’s more to be pitied than anything else. Stony silence and a glare would have let her know her views were offensive to you, more than any upsetting debate. Besides, you were upset and would probably come across as crazy person. She should have been the professional in the situation and let your book purchase pass without comment. Trust me, librarians love to talk a good talk about making sure libraries promote “diversity” and “understanding,” but the reality is, these “professionals” are liberal bigots the same as any other liberal bigots.
I shoud know. I am one.
Can’t tell you how many times I have had to bite my tongue in a workplace situation and walk away from comments about “racist tea party members,” “that MF Bush,” etc., Its just so much part of the atmosphere in libraries, there’s just no point in debate -not unless you want to loose your job for being “obnoxious.” Is it fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.
You could always complain to the library’s management about the leftist/jihadist bias being espoused by library staff.
Another thing: you might want to observe whether books by counterjihad authors are available at that same library, and if not, ask why not.
I am referring to an academic library. And I’d be complaining to the management who vociferously supports these views. ‘Nuff said.
“There’s a culture war raging in this country, and I retreated rather than defend what is right. I allowed myself to be bested by an old woman’s ignorance and my own base emotions. I’m ashamed, and I will endeavor to do better next time.”
Thanks for the article, it must have been difficult to write. I notice you didn’t say whether or not there were other library customers there with you at the time. Let’s assume there were, in which case you needed to have “pushed-back” against this ignorance, after all, as you acknowledge, we truly are in a culture war. And in a war, every attack which is not defended against represents a loss of precious battleground.
We today are where we are because for almost a 100 years of Progressive “push” we have not “pushed-back”. There’s a valuable lesson to be learned here for all. It’s past time to realize that if we don’t engage when engaged, we will lose this war.
Is that what we want? When this war is over and we’ve lost because we didn’t engage/respond, then who’s fault is that?
Your article was needed.
Mr. Belgrad,
It takes a good man to admit his errors. Life can be hectic, and all of us cannot always be prepared to dispatch the stupid amongst us.
Thank you for not shrinking from the fight after stumbling.
Fortunately, much to the chagrin of petulant progressives, this “nation of Christians” still has enough cultural influence to instill a sense of redemption and forgiveness to those willing to ask.
These concepts are at the core of both Judaism and Christianity. Yet, redemption and forgiveness seem to be foreign to the sharia compliant nations of the world.
Go figure.
I recently was engaged in watching the Vikings Packers game at a local watering hole. I was enjoying a very nice conversation with a couple to my right. As all know, one thing led to another where we sussed out that we were all elephants. The conversation naturally went to the politics we exspouse. This was then interupted by a guy that had to get his two cents in about W. I politly told him that we were not talking with you and your comments are not wanted. “well I can hear you he said” . I came back with, “you can kick me out of here if I light up a smoke, or even if I get to tipsy. BUT…you cannot silence me.” The conversation was between people minding our own business, and we did not appreciate it. But instead of just grinning and bearing it…He went on about US, not even about politics anymore. I walked up to him and asked if he would like to go outside to discuss what he thought about me. That ended the whole thing….I stand up for my right to speak.
What you should have said is Timmy WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN,and it was the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT who set him up. Then you could have added that while not all muslims are bad,they are responsible for over 90% OF ALL TERRORIST ACTS. She would have walked away,probably talking to herself.
An excellent opening salvo from Mr. Belgrad–God willing we will be hearing more from him. As a Christian, I in particular appreciate his willingness to stand up for politically-correct slander against Christians.
(Also, remember, librarians are, as a whole, some of the most liberal and p.c. folks in the land. Must be something about those MLS degrees.)
But many (if not all) of us have probably been in Robert’s shoes before–I know that, as confrontational as I am, I’ve sometimes stifled myself in much the same manner because I simply don’t want to weather the emotional outburst and concomitant lack of logic and knowledged that usually erupts when such morons are confronted. Perhaps something else Jesus said could come in handy in such situations: be wise as serpents but harmless as doves.
OK, poor choice of prepositions: I meant “stand up AGAINST….slander….”
Anyone who judges the past with the morality of the present is a fool, or misses the point of history. In my 3 conversations online with terrorists, (I’m sure someone is watching my Ebay purchases) I have learned this: they are woefully misinformed AND they cannot conceive of a culture or country that evolves. Because theirs cant. Not just the 4 year stuff, but the Jim crow to Obama or the burn-the-bra to the glass ceiling kind of change. Therefore, they view the west as the sum of all the wrongs of all the years and cannot understand the question, “but would we do it now?”…. answer: of course not!
They all said the same thing to me, “It is my duty as a Muslim” to nuke the west and remove this evil from the world.
They have a stagnant, sick, culture and they are tribal on top of it.
They are from another planet, Captain Kirk, we need you.
Next time you hear something like this – ask the liberal if she is ready to be open minded and defend the Tea Party movement from the accusations of terrorism, bigotry and intolerance. That would shut her up.
I have a theory that may be linked to this type of circumstance. It is that computers, namely writing programs in computers, are making us simultaneously poorer speakers, and, to put it bluntly, incompetent writers. Who can possibly write something these days with ink in one or two drafts? I speak for myself, and assume others may be similar, that I am constantly correcting misspellings (which I just spelled wrong), chopping off entire ideas and adding others without the due effort that would be apparent if it were in ink. I believe it has the effect to make us lazier, despite the apparent contradiction in appearance. We want to believe we are smarter these days, but we are most likely wholly unprepared when compared to what preparedness was in the past. Perhaps, that is why our society seems out of the hands of the people, and taken by totalitarian forces that must inevitably come to be when people need to be more and more corralled. And speaking of devolution, just think of how illiterate this next generation will be with all their short-forms of speech and jive talk.
Whenever I read the writing of our Founders I am amazed at the skill with which they were able to use words. And not just on official documents. Personal letters to colleagues and spouses are almost universally to-the-point and unambiguous. Reading the letter sent back of forth between John Adams and his wife I am struck with the thoughtfulness with which the words were chosen. And all done with quill and ink.
Amazing.
Amazing…just yesterday i had a “discussion” with a woman who had a extreme case of PDS..this was in a train station in Chicago…she was very loud in her comebacks to me..as I explained to her that the MSM was reduced to only lies now…that ANYTHING they could have dug up would have been smeared all over the press……..her learned reply was that Bristol looked pregnant again and the younger daughter looked “sexual”….I was stunned for a nano-second….then in my loud booming voice i replied..was she interested in the sex lives of the Obama girls..or just the Palin girls….and that her interest in child sexuality was SICK..and she needed help…..all in a VERY LOUD voice…the entire train platform was looking at her…not me….i got many smiles and nods on the train…..KEEP FIGHTING BACK
AAAAAAlol
It’s even harder when the ignorant fool is a much loved member of your own family.
I f you have a good look around,there are milions like you that would rather walk than argue. You need to tell everyone to stand ground but don’t raise their voice.Just talk reason and the left will trip over their bottom lip.
Your passive-aggressive blog post is certainly one way to respond to the librarian’s commentary. Of course, she had a pretty good point – too bad you became self-defensive rather than engaging in thoughtful dialogue.
There is a problem with religious fanatics in the world, and this problem is not endemic only to Islam – it is also a long standing part of the Christian world as well. Timothy McVeigh might not be the best example of a “Christian” terrorist – but there are plenty of others. Reactionary responses are just an easy way to avoid addressing the underlying question: what can be done to reduce the violence associated with religious fundamentalism – regardless of the faith in question.
Next time, take an opportunity to think more deeply, rather than resorting to Godwin’s law and running away.
Peace.
DS
Oh, yeah.
“Peace”–what a lovely touch! For you, it’s just a word.
So many Christian terrorists that you forgot to name any. Please don’t start with the Crusades! Yes, you can have the Crusades, one grants the Crusades. A millennium ago, even half a millennium ago, and my goodness it’s an awful blight on the Christian religion, yes. But–where are the dozens and scores of present-day Christian terrorists to match the Moslem ones?
“Peace.” Everyone can say it! How about “Salaam”?
um … excuse me but the Crusades were in response to Muslim aggression and genocide in the Middle East. And then there was that thing with the invasion of Spain. Just sayin.
David S,
You must have been reading from the “progressive” Little Red Cookbook–”religious fanatics?” “reactionary?” “passive-aggressive?” Such big and loaded words with which to smear those you don’t like! How open-minded of you!
Meanwhile, we’re waiting for this list of “Christian terrorists,” since you stated that there are “plenty of others.”
["Jeopardy" theme playing.....]
Here are a few “Christian” terrorists you might remember:
Scott Roeder
Paul Hill
David McMenemy
Clayton Waagner
Eric Rudolph
Shelley Shannon
Michael Bray
John Salvi III
Mark David Uhl
James Charles Kopp
Shall I go on?
Peace.
DS
What … utter … idocy.
Extreme Christian fundamentalists are the Amish. Or maybe Mennonites. The Son of God preached LOVE. He informed of a God of Love. What do you get when you take that to extremes? Mother Theresea at the worst.
You leftists pukes like to take sick cultists and make them into ‘christians’. Liars!
hey …I adopted a family of Amish …to offset my carbon footprint.
lol couldn’t reist.
cheers
I am sorry to see you are back here, David. You were not missed.
The flaw in your argument is the notion of the “long association of violence with religious fundamentalism”. Associated by whom? And which religions?
Buddhists. When they are fundamentalist, are they violent? Perhaps the Zoroastrians are? Taoists? Perhaps those who still worship the Norse gods? (yes, they exist.) Do Jews fall into that category?
See, it is really about Christianity. No denunciation of Islam follows your statement, despite the fact that the Qu’ran does indeed advocate violence. It says nothing about love. Nothing! The whole “religious fundamentalism” is code for denouncing Christian adherents. It is a smear, because it throws Islam and Christianity together, as if they were equivalents. They are NOT!
Have folks done evil things in the name of Christianity? Yes, but such are not Christians. Such flies specifically in the face of the faith. God COMMANDS: Thou shalt not murder, covet, steal, lie, nor commit adultery.
Now, tell me again about “violent religious fundamentalism”?
In whose culture / religion is it, that parents dress up their toddlers in the gear worn by suicide bombers? Where is it that we find a museum in which the scene at a pizza parlor in Israel, blown up by a suicide bomber, is lovingly recreated–the deaths of grannies and children in strollers, etc.?
As others have posted here, it’s clear that there is a religion that calls for the deaths of non-believers, that dehumanizes them, and promises a heavenly (well, you should pardon the use of that word in this context!) reward for successful murderers.
Who were the Christian and Jewish martyrs, after all? People who accepted death rather than deny their faith. Martyros means “witness,” in Greek; they let their death be witness to how committed they were to their God. The Moslems apparently use the same word, “martyr,” to describe those of their co-religionists who choose death while also choosing murder for as many other people as they can.
How can one not feel utter contempt for such people, and for any who do not denounce what they do in unequivocal terms?
thoughtful dialogue? from the left?—– most definitely an oxymoron
the most feared fundamentalists are the secularists
secularism is the demented faith of the left and because they have stumbled upon the powers of “faith” they seek to foist it on everyone as if it were just discovered recently
but faith based on humanity as the divine makes the deranged followers of traditional religions look like sanity
No apologies necessary, Robert.
We are all cowards at one time or another. You know, Eric Holder called us cowards for not wanting to discuss race. Not here, anonymously or even semi-shielded by the safety of isolation behind a computer screen, but live, in real time, in person.
I think there is an even greater sin currently raging within our shores. Something that casues as much or more hesitation, shrinking, timid and faltering voices barely audible and trembling lips.
To be called a McCarthy-ite if one points at rampant, unchecked leftism and calls it socialism or communism.
It is now clear to all but the fellow travelers and their circus peanut gallery of useful idiots, that our gates have been stormed by stealth socialism. There is a wildfire blazing across the leftist spectrum at the moment, because the far leftist reaches of this group wanted to carpe diem while they had the supermajority and cram the entire crap sandwich down our throats and against our will.
They are furious that the Comrade in Chief was still in stealth mode, not wanting to give away the mask just yet. The Ted Rall, Michael Moore, Spencer Ackerman wing wants armed insurrection.
And yet, the Republicans (our only voice in the big tent game) REFUSES to engage the conversation for fear of being labeled McCarthy-ite.
Many,if not most of our best writers and essayists, tiptoe around the issue, for fear of being marginalized out of serious consideration.
We refuse to engage. And while we probably would not be able to easily convince the brainwashed and easily duped “useful” idiots, if we put down the jigsaw puzzle pieces one by one and built the picture, at least we could call the question.
Do we want to be a socialist nation? The FIRST point of attack, should be to stop calling the lapdog media for leftism…”mainstream”. That is a cosmic joke. It is a socialist front group today.
Unless and until we, the people…as a nation…are ready, willing and able to stand up and call socialism precisely what it is, instead of these candy pants euphemisms, we will ALL be and remain…cowards.
Socialism isn’t a dirty word. It’s just a crappy system that doesn’t work and wouldn’t be accepted if put to a vote, so we get the entire cloak and dagger stealth, hidden, masked, fraud perpetrated on the nation.
If we are too afraid to stand up and call it what it is, that librarian will be burning our books soon, not lending them out. We are all cowards, Robert. I am first among them.
It is time for patriots to stand up and call the question, shine a light on the vermin hiding behind the baseboards. And to start calling things what they really are. Socialism is socialism…it’s not “liberal”, it’s not “progressive”, it’s not “elite”.
The lapdog media is not “liberal”, it is not slightly partial, it is a front group.
Unless and until we do that…cowardice is the least of our worries. Being eaten alive from the inside, now that’s something to worry about.
And no…the recent election doesn’t cure it. Not even close.
Cowards no longer.
Be prepared to give an account of your Constitutional and patriotic stand.
Be clever. Be anticipatory, knowing, for example, that when you enter a den of commies — as is generally the case with library staff — that this encounter provides an opportunity. She was laying in wait for you, dear author, and you were non-plussed.
No more. Think ahead, be pro-active. Know that they win when they intimidate us into silence, effectively, as she did to you.
If we cannot muster the will and brains to combat the left WHERE WE MEET THEM then they effectually gain more ground. They need to understand that their view of the world is wrong, bankrupt, and destructive to freedom.
This is war; so far, only a war of ideas.
Don’t forget that you also have another opportunity–when you return the book!
Thanks for caring so much.
You would have just wasted your time and energy trying to change her mind, you did a good job with what you had to work with. There are lots of people in this country just like her, which is why we have the elected officials we do have. To learn more go to takingonissues.com
robert,one thing you have to remember about liberals,is that like moslems,they punish apostates.if she were to say any of the things you thought of saying to her,she would lose her friends and possibly her job.speaking the truth can be a very expensive proposition,and understandably many are unwilling to pay the costs.in order to convert people like that,you would have to remove the fear of loss(in other words,you would have to be able to replace her entire support system,friends,job and all,beforeit would be safe to change her mind.)you cant possibly do that.youre not simply working with facts and logic here,there is that unseen portion of the person you cant make safe,so you cant possibly convert them.like others,id like to thank you for your kind words about christianity,and assure you that by no means did you drag the flag in the dirt.some battles are unwinnable,so theres no point in fighting them…fight the ones that are.
The real value of this article? Helping all of us think through IN ADVANCE what we would/could/should say … or not say.
Pick our battles (a lesson I’m still struggling to master). Why waste time/energy on the ignorant and intractable (those who “know” so much, but understand so little) or the pathologically progressive?
“You’re kidding right? I mean, you don’t actually believe that hogwash, do you? No informed, educated, intelligent person believes that!”
These Leftist dupes are very susceptible to peer pressure. You have to use Leftist tactics against them. Shame them. These are emotional, insecure people. She was complimenting your book choice and gushing over the author, because that was the “in” thing to do. She was looking for confirmation of her “in” status. Give her the opposite.
Perhaps they really believe that, in which case, you engage in dialogue via questions… leading questions. Even when you refute, use a question. “What about…?” When you do that, you tie them in knots, because they have to try to use facts to back up their positions… and they can’t!
Sometimes, they are just dogmatic. In which case, you simply say, “Well, you are entitled to your worthless, dogmatic opinion, of course.”
larryv, couldn’t have said it better.
That was only one little conversation in a library. I spent many hours during years giving facts that can be checked, not opinions, to some persons that were open mind with me because personal relations.
When they begin to doubt their prior p.c. leftist convictions they back down because what you say.
Toujours Pret
Mr. Belgrad, I thought your answer to the liberal librarian shopkeeper was very appropriate. It was simple and could not be misunderstood. Your calm demeanor no doubt left the shopkeeper confused and maybe more agitated than you know. The word “nonplussed” comes to mind.
My opinion is this, you said exactly what you should have said, then came here to blow off steam. Kudos to you.
Thank you all for taking the time to read my article and leave such thoughtful comments. This is my first piece at Pajamas Media, and I appreciate the interest you’ve shown.
I would like to state, for the record, that I have known many librarians throughout the years, and grown quite fond of some of them. I have found them to be (usually) pleasant, helpful and an invaluable resource for anyone seeking information – far beyond simply locating books on a shelf.
Despite the misguided opinions of the woman I mentioned in my article, I have a great respect for librarians.
Again, thanks for your comments. I wish you all a safe and happy Thanksgiving.
Neoprogs can not be reasoned with, and should never be engaged in debate. You might as well try to argue a pig out of slop; like the hog to his slop, neoprogs will never stop.
YES …politics like religion … change of though is an individual journey. (very few can admit they are/were incorrect)
Mr. Belgrad, as you can imagine by my geographic identifiers … I feel your pain. IMHO, there’s no shame in being taken by surprise by an ignorant attitude, one shaped by a myriad of true believers. What does one do in a situation like that? If you play into those people’s stereotypes, they’ll only feel more justified in their beliefs by slapping you down with social ostracism.
In addition to my biting down on turkey and ham this coming Thursday, I reckon that among my friends my tongue will get bitten, too.
That you’ve resolved to be better prepared next time speaks well of you. It says you care, and will take action, rather than being cowed. You sound like an American to me!
Dealing with folks like the librarian takes skill and savoir faire, and making sure not to give them either the agreeing reaction they want or the disagreeing reaction they’ll take as confirmation that non-leftist believers are evil. And I reckon you’ve already come up with some good ideas …
Y’all, thank you for the information on McVeigh and on Hitler (I did read the PDF from the Nuremburg Tribunals). They’ll figure into my casual remarks the next time the opportunity presents itself, as it inevitably will here.
I take consolation in the fact that, with a skillful response, you can get to watch the lefties’ heads explode.
Wow, wasn’t there just an article called “Muslims Behaving Badly”?
And another article called “Islam Expert Not Shocked by Disappearance of ‘Draw Muhammad’ Cartoonist”?
And another called “Christians Warn Against Double Standard in Wake of Quran Burning Row”?
And another “Koran Burning: How Dare the Muslim World Lecture America on Religious Tolerance”?
And another “Muslims Resume Building on Christian Graveyard in Pakistan”?
And another “NYC Mosque Rhetoric May Harm Persecuted Christians”?
And another “Controversial Jesus TV Show Canceled in Lebanon”?
And another “Pakistani Court Acquits Christian Woman of ‘Blasphemy”?
And another “Prospects of Religious Freedom Appear Grim in Islamic Maldives”?
And another “Poll: 3 in 5 New Yorkers Oppose Ground Zero Mosque”?
And another “Muslim Protesters Surround Worshippers in Indonesia”?
Gee, for so few radicals out there in the world, they sure get around, don’t they? But, they told us their religion was peaceful? You mean they lied to us? And we Socialist Progessive’s (I mean Democrat American’s) believed them? I guess I should stop watching the Main, I mean Lame-Stream Media? Oh my God, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NPR, and PBS have all become Pravda America?
I wonder if the “strip joint” around the corner from the Mosque at Ground Zero was similar to the one that many of the 911 Muslim terrorists attended the night before they flew the planes into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, etc murdering thousands, many who were women and children?
If these people were religious terrorists and not political terrorists or people acting out on political grievances, how could they have drank, gone to strip clubs, and rented hookers the night before they supposedly wanted to meet Allah? (Notice I didn’t say God, I said Allah). So if everybody doesn’t accept their version of reality, that somehow invalidates it for them. Everybody must believe the same things they do. Solution to this problem? Believe it or not, there is. It’s called an election and it just happened. Next, America needs to vote Barry and his “Progressives” out.
Creeping Sharia in the United States
In some ways, it speaks of the goodness of America that we have had such difficulty coming to grips with the challenge of radical Islamists. It is our very commitment to religious liberty that makes us uncomfortable with defining our enemies in a way that appears linked with religious belief.
However, America’s commitment to religious liberty has given radical Islamists a potent rhetorical weapon in their pursuit of sharia supremacy. In a deliberately dishonest campaign exploiting our belief in religious liberty, radical Islamists are actively engaged in a public relations campaign to try and browbeat and guilt Americans (and other Western countries) to accept the imposition of sharia in certain communities, no matter how deeply sharia law is in conflict with the protections afforded by the civil law and the democratic values undergirding our constitutional system.
The problem of creeping sharia is most visibly on display in France and in the United Kingdom, where there are Muslim enclaves in which the police have surrendered authority and sharia reigns. However, worrisome cases are starting to emerge in the United States that show sharia is coming here. Andy McCarthy’s writings, including his new book The Grand Jihad, have been invaluable in tracking instances in which the American government and major public institutions have been unwilling to assert the protections of American law and American values over sharia’s religious code. Some examples include:
In June 2009, a New Jersey state judge rejected an allegation that a Muslim man who punished his wife with pain for hours and then raped her repeatedly was guilty of criminal sexual assault, citing his religious beliefs as proof that he did not believe he was acting in a criminal matter. “This court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited.” Thankfully, this ruling was reversed in an appellate court.
In May 2008, a disabled student at a public college being assisted by a dog was threatened by Muslim members of the student body, who were reluctant to touch the animal by the prescription of sharia. The school, St. Cloud State, chose not to engage the Muslim community, but simply gave the student credit without actually fulfilling the class hours so as to avoid conflict.
In a similar instance in November 2009, a high school senior in Owatonna, Minn., was suspended in order to protect him from the threat of violence by radical Islamists when he wrote an essay about the special privileges afforded his Somali Muslim counterparts in the school environment.
In order to accommodate sharia’s prohibition of interest payments in financial transactions, the state of Minnesota buys homes from realtors and re-sells them to Muslims at an up-front price. It is simply not the function of government to use tax money to create financial transactions that correspond to a religious code. Moreover, it is a strategy to create a precedent for legal recognition of sharia within U.S. law.
Amazingly, there are strong allegations that the United States now owns the largest provider of sharia financing in the world: AIG.
Last month, police in Dearborn, Mich., which has a large Muslim population, arrested Christian missionaries for handing out copies of the Gospel of St. John on charges of “disturbing the peace.” They were doing so on a public street outside an Arab festival in a way that is completely permissible by law, but, of course, forbidden by sharia’s rules on proselytizing. This is a clear case of freedom of speech and the exercise of religious freedom being sacrificed in deference to sharia’s intolerance against the preaching of religions other than Islam.
Shockingly, sharia honor killings-in which Muslim women are murdered by their husbands, brothers or other male family members for dishonoring their family-are also on the rise in America but do not receive national attention because they are considered “domestic disturbances.” (A recent article in Marie Claire Magazine highlights recent cases and the efforts to bring national attention to this horrifying trend.)
Cases like this will become all the more common as radical Islamists grow more and more aggressive in the United States.
It’s humourous how the left always feels as if everyone is touchy feely
like they are. When they find out that there are “thinkers” out there
they get all tense and nervous, lash out and name call.
LOL funny lot the libs are if they weren’t so damn dangerous.
Thanks for the Face Book add Robert.