If We Won’t Fight for Israel, for Whom Shall We Fight?
Israel is under attack, and has been for some time. Although the attack has often been in the form of words instead of bullets (or missiles), even the verbal jabs have hinted total war and the stated goal of seeing Israel “wiped off the map.”
And in the wake of the Gaza flotilla incident, the rhetoric from unsteady men like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Britain’s George Galloway portends a cessation of talking altogether.
In other words, the Middle East that was once a powder keg has now become a powder keg with a lit fuse, and Israel is ground zero.
To force war with greater effectiveness, Iran is warning “it could send Revolutionary Guard naval units to escort humanitarian aid convoys seeking to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza.” And Turkey has also pledged to escort convoys.
Of course, neither Turkey nor Iran would dare do either of these things if they knew the United States was going to stand with her ally, Israel. But from Obama’s initial silence following the flotilla seizure to the more recent statements from Vice President Joe Biden indicating the administration is “consulting … partners” to figure out what to do, it’s evident we will not be doing much fighting for the Jewish nation.
And this brings us to the central point — namely, the explicit rift in the very Judeo-Christian underpinnings of our nation.
In a real sense, our unwillingness to fight for Israel is a de facto abandonment of the nation that has served as the depository of some of Western Civilization’s greatest ideals.
What do I mean?
What I mean is that Israel is the country to which God directly gave his law and commands. Even non-Jews, like myself, know that it was to Israel that the God of heaven communicated his law. Among these laws were ceremonial and moral precepts, containing guidelines for purification and behavior.
“And this brings us to the central point — namely, the explicit riff in the very Judeo-Christian underpinnings of our nation”
Exactly..exactly. And as it has been for at least the past 100 years the enemy of traditional Judeo Christianity is the secular religion of Marxism
in all its manifestations from full blown Communism, to the Church of the
Reverend Wright.
You’re not fighting for us, you’re fighting for yourselves.
EXACTLY! Try telling that to Western “best and brightest” and “experts”.Addled by Marxism/Socialism, chemistry, the “sexiness” of decadence and their own wonderfulness.(Harvard Professor of Psychology Timothy Leary began the adoration of the “elites” with these poisons, and before him Harvard graduates FD.Roosevelt and John F.Kennedy with the siren song of Marxism/Socialism). It’s fitting that the present Chief Executive “messiah” of the USA should be a graduate of Harvard. What a tortuous journey from John Adams to Barack Obama, with his acolytes in Congress, Court, information and educational media of the US. Partying with massive amounts of tax money expropriated from compliant “peasants” while they steer the ships of state of the US and its followers world-wide of that oddly named UN into the iceberg
Amen, Terry, Amen.
So true in so many ways.
The world is too blinded by its genocidal Jew-hatred.
The result will be a nuclear war. Possibly a global one.
Fight for Israel? The West won’t even fight for itself. It would rather kill Jews than survive.
Eric R. wrote: “The world is too blinded by its genocidal Jew-hatred.”
I’m not so sure. Not that the world (especially Europe) isn’t anti-semitic, it is. But I think we are looking at appeasement, plain and simple. It’s an old story, when the bully dominates the playground, potential victims always side with the bully against his current target. They’re hoping they won’t be next. Of course, it always helps to mask your cowardice with self-righteousness. It just looks better.
“What I mean is that Israel is the country to which God directly gave his law and commands. Even non-Jews, like myself, know that it was to Israel that the God of heaven communicated his law. Among these laws were ceremonial and moral precepts, containing guidelines for purification and behavior.”
I see the world in much simpler geo-political terms. Israel is the only stable and successful democracy in the entire Middle East. That alone should entitle it to our unconditional support. Add to that the fact that, whenever they are attacked or have to fight a war, they NEVER ask us for American troops, only our support (usually in the form of military supplies). Add to that the fact that they have fought for their freedom for over 60 years now (and continue to win) and that they are willing to die for their democracy, puts them in the same category that Great Britain was in when she was alone and had to face Germany’s overwhelming superiority in 1940. For the United States to shy away from supporting a fellow democracy that is standing tall against a bunch of Islamic fundamentalist thugs, dictators, and psychopaths is simply amazing, as well as disgusting.
Obama just keeps thinking that if he’s so very nice to the Arabs and the Islamists that they will simply “adore” him and work with him on Middle East “peace.” What utter nonsense. The Muslims are playing Obama for a fool and he’s too stupid to realize that they are simply buying time for Iran to become a nuclear power. Even Turkey, which is a NATO member and is supposed to be our ally, understands this and now has clearly thrown in its lot with the Iranians.
If Democracies around the world don’t stand together now they’ll eventually all be defeated individually. They will then be forced to bow at the feet of the new caliphate, with its capital located in Tehran. These are dangerous times and, unfortunately, we have an inexperienced, naiive, and self-absorbed leader that doesn’t have a clue on how to deal with these Islamic thugs. I’d really hate to see Obama try to negotiate a deal in a bazaar in Tehran. He’d be lucky if he came away with his shorts.
Sunni Turkey is hardly going allow Shia Iran to rule the Caliphate. The Iranian regime is dying; the people have had enough of the Mullahs. Thirty years under a thugocracy will do that. Turkey on the other hand has just begun its Islamic revolution and will become a greater threat than Iran soon. Turkey, as well as every other county in the region, is gearing up to produce its own Sunni bomb to counter the Shia nukes of Iran.
I am ashamed to be a westerner in Australia. Our country have not thrust their hands out showing Israel support. Strange how weak the west has become, especially in light of those countries that openly despise us and our ways. The world can be divided into those that are openly despising us (fundamental/political Islam) and those remaining quiet and doing nothing (the western democracies – like Australia).
This is a time where civilization, as we treasure it in the west and honour what it stands for, ought to stand united and should be speaking loudly and clearly to those despots and hate-mongers i.e Ahmadinejad, Hamas & Hezbollah. A show of strength is the only thing these people respect.
The sooner Iran and Turkey are warned against breaching the Israeli blockade, the less likely it is that Israel will have to deal with them alone.
Hands up if you stand for justice, equality and good old common sense…..
I don’t see too many hands in the air – only guns of our enemies. Yes, they who oppose peace and constantly call for Israel’s demise are our enemy. Get it right and act now to protect them.
if deathwish christians and deathwish jews want nuke war, and prepare for nuke war, nuke war is what they’ll get.
and once the dust has settled, maybe it will be easier to see that israel was a bad idea in the first place.
i mean, you guys make all this fuss over the ten commandments, and one of those commandments is “thou shalt not kill”… yet israel and israeli america were founded in ethnic cleansing and genocide… so the really operative commandment –the one the “judeo christians” follow– is “might makes right”.
live by the sword, die by the sword… no sweat, GI.
For a nation founded in ethnic cleansing America sure has a lot of people with different ethnicities. And that commandment is correctly translated as “Thou shalt not murder.”
You make a good point..though not the one you intend. Your thinking is
the Leftism of the Third World..based in ignorance, resentment and
self pity. We shouldnt try to change you, or even care about you.
We need to keep your types out. The Third World dog eat dog ethos will
do the rest.
The Israeli government has been minimizing its actions concerning atrocities and inhumane treatment toward people with torture, murder and oppression of civilians while imposing news blackouts and denying the allegations. The very arrogance of the government’s position as well as the denials in the face of discovery by the outside world has lit the “fuse” you speak of. In effect, the Israeli government has thumbed its nose at the rest of the world. Israel has become the bully of the Middle East with its knowledge the US government has loomed in the background.
Israel has the right and obligation to defend itself against the other “bullies” in the region but it has no right to indiscriminately kill civilians particularly women and children. It has no right to oppress whole populations with actions outlawed by the Geneva Convention. They distort and hide this truth and now are feeling the backlash as is the US government in its compliance with the process.
You speak of the precepts of morality and “…Western Civilization’s greatest ideals” handed down by a deity as “guidelines for purification and behavior.” The whole process has become the putrefaction of morality and its subsequent behavior.
Your minimization of the Israeli government’s action and the deaths of nine people you describe as the “flotilla incident” is a classic example of Israeli PR denials. What would you say about the Liberty “incident” or the Rachel Corrie “incident” or any number of incidents of murder and oppression committed against a whole population? You say Israel stands for “freedom of religion and the right to private property” as well as “freedom of speech and the press.” Any enlightened person understands those mighty “precepts” are in no way extended to the Palestinians. Bulldozing a home with residents inside does not reflect an understanding of the “right to private property.” What balderdash.
How outrageous you suggest we owe our “gratitude and fidelity” to this arrogant and oppressive government. The US has supported the Israeli government with money and guns and must now pay the piper for this as well as assume responsibility for its own atrocities. It has come to pass the national interest of the US government is not the national interest of the US population. Israel has been an instrumental factor of the depletion of our national treasury. Is it any wonder the Israeli and US government are the most hated in the world?
By geography Israel is surrounded by very real threats. If the nation of Islam decides it wants to start a war of annihilation then fight we must but fighting a war against a declared enemy determined to destroy Western civilization is a lot different from gunning down unarmed innocents. Western civilization has become so far off center it has lost sight of those moral precepts.
Another post blathering a series of unsubstantiated or out of context claims that mean zero. If the Palestinians wanted peace they could have it. Period. Casualties of an ongoing guerrilla war are tragic but to deny the reality of that is plain dumb.
You back a Win – Lose negotiation for the Palestinians which will never happen. Grow up.
Ideologue.
Change your name to Bore. That’s where you’ve gone with your name calling drool. Educate yourself. If you know how to do research and can sort through the facts you might have something intelligent to add… but I doubt it. You’d have too much trouble trying to understnad it.
When you try to run a blockade you are no longer a civilian. When you try to bash in my skull with a pipe you are no longer unarmed. When you wish to become a martyr I’ll gladly oblige.
It’s amazing the number of ways in which anti-semites try to disguise their belief that the greatest sin in the world, is a Jew defending himself.
What I find amazing is the number of people who label an opposing view anti-Semitic. Your short sighted assessment exposes your emotional and irrational mind. Atrocities are being committed by both sides of this battle. To ignore that is to be blinded by your own shortcomings or blessed by ignorance… which is it? I can’t help but wonder if you read beyond the first couple of sentences before you pulled the trigger. Take a deep breath Skippy.
Our unwillingness to fight for Israel/with Israel is telling. It indicates how far we’ve moved just between the presidency of George W and Obama: the left has turned our back on our friends.
the most comical aspect of this “judeo-christian” crusade, is: once the dust settles, the deathwish christians will have to convert jews to christianity, or exterminate them.
runnerup for “most comical aspect” is the jewish idea of tikkun olam, which is apparently interpreted as meaning “nuke whoever resists, and once we’ve blown half the world to bits, we can repair it, and rebuild it to radical jewish specifications”.
Why do you bother.
One thing the has constantly amazed me about militant atheists is that they not only know nothing about Christianity, but they don’t want to.
Hatred is so much easier when you can maintain your ignorance.
You seem to have confused “Christian” with “Islamic”. It is a public and historical goal of Islam to convert or kill. The public and historical instruction to Christians, on the other hand, is submission to secular rulers (except where they clearly violate moral law – e.g. Extermination camps or Abortion mills). While we are instructed to “expel the (sexually) immoral brother and not even eat with them”, the same passage says this doesn’t apply to pagans who “don’t know any better”. In the parable of the Enemy who sowed tares among the wheat, the workers offer to pull up the tares, but the Owner says, “no, leave them until the harvest lest you pull up some wheat by accident”. Unlike Islam, the Christian strategy is to show Grace until the judgement (harvest). The judgement is initiated by God, not by AMadJihad.
meanwhile, as global production of crude oil stagnates (table 1.1d or 4.1d), it looks as if the PNAC project to gain control of the world’s biggest remaining oil deposits has stalled, so it’s time to call out the religious shock troops –deathwish christians and deathwish jews who are too stupid to see how cynically they’re being used.
looks like another in a succession of bad “judeo-christian” ideas.
No matter how many times this idiots claims are refuted, they keep popping up. Like mushrooms from a room full of sh#t.
deathwish christians and deathwish jews ??
OK which faith has the suiciders for ALLAH?
which faith does think afterlifeis MORE important than this life?
ever heard of Amedinehjahd? read his “white horse” wishes
HINT-JEWS do not have a heaven/hell concept- their faith concerns THIS life
Christians have no mandate to kill for Jesus and get heaven if they take other faiths people with them as they do it
youare a very confused and ill informed person as well as just another ridiculous example of the lengths a person will go to to present insanity as reality
truly amazing amount of jewhate coming out the woodwork these days
now that darkness has been deemed light all the cockroaches feel free to crawl about and spew their not well hidden NAZISM
Stop supporting the Israeli’s. Our current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a direct result of our policy of blindly supporting the Israeli’s.
How? I thought the Afghan war had something to do with airplanes. The modern jihadist’s ideology has nothing to do with Israel, something the left just won’t or can’t accept. One reason for this is an inability to accept that this ideology has deep and historical roots in Islam. Do a little research, start with Ahmad ibn ‘Abd al-Halim Ibn Taymiyya and Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab, and work your way forward to Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood. Qutb lived in Greeley, CO for a year and saw America as a soulless materialistic hedonistic society. Mind you that was in 1949, imagine what he would say today. America is the “Great Satan”; Israel is only the “Little Satan”. Throwing Israel to the wolves won’t help us any.
For someone who claims to speak for the jihadists, it’s strange that the jihadists don’t agree with you.
Bin Laden’s manifesto claimed that his main motivation for attacking us on 9/11 had to do with our soldiers being in Saudi Arabia. Our soldiers were in Saudi Arabia to protect that country from Iraq, and had been in that country since we were asked in to help push Iraq out of Kuwait. The war in Iraq was a direct result of Saddam’s failure to live up to his agreements in the cease fire that followed his troops being kicked out of Kuwait.
Bin Laden also had a long list of greivances, up to and including the fact that the jihadists were kicked out of Spain 500 years ago.
Your belief that Israel is the sole cause of every bad thing that happens is cute, but it has no basis in reality.
http://truthandcommonsense.com/2010/06/09/here-we-go-biden-was-right-they-are-going-to-test-obamas-inner-strength/
In my opinion allowing Israel to choose between survival and the survival of its enemies is a mistake. Like I said in the post, people will do what they have to do in order to survive. Until you personally experience the panic and then the determination of a life/death struggle, you don’t get to what depths a person, or a nation, will go. If Israel thinks she is going to be overrun, she will do what I would do, which would be to turn a good portion of the Middle East into a glass parking lot.
As I say in the post, I wonder how the theorists and Jew haters in the White House would react over how their ideas turned into radioactive dust. I’ll bet they didn’t think of that option while sipping champagne and nibbling on goose pate.
yup.
that would be a fine monument to the “judeo-christian” tradition.
No, that would be a fine example of ” don’s f_ck with me”. “I will do whatever it takes to make sure my people will live on.”
You not getting it, do you? What part of “NEVER AGAIN” do you not understand???
• “No, that would be a fine example of ” don’s f_ck with me”. “I will do whatever it takes to make sure my people will live on.”
• You not getting it, do you? What part of “NEVER AGAIN” do you not understand???”
Your assessment, although crude, is quite understandable as is the thought process of “never again.” However there are other considerations along the way.
“LOST TRIBE Are Israel’s battles costing the country its soul?” is an article in the June 14th issue of Newsweek written by Ehud Eiran. It’s worth the read for those who collect information from many sources. He goes on to say;
“Increasingly, our conflict with the Palestinians is separating us, not only from our moral faculties, but also from the rest of our senses.” He cites the statistics of the Palestinian death toll from 1987-2009. “Over time, our hearts have grown harder…” [And internal investigations of these deaths have only amounted to a handful over the last decade.]
“Israel’s almost complete lack of empathy for the ‘other’ has not always been the case. In a noted 1923 article, Ze’ev Jabotinsky, the founding father of Israel’s hardline revisionists, effectively acknowledged the logic of Palestinian resistance to Zionism. He wrote that the Arabs, like every other indigenous people, ‘view their country as their national home… and will not willingly agree to new landlords.’ Sixty-three years later, in a similar vein, Ehud Barak admitted that if he’d been born a Palestinian, he would have joined ‘one of the terrorist organizations.” Yet no contemporary Israeli leader, Barak included, would dare to show similar understanding of the Palestinian plight today.
This hardening of the heart is not limited to our leaders. They, after all, merely reflect popular attitudes…
…It is not only the spread of moral insensitivity I fear. As Dean Acheson observed, there’s something worse than immoral policy: erroneous policy. The apparent inability of Israeli leaders to connect our goals and our means puts the country in long-term jeopardy. Our most profound problem is the 130 years after young Zionists began immigrating to Palestine with the hope of creating a safe place for Jews, we’re still relying on force to secure our existence. Ironically, more Jews have been killed since 1945 in the “safe haven” than any other place.”
Erin goes on to describe the actions of the “killings aboard the Gaza aid ship do nothing to ameliorate this situation; they only create new sources of resistance.” He points out ‘the blockade that brought about the flotilla is dehumanizing, barely justified on security grounds.”
There is a description of Erin’s personal philosophical battle regarding the approach to the conflict with the Palestinians. This is the RD version. It goes on.
Now I suspect those critics who offer to assist other writers in their martyrdom and recognize all opposing views as those of idiots may be quick to respond in kind to this information and dismiss it with some sort of vulgarity or attribute it to some liberal, leftist Judeo-Christian blah blah blah. For anyone else interested, whether you agree with the article or not, the author Ehud Eiran “is a major in the IDF reserves and worked for Israel’s attorney general and on Prime Minister Barak’s foreign-policy team. His book The Essence of Longing: General Erez Gerstein and the War in Lebanon was published in Israel in 2007. He is currently a research fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School.” I accept and respect his credentials as a lot more valid than those of the critics mentioned.
You can bend it and twist it… you can misuse it and abuse it… but even God cannot change the truth ~ Michael Levy
There has been a undeniable (and unacceptable) shift in our foreign policy over the past 18 months. I feel shame over our refusal to fight for Israel.
not really… the war in aghanistan has expanded, we’ve increased sanctions on iran, the US refrained from condemning israel’s actions in the flotilla caper, we’re still pumping billions of dollars of aid into israel, obama’s caved on settlements.
the “undeniable (and unacceptable) shift in our foreign policy” is nothing more than neocons and their media handmaidens attempting to “create their own reality” in order to pressure obama into attacking iran.
“In a real sense, our unwillingness to fight for Israel is a de facto abandonment of the nation that has served as the depository of some of Western Civilization’s greatest ideals.”
Isreal has served as a depository of US Dollars only. There are no ideals to be found in Israel, and this apologetic is a disgusting but all too common display of the Zionist rhetoric hijacking a conservative medium to benefit Israel.
Are you implying there are ideals in the surrounding countries…some ideals.
Live and let live. Too bad more than half the human population doesn’t agree with that.
Boils down to one of the seven deadly sins. Envy.
jews are entitled to defend the property they stole from palestinians, because might makes right, and “might makes right” is the real judeo-christian ideal.
now, israeli americans are entitled to “benevolent global hegemony” if they’re mighty enough to grab the remaining oil… oil that will be needed to make them mighty enough to achieve their hegemony, nevermind that the benevolence of this hegemony has already caused the needless deaths of maybe a million people, and the project’s just getting started.
the only truly operative idea in the judeo-christian tradition is “might makes right”.
what’re you gonna do about it?
nuke half the world?
if you nuke half the world, what’s that gonna do for the cherished ideals of the judeo-christian tradition?
The Muslim Palestinians ( yes there are Jewish and Christian Palestinians too ) currently control 80% of the territory of Palestine. On that 80% they have three operating governments. One in Jordan, one in the West Bank and one in Gaza. Despite the fact that Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years Muslims refuse to recognize any Jewish rights what so ever. The violence in Hebron is a case in point. The Jewish neighborhood in Hebron comprises only 3% of the town. In that neighborhood 800 Jews live surrounded by 30,000 Muslims. Hebron and its religious sites have been holy to Jews for 2700 years before Mohammed was even born. Yet the Muslims wish to deny Jewish rights to worship in Hebron. The Israeli army is not called in to harass the muslim population. It is there to prevent a repeat of the the 1929 massacre when the muslims rioted and murdered Jewish men, women and children. It is time for people to look at the history of Palestine and ask themselves the following- Why do the Palestinians require more than the 80% of Palestine they already control? Why do the Palestinians refuse to recognize Jewish rights to areas that were Jewish before Mohammed was born? Why are the Palestinians so interested in building on top of Christian and Jewish Holy sites? Why have the Palestinians driven the Christian community from Bethlehem? Why do the Palestinians indoctrinate their children to hate rather than live in peace? Only when these questions are answered, only when Jordan, which occupies 77% of Palestine, is asked to accept its historical obligations, will there be peace in the region.
so the 700,000 palestinians who were terrorized from their homes and land had no right to the land they were living on.
i guess, by that same argument, we could move all israelis to las vegas, seeing as how sheldon adelson and steve wynn own most of vegas.
sounds good to me.
The 700, 000 muslims that were displaced when Israel fought its War of Independence should have been given the homes vacated by the 700,000 Jews who were terrorized from their homes in Morocco, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Yemen , etc. That would have solved the problem.
Man, you do live in a world of lies, don’t you.
They weren’t terrorized out of their homes. At least they weren’t by the Israeli’s. It was there fellow jihadists who told them to leave their homes so that it would be easier to kill all of the jews. They left their homes voluntarily, so that the surrounding countries could more easily attack Israel.
Why don’t you for once learn some real history.
your racist rant is mastubatory. i doubt that you leave the house, certainly not to have ever gone to a library or read a book. it is not just that you are ignorant and uninformed, you are very sick. I am sure your terrible acne as a teenager, when they called you pizza face and laughed at you, is partly to blame for your illness. and watch your mouth about Jews, just in case you ever do get out of the basement, because you could get your tongue ripped out.
Moron…the Jews were the Palestinians.
it’s about time you judeo-christians abandoned all your pretenses at morality, as suggested by mr dror in the jewish forward…
most of the world sees you, now, for what you are, so you might as well quit acting like believe in anything but force… and nevermind how many people you kill: killing people isnt a moral problem, it’s only a public relations problem.
the conflict is killing you, isnt it…? …the conflict between your supposed ideals and your actions, and some of you have gone over the edge into a nuclear masada complex…
deathwish christians and deathwish jews… united in a nuke death spiral.
pretty pathetic
Isnt it funny that when you criticize the West ..you cant do it except
in terms of the ideals which you borrow from the West? You dont
criticize Islam on those grounds do you? You dont even dare mention
any of this in Egypt or Syria or Iran..do you? Syria can kill thousands
of muslims, Iran can shoot down protestors in the streets by hundreds..
and you say nothing. Why? Because you know there precisely how
futil such think is in the Islamic world.
Funny how you claim that Christians and Jews have a death wish, however it is the jihadist, which you worship, who strap bombs on themselves in the hopes of killing innocent people.
Isn’t Democracy an ideal? What about freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? These aren’t ideals or are you saying Israel doesn’t have them?
Obama has abandoned all of America’s allies, not just Israel. Eastern Europe, South Korea, Japan, Great Britain, France, and most of the Arab world now realizes that Barack Obama really is a New Leftist who sees American behavior as the root cause of most of the world’s problems. Obama really believes that Russia, North Korea, Iran, and the rest of the rogue regimes are that way because America has treated them as enemies rather than deal with them as legitimate countries with legitimate needs and rights.
Obama believes that by abandoning America’s allies and sucking up to the dictators he can “heal the planet and cause the seas to begin to recede.”
Obama does not strike me as being that great of an idiot. I am forced to conclude that his true goal is a Marxist one of destruction.
I am a supporter of Isael, but why do WE have to fight for Israel when Israel will not fight for herself? That is the bigger question. In the last two wars that Israel fought, they snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. When the offensive against Lebanon elicited too many negative editorials from the world, it was aborted. The war against the Gaza missile launchers was cut short after a few tongue-clucks from Condeleeza Rice. Israel released numerous terrorist murderers of children in exchange for a couple of dead bodies. Israel fails to use the media to its advantage, so the enemy controls the narrative. All of this means that the Arabs are emboldened to fight again; without a decisive victory, Israel might as well have lost the war.
So how do you fight for Israel if this country wants to commit suicide?
And don’t give me the garbage about Israel “targeting women and children” when it is well known that Hamas has been shooting rockets out of schools and civilian areas, when weapons are transported by Red Crescent Ambulances (even the Nazis never used the Red Cross ambulances to do that). When the Israelis bomb the missile sites, the self-righteous media bonanza that Hamas gets is worth more than the dead kids that they put in harm’s way. The Palestinian is the Uber-Victim, and to the uber victim in this age of PC go the spoils. Arabs think nothing about blowing up children eating pizza or at a disco (witness how they HANGED A 7_YEAR OLD AS A SPY!), yet Israel goes out of its way to avoid civilian casualities (as does the US, but we too get excoriated for genocide against Arabs).
You rightly note that in the last two wars, Israel stopped short of victory. What you ignore is that in both wars, the US was pressuring Israel to stop. Up to and including threats to cut off military aid if they didn’t.
Trainwreck.
And how do you think most Israelis feel when they see so many of our own politicians give in to pressure, advocate appeasement, make incredible blunders? Sometimes it’s so painful, I can’t even read the newspapers.
Israel when Israel will not fight for herself?
Israel suffers the same problems as the USA- a large political bloc of suicidal leftards, peaceniks who rather be “kind and tolerant” of enemies than fight. People more concerned with IMAGE and “being liked” and opinions- People who soncerely think if they are nice their enemies will stand down the Obama illness- yes it’s true ISRAEL could STOMP it’s enemies like in Lebanon, but the UN and USA threatened them if they did.
People keep believeing if ONLTY ISrael will put down fighting the world will accept them- when obviously it is not true- they suffer cognitive dissonance- unable to accept reality of it they fantacize instead.
One cannot help feel bad about having to destroy Lebanon- formerly an ally iof ISarel- Israel tried to protect them from Syria/IRAN/Hezzbolliars -even trained their army- but Lebanon lost – people fled Hezzbo immigrated multipled killed their leaders took over plotics and provoked Israeli attack- tha way Iran Syria get to try to destroy Israel without losing one drop of blood, they sacrifice Lebanon blood and infrastructure- what a deal!! Win or lose the actual war, they still win by crying to thge world about the poor disproportinate war waged on Lebs- the whole time Israel really fighting the Iran/Syria, not disproportionate at all-
Just how difficult is the next president’s job going to be? Its a long way 20 2013. By that time all the oil in the middle east will be radioactive. And it will be, again, all our fault.
No it won’t. Fallout dust isn’t oil-soluble, and oil doesn’t activate when exposed to a neutron flux.
It’s 1938 all over again, only worse. Israel will be fed to genocidal sociopaths and it will be the United States that becomes the greatest appeaser. The good news is that at least the Dutch have apparently come to their senses and have made Geert Wilders’s party the third largest in the country. Congressional candidates this fall ought to be asked whether they are willing to stand up to the scum in Tehran and Riyadh and the rest of us should vote according to the response.
If your title’s question refers to the Obama Administration:
1) labor unions
2) deep-pocket Democrat campaign donors (those not included in #1)
3) leftwing dictators the world over
4) Obama’s approval ratings
I may have left out a category or two, but I think this list would cover well over 90% of the “what this administration would fight for” list.
President Obama is the greatest catastrophe collectively experienced by Jews since the Holocaust.
some jews are doing pretty good with obama as their front man… goldman sachs, the bankers, the insurance guys…
it could be that big money jews realize what a bad idea israel was… i mean, why else would they loot america when their looting is damaging israel’s protector?
if america is doomed anyhow, now that oil production seems to have peaked, and there’s just not enough left of america to defend israel –which was such a bad idea in the first place– why not loot america of every nickel and use the loot to hide out until the dust settles, then buy another country and start over?
looks kinda like israel is being given enough rope to hang itself, and the only thing, really, to wonder about is: how are we gonna salvage this mythical “judeo-christian” tradition once it’s discredited itself so bad?
will israel be sacrfificed in a nuke false flag, blamed on oily arabs and persians, and will that attack be the pretext for one last mobilization of america and once last attempt at achieving “benevolent global hegemony”, one last attempt to salvage the reputation of the “judeo-christian ethic”?
who knows?
Anyone with money is a jew?
And we are hundreds of years away from peak oil.
People who don’t believe in G-d, can simply ignore this post. I have no need or desire to debate them. Since they have not achieved the first level of wisdom there is no need for dialogue.
For those who understand there is a spiritual side to existence I address this post.
Democracy is not the reason Israel should be supported. It is not a reason to support any government. Hitler was democratically elected. So was Hamas. Support for any government must rest on the principal of Freedom of Religion. One day Israel will no longer be a democracy. However Freedom of Religion will remain a core value regardless. That is what America is all about. That is what makes America special. It is that Freedom that the leftists and jihadis wish to destroy.
There is another reason to support Israel. It is the Jewish right of ownership of Israel that underpins moral and legal ownership of private property all over the world. A fundamental human right is to be safe in ones home. To be able to live their and raise ones family. Where does this come from? From the Jews.
When Abraham bought the burial plot for Sarah the standard was set for the moral and legal rights for property transfer and ownership. The description of the transaction has been followed since the time of Abraham. Who bought, who sold, how much was paid, the form of payment, what the boundaries are, the declaration of both parties that the transaction was done of their own free will, that their were witnesses, and that the transaction be recorded for posterity.
Today we see growing claims by Mexico that parts of the USA belong to it. This is the tip of the iceberg.
The failure to stand up for Israel, for the absolute rights of Jews to settle and live in peace anywhere in Israel, undermines the very spiritual core of human freedom.
There is more at stake than meets the eye.
Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself… just like every other nation in the world. However, I see no reason based on mythology that the US must help Israel defend itself. That’s just Dominionist nonsense.
If we want to argue that Israel is a competent democracy in a area filled with thug based governments… that is, at least a sensible political reason… but to argue that God gave them the Commandments… its nonsense. If we’re to believe the Bible as fact and consider the Jews as God’s Chosen people then let them stand and fight with YHVH backing them up. If God wants Israel to survive there is no need of American intervention… He can kill 180,000 of her enemies in a single night with a single Angel. He can bring down hail the size of washtubs and take out enemy weapons. If God exists, if the Hebrew Scriptures are true, if Israel is the Chosen Nation… then let God protect her as the Bible claims He did, does and will.
Alternatively, join us in the 21st century and make sane political arguments as to why we should help a fledgling nation of people returned to an ethnic homeland. If we rip the Bullshit religion out of this MESS (both Islamic and Hebrew) MAYBE we can find a peace accord somewhere. If God wants his temple rebuilt in Jerusalem, then let Him secure the city and provide the resources. If he isn’t competent to do that,. let them go build it elsewhere and stop risking worldwide conflict over a damned hillside.
This double play of “They’re God’s People” “We must provide military support” is nonsense. Either they are God’s People and don’t need any help, or they’re just people and need help. If they’re just people and need help, then we should help, and they should quit worrying about Temple Mount.
And that goes for the damned Islamics as well. Either join the 21st century or let your Gods fight over it. The United States is not YHVH’s Army… if YHVH is real, his army is a heck of a lot more powerful.
Did you ever think maybe WE are the tool God wishes to use to save Israel??
Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
When God returned the Jews to Israel after the Babylonian exile, he used the Babylonians to do it, and to help pay for the rebuilding of Jeruselaem.
We’ll assume you meant the Medes and Persians, as the Babylonian government wasn’t helping much of anyone after that whole ‘Destruction of Babylon’ thing.
If he does… then it will be obvious. God put it into the heart of Darius to send His People back home. If God puts it into the heart of the President to go whoop ass in the Middle East, then hell, high water and all the blogsphere couldn’t stand in his way. Given the past few decades though, doesn’t look like he’s putting much of anything in the hearts.
Bad logic is bad. Believing that we need to base foreign policy on mythology is even worse.
Sorry..but when I hear someone attack tradtional religion as no longer necessary..what I find every single time is someone arguing for another
religion..and its always the one you are in the grips of..modern secularism
with huge portion of Teenage Cynicism thrown in. Instead of the beautiful
language, the poetry, the Parables, the bottomless wisdom..with your
types I get a bumper sticker glibness, and a philosophic depth only
Beavis and Butthead could be impressed with.
I believe traditional religion does have a role to play… foreign policy is not that role. The Psalms are beautiful. The Proverbs are wise. There is great value in many aspects of traditional religions… but basing today’s geopolitical decisions on a mythology of God granting property to some people 4000+ years ago… not a great use of religion.
Indeed, were we to look at the whole Bible, there’s some pretty strong evidence that God created a New Covenant with all of Mankind, the antitypical Covenant of which the Moasic covenant was merely a shadow of. If one considers 2000 years of tradition, the Mosaic Covenant is no longer in place… there is no longer a Priestly class, no longer even a way to determine who might be of the tribe of Levi. Thus no sacrifices could take place, nor could even a Temple be properly built nor dedicated to YHVH, there or anywhere else.
Do not presume that my disgust at abusing the Bible for political gain stems from a lack of knowledge or understanding. It reminds me of the Pharisees and Sadducees of the first century, selling shit wrapped up in a covering of the Law and expecting everyone to live with it.
TruthHugger, Read a paper lately?
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/639696.html
Actually that is precisely the use for religion and there is no other.
Only in the bland, dispirited words of the secularist is religion nothing
more nice sounding words..that essentially mean nothing and have no power. As for the “wrongness” of founding nations on religious commandments
you might want to look at the first sentence of the Declaration of Independence where Jefferson ask that God be witness to the just cause
of American Independence..and then goes on to derive the founding principles
of the country as deriving from God. Now get back to your Starbucks Double
Latte and space out on the wall paper patterns.
You are suffering from extreme literal mindedness. I meet Pharisees
every day in the flesh. Why is it you cant see them? They are everywhere.
Look over there.. a Lawyer trying to hair split the law and prove
black is white..or over there..a Educational Bureaucrat crushing the life out of a child..or over there a dull witted fool who reads the Bible but understands nothing but has every word memorized. Yes you meet Pharisees
in the strangest places.
well, sure.
and now all we got to do is nuke the russians, chinese, arabs and persians to convince them that the jewish god, 4000 years ago, determined who owns everything.
and if you dont believe us, you’ll wind up glowing in the dark.
good deal.
If one doesn’t wish to get stung one doesn’t intentionally sit on a beehive.
“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
When is the Western World going to wake up and realize that the Islamic World intends to conquer what no one is the past has. They want to have the entire World and if they keep going the way they are and we ( United States & Europe)continue to allow them to gain footholds in our countries, if we keep allowing them to intimidate out Media so they will not even put out a cartoon about Muslims, then they are and have been winning. Hussein Obama will not even acknowledge that we are fighting a War on Terror. If you do not recognize your enemy you will never defeat them. This is the message that is conveyed by the quote above, memorize it, repeat it often and tell our leaders “we the people” will defend Israel with or without them.
God Bless The United States
Actually ..no one “comes for anyone” in America today. We build temples to Islam on the site of the WTC We import huge numbers of people sworn to kill us. We teach Multiculturalism..until the roots of our own culture are destroyed The only ones the authorities “come for” is anyone who dares to stand oppose mass national suicide.
1.)
“jews are entitled to defend the property they stole from palestinians”
LOL.
The Israelis “stole” Israel from the Muslims in much the same way that the Indians “stole” India from the British in 1947.
Get a clue: Israel and all the lands about it belong to Jews and Christians, not to the descendants of Muslim Imperialists and colonialists…and, eventually we’re going to get it all back too.
And, btw, do the world a favor, and keep your idiotic opinions to yourself. You don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about, and all you’re doing is wasting precious bandwidth.
2.)
“for Whom Shall We Fight?
We should fight for ourselves.
Fatah\Hezbollah\Hamas have been murdering Americans for decades, and we should have wiped them off the face of the earth a long time ago…and driven the surviving Muslims back into Arabia, where they belong.
It’s never too late to make up for past mistakes, and letting the Pal terror quasi-state continue to exist is a big mistake. I hope to live long enough to see the mistake rectified, and to see all the Americans murdered by the Muslim Imperialists avenged.
Jews AND Christians? Just where did you get that idea?
As the spiritual descendants of Abraham, Christians expect to be able to visit the Holy Land. (No real justification for this. Demanding bunch.) When Suleiman captured Jerusalem, he allowed Christian pilgrims without much hassle (and was an exemplary ruler all around), and the crusades took a break. Later caliphs were not so tolerant. The Christian Holy sites are the Jewish ones plus some new testament additions – there is no conflict with Jews over Holy sites. Islam builds over (temple mount) and desecrates (Eastern gate) Jewish and Christian sites. (Although their attempt at desecration of the Eastern gate is humorously ignorant of Christianity.)
Whom will we fight for, the muslims. Just read an article stating that the US was backing a un resolution against Israel, supporting an investigation of Israel, but not turkey or the other muslims involved in the attack against Israel.
I see a nuke war as being imminent. Israels last line of defense. obama will in turn probably order our troops to attack the Israelis.
Obama needs to be removed from office and all who are complicit in his actions, vp, pelosi and so on.
flickervertigo = SPAM
What exactly would one expect from someone who’s a protege of a Weatherman terrorist and a disciple of a anti-American, Marxist minister? Or from a country that elects him President? I hope the country, at least, has woken up.
WE … should be fighting for our economic survival. The period from the close of WWII to about 1970-something was the period of remarkably stable prosperity for ALL AMERICANS. Technological innovation and manufacturing prowess characterized this period, with relatively much lower income disparity between the upper, middle, and lower classes. “Judeo-Christian values” played a part in creating a culture of personal responsibility and that’s about it. Personal responsibility and fairness played a major role and still does in treating each other fairly, as in the civil-rights movement.
God neither created nor manufactured computers, cars, airplanes, the electrical grid, the national highways, the space program, the healthcare system, oil cracking chemistry, nuclear power plants, etc. Members of our culture, often somewhat obscure, developed and implemented these technologies with capital obtained from a banking and market-trading system much different than the disfigured, gluttonous beast that has developed since.
The people responsible for shaping and controlling our monetary system have upset the the balance required for intelligent and entrepreneurial citizens of middle-or-lower economic status to bring their ideas and inventions to the light of day. About 4 of every 5 Americans, are middle-to-lower income.
The manipulators have acted entirely consistent with capitalist principles. To increase profits, they have systematically altered the monetary system such that participation in the US economy by anyone, always results in their profit.
funny how those who think statless ARBAS need a “homeland” they never set foot in (most of the grandchildren of 1948 refugees have never been to Israel, have no claims to land their grandparents rented from Ottoman or were hired by Zionists to farm, born in Lebanon or Egypt they are Lebanese or Egyptians, yet those nations give them no passports, disallow them jobs, ghettoize them, Egypt got Sinai yet made no country for them in it, keep them for pawns, they have 80% of the JEWISH land, Jordan were offered to stay yet made war on the King, Jordan recently ethnic cleansed many of these hostiles from it, they have been given two more parts of the mandate not theirs, Gaza and West Bank (JUDEA AND SAMARIA are JEWISH LAND occupied by hostile ARABS)
these same who cry for people who would slit thair infidel throats on TV, never have one interest in Kurds occupied by Turks and Iraq, oppressed, discrimnated and killed by Turks, their very language outlawed, not Tibet confiscated by Chinese, nor Cyprus stolen by Turks by force, nor most of N Africa being swallowed by ISLAMISTS, in additon to Malaysia Phillipines etc.
their only interest in destroying ISrael- pretending it’s about money or involvement or worse pretending to “humanitiarianism” like they care-
Gaza with an obesity proble, receiving massive AID lacks nothing, no one starves, this is carefully contrived Bullshitto hide behind- the money? ISrael receives less than 3% of it’s income from USA and can do without it- the 3% MUST BE SPENT ON USA GOODS- a normal trad agreement- just one more bullshit to hide behind- anti ZIONIST are NAZI jewhaters
and that includes the TRUTHERS oxymorons another ideology at it’s root the same old RED lie from Protocols
“most of the grandchildren of 1948 refugees have never been to Israel”
Most of the Jews in 1948 had never been to Israel either, what sort of logic is that?
Many of the Jews in Israel in 1948 were either descendants of Jews who weren’t dispursed by the Romans in 70AD or they were descendants of Jews who had moved back to Isael following the first Zionist movement in about 1840.
About 700,000 Jews came to Israel after the various Arab govts expelled all Jews.
If the Iranians are dopey enough to try a naval action in the Mediterranean,
Israel will destroy their navy and their ruling clique utterly.
If it’s Turkey, that could be another matter. A Turkish military intervention could spark a regional war, with Hamas, Hezbollah, and Syria joining in.
No matter what Obama’s shortcomings, even he must know that a regional war is not in our interest. I predict that–not just the US–but Germany, Japan, France et al will lean hard on Turkey not to provoke a naval clash with Israel.
I daresay they are already leaning on Turkey, even now.
The Turkish, Syrian, Iranian coalition seems very emboldened. Should they try to run the blockade with Turkish and Iranian military protecting the runners, Israel will sink all vessels. The question after that is what will this new coalition going to do, what is their next move? Should they declare war and attack Israel, Israel will defend itself. Without US backing, Israel will have to face the might of the Muslim world alone and that is very dangerous. If Israel is desperate and feels it is losing, it will go to any means to defend itself. What would be unleashed would be unspeakable. With Israel’s expertise in chemical, biological and nuclear warfare, the result would be the deaths of hundreds of millions. Gaza itself would cease to exist. Life in that area of the world would be reduced to the Terminator’s world.
You can’t argue morality with the world that doesn’t accept it. You can only react to the outrage they create. Example: Israel kills 9 blockade runners….the whole world reacts, two mosques are attacked and eighty are killed in Pakistan….the world just yawns.
Fact: The number one source of death for Moslems is other Moslems, and the number source of misery for Moslems is other Moslems. So, lets embrace a people who kill their very own and keep their populations as miserable as possible.
…which means jews and christians are entitled to kill yet more muslims, especially when those muslims own land or oil that jews or christians want.
two wrongs make a right, so europeans’ extermination of native americans makes it okay for europeans to exterminate palestinians.
would the biggest wrong of all, “the deaths of hundreds of millions” via israel’s samson option, be even righter? …or would it be the final example of the judeo-christian tradition gone haywire, an example that would expose the bankruptcy of judeo christian morality?
might makes right, too… according to judeo-christian actions –as opposed to smarmy lipservice given supposed “judeo christian ethics”…
you throw in a little racial supremacism, a little “chosenness”, and you got the perfect excuse to exterminate billions, overnight… provided you’re a believer.
time to dispense with the pretense at morals… if you’re gonna lead the world back to the law of the jungle, you might get more respect if you were honest about your intentions.
the final example of the decay of the “judeo christian ethic” is the neocons’ “nuclear primacy”, which anticipates nuke first strikes on russia and china.
from the council on foreign relations foreign affairs March/April 2006…
benevolent global hegemony, here we come!!
nuclear fimbulwinter solves the global warming problem for four or five years, at least until the big chunks settle out and quit shading us…
…too bad those chunks will glow in the dark, and so will we.
Any twist and turn necessary to preserve the thing dearest to the Perpetual
Adolescent eh? You know.. Mindless Relativism. The instinctual need to avoid
the emotional and intellectual clarity to believe in anything definite, ever.
And this is what exicites you..not “Peace”..because you see if you were for Peace you would be protesting in Tehran..or Moscow or Pyongyang..and you would never, ever do that would you? No Timmy..what excites you is finding
“contradiction” in the Adult world, because if you can do that..no one can
ever tell you to do anything, or to expect anything from you. Millions of lives and decades of human misery testify to what life is like in Hamas’s
Lebanon or Mullahs Iran or Saddams Iraq, but thats all too real for you. No no much better to sugar coat the barbarity of the Palestinians…that way
you can play Protest Warrior against a nice safe enemy, Israel. Or of course
fantasize about the USA as a nuclear aggressor no matter how far you have to
fetch it. Now go get your face paints and your protest costume and get ready
for the Big Rally tommorrow, it will be so much fun.
“President Obama is the greatest catastrophe collectively experienced by Jews since the Holocaust.”
As of now, Obama’s definitely a top contender for the title, and America’s Jews voted for him 4 to 1. But that title still belongs to President Shimon Peres, who shared it for a while with his good buddy, Israel’s arch-enemy Yasser Arafat, both officially recognized as joint titleholders, for all the world to see, by their being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize together. Come to think of it though, with Arafat’s death, and another Nobel Peace Prize having since been awarded to Obama, seems the two of them may well be joint titleholders now.
Not much of the free world’s left, but for Israel and America. Jews there, and everywhere, wake up!
I cannot state enough how wrong Obama is. He hates Jews but won’t admit it.Sorry but its shines through the linings.
I cannot find enough words to say how very much I hate someone like Obama.I have not hated anyone since schooldays,BUT I’m afraid I see Obama as the smart alec behind the bullies at school.He wont fight himself because he is toooo precious,but he will edge on the bully(Tehran) to do it for him.He will then say something like “I warned you”. What a smart-a3sed intellectual he is.People that call him a thug,give him too much credit for being tough.HE IS A PANSY.
We should fight for OURSELVES, only!
The inane treatment of Judeo-Christianity as a proxy for Western Civilization should be first to go. Tying the moral foundations of the American Nation with cultural archetypes of prehistoric Biblical Jews, or with those of devout Europeans emulating them is beyond preposterous. The dogmatic authoritarianism inherent in Judeo-Christianity and its ubiquitous tradition of framing Man as a wretched sinful creature fallen from grace since birth, are antithetical to a societal infrastructure built around individual freedom and dignity.
Judeo-Christianity provides no coherent moral justification for why humankind deserves freedom. The Bible presents men and women as fundamentally unequal and incorrigibly flawed, offhandedly condones slavery, and offers absolute monarchy as the sacrosanct form of government prescribed by God.
Read more: http://www.kejda.net/2008/03/17/beyond-conservatism-freedom-in-a-godless-future/#ixzz0qlxbd6zX