In Speech to Turkey, PM David Cameron Goes Full Idiot
British Prime Minister David Cameron’s July 27 speech in Turkey will not live on in history. But it should, as an example of the decline of Western diplomacy and of suicide by political correctness. It is a textbook example of how not to conduct international affairs.
It crossed my mind that the speech was written by the Foreign Office for the express purpose of making Cameron look foolish, but then I realized that he and his top advisors probably have no idea why it was such a disaster.
Suppose you are the British prime minister going to Turkey, or to just about any country. What should you say? The theme should be: We can cooperate and do mutually beneficial things. Here’s what I can do for you; here’s what I’d like you to do for me. And here’s what you must not do in order to reap the benefits of my friendship and favor.
Obviously, you need to dress that up in appropriate language. But everything should be conditional. The message to be delivered is that it is in your interest to respect my interests.
Cameron did the precise and exact opposite. His message was: The UK needs Turkey. Turkey is wonderful. Its behavior has been perfect. We are desperate for your help.
What is the effect? A man goes into a bazaar, points to a carpet, and says, “That is the most beautiful carpet I have ever seen. I must have it no matter what the price! How much is it?”
In addition, Cameron committed some other howling mistakes, several of which will amaze you. So please stick with me as I explain and document this — you won’t be disappointed. And remember this is not just a matter of one speech; it is a fitting symbol for the entire contemporary Western diplomatic approach to the Middle East, and much more to the world as well. By the way, it is doomed to fail miserably.
Before we begin, remember that this is no longer the old Turkish Republic. Cameron is lavishing praise on an Islamist-oriented regime which has aligned itself with Iran and revolutionary Islamist groups. And all of Cameron’s pandering, as if he were a Western barbarian in the court of the all-powerful Ottoman sultan, is driving a knife into the heart of a Turkish opposition which is genuinely friendly toward the West and horrified by the current regime’s subversion of Turkish democracy.
Cameron began by saying:
I’ve come to Ankara today to establish a new partnership between Britain and Turkey. I think this is a vital strategic relationship for our country.
Note the cringing here. One might have said: “I think this is a vital strategic relationship for our countries.” In other words, the speaker would stress there is a mutual benefit. Instead, this polite approach makes it sound as if Turkey is doing the United Kingdom a favor by having a strategic relationship with it. And this is precisely the interpretation put on such things in the local context. This kind of humbleness/flattery is also seen in President Barack Obama’s speeches.
And here it is again:
People ask me why [I’m visiting] Turkey and why so soon. I’ll tell you why. Because Turkey is vital for our economy. Vital for our security. And vital for our politics and diplomacy.
So Turkey holds all the cards, and the West can do nothing but give concessions in hope of winning favor in its eyes. One should remember that a major theme of Iran, Syria, and this Turkish regime is that nothing can be achieved without them, and so the West must bow to their will and do everything they want. Cameron is feeding this monster.
According to him, there are no problems with Turkey on security:
Turkey is a great NATO ally. And Turkey shares our determination to fight terrorism in all its forms — whether from al-Qaeda or the PKK. [Note that he fails to mention Hamas or Hezbollah!] But perhaps more significant still is the fact that Turkey’s unique position at the meeting point of East and West gives it an unrivaled influence in helping us get to grips with some of the greatest threats to our collective security.
Look, you don’t go to a country and criticize it (unless the country is Israel. Now why is that?), but you don’t tell them that everything they are doing is great because if that’s not true they will keep on doing it and know there is no cost. Turkey under this regime is not a pro-Western state helping the West against its “Eastern” enemies — as Turkey was between, say, 1950 and 2000 — nor is it a neutral meeting ground. At present, Turkey is on the enemy side.
Against a Labour party that was completely and utterly discredited David Cameron still failed to win the election, because he had already gone “full idiot”. His behaviour in Turkey is merely another example of it.
To anyone who has followed the recent British election, this is no surprise. Cameron wants his place in history for a “new world order” in Britain. Being a “modern man”, he doesn’t care how he gets it. Sound familiar? He distanced himself early, publicly, from Margaret Thatcher, who stood up for Britain. Apparently afraid of identification with “dinosaurs”, and as “patriot”. He is Labour Lite/the Hillary Clinton of British politics, and just as destructive of Britain as Gordon Brown. The modern man, persona for all the destructive policies fashionable in the English speaking West for the past 50 years. He can hardly be deemed an especiallly intelligent person, even politically. But we’re unlikely to read/hear any remarks about his “intelligence” so fashionable among the class-conscious envious wannabee guardinistas and BBC for Republican presidents in the US. But for Cameron to get his place in history he had to, even to the most disinterested observer, sell out to “coalition”. So now he is hostage to that sell-out, as are his country and his “allies”.
Cameron did everything except crawl on his knees & kiss the new Sultan’s feet.
i don’t think cameron was kissing erdogan’s feet. in fact, i am pretty sure it was his penis cameron was kissing. probably just one of those british upper class things.
Did you notice that Erdogan Armenicide stood one step above Camaroon to greet him?
They could have met on the level carpet. No?
Oh, well, at least Camaroon didn’t bow down like the Buraq.
Dear Barry Rubin,
Just this morning before receiving the pjm news Iemailed to David Cameron a detailes speech telling him clearly that what he said in Ankara is just some of his foolish ideas. Plus he critizised and attacked openly the attitude of Mrs. Angie Merkel and the french president Mr. Nicolas Sarkozy for their attitude, see opposition for an adhesion of Turkey to the EU, which presence brings only problems tha Erdogan effendi is managing in order to alledge his Turkey social problems; Turkey with an unkown demographic explosion of approximately 3.5 to 5.0% will be inondating the entire EU yearly with more than one million of his ottoman poor fellows ang pushing the EU into an extrmely grave economical and social disequilibrium with no return. U.K. is a bankrupt country, and the british people are toaly aware of their problems which became almost without any possible saveguard. So dear Barry, your comment is fully correct and like the latin proverb before 2000 years said: stultorum infinitus numerus est (the number of idiots is numerous)
Rather than give a speech like this, I’m sure Sir Winston Churchill would have simply stayed home. And fired the speechwriter who sent this sort of drivel up to him.
As for Cameron, this is just one more proof of Peter Oborne’s thesis stating that the British “political class” (like their counterparts in the U.S. and EU) is so insular, and completely separated from reality, that it does not matter what party they ostensibly represent. Their policies will always be guided by their dogmas, which are based on the sort of groupthink one finds at their cocktail parties.
It’s a shame the Monty Python troupe are no longer doing new work. They could have a field day with this.
As it is, we’ll just have to settle for waiting with bated breath for the next “man-caused disaster” courtesy of the Islamists which this sort of Upper-Class Twit of the Year performance is likely to encourage.
clear ether
eon
I’ve been catching reruns of Monty Python’s Flying Circus lately on IFC channel. I had the exact same thought.
Note to Western nancy-boy politicians…..put away the kneepads, and at least pretend to have a set……
Is it possible that Cameron gave the whole speech with his tongue firmly in his cheek?
His tongue was not in his cheek. I suspect his tongue was not even in his mouth.
Utterly pathetic. But not limited to just British PM. obama is just the same way.
I knew the first time i saw him that Cameron was a sellout and a suck up. He will sell out the UK to the EUdSSR, he cheerfully sold out his own party to the Liberal Democrats and he will gladly sell out whats left of the West to the muslim world. He defends Turkey which did not only staged an act of proxy aggression against Israel, but almost vetoed the recruitment of Anders Fogh Rasmussen to general secretary of NATO for no other reason than his defense of free speech in the face muslim calls for censorship during the cartoon crisis. They were given considerable concessions to forgo the veto. Important to our security? The coalition of the willing thought of Iraq as an important matter of security at the beginning of this decade and Turkey denied them to open a northern front against Saddam from turkish territory, almost like Saudi Arabia. This is not an ally, they dont share our values, Turkey should be kicked out of NATO and membership negotiations with the European Union should be abandoned.
Melanie Phillips can’t stop throwing up, and I neither can I. The UK can’t cath a break.
Prof. Rubin, did you by any chance read Melanie Phillip’s take on this?
Cameron is a moron, not a doubt. I get the feeling that there is little hope for Britain, not a day goes by without reading of some lunacy or another.
This guy is as bad as Obama & that’s pretty depressing.
I think of Margaret Thatcher – Britain’s last real leader – it’s been down-hill since.
I believe I read a commentary on his speech that suggested that this is Cameron as messenger for Obama, trying one last-ditch effort to persuade Iran not to proceed with the march to doomsday. The analysis said that all the rest was necessary window-dressing, including the stuff on Gaza. Really it’s about saying to Iran, ‘please don’t make us do this.’
Of course the Iranians will see the ‘please’ first of all and only increase their contempt for the West. The same analysis implied that Bibi probably signed off on the speech, indirectly.
I guess we’ll get through this somehow, Terry. Let’s hope Dr. Ledeen is right about what is happening in Iran, and, if it doesn’t happen fast enough, that Bibi remembers the sources of strength that have guided us throughout the ages.
Larry.
I read something of the sort but I don’t remember the details, in any case, his performance at the press conference with Obama was nauseating, of course, I always find Obama nauseating. Their attempt to show ”friendship”, congeniality, the lame attempts at humour, boy, are these two guys creeps. It was almost as sickening as the Obama/Netanyahu display of hypocrisy.
I don’t doubt the accuracy of Mr Ledeen, I just don’t think the turmoil in Iran will cause regime change nor stop the nuclear program.
There are a lot of possible scenarios in this Iranian mess, how it plays out cannot be predicted with any certainty. All that is certain is there will be war – but the how, when, who will strike first, I don’t know. Usually, you can assign a degree of probability to various scenarios, this time I have to admit, I can’t.
Agreed. Looks like the Japanese oil tanker incident may be an Iranian ‘signal’ to its enemies to stop fomenting unrest inside Iran, as they say it. I expect things will spiral out of control, one way or the other, within a few months.
Larry in the Silicon, I wish I could agree but I can’t.
Maybe the Western political class is playing a deep Machiavellian game and we the people shouldn’t distract them.
I suspect that this is exactly what our governing parasites tell each other in their echo chambers, but the verdict of history will be very different.
Of course you are right about how they look at us. Question is if the Western political classes will see a nuclear Iran as something they can live with. If they do, others will have to deal with the problem.
Feel the love. I find it interesting that Cameron makes no mention of the Kurds and of course, heaven forbid there should be ANY sunlight pointed at the Armenian genocide and Turkey’s steadfast refusal to even acknowledge the fact that it happened.
But hey, lets call Gaza a prison camp. Makes me ALL warm and fuzzy. It’s the EASY way and oh so VERY ‘fashionable’ in LOTS of circles around the world.
Where was Cameron when Eqypt held sway over Gaza for so many years prior to 1967? Was it a prison camp THEN as well? (Was he even ALIVE then?)
Where was Cameron when the Hamas led so called ‘factions’ where raining down missles on innocent Israeli civilians?
Some prison camp.
Oh and of course let’s NOT forget the fact that the UNRWA has ‘managed’ Gaza for 60 YEARS now. If it IS in fact a prison camp, the UNRWA are the prison guards not the Israelis.
What a ‘useful idiot’ he is eh?
And this guy is the conservative?
Is he trying to make Prince Chuckles look good by comparison?
I haven’t followed the story closely, but is it possible that Cameron made such a speech at least in part to suck up to what he believes is America’s “new world view”?
I think the proper phrase, straight from “Tropic Thunder,” is “the full retard.” A little un-PC though.
But I don’t think Cameron really had a choice. The financial elite don’t want Western leaders to consider their own nations’ interests first, or to suggest to the voting masses that’s their obligation.
VERY Little hope for great britain. I submit that its the result of the C of E which watered down christianity over decades and has since handed over the mantle of Christian/Britishness to secular post modern and gender neutral/multi cultural naifs. When the crown the church and the government bow at the waist to Islam the nation has clearly been gutted and its only a matter of time.
I am sure Obama has his oar in this as France granted the PLO Embassy status today.
Shame on the British what a pack of whimpy wankers.
This guy should be running NASA.
Meanwhile, Debkafile reports that a Japanese oil tanker was damaged in the gulf by what appears to be an explosion as the result of sabotage. The ship is apparently going to the UAR for repairs….
Cameron is spot on! As a conservative I’m proud of him. I wish our leaders here in America were as smart!
Well, Tony old son, I believe you underestimate how smart Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are. They are every bit the equal in smartness of this bumbling, bungling, befuddled Brit.
“Let me be clear. The Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla was completely unacceptable.”
This is your idea of a conservative?
Apparently your leaders in America ARE just as smart, only because the laws of physics prevent Obama, Bite-Me, HRC, and friends from being any dumber than this slow-learner.
“I haven’t followed the story closely, but is it possible that Cameron made such a speech at least in part to suck up to what he believes is America’s “new world view”?”
That’s nuts. Any Prime Minister carrying water for Barak Obama never should have assumed the office. Any Brit voting for such an idiot should hold his/her head in shame. And you, I think, should take some time off.
The biggest problem with leadership today, other than I see few if any real leaders as head of country, is these Western VIPs are far more concerned with being gregarious and received than they are being courageous and truthful.
I’ve often wondered if there isn’t a large but silent majority of Muslims across the world that would like to hear one western leader stand up and have the intestinal fortitude to talk about the failures of the Islamic leadership without stepping all over their religion.
Placate, appease, enable, and empower ruthless thugs is a losing proposition and a strategy guaranteed to lead to death of innocents of all sides.
Nauseating…
For some inexplicable reason, westerners melt their brain when talking in front of any Mid-Eastern country audience. They go stupid on a grand scale, regularly. It was in such a context that the US president admitted he was still a Muslim at heart. And it isn’t just now – look what the rascal Wilson allowed the Brits and French to do to the Middle East after WWI.
In order to get into the Europe Club, Turkey needs to fashion itself after Europe. Is it any more complicated than that? No, but the internal changes to return Turkey to an actually secular state are too painful for its current and likely leadership – so no EU for Turkey. It is a simple trade-off process. You would think that since Europe is filled with kaffirs, this should be no big problem and even a spiritual boon to people who believe lying to non-believers is a moral thing to do. But that level of self-discipline is evidently not there.
Turkey does not want EU membership sufficiently to pay the internal political price. Simple enough. If they ever do, they’ll be able to get it. it isn’t difficult, folks, except within internal Turkish and religious politics.
On the other hand, Cameron is now appearing to be just another one of those “want to make everyone happy” Twinkies of a PM. Good Lord, the UK needs another of those like it needs a few thousand more extreme Islamists.
Did Cameron bow to the President of Turkey? Just checking to see if his diplomatic skills are as weak-kneed as the US president’s…
Personally,I have never seen a prison camp with a mall as nice as the one that is in Gaza. They must really be treating their prisoners well.
I think you’re wrong.
Better to reach out to Turkey before it’s too late.
Like Chamberlin reached out to Hitler?
My position is somewhat more nuanced, but what would be the point of attempting to explain it to you?
A tiny bit of clue as to whether or not your position actually had anything resembling a connection with reality? That could be useful.
Another clue is him having the word “crazy” in his name without the slightest hint of irony.
I’m sorry? I’m supposed to respond positively to being compared to Chamberlain?
I think you’re the one who is a stranger to reality, habibi.
Hey, Jack Bauer, I can’t be responsible for your ignorance of Pink Floyd.
To read my screen name literally? Now THERE’S an irony in front of your nose that you can’t even grasp.
Crazy Diamond.
When You ”reach out” to Turkey, be careful they don’t bite your hand.
The time to reach out to Turkey was BEFORE Erdogan was elected. Instead, the bungling, dhimmwit Euro-morons undermined Turkey’s secular military. Idiots like Obama & Cameron as well as many others actually encourage Islamist groups. Watch, when Mubarak dies, the dhimmwit dhummies will push Egypt to be more ”democratic” – which in reality. only gives an advantage to The Muslim Brotherhood.
Terry – you and I are on the same page.
Apologies again for the ‘nuance’. Terry explains my view well.
Reaching out and bending over are two different things, CD (#23.)
What exactly do our Enlightened Ones think they are achieving with their vacuous, indiscriminate, cliche-riddled praise of people just because they happen to be Muslim? It’s not just a sign of weakness, but of appalling condescension.
We – well the EU – may have brought this on themselves. If they hadn’t been so pig-headed about Turkey entering the Union, Erdogan may have had less traction with the non-secular electorate.
Sorry, that was a bit too nuanced. Yes, yes, Chamberlain, Hitler, blah, blah.
What? You think because you know the word nuance that you’re the smartest guy in the room, that no one here can dream of keeping up with you?
The irony is I’m actually on your side.
So… anyway… you think that citing Chamberlain is nuanced? Please. Hey, I apologize for having the temerity to use the word ‘nuanced’. Won’t happen again. I’m cowed in the face of your spittle-flecked indignation.
“nuanced” — that’s like when you shtoop your wife’s best friend and then say to her that, “well, honey, the explanation is nuanced” (implication being that she just wouldn’t understand, the poor girl). Yes, we think we understand what your adjective implies. We do speak the same language you know (shocker!)
Schtupp.
The best lack all conviction
And the worst are full of passionate intensity.
Albion, RIP
As if to counter your points, Dr. Rubin, today in India, David Cameron lashed out at Pakistan for it’s governmental support of Islamic terror against India and in Afghanistan against British troops.
Of course, Britain has very strong commercial, military, and cultural ties to India, and Pakistan is the only enemy that India faces.
Pakistan is thus more a direct enemy of Britain than Turkey and that may be why the British Foreign Office advised Cameron to hammer Pakistan and make nice to Turkey.
British foreign policy is always conducted with British interests being the priority, thus I must assume that there is a very good reason for Cameron to cozy up to Turkey while telling the Pakistanis to buzz off.
The only thing that comes to mind is, a lot of Arab money is parked inside of Ole Blighty. So, even though the Turks are not Arabs (at least, I don’t think they are), there is this matter of religion.
What shape would Ole Blighty be in if the countries which are majority Muslim, pulled their money from Albion? Remember, Ike threatened to do that to Great Britain in the Suez Crisis, mainly in reaction to the dithering of Eden, and the French Premier.
The stupid! It burns!
Thank you for setting the record stright.
Come on…. we all know on both sides of the Atlantic why Cameron is pandering to Ankara. It’s because he wants to be buddies with BHO’B. Same reason he said what he did about Gaza being a prison camp.
By all means lambast the trembling Cameron, but do it to Obama, too. We’ll take Cameron in hand at our end, here in the UK. You should understand this, very clearly. Most Brits ( quite a few of whom are Jews) are extemely alarmed about his public support for Turkey entering the European Union. The last thing Europe needs is Turkey in the EU, leaving the door open for other Islamic countries to do the same. Their thousands of fanatical Jihadis (they make Hamas look like boy scouts, incidentally) are waiting in the wings in places like Bosnia for the go ahead to blow up infidels, thanks to mass immigration, open borders and multiculturalism.
I wouldn’t trust Cameron or his Coalition with an old ladies’ tea party.This is one reason why I didn’t vote for him.
When are political asshats like Cameron gong to pick up a Koran and read it. Perhaps even take the time to learn some real History of Islam and it’s 1,400 years of terrorizing kafirs.
Until the UK has a leader with “balls” they are going to continue down the slippery slope of acceding to Sharia Law. Fools!
“Balls” may be over-rated
Britain’s last great leader, Margaret Thatcher, didn’t have any – in the literal sense – but certainly showed moral fiber in a way that had been unknown in Britain since Winston Churchill. It has certainly not been in evidence since her departure from the office of Prime Minister.
If I had my way, I’d replace Cameron immediately with Anthony Daniels (the real name of Theodore Dalyrmple). Now there’s a man with moral sense! But, alas, he shows no apparent interest in holding political office….
30. jgreene “When are political asshats like Cameron gong to pick up a Koran and read it.”
When are “asshats” (whatever that is) like jgreene going to pick up their own Bible and read it? They’ll find all the hatreds, stonings, etc., that they excoriate in the Koran. I especially commend Deuteronomy to them.
Like this Joseph the Christian bigot?
Deuteronomy 30:19-20
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Intellectual dishonesty seems to be your best trait.
Joseph. Read the Koran!
I didn’t vote for him either. In fact, hardly anyone voted for him. Half the Tory votes were cast by people holding their noses. The problem we have is that we have no choice at the moment. All our politicians are members of the Guardian Reading Classes. How to get them off this we have yet to work out.
Michael, vote UKIP, for the love of God.
What makes you think I didn’t?
Dmgold…. whoa….. who are a load of wimpy wankers? What are you Yanks doing to get your own house in order? You elected an Islamist sympathiser to the top office in your country, for starters. CAIR and other Islamic groups say “Boo!” and you jump out of your skins. Dearborn, Michigan is like another Ryadh, according to what I’ve heard, so tidy up your own back yard before you criticise us Brits for being wimps.
You Yanks should count yourselves lucky you have the legislation that allows you the right to TRUE free speech, and it’s enshrined in your Constitution. If it wasn’t, Pamela Geller (bless her cotton socks) and Robert Spencer (bless his cotton socks) would be behind bars by now. There’d be adverts telling Islam is the religion of peace on your buses and taxis – and anybody saying different would end up in jail. Us Brits do the best we can with the means we’ve got. Not only do we appear on blogs like this where we get insulted – we give as good as we get. So, in the American vernacular – can it.
No it’s the Left and enough folks who bought into the ‘moderate’ candidate Obama. Percentage wise not nearly as high as in the UK. Since Bush was Hitler to you, causing Blair to be a “poodle dog” and anti-Americanism becoming just about the norm, everything going down concerning our two nations is nationalistic with people like you. Pure defensive pride.
BTW most “Yanks” who post in Pajamas Media did not vote for him. And most are plenty critical over our country’s own faulty actions.
Get over being insulted. All any American has to do is read the blogs on your BBC, Guardian, Independent etc. and find a load of disgust and scapegoat blame for your lack of self-esteem and identity pointing fingers in this direction. Talk about not owning up. You’re no longer Great Britain, instead the generation of Great Victim.
Are there any Brits out there other than Melanie Phillips who have the balls to stand up to the Islamists, without blaming America, Americans, Bush-Cheney et al and now laughably BHO. Cameron is Anti-Israel plain and simple. I apologised for my wide brush on the issue of British anti-semitism in the past. Not today. Jew hating Right Left and Center here! I’m stuck in the UK. “Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right. Here I am stuck in the middle with..no Jews!”
I was a regular in Tim Montgomerie’s ConservativeHome since it’s inception, I believe the largest blog of it’s kind going for the UK. There’s a lot of anti-Semitic sentiment but also staunch support of Israel with folks well aware of the hate aimed at Jews across the globe. I stopped going only recently after years because of some broad brush criticism again aimed in this direction while I was simultaneously watching our gulf become polluted and peoples lives impacted.
The reason I have participated is because of those members who are indeed Brits, with more traditional values and conviction, quite a number understanding the threats to liberty. I suggest you give it a try. You may get frustrated and angry but you’ll also find like-minded men and woman of honor.
That’s what you get from a Tory.
This is just the clear expression of internalized self hatred, from 50 years of Leftwing and Third World demonization of white European Christian peoples and countries. Bowing and scraping to Islamists and Muslims….begging for dhimmitude, to relieve you of the burden of existence….where you can be properly punished. White guilt.
Mass immigration of “the Other.” Empowering minorities in your institutions. Abandoning your Christian faith.
These are the times that try men’s souls.
This far too young British Prime Minister is not fit for the job. Appeasement of the Muslim world never works and those who bash Israel pay dearly in moral terms. Where is the Archbishop of Canterbury? Can he not talk sense to this disgraceful politician?
Now now, Steevo – don’t get your undies in a knot. We don’t all use the despicable Guardian and its ilk like Bibles in the UK. Who’s a victim, pray? Get over being insulted, or do you like spending your time on blogs having tantrums? You Americans are victims, too. We have Cameron and Nick the Prick, you have Obama. In that, we’re alike – so Mr American Pot, don’t call the British kettle black, eh?
And didn’t anybody ever teach you that personal attacks (the lack of self-esteem cr*p) don’t constitute useful debate? By the way, what happened to Dmgold, or are you some sort of tag-team?
Say what? You are one twisted Brit with childish name calling in deep denial. In desperate projection mode here painting us as whimpy. Wishful compensation.
Those high participant blogs, some of the most popular in the UK, pervade with prejudice and scapegoat blame at America. Like with the greatest man-made disaster in our history and so very many of were more upset because the guy in the Oval Office said British instead of Beyond Petroleum. The same guy of which it’ll always be fact, the overwhelming consensus of Brits and western Euros wanted our mister change even more than here.
As an American-Israeli with experience in both countries, and several months spent in England as well, I kind of agree with you. I don’t know how you feel about the EDL, but it seems to me that this is, overall, a brave organization defending its nation’s values and heritage. I am not at all sure that such an organization would arise in the US. The KKK is not the EDL. The Tea Parties are nice but still kind of goofy and inchoate. For most Americans still, the Islamic threat, 911 notwhithstanding, Fort Hood and Time Square aside, is still somewhat ethereal, dreamy, a debating point.
For Israelis and many Euros, it is not. It’s also undeniable that the US voted in this pro-Islam figure without – as far as I can tell – legal qualification for his position.
We will see how the Iran thing shakes out. We will see how many missiles land in Israel, how many infiltrators, how much stress for a tried nations vs. what will happen in the US.
As for me, I haven’t given up on the British. I read enough about WWII. Now it’s true I wasn’t born yet, and it’s true that Cameron is a disaster. But I have not given up on the British. Moreover, I think Steevo needs to relax.
You appear quite selective. Don’t know how long you’ve lived here but the KKK is all but a relic and no comparison. The EDL has how much members?… 300 according to spokesman Trevor Kelway. You would be more to the point using the BNP, right? If you don’t know of the anti-Semitic sentiment in the UK and western Europe, you’re ignorant. If you think the danger of Islam is less in the UK and more in the US I’d say for now you are in the minority of opinion. The Tea Parties as “goofy and inchoate” when they are the greatest threat to Obama and Democrat control… well, your capacity here, period, is limited to put it polite.
I love bashing Cameron like the next man, but I do think you are missing the point of this speech, and of this global Cameron tour.
Cameron isn’t a light-weight, like Obama. When he travels abroad he has a plan, and that is to advance Britain’s national interests. God knows why Obama travels – except to enlighten the world about his brilliance.
The speech to Turkey was an anti-EU speech. Cameron was telling the Germans and the French that they either allow Turkish membership of the EU, or Britain will revive its containment policy with the old Ottamon Empire.
What he said to Pakistan a day later was spot on. “Stop spreading terror, India is right to not trust you.” What has Obama said on this? Obama treats friends, like India, with contempt. Please don’t diss our PM when you’ve unleashed a foreign policy disaster like Obama on the world.
Cameron is a pragmatist. If we cant unpick the conflict between the Islamic and non-Islamic world, what will be our human future? Why shoud Turkey guard Europe’s flank and yet be treated with disdain? Does Rubin not recognise that Turkey may have national interests of its own.
I think this is what is so depressing about this article. It doesn’t recognise that nations have different interests. A statesman has to deal with this reality and do what is possible. By not even recognising the conflicting interests of European states, and of Turkey, the writer of this piece embarrasses the host site.
He needs an editor.
Now that Turkey no longer has access to Israeli armaments, for obvious reasons, Cameron is exploiting an opportunity for large scale weapons sales.
http://blog.taragana.com/politics/2010/07/26/business-defence-deals-top-british-pms-special-visit-to-india-50842/
Cameron is on a global sales mission for British arms manufacturers. And getting his hands on some of that Israeli gear still in Turkish hands, so it can be dissected at home, only sweetens the pot.
BHO is closing a $30B deal with the Saudis. Cameron is green with envy.
Damn morality- there is money to be made.
More times than not its all about the money.
“Finally, remember that Cameron is a Conservative, the successor of Winston Churchill. That’s how deep the appeasement disease has penetrated the Western ruling class.”
Remember that Neville Chamberlain was also a Conservative….
Barry- the expression, from Tropic Thunder, is “going the full retard”. Take your politically correct mealy mouthedness elsewhere.
George, can I be frank? I mean, can I let you in on a secret without you going nuts? There are really no rational differences between the interests of States.
While we compete for resources and lament no practical framework for international justice when one rogue state screws somebody, altruistic cooperation is key to the world’s survival. Cooperation relies on altruistic punishment not hopes or delusions. Cameron was quick to deliver this logic to Pakistan as he talked about minimum requirements of joining the advanced world. Any association with terror is unacceptable. Too bad he instead chose not to say the same thing to a country already a NATO member wishing entry to the EU while they duplicitously enable the greatest threat to the West -Iran. Perhaps your PM should have asked Erdogan directly if he thought Valley of the Wolves was blood libel and a common value indicator for EU entrance.
Common morality, human rights and rejection of terrorism and oppression ARE the shared interest of nations unless they are up to no good. Even Russia, China and the West are moving slowly to this convergence.
Turkey played what role in the two Great Wars? What casualties have they sustained in Afghanistan and why? Who kept the Red Army off the streets of Ankara? Why would you think Turkey these days will protect Europe’s flank when they refuse to shoot at Muslims? Isn’t what you call divergent national interests what others rightly call damn unfriendly and ultimately quite negative on the West’s interests? Chevez just pursuing divergent national interests, Assad?
The best way to “unpick” the clash of civilizations is to negotiate with the moderate Muslim nations in the fashion Rubin suggests. Without common criteria, there will be little cooperation and as divergent interests become threats exposed, biological behavior will kick in.
I haven’t given up on the Brits yet. Maybe Cameron was just bettering up Erdogan for BP contracts. Maybe they just haven’t understood that today’s radical Islamist is yesterday’s fascist. I hope they come to their sense before its too late. The transformation is as Hitchens says……
Whether Obama or Cameron understand that or not…
Max NYC
Now we understand why Obama’s girl, Anita Dunn, whose husband is Obama’s personal lawyer, went over to England to work on Cameron’s campaign. Looks like another snooker job done on the populace. Cameron sounds like he and Barry are bussom buddies in their love of Islam and its radical adherents. Good luck Europe.
As Winston Churchill was rumored to say to an aid who was about to pay Hitler a visit (pre-1939), “Tell him that anti-Semitism is a good opener, but a poor finisher.” As a Jew it’s taken me a while to appreciate that remark, but now I very much do, fully. I think Cameron might well be told the same — it’s about at his level on intellectual understanding despite his Eaton education (which is why Churchill phrased it the way he did for Hitler — to ensure that it be understood).
What a pair we have in Obama and Cameron, kissing the Muslims asses. It all most wants to make me turn French!
Well, now we have the Bobsey Twins, i.e., Obama and Cameron. Looks like it will be a contest to see who can bow the deepest and/or who can bend over the farthest for our enemies!!! How disgusting these two “Heads of State” are!! Too bad they don’t have some class and b…s like Netanyahu has. They are both a disgrace to the countries they represent!!
Well, now we have the Bobsey Twins, i.e., Obama and Cameron. I guess it will be a contest to see which of them can bow the deepest and/or bend over the farthest, for our enemies. What a disgrace these two are to the countries they represent. Bring back Reagan and Thatcher!!
About time we got a politician who tells it how it is.
He called Gaza a big prison camp.
Its got a big fence around it. Israel controls what goes in AND WHAT COMES OUT. Israel routinely executes people in Gaza (including famously head shots at old ladies waving white flags during their last incursion). Israeli guards shoot at people attempting to leave.
What part of that doesn’t sound like a prison camp?
Credit to Cameron for telling it how it is.
Tommy, One picture worth ten thousand words-
http://www.bivouac-id.com/2009/06/16/attention-photos-insoutenables-gaza-un-camp-de-concentration-a-ciel-ouvert/
Larry in the silicon wrote
“As an American-Israeli with experience in both countries, and several months spent in England as well, I kind of agree with you. I don’t know how you feel about the EDL, but it seems to me that this is, overall, a brave organization defending its nation’s values and heritage.”
I’m sorry, but you don’t know what you are talking about.
Membership of the EDL is largely ex (and current) National Front. They same guys who beat up jews, blacks, chinese, and asians (of every religion) in past lives. I know – one of my friends (of Chinese origin) was badly beaten when he was cornered by some people on their way to an EDL protest.
Their current obsession with Islam is just another attempt to pick some kind of popularist issue (it might just as well be jewish bankers).
The EDL are closely linked to football hooliganism of course.
I find it rather distressing that jews are now so keen to jump onto something that is casting muslims in the role of shady conspirators – a role traditionally used to target jews with discrimination and violence. Perhaps you should research what mainstream jewish groups think about the EDL (clue: they aren’t very keen on them!).
Tommy, even white Euros have a right to existence. Not just Jews in a Jewish State of Israel, where non Jews are second class citizens.
You may want to look into the government of Israel, and its coalition members, before you go pointing fingers at the EDL.
But alas…
Tommy undoubtedly has no problem with Hamas. Or if he does, it is no better or worse than the Israeli government. Does Cameron find the Gaza sanctions and containment illegal? If so he should send the British Fleet to break the embargo of materials that can be used for weapons. Please tell us all what prison in the world looks like Gaza? Rikers? Tommy fails to mention that Hamas blows up its own electrical and municipal facilities supplied by Israel to create hardship that conforms to the narrative they’re selling. If you doubt that Google AP. Remember when Carter visited during the US primary?
Of course what Tommy says is such nonsense. There was no embargo before Palestinians voted in a terror group who refused to renew the ceasefire and started firing missiles into Israel. You want to debate that Tommy? You want to debate the tons of materials smuggled into Gaza?
Your depiction of Israeli behavior is BS. You single in on alleged events during their mandatory incursion to stop missile attacks and intentionally leave out all the terrible behavior including starting a war by attacking Israeli civilians. Hamas executes suspected informers and Fatah in the streets. They hold children as shields and launch strikes from public buildings booby-trapping houses with Palestinians inside. They ban women from operating motorcycles and subject there children to Hate TV where they are taught how to strap on bombs. They have refused to implement the basic requirements of negotiating in good faith and have a charter calling for the destruction of Israel. Still, many Palestinians and other Muslim refugees risk their lives trying to GET INTO ISRAEL. Now fancy that Tommy.
Of course I don’t waste my breath on Thomas, but rather seek to keep the record straight. Cameron tells it like it is? Ha… Today he is blasted for his remarks towards Pakistan in which he explains what requirements there are for nations to join the ranks of advanced nations. He forgot all that when bending over for Erdogan or calling Gaza a prison (of Israel’s making).
You do not understand “Perfidious Albion”
Pity Turkey, again.
“The PA’s glorification of suicide bombers and other mega-terrorists by naming public squares and public events after these “martyrs” is as much of an obstacle, if not more so, as West Banks settlements, the vast majority of which Israel repeatedly has offered to dismantle as part of comprehensive peace plans rejected by the PA and its leadership.
And whatever differences may exist between Lieberman’s approach to the peace process in comparison with Barak and Netanyahu’s strategies, they pale by comparison between the “mixed signals” being sent to the international community by Abbas’s PA and Hamas, which rules nearly half of what a prospective Palestinian state might look like. Hamas, after all, vows never to abandon its objective to destroy Israel — all of it.” Leo Rennert 7/28/10
Oh dear, sorry Ruth, but the archbishop of Canterbury is a firm proponent of Sharia law. He is a full-blown dhimmi who has ousted most high-profile traditional advocates of the church in the UK.
I always wondered why religious chaps were referred to as primates. This guy sort of explains it.
Kees, I think Argentina last used that term describing England during the Falkland War. Now are you referring to Cameron’s behavior as some replay of England’s betrayal of the French revolution (thankfully so) or how England is regarded by Muslims and Turkey these days?
In WW2 Mussolini used the term against England who battled Italy’s claim to Africa. By the time Allies were invading Italy, Mussolini was ranting against the “Jewish Conspiracy” that allegedly was providing the West with increasing industrial strength (and of course the bomb). Please note the connection between fascism and antisemitism.
Now was electing al-Husayni as the Grand Mufti in the first place or the failure to arrest him in Egypt after he fled France in 1947 just a year after his days with Hitler ended was Perfidious Albion? Perhaps this foggy period of time escapes the English history books and clouds the transition of Nazi and Italian fascism into the virulent Muslim antisemitism that had previously been lacking to a great degree in the ME. That the English embrace any part of it is indeed ironic, don’t you think?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
Now where do you think Arafat and Saddam came from?
Last, the connection between Hitler and the Mufti’s time back in Egypt after WW2 where he set up today’s Muslim Brotherhood is quite clear today:
“Following are excerpts from a religious program hosted by Egyptian cleric Hussam Fawzi Jabar, which aired on Al-Nas TV on July 11, 2010:
Hussam Fawzi Jabar: This is the nature of the Jews. By nature, they abhor keeping their commitments. By nature, they hate peace. By nature, they love treachery, betrayal, deception, killing, and blood. This is their nature.
[...]
It is very sad to see some of our own people, who speak our own tongue, try to convince their peoples that the Jews are peace-loving, that a solution to the satisfaction of both parties can be reached with them. I say that whoever says this and tries to convince others should either deny what is said in the Koran and the Sunna, and accept what the Jews say as truth, or else deny what the Jews say and accept what is said in the Koran and the Sunna. There is no third alternative….
[...]
One of the most amazing things I have read is that Hitler said: “I could have annihilated all the Jews of the world, but I left some of them, so that you would understand why I did this to them.” Hitler was right to say what he said and to do what he did to the Jews….
[...]
In Communist and atheist Russia, they would put the Muslims into meat grinders, and they would come out from the other side as minced meat or cold cuts. All this because [the Russians] believe in a religion other than Islam.”
Memri, perhaps you Brits should read Memri sometime…..maybe Cameron should as well….
This isn’t about Jews, mind you. It is about failing to see past the PC blinders at the on-coming traffic. Americans can be said these days to be lacking the same common sense and awareness of history. A convergence of idiocy is the last thing the West needs now…..
Maxtrue,
Ironic indeed
It is a term that has been proven over many, many decades (centuries?) and I would like to add one more, aimed at the writer of this post: Caveat emptor.
Nothing a Brit says has the implicit “from the bottom of my heart” attached, even if he says “from the bottom of my heart”
“Full Idiot” indeed, not to be acted upon, just words.
Full disclosure: I was born in South Africa under British Rule, or such.
As to your second question: The Brits: See above.
Well Kees, true, but only in the enabling part of what should have been squashed.
Hitler’s and Mussolini’s racism was the pathology the Mufti expanded upon his own, not the Brits. Churchill in fact warned of the Nazi influence infecting the ME as they fled South at the War’s end, but the French enabled the Mufti too. Eisenhower imagine Sunnis joining the West and was no friend to Israel. Patton said after the War, he had fought the wrong enemy.
I hear rumors that at night is you listen closely, you can hear Sir Winston spinning in his grave at St. Martin’s Church……
“Eisenhower imagined”
“if you listen closely…..”
sorry for the typos.
Maxtrue,
You have a very vivid imagination indeed.
Stop smoking whatever or pass it out freely.
England is a spent power. Rotting on the inside. What else would you expect??
Kees, please clarify what part was imaginative. Working backwards —
1. Read Patton’s diaries (and boy was he a racist, great general or not) or just Google.
2. Eisenhower’s strategy was quite clear. This attitude continued under Republican leadership all the way to Kissinger who explained to Iraqi leadership Wednesday, December 17, 1975, 12:20 p.m. – 1:18 p.m. that although American public opinion supported the existence of Israel, that it be no more than a Lebanon was fine with the Nixon administration
3. While Churchill had some stange ideas about Jews (and Muslims) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/uncovered-churchills-warnings-about-the-hebrew-bloodsuckers-439772.html, he spoke to the House of Commons on May 22, 1939 rejecting the White Paper, aware of the Axis broadcasts which had begun 24/7 in the Middle East. His views on Islam are pretty clear as well as his awareness of the migration of Nazis during the final stages of the War.
4. The French role in the Mufti’s escape is Googable.
5. Please show me the Mein Kamph of the English or the drivel of Mussolini as English op-ed. No matter the role of British colonization in creating militancy, if you compare;
“Arabs and Moslems, sons of the East, this menace threatens your very lives, endangers your beliefs and aims at your wealth. No trace of you will remain. Your doom is sealed. It were better if the earth opened and engulfed everybody; it were better if the skies fell upon us, bringing havoc and destruction; all this, rather than the sun of Islam should set and the Koran perish…Stir up wars and revolutions, stand fast against the aggressors, let your hearts, afire with faith, burst asunder! Advance your armies and drive out the menace.” Nazi Propaganda circa 1940 (Stokes)
with today’s Islamic propaganda over at Memri, you can see the connection between European fascism and contemporary Islamic radicals. There are a number of books on this subject and the IDS neostrasserism of today finds a similarly ironic relationship in a brotherhood of the mutually exclusive.
So who’s smoking what?
Please delete the comment by ruth tenne (no 35).
It was written by an impsoter who keeps misusing my name in oreder to smear my name and my campaign agaisnt Israel’s policies towards the Palestinian. I am a committed supporter of the Palestinian cause and believe in a multi-ethnic democratic sociey in which Muslims have a great part to play in the UK and other Western countries.
Ruth Tenne