Immigration What? Senate Steers Back to Gun Control
Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), on the other hand, was eager to tangle with LaPierre.
LaPierre encouraged a focus on getting criminals off the streets and enforcing gun laws already on the books. “My problem with background checks is, you’re never going to get criminals to go through universal background checks,” he said. “I mean they’re — all the law abiding people, you’ll create an enormous federal bureaucracy, unfunded, hitting all of the little people in the country will have to go through it, pay the fees, pay the taxes. We don’t even prosecute anybody right now who goes through the system we have.”
“So, we’re going to make all those law abiding people go through the system, and then we aren’t going to prosecute any of the bad guys if they do catch one. And none of it makes any sense in the real world. We have 80,000 police families in the NRA. We care about safety. We’ll support what works.”
“Mr. LaPierre, that’s the point. The criminals won’t go to purchase the guns because there will be a background check. We’ll stop them from the original purchase. You miss that point completely,” snapped Durbin, sparking a smattering of applause in the hearing room, gavel-banging from Leahy, and an argument with LaPierre.
“The biggest problem in Chicago… we are awash in guns,” Durbin argued. “The confiscation of guns per capita in Chicago is six times the number of New York City. We have guns everywhere. And some believe the solution to this is more guns. I disagree.”
Durbin asked LaPierre if he felt Americans needed guns to protect themselves from the government.
“Senator, I think without any doubt, if you look at why our founding fathers put it there, they had lived under the tyranny of King George and they wanted to make sure that these free people in this new country would never be subjugated again and have to live under tyranny,” LaPierre said.
“I also think, though, that what people all over the country fear today is being abandoned by their government,” he continued. “If a tornado hits, if a hurricane hits, if a riot occurs that they’re gonna be out there alone. And the only way they’re gonna protect themselves in the cold and the dark, when they’re vulnerable, is with a firearm. And I think that indicates how relevant and essential the Second Amendment is in today’s society to fundamental human survival.”
Baltimore County Police Chief James Johnson, who chairs the National Law Enforcement Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence, called that view “scary, creepy.”
“And it’s simply just not based on logic,” he added. “Certainly, law enforcement across this nation is well-prepared to deal with any natural or man-made disaster that will occur.”
“I can’t either. I can’t relate to the need of that man in Aurora, Colorado, to have a 100-round drum, 100 cartridges,” Durbin said.
Kopel told Durbin his line of questioning was off-base since senators are talking about banning much smaller magazines.
“It’s about saving lives with ordinary magazines. Hundred magazines are novelties that are not used by police officers or hunters or most other people,” Kopel said. “But what you’re talking about banning, senator, is normal magazines.”
“I think if we follow Senator Schumer’s approach and say we’re gonna follow what the District of Columbia v. Heller Supreme Court decision says, what that tells you is the core of the Second Amendment is the firearms and accessories that are commonly owned by law abiding people for legitimate purposes,” he said.
When Graham asked if it is constitutional to cap a magazine at 10 rounds versus 15, Kopel responded, “Ten is plainly unconstitutional, because, as I was trying to explain to Senator Durbin, magazines of up to 19 are common on semiautomatic handguns.”
Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) panned Republican responses that the solution to reducing mass killings was broader than gun control and included everything from mental health to violent video games.
“Not including guns when discussing mass killings is like not including cigarettes when discussing lung cancer,” Schumer said. “…It is now settled law that the government is never going to take away America’s guns. Progressives need not to accept this decision, but to endorse it. We’ve got to follow it, not just de jour, but de facto. You can’t argue for an expansive reading of amendments like the First, Fourth and Fifth, but see the Second Amendment through the pinhole of saying it only affects militias.”
“At the same time, those on the pro-gun side must recognize no amendment is absolute …Now, at the moment, right now, as we meet here today, I am having productive conversations with colleagues on both sides of the aisle, including a good number with high NRA ratings. And I’m hopeful that we are close to having legislation we can introduce.”
It remains to be seen if any of those Republicans involved in such a deal would be those sitting on the Judiciary Committee.
“It would be my preference if we could find a way to put an end to events like this without doing violence to the Constitution and also without leaving law-abiding citizens more vulnerable to crime,” said Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah).
“Anything that falls short of serious examination and discussion is just window dressing, just symbolism over substance,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas). “I have a hard time telling my constituents in Texas that Congress is looking at passing a whole raft of new laws, when the laws that we currently have on the books are so woefully unenforced.”
“Above all, we should not rush to pass legislation that will not reduce mass killings. Banning guns based on their appearance does not make sense. The 1994 assault weapon ban did not stop Columbine. The Justice Department found the ban ineffective. Scholars have indicated that refining or expanding such legislation will not cut gun violence,” said Ranking Member Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa).
“We hear that no one needs to carry larger magazines than those that hunters used to shoot deer, but an attacking criminal, unlike a deer, shoots back.”






Here is an excellent point against gun control from …Chicago Tribune:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/chi-gun-control-and-the-vermont-paradox-20130130,0,5059819.column
The fact that is hard for many people to grasp is that it doesn’t matter much how easy it is to get a gun if the people who get them are law-abiding. The danger comes when criminals get guns. But the people most affected by gun control laws are the people who pose the lowest threat.
Pat Leahy probably knows that.
Hi Walt,
These are Political Wedge issues. Nothing more, nothing less.
Gabby Giffords certainly has my best wishes, but how does getting shot make someone on expert on gun control?
She also had surgery so I suppose that qualifies her to be a surgeon.
In reality she is nothing but a prop. She might as well be a potted plant.
This world would be so much less fun without FC!
No, no, not guns, FC. She is now an expert on knives.
I did not see the confab, but did our side have an testimony by citizes who used guns to prevent crime to them or their property? If not then once again, the GOP shows it really is the stupid party. For every whinning marxist, we should have a brave American supporting our side.
Democrats for tyranny… it’s for “social justice,” and the children (plus Gabby Giffords)!!
Gabby needs to have her head examined. She is talking crazy stuff.
Marco Rubio is now calling amnesty, ‘earn-esty, so I am wondering when he will officially change his name from Marco Rubio to Marco Orwell.
Will the ending of Latino Affirmative Action be a part of the comprehensive immigration reform. Or will these millions of new citizens who disrespected US law and sovereignty be preferentially promoted up the power structures of our institutions. They and their children will get in state tuition and legal discrimination to put them and there children in the seats of our universities, that we do not have even an equal shot at.
This is full on invasion and colonization.
Of course it is and our government has surendered. These is the same kind of population bomb that islam has been using in Europe. There saying is, “In 2030 we take over.” Well, same thing here, because those actual numbers are more like 70-80 MILLION illegals are in this country. If those numbers are on the low side it’s only because the economy is in the crapper.
We’ve already lost this war.
My Mauser will harvest all the AR16s and M4s I may wish to pick up off the ground. Bans or no bans I will endeavor to survive their NWO. Molotov cocktails, the ultimate weapon of small scale mass destruction. Save a few wine bottles, rags, and keep a gallon of gasoline on hand.
Of course the police chief’s view are not worth anything. All police chiefs are political appointees and are only interested in kissing up to those who can fire them for political reasons.
The police unions are interested in keeping their jobs and pensions. Any self-defense capabilities by the citizenry reduces their importance…if only very slightly. Let’s face it, the police are far better at issuing traffic and parking tickets than they are at preventing murders or serious assaults.
The police are best at showing up after the fact, to put you in a body bag. Sheriff Clarke, in Milwaukee had it right. Buy a gun, get some training, and take responsibility for protecting yourself. If the worst should happen, it will be sudden, and demand an immediate counter response.
You know, Kelly and Giffords speak of being gun owners , so my question Marky Poo is , what’s capacity of your magazines? If larger than your new masters demand, are you willing to , seriously be the example and downgrade? No? Didn’t think so. And one more thing, Marky Poo, I’d almost take your “Grassroots” foundation semi seriously if you weren’t using Obama/Biden talking points, word for word.
Durbin is a classless swine
Baltimore County Police Chief James Johnson looked everyone there in the eye and told a whopper of a lie… he said 40% of the gun purchasers in this country intentionally avoid backround checks. Last I heard, it was against the law to lie to Congress in a hearing, at least that’s what they told the major league baseball players a couple of years ago. Yet the anti-gun / anti-2nd Amendment police chief didn’t blink or hesitate in the telling of his lie. 40%… a rather unbelievable number to me, I would like to see where he came up with it, or if he pulled it out of thin air, a trait common to the left. As a retired police officer, I was disgusted and ashamed of his performance, and damn glad I never worked for him.
Scott,
I had the same impression.
That 40% number is from a stat that figures that that amount of transfered guns (not necessarily “sales”) are in the form of inheritance or gifts to family memebers.
Just a totally bogus scenario.
The Emperor’s court favorites, zeke and techno haven’t returned after I mentioned 3d printers and they admitted gun bans don’t work. Hmmmm…
Here is another tragedy, and the guy doesn’t waste time to use it for his political goal:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/17904432-418/obama-praying-for-hadiyas-family-mccarthy-pledges-to-find-killer.html
They should have started all this talk about guns from the community organizer’s neighborhood.
It’s like a Orgasmic Orgy of Far Left Policy Goals.
The police chief from Baltimore is full of s**t. Does he not remember Katrina and how the local police treated law abiding citizens? These were people sitting on their roof tops for several days waiting for rescue when gangs of Black thugs looking for money and food started to row around in boats attacking these poor people. Then the New Orleans PD threatened these same people and confiscated their guns and then LEFT them on their roof tops unarmed! The federal courts later ruled that what the police did was unconstitutional but the damage was done to the people’s trust in their government. During national crisis who knows what a local PD will do or decree. This is why we have the 2nd amendment to protect us from our government!
You make an excellent point Inspectorudy, What happened in New Orleans should
definitly be brought up. Another thing is that our Founders main intention for
the second ammendment was for the people to defend our freedoms from a tyrannical
government such as we now have. And if they want to talk about about Gabby Giffords, bring up the real target who is dead – Judge Rolls and the case he was on. If they want to bring up the movie theatre and the Newtown shooters, ask why
the massive cover up and all the unanswered questions and tell them that is the
government we fear, one that will slaughter children for thier evil ends.
And how about doing a backround check on Bari Shabazz Hussein Soebarkah ?
Golly, we should be like New Orleans… free phones for everybody! (Liberal thinking.)
These days I think a lot about what was going through the minds of the men of Lexington and Concord in 1775 and wonder if I’m thinking what they were.
Molan Labe… not much ever changes.
It’s not about guns, it’s about control.
Its unfortunate that no one had the fortitude to explain the 2nd in raw terms as the guarantor of all the other rights, even the last redoubt of our form of government when and if the people in government should ever conspire to usurp powers not delegated to them by hook or crook. It is unfortunate that we let “shall. ot be infringed” become an embarrassement to utter in the very chambers of government charged with protecting the right.
The fight has to be bare knuckled or it will be lost, piecemeal.
Regarding the esteemed police chief–Law enforcement can’t keep 12 million people from just waltzing across the border. They can’t keep people from ever breaking into homes, right now. You’re telling me somehow they are going to magically stop any badness from happening–at all–in a more serious siutation? Please. He just wants a passive citizenry. He is not taking responsible, mature yeomen citizens into account as stakeholders, and as his equals.
“Not including guns when discussing mass killings is like not including cigarettes when discussing lung cancer,” Schumer said. “…It is now settled law that the government is never going to take away America’s guns. Progressives need not to accept this decision, but to endorse it. We’ve got to follow it, not just de jour, but de facto. You can’t argue for an expansive reading of amendments like the First, Fourth and Fifth, but see the Second Amendment through the pinhole of saying it only affects militias.”
Hoist on previous petards, and I have no trust in you. Especially given the police chief above. Drop dead.
We just had His Almightiness, the Bloomberg, flat out reject the help of the National Guard because the only ones he wanted around with guns were the cops. Spare me. You guys do not trust the people in the mass, and therefore will make subjects of all in the particular.
Schumer will continue to pretend he has acquiesced in the Heller decision, the better to reassure supporters of the 2nd amendment while they chip away at its application, until it can be arranged to appoint another liberal justice or two, then Shezzam! the 2nd amendment is about state militias after all. What do you know about that? Just as we thought all along.
This is making me so mad… “The criminals won’t go to purchase the guns because there will be a background check. We’ll stop them from the original purchase. You miss that point completely,” snapped Durbin” Really?!?! Do they watch movies, ever? The ones that showing HOW criminals buy guns? From the trunk of a black market dealer. I leaved through the turmoil of the economic crisis in Russia in 1991-1998. That’s who had guns during those years, criminals. They had no problem whatsoever finding ones. It’s low abiding citizens who were totally unprotected and defenseless. Do they do ANY research there? I am just speechless…
I feel truly sorry for Gabby Giffords, sorry because she got shot and sorry because the left has turned her into their “dancing bear”.
They trot her out when there is a gun grab issue and they trot her out at big events like the DNC but otherwise its back into the cage and forgotten until the next time they want to trot her out.
Excellent! This is the MO of the left and some how it works. They are all about emotion. Either the American public really is galatically stupid or they are imcomprehensibly ignorant to believe the left but they do.
The question I have for our side is how come for every Gifford or child puppet they use, we do not have a witness for our side?
I don’t think Gabby will ever fill the Brady’s shoes. I saw the Dianne Sawyer interview. Gabby can memorize a few lines but she can’t complete a sentence on her own off the cuff. Somebody has to say it. Given that little contretemps with her speech therapist’s notes being passed off as hers, I’m pretty sure she cannot write either. She can only be trotted out to smile and speak a few words with her husband finishing her sentences. It ain’t politically-correct but “potted plant” is accurate.
They are absolutely setting the stage for the UN Small Arms Treaty. How do we fight a Senate and Administration that will force that down our throats, trumping the second amendment?
Choose Your Own Crime Stats
An interesting look at Crime Stats in the United States using data from the FBI that doesn’t seem to be getting much discussion from either the press or politicians. There has been a 50% reduction in the violent crime rate in the last twenty years and neither political party is taking credit for this? I thought politicians always wanted to take credit for good things? Perhaps they don’t want to draw attention to the fact that higher crime rates seem to correspond with inner cities? The great thing about living in the United States is you’re Free To Choose, at least for now, so feel free to Choose Your Own Crime Stats if you don’t like these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0&feature=player_embedded
Anti-Gun (freedom) Advocates Heckle Woman Wanting to Defend Her Children During Gun Violence Hearing Katie Pavlich News Editor, Townhall Jan 30, 2013
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/01/30/antigun-advocates-heckle-woman-wanting-to-defend-her-children-during-gun-violence-hearing-n1501355
The “Second Amendment” is non-negotiable. The U.S. govt. needs grabbed up by the scruff of the neck and thrown out the door. Removed and replaced with “Constitutional Representatives”. All 535 members. Thee “Constitution” is the “Sacred Law of the Land” period. I am glad Ms. Giffords is ok. She was the unintended target of a manufactured crisis, and is lucky to be alive. Judge John M.Rolls was thee target.
Armed citizens are freemen.
Unarmed citizens are serfs.
I think the Redcoats are coming.
“I think the Redcoats are coming.”
Naw, that’s their diapers.
Not sure what the current numbers reflect, but I’m willing to suggest, that they will ‘trend’ to the below data. A major problem in the U.S. is ‘access” source of firearms for those who shouldn’t have access to firearms! It’s my personal opinion, that if gun owners would responsibly address the major ‘access’ problem they present (consequences with teeth) to illegal gun possession and the government responsibly address mental health issues of potential gun ownership, a lot of the ‘regulating’ problems would go away.
In 1994, more than a quarter-million households experienced the theft of one or more firearms; nearly 600,000 guns were stolen during these burglaries. (Cook and Ludwig, 1997.)
In an early survey of incarcerated felons, 32 percent reported that they had acquired their most recent handgun by theft.15 A more recent survey reported that guns had been stolen by 13 percent of all arrestees, 25 percent of all juvenile arrestees, 29 percent of the gang members, and 30 percent of the drug sellers. (J.D. Wright and P. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous, Hawthorne, NY: Aldine de Gruyter, Inc.)
In 1997, 14 percent, or 1 in 7 male juveniles, reported carrying a gun outside the home in the previous 30-day period.9 In the inner city, the problem is more severe. One study involving 800 inner-city high school students reported that 22 percent said they carried weapons. (J.F. Sheley and J.D. Wright, Gun Acquisition and Possession in Selected Juvenile Samples, Research in Brief, Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention.) An even greater number of convicted juvenile offenders reported carrying guns — 88 percent, according to another study. (Sheley and Wright)
“..It’s my personal opinion,”
Thats nice.
However my personal right as recognised by the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution states:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Unless you are a convicted felon or a person diagnosed with a pysocholgical disorder, you have every right to possess, or not too, own a firearm equivelent to what the current status of militia carries. The American Fathers would never fathom the idea of a “standing Army”.. way to much Cromwell for their tastes, but yet here we are.
Did you pick up a note dropped by some +1,100 Green Berets?
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40772
No worries Zeke.. you are a pigressive and you will grunt the scripted talking points as all pavlovian trained democrats are.
See you on the flip side.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…”
Haven’t you taken note that the pro gun totters have backed off that tired old mantra and for good cause? Just a reminder to read USC Title 18, 115…. then report back with your citations showing the Treason, Seditrion and Subversive Activities statutes to be unconstitutional. Maybe read Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution and the Sedition Act of 1798.
“…the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
NObody has yet attempted to infringed on the right of any citizen to bear arms with the exceptions you stated, thus far. Well, maybe the NRA since, they have a very long history of supporting government regulating of guns. Maybe check out the NRAs historic endorsements of government regulating, especially during the 20th century, say the 20s and 30s. But heres some of the more recent endorsements of ‘government regulating’ of which you’ll probably recognize. Read their history during the government proposed expansion of the ATF. Wasn’t until 2010 that the NRA took a left turn in Albuquerque to join the momentum of the tea party movement.
“NRA Executive Director Wayne R. LaPierre reiterated the group’s endorsement of this federalizing trend. While rightly and forcefully condemning the draconian, full-speed-ahead gun control proposals tendered by the notoriously anti-gun Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), LaPierre offered as an alternative a reduced-speed package headed in the same direction. Said the NRA exec:
• “We think it’s reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone.”
• “We think it’s reasonable to prevent all juveniles convicted of violent felonies from owning guns, for life.”
• “We think it’s reasonable to provide full funding for the National Instant Check System so it operates efficiently and instantly.”
• “We think it’s reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.”
• “We think it’s reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government.”
Each of the NRA’s “reasonable” endorsements constitutes support for federal usurpation of power and an expansion of the federal police state. Let’s just look at its endorsement of “full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government.” That stance puts the NRA in the position of accepting the false claims of the gun control lobby that Congress may constitutionally infringe on gun rights. It also lends credence to the notion that the anti-gun laws Congress already has passed, if fully enforced, could curb firearm-related criminal activity without eviscerating the Second Amendment. Ergo, if enforcement of existing federal legislation helps reduce crime, why not enact more to further reduce, or eliminate, crime?”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/14076-the-nra%e2%80%99s-gun-control-schizophrenia
Sen. Rand Paul on Fox News w/ Eric Bolling discussing the U.S. sending F-16′s to Egypt – 1/31/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_luF3FoH_u8